The Litigious Lynching of George Zimmerman

[Hermerico]

I've been following this whole Tryavon Martin case as closely as possible. The evidence to me is that George Zimmerman acted in self defense. I don't know if GZ is half German and half Peruvian, or half Jew and half Peruvian. I don't rightly give a F.

The evidence is that GZ acted in self defense, with restraint.

Unfortunately the best analysis was done in comments, which are hard to mine.

[Hermerico]

This site was cached before Trayvon Martin became a Cause célèbre.

http://twitpic.com/photos/NO_LIMIT_NIGGA

[Doug Freyburger]

Hermerico wrote:
>
> I've been following this whole Tryavon Martin case as closely as possible.

The "stand your ground" law in Florida does have some Asatru
applicablity. If we are to go armed when in public like it says in the
Havamal then we should be prepared to participate in combat when it is
forced upon us. That's a big "if" and the Havamal is not a Ten
Commandments handed down by a dictatorial jealous deity.

Whether that's what happened in this case is very hard to tell. Trayvon
is not the first guy Zimmerman has shot. Being a watch captain it is
very easy to believe that Zimmerman went looking for combat so it was
not forced upon him On the other hand the very old pictures of Trayvon
show him much younger not as a large strong youth who was there because
he'd been in trouble with the authorities several times in recent years.

"Stand your ground" is supposed to be about defending yourself when
combat is forced upon you. There have been many cases in Florida of
muggers being shot by armed well abiding citizens and the result has
been a lowered crime rate. But was that Zimmerman's situation? Very
hard to make a judgment without a lot better data than we'll ever see on
TV.

[rbowman]

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> The "stand your ground" law in Florida does have some Asatru
> applicablity. If we are to go armed when in public like it says in the
> Havamal then we should be prepared to participate in combat when it is
> forced upon us. That's a big "if" and the Havamal is not a Ten
> Commandments handed down by a dictatorial jealous deity.

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?97927-Because-of-Zimm-Survival-
Rules-For-The-Gunman

http://snipurl.com/231f1t5

It's an interesting thread on Gabe Saurez' site.

3. If you can’t physically carry a gun, always have a knife.

Definitely in line with the Havamal, as are most of the first ten or so,
Then we come to

12. The default should be to mind your own business.

13. The only time minding your own business is superceded by getting
involved is if what you see shocks the conscience of humanity and needs to
be stopped.


I took an unpopular position before all the bullshit started to fly and I
will stick to it. Zimmerman did his job when he reported the suspicious
behavior to 911. He then ignored 12 and 13 and not only placed himself in a
world of shit, but gave the nannies of the world plenty of talking points.

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

That's what a trial is for

--
FFF
Dirk

Full Spectrum Praxis : ZERO STATE : http://zerostate.net

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 15, 4:46 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> That's what a trial is for

A trial is for when a good case has been made that a crime has been
committed. Most lawyers who have gone public about the affidavit
scribbled up by the prosecutor have decried it as nonsensical crap
that doesn't pass muster.

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Then the court will sort it out - that's its function.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 16, 5:52 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 16/04/2012 07:09, scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> > On Apr 15, 4:46 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax<dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> That's what a trial is for
>
> > A trial is for when a good case has been made that a crime has been
> > committed. Most lawyers who have gone public about the affidavit
> > scribbled up by the prosecutor have decried it as nonsensical crap
> > that doesn't pass muster.
>
> Then the court will sort it out - that's its function.

Hopefully. But courts are not needed for every thing, every time. If
some random schmoe goes to your local police and claims that you
murdered his entire family with an axe made out of mashed-up and
frozen cheeseburgers, it's not necessarily a case for the courts.
Somewhere between "obvious bullcrap" and "obvious guilt of clear
criminality" the role of the court begins. In *this* case, the general
legal consensus seems to be that the prosecutor has not made a case
that a crime has actually been committed.

[1X2Willows]

[1X2Willows]

Judged by he way our binary dualist American media are reporting on
the case, there's no telling what really happened. One side is having a
field day about "racism" whenever some No Limit Nigga gets hurt or
killed and the other is completely in the bag with Papa Zimmermann the
Floridian ex-judge or so we hear.

Both the same, really. What this country needs is a viable third party, an
alternative voice, some kind of reasonable middle ground between or
better outside the horseshit Reps and Dems are feeding their constituency
on a daily basis by way of their respective propaganda outlets.

[Hermerico]

What this country really needs is freedom from the Zionist Stranglehold on our MSM.

I can see fissures, and that's promising.

But, back to the case of the innocent George Zimmerman; who is apparently half German-American and half Afro-Peruvian. I backed this guy, not because he's "white", which he isn't, but because he was in the Right, which he was.

All you have to do is find a map of Retreat View Circle, Sanford, FL, and put in the locations relevant to the alleged crime, and you will see that Trayvon Martin was not heading for Brandy Green's home at the time that George Zimmerman called police.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=848&q=innate&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 26, 10:26 pm, Hermerico <fjols...@netscape.net> wrote:


> What this country really needs is freedom from the Zionist Stranglehold on our MSM.

Great! Now that that is done (hell, the Zionists have never had a
stranglehold on much of *anything* in the US), we can get on to
dealing with *actual* issues, rather than imaginary ones.

[1X2Willows]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> On Apr 26, 10:26 pm, Hermerico wrote:
>
>> What this country really needs is freedom from the Zionist
>> Stranglehold on our MSM.
>
> Great! Now that that is done (hell, the Zionists have never had a
> stranglehold on much of *anything* in the US), we can get on to
> dealing with *actual* issues, rather than imaginary ones.

Hermerico seems to confuse Jews in America with Zionists.

There's no doubt the US Media - and not only Main Stream as he suggests
(PBS, the "blogosphere" and other alternative media, anyone?) - are
disproportionately populated by members of the Jewish community and this is
no secret, though pointing it out may get you in trouble. It is only okay if
you're Jewish yourself, but not otherwise. Then you're an antisemite, racist
and most of all a conspiracy theorist. Not unlike calling a Nigger Nigger
but only, if you're of African-American ancestry. Then it's not only okay,
but a mark of insidership. Product of politically correct speech.

So don't you go call anyone Nigger unless you're Black and do not use tag
lines like "Jews run Hollywood!", unless you're a Jew willing to take the
risk of ending up on the infamous Self-Hating list
http://www.masada2000.org/shit-list.html

And yes, this one is run by Zionists. Everybody knows.

[1X2Willows]

No, really.

All this country needs is to snap out of its dualist, Torah/Bible induced
lethargy and (re)grow some third nads already.

Libertarian sounds fine to me.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 28, 7:33 pm, "1X2Willows" <nos...@this.addy> wrote:

> There's no doubt the US Media - and not only Main Stream as he suggests
> (PBS, the "blogosphere" and other alternative media, anyone?) - are
> disproportionately populated by members of the Jewish community and this is
> no secret, though pointing it out may get you in trouble.

Pointing it out won't get you in trouble any more than pointing out
that main stream media outlets are owned mostly by white people will
get you in trouble. What will make people point and laugh is when you
decide that since most of the media outlet owners are white, that
means there's a white conspiracy in the media.

[1X2Willows]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> On Apr 28, 7:33 pm, "1X2Willows" <nos...@this.addy> wrote:
>
>> There's no doubt the US Media - and not only Main Stream as he
>> suggests (PBS, the "blogosphere" and other alternative media,
>> anyone?) - are disproportionately populated by members of the Jewish
>> community and this is no secret, though pointing it out may get you
>> in trouble.
>
> Pointing it out won't get you in trouble any more than pointing out
> that main stream media outlets are owned mostly by white people will
> get you in trouble.

You mean American Jews are not white?
How not nice of you.

> What will make people point and laugh is when you
> decide that since most of the media outlet owners are white, that
> means there's a white conspiracy in the media.

Ah, but only two to three percent of the American population, allegedly, are
Jewish, while in the media and entertainment, on the managing level and to
some degree on the performing level too, the percentage is clearly reversed.

