=> Atheist Soldier Sues Pentagon over Religious Discrimination <=
Reality_Check�
AC360� Correspondent
Is the United States Military becoming a Christian organization? That's what
one U.S. soldier tells us.
I met Army Specialist Jeremy Hall in Kansas City a few weeks ago. He's based
at Fort Riley, in Junction City, Kansas about an hour away.
At 24, he's a remarkable young man determined to complete one final mission.
That is to win a lawsuit against the federal government.
Specialist Hall is suing the Department of Defense and former Secretary of
Defense Donald Rumsfeld for failing to protect his religious freedom. He
says the military discriminates against non-Christians and his rights under
the First Amendment were denied.
Hall has served two tours in Iraq as a gunner. He's back at Fort Riley now
only because he says his life was threatened after it became public he is an
atheist.
"I don't believe in God, luck, fate, or anything supernatural," Hall told
me.
It wasn't always that way. Hall grew up reading the Bible every night and
saying grace at dinner. Then, after his first tour of duty, he met some
friends who were atheist and decided to read the Bible again. He read the
whole Bible, and had so many unanswered questions, he says, he decided to
embrace atheism.
In the army, he says, that cost him dearly.
Hall says he was denied a promotion because of his beliefs, and felt his
life was in jeopardy. He says the army assigned him a full-time bodyguard
because of threats.
At Thanksgiving, Hall refused to pray with his table and says an officer
told him to go sit somewhere else.
Also, after he was nearly killed when his humvee was attacked, he says a
fellow soldier asked him, "do you believe in Jesus now?"
Hall says he was ostracized because he didn't embrace fundamentalist
Christianity.
We checked and religious discrimination is against military policy.
Bill Carr, the man in charge of military personnel policy at the Pentagon,
told me, "if an atheist chose to follow their convictions, absolutely, that's
acceptable. And that's a point of religious accommodation in department
policy, one may hold whatever faith, or may hold no faith."
Hall doesn't want money from the military. He just wants soldiers to be
guaranteed religious freedom. He plans to leave the army next year, as soon
as he can, and wants to leave it a better place than when he first joined
it, he says.
What do you think? Should military members be allowed to proselytize? Do you
believe the Pentagon when it says this isn't happening?
bob young
NO
Billzz
news:4872CCCF...@netvigator.com...
>NO
I sometimes wonder if the people who post things about the US army have ever
been in the US army.
The man is a 24 yr-old "specialist." What's that? Is he a Sp4? That's
important to know. Because if he served two tours he should be way above
Sp4.
He went out of his way to disrespect people praying? At Thanksgiving? All
he had to do was sit there.
He was denied a promotion because of his beliefs? Nonsense.
I served in the US Army from private to colonel (with Jewish on my dog tag,
and it turned out I wasn't Jewish) so I should know something about
religious discrimination. There isn't any.
I even presided over Thanksgivings, and a unit and battalion commander.
Everyone prayed their own prayer, or they sat silent, until they dove into
the food. No one (these are the rational people) cared what anyone prayed
to - just get to the turkey.
What we usually have is a screw-up, who does something screwy, in the hopes
that he can then blame the people who only want to have nothing to do with
him. He may already be in the process of being boarded-out, so he wants to
deflect attention away from the real reason, making up any story to
rationalize what is happening.
Another stupid story posted to us.military.army from someone who knows
nothing about the us.military.army.
----I just looked and saw "Reality Check" which I had plonked, I thought.
Now I see Bob Young. Hey, Bob! Just plonk this crap, would you?
MarkA
That's exactly what he did. But, he didn't *pretend* to pray.
>
> He was denied a promotion because of his beliefs? Nonsense.
>
Far from it.
> I served in the US Army from private to colonel (with Jewish on my dog tag,
> and it turned out I wasn't Jewish) so I should know something about
> religious discrimination. There isn't any.
>
You know it all, eh?
> I even presided over Thanksgivings, and a unit and battalion commander.
> Everyone prayed their own prayer, or they sat silent, until they dove into
> the food. No one (these are the rational people) cared what anyone prayed
> to - just get to the turkey.
>
> What we usually have is a screw-up, who does something screwy, in the hopes
> that he can then blame the people who only want to have nothing to do with
> him. He may already be in the process of being boarded-out, so he wants to
> deflect attention away from the real reason, making up any story to
> rationalize what is happening.
