To say Mary did not physically die is more than saying she had no Original Sin...
old man joe
to say Mary had no sin is to call God a liar. there is no mention whatsoever that Mary
had no sin but there is ample evidence she was a sinner like everyone else. the Lord God
had this written into His Word so that men would not be driven to worship her. Satan
drives men to worship her at which he is quite successful.
this becomes clear that Mary was a sinner like everyone else when she calls God her Savior
in Luke 1:47.
to need the Savior Jesus Christ as Savior, Mary is admitting she was a sinner, wholly
incapable of co-redemption. this is further illustrated by God when He records the words
He caused Gabriel to say by His Holy Spirit calling to Mary as " favored one. "
the word " favored " is in the original text is otherwise translated " accepted, "
meaning : to be given something from God which is not at all deserved. it is the same
verb found in Eph. 1:6 where God, speaking of His elect ones, are said by Him that " He
hath made us accepted in the Beloved. " it's " God hath made " not man hath made himself
accepted in Christ.
that terminology clearly says we were not acceptable to God until the moment He caused His
elect ones to be acceptable to Him. the hand of all of God's doing is the " Beloved, "
the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Mary the sinner is saved and made acceptable to God
only because of God Eternal, Jesus Christ, saving her from the penalty of her sins just as
He does with all of His elect ones.
there is no such thing as there being any mere human born sinless. otherwise, that person
did not come from Adam and Eve. sinless perfect is reserved by God for Himself, Christ
only. to say Mary was born sinless is to say she did not come from Adam and Eve which is
yet another lie of Satan promoted by his follower's to direct sinner's away from salvation
by the worship of a person Satan claims was born without sin.
the push behind Mary being named Co-Redeemer is to make her seem to be on the same level
and even higher than that of Christ, who is God Eternal come in the flesh. sinless
perfection is found in man's philosophy's as he invents his own gods to redeem him... they
by necessity must be above him in glory so as to justify paying homage to them.
Mary worshiper's strive to be sinless by the administration of ceremonies which they call
' Sacraments ' which really say that one can be acceptable to God without Christ. this is
one of the thing's the gospel's of this world all strive to do... make atonement for sin
without the Savior Jesus Christ.
some of the world's crooked gospel's are so blatantly obvious as not to be mistaken as
being completely without Christ while Catholicism is a devious Satanic pursuit using some
of the people and ways of God right from the Bible so as to be utterly blasphemous... the
mere appearance of righteousness but completely without substance.
these have shown they have no conscience whatsoever so as to have removed one of the 10
Commandments in order to allow themselves the worship of graven images of Mary... more
than 10,000 other's are worshiped as having power over their lives... therefore the need
to appease them for special favor's.
( remarkable it is that these have helped the Nazis escape from Germany, for the looted
gold of the Jews whom the Nazis raped, tortured and murdered, and yet worship the Jewish
woman Mary. it then is natural for them to have changed the facial features of Jewish
women to that of a Gentile looking image of their statues. )
these two thing's will always be lacking in any of Satan's many gospel's : the lack of
Jesus Christ as Savior who alone made payment for sin who therefore is to be sought for
redemption and salvation by any means other than salvation being given to those who's
names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, apart from earning it. Acts 4:12; 13:48
this is why the Apostle Peter writes " give diligence to make your calling and election
sure. " ( 2 Pet. 1:10 ) Fundamentalism has a palatable gospel for those who hope to
obtain salvation by personal achievement which uses words and doctrines right from the
Bible though they redefine grace as something to be earned by decision making. these are
patted on the back by their fellow co-redeemer's for being smarter than everyone else and
so by this they have Satan's approval of overthrowing the gospel of Christ yet again.
some of Satan's gospel's are clever indeed but thanks be to God in Christ by His
indwelling Holy Spirit through the Word of God that God so causes His elect not to be
deceived. it is impossible.
Patrick
ThomM
> to say Mary had no sin is to call God a liar.
Sorry - but things that are not proven to exist cannot be liars - only
the people like YOU who make up these stories are.
Mary had no sin for two reasons
1 - There was and remains NO proven god - to sin against.
2 - Mary is still another part of a fictional MYTH - did not actually
exist. She has the same ability to sin as the easter bunny does - NONE.
duke
>On Nov 15, 10:00�am, old man joe <ne...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> to say Mary had no sin is to call God a liar. �
>Sorry - but things that are not proven to exist cannot be liars - only
>the people like YOU who make up these stories are.
