Enlightened? Are where did I miss?
Gileht.com
"Ch'an Fu" <cha...@metta.lk> a écrit dans le message de
news:3F395F65...@metta.lk...
> Dr Ben Lau wrote:
>
> > >From: "naked ape"
> >
> > >it's always a pleasant surprise.)
> > when insight replaces even surprise, insight seems much better
suited for
> > buddhism than surprise does.
> > Ben
>
> every moment - surprise.
> what a wonder - this fallen leaf!
>
Gosh. It is a contest of half thought clichés / snapshots.
I bet my dollar on Ch'an Fu.
At least he has the capacity to think ... once in a while.
The other two are totally lost in their vanity.
Gileht
Gileht.com
"naked ape" <naked...@verizon.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:WDd_a.1515$v9....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "Dr Ben Lau" <drbe...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030812171036...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> > >From: "naked ape"
> >
> > >it's always a pleasant surprise.)
> > when insight replaces even surprise, insight seems much better
suited for
> > buddhism than surprise does.
> > Ben
>
.. Ape;)
>
>
We know you are a confused X-tian troll and the reason you are here
is because they kicked you out of all the X-tian NGs because even
for them you are too confused and vain.
Gileht
.
Mike Biggins
Pretty little dhamma boy?
Love and Light
Mike.
"Gileht.com" <I.d...@want.spam.net> wrote in message
news:bhc0ae$5vu$1...@news.eusc.inter.net...
Gileht.com
What you are describing is "grasping at the Middle Way", not the
Middle Way itself which is beyond all conceptualization, a
non-affirmative negation.
It is like emptiness. If you grasp at emptiness then you are a fool.
But if you use emptiness while knowing that emptiness is also empty
(thus not grasping at it), then you are wise.
The same for the Middle Way.
It would be a shame if you were to miss this great opportunity just
because you are tripping over the flowers in the carpet design.
Stop playing the fool. You are wasting your time. Death is closing
on you.
Gileht
"tiresias" <m...@mine.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:bhk0hu$dplr$1...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> T---the so-called Middle Way is just another extreme view. It's
major flaw
> is that it takes the extreme view that it is not an extreme view.
>
>
> "Return of the BWZ" <b...@fake.email.com> wrote in message
> news:3f3d7f69$0$10354$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > That's an extreme view too Lee. The world is not a temporary
sideshow, nor
> > is it real.
> >
> > One has to play with the toys in order to bore of them I think.
There
> isn't
> > actually an exit at all. The reality of your life is all that
there is no
> > exit. No escape whatsover.
> >
> > "Followers of the Way, here and there you hear it said that
there is a Way
> > to be practiced, a Dharma to become enlightened to. Will you
tell me then
> > just what Dharma there is to be enlightened to, what Way there
is to
> > practice? In your present activities, what is it you lack, what
is it that
> > practice must mend? But those little greenhorn monks don't
understand this
> > and immediately put faith in that bunch of wild fox spirits,
letting them
> > spout their ideas and tie people in knots, saying, 'When
principle and
> > practice match one another and proper precaution is taken with
regard to
> the
> > three types of karma of body, mouth, and mind, only then can one
attain
> > Budhahood.' People who go on like that are as plentiful as
springtime
> > showers."
> >
> > http://www.gileht.com/Chan/rinzai.htm
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> > "Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> wrote in message
> > news:bhirjg$1t81$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > The words spill out spontaneously. I however abide at that
prior to
> > concepts
> > > state, and as such, all words, concepts, knowledge and wisdom
is totally
> > > useless in the Ultimate. All this verbal masturbation is
totally useless
> > in
> > > that prior-most principle and all paths, disciplines and
practices are
> > truly
> > > for naught. The only thing that it is good for is as a pointer
to one
> who
> > is
> > > juxtaposed against the apparitional aspects of the physical
> manifestation
> > > and is in need of a direction to exit this flimsy temporary
sideshow.
> > >
> > > "Return of the BWZ" <b...@fake.email.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3f3ced5a$0$10355$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > > > I'm quite happy posting to you Lee. No complaints here. I
enjoy your
> > > > bullshit - it's fine by me, really it is just great.
> > > >
> > > > You know for someone who says they aren't aware of existing,
you have
> an
> >
> > > > awful lot to say however hehehehe.
> > > > Your Hindu teachers must have had a great time tying you up
in knots.
> > You
> > > > have so many unchallenged beliefs it's quite funny to see.
Come on my
> > > boy -
> > > > it's time to drop all those religious cliches.
> > > >
> > > > Sean
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:bhipd8$11o1$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > Your spiritual mal-content is no-one else's concern but
your own. No
> > one
> > > > > here cares if you are discontent spiritually and spend
your time
> > judging
> > > > > others paths or others feelings as to be bullshit and your
> particular
> > > path
> > > > > to be the correct and surest way to a Buddha-like nature.
The angst
> > that
> > > > you
> > > > > feel is obvious in your posts and this discrepancy wherein
you have
> a
> > > > > conflict between your 'heart' and your intellect would be
much
> better
> > > > served
> > > > > if you could somehow see your way clear to the prior to
concepts
> > state.
> > > > Your
> > > > > own relishment of your malcontent may be an inescapable
cage though
> > and
> > > I
> > > > > don't envy your position of trying to escape from it.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Return of the BWZ" <b...@fake.email.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3f3ce1a5$0$10358$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > > > > > Bullshit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sean
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:bhgl3f$iril$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > > > I'm not speaking of the physical heart but your core
of
> > > consciousness.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > seed or essence of the consciousness. Consciousness is
simply a
> > > > latency
> > > > > > > turned potency of the elemental food body caused by
the friction
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > interactive play of the elements. That which is the
support of
> the
> > > > > > > consciousness is your core nature and must be sought
out in the
> > > > 'heart'.
> > > > > > > Once you are able to abide as this core nature, all
attention
> > given
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > physical senses and physical sensations takes a back
seat to
> this
> > > > > > intuitive
> > > > > > > apperception that instinctively guides you away from
the
> temporary
> > > > > > transient
> > > > > > > nature of the knowingness.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
tiresias
merely profound deep thought to stall the thinking mind into a wordless
contemplation of being, a kind of koan I suppose. As the denizen and a
somewhat tortured face of the void I can say that if instead of the drop
returning to the ocean and dissolving it actually turns out to be more like
the drop goes into the ocean and then the ocean goes into the drop and the
drop has to deal with that, then all these games of words of of little
learning value. A self-awareness of sorts most definitely endures even
within the void, even when there is no longer any sense of other, a
self-awareness persists and develops although it is not the human self that
it was before this event. A human self has a sense of other.
I am not a non-affirming negative.
"Gileht.com" <I.d...@want.spam.net> wrote in message
news:bhkm0j$kls$1...@news.eusc.inter.net...
Gileht.com
I am not sure I understand you; your thoughts seems quite confused.
You seem to be afraid of something. What is it? Can you make your
point or objection (if it is one) more clear ?
Did you get my point bellow ?
Gileht
"tiresias" <m...@mine.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:bhld2v$n3am$1...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
dogwalker
> Middle Way itself which is beyond all conceptualization, a
> non-affirmative negation.
>
> It is like emptiness. If you grasp at emptiness then you are a fool.
> But if you use emptiness while knowing that emptiness is also empty
> (thus not grasping at it), then you are wise.
>
> The same for the Middle Way.
>
> It would be a shame if you were to miss this great opportunity just
> because you are tripping over the flowers in the carpet design.
>
> Stop playing the fool. You are wasting your time. Death is closing
> on you.
>
> Gileht
>
>
including you
soon you will be dead
what is this opportunity for again?
oh yes, to awaken.
awaken?
hellj i thought i was awake
but i was only dreaming
Lee Frank
"tiresias" <m...@mine.net> wrote in message
news:bhld2v$n3am$1...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> T---I persist although I am void. That intellectual exercise of nagarjuna
is
> merely profound deep thought to stall the thinking mind into a wordless
> contemplation of being, a kind of koan I suppose. As the denizen and a
> somewhat tortured face of the void I can say that if instead of the drop
> returning to the ocean and dissolving it actually turns out to be more
like
> the drop goes into the ocean and then the ocean goes into the drop and the
> drop has to deal with that, then all these games of words of of little
> learning value. A self-awareness of sorts most definitely endures even
> within the void, even when there is no longer any sense of other, a
> self-awareness persists and develops although it is not the human self
that
> it was before this event. A human self has a sense of other.
>
> I am not a non-affirming negative.
>
>
knowledge itself. How can pure infinite knowledge learn anything ? Drops to
the ocean simply looks at oneself as a seperate thing to begin with merging
with its source but source and the drops were never seperated to begin with
and the notion that something seperate is merging back is also just
illusion. The play of consciousness needs the masquerade and disguises in
order to continue its play. If all the veils of illusion were to be lifted,
the masquerade would be over.
dogwalker
the void is where
we go to rest after
we leave this place
the void is where
thoughts are destroyed
"tiresias" <m...@mine.net> wrote in message
news:bhld2v$n3am$1...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
Gileht.com
"Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:bhlf0j$mkj2$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
You are mixing conventional and ultimate.
