SATAN TEMPTS US WITH EVIL THOUGHTS
Donna Kupp
It is important for you to know that you cannot keep the thought
from coming into your mind anymore than the spam that suddenly
appears on your computer screen. It is what you choose to do with
it that matters!
Satan tempts us with the thoughts that he puts into our minds.
When Jesus was tempted, Jesus overcame the temptation through
the enabling power of The Holy Spirit of God and by saying:
"It is written ....". Then, he chose to obey the Father.
THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND
MAN'S NATURE is made up of spirit, soul, body and mind:
"...may your SPIRIT, SOUL, AND BODY be kept
sound and blameless." 1 Thess 5:23
" ...be transformed by the renewing of your MIND."
Rom 12:2
A. THE BODY
is that part of man which includes the skin and bones,
the nerves, the five senses, and perceives physical
pleasure and pain.
B. THE SIN NATURE
is located in man and the powers of evil are able to
manipulate it in order to create temptations and lure us
into sin.
C. THE SOUL
is that part of man where the feelings, the emotions and
the desires (lusts) exist.
D. THE MIND
is that part of man which receives messages from the
body, soul, and spirit. It is there that we think, reason,
remember, and perceive the world and ourselves.
E. THE SPIRIT
is that part of man which chooses right or wrong. It is
the real personality, the house of self. The spirit is the
dwelling place of God's Spirit.
SIN is "transgression of the law", a voluntary breaking of a
known law of God. Desires and emotions may tempt us to
commit sin, but are not acts of sin in themselves. To
commit sin is to deliberately break God's law with full
knowledge and intent. Sin occurs the moment we choose to
break God's law, even if we lack opportunity.
By using those definitions, I am going to give an example of how
the SIN NATURE works through THE BODY, SOUL, and
MIND to tempt the SPIRIT of a person to commit adultery.
Satan tempts us through our SIN NATURE. During the
temptation, the SIN NATURE uses the natural functions
of the BODY AND SOUL to pressure the mind. For
example:
THE BODY pressures the MIND with physical
cravings, sexual excitement, etc. (Those pressures
are the way God created us --so they are not sin.)
THE SOUL pressures the MIND with emotions of
love, desire, etc. (Those pressures are the way God
created us --so they are not sin.)
THE SIN NATURE tempts the MIND to disobey God:
"Yes! ... Yes! ..." the tempter says: "Go ahead, God will
forgive you. "Ye shall not surely die."
Now the battle for the mind begins ....
THE HOLY SPIRIT comes to the MIND with the sword of
truth: "No! ... No! ... No!" It is written, "Thou Shalt Not
Commit Adultery."
THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVES POWER TO OBEY
Now, THE SPIRIT OF MAN must tell the MIND to either
obey God --or obey the devil.
What we choose determines our end.
The apostle Paul said: "For if ye live after the flesh, ye
shall die; but IF ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds
of the body, ye shall live." Romans 8:13
Harold and Donna Kupp
dk
http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
to lust after her hath committed adultery
with her already in his heart.
http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=1937
Strong's Number: 1937 eÍpiqumeÑw
Original Word Word Origin
eÍpiqumeÑw from (1909) and (2372)
Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
Epithumeo ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
Parts of Speech TDNT
Verb 3:168,339
Definition
to turn upon a thing
to have a desire for, long for, to desire
to lust after, covet
of those who seek things forbidden
Translated Words
KJV (16) - covet, 3; desire, 8; fain, 1; lust, 3; lust after, 1;
NAS (16) - covet, 2; coveted, 1; craved, 1; desire, 1; desired, 2;
desires, 1; gladly, 1; long, 3; longing, 1; lust, 2; sets its desire,
1;
vince garcia
>
> SATAN TEMPTS US WITH EVIL THOUGHTS
How can we know this woman is actually a servant of satan?
Paul gives us the answer:
2 cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve
through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the
simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.
2 cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of
light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed
as the MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS; whose end shall be according to their
works.
Donna Kupp, for those who do not know, is a demon-anointed woman
preaching a false gospel with a false Christ that denies virtually every
possible essential of the Christian faith.
Note here paul's words about satan-serving teachers such as her: they
will actually be "MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS"!!!!! Not antinomians,
teaching lawlessness and freedom to sin, but MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
teaching an apparently good-sounding Gospel that is actually ANOTHER
GOSPEL about ANOTHER JESUS!
Let us test Donna Kupp's own words against the time-tested doctrines of
the New Testament and the Christian church, and see if we can determine
whether she is a servant of God, or actually a minister of Satan!
1. First, Paul warns that a minister of Satan will teach "ANOTHER
JESUS."
While Donna Kupp just made a number of statements sound like something a
real Christian might make, we cannot make a judgment whether she is or
is not a true Christian based only on what she just posted here. We must
determine if she really teaches the same Jesus REAL Christians follow by
looking at statements she, herself, has made about Christ in the past,
that she may not throw out on a regular basis, because she knows it
reveals what she REALLY thinks about Christ.
So what does she actually say about the Jesus she follows, and
supposedly places faith in?
This...
>"In the beginning was Jesus
>
> and Jesus was with THE RULER,
>
> and Jesus was Ruler.
>
> The same was in the beginning with THE RULER."
>John was teaching that Jesus was our Ruler (our theos) and that
>Jesus was with the Father from the very beginning of creation.
>(Not that Jesus was one third of some mysterious and mind-
>boggling "Trinity" that no one had ever heard of.)
We can stop right there. Donna Kupp, denying the deity of Christ,
rewrites the Gospel of John in a manner that affirms that denial, so we
can either change all our Bibles to her new trenslation that "proves"
Jesus is NOT fully God, but some other sort of created lesser being, or
we can allow the sacred words of the apostle John to stand AS WRITTEN!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD
WAS GOD.
So we see her Jesus is ANOTHER JESUS that orthodox Protestants and
Evangelicals DO NOT believe in.