So you really are one of those people that professes the fable that God is a
myth.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
duke
>
>to say Mary had no sin is to call God a liar. there is no mention whatsoever that Mary
>had no sin
No body said she had no sin. But her sin was removed from her soul at her
conception as her intended duty as ARK of the New Covenant. You and I and the
rest of humanity have to wait for our death and time in purgatory of be freed of
the sin nature and the temporal punishment of actual sin - if we are saved.
> but there is ample evidence she was a sinner like everyone else. the Lord God
>had this written into His Word so that men would not be driven to worship her. Satan
>drives men to worship her at which he is quite successful.
>this becomes clear that Mary was a sinner like everyone else when she calls God her Savior
>in Luke 1:47.
How was this 14 year old girl to know different? And she was made sinless by
God.
ThomM
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:21:12 -0800 (PST), ThomM <tommad...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >On Nov 15, 10:00 am, old man joe <ne...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> to say Mary had no sin is to call God a liar.
> >Sorry - but things that are not proven to exist cannot be liars - only
> >the people like YOU who make up these stories are.
>
> So you really are one of those people that professes the fable that God is a
> myth.
Since he is - and is already Disproven - it is the TRUTH
duke
Just as long as you profess the fable that God is a myth.
Thommadura
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 05:13:01 -0800 (PST), ThomM <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 16, 7:17 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:21:12 -0800 (PST), ThomM <tommad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>> On Nov 15, 10:00 am, old man joe <ne...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> to say Mary had no sin is to call God a liar.
>>>> Sorry - but things that are not proven to exist cannot be liars - only
>>>> the people like YOU who make up these stories are.
>>> So you really are one of those people that professes the fable that God is a
>>> myth.
>>
>> Since he is - and is already Disproven - it is the TRUTH
>
> Just as long as you profess the fable that God is a myth.
IT is NOT a fable
WE have already proven that a god as defined by christians - cannot
actually exist. Neither can ALLAH either.
A god cannot be ALL KNowing - Almighty - All good - ALL just - ALL
merciful - eternal - and everywhere. That desciption creates
impossibilities - which means it cannot be.
So - it could only exist as a fairy tale - ie - a MYTH
That YOU worship a MYTH who ordered his followers to commit genocide -
who DROWNED all the innocent children - doesn't even know when a fig
tree is in season - and created and is the source of all evil as the
ONLY creator - is something logical people will reject.
duke
>duke wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 05:13:01 -0800 (PST), ThomM <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 16, 7:17 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:21:12 -0800 (PST), ThomM <tommad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 15, 10:00 am, old man joe <ne...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> to say Mary had no sin is to call God a liar.
>>>>> Sorry - but things that are not proven to exist cannot be liars - only
>>>>> the people like YOU who make up these stories are.
>>>> So you really are one of those people that professes the fable that God is a
>>>> myth.
>>>
>>> Since he is - and is already Disproven - it is the TRUTH
>>
>> Just as long as you profess the fable that God is a myth.
>IT is NOT a fable
It's not only a fable, but it's YOUR fable.
>WE have already proven that a god as defined by christians - cannot
>actually exist. Neither can ALLAH either.
Well, Allah and almighty God are one and the same, but not the point.
>A god cannot be ALL KNowing - Almighty - All good - ALL just - ALL
>merciful - eternal - and everywhere. That desciption creates
>impossibilities - which means it cannot be.
With God almighty, nothing is impossible. After all, God created the universe
and all in it.
>So - it could only exist as a fairy tale - ie - a MYTH
That's what I said - you believe the fable that God is a myth.
>That YOU worship a MYTH who ordered his followers to commit genocide -
>who DROWNED all the innocent children
How many people did he drown?
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Thommadura wrote:
> >duke wrote:
>
> >WE have already proven that a god as defined by christians - cannot
> >actually exist. Neither can ALLAH either.
>
> Well, Allah and almighty God are one and the same, but not the point.
>
same'.
Mohammad threw out all the idols in the Kaaba except one. That one
was
Allah, the moon god - surely the reason why the crescent moon is atop
all mosques.
> >A god cannot be ALL Knowing - Almighty - All good - ALL just - ALL
> >merciful - eternal - and everywhere. That desciption creates
> >impossibilities - which means it cannot be.
