Church of England beliefs
Antonio
Does anybody know where I can find the beliefs and doctrines of the Anglican
Church (Church of England)?
Thanks,
antonio
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
Antonio <none> wrote in message
> Hello fellow faithful Catholics,
>Does anybody know where I can find the beliefs and doctrines of the
>Anglican Church (Church of England)?
Definition of the Anglican Church:
From The Catholic Encyclopedia Online
See "http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/01498a.htm"
and Anglican Orders under:
"http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/01491a.htm"
7-99
Jim Carew sfo
FTT
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW <OTH...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:7q3r6l$e3s$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...
> Of course it's always easier to have reference to your
> own "official" definition of Anglicanism or anything else by pointing
> to such universal oracles as the "unbiased"
> Catholic Encyclopedia.
> Why not ask the other person what they believe in.
> This attitude of yours Jim Carew sfo is no different
> from the mindset exhibited by the fundy "sola scriptura"
> prots who post here.
> Funny isn't it how the extremes meet.
> How one person's fault is anothers virtue
> FTT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Mitch
with:
>Hello fellow faithful Catholics,
>
>Does anybody know where I can find the beliefs and doctrines of the Anglican
>Church (Church of England)?
Why not try their official web site
http://www.church-of-england.org
--
Mitch
Antonio
Mitch <{mb.news.bounce}@bromage.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
<37cc7923...@bromage.demon.co.uk>...
Bill Nourse
>
> ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW <OTH...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:7q3r6l$e3s$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...
> > JMJ
> > Antonio <none> wrote in message
> >
> >
> > >Does anybody know where I can find the beliefs and doctrines of the
> > >Anglican Church (Church of England)?
> >
> >
> > From The Catholic Encyclopedia Online
> >
> > See "http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/01498a.htm"
> >
> > and Anglican Orders under:
> >
> > "http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/01491a.htm"
> >
> > 7-99
> >
> >
> > Jim Carew sfo
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
> > Of course it's always easier to have reference to your
> > own "official" definition of Anglicanism or anything else by pointing
> > to such universal oracles as the "unbiased"
> > Catholic Encyclopedia.
Strangely enough, my thoughts exactly. I'm sure there are Anglican
websites that would give a perspective from "inside."
Just out of curiosity, though -- did you look at the Catholic
Encyclopedia articles, and do you have any comments? Bear in mind it's
the 1913 edition, I believe.
P.S. -- how come your posts always come up as if you're quiting someone
else? Those little ">" symbols in front of every line --
--
Charles W. ("Bill") Nourse, Ed.D., CPP
Memphis, Tennessee USA
http://personal.mem.bellsouth.net/~nourse
"I always knew that I would look back on my tears and laugh, but I never
thought I would look back on my laughter and cry."
-- Youssef Ali (AKA Cat Stevens)
Gilgames
<I did. They don't state what their doctrines are. Antonio
Basicaly, their theology is the same as the Catholic theology, including the
sacraments and the Holy Mass, except for the doctrine about the papacy, and
naturaly the development after the reformation. Their teaching about moral
questions (explained in details at the above home-page) is less rigorous than
the catholic teaching.
les
d...@dandrake.com
(Mitch) wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:05:22 -0500, "Antonio" <none> enlightened us all
> with:
>
> >Hello fellow faithful Catholics,
[apologies for butting when I'm not one]
> >
> >Does anybody know where I can find the beliefs and doctrines of the Anglican
> >Church (Church of England)?
>
> Why not try their official web site
>
> http://www.church-of-england.org
or, unofficially,
at which it's easy to find the Creeds, the 39 Articles, and so on.
Mitch
with:
[ Re-arranged quotes so that it makes sense]
>Mitch <{mb.news.bounce}@bromage.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>Why not try their official web site
>>
>>http://www.church-of-england.org
>I did. They don't state what their doctrines are.
If you are looking for the equivalent of the Catholic Catechism, then
yup, it ain't on the website.
If, however, you are looking for what it means to be an Anglican, then
that's there, as is all sorts of references.
May I point out that the CofE is a pretty broad church, with members
from both evangelical and 'traditional' wings.
--
Mitch
Cfortunato
>
>>>Why not try their official web site
>>>
>>>http://www.church-of-england.org
>
>>I did. They don't state what their doctrines are.
>
>If you are looking for the equivalent of the Catholic Catechism, then
>yup, it ain't on the website.
>
>If, however, you are looking for what it means to be an Anglican, then
>that's there, as is all sorts of references.
>
Someone else mentioned Anglicans online. That is, to my mind, the best single
website.
http://anglicansonline.org/
The online Book of Common Prayer is:
http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/
Anglican Daily Office:
http://www.missionstclare.com/english/index.html
Lectionary Reading (These are usually the same as the Catholic readings)
http://www.io.com/~kellywp/lectionary.html
If you have an interest in Cathedral Music (and EVERYONE should) the exhaustive
resource is:
English Cathedral Music
http://www.cathmus.ndirect.co.uk/
And if you wish to ask Anglicans questions or lurk on a conversation,
"Episcotalk" is a fine message board.
http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=episcotalk
STSVA
reflecting official doctrines that will be equivalent to conciliar and papal
documents that promulgate Catholic doctrine. To the best of my knowledge
the Church of England is still bound by the Thirty-Nine Articles as the
basic statement of its beliefs; these are probably available online. You
could check the Church of England's homepage:
http://www.anglicancommunion.org/site.htm . Fellow group poster Cfortunato
also might be of help to you concerning your question.
Antonio wrote in message ...
>Hello fellow faithful Catholics,
>
>Does anybody know where I can find the beliefs and doctrines of the
Anglican
>Church (Church of England)?
>
>Thanks,
>antonio
>
>
STSVA
Antonio
literal hell. Is this true?
Gilgames wrote in message <19990826150225...@ng-fg1.aol.com>...
Mitch
all with:
>Basicaly, their theology is the same as the Catholic theology, including the
>sacraments and the Holy Mass
Nope.
The attiitude to the Eucharist can vary widely. Reservation of the
scarament is quite definitely *not* the norm, The same goes for the
sacrament of Reconciliation.
Women are now ordained to the priesthood, but they are not accepted in
all dioceses. The decision to ordain women caused an enormous amount of
controversy with some folk hopping over to Rome, with various degrees of
misogynous comments as parting shots.
As I said earlier, the CofE is a broad church.
--
Mitch
Mitch
with:
>I had heard something to the effect that they really don't believe in a
>literal hell. Is this true?
Nope
--
Mitch
Mitch
with:
>or, unofficially,
>
>http://anglicansonline.org/
>
>at which it's easy to find the Creeds, the 39 Articles, and so on.
for which reference I thank you ..
.. and Dave for the others. Gratefully added to my list.
--
Mitch
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
Bill Nourse <nou...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> FTT wrote:
>>ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW <OTH...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > > Antonio <none> wrote in message
> > > > Hello fellow faithful Catholics,
> > > >Does anybody know where I can find the beliefs and doctrines of the
> > > >Anglican Church (Church of England)?
> > >
> > > Definition of the Anglican Church:
> > >
> > > From The Catholic Encyclopedia Online
> > > See "http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/01498a.htm"
If you read the 2nd paragraph(under beliefs) of the above website it pretty
well lays out what the Church of England beliefs are. As I remember them.
> > > and Anglican Orders under:
> > > "http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/01491a.htm"
> > > 7-99
.> > > Of course it's always easier to have reference to your
> > > own "official" definition of Anglicanism or anything else by pointing
> > > to such universal oracles as the "unbiased"
> > > Catholic Encyclopedia.
>
> Strangely enough, my thoughts exactly. I'm sure there are Anglican
> websites that would give a perspective from "inside."
>
> Just out of curiosity, though -- did you look at the Catholic
> Encyclopedia articles, and do you have any comments? Bear in mind it's
> the 1913 edition, I believe.