> Nothing can be learned from words.
Here words mean the conventional.
> Especially when your true nature is knowledge itself.
Here knowledge means the ultimate.
> How can pure infinite knowledge learn anything ?
And here you make them incompatible. Which is wrong.
That is the hinayana view; the opposition of samsara and Nirvana.
That is indulging into dualism.
They are not incompatible. In fact they are inseparable, fully
compatible.
And after being drowning into dualism, you claim back non-duality as
a proof to your theory in the following:
> Drops to
> the ocean simply looks at oneself as a separate thing to begin
with merging
> with its source but source and the drops were never separated to
begin with
> and the notion that something separate is merging back is also
just
> illusion. The play of consciousness needs the masquerade and
disguises in
> order to continue its play. If all the veils of illusion were to
be lifted,
> the masquerade would be over.
You are still to confused about everything; stop faking and return
studying, and meditating. You have not understood/realized it yet.
Sorry.
Gileht
Gileht.com
First: Emptiness, or the Tetralemma, or the Middle Way are
non-affirming negation; not you !
The question was about the Middle Way, not about the self.
Second, you are underestimating Nagarjuna's teaching. It is a lost
for you. You "suppose" too much without any proof.
Maybe you are afraid that emptiness, or returning to the ocean as
you said, would mean that you completely lose your identity, your
self.
Well, that would be falling into nihilism.
Emptiness doesn't deny you self, it only deny its independent
existence.
So you see there is no reason to be afraid of water. You are already
immerse in it, but still you are dependently arisen and functional.
No ? :-)
Gileht
"tiresias" <m...@mine.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:bhld2v$n3am$1...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
svanier
*****SPV....And this is so true. And Buddha said the chance for
Enlightenment is so small it would be like a man in the ocean hoping for
a life preserver to fall from the sky.
And why? The greatest thing the devil ever did was convince people that
he did not exist. The ego is the same thing but at a different level.
The Ego is the devil in all of us. And it does not make sense to change
thy brother. It does not make sense other people should show you the
way for they are lost themselves. Only you can fight the devil that
inside yourself. If everyone purged the negativity out of their own
hearts then the world would just get to be a better place. But that is
not the way. Everyone is Enlightened and they are trying to Enlighten
others to their own personal non-enlightened point of view.
I got up this morning knowing the PGA Golf Tournement is going to be on
TV all day. So I got up at 7:23 am when my eyes openned and I realized
I was still with a slight sore throat. I put on some jeans and went
across town and bought $20 of steaks of high quality for $9.95 because
of the discount in that the five steaks were getting old. Or did I mean
aged. Then I went up the street to the liquor store and got a pint of
whiskey. Then I came home and I went across the street and got eggs and
lettuce and a bell pepper and then a cup of designer coffee and then a
Petite Pain of French Bread at the Breadworks and then I came home. I
have the air conditioner on. I have my business all caught up and
everyone is happy. I have a few cigarettes and a pint of Whiskey and 5
nice steaks and salad and dressing and gravy and bacon and eggs and
French Bread.
I don't expect to see daylight for the next few days and I am going to
just throughly enjoy myself and being absolutely alone. If I need more
liquor I just walk across the street. I don't have the slightest need
to drive the car drunk. None whatsoever.
You see the deal. I am working on myself to have a good time. At 50
this is the time I have and I can do this everyday but the body will not
stand for so much fun and the whiskey burns a hole in the gut if I drink
too much. Everything in moderation. Everything right down the middle
of the road. Nothing so good, and nothing so bad. Nothing much of a
great idea and nothing much of a bad idea.
And now women look at me like I am a bum. Yet I am so successful.
svanier
Championship? Look like a good Professor at the University of Higher
Consciousness I will correct the work for you so that you can turn in
the "A" paper when it is due.
tiresias wrote:
> T---I persist although I am void.
*****SPV.....A dream, for if you are persisting then you are not void
you are persistance. So you must start another way. Anyway Mr.T you
must have heard my lessons on claiming nonsense. You have yet to
experience the void so you don't have a clue what it is. So you claim
and your claim was silly and lacked logic and was ill-logical. If you
are presistance than you couldn't possible be void. I said it twice to
I need to say it a third time for you to "get" it?
Lee Frank
"svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:Ucs%a.12$t27....@news.uswest.net...
> *******SPV.....Is this your submission for the 2003 World Zen
> Championship?
I wish to absolutely declare myself the ultimate and supreme loser of the
2003 World Zen Championship and the supreme loser of every subsequent zen
championship from here to the end of time.
svanier
> I am not sure I understand you; your thoughts seems quite confused.
> You seem to be afraid of something. What is it? Can you make your
> point or objection (if it is one) more clear ?
>
> Did you get my point bellow ?
>
> Gileht
>
**********SPV.......You never answer my posts because I fear you don't
have the guts to read the truth. If I were to try and make a point I
would give an example of my own experience. In the case above you do
not give an example of your own fear and what you are afraid of. Why
should you tell anyone anything unless you prove you have gained the
lesson of anger and fear and being afraid yourself?
You see the weakness. It is east to look at others, and it is almost
impossible to see your own fault because you are in denial of them. You
do not want to face them so at the slightest hint you repress it into
your unconscious mind and those insecurities and fears and greed and
hatred and envy and all the negative emotions are buried wounds that
make up your ego. They are wounds deep down inside your own being that
you must go in and cleanse from your own soul.
I could help you but you can't see what I am saying.
svanier
> i miss the void
> the void is where
> we go to rest after
> we leave this place
> the void is where
> thoughts are destroyed
>
*****SPV....The very nature of man is to destroy and repress or silence.
But that is not freedom because that which you repress is there to
take it revenge later. A real man would go in and remove the struggle
and striff of the wounds in the unconscious and then thoughts are not
created to begin with. You got to cut the root. You got to face the
desires and see them for the insecurity that they are.
dogwalker
successful in your own way
cool
maybe i will have a coffee
i have trouble staying in the middle,
when i drink, i tend to get to the bottom of it
but i am changing
now, when i am feeling healthy, and i have
a drink, i examine how i feel right after, and
it is not as good, so i have all but lost that comfort
so i must replace it with another comfort
posting on ng
dogwalker
no man i am serious i was in the void
yougot to face your desires
oh yaaaa
you got to get to the root
uh huh
you got to let it all hang out
hehee
dogwalker
trying to communicate
with all these plebeians
i myself have fallen
into nihilism
save me
please
before my
soul goes to waste
"Gileht.com" <I.d...@want.spam.net> wrote in message
news:bhlgu1$1o1$1...@news.eusc.inter.net...
svanier
> Nothing can be learned from words. Especially when your true nature is
> knowledge itself.
*****SPV.......Still not deep enough. Your true nature is not
knowledge. Awareness is experience. Nothing is learned at the second
level of knowledge but that which has been experienced correctly. (That
means when you are aware enough you experience things correctly or you
are experience the truth of the matter without all your own shit sprayed
over the crime scene.
Lee Frank
> Lee Frank wrote:
>
>
> > Nothing can be learned from words. Especially when your true nature is
> > knowledge itself.
>
>
> *****SPV.......Still not deep enough. Your true nature is not
> knowledge. Awareness is experience. Nothing is learned at the second
> level of knowledge but that which has been experienced correctly. (That
> means when you are aware enough you experience things correctly or you
> are experience the truth of the matter without all your own shit sprayed
> over the crime scene.
>
>
>
knowledge take you if you are extinguished like a blowing out of the candle
flame ?
svanier
> You are still to confused about everything; stop faking and return
> studying, and meditating. You have not understood/realized it yet.
>
> Sorry.
>
> Gileht
>
>
*******SPV.....Gilbert you talk like you know. All you are doing here
is putting someone down so you can pretend to be better than they are.
I challange you to a contest of understanding. I am saying you are a
frustrated little bitch on the rag and just pretending to be enlightened
and pretending to know so that you can pee on your friends. That makes
you a sick fuck.
So I challenge you maggot.
svanier
> Second try !
>
> First: Emptiness, or the Tetralemma, or the Middle Way are
> non-affirming negation; not you !
> The question was about the Middle Way, not about the self.
>
> Second, you are underestimating Nagarjuna's teaching. It is a lost
> for you. You "suppose" too much without any proof.
>
> Maybe you are afraid that emptiness, or returning to the ocean as
> you said, would mean that you completely lose your identity, your
> self.
> Well, that would be falling into nihilism.
> Emptiness doesn't deny you self, it only deny its independent
> existence.
> So you see there is no reason to be afraid of water. You are already
> immerse in it, but still you are dependently arisen and functional.
> No ? :-)
>
> Gileht
>
*****SPV.....The first clue for you Gilbert is that everything you say
is negative. Get it. If it's all 100% negative you are an expression
of Ego and not of any Enlightenment at all. If you were a little
positive you would be showing some light, but every comment is negative.