[rbowman]

1X2Willows wrote:

> Hermerico seems to confuse Jews in America with Zionists.

Some of the biggest Zionists in the US are confused Christians. They may not
even necessarily care for Jews, they just want them assembled in Israel to
follow the script of their end times prophecy. It was a bad day for humanity
when the bible was translated into a language the Great Unwashed could read
and use to develop their half baked theories.

[1X2Willows]

rbowman wrote:
> 1X2Willows wrote:
>
>> Hermerico seems to confuse Jews in America with Zionists.
>
> Some of the biggest Zionists in the US are confused Christians. They
> may not even necessarily care for Jews, they just want them assembled
> in Israel to follow the script of their end times prophecy.

Why of course, if New Testament prophecies don't come true and Salomon's
temple doesn't get rebuilt, Jesus won't come back to save their pathetic
asses either.

> It was a bad day for humanity when the bible was translated into a
> language the Great Unwashed could read and use to develop their half baked
> theories.

It was a bad day when our folks adopted the Jewish cult and tried to make it
their own. We've got copyright laws for this crap nowadays.

[rbowman]

1X2Willows wrote:

> It was a bad day when our folks adopted the Jewish cult and tried to make
> it their own. We've got copyright laws for this crap nowadays.
>

what I find most ironic is the northernmost Europeans are the ones who fell
for the 'Reformation'. The Catholics, except for the Psalms and a few other
reading, had pretty much discarded the OT, and they had plenty of Gods and
Goddesses (okay, saints if you will) to go around. It took Luther and
especially Cauvin to come up with some joyless reversion to a heretical cult
of Judaism.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 28, 10:05 pm, "1X2Willows" <nos...@this.addy> wrote:

> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > On Apr 28, 7:33 pm, "1X2Willows" <nos...@this.addy> wrote:
>
> >> There's no doubt the US Media - and not only Main Stream as he
> >> suggests (PBS, the "blogosphere" and other alternative media,
> >> anyone?) - are disproportionately populated by members of the Jewish
> >> community and this is no secret, though pointing it out may get you
> >> in trouble.
>
> > Pointing it out won't get you in trouble any more than pointing out
> > that main stream media outlets are owned mostly by white people will
> > get you in trouble.
>
> You mean American Jews are not white?

Most of them are. I'm not sure how you could possibly draw your
obviously wrong conclusion from what I said.

> > What will make people point and laugh is when you
> > decide that since most of the media outlet owners are white, that
> > means there's a white conspiracy in the media.
>
> Ah, but only two to three percent of the American population, allegedly, are
> Jewish, while in the media and entertainment, on the managing level and to
> some degree on the performing level too, the percentage is clearly reversed.

Yeah, and? East Asians are over-represented in sciences. Indians are
over-represented in doctoring and tech support. Blacks are over-
represented in basketball. But hell, better part of a century ago,
Jews were over represented in basketball.

With religion tends to come culture. And Jewish culture, kinda like
east Asian culture (and sadly kinda unlike mainstream American white
culture and definitely unlike much of American black culture),
stresses academic achievement. And those who achieve academically are
more likely to rise to leadership positions in companies.

No need for whackadoodle anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

[1X2Willows]

Yeah, and Zwingli. Sorry 'bout that! :)

[1X2Willows]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> On Apr 28, 10:05 pm, "1X2Willows" wrote:
>>
>> Ah, but only two to three percent of the American population,
>> allegedly, are Jewish, while in the media and entertainment, on the
>> managing level and to some degree on the performing level too, the
>> percentage is clearly reversed.
>
> Yeah, and?

It raises an appropriate amount of suspicion that information in the US,
pragmatic and objective as it may be, has to pass a filter before it gets
disseminated to the public. I like my informants culturally diverse.

> East Asians are over-represented in sciences. Indians are
> over-represented in doctoring and tech support. Blacks are over-
> represented in basketball. But hell, better part of a century ago,
> Jews were over represented in basketball.
>
> With religion tends to come culture. And Jewish culture, kinda like
> east Asian culture (and sadly kinda unlike mainstream American white
> culture and definitely unlike much of American black culture),
> stresses academic achievement. And those who achieve academically are
> more likely to rise to leadership positions in companies.

Sure, all that as well. Now add a liberal dose of nepotism and we may be
getting somewhere. Everybody does it, everyone knows and media/entertainment
just happens to be one of these markets in the ethnic bag, regardless of
actual merit. Sorta' like all 7-Elevens run by [insert ethnicity here] in
parts of the country, without there being no other reason but "looking out
for your own, first".

> No need for whackadoodle anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

Oh I agree. This subject is so easy to prove, no theories required.

[rbowman]

1X2Willows wrote:

> Yeah, and Zwingli. Sorry 'bout that! :)

Forgot about him; he doesn't get much airplay in the US. The Swiss should
have stuck with the bears.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 29, 4:55 pm, "1X2Willows" <nos...@this.addy> wrote:

> It raises an appropriate amount of suspicion that information in the US,
> pragmatic and objective as it may be, has to pass a filter before it gets
> disseminated to the public.

It gets filtered through the reporters long before it gets anywhere
near the owners.

> > No need for whackadoodle anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.
>
> Oh I agree. This subject is so easy to prove, no theories required.

Subject unproven. Unless you believe you have proven a White
Conspiracy is running the media.

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

On 30/04/2012 02:28, scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> On Apr 29, 4:55 pm, "1X2Willows"<nos...@this.addy> wrote:
>
>> It raises an appropriate amount of suspicion that information in the US,
>> pragmatic and objective as it may be, has to pass a filter before it gets
>> disseminated to the public.
>
> It gets filtered through the reporters long before it gets anywhere
> near the owners.

It gets filtered by editorial policy shortly afterwards.
If you want news of what's really happening in the Middle East try Al
Jazeera.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 29, 8:08 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 30/04/2012 02:28, scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> > On Apr 29, 4:55 pm, "1X2Willows"<nos...@this.addy>  wrote:
>
> >> It raises an appropriate amount of suspicion that information in the US,
> >> pragmatic and objective as it may be, has to pass a filter before it gets
> >> disseminated to the public.
>
> > It gets filtered through the reporters long before it gets anywhere
> > near the owners.
>
> It gets filtered by editorial policy shortly afterwards.

And are editors more likely to be "Zionists" than they are, say,
"liberals?"

[Doug Freyburger]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> With religion tends to come culture. And Jewish culture, kinda like
> east Asian culture (and sadly kinda unlike mainstream American white
> culture and definitely unlike much of American black culture),
> stresses academic achievement. And those who achieve academically are
> more likely to rise to leadership positions in companies.
>
> No need for whackadoodle anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

http://www.amazon.com/Human-Accomplishment-Pursuit-Excellence-Sciences/dp/0060929642/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335803011&sr=8-1

In the book there is a report that Jews from Europe have been under
selective pressure for centuries to favor the smartest members. The
Rabbi was the smartest guy in the community. The Rabbi's sons got first
pick of the women in the community. Over the span of centuries this was
enough to increase the average intellegence and the variance in
intellegence. So when repression of Jews stopped under a century ago
the result was geniuses appeared among their population for more often
than among other populations of that era.

Not sure if that's whack a doodle but it sounded to me like pro-Semitism.

Growing up it was my experience that there were a lot more Jews among my
friends int he high school honor society than in the rest of the student
body. Then when I got to college the skew kept increasing. Yup, I
agree with Murray's hypothesis.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 30, 10:29 am, Doug Freyburger <dfrey...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Not sure if that's whack a doodle but it sounded to me like pro-Semitism.
>
> Growing up it was my experience that there were a lot more Jews among my
> friends int he high school honor society than in the rest of the student
> body.  Then when I got to college the skew kept increasing.  Yup, I
> agree with Murray's hypothesis.

Very likely.

There have been studies that seem to indicate that blacks have an
average IQ about 15 points lower than whites. I do not know if this is
true; if it is true, I do not know if that's due to genes, cultures or
a combo. But since Trayvon, a notable hatred of whites among blacks
has certainly come to light.

