IS JESUS THE WORD
arah
person in the “Holy trinity.” However, the very Bible which is used as
a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your
own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out
of context:
1.Almighty God is All Knowing…..but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
limitation on his knowledge when he said, “but of that day and hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
son, but the Father.” Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
God.
2. Almighty God is All Powerful…..but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said,
“Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but
what he seeth the Father do…” St. John 5:19. Again he said, “I can of
mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just;
because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which
hath sent me.” St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is
also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own
admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is
not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
3. Almighty God does not have a God…..but Jesus did have a God.
God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one
whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, “l ascend unto
my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.” St. John
20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, “My
God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?” Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God,
then couldn’t this be read, “Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken
me?” Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord’s
prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
Gethsemane he prayed, “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt.” Matt
26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
4. Almighty God is an invisible spirit…..but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
this could not be done with God when he said. “No man hath seen God at
any time.” St. John 1:18. ‘”Ye have neither heard His voice at any
time nor seen His shape.” St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John
4:24. “God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in
spirit and in truth.” That Jesus would say that no one had seen or
heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is
clear proof that Jesus was not God.
5. No one is greater than God the Almighty and no one can direct Him
but Jesus
acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
his own.
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, “My Father is greater
than I.” When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,
Jesus responded, “Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
one, that is God…” Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between
himself and God when he said, “I proceeded forth and came from God,
neither came I of myself but He sent me.” St. John 8:42. Jesus gave
clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality
with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, “not my will but thine be done”
and in St. John 5:30, “I seek not mine own will but the will of the
Father which hath sent me.” That Jesus would admit that he did not
come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so,
that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and
that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will
of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and
therefore Jesus is not God.
Let see the warning by Jesus
Mark 7:6-13 (New King James Version)
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you
hypocrites, as it is written:
‘ This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’[a]
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of
men[b]—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things
you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God,
that you may keep your tradition.
10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your
father and your mother’;[c] and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let
him be put to death.’[d] 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father
or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is
Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do
anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no
effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many
such things you do.”
May Almighty God the Creator bless every one of us who seek the truth.
AMEN
Claude Hopper
Happy forth of Jew Lie.
--
Claude Hopper ? 3 :) 7/8
alt
> Do you pray and serve Jesus and claim that Jesus is God, the second
> person in the “Holy trinity.” However, the very Bible which is used as a
> basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
> Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own
> Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of
> context:
Please research the Hypostatic Union before you try to disprove Jesus'
deity.
vernono
He came as a man and is no longer a man.
Apparently you have no clue what the Logos is.
DUUUUHHH
It's simply translated as "word".
The Logos is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent.
The Logos envelopes the Universe.
At least get an education.
"arah" <arah...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:654c42d3-3919-40d7...@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
JohnH
bob young
arah wrote:
>
> Do you pray and serve Jesus and claim that Jesus is God, the second
> person in the Holy trinity. However, the very Bible which is used as
> a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
> Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your
> own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out
> of context:
NOTHING can be verified from an obscure book of unknown
origins
written by insecure primitive goat herders two thousand odd
years ago.
NOTHING.
Bob
Humanist, atheist, realist, sentimentalist Brit.
Man creates gods in his own image;
and spends the rest of his life
manipulating them to his heart's content
Raymond
> arah wrote:
>
> > Do you pray and serve Jesus and claim that Jesus is God, the second
> > person in the “Holy trinity.” However, the very Bible which is used as
> > a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
> > Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your
> > own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out
> > of context:
>
> NOTHING can be verified from an obscure book of unknown
> origins
> written by insecure primitive goat herders two thousand odd
> years ago.
>
> NOTHING.
I suppose that is correct as an atheist believer only accepts what
they want not to believe in. So NOTHING is true to them, not even
themselves. Their foundation is built on lies and false statements,
so again NOTHING that proves they are wrong is accepted by them.