Sorry fellow you lost before you tried. No wonder you will not read my
posts. They must be painful for you.
svanier
*****SPV......No, I will show you. Nirvana is the extinction of the
mind, of the daydream, of thought. It does not mean the extinction of
all consciousness. I know this because I go beyond the mind and there
is an extinction of thoughts, of desires, of daydreams. You are aware
in the present. You have learned the word Nirvana wrong because it was
not your experience and only your knowledge from a book. Knowledge is
first level knowledge and awareness of experience is wisdom or second
level knowledge as the Greeks would say. Socrates was a man of second
level knowledge and known as the wisest man in Athens.
Do you see the lesson?
Gileht.com
"Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:bhln0j$egn7$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
Extinction of what is the question.
Extinction of grasping doesn't mean extinction of activities, or
speech, or self. That would be annihilationism (nihilism). And the
Buddha didn't teach annihilationism.
The simile of the blowing out of the candle is just a simile to make
a point; it should not be taken literally. Otherwise you would just
have to kill yourself to do it.
Your understanding is very superficial, not deep enough.
Gileht
svanier
wet dream. To have your first satori you must look for it in the words
of a real Master. He will always be pointing to the present which is
moving just beyond his fingertip. The closer you are to the present the
more powerful you become. The more you move the human machine
consciousness the more grace and graceful movement you produce. You
give the body shocks to keep it awake and you remain awake and alert and
you just start to mature really fucking quick.
dogwalker
now that is pure nihilism.
i salute you comrade,
but unfortunately we
cannot be extinguished
so easily.
trust me, i have been
trying to terminate myself
for thousands of years
and it is just not impossible.
so you may as well get
used to being immortal.
svanier
**********SPV.....Compared to your understand I am the H-Bomb and you
the firefly.
dogwalker
i caution you not to underestimate maggots
they are a very successful creatures
svanier
*****SPV.....Who says I did. Just watch I will chew him up because he
is nonsense and I am telling the truth from experience. Just watch. He
will not even show up for the meet.
tiresias
clings to authorised doctrines. All of this is a sham, a story, a fantasy.
Even the enlightenment of storybook past, present and future buddhas does
not exist and I do not mean that they do not exist inherently or separately,
I mean they do not exist except as mere appearances, story-book characters
without awareness of any kind. None of what I perceive has any inherent
existence except to my awareness. Nothing exists inherently or separately
from my awareness.
The so-called Middle Way is another lie, another deception that helps delay
the realisation that there is no awareness but your own and no other
conscious or unconscious beings. To say that everything does not exist
inherently, means that everything does not exist independently of you, when
it says everything is not non-existence it means that everything is just
like a dream.
In the void self-awareness persists despite there being no sense of
other-self. This may be heresy to your intellectually formed views and even
to your partial experiences of peace. There is no consciousness without a
sense of self however subtle. The humour is that the Great Unconscious Void
becomes conscious through a point of view or a self-awareness which is
dependent on having a story or continuum of consciousness that is actually
created in the present and involves a fantasy that there are things and
beings that exist even if only as mere appearances to the self-awareness.
"Gileht.com" <I.d...@want.spam.net> wrote in message
news:bhlgu1$1o1$1...@news.eusc.inter.net...
tiresias
change.
"svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:Ucs%a.12$t27....@news.uswest.net...
> *******SPV.....Is this your submission for the 2003 World Zen
> Championship? Look like a good Professor at the University of Higher
> Consciousness I will correct the work for you so that you can turn in
> the "A" paper when it is due.
>
> tiresias wrote:
>
> > T---I persist although I am void.
>
> *****SPV.....A dream, for if you are persisting then you are not void
> you are persistance. So you must start another way. Anyway Mr.T you
> must have heard my lessons on claiming nonsense. You have yet to
> experience the void so you don't have a clue what it is. So you claim
> and your claim was silly and lacked logic and was ill-logical. If you
> are presistance than you couldn't possible be void. I said it twice to
> I need to say it a third time for you to "get" it?
T---this shows that you have never gone beyond the script but as only I can
have done that I cannot hold it aganst you. My view is so far beyond even
your most way-out musings that it is utterly beyond your comprehension. I
have perceved everything as merely dream for many years now. It is my truth.
You can have yours obviously, but each to their own.
svanier
*********SPV......Yes you should know. You must be an expert.
You guys are so stupid. Your focus is outside yourself and so you do
not see what you say. If you were self-aware knowing that everything
you say, every time you open you mouth you are drawing attention back to
yourself with your own stupidity.
I could help you with this. Just don't say anything, ever.
tiresias
"Lee Frank
> >
> Nirvana actually means extinction. Where will your experiences or your
> knowledge take you if you are extinguished like a blowing out of the
candle
> flame ?
>
nirvana as it is described.
svanier
> T---Vanier, you are one of the amusing characters in my dreamscape. Never
> change.
*****SPV.....You have your dreamscape and then you have your reality and
then there is me the next level above and I am waving to you to go on.
Gileht.com
> T---you write as someone who has never gone beyond the written
script and
> clings to authorised doctrines.
First the full technicolor blowing out in order to vent the
frustration of being found at fault.
Hey fault of logical argument what can an immature ignorant do ?
Right ?
> All of this is a sham, a story, a fantasy.
> Even the enlightenment of storybook past, present and future
buddhas does
> not exist and I do not mean that they do not exist inherently or
separately,
Then completely out of control, raging, he follows with completely
meaningless and wrong statements.
Listen pal: You got it all upside down. They do not exist inherently
or separately! But that doesn't mean that they do not exist at all.
> I mean they do not exist except as mere appearances, story-book
characters
> without awareness of any kind.
So you accept that you have awareness, but refuse it to all others,
even Buddha ????
Is this some kind of New Age mumbo jumbo ??
> None of what I perceive has any inherent
> existence except to my awareness.
If they have inherent existence to your awareness then you are at
fault by taking your illusions to be real.
> Nothing exists inherently or separately from my awareness.
You said the opposite above.
> The so-called Middle Way is another lie,
You live in dualism if you think there are truth and lies. That is
your lie.
By the way I never said that the Middle Way was an absolute truths;
on the contrary I said it was empty.
> another deception that helps delay
> the realisation that there is no awareness but your own and no
other
> conscious or unconscious beings.
So you accept that you have awareness, but refuse it to all others,
even Buddha ????
You don,t make sense at all.
> To say that everything does not exist
> inherently, means that everything does not exist independently of
you, when
> it says everything is not non-existence it means that everything
is just
> like a dream.
And vice versa. You don't exist independently of the rest. That part
you don't get yet. Right ?
You seem to have falling into the extreme of idealism.
You seem to think you are at the center of the universe or something
like that.
How could a wave be at the center of the ocean.
No no my friend, all waves are equal.
> In the void self-awareness persists despite there being no sense
of
> other-self.
If there is no other, then there is no self. They are inseparable.
You don,t have it pal.
Stop pretending.
> This may be heresy to your intellectually formed views and even
> to your partial experiences of peace.
More like bull-shit from an immature pretentious arrogant ignorant.
> There is no consciousness without a
> sense of self however subtle.
"I do not see consciousness.
I see awareness."
- Milarepa The Very Venerable
> The humour is that the Great Unconscious Void
That is major bull-shit !
> becomes conscious through a point of view or a self-awareness
which is
> dependent on having a story or continuum of consciousness that is
actually
> created in the present and involves a fantasy that there are
things and
> beings that exist even if only as mere appearances to the
self-awareness.
Way too much confusion in your stuff man.
Sorry, but I will have to make you fail this course.
Gileht
svanier
*****SPV....Because they are wrong. Look let me tell you my experience.
I would go deep into meditation and thoughts were extinish and I would
then be alone and floating then the bliss would come. How could this
not be the way? Where am I wrong? If not bliss what then do you want?
Bliss is the nectar of the Gods. And if not bliss for a goal then
what are you struggling for?
I keep showing you the correct and proper path and there is no ignorance
or stupid or abuse of even cost and you guys reject.
I give you the perfect path and you reject for all kinds of reasons.
Now how fucking dumb are you? I don't ask for money, nor sex, no
worship nor anything. I give it all and who will take it? Nobody even
is interested. Look, Look here is gold! And people look at you funny.
svanier
> "tiresias" <m...@mine.net> a écrit dans le message de
> news:bhlpv7$red4$1...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>>T---you write as someone who has never gone beyond the written
>
> script and
>
>>clings to authorised doctrines.
>
>
> First the full technicolor blowing out in order to vent the
> frustration of being found at fault.
> Hey fault of logical argument what can an immature ignorant do ?
> Right ?
*******SPV......I am an outsider and not on Mr.T's side. I am reporting
you are wrong Gilbert. You are found at fault and you are blowing out
in frustration here. You can't see it but it's true.
Gileht.com
If you think unconsiousness is Nirvana then why don't you hit
yourself with a hammer on the head !!
That will blow your candles out all right !
As for Nirvana ... pfffff ... you can hope !!!
Gileht
dogwalker
i want lots of bliss
what should i do?
svanier
**********SPV......You must read the truth of your Master. I know
Nirvana from experience and I say you don't know Nirvana at all.
Come and embrase me. Your ego will dissolve and you will be mine.
splitwheels
> "Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> a écrit dans le message de
> news:bhlf0j$mkj2$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "tiresias" <m...@mine.net> wrote in message
>
> > Nothing can be learned from words.