>
> With God almighty, nothing is impossible. After all, God created the universe
> and all in it.
>
> >So - it could only exist as a fairy tale - ie - a MYTH
>
> That's what I said - you believe the fable that God is a myth.
>
> >That YOU worship a MYTH who ordered his followers to commit genocide -
> >who DROWNED all the innocent children
> How many people did he drown?
>
You are referring to the Flood in the time of Noah.
Genesis 6 : 5 - 6 God saw that the wickedness of man was great on the
earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
continually
And it repented the Lord that He had made man.
The fact is that the wickedness of parents do affect the attitudes of
their
children who, when adults, may be as wicked as parents or more so -
especially in the times over 4000 years ago. .
It was the work of prison reformers such as Elizabeth Fry, from memory
and I hope I am right - must check - John Howard was another person
who worked in the prisons. in England and others
that rehabilitation of offenders helped the return of such persons
back into their communities.
It is a fact that Christian prison Fellowships today reduces the
incidence
of recidivism on return to community life.
Gladys Swager
Fred Thomas
"s...@ozemail.com.au" <swa...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:eb251394-8716-4975...@i12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
No Gladys, it is not a fact Christian fellowships reduces recidivism. Studies
have shown virtually no difference between those involved with fellowship
programs and those not involved.
duke
>On Nov 17, 11:17�pm, duke wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Thommadura wrote:
>> >duke wrote:
>>
>> >WE have already proven that a god as defined by christians - cannot
>> >actually exist. Neither can ALLAH either.
>>
>> Well, Allah and almighty God are one and the same, but not the point.
>Allah of the Qur'an and God Almighty of the Bible are 'not one and the
>same'.
>Mohammad threw out all the idols in the Kaaba except one. That one
>was
>Allah, the moon god - surely the reason why the crescent moon is atop
>all mosques.
Abraham is called the father of the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim faiths.
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> >Allah of the Qur'an and God Almighty of the Bible are 'not one and the
> >same'.
> >Mohammad threw out all the idols in the Kaaba except one. That one
> >was Allah, the moon god - surely the reason why the crescent moon is atop
> >all mosques.
>
> Abraham is called the father of the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim faiths.
>
gave.
(I haven't come across taht idea in my readings)
as he used much of the Jewish and Christian scriptures for his own
teachings.
However, there were parts of the Jewish/Christian scriptures that he
corrupted
to suit his own purposes and told lie that the Jewish/Christian
scriptures
were the ones that were corrupted.
http://www.chick.com/bc/2000/samegod.asp
http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/compare.htm
Gladys Swager
duke
>On Nov 19, 12:01�am, duke wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 swa...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>> >On Nov 17, 11:17�pm, duke �wrote:
>>
>> >> Well, Allah and almighty God are one and the same, but not the point.
>> >Allah of the Qur'an and God Almighty of the Bible are 'not one and the
>> >same'.
>> >Mohammad threw out all the idols in the Kaaba except one. That one
>> >was Allah, the moon god - surely the reason why the crescent moon is atop
>> >all mosques.
>>
>> Abraham is called the father of the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim faiths.
>Mohammad may have called Abraham 'the father' of the teachings he
>gave. (I haven't come across taht idea in my readings)
>as he used much of the Jewish and Christian scriptures for his own
>teachings.
Try some Catholics books.
>However, there were parts of the Jewish/Christian scriptures that he
>corrupted
>to suit his own purposes and told lie that the Jewish/Christian
>scriptures
>were the ones that were corrupted.
>http://www.chick.com/bc/2000/samegod.asp
Good grief - you would go to the most disgusting site on the net - chick
tracts???
Now that's sick.
>
>http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/compare.htm
>
>Gladys Swager
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009swa...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
> >On Nov 19, 12:01 am, duke wrote:
> >> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 swa...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>
> >> Abraham is called the father of the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim faiths.
> >Mohammad may have called Abraham 'the father' of the teachings he
> >as he used much of the Jewish and Christian scriptures for his own
> >teachings.
>
> Try some Catholics books.
>
acceptance of Muslim's beliefs.
My introduction to Muslim's beliefs was in the context of a New
Testament
text being corrupted by Mohammad so that He gave the idea that Jesus
had predicted him, rather than John the Baptist had referred to
Jesus.
