The Dissemblers Of Modern Christianity
Donna Kupp
"Judge me, O LORD; for I have walked in mine integrity: I have
trusted also in the LORD; therefore I shall not slide. Examine me,
O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart. For thy
lovingkindness is before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.
I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with
dissembers. I have hated the congregation of evil doers;
and will not sit with the wicked." Ps 26:1-5
Throughout the scriptures, the Spirit of Christ shows that God's
Law and God's Grace are in perfect agreement. People of true faith
walk in integrity as they obey the Commandments of God. Indeed,
the scriptures teach that only when we walk in ALL the
Commandments of God, do we walk in "thy truth" ...
"Thou art near, O LORD; and ALL THY COMMANDMENTS
ARE TRUTH." Psalms 119:51
Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles agree that people EITHER
obey all the commandments of God -- OR, they are wicked-evil-
doers. So who is a dissembler?
DISSEMBLER: to hide under a false appearance. 2. to pretend: to
disguise oneself to conceal ones motives. Deceive.
The Ten Commandments are truth. So, a dissembler will deceive
by changing those words of God. For example: the hypocritical
Pharisees ADDED the traditions of men to the Commandments of
God; and Antinomian Churchmen DIMINISH the Commandments
of God by saying: "under the gospel dispensation, the moral law is
of no use or obligation, faith alone being necessary to salvation."
In both cases, the dissembler is a hypocrite who deceives by
tampering with the truth of God's Law. He professes to love God;
but refuses to obey Him.
Under the pretext of extolling God's grace, the dissemblers of
modern Christianity will often use the words "legalism", "legalist"
or "legalistic" as an ad hominem argument against the faithful
teachers who are showing God's people their sins and calling them
to repentance.
It is no wonder that immature Christians are prone to believe a
stigma is attached to legalism. The dissemblers of Christianity
sound so authoritative and pedagogic when they make their
assertions that legalism" lacks mercy and is void of love; when
they allege that it comes from impure motives; and, when they
compare "legalists" with the hypocritical Pharisees who added the
heavy burdens of tradition to the Commandments of God --but you
will soon see the treachery of the dissemblers when you come to
realize that JESUS CHRIST WAS A LEGALIST!
It was Jesus who said: "... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the
commandments." Matt 19:17 (KJV)
It was Jesus who said: "And if your right hand causes you to sin,
cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of
your body than for your whole body to go into hell." Matt 5:30
(NIV)
It was the resurrected Jesus who commissioned His disciples with
these words:
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching
them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: ..."
Matt 28:19-20
Jesus Christ:
"Depart from me, you who practice LAWLESSNESS " *
Matt 7:23.
When you read Matthew 7:21-29, you will see those are the words
that Jesus will say to the people who called Him "Lord" but refused
to obey Him. Those many people (who will be rejected on
judgment day) will have this one thing in common: they were NOT
LEGALISTS!
Donna Kupp
* (The KJV translates lawlessness as "iniquity". It is the Greek
word "anomia" which means without law.)
dk
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
Chuck
"Donna Kupp" <dk...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:8d1641f0-c13f-4146...@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
> The Dissemblers Of Modern Christianity
>
> "Judge me, O LORD; for I have walked in mine integrity: I have
> trusted also in the LORD; therefore I shall not slide. Examine me,
> O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart. For thy
> lovingkindness is before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.
>
> I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with
> dissembers. I have hated the congregation of evil doers;
> and will not sit with the wicked." Ps 26:1-5
>
> Throughout the scriptures, the Spirit of Christ shows that God's
> Law and God's Grace are in perfect agreement. People of true faith
> walk in integrity as they obey the Commandments of God. Indeed,
> the scriptures teach that only when we walk in ALL the
> Commandments of God, do we walk in "thy truth" ...
Unfortunately for legalists like Donna Kupp, while it is true that God's law
and God's grace are in perfect agreement, they agree that no one can be
righteous before God simply by following God's law. Many, many people in
the Old Testament (OT) followed God's law, and had faith in God's grace, and
yet we read in both the OT and the New Testament (NT):
Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that
we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is
none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words. Isaiah
41:26
There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins.