>
> Another stupid story posted to us.military.army from someone who knows
> nothing about the us.military.army.
>
> ----I just looked and saw "Reality Check" which I had plonked, I thought.
> Now I see Bob Young. Hey, Bob! Just plonk this crap, would you?
Hall tried to organize a meeting of atheists/freethinkers. He got all the
necessary permissions to hold the meeting. The meeting was then crashed
by a Major, who threatened them all with disciplinary action for
attending. Sounds like religious discrimination to me.
If you were in Army more than 8 years ago, things may be a little
different now.
--
MarkA
(This space temporarily unavailable)
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Reality_CheckŠ
"Billzz" <billzz...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:4e279$4872cec1$9440b19b$12...@STARBAND.NET...
Too stupid to figure out a news reader, eh numbnuts?
Billzz
news:pan.2008.07.08....@nowhere.com...
I was in the US army from 1958 to 1985. I enlisted, and was in the barracks
for a year. They found out what my test scores were, sent me to OCS, paid
for my bachelor's and master's degrees, and I commanded two artillery
batteries, and the largest artillery battalion in Europe, for two years.
Korea and Vietnam along the way. So I have personally commanded over a
thousand soldiers, and served with literally, many thousands.
"Free thinkers" in the US Army. That's kind of an oxymoron. I will hold
with my opinion that he was a screwup looking to cover his tracks.
I've served on many boards, and many times an Article 32 Investigating
Officer, and been both trial counsel and defense counsel, and it looks fishy
to me.
But I do not actually care about a passed over Sp4. If he was good he would
have many supporters. I'll say that again, having given waivers to many
overweight, disabled, crashed on the autobahn soldiers - If he had any
support by anyone, they would never let him go. Two tours? They would want
him. He could have come out of the stockade, and if the first sergeant
wanted him, and if the sergeant major said he was okay, then he would be in
the unit.
This is actually too stupid to comment on anymore.
Deadrat
news:4e279$4872cec1$9440b19b$12...@STARBAND.NET:
But people at the Air Force Academy wouldn't be much surprised.
> The man is a 24 yr-old "specialist." What's that? Is he a Sp4?
> That's important to know. Because if he served two tours he should be
> way above Sp4.
>
> He went out of his way to disrespect people praying? At Thanksgiving?
> All he had to do was sit there.
Yeah, fuck him. What does he think we have, a secular government?
And the article doesn't say he disrespected anyone. He just refused to
pray and was kicked out of the group he was eating with.
But your zeal in supporting religiosity is noted, Brother, and will be
reported with favor to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
> He was denied a promotion because of his beliefs? Nonsense.
>
> I served in the US Army from private to colonel (with Jewish on my dog
> tag, and it turned out I wasn't Jewish)
So it just "turned out" that you weren't Jewish, eh?
> so I should know something about religious discrimination.
People looked at your dogtags all the time, I'll bet. Do you "look"
Jewish?
> There isn't any.
Oh, well. Then that settles it.
>
> I even presided over Thanksgivings, and a unit and battalion
> commander. Everyone prayed their own prayer, or they sat silent, until
> they dove into the food. No one (these are the rational people) cared
> what anyone prayed to - just get to the turkey.
>
> What we usually have is a screw-up,
He served two tours in Iraq. That makes him less of a screw-up than the
draft dodger who sent him there.
> who does something screwy, in the
> hopes that he can then blame the people who only want to have nothing
> to do with him. He may already be in the process of being
> boarded-out, so he wants to deflect attention away from the real
> reason, making up any story to rationalize what is happening.
And you know this how?
<snip/>
Reality_CheckŠ
LOL!
Back when "faggots" and "homos" were deemed "unfit" to serve.
Your archaic bigotry toward Atheists is now clarified.
> I enlisted, and was in the barracks for a year. They found out what my
> test scores were, sent me to OCS, paid for my bachelor's and master's
> degrees, and I commanded two artillery batteries, and the largest
> artillery battalion in Europe, for two years. Korea and Vietnam along the
> way. So I have personally commanded over a thousand soldiers, and served
> with literally, many thousands.
And managed to lose 2 (two) major conflicts against far smaller, weaker and
poorer third-world countries. ROTFLMAO!
> "Free thinkers" in the US Army. That's kind of an oxymoron. I will hold
> with my opinion that he was a screwup looking to cover his tracks.
Another mil-spec irony meter EXPLODES!