NOTHING is all they got to hold onto, so nice to see you admit such
Bob even if you did not mean it this way. NOTHING you have to say
about the WORD of God the Holy Bible or Christian belief is true and
so again NOTHING is all you got.
vernono
"Raymond" <rwk...@aim.com> wrote in message
news:b6d8920a-fd6d-420c...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 5, 12:07 pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> arah wrote:
>
> > Do you pray and serve Jesus and claim that Jesus is God, the second
> > person in the “Holy trinity.” However, the very Bible which is used as
> > a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
> > Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your
> > own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out
> > of context:
>
> NOTHING can be verified from an obscure book of unknown
> origins
> written by insecure primitive goat herders two thousand odd
> years ago.
>
> NOTHING.
Of course the know nothing atheist doesn't even know the basics of dynamics
/ thermo dynamics. All things deteriorate..
Nothing advances.
Those so called sheep hearders had a language much higher than ours. We
have a couple mechanical things and MUCH less intelligence.
Atheist = uneducated.
************************************************
bob young
Raymond wrote:
>
> On Jul 5, 12:07 pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > arah wrote:
> >
> > > Do you pray and serve Jesus and claim that Jesus is God, the second
> > > person in the Holy trinity. However, the very Bible which is used as
> > > a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
> > > Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your
> > > own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out
> > > of context:
> >
> > NOTHING can be verified from an obscure book of unknown
> > origins
> > written by insecure primitive goat herders two thousand odd
> > years ago.
> >
> > NOTHING.
>
> I suppose that is correct as an atheist believer only accepts what
> they want not to believe in.
Wrong. We accept what can be shown as fact. We accept
logic and common sense. We accept the findings of science.
What we do not accept is superstition
So NOTHING is true to them, not even
> themselves.
Care to explain in more detail
or are you simply rattled because we have you questioning
your primitive beliefs?
Their foundation is built on lies and false statements,
Please cite these lies. Or are they pertinent observations
that you prefer to assume are lies
for the reason i already stated above?
> so again NOTHING that proves they are wrong is accepted by them.
try me
> NOTHING is all they got to hold onto, so nice to see you admit such
> Bob even if you did not mean it this way. NOTHING you have to say
> about the WORD of God the Holy Bible or Christian belief is true and
> so again NOTHING is all you got.
Smile - sorry buddy but you are the one with 'nothing'
and deep in your sub concious you know that only too well.
Ever asked yourself 'My religion is chock a block full of
claims but to date none of them have been satisfactorarily verified'.
Isn't that 'nothing' ?
bob young
vernono wrote:
>
> "Raymond" <rwk...@aim.com> wrote in message
> news:b6d8920a-fd6d-420c...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 5, 12:07 pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > arah wrote:
> >
> > > Do you pray and serve Jesus and claim that Jesus is God, the second
> > > person in the Holy trinity. However, the very Bible which is used as
> > > a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
> > > Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your
> > > own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out
> > > of context:
> >
> > NOTHING can be verified from an obscure book of unknown
> > origins
> > written by insecure primitive goat herders two thousand odd
> > years ago.
> >
> > NOTHING.
> *****************************************************
>
> Of course the know nothing atheist doesn't even know the basics of dynamics
> / thermo dynamics. All things deteriorate..
>
> Nothing advances.
>
> Those so called sheep hearders had a language much higher than ours. We
> have a couple mechanical things and MUCH less intelligence.
Oooooh yes I know !!!!!
They were soooo smart back then !!!!
The universe revolves around the earth.
Stars are pinpricks in the heavens.
The world is flat (and on pillars)
Bats are a kind of bird.
Rabbits chew their cud.
There is enough water to flood the entire planet
Women were created from a man's rib
Rainbows are a promise from God
[Acknowledgements to 'James, Seattle']
Raymond
> Raymond wrote:
>
> > On Jul 5, 12:07 pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > > arah wrote:
>
> > > > Do you pray and serve Jesus and claim that Jesus is God, the second
> > > > person in the “Holy trinity.” However, the very Bible which is used as
> > > > a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
> > > > Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your
> > > > own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out
> > > > of context:
>
> > > NOTHING can be verified from an obscure book of unknown
> > > origins
> > > written by insecure primitive goat herders two thousand odd
> > > years ago.
>
> > > NOTHING.
>
> > I suppose that is correct as an atheist believer only accepts what
> > they want not to believe in.
>
> Wrong. We accept what can be shown as fact. We accept
> logic and common sense. We accept the findings of science.