Ecclesiastes 7:20
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as
filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the
wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6
Even David, of whom the Lord God could say, "a man after [my] own heart ",
knew in his heart, as God did:
For my life is spent with grief, and my years with sighing: my strength
faileth because of mine iniquity, and my bones are consumed. Psalms 31:10
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before
proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable;
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used
deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:9-18
>
> "Thou art near, O LORD; and ALL THY COMMANDMENTS
> ARE TRUTH." Psalms 119:51
>
> Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles agree that people EITHER
> obey all the commandments of God -- OR, they are wicked-evil-
> doers. So who is a dissembler?
The one who picks out the laws THEY obey, ignoring all those they don't, and
then preaches that those they've picked out for themselves are the law of
God.
Jesus and the prophets not only proclaimed the truth of God's law, but
summarized it for us, which is to say, Jesus, the incarnation of God and
God's perfect revelation of Himself upon the earth, reduced the 613
commandments of God given through Moses, which include the Ten Commandments,
down to their essence, down to two:
37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your
heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 "This is the first and great commandment.
39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Matthew
22:37-40
Who does Jesus consider our "neighbor"?
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate
your enemy.'
44 "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good
to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and
persecute you,
45 "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise
on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even
the tax collectors do the same?
47 "And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do
not even the tax collectors do so?
48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is
perfect. Matthew 5:43-48
Obviously, then, the world consists of "neighbors" and "enemies", so we are
commanded to love all men as we love ourselves.
Who is it that is "good"? Is it the law keepers? Apparently not, for as we
saw above Isaiah tells us by the inspiration of God that even our
"righteousnesses", or as we would normally say, even the things we do that
are good, are as "filthy rags" (literally: soiled menstrual cloths) before
God. Is keeping God's law a good, a "righteous" thing to do? Clearly it
is, and Donna can go find you a hundred biblical passages (and string them
together any way she likes) declaring it is righteous to keep God's law.
But the point is, will that make anyone righteous before God, and the clear
testimony of Jesus and the prophets is NO! God ALONE is righteous. God
ALONE is "good"
"No one is good but One, that is, God." Matthew 19:17b
And yet we are given the truth by the same revelation of God, and entire
string of names in Hebrews (Heb. 11) of those who kept the law, but were
saved by their faith rather than by their law keeping. The point here is
that no one's righteousness comes by keeping the law given though Moses!
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being
witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and
on all who believe. For there is no difference;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in
Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to
demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed
over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be
just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:21-26
For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or
to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. Romans
4:13
What Donna and her legalistic ilk will never hear, but what the person truly
seeking after righteousness before God must understand, Paul lays out
clearly here:
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after
righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which
is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not
attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the
works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of
offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 9:30-33
The Jews were KNOWN for their zeal for the Law of Moses; particularly the
sect known as the Pharisees, and yet it is this sect that Jesus singled out
for condemnation!
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Romans 10:4
We then all have a choice. we can trust in Christ's sacrifice for our
righteousness before God, and live, have eternal life with God, or we can
continue to seek our righteousness before God through keeping of His Law, as
Donna preaches we must, and remain dead in our sins and tresspasses; and do
NOT play the fool here and delude yourself into thinking you CAN obey God's
Law, for it is impossible; no one keeps all of God's Law, and whoever fails
at one point, fails at all points:
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is
guilty of all.
11 For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder."
Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a
transgressor of the law. James 2:10-11
Legalists such as Donna would have people believe that they can obey God's
law at all points, but in promoting a false idea like this she DISOBEYS
God's word, which directly contradicts her. As we have seen above it is not
not possible to attain righteousness before God by attempting the impossible
and failing here and there, and THEN crying out to God in faith that He will
make up for our shortcomings. We must BEGIN by crying out to God to save us
from our sins; must realize that no matter how many good works this brother
may exhibit in relation to ours, or to that brother's over there, we are all
saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus, and that that faith itself is
a gift of God.
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being
witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and
on all who believe. For there is no difference;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in
Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to
demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed
over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be
just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:21-26
We must realize something Donna and her like never will, and come to
understand with Paul:
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by
the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the
deeds of the law.