For US, Jesus is God in flesh, fully God and fully man, and 2nd Person
of the Trinity she goes on to mock and deny.
2. Next, Paul warns that a minister of Satan will teach or operate under
a "DIFFERENT SPIRIT".
Does Donna Kupp teach and receive anoining by the same Holy Spirit that
REAL Christians follow?
Judge for yourself by her own words.
> The concept that the Holy Spirit is God is based on a single verse in
> Acts (5:3) where it says that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit - and
> later it says that he lied to God.
> To conclude that the Holy Spirit is God on the basis of those verses is
> merely an interpretation which adds to what is actually written. Since
> the Spirit is the means of communciation between God and man, if you
> lie to the Spirit you are in effect lying to God. Are there any verses
> which actually say that the Holy Spirit is God?
> Not one!
> Jesus did not teach the Trinity, the apostles did not teach it, and it
> was not taught by church leaders for three hundred years after the
> death of Christ.
All REAL Christians believe not only in the deity of Christ, but also
the Godhood of the Holy Spirit. As we see from her own words, Donna
Kupp denies those two essentials of the faith, and proclaims the Holy
Spirit is only some nebulous "means of communication between God and
man"
So now we see she has fulfilled the SECOND warning of Paul--she has
A DIFFERENT SPIRIT than REAL Christians do.
By the way, her LIES about the history of the Trinity are instantly
refutable:
The deity of Christ was EXPLICITLY taught by Ignatius in the early 2nd
century
"To the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by
the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God"
"FOR OUR GOD, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s
plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit"
Letter to the Ephesians 1 110 AD
False teacher kupp also adds:
> There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
> being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
> was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
> Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to
the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their
disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in
the Holy Spirit
Irenaeus, before 200 AD
And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for
the unity is distributed in a TRINITY. Placed in order, the three are
the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition,
but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of
one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one
God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"
Tertullian "Against Praxeas" early 200s AD
For Scripture as much announces Christ AS ALSO GOD, as it announces God
himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as
moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it
does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of
man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been
accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he
is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For
as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who
is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed
to be God who is of God. . . . Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus
Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called
also God and the Son of God"
Novatian, Treatise on the Trinity 11 235 AD
And now the capstone to Kupp's historial and TEXTUAL illiteracy:
The Lord says: 'I and the Father are one.' And again of the Father and
Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'And these three are one'.
Cyprian --Treatise 1 on the unity of the Catholic Church, chapter 6,
early 3rd century, PROVING THE LEGITIMACY OF THE COMMA JOHANNEUM KUPP
(and other historical illiterates) SAY IS A FRAUD.
3. The minister of Satan will also teach "ANOTHER GOSPEL."
Does Donna Kupp uphold the CHRISTIAN gospel? We've already seen she
denies and perverts the nature of Jesus Himself and the precious Holy
Spirit. But what is her actual gospel message? She talks about
obedience, and making Jesus Lord...but what does she really believe
about sin, justification, and sanctification? Does she ever lay out her
beliefs in clear language so the body of Christ can see and judge
whether
she is or is not a fellow believer?
Yes!
Again, these are her own words:
>To be saved is the first step in the process of salvation. Those who
>are saved do not have eternal life -
Did you get that? THOSE WHO ARE SAVED ___DO NOT___HAVE ETERNAL LIFE!!!
LET'S CONTRAST THAT WITH SCRIPTURE:
jn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, HATH eternal life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.
1 jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name
of the Son of God; that YE MAY KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that
ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
> "If one who is born of God has truly repented of committing sin
> (chosen to cease from sin) and then deliberately commits sin he has
> despised the Holy Spirit, just as the OT the Israelites despised the
> Law of God. It is blasphemy!"
> "When we are converted all past sins are forgiven. After a person is
> born-again, only sins of ignorance are forgiven. If a person sins
> with knowledge and intent after that time, they have blasphemed
> the Holy Spirit and there is no more sacrifice for sin. See Hebrews
> 6:1-8; Hebrews 10:26-31."
LET'S CONTRAST THAT WITH SCRIPTURE:
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves
are ALSO FOUND SINNERS, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God
forbid.
Apparently, paul understood that even those justified in Christ STILL
SINNED!
Are we sure? Well, let's again test the sewage doctrine of harold and
donna kupp by paul's own words, written in the last months of his life:
1 tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I AM
CHIEF.
Wait a minute--I thought Donna said any Christian who willingly commits
even ONE SIN is eternally damned!
Apparently paul did not realize this when he acknowledged he was the
WORST of sinners in 67 AD when he wrote this, 30+ years after finding
Christ! Thus, he must have been guilty of blaspheming the spirit
according to false teachers harold and donna kupp
What else did Paul have to say about whether Christians do or do not
commit sin in romans 7?
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:
for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I
find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: BUT THE EVIL WHICH I WOULD NOT,
____THAT I DO___.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin
that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with
me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my
mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my
members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this
death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I
myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Does THAT sound like a man who has reached the state of sinless
perfection like Donna Kupp, who claims any sin she commits is 100%
accidental and unintentional??????
And this is her ultimate blasphemy regarding the blood of Christ...
> Blood of Christ covers: 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light,
> as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the
> blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (Only sins
> of ignorance)
Notice how donna kupp added the words "Only sins of ignorance" to
pervert John's words? Just as she did with the powerful passage in John
1:1, she rejects the message and inserts her own heretical words flat
out CONTRADICTING what was actually written! John says Christ's blood
cleanses us from ALL sin; Donna adds words to change it to all
UNINTENTIONAL sins, making the blood of Christ LIMITED in its ability to
atone for sin.
Kupp also has missed what Jesus said about how imperfect His followers
will always be:
Luke 4:4 And FORGIVE US OUR SINS; for we also forgive every one that is
indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from
evil.
