Is this thing on?
Scott Lowther
What, did Ragnarok happen and it didn't make the news?
--
Scott Lowther, Engineer
Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam
gibberish from the reply-to e-mail address
bowman
> Seems to have gotten damned quiet of late...
Too busy reading The Da Vinci COde. I even had to make a trip to the library
to find a print of The Last Supper to see what he was talking about.
Also a little Rydberg, Spengler, Titchenell, and other stuff, while litening
to Flogging Molly. It's winter in the north.
Heidi Graw
>"bowman" <bow...@montana.com> wrote in message
news:bqbbkg$203rsf$1...@ID-159066.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >Scott Lowther wrote:
>
> > Seems to have gotten damned quiet of late...
> bowman wrote:
> Too busy reading The Da Vinci COde. I even had to make a trip to the
library
> to find a print of The Last Supper to see what he was talking about.
>
> Also a little Rydberg, Spengler, Titchenell, and other stuff, while
litening
> to Flogging Molly. It's winter in the north.
...and I've been busy the last 4 months investigating on-line scam artists.
I'm studying their tactics to see if I can turn scam into something honest
for an on-line business activity for my son, Steven. I'm slowly and surely
getting there. I refuse to pay out any money for this, but it's extremely
time-consuming. I've got one and a half years left before Steven is
finished with school and his disability pension is not going to cover his
life-style expenses. He loves computers, the internet, etc...so....I need
to establish something worthwhile for him to do in that sphere. I'm slowly
getting there.... ;-)
I'm learning how to create banners, write html codes, I've got my
advertising matrix in place. I've got the skeletal structure of Steven's
on-line Mall done. I'm getting pretty good at designing "backgrounds." The
trouble with that, though, I'm being side-tracked into creating some rather
beautiful abstract designs that I absolutely love! LOL....Hmmm...work on
Stevie's Mall or create an artistic portfolio of my own? I've never
actually used that paint program that comes with the computer. I'm finding
out it can be quite a lot of fun to play around with it. ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
bowman
> I've never
> actually used that paint program that comes with the computer. I'm
> finding
> out it can be quite a lot of fun to play around with it. ;-)
Ever use Paint Shop Pro? Yuo can get a 30 day trial at
http://www.jasc.com/download_4.asp? and it's only US$79. Its real forte is
editing digital images, but you can do captioning, etc. I haven't used it
in a long time since I'd rather cut a finger off with a dull knife than
push pixels around, but it was a lot more sophisticated than 'paint' if
that's the one you mean.
Heidi Graw
(snip)
>
> Ever use Paint Shop Pro? Yuo can get a 30 day trial at
> http://www.jasc.com/download_4.asp? and it's only US$79.
That's over $100.00 CAN! I *refuse* to pay that much for software!
>Its real forte is
> editing digital images, but you can do captioning, etc.
I do that with my Lenmarks program which came with my 3-in-printer,scanner,
fax machine that only cost me $125.00 at the All Canadian Superstore. Mind
you, the ink cartridges cost me $42.00 each! <sigh> I just bought a
cartidge two weeks ago and I'm already on empty! I'm quite sure I didn't
print all that much either. I should have bought a Cannon for which the ink
cartridges are less than half the price of the Lenmarks. Lesson learned:
Never buy a printer without checking the prices of the cartridges. Man!
Did I ever get ripped off! :-(
>I haven't used it
> in a long time since I'd rather cut a finger off with a dull knife than
> push pixels around, but it was a lot more sophisticated than 'paint' if
> that's the one you mean.
Checking my software shelf: I got Printshop Deluxe and Expert Personal
Publisher. I should load them up and have another look. Maybe I can find
something useful.
Earlier I showed Steven my art portfolio. He refused to believe I created
these images. He figured I just downloaded ready-made ones off Google.
LOL...I actually had to demonstrate to him that I'm quite capable of doing
pictures on my own. He watched as I drew and FINALLY he believed me! ;-)
I'll load up my personal favorite which I named "Battle Scene." I'm
thinking of some heathen lore stories to "abstract". I also came up with a
really cool pattern for bed-sheets! LOL...
I'll see what I can cobble together so you can see what I'm doing. Maybe
it'll inspire the rest of you to draw a few abstract themes. A few of my
abstracts are actually quite amusing, lighthearted and fun to look at:
bubbles and polka dots! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Scott Lowther
>
> >"bowman" <bow...@montana.com> wrote in message
> news:bqbunk$210ubc$1...@ID-159066.news.uni-berlin.de...
> (snip)
>
> >
> > Ever use Paint Shop Pro? Yuo can get a 30 day trial at
> > http://www.jasc.com/download_4.asp? and it's only US$79.
>
> That's over $100.00 CAN! I *refuse* to pay that much for software!
PSP is worth it. I use it all the time to good effect. It makes not only
photo manipulation but also photo/document/drawing cleanup a relative
snap.
bowman
> Never buy a printer without checking the prices of the cartridges. Man!
> Did I ever get ripped off! :-(
I picked up a Lexmark Z54 at CostCo for $25 after the various rebates. It
came with full cartridges instead of the usual 2cc demos. Considering the
price of cartridges and that it only works with The Evil OS, I'll give it
to the Sally Ann when it runs out of ink.
> Maybe it'll inspire the rest of you to draw a few abstract themes
I did my artistic thing for the year when I carved up a set of runes.
Unfortunately I opted for artists' oils instead of the traditional blood. I
don't think that crap ever dries. I was thinking about trying my hand at
some gripping beasts or Celtic knotwork. Wood and sharp knives is more
fulfilling than pixels.
Personally, my taste runs toward Edward Hopper. I don't think I can
replicate Early Sunday Morning with a paint program anytime soon.
Heidi Graw
(snip)
> bowman wrote:
> I picked up a Lexmark Z54
...that'll teach me to post an article after a pub night for Special O.
LOL...I meant Lexmark, not Lenmarks! Mine's an X75. LOL...
> I did my artistic thing for the year when I carved up a set of runes.
> Unfortunately I opted for artists' oils instead of the traditional blood.
I
> don't think that crap ever dries.
If you don't want to use blood, try acrylic paint next time. About 25 years
ago, I got into an "art" phase. The company I worked for was on strike and
I had about 3 months of nothing to do. So, I spent my last few dollars
buying an easel, tubes of acrylic paint, canvasses, brushes, etc. and spent
hours and hours painting pictures to hang on the walls of my rented house.
Thank goodness my roommate was quite easy going and totally uncritical of my
amateur efforts. My modern art deco paintings clashed considerably with our
country-style funishings! But, each painting was colour co-ordinated for
each room.
>I was thinking about trying my hand at
> some gripping beasts or Celtic knotwork. Wood and sharp knives is more
> fulfilling than pixels.
I better stick with the pixels....otherwise I could end up with all my
fingers bandaged up if I tried carving! Last time Bill watched me use an
exacto knife, he had to turn away with a shudder...It's for this reason he
never watches me when I cook dinner...me and a knife in hand...scary! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Heidi Graw
>"Scott Lowther" <scottlowth...@ix.netcomARGH.com> wrote in message
news:3FC9BB...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
(snip)
> PSP is worth it. I use it all the time to good effect. It makes not only
> photo manipulation but also photo/document/drawing cleanup a relative
> snap.
Scott, you should be able to come up with some really extra-ordinary
abstracts using your engineering drawings as a basis! You can cut up a
drawing into pieces and jumble them around...add some colour...and voila! A
truly amazing abstract! ;-)
Why don't you give it a try...I'd love to see what you can come up with!
Take care,
Heidi
Scott Lowther
>
> >"Scott Lowther" <scottlowth...@ix.netcomARGH.com> wrote in message
> news:3FC9BB...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> (snip)
>
> > PSP is worth it. I use it all the time to good effect. It makes not only
> > photo manipulation but also photo/document/drawing cleanup a relative
> > snap.
>
> Scott, you should be able to come up with some really extra-ordinary
> abstracts using your engineering drawings as a basis!