>
>
> > Especially when your true nature is knowledge itself.
>
>
> > How can pure infinite knowledge learn anything ?
>
> That is the hinayana view; the opposition of samsara and Nirvana.
> That is indulging into dualism.
> They are not incompatible. In fact they are inseparable, fully
> compatible.
>
>
> And after being drowning into dualism, you claim back non-duality as
> a proof to your theory in the following:
>
> > Drops to
> > the ocean simply looks at oneself as a separate thing to begin
> with merging
> > with its source but source and the drops were never separated to
> begin with
> > and the notion that something separate is merging back is also
> just
> > illusion. The play of consciousness needs the masquerade and
> disguises in
> > order to continue its play. If all the veils of illusion were to
> be lifted,
> > the masquerade would be over.
>
> studying, and meditating. You have not understood/realized it yet.
>
> Sorry.
>
> Gileht
Where does the River end and the Ocean begin? What merges into what?
River to Ocean? Ocean to River? Where does the Lake end and the River
begin? Does the Lake become the River or the River become the Lake?
svanier
*****SPV.....Oh, look I have found a hook!
Gileht.com
"splitwheels" <split...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:68307c25.03081...@posting.google.com...
Ok ok let's take the wave and the ocean, it is more common.
The question is "are they one or two?" "Can we distinguish one from
the other."
The usual answer is : no.
The detailed answer is:
They are not separate/different, but still not the same.
One cannot exist without the other, one implies the other.
They are inseparable, conceptually interdependent, non-dual: not
two, not one.
And this also applies to cause and effect, to space and objects,
time and objects, mind and apparent world objects (concepts and
matter), self ad others, no-self and karma, one and two, good and
bad, left and right, pure and impure, Nirvana and samsara, wisdom
and method/merit, emptiness and dependent arising, non-existence and
existence, discontinuity and continuity, conceptualization and
non-conceptualization, duality and non-duality ... to all
conceptually related pairs (or duality).
That is non-duality beyond all conceptualization (even beyond the
duality duality vs. non-duality).
Gileht
svanier
*****SPV.....You learned this from a book. Tell us your experience in
life of these things?
dogwalker
fuk wat a drag
lol
dogwalker
there is the remote possibility
that we could all be related
in some insidious fashion
so maybe you are the hand
waving to the foot
dogwalker
uh, you might want to have a
couple of drinks first
dogwalker
"splitwheels" <split...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:68307c25.03081...@posting.google.com...
the mouth is above the ass
he
eh
dogwalker
naked ape
"dogwalker" <d...@gy.com> wrote in message
news:Pxt%a.10236$kp4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Around here they are, especially when their fed with attention. .. Ape;)
svanier
> Where does the River end and the Ocean begin? What merges into what?
> River to Ocean? Ocean to River? Where does the Lake end and the River
> begin? Does the Lake become the River or the River become the Lake?
*****SPV.....I don't anyone that gives a shit.
dogwalker
ok you have a nice day
naked ape
we lost the clear vision of our childhood. .. Ape;)
"dogwalker" <d...@gy.com> wrote in message
news:QLs%a.10187$kp4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> news:HZr%a.11$t27....@news.uswest.net...
> > dogwalker wrote:
> >
> > > "Gileht.com" <I.d...@want.spam.net> wrote in message
> > > news:bhkm0j$kls$1...@news.eusc.inter.net...
> > >
> > >>What you are describing is "grasping at the Middle Way", not the
> > >>Middle Way itself which is beyond all conceptualization, a
> > >>non-affirmative negation.
> > >>
> > >>It is like emptiness. If you grasp at emptiness then you are a fool.
> > >>But if you use emptiness while knowing that emptiness is also empty
> > >>(thus not grasping at it), then you are wise.
> > >>
> > >>The same for the Middle Way.
> > >>
> > >>It would be a shame if you were to miss this great opportunity just
> > >>because you are tripping over the flowers in the carpet design.
> > >>
> > >>Stop playing the fool. You are wasting your time. Death is closing
> > >>on you.
> > >>
> > >>Gileht
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > death is closing in on everyone
> > > including you
> > > soon you will be dead
> > > what is this opportunity for again?
> > > oh yes, to awaken.
> > > awaken?
> > > hellj i thought i was awake
> > > but i was only dreaming
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > *****SPV....And this is so true. And Buddha said the chance for
> > Enlightenment is so small it would be like a man in the ocean hoping for
> > a life preserver to fall from the sky.
> >
> > And why? The greatest thing the devil ever did was convince people that
> > he did not exist. The ego is the same thing but at a different level.
> > The Ego is the devil in all of us. And it does not make sense to change
> > thy brother. It does not make sense other people should show you the
> > way for they are lost themselves. Only you can fight the devil that
> > inside yourself. If everyone purged the negativity out of their own
> > hearts then the world would just get to be a better place. But that is
> > not the way. Everyone is Enlightened and they are trying to Enlighten
> > others to their own personal non-enlightened point of view.
> >
> > I got up this morning knowing the PGA Golf Tournement is going to be on
> > TV all day. So I got up at 7:23 am when my eyes openned and I realized
> > I was still with a slight sore throat. I put on some jeans and went
> > across town and bought $20 of steaks of high quality for $9.95 because
> > of the discount in that the five steaks were getting old. Or did I mean
> > aged. Then I went up the street to the liquor store and got a pint of
> > whiskey. Then I came home and I went across the street and got eggs and
> > lettuce and a bell pepper and then a cup of designer coffee and then a
> > Petite Pain of French Bread at the Breadworks and then I came home. I
> > have the air conditioner on. I have my business all caught up and
> > everyone is happy. I have a few cigarettes and a pint of Whiskey and 5
> > nice steaks and salad and dressing and gravy and bacon and eggs and
> > French Bread.
> >
> > I don't expect to see daylight for the next few days and I am going to
> > just throughly enjoy myself and being absolutely alone. If I need more
> > liquor I just walk across the street. I don't have the slightest need
> > to drive the car drunk. None whatsoever.
> >
> > You see the deal. I am working on myself to have a good time. At 50
> > this is the time I have and I can do this everyday but the body will not
> > stand for so much fun and the whiskey burns a hole in the gut if I drink
> > too much. Everything in moderation. Everything right down the middle
> > of the road. Nothing so good, and nothing so bad. Nothing much of a
> > great idea and nothing much of a bad idea.
> >
> > And now women look at me like I am a bum. Yet I am so successful.
> >
>
> successful in your own way
> cool
> maybe i will have a coffee
> i have trouble staying in the middle,
> when i drink, i tend to get to the bottom of it
> but i am changing
> now, when i am feeling healthy, and i have
> a drink, i examine how i feel right after, and
> it is not as good, so i have all but lost that comfort
> so i must replace it with another comfort
> posting on ng
>
>
>
>
>
>
naked ape
"dogwalker" <d...@gy.com> wrote in message
news:46r%a.10032$kp4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> i miss the void
> the void is where
> we go to rest after
> we leave this place
> the void is where
> thoughts are destroyed
>
SNIP
naked ape
> dogwalker wrote:
>
> > i miss the void
> > the void is where
> > we go to rest after
> > we leave this place
> > the void is where
> > thoughts are destroyed
> >
> But that is not freedom because that which you repress is there to
> take it revenge later. A real man would go in and remove the struggle
> and striff of the wounds in the unconscious and then thoughts are not
> created to begin with. You got to cut the root. You got to face the
> desires and see them for the insecurity that they are.
Without thoughts, who'd shit for you. .. Ape;))
naked ape
>
> "tiresias" <m...@mine.net> wrote in message
> news:bhld2v$n3am$1...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > T---I persist although I am void. That intellectual exercise of
nagarjuna
> is
> > merely profound deep thought to stall the thinking mind into a wordless
> > contemplation of being, a kind of koan I suppose. As the denizen and a
> > somewhat tortured face of the void I can say that if instead of the drop
> > returning to the ocean and dissolving it actually turns out to be more
> like
> > the drop goes into the ocean and then the ocean goes into the drop and
the
> > drop has to deal with that, then all these games of words of of little
> > learning value. A self-awareness of sorts most definitely endures even
> > within the void, even when there is no longer any sense of other, a
> > self-awareness persists and develops although it is not the human self
> that
> > it was before this event. A human self has a sense of other.
> >
> > I am not a non-affirming negative.
> >
> >
> knowledge itself. How can pure infinite knowledge learn anything ? Drops
to
> the ocean simply looks at oneself as a seperate thing to begin with
merging
> with its source but source and the drops were never seperated to begin
with
> and the notion that something seperate is merging back is also just
> illusion. The play of consciousness needs the masquerade and disguises in
> order to continue its play. If all the veils of illusion were to be
lifted,
> the masquerade would be over.
Hey, before you leave, pass the peanut butter. .. Ape;))
naked ape
> Lee Frank wrote:
>
>
> > Nothing can be learned from words. Especially when your true nature is
> > knowledge itself.
>
>
> knowledge. Awareness is experience. Nothing is learned at the second
> level of knowledge but that which has been experienced correctly. (That
> means when you are aware enough you experience things correctly or you
> are experience the truth of the matter without all your own shit sprayed
> over the crime scene.
Did you just spray shit on Frank's shit?
Ape, who would rather be like his dog than all of you deep thinkers.)
naked ape
>
> "svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> news:K7t%a.221$t27....@news.uswest.net...
> > Lee Frank wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Nothing can be learned from words. Especially when your true nature is
> > > knowledge itself.
> >
> >
> > *****SPV.......Still not deep enough. Your true nature is not
> > knowledge. Awareness is experience. Nothing is learned at the second
> > level of knowledge but that which has been experienced correctly. (That
> > means when you are aware enough you experience things correctly or you
> > are experience the truth of the matter without all your own shit sprayed
> > over the crime scene.
> >
> >
> >
> knowledge take you if you are extinguished like a blowing out of the
candle
> flame ?
Is extinction something a Buddhist seeks? Ape;)
naked ape
> i salute you comrade,
> but unfortunately we
> cannot be extinguished
> so easily.
> trust me, i have been
> trying to terminate myself
> for thousands of years
> and it is just not impossible.
> so you may as well get
> used to being immortal.
Wow! That's attachment. .. Ape;)
naked ape
> Lee Frank wrote:
>
> > "svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> > news:K7t%a.221$t27....@news.uswest.net...
> >
> >>Lee Frank wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Nothing can be learned from words. Especially when your true nature is
> >>>knowledge itself.
> >>
> >>
> >>*****SPV.......Still not deep enough. Your true nature is not
> >>knowledge. Awareness is experience. Nothing is learned at the second
> >>level of knowledge but that which has been experienced correctly. (That
> >>means when you are aware enough you experience things correctly or you
> >>are experience the truth of the matter without all your own shit sprayed
> >>over the crime scene.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Nirvana actually means extinction. Where will your experiences or your
> > knowledge take you if you are extinguished like a blowing out of the
candle
> > flame ?
> >
> >
> mind, of the daydream, of thought. It does not mean the extinction of
> all consciousness. I know this because I go beyond the mind and there
> is an extinction of thoughts, of desires, of daydreams. You are aware
> in the present. You have learned the word Nirvana wrong because it was
> not your experience and only your knowledge from a book. Knowledge is
> first level knowledge and awareness of experience is wisdom or second
> level knowledge as the Greeks would say. Socrates was a man of second
> level knowledge and known as the wisest man in Athens.
Socrates thought we thought with our hearts, that the brain was just filler.
.. Ape;)
>
> Do you see the lesson?
>
naked ape
> >
> >>"svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> >>news:K7t%a.221$t27....@news.uswest.net...
> >>
> >>>Lee Frank wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Nothing can be learned from words. Especially when your true
> >
> > nature is
> >
> >>>>knowledge itself.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>*****SPV.......Still not deep enough. Your true nature is not
> >>>knowledge. Awareness is experience. Nothing is learned at the
> >
> > second
> >
> >>>level of knowledge but that which has been experienced
> >
> > correctly. (That
> >
> >>>means when you are aware enough you experience things correctly
> >
> > or you
> >
> >>>are experience the truth of the matter without all your own shit
> >
> > sprayed
> >
> >>>over the crime scene.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>Nirvana actually means extinction. Where will your experiences or
> >
> > your
> >
> >>knowledge take you if you are extinguished like a blowing out of
> >
> > the candle
> >
> >>flame ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Extinction of grasping doesn't mean extinction of activities, or
> > speech, or self. That would be annihilationism (nihilism). And the
> > Buddha didn't teach annihilationism.
> > The simile of the blowing out of the candle is just a simile to make
> > a point; it should not be taken literally. Otherwise you would just
> > have to kill yourself to do it.
> >
> > Your understanding is very superficial, not deep enough.
> >
> > Gileht
> >
> >
> **********SPV.....Compared to your understand I am the H-Bomb and you
> the firefly.
Whoa! Egos collide. .. Ego:)
naked ape
>
> "Lee Frank
> > >
> > Nirvana actually means extinction. Where will your experiences or your
> > knowledge take you if you are extinguished like a blowing out of the
> candle
> > flame ?
> >
> nirvana as it is described.
And if they could, how would they know? Ape;)
naked ape
> tiresias wrote:
>
> > "Lee Frank
> >
> >>Nirvana actually means extinction. Where will your experiences or your
> >>knowledge take you if you are extinguished like a blowing out of the
> >
> > candle
> >
> >>flame ?
> >>
> >>T---If, if and more fucking if. Nobody can experience unconsciousness
or
> >
> > nirvana as it is described.
> >
> >
> I would go deep into meditation and thoughts were extinish and I would
> then be alone and floating then the bliss would come. How could this
> not be the way? Where am I wrong? If not bliss what then do you want?
> Bliss is the nectar of the Gods. And if not bliss for a goal then
> what are you struggling for?
>
> I keep showing you the correct and proper path and there is no ignorance
> or stupid or abuse of even cost and you guys reject.
>
> I give you the perfect path and you reject for all kinds of reasons.
> Now how fucking dumb are you? I don't ask for money, nor sex, no
> worship nor anything. I give it all and who will take it? Nobody even
> is interested. Look, Look here is gold! And people look at you funny.
Last night we watched three Soprano episodes on CD. It was bliss. I felt
like a God. .. Ape;))
naked ape
Have the heart, soul and clear vision of a child. Be the monkey. .. Ape;)
naked ape
>
> "tiresias" <m...@mine.net> a écrit dans le message de
> news:bhlqrv$r7h5$3...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Lee Frank
> > > >
> > > Nirvana actually means extinction. Where will your experiences
> or your
> > > knowledge take you if you are extinguished like a blowing out of
> the
> > candle
> > > flame ?
> > >
> > >T---If, if and more fucking if. Nobody can experience
> unconsciousness or
> > nirvana as it is described.
>
>
> yourself with a hammer on the head !!
> That will blow your candles out all right !
>
> As for Nirvana ... pfffff ... you can hope !!!
>
> Gileht
Nirvana was a band, and its lead singer killed himself. .. Ape;)
naked ape
> Gileht.com wrote:
>
> > "tiresias" <m...@mine.net> a écrit dans le message de
> > news:bhlqrv$r7h5$3...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >>"Lee Frank
> >>
> >>>Nirvana actually means extinction. Where will your experiences
> >
> > or your
> >
> >>>knowledge take you if you are extinguished like a blowing out of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>candle
> >>
> >>>flame ?
> >>>
> >>>T---If, if and more fucking if. Nobody can experience
> >
> > unconsciousness or
> >
> >>nirvana as it is described.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you think unconsiousness is Nirvana then why don't you hit
> > yourself with a hammer on the head !!
> > That will blow your candles out all right !
> >
> > As for Nirvana ... pfffff ... you can hope !!!
> >
> > Gileht
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Nirvana from experience and I say you don't know Nirvana at all.
>
> Come and embrase me. Your ego will dissolve and you will be mine.
LOLOLOLOLOL. ...
>
naked ape
Cut it out! I'm laughing so hard my ass is about to fall off. .. Ape;)))
naked ape
as one of fullness, not emptiness. .. Ape;)
"Gileht.com" <I.d...@want.spam.net> wrote in message
news:bhlgu1$1o1$1...@news.eusc.inter.net...
> Second try !
>
> First: Emptiness, or the Tetralemma, or the Middle Way are
> non-affirming negation; not you !
> The question was about the Middle Way, not about the self.
>
> Second, you are underestimating Nagarjuna's teaching. It is a lost
> for you. You "suppose" too much without any proof.
>
> Maybe you are afraid that emptiness, or returning to the ocean as
> you said, would mean that you completely lose your identity, your
> self.
> Well, that would be falling into nihilism.
> Emptiness doesn't deny you self, it only deny its independent
> existence.
> So you see there is no reason to be afraid of water. You are already
> immerse in it, but still you are dependently arisen and functional.
> No ? :-)
>
> Gileht
>
>
> "tiresias" <m...@mine.net> a écrit dans le message de
> news:bhld2v$n3am$1...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > T---I persist although I am void. That intellectual exercise of
> nagarjuna is
> > merely profound deep thought to stall the thinking mind into a
> wordless
> > contemplation of being, a kind of koan I suppose. As the denizen
> and a
> > somewhat tortured face of the void I can say that if instead of
> the drop
> > returning to the ocean and dissolving it actually turns out to be
> more like
> > the drop goes into the ocean and then the ocean goes into the drop
> and the
> > drop has to deal with that, then all these games of words of of
> little
> > learning value. A self-awareness of sorts most definitely endures
> even
> > within the void, even when there is no longer any sense of other,
> a
> > self-awareness persists and develops although it is not the human
> self that
> > it was before this event. A human self has a sense of other.
> >
> > I am not a non-affirming negative.
> >
> >
> > "Gileht.com" <I.d...@want.spam.net> wrote in message
> > news:bhkm0j$kls$1...@news.eusc.inter.net...
> > >
> > > What you are describing is "grasping at the Middle Way", not the
> > > Middle Way itself which is beyond all conceptualization, a
> > > non-affirmative negation.
> > >
> > > It is like emptiness. If you grasp at emptiness then you are a
> fool.
> > > But if you use emptiness while knowing that emptiness is also
> empty
> > > (thus not grasping at it), then you are wise.
> > >
> > > The same for the Middle Way.
> > >
> > > It would be a shame if you were to miss this great opportunity
> just
> > > because you are tripping over the flowers in the carpet design.
> > >
> > > Stop playing the fool. You are wasting your time. Death is
> closing
> > > on you.
> > >
> > > Gileht
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "tiresias" <m...@mine.net> a écrit dans le message de
> > > news:bhk0hu$dplr$1...@ID-167739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > T---the so-called Middle Way is just another extreme view.
> It's
> > > major flaw
> > > > is that it takes the extreme view that it is not an extreme
> view.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Return of the BWZ" <b...@fake.email.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3f3d7f69$0$10354$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > > > > That's an extreme view too Lee. The world is not a temporary
> > > sideshow, nor
> > > > > is it real.
> > > > >
> > > > > One has to play with the toys in order to bore of them I
> think.
> > > There
> > > > isn't
> > > > > actually an exit at all. The reality of your life is all
> that
> > > there is no
> > > > > exit. No escape whatsover.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Followers of the Way, here and there you hear it said that
> > > there is a Way
> > > > > to be practiced, a Dharma to become enlightened to. Will you
> > > tell me then
> > > > > just what Dharma there is to be enlightened to, what Way
> there
> > > is to
> > > > > practice? In your present activities, what is it you lack,
> what
> > > is it that
> > > > > practice must mend? But those little greenhorn monks don't
> > > understand this
> > > > > and immediately put faith in that bunch of wild fox spirits,
> > > letting them
> > > > > spout their ideas and tie people in knots, saying, 'When
> > > principle and
> > > > > practice match one another and proper precaution is taken
> with
> > > regard to
> > > > the
> > > > > three types of karma of body, mouth, and mind, only then can
> one
> > > attain
> > > > > Budhahood.' People who go on like that are as plentiful as
> > > springtime
> > > > > showers."
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.gileht.com/Chan/rinzai.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Sean
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:bhirjg$1t81$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > > The words spill out spontaneously. I however abide at that
> > > prior to
> > > > > concepts
> > > > > > state, and as such, all words, concepts, knowledge and
> wisdom
> > > is totally
> > > > > > useless in the Ultimate. All this verbal masturbation is
> > > totally useless
> > > > > in
> > > > > > that prior-most principle and all paths, disciplines and
> > > practices are
> > > > > truly
> > > > > > for naught. The only thing that it is good for is as a
> pointer
> > > to one
> > > > who
> > > > > is
> > > > > > juxtaposed against the apparitional aspects of the
> physical
> > > > manifestation
> > > > > > and is in need of a direction to exit this flimsy
> temporary
> > > sideshow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Return of the BWZ" <b...@fake.email.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:3f3ced5a$0$10355$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > > > > > > I'm quite happy posting to you Lee. No complaints here.
> I
> > > enjoy your
> > > > > > > bullshit - it's fine by me, really it is just great.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You know for someone who says they aren't aware of
> existing,
> > > you have
> > > > an
> > > > >
> > > > > > > awful lot to say however hehehehe.
> > > > > > > Your Hindu teachers must have had a great time tying you
> up
> > > in knots.
> > > > > You
> > > > > > > have so many unchallenged beliefs it's quite funny to
> see.
> > > Come on my
> > > > > > boy -
> > > > > > > it's time to drop all those religious cliches.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sean
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:bhipd8$11o1$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > > > > Your spiritual mal-content is no-one else's concern
> but
> > > your own. No
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > > here cares if you are discontent spiritually and spend
> > > your time
> > > > > judging
> > > > > > > > others paths or others feelings as to be bullshit and
> your
> > > > particular
> > > > > > path
> > > > > > > > to be the correct and surest way to a Buddha-like
> nature.
> > > The angst
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > feel is obvious in your posts and this discrepancy
> wherein
> > > you have
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > conflict between your 'heart' and your intellect would
> be
> > > much
> > > > better
> > > > > > > served
> > > > > > > > if you could somehow see your way clear to the prior
> to
> > > concepts
> > > > > state.
> > > > > > > Your
> > > > > > > > own relishment of your malcontent may be an
> inescapable
> > > cage though
> > > > > and
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > don't envy your position of trying to escape from it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Return of the BWZ" <b...@fake.email.com> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > > > news:3f3ce1a5$0$10358$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > > > > > > > > Bullshit.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sean
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > news:bhgl3f$iril$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > > > > > > I'm not speaking of the physical heart but your
> core
> > > of
> > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > seed or essence of the consciousness.
> Consciousness is
> > > simply a
> > > > > > > latency
> > > > > > > > > > turned potency of the elemental food body caused
> by
> > > the friction
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > interactive play of the elements. That which is
> the
> > > support of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > consciousness is your core nature and must be
> sought
> > > out in the
> > > > > > > 'heart'.
> > > > > > > > > > Once you are able to abide as this core nature,
> all
> > > attention
> > > > > given
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > physical senses and physical sensations takes a
> back
> > > seat to
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > intuitive
> > > > > > > > > > apperception that instinctively guides you away
> from
> > > the
> > > > temporary
> > > > > > > > > transient
> > > > > > > > > > nature of the knowingness.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
naked ape
> T---you write as someone who has never gone beyond the written script and
> Even the enlightenment of storybook past, present and future buddhas does
> not exist and I do not mean that they do not exist inherently or
separately,
> existence except to my awareness. Nothing exists inherently or separately
> from my awareness.
Yes, you are the truth, and a unique Universe that wouldn't exist without
you. ..
Ape:)
> The so-called Middle Way is another lie, another deception that helps
delay
> the realisation that there is no awareness but your own and no other
> conscious or unconscious beings.
If that is true, then what am I, a figment of your imagination? Ape;)
> inherently, means that everything does not exist independently of you,
when
> it says everything is not non-existence it means that everything is just
> like a dream. In the void self-awareness persists despite there being no
sense of
> other-self. This may be heresy to your intellectually formed views and
even
> to your partial experiences of peace. There is no consciousness without a
> sense of self however subtle. The humour is that the Great Unconscious
Void
> becomes conscious through a point of view or a self-awareness which is
> dependent on having a story or continuum of consciousness that is actually
> created in the present and involves a fantasy that there are things and
> beings that exist even if only as mere appearances to the self-awareness.
>
>
> "Gileht.com" <I.d...@want.spam.net> wrote in message
> news:bhlgu1$1o1$1...@news.eusc.inter.net...
> > Second try !
> >
> > First: Emptiness, or the Tetralemma, or the Middle Way are
> > non-affirming negation; not you !
> > The question was about the Middle Way, not about the self.
> >
> > Second, you are underestimating Nagarjuna's teaching. It is a lost
> > for you. You "suppose" too much without any proof.
> >
> > Maybe you are afraid that emptiness, or returning to the ocean as
> > you said, would mean that you completely lose your identity, your
> > self.
> > Well, that would be falling into nihilism.
> > Emptiness doesn't deny you self, it only deny its independent
> > existence.
> > So you see there is no reason to be afraid of water. You are already
> > immerse in it, but still you are dependently arisen and functional.
> > No ? :-)
> >
> > Gileht
SNIP
naked ape
> >
> >>T---you write as someone who has never gone beyond the written
> >
> > script and
> >
> >>clings to authorised doctrines.
> >
> >
> > frustration of being found at fault.
> > Hey fault of logical argument what can an immature ignorant do ?
> > Right ?
>
>
> you are wrong Gilbert. You are found at fault and you are blowing out
> in frustration here. You can't see it but it's true.
This time around I agree with Gileht. If we don't all exist, none of us do.
.. Ape;)
>
naked ape
> Gileht.com wrote:
>
> > "splitwheels" <split...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de
> > news:68307c25.03081...@posting.google.com...> > news:<bhlfso$1fu$2...@news.eusc.inter.net>...
> >
> >>>"Lee Frank" <sa...@divine.com> a écrit dans le message de
> >>>news:bhlf0j$mkj2$1...@ID-163374.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>That is the hinayana view; the opposition of samsara and
> >
> > Nirvana.
> >
> >>>That is indulging into dualism.
> >>>They are not incompatible. In fact they are inseparable, fully
> >>>compatible.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>And after being drowning into dualism, you claim back
> >
> > non-duality as
> >
> >>>a proof to your theory in the following:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>the ocean simply looks at oneself as a separate thing to begin
> >>>
> >>> with merging
> >>>
> >>>>with its source but source and the drops were never separated
> >
> > to
> >
> >>> begin with
> >>>
> >>>>and the notion that something separate is merging back is also
> >>>
> >>> just
> >>>
> >>>>illusion. The play of consciousness needs the masquerade and
> >>>
> >>> disguises in
> >>>
> >>>>order to continue its play. If all the veils of illusion were
> >
> > to
> >
> >>> be lifted,
> >>>
> >>>>the masquerade would be over.