Meanwhile, THIS is God's true message of salvation:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become
the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
And while Donna Kupp blasphemes the gospel by claiming we keep--and
actually earn--our salvation through keeping the 10 commandments
perfectly, here is what the SCRIPTURE says about how we stay in right
standing security with God:
1 peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a
lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not
away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 WHO ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD __THROUGH FAITH__ UNTO SALVATION
ready to be revealed in the last time.
So now we see her "gospel" IS NOT the gospel of the New testament. It is
a false gospel that...
A. Requires Bible verses to be rewritten in a heretical manner.
B. Requires adding a clarification to Scripture that TOTALLY overturns
what the Scripture actually SAYS.
C. Must deny the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Requires remaining in a state of salvation by keeping the 10
commandments PERFECTLY, or else the person is now damned without
possibility of repentance.
D. Blasphemes and limits the atoning power of Christ's blood to only
"Only sins of ignorance."
4. Paul says the MINISTER OF SATAN will actually appear to be a MINISTER
OF RIGHTEOUSNESS! They will LOOK AND SOUND--not like libertines and
"sloppy agape" Christians teaching licentiousness and antinomianism
becaause they "aren't under the law", but LIKE THEY ARE TEACHING GOSPEL
TRUTH AND CALLING PEOPLE TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF OBEYING COMMANDMENTS!
That is what makes them so deceptive. They are serpents in the guise of
sheep, preaching righteous living and "keeping God's holy law" while in
their hearts is satan himself, drawing people away from TRUE
righteousness, to a perverted notion of it based on keeping
commandments!
Take a look at Donna Kupp's deceptive posts, including this one. Every
one touts the keeping of biblical commandments, threatens people with
damnation for failing to keep biblical commadnments, and threatenes them
with damnation if anyone should ever--EVEN ONE TIME--willingly BREAK a
biblical commandment.
So Kupp APPEARS to be preaching the righteousness of "keeping God's holy
commandments"...yet she does it in a way that is an UTTER PERVERSION of
the gospel of grace, and comes right from the mouth of satan speaking
good things, and making her LOOK like a minister of righetousness.
So, summing it up, Paul says that a minister of satan will...
Preach another Jesus...
Preach under another spirit...
And preach a different gospel...
While appearing to be a minister of righteousness while doing so!
Donna Kupp meets ALL FOUR CRITERIA.
She is a beguiling minister of Satan, not God! The "Jesus" she follows
is a demon spirit, and the "Yahweh" she represents is actually SATAN.
I am dead to the law by the crucified body of Christ. Are you?
John Fraser
"Donna Kupp" <dk...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:e2b82018-c495-4e98...@28g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> SATAN TEMPTS US WITH EVIL THOUGHTS
>
> It is important for you to know that you cannot keep the thought
> from coming into your mind anymore than the spam that suddenly
> appears on your computer screen. It is what you choose to do with
> it that matters!
>
> Satan tempts us with the thoughts that he puts into our minds.
> When Jesus was tempted, Jesus overcame the temptation through
> the enabling power of The Holy Spirit of God and by saying:
> "It is written ....". Then, he chose to obey the Father.
What really occurred on that day? Satan tried to get Jesus to take his
mind off God, off his mission, and focus on what he could attain for
himself. In a nutshell, he was promised the world would literally be his
for the taking. The point would be to distract Jesus from what the Father
had willed for him, and his purpose. It's that simple.
Precisely, sin is our failure to follow God's will. Thus, we fall short
in his expectations for us. And, this is exactly all that Satan has to
achieve once and we're ruined for eternity if we do not change our attitude.
Great Sage Itchy
<e2b82018-c495-4e98...@28g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
> Satan tempts us with the thoughts that he puts into our minds.
Sure, blame Satan. Don't own up to those thoughts!
Your so-called "religion" has provided the perfect scapegoat!
"I didn't do it". "It was Satan!"
Donna Kupp
A good example of willful sin would be Adultery, which is an act
of sin that occurs when a person chooses to set aside God's law and
have sexual relations outside of marriage. Please take note that to
commit Adultery is an act of sin, but the lust which precedes the
decision is NOT AN ACT OF SIN, rather it is the manifestation of
the Sin nature.
Jesus said:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman TO lust
after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
Matthew 5:28
Jesus was saying this: "The Pharisees have told you that you are
committing Adultery only if you actually have relations with a woman,
but I say to you that it is the intent of your heart that God judges.
If you look upon a woman lusting to have sex with her, and the only
thing stopping you is the lack of opportunity, then you have already
broken God's law in your heart."
The word TO means: "indicating intention, purpose or end."
(Websters) If a man is looking on a woman with the intention of
lusting after her then he certainly is not trying to avoid lust! He
may be sure that his heart is still set upon evil. He may also be sure
that if he would commit Adultery given the opportunity, he is not
truly Born-Again because John says that "Whosoever is born of
God doth not commit sin." (1 John 3:9)
Looking upon someone TO lust after them is a sin, but the Devil
wants Christians to think that just looking at the opposite sex and
feeling desire is also an act of sin. That is not true! It is simply
the
first stage of temptation. Temptation to commit sin does come
through lustful desires, fantasies, etc. but those lusts are not in
themselves an act of sin.
If lust (desire) itself is an act of sin then Jesus committed sin
because the Bible says that "every man is TEMPTED when he is
drawn away in his own LUST," and that Jesus was TEMPTED like
as we are,".
Being tempted is not an act of sin....
Harold Kupp
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
the lust which precedes the
decision is NOT AN ACT OF SIN, rather it is the manifestation of
the Sin nature. "
"
Ro 7:7 - What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay,
I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known
lust,
except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Jim
Isa 64:6 - But we are all as an unclean thing,
and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;
and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities,
like the wind, have taken us away.
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and
the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee,
that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or
even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as
his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be
merciful to me a sinner.