Abstracts? BAH!! Abstract art irritates me. The ability to turn a blank
canvas, lump of clay, block of marble, etc. into somethingthat
accurately refelcts reality - even if it's a fictional reality - is far
more worthy than splashing paint on a canvas and calling it "deep."
This is about as close as I get to abstract:
http://up-ship.com/Stuff/tinkles5.gif
If you don't get it... don't ask.
Now for REAL art...
http://up-ship.com/ptm/11-13cc.jpg
http://up-ship.com/ptm/11-20gsmall.jpg
http://up-ship.com/Stuff/portfolio1.jpg
Art I *wish* I could claim as my own:
http://up-ship.com/Stuff/shields.jpg
http://up-ship.com/Stuff/kitten.jpg
http://up-ship.com/Stuff/NewFrance.jpg
http://up-ship.com/Stuff/spaceu.jpg
But if you want abstract art that's not wretchedly stupid, meaningless
pretentious crappola...
http://up-ship.com/Stuff/pillarsofcreation.jpg
bowman
> So, I spent my last few dollars
> buying an easel, tubes of acrylic paint, canvasses, brushes, etc. and
> spent hours and hours painting pictures to hang on the walls of my rented
> house.
I lived in one place that had a pastel unicorn on the kitchen wall, courtesy
of a previous tenant. She came back one day to visit her unicorn, and was
planning on how to take it with her. I think it involved chainsaws.
bowman
> You can cut up a
> drawing into pieces and jumble them around...add some colour...and voila!
> A
> truly amazing abstract! ;-)
William Burroughs for the graphic artist? I could do that programmatically,
sort of a digital kaleidioscope. Come to think of it, my screensaver
already does that, plus some nice fades and wipes.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
"Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Jatyb.530209$6C4.97208@pd7tw1no...
Doodle in TurboCAD and use a computer controlled milling machine.
FFF
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millennium
http://www.theconsensus.org
bowman
> Doodle in TurboCAD and use a computer controlled milling machine.
The only milling machine I have is a 10" mill bastard controlled by wetware.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
"bowman" <bow...@montana.com> wrote in message
news:bqe939$218bqs$1...@ID-159066.news.uni-berlin.de...
Looked into it once.
Apparently you can get computer controlled milling machines from $1000.
Could be worth it if you were in the wood carving business.
Heidi Graw
> >Heidi Graw wrote:
> > Scott, you should be able to come up with some really extra-ordinary
> > abstracts using your engineering drawings as a basis!
> Scott wrote:
> Abstracts? BAH!! Abstract art irritates me.
Oh, I dunno...it depends on what it is. Some of it can be quite good, other
stuff is just plain out dumb. Remember that mural that was done that has
just one broad vertical stripe? That stupid thing is worth millions and is
hanging in some prestigious art gallery. I really don't know how they value
things like that.
>The ability to turn a blank
> canvas, lump of clay, block of marble, etc. into somethingthat
> accurately refelcts reality - even if it's a fictional reality - is far
> more worthy than splashing paint on a canvas and calling it "deep."
My taste in art varies quite broadly. I like some of the classical Greek
and Italian art...sculptures, paintings, etc. Some modern minimalistic
stuff is good, too. What I don't like is this trend towards crude art, ie.
used condoms hanging from a tree, or jars full of urine samples and fecal
matter. That kind of stuff is truly *crap.* Some people are quite good at
taking junk and recycling it into sculptures that can be quite interesting.
Have you ever watched the show "Weird Homes?" It's amazing the kind of
artistic talent that exists that is just not recognized. I wish I had the
guts to create a "Weird Home!" But there's no way I could convince hubby to
let me have free reign decorating our house in such a totally unconventional
and strange way! LOL....
>
>
> This is about as close as I get to abstract:
> http://up-ship.com/Stuff/tinkles5.gif
LOL...Is Tinkles your cat?
>
> If you don't get it... don't ask.
>
> Now for REAL art...
> http://up-ship.com/ptm/11-13cc.jpg
> http://up-ship.com/ptm/11-20gsmall.jpg
> http://up-ship.com/Stuff/portfolio1.jpg
Very nice, Scott. Even rocket scientists need to have some artistic flair.
;-)
>
> Art I *wish* I could claim as my own:
> http://up-ship.com/Stuff/shields.jpg
> http://up-ship.com/Stuff/kitten.jpg
> http://up-ship.com/Stuff/NewFrance.jpg
> http://up-ship.com/Stuff/spaceu.jpg
LOL....
>
> But if you want abstract art that's not wretchedly stupid, meaningless
> pretentious crappola...
> http://up-ship.com/Stuff/pillarsofcreation.jpg
Yes, that's a nice piece of art. There really are beautiful things to find
in nature, space, science, etc. I actually enjoy looking at DNA strands,
especially if they've been colour enhanced. Or looking at a collection of
colour-enhanced molecules. Then, there is the macro and micro
worlds...really neat natural art! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Heidi Graw
> Heidi Graw wrote:
>
> > You can cut up a
> > drawing into pieces and jumble them around...add some colour...and
voila!
> > A
> > truly amazing abstract! ;-)
>
> William Burroughs for the graphic artist? I could do that
programmatically,
> sort of a digital kaleidioscope.
Ah YESSS! Kaleidioscopes! Reminds me of those concerts I attended back in
the '70's. You could trip out on art without the acid! ;-)
>Come to think of it, my screensaver
> already does that, plus some nice fades and wipes.
Well, now that Christmas time is drawing near and everyone's getting their
out-door lighting hung, all I have to do is take off my glasses: I see
really cool abstract art...huge pulsating colourful chrysanthemum's merging
and overlapping! What a trip walking down the streets at night! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Heidi Graw
>"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:bqe4pr$2199o1$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
(snip)
> Doodle in TurboCAD
LOL....
>and use a computer controlled milling machine.
Oh great...do they have a kitchen counter model? Mill the roast to exact
dimensions and thickness per serving? How about fancy cut goose? Ham
slices that look like little piglets on a plate? Hmmm....a money-making
opportunity for you, Dirk! The computer operated Kitchen Mill! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
DaRC
Or a much cheaper option than PSP is Gimp - i.e. it's free. It comes
from the Linux environment but I've found it to be just as good/easy
to use as PSP.
Here's a tutorial on how to use it...
http://victoria.uci.agh.edu.pl/tools/gimp/tutorial1.html
Cheers, Dave.
I think the link still works (I'll check it after posting this)
Heidi Graw
>"DaRC" <Darc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b4049d4.03120...@posting.google.com...
> Or a much cheaper option than PSP is Gimp - i.e. it's free. It comes
> from the Linux environment but I've found it to be just as good/easy
> to use as PSP.
>
> Here's a tutorial on how to use it...
> http://victoria.uci.agh.edu.pl/tools/gimp/tutorial1.html
That link didn't work, but google brought up:
It's too late at night for me to check it out. Going to bed! 'night!
I love a deal! Especially Freebies! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
bowman
> It's too late at night for me to check it out. Going to bed! 'night!
>
> I love a deal! Especially Freebies! ;-)
You'll love Linux then, if you want to devote a little time to learning it.
If you are serious about putting up a commercial site, especially if you
are going to have your own server, you'd *better* use it.
Go with SuSE and you can help feed real trolls in Norway rather than the
ugly swartzalfr of Redmond.
bowman
>
> Ah YESSS! Kaleidioscopes! Reminds me of those concerts I attended back
> in
> the '70's. You could trip out on art without the acid! ;-)
Yeah, but the acid was better. I think. I can't remember the '70s.
Hetware
I've found gimp to be very difficult to understand. There are probably
people in this world who have mastered it. For myself, I only used it for
limited things such as cropping a picture, or drawing on a map.
--
Gelonus, Kucha, Kizil, Sampul, Dunhuang, Kanishka, Cherchan, Margiana,
Sintashta, Himmelsscheibe von Nebra, Ryazan Russia, Afanasevo, Peñon
Woman, Guancha, Maes Howe, Purushkhanda.
Hetware
It's hard for me to compare the Linux experience to the Microsoft. There's
no doubt in my mind that certain aspects of working with Windoze are
easier, especially for the non-technical user. Much of the reason for this
is the amount of investment third party manufactures have put into creating
products for the Dark Lord. That is BTW the Ringwraiths of Redmound.
Some tools such as the mail and news tood are superior in the KDE. I am,
BTW one of the first KDE users. Starting with KDE Alpha 4. Back when the
propeller heads where whining about how Linux shouldn't have a puwerful
easy to use US similar to Windows, because the real power of Linux was in
the core OS, I just told them: if Linux is so powerful, then it should be
able to support a superior desktop to MS. Put up or shutup.
I knew what I was doing. I was dealing with a bunch of Krauts and Norges.
Rather than motivate them through pure reason, I gave them something to
fight for, and called them sissies if they didn't take up the fight.
There's still a long way to go, but the world will win the battle against
darkness. The sign of the Penguin will rise over every land.
SuSE since 5.1, BTW.
Hetware
Gryphon
Scott Lowther
> > Abstracts? BAH!! Abstract art irritates me.
>
> Oh, I dunno...it depends on what it is. Some of it can be quite good, other
> stuff is just plain out dumb.
Some good examples of dumb abstract art can be seen here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1024918/posts
All these WTC "memorials" are just bullcrap.
> Remember that mural that was done that has
> just one broad vertical stripe? That stupid thing is worth millions and is
> hanging in some prestigious art gallery. I really don't know how they value
> things like that.
Like all things are valued: what the buyer will pay.
> Have you ever watched the show "Weird Homes?"
Never heard of it.
> > This is about as close as I get to abstract:
> > http://up-ship.com/Stuff/tinkles5.gif
>
> LOL...Is Tinkles your cat?
Ahem...
> > If you don't get it... don't ask.
> Even rocket scientists need to have some artistic flair.
Yer goddamned right. If art was taken from the artists and given to
the engineers and the scientists, this would be a more beautiful
world. Converseley, if science and engineering was given to the
artists... well, you'd wind up with more nonsense like Hitler, the
Kyoto Accord, and planes falling out of the sky... but artistically.
Heidi Graw
>"Scott Lowther" <lex...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:44f1abbf.03120...@posting.google.com...
>
> Some good examples of dumb abstract art can be seen here:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1024918/posts
>
> All these WTC "memorials" are just bullcrap.
Certainly some kind of memorial should be put in place. I think a small
memorial park that doesn't overwhelm people with reminders of the dead might
be more appropriate. If you have lots of trees and a small memorial plaque
placed on a well-sheltered unobtrusive cairn, that should be good enough.
That way, people who are working in the nearby offices can use that park
during lunch-time without to feel haunted by ghosts! ;-)
>>Heidi wrote:
> > Have you ever watched the show "Weird Homes?"
> Scott wrote:
> Never heard of it.
The show features homes from all over North America. The owners tend to be
really eccentric collectors, architectural designers, and are just plain out
weird! Some people collect key-chains and have every wall in their homes,
table tops, counters, ceilings, etc. covered with just tens of thousands of
key-chains. Others use their engineering skills to build sculptures in
motion made of scrap metals, painted in all kinds of bright colours and have
placed them all over their property which they leave open for the public to
walk around in. Others use glass shards to create huge mosaics...whole
rooms that glitter while all sorts of chrystal doodads and trinkets are
dangling from the ceilings. A house from my own town was even featured on
this show! Yet, evertime I see one of these weird homes I keep thinking
about all the dusting that would have to be done! I don't think I could
live with all that clutter! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
news:<lTzyb.534132$pl3.294513@pd7tw3no>...
>
> > > Abstracts? BAH!! Abstract art irritates me.
> >
> > Oh, I dunno...it depends on what it is. Some of it can be quite good,
other
> > stuff is just plain out dumb.
>
> Some good examples of dumb abstract art can be seen here:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1024918/posts
>
> All these WTC "memorials" are just bullcrap.
Actually, most are pretty good.
I'll vote for a Mosque of Peace to be built on the site.
Maybe NY can get the money from a generous Saudi prince.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
"Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:F%Pyb.536170$6C4.377966@pd7tw1no...
>
> >"Scott Lowther" <lex...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:44f1abbf.03120...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Some good examples of dumb abstract art can be seen here:
> > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1024918/posts
> >
> > All these WTC "memorials" are just bullcrap.
>
> Certainly some kind of memorial should be put in place. I think a small
> memorial park that doesn't overwhelm people with reminders of the dead
might
> be more appropriate. If you have lots of trees and a small memorial
plaque
> placed on a well-sheltered unobtrusive cairn, that should be good enough.
> That way, people who are working in the nearby offices can use that park
> during lunch-time without to feel haunted by ghosts! ;-)
I rather like the idea of a terraced pyramid garden/building.
Heidi Graw
> >Heidi Graw wrote:
> >
> > Ah YESSS! Kaleidioscopes! Reminds me of those concerts I attended back
> > in
> > the '70's. You could trip out on art without the acid! ;-)
>bowman wrote:
> Yeah, but the acid was better. I think. I can't remember the '70s.
LOL...I never could allow myself to get totally blotto or drugged up. I had
this extreme need to remain in full control over my faculties. I needed to
remain *aware* and in tune with what was going on around me. Whenever I saw
someone passed out, I kept thinking about just how vulnerable such a person
is...just laying around, unconscious, unable to defend him/herself..or even
respond in case of danger. I just never had that sense of trust...trust
that someone else would take care of me while I would be in such a
vulnerable state...or maybe these people just didn't care...pass out, feel
nothing...and if someone kills you while you're just laying there...so what?
Hmmm....very sad and pathetic cases. <sigh>
Take care,
Heidi
Heidi Graw
>"Gryphon" <ea...@apollo.saturn.moon> wrote in message
news:KNidnRb7qJ2...@speakeasy.net...
Whoah! Imagine if you had on a pair of "virtual reality" glasses and you
find yourself actually walking within such a tunnel! LOL. ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Heidi Graw
>
> You'll love Linux then, if you want to devote a little time to learning
it.
> If you are serious about putting up a commercial site, especially if you
> are going to have your own server, you'd *better* use it.
>
> Go with SuSE and you can help feed real trolls in Norway rather than the
> ugly swartzalfr of Redmond.
It seems to me that anyone with computer savvy uses Linux SuSE. I know my
own techie uses it, too. Maybe, when I get to that stage, I'll hire him to
set it up for me and take me through the steps while he's sitting right next
to me. When I read these on-line instructions, I just get too confused.
"Don't tell me, show me!" ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
"Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:r8Qyb.538411$pl3.520375@pd7tw3no...
With LSD you'll be vastly more aware.
That's why another name for psychedelics was 'consciousness expanding
drugs'.
--
Scott Lowther
>
> >"Scott Lowther" <lex...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:44f1abbf.03120...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Some good examples of dumb abstract art can be seen here:
> > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1024918/posts
> >
> > All these WTC "memorials" are just bullcrap.
>
> Certainly some kind of memorial should be put in place.
Indeed. A 150-story tower with 20mm Phalanx cannons at the corners would
be a nice start.
I think a small
> memorial park that doesn't overwhelm people with reminders of the dead might
> be more appropriate. If you have lots of trees and a small memorial plaque
> placed on a well-sheltered unobtrusive cairn, that should be good enough.
That can be on the roof.
The Islamists knocked down massive towers, where much business was done.
The best way to remember the dead was to remember what was lost, and to
rebuild, but bigger, better and in a way that'll really piss off the
primates who started all this.
Scott Lowther
>
> news:44f1abbf.03120...@posting.google.com...
> > "Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:<lTzyb.534132$pl3.294513@pd7tw3no>...
> >
> > > > Abstracts? BAH!! Abstract art irritates me.
> > >
> > > Oh, I dunno...it depends on what it is. Some of it can be quite good,
> other
> > > stuff is just plain out dumb.
> >
> > Some good examples of dumb abstract art can be seen here:
> > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1024918/posts
> >
> > All these WTC "memorials" are just bullcrap.
>
> Actually, most are pretty good.
> I'll vote for a Mosque of Peace to be built on the site.
Oh, no.
Oh, HELL NO.
Everywhere Islam goes, they knock down the local places of importance,
and erect a Mosque over the remains. I'll be damned if I'll let that
happen here.
How about we bulldoze some Iraqi Mosques and erect WalMarts over them?
> Maybe NY can get the money from a generous Saudi prince.
A generous Saudi prince already tried to give money ($10Mil, I believe)
to NYC. And then-Mayor Rudy Guliani told the prince to shove it up his
ass... as well he should have.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
Well, no doubt OBL put it to better use...
Scott Lowther
> > A generous Saudi prince already tried to give money ($10Mil, I believe)
> > to NYC. And then-Mayor Rudy Guliani told the prince to shove it up his
> > ass... as well he should have.
>
> Well, no doubt OBL put it to better use...
No doubt. But of course, ten mil is a pittance compared to what the
House O'Saud was doling out anyway. Al Queda is now focussed on softer
targets liek Brits, Italians, Spaniards and the Red Cross... and these
whiny bitches are STILL complaining about the war. Sheesh.
bowman
> If you have lots of trees and a small memorial plaque
> placed on a well-sheltered unobtrusive cairn, that should be good enough.
> That way, people who are working in the nearby offices can use that park
> during lunch-time without to feel haunted by ghosts! ;-)
And the people who use the park at night can become ghosts. We are talking
NYC here.
bowman
> Here, stick this in your eye:
Just as well stuff like that wasn't around in my, er, younger days.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
"Scott Lowther" <scottlowth...@ix.netcomARGH.com> wrote in message
news:3FCBFB...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
>
> > > A generous Saudi prince already tried to give money ($10Mil, I
believe)
> > > to NYC. And then-Mayor Rudy Guliani told the prince to shove it up his
> > > ass... as well he should have.
> >
> > Well, no doubt OBL put it to better use...
>
> No doubt. But of course, ten mil is a pittance compared to what the
> House O'Saud was doling out anyway. Al Queda is now focussed on softer
> targets liek Brits, Italians, Spaniards and the Red Cross... and these
> whiny bitches are STILL complaining about the war. Sheesh.
But the news is that US troops still make up the bulk of the casualties in
Operation Sitting Duck.
Scott Lowther
>
> "Scott Lowther" <scottlowth...@ix.netcomARGH.com> wrote in message
> news:3FCBFB...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> > Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
> >
> > > > A generous Saudi prince already tried to give money ($10Mil, I
> believe)
> > > > to NYC. And then-Mayor Rudy Guliani told the prince to shove it up his
> > > > ass... as well he should have.
> > >
> > > Well, no doubt OBL put it to better use...
> >
> > No doubt. But of course, ten mil is a pittance compared to what the
> > House O'Saud was doling out anyway. Al Queda is now focussed on softer
> > targets liek Brits, Italians, Spaniards and the Red Cross... and these
> > whiny bitches are STILL complaining about the war. Sheesh.
>
> But the news is that US troops still make up the bulk of the casualties in
> Operation Sitting Duck.
Then the news is wrong. Al Queda and Fedayeen make up the bulk of the
casualties. The main difference being, an American casualty is likely to
survive, an Al Quedaer isn't.
But don't worry... the Islamists are on the march, moving your way. Soon
enough they'll be car bombing Picadilly Circus. Their attack on
synagogues in Turkey is proof enough that they don't especially care
about Iraq or Israel... they just don't like non-Muslims.
bowman
>
> But don't worry... the Islamists are on the march, moving your way. Soon
> enough they'll be car bombing Picadilly Circus.
Wake me up when they get to Tours. Wonder if Frankistan will survive this
time?
Hetware
Believe it or not, Frankistan would be purely IE, linguistically speaking.
The are already there, BTW. But, personally, I'm not judging the entire
billion plus Islamic population by the deeds of a few. None of the Moslems
on my street have blown themselves up lately.
Heidi Graw
(snip)
>Scott wrote:
> But don't worry... the Islamists are on the march, moving your way. Soon
> enough they'll be car bombing Picadilly Circus. Their attack on
> synagogues in Turkey is proof enough that they don't especially care
> about Iraq or Israel... they just don't like non-Muslims.
They've already reached Berlin. And if my relatives are telling me the
truth (I don't think they'd have a reason to lie to me), let me just briefly
say: *One* Arab in particular is pissing into the concrete used to lay
bricks and is jerking himself off during lunch-time while the other workers
are trying to eat their meals! No-one will do anything about this guy
because he wears a concealed weapon which the Berlin police won't do
anything about because this guy doesn't *always* take his weapon to work
with him. This one particular Arab (on a work visa) also gets to have a
paid apprenticeship, while my cousin, a German citizen, is working for *no*
pay....just for experience and to keep himself busy. Are my relatives
getting angry? You bet! When my cousin and his co-workers complained about
this *one* Arab, they were accused of being racist!
Anyway, if given a chance, my relatives would leave Berlin and move to
Canada! They've always got along well with the Turks milling around in
their city, but this lastest influx of Arabs? Whoah! There is a genuine
and pervasive sense of fear permeating throughout the city. No-one, no
politician, no bureaucrat, no average citizen dares say anything out loud
about some of degenerate behaviors which *some* Arabs are exhibiting. I
find it hard to believe the greater Arab community would tolerate what this
one particular Arab is doing, yet, even they aren't saying anything. It's
almost as if there is a particular gang of Arab thugs that is purposefully
provoking the general population and is encouraging public displays of
degenerate behaviors from among their own members. Imagine what would
happen to the police officer trying to charge this one Arab using the
"public obsenity" laws? Who might this Arab phone when he is given his
right to contact someone from the station? Think that police officer would
feel safe anytime thereafter? Nope...better just to leave that guy jerking
himself off in public, wearing his weapons, and allow him to piss anywhere
he wants! Yuk! Don't move to any new construction in Berlin! It could be
a rather smelly building...Arab piss in the mortar!
So, if *some* Arabs are allowed to piss on Berlin, how long will it take for
them to piss on London? Methinks, Osama is having quite the hearty laugh!
Take care,
Heidi
Heidi Graw
>"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:bqgjs5$22akr7$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
(snip)
> With LSD you'll be vastly more aware.
> That's why another name for psychedelics was 'consciousness expanding
> drugs'.
Yes, I heard about that. But, if I want consciousness expansion, I'll read
a good book...or the Guerrilla News Network! ;-) There's a superb video
clip you just gotta see:
http://www.guerrillanews.com/redux/
The "S-11 Redux", click on windows media broadband if it's appropriate for
your computer...or choose that other option.
Take care,
Heidi
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
>
> So, if *some* Arabs are allowed to piss on Berlin, how long will it take
for
> them to piss on London? Methinks, Osama is having quite the hearty laugh!
They'll have plenty of competition.
On a Saturday night in almost every town in Britain its running from shop
doorways.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
>
> >"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message
> news:bqgjs5$22akr7$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
> (snip)
>
> > With LSD you'll be vastly more aware.
> > That's why another name for psychedelics was 'consciousness expanding
> > drugs'.
>
> Yes, I heard about that. But, if I want consciousness expansion, I'll
read
> a good book...or the Guerrilla News Network! ;-) There's a superb video
Comparing the consciousness expansion of reading a good book to LSD is like
comparing a candle to a nuclear explosion.
> clip you just gotta see:
> http://www.guerrillanews.com/redux/
Not bad.
> The "S-11 Redux", click on windows media broadband if it's appropriate for
> your computer...or choose that other option.
FFF
Scott Lowther
>
> Scott Lowther wrote:
>
> >
> > But don't worry... the Islamists are on the march, moving your way. Soon
> > enough they'll be car bombing Picadilly Circus.
>
> Wake me up when they get to Tours.
I think they're already there. From what I've heard, teh south of France
is Algerian-held territory. I'm curious to see how the French bikini
industry stands up under Sharia.
Scott Lowther
>
> When my cousin and his co-workers complained about
> this *one* Arab, they were accused of being racist!
Well, clearly they are. It's A Religion Of Peace. Just ask 'em.
It's
> almost as if there is a particular gang of Arab thugs that is purposefully
> provoking the general population and is encouraging public displays of
> degenerate behaviors from among their own members.
