"2012"
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
in "The Core," and the engineering... oy. A ship that cannot start up
its engines until the back loading ramp is fully closed? Ummm...
But as disaster porn, it's way up there.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Good for terrorizing the morons.
I may deign to watch some of it on a pirate Chinese site but I won't
spend good money on it.
FFF
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> Entertaining; dumb as a brick. The science was almost as bad as that
>> in "The Core," and the engineering... oy. A ship that cannot start up
>> its engines until the back loading ramp is fully closed? Ummm...
>>
>> But as disaster porn, it's way up there.
>
> Good for terrorizing the morons.
> I may deign to watch some of it on a pirate Chinese site but I won't
> spend good money on it.
>
http://dropline.net/cats/kitty/aggro-i-has-it
After being genetically uplifted it will be your boss.
Probably not left wing.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > Entertaining; dumb as a brick. The science was almost as bad as that
> > in "The Core," and the engineering... oy. A ship that cannot start up
> > its engines until the back loading ramp is fully closed? Ummm...
>
> > But as disaster porn, it's way up there.
>
> Good for terrorizing the morons.
> I may deign to watch some of it on a pirate Chinese site but I won't
> spend good money on it.
Wow. You admit to theft?
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> BTW, here's a cat for you.http://dropline.net/cats/kitty/aggro-i-has-it
>
> After being genetically uplifted it will be your boss.
> Probably not left wing.
Indeed. Cats have dignity and independence.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
I define theft as when someone loses something.
Since I would not pay $15+ to watch it even if I could not watch it
free, they lose nothing.
OTOH, if the marketing model was more realistic ie 50c to watch online,
they I *might* actually pay.
robert bowman
> I define theft as when someone loses something.
> Since I would not pay $15+ to watch it even if I could not watch it
> free, they lose nothing.
That's the standard I apply to Michael Moore propaganda flicks...
> OTOH, if the marketing model was more realistic ie 50c to watch online,
> they I might actually pay.
My comfort point is around $1 to $2. That's approximately what it costs to
view a DVD with my Netflix subscription. I'll put weird stuff on the queue
that I'd never pay to see in a theater. If it sucks too badly, I can
hit 'eject', put it back into the mailer, and try again. If it's only
mildly boring, I can read, dust the shelves, run scales, or do something
useful until it gets moving again.
Dialup keeps me honest; Chinese bootlegs, youtube videos, and so forth just
don't cut it.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>
>> I define theft as when someone loses something.
>> Since I would not pay $15+ to watch it even if I could not watch it
>> free, they lose nothing.
>
> That's the standard I apply to Michael Moore propaganda flicks...
>
>> OTOH, if the marketing model was more realistic ie 50c to watch online,
>> they I might actually pay.
>
> My comfort point is around $1 to $2. That's approximately what it costs to
Probably the same for me, but for crap I would not normally watch, like
2012 (and I probably still won't watch it even free) 50c is tops.
> view a DVD with my Netflix subscription. I'll put weird stuff on the queue
> that I'd never pay to see in a theater. If it sucks too badly, I can
> hit 'eject', put it back into the mailer, and try again. If it's only
> mildly boring, I can read, dust the shelves, run scales, or do something
> useful until it gets moving again.
>
> Dialup keeps me honest; Chinese bootlegs, youtube videos, and so forth just
> don't cut it.
Dialup???
robert bowman
> Dialup???
A prehistoric digital communication technique involving a telephone line and
a modem. It's commonly used in underdeveloped countries where DSL, cable,
WiFi, WIMAX, 3G, and other high speed methods are not available. Satellite
might work better, when it worked, but the providers tend to oversell the
beams and throttle back to slightly better than landline speeds.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > On Nov 14, 8:40 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >>> Entertaining; dumb as a brick. The science was almost as bad as that
> >>> in "The Core," and the engineering... oy. A ship that cannot start up
> >>> its engines until the back loading ramp is fully closed? Ummm...
> >>> But as disaster porn, it's way up there.
> >> Good for terrorizing the morons.
> >> I may deign to watch some of it on a pirate Chinese site but I won't
> >> spend good money on it.
>
> > Wow. You admit to theft?
>
> I define theft as when someone loses something.
> Since I would not pay $15+ to watch it even if I could not watch it
> free, they lose nothing.
I seriously doubt the law, especially in the Nanny/Police State you
choose to live in, sees it that way.