14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than
the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he
that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Jim
Matt 23
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Donna Kupp
If lust (desire) itself is an act of sin then Jesus committed sin
vince garcia
But "going with the thought"--even for a moment...a split second--IS
adultery. And every person here with hormones left in him is guilty of
that sin SINCE coming to Christ.
Including YOU, kupp.
Of course, if you'd like to publically deny you've never so much as had
one lustful thought about a person you aren't married to in the decades
you claim to have been a REAL Christian, in comparison to the rest of us
who denounce the false gospel you believe, feel free to state that below
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
- The devil tried to temp Jesus and failed,
just as you are trying to temp the Church
into a false gospel of works.
Jim
Mr 13:22 - For false Christs and false prophets shall rise,
and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce,
if it were possible, even the elect.
Donna Kupp
We have a personal responsibility for the choices that we
make. Otherwise, God would be blamed for all the wicked
deeds of the many so-called Christians.
We must choose whom we will obey ...
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants
to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?"
Rom 6:16 (KJV)
When we are tempted to sin, WE MUST CHOOSE TO
OBEY GOD. Then, the Holy Spirit enables us to do so.
Please soberly consider this warning of the apostle Paul
to the Christians at Rome:
"For if you live according to the flesh you will die,
BUT
if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the
body you will live." Romans 8:13.
Question: Who are those who "live according to the flesh"?
Answer: "For those who live according to the flesh SET THEIR
MINDS on the things of the flesh." Rom 8:5
Question: How do you recognize a mind that is set on the flesh?
Answer: "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God;
IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD'S LAW." Rom 8:7
Question: What will happen to the mind that is set on the flesh
and will not submit to God's law?
Answer: " To set the mind on the flesh IS DEATH." Rom 8:6
Here is a summary of what Paul said about carnal Christians:
Those who live according to the flesh are those who do not submit
to God's law and their end is eternal DEATH!
BUT
"If by the Spirit you [Carnal Christians] put to death the deeds
of the body you will live." Romans 8:13
Paul said: If by the power of the Holy Spirit, The Carnal Christian
will put to death (stop completely) the sinful deeds of the body his
end will be eternal life.
As we examine those words of Paul, we must acknowledge that the
carnal Christian will perish on judgement day. Paul offered no
hope to the Christian who did not cease from sin.
Donna Kupp
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
Reprinted from John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress, pp. 55-57.
Editorial Note: The Puritans seemed to be united in following the
Reformers' interpretation of Romans 7. And if anyone thinks that this
interpretation encourages laxity in sanctification, let it be
remembered that the Puritans made a name for themselves in being some
of the most rigorous and thorough exponents of sanctification which
the world has ever seen.
In his famous allegory, The Pilgrim's Progress, John Bunyan includes a
character named Faithful. This Christian pilgrim gives a beautiful
insight into Romans 7:14-25. Faithful obeys his conscience and the law
of God. His victory over the "old man" is commendable—typical of a
Christian successfully overcoming temptation. Yet Bunyan illustrates
how such obedience cannot of itself satisfy the law.
Christian. Well, neighbour Faithful, said Christian. . . Tell me now,
what you have met with in the way as you came; for I know you have met
with some things, or else it may be writ for a wonder.
Faithful. I escaped the Slough that I perceived you fell into, and got
up to the gate without that danger.
Christian. Did you meet with no assault as you came?
Faithful. When I came to the foot of the hill called Difficulty, I met
with a very aged man, who asked me what I was, and whither bound. I
told him that I am a pilgrim, going to the Celestial City. Then said
the old man, Thou lookest like an honest fellow; wilt thou be content
to dwell with me for the wages that I shall give thee? Then I asked
him his name, and where he dwelt. He said his name was Adam the First,
and that he dwelt in the town of Deceit. I asked him then, what was
his work, and what the wages that he would give. He told me, that his
work was many delights; and his wages, that I should be his heir at
last. I further asked him, what house he kept, and what other servants
he had. So he told me, that his house was maintained with all the
dainties in the world; and that his servants were those of his own
begetting. Then I asked how many children he had. He said that he had
but three daughters; the Lust of Flesh, the Lust of the Eyes, and the
Pride of Life, and that I should marry them all if I would. Then I
asked how long time he would have me live with him? And he told me, As
long as he lived himself.
Christian. Well, and what conclusion came the old man and you to, at
last?
Faithful. Why, at first, I found myself somewhat inclinable to go with
the man, for I thought he spake very fair; but looking in his
forehead, as I talked with him, I saw there written, "Put off the old
man with his deeds."
Christian. And how then?
Faithful. Then it came burning hot in my mind, whatever he said, and
however he flattered, when he got me home to his house, he would sell
me for a slave. So I bid him forbear to talk, for I would not come
near the door of the house. Then he reviled me, and told me, that he
would send such a one after me, that should make my way bitter to my
soul. So I turned to go away from him; but just as I turned myself to
go thence, I felt him take hold of my flesh and give me such a deadly
twitch back that I thought he had pulled part of me after himself.
This made me cry, "O wretched man!" So I went on my way up the hill.
Now when I had got about half way up, I looked behind, and saw one
coming after me, swift as the wind; so he overtook me just about the
place where the settle stands.
Christian. Just there, said Christian, did I sit down to rest me; but
being overcome with sleep, I there lost this roll out of my bosom.
Faithful. But, good brother, hear me out. So soon as the man overtook
me, he was but a word and a blow, for down he knocked me, and laid me
for dead. But when I was a little come to myself again, I asked him
wherefore he served me so. He said, because of my secret inclining to
Adam the First: and with that he struck me another deadly blow on the
breast, and beat me down backward; so I lay at his foot as dead as
before. So, when I came to myself again, I cried him mercy; but he
said, I know not how to show mercy; and with that knocked me down
again. He had doubtless made an end of me, but that one came by, and
bid him forbear.
Christian. Who was that that bid him forbear?