> I've served on many boards, and many times an Article 32 Investigating
> Officer, and been both trial counsel and defense counsel, and it looks
> fishy to me.
Your bigotry and prejudice is showing again, jackass.
>
> But I do not actually care about a passed over Sp4. If he was good he
> would have many supporters.
Go fuck yourself you bigoted asswipe.
> I'll say that again, having given waivers to many overweight, disabled,
> crashed on the autobahn soldiers - If he had any support by anyone, they
> would never let him go.
Go fuck yourself again, you repugnant maggot.
> Two tours? They would want him. He could have come out of the stockade,
> and if the first sergeant wanted him, and if the sergeant major said he
> was okay, then he would be in the unit.
>
> This is actually too stupid to comment on anymore.
Fuck you and fuck what you stand for.
MarkA
Though you certainly have a solid background in the Armed Forces, there is
clear evidence that under our current Fuckwit-in-Chief, the military has
been infiltrated at many levels by evangelical Xtians. There is a web
site, http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org, founded by Mikey Weinstein,
which documents many cases of evangelizing by the military. Mr Hall is
not alone.
--
MarkA
Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
About eight o'clock
Fr...@pastor.it
> >
> > He went out of his way to disrespect people praying? At Thanksgiving? All
> > he had to do was sit there.
> That's exactly what he did. But, he didn't *pretend* to pray.
Those Atheists have nothing but disrespect!
> Hall tried to organize a meeting of atheists/freethinkers. He got all the
> necessary permissions to hold the meeting. The meeting was then crashed
> by a Major, who threatened them all with disciplinary action for
> attending. Sounds like religious discrimination to me.
Nop Good Soldier wants to share a foxhole with and Atheist who is 2
seconds away from being smitten by our All-Merciful God! That is
just NUTS!
Next thing you know, these Ateists will want the Army to accept Muslims!
Leo Marx
No and no.
Much evidence of proselytizing has been presented.
Religion is a powerful tool of the military and political leadership.
There are only two valid reasons for going to war, god and country.
JAM
Cary Kittrell
Um, don't exactly know how to break this to you...
-- cary
Lord Vetinari
news:pan.2008.07.08....@nowhere.com...
> On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:33:56 -0700, Billzz wrote:
>> But I do not actually care about a passed over Sp4. If he was good he
>> would
>> have many supporters. I'll say that again, having given waivers to many
>> overweight, disabled, crashed on the autobahn soldiers - If he had any
>> support by anyone, they would never let him go. Two tours? They would
>> want
>> him. He could have come out of the stockade, and if the first sergeant
>> wanted him, and if the sergeant major said he was okay, then he would be
>> in
>> the unit.
>>
>> This is actually too stupid to comment on anymore.
>
> Though you certainly have a solid background in the Armed Forces, there is
> clear evidence that under our current Fuckwit-in-Chief, the military has
> been infiltrated at many levels by evangelical Xtians. There is a web
> site, http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org, founded by Mikey Weinstein,
> which documents many cases of evangelizing by the military. Mr Hall is
> not alone.
Xians have been in the driver's seat in the U.S. military for as long as
we've _had_ a military. While things may have actually gotten worse during
dumbya's tenure, it certainly isn't a new trend.
While I was in the Navy, stationed aboard the U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt
CVN-71, we were often expected to pray along with all of the xians. Once, I
even had some jackas, who was standing as OOD, demand that I remove a pin
that I'd made from the cassette cover for Bear's Choice
http://tinyurl.com/6kj7rj before he'd allow me to go ashore...the stupid
fucking xian thought that it was a pentagram!! Like that would've made his
behavior any more acceptable to Navy policy. Of course, if I'd not been in
a hurry to get home, I'd have taken the time to bring this to the attention
of the appropriate people...I wish I'd gone ahead and taken the time, now.
"See here how everything lead up to this day,
and it's just like any other day that's ever been.
Sun going up and then the sun going down.
Come around, come around"
Lord Vetinari
> In alt.religion.christian MarkA <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > He went out of his way to disrespect people praying? At Thanksgiving?
>> > All
>> > he had to do was sit there.
>
>> That's exactly what he did. But, he didn't *pretend* to pray.
>
> Those Atheists have nothing but disrespect!
...for you.
>> Hall tried to organize a meeting of atheists/freethinkers. He got all
>> the
>> necessary permissions to hold the meeting. The meeting was then crashed
>> by a Major, who threatened them all with disciplinary action for
>> attending. Sounds like religious discrimination to me.
