Why are there so few Buddhas?
Wantthat99
The texts list only a handful. Even if you assume there are more that we don't
know about, it's still a small number.
Compare to the billions of life forms dying and being born every day, and then
add up all the ones who have ever been born or have died. It makes me wonder if
Karma is working fairly. The wheel of fate is supposed to be a just system, a
means to achieve enlightenment. But when you look at the numbers it seems
hopeless.
tadperry
news:20020912005456...@mb-fk.aol.com...
> Why are there so few enlightened ones?
> The texts list only a handful. Even if you assume there are more that we
don't
> know about, it's still a small number.
What I've read and been taught on this particular matter is that the cosmos
is like a great lotus unfolding like clockwork, and like clockwork Buddha's
appear on Earth. They server various purposes. I mean, the Dalai Lama is the
Buddha of Compassion. His compassion is so great that he is reborn here over
and over and over trying to help you all get it. A guy like me has no
interest coming to this hell hole where none of you lift a finger to create
heaven on Earth. Me? I'd sign the order to wipe you all out if you don't all
start acting like you "get it".
Get what? Get the Golden Rule and get it good!
I think the idea that the world is heating up and your coastal cities are at
real risk, and yet you do nothing, is really funny.
Are you fools really going to continue buying plastic junk in mass
quantities and getting the latest DVD player and DVD disks and driving cars
all over the place?
Most of you are so totally mentally and psychologically enslaved by pop
culture and advertising that it's hopeless.
As you follow along, you are like lemmings heading over the cliff.
tvp
Evelyn Ruut
Dear Friend,
According to my teachers there have been many thousands of enlightened
beings (from many traditions). Not all are inclined to teach, especially
since the teachings which can bring us to enlightenment are still available.
(some links posted below where they can be found)
One cannot achieve enlightenment from any realm other than the human realm.
Some of the realms of being are such that it is very difficult to escape
from them for various reasons. A human birth is precious and rare and we
should make every effort to seek our enlightenment with great diligence.
Do not make the mistake of believing that there are few enlightened beings.
There are and have been a great many. They just don't speak about it much.
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Links for teachings and centers
http://www.kagyu.org
http://www.fpmt
http://www.accesstoinsight.org
Richard Gray
> Why are there so few enlightened ones?
> The texts list only a handful. Even if you assume there are more that we
don't
> know about, it's still a small number.
I think... I can answer this...
Now, I don't mean to split hairs here, but actually we're teeming with them.
How is this, you wonder...? Well, because all beings are essentially Buddhas
by their nature, the problem is that they might not necessarily realise it.
So the question you are asking is, perhaps more correctly, about
fully-realised Buddhas? I refer you to Evelyn's response on that part, and I
would add that as far as humans are concerned the more un-enlightened we
are, the less likely we are to recognise a realised Buddha.
It's funny, it's only last-night I was asking the same question!
Richard.
Paul Hume
Isn't that like asking why are there so few composers of genius?
Painters of genius? So few Mozarts, Shakespeares, da Vincis?
Achieving enlightenment appears, from the job descriptions, to be hard
work. Most people won't do hard work for ten minutes at a time, given
the chance to scamp it.
> The texts list only a handful. Even if you assume there are more that we don't
> know about, it's still a small number.
Wouldn't that depend on how many unknown enlightened beings there are?
> It makes me wonder if
> Karma is working fairly. The wheel of fate is supposed to be a just system, a
> means to achieve enlightenment. But when you look at the numbers it seems
> hopeless.
Is karma supposed to be fair? I am not asking rhetorically - I mean I
don't know the doctrinally correct answer to that in Buddhism. I
always gathered that the message of Sakyamuni was to the effect that
karma was a damned shame, and the point was to become free of it.
Fairness (or not) seems irrelevant in that context. Who promises it is
fair, or that karma exists as a means to seek enlightenment? I mean,
we could say the slavemaster's whip exists as a means to achieve
liberty, but that is not necessarily why the whip is wielded.
Given eternity in which to work, even big numbers are manageable, no?
Paul
Rebecca
I don't think anybody has any idea how many Buddhas there are --
assuming there is more than one, but that's a whole different
discussion.
I'm a little confused by the next part of your question. Karma is not
fate. It is not something outside us that makes things happen. It is
simply cause and effect. Karma is the process by which each of us
creates the environment we experience, including our inner
environment. It can't be fair or unfair, anymore than gravity can be
fair or unfair. Understanding karma is important to living a life with
enough leisure and endowment to practice the dharma, but I don't think
you could say that karma is a means of achieving enlightenment.
There is no "wheel of fate" that is a means to achieving
enlightenment. You don't earn enlightenment; I mean, you don't get
enlightened after you do enough "good" things.
If I've completely misunderstood you, my apologies.
Best wishes
Rebecca
William Tucker
----------
In article <20020912005456...@mb-fk.aol.com>, wantt...@aol.com
(Wantthat99) wrote:
There are plenty of advanced beings.
Not everyone likes a fuss made over them. There are plenty of clues, if you
could see on the astral level you would see other world(s) overlaid on this
one and so on...some one here said that Buddha didn't want to say as much as
he did except that there were different levels of insight in his audience
and in order to address them he had to display different facets of the same
gem or elephant(s)
Wm
J.
Interesting name, 'Wantthat,' of course I have to ask, 'What that, do you
want?' Then I'd have to ask,'How badly do you want that?'
In article <20020912005456...@mb-fk.aol.com>, wantt...@aol.com
(Wantthat99) writes:
>Why are there so few enlightened ones?
They are invisible. You just missed them. Sorry, they were here a moment
ago. They must have seen you coming. ; )
It isn't that there are so few enlightened ones, it is that you are unable to
see the enlightened ones for who they are, and also due to your own spiritual
development, attitude, and point of view.
>The texts list only a handful.
Actually there are texts that list infinite numbers of enlightened beings. ;
) Yes I know how can you list an infinite number? Read 'The Vimalakirti
Sutra,' 'The Lotus Sutra,' or 'The Flower Ornament Sutra.' There are lots of
enlightened beings listed in these texts. Too many to count, basically an
infinite number of enlightened beings.
From 'The Flower Ornament Sutra -- Book One -- The Wonderful Adornments of
the Leaders of the World'
"Thus have I heard, At that time the Buddha was in the land of Magadha, in a
state of purity, at the site of enlightenment, having just realized true
awareness." ...
"There were great enlightening beings numerous as the atoms in the ten
buddha-worlds surrounding him."
Throughout this scripture there are references to enlightening beings
"numerous as the atoms." Each pore of the Buddha is a buddha-world with its
own infinite number of enlightening beings, each hair follicle a
buddha-universe with its own infinite number of buddha-worlds and infinite
number of enlightening beings.
>Even if you assume there are more that we don't know about, it's still a small
>number.
All ya need is One. : )
>Compare to the billions of life forms dying and being born every day, and then
>add up all the ones who have ever been born or have died.
That's lots of beings. Probably trillions upon trillions. But of those
trillions upon trillions only human beings with a precious human life have been
able to attain/gain/wake up to Complete Buddhahood.
The pound slime we once divided from; the single-celled slithering colony
that unified into one being and then evolved into a higher order; the
vertebrate which swam in oceanic fluids, the footed fish that crawled from the
sea; the terrible lizards that roared through sky and ruled the lands and
oceans; the feathered forms flying in air and sea that survived from the
dragon's line; the furry night crawlers the tree climbers and earth diggers;
and the great primates of the forests, mountains, and jungles -- none of these
have the capacity to attain/gain/wake up to Complete Buddhahood. Only a human
being with a precious human life has the capacity to attain/gain/wake up to
Complete Buddhahood.
>It makes me wonder if Karma is working fairly. The wheel of fate is supposed
>to be a just system, a means to achieve enlightenment.
Ah ... *scratches head* Karma is not a wheel of fate, nor a system of
justice, and as a means to achieving enlightenment it is not the way.
Buddhist teachings about karma (action) are about the basic relationship and
the natural processes of causes and their results. It simply recognizes that
actions yield results and that there is a direct relationship between an action
and a result. For example if I plant a rose bush I will not harvest bananas in
the fall.
On a personal level karma (action) is what you do in life through your own
thoughts, words, and deeds -- and that is what determines the joys and sorrows,
the pleasures and pains of your own existence. Due to your thought patterns
(thinking is an action); due to your habits of speech; due to your habits of
behavior your own conditions and how you experience those conditions are
determined and manifest.
If my thought patterns are negative or pessimistic my speech pattern will
tend to also be negative. I may verbalize those negative thoughts, "Oh, I am
such an idiot." "I could never become enlightened in this life." "I am not
worthy enough to gain Buddhahood." "I can't." With all those anti-affirmations
floating around in my head and with them being constantly reinforced verbally,
is it really surprising that my behavior would be unconsciously conditioned to
further reinforce negative conditions? If I think, "I am an idiot," and I say
out loud, "I am an idiot," would it be really so odd that I behave like an
idiot?
Usually Buddhist bring up ethics and morality now, but I've noticed how
Westerners tend to start thinking like accountants and lawyers when Buddhists
are talking about ethics. The Law of Karma is like a natural law, you cannot
break it, any more than you stop water from being wet. The Law of Karma is
about the process of how nature works and is not about balancing the good and
the bad. There is no divine judge handing down a judgment. There is not
cosmic accountant setting your debt of payment against the universe.
If I paint a picture with bright colors, the result will be a painting with
bright colors. If I sing a happy song, the result will be happy thoughts,
which could lead to some dancing. Applying Buddhist ethics is like applying
the rules of any craft, discipline or art. Let's say I want to paint a
picture. First I must pick a medium, which would be like choosing a lineage or
a tradition. A choice of medium, like 'water-colors' is like a choice of
tradition, like 'the Nyingmapa tradition of Tibetan Buddhism.' The next step
is learning the tools and techniques of 'water-colors.' Then we learn how to
apply those tools and techniques on a practical level, within our daily
experience. We learn how to prepare the paper, we learn how to mix our paints,
we learn how to hold our brush just so, to make our stroke, just so. Over time
(with practice) we gain the skillfullness to paint water-color paintings -- and
the experience of gaining that skillfullness will result in painting new
thought patterns and will color our speech. We will begin to see as an artist.
We will begin to notice things that only other artists notice.
>But when you look at the numbers it seems hopeless.
Then rise above hope. To do that you'll need to let go of your fears and
that isn't so easy. Our fears are so very comfortable, we have had years (life
times) to cultivate and get used to them. Our fears, the result of our own
past actions.
The conditions of this life are due to your own past actions, the conditions
of the future are being determined right now by your current actions. The only
karma important is your own action(s) at this moment. So, if you cultivate
thoughts of hopelessness, and you reinforce those thoughts by verbalizing that
hopelessness, and then you reinforce those anti-affirmations by the physical
act of posting on usenet those thoughts of hopelessness -- don't you think that
might lead you to the conditions of hopelessness?