> >However, there were parts of the Jewish/Christian scriptures that he
> >corrupted to suit his own purposes and told lie that the Jewish/Christian
> >scriptures were the ones that were corrupted.
> >http://www.chick.com/bc/2000/samegod.asp
>
> Good grief - you would go to the most disgusting site on the net - chick
> tracts??? Now that's sick.
>
>Not 'sick'. Or is it that you can only read and accept those sites that
reinforce your RC indoctrinations? .
I became aware of Chick publications quite a number of years ago,
I would think, before I had an Internet installed on my computer.
They present in a way that often does not appeal to me, but I can
understand
that they are targetting a market. It is a matter whether they are
giving
truthful information. You would immediately disagree from the
opinions/
beliefs you hold.
Having reached the age I have in life I am aware how truth can be
presented
as error and how error can be presented as truth; and how persons can
be
misled when adequate contrary information is not available.
> >http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/compare.htm
Gladys Swager
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> swa...@ozemail.com.au wrote ..
> >On Nov 17, 11:17 pm, duke wrote:
>> > Well, Allah and almighty God are one and the same, but not the point.
>
>> Allah of the Qur'an and God Almighty of the Bible are 'not one and the
>> same'. Mohammad threw out all the idols in the Kaaba except one. That one
>> was Allah, the moon god - surely the reason why the crescent moon is atop
> >all mosques.
>
The following is a topic worthy of investigation in this matter.
Have Christians corrupted the Bible?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christians-corrupted-Bible.html
> It was the work of prison reformers such as Elizabeth Fry, from memory
> and I hope I am right - must check - John Howard was another person
> who worked in the prisons. in England and others
> that rehabilitation of offenders helped the return of such persons
> back into their communities.
> It is a fact that Christian Prison Fellowships today reduces the
> incidence of recidivism on return to community life.
>
> No Gladys, it is not a fact Christian fellowships reduces recidivism. Studies
> have shown virtually no difference between those involved with fellowship
> programs and those not involved.
Please give details of those studies,
and of the persons who conducted them with their websites. .
Gladys Swager
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> On Nov 18, 10:46 pm, "Fred Thomas" wrote:
> > swa...@ozemail.com.au wrote ..
>
> Have Christians corrupted the Bible?
> http://www.gotquestions.org/Christians-corrupted-Bible.html
>
> > incidence of recidivism on return to community life.
>
> > No Gladys, it is not a fact Christian fellowships reduces recidivism. Studies
> > have shown virtually no difference between those involved with fellowship
> > programs and those not involved.
>
> Please give details of those studies,
> and of the persons who conducted them with their websites. .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_Fellowship
http://www.prisonfellowship.org/why-pf/history-of-pf#1976
Gladys Swager
duke
>On Nov 20, 11:55�pm, duke wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009swa...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>> >On Nov 19, 12:01�am, duke wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 swa...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>>
>> >> Abraham is called the father of the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim faiths.
>> >Mohammad may have called Abraham 'the father' of the teachings he
>> >gave. �(I haven't come across that idea in my readings)
>> >as he used much of the Jewish and Christian scriptures for his own
>> >teachings.
>>
>> Try some Catholics books.
>What is a R.Catholic book that gives the reasons for the Vatican's
>acceptance of Muslim's beliefs.
???
>My introduction to Muslim's beliefs was in the context of a New
>Testament text being corrupted by Mohammad so that He gave the idea that Jesus
>had predicted him, rather than John the Baptist had referred to
>Jesus.
Abraham is called the father of the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim faiths.
>> >However, there were parts of the Jewish/Christian scriptures that he
>> >corrupted to suit his own purposes and told lie that the Jewish/Christian
>> >scriptures were the ones that were corrupted.
>> >http://www.chick.com/bc/2000/samegod.asp
>> Good grief - you would go to the most disgusting site on the net - chick
>> tracts??? Now that's sick.
>>
>>Not 'sick'.
Yes - SICK!!
>Or is it that you can only read and accept those sites that
>reinforce your RC indoctrinations? .
>I became aware of Chick publications quite a number of years ago,
It's the toilet bowl of publications. I hope you enjoy it.
>I would think, before I had an Internet installed on my computer.
>They present in a way that often does not appeal to me, but I can
>understand that they are targetting a market. It is a matter whether they are
>giving truthful information. You would immediately disagree from the
>opinions beliefs you hold.
CT is world-known dedicated garbage.