Human Meddling
�R.L.Measures
sect of Christianity teaches two doctrines which the rabbi who called
himself the Son of man (Jesus of Nazareth) spoke against. These are: 1.
The heavenly Father forgives sin by way of sacrifice. and 2. We need to
pray through church approved / beasified human beings to be heard by the
heavenly Father.
Other religions have also been meddled by humans. Typically meddling
begins in c. 3-centuries after a major religion is founded.
One of the claims of Islam is that it can not ever be meddled by human
beings, however, there are some differences between the Qur'an and what
Muslims are taught by Islamic holy men. Examples:
Muhammad says women should dress modestly but Muhammad says nothing about
them wearing tents.
Muhammad says we should not be drunk when praying but he says noting about
totally abstaining from wine. And yet Islamic holy men teach absolutely
not to drink any wine.
Regarding cutting women's private parts Muhammad says to cut only a
little. Since some women have a problem with the clitoral prepuce
adhering to the glans clitoridis, they can benefit from having the prepuce
excised to expose the glans clitoris for the purpose that Allah, in his
infinite wisdom, intended. [Actress Marilyn Monroe ( Norma Jeane
Mortenson / Baker) had this procedure done.] However, there are Muslim "
holy men" who say that the clitoris and its prepuce must be excised
because Muhammad said so. Do Muslim holy men know better than Allah?
It is my observation that after about 300-years all religions becomes
useless as the tits on a boar hog due to human meddling. If we have any
luck, a new divinely inspired teacher will be appear and the process will
repeat itself.
"religion must be the cause of unity, harmony and agreement among mankind.
If it be the cause of discord and hostility, if it leads to separation and
creates conflict, the absence of religion would be preferable in the
world." --`Abdu'l-Baha
---"Unbelievers in God are those who declare: God is the Messiah, the son
of Mary."
--- Qur�an 5:15
cheers
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
duke
>Anyone who studies the history of Christianity realizes that the largest
>sect of Christianity teaches two doctrines which the rabbi who called
>himself the Son of man (Jesus of Nazareth) spoke against. These are:
>1.The heavenly Father forgives sin by way of sacrifice.
That might be Jews.
>2. We need to pray through church approved / beasified human beings to be heard by the heavenly Father.
No, that's wrong too.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
�R.L.Measures
<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:00:42 -0800, r...@somis.org (�R.L.Measures) wrote:
>
> >Anyone who studies the history of Christianity realizes that the largest
> >sect of Christianity teaches two doctrines which the rabbi who called
> >himself the Son of man (Jesus of Nazareth) spoke against. These are:
>
> >1.The heavenly Father forgives sin by way of sacrifice.
>
> That might be Jews.
� the core doctrine of the RCC is presently ritual cannibalistic
sacrifice (a.k.a. Mass). Judaism gave up on sacrifice when the era of
Rabbinical Judaism started in the 1st Century..
>
> >2. We need to pray through church approved / beasified human beings to
be heard by the heavenly Father.
>
> No, that's wrong too.
>
� who does he think he's fooling?
duke
>In article <b0t6k55o9e11qbk3l...@4ax.com>, duke
><duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:00:42 -0800, r...@somis.org (�R.L.Measures) wrote:
>>
>> >Anyone who studies the history of Christianity realizes that the largest
>> >sect of Christianity teaches two doctrines which the rabbi who called
>> >himself the Son of man (Jesus of Nazareth) spoke against. These are:
>>
>> >1.The heavenly Father forgives sin by way of sacrifice.
>>
>> That might be Jews.
>
>� the core doctrine of the RCC is presently ritual cannibalistic
>sacrifice (a.k.a. Mass). Judaism gave up on sacrifice when the era of
>Rabbinical Judaism started in the 1st Century..
The core doctrine of the Holy Eucharist is that we participate with Christ in
his one and only trip to the cross.
>> >2. We need to pray through church approved / beasified human beings to
>be heard by the heavenly Father.
>> No, that's wrong too.
>� who does he think he's fooling?
Yeah, who do you think you're fooling?
�R.L.Measures
<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:09:56 -0800, r...@somis.org (�ｿｽR.L.Measures) wrote:
>
> >In article <b0t6k55o9e11qbk3l...@4ax.com>, duke
> ><duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:00:42 -0800, r...@somis.org (�ｿｽR.L.Measures) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Anyone who studies the history of Christianity realizes that the largest
> >> >sect of Christianity teaches two doctrines which the rabbi who called
> >> >himself the Son of man (Jesus of Nazareth) spoke against. These are:
> >>
> >> >1.The heavenly Father forgives sin by way of sacrifice.
> >>
> >> That might be Jews.
> >
> >�ｿｽ the core doctrine of the RCC is presently ritual cannibalistic
> >sacrifice (a.k.a. Mass). Judaism gave up on sacrifice when the era of
> >Rabbinical Judaism started in the 1st Century..
>
> The core doctrine of the Holy Eucharist is that we participate with Christ in
> his one and only trip to the cross.
�ｿｽ The crucifix was invented by the Orthodox church in the 9th century.
the Roman church initially rejected the crucifix because its hierarchy
decided that it was like crucifying Christ again and again. However, when
it was discovered that crucifixes were selling like hotcakes, Rome decided
to go with the flow and began producing them in masse.
>
> >> >2. We need to pray through church approved / beasified human beings to
> >be heard by the heavenly Father.
> >> No, that's wrong too.
> >�ｿｽ who does he think he's fooling?
>
> Yeah, who do you think you're fooling?
>
�ｿｽ Very few people are not aware that TBRCs are taught to pray through
the BVM or some other Catholic Saint. Shia Islam works in much the same
way in that both attempt to isolate true believers from their creator.
Naturally, this pisses off Sunni Muslims and those goddamn Prot bastards
Duke.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast
shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which
seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
--- Mathew, 6:6
Dennis
> Anyone who studies the history of Christianity realizes that the largest
> sect of Christianity teaches two doctrines which the rabbi who called
> himself the Son of man (Jesus of Nazareth) spoke against. These are: 1.
> The heavenly Father forgives sin by way of sacrifice.
The earliest witness to Jesus chronologically is Paul writing to the
Corinthians about A.D. 55
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epistle_to_the_Corinthians]. In this
he reminds the new Christians what he himself recieved some time
earlier:
"For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that
the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and
when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my
body *which is for you*. Do this in remembrance of me." In the
same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the
new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in
remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink
the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes."
(1Cor 11:23-26 RSV) [emphasis added]
This is the language of sacrifice cited less than twenty-five years
after Jesus' death and clearly relying on an earlier teaching. Matthew,
another First Century witness, writes a similar account thirty or fewer
years later
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_matthew#Date_of_gospel]:
"Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and
broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat;
this is my body." And he took a cup, and when he had given
thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you; for
this is my blood of the covenant, *which is poured out for many
for the forgiveness of sins*."
(Matt 26:26-28 RSV) [emphasis added]
Mark is believed by many scholars to have been written before Matthew
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_mark#Date] and says essentially
the same thing:
"And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke
it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take; this is my body." And
he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them,
and they all drank of it. And he said to them, "This is my blood
of the covenant, *which is poured out for many*."
(Mark 14:22-24 RSV) [emphasis added]
Luke is the other canonical First Century witness
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_luke#Date]:
"And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and
gave it to them, saying, "This is my body which is given for
you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after
supper, saying, "This cup *which is poured out for you* is the
new covenant in my blood."
(Luke 22:19-20 RSV) [emphasis added]
The Didache is quite possibly from the First Century as well
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache#Date_of_composition]. I have
already cited what it says elsewhere:
"Assemble on the Lord's day, and break bread and offer the
Eucharist; but first make confession of your faults, so that
your sacrifice may be a pure one. Anyone who has a difference
with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been
reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice
[Matt. 5:23-24]. For this is the offering of which the Lord has
said, 'Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is
undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is
the wonder of nations' [Mal. 1:11, 14]" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).
http://www.catholic.com/library/Sacrifice_of_the_Mass.asp
There are no earlier or superior witnesses to Jesus' last meal and death
and what they meant to the earliest Christians and what they asserted
these meant to him.
This earliest teaching also explains the central role of The Eucharistic
Sacrifice in the early liturgy of these Christians. You can re-read the
other citations of the pre-Constantinian Christians to this effect in
our other thread.
> [snip]
>
> Other religions have also been meddled by humans. Typically meddling
> begins in c. 3-centuries after a major religion is founded.
> [snip]
This is a little vaguer than the "A.D. 394" date you gave for the
institution of the Mass. Are you backing away from that date now?
--
Dennis dag2...@gmail.com
Thinking with the Church requires thinking. R. Nuehaus
duke
>In article <tm39k5p1073gfr35l...@4ax.com>, duke
><duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:09:56 -0800, r...@somis.org (�R.L.Measures) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <b0t6k55o9e11qbk3l...@4ax.com>, duke
>> ><duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:00:42 -0800, r...@somis.org (�R.L.Measures) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Anyone who studies the history of Christianity realizes that the largest
>> >> >sect of Christianity teaches two doctrines which the rabbi who called
>> >> >himself the Son of man (Jesus of Nazareth) spoke against. These are:
>> >>
>> >> >1.The heavenly Father forgives sin by way of sacrifice.
>> >>
>> >> That might be Jews.
>> >
>> >� the core doctrine of the RCC is presently ritual cannibalistic
>> >sacrifice (a.k.a. Mass). Judaism gave up on sacrifice when the era of
>> >Rabbinical Judaism started in the 1st Century..
>> The core doctrine of the Holy Eucharist is that we participate with Christ in
>> his one and only trip to the cross.
>� The crucifix was invented by the Orthodox church in the 9th century.
>the Roman church initially rejected the crucifix because its hierarchy
>decided that it was like crucifying Christ again and again. However, when
>it was discovered that crucifixes were selling like hotcakes, Rome decided
>to go with the flow and began producing them in masse.
It can't be like crucifying Christ multiple times. He died once and for all,
and it was his death on the cross that is his saving action.
>> >> >2. We need to pray through church approved / beasified human beings to
>> >be heard by the heavenly Father.
>> >> No, that's wrong too.
>> >� who does he think he's fooling?
>> Yeah, who do you think you're fooling?
>� Very few people are not aware that TBRCs are taught to pray through
>the BVM or some other Catholic Saint.
Very few non-Catholics understand that we ask them to pray alongside us to God,
not thru them to God.
You might try reading the Hail Mary for more enlightenment.
�R.L.Measures
<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
� Profitss trump all else,
>
> >> >> >2. We need to pray through church approved / beasified human beings to
> >> >be heard by the heavenly Father.
> >> >> No, that's wrong too.
>
> >> >� who does he think he's fooling?
> >> Yeah, who do you think you're fooling?
>
> >� Very few people are not aware that TBRCs are taught to pray through
> >the BVM or some other Catholic Saint.
>
> Very few non-Catholics understand that we ask them to pray alongside us
to God,
> not thru them to God.
� So you use cue cards so that the BVM can pray along with you Duke?
>
> You might try reading the Hail Mary for more enlightenment.
>
� I know it. from ROM.
duke
>> >� Very few people are not aware that TBRCs are taught to pray through
>> >the BVM or some other Catholic Saint.
>>
>> Very few non-Catholics understand that we ask them to pray alongside us
>to God,
>> not thru them to God.
>� So you use cue cards so that the BVM can pray along with you Duke?
??? To pray is to ask. What's a cue card for?
>> You might try reading the Hail Mary for more enlightenment.
>� I know it. from ROM.
Then you know, from your ROM, that we ask the BVM to pray for us sinners, now
and at the hour of our death.
�R.L.Measures
<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:36:00 -0800, r...@somis.org (�R.L.Measures) wrote:
>
> >> >� Very few people are not aware that TBRCs are taught to pray through
> >> >the BVM or some other Catholic Saint.
> >>
> >> Very few non-Catholics understand that we ask them to pray alongside us
> >to God,
> >> not thru them to God.
>
> >� So you use cue cards so that the BVM can pray along with you Duke?
>
> ??? To pray is to ask. What's a cue card for?
� So she pray the same prayer along with you.
>
> >> You might try reading the Hail Mary for more enlightenment.
> >� I know it. from ROM.
>
> Then you know, from your ROM, that we ask the BVM to pray for us sinners, now
> and at the hour of our death.
>
� Surely but she's got to be praying the same prayer you are or it's
going to sound like jabberwocky.