Pema Doru (And the monkey sits with a big smile, covered head to toe in
paint, as he finger-paints the conditions and the experience of his own
reality).
Rest in a sky-like mind.
Sit like a mountain floating on the earth.
Breathe like the wind circling the world.
thx1138az
to see them as plants and when I do... Poooff! instant potatoes... err... I
mean Buddha... err I mean Arhat. Yeah! definitely potatoes anyway.
Details... too many damned details. WEEDS! I say! you're all damned
weeds... I don't have time to sort you all out... so you're all weeds.
(Deep breath) OK... I'm a little calmer now... At least I'm a plant.. My
family are mostly plants. Oh yeah!... now she's definitely a plant... a
flowering plant at that. That guy I met at the supermarket is a plant.
Americans are all plants, but not Muslims... Well some are... all the Muslim
Americans are plants anyway. Canadians are almost Americans... so they must
be plants too.
(Another deep breath) Wow! weeds are plants too. No way! They can't be! But
they are. I know! yes!...not all plants are potatoes... that's it! Not all
plants are potatoes... So there!
(Yet another deep breath) Wait! How can I tell they're not potatoes unless I
unearth them and look for the potato? The soil is covering the roots and it
could be a potato. That means that they all could potentially be potatoes.
(Still another deep breath) Holy Smoke Screens! The soil is just an
obscuration of my mind. Now I can see a potato bud on all of the roots...
and on mine too.
(You guessed it... another breath) Now I can see deeper and I can see that
all of the root are interconnected and intertwined. We're one. We're the
same plant. A singular field of potatoes.
James
wantt...@aol.com (Wantthat99) wrote in message news:<20020912005456...@mb-fk.aol.com>...
Richard Gray
Richard.
Wantthat99
<<One cannot achieve enlightenment from any realm other than the human realm.>>
I've heard this before in other religions too.
Question is, why human? Why can't a dog achieve enlightenment? And why can't it
be achieved in any of the many other worlds?
Alan McClure
Dogs aren't capable of reflection, learning and meditation--at least not
that I'm aware of. So, they just respond on a very simple level to what
they experience. If they don't like something, or they suffer because of
it, they try to stay away from it, but don't realize why it is they are
suffering(the root), and can't think through the processes that end
suffering. On a simple level, they are not aware of the four noble truths
and aren't capable of learning them. Since this is a necessity for
attaining nirvana, they are just unfortunately not capable of such
attainment. Other beings have their own reasons for the inability of
attainment. You can read about them in many sutras. Hell beings, Hungry
ghosts, demi-gods and gods all are lacking in the ability to understand and
follow the 4 noble truths for one reason or another. For example, too much
contentment and happiness for renunciation in the case of gods, or far too
much suffering and pain to focus on anything else at all in the case of
hell-beings. I hope this clarifies a little. One of Chogyam Trungpa's
books does this topic justice, but I don't remember which. Maybe someone
else will further explain.
Alan
Wantthat99
<<Interesting name, 'Wantthat,' of course I have to ask, 'What that, do you
want?' Then I'd have to ask,'How badly do you want that?>>
It's an leftover ebay email address. Does that answer your question? Sorry
dude, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Wantthat99
I considered the possibility that there are many enlightened ones who became
Buddha that we do not know of. But...as I understand it, once full
enlightenment is reached, you are not reborn. There are billions of life forms
born here every day. You'd think the overall numbers would decrease and not
increase (is this making any sense?). Even if there is an infinite number of
enlightened beings throughout time, there's also an increase in life born on
this planet. Also, I was speaking of a fully realized Buddha (Buddha versus
Boddhisatta, is that correct?). Thus, an infinite # of Buddhas would be
nonsense, since they're all one?
Do we have eternity? I wonder. If enlightenment can only be found in the
"human" realm, how long will this realm last? After all, we've been on this
planet only a tiny fraction of it's entire history and seem headed for
extinction. Even if we don't finish ourselves off, there's always that stray
asteroid to do the job.
Or am I confusing enlightenment with Buddhahood? I assumed they were the same.
The wheel of fate, as I've understood is, is written of as a just system in
Buddhist literature. And the cause/effect system is a path towards
enlightenment, not enlightenment itself, yes, but a teaching tool in a sense,
and justice in another. The wheel is written of in positive terms in some of
the Buddhist literature I've read. Then there's that Zen tale that asks does a
fully enlightened being escape causation? (the answer is supposed to be he's
"one" with causation).
So here's another question. Absolutism is something to be avoided/transcended.
Does this mean then that the very system of causation, as it is (or maybe even
was), can be changed, or even has been? Is it itself an absolute, when there
are no absolutes?
In any case, there is a goal, a destination, that's supposed to be reached. As
benefits all, not just the individual. But the number of individuals and other
life are increasing on this planet, not decreasing, and mass extinction is
highly probably given time. In what realm then, if this does happen, will we
strive for enlightenment? Perhaps this is a nonsense question to an advanced
practitioner of Buddhism, but I still can't help wondering.
Richard Gray
> As to all the others replies, much thanks.
we can.
I will answer some of your questions, whilst leaving some others to those
better able and more experienced than me.
> I considered the possibility that there are many enlightened ones who
became
> Buddha that we do not know of. But...as I understand it, once full
> enlightenment is reached, you are not reborn.
Not necessarily, as I understand it. If you declare your intent to be a
Bodhisattva then you undertake to be reborn whatever, for the benefit of all
beings. Should you be suitably practised you will have a measure of control
over your rebirth, to a greater or lesser degree depending upon a number of
things.
<snip>
> There are billions of life forms
> born here every day. You'd think the overall numbers would decrease and
not
> increase (is this making any sense?). Even if there is an infinite number
of
> enlightened beings throughout time, there's also an increase in life born
on
> this planet.
It's probably worth bearing in mind that we're talking about all beings, not
just humans but beings generally. It's probably not possible to determine in
any realistic way an 'increase' or 'decrease' from on time to another.
<snip>
> Do we have eternity? I wonder. If enlightenment can only be found in the
> "human" realm, how long will this realm last? After all, we've been on
this
> planet only a tiny fraction of it's entire history and seem headed for
> extinction. Even if we don't finish ourselves off, there's always that
stray
> asteroid to do the job.
>
Somewhat more speculatively, we are talking about the universe, not just the
Earth; so potentially the number of beings and number of worlds involved in
this equation is imponderably vast. The odd stray asteroid obliterating
earth would probably be just a ripple in the overall number of beings in
'samsara'.
<snip>
> Or am I confusing enlightenment with Buddhahood? I assumed they were the
same.
<snip>
This is a very awkward question, kind-of apples and pears. I'm going to just
say that a realised Buddha will be enlightened.
<snip>
> Perhaps this is a nonsense question to an advanced
> practitioner of Buddhism, but I still can't help wondering.
One always hopes for a compassionate response to any question given in the
hope that your understanding is improved, your path to happiness is eased
and your suffering ameliorated. Only someone devoured by their own ego would
consider a question unworthy of their superior insights.
Richard.
tadperry
news:dK3g9.1443$Le2.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
True. It seems that such things have confused people to a degree.
If the Buddha gave advice to a person struggling with a specific issue
(let's just say the tired old "Is there a God?" question) what he said on
the issue was diligently noted.
Much later, when we read it now, we must remember we are not exactly the
intended audience. His message is for a person at the level of the person
(people) being addressed at the time.
I want to try to clear this matter up in no uncertain terms for there are
Christians who feel Buddhism is actually evil, or devil worship, and will
not look at it or give it the least bit of consideration.
What I would say is that some people envision one thing when they say "God"
and others envision another.
Perhaps it's presumptuous to speak on the Buddha's behalf on this point, but
I have direct experience in this lifetime that allows me to say that there
is a concept of God that makes complete sense at certain levels of
attainment (can be quite high).
There are other concepts that are called "God" by some people in the world,
and these other concepts of God are nonsense.
When reading anything the Buddha says on the subject, it's good to
understand exactly what is being called "God" when the Buddha rejects it.
For instance, I've recommended the book "How to Know God" which is a
translation of the aphorisms of Patanjali. It is obviously heavily
influenced by Buddhism as it is from India at a point in time when Buddhism
was at (or approaching) it's zenith.
The Buddha likens "God" to a raft across a river that should not be carried
any further upon reaching the opposite shore.
The reason for this analogy is worth contemplating.
tvp
Evelyn Ruut
In almost any dharma book the 6 realms are described along with the various
reasons that one cannot attain enlightenment from any but the human realm.
Animals are driven by their instincts, hormones and needs and have no
choices about their lives. Only from the human realm do we have free
choice to practice and to apply ourselves to freeing ourselves from the
wheel of existence. I would not be able to do it justice to try and
explain this properly here. I would suggest that you do a little reading
on the realms of existence. Which brings me to another issue..... have
you done any serious reading on buddhism? I could suggest some books that
might be of help to you.
Best Regards,
Evelyn
William Tucker
----------
In article <20020914164528...@mb-cm.aol.com>, wantt...@aol.com
(Wantthat99) wrote:
Actually I'm pretty sure cats can...at least they have an astral body...cat
sitting on a dragon kinda thing
Wm
tadperry
It is because of the level of evolution of the human mind. At the highest
levels of operation, there are aspects of divinity within humans.
Consider one of the occult symbols of the Christ (a divine human): it is two
circles, one on top of another, touching at a single point. (The Cross, a
more common symbol emphasizes the point of connection, while also
symbolizing the duality of living in the material horizontal plane versus
the vertical spiritual one.)
The circle on the bottom represents the human realm and at the top it just
barely connects in that one point to the divine realm above.
A human living in the bottom circle may not comprehend or believe the
potential of one living in the top circle.
Consider that this world is a test and that something is meant to be learned
here.
tvp
Gileht.com
"tadperry" <tadp...@attbi.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
Z61h9.486702$UU1.78398@sccrnsc03...
Hummm ... what all of this has to do with Buddhism ?
J.
In article <20020914171358...@mb-cm.aol.com>, wantt...@aol.com
(Wantthat99) writes:
>
>As to all the others replies, much thanks.
>
>I considered the possibility that there are many enlightened ones who became
>Buddha that we do not know of. But...as I understand it, once full
>enlightenment is reached, you are not reborn.
Buddhas obtain freedom. Buddhas are no longer governed by the dualism of
samsara/nirvana.
>There are billions of life forms born here every day. You'd think the overall
numbers >would decrease and not increase (is this making any sense?). Even if
there is an >infinite number of enlightened beings throughout time, there's
also an increase in >life born on this planet. Also, I was speaking of a fully
realized Buddha (Buddha >versus Boddhisatta, is that correct?). Thus, an
infinite # of Buddhas would be
>nonsense, since they're all one?