Now, it appears equally likely that European Jews tend to have a
higher IQ than European non-Jews. And additionally, Asians that come
to the US seem to be smarter than average American white folks (due,
no doubt, to the fact that the Asians who come here tend to be
engineer/scientist/doctor types, so there may be selection bias).

So, it may be that blacks hate white because whites appear smarter...
while white non-Jews hate white Jews because the white Jews appear
smarter, just as there appears to be a distinct dislike for smart
Asians. This may seem an odd thing until you reflect back to
childhood: it generally wasn't the smart nerds bullying and laying
daily beatdowns on the dumb jocks.

So this gives me an uncomfortableness for the future: if aliens come
to Earth and they are clearly smarter than us... we'll likely try
right off the bat to nuke 'em, just for being smarter. If there's one
thing people can't stand, it's a smartass... or just anyone smarter.

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

There have been numerous studies on press bias towards, and against,
Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict


Go to the references for further info

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

OTOH the average national IQ for Israel is 94
http://sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

The real smart people are in HK and S Korea

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Unless they can catch up.
That's why there is so much interest in tDCS, with reported boosts of up
to 50% on some tasks. However, nobody yet seems to have tested for
overall IQ changes. Probably because a very large number of people would
have to be involved.

However, even a 10% boost would translate to something massive across a
nation, or between nations.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 30, 12:46 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > And are editors more likely to be "Zionists" than they are, say,
> > "liberals?"
>
> There have been numerous studies on press bias towards, and against,

> Israel.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israe...

I think the Jenin Blood Libel, coupled with the ready acceptance of
any wacky bullshit or obvious photoshop fakery the "Palestinians'
crank out, does a good job of pointing out where the bias lies.

Beyond that, it's *appropriate* for editors to be biased in favor of
the culture in which they live, and against cultures that want to
destroy them. Thus I would expect a British newspaper of 1942 to have
a slightly anti-German slant. Hell, I'd expect an American newspaper
of 1940 to also have an anti-German slant to it. Similarly, American
media of 2012 would naturally have a pro-Israel bias, given that
compared to the nations surrounding it, Israel is comparatively the
Awesomest Best Friend the US could possibly have.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 30, 12:51 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> OTOH the average national IQ for Israel is 94http://sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

Interesting. According to this, the UK is 100; the US is 98. But
blacks in the US, 13% of the population, supposedly average 85, which
would mean the rest of the US population averages 99.94, which is 100
for all intents and purposes.

One wonders what the impact of the Arab population of Israel does to
Israels overall average.

[1X2Willows]

rbowman wrote:
> 1X2Willows wrote:
>
>> Yeah, and Zwingli. Sorry 'bout that! :)
>
> Forgot about him; he doesn't get much airplay in the US.

With Luther in the North and Calvin to the South, this nut was pretty much
the one to tie the knot in the middle, territorially speaking.

> The Swiss should have stuck with the bears.

Well, happy to report a lot of that is still going on, albeit under a veneer
of "official religion" like so many other places...

[rbowman]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> Similarly, American
> media of 2012 would naturally have a pro-Israel bias, given that
> compared to the nations surrounding it, Israel is comparatively the
> Awesomest Best Friend the US could possibly have.
>

Damn big 'comparatively'.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Apr 30, 9:05 pm, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

Sure.The difference between Israel and the nations that surround it is
a vast gulf, the difference between a modern democratic state and
theocratic shitholes in the thrall of a Surt worshiping cult.

[Doug Freyburger]

Republic with theoretical freedom of religion surrounded by
dictatorships with forced religion. A majority religion that is folkish
heathen that somehow ended up theoretically monotheist surrounded by
folks who will kill heathens on detection and who consider it a minor
sin to not do so.

They sure aren't a slam dunk ally like Canada but in that neighborhood
if anyone is going ot be your friend all of the other choices suck far
worse.

The people of Syria are well and truly screwed.

The US won't interfere because Syria borders on Israel so any attack in
Syrian territory would be viewed as wasting American lives to solve
Israel's problems for them. There's a big difference between shipping
materials and money versus the lives of our military.

On the Israeli side I bet most have no problem watching a long term
opponant country kill its own people and waste its own military
resources. One less thing to worry about.

[1X2Willows]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

Yet still, it remains difficult to recognize any particular benefit to the
US as a Nation and a People from such an allegiance, while disamenities
resulting from it are notoriously severe. America wouldn't have any enemies
in the region, if foreign policy was only half-assed impartial.

Religion, let's face it. That's what the Hokey-Pokey is still all about.
My humble opinion.

[Doug Freyburger]

1X2Willows wrote:

> scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>> Sure.The difference between Israel and the nations that surround it is
>> a vast gulf, the difference between a modern democratic state and
>> theocratic shitholes in the thrall of a Surt worshiping cult.
>

> Religion, let's face it. That's what the Hokey-Pokey is still all about.
> My humble opinion.

Sure, but folks in Eire claim that about their history as well and it's
equally transparently wrong there. The religion supplies the backdrop
but without issues of resources few will really care. In Eire it's
about control of territory and population with the Catholic versus
Protestant nonsense as fluff for the weak minded who are easily
distracted. Sleight of hand by a class in charge to keep the attention
off themselves.

So in Israel it has to be about stuff other than religion for anyone to
care. What's there? A republic in the middle of dictatorships. A
nuclear power in the middle of oil suppliers. An agricultural oasis in
the middle of arid wastelands. And an endless source of demogues who
spout religion to distract the masses.

Is it worth pooring resources into Israel? Depends on if you subscribe
to the "domino theory". The US bogged down in Viet Nam to keep the
Soviet Union from expanding further. It worked even though the US lost
locally. By the time the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan they were too
weak to hold it. It doesn't help that they picked one of the places in
the world far worse than Viet Nam for bogging down invaders. It doesn't
help the Soviet Union was already involved in Panonia the place that
took down Rome or whatever Bosnia and such is called this week.

By supporting Israel we give the weak minded in Islam a target other
than ourselves. By keeping everyone bogged down near Israel the
expansion of the Caliphate is slowed. Unfortunately when I read of
events in mainland Europe I see it has not been enough.

Is religion what the Muslim modern crusade of expanision is about? It
seems so. andthere we are I just agrued my way from disagreeing with
you to agreeing with you. These things happen.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 1, 12:37 pm, "1X2Willows" <nos...@this.addy> wrote:

> Yet still, it remains difficult to recognize any particular benefit to the
> US as a Nation and a People from such an allegiance,

Yes, that's the basic tenet of "Fuck 'em, I got mine" foreign policy.
A child about to be eaten by a dog? Fuck 'em, ain't *my* kid. Friends
are only worth having if they give you stuff.

[1X2Willows]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> On May 1, 12:37 pm, "1X2Willows" wrote:
>
>> Yet still, it remains difficult to recognize any particular benefit
>> to the US as a Nation and a People from such an allegiance,
>
> Yes, that's the basic tenet of "Fuck 'em, I got mine" foreign policy.
> A child about to be eaten by a dog? Fuck 'em, ain't *my* kid. Friends
> are only worth having if they give you stuff.

WHOAH! what force, what heat, what passion.
You like Pathos, don't you.
That makes two of us.

But back to our usual pragmatic selves...
Don't you define a friend a person who also gives, once in a while?
Favours, money, labor without compensation, food... something?

[rbowman]

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> Republic with theoretical freedom of religion surrounded by
> dictatorships with forced religion. A majority religion that is folkish
> heathen that somehow ended up theoretically monotheist surrounded by
> folks who will kill heathens on detection and who consider it a minor
> sin to not do so.

A republic that has repeatedly spied on the US, fed false information in
hopes of stirring up shit, insulted the President of the US, and attacked a
US vessel? They have their own destiny to work out and can do it without a
qualitative military edge carefully maintained by the US, financial aid both
direct and indirect, and a big brother with veto power in the UN.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 1, 9:09 pm, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> A republic that has repeatedly spied on the US, fed false information in
> hopes of stirring up shit, insulted the President of the US, and attacked a
> US vessel?

You just described the US. And every other country on the planet.