Faithful. I did not know him at first, but as he went by, I perceived
the holes in his hands, and in his side then I concluded that he was
our Lord. So I went up the hill.
Christian. That man that overtook you was Moses. He spareth none,
neither knoweth he how to show mercy to those that transgress his law.
http://www.presenttruthmag.com/archive/XXXI/31-3.htm
Donna Kupp
John Bunyan, in his allegory "The Pilgrim's Progress", (the most
published book in history after the Bible) which described the
process of salvation, wrote of the awful scene in which "Christian"
was shown the "man in the iron cage" who was born of God
and yet turned back to sin.
Bunyan wrote:
"Now, said Christian, let me go hence. Nay, stay, said the
Interpreter,
till I have shewed thee a little more, and after that thou shalt go
on
thy way.
So he took him by the hand again, and led him into a very dark room,
where there sat a man in an iron cage. Now the man, to look on,
seemed very sad; he sat with his eyeslooking down to the ground, his
hands folded together, and he sighed as if he would break his heart.
Then said Christian,
What means this? At which the Interpreter bid him talk with the
man. Then said Christian to the man, What art thou? The man answered,
I am what I was not once.
Chr. What wast thou once?
Man. The man said, I was once a fair and flourishing professor,both in
mine own eyes, and also in the eyes of others; I once was, as I
thought,
fair for the Celestial City, and had then even joy at the thoughts
that
I should get thither.
Chr. Well, but what art thou now?
Man. I am now a man of despair, and am shut up in it, as in this iron
cage. I cannot get out. Oh, now I cannot!
Chr. But how camest thou in this condition?
Man. I left off to watch and be sober. I laid the reins,
upon the neck of my lusts; I sinned against the light of the Word
and the goodness of God; I have grieved the Spirit, and he is gone; I
tempted the devil, and he is come to me; I have provoked God to anger,
and he has left me: I have so hardened my heart, that I cannot repent.
Then said Christian to the Interpreter, But is there no hope forsuch a
man as this? Ask him, said the Interpreter. Nay, said Christian,
pray, Sir, do you.
Inter. Then said the Interpreter, Is there no hope, but you must
be kept in the iron cage of despair?
Man. No, none at all.
Inter. Why, the Son of the Blessed is very pitiful.
Man. I have crucified him to myself afresh; I have despised his
person;
I have despised his righteousness; I have counted his blood an unholy
thing; I have done despite to the Spirit of grace. (Heb 10:26f)
Therefore I
have shut myself out of all the promises, and there now remains to me
nothing but threatenings, dreadful threatenings, fearful threatenings,
of certain judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour me as an
adversary.
Inter. For what did you bring yourself into this condition?
Man. For the lusts, pleasures, and profits of this world; in the
enjoyment of which I did then promise myself much delight;
but now every one of those things also bite me, and gnaw me like a
burning worm.
Inter. But canst thou not now repent and turn?
Man. God hath denied me repentance. His Word gives me no
encouragement to believe; yea, himself hath shut me up in this
iron cage; nor can all the men in the world let me out. O eternity,
eternity! how shall I grapple with the misery that I must meet with in
eternity!
Inter. Then said the Interpreter to Christian, Let this man's misery
be
remembered by thee, and be an everlasting caution to thee.
Chr. Well, said Christian, this is fearful! God help me to watch and
be
sober, and to pray that I may shun the cause of this man's misery!
That is why Paul warned: "Work out your salvation with
fear and trembling".
Yes , many will say Lord' Lord', and still be lost.
If you listen to modern Christianity these ideas seem to be heresy.
Yet
if one reads the 2nd century church fathers one will quickly conclude
that one must cease from transgression of the law in order to be
"saved"
For example:
Clement of Rome to the Corinthians:
"...so surely shall he, who with lowliness of mind and instant in
gentleness hath without regretfulness performed the ordinances and
commandments that are given by God, be enrolled and have a name among
the number of them THAT ARE SAVED through Jesus Christ. (p.38)
An Ancient Homily (2nd epistle of Clement)
"But wherein do we confess Him? [Romans 10:10] When we do that which
He saith AND ARE NOT DISOBEDIENT TO HIS COMMANDMENTS, and
not only honor Him with our lips, but with our whole heart and with
our
Whole mind..." (p.45)
"For, if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; but if
otherwise, then nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment, IF
WE
SHOULD DISOBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS." (p.46)
"Wherefore brethren, if we shall have done the will of the Father
and
kept the flesh pure and guarded the commandments of the Lord, we shall
receive LIFE ETERNAL." (p.47)
Epistle of Polycarp
"Now He that raised Him from the dead will raise us up also; IF WE
DO
HIS WILL AND WALK IN HIS COMMANDMENTS...abstaining from all
unrighteousness". (p.95)
The Apostolic Fathers, J.B. Lightfoot, Baker
It would be hard for these people to get a job in
the seminaries of today, wouldn't it?
The modern teaching of Once Saved Always Saved pleases the
ear, but will cause many to follow the man of sin.
Harold and Donna Kupp
vince garcia
speaks?
vince garcia
>
> YOU MUST CHOOSE WHOM YOU WILL OBEY!
>
> We have a personal responsibility for the choices that we
> make. Otherwise, God would be blamed for all the wicked
> deeds of the many so-called Christians.
>
> We must choose whom we will obey ...
>
It takes more than quoting scripture, and demanding people keep the 10
comamnments, to represent the REAL gospel and the REAL Bible.
Does Donna Kupp represent the true Bible? See for yourself by comparing
IT to her own words...
The Bible:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD
WAS GOD.
Donna Kupp:
>"In the beginning was Jesus
>
> and Jesus was with THE RULER,
>
> and Jesus was Ruler.
>
> The same was in the beginning with THE RULER."
>John was teaching that Jesus was our Ruler (our theos) and that
>Jesus was with the Father from the very beginning of creation.
>(Not that Jesus was one third of some mysterious and mind-
>boggling "Trinity" that no one had ever heard of.)
The Bible:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship
one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us
from __ALL__ sin.
Donna Kupp:
> But if we walk in the light,
> as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the
> blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (Only sins
> of ignorance)
The Bible:
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, HATH eternal life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in
thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth
confession is made unto salvation.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name
of the Son of God; that YE MAY KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that
ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Donna Kupp:
>To be saved is the first step in the process of salvation. Those who
>are saved do not have eternal life -
>"The strategy of Satan in the modern church has been to make people
>believe that they have eternal life the moment they accept Jesus as
>their personal Savior."
Which will YOU believe? The Bible...or Donna Kupp?
As John says, THIS is how we are to treat people like the kupps who
teach these heresies:
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath
not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the
Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not
into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
Exceeding Mercy God Christ his Poor Servant John (Penguin Classics)
[Paperback]
John Bunyan (Author)
Product Description
Composed and published while John Bunyan (1628-1688) was in prison for
his religious principles, "Grace Abounding" is an extraordinary
spiritual autobiography. It was written in an age when religious
radicalism was regarded as socially subversive, and is a haunting,
often harrowing and ultimately inspiring account of his inner life:
his long struggle with and eventual triumph over doubt and despair,
his spiritual regeneration and his subsequent emergence as a preacher
and writer of great imaginative power. God and Satan are the chief
protagonists in Bunyan's drama, existing not as theological concepts
but as terrifyingly immediate adversaries in the competition for his
soul. Yet he finds his spiritual defences in the Bible, and "Grace
Abounding" charts his passionate and imaginative involvement with this
ultimate source of wisdom.
From the Back Cover
Grace Abounding to SinnersIn this powerful account, John Bunyan tells
how he was changed from the most notorious rebel in his village to a
great man of faith.Through his testimony, you will:Be sure of
salvationExperience God's grace that covers all sinRecognize God's
voice and unchanging loveAvoid the devil's trapsDiscover that the lost
in sin can be saved by graceBunyan's struggle to gain admittance into
the kingdom of God will give you the courage and power for your own
journey, for the grace he received is available to everyone--even to
the chief of sinners!
http://www.amazon.com/Grace-Abounding-Chief-Sinners-Exceeding/dp/0140432809
vince garcia
>
Since Donna Kupp likes to quote Patristic writings, let's see what the
TRINITARIAN patristic writers have to say about the trinity:
Donna Kupp:
"In the beginning was Jesus
>
> and Jesus was with THE RULER,
>
> and Jesus was Ruler.
>
> The same was in the beginning with THE RULER."
>John was teaching that Jesus was our Ruler (our theos) and that
>Jesus was with the Father from the very beginning of creation.
>(Not that Jesus was one third of some mysterious and mind-
>boggling "Trinity" that no one had ever heard of.)
>
> Jesus did not teach the Trinity, the apostles did not teach it, and it
> was not taught by church leaders for three hundred years after the
> death of Christ.
Sheesh! Kupp's lack of even rudimentary education in the Bible and
Christian history is unfathomable! And This ststement is yet another
example of her making illiterate, or lying, statements that can easily
deceive someone who isn't up on their own knowledge of scripture and
history.
Irenaeus, before 200 AD
So there you have it. Here is the level of incompetence displayed by
this woman presuming to come and set herself up as a teacher. She says:
> There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
> being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
> was
> not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
> Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
Yet anyone who's actually studied church history--rather than relying on
repeating the ignorance of other biblical and historical illiterates
like herself--immediately realizes this woman has no credibility, no
legitimate theological education, and no right to open her mouth to
exposit the scriptures.
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
<vggar...@ix.netcom.com> spake thusly:
> How can we know this woman is actually a servant
> of satan when she speaks?
"For they themselves having been circumcised do not even
keep [the] Law, but they desire you to be circumcised so
that they may boast in your flesh." - Galatians 6:13
Romans 9:31-32
31) but Israel following after a Law of righteousness did not
arrive at a Law of righteousness?
32) Why? Because [it was] not of faith, but as of works of Law.
For they stumbled at the Stone-of-stumbling,
> Paul gives us the answer:
>
> 2 cor 11:3-4
And we can do even better than that, my brother! :)
Galatians 2:15-16,19-21
15) We, Jews by nature and not sinners of the nations,
16) knowing that a man is not justified by works of Law,
but that [it is] through faith [in] Jesus Christ (we also
believed into Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by
faith [in] Christ and not by works of Law, because all
flesh will not be justified by works of Law).
19) For through Law I died to Law, that I might live to God.
20a) I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; [yet]
no longer I, but Christ lives in me.
21) I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness
[is] through Law, then Christ died without cause.
Galatians 3:9-19
9) So that those of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.
10) For as many as are out of works of Law, [these] are under
a curse. For it has been written, Cursed [is] everyone who
does not continue in all the things having been written in
the book of the Law, to do them.
11) And that no one is justified by Law before God [is] clear
because, The just shall live by faith.
12) But the Law is not of faith, but, The man doing these
things shall live in them.
13) Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having
become a curse for us; for it has been written, Cursed [is]
everyone having been hung on a tree;
14) that the blessing of Abraham might be to the nations
in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the
Spirit through faith.
15) Brothers, I speak according to man, a covenant having
been ratified, even [among] mankind, no one sets aside or
adds to [it].
16) But the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his Seed
(it does not say, And to seeds, as of many, but as of one, And
to your Seed, which is Christ).
17) And I say this, A covenant having been ratified before to Christ
by God, [the] Law coming into being four hundred and thirty years
after, does not annul the promise, so as to abolish [it].
18) For if the inheritance [is] of Law, [it is] no more of promise;
but God has given [it] to Abraham through promise.
19) Why the Law then? It was for the sake of transgressions,
until the Seed should come, to whom it had been promised,
being ordained through angels in a mediator's hand.
