PCUSA again
The DataRat
"The ones I know of are Union..."
Thanx, Raul !
Isn't Union Theological Seminary
famous for introducing Modernism
early-on ?
Also:
The recent vote against sanctioning
homosexual "unions" by the PC-USA
was very close.
Your favorite rodent used to think
that the PC-USA was a church with
liberal pastors and conservative
congregants. But, the numbers from
that vote indicate that Christians in
the PC-USA's congregations only
have a slim majority.
DR
John T. Stevenson
> that the PC-USA was a church with
> liberal pastors and conservative
> congregants. But, the numbers from
> that vote indicate that Christians in
> the PC-USA's congregations only
> have a slim majority.
It is rather obvious that this would eventually be the case.
As go the leaders, so will eventually go the congregations.
I still know some conservative pastors in the PCUSA, but they are becoming
more and more rare.
John
Arco
I apologize if I sound pendantic, but when the Nazis started
invading countries the world could have sat back and said "Oh
just let them have that one", but they would not have stopped at
just a few.
If we concede the point and let the Forces of Apostacy have the
PC[USA] today, then tomorrow they will move on another
denomination. Then we could concede that denomination to them
and they would move on to another denomination.
How long would it take them to roll-over the majority of
Christiandom with their filth?
We must never concede the first time.
We must oppose the forces of evil at every turn.
You observed that the recent vote was tight [so tight that it
reverberated in my bones], but we did win the vote.
If we can win one vote then we can win another.
If we can establish a sane conservative standard in the church,
then we impose ethical and theologic standards on our ministers
and demand that our seminaries train ministers to those
standards.
Satan must not be permitted to win by default, just because our
battle is uphill, when we walk out and concede to him because it
is easier than standing our ground and fighting for the truth
and righteousness God has taught us and Christ has died for.
Arco
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
The DataRat
"I still know some conservative pastors
in the PCUSA, but they are becoming
more and more rare"
It's not surprising since they use
Princeton, Union, and Columbia as
their seminaries.
If Arco has the ~slightest~ chance of
turning the PC-USA around, the
battle will be won over the seminaries
...NOT over rule changes vis-a-vis
sodomites. That's only a symptom.
The real question, however, is why
the big deal about a human institution ?
Let them have the PC-USA. It'll
wither and die just like the Episcopal
Church is in the process of doing.
All this effort is much more profitably
spent on Christian denominations.
If it was a matter of a few of the pastors,
and some of the congregations, Bro. Rat
would say: "Fight 'em to the death !".
But, it's obvious that almost all the pastors
-and, nearly half the congregants- are no
longer Christian.
The DataRat
The DataRat
"but they would not have stopped at
just a few"
Actually, Arco, your favorite rodent
is a dilettante of military history.
He can't allow your misconceptions
to pass.
Germany in the Nazi Era NEVER
intended to takeover the world. (Sure,
they would have liked to. Bro. Rat
would ~like~ to take over the world
as well. But, it WASN'T in their grand
design of things.)
Hitler's acquisition goals were
Eastern Europe and Russia (not the
entire Soviet Union -just Russia proper).
When England and France declared
war on Germany (yes, England and
France started World War Two !),
der Fuhrer was in shock !
It was NOT in the Nazi plan to overrun
France and conquer the British Isles.
When the German army did overrun
France, Hitler was astounded. He was
also unprepared to exploit the amazing
victory of his generals.
Had France and England not declared
war on Germany when they did: France
never would have been invaded, there
would have been no Battle of Britain, no
Nazi occupation of Norway, no need for
a costly Allied invasion of continental
Europe.
After Poland, Hitler ~would~ have
invaded Russia (as proven by his
precipitous attack prior to finishing
his war with the West).
But, he never had any intention of ruling
Europe ...much less the world. Germany
is a relatively small nation lacking the
wealth and manpower to exercise dominion
over more than Central Europe and the
European portion of the Soviet Union.
A successful invasion and occupation of
Russia would have maxed-out Nazi
resources and strength. ( Even Hitler's
occupation of Norway was a tactical
necessity forced upon him. Something
like 70% of Germany's iron ore was from
Northern Sweden through Norway, and
the British Royal Navy's disregard of
Norway's neutrality threatened this critical
supply. )
Of course, the British and American
propaganda machinery depicted both
the invasions of France and Norway as:
'See, Hitler wants one country after
another'. When -in fact- Allied activities
forced these actions on the Germans.