[1X2Willows]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> On May 1, 9:09 pm, rbowman wrote:
>
>> A republic that has repeatedly spied on the US, fed false
>> information in hopes of stirring up shit, insulted the President of
>> the US, and attacked a US vessel?
>
> You just described the US. And every other country on the planet.

Except Germany. They even provide Israel with their own highest-tech nuclear
capable subs free and clear, no questions asked. In the US, the purchase
price would have to come out of the four Billion or whatever it is, which
Israel gets as an annual "loan" wink wink nod nod, say no more.

In return for... ?

[Doug Freyburger]

All that and the other choices in that region remain worse. If the US
is to remain involved in tha tregion they are the apparent choice. It's
a big if. The alternative is isolationism. The case for isolationism
keeps swingning back and forth. Is it time to resume isolationism?

[1X2Willows]

Doug Freyburger wrote:
> 1X2Willows wrote:
>> scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>
>>> Sure.The difference between Israel and the nations that surround it
>>> is a vast gulf, the difference between a modern democratic state and
>>> theocratic shitholes in the thrall of a Surt worshiping cult.
>>
>> Religion, let's face it. That's what the Hokey-Pokey is still all
>> about. My humble opinion.
>
> Sure, but folks in Eire claim that about their history as well and
> it's equally transparently wrong there. The religion supplies the
> backdrop but without issues of resources few will really care. In
> Eire it's about control of territory and population with the Catholic
> versus Protestant nonsense as fluff for the weak minded who are easily
> distracted. Sleight of hand by a class in charge to keep the
> attention off themselves.

aye, largely

> So in Israel it has to be about stuff other than religion for anyone
> to care. What's there? A republic in the middle of dictatorships. A
> nuclear power in the middle of oil suppliers. An agricultural oasis
> in the middle of arid wastelands. And an endless source of demogues
> who spout religion to distract the masses.

- Republic in the middle of dictatorships - negotiable. Thinly veiled
theocracy more like, as social conventions are all religious based. There's
not much which is truly secular about the whole State, its customs and its
culture and if memory serves, this was the founding idea.
- Nuclear power unwilling to accept any oversee from anyone outside nor join
acts like everyone else. Rogue nuclear state by international definition and
consent, just like North Korea.
- Agricultural oasis... okay, quite an accomplishment compared to earlier.
At what cost, paid for by whom and water rights not taken into
consideration. But still. Way better than the lazy attitude dominating the
region otherwise.
- Endless source of demagogues who spout religion. We've got a hit.

So we've got a bunch of talented farmers out of the whole list.

> Is it worth pooring resources into Israel? Depends on if you
> subscribe to the "domino theory". The US bogged down in Viet Nam to
> keep the Soviet Union from expanding further. It worked even though
> the US lost locally. By the time the Soviet Union invaded
> Afghanistan they were too weak to hold it. It doesn't help that they
> picked one of the places in the world far worse than Viet Nam for
> bogging down invaders. It doesn't help the Soviet Union was already
> involved in Panonia the place that took down Rome or whatever Bosnia
> and such is called this week.

Used to be an argument, which since Iraq became rather obsolete.
The US wanted a base, a stronghold in the area. Mission accomplished.

Aggressively expanding Islamic cultures need to be observed with suspicion
and kept in check no doubt. Hovever! (and that's a big however), they're
mostly a problem if America further insists on following an imperialist
agenda which doesn't do any good for her land and people but only for
commercial interests held by the few. Select interests for which society at
large is being kept hostage and for which it pays the price, also in blood,
while profits are already scheduled to be privatized before the first boot
hits the ground.

> By supporting Israel we give the weak minded in Islam a target other
> than ourselves. By keeping everyone bogged down near Israel the
> expansion of the Caliphate is slowed. Unfortunately when I read of
> events in mainland Europe I see it has not been enough.

Yup, exactly my thought for a response right now while reading. The fifth
column has long left the region and with each passing day, it learns a
little bit better how to use our liberties to our disadvantage. Matter of
fact, each falling dictatorship creates a new wave of migrants who only care
about spreading their way of life and none whatsoever about ours or
integration. So in short, each repressive regime down there is a good
repressive regime. Leave 'em alone.

> Is religion what the Muslim modern crusade of expanision is about? It
> seems so. andthere we are I just agrued my way from disagreeing with
> you to agreeing with you. These things happen.

but mutual ;)

[rbowman]

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> All that and the other choices in that region remain worse. If the US
> is to remain involved in tha tregion they are the apparent choice. It's
> a big if. The alternative is isolationism. The case for isolationism
> keeps swingning back and forth. Is it time to resume isolationism?

As far as I am concerned, 'isolationism' is a perjorative term used by the
neo-conservative war pigs. Dealing neutrally with our neighbors in the world
and neither taking sides or, worse yet, trying to mold democratic republics
out of pig ears, is not isolationism.

[1X2Willows]

In any case, the world of options seems way too vast for anyone to decide
between one or an other extreme. There's more than aggressive expansionism
and complete isolationism to choose from.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 3, 3:47 pm, "1X2Willows" <nos...@this.addy> wrote:

> In any case, the world of options seems way too vast for anyone to decide
> between one or an other extreme. There's more than aggressive expansionism
> and complete isolationism to choose from.

Sure. I'm becoming a fan of "aggressive isolationism." As in staying
out of world affairs, except for nuking the shit out of a nation that
just kinda pisses us off. Nuke 'em and leave 'em to rot sounds like an
exciting new way to go.

An alternative is "complete expansionism." Whenever a nation pisses us
off, we move in and kick everyone currently there out, annex the
territory and auction it off to American citizens and corporations.
Take a page from the Palestinian playbook... make it a capital offense
to sell any of that turf back to the prior owners or indeed any non-
American. The goal here would be to compress the entire non-American
world population onto, say, Sri Lanka.

[1X2Willows]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> On May 3, 3:47 pm, "1X2Willows" wrote:
>
>> In any case, the world of options seems way too vast for anyone to
>> decide between one or an other extreme. There's more than aggressive
>> expansionism and complete isolationism to choose from.
>
> Sure. I'm becoming a fan of "aggressive isolationism."

You of all people? Now that was a surprise. All in all, we have one more
thing in common. Unless it was trade mark sarcasm such as this.

> As in staying out of world affairs, except for nuking the shit out of a
> nation that just kinda pisses us off. Nuke 'em and leave 'em to rot sounds
> like an exciting new way to go.

go on?

> An alternative is "complete expansionism." Whenever a nation pisses us
> off, we move in and kick everyone currently there out, annex the
> territory and auction it off to American citizens and corporations.

- which is current policy, pretty much. Except for the kicking out the
natives part. But still.

A it doesn't work and B it amounts to the main reason why Americans abroad
prefer to pretend to be Canadians instead, almost wherever they go. With the
exception of Tuvalu, perhaps.

> Take a page from the Palestinian playbook... make it a capital offense
> to sell any of that turf back to the prior owners or indeed any non-
> American. The goal here would be to compress the entire non-American
> world population onto, say, Sri Lanka.

Did ya' hear they just voted on the death sentence in Kuwait, if you insult
Aisha the Slut?

[Doug Freyburger]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> "1X2Willows" <nos...@this.addy> wrote:
>
>> In any case, the world of options seems way too vast for anyone to decide
>> between one or an other extreme. There's more than aggressive expansionism
>> and complete isolationism to choose from.

And so the pendulum swings over time as it always has.

> Sure. I'm becoming a fan of "aggressive isolationism." As in staying
> out of world affairs, except for nuking the shit out of a nation that
> just kinda pisses us off. Nuke 'em and leave 'em to rot sounds like an
> exciting new way to go.

It is a strategy that will eventually unite the entire world against us
on a scale larger than the world united against the Nazis. The Nazis
had a few allies.

> An alternative is "complete expansionism." Whenever a nation pisses us
> off, we move in and kick everyone currently there out, annex the
> territory and auction it off to American citizens and corporations.
> Take a page from the Palestinian playbook... make it a capital offense
> to sell any of that turf back to the prior owners or indeed any non-
> American. The goal here would be to compress the entire non-American
> world population onto, say, Sri Lanka.

