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What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru
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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax  
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 More options Sep 8, 4:08 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
From: Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:08:23 +0100
Local: Tues, Sep 8 2009 4:08 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> On Sep 8, 8:48 am, Doug Freyburger <dfrey...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> In the steps the practitioner asks for help to
>> remove the cravings or obsession.  Exactly how is
>> asking for help to remove fetters in conflict with
>> Asatru again?

> AA explictly assumes that a person CANNOT help themselves, that they
> are "powerless." This is, of course, bullshit. I find bullshit to be
> at odds with Asatru.

> To my mind, the first three steps are weak-willed bullcrap.
> "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become
> unmanageable."

Well, at that stage it's pretty much a truism.

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff


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scottlowther@ix.netcom.co m  
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 More options Sep 8, 6:26 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
From: "scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com" <scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 15:26:21 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Sep 8 2009 6:26 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru
On Sep 8, 2:08 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Then is it your position that the only way for a drunk or druggie to
turn his life around is through the direct intervention of powerful
supernatural beings?

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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax  
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 More options Sep 8, 7:35 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
From: Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:35:33 +0100
Local: Tues, Sep 8 2009 7:35 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

Or aspects of his psyche that he normally cannot call upon.
Depends how you look at it.

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff


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scottlowther@ix.netcom.co m  
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 More options Sep 8, 8:24 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
From: "scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com" <scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:24:07 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Sep 8 2009 8:24 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru
On Sep 8, 5:35 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Ah, but that's not how its being sold, is it. If it were, they'd just
say *that.*  And in any event, if you are powerless, then no aspect of
your psyche will help. If some aspect of your psyche will help, you're
not powerless.

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Hetware  
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 More options Oct 9, 8:04 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
Followup-To: alt.religion.asatru
From: Hetware <n...@home.none>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:04:40 -0400
Local: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

Heidi Graw wrote:
>>but she is pretty, isn't she?

> Yes, she is.

I believe it's finally over.  I could say a lot of hurtful things about her.  
But I really do still care about her.  She is just too far gone for me to
accept.  

http://www.speakeasy.org/~hattons/bad-habit.jpg


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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax  
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 More options Oct 9, 8:22 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
From: Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 01:22:08 +0100
Local: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:22 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

Hetware wrote:
> Heidi Graw wrote:

>>> but she is pretty, isn't she?
>> Yes, she is.

> I believe it's finally over.  I could say a lot of hurtful things about her.  
> But I really do still care about her.  She is just too far gone for me to
> accept.  

> http://www.speakeasy.org/~hattons/bad-habit.jpg

Not bad looking.

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show


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Hetware  
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 More options Oct 9, 9:04 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
Followup-To: alt.religion.asatru
From: Hetware <n...@home.none>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:04:22 -0400
Local: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

> Hetware wrote:
>> Heidi Graw wrote:

>>>> but she is pretty, isn't she?
>>> Yes, she is.

>> I believe it's finally over.  I could say a lot of hurtful things about
>> her.
>> But I really do still care about her.  She is just too far gone for me to
>> accept.

>> http://www.speakeasy.org/~hattons/bad-habit.jpg

> Not bad looking.

She is also incredibly charming ... when she is sober ... which is rare.  
She has several degrees from American University, and has accomplished much
in her life.  Unfortunately, she has something lurking in her memories which
keeps her from facing the light of day.  

I miss her terribly. I wish I could help her.  I don't even know how to find
her right now.  She is hiding from everybody who cares about her.


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Heidi Graw  
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 More options Oct 9, 11:28 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
From: "Heidi Graw" <hg...@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 03:28:57 GMT
Local: Fri, Oct 9 2009 11:28 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

>"Hetware" <n...@home.none> wrote in message
>news:v62dnWNPDfgKQFLXnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@speakeasy.net...

(snip)

> Hetware wrote:
> I miss her terribly. I wish I could help her.  I don't even know how to
> find
> her right now.  She is hiding from everybody who cares about her.

<sigh>  What a tragic story!

Why can't you just simply find a nice young woman
who knows how to bake cookies and knit baby booties?

Oh nevermind!  They don't make those kinds anymore!

Besides, you would probably find someone like that
really boring!   <chuckle>

Ah well...out of 3 billion or so females out there,
there's got to be one for Steven!  Arghhh...