> What we do not accept is superstition
NO RIGHT. You refuse to accept facts that do not fit your own belief
system, the same as some religions do. You reject logic and common
sense as seen by others, and again if it does not fit your doctrines
you refuse to accept it, that is part of your own made superstition.
I sure you reject the findings of science as many Creation Science
have prove the false claims of evolution and other so called facts
that do not support the teachings of God and the Bible. I seen folks
of like mind as yours just demis them. Then when they dismiss the
other as unproven science, the ones you would accept just deny it, but
can not prove their own science. Your superstition is the same as
others only in your faith, you reject there being a god, and the
teachings of the Bible. Which is part of the fundamental tenancy of
atheist-ism.
> So NOTHING is true to them, not even
>
> > themselves.
>
> Care to explain in more detail
> or are you simply rattled because we have you questioning
> your primitive beliefs?
I believe I did above before you posted this question. My primitive
beliefs are just as good today as they were when they were started. I
believe the sky is up and the ground is down, and most likely it is
one of your primitive beliefs also. General questions with no
substance can mean anything the user wants to make it seem.
>
> Their foundation is built on lies and false statements,
>
> Please cite these lies. Or are they pertinent observations
> that you prefer to assume are lies
> for the reason i already stated above?
Like I said I cited your lies many times and all you do is call that a
lie, and then call the Christian beliefs as lies, so what observation
would you like, I do not think a person from Mars or the Moon would be
accepted either as both of us would see such as false and only lies.
I prefer to assume anything that can not be proven by Christian reason
and understanding as I have stated before and above also.
> > so again NOTHING that proves they are wrong is accepted by them.
>
> try me
I have many times and all I get is the same kind of remarks, and
rejections of what I see as proven and not wrong, you proved many
times in these post you do not accept what Christians do accept. So
why keep tying?
>
> > NOTHING is all they got to hold onto, so nice to see you admit such
> > Bob even if you did not mean it this way. NOTHING you have to say
> > about the WORD of God the Holy Bible or Christian belief is true and
> > so again NOTHING is all you got.
>
> Smile - sorry buddy but you are the one with 'nothing'
> and deep in your sub concious you know that only too well.
Oh well you just proved again why "try" you? Thank you.
>
> Ever asked yourself 'My religion is chock a block full of
> claims but to date none of them have been satisfactorarily verified'.
No because I do not care about what a religion claims, my faith is in
God and the wonderful blessings that Jesus my Lord does provide and
bless me and my family as we follow Him. Not a religion, the Roman
Catholic religion is full of claim and such as the Islam and Hinduism
along with their thousands of gods, then Buddhist religion is of no
value to me, and I am not satisfied with any of them then some in
these religions do claim like the atheist claim they are sure they are
right and they are happy with what they do believe. I find a atheist
in some cases are more near to God then a person with all kinds of
gods and claims like the Fatima story and so on, no need to bring up
their claims it would take years for you or I to denounce them.
>
> Isn't that 'nothing' ?
Most have nothing and I can agree with you here.
Raymond
Sensi
Sensi:
I agree with what you say. (most of it) not all.
A mix up in thinking often refers to Jesus as God.
I and my Father are one meaning the man Jesus houses the
Spirit of God *within* his heart and mind.
ie...they think alike, they act alike, they work as a
partnership with the same goals and purpose. Likeminded.
vernono
"Sensi" <sensi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ttudnSni8bdLVe_V...@posted.socketinternetservices...
I suggest you look up who the "Logos" was / is to the Greeks.
THAT is who John was referring, NOT "WORD".
bob young
Raymond wrote:
>
> On Jul 6, 4:04 am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > Raymond wrote:
> >
> > > On Jul 5, 12:07 pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> > > > arah wrote:
> >
> > > > > Do you pray and serve Jesus and claim that Jesus is God, the second
> > > > > person in the Holy trinity. However, the very Bible which is used as
> > > > > a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
> > > > > Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your
> > > > > own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out
> > > > > of context:
> >
> > > > NOTHING can be verified from an obscure book of unknown
> > > > origins
> > > > written by insecure primitive goat herders two thousand odd
> > > > years ago.
> >
> > > > NOTHING.