They are of one enlightened mind, not of one entity. If I were to attain
enlightenment at this moment I won't suddenly become the Buddha Shakaymuni, or
any other Buddha. I'll still be me (sans that separate self sense), just an
enlightened me.
>Do we have eternity? I wonder.
No!
> If enlightenment can only be found in the "human" realm, how long will this
realm >last?
It won't last. How long will this realm last? Who can say, tomorrow or
10,000 years from now? What is even more important is this human life you are
living right now -- it won't last either and it could end tomorrow. Really
doubtful you could stretch it out to 10,000 years, much less another 50.
>After all, we've been on this planet only a tiny fraction of it's entire
history and >seem headed for extinction.
Ah ... actually there has been several extinction events on the planet earth.
Our time will come.
>Even if we don't finish ourselves off, there's always that stray asteroid to
do the job.
Yep. So what are you waiting for? If you are going to attain enlightenment
better get busy.
>Or am I confusing enlightenment with Buddhahood? I assumed they were the
>same.
There is personal enlightenment, and there is Complete Buddhahood.
>The wheel of fate, as I've understood is, is written of as a just system in
>Buddhist literature.
Nope. First, it is not a wheel of 'fate.' There is no pre-written destiny
that will be forced upon you. Your life is completely in your own hands.
Second, the term justice is a culturally developed human concept. In Buddhist
literature the use of different culturally developed human concepts to explain
the Dharma is because that is what we are familiar with. A good teacher
explains the teachings in a way that their students can identify with those
teaching within the context of their own lives.
>And the cause/effect system is a path towards enlightenment, not enlightenment
>itself, yes, but a teaching tool in a sense, and justice in another.
Nope. The law of karma is simply how reality works. Understanding how
reality works is the first step to changing one's life in a mindful manner.
Imagine a farmer who wants to harvest corn. If he doesn't know how reality
(that includes nature) works he could end up with nothing in the fall or maybe
blueberries. Learning how reality works, that same farmer will prepare the
earth for the seed. Plant corn seeds and not mistaken blueberry seeds. He
will water when appropriate (not too much) and fertilize as needed. He will
weed and protect the field from pests. And finally in the fall he will harvest
corn. The culturally developed human concept called justice has nothing to do
with any of that. The crow isn't "bad" for stealing seeds. The farmer isn't
"bad" for shooing away the crow.
>The wheel is written of in positive terms in some of the Buddhist literature
I've read.
It is positive. Due to the way reality works, Buddhahood is a real
possibility. Understanding how reality works the Buddhist works "with" reality
to obtain Buddhahood. Ordinary beings tend to work against reality.
>Then there's that Zen tale that asks does a fully enlightened being escape
>causation? (the answer is supposed to be he's "one" with causation).
That's an intellectual response to a Zen koan. Not necessarily a "bad"
response, for an intellectual one. The traditional response was "he is not
blind to causation." That leaves the door open to a more nondualistic
understanding then simply saying, "he's 'one' with causation."
>So here's another question. Absolutism is something to be avoided/transcended.
Well, its really only half of the equation.
>Does this mean then that the very system of causation, as it is (or maybe
>even was), can be changed, or even has been?
Nope.
>Is it itself an absolute, when there are no absolutes?
The law of karma is not an it. It is not an entity.
>In any case, there is a goal, a destination, that's supposed to be reached.
The destination is not a place. The goal is not something you win.
>As benefits all, not just the individual. But the number of individuals and
>other life are increasing on this planet, not decreasing, and mass extinction
is
>highly probably given time.
So ... I guess this means you should hurry up and start practicing.
>In what realm then, if this does happen, will we strive for enlightenment?
Perhaps you'll have all the merit you need to be born in a nice Pure Land,
but do you really want to wait around and find out? Next time around we could
be strange aliens with six-arms and four eyes, yet still governed by our
instincts and ego cravings, still stuck in samsara. Why delay your own
enlightenment -- this is your chance, this realm, this life, this moment, don't
waste what time you do have, particularly on questions that are really
unaswerable. Well, unaswerable until you gain enlightenment.
>Perhaps this is a nonsense question to an advanced practitioner of Buddhism,
Perhaps a delaying tactic by the ego.
>but I still can't help wondering.
Wonderment is wonderful, but wondering that's just daydreams that get in the
way of any real cultivation.
J.
>
>From: "Evelyn Ruut"mama...@ulster.net
>
><<One cannot achieve enlightenment from any realm other than the human
>realm.>>
>
>I've heard this before in other religions too. Question is, why human? Why
>can't a dog achieve enlightenment?
A dog does not have the capacity to achieve enlightenment. It can't learn
how to contemplate or practice the Buddhadharma. It cannot learn how to mumble
mantras and prayers, or sit properly in samadhi. There really not built for
doing any bowing or prostrations.
>And why can't it be achieved in any of the many other worlds?
What's the point of asking? Are you planning on going to another world?
Really, there is no need to go anywhere to find what you need to achived
enlightenment. It can be done from right where you are right now. The most
important world right now is the one your own.
Pema Doru (And the monkey bows).
J.
In article <20020914165817...@mb-cm.aol.com>, wantt...@aol.com
(Wantthat99) writes:
Oh, I don't know about that ... the leftover ebay email address (a place
where people buy and sell things they want), of 'Wantthat,' I think even Freud
would have found that somewhat telling, particularly in the context of you
choosing it as a handle to address a Buddhist newsgroup. Perhaps those with a
little more familiarity with Buddhist teachings will see the irony. That you
are unaware of the absurdity is also interesting, but not in a Freudian sense.
Pema Doru (And the monkey rolls around on the ground in a fit of laughter).
LongDang
"A human birth is precious and rare and we should make every
effort to seek our enlightenment with great diligence...."
how do you explain all the losers and idiots born every day who
are happy to remain losers and idiots?
Evelyn Ruut wrote in message ...
LongDang
and you will be free!
Then you won't have to come back to this hell hole...Tadpole...
and we might have heaven here on earth!
tadperry wrote in message ...
LongDang
The reason a dog can not achieve enlightenment is
because....Wambat..... a dog is already enlightened!
Humans are the only assholes who look for something that has
never been lost!
Wantthat99 wrote in message
<20020914164528...@mb-cm.aol.com>...
news.tvd.be
I never thought that we were completely free in this life. If your destiny
is to be an idiot, then you will be one and you cannot change this destiny.
Each person is born with a destiny which is defined in advance by a planner.
If your destiny is to be a criminal, be one......as long as you execute the
program you were designed for, everything will be ok with you. If you
refuse to accept your destiny, then you will experience depression and a lot
of trouble.
You do not really choose.. in this existence although you have the illusion
to choose.
We are part of a plan which is in execution, sometimes we are criminals,
sometimes we are peacemakers, no importance, let it be.
If you try to convert a criminal to a peacemaker, you will fail... because
his destiny was to be a criminal.
If you try to convert a jazz singer to a engineer, you will fail because his
destiny was to become a jazz singer.
Kind greetings from Belgium
Bruno
LongDang a écrit dans le message <3d84f...@news.iglou.com>...
Evelyn Ruut
"LongDang" <L...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d84f...@news.iglou.com...
> Eve in a ruut.. when you say.....
>
> "A human birth is precious and rare and we should make every
> effort to seek our enlightenment with great diligence...."
>
> how do you explain all the losers and idiots born every day who
> are happy to remain losers and idiots?
Long dang,
Do I have to? I didn't think that was my job.....
Actually like shit, losers and idiots just "happen".....
:-)
Ev.
LongDang
should be!
J. wrote in message
<20020915135908...@mb-fm.aol.com>...
LongDang
thx1138az wrote in message ...
>(You guessed it... another breath) Now I can see deeper and I
can see that
>all of the root are interconnected and intertwined. We're one.
We're the
>same plant. A singular field of potatoes.
>
>James
James.......how then do you explain.....my potatos being much
larger than yours?
LongDang
Evelyn Ruut wrote in message ...
>
>news:3d84f...@news.iglou.com...
>> Eve in a ruut.. when you say.....
>>
>> "A human birth is precious and rare and we should make every
>> effort to seek our enlightenment with great diligence...."
>>
>> how do you explain all the losers and idiots born every day
who
>> are happy to remain losers and idiots?
>
>Long dang,
>
>Do I have to? I didn't think that was my job.....
>Actually like shit, losers and idiots just "happen".....
So.....Eve.....are you saying.....you are an idiot
loser ?
Evelyn Ruut
>
> Evelyn Ruut wrote in message ...
> >
> >"LongDang" <L...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3d84f...@news.iglou.com...
> >> Eve in a ruut.. when you say.....
> >>
> >> "A human birth is precious and rare and we should make every
> >> effort to seek our enlightenment with great diligence...."
> >>
> >> how do you explain all the losers and idiots born every day
> who
> >> are happy to remain losers and idiots?
> >
> >Long dang,
> >
> >Do I have to? I didn't think that was my job.....
> >Actually like shit, losers and idiots just "happen".....
>
> So.....Eve.....are you saying.....you are an idiot
> loser ?
No. You asked me to EXPLAIN the idiots and losers who are happy to remain
so.
Evelyn
news.tvd.be
I think you are born as a looser or a winner and all the rest depends upon
our education and environment.
If our parents were cultivated persons, then we will read books, obtain
ideas.
We are born with a target, a destination and we cannot escape to it despite
the number of efforts we put to change the direction in our lifes.
If you are born in a criminal environment, you stay a criminal, if you are
born in a
good moral family, there are many chances that you will not harm a fly.
We think we have much liberty, but have we ?????
It is a question which obsess me for a long time now.
I would like to hear other opinions on the subject.
Kind greetings
Bruno
Evelyn Ruut a écrit dans le message ...
Tang Huyen
Evelyn Ruut wrote:
> "LongDang"
>
> > Evelyn Ruut
>
> > >"LongDang"
>
> > >> Eve in a ruut.. when you say.....
> > >>
> > >> "A human birth is precious and rare and we should make every
> > >> effort to seek our enlightenment with great diligence...."
> > >>
> > >> how do you explain all the losers and idiots born every day
> > >> who are happy to remain losers and idiots?
> > >
> > >Long dang,
> > >
> > >Do I have to? I didn't think that was my job.....
> > >Actually like shit, losers and idiots just "happen".....
> >
> > So.....Eve.....are you saying.....you are an idiot
> > loser ?
>
> No. You asked me to EXPLAIN the idiots and losers who are
> happy to remain so.
>
> Evelyn
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Our Evvie jumps ship, cleanly!