The was the policy of the Roman Republic. Any invasion from a bordering
region and as soon as the invasion was repelled that region was
exterminated and turned into a colony. Whether the locals outside their
border wanted the job or not their lives depended on stopping any
incursion across the border into Rome. All locals were killed or
enslaved, all buildings burned, all land settled by citizens of the
Republic.

Rome remained strong as long as that policy continued but eventually
they expanded too far and could no longer sustain it. In my opinion the
US reached that peak of expansion when it absorbed so many protectorates
after the two hot world wars of the previous century.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 4, 9:49 am, Doug Freyburger <dfrey...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Sure. I'm becoming a fan of "aggressive isolationism." As in staying
> > out of world affairs, except for nuking the shit out of a nation that
> > just kinda pisses us off. Nuke 'em and leave 'em to rot sounds like an
> > exciting new way to go.
>

> It is a strategy that will eventually unite the entire world against us...

Pfff. More likely, most of the world simply wouldn't care.

> on a scale larger than the world united against the Nazis.  The Nazis
> had a few allies.

The Nazis were also conquerors. I'm simply suggesting that "aggressive
isolationists" eliminate nations that mess with 'em.

> Rome remained strong as long as that policy continued but eventually
> they expanded too far and could no longer sustain it.  In my opinion the
> US reached that peak of expansion when it absorbed so many protectorates
> after the two hot world wars of the previous century.

One more reason for the US to expand into *space.*

[1X2Willows]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> One more reason for the US to expand into *space.*

Now there's a strategy we can all agree on.

[Doug Freyburger]

I'll tweak the wording to be less specific - One more reason for us to
expand into space. In the long run I only care which country does it
because that's where my granddaughters are citizens. Gives them a foot
in the door earlier than the competition.

[rbowman]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> The Nazis were also conquerors. I'm simply suggesting that "aggressive
> isolationists" eliminate nations that mess with 'em.
>

Lidice was a good lesson on how to handle IED attacks. I agree that if the
US has to put boots on the ground to make its point, a lot of money has been
wasted on war toys.

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Where the money goes:
http://www.truthfulpolitics.com/images/u-s-federal-government-spending-by-category-program-2011.jpg

[rbowman]

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

> Where the money goes:
> http://www.truthfulpolitics.com/images/u-s-federal-government-spending-by-
category-program-2011.jpg

That pie can be sliced several different ways depending on who is holding
the knife. Creative bookeeping isn't limited to GE.

[Hermerico]

On Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:05:23 AM UTC-4, 1X2Willows wrote:
> scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > On Apr 28, 7:33 pm, "1X2Willows" <nos...@this.addy> wrote:
> >
> >> There's no doubt the US Media - and not only Main Stream as he
> >> suggests (PBS, the "blogosphere" and other alternative media,
> >> anyone?) - are disproportionately populated by members of the Jewish
> >> community and this is no secret, though pointing it out may get you
> >> in trouble.
> >
> > Pointing it out won't get you in trouble any more than pointing out
> > that main stream media outlets are owned mostly by white people will
> > get you in trouble.
>
> You mean American Jews are not white?
> How not nice of you.
>
>
> > What will make people point and laugh is when you
> > decide that since most of the media outlet owners are white, that
> > means there's a white conspiracy in the media.
>
> Ah, but only two to three percent of the American population, allegedly, are
> Jewish, while in the media and entertainment, on the managing level and to
> some degree on the performing level too, the percentage is clearly reversed.

Is terrorist kingpin Heinz Alfred Kissinger, "white"?

[Hermerico]

On Sunday, April 29, 2012 2:02:10 AM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
> 1X2Willows wrote:
>
> > Hermerico seems to confuse Jews in America with Zionists.
>
> Some of the biggest Zionists in the US are confused Christians. They may not
> even necessarily care for Jews, they just want them assembled in Israel to
> follow the script of their end times prophecy. It was a bad day for humanity
> when the bible was translated into a language the Great Unwashed could read
> and use to develop their half baked theories.

And?

[1X2Willows]

Hermerico wrote:
> On Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:05:23 AM UTC-4, 1X2Willows wrote:
>> scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>> On Apr 28, 7:33 pm, "1X2Willows" wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's no doubt the US Media - and not only Main Stream as he
>>>> suggests (PBS, the "blogosphere" and other alternative media,
>>>> anyone?) - are disproportionately populated by members of the
>>>> Jewish community and this is no secret, though pointing it out may
>>>> get you in trouble.
>>>
>>> Pointing it out won't get you in trouble any more than pointing out
>>> that main stream media outlets are owned mostly by white people will
>>> get you in trouble.
>>
>> You mean American Jews are not white?
>> How not nice of you.
>>
>>
>>> What will make people point and laugh is when you
>>> decide that since most of the media outlet owners are white, that
>>> means there's a white conspiracy in the media.
>>
>> Ah, but only two to three percent of the American population,
>> allegedly, are Jewish, while in the media and entertainment, on the
>> managing level and to some degree on the performing level too, the
>> percentage is clearly reversed.
>
> Is terrorist kingpin Heinz Alfred Kissinger, "white"?

According to current standards, yes. Ashkenazies blend in easily in the
West, while Sephards do the same in the East. It's all about Tribe.

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

rbowman wrote:

> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>

> > The "stand your ground" law in Florida does have some Asatru
> > applicablity. If we are to go armed when in public like it says in the
> > Havamal then we should be prepared to participate in combat when it is
> > forced upon us. That's a big "if" and the Havamal is not a Ten
> > Commandments handed down by a dictatorial jealous deity.
>
> 12. The default should be to mind your own business.
>
> 13. The only time minding your own business is superceded by getting
> involved is if what you see shocks the conscience of humanity and needs to
> be stopped.

Something the "Protestant Fundies" just can't handle!
They took Law from the Burgess, claiming they as Christians, could Administer
the "LAW", in accordance with the Rules, and made Vow, Swearing they Knew, the
Consequences of "BREAKING HUBRIS"!
Yet they have as in Animal Farm become the Pigs they fought so hard to Replace!

Thing is they have no CLUE, as to the True Honor, or Dignity of the "PIGS"!
If I were a Cop, and someone called me a "PIG", "I", would look em in the eye
and say:
"THANK YOU"!
PIGS, are the "Tribe of LAW"!
Bear's are the Protectorates of the Cave of the North Wind, the House of GOD,
and Gates to the Rainbow Bridge to Heaven.
The one the First Man and First Woman walked across.
Wolves are the Cairbrie, 3 Heads of the Hounds of HEL, Guardians of the
SEPULCHER, "ABRAHAM", bought for Sarah, when she died!
Both are Heavens!
Ptolemy wrote the Septuagint, Greeks told of Hel/Abaddon as the Lake of Fire,
ALL go to when they Die!
Why do you thing a Near Death Experience is a "WHITE LIGHT" EVENT?
Babylonians told of Ahura Mazda, "The" Fire with in, Shangri La of Tibetan
teachings, the Kingdom IN the Mountains, the Underground Kingdom David Hide in
during the Persecutions of Saul!
The Bottomless Pit, the Arianhod made when the Silver Wheel fell from the
Heavens!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

FRight with your self over Israel and Zion, their TWO SEPARATE NATIONS!
ISRAEL, is the Tribes of the 12 PRETENDERS.
ZION is the Tribes of the 6, the True Tribes of LAW, born of Abraham's SECOND
WIFE, he LEGALLY MARRIED AFTER SARAH DIED!
The 2, DO NOT get ALONG, which is why Eshu went into the Wilderness.

[Hermerico]

On Saturday, April 14, 2012 12:59:57 AM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>

> 12. The default should be to mind your own business.
>
> 13. The only time minding your own business is superceded by getting
> involved is if what you see shocks the conscience of humanity and needs to
> be stopped.
>
>

> I took an unpopular position before all the bullshit started to fly and I
> will stick to it. Zimmerman did his job when he reported the suspicious
> behavior to 911. He then ignored 12 and 13 and not only placed himself in a
> world of shit, but gave the nannies of the world plenty of talking points.