You say that like it's unlikely.
The Islamists have found Europe to be filled with a bunch of liberal
pantywaists this time. They won't need to hack and slay to take over;
they'll just sleaze their way into power through the assistance of their
useful idiot stooges.
> So, if *some* Arabs are allowed to piss on Berlin, how long will it take for
> them to piss on London? Methinks, Osama is having quite the hearty laugh!
Indeed. When he struck at America, and America struck back... and Europe
went apeshit and started screaming that it was am American war of
imperialism, Osama must have burst a kidney from laughter.
Scott Lowther
>
> news:9oUyb.538244$6C4.52698@pd7tw1no...
> >
> > >"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message
> > news:bqgjs5$22akr7$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > (snip)
> >
> > > With LSD you'll be vastly more aware.
> > > That's why another name for psychedelics was 'consciousness expanding
> > > drugs'.
> >
> > Yes, I heard about that. But, if I want consciousness expansion, I'll
> read
> > a good book...or the Guerrilla News Network! ;-) There's a superb video
>
> Comparing the consciousness expansion of reading a good book to LSD is like
> comparing a candle to a nuclear explosion.
Good comparison. A lit candle can lead you to enlightenment. A nuclear
explosion will just kill you.
Heidi Graw
>
>> "Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >news:ifUyb.538191$6C4.101681@pd7tw1no...
> >
>
> > So, if *some* Arabs are allowed to piss on Berlin, how long will it take
> >for
> > them to piss on London? Methinks, Osama is having quite the hearty
laugh!
>
> They'll have plenty of competition.
> On a Saturday night in almost every town in Britain its running from shop
> doorways.
Eeewww...gross! <shudder> But, I'm quite sure in the more slummy sections
of Hamburg and Berlin (any large city), you'd find the same. But, generally
speaking, it's not something that is tolerated or otherwise encouraged! I
can't imagine any of our German building contractors in Canada allowing
employees to pee in the mortar! Porta-potties are located *everywhere*..on
every construction site! Health regulations, WCB policies, etc....And if an
employee waved his dick around, he'd be tossed out damn quick unless he was
involved in a porno flick.
Now....letting off oxy-acetyline bombs under the construction
trailer...that's another story...LOL...playing tricks on the boss can be
fun, especially after a night of heavy drinking and you wanna shake everyone
up in the morning! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Scott Lowther
>
> >"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message
> news:bqh455$2354qf$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >> "Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > >news:ifUyb.538191$6C4.101681@pd7tw1no...
> > >
> >
> > > So, if *some* Arabs are allowed to piss on Berlin, how long will it take
> > >for
> > > them to piss on London? Methinks, Osama is having quite the hearty
> laugh!
> >
> > Dirk wrote:
> > They'll have plenty of competition.
> > On a Saturday night in almost every town in Britain its running from shop
> > doorways.
>
> Eeewww...gross! <shudder> But, I'm quite sure in the more slummy sections
> of Hamburg and Berlin (any large city), you'd find the same.
I'm informed by several friends who have travelled Europe that, compared
to major US cities, the cities are cesspits. Paris is particularly
despised as smelling of outdoor (i.e. the sides of cathedrals, running
down the sidewalks) urinals. Italy doesn't come off much better. Prague
is described as glorious architecture used as a pisspot.
Makes me not at all want to visit Europe, especially when I haven't even
begun to fully explore North America yet.
> I
> can't imagine any of our German building contractors in Canada allowing
> employees to pee in the mortar! Porta-potties are located *everywhere*..on
> every construction site!
Indeed. Pissing outdoors in public areas is an arrestable offense in the
US, and one that is enforced. Mayor Rudy of NYC gained his position in
the hearts of New Yorkers by finally making sure the cops arrested
people who behaved like that; cleaned the place up considerably, from
all reports.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
> Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
> >
> > "Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:9oUyb.538244$6C4.52698@pd7tw1no...
> > >
> > > >"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bqgjs5$22akr7$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > (snip)
> > >
> > > > With LSD you'll be vastly more aware.
> > > > That's why another name for psychedelics was 'consciousness
expanding
> > > > drugs'.
> > >
> > > Yes, I heard about that. But, if I want consciousness expansion, I'll
> > read
> > > a good book...or the Guerrilla News Network! ;-) There's a superb
video
> >
> > Comparing the consciousness expansion of reading a good book to LSD is
like
> > comparing a candle to a nuclear explosion.
>
> Good comparison. A lit candle can lead you to enlightenment. A nuclear
> explosion will just kill you.
Ever taken acid Scott?
Thought not...
Scott Lowther
> > > Comparing the consciousness expansion of reading a good book to LSD is
> like
> > > comparing a candle to a nuclear explosion.
> >
> > Good comparison. A lit candle can lead you to enlightenment. A nuclear
> > explosion will just kill you.
>
> Ever taken acid Scott?
Response 1: Ever shot yourself in the testicles with a shotgun? You
never know, it might be the best thing you've everdone.
Response 2: Nope. I'm not stupid, and I want to examine the world the
way *it* *really* *is*.
I did, however, have a roommate in my college dormitory who was trying
to get over acid. His bouts of waking up at 3:30AM screaming Every
Fucking Morning got real old real fast, as did his habit of leaping out
of his bed in my general direction, thinking he was fighting demons.
There is, however, an Asatru connection with this. My first year away at
college was my first year of delving into the Old Norse beliefs and
finding that that fit my worldview; and I had, for no readily apparent
reason, spent part of the summer prior making an oak mallet with Norse
artwork thingamabobs on it (See: http://up-ship.com/Stuff/mallet.jpg).
More Heidi fodder, I suppose. Purely decorative, no particular practical
function to it. However... after the first time my roommate did his 3AM
"Leap At Lowther," the mallet moved from a desktop to the head of my
bed. Next night, I whopped it upside that loonies noggin when he jumped
at me. Calmed him right down, sent him right back to bed. When he woke
up next morning, he had a monster headache and no idea as to why. Life
is full of mysteries, so I allowed him one more.
That mallet of mine did a better job of "expanding his consciousness"
than acid did.
Heidi Graw
(snip)
>Scott wrote:
>I had, for no readily apparent
> reason, spent part of the summer prior making an oak mallet with Norse
> artwork thingamabobs on it (See: http://up-ship.com/Stuff/mallet.jpg).
A salamander and a pregnant sea-horse? ;-)
> More Heidi fodder, I suppose. Purely decorative, no particular practical
> function to it.
If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine motor
skills. Take a metal art course! I do, however, like the leather wrapping
you did on the handles and you get points for the overall shape of the
mallets. Nice work! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
So basically despite just about every society across the globe using such
drugs in a shamanic/religious context at some point or other the only
message you can fathom is 'just say no'.
Scott Lowther
Sigh. No... the only message I can summon up is to look atht e evidence
that it damages your brain. I'm sorry if reality has passed you by;
perhaps you are beyond help.
Scott Lowther
> If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine motor
> skills.
They came out as drawn. It was not a failing in metal work, but a
failign in the original design.
Take a metal art course! I do, however, like the leather wrapping
> you did on the handles and you get points for the overall shape of the
> mallets.
Mallet, single.
bowman
> This one particular Arab (on a work visa) also gets to have a
> paid apprenticeship, while my cousin, a German citizen, is working for no
> pay....just for experience and to keep himself busy. Are my relatives
> getting angry? You bet! When my cousin and his co-workers complained
> about this one Arab, they were accused of being racist!
I think the difference is France invited Arabs and sub-Saharan Africans to
the country to make up for the declining French birthrate and conferred
citizenship on them.
Le Mosque and Le Jerry Louis. There is justice in the world.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
Actually, there is no such evidence for LSD (for example), despite several
thousand peer reviewed papers on the subject.
Doug Freyburger
>
> What, did Ragnarok happen and it didn't make the news?
Well if it did it wouldn't make the news because the presses would
be smashed to atoms. Guess not, then.
Hetware
In some ways, the answer to Scott's quip is, yes, it probably did happen,
more than once. To my mind Ragnarok is a literary projection of past folk
memory into the future combind with observations about the contemporary
setting of the composers. The Occultists like to call it 'channeling',
which is, perhaps not the worst word for it.
Heidi Graw
>> Heidi Graw wrote:
>
> > If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine
motor
> > skills.
> Scott wrote:
> They came out as drawn. It was not a failing in metal work, but a
> failign in the original design.
Is there any way you can replace those metal designs with something more
professional looking? I really do like the overall mallet, but the metal
work detracts from what would otherwise be a truly magnificent object. I'm
not trying to be mean, but I'm just giving you a brutally honest opinion.
The mallet that you've made has the potential to be something truly
great...something worth showing off and being proud of. Why settle for good
when it could be great! Come on, Scott...you CAN do better!!! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Hetware
>
>>"Scott Lowther" <scottlowth...@ix.netcomARGH.com> wrote in message
> news:3FCC36...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> (snip)
>
>>Scott wrote:
>>I had, for no readily apparent
>> reason, spent part of the summer prior making an oak mallet with Norse
>> artwork thingamabobs on it (See: http://up-ship.com/Stuff/mallet.jpg).
>
> A salamander and a pregnant sea-horse? ;-)
You're harsh. That work shows good craftsmanship for a person who doesn't
do that sort of thing every day.
>> More Heidi fodder, I suppose. Purely decorative, no particular practical
>> function to it.
>
> If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine motor
> skills.
No, your're down-right cruel.
> Take a metal art course! I do, however, like the leather
> wrapping you did on the handles and you get points for the overall shape
> of the
> mallets. Nice work! ;-)
>
> Take care,
> Heidi
Good work Scott! And it really doesn't look all that bad. I've seen worse
in archaeological finds, so ignore Heidi (who just got on my probation
list). :(
STH
Heidi Graw
>"Hetware" <de...@spam.coom> wrote in message
news:9ZydnSo_DrF...@speakeasy.net...
(snip)
> Good work Scott! And it really doesn't look all that bad. I've seen worse
> in archaeological finds, so ignore Heidi (who just got on my probation
> list). :(
Yes, STH, I could have lied to Scott...I could have told him that I liked
the metal work just so that I could spare his feelings. I offered him *my*
honest opinion. And I do believe Scott would prefer I tell him the truth,
rather than lies.
Take care,
Heidi
Hetware
Well, not that Scott isn't worthy of a few jabs, but I still think the way
you went about telling him that you didn't think much of his work was not
very kind. I honestly disagree with with your assessment of his work. I
can certainly tell that one is intended to be a snake, and the other some
kind of dragon-like monster. But the tone with which you criticized his
work is what bothered me.
The quip about fine motor skills was really bad. Things like that can be
hard, or impossible to change. I'll have to say the comment seems
inapplicable to Scott's work, as far as I can see. But, if you ever saw an
example of my handwriting, it would certainly apply. My personal belief is
my disabilities are largely due to environmental factors, and are neither
genetic, nor congenital in origin. Nonetheless, it is very difficult to
change the skillset acquired in early childhood. To have someone ridicule
you for having such problems can really hurt. And it certainly doesn't
help.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
> Heidi Graw wrote:
>
> > If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine
motor
> > skills.
>
> They came out as drawn. It was not a failing in metal work, but a
> failign in the original design.
That why Odin gave us computers.
If I do something like that (and I'm tempted) I'll use the highest tech I
can afford.
TurboCAD and laser cutting comes to mind.
Hetware
I climed up the directory tree from where that image was, and what I found
makes me think Scott may be way ahead of you.
Scott Lowther
Who needs peer reviewed papers? I had a roommate who was driven nuts by
it.
There are no good uses for the stuff. At best it makes you see things
that aren't there. But perhaps it'll make you see things that aren't
there, long after you've stopped taking it. The fact that "just about
every society across the globe using such drugs in a shamanic/religious
context at some point or other" hardly speaks in it's favor, as just
about every society across the globe has indulged in human sacrifice,
along with massively silly and scientifically unsupported superstitions,
all in a shamanic/religious context at some point or other.
This, however, points out one of the glories of the human mind: it is
capable of learning not only from one's own experience, but from the
experience of others. I thus do not need to take LSD to see that it is a
net negative.
Scott Lowther
>
> >"Scott Lowther" <scottlowth...@ix.netcomARGH.com> wrote in message
> news:3FCCA5...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> >> Heidi Graw wrote:
> >
> > > If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine
> motor
> > > skills.
>
> > Scott wrote:
> > They came out as drawn. It was not a failing in metal work, but a
> > failign in the original design.
>
> Is there any way you can replace those metal designs with something more
> professional looking?
Probably, but why? I could replace the hubcaps on my VW Golf, but why?
> Come on, Scott...you CAN do better!!! ;-)
Probably. But I haven't the free time to indulge in such things. Had I
that time, I'd probably use it to decorate one of my .45s, instead.
Scott Lowther
> Well, not that Scott isn't worthy of a few jabs,
Get bent. >:(
but I still think the way
> you went about telling him that you didn't think much of his work was not
> very kind.
Bah. Kindness during critique is wasted effort, and likely to backfire,
as it gets in the way. Heidi is basically right, it's not very good; but
then, I don't care enough to change it. It was something I did as a
four-or-five day lark when I was 18 or so, oh-too-many-years-ago, and is
of no particular importance apart from some sentimental value. Were I to
go into the artsy mallet business, then it might be a different story.
Scott Lowther
>
> news:3FCCA5...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> > Heidi Graw wrote:
> >
> > > If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine
> motor
> > > skills.
> >
> > They came out as drawn. It was not a failing in metal work, but a
> > failign in the original design.
>
> That why Odin gave us computers.
> If I do something like that (and I'm tempted) I'll use the highest tech I
> can afford.
> TurboCAD and laser cutting comes to mind.
It wouldn't actually help in instances like this: CAD can help with
precision, but it can't help with design. If you can't dream up a good
design, CAD simply won't help you.
I use CAD all the frelling time, and am pretty good at it. I can design
all manner of tools, devices, vehicles, etc. But artsy stuff... eh.
Scott Lowther
>
> news:3FCCA5...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> > Heidi Graw wrote:
> >
> > > If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine
> motor
> > > skills.
> >
> > They came out as drawn. It was not a failing in metal work, but a
> > failign in the original design.
>
> That why Odin gave us computers.
> If I do something like that (and I'm tempted) I'll use the highest tech I
> can afford.
> TurboCAD and laser cutting comes to mind.
Something else: it sorta depends on *why* you're doing it. Let's say you
had a Star Trekkish replicator: hit the button, finished product
materializes. It'd be a great way to make a screwdriver, replenish your
ammo supplies, make a hamburger, whatever. But if you wanted to carve
your grannies face in a block of wood, it'd suck all the soul out of the
enterprise. Precision and perfection are valuable, but not in sentiment.
Hetware
I'd say both of you have a something to learn about subtelty and/or
discretion, but discretion forbids my being any less subtle.
Scott Lowther
> I'd say both of you have a something to learn about subtelty and/or
> discretion, but discretion forbids my being any less subtle.
Oh, do tell. I saw a guy driven psycho fricken bonkers by acid, and I
had to wop him upside the head with a fargin' mallet to keep him away
from me during one of his flashback attacks. I've heard of similar
events happening *many* times elsewhere. I've never heard of a single
practical advantage of the stuff. By their own admission, even
enthusiastic acid users claim to see things that just ain't there, thus
depriving themselves of experiencing the real world as it really is.
What *possible* motivation could a rational person have to indulge?
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
> Hetware wrote:
>
> > I'd say both of you have a something to learn about subtelty and/or
> > discretion, but discretion forbids my being any less subtle.
>
> Oh, do tell. I saw a guy driven psycho fricken bonkers by acid, and I
> had to wop him upside the head with a fargin' mallet to keep him away
> from me during one of his flashback attacks. I've heard of similar
> events happening *many* times elsewhere. I've never heard of a single
> practical advantage of the stuff. By their own admission, even
> enthusiastic acid users claim to see things that just ain't there, thus
> depriving themselves of experiencing the real world as it really is.
>
> What *possible* motivation could a rational person have to indulge?
Knowledge - which you obviously lack.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
> Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
> >
> > "Scott Lowther" <scottlowth...@ix.netcomARGH.com> wrote in
message
> > news:3FCCA5...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> > > Heidi Graw wrote:
> > >
> > > > If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine
> > motor
> > > > skills.
> > >
> > > They came out as drawn. It was not a failing in metal work, but a
> > > failign in the original design.
> >
> > That why Odin gave us computers.
> > If I do something like that (and I'm tempted) I'll use the highest tech
I
> > can afford.
> > TurboCAD and laser cutting comes to mind.
>
> It wouldn't actually help in instances like this: CAD can help with
> precision, but it can't help with design. If you can't dream up a good
> design, CAD simply won't help you.
>
> I use CAD all the frelling time, and am pretty good at it. I can design
> all manner of tools, devices, vehicles, etc. But artsy stuff... eh.
Of course it can help.
For one thing, you can create precision curves and perfect symmetry.
For another, you can import existing artwork from anywhere on the net and
modify it to taste.
Why reinvent the wheel?
Hetware
> Hetware wrote:
>
>> I'd say both of you have a something to learn about subtelty and/or
>> discretion, but discretion forbids my being any less subtle.
>
> Oh, do tell. I saw a guy driven psycho fricken bonkers by acid, and I
> had to wop him upside the head with a fargin' mallet to keep him away
> from me during one of his flashback attacks.
I don't believe in flashbacks. What you saw in his behavior is called
pretending. The guy may have been wacco, but the two are not necessarily
related. OTOH, acid can make a person lose controle of his senses while he
is under the influence. It can also have other detrimental effects on a
person, to include preventing him from being able to perform certain tasks
which are requierd of him while he is under the influence. There's a long
list of negatives I could present here. Anybody who doen't acknowledge
there are dangers and negative consequences to the use of psychedelics
doesn't is simply wrong.
> I've heard of similar
> events happening *many* times elsewhere. I've never heard of a single
> practical advantage of the stuff. By their own admission, even
> enthusiastic acid users claim to see things that just ain't there, thus
> depriving themselves of experiencing the real world as it really is.
>
> What *possible* motivation could a rational person have to indulge?
I think one of the best discussions of that question can be found in the
book written by the discoverer/inventor of LSD. The book is called LSD, My
Problem Child. The guy was not a Haight Ashbury Hippy. He was a
straight-laced biochemist. I urge anyone interested in the subject to read
the whole book, not just the parts that support your particular views on
the subject. BTW, I haven't taken any kind of psychoactives in many years.
I don't even drink anymore. Not that I'm 'on the wagon' or anything. I'm
just not interested. Once in a long while I'll grab a 6-pack to put in the
fridge, and that'll last at least a week.
But my comment applied to a broader range of topics than LSD.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
> Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
> >
> > "Scott Lowther" <scottlowth...@ix.netcomARGH.com> wrote in
message
> > news:3FCCA5...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> > > Heidi Graw wrote:
> > >
> > > > If those were supposed to be dragons, you need to work on your fine
> > motor
> > > > skills.
> > >
> > > They came out as drawn. It was not a failing in metal work, but a
> > > failign in the original design.
> >
> > That why Odin gave us computers.
> > If I do something like that (and I'm tempted) I'll use the highest tech
I
> > can afford.
> > TurboCAD and laser cutting comes to mind.
>
> Something else: it sorta depends on *why* you're doing it. Let's say you
> had a Star Trekkish replicator: hit the button, finished product
> materializes. It'd be a great way to make a screwdriver, replenish your
> ammo supplies, make a hamburger, whatever. But if you wanted to carve
> your grannies face in a block of wood, it'd suck all the soul out of the
> enterprise. Precision and perfection are valuable, but not in sentiment.
Art is what you make it, not how you make it.
FFF
Dirk
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
"Hetware" <de...@spam.coom> wrote in message
> Scott Lowther wrote:
>
> > Hetware wrote:
> >
> >> I'd say both of you have a something to learn about subtelty and/or
> >> discretion, but discretion forbids my being any less subtle.
> >
> > Oh, do tell. I saw a guy driven psycho fricken bonkers by acid, and I
> > had to wop him upside the head with a fargin' mallet to keep him away
> > from me during one of his flashback attacks.
>
> I don't believe in flashbacks. What you saw in his behavior is called
> pretending. The guy may have been wacco, but the two are not necessarily
> related. OTOH, acid can make a person lose controle of his senses while
he
> is under the influence. It can also have other detrimental effects on a
> person, to include preventing him from being able to perform certain tasks
> which are requierd of him while he is under the influence. There's a long
> list of negatives I could present here. Anybody who doen't acknowledge
> there are dangers and negative consequences to the use of psychedelics
> doesn't is simply wrong.
'Flashbacks' are now thought to be a symptom of post traumatic stress.
Same as with any powerful and stressful experience in some people.
Never had one, personally, although close to a trip I could often accurately
recall the 'mindset'.
Scott Lowther
>
> news:3FCD47...@ix.netcomARGH.com...
> > Hetware wrote:
> >
> > > I'd say both of you have a something to learn about subtelty and/or
> > > discretion, but discretion forbids my being any less subtle.
> >
> > Oh, do tell. I saw a guy driven psycho fricken bonkers by acid, and I
> > had to wop him upside the head with a fargin' mallet to keep him away
> > from me during one of his flashback attacks. I've heard of similar
> > events happening *many* times elsewhere. I've never heard of a single
> > practical advantage of the stuff. By their own admission, even
> > enthusiastic acid users claim to see things that just ain't there, thus
> > depriving themselves of experiencing the real world as it really is.
> >
> > What *possible* motivation could a rational person have to indulge?
>
> Knowledge - which you obviously lack.
Knowledge of *what*? Everyone I've ever met who's done drugs to any
degree - especially halucinogens like acid - has come out of the
experience *dumber,* with the exception that they've learned that what
they did was counterproductive at best.
Scott Lowther
Because I want to. This is art. It neither has to make sense, nor be any
damn good, for me to appreciate it. Now, if I want *you* to appreciate
it, otehr factors apply.
Scott Lowther
>
> Scott Lowther wrote:
>
> > Hetware wrote:
> >
> >> I'd say both of you have a something to learn about subtelty and/or
> >> discretion, but discretion forbids my being any less subtle.
> >
> > Oh, do tell. I saw a guy driven psycho fricken bonkers by acid, and I
> > had to wop him upside the head with a fargin' mallet to keep him away
> > from me during one of his flashback attacks.
>
> I don't believe in flashbacks. What you saw in his behavior is called
> pretending.
I seriously doubt that. I've seen pretending, and I've seen acid
flashbacks. They are not the same. Especially given the physical abuse
he took while flashbacking.
The simple truth is, psychadelic drugs can fuck you up, and they provide
little to no real benefit. Temporary highs interest me not at all.
Seeing colorful trails as I wave my hands around interests me not at
all. Slowing down my perception, or speeding it up, interests me not at
all. All these distract from and disguise the REAL world.
Scott Lowther
> Art is what you make it, not how you make it.
To somebody else, perhaps. But the fact that *I* made something or other
using my own two non-drug-addled hands means more to me than if I simply
bought it.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
You obviously know a good cross section of retards.
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
> Hetware wrote:
> >
> > Scott Lowther wrote:
> >
> > > Hetware wrote:
> > >
> > >> I'd say both of you have a something to learn about subtelty and/or
> > >> discretion, but discretion forbids my being any less subtle.
> > >
> > > Oh, do tell. I saw a guy driven psycho fricken bonkers by acid, and I
> > > had to wop him upside the head with a fargin' mallet to keep him away
> > > from me during one of his flashback attacks.
> >
> > I don't believe in flashbacks. What you saw in his behavior is called
> > pretending.
>
> I seriously doubt that. I've seen pretending, and I've seen acid
> flashbacks. They are not the same. Especially given the physical abuse
> he took while flashbacking.
>
> The simple truth is, psychadelic drugs can fuck you up, and they provide
> little to no real benefit. Temporary highs interest me not at all.
> Seeing colorful trails as I wave my hands around interests me not at
> all. Slowing down my perception, or speeding it up, interests me not at
> all. All these distract from and disguise the REAL world.
And all of those are just sideshows compared to the real experience.
bowman
> Art is what you make it, not how you make it.
For me, the satisfaction comes from using traditional tools and materials. I
spend my days as a CAD programmer; I don't need computer aided hobbies. OK,
I don't mind electric blowers on forges; apprenticed slaves are hard to
come by these days.
bowman
> For one thing, you can create precision curves and perfect symmetry.
Like all the crap down at Walmart?
bowman
>
> Knowledge of *what*? Everyone I've ever met who's done drugs to any
> degree - especially halucinogens like acid - has come out of the
> experience dumber, with the exception that they've learned that what
> they did was counterproductive at best.
Sort of like my personal opinion of the mead of inspiration. I think I
mislaid the '70s in a vapor trail of Dewar's and water. otoh, my infrequent
use of other chemicals during that time yielded memorable, if not always
particularly pleasant, experiences. I lived through it, so I'll apply
Nietzsche's maxim from the military school of life.
Heidi Graw
>"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:bqji7r$23mbf7$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> >Scott wrote:
> > What *possible* motivation could a rational person have to indulge?
> Dirk wrote:
> Knowledge - which you obviously lack.
I guess only if you think hallucinations qualify as knowledge. But, I'm on
Scott's side in this argument. I don't trust information gained by drug
induced alterations of the mind...unless the drug is for controlled medical
therapeutic purposes *only*...drugs meant to correct an imbalance, or to
prevent seizures.
Take care,
Heidi
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
"Heidi Graw" <heid...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:tMdzb.544656$6C4.88017@pd7tw1no...
>
> >"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message
> news:bqji7r$23mbf7$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > >Scott wrote:
> > > What *possible* motivation could a rational person have to indulge?
>
> > Dirk wrote:
> > Knowledge - which you obviously lack.
>
> I guess only if you think hallucinations qualify as knowledge. But, I'm
on
Ah... someone else who doesn't know, otherwise you would never use the word
'hallucination'.
> Scott's side in this argument. I don't trust information gained by drug
> induced alterations of the mind...unless the drug is for controlled
medical
> therapeutic purposes *only*...drugs meant to correct an imbalance, or to
> prevent seizures.
ie alter your perception of reality (and most of reality *is* perception).
Amazing how people who have never experienced it are so quick to condemn it
(or rather, what they believe it to be).
From my POV it sounds like illiterates telling me how they don't need to
'get high' by reading, and they can stimulate their own imagination without
these dubious 'symbols' wordheads call 'writing'. I mean, I've seen people
*crying* just from stuff they've read fer godssakes... can't be any good for
you....
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
> Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
> >
Basically, Scott, you are pontificating from ignorance and hearsay like some
sleazy tabloid hack.
One day before you die you ought to try it and have your eyes opened.
Heidi Graw
>"Hetware" <de...@spam.coom> wrote in message
>Hetware wrote:
> Well, not that Scott isn't worthy of a few jabs, but I still think the way
> you went about telling him that you didn't think much of his work was not
> very kind.
Steven, I already told Scott I liked the overall shape and design of his
mallet. I was particularly impressed by the leatherwork. I only took issue
with the metal work that Scott *also* recognized as flawed. I'm not telling
him anything that he wasn't aware of himself!
>I honestly disagree with with your assessment of his work.
...and that's fine, Steven! It's your opinion! I'm not going to argue with
you over personal asthetic tastes!
> But the tone with which you criticized his
> work is what bothered me.
You're pojecting a tone into my writing which simply is not there!
>
> The quip about fine motor skills was really bad. Things like that can be
> hard, or impossible to change.
Steven, I realize you're dyslexic, but Scott did not indicate he is and
neither am I. When I broke my right wrist, I had to learn to write with my
left hand. It took some practise, but I did indeed manage to write with my
left hand doing a fairly good job. People can indeed improve on their fine
motor skills if they do not have neurological disfunctions that prevent
them. Yet, I will contest that, too, because I've personally witnessed how
one could by-pass certain neurological connections and stimulate and build
up other ones. But, there are limits.
I would also warn against personalizing and assuming criticisms *not*
directed at you! You don't need to be Scott's co-dependent!
> But, if you ever saw an
> example of my handwriting, it would certainly apply.
Steven, I'm aware of your dyslexia. Do you honestly think I'd get on your
case about your handwriting!!! Sheez!
>My personal belief is
> my disabilities are largely due to environmental factors, and are neither
> genetic, nor congenital in origin. Nonetheless, it is very difficult to
> change the skillset acquired in early childhood.
I know that. There are limits to what one can do. But, consistent
therapies can improve various conditions. I know I can train myself to
improve on my own fine motor skills. For you, it will be more difficult.
But, I also know Scott is not affected in the same way as you are.
>To have someone ridicule
> you for having such problems can really hurt.
Yet, I wasn't talking about you and what you created. I was talking about
Scott's work! And overall, he did a nice job. I just don't like the metal
decorations! ;-)
And, as Scott has already explained, he feels no need to change it. And
that is FINE! It's his work after all! He is in no way obligated to me to
change it!
Take care,
Heidi
Scott Lowther
>
> >"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message
> news:bqji7r$23mbf7$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > >Scott wrote:
> > > What *possible* motivation could a rational person have to indulge?
>
> > Dirk wrote:
> > Knowledge - which you obviously lack.
>
> I guess only if you think hallucinations qualify as knowledge. But, I'm on
> Scott's side in this argument. I don't trust information gained by drug
> induced alterations of the mind
Indeed. If you've got to poison or asphyxiate your brain to come to
wisdom... you're doing it wrong.
The "drugs lead to expanded consciousness" arguements are every bit as
specious as those for astrology. How many thousands of hallucinating
hippies have come to some Great Understanding... that is fundamentally
different from the next hallucinating hippies Great Understanding?
The truth is, drugs affect the brain in physical ways, ways that can be
reproduced in lab conditions (often with *non*pharmaceutical means), and
shown to be simply hallucinations.
Doug Freyburger
>
> Operation Sitting Duck.
The typical news article mentions 1-10 US dead and 5-50 local attackers.
Whether the killed attackers are Iraqis or Islamistics from other nations
doesn't make the news, but it doesn't change the numbers. The ratio is
well over 5-to-1, unless you only chose to count those dying on one side.
Fenris Wolf
<heid...@shaw.ca> writes
> The
>trouble with that, though, I'm being side-tracked into creating some rather
>beautiful abstract designs that I absolutely love! LOL....Hmmm...work on
>Stevie's Mall or create an artistic portfolio of my own? I've never
>actually used that paint program that comes with the computer. I'm finding
>out it can be quite a lot of fun to play around with it. ;-)
Take a look at
alt.binaries.pictures.fractals
but don't blame me if you get addicted <g>
--
Fenris Wolf
RSPCA-Animadversion
http://cheetah.webtribe.net/~animadversion/
SHG
http://cheetah.webtribe.net/~shg/
Heidi Graw
>"Fenris Wolf" <Fen...@reality8.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:WdkWIICmlmz$Ew...@reality8.demon.co.uk...
>
> Take a look at
>
> alt.binaries.pictures.fractals
>
> but don't blame me if you get addicted <g>
Wow! Those are FABULOUS! I'm going to have to check into how to create
those! Thanks, Fenris, for pointing those out to me! Will I get
addicted?...probably! ;-)
Take care,
Heidi
Fenris Wolf
<heid...@shaw.ca> writes
>
See what other fractal groups your news server carries. I think the one
I gave you has an FAQ explaining how to create them posted periodically,
but it might be one of the other less popular groups.
sci.fractals is good for tips on creation. There are lots of programmes
available for download. Have fun. <g>
Fenris Wolf
<Fen...@reality8.demon.co.uk> writes
> There are lots of programmes
>available for download.
http://www.eclectasy.com/Iterations-et-Flarium24/software/
Fractal freeware