"What Do You Think Of Jesus Christ?"
Koos Nolst Trenite
28 April 2004
When I came out of a showing of Mel Gibson's movie 'The Passion of
Christ,' there were some people from Christian groups, giving
leaflets with the addresses of their meeting places.
I look rather authoritative to people, and therefore one of those
persons, after some fidgeting about, came up to me and wanted to
know from me, "do I believe in Jesus Christ?"
I looked at him, at his anguish and his anger about those people who
had replied to him, that
"they did not believe in Jesus Christ," that
"they lived fine without 'believing in Jesus Christ'."
Afterward, I looked at his problem, and decided it would have been
better, both for him and for those people, had he asked them
"What do you think of Jesus Christ?" or
"How do you like Jesus Christ?"
He was more interested in making people BELIEVE in Jesus Christ,
than in getting people to KNOW Jesus Christ.
So, gathering his courage, and "being allowed," socially - because I
just came out of the movie 'The Passion' - to approach me and
satisfy his curiosity, he asked me:
"Do you believe in Jesus?"
I replied to him, that I did not 'believe in Jesus,' but
I know Jesus.
As he did not understand this, I went on to explain to him:
"I see you, and so I do not BELIEVE you exist, but I know you
exist."
And he then went on to make sure that he had understood me correctly,
which he had.
And he wanted to know how I had come to this knowledge of Jesus
Christ's existence.
Not having the time to assess his level of knowledge and particular
areas of interest, I replied to him, that I had achieved that
through a lot of study, and that it would, indeed, take too long
now, to give him a more extensive answer.
Now, I have taken some time to formulate a more extensive answer:
You can not see - unless you are looking at the Earth as from
heaven - you can not really see, that the Earth is a round ball
turning slowly in space (unless you are looking at the Earth as
from heaven).
Rather, to your visual perception, it looks like a flat surface
that you live and work on.
But you can study many things, read about many things, look at
many things, understand and examine many things - which then
inevitably result in the knowledge and therefore certainty, that
the Earth indeed is fully round as a ball is round.
Thus it is also with knowing Jesus Christ, and with knowing God:
By studying all the things known and observable, and putting
these together, you can gain a knowledge and certainty with a
correct understanding of the existence of Jesus Christ, and also
of God.
This study I did with the 'Trinity of Science,'(*) should you so
desire and be inclined to make that study, and not only believe
or feel, but also KNOW Jesus Christ to exist.
Koos Nolst Trenite "Cause Trinity"
human rights philosopher and poet
'It is of no use walking
anywhere to preach
unless our walking
is our preaching.'
Saint Francis of Assisi
________
Footnote:
(*) 'The Trinity Of Science - Truth, Love and Beauty (Version 2.1)
{HRI 20030307-pi-1-V2.1}' (7 March 2003 - V2.1 on 17 October 2003)
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3b6f518d.0310180348.7cf1b6f5%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
_________
Reference:
- 'When God Has Left You...'
(24 November 2003 - Version 2.0 at 5 Apr 2004) {HRI 20031124-V2.0}
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3b6f518d.04040...@posting.google.com&output=gplain
Copyright 2004 by Koos Nolst Trenite - human rights philosopher
and poet
This is 'learnware' - it may not be altered, and it is free for
anyone who learns from it, and (even if he can not learn from it,)
who passes it on unaltered, and with this message included,
to others who might be able to learn from it.
None of my writings may be used, ever, to support any political
or religious agenda, but only to educate, and to encourage people
to judge un-dominated and for themselves about any organizations
or individuals.
Sh'ma-Yisrael
<SNIP self glorification>
>
> He was more interested in making people BELIEVE in Jesus Christ,
> than in getting people to KNOW Jesus Christ.
It's not up to him, it is an act of the Holy Spirit.
>
>
> So, gathering his courage, and "being allowed," socially - because I
> just came out of the movie 'The Passion' - to approach me and
> satisfy his curiosity, he asked me:
>
> "Do you believe in Jesus?"
>
>
> I replied to him, that I did not 'believe in Jesus,' but
>
> I know Jesus.
Mark 16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not
believe will be condemned. (NIV)
>
> As he did not understand this, I went on to explain to him:
>
> "I see you, and so I do not BELIEVE you exist, but I know you
> exist."
>
>
> And he then went on to make sure that he had understood me correctly,
> which he had.
>
> And he wanted to know how I had come to this knowledge of Jesus
> Christ's existence.
>
> Not having the time to assess his level of knowledge and particular
> areas of interest, I replied to him, that I had achieved that
> through a lot of study, and that it would, indeed, take too long
> now, to give him a more extensive answer.
You are a student of Aristotle, aren't you? Perhaps Thomas Aquinas?
Both of them professed the value and possiblity of complete knowledge
of God.... unfortunatly, they were both doomed to circle and circle to
no end.
>
>
> Now, I have taken some time to formulate a more extensive answer:
>
> You can not see - unless you are looking at the Earth as from
> heaven - you can not really see, that the Earth is a round ball
> turning slowly in space (unless you are looking at the Earth as
> from heaven).
Or a space station.
>
> Rather, to your visual perception, it looks like a flat surface
> that you live and work on.
>
> But you can study many things, read about many things, look at
> many things, understand and examine many things - which then
> inevitably result in the knowledge and therefore certainty, that
> the Earth indeed is fully round as a ball is round.
Columbus believed it was true, but it was because of faith. Did it
make it less true?
>
>
> Thus it is also with knowing Jesus Christ, and with knowing God:
>
> By studying all the things known and observable, and putting
> these together, you can gain a knowledge and certainty with a
> correct understanding of the existence of Jesus Christ, and also
> of God.
Actually, it is by faith we profess our risen Lord.
>
> This study I did with the 'Trinity of Science,'(*) should you so
> desire and be inclined to make that study, and not only believe
> or feel, but also KNOW Jesus Christ to exist.
It isn't very cohesive (your argument). You seem to mix gnostiscism
with aristotle. Both have proven to be unreliable. Make no mistake, I
value knowledge. Knowledge can help you formulate systematics and
theology not to mention exegesis...I am just unable to subscribe to
your hypothesis that knowlwge leads you to Christ.
Shalom!
Leonardo Been
compassion and knowing simple facts of life, by pretending that denial
to be "religious," however he - is well described in the referenced
article (*).
He is encouraged to make use of his rights as defined in 'Rights of
Criminal Minds' (**)
______________
(*) 'All Criminal Minds Are Forcefully Compulsive Liars (And Also)
Are Energy Vampires' (27 April 2004) {HRI 20040427-V2.0}
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3b6f518d.04042...@posting.google.com&output=gplain
(**) 'Rights of Criminal Minds' {HRI 20040108} (8 January 2004)
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3b6f518d.0401081033.1e365ac6%40posting.google.com&output=gplain