Perhaps you are missing the fact that there had recently been multiple break-ins in that community, one involving a woman at home with her baby when two black teens knocked on her front door, and then entered through the back door. She called 911 from a locked bedroom where she was hiding.

She claims they had to know she was in the house because the baby was crying. And they had to know she was in that room when they tried to door knob.

They took off when police arrived, but got away with some valuables.

Zimmerman's wife was frequently alone in the neighborhood during the day.

Zimmerman had every right and reason to keep tabs on Martin, who was clearly acting suspiciously. Martin had neither right nor reason to attack Zimmerman.

[rbowman]

Hermerico wrote:

> Zimmerman had every right and reason to keep tabs on Martin, who was
> clearly acting suspiciously. Martin had neither right nor reason to
> attack Zimmerman.

If he was in fear of his life because he was being trailed by an
unidentified hispanic male, under Florida law Martin would have been
justified in using deadly force.

Whatever the outcome, Zimmerman was guilty of terminal stupidity when he
exited his vehicle. For all he knew, Martin really could have been a hard
core gangsta with a Glock 21 under his hoodie and we would be playing a
different set of what ifs.

http://www.warriortalknews.com/2012/04/commentary-the-zimmerman-martin-
shooting/comments/page/2/

says it better than I can.

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

And Martin would have been within his rights to shoot Zimmerman when the
latter pulled a gun on him in public. Too bad Martin wasn't carrying eh?

[Doug Freyburger]

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>

> And Martin would have been within his rights to shoot Zimmerman when the
> latter pulled a gun on him in public. Too bad Martin wasn't carrying eh?

Less for the news to talk about if they had killed each other. Less for
the courts as well.

[1X2Willows]

))clap... clap... clap((

[rbowman]

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

> And Martin would have been within his rights to shoot Zimmerman when the
> latter pulled a gun on him in public. Too bad Martin wasn't carrying eh?

As a CCW permit holder, even pulling back his jacket to display the weapon
would be brandishing in most jurisdictions.

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

Hermerico wrote:

> On Saturday, April 14, 2012 12:59:57 AM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
> > Doug Freyburger wrote:
> >
>
> > 12. The default should be to mind your own business.

The Litigious part is the Nazi Bigots, litigating a case they swore never to Litigate.
The Failure of an Attorney to "REPRESENT" his Client, causing them to be Sanctioned by the Court, isn't Litigiousness by the Victim, rather "STATUTORY, OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE"!
To which Nemesis is Witness to the VIOLATION of HUBERIS!
Bar Oaths are a Pledge to Nemesis and GOD never to do such to a Person!
Otherwise "GOD" gave Statutory Covenant, and Nemesis Must Protect the Law!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

rbowman wrote:

> Hermerico wrote:
>
> > Zimmerman had every right and reason to keep tabs on Martin, who was
> > clearly acting suspiciously. Martin had neither right nor reason to
> > attack Zimmerman.

Depends on who your friends are and how much you can pay an Attorney!
No Money, No Rights!
Only Attorneys are Entitled to a "FREE LUNCH", especially on Your Money!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

Sitting on your Front Porch, is the "PRIVACY OF YOUR HOME", to which FAR
REGULATIONS provide Cause to Defend ones Home, against TRESPASS and ASSAULT!

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 15, 10:17 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> And Martin would have been within his rights to shoot Zimmerman when the
> latter pulled a gun on him in public.

From the evidence, Zimmerman pulled the gun on Martin when Martin was
already on top of him beating on him. The single shot right to the
heart was from within 18 inches, and consistent with Zimmermans story
of events.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

Yeah, but there is no accusation of brandishing in this case so far as
I'm aware.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 14, 9:43 pm, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
> Hermerico wrote:
> > Zimmerman had every right and reason to keep tabs on Martin, who was
> > clearly acting suspiciously.  Martin had neither right nor reason to
> > attack Zimmerman.
>
> If he was in fear of his life because he was being trailed by an
> unidentified hispanic male, under Florida law Martin would have been
> justified in using deadly force.

I don't think you've thought that all the way through, Matlock.

Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using
force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent
that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to
defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use
of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly
force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to
prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or
another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

"Reasonably believes" is kinda important here. Someone asking you what
you're up to when you are in fact a criminal is a lower level of
"threat" than said criminal knocking you to the ground, breaking your
nose and bashing your head into the sidewalk.

> Whatever the outcome, Zimmerman was guilty of terminal stupidity when he
> exited his vehicle.

So are you arguing that he should've shot Martin from inside the
vehicle???

[rbowman]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> Yeah, but there is no accusation of brandishing in this case so far as
> I'm aware.

After breaking several rules designed to prevent your life from turning to
shit, he did at least follow the one about not leaving witnesses alive.

That's a bit harsh, but the fact remains that nobody but Zimmerman really
knows what went down and even he probably has vert selective memories. The
prosecution obviously can't pull brandishing out of their ass, but they do
have to build the case that Zimmerman was the aggressor. I doubt they can
pull it off which leaves them with the slippery question of was Zimmerman,
although worse for the wear, really in fear of his life or just pissed off.

It would be sticky enough if it were white on white. Whatever the courts
decide, I still find him guilty of terminal stupidity for leaving his
vehicle. Whatever his intent was, his skill set was obviously lacking to
pull it off without making national headlines.

[rbowman]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> "Reasonably believes" is kinda important here. Someone asking you what
> you're up to when you are in fact a criminal is a lower level of
> "threat" than said criminal knocking you to the ground, breaking your
> nose and bashing your head into the sidewalk.

Turn it around, Matlock. I'm strolling through an unfamiliar neighborhood on
a rainy night eating my Skittles when I notice some dude eyeballing me.
Condition orange time. I go on my way, and the next thing I know, he's out
of his car charging after me yelling something. Definitely condition red. As
he lumbers up, I notice a Glock in his waistband. I'm apprehensive, to say
the least, and in this state I have no obligation to retreat. Note that I am
not a criminal, nor am I engaged in a misdemeanor, let alone a felony. What
am I supposed to do? Wait for this unidentified person to shoot or stab me
or run a Teuler drill? I don't need to spend the rest of my life in court,
but in this hypothetical situation I beleive I could fire until the threat
was neutralized and call it good.

'Reasonably believes' cuts both ways. If you see some guy running after you,
do you think they're just selling Girl Scout cookies?

> So are you arguing that he should've shot Martin from inside the
> vehicle???

Ask yourself what Zimmerman would do if he could get a replay. I'm betting
his ass would be welded to the driver's seat. He's not a LEO just some sort
of volunteer neighborhood watch. He reported suspicious behavior, end of
job.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 19, 12:09 pm, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> Turn it around, Matlock. I'm strolling through an unfamiliar neighborhood on
> a rainy night

Why?

eating my Skittles when I notice some dude eyeballing me.
> Condition orange time. I go on my way, and the next thing I know, he's out
> of his car charging after me yelling something. Definitely condition red. As
> he lumbers up, I notice a Glock in his waistband.

You've added several new contra-factual details here to the story. If
you really want to make this fictional tale interesting, why not make
Zimmerman a vampire? A nuclear-powered Nazi Aryan vampire, even?

I'm apprehensive, to say
> the least, and in this state I have no obligation to retreat. Note that I am
> not a criminal,

Martin was to all appearances a criminal, as the stolen jewelry, pot
and assault demonstrate.

> > So are you arguing that he should've shot Martin from inside the
> > vehicle???
>
> Ask yourself what Zimmerman would do if he could get a replay. I'm betting
> his ass would be welded to the driver's seat.

Lots of stories would be different if a replay was possible. Imagine
if the 2008 election could be replayed. Imagine if Martin could replay
his decision to attack Zimmerman.

[rbowman]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>> Turn it around, Matlock. I'm strolling through an unfamiliar neighborhood
>> on a rainy night
>
> Why?

