What Nichiren Shoshu Doesnt Tell It's Members
marcinmd
"Taisekiji from its inception has been the central sect of Nichiren
Buddhism."
This is a deliberate false impression given by Nichiren Sho Shu
concerning their origins and status within the larger Nichiren Buddhist
community. Naïve NST members are led to believe that Taisekiji was an
important and successful temple from the time of it's founding with a
large following throughout
history. They are told that Taisekiji has carefully preserved
Nichiren's original idea's and that they separated themselves from the
heretical machinations of apostates, namely the other five Senior
Priests.
This could not be further from the truth. It is very important to learn
about the real history of Taisekiji in order to put into context it's
various doctrinal innovations. If Taisekiji was really a strong
powerful force, holding
the authority of the dominant Nichiren Buddhist group, then their
idea's no matter how far they wander from Nichiren's teachings become
at least somewhat legitimized. But when the truth is found out, that
Taisekiji was actually a very marginal Clan Temple, often barely able
to keep the doors open, then their
many changes to the doctrine of Nichiren Dai-Shonin begin to form a
pattern tied mostly to self preservation and not much more.
Taisekiji was never the central Temple of Nichiren Buddhism. It wasn't
even the Head Temple of Nikko's schismatic branch. It's claim to fame
is simply that it was the first Temple Nikko founded after walking off
Mt. Minobu when he was passed over for the position of Abbot of Kuonji
(the Temple Nichiren himself
founded on Minobu).
The Fuji area was Nikko's assigned area of propagation during
Nichiren's preaching career. After spending time at the home of his
parents, Nikko accepted an invitation by the Nanjo clan to help them
establish a family temple. This he did and remained there no longer
than eighteen months (some
accounts say he was with the Nanjo's as little as nine months). He then
moved on and did not return.
Nikko never meant Taisekiji to be a central repository or even intended
it to be the head temple of his own group. The role of "Head Temple" of
Nikko's branch was given to the next Temple he founded, Honmonji
Kityama in the town of
Omusa, not much more than a mile down the road from Taisekiji. It was
at Honmonji that Nikko spent the remainder of his life, nearly another
thirty-six years. It is at Honmonji that Nikko established a training
seminary for future Priests and is where he ordained them. Nikko Shonin
is buried at Honmonji, not at Taisekiji.
Few NST members know that the Nikko branch consisted of four main
temples. Taisekiji, Honmonji Kityama (where Nikko made his home base),
Honmonji Nishyama (created after a schism within the first Honmonji)
and finally Yoboji (the most successful Nikko branch Temple which is
located in Kyoto). The entire Nikko branch never
amounted to more than two percent of all Nichiren Buddhists, leaving
the number of Taisekiji members too low to even calculate. Honmonji was
the Head Temple,Yoboji which was located in the capital of Kyoto, was
the most important and successful with Taisekiji only out ranking
Honmonji Nishyama. Taisekiji was a third rate Temple within a small
schismatic branch that never
developed a significant following until the 20th century.
Now it should be noted that the size of a Buddhist community is not the
full measure of its value or correctness. Nichiren himself thought of
his movement as a minority of those few Buddhists with the rare ability
to take up faith in the Lotus Sutra. However, it is Taisekiji that is
seemingly ashamed of it's own history and tries to leave a false
impression to justify their nearly total reworking of Nichiren's most
basic idea's. When you start to understand that Taisekiji was
navigating throughout its history from a position of weakness rather
than strength, you can gain a more accurate insight about what
motivated their innovations to Nichiren's Buddhism. Nearly all of these
heresies were vain attempts to fill pews and pander to local
sensibilities.
Cody
"marcinmd" <marc...@aol.com> wrote
Taisekiji from its inception has been the central sect of Nichiren Buddhism.
<<<<<<<<<<
Very good, Marc. I see you're finally beginning to see the light at the end
of the tunnel.
Cody
marcinmd
Buddhism.
<<<<<<<<<<
Very good, Marc. I see you're finally beginning to see the light at the
end
of the tunnel.
Cody <<
Great dodge.. Ya really got me that time.
Of course it would be lots better if you had some evidence and a cogent
argument or two to back up your assertions, but we all know by now that
you cant do that. But congrats on the pithy comeback!
Cody
"marcinmd" <marc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124740706....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Taisekiji from its inception has been the central sect of Nichiren
> Buddhism.
> <<<<<<<<<<
>
>
> Very good, Marc. I see you're finally beginning to see the light at the
> end
> of the tunnel.
>
>
> Cody <<
>
> Great dodge.. Ya really got me that time.
Heh.
>
> Of course it would be lots better if you had some evidence and a cogent
> argument or two to back up your assertions, but we all know by now that
> you cant do that. But congrats on the pithy comeback!
Not really, Marc. I am not interested in doing the round and round with you.
Been there, done that, and refuted the shit out of you.
Now, go ahead and post your drivel for the millionth time.
Cody
>
marcinmd
you. <<
And yet you are never ten seconds away from attacking anything I
post...
Been there, done that, and refuted the shit out of you. <<
Liar
marcinmd
Cody
> Not really, Marc. I am not interested in doing the round and round with
> you. <<
>
> And yet you are never ten seconds away from attacking anything I
> post...
Not so. I am replying to this post some 2.5 hours after you posted it for
example.
> Been there, done that, and refuted the shit out of you. <<
>
> Liar
Sorry, but it's true. You've been refuted by many people. You ignore the
refutation and then spam the same old tired song again. It's pathetic.
Cody
marcinmd
many people. You ignore the refutation and then spam your drivel over
and over and over again. It's pathetic. <<
Not a fact.. At best, NST members have a list of boiler plate excuses
why they have no evidence for their sects many false claims, but never
any actual evidence... What's really pathetic is the level of denial
you are in.
Cody
"marcinmd" <marc...@aol.com> wrote
> Why should I waste my time refuting you again? You've been refuted by
> many people. You ignore the refutation and then spam your drivel over
> and over and over again. It's pathetic. <<
>
> Not a fact..
Yes, it is.
> At best, NST members have a list of boiler plate excuses
> why they have no evidence for their sects many false claims, but never
> any actual evidence... What's really pathetic is the level of denial
> you are in.
Your infantile baiting won't do what you want it to do, Mr Christian. You
preach about the Lotus Sutra yet, by virtue of your Christian beliefs, you
only reveal yourself to be a petty hypocrite that has trampled all over the
principles of the Lotus Sutra and the Gosho. You have no credibility, no
argument and you have been refuted uncountable times on this newsgroup.
Cody
marcinmd
the
principles of the Lotus Sutra and the Gosho<<
And yet, I am the one who defends the Lotus Sutra and recieves
persicution for the effort .
Funny how that works..Huh?
Cody
How it works is that you enjoy baiting, "debating" and then calling yourself
the winner and patting yourself on the back. Not interested in your neurotic
obsessions, sorry. You've been refuted to death and doing it again is a
waste of time.
"I am not very smart. You will need to go slowly for me." Marc
Strumpf, ARBN 12/17/04
Cody
robek
Marc,
What was the term you used for reverse
Shinto-Buddhist Fusion? Honge ___?
r
Julian
marcinmd wrote:
> False myth number one:
snip crap.