...needle in the haystack...keep looking...

Take care,
Heidi


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Hetware  
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 More options Oct 12, 10:22 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
Followup-To: alt.religion.asatru
From: Hetware <n...@home.none>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:22:49 -0400
Local: Mon, Oct 12 2009 10:22 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

I changed my phone number so she can't call.  I suspect she will go into
shock tomorrow.  She is used to me being an immovable rock in a raging sea
of madness.   I have always been there for her, without fail.  I am not
unreachable - unless she is willing to risk the trip out to my apartment
which is well of her beaten path.  She does have a key.  If she uses it, I
will probably roll over and play dead.  She has me at her mercy.  She may
not know that, however.

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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax  
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 More options Oct 12, 11:06 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
From: Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:06:05 +0100
Local: Mon, Oct 12 2009 11:06 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

Unless she uses the Net.

FFF
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show


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Hetware  
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 More options Oct 14, 12:16 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
Followup-To: alt.religion.asatru
From: Hetware <n...@home.none>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:16:42 -0400
Local: Wed, Oct 14 2009 12:16 am
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

> Hetware wrote:
>> I changed my phone number so she can't call.  I suspect she will go into
>> shock tomorrow.  She is used to me being an immovable rock in a raging
>> sea
>> of madness.   I have always been there for her, without fail.  I am not
>> unreachable - unless she is willing to risk the trip out to my apartment
>> which is well of her beaten path.  She does have a key.  If she uses it,
>> I
>> will probably roll over and play dead.  She has me at her mercy.  She may
>> not know that, however.

> Unless she uses the Net.

> FFF
> Dirk

Well, she used to spend a lot of time online.  Written communication is a
strong point of hers.  Sadly, the vodka prevents her from having any
interest in using the Internet anymore.  

I really have to gain a greater sense of self-esteem vis-a-vis women.  That
much I am learning from this exchange.  When I have them at a distance, I do
quite well.  In her case, she got past my defenses because I was not looking
to gain something for myself.  I wanted to help her.  It was after I let her
get close that she got her hooks in.

Damn!  I hold plenty of strong cards.  I just never called her bluff.  We'll
see what happens not that I changed my cell phone #, and am working on
changing my land line.


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Heidi Graw  
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 More options Oct 14, 3:09 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
From: "Heidi Graw" <hg...@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:09:57 GMT
Local: Wed, Oct 14 2009 3:09 am
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

>"Hetware" <n...@home.none> wrote in message
>news:0PidnaVBUswwzUjXnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@speakeasy.net...

(snip)

> I wanted to help her.

Well, I'm sure you did your best.
And I'm glad you realized that you
have your limits.  The kind of help
she needs is way beyond the scope
of what you could provide.

I think you probably also learned
by now that she's going to have
to hit *her own* rock bottom which
will force her to make a decision
as to whether or not she wants
to live or die.  If she wants to live,
she knows the professional help
is out there.

But, this has got to be awfully
painful for you, too, to know you
have to stand aside while you watch
her go down this awful downward
spiral.  You cannot rescue her.
She has to do this on her own
for herself.  Sink or swim.  Only
she can decide what it is she
will ultimately end up doing.

You'll get through this painful
time, Steven. You've had worse
experiences which you managed
to conquer and you can do it again.

Take care,
Heidi


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Hetware  
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 More options Oct 15, 10:14 pm
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
Followup-To: alt.religion.asatru
From: Hetware <n...@home.none>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:14:26 -0400
Local: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 10:14 pm
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

Heidi Graw wrote:

>>"Hetware" <n...@home.none> wrote in message
>>news:0PidnaVBUswwzUjXnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> (snip)

>> I wanted to help her.

> Well, I'm sure you did your best.
> And I'm glad you realized that you
> have your limits.  The kind of help
> she needs is way beyond the scope
> of what you could provide.

I have always told her, and I will tell you, the help she need is very
simple.  It is called "love".  If she would just open her heart to it, she
would heal.

> I think you probably also learned
> by now that she's going to have
> to hit *her own* rock bottom which
> will force her to make a decision
> as to whether or not she wants
> to live or die.  If she wants to live,
> she knows the professional help
> is out there.