29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the
Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the
uncircumcised through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the
contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:27-31
"..but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the
law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as
it were, by the works of the law." Romans 9:31b-32
>
> DISSEMBLER: to hide under a false appearance. 2. to pretend: to
> disguise oneself to conceal ones motives. Deceive.
I couldn't agree more, Donna, so please tell me why you have NEVER quoted or
preached the following:
16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith
in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be
justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the
works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
17 "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are
found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
18 "For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a
transgressor.
19 "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but
Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by
faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through
the law, then Christ died in vain." Galatians 2:16-21 (New King James
Version)
You constantly take your scriptures from the Old Testament, and you would
enslave people in that covenant of God that has passed from the face of the
earth, encourging them to put their trust in what has no power to save them.
That makes YOU the dissembler, Donna; the enemy of the Church of Christ and
of God and the evangelist of Hell's gospel of self-righteouness. Woe to
you, and woe to those who listen to you. As Jesus said to the Pharisees,
who believed like you that righteousness came by keeping God's law:
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the
kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you
allow those who are entering to go in.
14 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows'
houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive
greater condemnation.
15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and
sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a
son of hell as yourselves.
16 "Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'Whoever swears by the temple, it is
nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to
perform it.'
17 "Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that
sanctifies the gold?
18 "And, 'Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by
the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.'
19 "Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that
sanctifies the gift?
20 "Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on
it.
21 "He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.
22 "And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who
sits on it.
23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint
and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law:
justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving
the others undone.
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the
outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and
self-indulgence.
26 "Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the
outside of them may be clean also.
27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like
whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are
full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
28 "Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are
full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the
tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,
30 "and say, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have
been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.'
31 "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of
those who murdered the prophets.
32 "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt.
33 "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
Matthew 23:13-33
Chuck
Donna Kupp
> 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
> 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
> 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable;
> there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
> 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used
> deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
> 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
> 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
> 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
> 17 And the way of peace have they not known:
> 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:9-18
Donna writes to Chuck:
Thanks for the heads up on your lifestyle. I must remember to
never buy a house next to you.
Seriously - Those verses do apply to mankind BUT do you really
believe those verses apply to the children of God after conversion?
10 There is none righteous, no, not one:
* Does that verse refer to Christians? If so then
there are no righteous Christians. And the following
verses must also apply to believers.
11 there is none that seeketh after God.
* No Christians seek after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way,
* All Christians have gone out of the way.
they are together become unprofitable;
* All Christians are unprofitable servants.
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
* No Christian does good.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre;
* All Christians are like an open grave.
with their tongues they have used deceit;
* All Christians are deceitful.
the poison of asps is under their lips:
* All Christians speak with poison.
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
* All Christians mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
* All Christians are quick to shed blood.
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
* All Christians bring destruction and misery.
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
* All Christians do not know the way of peace.
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
* No Christian fears God.
Donna Kupp
Chuck
Donna writes to Chuck:
Chuck: When the true prophet of God was speaking by inspiration, didn't he
include himself when he said "none righteous"? And how is it you fail to
grasp the fact, so often and clearly taught in God's word, that NO ONE is
saved on the basis of their own righteousness? Any who are saved are saved
strictly by sharing in the righteousness of Christ by faith. We are
ACCOUNTED righteous in Christ. If we WERE righteous in Christ, God's word
would say "accounted".
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted
unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the
ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God
imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are
covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Romans 4:3-8
(King James Version)
It doesn't say "blessed is the man who doesn't sin". It says "blessed is
the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin". It says faith is "counted" as
righteousness"; not that the faithful are righteous. I know how you like to
look at the Hebrew and Greek; if you did that here you'd know what I'm
saying. For example, above Paul is quoting Psalm 32:
"Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2
Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose
spirit there is no guile."
The Hebrew translated "impute" here denotes "think, regard, value, compute",
none of which even suggests, much less teaches there is no sin there for God
to think about, or regard, value (in the negative sense of that word) or
compute. The inspired psalmist is saying the blessed man is the one whose
sin God doesn't regard, doesn't think about, and in the NT we are taught WHY
God doesn't regard our sin, and that is because when God regards us, he sees
Christ in us by faith; looks upon Christ's DIVINE, PERFECT righteousness
instead of our wretchedness and sin.