Give an example of a true myth instead.
Mark P.
>And yet, I am the one who defends the Lotus Sutra and recieves
>persicution for the effort .
>
Don't even think you are being persecuted Marc!
Mark Porter
"I spread this teaching because I too heard thus"
Try the new refined search feature on 175 Gosho at
http://perltng.com/lotus/
dere...@netscape.net
marcinmd wrote:
> And yet, I am the one who defends the Lotus Sutra and recieves
> persicution for the effort .
>
> Funny how that works..Huh?
Yes, we all know what a martyr you are. <rolls eyes>
Derek Juhl
dere...@netscape.net
marcinmd wrote:
> And yet, I am the one who defends the Lotus Sutra and recieves
> persicution for the effort .
>
> Funny how that works..Huh?
ARBN 10/15/04:
[Derek] Do you agree that your becoming a Christian violates the
teachings of Nichiren Daishonin?
[Marc Strumpf] Absolutely.
Derek Juhl
dere...@netscape.net
marcinmd wrote:
> And yet, I am the one who defends the Lotus Sutra and recieves
> persicution for the effort .
>
> Funny how that works..Huh?
How is practising Christianity "defending the Lotus Sutra"?
Marc Strumpf, ARBN 2/26/04:
"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made;
who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven and was
incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and made man, and was
crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried,
and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and
ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And
he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead,
whose kingdom shall have no end.
"And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who
proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with, the Father and the
Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets.
And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge
one baptism for the remission of sins. And I look for the resurrection
of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."
Derek Juhl
marcinmd
waste of time.
Er..Not really... NST member only have lame excuses... You have
realized how poorly you do in honest discussion so you wont play
anymore..It makes no difference. People can read the information and
decide for themselves what makes sense. I realize that infuriates you
since NST members think they somehow own the Internet..But that's the
brakes.
marcinmd
Shinto-Buddhist Fusion? Honge ___?
Honge Suijaku is the idea that the Buddhist deities are superior to the
local Kami..
"Reverse Honge Suijaku" was an attempt to switch the relationship and
to place the Kami in charge of the Buddhist Gods. This had a lot to do
with emerging Japanese Xenophobia.
This is the metaphysical origin of the Nichiren Shoshu's heretical
Nichiren as "True Buddha" Doctrine. They tried to sell Nichiren as a
Buddha because he was Japanese. Taisekiji has always been about "sales"
darter than Orthodoxy and that was just another lame attempt by them to
fill empty pews.
marcinmd
LOL......You guys are deeeeeeep denial... It would be funny if it were
not so pathetic..
marcinmd
Q. Do you agree that practicing with Nichiren Shoshu makes a person an
enemy of the Lotus Sutra and a bitter opponent of Nichiren Buddhism?
A. Yes..
marcinmd
A "Myth" can simply be a grand story, like the taming of the American
West.
Most times it is a perforative term and implies falsity but not
necessarily.
Most of the story Taisekiji tells about the history of Nichiren
Buddhism and their place in it is simply not true...never happed..has
no evidence behind it and is a deliberate lie foisted on naive people
for recruitment purposes. Would you like to discuss a few examples of
this...? It would be a great chance for you to show me up by presenting
actual evidence rather than just calling me names and impugning my
character
Talk is cheap
robek
I agree with you to an extent. But this type of thinking
was not limited to Taisekiji. You are speaking of Ryobu
Shinto teachings equating Kami with specific deities.
I understand that. I could not find the term you used.
Anaterasu Omikami was seen as a manifestation of Dainichi.
Ryobu Shinto views Dainichi as the primordial Buddha.
In reverse 'Honge Suijaku' Amaterasu becomes the
True Buddha. Some of what Nichiren wrote could
be read in a way that he saw himself as an incarnation
of Amaterasu.
There is no doubt some of his followers read it that way.
I do not think was just a sales pitch. They actually
believed it. When he refuted it, they thought he was
just being humble. That non-Japanese buy this amazes
me. Most Japanese have figured out that they are
not the divine race.
Of course, most Hokkeko members do not even realize
the source of this deviant teaching. And it was
likely not even Taisekiji that started it. One
of Nichizon's successors in Kyoto was the one of
the first to articulate it, I think.
Top 10 reasons SGI clings to Nichiren as True Buddha
What evidence is there to support the Nichiren & Honmon
Shoshu position; that Nichiren is the True or Original
Buddha? There is none. But there are objections within
SGI to changing the official stance. So what are the
objections to viewing Shakyamuni of the Juryo Chapter
as the True Buddha, and Nichiren as Jogyo; his messenger
for Mappo?
Top 10 reasons why SGI clings to Nichiren as True Buddha:
# 10. It would be an admission Nichiren Shu Minobu
Sect is right on this.
Continue reading "Top 10 reasons SGI clings to
Nichiren as True Buddha"
http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/000636.html#more
r
dere...@netscape.net
dere...@netscape.net wrote:
> How is practising Christianity "defending the Lotus Sutra"?
>
> Marc Strumpf, ARBN 2/26/04:
>
> "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty &c.
Marc? Hello?
Derek Juhl
Joe Steve Swick III
Your infantile baiting won't do what you want it to do, Mr Christian. You
preach about the Lotus Sutra yet, by virtue of your Christian beliefs, you
only reveal yourself to be a petty hypocrite that has trampled all over the
principles of the Lotus Sutra and the Gosho.
Fascinating. Marc, are you a Christian? How do you square that with your
Buddhist beliefs? I'm a Mormon Kabbalist, which is a kind of Christian
mystic. It seems to me that Christian mysticism has quite a bit in common
with Buddhism, and so I'd love to hear what you have to say about this.
If you know anything about Kabbalism, I wonder if you have ever thought of
the relationship between the concept of the Ten Sephiroth on the Tree of
Life (representing the 10 fundamental modes of consciousness) and the 10
Buddhist Worlds.
LOL. Come to think of it, this kind of "comparative religion" is probably
the very kind of thing that Cody brands as "trampling all over the
principles of the Lotus Sutra and the Gosho."
For me, bridge-building is a much more meaningful activity that entering
into a hell of endless bickering, hate and concretized dogmatism.
Kindest,
JSW
Joe Steve Swick III
Honge Suijaku is the idea that the Buddhist deities are superior to the
local Kami.
Actually, the Buddist term "suijaku" or "suijakushin" means "provisional
form." It refers to a Buddha or Bodhisattva taking the temporary form of a
saint or god, for the purpose of saving mankind. The term "honchi / honji"
or "honjishin" means "true form/identity." The phrase "honji suijaku" refers
specifically to the true form or identity of a Buddha or Bodhisattva who
has taken a provisional form (such as that of a Shinto god) for the purpose
of saving mankind.
The concepts of suijakushin (provisional identity) and honjishin (true
identity) seem to me to be implicit in Shakyamuni's teaching in the Juryo
chapter of the Lotus Sutra. If Shakyamuni in his honjishin or true identity
had in fact attained enlightenment millions and millions of nayutas of
kalpas ago, then the Shakyamuni who meditated beneath the bodhi tree is
logically a suijakushin or provisional identity.
Marc, is it possible that you've mixed the phrases "honji suijaku" and
"honge no bosatsu"?