> >
> > > I suppose that is correct as an atheist believer only accepts what
> > > they want not to believe in.
> >
> > Wrong. We accept what can be shown as fact. We accept
> > logic and common sense. We accept the findings of science.
> > What we do not accept is superstition
>
> NO RIGHT. You refuse to accept facts that do not fit your own belief
> system,
Take the blinders off our mummy fitted you with - atheist
have no belief system
the same as some religions do. You reject logic and common
> sense as seen by others, and again if it does not fit your doctrines
> you refuse to accept it, that is part of your own made superstition.
> I sure you reject the findings of science as many Creation Science
> have prove the false claims of evolution and other so called facts
> that do not support the teachings of God and the Bible. I seen folks
> of like mind as yours just demis them. Then when they dismiss the
> other as unproven science, the ones you would accept just deny it, but
> can not prove their own science.
what a wonderful description of the average religious fundi
posting here
- been looking in a mirror again I see.
Your superstition is the same as
> others
Are you honest? If the answer is 'Yes' then delineate my 'superstition'.
Thank you
only in your faith, you reject there being a god, and the
> teachings of the Bible. Which is part of the fundamental tenancy of
> atheist-ism.
>
> > So NOTHING is true to them, not even
> >
> > > themselves.
> >
> > Care to explain in more detail
> > or are you simply rattled because we have you questioning
> > your primitive beliefs?
>
> I believe I did above before you posted this question. My primitive
> beliefs are just as good today as they were when they were started.
Ha Ha That's for sure
Bob
Humanist, atheist, realist, sentimentalist, Brit.
Man creates gods in his own image;
and then spends the rest of his life
manipulating them to his heart's content.
bob young
Your god created the entire universe
and then leaves two of his children disagreeing on the basic
tenets of itself and it's son.
ROFL....[or should it be 'Groan'] ........ no wonder there
are atheists
Victor Borras
a desire to contradict and believe me you can take almost anything out of
context if you don't follow and read everything before and after the verse
you speak of.
Let me show you....
First in speaking of the DATE of Judgement, where you say that it clearly
shows a limitation on Jesus's part. But this is not so.... to begin this is
not speaking of any lack of power, that is not knowing the date of the
Coming of Judgment Day,...going back to the Trinity as you mentioned, you
must have noticed that each entity has a specific job or function in this
world and to mankind. Because all three are the Godhead of the Almighty,
they each have a specific function. Jesus while on the earth with mankind
he is known as the Son of God, and to quote a verse you yourself gave in
John 5:19- you omitted the last lines where it says: "..The Son can do
nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever
he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Here he is speaking actions, things that are done, and so here Jesus clearly
states that whatever things the Father does, he too does LIKEWISE....that
last word says it all...meaning in exact manner or way.
As for the date above, God the Father may not have done the things that
Jesus did, Jesus had his own Job to do, and that is the part of his deity,
God the Father has his, and the Holy Spirit has His too.
Because the Father has one specific function that the other two have no
function or power of, is not a limitation but a function or job in the deity
of the Trinity.
Jesus while on the earth had a great task to do, and this is that He came to
speak to the Jews whom are the firstfruits of Abraham, and so they who
should have known the truth of the scriptures were the first to condemn
Jesus, so Jesus had to Show them that He was and is the Messiah and He did
this by showing them that He was sent by the Heavenly Father, and that as a
Good Son He followed His Father's wishes and will. But as any Son who also
inherits all his Father's Power, He showed the Jews that Jesus' Power came
from the Almighty whom is His Father. Further on Jesus Himself said, I and
the Father are One....meaning the same, equal as in power. It is not that
Jesus could not raise the dead on His own, but so the Jews would know that
His power over Life and Death can ONLY come from God the Father, Jesus did
what He did, in the way that He did so that the Jews would know for sure
that He is the Son of God. The scriptures says that many Jews believed at
that moment that Jesus was the Messiah, or Son of God, but as the 'enemy'
would have it, the High Priest sent to have Lazarus killed so that they
could say that Lazarus was never raised from the dead!
Remember, during the time of Jesus on earth, His job was great, not just to
die on the cross, the scriptures had to be fulfilled, so the words of Jesus
were all said with a great meaning behind them.