> >>>
> >
> > return
> >
> >>>studying, and meditating. You have not understood/realized it
> >
> > yet.
> >
> >>>Sorry.
> >>>
> >>>Gileht
> >>
> >
> > what?
> >
> >>River to Ocean? Ocean to River? Where does the Lake end and the
> >
> > River
> >
> >>begin? Does the Lake become the River or the River become the
> >
> > Lake?
> >
> >
> > The question is "are they one or two?" "Can we distinguish one from
> > the other."
> > The usual answer is : no.
> >
> > The detailed answer is:
> > They are not separate/different, but still not the same.
> > One cannot exist without the other, one implies the other.
> life of these things?
My first word was, "Hot." Ape;)
dogwalker
"naked ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:yhw%a.3409$_P1....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
dogwalker
"naked ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:oiw%a.3413$_P1...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
naked ape
"dogwalker" <d...@gy.com> wrote in message
news:vlz%a.11059$kp4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
svanier
> The void isn't a place. It's the lack of one. .. Ape;)
>
******SPV...Tell us your experience of the void then.
svanier
*************SPV.......Now how could the void exist without some type of
consciousness to be aware of the void? By it's very nature it must be
full of consciousness. So to call it a void would only be saying that
it is void of something. Not totally void then nothing would know it
even existed and something imagine in the mind is not a real thing. So
if the void is real then it must be experience and to do that it must be
full of your own awarness so when they say the void, it is not a literal
void, it is a high state of conscious void of thoughts and daydreams and
wounds and emotions.
svanier
**************SPV.....The void is the space in deep meditation where the
body is so still it might as well be asleep and the mind is not thinking
and desires are not desiring and the emotions are not emoting. You are
alone, existing in eternity. You are floating, a point of pure
awareness floating in eternity or the void.
But you guys have never meditated watching the breath so you don't know
what I am talking about. You would rather imagine you know.
naked ape
> naked ape wrote:
>
> > The void isn't a place. It's the lack of one. .. Ape;)
> >
>
>
> ******SPV...Tell us your experience of the void then.
I've never experienced it. No one does. There's nothing to experience. ..
Ape;)
svanier
*******************SPV..........So not knowing you read books and fill
in your febble understanding with beliefs that are just simply untrue.
A real man does not have beliefs. He knows what he knows from
experience and verification and then he knows what he has not verified.
He would have no beliefs at all. He would say, "I don't know."
Now being you guys are maybe above average in intelligence and can work
a computer and at least write English you are like ants and maggots in
your efforts to verify the silly shit you profess from your febble book
learning of religion.
So considering I have very little to work with, we shall work the void
for the World Zen Championship.
Do any of you children have any experience with the void. If so could
you tell us what experience and how you attain to the void. In other
words could you verify for us your silly beliefs.
OK, who wants to go first. Which of you think they know what the VOID is?
svanier
***********SPV......Now isn't that a dumb answer. So the Void does not
exist? But if it doesn't exist then how can it be void of anything?
Your logic is not sound. To have a void you must have something that is
empty. And if something exist then you can experience it if nothing
else but a void of something.
You will not admit that your understanding of the void is wrong. I mean
I can prove it to you a 100 different ways. Keep trying.
dogwalker
"naked ape" <naked...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:BeA%a.5088$kK4....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
dogwalker
although nothing is there
you can move through the void.
does watching one's breath on a
freezing cold day count as meditation?
svanier
> maybe but how do you define a place
>
>>>>>i miss the void
>>>>>the void is where
>>>>>we go to rest after
>>>>>we leave this place
>>>>>the void is where
>>>>>thoughts are destroyed
********SPV.......This is true. The void is beyond the mind and
thoughts and daydreams and emotions and the body. It is that spot in
deep meditation when your pure awareness has grown from watching the
breath that everything goes to sleep but your awareness of being.
Just take a deep breath and look around the room you are in. Just
stopping the breath stops the thoughts and pure awareness is there for a
few moments. Just be aware of the held breath and the room and the body
you inhabit. The human machine is just something to carry the awareness
that is really you. In that moment where the mind is not thinking you
are aware of your world in the present. You can experience the void in
the marketplace. It is called the first Satori. And in the new World
Zen Championship we will be arguing and some of the arguments will take
us into the void. Let us know your experience.
svanier
>
> although nothing is there
> you can move through the void.
*******SPV....Tell us of your experience. Tell us the details. Tell us
the momment you realized you were moving through the void?
> does watching one's breath on a
> freezing cold day count as meditation?
********SPV.....Cold day? Warm day? What difference if you watch the
breath? I will tell you the difference between you and me. When you
are cold you dream of it being warm and you think about the girlfriend
at home near the fire and the wine and the sex later in the day. When I
am cold, I get up and put on a jacket. When you are hot you daydream
about getting in the cool tub with the girlfriend giving you head over
the side of the tub and the cold beer, and I just take of my shirt and
moving into the shade.
You are full of thoughts and daydreams and desires and I live my life in
the Void.
Your life is a wreck and my life has some grace to it.
You must admit that I live better than anyone without much money at all.
You got to admit I live with tons of grace.
naked ape
I'd say a void filled by your consciousness isn't a void. It's something
else. .. Ape;)
dogwalker
ji agree about the beliefs
and i have experience with the void
lol
but i did not attain it or anything
actually i don't see any attaining anywhere
but it is difficult to explain why not
Lee Frank
> *****SPV....Because they are wrong. Look let me tell you my experience.
> I would go deep into meditation and thoughts were extinish and I would
> then be alone and floating then the bliss would come. How could this
> not be the way? Where am I wrong? If not bliss what then do you want?
> Bliss is the nectar of the Gods. And if not bliss for a goal then
> what are you struggling for?
>
9 Stages of Samadhi
1. Sa Vitarka; This stage is the fringes of initial samadhi accompanied by
supra-mental deliberation called vitarka. In this initial stage there is
ideation but not thought. At this stage samadhi is still knowledge bearing.
2. Nir-vitarka; This stage is without supra-mental deliberation and can
contain astral and causal sounds, light and knowledge.
3. Vichara; In this stage, supra-mentation renews reflection of ideation but
not of thought.
4. Nir-vichara; In this stage the supra-mentationional ideation has ceased
and gives way to transcendent knowledge which is clear and truth-bearing.
5. Ananda; In this stage you withdraw from all objective realities. This
stage is an enstasis that is connected with the awareness of supreme bliss.
In this stage one must relinquish the attachment to bliss to progress
further.
6. Asmita; This stage is an enstasis with the scepter of being. Asmita is
the last of the samadhis classified as extroverted enstasis with
supra-mental cognition of matter. These stages are known as samprajnata
samadhi, meaning with transcendental knowledge.
7. Purusha-khyati; This stage is total , uninterrupted discerning vision
between universe and the self. This stage begins the transcending of
supra-mental knowledge.
8. Asam praj-nata; This stage of samadhi is the enstasis obtained by
complete renunciation of all worldly objects. This state is devoid of
conscious impressions and only subconscious impressions remain. These
subconscious impressions are called samskaras
9. Dharma-mega; Dharma-mega samadhi is the enstasis producing an involution
of the primary energies, or gunas. This samadhi crosses over completely from
relative existence.
Emancipation; Kaivalya
After these 9 steps of samadhi are obtained, and one can dive right past
certain steps when in deep meditation, Kaivalya is the final stage. This
state can be symbolically described as amorphous clay; it can be changed
into anything.
svanier
******SPV....Fair enough. And I would say that a void that does not
exist is not a void either. You can't have it both ways.
naked ape
> svanier wrote:
>
> > svanier wrote:
> >
> >> naked ape wrote:
> >>
> >>> The void isn't a place. It's the lack of one. .. Ape;)
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ******SPV...Tell us your experience of the void then.
> >>
> > *************SPV.......Now how could the void exist without some type of
> > consciousness to be aware of the void? By it's very nature it must be
> > full of consciousness. So to call it a void would only be saying that
> > it is void of something. Not totally void then nothing would know it
> > even existed and something imagine in the mind is not a real thing. So
> > if the void is real then it must be experience and to do that it must be
> > full of your own awarness so when they say the void, it is not a literal
> > void, it is a high state of conscious void of thoughts and daydreams and
> > wounds and emotions.
> >
>
>
> **************SPV.....The void is the space in deep meditation where the
> body is so still it might as well be asleep and the mind is not thinking
> and desires are not desiring and the emotions are not emoting. You are
> alone, existing in eternity. You are floating, a point of pure
> awareness floating in eternity or the void.
If "you" still exist, and "you" are aware that "you" are alone, and "you"
have the sensation of floating, "you" are not the experience of "you" not
being "you." Anyone can go to Disneyland. .. Ape;)
svanier
>
>>
>>**************SPV.....The void is the space in deep meditation where the
>>body is so still it might as well be asleep and the mind is not thinking
>>and desires are not desiring and the emotions are not emoting. You are
>>alone, existing in eternity. You are floating, a point of pure
>>awareness floating in eternity or the void.