___MarcinMD___
This is the metaphysical origin of the Nichiren Shoshu's heretical Nichiren
as "True Buddha" Doctrine.
----
It is an extension of this, yes. While I am not aware of Nichiren ever
stating that HE was the True Buddha in a unique way, he DID say, in the
*Shoho Jisso Sho* (WND "The True Aspect of All Phenomena," MWND "The True
Entity of Life"), that "a common mortal is an entity of the three bodies,
and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a
provisional Buddha." (WND 384a; see also MWND 90 para 2). And, according to
the Ongi Kuden, commenting on the Juryo chapter, "It is the understanding of
Nichiren and his followers that, generally speaking, the term "Thus Come
One" refers to all living beings. More specifically, it refers to the
disciples and lay pupporters of Nichiren. This being the case, the term
'eternally endowed with the three bodies' refers to the votaries of the
Lotus Sutra in the Latter Day of the Law" (Watson, Burton, trans. _The
Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings_ 124).
From this, at least, it would seem that Nichiren himself established the
philosophical framework for the claim that he is the True Buddha; however, I
am not aware of any place in which he directly states this. Rather, the term
is applied to him by Nikko Shonin and his followers.
Cheers,
JSW
dere...@netscape.net
marcinmd wrote:
> LOL......You guys are deeeeeeep denial... It would be funny if it were
> not so pathetic..
Someone who claims to be "defending the Lotus Sutra," even though he
abandoned Buddhism in favour of Christianity, is the one in denial.
Marc Strumpf, ARBN 2/26/04:
"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth,
Joe Steve Swick III
Someone who claims to be "defending the Lotus Sutra," even though he
abandoned Buddhism in favour of Christianity, is the one in denial.
___Marc___
"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth,
-----
Well, this part would seem to pose a difficulty for one who claimed to be a
Christian who believed in the Lotus Sutra. Dependent Origination is one of
the Seals of the Law. This means that while a Buddhist can believe in God,
the concept of a CREATOR God, or "first cause" is problematic.
Cheers,
JSW
robek
He appears to be referring to Brahma, or Bonten in Japan. I think
Brahma is Jesus' Pop. The jealous g-d in parts of the old Testament
seems more like the lesser divinities in the lowest desire heaven. That
is the heaven ruled by the kings of the 4 directions who appear in the
corners of the Great Mandala. These heavenly beings still have kama
{lusty desires} such as greed, jealousy, & anger.
Brahmas still have form, but are free from 'kama.' As such, they
radiate the virtues of metta/agape, compassion, altruistic joy, &
equanimity.
r
robek
Joe Steve Swick III wrote:
> Honge Suijaku is the idea that the Buddhist deities are superior to the
> local Kami.
> ----
>
> Actually, the Buddist term "suijaku" or "suijakushin" means "provisional
> form." It refers to a Buddha or Bodhisattva taking the temporary form of a
> saint or god, for the purpose of saving mankind. The term "honchi / honji"
> or "honjishin" means "true form/identity." The phrase "honji suijaku" refers
> specifically to the true form or identity of a Buddha or Bodhisattva who
> has taken a provisional form (such as that of a Shinto god) for the purpose
> of saving mankind.
>
> The concepts of suijakushin (provisional identity) and honjishin (true
> identity) seem to me to be implicit in Shakyamuni's teaching in the Juryo
> chapter of the Lotus Sutra. If Shakyamuni in his honjishin or true identity
> had in fact attained enlightenment millions and millions of nayutas of
> kalpas ago, then the Shakyamuni who meditated beneath the bodhi tree is
> logically a suijakushin or provisional identity.
>
> Marc, is it possible that you've mixed the phrases "honji suijaku" and
> "honge no bosatsu"?
"honji suijaku"
RYOBU SHINTO or HONJI SUIJAKU
http://www.geocities.com/fascin8or/jsp_honji_suijaku.htm
That makes sense now. I know the concept, but Marc's terms did not
compute. And the reversal of that, viewing the Kami as Honji and the
Buddhist divinities as Suijaku was dominant in the Kamakura Era. It is
confusing because Nichiren calls it Shingon. It was the Shingon of his
time. The core was Dainichi or Mahavairochana of the Matrix & Diamond
Cutter Worlds equals Tensho Daijin or Amaterasu Omikami or Tensho
Daijin. The reversal of this, motivated by Japanese Nativism
"Kokugaku", is indeed the source of Nichiren as Honbutusu.
"In fact, from the 8th century onwards, the Japanese people had
reconciled Shinto and Buddhism to such a degree that Buddhist temples
were built within Shinto shrine precincts and Buddhist priests were
entrusted with the running of Shinto shrines. This conciliation had
been made possible thanks to the emergence of a syncretic doctrine
known as: Ryobu Shinto [or:Honji Suijaku], which - essentially by
initially equating the Kami Spirit-Beings of Shinto with Buddhist
Deities (i.e. Buddhas & Bodhisatvas, etc) - enabled the followers of
one faith to legitimately venerate the other faith's Divine Beings as
alternative manifestations of their own. This popular synthesis - -
prospered right up until the early years of the Meiji Era (1868 -1912),
when the doctrine of Ryobu Shinto/Honji Suijaku was annulled, and the
Shugendo tradition of the Yamabushi was proscribed by the new regime as
being an unacceptable hybrid."
r
robek
Joe Steve Swick III wrote:
> philosophical framework for the claim that he is the True Buddha; however, I
> am not aware of any place in which he directly states this. Rather, the term
> is applied to him by Nikko Shonin and his followers.
>
> Cheers,
> JSW
Nikko no, followers yes. This really does not happen until 1380, and
does not blossom until 1480. To say: "Nichiren himself established the
philosophical framework for the claim that he is the True Buddha"
r
robek
impossible to understand the Gosho without a basic grasp of this. Ryobu
Shinto means 'Dual Shinto' and is a fusion of Shinto and
Shingon/Mikkyo.
The Ryobu Shinto concept of 'Honji Suijaku' is similar to the more
general concept of 'Shinbutsu Shugo'. The latter postulates that
Buddhist divinities maninfest in forms that someone can understand. For
eample, some in the West say that Avalokitesvara/
Kanzeon manifests as Tara, mother of all Buddhas; who mainfests as
Mary/Maria, mother of g-d. Or Jesus is seen as a manifestation of
Samantabhadra/Fugen. Those are examples of Shinbutsu Shugo.
As Joe explained:
...the Buddist term "suijakushin" means "provisional form." It refers
to a Buddha or Bodhisattva taking the temporary form of a saint or god,
for the purpose of saving mankind. The term "honjishin" means "true
form/identity." The phrase "honji suijaku" refers specifically to the
true form or identity of a Buddha or Bodhisattva who has taken a
provisional form (such as that of a Shinto god) for the purpose of
saving mankind."
Ryobu Shinto/Honji Suijaku identifies specific Buddhist or Vedic
divinities with specific Shinto Kami. What one winds up with is a
hybrid or synctretic deity that has attributes of both the local kami
and the Original Buddhist Divinity.
This thought was very sophisticated. It began in the 8th C and matured
at the end of the Heiean Era. Then, during the Kamakura Era, it
devolved into Reverse Honji Suijaku. The Kami were seen as the
"honjishin" or "true form/identity"; while the actual Buddhas &
Bodhisattvas were viewed as the "suijakushin" or "provisional form."
It would be interesting to decipher, from the Gosho, how Nichiren
viewed this Shinto corruption of the Dharma. Also, how this relates to
the 'Nichiren as Honbutsu' deviation seems rather obvious, at least to
me.
It is difficult because Ryobu Shinto Honji Suijaku was banned and
harshly suppressed during the Meiji Era. I understand this even
included the destruction and alteration of temple & shrine records to
scrub any references.
r
Cody
"robek" <rrob...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:1125080448.5...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This is a topic I have alluded to several times. I think it is
> impossible to understand the Gosho without a basic grasp of this.
LOL! The priesthood studies for twenty years with priests who have studied
even longer and you are telling someone how to understand the Gosho?
What an ego!
Cody
Cody
Or more knowledge and studies than you will ever have.
Cody
Joe Steve Swick III
From this, at least, it would seem that Nichiren himself established the
philosophical framework for the claim that he is the True Buddha; however, I
am not aware of any place in which he directly states this. Rather, the term
is applied to him by Nikko Shonin and his followers.
___robek___
Nikko no, followers yes. This really does not happen until 1380, and does
not blossom until 1480.
----
You are correct. My apologies for not being more precise.
___robek___
To say: "Nichiren himself established the philosophical framework for the
claim that he is the True Buddha" requires a selective and rather convoluted
reading.
-----
Rather, it is one possible logical extension of Nichiren's own teachings on
the Juryo Chapter, especially as those teachings are found in the Ongi
Kuden. I'm not a Buddhist, so I have no vested interest in this teaching,
either way, and no need to read selectively or to wrangle meanings.
I'm aware that Nichiren himself accepted as gifts images of Shakyamuni, that
he described himself as the Votary of the Lotus Sutra and the Bodhisattva
Jogyo, and did and said other things that could be seen as contradicting the
idea that he is the True Buddha. I also didn't say that this is the only
possible way to read the passages I presented. However, I don't believe I've
been dishonest in saying that Nichiren himself laid the philosophical
foundation for this teaching.
Cheers,
JSW
robek
Joe Steve Swick III wrote:
I agree it is there. It is even moreso there in other even more cryptic
writings that are actually authenticated. I should have neen more
clear. It is those I meant require a convoluted reading. If you have
time, check out the English Honmon Shoshu Page. I think there you will
see what Taisekiji taught before the purging of Ryobu Shinto/Honji
Suijaku elements during the Meiji Era. http://honmonshoshu.fujimon.org/
The Ongi Kuden, IMCO, is boiler plate Hongaku non-dual rhetoric. We
might as well say Dogen was the True Buddha. Or Abustsubo, or Shijo
Kingo, or Cody :). IMO, Nichiren as True Buddha is a Japanese Nativist
spin on Hongaku and Ryobu Shinto.
r
robek
You will never earn a dime by counting your neighbor's wealth, even if
you do so day and night.
r
Cody
Huh? More patronizing guidance? Let's see, you think you rate the same as
priests who have studied the Daishonin's Buddhism since they were twelve?
You think because you "think for yourself" that you shouldn't seek out their
wisdom and knowledge? All you are doing on this board is a repeat of what
Bruce Maltz did and you see how frequently he posts here now. You're not
even a new show but a pathetic rerun.
Cody
robek
All we need is the Daimoku to tap our own insight. At the moment of
death, we can not ask for another's wisdom to guide us. Well, you can
if you wish. :)Ask Jesus and he might come? As for Priests, I would
love to sit down and discuss Dharma with them. The two I got to know
said I/we had it all {Faith & Practice}within me/us to tap the power of
the Buddha & Dharma.
with metta,
robin
Cody
Did I say one could?
> Well, you can
> if you wish. :)Ask Jesus and he might come?
How patronizingly sarcastic of you.
> As for Priests, I would
> love to sit down and discuss Dharma with them. The two I got to know
> said I/we had it all {Faith & Practice}within me/us to tap the power of
> the Buddha & Dharma.
>
> with metta,
>
> robin
You do have a reading comprehension problem. I hope you get over it.
Cody
dere...@netscape.net
marcinmd wrote:
How is abandoning Buddhism in favour of Christianity "defending the
Lotus Sutra"?
Marc Strumpf, ARBN 2/26/04:
"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth,
marcinmd
was not limited to Taisekiji. <<<
Oh certainly.... This was a very widespread idea and I believe it was
connected to emerging xenophobia in Japan... However, this is the
context in which you must put Taisekiji' discarding of Nichiren's core
belief in the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni
(Too Indian) and their innovation of Nichiren as the "Real" ( read
"Japanese") Eternal Buddha. They were well within the intellectual mind
set of reversing Honge Suijaku.
You are speaking of Ryobu
Shinto teachings equating Kami with specific deities.
I understand that. I could not find the term you used. <<
It's a pretty well known term. Try "Hongi Suijaku".. I'll google around
and post some links. The term is easily found in Buddhist dictionaries
as well.
>>>Anaterasu Omikami was seen as a manifestation of Dainichi.
Ryobu Shinto views Dainichi as the primordial Buddha.
In reverse 'Honge Suijaku' Amaterasu becomes the
True Buddha. Some of what Nichiren wrote could
be read in a way that he saw himself as an incarnation
of Amaterasu. <<
Mainstream Nichiren Buddhist scholarship holds that he saw himself as
the earthly manifestation of Jogyo Bosatsu. In fact, his early
generation followers (including NIkko) were pretty keen to declare him
as such. The idea to reverse Honge Suijaku came long after Nichiren's
lifetime.
There is no doubt some of his followers read it that way.
I do not think was just a sales pitch. They actually
believed it. When he refuted it, they thought he was
just being humble.<<
Yes, except the issue was over his spiritual identification as Jogyo...
I will try to find for you an excellent essay by the Buddhist School HG
Lamont on the Spiritual Identity of Nichiren.
That non-Japanese buy this amazes
me. Most Japanese have figured out that they are
not the divine race. <<
>>The Americans in SGI and NST have been badly manipulated..IMHO
Of course, most Hokkeko members do not even realize
the source of this deviant teaching. And it was
likely not even Taisekiji that started it. One
of Nichizon's successors in Kyoto was the one of
the first to articulate it, I think. <<
Hmmmmm..... You should go to the Kempon Hokke Shu web page and ask that
question on their list serve. Mr. Lamont will likely answer you there.
He would know the exact facts of the matter.
Top 10 reasons SGI clings to Nichiren as True Buddha
What evidence is there to support the Nichiren & Honmon
Shoshu position; that Nichiren is the True or Original
Buddha? There is none. But there are objections within
SGI to changing the official stance. So what are the
objections to viewing Shakyamuni of the Juryo Chapter
as the True Buddha, and Nichiren as Jogyo; his messenger
for Mappo?
Top 10 reasons why SGI clings to Nichiren as True Buddha:
# 10. It would be an admission Nichiren Shu Minobu
Sect is right on this.
Continue reading "Top 10 reasons SGI clings to
Nichiren as True Buddha"
http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/000636.html#more
<<
The Nichiren Buddhist Universe is not divided up between Minobu and
SGI/NST. There are about 36 Nichiren Buddhist sects. Several of them
far larger than NST. Only SGI/NST holds to the Nichiren as Buddha
heresy. None of the more authentic sects go there. It's a totally made
up new doctrine that was only used as a sales ploy by a moribund
Taisekiji. It has no firm basis in the teachings of Nichiren (nor Nikko
btw)
marcinmd
"honge no bosatsu"? <<
I dont see a big disagreement on the point you just made. Honge (Hongi)
Suijaku is the idea that the local Kami were trickle down
manifestations of the Buddhist Gods. Due to Japanese Xenophobia, it no
longer fit the Japanese mind-set and they began thinking of the local
Kami as superior and the Buddhist Gods as a trickle down of them. I
have the term correct.
>>>>It is an extension of this, yes. While I am not aware of Nichiren ever
stating that HE was the True Buddha in a unique way, he DID say, in the
*Shoho Jisso Sho* (WND "The True Aspect of All Phenomena," MWND "The
True
Entity of Life"), that "a common mortal is an entity of the three
bodies,
and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a
provisional Buddha." (WND 384a; see also MWND 90 para 2). And,
according to
the Ongi Kuden,<<<
Unfortunately both the Shoho Jisso Sho and the Ongi Kuden are not
authentic to Nichiren Daishonin. I realize that this is very
challanging and a surprise to people in the SGI/NST milieu but the
issue of forgeries in the corpus of Nichiren Buddhist writings is
pretty well developed and the verdict is that both of those Gosho are
forgeries.
To be very brief, The SGI and NST paradigm is not at all found in the
authentic teachings of Nichiren. AT best they can only be inferred (as
you rightly pointed out) but only by accepting a very unique set of
Gosho which hump the Medieval Tendai doctrine of "Hongaku Shiso"..
This is the idea (very basically) of "Everyone is a Buddha
INHERENTLY"... It can only be found in this unique set of Gosho's NONE
of which has ever been authenticated. The Ongi Kuden and Shoho Jisso
are two such in this dubious set of writings.They were not really
written by Nichiren and dont reflect his World View..
If you do buy into Hongaku Shiso, then everyone is already a Buddha and
simply needs to "realize" this preexisting fact. Nichiren, is the
best practitioner among us. Therefore, he must be a Buddha. If the best
practitioner cant "realize' his Buddhahood, then what hope is there for
anyone else, the logic goes.
The World View of NST and SGI is not Nichiren's. It is derived from
their apostasy to the Medieval Tendai Shu and has been propped up by
documents that artificially graft this foreign point of view onto the
chanting Daimoku.
For an extensive analysis of the Ongi Kuden's authenticity, read the
dissertation of Dr. Jackie Stone who is a well known Nichiren Buddhist
scholar. I can find the 800 number to order it if you want me to.
robek
serious errors.
marcinmd wrote:
> I agree with you to an extent. But this type of thinking
> was not limited to Taisekiji. <<<
robek:
> Oh certainly.... This was a very widespread idea and I believe it was
> connected to emerging xenophobia in Japan... However, this is the
> context in which you must put Taisekiji' discarding of Nichiren's core
> belief in the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni
> (Too Indian) and their innovation of Nichiren as the "Real" ( read
> "Japanese") Eternal Buddha. They were well within the intellectual mind
> set of reversing Honge Suijaku.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Agreed. But reverese Ryobu Shinto certainly dates to the Kamakura Era,
when it was an esoteric doctrine taught at the Hachiman Shrine-Temple.
Few broke the samaya in those days. As a tangential issue, Nichiren
taught the Threefold Contemplation, as did Honen, but did not call it
that.
robek:
> You are speaking of Ryobu Shinto teachings equating Kami with specific >deities. I understand that. I could not find the term you used. <<
`````````````````````````````
> It's a pretty well known term. Try "Hongi Suijaku".. I'll google around
> and post some links. The term is easily found in Buddhist dictionaries
> as well.
``````````````````````````````````
You 'mispelled' the term. I already found it.
robek:
> >>>Anaterasu Omikami was seen as a manifestation of Dainichi.
> Ryobu Shinto views Dainichi as the primordial Buddha.
> In reverse 'Honge Suijaku' Amaterasu becomes the
> True Buddha. Some of what Nichiren wrote could
> be read in a way that he saw himself as an incarnation
> of Amaterasu. <<
``````````````````````
> Mainstream Nichiren Buddhist scholarship holds that he saw himself as
> the earthly manifestation of Jogyo Bosatsu. In fact, his early
> generation followers (including NIkko) were pretty keen to declare him
> as such. The idea to reverse Honge Suijaku came long after Nichiren's
> lifetime.
```````````
Shinbutsu Shugo is very old, & Ryobu Shinto/Honji Suijaku dates to the
9th Century. The reversal of Ryobu Shinto/Honji Suijaku begins with
Yoritomo Minamoto. Ot was later adopted by the Yamabushi.
robek:
> There is no doubt some of his followers read it that way.
> I do not think was just a sales pitch. They actually
> believed it. When he refuted it, they thought he was
> just being humble.<<
>
> Yes, except the issue was over his spiritual identification as Jogyo...
> I will try to find for you an excellent essay by the Buddhist School HG
> Lamont on the Spiritual Identity of Nichiren.
`````````````````````````````````````
I have read it: I pretty much agree.
>
> Top 10 reasons why SGI clings to Nichiren as True Buddha:
>
>
> # 10. It would be an admission Nichiren Shu Minobu
> Sect is right on this.
> Continue reading "Top 10 reasons SGI clings to
> Nichiren as True Buddha"
> http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/000636.html#more
> <<
>
>
> The Nichiren Buddhist Universe is not divided up between Minobu and
> SGI/NST. There are about 36 Nichiren Buddhist sects. Several of them
> far larger than NST. Only SGI/NST holds to the Nichiren as Buddha
> heresy. None of the more authentic sects go there. It's a totally made
> up new doctrine that was only used as a sales ploy by a moribund
> Taisekiji. It has no firm basis in the teachings of Nichiren (nor Nikko
> btw)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Top Ten Piece is Sarcasm
r
robek
marcinmd wrote:
>
>
> Unfortunately both the Shoho Jisso Sho and the Ongi Kuden are not
> authentic to Nichiren Daishonin.
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/gosho.html
Shoho Jisso Sho is disputed, but only on hongaku contect. It is not a
proven forgery. Nichiren Shu accepts it -- I think?
Parts of the Ongi Kuden might date to Nichiren's lectures. Oral
traditions are hardly ever reliable except as oral traditions.
You are right, neither of these is authenticated.
r
marcinmd
serious errors. <<
Really? I am surprised. His credentials are impeccable....
I bet if you went one on one with him, you would change your opinion.
marcinmd
taught the Threefold Contemplation, <<
Only in his very very early career..The whole point of Daimoku centered
practice was to replace such methods which he thought were too hard for
people in Mappo. For a short while he thought that lay-people could
chant Daimoku (an easy practice) and the Priests could engage in the
more complicated practices, but he absolutely abandoned that notion and
ended up with a doctrine of "Daimoku only" for everyone as the sole
path to enlightenment.
robek
I agree and disagree. Kanjin is a meditation. It may not be required,
but is useful. By threefold contemplation I mean Mudra, Mantra, &
Mandala.
