Question to the Creationist
Steve Zodiac
these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
Steve Zodiac
Charles P
> Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or are
> these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
Steve Zodiac
"Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
news:f_l9b.139907$0v4.10...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Now its all starting to make sense Charles! thank you.
Steve Zodiac
Richard Uhrich
And fossils.
--
Richard Uhrich
---
"so skeptical, I can hardly believe it" -- Penn Jillette quoting Chip Denman
Klaus Hellnick
"Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
news:f_l9b.139907$0v4.10...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
But who created satan? And how could he not forsee the consequences?
Kevin Johnston
"Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
Wow, so there IS more than one creator running around. I smell a whole
new sub-specialty of ID-ology. PhD in Demonic Design, anyone?
Kevin
gen2rev
How does one distinguish between creatures created by Satan, and
creatures created by God?
Therion Ware
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:21:20 +0000 (UTC) in
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, gen2rev (gen2rev
<gen...@crosswinds.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
Oh that's easy: "anything personally inconvenient to me was created by
Satan".
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 **
Charles P
Only a person who has spent too much time indoors would ask a question
like that. Or perhaps a person who doesn't have pets and has never suffered
from a flea infestation. The Lord of Love would never have created the
flea, an insect that exists only to torment both man and beast. God is only
the author of good things. How could a good God, for example, have
created poison ivy, a plant that is worthless as food, and can give one
the worst itching imaginable. I'm surprised the terrorists haven't thought
about using the plant, the oil could be extracted and sprayed around,
causing intolerable pain to countless persons. Who but the devil would
have created such a plant. Ever have poison ivy? If you have, you'll
then be able to distinguish between a godly plant and diabolical one.
David Jensen
<3Tn9b.140037$0v4.10...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:
So, who created Satan?
Charles P
> So, who created Satan?
Satan created himself. He was once a good guy and decided
to strike off on his own and become an outlaw. He used his
free will to create the "bad" aspect of himself that took over.
Scott
"Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
news:3Tn9b.140037$0v4.10...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "gen2rev" <gen...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
>
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:38:49 +0000 (UTC), "Charles P"
> > <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people
or are
> > > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
> > >
> > > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> > > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> > > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
> >
> > How does one distinguish between creatures created by Satan, and
> > creatures created by God?
>
> Only a person who has spent too much time indoors would ask a question
> like that. Or perhaps a person who doesn't have pets and has never
suffered
> from a flea infestation. The Lord of Love would never have created the
> flea, an insect that exists only to torment both man and beast.
God created beasts so fleas could have a feast.
God is only
> the author of good things. How could a good God, for example, have
> created poison ivy, a plant that is worthless as food,
Worthless? Not to birds. They love the barries cuz no other animal can eat
them.
and can give one
> the worst itching imaginable.
Not to me. I'm one of the few people who isn't allergic to it....grew up
playing and hunting around it, even passed out in once up on the river
during a wild drunken campout with friends, but that's another story. Never
got an itch but can't say the same for others I was with.
I'm surprised the terrorists haven't thought
> about using the plant, the oil could be extracted and sprayed around,
> causing intolerable pain to countless persons.
Your great gramps got there first. Search "poison ivy" and "mustard gas"
Who but the devil would
> have created such a plant. Ever have poison ivy? If you have, you'll
> then be able to distinguish between a godly plant and diabolical one.
I think god created it so I could find a place out in the woods where I,
likely wouldn't be bothered by anyone. Thank you.
Scott
Charles P
> I think god created it so I could find a place out in the woods where I,
> likely wouldn't be bothered by anyone. Thank you.
Wow, God did that just for you? You must really be an important
dude!
gen2rev
<ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
> "gen2rev" <gen...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
>
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:38:49 +0000 (UTC), "Charles P"
> > <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or are
> > > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
> > >
> > > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> > > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> > > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
> >
> > How does one distinguish between creatures created by Satan, and
> > creatures created by God?
>
> Only a person who has spent too much time indoors would ask a question
> like that.
Actually, I grew up in the country, and worked on a farm while a
teenager.
> Or perhaps a person who doesn't have pets and has never suffered
> from a flea infestation.
No, I've experienced that too.
> The Lord of Love would never have created the
> flea, an insect that exists only to torment both man and beast. God is only
> the author of good things. How could a good God, for example, have
> created poison ivy, a plant that is worthless as food, and can give one
> the worst itching imaginable. I'm surprised the terrorists haven't thought
> about using the plant, the oil could be extracted and sprayed around,
> causing intolerable pain to countless persons. Who but the devil would
> have created such a plant. Ever have poison ivy? If you have, you'll
> then be able to distinguish between a godly plant and diabolical one.
Why do you pick such "extreme" plants as examples? What about the rose?
Sure, it looks nice, by why is it covered with thorns? Whose idea was
that?
David Jensen
God didn't know this would happen? Or did God create Satan even though
He knew that this would introduce evil?
Therion Ware
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:33:29 +0000 (UTC) in
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Charles P ("Charles P"
<ch...@spammerssuck.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
>"David Jensen" <da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
And given that he knew God personally, one wonders why he did that.
Scott
Yep. Me and fleas
Scott
Sverker Johansson
And creationists.
--
Best regards,
Sverker Johansson
-----------------------------
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would
indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of
punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Einstein
------------------------------
.
see it in birth and death, ripening and decay, is part of that process.
You might say that God has ALLOWED this to happen, as part of His plan,
but I wouldn't go so far as to say He created it - and to answer the
other person: where do you see in Scripture that Satan has ANY power to
create? Personally, I find yellow jackets to be quite beautiful
creatures, despite their ability to sting and harm; they are only
protecting themselves. And ticks and the other creatures you mention
were only told one thing by God: be fruitful and multiply - He didn't
give them guidelines as to HOW to accomplish that.
ALL OF creation is God's - and someday ALL of creation will be
reconciled to Him through Christ Jesus our Lord. Satan had NO HAND in
creation. He's the father of lies and can only imitate, not create.
Again: I reiterate: as part of the fallen state of the earth, disease
and and the organisms that cause them, are part of God's permissive will
in action; while He did not create them, they are very much a part of
the plan - for redemption is for the earth and all of creation, not just
humankind.
Reference: Colossians 1
19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him (Jesus), 20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on
earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on
the cross.
Scott
"Therion Ware" <autod...@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:dt6cmvkppp5soqdfq...@4ax.com...
>
>
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:33:29 +0000 (UTC) in
> alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Charles P ("Charles P"
> <ch...@spammerssuck.com>) said, directing the reply to
> alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
>
>
>
> >"David Jensen" <da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
> >
> >> So, who created Satan?
> >
> >Satan created himself. He was once a good guy and decided
> >to strike off on his own and become an outlaw. He used his
> >free will to create the "bad" aspect of himself that took over.