Part 3
Here where you quote His words on the cross, again you miss the point...
While on earth Jesus did not walk like God, but like a man, for as a man He
was in the form of the sacrificial lamb, and as such His Father is also our
Father, because when we come to Jesus and accept Him as Savior we too become
sons of God or the Children of God. So the Jews would know and realize that
He was that Lamb as prophesied in the old testament, He became one of us, He
did not have to, but the Love of God was so Great that He Sent His Son to be
tortured and beaten so that we can have salvation. But the Jews who knew
the scriptures had to learn first that Jesus did fulfill them.
Note: in the original translation, the word God is really spelled something
like: Yhwh, so that Eli could have been "My Lord.." but even if it directly
says 'My God'...remember the same Jews who crucified Him were there, and
each word that came out of His mouth was going to be talked about to the
High Priest back then. As a man, Jesus showed them that to the end He was
the obedient Lamb and Son of God.
Part 5
when you are sent somewhere, you are a being of intelligence to understand
you are being sent...
again the Jews needed to understand that Jesus was not boasting that the
power to heal or raise the dead or even tell a tree to wither away, was
something that He got of His own accord, No the Jews must be aware that
Jesus had these powers because He and His Father in Heaven are the same. As
a Father loves his son He gives all to His son, and so as a Son Loves His
Father He will Always give Honor to His Father for everything He has. That
the Jews may know that He came from the Father and the Father is in Him.
Will contine next message....
"arah" <arah...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:654c42d3-3919-40d7...@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
ARAH
Victor wrote:
">Because all three are the Godhead of the Almighty,
> they each have a specific function. Jesus while on the earth with mankind
> he is known as the Son of God, and to quote a verse you yourself gave in
> John 5:19- you omitted the last lines where it says: "..The Son can do
> nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever
> he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."
">But as any Son who also
> inherits all his Father's Power, He showed the Jews that Jesus' Power came
> from the Almighty whom is His Father. Further on Jesus Himself said, I and
> the Father are One....meaning the same, equal as in power...."
Victor, since you are a follower of Christianity, you will be happy to
die since Jesus promised heaven to you.
But that was not the practised of Jesus,if Jesus is part of God he
will be happy going back to his father he will never cried very load
and so frusted because that the father forsake and left him.
Matthew 27:46 "Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eli, Eli, lema
sabachthani?’ which means, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken
me ?’ "
I am so sorry for those blind followers of Christianity.
1.Almighty God is All Knowing…..but Jesus was not
2. Almighty God is All Powerful…..but Jesus was not
He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you
hypocrites, as it is written:
‘ This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’[a]
May Almighty God the Father open their heart and mind to see and
accept the truth.
AMEN
AMEEN
On Jul 25, 11:13 am, "Victor Borras" <pegasu...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Arah- the problem with you and many as you is that you read these words with
> a desire to contradict and believe me you can take almost anything out of
> context if you don't follow and read everything before and after the verse
> you speak of.
> "arah" <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> 9 He said to them, “All too well ...
>
> read more »
bob young
Victor Borras wrote:
>
> Arah- the problem with you and many as you is that you read these words with
> a desire to contradict and believe me you can take almost anything out of
> context if you don't follow and read everything before and after the verse
> you speak of.
> Let me show you....
> First in speaking of the DATE of Judgement,
Nothing from these times can be dated.
The whole gambit could well have been put together three
hundred years
after the period it tries to convey.
Bob
Humanist, atheist, realist, sentimentalist, Brit.
Man creates gods in his own image;
and then spends the rest of his life
manipulating them to his heart's content.
•R. L. Measures
<69a3957b-73f1-45cd...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, ARAH
<arah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Victor wrote:
>
> ">Because all three are the Godhead of the Almighty,
> > they each have a specific function. Jesus while on the earth with mankin=
> d
> > he is known as the Son of God, and to quote a verse you yourself gave in
> > John 5:19- you omitted the last lines where it says: "..The Son can do
> > nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soev=
> er
> > he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."
>
> ">But as any Son who also
> > inherits all his Father's Power, He showed the Jews that Jesus' Power cam=
> e
> > from the Almighty whom is His Father. Further on Jesus Himself said, I an=
> d
> > the Father are One....meaning the same, equal as in power...."