>
>
> If "you" still exist, and "you" are aware that "you" are alone, and "you"
> have the sensation of floating, "you" are not the experience of "you" not
> being "you." Anyone can go to Disneyland. .. Ape;)
>
*********SPV.....There is no *I* because there is no thinking. There is
no lonilness because you are *alone* and you exist in this void. The
moment you daydream you are somewhere else and in a dream. The void is
the absence of thinking and dreaming and feeling like the body. Body
idenification is gone. You are alone and existing in eternity.
naked ape
Where were you before you were conceived? Nowhere as nothing, right? If my
memory serves me right, that's the void that got this discussion started.
Being aware of my unawareness has never been my bag. .. Ape;)
svanier
> "svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> news:lpu%a.1043$t27....@news.uswest.net...
>
>>*****SPV....Because they are wrong. Look let me tell you my experience.
>> I would go deep into meditation and thoughts were extinish and I would
>>then be alone and floating then the bliss would come. How could this
>>not be the way? Where am I wrong? If not bliss what then do you want?
>> Bliss is the nectar of the Gods. And if not bliss for a goal then
>>what are you struggling for?
>>
>
>
> 9 Stages of Samadhi
>
> 1. Sa Vitarka; This stage is the fringes of initial samadhi accompanied by
> supra-mental deliberation called vitarka. In this initial stage there is
> ideation but not thought. At this stage samadhi is still knowledge bearing.
*****SPV....So you watch the breath and you are aware that the breath is
the breath and the body is the body and your emotions the emotions yet
you are not thinking about them.
>
> 2. Nir-vitarka; This stage is without supra-mental deliberation and can
> contain astral and causal sounds, light and knowledge.
*********SPV.....You are sitting and you can hear the kids playing down
the street two doors down and you can hear the cars on the street and it
is subtle but you are more aware then ever before of what is going on
around you. (I had a van once and I lived in it on the street. The
crickets and I would just fall into tune because I have a Buddhafield
and those near me fall into tune with me. That is why I always send
them away. So they will grow and become real men on their own. So the
crickets would churp and I would just be aware and when an animal came
like a fox or a racoon or a skunk they would drop into a half note.
Then when nothing was there they would go back. When a man came buy
they would stop altogether. You couldn't but a more sensitive system
for alerting you to what was going on for about 1/2 a block around you.)
>
> 3. Vichara; In this stage, supra-mentation renews reflection of ideation but
> not of thought.
*********SPV.....Going deeper you feel the wound of your being for the
negative repressed emotions that they are. You feel guilt but there is
no mind and no blame. You feel anger but there is nothing to be angry
about. There is no thought.
>
> 4. Nir-vichara; In this stage the supra-mentationional ideation has ceased
> and gives way to transcendent knowledge which is clear and truth-bearing.
*************SPV.....This is looking at reality without the ego to shade
things. You look with clarity because your own wounds are healed and
you are not pissing on everything or trying to leave your sent.
>
> 5. Ananda; In this stage you withdraw from all objective realities. This
> stage is an enstasis that is connected with the awareness of supreme bliss.
> In this stage one must relinquish the attachment to bliss to progress
> further.
********************SPV.......Just as I have said, "No Bliss then no
Samadhi". You remember me saying that? Oh look it is a requirement of
Samadhi. This is like saying, "Unless you catch a fish you are not
eating tonight." And yes you must go beyond the bliss and you must
transcent everything. Drugs, smoking, drinking, women, everything.
>
> 6. Asmita; This stage is an enstasis with the scepter of being. Asmita is
> the last of the samadhis classified as extroverted enstasis with
> supra-mental cognition of matter. These stages are known as samprajnata
> samadhi, meaning with transcendental knowledge.
******************SPV......Oh I just said this. You must have
experience going beyond all the vices, going beyond sex and thoughts and
emotions and the body. You must have knowledge of the transcendental.
>
> 7. Purusha-khyati; This stage is total , uninterrupted discerning vision
> between universe and the self. This stage begins the transcending of
> supra-mental knowledge.
**********SPV......Now I would say this is where you are pure awareness
>
> 8. Asam praj-nata; This stage of samadhi is the enstasis obtained by
> complete renunciation of all worldly objects. This state is devoid of
> conscious impressions and only subconscious impressions remain. These
> subconscious impressions are called samskaras
*********************SPV....This is where you exist in the void.
Nothing of samskaras should remain. You are beyond all of that now.
You are totally alone and yet you exist. It took me a long time to
understand. God is awareness and when I was floating in the void I was
merged with God. Only God exist and each of use has a spark of God in
us. We all make up God and God is all of us. It is ONENESS.
>
> 9. Dharma-mega; Dharma-mega samadhi is the enstasis producing an involution
> of the primary energies, or gunas. This samadhi crosses over completely from
> relative existence.
*****SPV.......The opposite of existence is the void. You go beyond the
material into that which is strictly and completely spiritual.
>
> Emancipation; Kaivalya
>
> After these 9 steps of samadhi are obtained, and one can dive right past
> certain steps when in deep meditation, Kaivalya is the final stage. This
> state can be symbolically described as amorphous clay; it can be changed
> into anything.
>
>
***********************SPV.....Yes I have done all of this. I have
proven I have done all of this by putting it into realistic and *now*
terms so everyone can understand. Now enlighten me to where I am wrong.
*****SPV.....Should I go over the above? I thought you would rather go
over the real thing then some so-called Master labeling of things that
are absolutely unlabelable. But for Frank Lee, anything.
naked ape
If the void is a place, where is it? Ape;)
svanier
> "svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> news:7kB%a.1090$t27....@news.uswest.net...
>
>>naked ape wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
>>>news:BzA%a.1081$t27....@news.uswest.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>svanier wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>naked ape wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The void isn't a place. It's the lack of one. .. Ape;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>******SPV...Tell us your experience of the void then.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>*************SPV.......Now how could the void exist without some type of
>>>>consciousness to be aware of the void? By it's very nature it must be
>>>>full of consciousness. So to call it a void would only be saying that
>>>>it is void of something. Not totally void then nothing would know it
>>>>even existed and something imagine in the mind is not a real thing. So
>>>>if the void is real then it must be experience and to do that it must be
>>>>full of your own awarness so when they say the void, it is not a literal
>>>>void, it is a high state of conscious void of thoughts and daydreams and
>>>>wounds and emotions.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'd say a void filled by your consciousness isn't a void. It's something
>>>else. .. Ape;)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>******SPV....Fair enough. And I would say that a void that does not
>>exist is not a void either. You can't have it both ways.
>
>
> Where were you before you were conceived?
**************SPV.....I was floating in the magnetic field of the earth.
Where were you? The magnetic field of the earth is like a carrier
wave. It can carry your spirit, your essence, your thoughts and it is
everywhere all the time. It is my next level up and what you would call
a God aspect. You have no experience and only think you believe the
things you believe in. I know the reality. I know where we came from
was no *void* as you call it. I came from somethere and that somewhere
can be verified and explained. So your logic breaks right down here.
naked ape
"dogwalker" <d...@gy.com> wrote in message
news:gNA%a.11130$kp4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
naked ape
If you know this much about the void beyond the mind, you must have given it
a lot of thought while you were there.)) Ape;)
Lee Frank
>
> ***********************SPV.....Yes I have done all of this. I have
> proven I have done all of this by putting it into realistic and *now*
> terms so everyone can understand. Now enlighten me to where I am wrong.
>
>
>
>
> *****SPV.....Should I go over the above? I thought you would rather go
> over the real thing then some so-called Master labeling of things that
> are absolutely unlabelable. But for Frank Lee, anything.
>
Samadhi and one needs to go beyond bliss to obtain liberation. Repeated
thought-free meditation will take you there but the key word here is
repeated because in order to replace relative existence as a rendering
format for your psyche, repeated sojourns into Kaivalya must be accomplished
to have it be a permanent part of your overall perspective.
svanier
> "svanier" <sva...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> news:aJB%a.1093$t27....@news.uswest.net...
>
>>***********************SPV.....Yes I have done all of this. I have
>>proven I have done all of this by putting it into realistic and *now*
>>terms so everyone can understand. Now enlighten me to where I am wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>*****SPV.....Should I go over the above? I thought you would rather go
>>over the real thing then some so-called Master labeling of things that
>>are absolutely unlabelable. But for Frank Lee, anything.
>>
>
> I just labelled the stages because you mentioned that you were in bliss in
> Samadhi and one needs to go beyond bliss to obtain liberation.
*****************SPV.......But there must first be bliss in Samadhi to
go beyond. My words were, "No Samadhi, then no bliss." Or "No Bliss
then no Samadhi." Sure you got to go beyond everything. Pure awareness
flowing in the void in bliss is beyond everything material. Then you go
beyond that and you are *ALONE* merged with God. And God is very
orgasmic. God is incredibly blissful. But it is more subtle. It is
the final wholeness of being with bliss. It is a subtle feeling of
fulness, just being content.
naked ape
If you weren't there, how do you know? Oh, by the way, I've experienced
those same sensations, and more. Hallucinations come easily to me. ..
Daydreamer:)