Because I like walking around looking at stuff. Actually, I have walked
around some of the sleazier parts of Boston, NYC, Denver, and LA at night. I
tend to be wary if approached, downright anti-social if followed.

> You've added several new contra-factual details here to the story. If
> you really want to make this fictional tale interesting, why not make
> Zimmerman a vampire? A nuclear-powered Nazi Aryan vampire, even?

Forgive the embroidery. From the PSAP tape, he did sound like a charging
rhinocerous though. Nobody, and I stress nobody, knows how confrontational
he was when he got there or what actually transpired, other than he got
close enough to get punched in the nose.

> Martin was to all appearances a criminal, as the stolen jewelry, pot
> and assault demonstrate.

Whoa there hoss. Zimmerman didn't run a NCIC check. Martin was to all
outward appearances a young black male walking down the street. If there is
even a hint that Zimmerman tended to consider young black males to be
criminals, his ass is grass and the Feds will mow it. Note that I'm not
saying he was profiling; he may be the biggest rainbow coalition, diversity
loving guy in the world. Just saying if...


As I've mentioned before Zimmerman was extremely lucky this really wasn't a
bad ass nigga with a Glock 21 under his hoodie. Or. for that matter the
Spyderco Police that's my EDC. As it stands, it would help if Martin had
something other than a can of Arizona Tea and a bag of candy on his person
but those are the facts.

The real bitch is those loving neighbors that Zimmerman screwed his life up
trying to help were real quick to throw him under the bus when he brought
the media spotlights to their little enclave. Like they say, no good deed
goes unpunished.

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 19, 10:11 pm, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >> Turn it around, Matlock. I'm strolling through an unfamiliar neighborhood
> >> on a rainy night
>
> > Why?
>
> Because I like walking around looking at stuff. Actually, I have walked
> around some of the sleazier parts of Boston, NYC, Denver, and LA at night. I
> tend to be wary if approached, downright anti-social if followed.

Do you intentionally go to high-crime areas wearing the acknowledged
uniform of the criminal element?

>
> > You've added several new contra-factual details here to the story. If
> > you really want to make this fictional tale interesting, why not make
> > Zimmerman a vampire? A nuclear-powered Nazi Aryan vampire, even?
>
> Forgive the embroidery. From the PSAP tape, he did sound like a charging
> rhinocerous though. Nobody, and I stress nobody, knows how confrontational
> he was when he got there or what actually transpired, other than he got
> close enough to get punched in the nose.

From the sounds of it, in the confrontation that matters Zimmerman
didn't get close enough to get punched... Martin chased *him* down.
There were apparently two separate confrontations, IIRC.

> > Martin was to all appearances a criminal, as the stolen jewelry, pot
> > and assault demonstrate.
>
> Whoa there hoss. Zimmerman didn't run a NCIC check.

Not his role. His role was to be a "neighborhood watch" guy. And since
walking up to people and asking them what they're doing remains
perfectly legal under the 1st Amendment, he's not been described as
doing anything legally dubious.

Whether it was a silly thing to do, I dunno. But I see it as no
sillier than bait car programs. If you walk up to someone acting
suspicious and ask them what they're doing, and they respond by
jumping you, and you respond by taking them out of the gene pool... to
first order, you seem to have done society a favor.

> As I've mentioned before Zimmerman was extremely lucky this really wasn't a
> bad ass nigga with a Glock 21 under his hoodie. Or. for that matter the
> Spyderco Police that's my EDC. As it stands, it would help if Martin had

> something other than a can of Arizona Tea and a bag of candy on his person...

He had his fists. IIRC, somewhere around a thousand Americans are
beaten to death by unarmed assailants annually, so center punching
them is a measured response.

[Doug Freyburger]

rbowman wrote:
>
> Forgive the embroidery. From the PSAP tape, he did sound like a charging
> rhinocerous though. Nobody, and I stress nobody, knows how confrontational
> he was when he got there or what actually transpired, other than he got
> close enough to get punched in the nose.

The sounds on the tape don't make it clear who charged who. Then again
an early version of the tape broadcast on the news trimmed out the
questions leading up to Zimmerman saying the word "black" to make the
incident sound more ominous.

> The real bitch is those loving neighbors that Zimmerman screwed his life up
> trying to help were real quick to throw him under the bus when he brought
> the media spotlights to their little enclave. Like they say, no good deed
> goes unpunished.

He'd shot someone before. That's very damning if they do get to trial.
Makes the Zimmerman-was-the-attacker scenario much more believable.
Tough to be a juror in such a case. The neighbors knew he was a
loose cannon and are likely relieved to see him out of the neighborhood.

[rbowman]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> Do you intentionally go to high-crime areas wearing the acknowledged
> uniform of the criminal element?

A hoodie? Like this one?

http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?p=CO+532&ct=e

Actually, no. I really don't like hoods since they restrict my peripheral
vision. When I'm in a high crime area, I'm doing a lot of scanning.
Suspicious as hell, looking all around and so forth.

> From the sounds of it, in the confrontation that matters Zimmerman

> didn't get close enough to get punched... Martin chased him down.

> There were apparently two separate confrontations, IIRC.

We're getting into conjecture again. The actual sequence may or may not come
out in the trial.

> Not his role. His role was to be a "neighborhood watch" guy. And since
> walking up to people and asking them what they're doing remains
> perfectly legal under the 1st Amendment, he's not been described as
> doing anything legally dubious.

Again, it's all in the presentation. Walking up to or running after? We
don't know. Identifying yourself as a neighborhood watch volunteer and
asking politely or coming on like Rambo? Again we don't know. Attempting to
detain the person until the police arrive? We don't know. That's the answer
to almost every question except 'did Zimmerman get close enough to make
physical contact' and 'does a center mass hit from a 9mm eliminate a
potential threat'.

> He had his fists. IIRC, somewhere around a thousand Americans are
> beaten to death by unarmed assailants annually, so center punching
> them is a measured response.

THat's going to be a hard sell to the jurors I think. I haven't indulged in
that sort of foolishness for decades, but back then shooting someone because
they were beating on you was frowned upon.

My take away lesson from this fiasco is unless it's your kith or kin
involved or you're 100% that it's a lethal situation in progress and you can
identify the bad guy, call 911 and walk away. Screw putting your life and
reputation on the line for some nebulous neighborhood watch thing. The
neighbors aren't going to have your back when it goes sideways. If yuo
really want to do that sort of thing, become a cop so you have some sort of
standing. I believe Zimmerman did try that route with no success.

[rbowman]

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> He'd shot someone before. That's very damning if they do get to trial.
> Makes the Zimmerman-was-the-attacker scenario much more believable.

I believe the previous case was resisting arrest and obstruction of justice,
reduced to a misdemeanor, with mandated anger management classes. Not a
shooting, but not something that will thrill the defense. iirc, there was a
thing with a girlfriend too.

> Tough to be a juror in such a case. The neighbors knew he was a
> loose cannon and are likely relieved to see him out of the neighborhood.

Most of the neighbors probably would be happier if the watch consisted of
old ladies with binoculars and 911 on speed dial. My personal prejudice, but
I've known cop wannabe types that try to organize stuff and I usually view
them as part of the problem, not part of the solution. Usually yuo just let
them do their thing and ignore them but finding photos of your neighborhood
on the media sites is hard to ignore.


Let a man never stir on his road a step
without his weapons of war;
for unsure is the knowing when need shall arise
of a spear on the way without.

A wise counselled man will be mild in bearing
and use his might in measure,
lest when he come his fierce foes among
he find others fiercer than he.

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

Like the Plane who didn't dive bomb my house, when I didn't Signal Him with a
Mirror, to READ THE SIGNS ON MY FUCKING ROOF?
FAR 91.79, fuck Uncle Teddy and the SECRET Alteration of Federal Highways, so
his Buddies, can Assault People, AT WILL!!!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

rbowman wrote:

> scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> > Yeah, but there is no accusation of brandishing in this case so far as
> > I'm aware.
>
> After breaking several rules designed to prevent your life from turning to
> shit,

Fuck You too, said the ASS who is the Whole of the Mountain!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

rbowman wrote:

>
>
> 'Reasonably believes' cuts both ways.