>
> And given that he knew God personally, one wonders why he did that.
because he was told to bow to your sorry ass.
Steve Zodiac
Satan creates creatures that cause suffering and God creates creatures that
cause pleasure like little kittens and such. Remember, an omni-belevolent
god would not purposely create something that caused suffering since causing
pain to a loved one is inconsistent with the notion of love.
Steve Zodiac
Steve Zodiac
> alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Charles P ("Charles P"
> <ch...@spammerssuck.com>) said, directing the reply to
> alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
>
>
>
> >"David Jensen" <da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
> >
> >> So, who created Satan?
> >
> >Satan created himself. He was once a good guy and decided
> >to strike off on his own and become an outlaw. He used his
> >free will to create the "bad" aspect of himself that took over.
>
> And given that he knew God personally, one wonders why he did that.
Maybe he had relatives in heaven with him and it drove him nuts so he
bailed.
Steve Zodiac
AC
Steve Zodiac
"." <fea...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:D3q9b.4527$UN4....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> It's a natural part of the fallen state of the earth - progress, as we
> see it in birth and death, ripening and decay, is part of that process.
> You might say that God has ALLOWED this to happen, as part of His plan,
> but I wouldn't go so far as to say He created it
Then if god didn't create them then how did they get there.
- and to answer the
> other person: where do you see in Scripture that Satan has ANY power to
> create? Personally, I find yellow jackets to be quite beautiful
> creatures, despite their ability to sting and harm; they are only
> protecting themselves. And ticks and the other creatures you mention
> were only told one thing by God: be fruitful and multiply - He didn't
> give them guidelines as to HOW to accomplish that.
We have a live one here folks............
> ALL OF creation is God's -
Then god did create the viruses and infectious diseases...............
and someday ALL of creation will be
> reconciled to Him through Christ Jesus our Lord. Satan had NO HAND in
> creation. He's the father of lies and can only imitate, not create.
Too bad god can't get rid of Satan so that we would have one less thing
tempting us through the gates of eternal hell.
> Again: I reiterate: as part of the fallen state of the earth, disease
> and and the organisms that cause them, are part of God's permissive will
> in action; while He did not create them, they are very much a part of
> the plan - for redemption is for the earth and all of creation, not just
> humankind.
So there are things that exist that god didn't create. You are a confused
dude.
>
> Reference: Colossians 1
> 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him (Jesus), 20
> and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on
> earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on
> the cross.
Of the fourteen epistles ascribed to Paul, seven -- Ephesians, Colossians,
Second Thessalonians, First and Second Timothy, Titus, and Hebrews -- are
conceded by nearly all critics to be spurious while three others --
Philippians, First Thessalonians, and Philemon -- are generally classed as
doubtful.
Steve Zodiac
Figinn
I'm not a Creationist so was going to just sit back and read.
This post, however, is one of more delightful bits I've seen on Usenet ...
hehe.
So Satan makes the "bad" and God makes the "good?" Quite an interesting
position.
So who made people?
Who made Adam and Eve who sinned and turned "bad" the first chance they got?
I'd also like to see how you can reconcile this with a verse like John 1:3
where it clearly says nothing was made without God (and the Word). Or are
you saying that fleas were created *after* John's gospel was written?
I myself believe that God created the world (just not by that Creation
story) ... And you *totally* lose me with all this Satan stuff and how Satan
creates "bad things."
Figinn
Earle Jones
"." <fea...@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
> Reference: Colossians 1
> 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him (Jesus), 20
> and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on
> earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on
> the cross.
*
But you failed to note this:
"But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy
master and to thee to speak these words? [hath he]
not [sent me] to the men that sit upon the wall,
that they may eat their own dung, and drinktheir
own piss with you?"
--Isaiah 36:12
earle
*
Earle Jones
"Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote:
> "Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
> news:f_l9b.139907$0v4.10...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or
> are
> > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
> >
> > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
*
And the Dodgers.
earle
*
Jari Anttila
message:D3q9b.4527$UN4....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> It's a natural part of the fallen state of the earth - progress, as we
> see it in birth and death, ripening and decay, is part of that process.
> You might say that God has ALLOWED this to happen, as part of His plan,
> but I wouldn't go so far as to say He created it
You mean that when God allowed nasty (and very complex) things to emerge,
they originated naturally, like in evolution?
Or if it was not a natural process, then who was responsible for breaking
the laws of nature, if not God?
- and to answer the
> other person: where do you see in Scripture that Satan has ANY power to
> create? Personally, I find yellow jackets to be quite beautiful
> creatures, despite their ability to sting and harm; they are only
> protecting themselves. And ticks and the other creatures you mention
> were only told one thing by God: be fruitful and multiply - He didn't
> give them guidelines as to HOW to accomplish that.
So, various bloodsuckers, parasites, etc, were also included, when God saw
the creation was "good"?
> ALL OF creation is God's - and someday ALL of creation will be
> reconciled to Him through Christ Jesus our Lord. Satan had NO HAND in
> creation. He's the father of lies and can only imitate, not create.
I agree with that. He's also the father of the lies for God that certain
quasi-scientific apologetics is eager to use.
> Again: I reiterate: as part of the fallen state of the earth, disease
> and and the organisms that cause them, are part of God's permissive will
> in action; while He did not create them, they are very much a part of
> the plan - for redemption is for the earth and all of creation, not just
> humankind.
Again: how does a development of a complex creature via "permissive will"
differ from deliberate creation?
Jari
John Harshman
Charles P wrote:
> "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
>
>
>>Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or are
>>these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
>>
>
> God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
By that logic, Satan also created creationists. Works for me.
maf 1029
>"Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
>
>> Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or are
>> these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
>
>God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
>that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
>spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
Don't forget JHo and Bafflick.
Mike Goodrich
Easy, Satan can't create any 'creatures' as only the *Creator* can do that
...
cheers,
-mg
AC
Charles P
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:38:49 +0000 (UTC), "Charles P"
> <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
> >God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> >that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> >spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
>
> Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
> and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Fortunately, this Lord that creates evil is purely imaginary.
Charles P
> Easy, Satan can't create any 'creatures' as only the *Creator* can do that
Any creator that made smallpox and fleas is no Creator of mine.
Charles P
> "Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
> > "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or
> are
> > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
> > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
> I'm not a Creationist so was going to just sit back and read.
Judging by the responses here, you'll be doing a lot of reading.
> So Satan makes the "bad" and God makes the "good?" Quite an interesting
> position.
Well, who else would be making "bad?" Certainly not God.
> So who made people?
God did.
> Who made Adam and Eve who sinned and turned "bad" the first chance they got?
God did.
> I'd also like to see how you can reconcile this with a verse like John 1:3
> where it clearly says nothing was made without God (and the Word).