Mudra = Namaskara {Gassho}
Mantra = the Odaimoku
Mandala = The Dai Mandara
r
Joe Steve Swick III
Marc, is it possible that you've mixed the phrases "honji suijaku" and
"honge no bosatsu"? <<
___marcinmd___
I dont see a big disagreement on the point you just made.
----
The point is that "honge" and "honji" are very different words in Japanese;
sort of like the difference between the words "lies" and "rice" in English.
I gave the long explanation to make sure we were actually talking about the
same thing. If you agree with the definition I provided, then you absolutely
mean HONJI Suijaku.
___marcinmd___
Honge (Hongi) Suijaku is the idea that the local Kami were trickle down
manifestations of the Buddhist Gods.
----
That is incorrect. You are describing HONJI Suijaku, not Honge or Hongi
Suijaku. A simple google search will demonstrate my point. Sorry for being
such a pedant.
___marcinmd___
The World View of NST and SGI is not Nichiren's. It is derived from their
apostasy to the Medieval Tendai Shu and has been propped up by documents
that artificially graft this foreign point of view onto the chanting
Daimoku.
----
Fascinating. Thank you. I'm looking forward to reading Dr. Stone, as you
have suggested.
Kindest,
Joe Swick
Cody
>
> marcinmd wrote:
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately both the Shoho Jisso Sho and the Ongi Kuden are not
>> authentic to Nichiren Daishonin.
>
>
>
> proven forgery. Nichiren Shu accepts it -- I think?
>
> Parts of the Ongi Kuden might date to Nichiren's lectures. Oral
> traditions are hardly ever reliable except as oral traditions.
>
> You are right, neither of these is authenticated.
>
> r
You mean they aren't authenticated by the heretical sects. Wow, I am
impressed!
Carry on with your mental masturbation, Robin.
Cody
Thomas Van Woezik
When you start to ask stupid questions at your moment of death about
Buddhism .you will be to late ! You better
hurry-up yourself a bit !
DdD.
marcinmd
proven forgery. Nichiren Shu accepts it -- I think? <<<
Sects will sometimes use popular Gosho for whatever they are worth. But
no scholar in the Nichiren Shu would ever tell you it's authentic. It
is believed to have had three separate author. The first paragraph or
so may be an authentic fragment. The rest was written by Hongaku
oriented persons who may have wanted to kosher their idea's.
No Hongaku text has ever been authenticated. Not a single one. When you
read a Hongaku oriented text, you know that it has not been
authenticated. None has... So that is pretty strong evidence. Nichiren
has one World View in his totally authenticated texts but in a unique
set of texts he teaches a totally different and opposing World View.
Both cant be right. They are metaphysically at odds.. Do you side with
the point of view found in his core and unimpeachable treatises or do
you side with a World View only found in dubious Gosho....
Naturally Nichiren Shoshu has chosen the latter because Hongaku
theology allows for innovation and innovation is what Taisekiji has
always been up for.
Parts of the Ongi Kuden might date to Nichiren's lectures. Oral
traditions are hardly ever reliable except as oral traditions. <<<
Jackie Stone goes through the Ongi Kuden almost line for line. There is
no chance that they reflect Nichiren's ideas. He did leave his
annotated Lotus Sutra with all his notes on the Lotus Sutra. We also
have many of his lecture notes... Once again, the Ongi Kuden humps a
Hongaku World View but in his authentic teachings, he doesn't. Go
figure
The only way Nichiren Shoshu could be a good reflection of Nichiren's
teachings would be if he were totally dishonest.
marcinmd
studied even longer <<
Here is a list of what courses they take:
1. Cost accounting
2. Tax implications of living on donations
3. Small Cap investing: is it for you?
4. Keeping the books secret: Do's and don'ts
5. Conversational English (canceled for lack of interest)
6. How do beat a polygraph: You can do it !!!
7. The Life of Ikeda: Know your enemy
8. Fifty Questions about Buddhism = One hundred excuses
9. Story telling
10. History of Nichiren Buddhism+ refresher on polygraphs
marcinmd
studied even longer <<
Here is a list of what courses they take:
Cody
"marcinmd" <marc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1126116571.6...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You really think you're being cute and clever, don't you?
Cody
>
Cody
Does three times constitute spam in your book?
Cody
>
dere...@netscape.net
Cody wrote:
> You really think you're being cute and clever, don't you?
Here's what Marc Strumpf studies:
"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made;
who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven and was
incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and made man, and was
crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried,
and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and
ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And
he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead,
whose kingdom shall have no end.
"And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who
proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with, the Father and the
Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets.
And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge
one baptism for the remission of sins. And I look for the resurrection
of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." Marc Strumpf,
ARBN 2/26/04
---
Derek Juhl
robek
Yeah, So?
r
dere...@netscape.net
robek wrote:
> Yeah, So?
So his posts are hypocrital at best.
Derek Juhl
robek
I see a lot of wisdom in GoT.
By the principle of Shinbutsu Shugo; Maria is an emanation of Arya Tara
and Jesus is an emanation of Samantabhadra.
r
dere...@netscape.net
robek wrote:
> I see a lot of wisdom in GoT.
>
> By the principle of Shinbutsu Shugo; Maria is an emanation of Arya Tara
> and Jesus is an emanation of Samantabhadra.
"To mix other practices with this Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is a grave error.
A lamp will be useless after the sun rises. How can dewdrops be
beneficial once the rain falls? Should one feed a newborn baby with
anything other than its mother's milk? Good medicine works by itself;
there is no need to add other medicine." Nichiren Daishonin, Teaching
for the Latter Day Gosho
"Or we may be the kind of practitioners of the Lotus Sutra whose mouths
are reciting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo one moment, but Namu Amida Butsu the
next. This is like mixing filth with one's rice, or putting sand or
pebbles in it. This is what the Lotus Sutra is warning against when it
says: 'Desiring only to accept and embrace the sutra of the great
vehicle and not accepting a single verse of the other sutras...' The
learned authorities in the world today suppose that there is no harm in
mixing extraneous practices with the practice of the Lotus Sutra, and
I, Nichiren, was once of that opinion myself. But the passage from the
sutra [that I have just quoted] does not permit such a view." Nichiren
Daishonin, Letter to Akimoto Gosho
Derek Juhl
Cody
>
> dere...@netscape.net wrote:
>> robek wrote:
>>
>> > Yeah, So?
>>
>> So his posts are hypocrital at best.
>>
>> Derek Juhl
> ````````````````````````````````
> I see a lot of wisdom in GoT.
"GoT"?
>
> By the principle of Shinbutsu Shugo; Maria is an emanation of Arya Tara
> and Jesus is an emanation of Samantabhadra.
>
> r
And God fucking Mary and giving Joseph a bastard child is an emanation of
what?
Cody
robek
http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel-thomas-Nancy_Johnson.htm
robek
Jesus said:
He who uncovers
The significance of these words
Shall not taste death.
2.)
Let him who seeks,
Not cease from his search
until he finds.
When he finds he will be bewildered,
And when bewildered,
He will wonder, and reign over the All.
3.)