Further, Jesus said: "there is none good but one, that is, God". God sent
his prophets, one after the other teaching us:
"...there is no one who does not sin..." 1 Kings 8:46 (New King James
Version)
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and
so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12 (King
James Version)
If you were truly righteous in Christ because your past sins were forgiven,
and you have not sinned since that time, then why would you still die, for
is not death the wages of sin? You die because you are still under the
curse upon creation because of sin, and you are still under that curse
because you're a sinner; not an ex-sinner, a sinner. Any momment of any day
that you think of your own well-being instead of another's you're a sinner,
for in that moment you fall short of God's perfect, unconditional love, and
unless you're the world's greatest liar, you'll acknowledge you DO think of
yourself quite often in a day (1 John 1:8 - or do you think John is writing
this letter to evangelize instead of to encourage those already born again
by the Spirit? Are you able to ignore who it is John says he's writing to?
He calls them "My little children" [2:1], "Brethern" [vs 7]; and at 2:21
John writes, "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but
because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. There is NO
conceivable doubt that John is writing to believers ASSUMING they need to
know that WHEN, NOT IF they sin after they come to believe, they "have an
advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous")
I am NOT preaching license here; just against your legalism and your
delusion that you stand before God as anything but a sinner saved by grace
through faith in his Son, Jesus Christ. Whatever good works you actually do
(good in God's estimation, rather than your own) are the works of the Holy
Spirit working IN you, making them possible for you to do. You are nothing
but the "earthen vessel". The glory for them and their righteousness does
NOT make you righteous, but God in you. You never get any credit, except
with God as God honors his Son in you, as he has honored and loved the Son
for all eternity. You never get any glory, for all glory belongs to God,
the Father, Son, and Spirit, and you never sit in judgment, for all judgment
belongs to the Three in One who together are the perfect agape love that is
God. If you are saved, it is by the "skin of your teeth" (Job 19:20) and by
grace alone, through faith, and that not of yourself it is the gift of God
(Eph. 2:8). It is NOT your personal righteousness that rebounds to God's
glory in saving you, but your personal WRETCHEDNESS.
Donna, you will be judged by God with the judgment you appeal to for others.
I hope you're ready to stand before God in your perfect obedience to EVERY
ordinance, for as James says, to fail at one point is to fail at every point
(Jas. 2:10).
Donna Kupp
"THE GRACE OF GOD DOES NOT REMOVE THE NEED
FOR HOLINESS, ON THE CONTRARY...
HIS GRACE MAKES POSSIBLE THE HOLINESS WE NEED.
If we continue to commit sin, on Judgement Day we will be
among those who called Jesus 'Lord, Lord', but will be told by
Him:
"Depart from me ye that work iniquity" (Matt 7:23)
Those poor souls had been called by God's grace (unmerited favor)
but refused God's grace (divine influence to restrain from sin).
Their end is eternal destruction!"
You can read the complete article "What Does It Mean To Be
Saved By Grace?" at this link:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?u=1098589
Chuck
> Dear Reader:
>
> "THE GRACE OF GOD DOES NOT REMOVE THE NEED
> FOR HOLINESS, ON THE CONTRARY...
>
> HIS GRACE MAKES POSSIBLE THE HOLINESS WE NEED.
What you don't understand, and apparently never will, Donna, is that his
grace is what MAKES US HOLY, not anything we do. It is "Christ in you, the
hope of glory" (Col. 1:27), rather than "Christ in you, the hope of
righteousness" (Harold and Donna Kupp)
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through
righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:21 (King
James Version)
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have
obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and
our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1 (King James Version)
God's word couldn't be more clear that our righteousness, and thus our
holiness comes BY the righteousness and holiness of Jesus Christ through
faith in that righteous and holy Son of God, and NOT by us; by our own
righteousness or holiness, of which we have NONE!
Does this mean we can transgress the commands of God with impugnity; that we
can simply follow our flesh without fear of Divine condemnation? No,
certainly not! Instead it means that IF one is "in Christ", that man will
desire to do the works of God, and will desire to refrain from following the
lusts of the flesh, and that that man will be strengthened by God's Holy
Spirit to over come temptation. However, as John says:
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but
also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2 (New King James Version)
Chuck
Donna Kupp
> Does this mean we can transgress the commands of God with impugnity; that we
> can simply follow our flesh without fear of Divine condemnation? No,
> certainly not! Instead it means that IF one is "in Christ", that man will
> desire to do the works of God, and will desire to refrain from following the
> lusts of the flesh, and that that man will be strengthened by God's Holy
> Spirit to over come temptation. However, as John says:
>
> 1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
> And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
> righteous.