God made Satan, Satan had free will, and started making bad stuff.
No doubt, Jesus encountered nasty living things like fleas, ticks,
scorpions, intestinal parasites, etc. He must have suffered from them
as well, or at least seen what these creatures were doing to others.
Surely it would have been very difficult for him to have realized that
fleas were of his own doing, I don't think He had anything to do with
making fleas. After all, Jesus came to heal, not to infest or to cause
to infest.
> Or are
> you saying that fleas were created *after* John's gospel was written?
Fleas were created by Satan. Another example, have you ever seen a
black widow spider up close? It's one of the most evil and ugly looking things
I've ever seen, totally black. Black is Satan's color, and that spider serves
no useful purpose but to do harm, just as Satan does.
Steve Zodiac
Its called satire brother.
Steve Zodiac
Cyde Weys
> Only a person who has spent too much time indoors would ask a question
> like that. Or perhaps a person who doesn't have pets and has never suffered
> from a flea infestation.
Who are you to judge God's creations? How dare you claim some animals
good and some bad?
> The Lord of Love would never have created the
> flea, an insect that exists only to torment both man and beast.
Like it or not, the flea serves a purpose and does have a role in the
food chain.
> God is only
> the author of good things.
September 11th wasn't a "good thing". Did God cause that, too?
> How could a good God, for example, have
> created poison ivy, a plant that is worthless as food, and can give one
> the worst itching imaginable.
There are some creatures that are immune to poison ivy and eat it as
food. So it does indeed have a purpose. Just because it slightly
annoys YOU does not mean it isn't vital to other animals.
I'm surprised the terrorists haven't thought
> about using the plant, the oil could be extracted and sprayed around,
> causing intolerable pain to countless persons.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Terrorists need to KILL
people to get attention. Giving everyone poison ivy rashes does not fit
that bill.
> Who but the devil would
> have created such a plant. Ever have poison ivy? If you have, you'll
> then be able to distinguish between a godly plant and diabolical one.
Okay, are all weeds created by Satan? "Godly" plants are flowers and
trees ... diabolical plants are those such as weeds, which take over
gardens and choke trees. Yet "weeds" are a VITAL part of the food
chain. You simply don't understand the environment.
I know some real Christians who balk at your statements. The way you
make things sound, Satan is another God ... one with the ultimate power,
that of creation. But isn't Christianity supposed to be Monotheistic?
You really make no sense.
Cyde Weys
Yet you think that God wrote an entire book for a few thousand
Israelites thousands of years ago? It's more likely that He created
poison ivy to benefit the millions of people immune to it ...
Ugh, you people ...
Cyde Weys
>
> Satan creates creatures that cause suffering and God creates creatures that
> cause pleasure like little kittens and such. Remember, an omni-belevolent
> god would not purposely create something that caused suffering since causing
> pain to a loved one is inconsistent with the notion of love.
What about creatures in the middle, that benefit some animals and harm
others? There is no creature that universally causes suffering to all
others ... all creatures have a purpose. Did God only create creatures
that are "nice and fluffy" to HUMANS, and did Satan only create
creatures that are "evil and cause suffering" to HUMANS? Keep in mind,
the evidence is very clear ... most of these creatures you mention have
been in existence for many millions of years longers than humans.
There's a lot of inconsistency in what you've said that just doesn't
make sense.
Cyde Weys
Then you are an Atheist?
I wish we saw more of this stuff: creationist VS creationist. It's
hilarious!
David Jensen
<vmcbq8t...@corp.supernews.com>:
>
>"gen2rev" <gen...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
>news:kv0cmvk2rg1m6bk0e...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:38:49 +0000 (UTC), "Charles P"
>> <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
>> >
>> > > Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or
>are
>> > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
>> >
>> > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
>> > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
>> > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
>>
>> How does one distinguish between creatures created by Satan, and
>> creatures created by God?
>
>Satan creates creatures that cause suffering and God creates creatures that
>cause pleasure like little kittens and such.
Have you asked the pretty birds and cute little mice what they think of
cats?
> Remember, an omni-belevolent
>god would not purposely create something that caused suffering since causing
>pain to a loved one is inconsistent with the notion of love.
Apparently He's not an omni-benevolent God then.
John Drayton
<snip some quite funny stuff>
Just to let you know Charles, when you post to t.o. it's often
good to mark your satirical work with some tags
Eg <satire> funny stuff here </satire>
Or you can make it even more absurd than a typical fundamentalist
rant (which may be an impossible challenge).
Or I guess you can just sit back and have fun watching people
figure out if you are serious or not.
I'm guessing you've gone for the last option.
--
John Drayton
observa
"Cyde Weys" <cy...@umd.edu> wrote in message
news:bk5tto$32c$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
Now here's a puzzler for you. What about Datura? The flower has a very
nice smell. But if you make, or drink, an extract from it, it's likely la
la land for you. Perhaps both God and Satan cooperated in creating it? If
only things were simple and we could agree on the definition of good and
bad.
Alan Jeffery
>
> Okay, are all weeds created by Satan? "Godly" plants are flowers and
> trees ... diabolical plants are those such as weeds, which take over
> gardens and choke trees. Yet "weeds" are a VITAL part of the food
> chain. You simply don't understand the environment.
>
> I know some real Christians who balk at your statements. The way you
> make things sound, Satan is another God ... one with the ultimate power,
> that of creation. But isn't Christianity supposed to be Monotheistic?
> You really make no sense.
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 1/09/2003
Chris Johnson
<mic...@thelastchurch.borg> wrote in message
news:9rgcmvki86ui5q57j...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:38:49 +0000 (UTC), "Charles P"
> <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
> >God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> >that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> >spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
>
> Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
> and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
>
>
> ..
>
> **************************
> A preacher is the blind
> leading the blind...
>
> The Last Church
> http://www.thelastchurch.org
> mic...@thelastchurch.org
>
> alt.religion.thelastchurch
> alt.religion.the-last-church
> http://www.blueletterbible.org/
> http://www.bible2000.org/index.htm
>
Charles P
> did Satan create "Spam" both kinds
The real Spam (in a can) was created by Satan, both
directly and indirectly. God has always hated pigs and
forbidden us to eat them. He set an example of this
by allowing demons to enter a group of pigs, and the
pigs killed themselves. Real Spam is a particularly
bad form of pig meat that only Satan himself could have
concocted, yet another example of how the devil conspires
to lead mankind astray by encouraging us to eat foul things.
Computer spam is an annoyance created by Satan's
followers here on earth. There should be laws against
spammers. Those convicted should be forced to clean
rubbish from highways, wearing special uniforms with
large letters "SPAMMER" emblazoned on the front
and back.
observa
No, no, no! God did not create poison ivy. Satan did. Sheesh, you people.
Alan Jeffery
Steve Zodiac
> In talk.origins, "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in
> <vmcbq8t...@corp.supernews.com>:
>
> >
> >"gen2rev" <gen...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
> >news:kv0cmvk2rg1m6bk0e...@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:38:49 +0000 (UTC), "Charles P"
> >> <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
> >> >
> >> > > Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people
or
> >are
> >> > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
> >> >
> >> > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> >> > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> >> > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
> >>
> >> How does one distinguish between creatures created by Satan, and
> >> creatures created by God?
> >
> >Satan creates creatures that cause suffering and God creates creatures
that
> >cause pleasure like little kittens and such.
>
> Have you asked the pretty birds and cute little mice what they think of
> cats?
Yes but they don't talk to me.
> > Remember, an omni-belevolent
> >god would not purposely create something that caused suffering since
causing
> >pain to a loved one is inconsistent with the notion of love.
>
> Apparently He's not an omni-benevolent God then.
Ya don't say.
>
Steve Zodiac
Nice to know you can recognise satire. Lets forget the animals and move on
to AIDS perhaps. What was god thinking.
Steve Zodiac
Mike Goodrich
Non sequitur ...
-mg
Scott
May be Satan is a selective breeder
Scott
Scott
Punishment for those people banging monkeys in Africa
Scott
> did Satan create "Spam" both kinds
And God populated the earth with broccoli and cauliflower and spinach and
green and yellow vegetables of all kinds, so Man and Woman would live long
and healthy lives. And Satan created McDonald. And McDonald brought
forth the 99-cent double-cheeseburger. And Satan said to Man, "You want
fries with that?" And Man said, "Super size them" And Man gained pounds.
And God created the healthful yogurt, that woman might keep her figure that
man found so fair. And Satan froze the yogurt, and he brought forth
chocolate, nuts and brightly colored sprinkle candy to put on the yogurt.
And woman gained pounds.
And God said, "Try my crispy fresh salad." And Satan brought forth creamy
dressings, bacon bits, and shredded cheese. And there was ice cream for
dessert. And woman gained pounds.
And God said, "I have sent your heart healthy vegetables and olive oil with
which to cook them." And Satan brought forth chicken-fried steak so big it
needed its own platter. And Man gained pounds, and his bad cholesterol went
through the roof.
And God brought forth running shoes, and Man resolved to lose those extra
pounds. And Satan brought forth cable TV with remote control so Man would
not have to toil to change channels between ESPN and ESPN2. And Man gained
pounds.
And God said, "You're running up the score, Devil."
And God brought forth the potato, a vegetable naturally low in fat and
brimming with nutrition. And Satan peeled off the healthful skin and sliced
the starchy center into chips and deep-fat fried them. And he created sour
cream dip also. And Man clutched his remote control and ate the potato
chips swaddled in cholesterol. And Satan saw and said, "It is good." And Man
went into cardiac arrest.
And God sighed and created quadruple bypass surgery.
.... and Satan created HMOs......
Steve Zodiac
Whats wrong with banging a distant relative....
Steve Zodiac
.
It differentiates from being *created* by being the *result* of a fallen
creation - fallen from God's grace. When God saw that His creation was
good, that was BEFORE the fall.
I suppose one could say - as a natural part of this *progression* from
grace to a cursed or fallen state, that certain bacteriums and viruses,
fungi, etc., are making adaptational changes within their species in
order to survive - in response to environmental changes that were
brought about as a result of the fall of humankind. I wouldn't go so far
as to call it "evolution," for in MY mind, evolution means that one
species evolves into another. In the Genesis account of Creation, we see
that each creature was created "according to its own kind," and from
what I understand, that doesn't leave room for a dinosaur species to
evolve into a bird, for example.
Anyway, I digressed a bit:
After the fall, GOD said, Genesis 3: "14 So the LORD God said to the
serpent, 'Because you have done this,
'Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.'
16 To the woman he said,
'I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.'
17 To Adam he said, 'Because you listened to your wife and ate from the
tree about which I commanded you, "You must not eat of it,"
'Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.'
20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all
the living.
21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed
them. 22 And the LORD God said, 'The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and
take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.' 23 So the
LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from
which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the
east side [5] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword
flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."
(I suggest reading all of the first three chapters of Genesis for a more
balanced perspective, of course).
And to whomever called me a "dude," well, check your gender, dear, I am
a woman. :)
Feather
harvest dancer
Love the story. I'm not contradicting you, but Sen. Ted Kennedy created the HMOs.
Jason
Scott
theys ain't that distant
Scott
David Jensen
<4f697f9f.03091...@posting.google.com>:
Kaiser Permanente was what an HMO should be. Now HMO has become a
euphemism for an insurance company that controls who you go to.
AC
Well, Mike, did God create smallpox and fleas or not? Did he create
intestinal worms and parasitic vines? Did he create syphilis and smallpox?
Yes or no will do.
--
Aaron Clausen
Steve Zodiac
yous is probly right.
Steve Zodiac
Jim
"Cyde Weys" <cy...@umd.edu> wrote in message
news:bk5u69$32c$4...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
Jari Anttila
message:A6H9b.5315$UN4...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Dear Jari, (I hope I can answer this for you?)
>
> It differentiates from being *created* by being the *result* of a fallen
> creation - fallen from God's grace. When God saw that His creation was
> good, that was BEFORE the fall.
>
> I suppose one could say - as a natural part of this *progression* from
> grace to a cursed or fallen state, that certain bacteriums and viruses,
> fungi, etc., are making adaptational changes within their species in
> order to survive - in response to environmental changes that were
> brought about as a result of the fall of humankind. I wouldn't go so far
> as to call it "evolution," for in MY mind, evolution means that one
> species evolves into another.
The point was that the transformation from the original "good" state
to a fallen one obviously required so radical changes in various species
that it is comparable to macroevolution, which is impossible by
natural means - according to antievolutionists. That is not speciation;
instead it is development of many organs and traits that didn't exist
before the Fall. I very much doubt that could entirely be explained
by degradation or "loss of information" as the creationists are trying to
do.
> In the Genesis account of Creation, we see
> that each creature was created "according to its own kind," and from
> what I understand, that doesn't leave room for a dinosaur species to
> evolve into a bird, for example.
So far no one knows what the biblical "kind" means.
It cannot be a biological species, because they have been observed to
evolve into another.
Regards
Jari
Pithecanthropus erectus
"Sverker Johansson" <lsj.h...@homo.sapiens.se> wrote in message
news:3F66299E...@homo.sapiens.se...
are
> > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
> >
> > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
>
>
Creationists are made, not born.
> --
>
> Best regards,
> Sverker Johansson
> -----------------------------
> "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
> education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would
> indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of
> punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Einstein
> ------------------------------
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/03
Earle Jones
"Pithecanthropus erectus" <tui...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Sverker Johansson" <lsj.h...@homo.sapiens.se> wrote in message
> news:3F66299E...@homo.sapiens.se...
> > Charles P wrote:
> > >
> > > "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or
> are
> > > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
> > >
> > > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> > > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> > > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
*
And Roseann Barr.
earle
*
I give you the answer; you tell me the question:
Answer: Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, and Roseann Barr.
What is the question?
Question: Name two movie stars and a dog.
ej
*
Earle Jones
"Mike Goodrich" <michael...@cox.net> wrote:
*
I once climbed Mount Lassen and looked down into the creator.
earle
*
Charles P
> "Sverker Johansson" <lsj.h...@homo.sapiens.se> wrote in message
> > Charles P wrote:
> > >
> > > "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or
> are
> > > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
> > >
> > > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> > > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> > > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
> >
> > And creationists.
> >
>
> Creationists are made, not born.
Are gay people made, or born?
Greg
> "Mike Goodrich" <michael...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> > Easy, Satan can't create any 'creatures' as only the *Creator* can do that
>
> Any creator that made smallpox and fleas is no Creator of mine.
How do you know that the universe was not created for ticks, fleas,
and tape worms, and you were created especially for their benefit?
This is the logical conclusion of the fine-tuning argument.
--
Greg
Acocdrnig to an Elgnsih unviesitry sutdy the oredr of letetrs in a
wrod dosen't mttaer, the olny thnig thta's iopmrantt is that the frsit
and lsat ltteer of eevry wrod is in the crrecot ptoision. The rset can
be jmbueld and one is stlil able to raed the txet wiohtut dclftfuiiy.
RetroProphet
>and started making bad stuff.
Are any of the living creatures that kill "bad stuff"?
Do any "good animals" kill?
Lenny Flank
I suggest particularly reading these verses:
Genesis 1:11 -- "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the
herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind,
whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
Genesis 1: 24 -- "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living
creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the
earth after his kind: and it was so."
Note the language here. These verses do NOT say that "God created
life". They say God TOLD THE EARTH TO BRING FORTH LIFE.
In ancient times, any object or artifact that was found in the earth
was referred to as a "fossil".
The meaning is rather clear to me: Plants and animals that exist
today came from the earth and those things we find buried in the
earth---from fossils.
On other words, from evolution.
I would like a creationist to explain to me why the Bible not only
specifically says that God did NOT directly create plants or animals,
but specifically says that plants and animals were "brought forth from
the earth" --- exactly as evolutionary theory states.
===============================================
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked Website:
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
"DebunkCreation" email list at Yahoogroups:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DebunkCreation/join
Charles P
> "Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
> > "Mike Goodrich" <michael...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > Easy, Satan can't create any 'creatures' as only the *Creator* can do that
> >
> > Any creator that made smallpox and fleas is no Creator of mine.
>
> How do you know that the universe was not created for ticks, fleas,
> and tape worms, and you were created especially for their benefit?
> This is the logical conclusion of the fine-tuning argument.
God created human beings so He wouldn't be so lonely, He wanted us
for companionship, if I'm not mistaken. How could God get any benefit
of companionship from a creature as simple and disgusting as a tick or
a flea? God has strict standards as to who He allows in Heaven with
Him. He would never allow such lowly creatures into Heaven, and
why would He have made them to exist on earth? If fleas became extinct,
mankind and beastkind would live more comfortably and enjoy life more,
isn't that what God wants for all His creatures? Only Satan would have
had the desire to spoil things by bringing fleas into the picture, Satan
made them, not God.
Charles P
> >God made Satan, Satan had free will,
> >and started making bad stuff.
> Are any of the living creatures that kill "bad stuff"?
Carnivores kill in order to survive. Take the big cats, for example.
Magnificent, highly intelligent animals that must eat meat. God
has taught them only to kill when they need food, not to kill for
sport, as the degenerate devil-inspired humans sometimes do.
A big cat will take you down fast and mercifully, the big teeth
will clamp hard on your windpipe, and you'll soon pass out.
Those cats are merciful and practical. Take a look at the wolf,
with his musical howl and family structured living. Wolves have
family values that are more advanced than humans, wolves take
care of their young and don't abandon either their children or
their mates, you don't find deadbeat wolf dads or divorced wolves.
Obviously, God taught these animals good living habits. Wolves
also kill quickly, they don't needlessly torture for pleasure, as humans do.
> Do any "good animals" kill?
Yes, "good" animals kill, but they do it according to God's laws.
If only humans could behave as well as animals. However, the
animals don't have a fallen nature and original sin, it was humans
that fell in the garden of eden, the animals didn't sin.
There are other creatures, however, that are inherently bad and
do no good whatsoever. The black widow spider is an example;
Evil incarnate, a creature that serves no purpose aside from causing
severe pain or death. God would never have made a black widow.
observa
> "Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
news:<F%s9b.140494$0v4.10...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> > "Mike Goodrich" <michael...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > Easy, Satan can't create any 'creatures' as only the *Creator* can do
that
> >
> > Any creator that made smallpox and fleas is no Creator of mine.
>
> How do you know that the universe was not created for ticks, fleas,
> and tape worms, and you were created especially for their benefit?
> This is the logical conclusion of the fine-tuning argument.
it is a "well know fact" that "God has an inordinate fondness for Beatles."
(paraphrasing T.H. Huxley (?))
Alan Jeffery
>
> --
> Greg
>
> Acocdrnig to an Elgnsih unviesitry sutdy the oredr of letetrs in a
> wrod dosen't mttaer, the olny thnig thta's iopmrantt is that the frsit
> and lsat ltteer of eevry wrod is in the crrecot ptoision. The rset can
> be jmbueld and one is stlil able to raed the txet wiohtut dclftfuiiy.
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 1/09/2003
observa
"Earle Jones" <earle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:earle.jones-DDB7...@netnews.attbi.com...
If you come to NZ, you can climb Mt Ruapehu, and look down into the creator
lake. But don't swim in because the results would be bad (for you).
Alan Jeffery
>
> earle
> *
Dennis
refute your logic. At the very least, few would waste their time with it.
Dennis
"Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
news:esP9b.145558$3o3.10...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Charles P
>
> it is a "well know fact" that "God has an inordinate fondness for Beatles."
> (paraphrasing T.H. Huxley (?))
God loves rock'n'roll?
observa
> "RetroProphet" <RetroProp...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>
> > >God made Satan, Satan had free will,
> > >and started making bad stuff.
>
> > Are any of the living creatures that kill "bad stuff"?
>
> Carnivores kill in order to survive. Take the big cats, for example.
> Magnificent, highly intelligent animals that must eat meat. God
> has taught them only to kill when they need food, not to kill for
> sport, as the degenerate devil-inspired humans sometimes do.