If your guides claim
that the kingdom is in the sky,
The birds of the sky will be there before you.
If they see it is in the sea,
The fishes of the sea will be there before you.
The kingdom is within you and without you.
When you know yourselves, you will be known.
Then you shall know that you are
Sons of the Living Father.
But if you do not know yourselves
You are in poverty, and you are poverty.
4.)
An old man heavy in years,
Will not hesitate
To ask a baby seven days old,
About the Place of Life.
And he shall live, for many
Who are first shall be last,
United within the Single One.
5.)
Jesus said:
Know what is before you.
That which is hidden will be revealed.
6.)
His disciples asked him:
Do you want us to fast?
How should we pray
and distribute alms?
What rules should we observe in eating?
Jesus replied:
Do not lie.
Do not do what you dislike,
For all is revealed before heaven.
Everything hidden will be revealed.
Nothing covered will remain undiscovered.
7.)
Blessed is the lion
Eaten by a man, so that
it becomes a man.
Profane is the man
eaten by a lion
so that he becomes a lion.
Cody
Cody
"robek" <rrob...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:1126173890.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Joe Steve Swick III
And God fucking Mary and giving Joseph a bastard child is an emanation of
what?
Well, the words are an emanation of your own heart, Cody. They demonstrate a
profound lack of respect for your fellowman, as reflected in his own deeply
held religious beliefs. What some of you NST folks here on ARBN haven't
learned is that such disrespect of a religious tradition is disrespect for
the individual who holds such beliefs close to the heart.
Some folks take offense at the slightest thing. Others --icchantika at
heart-- take great pleasure in giving offense unnecessarily. I suggest that
there are other ways of indicating your conviction that a belief is
incorrect, besides the kind of gutter-language you use here, which is
entirely inappropriate in any religious forum.
Now, you are obviously well-informed NS believer, and I can enjoy and
appreciate many of the opinions and insights you provide here. What I most
certainly CANNOT appreciate is your apparent need to use coarse and
belittling language to those who disagree with you. Your discussion above is
every bit as offensive as Charles Johnson's nonsense about the NST crane
emblem.
No amount of discussion about the power of the Gohonzon to "raise one's life
condition" can overcome such low and vulgar speech from the same individual.
Honestly, it makes it exceedingly hard to believe what you say.
Best,
Joe Swick
Joe Steve Swick III
If your guides claim
that the kingdom is in the sky,
The birds of the sky will be there before you.
If they see it is in the sea,
The fishes of the sea will be there before you.
The kingdom is within you and without you.
When you know yourselves, you will be known.
Then you shall know that you are
Sons of the Living Father.
But if you do not know yourselves
You are in poverty, and you are poverty.
In other words, "don't look to anything outside yourself."
That Jesus was one smart fella. LOL.
Great quotes from the GoT, Robin. Thanks.
JSW
Cody
"Joe Steve Swick III" <joes...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:UH2Ue.7941$Wd7...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I can be educated or crass, depending on the situation. I tell it like I see
it and Christianity's history is filled with a lot more gruesome things than
my "gutter" vernacular. Putting up a high moral ideal as the standard to
judge a person will always lead to disapointment.
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticise people's vernacular, take a
gander at some of your "educated" quips from David Cole, aka Yelps, aka, DC:
"my experimentation with Psychedelics is the 60's was a
profound thing. Your butt-fucking into viral-bunghole colonies was serious
abuse."
Dave Cole July 2002
"YOU IMBECILES FROM HELL ARE SO STUPID AND BRAINWASHED AND IGNORANT YOU CANT
SEE WHAT
IS SO FUCKING OBVIOUS THAT IF IT WERE ANY MORE OBVIOUS YOU YOURSELF WOULD
HAVE
THEIR GISM FORCED INTO ALL YOUR OWN ORIFICES!"
David Cole, Aug 2002
"You imbeciles are all arguing over which one gets your dick in the ass"
David Cole, August 2002
"receptivity is the key to propagation, Now use your head. How do you
increase
receptivity with these people who are all blocked and who's minds are like
dried cement?
There must be a powerful disruptive force and unlike Japan I hope this
doesn't have to
happen with event like the Kanto Earthquake or having atomic bombs dropped
in the cities."
David Cole, July 2002
"Furthermore the content of the Mahayana, especially the Lotus
Sutra was distinctly and directly, Upanishadic in nature.
One thing for sure is they were all on drugs."
David Cole, July 2002
"What part of : "dependent extinction of all phenomena," do you not
understand? the part where you get erect?"
David Cole July 2002
"I spent many decades understanding and integrating this
understanding and it is based on my OWN experience of awakening which is the
primordial experience---the very basis of religion in everyone's life. My
experience is the same as that of Gautama or Nichiren or Tien-t'ai or
Nagarjuna or a number of people in other religions or throughout history who
experienced the same thing."
Copyright © David Cole 2002
" I exaggeratingthe pissingnow as anyone with any sense can see, inan
attempttoshow you and Michaelthat this passive aggressive, non-buddhist
bullshit has to stop." [sic]
Copyright © David Cole 2002
"I tell the truth to Paul in E-mail, that the Uk and LA Kots are gay and
that an
inordinate amount of gays left SGI and went to NST temple or to Nichiren
Shu"
Copyright © David Cole 2002
"The Nips still haven't apologized for the war to the US and or the Rape of
Nanking. They need their fairy butts kicked too."
David Cole 2002
"Look at your UK group Funny most every Koto is a
fag--in US too---just like Nichiren Shu."
Copyright © David Cole 2002
"I am distressed like the Daishonin was distressed
about the sick behavior of humankind. I am as solid as a rock."
David Cole 2002
"This faggot version of true buddhism is history, the Daishonin would kick
your fairy little asses and the gakkai as well.... and the Priesthood is
corrupted into habits and monstrous passivity.."
David Cole 2002
"Of course this is the typical hypocritical crap coming from human beings
that are just dumb. Sorry boys, maybe you and Una should all have an orgy
at taisekiji.......bring Reggie to referee."
David Cole 2002
"I think you need a stiff stick inserted deeply into your ass and wiggled
around to break up the congestion in there."
David Cole 2002
"I never cheated on either of my wifes.
Althoug As I said before there were some episodes years ago where a wife
brought a female into our bed"
David Cole 2002
"No one will follow wimps and people with psychological
problems and weird perverse habits and behaviors based in unresolved
childhood conflicts and altar--boy consciousness. Tell me
butt-fucking and perversity is cool in our buddhism."
David Cole 2002
"Slippery but transparent. i never suggested you held his cock while he got
his blow job"
Copyright © David Cole 2002
"Oh Craig, don't make it bad
Buy a hooker and get your raa-oocks off.
Remember to let her suck on your dick"
"Don't carry the lie upon your scrotum
Remember, they spit out that cum
in a container and later insert it."
David Cole 2002
"Yes I had a few threesomes in my day"
David Cole 2002
Cody
Joe Steve Swick III
"Cody" <nos...@nospam.comedu> wrote in message
news:MR3Ue.95866$US.6...@news.ono.com...
I can be educated or crass, depending on the situation. I tell it like I see
it and Christianity's history is filled with a lot more gruesome things than
my "gutter" vernacular.
