Pope hopeful on Catholic-Orthodox unity
LiamToo
By FRANCES D'EMILIO
Associated Press Writer
June 17, 2007
Pope Benedict XVI, right, and the Archbishop Chrysostomos II sign a
joint declaration at the Vatican, Saturday June 16, 2007. The pontiff
told the Cypriot Orthodox leader Saturday that he holds firm hope that
the Catholic and Orthodox churches can be united, despite centuries of
painful division. They also explored how the two sides could work
together on bio ethical issues and other concerns. Archbishop
Chrysostomos II of Cyprus has offered to play the role of mediator to
try to arrange a groundbreaking meeting between the pope and the
Orthodox patriarch of Moscow, Alexy II. That encounter eluded the late
John Paul II in his long papacy because of Catholic-Orthodox tensions
following the demise of Soviet communism.
Pope Benedict XVI told a visiting Cypriot Orthodox leader Saturday
that he holds hope that the Catholic and Orthodox churches can be
united, despite centuries of painful division.
The churchmen also explored how the two sides could work together on
social, moral and bioethical issues, including same-sex marriage and
embryonic stem cell research.
Archbishop Chrysostomos II of Cyprus has offered to play the role of
mediator to try to arrange a groundbreaking meeting between the pope
and the Orthodox patriarch of Moscow, Alexy II. That encounter eluded
the late John Paul II in his long papacy because of Catholic-Orthodox
tensions following the demise of Soviet communism.
In a speech to the archbishop after their private session, Benedict
said he held "firm hope" of uniting the two churches.
Despite "centuries-old divisions, diverging roads and despite the hard
work of closing painful wounds, the Lord has never ceased to guide our
steps on the path toward unity and reconciliation," Benedict said.
Chrysostomos told reporters that the chief problem was a lack of
communication between the pope and the patriarch. He said he will
pursue his offer to help organize a possible meeting when he meets
with Alexy in Moscow next month.
The archbishop has contended that Benedict's background as a
theologian with a good grasp of Orthodox theology would help the
process of reuniting the two churches, which split nearly 1,000 years
ago.
He said he left the meeting "with much optimism."
The Russian church accuses Roman Catholics of improperly seeking
converts in areas that traditionally would be Russian Orthodox. The
Vatican has rejected the allegations, saying it is only ministering to
Russia's tiny Catholic community of about 600,000 people in a country
of 144 million.
In a joint statement, both leaders pledged to "intensify the search
for full unity among all Christians."
The Vatican sees the Orthodox church as a logical partner in its
efforts to push its conservative agenda on bioethical, social and
moral issues, including opposition to embryonic stem cell research,
abortion, euthanasia and same-sex marriage.
Benedict and Chrysostomos signed a joint statement indicating such
collaboration was desired.
They expressed "serious worry" about bioethical issues, saying: "There
is in fact the risk that certain techniques applied to genetics ...
will end up harming the dignity of man."
The statement also expressed concern that humankind, by "putting
itself at the center of the universe," endangers the environment.
OrthoNews8
"LiamToo" <liamt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1182185834.6...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Dan
> ***We're thrilled that the pope of Rome is "hopeful."
Well, at least on this one occasion, he is on topic.
LiamToo
> ***We're thrilled that the pope of Rome is "hopeful."
Being "hopeful" is being optimistic and that's a good thing. Note that
there's no mention of primacy. The main gaol of the pope is this:
OrthoNews8
"Dan" <gero...@Hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182190919.2...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 18, 1:00 pm, "OrthoNews8" <newshou...@danospam.net> wrote:
>> ***We're thrilled that the pope of Rome is "hopeful."
>
>
> Well, at least on this one occasion, he is on topic.
***"Granted," Al said with an elated tone to his voice!
OrthoNews8
***I understand where you are coming from on this. You must realize by now
that I enjoy being a little snide at times. ;-)
***You may be interested to know that my parish priest, Fr. Jim Dutko, is a
member of the North American Joint Orthodox-Catholic Consultation.
***Here's a story for you, Liam:
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=3209
18 June 2007, 14:09
Vatican has no plans to convert Russia to Catholicism - cardinal Poupard
Moscow, June 18, Interfax - The Vatican does not want to convert
Russia to Catholicism, and relations with the Moscow Patriarchate are
improving, President of the Pontifical Council for Culture Cardinal
Paul Poupard told students of the Orthodox St. Tikhon Humanitarian
University on Monday.
Poupard said the Vatican never wanted to make Russia a Catholic
country. The Holy See is praying for a Christian Russia and further
preaching by Orthodox and Catholic disciples, he said.
The cardinal admitted differences between Orthodox and Catholic
clerics as members of one and the same family.
The two churches want to speak about their belief, he said, adding
that at the meeting he was wearing a cross he had received from
Patriarch of Moscow and all Russia Alexy II.
The atmosphere of inter-church relations has changed, Apostolic
Nuncio to Russia Archbishop Antonio Mennini said. He said they could
affirm Christian values together and be friends.
The Russian Orthodox Church feels that it is respected by the Holy
See, the archbishop said. The Vatican regards the Russian Orthodox
Church as the national church and welcomes the opportunity to meet
and learn about the Russian religious tradition, he said.
LiamToo
> ***I understand where you are coming from on this. You must realize by now
> that I enjoy being a little snide at times. ;-)
I understand. Being snide is part of the Usenet territory and I'm
guilty too sometimes.
> ***You may be interested to know that my parish priest, Fr. Jim Dutko, is a
> member of the North American Joint Orthodox-Catholic Consultation.
>
> ***Here's a story for you, Liam:
Thanks for the story, the future is bright indeed for both churches.
OrthoNews8
***Could be as long as we all understand that the Orthodox Church doesn't
need any other church. No other church has anything to offer that has not
already been revealed to Holy Orthodoxy.
duke
wrote:
>> Thanks for the story, the future is bright indeed for both churches.
>***Could be as long as we all understand that the Orthodox Church doesn't
>need any other church. No other church has anything to offer that has not
>already been revealed to Holy Orthodoxy.
You're church's refusal to listen to Jesus is the reason you left in the first
place.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
veritas
Why don't you take your propaganda and just shoo off over to the RCC
newsgroup ?
duke
>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:06:06 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:11:58 -0400, "OrthoNews8" <newsh...@danospam.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>> Thanks for the story, the future is bright indeed for both churches.
>>
>>>***Could be as long as we all understand that the Orthodox Church doesn't
>>>need any other church. No other church has anything to offer that has not
>>>already been revealed to Holy Orthodoxy.
>>
>>You're church's refusal to listen to Jesus is the reason you left in the first
>>place.
>Why don't you take your propaganda and just shoo off over to the RCC
>newsgroup ?
You're posting in the RCC group.
veritas
>On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:28:41 +1000, veritas <veritas@coming_soon.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:06:06 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:11:58 -0400, "OrthoNews8" <newsh...@danospam.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the story, the future is bright indeed for both churches.
>>>
>>>>***Could be as long as we all understand that the Orthodox Church doesn't
>>>>need any other church. No other church has anything to offer that has not
>>>>already been revealed to Holy Orthodoxy.
>>>
>>>You're church's refusal to listen to Jesus is the reason you left in the first
>>>place.
>
>>Why don't you take your propaganda and just shoo off over to the RCC
>>newsgroup ?
>
>You're posting in the RCC group.
Yes , I know . I did it to make sure that you and like minded folk
over there got the message .
OrthoNews8
"veritas" <veritas@coming_soon.com> wrote in message
news:qhig73t3df05iu4ps...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:06:06 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:11:58 -0400, "OrthoNews8" <newsh...@danospam.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>> Thanks for the story, the future is bright indeed for both churches.
>>
>>>***Could be as long as we all understand that the Orthodox Church doesn't
>>>need any other church. No other church has anything to offer that has not
>>>already been revealed to Holy Orthodoxy.
>>
>>You're church's refusal to listen to Jesus is the reason you left in the
>>first
>>place.
***But since the Roman Pope cast the first blow (unless you deny Church
history...)
OrthoNews8
***Since we have the whole Truth, Veritas, we should not be fearful of
taking on the heretics of Rome.
duke
>>You're posting in the RCC group.
>Yes , I know . I did it to make sure that you and like minded folk
>over there got the message .
I didn't know there was a east-ortho group until orthoX started posting in the
RC group and being insulting. I'll see you in both groups now.
duke
wrote:
>***Since we have the whole Truth, Veritas, we should not be fearful of
>taking on the heretics of Rome.
You are fearful. You put me in your kill file because you were afraid.
duke
wrote:
Actually we RC believe scripture.
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
bureacracy, many ideas, agendas, phobias, obsessions, and programs have a
life of their own. Some issue seems long dead, and then someone finds a file
and reactivates it. (It happens in other fields of endeavor as well: My
neighborhood is currently being uprooted in order to implement a fifty year
old city plan that no longer reflects reality; twelve years ago we thought
that plan had finally died.) As much as I see it as a problem on the other
side, I almost wish Orthodoxy had some of that conservative consistency;
Unfortunately, the commies and muslims destroyed much of our paperwork: I
have long advocated setting up some partisanship-proof thinktank outside the
Orthodox world to guide Orthodox countries. Lesser minds tend to see such
consistency (eg, US Council on Foreign Relations) as some sort of
conspiracy. I almost wish the Vatican archives were destroyed in some sort of
accident to liberate Rome from slavery to its own archives. On the flip side,
I wish someone would try to find and microfilm (pdf?) all the various
fragments of Orthodox archives and distribute them: ATLA only has very few of
ours; I suppose if Turkey joined the EU, scholars might be able to dig up
more fragments, but not an entire continuous corpus. Consultants have their
own flaws; Sometimes they can even appear dogmatic or ideological: But in the
case of religion, both faiths (or "lungs") could benefit from adopting some
modern methods from the science of management.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
Dan
duke wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:54:59 +1000, veritas <veritas@coming_soon.com> wrote:
>
> >>You're posting in the RCC group.
>
> >Yes , I know . I did it to make sure that you and like minded folk
> >over there got the message .
>
> I didn't know there was a east-ortho group until orthoX started posting in the
> RC group and being insulting. I'll see you in both groups now.
So you believe that every insult, offense, or slight you believe you
have received should be repaid with interest?
Orthonews irritates you and that makes it ok for you to cross-post in
such a way as to offend all kinds of people who never did you any
harm?
You believe that you should defend your church by making a nuisance of
yourself and driving fellow Christians farther from it?
Please, post to the RC group and let us post to the Orthodox group. If
Orthonews occasionally crossposts, by all means answer him, but try to
keep a sense of proportion. Your last post sounds like a declaration
of war.
duke
>> I didn't know there was a east-ortho group until orthoX started posting in the
>> RC group and being insulting. I'll see you in both groups now.
>So you believe that every insult, offense, or slight you believe you
>have received should be repaid with interest?
No, I think the Church that Christ founded would be a good discussion item.
>Orthonews irritates you and that makes it ok for you to cross-post in
>such a way as to offend all kinds of people who never did you any
>harm?
You're being a little presumptuous, aren't you.
>You believe that you should defend your church by making a nuisance of
>yourself and driving fellow Christians farther from it?
Are you afraid to discuss faith?
>Please, post to the RC group and let us post to the Orthodox group. If
>Orthonews occasionally crossposts, by all means answer him, but try to
>keep a sense of proportion. Your last post sounds like a declaration
>of war.
There will be no war unless it is declared by you EO's. Are you afraid to
discuss?
Dan
duke wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 05:58:48 -0700, Dan <gero...@Hushmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I didn't know there was a east-ortho group until orthoX started posting in the
> >> RC group and being insulting. I'll see you in both groups now.
>
> >So you believe that every insult, offense, or slight you believe you
> >have received should be repaid with interest?
>
> No, I think the Church that Christ founded would be a good discussion item.
If a troll persistently cross-posted to the RC group with no other aim
than to convince you that Mohammed was the "seal of the prophets" and
that you are all idolators, would this be a good "discussion item" for
arcr-c?
If that troll continually bungled, misquoted and misinterpreted the
bible and the official documents of the church thinking that he was
"proving" that the bible prophesies the birth of Mohammed and teaches
that belief in the divinity of Christ is idolatry, would you want to
put up with thread after thread after thread endlessly "discussing"
these tiresome propositions?
> >Orthonews irritates you and that makes it ok for you to cross-post in
> >such a way as to offend all kinds of people who never did you any
> >harm?
>
> You're being a little presumptuous, aren't you.
Possibly. Do you disagree with my "presumptions"?
> >You believe that you should defend your church by making a nuisance of
> >yourself and driving fellow Christians farther from it?
>
> Are you afraid to discuss faith?
No, I am not, but I have followed many of the threads in which you
carried on "discussions" and saw other posters finally give up on you
-- and it wasn't because they were "afraid of discussing" faith.
> >Please, post to the RC group and let us post to the Orthodox group. If
> >Orthonews occasionally crossposts, by all means answer him, but try to
> >keep a sense of proportion. Your last post sounds like a declaration
> >of war.
>
> There will be no war unless it is declared by you EO's.
What kind of reasonable dialogue is possible with you?
>Are you afraid to
> discuss?
I have already answered this question.
duke
>> No, I think the Church that Christ founded would be a good discussion item.
>If a troll persistently cross-posted to the RC group with no other aim
>than to convince you that Mohammed was the "seal of the prophets" and
>that you are all idolators, would this be a good "discussion item" for
>arcr-c?
If he presented his facts for discussion, why not? But the disparity is too
great in the case of the Muslim. However, in our case, we're both talking about
the Chruch that Christ founded and the characteristics he gave it. That would
certainly rule out the concept of trollism, because trollism requires that the
troller has no interest in the subject matter.
This would of course be out of the question in the case of Christians.
>If that troll continually bungled, misquoted and misinterpreted the
>bible and the official documents of the church thinking that he was
>"proving" that the bible prophesies the birth of Mohammed and teaches
>that belief in the divinity of Christ is idolatry, would you want to
>put up with thread after thread after thread endlessly "discussing"
>these tiresome propositions?
Well, the bible can't be misquoted because we all have access to it. We also
all know what Jesus said and we know the path that the Chruch that Christ
founded took.
>> >Orthonews irritates you and that makes it ok for you to cross-post in
>> >such a way as to offend all kinds of people who never did you any
>> >harm?
>> You're being a little presumptuous, aren't you.
>Possibly. Do you disagree with my "presumptions"?
No.
>> >You believe that you should defend your church by making a nuisance of
>> >yourself and driving fellow Christians farther from it?
>> Are you afraid to discuss faith?
>No, I am not, but I have followed many of the threads in which you
>carried on "discussions" and saw other posters finally give up on you
>-- and it wasn't because they were "afraid of discussing" faith.
Do you think it maybe had something to do with the weak and unsupportable
position they maintain?
>> >Please, post to the RC group and let us post to the Orthodox group. If
>> >Orthonews occasionally crossposts, by all means answer him, but try to
>> >keep a sense of proportion. Your last post sounds like a declaration
>> >of war.
>> There will be no war unless it is declared by you EO's.
>What kind of reasonable dialogue is possible with you?
Facts always works. History always works.
>>Are you afraid to
>> discuss?
>I have already answered this question.
You're afraid to discuss. Why? Can't you support your beliefs?
Dan
< snip>
> That would
> certainly rule out the concept of trollism, because trollism requires that the
> troller has no interest in the subject matter.
Unfortunately not. You have just demonstrated the "straw man" fallacy
for us.
> Well, the bible can't be misquoted because we all have access to it. We also
> all know what Jesus said and we know the path that the Chruch that Christ
> founded took.
1. We are not even entirely in agreement about the text of the bible.
2. We are certainly not in agreement about how that text should be
rendered in English ("plena gratia" is a good example of this).
3. Texts from the bible are often used out of context as "proof texts"
in support of false assertions.
4. We most certainly don't all understand "the path that Christ took".
> >> >Orthonews irritates you and that makes it ok for you to cross-post in
> >> >such a way as to offend all kinds of people who never did you any
> >> >harm?
> >> You're being a little presumptuous, aren't you.
> >Possibly. Do you disagree with my "presumptions"?
>
> No.
>
> >> >You believe that you should defend your church by making a nuisance of
> >> >yourself and driving fellow Christians farther from it?
> >> Are you afraid to discuss faith?
> >No, I am not, but I have followed many of the threads in which you
> >carried on "discussions" and saw other posters finally give up on you
> >-- and it wasn't because they were "afraid of discussing" faith.
>
> Do you think it maybe had something to do with the weak and unsupportable
> position they maintain?
No. This was certainly not the case with Orthodnews who showed
remarkable patience and persistence with you. He gave up on you
because he realized that you are not susceptible to rational argument.
> >> >Please, post to the RC group and let us post to the Orthodox group. If
> >> >Orthonews occasionally crossposts, by all means answer him, but try to
> >> >keep a sense of proportion. Your last post sounds like a declaration
> >> >of war.
> >> There will be no war unless it is declared by you EO's.
> >What kind of reasonable dialogue is possible with you?
>
> Facts always works. History always works.
Both facts (such as are available) and history can be misunderstood
and misinterpreted.
> >>Are you afraid to
> >> discuss?
> >I have already answered this question.
>
> You're afraid to discuss. Why? Can't you support your beliefs?
Twice I have told you that I am not "afraid to discuss". Your
unwillingness to accept this simple assertion demonstrates the
futility of discussion with you.
Have you considered drag racing?
duke
>> That would
>> certainly rule out the concept of trollism, because trollism requires that the
>> troller has no interest in the subject matter.
>Unfortunately not. You have just demonstrated the "straw man" fallacy
>for us.
Nope, it's the true definition of "troll" - to bait without interest in what
one catches.
You see, I have significant interest in the discussion.
>> Well, the bible can't be misquoted because we all have access to it. We also
>> all know what Jesus said and we know the path that the Chruch that Christ
>> founded took.
>1. We are not even entirely in agreement about the text of the bible.
We Catholics are.
>2. We are certainly not in agreement about how that text should be
>rendered in English ("plena gratia" is a good example of this).
English is not the problem. Jesus spoke Aramaic, and the first translation was
in Greek.
>3. Texts from the bible are often used out of context as "proof texts"
>in support of false assertions.
Or in support of truth.
>4. We most certainly don't all understand "the path that Christ took".
We clearly know the ones that Christ gave us.
>> Do you think it maybe had something to do with the weak and unsupportable
>> position they maintain?
>No. This was certainly not the case with Orthodnews who showed
>remarkable patience and persistence with you. He gave up on you
>because he realized that you are not susceptible to rational argument.
I though he was cowardly in running away from discussion because he couldn't get
his way. What he presented was very weak and unsupported, and was valid only to
demand that the EOC is the only way - period.
>> >> >Please, post to the RC group and let us post to the Orthodox group. If
>> >> >Orthonews occasionally crossposts, by all means answer him, but try to
>> >> >keep a sense of proportion. Your last post sounds like a declaration
>> >> >of war.
>> >> There will be no war unless it is declared by you EO's.
>> >What kind of reasonable dialogue is possible with you?
>> Facts always works. History always works.
>Both facts (such as are available) and history can be misunderstood
>and misinterpreted.
And understood and correctly interpreted. You know, if you don't like what it
says, call it misunderstood and misinterpreted.
>> >>Are you afraid to
>> >> discuss?
>> >I have already answered this question.
>> You're afraid to discuss. Why? Can't you support your beliefs?
>Twice I have told you that I am not "afraid to discuss". Your
>unwillingness to accept this simple assertion demonstrates the
>futility of discussion with you.
The comment was not (necessarily) directed just at you. I get the distinct
impression that you EOC types are desperate to keep me from discussing the
Church in the EOC ng.
>Have you considered drag racing?
Christianity is more reliable.
Dan
<snip>
> The comment was not (necessarily) directed just at you. I get the distinct
> impression that you EOC types are desperate to keep me from discussing the
> Church in the EOC ng.
The Church is a perfectly legitimate topic here. To a limited extent,
some discussion of Roman Catholic claims is acceptable. Beyond this,
we are into the realm of trolling as I understand it, and we must
perhaps agree to disagree about this.
The bottom line is that you can't have a discussion unless you find
people willing to talk to you, and now that Al has plonked you, no
amount of "I double dare you!", "You're chicken!", "Nya nya" and so on
on is likely to accomplish that.
> >Have you considered drag racing?
>
> Christianity is more reliable.
Touché :-)
Stay tuned; you might just find out how much more reliable.
OrthoNews8
"Dan" <gero...@Hushmail.com> wrote in message
On Jun 21, 12:18 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >Have you considered drag racing?
***Is this a foot race between men dressed in women's clothing?
Dan
> "Dan" <geront...@Hushmail.com> wrote in message
This makes me think of the joke about the man who says to the RC
priest, "Well, I liked your dress but your purse was on fire."
duke
>> The comment was not (necessarily) directed just at you. I get the distinct
>> impression that you EOC types are desperate to keep me from discussing the
>> Church in the EOC ng.
>The Church is a perfectly legitimate topic here. To a limited extent,
>some discussion of Roman Catholic claims is acceptable.
Actually, a full discussion of the Catholic Churches is acceptable here.
> Beyond this,
>we are into the realm of trolling as I understand it, and we must
>perhaps agree to disagree about this.
Well, you're wrong.
>The bottom line is that you can't have a discussion unless you find
>people willing to talk to you, and now that Al has plonked you, no
>amount of "I double dare you!", "You're chicken!", "Nya nya" and so on
>on is likely to accomplish that.
Al is a coward. He quickly found he couldn't justify the EOC position to a RC,
and so he cut and ran.
>> >Have you considered drag racing?
>> Christianity is more reliable.
>Touché :-)
>Stay tuned; you might just find out how much more reliable.
I will. I have the Church that Christ founded behind me.
Dan
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:34:44 -0700, Dan <geront...@Hushmail.com> wrote:
> >> The comment was not (necessarily) directed just at you. I get the distinct
> >> impression that you EOC types are desperate to keep me from discussing the
> >> Church in the EOC ng.
> >The Church is a perfectly legitimate topic here. To a limited extent,
> >some discussion of Roman Catholic claims is acceptable.
>
> Actually, a full discussion of the Catholic Churches is acceptable here.
>
> > Beyond this,
> >we are into the realm of trolling as I understand it, and we must
> >perhaps agree to disagree about this.
>
> Well, you're wrong.
It is this method of "discussion" that makes people give up on you.
> >The bottom line is that you can't have a discussion unless you find
> >people willing to talk to you, and now that Al has plonked you, no
> >amount of "I double dare you!", "You're chicken!", "Nya nya" and so on
> >on is likely to accomplish that.
>
> Al is a coward. He quickly found he couldn't justify the EOC position to a RC,
> and so he cut and ran.
I disagree. The fact is that you appear neither to understand nor to
defend the "RC position". Al just couldn't be bothered any lomger with
"duke contra mundum".
> >> >Have you considered drag racing?
> >> Christianity is more reliable.
> >Touché :-)
> >Stay tuned; you might just find out how much more reliable.
>
> I will. I have the Church that Christ founded behind me.
Yes you do, but by the grace of God even you might one day have it in
front of you.
OrthoNews8
"Dan" <gero...@Hushmail.com> wrote in message
***True. I've plonked Duke. I found his method of argument more protestant
than Catholic. He didn't seem to realize that the Bible is not the
omnipotent source of "truth" in the RCC as Duke would have us believe. He
also displayed no clue as to how the early church viewed the Roman
Patriarchate and its bishop as first among equals. But, i knew he had
limited knowledger of his confession when he didn't know that the pope is
the "supreme pontiff".
> >> >Have you considered drag racing?
> >> Christianity is more reliable.
> >Touché :-)
> >Stay tuned; you might just find out how much more reliable.
>
> I will. I have the Church that Christ founded behind me.
Yes you do, but by the grace of God even you might one day have it in
front of you.
***Absolutely wonderful statement. No doubt the Holy Spirit inspired you to
type it out!!
duke
>> > Beyond this,
>> >we are into the realm of trolling as I understand it, and we must
>> >perhaps agree to disagree about this.
>
>> Well, you're wrong.
>It is this method of "discussion" that makes people give up on you.
Right, I tell the truth as "my" method. And those that disagree with me just
can't seem to understand why they aren't overwhelming me with their own
knowledge.
I well know what's going on. I quite scripture, I quote experts, and I quote my
Church, and by golly, people like orthoX immediately start crying because I
don't roll over dead just because they heard something differently. And they
can't even use scripture to support their own views.
Now if you can show me otherwise "the error of my ways", I'l be glad to address
them here for you.
>> >The bottom line is that you can't have a discussion unless you find
>> >people willing to talk to you, and now that Al has plonked you, no
>> >amount of "I double dare you!", "You're chicken!", "Nya nya" and so on
>> >on is likely to accomplish that.
>> Al is a coward. He quickly found he couldn't justify the EOC position to a RC,
>> and so he cut and ran.
>I disagree. The fact is that you appear neither to understand nor to
>defend the "RC position". Al just couldn't be bothered any lomger with
>"duke contra mundum".
Yet I defend the RC position with scripture, experts, and Church, and people
like orthoX just say "well, my Church taught me this". And he proceeds to start
crying because his story isn't convincing. OrthoX has provided the weakest
positron I've ever seen in an attempt to support his own views.
>> I will. I have the Church that Christ founded behind me.
>Yes you do, but by the grace of God even you might one day have it in
>front of you.
I do. I have the Holy Mass, the 7 sacraments, and the papacy, and 2000 years of
the Church that Christ founded leading me. What does orthoX have?
Dan
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 05:21:07 -0700, Dan <geront...@Hushmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Now if you can show me otherwise "the error of my ways", I'l be glad to address
> them here for you.
Have you considered the possibility that a lack of humility may have
veiled the sciptures from you? Or that the kind of "jousting" you have
in mind may have more to do with hubris than faith?
<snip>
> Yet I defend the RC position
As I have written, you do nothing of the kind. You do not understand
the RC position and you cannot defend what you do not understand.
<snip>
> >> I will. I have the Church that Christ founded behind me.
> >Yes you do, but by the grace of God even you might one day have it in
> >front of you.
>
> I do. I have the Holy Mass, the 7 sacraments, and the papacy, and 2000 years of
> the Church that Christ founded leading me. What does orthoX have?
He has the sure hope of attaining true humility and purity of heart--
the hope of transfiguration and perfection in mystical union with Him
in Whom alone earth and heaven are truly united.