> A big cat will take you down fast and mercifully, the big teeth
> will clamp hard on your windpipe, and you'll soon pass out.
> Those cats are merciful and practical.
I suggest you take a good look (Video it and play back slowly) the next time
the Nat Geog (Discovery?) channel shows lions taking down zebras. The
strike is mostly to the rear, and the zebra is either hamstrung or its leg
broken. Eating then starts while the zebra is still alive (this also
applies to wildebeest). I think you are anthropomorphizing.
> Take a look at the wolf,
> with his musical howl and family structured living. Wolves have
> family values that are more advanced than humans, wolves take
> care of their young and don't abandon either their children or
> their mates, you don't find deadbeat wolf dads or divorced wolves.
You find both (they are called lobos). And when another alpha male (or
female) takes over a pack the cubs of the previous alpha are killed by the
new one. This also happens to lion cubs when a new male moves in and takes
over. I suggest you stop using rose-tinted specs when looking at your
"favourite" fuzzy animals.
Alan Jeffery
> Obviously, God taught these animals good living habits. Wolves
> also kill quickly, they don't needlessly torture for pleasure, as humans
do.
>
> > Do any "good animals" kill?
>
> Yes, "good" animals kill, but they do it according to God's laws.
> If only humans could behave as well as animals. However, the
> animals don't have a fallen nature and original sin, it was humans
> that fell in the garden of eden, the animals didn't sin.
>
> There are other creatures, however, that are inherently bad and
> do no good whatsoever. The black widow spider is an example;
> Evil incarnate, a creature that serves no purpose aside from causing
> severe pain or death. God would never have made a black widow.
>
>
>
John Wilkins
> "Greg" <gg...@iwaynet.com> wrote in message
> news:8ae647d2.03091...@posting.google.com...
> > "Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
> news:<F%s9b.140494$0v4.10...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> > > "Mike Goodrich" <michael...@cox.net> wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Easy, Satan can't create any 'creatures' as only the *Creator* can do
> that
> > >
> > > Any creator that made smallpox and fleas is no Creator of mine.
> >
> > How do you know that the universe was not created for ticks, fleas,
> > and tape worms, and you were created especially for their benefit?
> > This is the logical conclusion of the fine-tuning argument.
>
> it is a "well know fact" that "God has an inordinate fondness for Beatles."
> (paraphrasing T.H. Huxley (?))
JBS Haldane. Beetles. "Known". Other than that, spot on...
>
> Alan Jeffery
> >
> > --
> > Greg
> >
> > Acocdrnig to an Elgnsih unviesitry sutdy the oredr of letetrs in a
> > wrod dosen't mttaer, the olny thnig thta's iopmrantt is that the frsit
> > and lsat ltteer of eevry wrod is in the crrecot ptoision. The rset can
> > be jmbueld and one is stlil able to raed the txet wiohtut dclftfuiiy.
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 1/09/2003
--
John Wilkins wilkins.id.au
For long you live and high you fly,
and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
and all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be
Sverker Johansson
> "Sverker Johansson" <lsj.h...@homo.sapiens.se> wrote in message
> news:3F66299E...@homo.sapiens.se...
> > Charles P wrote:
> > >
> > > "Steve Zodiac" <St...@zodiac.net> wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Is God creating new viruses and infectious bacteria to kill people or
> are
> > > > these organisms constantly evolving as a natural process.
> > >
> > > God never created any of the things you mention, Satan is behind all
> > > that. Satan also created yellow jackets, fleas, ticks, black widow
> > > spiders, mosquitoes, and poison ivy.
> >
> > And creationists.
> >
>
> Creationists are made, not born.
Creationist are made, by two fucking creationists.
(Fucking in both the expletive and literal sense.)
Then they are born, and are infected at a tender age
with the mind virus that causes creationism, much like
AIDS babies are.
Best regards
Sverker Johansson
Scott
now, now....everyone shops at wal-mart
Scott
gen2rev
Made, from what I understand.
gen2rev
<ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
> "RetroProphet" <RetroProp...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>
> > >God made Satan, Satan had free will,
> > >and started making bad stuff.
>
> > Are any of the living creatures that kill "bad stuff"?
>
> Carnivores kill in order to survive. Take the big cats, for example.
> Magnificent, highly intelligent animals that must eat meat. God
> has taught them only to kill when they need food, not to kill for
> sport, as the degenerate devil-inspired humans sometimes do.
> A big cat will take you down fast and mercifully, the big teeth
> will clamp hard on your windpipe, and you'll soon pass out.
> Those cats are merciful and practical. Take a look at the wolf,
> with his musical howl and family structured living. Wolves have
> family values that are more advanced than humans, wolves take
> care of their young and don't abandon either their children or
> their mates, you don't find deadbeat wolf dads or divorced wolves.
> Obviously, God taught these animals good living habits. Wolves
> also kill quickly, they don't needlessly torture for pleasure, as humans do.
What about house cats that toy with mice before killing them?
[snip]
Charles P
House cats have been corrupted by fallen humans. A house cat could
never survive on its own in the wild, so house cats don't count.
Seppo Pietikainen
Feral cats and lynx do the same thing. Do they count?
Seppo P.
Seppo Pietikainen
(Replying to myself and simultaneously slapping my head vigorously!)
How *absolutely* stupid of me!
Feral cats and lynx have been corrupted by fallen *trees*.
*Now* it begins to make sense.
Solution: Burn all trees!
Seppo P.
Scott
"harvest dancer" <harves...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f697f9f.03091...@posting.google.com...news:<HfF9b.17$yG6.34...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>...
> > "Chris Johnson" <cjohn...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:7wx9b.27794$z32....@twister.austin.rr.com...
> > > did Satan create "Spam" both kinds
> >
> > And God populated the earth with broccoli and cauliflower and spinach
and
> > green and yellow vegetables of all kinds, so Man and Woman would live
long
> > and healthy lives. And Satan created McDonald. And McDonald brought
> > forth the 99-cent double-cheeseburger. And Satan said to Man, "You want
> > fries with that?" And Man said, "Super size them" And Man gained pounds.
> >
> > And God created the healthful yogurt, that woman might keep her figure
that
> > man found so fair. And Satan froze the yogurt, and he brought forth
> > chocolate, nuts and brightly colored sprinkle candy to put on the
yogurt.
> > And woman gained pounds.
> >
> > And God said, "Try my crispy fresh salad." And Satan brought forth
creamy
> > dressings, bacon bits, and shredded cheese. And there was ice cream for
> > dessert. And woman gained pounds.
> >
> > And God said, "I have sent your heart healthy vegetables and olive oil
with
> > which to cook them." And Satan brought forth chicken-fried steak so big
it
> > needed its own platter. And Man gained pounds, and his bad cholesterol
went
> > through the roof.
> >
> > And God brought forth running shoes, and Man resolved to lose those
extra
> > pounds. And Satan brought forth cable TV with remote control so Man
would
> > not have to toil to change channels between ESPN and ESPN2. And Man
gained
> > pounds.
> >
> > And God said, "You're running up the score, Devil."
> >
> > And God brought forth the potato, a vegetable naturally low in fat and
> > brimming with nutrition. And Satan peeled off the healthful skin and
sliced
> > the starchy center into chips and deep-fat fried them. And he created
sour
> > cream dip also. And Man clutched his remote control and ate the potato
> > chips swaddled in cholesterol. And Satan saw and said, "It is good." And
Man
> > went into cardiac arrest.
> >
> > And God sighed and created quadruple bypass surgery.
> >
> > .... and Satan created HMOs......
>
> Love the story. I'm not contradicting you, but Sen. Ted Kennedy created
the HMOs.
well thar you go...
Richard Uhrich
Killer whales with baby sea lions?
--
Richard Uhrich
---
"so skeptical, I can hardly believe it" -- Penn Jillette quoting Chip Denman
observa
"John Wilkins" <wil...@wehi.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1g1fo1s.18qbrlofaj2tuN%wil...@wehi.edu.au...
> observa <obs...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > "Greg" <gg...@iwaynet.com> wrote in message
> > news:8ae647d2.03091...@posting.google.com...
> > > "Charles P" <ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote in message
> > news:<F%s9b.140494$0v4.10...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> > > > "Mike Goodrich" <michael...@cox.net> wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > > Easy, Satan can't create any 'creatures' as only the *Creator* can
do
> > that
> > > >
> > > > Any creator that made smallpox and fleas is no Creator of mine.
> > >
> > > How do you know that the universe was not created for ticks, fleas,
> > > and tape worms, and you were created especially for their benefit?
> > > This is the logical conclusion of the fine-tuning argument.
> >
> > it is a "well know fact" that "God has an inordinate fondness for
Beatles."
> > (paraphrasing T.H. Huxley (?))
>
> JBS Haldane. Beetles. "Known". Other than that, spot on...
Isn't it funny how one can continue a myth? It is well "known" that
Darwin's Bulldog said it, but, as you say, wrong. The "Beatles" was a
deliberate mistake. And got a rise from one cretinist.
Alan Jeffery
Steve Zodiac
I suppose that gay guys learn to talk *that way* from hanging out with
women? You are deluded.
Steve Zodiac
gen2rev
Sorry, what I meant to type was "born", but somehow wires got crossed
between my brain and my fingers.
> Steve Zodiac
>
.
> The point was that the transformation from the original "good" state
> to a fallen one obviously required so radical changes in various species
> that it is comparable to macroevolution, which is impossible by
> natural means - according to antievolutionists.
Macro-evolution - or, the adpatational changes WITHIN a given species as
a response to environmental changes, is necessary when taken in light of
the fall - God, in my opinion, CREATED that so-called "programming," as
part of His plan, and while I can never claim to fully comprehend it
(who can know the mind of God?), I DO believe it. And that takes an act
of faith, for me. It's miraculous, when you stop to think about it,
indeed, even supernatural - if God can become a pillar of fire in the
desert to lead Moses away from the pursuing Egyptians, then of course He
has made His Creation to be something which in turn, is just as
miraculous in its movement. One could say, too, that since the fall of
humankind from grace, that the world is DE-volving, rather than
E-volving. Why? Death, decay, species losing the battle and heading for
extinction - some without "help" from humans (though not all, and for
that I am sad-and my singular response is to recycle waste, etc and so
forth and pray it is enough, while knowing that this present world of
dying matter isn't going to last - but not wishing to rush it along,
either).
That is not speciation;
> instead it is development of many organs and traits that didn't exist
> before the Fall. I very much doubt that could entirely be explained
> by degradation or "loss of information" as the creationists are trying to
> do.
No, I don't think it's due to that, either: I believe that when the
earth was cursed, that everything changed immediately - it was
catastrophism at its inception, if you will.
>
>
>>In the Genesis account of Creation, we see
>>that each creature was created "according to its own kind," and from
>>what I understand, that doesn't leave room for a dinosaur species to
>>evolve into a bird, for example.
>
>
> So far no one knows what the biblical "kind" means.
Someone else quoted the Scriptural references - **after their kind** are
the key words. A jay will always be a jay and cannot interbreed with
anything other than jays (witness the Blue Jay, Cyanocitta cristata,
interbreeding with the Steller's Jay, Cyanocitta stelleri, in eastern
Washington state, for example. They are different "jays" but they are
still JAYS, members of the corvid family.)
> It cannot be a biological species, because they have been observed to
> evolve into another.
Where? I see no indication of one species evolving into another with any
great assurance anywhere in the fossil record. Only different species.
No "missing links" between them. See reference to jays above.
*"curiouser and curiouser," said Alice.*
.
> How does one distinguish between creatures created by Satan, and
> creatures created by God?
Show me where, in the Bible, that Satan can create with the same power
of God. Satan is the father of lies and the great imitator. He cannot
create anything other than discord, lies, and destruction. Therefore, he
has no power to create anything that lives.
FF
Charles P
> gen2rev wrote:
Satan is a smart fellow, and he's been around for a very long time. If we
fallible and weak humans can splice genes and genetically modify living
things, why can't Satan have done the same? Satan has lots of demons
at his disposal to do things for him, he could easily accomplish such things.
gen2rev
wrote:
I suggest you take up the discussion with Charles P, since he's the one
making the claim. I'm just asking him for clarification of his beliefs.
> FF
Charles P
> Jari Anttila wrote:
>
>
> > The point was that the transformation from the original "good" state
> > to a fallen one obviously required so radical changes in various species
> > that it is comparable to macroevolution, which is impossible by
> > natural means - according to antievolutionists.
>
> Macro-evolution - or, the adpatational changes WITHIN a given species as
> a response to environmental changes, is necessary when taken in light of
> the fall - God, in my opinion, CREATED that so-called "programming," as
> part of His plan, and while I can never claim to fully comprehend it
> (who can know the mind of God?), I DO believe it.
Why believe in the supernatural and incomphrehensible when a fully understandable
scientific view is available? Why make things hard on yourself?
>And that takes an act
> of faith, for me. It's miraculous, when you stop to think about it,
> indeed, even supernatural - if God can become a pillar of fire in the
> desert to lead Moses away from the pursuing Egyptians, then of course He
> has made His Creation to be something which in turn, is just as
> miraculous in its movement.
I've always found that whenever faith and belief in miracles is required,
that there's a scamster lurking around in there someone, hoping to profit
from you.