>
> Victor, since you are a follower of Christianity, you will be happy to
> die since Jesus promised heaven to you.
>
> But that was not the practised of Jesus,if Jesus is part of God he
> will be happy going back to his father he will never cried very load
> and so frusted because that the father forsake and left him.
>
> Matthew 27:46 "Jesus cried out in a loud voice, =91Eli, Eli, lema
> sabachthani?=92 which means, =91My God, my God, why have you forsaken
> me ?=92 "
>
>
> I am so sorry for those blind followers of Christianity.
>
** Christianity has little to do with the teaching of the itinerant rabbi
who called himself the Son of man.
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
•R. L. Measures
> Victor Borras wrote:
> > =
>
> > Arah- the problem with you and many as you is that you read these words=
> with
> > a desire to contradict and believe me you can take almost anything out =
> of
> > context if you don't follow and read everything before and after the ve=
> rse
> > you speak of.
> > Let me show you....
> > First in speaking of the DATE of Judgement,
>
>
>
> Nothing from these times can be dated.
>
...
• By his own admission, not even Yeshua/Jesus knows this.
ARAH
Surah 78. An-Naba’ (The Tidings, The Announcement)
1. Concerning what are they disputing?
2. Concerning the Great News,
3. About which they cannot agree.
4. Verily, they shall soon (come to) know!
5. Verily, verily they shall soon (come to) know!
6. Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
7. And the mountains as pegs?
8. And (have We not) created you in pairs,
9. And made your sleep for rest,
10. And made the night as a covering,
11. And made the day as a means of subsistence?
12. And (have We not) built over you the seven firmaments,
13. And placed (therein) a Light of Splendour?
14. And do We not send down from the clouds water in abundance,
15. That We may produce therewith corn and vegetables,
16. And gardens of luxurious growth?
17. Verily the Day of Sorting out is a thing appointed,
18. The Day that the Trumpet shall be sounded, and ye shall come forth
in crowds;
19. And the heavens shall be opened as if there were doors,
20. And the mountains shall vanish, as if they were a mirage.
21. Truly Hell is as a place of ambush,
22. For the transgressors a place of destination:
23. They will dwell therein for ages.
24. Nothing cool shall they taste therein, nor any drink,
25. Save a boiling fluid and a fluid, dark, murky, intensely cold,
26. A fitting recompense (for them).
27. For that they used not to fear any account (for their deeds),
28. But they (impudently) treated Our Signs as false.
29. And all things have We preserved on record.
30. "So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds); for no increase shall We
grant you, except in Punishment."
31. Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the
heart's) desires;
32. Gardens enclosed, and grapevines;
33. Companions of equal age;
34. And a cup full (to the brim).
35. No vanity shall they hear therein, nor Untruth:-
36. Recompense from thy Lord, a gift, (amply) sufficient,
37. (From) the Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all between,
((Allah)) Most Gracious: None shall have power to argue with Him.
38. The Day that the Spirit and the angels will stand forth in ranks,
none shall speak except any who is permitted by ((Allah)) Most
Gracious, and He will say what is right.
39. That Day will be the sure Reality: Therefore, whoso will, let him
take a (straight) return to his Lord!
40. Verily, We have warned you of a Penalty near, the Day when man
will see (the deeds) which his hands have sent forth, and the
Unbeliever will say, "Woe unto me! Would that I were (metre) dust!"
bob young
ARAH wrote:
>
> My dear Bob (Humanist, atheist, realist, sentimentalist, Brit.)
>
> Surah 78. An-Nabaβ (The Tidings, The Announcement)
>
> 1. Concerning what are they disputing?
>
> 2. Concerning the Great News,
>
> 3. About which they cannot agree.
>
> 4. Verily, they shall soon (come to) know!
>
> 5. Verily, verily they shall soon (come to) know!
If there realy were a god there would be no disagrrement
>
> 6. Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
>
> 7. And the mountains as pegs?
>
> 8. And (have We not) created you in pairs,
Everything is in pairs, billinos of species, all driven by
the urge for gratification.