This isn't about "gruesome things" in Christianity. It is about language
which is offensive and shows a fundamental lack of respect for individuals
who hold to religious beliefs at variance with your own. I will share with
you my own philosophy on this:
unrepentant vulgarity = no reason to continue any kind of discussion with me
I would expect that the folks I speak with -- especially folks who would
like me to take their religious opinions seriously-- are first and foremost
respectful of MY OWN opinions. This expectation is entirely uncomplicated,
completely reasonable, and utterly fair. I'm guessing a good 99.99% of folks
you speak with have a similar expectation, no matter their particular
background.
___Cody___
Putting up a high moral ideal as the standard to judge a person will always
lead to disapointment.
----
I don't have high moral ideals as a standard by which to judge people, Cody.
Rather, I have high expectations of the individuals with whom I interact.
The entire emphasis is different. Rather than going around feeling
judgmental, I prefer to have faith in the inherent good nature of human
beings -- and in their fundamental ability to meet and surpass my
expectations. I have faith that *because* of that inherent good nature, I am
more likely to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed. My opinions on
this matter might be totally untrue, but I prefer to view others this way,
because it meets my view of the world. If Buddhahood is all a matter of the
mind, then I prefer to direct my thoughts in this positive way.
___Cody___
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticise people's vernacular, take a
gander at some of your "educated" quips from David Cole, aka Yelps, aka, DC
-----
"Collusion" describes the act of justifying one's bad behavior based upon
the bad behavior of others. This leads to a downward spiral of worsening
behavior, and irrational self-justification, worsening behavior, irrational
self-justification, worsening behavior, irrational self-justification....
and on and on it goes, in an endless chain of negative causes. I know this
by my own experience.
DC has not directed those kinds of negative remarks at me. Should he do so,
I'd plonk him. Life is too short for nonsense from any quarter. I'm here for
intelligent, respectful discussion of Buddhism. I'll continue to engage
those who wish to participate in the same, and to ignore those who do not.
Kindest,
Joe Swick
robek
1.)
Jesus said:
He who uncovers
The significance of these words
Shall not taste death.
He seems to be talking about the "deathless" state of nirvana.
"Jesus said: He who uncovers The significance of these words Shall not
taste death. ... Know what is before you. That which is hidden will be
revealed. ... This Heaven shall pass away and that above shall pass
away. The dead no longer live. The living no longer die. ... When you
were one You were made two, but when you are two, what are you going to
do? ... I shall give you what no eye has seen, No ear heard, no hand
touched nor any heart received." -- from The Gospel of Thomas as
Translated by Nancy Johnson
robek
Cody wrote:
> "
>
> I can be educated or crass, depending on the situation. I tell it like I see
> it and Christianity's history is filled with a lot more gruesome things than
> my "gutter" vernacular.
As recounted in The Tale of the Heike, the militant monks of Kofukuji
sided with Prince Takakura against the Taira. In the year 1180, clan
chieftan Taira Kiyomori sent an emissary to negotiate with the monks,
who promptly seized 60 of his men, decapitated them, and hung their
heads in rows beside Sarusawa pond. This outrage lead directly to the
burning of Nara.
Red Beard the Pirate
Well, aren't you the saint? Might as well plonk me now because I will never
even try to meet your high moral standards.
Cody
Joe Steve Swick III
Well, aren't you the saint? Might as well plonk me now because I will never
even try to meet your high moral standards.
Expecting common courtesy is hardly a "high moral standard." That is why
they call it a COMMON courtesy. I encourage you to rethink your approach,
Cody.
JSW
Joe Steve Swick III
I can be educated or crass, depending on the situation. I tell it like I see
it and Christianity's history is filled with a lot more gruesome things than
my "gutter" vernacular.
___ROBEK___
As recounted in The Tale of the Heike, the militant monks of Kofukuji sided
with Prince Takakura against the Taira. In the year 1180, clan chieftan
Taira Kiyomori sent an emissary to negotiate with the monks, who promptly
seized 60 of his men, decapitated them, and hung their heads in rows beside
Sarusawa pond. This outrage lead directly to the burning of Nara.
----
Indeed it did. LOL.
JSW
Cody
I encourage you to go fuck yourself and the high moral horse you came in
with.
Cody
Yelps
his newsreader--he does that every coupkle days for the past year or two,
then a few days ago he puts my email address that I use in my newsreader
into his own so if I plonk himslef I plonk myslef so I had to block the name
Cody---So what does he do? He creates Red Beard the Pirate which I then
plonked, so it is all a game with him.
Cody cannot tell the differnce between satire of ARBN and his viciousness.
dc
Cody
"Yelps" <birdsn...@worldya.net> wrote
Cody cannot tell the differnce between satire of ARBN and his viciousness.
dc
You, sir, are a coward and a liar. You haven't the balls to go up against
me.
Some of your lies about me:
You say I have been homeless. I have never been homeless.
You say I am running away from my karma, yet you run away from a discussion
about that.
You say I have eaten out of garbage bins. I have never eaten out of garbage
bins.
You say I stopped practising. I have never stopped practising and hold
meetings at my home once a week.
So, you, sir, are a coward and a liar.
Cody
Joe Steve Swick III
Well, aren't you the saint? Might as well plonk me now because I will never
even try to meet your high moral standards.
___JSW___
Expecting common courtesy is hardly a "high moral standard." That is why
they call it a COMMON courtesy. I encourage you to rethink your approach,
Cody.
___Cody___
I encourage you to go fuck yourself and the high moral horse you came in
with.
----
Manifesting the virtues of a true Bodhisattva of the Earth today, I see.
LOL.
JSW
Joe Steve Swick III
Cody cannot tell the differnce between satire of ARBN and his viciousness.
Yes. His remarks do sometimes seem vicious and meanspirited. I have little
patience for that.
JSW
Joe Steve Swick III
You say I stopped practising. I have never stopped practising and hold
meetings at my home once a week.
Do you share with those who come to your home, such golden words of
encouragement as:
"I encourage you to go fuck yourself and the high moral horse you came in
with" -- Cody AKA Red Beard, ARBN, Friday, September 09, 2005 10:08 AM
Just curious. LOL.
JSW
Cody
Does the F word offend you, kind sir?
Cody
Reginald Carpenter
******************************************************
Re: What Nichiren Shoshu Doesn't Tell It's Members
Group: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren
Date: Tue, Sep 6, 2005, 7:50am (CDT-2)
From: Dantoi...@webtv.net (Thomas Van Woezik)
Hello Robek;
When you start to ask stupid questions at your moment of death about
Buddhism, you will be too late ! You better hurry-up yourself a bit !
DdD.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, "Double D"! : - ) Re. your comments, "Sho' You Right"! sez
Barry White (R.I.P) LOL.
Because, when the Lord Buddha's chief executioner is about to whack off
his head as a punishment for some, NOT all, of his many NaSTy - Nichiren
SLANDERous & TRAITORous crimes, then old "Robek", aka. "Robin," nka. the
birdman robot (robek) is probably going ask him a DUMB-ass question like
this, "Duh, is that really a Hattori Hanzo sword, Lord Ema?", as his
last words! ROTFL
******************************************************
<<< Stone Eagle >>>
Airborne in Cyberspace*