> 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but
> also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2 (New King James Version)
>
> Chuck
Donna writes:
What Chuck does not understand is that the "little children" of 1
John 2:1-2 are "walking in the light". That is: they are obeying
God in everything that they know. It is a serious error to not make
a distinction between sins of ignorance and sins of rebellion.
When a person is truly born-again, the blood of Jesus will only
atone for sins of ignorance.*
Only the believer who obeys the Commandments of God abides in
Christ. ABIDE: is from the Greek "Meno". It means to remain in,
to stay, to dwell.
"All who keep His commandments ABIDE in Him, and He in
them. 1John 3:24 RSV
"If you keep My commandments you will ABIDE in My Love."
Donna Kupp
* For more information about sins of ignorance and presumptuous
sin, I refer the reader to my post today: FACTS ABOUT SIN.
Chuck
On Jan 8, 3:25 pm, "Chuck" <shellstamf...@cox.net> wrote:
> Does this mean we can transgress the commands of God with impugnity; that
> we
> can simply follow our flesh without fear of Divine condemnation? No,
> certainly not! Instead it means that IF one is "in Christ", that man will
> desire to do the works of God, and will desire to refrain from following
> the
> lusts of the flesh, and that that man will be strengthened by God's Holy
> Spirit to over come temptation. However, as John says:
>
> 1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not
> sin.
> And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
> righteous.
> 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only
> but
> also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2 (New King James Version)
>
> Chuck
Donna writes:
What Chuck does not understand is that the "little children" of 1
John 2:1-2 are "walking in the light". That is: they are obeying
God in everything that they know. It is a serious error to not make
a distinction between sins of ignorance and sins of rebellion.
When a person is truly born-again, the blood of Jesus will only
atone for sins of ignorance.*
Chuck: This is not true. What Donna fails to accept is that Christ is the
propitiation for the sins "of the whole world", not just those of believers.
Beleive Donna or believe Christ. The choice couldn't be more clear.
duke
Better put, those that die in the friendship of God, ie, following his commands,
are the saved. But not of our own decision, but those of Jesus. Lip service
doesn't fool him
Hebrews-Revelation
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of
the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of
judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
>Beleive Donna or believe Christ. The choice couldn't be more clear.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Donna Kupp
Donna writes:
Chuck, I will let the apostle John correct you!
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: BUT HE THAT
BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he hath not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Donna Kupp
Chuck
"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3a5uk55kpighqgqaj...@4ax.com...
That's actually NOT better put, duke, because it implies that Christ died
only for the sins of the saved, and Scripture says otherwise:
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if
any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also
for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2 (King James Version)
> But not of our own decision, but those of Jesus. Lip service
> doesn't fool him
>
> Hebrews-Revelation
> 26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge
> of
> the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation
> of
> judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
It's a critical understanding for the Christian that our liberty in Christ
is not a license to sin willfully. No one has God's permission to live in
sin, and anyone who thinks Calvary gives them that permission has sorely
misunderstood the Gospel.
Chuck
Donna writes:
Chuck: It was John to whom I appealed!
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if
any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also
for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2 (King James Version)
Taking the two in conjunction gives us those who disbelieve in the Son of
God are condemned BY that disbelief, rather than by their failure to obey
God's righteous laws. Because of what Jesus has done for us, it is now the
lack of trust in what he has done for us that condemns us, and that alone.
Of course, Scripture also teaches that trust in the Son, if it is more than
simply self-delusion, produces good works as a living vine produces grapes.
Good works are what those trusting in Jesus Christ for their righteousness
do BY NATURE, their NEW NATURE, and they need no one like you, who sifts
God's word searching for those parts that will seem to justify her false
gospel of working for righteousness before God to tell them how to grow that
fruit, Donna, anymore than an apple tree needs your instruction on growing
apples.