All these years, she opposed God because God was arbitrary and subject to no
Law (he himself is supposed to *say* the Law), and she supported Buddhism
because Buddhism taught rebirth and causes-and-effects, popularly known as the
law of deed (karman) and its return, and now she flatly declares:
<<Actually like shit, losers and idiots just "happen".....>>
So now she implicitly rejects rebirth and causes-and-effects (the law of deed
and its return) in the explanation of losers and idiots and shit, and relegates
them to the same realm as that governed by God: namely sheer caprice, pure and
utter arbitrariness, for which there is no accounting whatsoever!
In Buddhist terms, she relegates them to a-causality (a-hetu-vada). Now let’s
see what her literalist and fundie ally Punnie has to say about that!
Just two months ago, she piously wrote:
<<A belief in a creator god who is outside of and above oneself, takes the
onus and responsibility off of oneself for ones circumstances and actions
and consequences. In Buddhist philosophy, to quote a bit from the 7
points of mind training, we "drive all blames into one"..... No belief in
any outside being or super being to save us, or rescue us, or forgive us.
Buddhism is the ultimate in self responsibility>>
So, from 'we "drive all blames into one"..... ', she jumps cleanly to 'Actually
like shit, losers and idiots just "happen".....', meaning that there is *no*
blames, no rebirth, no deed and its return, but just blind chance! There is
zip, zero, zilch self-responsibility!
If that is where the fundies like Punnie and Evvie (up to yesterday) are "at"
then fine, but if you really want to know the truth, know how the cosmos ticks,
you have to pull the mask off "rebirth and deed and its return"...... Namely,
all the irredeemable crap that the Tibetan religion teaches!!!
Tang 'it just "happen".....' Huyen
**************************************
From: Evelyn Ruut (mama...@ulster.net)
Subject: Re: Buddha: Atheist or God?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,
alt.religion.buddhism, alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan
Date: 2002-07-07 19:07:15 PST
"Deborah McCarter" <dmcc...@aikenelectric.net> wrote in message
news:4efhiug6asqulttj5...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 07 Jul 2002 19:43:36 -0400, Tang Huyen <tang_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Mizar5 wrote: <<we find no recorded instance of the buda either
> >having asserted that he did not believe in god or
> >of his having denied outright the existence of god.
> >
> >the buda's actual recorded position was metaphysical
> >questions of this nature (ie the existence of god) r irrelevent
> >& unworthy of discussion as not leading to awakening.
> >to label him either theist or atheist is incorrect.>>
> >
> >Jigme luvvie, You are both rigid and forgetful. Rigid because you are
repeating
> >almost literally what you said in February last year, and forgetful because
you
> >forgot the quote that I produced in reply to you.
> >
> >See the thread "Re: Hallelujah !" and "Re: Hallelujah! Bogus Buddhism!"
> >
> >As to the existence of a Creator/God, there is no doubt that the Buddha
> >*rejected it*, which is definitely a position. He did not refrain from
making
> >it, and therefore obviously did not take it to be irrelevant. Kalupahana,
> >Causality, 22, quotes:
> >
> >"For those who fall back on the idea of creation by God as the essential
reason,
> >there is neither desire or effort, nor the sense of 'ought' or 'ought not'".
> >Such a doctrine will lead to inaction (a-kiriya). AN, I, 174, MA, 435b.
> >
> >The Buddha evidently took the acceptance of a Creator/God as harmful
> >and to be rejected.
> How would Buddha explain Jesus Christ? He may not have believed in
> God, but to deem such belief as harmful is very limited thinking and
> hard for me to accept.
Dear Deborah,
A belief in a creator god who is outside of and above oneself, takes the
onus and responsibility off of oneself for ones circumstances and actions
and consequences. In Buddhist philosophy, to quote a bit from the 7
points of mind training, we "drive all blames into one"..... No belief in
any outside being or super being to save us, or rescue us, or forgive us.
Buddhism is the ultimate in self responsibility, although you might be hard
pressed to recognize that fact from newsgroup postings. That is, briefly,
the theory.
Although it is immensely appealing to think that there is some "big daddy in
the sky" who is watching YOU, it is a myth and a creation. It is a
visualization of sorts. In buddhism we have visualizations too, but we
know that is what they are and do not ascribe independent existence to them.
Believing that this imaginary being not only exists but loves you, is just
self comforting and thinking pretty thoughts. If that is where you are
"at" then fine, but if you really want to know the truth, know how the
cosmos ticks, you have to pull the mask off "god"......
Regards,
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruut
"Tang Huyen" <tang_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3D8659B6...@yahoo.com...
Tangie, you never did learn the difference when someone is joking or
speaking seriously........LOL!
Ev.
Evelyn Ruut
"news.tvd.be" <bruno....@tvd.be> wrote in message
news:Aqrh9.49414$2a.34...@amsnews02.chello.com...
> Hello Ev,
>
> I think you are born as a looser or a winner and all the rest depends upon
> our education and environment.
> If our parents were cultivated persons, then we will read books, obtain
> ideas.
> We are born with a target, a destination and we cannot escape to it
despite
> the number of efforts we put to change the direction in our lifes.
> If you are born in a criminal environment, you stay a criminal, if you are
> born in a
> good moral family, there are many chances that you will not harm a fly.
> We think we have much liberty, but have we ?????
> It is a question which obsess me for a long time now.
> I would like to hear other opinions on the subject.
>
> Kind greetings
>
> Bruno
Dear Bruno,
I have known people (and so may you) who came from good moral families who
were criminals, and I have known people who came from pure trash who were
fine upstanding honest people. I also knew losers who became winners, and
winners who became losers. So neither birth circumstances or environment
cannot be all of it.
We human beings all have free will and if the buddhists are to be believed
we also have karma and past life influences, an agenda that we brought with
us to this life for good or for bad.
Anyone who thinks they can know or understand what makes a person do
anything is guessing. Sometimes even the person themselves doesn't
understand why they do things. This is why I didn't even attempt to
EXPLAIN why losers or idiots do what they do. Nobody can explain why
people do what they do, they can only speculate, guess, or imagine.
According to many teachers I have heard, they say that all living beings
want to be happy. What makes a person happy may be something very strange
indeed. For instance, can anyone say why Tang gets his happiness from
tormenting others? He has to always have a victim, and will go to any ends
to find one and finding none, will return to an old one if need be.
I am happy if I can offer someone a word of comfort, or help them find their
way, or help a person sort things out for themselves. I am happy when
there is harmony and peace. I am happy when I see my loved ones happy. I
am unhappy when I see dissent, sadness, confusion, sorrow.
Sometimes life is really rotten. But it isn't always rotten. If I had my
choice I would choose for it to be good and peaceful. But as I pointed out
that is not always what makes other people happy.
So I still don't have an answer for Long Dang or anyone else, as to why
idiots or losers do the things they do.
Regards,
Evelyn
LongDang
Evelyn Ruut wrote in message
>
>"Tang Huyen" <tang_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:3D8659B6...@yahoo.com...
>
>Tangie, you never did learn the difference when someone is
joking or
>speaking seriously........LOL!
Don't worry....Evebabe! Your secret is safe with me!
Ch'an Fu
Evelyn Ruut wrote:
> According to many teachers I have heard, they say that all living beings
> want to be happy. What makes a person happy may be something very strange
> indeed. For instance, can anyone say why Tang gets his happiness from
> tormenting others? He has to always have a victim, and will go to any ends
> to find one and finding none, will return to an old one if need be.
do you find torment there?
if so, it's your own.
do you know of his happiness?
phah! his happiness is only
a dream.
are you a professional victim?
stalking your killer as a rabbit
stalks a wolf?
or just an amateur, haunting the
street corner and waiting - hopefully -
like a bride, to be ravished so that
you can bloom in self-righteous
indignation when your precious 'teachers'
or beliefs are seen for what they are.
and your mother's words echo
in your ears, "men are swine,
but you are pure..."
when you can no longer find
your face in a jar by the door,
where will it be?
Evelyn Ruut
>
> Evelyn Ruut wrote in message
> <1tvh9.14050$17.65...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net>...
> >
> >"Tang Huyen" <tang_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:3D8659B6...@yahoo.com...
> >
> >Tangie, you never did learn the difference when someone is
> joking or
> >speaking seriously........LOL!
>
>
> Don't worry....Evebabe! Your secret is safe with me!
Secret !!!!!!!?
LOL!
Ev.
matthew
> > > >Actually like shit, losers and idiots just "happen".....
> > >
selves
LongDang
Ch'an Fu wrote in message <3D868BC2...@metta.lk>...
Cha'nfoo.......if you don't stop telling the truth......I'll have
to come through this screen.....and wash your mouth out with
soap!
LongDang
matthew wrote in message ...
Mathpew....when you say......"shit is created by idots that are
losers who can't win against thier own selves".....are you saying
you are an idiot loser....or......that you have never taken a
good shit?
>
o
It still doesn't address the issue of why some choose incorrectly.
Life is nature at work
Everything in nature gets what it needs
In the present moment.
If you are getting suffering, it is what nature says you need
right now, to fix you up.
It's a message from nature that you are on the wrong path.
To end the suffering, all we need to do is follow these prompts from nature
That is what we as humans have been given - free choice.
Unfortunately, there are those who would revel
in the sorrows and miseries of their own lives
unable to understand the simple message of nature,
for the message is:
"live for your self alone and suffer
live for the good of all and end suffering".
This truth has been lost to the world - how sad.
This is the heart of the Buddha's message -
right thought, right action, right livelihood
for when we go against nature
we pay the price.
And no amount of prozac will fix that.
:)
o
Evelyn Ruut
"o" <nos...@soimnotletingon.com> wrote in message
news:RNwh9.7008$Y3.14...@news.xtra.co.nz...
YES! Too bad so few realize it.
Regards,
Evelyn
cupcake
>
> Re: Why are there so few Buddhas?
>
> From: "Evelyn Ruut" <mama...@ulster.net>
> Reply to: [1]"Evelyn Ruut"
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:10:06 GMT
> Organization: BiznessOnline.com, Inc.
> Newsgroups:
> [2]alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan,
> [3]talk.religion.buddhism,
> [4]alt.zen
> Followup to: [5]newsgroups
> References:
> [6]<20020912005456...@mb-fk.aol.com>
> [7]<zk%f9.13859$17.64...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net>
> [8]<3d84f...@news.iglou.com>
> [9]<bx8h9.13988$17.65...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net>
> [10]<3d854...@news.iglou.com>
> [11]<j_ih9.14013$17.65...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net>
> [12]<Aqrh9.49414$2a.34...@amsnews02.chello.com>
> [13]<vFvh9.14051$17.65...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net>
> [14]<3D868BC2...@metta.lk>
> [15]<3d8695ca$1...@news.iglou.com>
> [16]<RNwh9.7008$Y3.14...@news.xtra.co.nz>>[17]news:RNwh9.7008$Y3.14...@news.xtra.co.nz...>> [18]news:3d8695ca$1...@news.iglou.com...
yet, more "shit pot" wisdom from Evilyn the
Vajra Nut in a Rut
> Regards,
> Evelyn
>
Ch'an Fu
Choice is lost in delusion and there is no such question.
> Life is nature at work
> Everything in nature gets what it needs
> In the present moment.
> If you are getting suffering, it is what nature says you need
> right now, to fix you up.
> It's a message from nature that you are on the wrong path.
'god' - 'nature'... what'll we call it next? fate?
> To end the suffering, all we need to do is follow these prompts from nature
> That is what we as humans have been given - free choice.
> Unfortunately, there are those who would revel
> in the sorrows and miseries of their own lives
> unable to understand the simple message of nature,
> for the message is:
>
> "live for your self alone and suffer
> live for the good of all and end suffering".
the xian message, indeed.
buddha's message is far more subtle
and practical. other cannot be dropped -
only 'self'.
"No one purifies another.
Never neglect your work for another's,
No matter how great his need."
- dp 12
> This truth has been lost to the world - how sad.
>
> This is the heart of the Buddha's message -
> right thought, right action, right livelihood
those are pointers to aid practice and understanding,
not practice and understanding per se.
mistaking these for buddhism is to throw it all away.
> for when we go against nature
> we pay the price.
buddhism indeed 'goes against the stream' -
against habits of thought and habits of philosophy,
habits of culture and religion. so it is
'unnatural'. the 'natural' way is delusion and
illusion. there are many practitioners of the
'natural way'. turning dharma into taoism or xian dogma
will do nothing to awaken these dreamers.
Tang Huyen
Evelyn Ruut wrote:
> "Tang Huyen" <tang_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3D8659B6...@yahoo.com...
>
> Tangie, you never did learn the difference when someone is joking or
> speaking seriously........LOL!
>
> Ev.
I take it that when you reply to LongDang: 'Actually like shit, losers and
idiots just "happen".....', you're serious and telling it straight, but when you
prattle the pieties of the Tibetan religion, like rebirth and mind-training,
you're just joking and laughing between your teeth, as you use the Tibetan
religion merely as a tool for your own purpose, namely parading your ego on
these boards and getting it stroked.
Tang Huyen
Tang Huyen
LongDang wrote:
Our Ch'an Fu can be trusted to tell the truth, the hard truth, the truth
that makes us incomfortable but that will free us.
Tang Huyen
Tang Huyen
Ch'an Fu wrote:
Excellent, Ch'an Fu!
Tang Huyen
J.
In article <3d84f...@news.iglou.com>, "LongDang" <L...@hotmail.com> writes:
>The answer is simple... Wambat...
>The reason a dog can not achieve enlightenment is
>because....Wambat..... a dog is already enlightened!
Ah ... you mean that furry creature that drinks water out of the toilet
bowel, craps wherever it wants to, and regularly orally cleans it's genitals in
front of anyone? Na, Fido is ignorantly blissful, not enlightened. Even if
being able to clean oneself is a cool trick, I doubt a Buddha would do that in
public. The Buddha warns practitioners against showing off spiritual powers. :
)
Pema Dour (And the monkey bows).
J.
In article <3d854...@news.iglou.com>, "LongDang" <L...@hotmail.com> writes:
>Are you a buddha........J-Man.? Because if you're not......you
>should be!
LOL! -- would've, should've, could've? Na, I'm too busy cleaning myself.
Pema Doru (And the monkey bows).
Pema Doru (And magically the monkey appears)!
J.
>Eve in a ruut.. when you say.....
>
>"A human birth is precious and rare and we should make every
>effort to seek our enlightenment with great diligence...."
>
>how do you explain all the losers and idiots born every day who
>are happy to remain losers and idiots?
Just being born a human being is not a precious human birth. One also needs
to have all of the positive qualities and all the positive conditions to
practice the Dharma. If your not born in a free country, or if your attitude
is very negative and you are ignorant of the potential of Buddhahood -- well
being a loser and an idiot would be quite natural, but it would not be a
precious human birth.
Pema Doru (And the monkey bows).
Rest in a sky-like mind.
Gileht.com
"J." <pema...@aol.comnojunk> a écrit dans le message de news:
20020917111104...@mb-cf.aol.com...
And you need a green card !
:-)))
Gileht
o
Ch'an Fu <Cha...@metta.lk> wrote in message
news:3D870922...@metta.lk...
To call anything "Buddhism" is to create division where none exists
>
> > for when we go against nature
> > we pay the price.
>
> buddhism indeed 'goes against the stream' -
> against habits of thought and habits of philosophy,
> habits of culture and religion. so it is
> 'unnatural'. the 'natural' way is delusion and
> illusion. there are many practitioners of the
> 'natural way'. turning dharma into taoism or xian dogma
> will do nothing to awaken these dreamers.
lol
o
you really don't see the division you create?
you surprise me, Tang.
you will find no mention in anything I post of groups of anything
look at what you and Cha'n post
It is completely divisive
no wonder the world is in the state it is.
wake up, all of you, before it is too late
Ch'an Fu
o wrote:
> To call anything "Buddhism" is to create division where none exists
pizza
Pyrrho
Why so edgy, Brian? Did someone steal your pizza?
Shiva
Evelyn Ruut
> you surprise me, Tang.
> you will find no mention in anything I post of groups of anything
> look at what you and Cha'n post
> It is completely divisive
> no wonder the world is in the state it is.
> wake up, all of you, before it is too late
If only they could.
Evelyn
J.
Long time since, hope everything is doing well, *waves hello.*
Look below for comments ; )
In article <VV6h9.34192$2a.23...@amsnews02.chello.com>, "news.tvd.be"
<bruno....@tvd.be> writes:
>Hello,
>
>I never thought that we were completely free in this life.
Mmmm, never ..? I'd say that there are different degrees of freedom in this
world and in this life. An idiot isn't very free, a criminal is even less
free, while a peacemaker lives a much freer life, and an enlightened being is
an embodiment of freedom.
>If your destiny is to be an idiot, then you will be one and you cannot change
>this destiny.
I'd have to say, I disagree. If "I think" I am an idiot then one could say I
am destined to become an idiot, but that is a self-fulfilling prophecy, not
something written in the stars. All I'd need to do to change that destiny is
change my mind. Stop seeing myself "as an idiot" would be the first step to
stop acting like one and having the destiny of an idiot's life conditions.
>Each person is born with a destiny which is defined in advance by a planner.
Nope. There is no planner, nor any person forced into some predetermined
role. Life is an improvisational dance, not a set of pre-planned steps. There
is no one else to blame. I can neither thank nor curse any planner other than
my own self.
>If your destiny is to be a criminal, be one......
Create your own destiny, be who you are by choosing who you want to become,
then act accordingly. Choosing to be a criminal will bring you the life of a
criminal, not a happy place for anyone. A depressing lifestyle the criminal
life.
>as long as you execute the program you were designed for, everything will be
ok >with you.
There is no designer, nor any you that needs to run a program, still there is
a need to make decisions and to act accordingly. Thinking your destiny is
fixed only fixes your destiny.
>If you refuse to accept your destiny, then you will experience depression and
a lot >of trouble.
You will experience depression if you think depressing thoughts, speak
depressing anti-affirmations, or actively live a depressing life. You will
experience trouble if you plan, talk about, and act out behavior that harms
(causes trouble for) either oneself or others. Soon the other will have enough
and respond in kind, or you will kill yourself through your own behavior. What
child is born with the destiny of becoming a drug addict? What child even
wants to be a street prostitute or a prisoner on death row when they grow up?
Thinking it is your destiny to be on death row is one sure way of getting
there. I really doubt that would be fulfilling any kind of God's plan (if we
even believed in a creator-being), and I really doubt that would lead to a
fulfilling life of ok-ness, much less happiness on a personal level for
oneself.
>You do not really choose.. in this existence although you have the illusion
>to choose.
The illusion is built by our choices. Each moment is a choosing and from
those choices reality manifests -- and depending on our choosing we either see
reality as it is, or we are lost in the illusion of what we see.
>We are part of a plan which is in execution,
We are the plan and we are the executioner, and we either choose wisely or we
choose foolishly.
>sometimes we are criminals,
And when we behave as criminals, eventually we suffer the conditions of a
criminal's life. Imprisonment, being on the run, perhaps a drug overdoes, or a
violent painful death by gunshot or stabbing, or a quiet death by lethal
injection (the lest violent mandated form of the death penalty by a state) --
such a life is very far from ok.
>sometimes we are peacemakers,
When we have chosen to become peacemakers. You don't accidently become a
peacemaker, we choose to become a peacemaker.
>no importance,
Everything is important ; )
> let it be.
Of course. But that is no excuse for just stumbling through life thinking
everything will be ok regardless of how I choose to live my life.
>If you try to convert a criminal to a peacemaker, you will fail...
I cannot force anyone to live a good life, still, pointing out the suffering
of a criminal's life, their own personal suffering and the suffering they
actively bring upon others just by following their criminal lifestyle is, in a
sense, one of the duties of a peacemaker. I would be failing as a peacemaker
if I didn't try.
>because his destiny was to be a criminal.
Sorry, I never give up on the buried potential of goodness, even within those
who have a long history of criminal behavior. But if a person has choosen a
criminal lifestyle, I doubt I would trust them with anything of value. If, for
example, I were to find myself in a situation where I had to defend myself (or
someone else) against a criminal -- I would respectfully treat them like a
criminal.
>If you try to convert a jazz singer to a engineer,
Apples and oranges. Why would I try to convert a jazz singer into an
engineer? Though ... it would be pretty cool to see what kind of insights a
jazz singing engineer would come up with. It would even be cool to see what
insights an engineering jazz singer would come up with. Criminal behavior, that
is a different kind of choosing. I would try to convert a criminal jazz singer
into a good and kind jazz singer. Still if that individual choses a criminal
lifestyle, eventually they'll be doing their singing from behind stone walls.
Not a very free life.
>you will fail because his destiny was to become a jazz singer.
A jazz singer is born by the experience of becoming a jazz singer. Even with
the talent, a lot of hard disciplined work is involved. You create your own
destiny, life doesn't just happen to you. You have choosen this life you are
living, by the way you have been living this life. Fixating on some destiny as
if it is written in the stars, is an affective way of fixing a self-fulfilling
prophecy. Sure, if you keep going you'll get there, but that will be because
of your own self-fulfilling fixation, a destiny of your own making, nothing to
do with the placement of the stars, or the designs of some super-other-being.
>Kind greetings from Belgium
tashi deleks from Florida *waves*
Pyrrho
news:XBKh9.14083$17.65...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net...
They won't. They are utterly beyond help. Hehehe..
Shiva
matthew
"gyong khal" <rokt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uegeouo03kmrd5kpl...@4ax.com...
>
> Stavros?
>
>
>
expelling your chi to this end will only create more hatred, and cause one
hell of a lot of bad karma for you, and a whirlwind cycle of samsara.
only the delusional unenlightened will go to this trouble.
Ch'an Fu
"Waiter! What's this nymph doing on my pizza?"
"That's no nymph, sir. It's just a horsefly
with false eyelashes."
jesson
hiya, chan fu...
sorry, i don't get the joke...: )
i mean, i didn't think it was that funny...er...
thought you might like to know i'm
still alive... what a pest, eh?...
am having a few technological problems...
i'd regret using an axe but it's a nice mentation
now and then.
mikey's got a new job - i don't think he'll
become hindu, though - but i might...if i dream
of more pocket octopussies a la gary larson...
so now i gotta go cos mikey needs his
sleeps... : )
don't know when i can.
lv
jan
Boris Fuller
like ...a tree said this to you?
>>>
>>>the xian message, indeed.
indeed, replace this amorphous "nature" with "jesus"
and you've got one mixed up christian there!
so "nature" isn't a group noun then?
...what exactly do you mean by "nature" anyhow?
> look at what you and Cha'n post
> It is completely divisive
> no wonder the world is in the state it is.
> wake up, all of you, before it is too late
>
sheesh brian!
do we get points
for picking the illogic bones
out of this weeks test ?
Boris
Boris Fuller
hi jan
i thought it was a pretty good joke - for chanfooey!
who the hell's gary larson?
Boris
Tang Huyen
gyong khal wrote:
> Tang Huyen:
> >
> >Evelyn Ruut wrote:
> >
> >> Tangie, you never did learn the difference when someone is joking or
> >> speaking seriously........LOL!
> >>
> >> Ev.
> >
> >I take it that when you reply to LongDang: 'Actually like shit, losers and
> >idiots just "happen".....', you're serious and telling it straight, but when you
> >prattle the pieties of the Tibetan religion, like rebirth and mind-training,
> >you're just joking and laughing between your teeth, as you use the Tibetan
> >religion merely as a tool for your own purpose, namely parading your ego on
> >these boards and getting it stroked.
>
> so thats really it tang
> parading all these years
> and not even a hand job
I know that I'm in no position to check, either way, but didn't you claim something
more substantial recently, dar luv?
Tang Huyen
news.tvd.be
First of all, many thanks to share your ideas about free will and destiny.
> Mmmm, never ..? I'd say that there are different degrees of freedom in
this
>world and in this life. An idiot isn't very free, a criminal is even less
>free, while a peacemaker lives a much freer life, and an enlightened being
is
>an embodiment of freedom.
But at least you will admit that you are prisonner by the Karma that you
have accumulated in past existences
(not the same illusory "I" of course).
But how can you call yourself a free person if you don't decide of the hour
of your dead, if you don't decide of being ill, if you don't decide for
breathing, if you don't decide about your parents, about the laws...
You still call yourself "a free person in this case" ?
>>If your destiny is to be an idiot, then you will be one and you cannot
change
>>this destiny.
>
> I'd have to say, I disagree. If "I think" I am an idiot then one could
say I
>am destined to become an idiot, but that is a self-fulfilling prophecy, not
>something written in the stars. All I'd need to do to change that destiny
is
>change my mind. Stop seeing myself "as an idiot" would be the first step
to
>stop acting like one and having the destiny of an idiot's life conditions.
I agree that if you put a label of idiot on yourself, you will start to
think that you are an idiot, but I mean "the real idiot person, born idiot".
Did he have a choice to practize Dharma ? I don't think so.
We , Buddhists, got some more opportunity to play with the mind, to label
and unlabel thoughts through meditation ok, but I mean the "real idiot". Has
he a choice ?
>>Each person is born with a destiny which is defined in advance by a
planner.
>
> Nope. There is no planner, nor any person forced into some predetermined
>role. Life is an improvisational dance, not a set of pre-planned steps.
There
>is no one else to blame. I can neither thank nor curse any planner other
than
>my own self.
I know that the idea of a planner is not accepted in Bouddhism and being
myself Bouddhist I still have problems with this.
I can imagine that to start the creation of the Cosmos, there must be an
initiator, an initial Thought, a process starter. How is it possible that
we are humans ? Just hasard ? Just du to freedom of other humans ?
It is difficult to accept this.
>>If your destiny is to be a criminal, be one......
>
> Create your own destiny, be who you are by choosing who you want to
become,
>then act accordingly. Choosing to be a criminal will bring you the life of
a
>criminal, not a happy place for anyone. A depressing lifestyle the
criminal
>life.
Again I don't think that the real criminal is depressive or has the feeling
to experience a depressing lifestyle.
This is your viewpoint from an honest being judging about a criminal.
The criminal person, thinks that to be honest will lead to depression. It is
not a joke.
The real criminal has pleasure with letting other humans suffer or he is not
a real criminal.
>>as long as you execute the program you were designed for, everything will
be
>ok >with you.
>
> There is no designer, nor any you that needs to run a program, still
there is
>a need to make decisions and to act accordingly. Thinking your destiny is
>fixed only fixes your destiny.
You can take a minmum of decisions, but again not about being ill or not,
not about our parents, our dead etc.
So there is not so many space for decisions.
>>If you refuse to accept your destiny, then you will experience depression
and
>a lot >of trouble.
>
> You will experience depression if you think depressing thoughts, speak
>depressing anti-affirmations, or actively live a depressing life. You will
>experience trouble if you plan, talk about, and act out behavior that harms
>(causes trouble for) either oneself or others. Soon the other will have
enough
>and respond in kind, or you will kill yourself through your own behavior.
What
>child is born with the destiny of becoming a drug addict? What child even
>wants to be a street prostitute or a prisoner on death row when they grow
up?
>Thinking it is your destiny to be on death row is one sure way of getting
>there. I really doubt that would be fulfilling any kind of God's plan (if
we
>even believed in a creator-being), and I really doubt that would lead to a
>fulfilling life of ok-ness, much less happiness on a personal level for
>oneself.
I understand your point of labels and creating thoughts and we can still do
a littlle work on ourselves with
meditation to find peace.
I really had sometimes the impression in my life where I say, oh I had luck
that I haven't had an accident in this case. I was almost dead. Oh what a
luck , I had almost an accident. Sometimes I think that when the time is
there we will have the accident and we will die.
Sometimes , I am not rationnal now, I have the impression to have a kind of
protection to have the time to achieve somethink and then when it is
achieved, then it is our time to leave.....
It is really an impression I experience often.
Perhaps it is karma, or what is your opinion ?
>
>>You do not really choose.. in this existence although you have the
illusion
>>to choose.
>
> The illusion is built by our choices. Each moment is a choosing and from
>those choices reality manifests -- and depending on our choosing we either
see
>reality as it is, or we are lost in the illusion of what we see.
Each moment is a choosing, ok but choosing with limits
- limits of age, condition, family, constraints and so on.
>>We are part of a plan which is in execution,
>
> We are the plan and we are the executioner, and we either choose wisely
or we
>choose foolishly.
So we are the Planner and the executioner. I would not go so far, I see
myself only as an executionner.
>criminal. > Pema Doru (And the monkey bows).
I do agree for accidental criminals not for real minded criminals who like
the suffering. Pema, if you or I kill somebody we will be unhappy but not a
killer. He is designed to kill.....
>
>Rest in a sky-like mind.
>Sit like a mountain floating on the earth.
Peace and love
Bruno
Pyrrho
news:am8cbd$3mt6g$1...@ID-104323.news.dfncis.de...
Hi Jan,
Actually, the nymph reference comes from a parallel thread "Tang's
Fruitless Path", which the good Bhante Punnadhammo started off. His post
was about Nirvana, but the thread moved on to more fruitful lines of
inquiry such as the "72 virgins" and "500 nymphs" :)
Ch'an Fu has been having a great deal of fun with his "Pizza Dharma". He
has decided to offer his insights for those of us with "but little
tastebuds in our mouth". He has decided to name his first discourse
"Dhammapizzapavattana Sutta".
Shiva
jesson
"Boris Fuller" <orour...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3D87C239...@hotmail.com...
hi boris
gary larson's that guy does the Far Side cartoons -
sure you know who i mean....?
chan fu's joke prolly was funnier than i realised...
last night i dreamed about an ole grandpappy
i never had,,,
swinging out on the front porch he explained to
me, that the actions of delusional
unenlightenment, or as he put it, wearing yer
underpants on yer head, brings
about the causes and conditions of
country and western music...
whereupon, four border collies stood on their
hinds, put on dark glasses and started into their
dance steps and backing vocals...
jan
>
>
> Boris
>
jesson
"Pyrrho" <Pyr...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:am9oc9$410lj$1...@ID-120943.news.dfncis.de...
lol! no speaking with your mouth full, huh?
hi, Shiva! : )
jan
> Shiva
>
>
>
Pyrrho
> > Hi Jan,
> >
> > Actually, the nymph reference comes from a parallel thread "Tang's
> > Fruitless Path", which the good Bhante Punnadhammo started off. His
post
> > was about Nirvana, but the thread moved on to more fruitful lines of
> > inquiry such as the "72 virgins" and "500 nymphs" :)
> >
> > Ch'an Fu has been having a great deal of fun with his "Pizza
Dharma". He
> > has decided to offer his insights for those of us with "but little
> > tastebuds in our mouth". He has decided to name his first discourse
> > "Dhammapizzapavattana Sutta".
>
> lol! no speaking with your mouth full, huh?
Indeed. And Ch'an Fu would probably add "no living with your mind full".
> hi, Shiva! : )
hi-ya, Jan. :)
Shiva
matthew
> its a long way to the next lifetime
>
>
I dont think I want to return, to my dismay, I think I was bhodi tree in a
monestary with a monk trimming my branches in my last limetime, the result
is me living in this delusional life of buddhas trying to become
enlightened. If I can just get past that I got it made.
Boris Fuller
nope
> chan fu's joke prolly was funnier than i realised...
well it wasn't THAT funny!
...in-jokes have a limited audience
> last night i dreamed about an ole grandpappy
> i never had,,,
> swinging out on the front porch he explained to
> me, that the actions of delusional
> unenlightenment, or as he put it, wearing yer
> underpants on yer head, brings
> about the causes and conditions of
> country and western music...
> whereupon, four border collies stood on their
> hinds, put on dark glasses and started into their
> dance steps and backing vocals...
>
> jan
what interesting dreams you have!
...and so educational too!
i think grandpa is prolly right
about the origins of c&w
...seems to be a preponderance of sheepdogs round here!
Boris
Tang Huyen
gyong khal wrote:
> Tang Huyen:
>
> >gyong khal:
>
> >> Tang Huyen:
>
> >> >Evelyn Ruut:
> u mean like gettin blowin the fuck off
It's what you say against what somebody says, weird situation, eh, dar dearie, and I
wouldn't know whether you are joking or speaking seriously, so let me just say that,
from your side, it must have been quite some ecstasy.
You just want us to get envious.........LOL!
Tang Huyen
J.
In article <cMMh9.2359$19.3...@amsnews02.chello.com>, "news.tvd.be"
<bruno....@tvd.be> writes:
>Hello Pema,
>
>First of all, many thanks to share your ideas about free will and destiny.
And thank you also.
>> Mmmm, never ..? I'd say that there are different degrees of freedom in
>>this world and in this life. An idiot isn't very free, a criminal is even
less
>>free, while a peacemaker lives a much freer life, and an enlightened being
>>is an embodiment of freedom.
>
>But at least you will admit that you are prisonner by the Karma that you
>have accumulated in past existences (not the same illusory "I" of course).
Yes, I am a prisoner of my accumulated Karma. Which would be the same as
saying I am a prisoner of the consequences of my own actions. Or I could say,
a prisoner of my own choices.
>But how can you call yourself a free person if you don't decide of the hour
>of your dead, if you don't decide of being ill,
Death happens to all things that are born. Illness happens to all things
that live. Still, when I die, and the illnesses I experience are due to my
past Karma. My own actions determine the conditions of my life.
>if you don't decide for breathing,
I can decide how I breath and that directly influences my state of mind and
the health of my body. Though I am glad that my breathing rate naturally
adjusts to the oxygen my body/mind needs depending on my level of activity, and
I am also kind of glad I don't have to worry about breathing when I am
sleeping.
>if you don't decide about your parents,
Actually my actions (past Karma) decide my parents, along with my parents
past Karma deciding me for them. We are drawn together by our Karma.
>about the laws...
Laws? If you mean natural laws, such as the Law of Karma or the Laws of
Physics, well it is only by those laws that this dream of a life is possible.
So, I can't control the weather, I still have the freedom to get out of the
rain. If you mean the laws of society those are determined through our
collective Karma. To paraphrase Patrul Rinpoche from 'The Words of My Perfect
Teacher,' We are gathered together by the force of our own actions.
>You still call yourself "a free person in this case" ?
As I said there are degrees of freedom, many of the fetters and restrictions
of my life are due to the conditions of having a life. Death, illness,
breathing -- these are some of the conditions of having a life. How I deal
with death, illness, and even breathing -- that I am free to decide. Who my
parents are is determined by my actions in past lives and also the force of
their own actions determines me to be born to them. We all choose each other,
by the force of our own actions.
>>>If your destiny is to be an idiot, then you will be one and you cannot
>>>change this destiny.
>>
>> I'd have to say, I disagree. If "I think" I am an idiot then one could
>>say I am destined to become an idiot, but that is a self-fulfilling prophecy,
>>not something written in the stars. All I'd need to do to change that
destiny
>>is change my mind. Stop seeing myself "as an idiot" would be the first step
>>to stop acting like one and having the destiny of an idiot's life conditions.
>
>I agree that if you put a label of idiot on yourself, you will start to
>think that you are an idiot, but I mean "the real idiot person, born idiot".
>Did he have a choice to practize Dharma ? I don't think so.
Such an individual (a born idiot) is so, due to his (or her) past Karma. By
the force of his own behavior (speech, attitude) he has been born an idiot. He
has been free to change his mind for lifetimes, he chooses not to due to his
actions, which is just another choice. You are limiting the experience to the
brief moment of one life, when we aren't even limited to one life within this
lifetime.
>We , Buddhists, got some more opportunity to play with the mind, to label
>and unlabel thoughts through meditation ok, but I mean the "real idiot". Has
>he a choice ?
He chooses to be an idiot, as we choose to be Buddhists.
>>>Each person is born with a destiny which is defined in advance by a
>>>planner.
>>
>> Nope. There is no planner, nor any person forced into some predetermined
>>role. Life is an improvisational dance, not a set of pre-planned steps.
There
>>is no one else to blame. I can neither thank nor curse any planner other
than
>>my own self.
>
>I know that the idea of a planner is not accepted in Bouddhism and being
>myself Bouddhist I still have problems with this. I can imagine that to start
>the creation of the Cosmos, there must be an initiator, an initial Thought,
>a process starter.
Looking for a first cause is an endless exercise of chasing your own tail.
Even when physicists tried to run the numbers backwards to try and therotically
see the Big Bang the equations breakdown.
>How is it possible that we are humans?
Karma
>Just hasard ?
"hasard"? Perhaps a spelling error, or is this a french word? Regardless, I
don't know this what it means.
>Just du to freedom of other humans ?
Karma -- our own personal Karma and the collective Karma of all sentient
beings.
>It is difficult to accept this.
Makes much more sense to me then the theistic answer. Though I do recognize
the comfort a god creator can give (kind of puts everything in order for you),
I just see no evidence of a separate god creator that is a maker of reality.
>>>If your destiny is to be a criminal, be one......
>>
>> Create your own destiny, be who you are by choosing who you want to
>>become, then act accordingly. Choosing to be a criminal will bring you the
>>life of a criminal, not a happy place for anyone. A depressing lifestyle the
>>criminal life.
>
>Again I don't think that the real criminal is depressive or has the feeling
>to experience a depressing lifestyle.
>This is your viewpoint from an honest being judging about a criminal.
>The criminal person, thinks that to be honest will lead to depression. It is
>not a joke.
>The real criminal has pleasure with letting other humans suffer or he is not
>a real criminal.
I'd have to say I disagree. A psychopath sociopath is not someone having a
good time. The temporary pleasure they receive from the violence they cause
others is nothing but suffering. I remember watching a documentary about
serial rapists where they interviewed several rapists. One of them really made
an impression. He was talking about how he knew (and still believed) that his
victim wanted to have sex with him. The way she dressed and acted around him.
She was always flirting with him and always wanted to hug him and hold his
hand. He was talking about a 7 year old girl, his niece. He was not a happy
person and he wasn't living a happy life.
>>>as long as you execute the program you were designed for, everything will
>>>be ok with you.
>>
>> There is no designer, nor any you that needs to run a program, still there
is a >>need to make decisions and to act accordingly. Thinking your destiny is
fixed >>only fixes your destiny.
>
>You can take a minmum of decisions, but again not about being ill or not,
>not about our parents, our dead etc.
Refer to my comments above.
>So there is not so many space for decisions.
I choose how I deal with my parents, illness, and death -- and there is a lot
of room for decisions in how I do that.
>>>If you refuse to accept your destiny, then you will experience depression
>>>and a lot of trouble.
>>
>> You will experience depression if you think depressing thoughts, speak
>>depressing anti-affirmations, or actively live a depressing life. You will
>>experience trouble if you plan, talk about, and act out behavior that harms
>>(causes trouble for) either oneself or others. Soon the other will have
enough
>>and respond in kind, or you will kill yourself through your own behavior.
>>What child is born with the destiny of becoming a drug addict? What child
>>even wants to be a street prostitute or a prisoner on death row when they
grow
>>up? Thinking it is your destiny to be on death row is one sure way of
getting
>>there. I really doubt that would be fulfilling any kind of God's plan (if we
>>even believed in a creator-being), and I really doubt that would lead to a
>>fulfilling life of ok-ness, much less happiness on a personal level for
oneself.
>
>I understand your point of labels and creating thoughts and we can still do
>a littlle work on ourselves with meditation to find peace.
An't that the truth.
>I really had sometimes the impression in my life where I say, oh I had luck
>that I haven't had an accident in this case. I was almost dead. Oh what a
>luck , I had almost an accident. Sometimes I think that when the time is
>there we will have the accident and we will die.
Not luck, Karma. There are no accidents, just bad timing ; )
>Sometimes , I am not rationnal now, I have the impression to have a kind of
>protection to have the time to achieve somethink and then when it is
>achieved, then it is our time to leave.....
>It is really an impression I experience often.
>Perhaps it is karma, or what is your opinion ?
Meditation experiences come in many flavors, enjoy them and let go. Just
another experience in a sea of infinite experiences.
>>>You do not really choose.. in this existence although you have the
>>>illusion to choose.
>>
>> The illusion is built by our choices. Each moment is a choosing and from
>>those choices reality manifests -- and depending on our choosing we either
>>see reality as it is, or we are lost in the illusion of what we see.
>
>Each moment is a choosing, ok but choosing with limits
>
>- limits of age, condition, family, constraints and so on.
All things that have been determined by our own actions.
>>>We are part of a plan which is in execution,
>>
>> We are the plan and we are the executioner, and we either choose wisely
>>or we choose foolishly.
>
>So we are the Planner and the executioner. I would not go so far, I see
>myself only as an executionner.
The life you are living right now is due to the force of your own actions.
The situations you find yourself involved in are all due to the force of your
own actions. The people in your life are all there with you (and you with
them) due to the force of your (and their) actions.
>I do agree for accidental criminals not for real minded criminals who like
>the suffering. Pema, if you or I kill somebody we will be unhappy but not a
>killer. He is designed to kill.....
The happiness a killer feels in his moment of killing leads him to a life of
more and more sorrow, sadness, and suffering each time he (or she) kills. Due
to the force of his past actions he has to deal with the joy he get's out of
killing. He still must choose to give into the urge to kill. And my
understanding of the pathological developpment that leads to a serial killer,
begins with giving into small voilent urges, which releases repressed energies
and emotions, an experience that can be momentarily enjoyable (there is an
endorphin release along with the adrenaline), but this is followed by negative
feelings that begin to build up the tension again. They swing back and forth,
never finding peace. They either suffer in a state of tension or suffer in a
state of violence. And it builds up, just like a drug addicts. They need a
higher high to get high, but that is not happiness, it is just a release of
tension. No other designed him to kill. He designed himself by the force of
his past actions. The life of a serial killer, or a serial rapist is not a
happy one.
Pema Doru (And the monkey bows).
Rest in a sky-like mind.
Sit like a mountain floating on the earth.
J.
In article <IEHh9.30085$Gp1.7...@weber.videotron.net>, "Gileht.com"
Tang Huyen
matthew wrote:
> "gyong khal"
>
> "matthew":
>
> > >"gyong khal"
>
> > >> "LongDang":
>
> > >> >matthew:
>
> > >> >>"Evelyn Ruut"
>
> > >> >>> > > >Do I have to? I didn't think that was my job.....
> > >> >>> > > >Actually like shit, losers and idiots just "happen".....
> > >> >>> > >
> > >> >>shit is created by idots that are losers who can't win against
> > >> >>thier own selves
> > >> >>
> > >> >Mathpew....when you say......"shit is created by idots that are
> > >> >losers who can't win against thier own selves".....are you saying
> > >> >you are an idiot loser....or......that you have never taken a
> > >> >good shit?
> > >> >
> > >> time to drag out the official Shittyanna Tantra instructions
> > >>
> > >> Stavros?
> > >>
> > >expelling your chi to this end will only create more hatred, and cause
> > >one hell of a lot of bad karma for you, and a whirlwind cycle of samsara.