Neither invasion had been on the Nazi
"To Do" list !
The DataRat
The DataRat
"If we concede the point..."
Ignoring the historicity of your point,
it must be challenged as a valid
analogy. This ISN'T World War Two.
Sure, Satan wants total victory. But
-unlike human warfare- this war is
NOT over territory (whether nations
or churches).
It's spiritual warfare, and Satan has
taken over many formerly-Christian
churches only for the Lord to raise up
new ones.
The buildings, the pension fund, and
the other physical assets of a particular
denomination have no spiritual currency.
Semper Reformata !
The DataRat
The DataRat
"let the Forces of Apostacy have the
PC[USA] today, then tomorrow they
will move on another denomination"
Friend Arco, the Devil is ALREADY
attacking on ~every~ front open to him.
The PC-USA isn't a key piece in
some ecclesiastical Domino Theory.
If other churches are not being
overrun by apostates, it ain't because
the PC-USA hasn't fallen yet.
The churches that aren't under
Satanic attack are the ones which
hold to Sola Scriptura. They'll stand
as long as they continue. They'll start
to fall the moment they stop
...regardless of what happens with
the PC-USA !
Your Pal,
The DataRat
The DataRat
"We must never concede the
first time"
Dear friend, it is NOT the first time.
The Hebrew Church under the last
dispensation was disfellowshipped
by God nearly two-thousand years
ago. There have been many others
since.
"You observed that the recent vote
was tight [so tight that it reverberated
in my bones], but we did win the vote"
You won a battle. With those kind
of margins, you CAN'T win the war.
That vote was a tactical victory. But, it
spells ultimate defeat. It has established
that close to half the membership of the
PC-USA sees nothing wrong with same-
sex "unions".
Think about it: Almost have the
congregants of the PC-USA want to
endorse homosexuality ! What kind
of "Christian" would do that ? And,
what church can survive nearly half
it's membership endorsing what
Scripture deems an "abomination" ?
The DataRat
"If we can win one vote then we
can win another"
Any defeat of Satan warms El
Raton's little rodent heart. But,
you're dealing with symptoms.
Your ~real~ battle is what seminaries
your pastors are being ordained
out of !
Your Buddy,
The DataRat
Raul Goulden
> If we can win one vote then we can win another.
> Arco
Just a few years ago the vote margin was still nearly
90% against such measures re: sexuality.
One of the lay delegates to GA told me the homo's flooded
her with video tapes and all sorts of material campaigning
for this in the months preceeding GA.
RG
Raul Goulden
> The buildings, the pension fund, and
> the other physical assets of a particular
> denomination have no spiritual currency.
> The DataRat
But they sure do attract lazy and uncalled people.
RG
Raul Goulden
> Just a few years ago the vote margin was still nearly
> 90% against such measures re: sexuality
This is another problem with these mainline denominations.
Since they dumped the bible decades ago they have no
authority to stand against immorality. So quite frankly they
just look like bigots.
Raul doesn't want his church to affirm immoral lifestyles
not on the basis of what Raul thinks is right, but because
God's word has clearly told us what is sin re: such issues.
RG
S.T. Stevenson
about such issues.
--
S.T. Stevenson
1st...@home.com
(omit numerals to use)
"Arco" <arco-jet...@excite.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:0f05e855...@usw-ex0103-019.remarq.com...
> DR -
>
> I apologize if I sound pendantic, but when the Nazis started
> invading countries the world could have sat back and said "Oh
> just let them have that one", but they would not have stopped at
> just a few.
>
> If we concede the point and let the Forces of Apostacy have the
> PC[USA] today, then tomorrow they will move on another
> denomination. Then we could concede that denomination to them
> and they would move on to another denomination.
>
> How long would it take them to roll-over the majority of
> Christiandom with their filth?
>
> We must never concede the first time.
>
> We must oppose the forces of evil at every turn.
>
> You observed that the recent vote was tight [so tight that it
> reverberated in my bones], but we did win the vote.
>
> If we can win one vote then we can win another.
>
S.T. Stevenson
attack exactly 180 degrees opposite from the reality.
"The DataRat" <data...@home.com> wrote in message
news:395EF295...@home.com...
>
>
> "let the Forces of Apostacy have the
> PC[USA] today, then tomorrow they