The basic ones are; eating, copulating and getting rid of
waste materials. Higher elements of life are gratified
doing other things like singing and believing in imaginary gods
Yup another example of 'join our club it is the best clun
there is,
and you will suffer if you decide otherwise'.
Thanks for proving that the underlying needs of religionists
stem from
Arrogance
Fear
Ignorance
Insecurity
Stupidity
> > > person in the οΏ½Holy trinity.οΏ½ However, the very Bible which is used as
> > > a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within
> > > Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your
> > > own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out
> > > of context:
> > >
> > > 1.Almighty God is All KnowingοΏ½..but Jesus was not
> > > When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
> > > limitation on his knowledge when he said, οΏ½but of that day and hour
> > > knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
> > > son, but the Father.οΏ½ Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
> > > His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
> > > admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
> > > proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
> > > God.
> > >
> > > 2. Almighty God is All PowerfulοΏ½..but Jesus was not
> > > While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
> > > power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said,
> > > οΏ½Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but
> > > what he seeth the Father doοΏ½οΏ½ St. John 5:19. Again he said, οΏ½I can of
> > > mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just;
> > > because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which
> > > hath sent me.οΏ½ St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is
> > > also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own
> > > admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is
> > > not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
> > >
> > > 3. Almighty God does not have a GodοΏ½..but Jesus did have a God.
> > > God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
> > > upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one
> > > whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, οΏ½l ascend unto
> > > my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.οΏ½ St. John
> > > 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, οΏ½My
> > > God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?οΏ½ Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God,
> > > then couldnοΏ½t this be read, οΏ½Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken
> > > me?οΏ½ Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the LordοΏ½s
> > > prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
> > > Gethsemane he prayed, οΏ½O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
> > > pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt.οΏ½ Matt
> > > 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
> > > admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
> > > to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
> > >
> > > 4. Almighty God is an invisible spiritοΏ½..but Jesus was flesh and blood
> > > While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
> > > this could not be done with God when he said. οΏ½No man hath seen God at
> > > any time.οΏ½ St. John 1:18. οΏ½οΏ½Ye have neither heard His voice at any
> > > time nor seen His shape.οΏ½ St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John
> > > 4:24. οΏ½God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in
> > > spirit and in truth.οΏ½ That Jesus would say that no one had seen or
> > > heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is
> > > clear proof that Jesus was not God.
> > >
> > > 5. No one is greater than God the Almighty and no one can direct Him
> > > but Jesus
> > > acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
> > > his own.
> > > Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
> > > equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
> > > of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, οΏ½My Father is greater
> > > than I.οΏ½ When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,
> > > Jesus responded, οΏ½Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
> > > one, that is GodοΏ½οΏ½ Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between
> > > himself and God when he said, οΏ½I proceeded forth and came from God,
> > > neither came I of myself but He sent me.οΏ½ St. John 8:42. Jesus gave
> > > clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality
> > > with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, οΏ½not my will but thine be doneοΏ½
> > > and in St. John 5:30, οΏ½I seek not mine own will but the will of the
> > > Father which hath sent me.οΏ½ That Jesus would admit that he did not
> > > come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so,
> > > that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and
> > > that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will
> > > of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and
> > > therefore Jesus is not God.
> > >
> > > Let see the warning by Jesus
> > > Mark 7:6-13 (New King James Version)
> > >
> > > 6 He answered and said to them, οΏ½Well did Isaiah prophesy of you
> > > hypocrites, as it is written:
> > >
> > > οΏ½ This people honors Me with their lips,
> > > But their heart is far from Me.
> > > 7 And in vain they worship Me,
> > > Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.οΏ½[a]
> > >
> > > 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of
> > > men[b]οΏ½the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things
> > > you do.οΏ½
> > > 9 He said to them, οΏ½All too well you reject the commandment of God,
> > > that you may keep your tradition.
> > >
> > > 10 For Moses said, οΏ½Honor your
> > > father and your motherοΏ½;[c] and, οΏ½He who curses father or mother, let
> > > him be put to death.οΏ½[d] 11 But you say, οΏ½If a man says to his father
> > > or mother, οΏ½Whatever profit you might have received from me is
> > > CorbanοΏ½οΏ½οΏ½ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do
> > > anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no
> > > effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many
> > > such things you do.οΏ½