> One could say, too, that since the fall of
> humankind from grace, that the world is DE-volving, rather than
> E-volving.
The fossil record is pretty clear about more complex forms of life
arising as time goes on through the ages. Why not take the simplest
explanation that can be supported with real evidence?
> No, I don't think it's due to that, either: I believe that when the
> earth was cursed, that everything changed immediately - it was
> catastrophism at its inception, if you will.
All this "cursing of the earth" could have been avoided had God
just seen a good therapist and anger management specialist.
God could have just relaxed, and said, well, ok, they made a
mistake, I can live with that. But no, God has to get all mad
about it and then he runs about cursing things. God seems to
have all the emotions of a spoiled child.
AC
I know of no statement in the Bible that supports your assertion.
Of course, I know of no evidence for Satan, or for God.
--
Aaron Clausen
RoyBoy
> So far no one knows what the biblical "kind" means.
> evolve into another.
>
>
> Jari
The current definition I got from a creationist was that
Kinds refers to the capacity to interbreed. Non-viable
offspring counts too apparently.
RoyBoy
What exactly do you mean by a house cat Charles?
I found my domesticated cat in the wild, and I watched him
as he played with frogs and striken chipmunks. His species
is quite capable of surviving in the wild.
Not to mention truly wild animals, especially the more
intelligent ones play with prey more often than dumb ones.
There is actually a strong correlation between play and
intelligence, in case you've forgotten. Then of course there
is the infanticide which isn't uncommon for higher mammals.
Do you actually know much about nature, or do you
make it up as you go along?
--
"[When a young person loses faith in his religion because he begins to study
science and its methodology] it isn't that [through the obtaining of real
knowledge that] he knows it all, but he suddenly realizes that he doesn't
know it all."
- Richard P. Feynman
Steve Zodiac
"." <fea...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
Satan is very powerful, in fact he has escaped god determination to lock him
up forever. It makes me wonder what god is thinking when he allows Satan to
go about spreading temptation and evil. And yet if anyone of us does
anything bad we are banished to the hellfires forever. Is that fair?
Steve Zodiac
Steve Zodiac
"." <fea...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> Jari Anttila wrote:
>
>
> > The point was that the transformation from the original "good" state
> > to a fallen one obviously required so radical changes in various species
> > that it is comparable to macroevolution, which is impossible by
> > natural means - according to antievolutionists.
>
> Macro-evolution - or, the adpatational changes WITHIN a given species as
> a response to environmental changes, is necessary when taken in light of
> the fall - God, in my opinion, CREATED that so-called "programming," as
> part of His plan, and while I can never claim to fully comprehend it
> (who can know the mind of God?), I DO believe it.
You choose to believe something you know nothing about. What an
accomplishment.
>And that takes an act
> of faith, for me. It's miraculous, when you stop to think about it,
> indeed, even supernatural - if God can become a pillar of fire in the
> desert to lead Moses away from the pursuing Egyptians, then of course He
> has made His Creation to be something which in turn, is just as
> miraculous in its movement. One could say, too, that since the fall of
> humankind from grace, that the world is DE-volving, rather than
> E-volving. Why? Death, decay, species losing the battle and heading for
> extinction - some without "help" from humans (though not all, and for
> that I am sad-and my singular response is to recycle waste, etc and so
> forth and pray it is enough, while knowing that this present world of
> dying matter isn't going to last - but not wishing to rush it along,
> either).
Learn about run on sentences please, its not a sign of intellegence. 98% of
all species are extinct. Its part of evolution and reality. Death and decay
is exactly why you are here. It is whole necessary. It isn't bad. This
present world is finite and its resources are finite and when the resources
begin to dwindle and we continue to *go forth and multiply* then soon you
will know hell on earth. This is because the plan is not divine but natural
and follows natural law.
>> That is not speciation;
> > instead it is development of many organs and traits that didn't exist
> > before the Fall. I very much doubt that could entirely be explained
> > by degradation or "loss of information" as the creationists are trying
to
> > do.
>
> No, I don't think it's due to that, either: I believe that when the
> earth was cursed, that everything changed immediately - it was
> catastrophism at its inception, if you will.
> >
> >
> >>In the Genesis account of Creation, we see
> >>that each creature was created "according to its own kind," and from
> >>what I understand, that doesn't leave room for a dinosaur species to
> >>evolve into a bird, for example.
Do you even have a clue what *kind* is? Can you define the word?
> >
> >
> > So far no one knows what the biblical "kind" means.
>
> Someone else quoted the Scriptural references - **after their kind** are
> the key words. A jay will always be a jay and cannot interbreed with
> anything other than jays (witness the Blue Jay, Cyanocitta cristata,
> interbreeding with the Steller's Jay, Cyanocitta stelleri, in eastern
> Washington state, for example. They are different "jays" but they are
> still JAYS, members of the corvid family.)
>
>
> > It cannot be a biological species, because they have been observed to
> > evolve into another.
>
> Where? I see no indication of one species evolving into another with any
> great assurance anywhere in the fossil record. Only different species.
> No "missing links" between them. See reference to jays above.
> *"curiouser and curiouser," said Alice.*
All fossils are transitional. The gaps are quickly closing and will continue
to close.
Steve Zodiac
Charles P
> Do you actually know much about nature, or do you
> make it up as you go along?
With this particular thread, I've been making it up as I go along.
Then I sit back and enjoy the responses.
Robert Carroll
"Seppo Pietikainen" <s.pietika...@kolumbus.fi> wrote in message
news:bka202$qo136$1...@ID-137900.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Charles P wrote:
> > "gen2rev" <gen...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
> >
> >
> >>On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 02:19:33 +0000 (UTC), "Charles P"
> >><ch...@spammerssuck.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>Carnivores kill in order to survive. Take the big cats, for example.
> >>>Magnificent, highly intelligent animals that must eat meat. God
> >>>has taught them only to kill when they need food, not to kill for
> >>>sport, as the degenerate devil-inspired humans sometimes do.
> >>>A big cat will take you down fast and mercifully, the big teeth
> >>>will clamp hard on your windpipe, and you'll soon pass out.
> >>>Those cats are merciful and practical. Take a look at the wolf,
> >>>with his musical howl and family structured living. Wolves have
> >>>family values that are more advanced than humans, wolves take
> >>>care of their young and don't abandon either their children or
> >>>their mates, you don't find deadbeat wolf dads or divorced wolves.
> >>>Obviously, God taught these animals good living habits. Wolves
> >>>also kill quickly, they don't needlessly torture for pleasure, as
humans do.
> >>
> >>What about house cats that toy with mice before killing them?
> >
> >
> > House cats have been corrupted by fallen humans. A house cat could
> > never survive on its own in the wild, so house cats don't count.
> >
>
Not the lynx. They're missing.
Bob
>
> Seppo P.
>