The one thing she seem to be in denial about is the fact that she is killing
herself.

> But, this has got to be awfully
> painful for you, too, to know you
> have to stand aside while you watch
> her go down this awful downward
> spiral.  You cannot rescue her.
> She has to do this on her own
> for herself.  Sink or swim.  Only
> she can decide what it is she
> will ultimately end up doing.

I don't completely buy into that idea.  People can help others.  My biggest
problem with her is that I have gotten too close.  I can't stand back and
let her go when I need to.  I need her.  I am addicted to her like she is
addicted to vodka.

> You'll get through this painful
> time, Steven. You've had worse
> experiences which you managed
> to conquer and you can do it again.

No woman has ever had this much power over me.  At least not for an extended
period.  Well, except for my mother.  Now, do you want the1-1
correspondences?  Cream cheese on beagles.  Cantaloupe melons.  Pickled hot
peppers.  It goes on and on.  Spooky.  

Damn! I miss that girl!  


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Heidi Graw  
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 More options Oct 16, 3:27 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru
From: "Heidi Graw" <hg...@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:27:46 GMT
Local: Fri, Oct 16 2009 3:27 am
Subject: Re: What would a "Higher Power" be in Asatru

>"Hetware" <n...@home.none> wrote in message
>news:6dCdnX9N94KeSkrXnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@speakeasy.net...

(snip)

> Steven wrote:
> I have always told her, and I will tell you, the help she need is very
> simple.  It is called "love".

Life is not some Beatles song...
"All you need is love...dum, de, dum, de, dum....
Love is all you need...blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

>If she would just open her heart to it, she
> would heal.

...and therein lays the crux:  *YOU* think
that *all she needs* to do is open up *her* heart.
It's not like she's got this "on" and "off" switch that
she can click at will.  If she could so easily
switch on love, do you really think she'd
be in such a mess as she is in currently?
You can't just tell her to turn it on.  She
has to want to.  She's not there yet.

>Steven wrote:
> The one thing she seem to be in denial about is
>the fact that she is killing  herself.

Maybe, maybe not.  She may be aware, but
doesn't care because she may not believe
she has something to live for.  Can you think
of some reasons as to why she should live?
Have you talked with her about this?  Should
she live simply because *you* say so?  Because
*you* want her to?  Maybe she thinks she has
nothing and no reason for going on living.
The vodka gives her an escape.  She can
escape from the reality around her.  So,
why does she want to escape?  Have you
asked her this question?

(snip)

>Steven wrote:
> People can help others.

Sure, but the thing is:  Does the
other person want the help?

*We* may think she needs help.
But, does *she* want the help?

>My biggest  problem with her is that I
>have gotten too close.  I can't stand back
>and > let her go when I need to.  I need her.
>I am addicted to her like she is addicted to
>vodka.

So, it's all about you, isn't it?  The thing is,
Steven, that *she* chose vodka over you.
The vodka is her fix, not you!

> Damn! I miss that girl!

She's got something you want.  But, you
have nothing she wants.  The vodka is more
important to her than you.  The challenge for
you is to try to convince her that you are
better than vodka.

From what I'm gathering, there is no reciprocal
addiction, ie. being addicted to each other.  You're
addicted to her, and she's addicted to vodka.
What sort of relationship can you expect to
grow from that?

...plenty of other fish in the ocean.  You could
always let her know that should she ever chose
you over vodka, you'll be waiting for her.  But,
while you're doing that, keep an eye out for
a gal where the addiction is mutual...a shared
experience.

I hope I didn't come across as too callous.
I just get really angry when I see alcoholism
robbing people of their lives, and their happiness.

Odin teaches *moderation.*  It's o.k. to get
the ocassional buzz, but don't end up addicted
to that crap!  Sigh...

Anyway, Steven, you need to keep your wits
about you.  Stay sober, excercise and eat
nutritious meals, even if you have to cook them
yourself.  You've got family, friends, nieces
and nephews.  They all need their Uncle Steve
around.  You have lots to live for.

Maybe you can convince your girl to find something
worth living for aside from that vodka.  Maybe a
transation of some sort could occur...weaning off
the vodka and finding a worthwhile life activity to
replace it.

I dunno...you know more about her than I.
You've probably tried all the trick out there.

<sigh>
Heidi


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