> > >
> > >only the delusional unenlightened will go to this trouble.
> > >
> > fine hold it then
> > its a long way to the next lifetime
> >
> I dont think I want to return, to my dismay, I think I was bhodi tree in a
> monestary with a monk trimming my branches in my last limetime, the result
> is me living in this delusional life of buddhas trying to become
> enlightened. If I can just get past that I got it made.
Oooooooooohhhhhhh! Look at that:
"this delusional life of buddhas trying to become enlightened"!
So you're a walking tautology, eh? Trying to make ends meet or what?
It is true that if you can just get past that, you got it made, luv.
Tang Huyen
o
The term Nature embraces everything which is not a figment of man's
imagination
>
>
>
> > look at what you and Cha'n post
> > It is completely divisive
> > no wonder the world is in the state it is.
> > wake up, all of you, before it is too late
> >
>
> sheesh brian!
> do we get points
> for picking the illogic bones
> out of this weeks test ?
>
>
> Boris
>
no points required
just an alarm going off
best to switch me off
or at least hit the snooze button
:)
o
>
>
> o wrote:
>
> > To call anything "Buddhism" is to create division where none exists
>
> pizza
as long as it's vegetarian ;)
matthew
eye.
sad that buddha taught people to meditate on a bodhi tree, Ive become the
living manifestation of it. kharma has some old debts to collect.
cupcake
matthew (of the pure and enlightened elite) wrote:
>"Tang Huyen" <tang_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>[22]news:3D89159C...@yahoo.com...
ha ha ha! -- we're busy talking Buddha-Dhamma, and
yer fucked up the butt vajrayani ass is busy issuing threats!
Tang Huyen
matthew wrote:
> "Tang Huyen"
> no im still trying to get the illusion of your delusions out of my minds
> eye.
>
> sad that buddha taught people to meditate on a bodhi tree, Ive become the
> living manifestation of it. kharma has some old debts to collect.
So you're playing the Jesus game, bearing all the delusions of others in your
mind in their stead, eh?
On top of that, you turn that baggage of all the delusions of others in your
mind into an illusion, and yet carry it still.
Double Jesus, my friend.
Tang Huyen
Gileht.com
"J." <pema...@aol.comnojunk> a écrit dans le message de news:
And the monkey Gileht bowing too.
tadperry
> Tadpole.. send me all your dvds, cars and plastic credit cards...
> and you will be free!
You've made a mistake assuming that I have ANY of these because I don't.
> Then you won't have to come back to this hell hole...Tadpole...
> and we might have heaven here on earth!
It will come quicker without the likes of you unless you are ready to
listen.
tvp
iirc
>
> I've heard this before in other religions too.
> Question is, why human? Why can't a dog achieve enlightenment? And why can't it
> be achieved in any of the many other worlds?
Dogma, afaik.
Ramana Maharshi once certified a cow as enlightened/liberated.
Gileht.com
"iirc" <piet...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
cbec6b32.02091...@posting.google.com...
Does that prove that Ramana Maharshi was not enlightened or what ? lol
Gileht
LongDang
tadperry wrote in message ...
>"LongDang" <L...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3d84f...@news.iglou.com...
>> Tadpole.. send me all your dvds, cars and plastic credit
cards...
>> and you will be free!
>
>You've made a mistake assuming that I have ANY of these because
I don't.
That's hard to believe........tadpole!
But now that I read your post again..........you are probably
right!
How about.........sending me your mommy and daddy's credit cards
then............tadpole!
>
>> Then you won't have to come back to this hell
hole...Tadpole...
>> and we might have heaven here on earth!
>
>It will come quicker without the likes of you unless you are
ready to
>listen.
I'm listening.........tadpole!
Were you saying something?
>
>tvp
>
>
>
matthew
miracle the other day and someone actually thinks Im god, and I have allowed
the generalized christian persecution in my area of operation to myself and
trying not to spread it around, I am trying to keep it localized.
as far as being buddha monk goes, I have become a catch all for everyones
bad karma.
instead of unleashing the karma effect I have decided to learn from the
events, although unleashing the karma effect does bail me out of some
tricky shitty situations where someone has tried to use me in this manner
and I get a bad rap for it.
believe me, it is BETTER to believe in karma, but it isnt easier to live
that way after unleashing it.
so instead of trying to rid myself of the illusions of delusions, I am
trying to carry as much of it as I can, later I can rid myself of each part
of the bad karma, by praying or meditating on it or resolving the conflicts
of conciousness myself by bearing the burdens until they dissipate into
nothing or they are forgotten.
matthew
"cupcake" <t...@r.slrup> wrote in message
news:w4bi9.230$q9....@news.more.net...
do the right thing.
matthew
> On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 15:45:34 -0500, "matthew" <dalt...@nemr.net>
> when ure tryin to get somewhere
> the second you stop you are
> sounds unsatisfying dont it
>
>
>
the hardest parrt of sawing a log is getting caught on a knothole.
cupcake
>
> Re: Jumping ship (was Re: Why are there so few Buddhas?)
>
> From: "matthew" <dalt...@nemr.net>
> Reply to: [1]"matthew"
> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:44:37 -0500
> Organization: netINS, Inc.
> Newsgroups:
> [2]alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan,
> [3]alt.religion.buddhism,
> [4]talk.religion.buddhism,
> [5]alt.zen,
> [6]alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
> Followup to: [7]newsgroups
> References:
> [8]<ambcdf$591$1...@ins22.netins.net>
> [9]<w4bi9.230$q9....@news.more.net>
>
>"cupcake" <t...@r.slrup> wrote in message
>>
>>
>> matthew (of the pure and enlightened elite) wrote:
>>
>> >"Tang Huyen" <tang_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
i got something that yu can du right *here*, bunkie!
(...do me sweetly, baby :)
o
Except with all those divisions and groups in it, he wouldn't be speaking
from experience, would he?
Boris Fuller
you mean like the little red metro on my drive?
...only men?
...so anything a woman imagines is nature too?
still, it sounds like a group noun to me.
are you going to take back your assertion about
"groups" above - or what?
>
>
>>
>>
>>>look at what you and Cha'n post
>>>It is completely divisive
>>>no wonder the world is in the state it is.
>>>wake up, all of you, before it is too late
>>>
>>
>>sheesh brian!
>>do we get points
>>for picking the illogic bones
>>out of this weeks test ?
>>
>>
>>Boris
>>
>
>
> no points required
> just an alarm going off
> best to switch me off
> or at least hit the snooze button
>
> :)
>
>
ok
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Boris
Tang Huyen
o wrote:
Without divisions and groups, *nobody* could speak at all, from experience or
not.
To speak, one has to activate (or reactivate) one's a priori machinery of
thought and language, otherwise one would be limited to baying like a horse or
chirping like a bird -- which often is more meaningful and surely more
tasteful than the babble of some grown-up babies on these boards.
Tang Huyen
Tang Huyen
gyong khal wrote:
> it was totaly cellular
> the babe can go and go
>
> >You just want us to get envious.........LOL!
>
> i doubt thats possiible
So, the babe can go and go, on the cellular, eh? Babe oh babe!
At least on your side it was cellular, but did she chew your ears off, anyway?
Tang Huyen
George W. Cherry
Uh, horses NEIGH.
Horse neigh,
Cats meow,
Dogs bark,
Pigs oink,
But an enlightened
One eating pizza
Is contentedly quiet.
George
"In the nightmare of the dark
All the dogs of usenet bark."
Pyrrho
How else could he or anyone else speak? Doesn't speech by its very
nature involve divisions and groups? However that is not to say that one
needs Aristotle's categories while baking pizza.
Shiva
o
I don't think it's necessary to break things down into groups to talk about
stuff.
One could say that a word, like the word "tree", is a group
and in a sense it is, though it is a purely pedantic way of looking at it
compared to the use of a word like "Buddhist"
or "member of talk.religion.buddhism".
Those sort of groups are imaginary,
whereas the "tree" group, as used to talk about a particular tree
is related to what exists in nature
so that "tree" exists, but "Buddhist" is just an idea,
and all we finfd in talk.religion.buddhism is a lot of messages
by individuals, not some imaginary group.
We have to resort to ideas just to talk about this sort of stuff
but it is useful to discard all but the most basic ideas
from our conversations
especially conversatioins between spiritually advanced people.
So when we resort to words like "Buddhist", "Xian", etc.
This points to a head full of ideas.
In that, someone who was carefully watching their over indulgence in ideas
wouldnt let those sort of words drop out in ordinary conversation.
Do you see my drift?
o
I think the word "nature" is a useful kind of word.
all words are groups in a pedantic sort of way
and the little red metro in your drive does not exist in nature
Steel does not exist in nature.
so it is an idea made concrete.
But whether or not a car is nature or idea doesn't really matter a lot
except in a philosophical sense.
Groups like "American", "Christian", "Muslim", "Patriot", "Anarchist",
"Terrorist"
are far more dangerous ideas
and have little or no substantial reality.
Those are the sort of terms i object to
As being part and parcel of "a head full of ideas".
Pyrrho
> Pyrrho <Pyr...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
> news:amf005$5a4tu$1...@ID-120943.news.dfncis.de...
> > "o" <nos...@soimnotletingon.com> wrote in message
> > > Except with all those divisions and groups in it, he wouldn't be
> > speaking from experience, would he?
> >
> > How else could he or anyone else speak? Doesn't speech by its very
> > nature involve divisions and groups? However that is not to say that
one
> > needs Aristotle's categories while baking pizza.
> >
> > Shiva
>
> I don't think it's necessary to break things down into groups to talk
about
> stuff.
> One could say that a word, like the word "tree", is a group
> and in a sense it is, though it is a purely pedantic way of looking at
it
> compared to the use of a word like "Buddhist"
> or "member of talk.religion.buddhism".
> Those sort of groups are imaginary,
> whereas the "tree" group, as used to talk about a particular tree
> is related to what exists in nature
> so that "tree" exists, but "Buddhist" is just an idea,
> and all we finfd in talk.religion.buddhism is a lot of messages
> by individuals, not some imaginary group.
You have already made a distinction between "imaginary" and "what exists
in nature". Can you speak or write without making any distinction of
this kind?
> We have to resort to ideas just to talk about this sort of stuff
> but it is useful to discard all but the most basic ideas
> from our conversations
> especially conversatioins between spiritually advanced people.
Another distinction. When you say "spiritually advanced people", it
implies others who are less advanced.
> So when we resort to words like "Buddhist", "Xian", etc.
> This points to a head full of ideas.
> In that, someone who was carefully watching their over indulgence in
ideas
> wouldnt let those sort of words drop out in ordinary conversation.
>
> Do you see my drift?
No. You still have not shown an instance of speech without having
recourse to distinctions and categories.
Shiva