I was born and raised in the Church of England my family immigrated from
England to the US in the early 1900,s I converted to Catholicism when I was
25 I still have family in England who are members in good standing in the
Church of England. So I happen to know a little about the "Church of
England" from having been a member for 25 years.
Jim Carew sfo
bokononist
(Mitch) wrote:
> On 26 Aug 1999 19:02:25 GMT, gilg...@aol.coma (Gilgames) enlightened us
> all with:
> Women are now ordained to the priesthood, but they are not accepted in
> all dioceses. The decision to ordain women caused an enormous amount of
> controversy with some folk hopping over to Rome, with various degrees of
> misogynous comments as parting shots.
>
Some - but a good many found their way into the Anglican Catholic
Church.
--
Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).
Mitch
<OTH...@prodigy.net> enlightened us all with:
>I was born and raised in the Church of England my family immigrated from
>England to the US in the early 1900,s I converted to Catholicism when I was
>25 I still have family in England who are members in good standing in the
>Church of England. So I happen to know a little about the "Church of
>England" from having been a member for 25 years.
1) You were "born and raised in the Church of England
2) Your family emigrated "to the US in the early 1900,s"
How old does that make you ?
--
Mitch
Mitch
enlightened us all with:
>Some - but a good many found their way into the Anglican Catholic
>Church.
I could say I wish they had *all* found their way there -- but that
would be very uncharitable of me <g>
--
Mitch
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
raised in the CHURCH OF ENGLAND" I was born in the US.
Jim Carew sfo
Mitch
<OTH...@prodigy.net> enlightened us all with:
>73 I never said I was born in England. What I did say was "I was born and
>raised in the CHURCH OF ENGLAND" I was born in the US.
Ah, sorry.
I thought that, from your statement <So I happen to know a little about
the "Church of England" from having been a member for 25 years.>, you
were claiming to be both au fait with the culture and in daily contact
with the various controversies etc.
Which is obviously not what you meant.
Apologies.
--
Mitch
bokononist
(Mitch) wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:55:34 GMT, "bokononist" <bokon...@ice-nine.net>
>
> I could say I wish they had *all* found their way there -- but that
> would be very uncharitable of me <g>
>
How very Catholic of you!
Boko-Maru
Mitch
enlightened us all with:
>How very Catholic of you!
The pleasure was all mine!
It's just that we had more than our fair share of misogynists already,
without inheriting any more :-)
--
Mitch
Bill Nourse
>
> Mitch <{mb.news.bounce}@bromage.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:37caac77...@bromage.demon.co.uk...
> >>England to the US in the early 1900,s I converted to Catholicism when I
> >>was 25 I still have family in England who are members in good standing in
> >>England" from having been a member for 25 years.
> >
> > 2) Your family emigrated "to the US in the early 1900,s"
> >
> > How old does that make you ?
> >
> raised in the CHURCH OF ENGLAND" I was born in the US.
>
My family came over from England too, but it was in the 1630s.
BK Darling
>single
>website.
>http://anglicansonline.org/
A very good site. I also recommend St. Sam's cyberparish:
http://justus.anglican.org/stsams/allabout.html
Regards
Mitch
all with:
>>From: Bill Nourse nou...@bellsouth.net
>
>>My family came over from England too, but it was in the 1630s.
>
>So did mine ...
>but they landed in Russia ...
This is all alien territory to me. Can you give us some further details,
please.
--
Mitch
UticaCW
>Women are now ordained to the priesthood,
...
>As I said earlier, the CofE is a broad church.
Please tell me that this pun was unintentional?
Dave
Mitch
all with:
*Blush*
Mind you, I do wish that it had been !
<wanders off, muttering
"Read before sending, you silly ... >
--
Mitch
Mitch
with:
>hen where are the beliefs of hell of the Church of England?
As you have obviously chased up none of the references you have been
given, I fell that we are wasting our time.
It would appear from your posts that you have already decided to stick
to the prejudicial opinions you were once given.
--
Mitch
Antonio
>On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:32:34 -0500, "Antonio" <none> enlightened us all
>with:
>
>>hen where are the beliefs of hell of the Church of England?
>
>As you have obviously chased up none of the references you have been
>given, I fell that we are wasting our time.
I checked them and they didn't have this info.
>
>It would appear from your posts that you have already decided to stick
>to the prejudicial opinions you were once given.
Nope. Your assumption is incorrect.
>
>--
>Mitch
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
BK Darling <geod...@cs.com> wrote in message
>>I was born and raised in the Church of England my family immigrated from
>>England to the US in the early 1900,s I converted to Catholicism when I
>>was 25 I still have family in England who are members in good standing
>>in the Church of England. So I happen to know a little about the
>>"Church of England" from having been a member for 25 years.
> Jim,
>
> The Church of England is Chartered in England, not the United States of
> America. Would you be kind enough to explain how you could have been
>raised in the CofE if your family moved to the U.S in the early 1900's (at
>least 20 years before you were born, and without your knowing what
>"Anglican" means remember an earlier correspondence?. I think you are a
>phony
At the time the Church of England and the Episcopal were considered one in
the same in our family and the large immigrant English community here in Los
Angeles, in fact they were considered more English than in England in some
]ways(we used to celebrate Guy Fawkes Day and all that as a holiday etc.)
If I should have used the term Episcopal Church I,ll stand corrected. As to
the "Anglican" thing there was little or know mention of it in those days in
connection with the Episcopal Church(Church of England) around here. To be
honest about it as a boy and young man I thought the whole idea of "Church"
was boring and spent most of my time on Sunday trying to get out of going.
It was only when I converted to Catholism that I started to take a real
interest in religion
Thanks for the correction
Jim Carew sfo
.
BK Darling
>Someone else mentioned Anglicans online. That is, to my mind, the best
>single
>website.
>http://anglicansonline.org/
I overlooked Bill Jones's website:
http://www2.netdoor.com/~bill/episcopal/churchindex.html
Regards
BK Darling
>England to the US in the early 1900,s I converted to Catholicism when I was
>25 I still have family in England who are members in good standing in the
>Church of England. So I happen to know a little about the "Church of
>England" from having been a member for 25 years.
>
Jim,
The Church of England is Chartered in England, not the United States of
America. Would you be kind enough to explain how you could have been raised in
the CofE if your family moved to the U.S in the early 1900's (at least 20 years
before you were born, and without your knowing what "Anglican" means) ..
remember an earlier corresondence?. I think you are a phony.
Mitch
<OTH...@prodigy.net> enlightened us all with:
>Thanks for the correction
I think B.K. Darling made the same mistake that I initially did -- that
you were claiming to know what you were talking about.
--
Mitch
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
Mitch <{mb.news.bounce}@bromage.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:56:30 -0500, "ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW"
> <OTH...@prdigy.net> enlightened us all with:
>
> >Thanks for the correction
>
> I think B.K. Darling made the same mistake that I initially did -- that
> you were claiming to know what you were talking about.
Both you and Darling are making the same mistake your both jumping to
conclusions as to what I said. If you read my original post(reproduced
below) I never said I was an expert on the Episcopal/Church of
England/Anglican etc. Church what I did say is I happen to know a LITTLE
about the "Church of England" Even though I was born and raised in the
Episcopal/Church of England/Anglican Church that does not make me an expert
on the subject and I never clamed to be one. Like most of its members at the
time I was not that interested. When you had to go through the motions of
going to "church" or were forced to because of family duties or the military
it filled the bill other than that forget it.
>>I was born and raised in the Church of England my family immigrated from
>>England to the US in the early 1900,s I converted to Catholicism when I
>>was 25 I still have family in England who are members in good standing
>>in the Church of England. So I happen to know a little about the
>>"Church of England" from having been a member for 25 years.
Jim Carew sfo
Mitch
<OTH...@prodigy.net> enlightened us all with:
>Even though I was born and raised in the
>Episcopal/Church of England/Anglican Church that does not make me an expert
>on the subject and I never clamed to be one
Once again. apologies for mis-reading you but a statement such as
>>>So I happen to know a little about the
>>>"Church of England" from having been a member for 25 years.
can be read as "Oy you, I was a member for 25 years, so I know what I'm
talking about"
--
Mitch
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
Mitch <{mb.news.bounce}@bromage.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:38:54 -0500, "ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW"
Sorry did not mean to mislead you
Just after the War started in Europe I think it was during the Blitz, a
couple of my English cousins among other children in the family from England
who were sent over here to get them out of danger. They wound up living with
us for the duration, among other things the way they talked there was very
little difference between the Church of England in England and the Episcopal
Church here in the Los Angeles Area ei. use of The Foxes Book of Martyrs,
Candles, etc. in as much as they were near my age one of my jobs was to
help them get acquainted with LA which included going to church.
Jim Carew sfo
Mitch
<OTH...@prodigy.net> enlightened us all with:
>Sorry did not mean to mislead you
>
>Just after the War started in Europe I think it was during the Blitz, a
>couple of my English cousins among other children in the family from England
>who were sent over here to get them out of danger. They wound up living with
>us for the duration, among other things the way they talked there was very
>little difference between the Church of England in England and the Episcopal
>Church here in the Los Angeles Area ei. use of The Foxes Book of Martyrs,
>Candles, etc. in as much as they were near my age one of my jobs was to
>help them get acquainted with LA which included going to church.
I can see where you are coming from now, but ...
.... you are basing your current assessment on what a couple of kids
told you over 50 years ago. The CofE has, like most of the UK, changed
quite a bit since then.
--
Mitch
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
Mitt <{Mb.news.bounce}@bromide.demon.co.UK> wrote in message
> On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:37:15 -0500, "ANGLE-ANNETTE CARE"
> <OTH...@prodigy.net> enlightened us all with:
> >Sorry did not mean to mislead you
>>Just after the War started in Europe I think it was during the Blitz, a
>>couple of my English cousins among other children in the family from
>>England who were sent over here to get them out of danger. They
>>wound up living with us for the duration, among other things the way
>>they talked there was very little difference between the Church of
>>England in England and the Episcopal Church here in the Los Angeles
>>Area Eli. use of The Foxes Book of Martyrs, Candles, etc. in as much
>>as they were near my age one of my jobs was to help them get
>>acquainted with LA which included going to church.
> I can see where you are coming from now, but ...
> .... you are basing your current assessment on what a couple of kids
> told you over 50 years ago.
No Along with my 2 cousins from England from there were about 20-30 adult
family members in this area who were from as I recall a place called
Youville(sp) England(I think it is to the southeast of London) We were a
close knit English family all living with in 20 miles of each other in the
LA Area in the 1920,30,s and 40,s We had family get to gathers about
once a month at somebody's house which led every so often to the
subject of religion and the Church of England among the adults
(we children were not allowed to be part of the discussion) What I,m
trying to say is a lot of my idea,s with regards to the
Episcopal/Church of England were formed by listening to these discussions
>The coffee has, like most of the UK, changed quite a bit since then.
So I understand from the posts on this NG. I hope there not as anti-Catholic
as they used to be, that's the one thing that turned me off when it comes to
the Episcopal/Church of England Church.
Jim Carew sfo
Mitch
<OTH...@prodigy.net> enlightened us all with:
>So I understand from the posts on this NG. I hope there not as anti-Catholic
>as they used to be, that's the one thing that turned me off when it comes to
>the Episcopal/Church of England Church.
Shall we just say that there is still plenty of misunderstanding around,
though nowhere near as much as this ng sees.
In England, the late great Cardinal Basil Hume was instrumental in
shifting majority opinion so that Catholics are no longer seen as
'seriously other' and, more importantly, automatic supporters of the
IRA. He showed by example that the phrase 'loving, caring, holy,
spiritual Catholic' was not an oxymoron. May he rest in peace.