Galatians 5:1-4
1) Then stand firm in the freedom with which Christ made us
free and do not be held again with a yoke of slavery [the Law].
2) Behold, I, Paul, say to you that if you are circumcised,
Christ will profit you nothing.
3) And I testify again to every man being circumcised,
that he is a debtor to do all the Law,
4) [you] whoever are justified by Law, you were severed
from Christ; you fell from grace.
Galatians 5:16-18
16) But I say, Walk in [the] Spirit, and you will not fulfill
[the] lust of [the] flesh.
17) For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit
against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another;
lest whatever you may will, these things you do.
18) But if you are led by [the] Spirit, you are not under Law.
Romans 3:20-23,27-28
20) Because by works of Law not one of all flesh will be
justified before Him, for through Law [is] full knowledge
of sin.
21) But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart
from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22) even the righteousness of God through faith of Jesus Christ
toward all and upon all those believing; for there is no difference,
23) for all sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
27) Then where [is] the boasting? It was excluded. Through
what law? Of works? No, but through a Law of faith.
28) Then we conclude a man to be justified by faith without
works of Law.
Romans 4:13-14
13) For the promise [was] not through Law to Abraham,
or to his seed, [for] him to be the heir of the world,
but through a righteousness of faith.
14) For if those of Law [are] heirs, faith has been made
of no effect, and the promise has been annulled.
"For your sin shall not lord it over you, for you are not
under Law, but under grace." - Romans 6:14
Romans 7:1-6
1) Or are you ignorant, brothers, (for I speak to those
knowing Law), that the Law lords it over the man for
as long a time as he lives?
2) For the married woman was bound by Law to the
living husband; but if the husband dies, she is set free
from the Law of the husband.
3) So then, [if] the husband [is] living, she will be called
an adulteress if she becomes another man's. But if the
husband dies, she is free from the Law, [so as for] her
not to be an adulteress [by] becoming another man's.
4) So that, my brothers, you also were made dead to
the Law through the body of Christ, for you to become
Another's, to [the One] raised from [the] dead, so that
we may bear fruit to God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin
were working in our members through the Law for
the bearing of fruit unto death.
6) But now we have been set free from the Law, having
died [to that] in which we were held, so as [for] us to
serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] oldness of letter.
Romans 8:2-3
2) For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus set me free
from the law of sin and of death.
3) For the Law [being] powerless, in that it was weak through
the flesh, God sending His own Son in [the] likeness of sinful
flesh, and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh,
Romans 9:31-32
31) but Israel following after a Law of righteousness did not
arrive at a Law of righteousness?
32) Why? Because [it was] not of faith, but as of works of Law.
For they stumbled at the Stone-of-stumbling,
"For Christ [is] the end of Law for righteousness to everyone
that believes." - Romans 10:4
--
Pastor Dave
"If you want to see what children can do, you must stop
giving them things." - Norman Douglas
vince garcia
amen! amen! amen! and I say it again, AMEN!
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
<vggar...@ix.netcom.com> spake thusly:
> Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> vince garcia spake thusly:
> Amen! Amen! Amen! And I say it again, AMEN!
Well, I guess all I can say to that is; "Amen!" <lol!> :)
--
Pastor Dave
The Last Days were in the first century:
"And saying, Repent ye: for the Kingdom of Heaven
is AT HAND." - Matthew 3:2
Donna Kupp
"They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD:
but such as are UPRIGHT IN THEIR WAY are his delight."
Proverbs 11:20
Donna Kupp
Donna Kupp
The man is DECEIVED
Donna Kupp
I am sorry for the previous incomplete post. It should read as
follows:
The man is deceived if he is a hearer, and not a DOER of the Word of
God:
“But be ye DOERS OF THE WORD, and not hearers only, deceiving
your own selves.” James 1:22
Those words of James will give you discernment about who is deceived.
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
The man is deceived if he is a hearer, and not a DOER of the Word of
God:
“But be ye DOERS OF THE WORD, and not hearers only, deceiving
your own selves.” James 1:22
Those words of James will give you discernment about who is deceived.
Donna Kupp
Mark 10
17And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running,
and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I
may inherit eternal life?
18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none
good but one, that is, God.
19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill,
Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy
father and mother.
20And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I
observed from my youth.
21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing
thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the
poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the
cross, and follow me.
22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had
great possessions.
There are some who talk the talk but don't walk the walk, here is one
who walked the walk.
Anthony was born at Coma, near Heracleopolis Magna in Fayum, about
the middle of the third century. He was the son of well-to-do parents,
and on their death, in his twentieth year, he inherited their
possessions. He had a desire to imitate the life of the Apostles and
the early Christians, and one day, on hearing in the church the Gospel
words, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell all thou hast", he
received them as spoken to himself, disposed of all his property and
goods, and devoted himself exclusively to religious exercises.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01553d.htm
Jim
Jas 4:11 -Speak not evil one of another, brethren.
He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his
brother,
speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if
thou judge the law,
thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
vince garcia
>
> Dear Reader,
>
> "They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD:
> but such as are UPRIGHT IN THEIR WAY are his delight."
> Proverbs 11:20
>
> Donna Kupp
>
How can we know this woman is actually a servant of satan when she
speaks?
Paul gives us the answer:
2 cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve
vince garcia
>
> Dear Reader,
>
> The man is DECEIVED
Donna Kupp wrote:
>
>
> Friend, if you call Jesus Lord, please listen to what He said
> to the man who asked Him this question: "What must I do
> to inherit eternal life?" Jesus replied:
>
> "If thou wilt enter into life,
> KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS."
> Matthew 19:17
All false Christian cults (including many Messianic Jews) shipwreck on
this verse, wrongly thinking that Jesus intends to teach, "Keep the
commandments to go to heaven," when He is really showing that no one
will gain heaven by keeping commandments, because even the best man will
always fall short of God's actual standard of righteousness (Matt.