>
> Nop Good Soldier wants to share a foxhole with and Atheist who is 2
> seconds away from being smitten by our All-Merciful God! That is
> just NUTS!
Frankly, you're more nuts than anyone you can name.
> Next thing you know, these Ateists will want the Army to accept Muslims!
*snicker* Are you under the impression that Muslims are unacceptable to the
army? You're kinda cute, when you rave like this.
Lord Vetinari
[snip]
> I served in the US Army from private to colonel (with Jewish on my dog
> tag, and it turned out I wasn't Jewish) so I should know something about
> religious discrimination. There isn't any.
...and you didn't get that fixed in all of that time? You're a lying sack
of shit. Even if your patently false statement about your dogtags were
true, it still doesn't support your claim to having been religiously
persecuted. You obviously behaved like the xian fuck you are, and wouldn't
have had much call to show off your dogtags to anyone, anyway.
My Navy dogtags say "atheist", as I was proud to carry that evidence of my
lack of belief on my person. You, on the other hand, are a fucking coward.
Most atheists that I met in the Navy were too afraid to have that on their
dogtags, for the obvious reason that they didn't want to have to deal with
xian bigotry. We also had at least one Satanist aboard TR, too...he was a
bit dopey, but a nice guy.
> I even presided over Thanksgivings, and a unit and battalion commander.
> Everyone prayed their own prayer, or they sat silent, until they dove into
> the food. No one (these are the rational people) cared what anyone prayed
> to - just get to the turkey.
More lies.
> What we usually have is a screw-up, who does something screwy, in the
> hopes that he can then blame the people who only want to have nothing to
> do with him. He may already be in the process of being boarded-out, so he
> wants to deflect attention away from the real reason, making up any story
> to rationalize what is happening.
Typical xian lack of empathy. You'd never admit that an atheist was right,
and all for your fucked up religion.
> Another stupid story posted to us.military.army from someone who knows
> nothing about the us.military.army.
Right. The same U.S. Army that uses comic books for training manuals,
because so many groundpounders are illiterate. When I decided to enlist, I
checked out every branch first, to determine which had the highest
percentage of intelligent, educated personnel. The Army was at the bottom
of the list, sucker, and the Navy was at the top. Not that the Navy has any
shortage of ignorant, illiterate morons.
Billzz
"Lord Vetinari" <veti...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:kxMck.3926$cn7....@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com...
-stuff snipped-
> Right. The same U.S. Army that uses comic books for training manuals,
> because so many groundpounders are illiterate. When I decided to enlist,
> I checked out every branch first, to determine which had the highest
> percentage of intelligent, educated personnel. The Army was at the bottom
> of the list, sucker, and the Navy was at the top. Not that the Navy has
> any shortage of ignorant, illiterate morons.
Well, you certainly talk like you were in the navy. I was a student at
Boston University when my parents died and the relatives thought that my
brother and I should enlist. So I checked out the services and found out
that the greatest opportunity was in the army because, while they are all
paid the same, there are many more vacancies in the combat arms in the army.
This was the draft era and so both the USAF and navy were stacked with
volunteers escaping the draft. So I enlisted in the army, maxed most of
their tests, and they sent me to artillery officer candidate school, with
the promise that, if I stayed in, they would pay for my college degree
(which they did, and also for my master's degree.) I retired (early) as a
colonel, and with my operations research/systems analysis background became
a technical staff member at Rockwell, then a visiting researcher at their
science center, and retired as programs manager for network programs.
If I had joined the navy I would have been a cook, with no training or
officer career path opportunity.
Reality_CheckŠ
"MarkA" <to...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
ROTFLMAO!
Anyone can play General Patton on Usenet.
> there is
> clear evidence that under our current Fuckwit-in-Chief,
The cowardly Draft Dodger in Chief who sent 4000+ U$ suckers
to their meaningless deaths for his deceptions and lie?
>the military has
> been infiltrated at many levels by evangelical Xtians. There is a web
> site, http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org, founded by Mikey Weinstein,
> which documents many cases of evangelizing by the military. Mr Hall is
> not alone.
You don't expect a lying military pig to admit that, do you?
Reality_CheckŠ
"Deadrat" <a...@b.com> wrote in message
news:BiMck.11650$cW3....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
> ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote in
> news:g501qs$7gi$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu:
That'd be the Sarcasm Detector, numbnuts.
David L. Martel
I was also struck by the strange lack of achievement in this specialist.
He claims that he was passed over due to his lack of religion.
This whole argument seems quite silly to me since the "facts" come from a
source who is relying on an interview with Spec. Hall (and his lawyer?).
That's a pretty one-sided collection of factoids. Even CNN asks, "Was he
treated differently". What Mr. Reality Check posts does not ask this
question.
Dave M.
Reality_CheckŠ
"David L. Martel" <mart...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:TKidnY8SLYj6Ou7V...@earthlink.com...
> Billzz,
>
> I was also struck by the strange lack of achievement in this specialist.
> He claims that he was passed over due to his lack of religion.
> This whole argument seems quite silly to me since the "facts" come from
> a source who is relying on an interview with Spec. Hall (and his lawyer?).
Find those massive stockpiles of militarized WMD in Iraq yet, eh numbnuts?
> That's a pretty one-sided collection of factoids.
Ibid.
> Even CNN asks, "Was he treated differently". What Mr. Reality Check posts
> does not ask this question.
So you deny the only "facts" in evidence in exhange for your own unsupported
prejudice, eh asswipe?
Reality_CheckŠ
> Please adjust your irony meter.
It's a Sarcasm Detector, numbnuts.
Please adjust your comprehension of basic English.
Billzz
news:TKidnY8SLYj6Ou7V...@earthlink.com...
And no one, in any of the services, is stuck in one position. They have
standardized tours, so they will be moved every few years, and there are
opportunities for re-assignment. Especially if there is a charge of
discrimination, then the individual will - immediately - be moved to another
unit and the claim investigated. The usual claim is "racism," as opposed
to "atheism," but the same procedure occurs. I said that it looked fishy,
but that's only my opinion, but it's a learned opinion. The defense will
present his efficiency reports, and the chain-of-command will testify as to
his conduct, and that should settle that. Some old grizzled chief will wax
poetic about the young lad, and the jury will find out about his true
character. But I think that's about all from me, on this subject.
Lord Vetinari
>
> "Lord Vetinari" <veti...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
> news:kxMck.3926$cn7....@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> -stuff snipped-
>
>> Right. The same U.S. Army that uses comic books for training manuals,
>> because so many groundpounders are illiterate. When I decided to enlist,
>> I checked out every branch first, to determine which had the highest
>> percentage of intelligent, educated personnel. The Army was at the
>> bottom of the list, sucker, and the Navy was at the top. Not that the
>> Navy has any shortage of ignorant, illiterate morons.
>
> Well, you certainly talk like you were in the navy.
I drink, cuss, and spend money like a sailor, too. But then, I did those
before enlisting, anyway.
> I was a student at Boston University when my parents died and the
> relatives thought that my brother and I should enlist. So I checked out
> the services and found out that the greatest opportunity was in the army
> because, while they are all paid the same, there are many more vacancies
> in the combat arms in the army.
Imagine that, the Army running low on combat soldiers. Heh.
> This was the draft era and so both the USAF and navy were stacked with
> volunteers escaping the draft.
Like one of my former brother-in-laws. He got his notice for the Army, so
he ran down to the Navy recruiter, and signed up. He, being the space cadet
he's always been, was given an honorable discharge after a short time, due
to his spacing out so much...he nearly had his head taken off by an
aircraft's prop. Luckier than one of my shipmates.
> So I enlisted in the army, maxed most of their tests, and they sent me to
> artillery officer candidate school, with the promise that, if I stayed in,
> they would pay for my college degree (which they did, and also for my
> master's degree.) I retired (early) as a colonel, and with my operations
> research/systems analysis background became a technical staff member at
> Rockwell, then a visiting researcher at their science center, and retired
> as programs manager for network programs.
You came out far better than the majority did.
> If I had joined the navy I would have been a cook, with no training or
> officer career path opportunity.
What, you're a Filipino? Mess Specialist isn't the only rating allowed for
Filipinos, you know.
Deadrat
@mid.individual.net:
I use the IRNE-4000. It's both Mil-spec and Energy-Star rated, the gain
has full range of 48 orders of magnitude (from yocto to yotta), and has
both a continuous thread mode and burst mode for single posts. I have
the model 60A, which has settings for irony, sarcasm, mockery, and
hyperbole. The 60A has a tendency to overheat on talk.origins, and it
has blown a fuse twice in misc.legal.
I also use the model 40A in series upstream from the 60A, but misc.legal
fries those all the time. It has better response time than the 60A,
which has a noticeable lag on the higher scales.
Lord Vetinari
news:TKidnY8SLYj6Ou7V...@earthlink.com...
Thanks for your vacuous response.
*NARF* People get passed over for many illegitimate reasons. If you are
unaware of this, then you obviously haven't served in the armed forces...for
ANY nation. Evaluations rarely have any effect, other than as a way to make
favoritism easy. IOW, brown-nosers tend to have very good reviews, those
who have any conflict at all with their immediate "superiors", get neutral
reviews, if they're lucky.
Reality_CheckŠ
> "Reality_CheckŠ" <Rea...@Check.it> wrote in news:6dho7eF2m885U1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
> You must be using the cheap detectors that
> can handle only sarcasm. I like the IRNE-4000, which handles both.
I see your problem now, an inability to detect sardonicism.
>
>> Please adjust your comprehension of basic English.
>
> Did you hear the beep?
Cary Kittrell
OK, now THAT was hilarious.
-- cary
David L. Martel
> Find those massive stockpiles of militarized WMD in Iraq yet, eh numbnuts?
I don't blame you for trying to shift the topic but it's not WMDs. Let's
get back to Spec. Hall and his suit. Why do you believe this CNN interview?
> So you deny the only "facts" in evidence in exhange for your own
> unsupported prejudice, eh asswipe?
What "facts" are in evidence? This is an interview by the folks at CNN,
it may have some facts in it., and it may have some BS in it.
Dave M.
Moishe Oysher
<veti...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>When I decided to enlist, I
>checked out every branch first, to determine which had the highest
>percentage of intelligent, educated personnel.
So you joined the Navy and promptly lowered the percentage by 30 points.
Nice.
Reality_CheckŠ
> Reality,
>
>
>> Find those massive stockpiles of militarized WMD in Iraq yet, eh
>> numbnuts?
>
>
> I don't blame you for trying to shift the topic but it's not WMDs. Let's
> get back to Spec. Hall and his suit. Why do you believe this CNN
> interview?
Do you have any actual evidence, any at all, that contradicts the facts
presented in Spec. Hall's case?
<cue crickets chirping>
>
>
>> So you deny the only "facts" in evidence in exhange for your own
>> unsupported prejudice, eh asswipe?
>
> What "facts" are in evidence? This is an interview by the folks at CNN,
> it may have some facts in it., and it may have some BS in it.
Do you have any direct evidence that there is BS in this particular
interview,
you prejudicial bigot?
>
> Dave M.
>
Reality_CheckŠ
"raven1" <quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:h0p7741fjlbephmgi...@4ax.com...
> conventions, unless you like wearing a button that says "If I'm not a
> newbie, I'm the most clueless veteran in years". An "Irony Meter" (or
> "Irony-o-meter / Irony-ometer") is a time-honored imaginary Usenet
> device. A "Sarcasm Detector" just doesn't have the same cachet.
Looks like your Clue Detector is broken ... chump.
Reality_CheckŠ
>
> <plonk>
The sound of your brain hitting the toilet water ...
David L. Martel
> Do you have any actual evidence, any at all, that contradicts the facts
> presented in Spec. Hall's case?
>
> <cue crickets chirping>
Nope, none. I'm not posting with ther suggestion that the Army has
treated this guy badly, you are. You've made the charges so let's see the
proof.
Any actual evidence, any at all.
You can toss around insults but the facts of this thread show who is the
prejudicial bigot. You saw a news story. Without further ado you believed
every word.
I'm done here. You clearly have nothing in the way of fact or thought to
contribute, you just believe unquestioningly. Kind of ironic in a thread
about atheism.
Dave M.
Reality_CheckŠ
> Reality,
>
>
>> Do you have any actual evidence, any at all, that contradicts the facts
>> presented in Spec. Hall's case?
>>
>> <cue crickets chirping>
>
> Nope, none.
Got it.
Lord Vetinari
news:rnu774l2g7scs6pjh...@4ax.com...
Sorry Mushy, it's the other way around. They wanted me because of my high
ASVAB score, and when I got out, they wanted me back (RE-R1 reenlistment
code).
I'm sorry that no one wants you.
> Nice.
You? You'd be funny, if you weren't so pathetic.
Lord Vetinari
news:6dir0rF...@mid.individual.net...>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:27:25 -0600, "Reality_Check©" <Rea...@Check.it>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"raven1" <quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote in message
>>>news:h0p7741fjlbephmgi...@4ax.com...
You should learn to accept correction, you know. If you were right, you'd
have been defended.
Brian E. Clark
Reality_Check© said...
> Do you believe the Pentagon when it says this isn't happening?
Who is foolish enough to believe the Pentagon?
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
Reality_CheckŠ
"Lord Vetinari" <veti...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:GS7dk.12261$89....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
Your false dichotomy proves you to be a moron.
Moishe Oysher
<veti...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>"Moishe Oysher" <moi...@potsmail.com> wrote in message
>news:rnu774l2g7scs6pjh...@4ax.com...
>> In <kxMck.3926$cn7....@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>, "Lord Vetinari"
>> <veti...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>>When I decided to enlist, I
>>>checked out every branch first, to determine which had the highest
>>>percentage of intelligent, educated personnel.
>>
>> So you joined the Navy and promptly lowered the percentage by 30 points.
>
>Sorry Mushy, it's the other way around. They wanted me because of my high
>ASVAB score, and when I got out, they wanted me back (RE-R1 reenlistment
>code).
>
>I'm sorry that no one wants you.
Must be murder getting through doorways with that massive ego you drag
around with you.
>> Nice.
>
>You? You'd be funny, if you weren't so pathetic.
Oh look. A PKB. And so quickly.
Sad little man. Go find a mirror, gaze into it lovingly, and keep telling
yourself how wonderful and superior you are.
tankfixer
veti...@ameritech.net says...
> The same U.S. Army that uses comic books for training manuals,
> because so many groundpounders are illiterate.
No, they don't.
--
"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"
Lord Calvert
> In article <kxMck.3926$cn7.2...@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> vetin...@ameritech.net says...
>
> > The same U.S. Army that uses comic books for training manuals,
> > because so many groundpounders are illiterate.
>
> No, they don't.
Oh, c'mon. You've never seen issues of PS Magazine, the Preventative
Maintenance Monthly wandering around the motor pool, armory and the
barracks? When I was in between '81 and '90 the damn things were all
over the place and I was in intel where the equipment that we used was
never even covered. The magazine has been around since 1952 and is
still published by the Army.
http://dig.library.vcu.edu/cdm4/index_psm.php?CISOROOT=%2Fpsm
https://www.logsa.army.mil/psmag/pshome.cfm
Really, have you even been in the service? It is virtually impossible
that you could have possibly been in the US Army over the last half
century without ever having seen at least one issue.
Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1
EAC Department of Cruel and Unusual Choreography
Deadrat
news:MPG.22e29d26b...@nntp.earthlink.net:
> In article <kxMck.3926$cn7....@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> veti...@ameritech.net says...
>
>> The same U.S. Army that uses comic books for training manuals,
>> because so many groundpounders are illiterate.
>
> No, they don't.
Quite right. The US military is an all-volunteer force highly dependent on
technology. Requirements for entrance precluded illiterates.
At least until W broke the thing.
tankfixer
@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Calver...@msn.com says...
> On Jul 12, 2:51 pm, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote:
> > In article <kxMck.3926$cn7.2...@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> > vetin...@ameritech.net says...
> >
> > > The same U.S. Army that uses comic books for training manuals,
> > > because so many groundpounders are illiterate.
> >
> > No, they don't.
>
> Oh, c'mon. You've never seen issues of PS Magazine, the Preventative
> Maintenance Monthly wandering around the motor pool, armory and the
> barracks? When I was in between '81 and '90 the damn things were all
> over the place and I was in intel where the equipment that we used was
> never even covered. The magazine has been around since 1952 and is
> still published by the Army.
Those are hardly a training manual now are they. Nothing more than a
gimicky way to get updates to the fireld between changes in the real
TMs.
And yes I've seen them, worked for a CW3 who had them going back to the
mid 1960's.
>
> http://dig.library.vcu.edu/cdm4/index_psm.php?CISOROOT=%2Fpsm
> https://www.logsa.army.mil/psmag/pshome.cfm
>
> Really, have you even been in the service? It is virtually impossible
> that you could have possibly been in the US Army over the last half
> century without ever having seen at least one issue.
--