--
Mitch
D.M. Bruyns
>
> On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:37:15 -0500, "ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW"
> >
> >Just after the War started in Europe I think it was during the Blitz, a
> >couple of my English cousins among other children in the family from England
> >who were sent over here to get them out of danger. They wound up living with
> >us for the duration, among other things the way they talked there was very
> >little difference between the Church of England in England and the Episcopal
> >Candles, etc. in as much as they were near my age one of my jobs was to
> >help them get acquainted with LA which included going to church.
>
> I can see where you are coming from now, but ...
>
> .... you are basing your current assessment on what a couple of kids
> quite a bit since then.
Wake up and smell the CofE, sort of thing?
<ducks huge CofE pot thrown by Mitch>
Sorry, that one was hard to resist. ;-)
At _last_ you two seem to be patching up this quarrel!
>
> --
> Mitch
Mitch
enlightened us all with:
>At _last_ you two seem to be patching up this quarrel!
*Blush*
Which shouldn't have started in the first place.
--
Mitch
FTT
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW <OTH...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:7q9ckn$6v0o$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...
> JMJ
>
> Mitt <{Mb.news.bounce}@bromide.demon.co.UK> wrote in message
>
> > On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:37:15 -0500, "ANGLE-ANNETTE CARE"
>
> > >Sorry did not mean to mislead you
>
> >>Just after the War started in Europe I think it was during the Blitz, a
> >>couple of my English cousins among other children in the family from
> >>England who were sent over here to get them out of danger. They
> >>wound up living with us for the duration, among other things the way
> >>they talked there was very little difference between the Church of
> >>England in England and the Episcopal Church here in the Los Angeles
> >>as they were near my age one of my jobs was to help them get
> >>acquainted with LA which included going to church.
>
> > I can see where you are coming from now, but ...
>
> > .... you are basing your current assessment on what a couple of kids
> > told you over 50 years ago.
>
> family members in this area who were from as I recall a place called
> Youville(sp) England(I think it is to the southeast of London) We were a
> close knit English family all living with in 20 miles of each other in the
> LA Area in the 1920,30,s and 40,s We had family get to gathers about
> once a month at somebody's house which led every so often to the
> subject of religion and the Church of England among the adults
> (we children were not allowed to be part of the discussion) What I,m
> trying to say is a lot of my idea,s with regards to the
> Episcopal/Church of England were formed by listening to these discussions
>
>
> So I understand from the posts on this NG. I hope there not as
anti-Catholic
> as they used to be, that's the one thing that turned me off when it comes
to
> the Episcopal/Church of England Church.
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> FTT replies to Jim Carew sfo
> Let's also hope Jim that RCs are not so anti-Anglican
> ( and by extension anti-protestant)
>as they used to be as well. But, some posters on this
> nsg ,living in the comfort of the good old US of A, are living
> in the throes of the Irish problem when many Irishmen on both sides
> of the conflict in the old country are working together
> to make a new world for themselves and their children.
> Prejudice Jim cuts both ways it's a two edged sword.
> PEACE
> FTT
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>
D.M. Bruyns
>
> On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:17:48 -0500, "ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW"
> >as they used to be, that's the one thing that turned me off when it comes to
> >the Episcopal/Church of England Church.
>
> though nowhere near as much as this ng sees.
>
> In England, the late great Cardinal Basil Hume was instrumental in
> shifting majority opinion so that Catholics are no longer seen as
> 'seriously other' and, more importantly, automatic supporters of the
> IRA. He showed by example that the phrase 'loving, caring, holy,
> spiritual Catholic' was not an oxymoron. May he rest in peace.
Amen.
>
> --
> Mitch
D.M. Bruyns
>
> On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:55:26 +0200, "D.M. Bruyns" <dex.b...@wxs.nl>
> enlightened us all with:
>
> >At _last_ you two seem to be patching up this quarrel!
>
> *Blush*
Go, thy blush hath excused thee.
>
> Which shouldn't have started in the first place.
Happen a bishop... Well, an _Anglican_ bishop. O :-)
Dex
>
> --
> Mitch