5:27-30). This man, in fact, was knee deep in idolatry, violating the
first, and most important, commandment by having his wealth before God
in his heart.
But leaving that aside, did you notice Donna Kupp stopped at that verse,
then pulled a verse out of the Old Testament to add to THIS verse
instead of finishing up with Jesus' actual clarification of what His
words in verse 17 meant?
Do you know why?
HERE is why:
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou
shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear
false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself.
Notice what was left out the Kupp had to add in BECAUSE JESUS NEVER SAID
IT?
>
> Did the Son of God lie to that man? I think not! Now the
> question is: "Do you keep His Commandments?" ...How
> about this one:
>
> "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy ...
> the SEVENTH DAY is the Sabbath of the Lord thy
> God: in it thou shalt not do any work."
> Exodus 20:8-10
Not ONE WORD...not ONE ALLUSION by Jesus to the sabbath whatsoever. Yet
Donna Kupp, knee deep in sabbatarian heresy, appendages a verse in the
law about keeping the sabbath to OVERRIDE AND CONTRADICT what JESUS goes
on to explain as His meaning.
Apparently, Jesus wasn't smart enough to know what He meant--He needed
Donna Kupp to navigate us away from the next two verses that explian the
statement by pulling a verse out of nowhere to add to His words to show
us what He REALLY meant.
But it doesn't end there with Kupp.
> "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
> upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
> That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood,
> and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which
> if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."
> Acts:15:28-29 (KJV)
>
> Verses like that cannot cancel a holy Commandment of
> God.
Right here, just as she did with overriding Jesus' authority and words,
Kupp overrides the authority of the Holy Spirit as well!
The issue setteled in Acts 15 dealt with whether Gentile believers had
to keep the law of moses, which includes circumcision, sabbath, and
dietary laws.
The answer was:
> "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
> upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
> That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood,
> and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which
> if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."
That ends the debate. The Holy Spirit says "NO GREATER BURDEN"
Pwerhaps she missed that, so let me say it again. The Holy Spirit says
"NO GREATER BURDEN" than the "necessary things", consisting of:
abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things
strangled, and from fornication.
That's not my opinion. That's not my paraphrase. That's not my
speculation. That's not my doctrinal prejudice. It is the Third Person
of the Trinity (a concept Kupp mocks), saying THIS ENDS IT. "NO" greater
burden than these simple admonitions is REQUIRED of Gentile believers in
Christ.
And that means the Holy Spirit--not I--declares we ARE NOT required to
keep the sabbath Kupp places her security in.
The Spirit didn't say, "No more than these--PLUS the 10 comamdnemnts..."
"No more than these--PLUS the sabbath..."
"No more than these--PLUS the torah..."
"no greater burden than these necessary things"--PERIOD!!!!!!!!
Why did the Spirit not include some POSITIVE commandments here, but only
negative ones? Because He knew NEGATIVE comamndments could NEVER be
misunderstood as some sort of basis for earning or keeping salvation
through righteous living.
Had He upheld ANY positive comamdnments--including the
abbath--invariably many Gentiles would have come to place their faith in
the fact they were doing this or that, and thus they're ok.
...Just as Donna Kupp does with her sabbatarianism and legalism
So when the Holy Spirit says "NO GREATER BURDEN", but Donna Kupp
contradicts that and adds in the requirements of the jewish sabbath--one
of the two is lying.
One of the two is speaking the doctrine of the Father of Lies.
Either the Holy Spirit is lying when He says "NO GREATER BURDEN", or
Donna Kupp is lying when she claims the Holy Spirit really meant, "No
greater burden but those admontions, plus the 10 comamdnments,
ESPECIALLY the sabbath!"
So I ask: Which is the liar? The Holy Spirit or Donna Kupp?
vince garcia
>
> The concept that the Holy Spirit is God is based on a single verse in
> Acts (5:3) where it says that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit - and > later it says that he lied to God.
Wrong. It is NOT based on a "single verse". Again, you've been exposed
as a LIAR
> To conclude that the Holy Spirit is God on the basis of those verses is > merely an interpretation which adds to what is actually written. Since > the Spirit is the means of communciation between God and man, if you > lie to the Spirit you are in effect lying to God. Are there any verses > which actually say that the Holy Spirit is God?
Absolutely. Just as there are verses that say JESUS is God!
> Not one!
wrong.
And after you publically acknolwledge YOUR LIES about the history of the
Trinity doctrine, I will be glad to give you some. BUT FIRST I WANT YOU
TO ADMIT YOUR LIES, WHICH I REPOST BELOW:
"In the beginning was Jesus
>
> and Jesus was with THE RULER,
>
> and Jesus was Ruler.
>
> The same was in the beginning with THE RULER."
>John was teaching that Jesus was our Ruler (our theos) and that
>Jesus was with the Father from the very beginning of creation.
>(Not that Jesus was one third of some mysterious and mind-
>boggling "Trinity" that no one had ever heard of.)
>
> Jesus did not teach the Trinity, the apostles did not teach it, and it
> was not taught by church leaders for three hundred years after the
> death of Christ.
Sheesh! Kupp's lack of even rudimentary education in the Bible and
Christian history is unfathomable! And This ststement is yet another
example of her making illiterate, or lying, statements that can easily
deceive someone who isn't up on their own knowledge of scripture and
history.
The deity of Christ was EXPLICITLY taught by Ignatius in the early 2nd
century
Irenaeus, before 200 AD
So there you have it. Here is the level of incompetence displayed by
this woman presuming to come and set herself up as a teacher. She says:
> There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
> being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
> was
> not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
> Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
Yet anyone who's actually studied church history--rather than relying on
repeating the ignorance of other biblical and historical illiterates
like herself--immediately realizes this woman has no credibility, no
legitimate theological education, and no right to open her mouth to
exposit the scriptures.
> Donna Kupp
>
> *Psalms 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall
> have them in
> derision.