Does It??

So for every WHACK you give your Enemy, YOU get CUT?

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

"scottl...@ix.netcom.com" wrote:

> On May 19, 12:09 pm, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>
> > Turn it around, Matlock. I'm strolling through an unfamiliar neighborhood on
> > a rainy night
>
> Why?

Likes "ACID", Rain!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

rbowman wrote:

> scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> >> Turn it around, Matlock. I'm strolling through an unfamiliar neighborhood
> >> on a rainy night
> >
> > Why?
>
> Because I like walking around looking at stuff.

Let the Government TAKE THAT AWAY, just cause THEY don't like Your Kind!
Funny HA HA!
RIGHT??
NO!!!
Violation of Hubris!!
End of Time Magh!
Man is a Cancer on the Body.
Chemotherapy "IS" Necessary!
Before BP and the Anglo/Aryan NATION Oil Barons dripping Dollars, "DESTROY THE
EARTH", the Gates to Heaven, and GOD'S HOUSE "ITSELF"!@!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

"scottl...@ix.netcom.com" wrote:

> On May 19, 10:11 pm, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
> > scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > >> Turn it around, Matlock. I'm strolling through an unfamiliar neighborhood
> > >> on a rainy night
> >
> > > Why?
> >
> > Because I like walking around looking at stuff. Actually, I have walked
> > around some of the sleazier parts of Boston, NYC, Denver, and LA at night. I
> > tend to be wary if approached, downright anti-social if followed.
>
> Do you intentionally go to high-crime areas wearing the acknowledged
> uniform of the criminal element?

He hangs out in PUBLIC REST ROOMS, DOING IT????

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> rbowman wrote:
> >
> > Forgive the embroidery. From the PSAP tape, he did sound like a charging
> > rhinocerous though. Nobody, and I stress nobody, knows how confrontational
> > he was when he got there or what actually transpired, other than he got
> > close enough to get punched in the nose.
>
> The sounds on the tape don't make it clear who charged who.

CIA and US ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, think it is FUNNY to Falsify Records!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

rbowman wrote:

> scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> > Do you intentionally go to high-crime areas wearing the acknowledged
> > uniform of the criminal element?
>
> A hoodie? Like this one?

<SNIP>
Said Nemesis doing the Bris!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

rbowman wrote:

> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > He'd shot someone before. That's very damning if they do get to trial.
> > Makes the Zimmerman-was-the-attacker scenario much more believable.
>
> I believe the previous case was resisting arrest and obstruction of justice,

Like the Cops who claimed "I", told em I was 18??
RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 20, 1:12 pm, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> > From the sounds of it, in the confrontation that matters Zimmerman
> > didn't get close enough to get punched... Martin chased him down.
> > There were apparently two separate confrontations, IIRC.
>
> We're getting into conjecture again. The actual sequence may or may not come
> out in the trial.

And the trial may or may not happen. As more evidence is released,
more law-talkin' experty types are saying that the case is bullshit.

> > Not his role. His role was to be a "neighborhood watch" guy. And since
> > walking up to people and asking them what they're doing remains
> > perfectly legal under the 1st Amendment, he's not been described as
> > doing anything legally dubious.
>
> Again, it's all in the presentation.

Unless some evidence comes out that Zimmerman actually assaulted
Martin first, the case is that Martin was clearly assaulting
*Zimmerman,* and thus self-defense on Zim's part is perfectly
appropriate.

> THat's going to be a hard sell to the jurors I think. I haven't indulged in
> that sort of foolishness for decades, but back then shooting someone because
> they were beating on you was frowned upon.

Shrug. If you attack someone, to the point you're beating their head
on the sidewalk, it's a fair and appropriate assumption that they are
out to do you grievous bodily harm.

> My take away lesson from this fiasco is unless it's your kith or kin
> involved or you're 100% that it's a lethal situation in progress and you can
> identify the bad guy, call 911 and walk away.

And thus we get a society more apathetic about crime.

[rbowman]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> And the trial may or may not happen. As more evidence is released,
> more law-talkin' experty types are saying that the case is bullshit.

I'm still wondering why Dershowitz jumped on the bandwagon. While he had
defended a scumbag or two, it's very doubtful he's a NRA member.

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

Why would the CIA pose as Council for the NLG and or LGBT??

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On May 22, 7:32 am, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

The "why" is simple. When there is some doubt about which way a case
may go, there may be some political sense in picking either side. But
when a case starts off absurd and quickly devolves into patent
nonsense, driven not by facts or evidence but by political agitation,
and it's clear that the case is unwinnable... it's career-limiting to
come out in favor of the clearly wrong side.

Now that eye-witness testimony has been released, publicity-seeking
lawyers who haven't hitched their star to Trayvon will either avoid
the case like the plague, or do like Dershowitz.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/sanfordpd1.jpg

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

"scottl...@ix.netcom.com" wrote:

> On May 22, 7:32 am, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
> > scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > > And the trial may or may not happen. As more evidence is released,
> > > more law-talkin' experty types are saying that the case is bullshit.
> >
> > I'm still wondering why Dershowitz jumped on the bandwagon. While he had
> > defended a scumbag or two, it's very doubtful he's a NRA member.
>
> The "why" is simple. When there is some doubt about which way a case
> may go, there may be some political sense in picking either side. But
> when a case starts off absurd and quickly devolves into patent
> nonsense, driven not by facts or evidence but by political agitation,
> and it's clear that the case is unwinnable... it's career-limiting to
> come out in favor of the clearly wrong side.

However when a case is STATUTORY COVENANT, to THE PEOPLE, and is DENIED, the People
because of POLITICAL POWER, or MONEY, then the Law is "BROKEN"!
Burger Flippers haven't a chance in this world.
How dare they think they have "RIGHTS", PEONS aren't HUMAN, ask Romney and Friends.
Lets "RETURN AMERICA" to King George's With Hunting Bible Thumpers, with a GOD who told
em to
"KILL"!!!
To Hunt the Under Privileged
Destroy all Gypsies, we don't need their BOX CITIES!
How dare they.
ONLY a "ONE MAN. ONE WOMAN", Relationship is allowed and then ONLY if they are Property
OWNERS!
Mormon's are as such "CRIMINALS"!
Regardless of their RELIGIOUS "BELIEFS", "ONE MAN ONE WOMAN, their BOOK is UN AMERICAN!
In fact at the Beginning, "Mormons", were a MUSLIM Tribe!
SADDAM. got the LOCHNAR, from SOMEWHERE!!!!!
BJ Honeycut, running a Vineyard in Turkey, and practicing LAW in New York!
Turkey is KNOWN for it "QUALITY" WINES!
Helicopters make it easy to TRANSPORT back and forth to America, by way of Afghanistan
or Iraq.
Repatriated on an Airport that "STOLE MY FUCKING LAND, and "OWE US FOR THE TAKING, there
is NOTHING to "FIGHT ABOUT", this LEPRECHAUN, wants his fucking GOLD, regardless of what
the CHURCH said about your Right to STEAL IT!

[rbowman]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> The "why" is simple. When there is some doubt about which way a case
> may go, there may be some political sense in picking either side. But
> when a case starts off absurd and quickly devolves into patent
> nonsense, driven not by facts or evidence but by political agitation,
> and it's clear that the case is unwinnable... it's career-limiting to
> come out in favor of the clearly wrong side.

Dershowitz certainly doesn't do career-limiting things, but not making any
statement is career neutral. It just makes me wonder what his motivation
was.

[rbowman]

Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole wrote:

> However when a case is STATUTORY COVENANT, to THE PEOPLE, and is DENIED,
> the People because of POLITICAL POWER, or MONEY, then the Law is "BROKEN"!

As 'bots go, this one sets the state of the art back about 40 years to Eliza
Beta 1.

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]

You sure do, Botnick!
You sure do!
You and your Aryan Brotherhood Liars set the stage for Palin and friends to
return us all to the Stone Age!
And your Socks stink as much as your Brain Dead Concepts!

[Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole]