Orthodoxy in Post-Modern Pluristic Societies
nick cobb
Faculty of St Vladimir's Seminary
ARTICLES / Protopresbyter Thomas Hopko
Orthodoxy in Post-Modern Pluralistic
Societies
It may have been Winston Churchill who said that
American liberal
democracy is the worst form of government ever
devised, except for all
the others. Whoever said it, I fully agree.
As the grandson of Carpatho-Russian immigrants to
the United States,
I cannot imagine my life in any other society
except with gratitude for
my personal destiny. As an Orthodox Christian,
however, a "liberated
peasant" blessed with higher learning, faith,
family, priesthood and
theology, I also cannot imagine a way of life more
insidious to Christian
Orthodoxy and more potentially dangerous to human
being and life.
"Corruptio optimi pessima." The corruption of the
best is the worst.
The most evil vice is always the perversion of the
most excellent virtue.
Sin is always misuse and abuse. There is no better
example of this than
what has happened and continues to happen to
American liberal
democratic society with its capitalist economics,
its affirmation of
human equality and individual rights, and its
insistence on total freedom
for all persons and communities in their "pursuit
of happiness", qualified
only by the imperative that another's rights and
freedoms be not
violated or denied.
Post-Modern
Pluralism
American liberal democracy today is no longer what
it was when
Churchill (or whoever it was) called it the worst
form of government
except for all others. Much has changed in America
since these words
were spoken. The form of society now produced and
exported by
America is not what our commentator praised in his
clever remark. For
when this comment was made, the American way of
life was indeed
liberal, democratic and capitalistic. But it was
not pluralistic. It was
White, Western and Christian, grounded on a
biblical worldview,
primarily Protestant, and a biblical ethic which
was held, however
poorly or hypocritically, by the vast majority of
its participants. Nor
was it the secularized, politicized, subjectivized
and carnalized way of
life which it is today through its
"deconstruction" of science,
metaphysics, theology and art into a society which
we now call
"post-modern."
Orthodox Christians in North America, Western
Europe, sections of
the Middle East, Australia and Japan already live
in varying degrees in
the new social, political and economic post-modern
pluralistic world
whose origins lie in modern American liberal
democracy. Those in
Eastern Europe are on their way to it with a
determination that will not
be denied. And those in the once-called "third
world" have already
been effected by it in ways too numerous to
consider and to complex
to unravel.
A Totally New
Reality
Some of us Orthodox say, quoting the Preacher,
that there is really
"nothing new under the sun". In a sense this is
true. Birth and death,
pleasure and pain, righteousness and sin, peace
and war, and the
changing of the seasons have always been, and
always will be. But
wise people also know that the ways in which human
beings
experience, understand and interpret these
constant realities are
constantly changing.
Others of us say that Orthodox Christians in all
times and places are
inevitably in the situations in which we all find
ourselves today. The
Orthodox have always been a minority within a
minority;
misunderstood, feared, ridiculed, rejected and
persecuted by spear or
by sneer (as Dostoevsky once put it). This was so
in the earliest
church, they say, when the Orthodox were a small
group within the
"Jesus movement" surrounded by gnostics, legalists
and fundamentalists
of various sorts as witnessed already in the
canonical New Testament
scriptures. This was also true in the
"Constantinian" age when
Orthodox fathers and saints usually departed this
life defeated and
dishonored while heretics, apostates and plain
evil-doers ruled the
Christian empire. It was true in Ottoman times and
in Holy Russia, not
to mention the Marxist horror. And it is true
today. So, some say,
things were never really any different than they
are now.
And other Orthodox today specifically compare our
time to that of the
early Church when Christians were divided among
themselves in a
great variety of groups and movements, with
massive confusion and
controversy among themselves, and under violent
persecution from
those around them in a world that was both highly
religious and highly
carnal yet fully united in its outrage against
those who in their irrational
stubbornness resolutely refused to see Jesus as
but one of the many
teachers and gods, and Christian faith as but one
of the many religions
and spiritual paths available to sensible,
tolerant, good-willed,
cultivated people.
But there are radical differences today from all
previous times.
Orthodoxy today is not a persecuted minority among
a plethora of
Christian and other spiritual movements in a
"pagan" empire whose
faithful members are in the fresh fervor of the
first proclamation of
Christ in the world. Nor is Orthodoxy today the
established Church of
a Christian empire whose persecuted saints are in
constant struggle
with heretics, apostates and sinners, and even at
times with each other.
Nor is Orthodoxy any longer a variety of ethnic
communities under
Moslem or Marxist domination. Nor is it, in
"diaspora", simply a
collection of Orthodox exiles in heterodox
Christian countries
undergoing massive secularization, transformation
and change.
Orthodoxy for the first time ever -- though still
a minority Church
riddled with massive inner confusions, fears,
pretensions and divisions
resulting from its 2000 year odyssey through
history -- now finds itself
in a "global village" whose diverse peoples in
varying ways are all
moving toward a way of life which has already
begun to dominate the
planet. This is American liberal, democratic,
capitalistic, post-modern
(and post-Christian) pluralism. It is the way of
life which already reigns
in what was once called the "first world."
From Modern to
Post-modern
Remnants of the old "modern" world remain in
contemporary America,
and they remain as well in the present world which
America is
producing and for which it remains the ideal,
however some may deny,
deplore and resist it. Religious toleration,
racial equality and minority
rights, for example, are still issues of major
concern in America and
everywhere else in the political realm. The right
to work, equal
employment opportunities, safe working conditions
and a just wage are
still sought and fought for in the economic arena.
Universal education
and health care, adequate housing, and
compassionate immigration
policies - to continue our example - are still
matters of critical social
concern. And in religious, philosophical,
scientific and artistic life the
old modern (Kantian, Darwinian, Newtonian,
Marxist, ...) issues such
as the relationship between faith and reason,
science and theology,
critical thinking and fundamentalism, liberty and
authority, individual
conscience and traditional mores, and even
orthodoxy and heresy,
continue to capture people's passionate attention
and concern. But
these issues, though remaining in power, are no
longer viewed and
interpreted as they once were. In post-modern
pluralistic societies they
are seen in a whole new way, within a whole new
context, and with a
whole new agenda for action.
This new universe of thought, discourse and
behavior is the direct result
of modern secularized society's reduction of
Christianity to a privatized,
compartmentalized "religion" so brilliantly
criticized by Fr. Alexander
Schmemann whose writings can still be read with
great profit,
especially in post-Marxist societies. It is a
transmutation of the
Judeo-Christian worldview and experience far
beyond anything even
remotely imagined by Fr. Georges Florovsky (among
many others) in
his critique of heterodox "pseudomorphoses" of
Orthodoxy. In modern
secularized society, the language, structures,
symbols and rites of
classical, biblical Christianity remain, while
their content and meaning
are radically altered. In the post-modern
"deconstruction" of the
modern worldview -- by way of radical personal and
cultural
existentialism, the sexual revolution, the
mystical quest, the politicization
of theology and ethics, and the explosion of
material and spiritual
hedonism and avarice -- traditional language,
structures, symbols and
rites are recreated to the point where their
original content and meaning
no longer remain at all, but are replaced by a
whole new reconstruction
of reality.
In the post-modern pluralistic world there is no
truth, right, good and
beauty which all human beings are created to
discover, know and
believe; to which they are called to conform in
thought, word and deed;
in which they are privileged to delight and
rejoice; and for which they
are blessed to give glory and thanksgiving to God.
There is no meaning
and purpose for all. There is rather a creation of
reality, or rather, more
accurately, many creations of a plethora of
pseudo-realities, produced
by the subjective willings of individuals, parties
and "interest groups" in
the context of politics, power, self-creation and
permissiveness. The
tenets of modern liberal democracy now become
objects of worship
and ends in themselves in a politicized, hedonized
world. Freedom
becomes licence. Acquisition becomes a right.
Differences are deified.
And happiness, now understood as material and
pseudo-spiritual
pleasure, becomes obligatory for all.
If more than a half century ago H. Richard Neibuhr
could say that in
modern American liberal Protestantism "a God
without wrath brings
man without sin into a kingdom without judgment
through the
ministrations of a Christ without a cross" (The
Kingdom of God in
America, 1937, p. 193), it can now be said that in
the new age of
most-modern pluralism divinity without sovereignty
brings humans
without dignity into an age without responsibility
through the
exploitation of a god or goddess of your choice
without tragedy.
If any think that this is a fearful exaggeration
unfounded in fact, I would
invite them to look at contemporary American
politics, economics, law,
education, medicine, religion, entertainment and
art. And I would also
ask them to look at what is now happening in all
countries and regions
of the world, beginning with their own.
Four Unacceptable
Responses
Four possible responses to post-modern pluralism
are in my opinion
unacceptable for Orthodox Christians.
The first is the denial that "post-modern
pluralism" exists and is rapidly
growing in clarity and power in all parts of the
world. To misread what
is happening and to underestimate its impact would
be fatal for
Orthodoxy. Post-modern pluralism is here, and
barring a revolution of
unimaginable proportion, it is here for the
duration.
Secondly it would be a fatal mistake for Orthodox
Christians to think
that they and their churches are immune to
post-modernism and
untouched by its influence and power. We Orthodox
are as infectable
and infected as anyone, and as easily diseased and
deluded. We need
only by God's grace to see ourselves as we
actually are (a miracle, our
saints tell us, greater than raising the dead),
and to acknowledge that
this is so.
A psychiatrist describing the homosexual movement
in America, and its
place within the contemporary American ethos as a
whole, has said
that "a great deal of intelligence can be invested
in ignorance when the
need for illusion is deep" (C.W. Socarides,
Homosexuality: A
Freedom Too Far, p. 234). He sounds like an
ascetic saint describing
spiritual delusion (plane, prelest). Is this
warning not applicable to us
Orthodox whose need today for illusions and
delusions about
ourselves, our churches, our histories, our
neighbors and our
contemporary world are apparently very deep
indeed?
Thirdly we Orthodox Christians must not respond to
post-modern
pluralism by imagining that we can reject the
contemporary world by
taking refuge in a world of our own making. To do
so would be to
surrender to the very aberration and temptation we
are called to
expose and resist. It would be the very thing that
post-modernism
would have us do, and defend our right and reason
for doing. We
cannot create our own realities by subjective
fiat.
We must engage reality as it is, and take
responsibility for it before
God. We must live in the world which by God's
providence is ours.
And finally we must not fall prey to the
post-modern pluralistic
worldview as some great new opportunity for
humankind which
Orthodox Christians should welcome as being
inherently consistent
with traditional Orthodox views of freedom,
personal dignity, cultural
diversity, incarnational theology and apophatic
mystical theology; and
our equally traditional (if sometimes facile and
superficial) criticisms of
"Western" rationalism, pietism, legalism and
moralism.
Orthodoxy and
Post-modernism
There are several things which we Orthodox can and
must do in the
face of the post-modern pluralistic worldview,
particularly in societies
where it has already taken hold.
From the start we must compel ourselves to put
Christ, and only Christ
and his gospel, at the center of our concerns. We
must do only that
which "seems good to the Holy Spirit and to us"
according to the "mind
of Christ". We must work (as we are now doing) to
evaluate our world
together, in a conciliar manner, finding a common
mind and forging a
common plan of action. This is no mean achievement
in the
contemporary post-modern pluralistic world which
constrains us to
construct our own particular versions of reality
and history on the basis
of our own self-determined desires, interests and
needs.
Conciliarity, which is Orthodoxy itself, demands
more than sacrifice. It
demands death. "Amen, amen", the Lord says to us,
"unless a grain of
wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains
alone; but if it dies, it
bears much fruit. He who loves his life loses it,
and he who hates his life
in this world will keep it for eternal life" (Jn
12:24-25). This saying of
the Lord applies as much to parishes, dioceses,
local churches and
patriarchates as to individual persons. It is
totally antithetical to the
post-modern pluralistic view which in the name of
our rights and
liberties commands us not merely to love our lives
in this world, but to
create and deify them, defending them against
anyone and anything that
would have us do otherwise. How ironic it is, and
how unbearably
painful, to see Orthodox Christians and churches
betraying Christ and
the gospel -- and their own real self-interests --
in their captivation to
the demonic deceit that God Himself would have us
love, protect and
defend "our own" at the expense not only of
others, but of truth itself.
Orthodox Christians must once and for all abandon
the lie that we and
our churches can live by Christ's gospel and still
retain all the riches and
glories of our peculiar national cultures and
identities, even using
Orthodoxy itself for this purpose -- a deception
which we Orthodox in
modern and post-modern pluralistic societies have
largely accepted
and enacted. Our present pathetic realities reveal
the results of such
false belief and behavior. We Orthodox in North
America and Western
Europe are far along the way to losing both our
faith and our culture by
fusing them together as if they were one and the
same. And our
brothers and sisters in post-Marxist lands seem
not to learn much from
our experience.
According to Christ's gospel there is only one way
to save our lives,
and everything in our lives worth saving, for
everlasting life in God's
kingdom. It is to deny, forsake and even to hate
all things in this world
for the sake of Christ, the gospel and the kingdom
of God. It is to hate
our families, nations, possessions and cultures -
and even our earthly
ecclesiastical institutions - for the sake of the
truth (Lk 14:25-26). It is
to "count everything as loss for the sake of
Christ", to use St. Paul's
powerful words, and "to suffer the loss of all
things and to count them
as dung" for the "surpassing worth of knowing
Christ Jesus" and being
"found in him" (Phil 3:7-9). These are violent
words. And they are true.
We violate them at our risk. The good things in
life, not our
weaknesses and faults, are our greatest
temptations. It is they which
become our idols and cause us to distort reality,
deny truth and
endorse deception.
In living solely according to the gospel of
Christ, we Orthodox
Christians must also resist the temptation to
transform Orthodoxy into
some sort of hypostasized thing-in-itself, an
ideology among ideologies,
an instrument for furthering our national,
political, cultural or economic
ambitions and desires. We must abandon what
insightful critics of
post-modern pluralism call "hyphenated" truths,
values, histories, ethics
and art. This means that we must not allow
ourselves to speak simply
of Orthodoxy, or of Orthodox theology,
spirituality, culture and
morality. We must rather speak of reality itself
from the perspective of
the gospel and Orthodox tradition.
The reason for this rule, which may seem to be
simply a matter of
semantics, or of packaging and marketing, is that
the post-modern
pluralistic worldview and rhetoric encourages the
conviction that
varieties of religions, movements and cultures can
and indeed must
produce their own truths for themselves. They must
create their own
ethics and art, and write their own histories
according to their own
interests and purposes. Just as there are no such
things as womanist
history or homosexual art or Buddhist ethics or
Moslem spirituality
possessing the right not only to remain
unchallenged by those outside
the respective communities, but even to insist on
their universal
approbation by others as proper and legitimate to
the community's
members, so also there is no such thing as
Orthodoxy just for the
Orthodox. There is truth for everyone, values for
all people, history in
which all have their rightful place, art in which
all can delight, and
spirituality in which all can share ... none of
which have the right of
remaining beyond the questions and criticisms of
others and the human
community as a whole, and all of which have the
duty of being open to
the testing of others as to their veracity and
validity for all people.
Orthodoxy is no exception to this rule. We
Orthodox must be ready to
be questioned and challenged concerning our
claims.
This leads to the very essence of Orthodoxy's
witness in the world: the
conviction that Jesus Christ is the Son and Word
of the only true God,
and that He alone is the way, the truth and the
life of all people, God's
very wisdom and power in the world. He is God's
enfleshed image
according to which all men and women are made. He
is the head, not
only of the Church, but over all things (hyper
panta), the one in, for
and by whom all things (ta panta) come to be and
exist; the one in
whom all things (ta panta) hold together and
consist.
Jesus of Nazareth is not one of many lights in the
world. He is the light
of the world itself who enlightens all men and
women who sit in lands of
darkness and in the shadow of death. He is life
itself, confined to no
one culture, tradition or nation, unbound even by
the Orthodox Church
which is "his body, the fulness of him who fills
all and in all." He is
God's beloved Son, the Son of God's love, and God
who is love itself.
Wherever truth is, Christ is there. Wherever wise
people find their way,
however imperfectly, He is their wisdom and way.
Wherever power
and beauty exist, He is their origin and end. And
wherever there is
love, He is its source, content and rule; its
definitive bearer and revealer
in the world; its final fulfillment, completion
and perfection forever. This
is Orthodoxy, always and everywhere. It is the
evangelical "word of the
Cross" which perhaps in the whole of human history
has never been
more scandalous and foolish than it is today in
the contemporary
post-modern pluralistic world in which we now
live.
Contrary to post-modern propaganda, such
convictions need not
necessarily lead to the imperialist domination by
"Christofascists" who
compel others to accept their dogmas, ethics and
versions of history by
means of military, economic and cultural
domination. This can happen.
And it has, alas, happened in the past. But our
Orthodox saints, and
indeed the saints of all places and times whom we
Orthodox see as
inspired by God, have always opposed it even to
the point of shedding
their blood at the hands of their own earthly
powers as well as their
enemies.
Whatever the case, Orthodox Christians today must
be prepared to
tolerate every error and evil while unmasking its
falsehood and
rebuking its sin. And we must be ready as well,
with real rejoicing and
without reluctance or regret, to affirm "whatever
is true, whatever is
honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure,
whatever is lovely,
whatever is gracious", with anything "excellent"
and "worthy of praise",
wherever and in whomever these divine realities
are found (Phil. 4:8).
And we must also be willing to exercise our
privilege and duty as
Orthodox Christians to intercede before God and
stand as advocates
before His Face on behalf of all who, wittingly or
unwittingly, have
been led astray by the devil.
This brings us to another imperative for Orthodox
Christians in
post-modern pluralistic societies: the calling to
evangelize, witness and
serve all people without domination,
discrimination or condition, and,
indeed without even the desire to convert or
reform, which is God's
job, not ours. We are only to announce the gospel,
testify to truth,
serve every person, and be ready to suffer the
consequences which are
surely to come. Though this was always the task of
the Orthodox, it
was not always our way, or that of our neighbors.
It is more imperative
than ever that it be our way today in a world in
which, not without
reasons, both just and unjust, those who claim to
be in any way
"orthodox" are suspected and feared.
To be faithful to that for which we have been
chosen and called, we
Orthodox must be free ourselves, and respect the
freedom of others,
while proclaiming to all and proving by our that
true freedom is found
only in knowing and doing the truth. Perhaps no
ideal and idol is more
present and powerful in modern and post-modern
societies than
freedom. And perhaps nothing is more
misunderstood, misused and
abused. Not only democracy, but Christianity, is
impossible without
freedom. American liberal democracy in its
original form is perhaps
history's greatest proof of this truth, and Holy
Russia, perhaps, the
greatest example of the tragedy of its violation.
As long as the "American experiment" remained
rooted in its Christian
soil, it worked. It was truly the worst possible
form of human society,
except for all others. It deteriorated to its
present condition not only by
evil and sin, or as some say, by ceasing to be
overtly Christian, and
even Protestant. It decomposed when democracy
became an idolized
end-it-itself and every participant and group
demanded its right not
only to be respected and tolerated, but to be
affirmed and approved
without condition or question. It collapsed, and
continues to collapse,
not only through the loss of basic Christian
doctrine and ethics, but
through the loss of the conviction that there is
truth and righteousness
for all people in any form at all. Because of
this, the transformation of
modern American liberal democracy into a
post-modern pluralistic
plethora of hostile and warring interest groups,
including some which
bear the name "Christian", was inevitable. And so
too was its
movement toward what Pope John-Paul II has called
a "culture of
death."
Death, not life, is ultimately what post-modern
pluralism is about. It is
the essence of its ethos. We are speaking here not
merely of the death
of the mind and the spirit, but of the soul and
body, and of human
community and society itself. Dostevsky revealed
the roots of this
madness in his radical exposure of "modernism".
Metropolitan John of
Pergamos analyzed it magnificently in his studies
on being as
communion, and communion as truth.
Liberal democracy and free-market capitalism in
its "deconstructed"
post-modern forms are literally lethal. It cannot
be otherwise. There is
an ontological law at work here which cannot be
violated except onto
condemnation, judgment and death. The "Kirillov"
syndrome, so
brilliantly described artistically by Dostoevsky,
and so brilliantly
analyzed philosophically and theologically by
Metropolitan John (and
others) is as brilliantly demonstrated
existentially and historically in
contemporary modern and post-modern North American
and Western
European societies.
To see, once again, that this is so one need only
to examine "first
world" political, military, economic and sexual
practices; the activity of
the media; contemporary entertainment and art; the
handling of the
AIDS crisis and abortion; and the euthanasia and
"right to die"
movements. What "Kirillov" achieved for the
modern, alienated,
libertarian individual; post-modern pluralists
achieve for humankind as a
whole. In its most radical and advanced
expressions, the "culture of
death" not only permits humans the right to
demonstrate their liberty by
spiritual and physical suicide, but it guarantees
them the freedom to kill
others as well.
Orthodox Christians must stand in the contemporary
world not only
affirming life against death, but by affirming
death in its true light, as the
"final enemy" to be confronted, taken up and
destroyed. We know that
death is destroyed in Christ. It is destroyed not
by life-affirming
rhetoric, positive thinking and an upbeat attitude
in the "pursuit of
happiness." Still less is it overcome by political
activity, legal action,
economic development, sexual liberation and the
will to power. Nor is
it conquered by the acquisition of possessions,
properties, positions,
profits and prestige. It is overcome, defeated and
destroyed by truth,
justice and love. It is conquered by the refusal
to resist evil-doers even
unto death in order to remain untouched by their
evils.
The paschal proclamation of Christ's victory over
death is Orthodoxy
itself. The Lord conquers death by taking up sin,
becoming a curse,
embracing pain, enduring suffering and being
obedient to God the
Father even unto death on the cross in
unconditional love for evil-doers
and by becoming their unyielding intercessor and
advocate before God
the Father. Christ's disciples are called to do
nothing other than what
Christ Himself has done, and continues by the
Spirit to do through His
saints for the life of the world and humanity's
salvation.
"For God sent his Son into the world, not to
condemn the world, but
that through him the world might be saved. ... and
this is the judgment,
that light has come into the world, and human
beings loved darkness
rather than light because their deeds were evil.
... but the person who
does what is true comes to the light that it may
be clearly seen that his
works are wrought in God" (Jn 3:16-21).
Protopresbyter Thomas Hopko is Dean of St Vladimir's
Seminary.
Atsaves
Regards,
Louis Geo. Atsaves
<< Subject: Orthodoxy in Post-Modern Pluristic Societies
From: ni...@cris.com
Date: Mon, May 24, 1999 10:06 PM >>
evagr...@my-dejanews.com
nick cobb <ni...@cris.com> wrote:
Mr. Cobb, thanks for posting this article. It states much of what I
have been trying to say and feel. Too bad it can't be obligatory
reading for all on this NG!
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
Gerard Serafin
nick cobb wrote:
> ARTICLES / Protopresbyter Thomas Hopko
>
> Orthodoxy in Post-Modern Pluralistic
>....And so too was its movement toward what Pope John-Paul II has called
> a "culture of death."
This was an excellent article by Fr Hopko!
I think it significant that the only theological voice he quotes is that
of Pope John Paul II--who has led the way in precisely the enteprise Fr
Hopko believes so vital for the Church--the proclamation of the Gospel
in this post-modern plurastic world. While the Catholic attempt is not
perfect, it surpasses, as far as I am able to tell, all other such
efforts. And *none* surpass Pope John Paul II in this challenging
effort!
Fr Hopko honors this by his quotation---now a part of our
vocabulary--the "culture of death" vs "the culture of life." Pope JP
II's "The Gospel of Life" is one shining light among many (and from
Orthodox and Protestants as well).
--
Gerard Serafin
Celebrating the Romance of Orthodoxy:
A Catholic Page for Lovers:
http://praiseofglory.alabanza.com
Praise of Glory BookCenter:
"Do not read good books; read *great* books!":
http://praiseofglory.alabanza.com/books.htm
evagr...@my-deja.com
Gerard Serafin <jer...@home.com> wrote:
>
> nick cobb wrote:
>
> > ARTICLES / Protopresbyter Thomas Hopko
> >
> > Orthodoxy in Post-Modern Pluralistic
>
called
> > a "culture of death."
>
>
> I think it significant that the only theological voice he quotes is
that
> of Pope John Paul II--who has led the way in precisely the enteprise
Fr
> Hopko believes so vital for the Church--the proclamation of the Gospel
> in this post-modern plurastic world. While the Catholic attempt is not
> perfect, it surpasses, as far as I am able to tell, all other such
> efforts. And *none* surpass Pope John Paul II in this challenging
> effort!
>
> Fr Hopko honors this by his quotation---now a part of our
> vocabulary--the "culture of death" vs "the culture of life." Pope JP
> II's "The Gospel of Life" is one shining light among many (and from
> Orthodox and Protestants as well).
>
> --
> Gerard Serafin
>
> Celebrating the Romance of Orthodoxy:
> A Catholic Page for Lovers:
> http://praiseofglory.alabanza.com
> Praise of Glory BookCenter:
> "Do not read good books; read *great* books!":
> http://praiseofglory.alabanza.com/books.htm
>
was struck by that little phrase). You know that doing so will irritate.
Let's not irritate too many! (I'm afraid that I have-mea culpa).
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
JOH...@webtv.net
alive and well among Orthodox churchs.The old were right your all wrong
mentality.
Even the Orthodox church of America,has bishops that only associate with
other Christians because its expected of them in America.
And the Russian and Greek churchs are only comfortable being the "
State church ".
Its comparable to 1950's Catholocism,ain't that one for the books.
John
Sergei592
Regretfully? Not necessarily. Like 1950s Catholicism? Good!
+++++++
+ Presvjataja Bohorodice, spasi nas + Most holy Mother of God, save us +
Pray without ceasing; it's later than you think
- Fr Seraphim Rose
'Are you Orthodox or Catholic?' Yes!
evagr...@my-deja.com
JOH...@webtv.net wrote:
> A very interesting article.Regretfuly the Fortress mentality seems to
be
> alive and well among Orthodox churchs.The old were right your all
wrong
> mentality.
> Even the Orthodox church of America,has bishops that only associate
with
> other Christians because its expected of them in America.
> And the Russian and Greek churchs are only comfortable being the "
> State church ".
> Its comparable to 1950's Catholocism,ain't that one for the books.
>
Yes. Triumphalism is the major obstacle for the Orthodox. One can see
it alive and well in this NG. Triumphalism has a heavy price; loss of
relevance ( this means quite simply, can anyone understand what you are
saying without the help of a historical/theological dictionary), loss
of having a voice in the society ( besides that of a curiosity) and
worse, the loss of generations of believers who drift away because they
don't understand the language, the rituals, the beliefs and their
rationale. I hope the parallel with Catholicism continues and Orthodoxy
receives from God individuals like Pope John XXIII, ( of course, there
are many Orthodox who would quake at such an event).
evagr...@my-deja.com
serg...@aol.comSPAMLESS (Sergei592) wrote:
> <<A very interesting article.Regretfuly the Fortress mentality seems
to be
> alive and well among Orthodox churchs.The old were right your all
wrong
> mentality.
> Even the Orthodox church of America,has bishops that only associate
with other
> Christians because its expected of them in America.
> And the Russian and Greek churchs are only comfortable being the
"State
> church ".
> Its comparable to 1950's Catholocism,ain't that one for the books.>>
>
>
> +++++++
>
> + Presvjataja Bohorodice, spasi nas + Most holy Mother of God, save
us +
> Pray without ceasing; it's later than you think
> - Fr Seraphim Rose
>
> 'Are you Orthodox or Catholic?' Yes!
>
John XXIII began Vatican II!
I think what you want is a fiction. Too bad.
I prefer reality with its maddening questions and ambiguities.
Orthodoxy will continue to lose young people to other faiths or no
faith. Why? Because it refuses to answer the questions and ambiguities
of today. It even refused to educate its young until recently.( Admit
it, catechism for the young is only recent. Didn't the old approach
just say, the Liturgy will teach everything? ( which is true, but you
have to have some education to notice)).
The Orthodox have to admit that simply being a "cradle" born Orthodox
or an ethnic Orthodox is good enough.
There has to be some response to the situation. Fr. Hopko's speech is a
frank admission of this and he must be commended for telling the truth
as he sees it.
Now if only others on this NG read it.