If I pick the lock on your car and go tear-assing around town and then
return your car to your home before you notice it's gone, is that
theft? Would you press charges if you found out? If your wife got all
drunked up and passed out and some random feller came along and
fondled her goodies for a while, but did no physical harm, would you
have a problem with that? If your local library had a Really Neat Book
that had fallen behind, say, some cabinet 50 years ago, and had been
long written off as lost or stolen, and you happened to find it, would
you consider it theft if you simply walked out with it? If your dad is
dying of cancer, has gone into a terminal coma, has only a day or two
left to live, and some stranger walks into his room and jabs a syringe
full of poison into his IV and kills him right there, is that murder?
If the store down the road has a 92-inch plasma screen High Def TV
that's a millimeter thick, weighs fifty grams, and consumes less
electricity than it absorbs via osmosis, but the pricetag is a hundred
times your annual salary, presumably you're not going to buy it. But
if you see the store is on fire, do you bust the window and take the
TV, since they were going to lose it anyway?
As to the pirate media... if you really weren't going to watch the
movie, then don't watch the movie. As Robert said, I'm not going to
blow good money on the crap produced by the bloviating likes of
Michael Moore or Ben Stein. And yet I'm not going to pirate their
crappy movies, because that's still *theft.* If their movies happen to
show up for free on TV or something, then I might watch... but they
*chose* to put it on TV for free.
robert bowman
> If their movies happen to
> show up for free on TV or something, then I might watch... but they
> chose to put it on TV for free.
The only Moore opus I've seen was 'Bowling for Columbine' It was presented
by 'Mothers Against Evil, Nasty Things' or some such organization and was
presented for free, although a donation was suggested. I didn't. While they
were getting set up, the FBI/Interpol threat of massive fines and life
imprisonment for doing what they were doing was prominently displayed by
the DVD projector. I slipped out before the group hugs began when the thing
was over.
Had I really wanted to push the envelope, this is an open carry state...
Nah, it's not nice to freak out nice liberal little mommies.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On Nov 15, 10:42 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>> On Nov 14, 8:40 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>>>> Entertaining; dumb as a brick. The science was almost as bad as that
>>>>> in "The Core," and the engineering... oy. A ship that cannot start up
>>>>> its engines until the back loading ramp is fully closed? Ummm...
>>>>> But as disaster porn, it's way up there.
>>>> Good for terrorizing the morons.
>>>> I may deign to watch some of it on a pirate Chinese site but I won't
>>>> spend good money on it.
>>> Wow. You admit to theft?
>> I define theft as when someone loses something.
>> Since I would not pay $15+ to watch it even if I could not watch it
>> free, they lose nothing.
>
> I seriously doubt the law, especially in the Nanny/Police State you
> choose to live in, sees it that way.
I only care about laws to the extent they can inconvenience me.
I live by my own mora compass rather than that of the state.
> If I pick the lock on your car and go tear-assing around town and then
> return your car to your home before you notice it's gone, is that
> theft? Would you press charges if you found out? If your wife got all
Theft of fuel and wear and tear resulting in depreciation.
Yes - that's theft.
> drunked up and passed out and some random feller came along and
> fondled her goodies for a while, but did no physical harm, would you
> have a problem with that? If your local library had a Really Neat Book
She would best answer that one.
> that had fallen behind, say, some cabinet 50 years ago, and had been
> long written off as lost or stolen, and you happened to find it, would
> you consider it theft if you simply walked out with it? If your dad is
Yes. They would still be deprived of it, only the reason would be different.
> dying of cancer, has gone into a terminal coma, has only a day or two
> left to live, and some stranger walks into his room and jabs a syringe
> full of poison into his IV and kills him right there, is that murder?
Depends whether dad would have wanted it.
> If the store down the road has a 92-inch plasma screen High Def TV
> that's a millimeter thick, weighs fifty grams, and consumes less
> electricity than it absorbs via osmosis, but the pricetag is a hundred
> times your annual salary, presumably you're not going to buy it. But
> if you see the store is on fire, do you bust the window and take the
> TV, since they were going to lose it anyway?
No. Same argument as library.
> As to the pirate media... if you really weren't going to watch the
> movie, then don't watch the movie. As Robert said, I'm not going to
> blow good money on the crap produced by the bloviating likes of
> Michael Moore or Ben Stein. And yet I'm not going to pirate their
> crappy movies, because that's still *theft.* If their movies happen to
> show up for free on TV or something, then I might watch... but they
> *chose* to put it on TV for free.
We obviously differ on that one.
Information is fundamentally different from material possessions in that
its replication is zero cost. Any economic model that does not factor
that in is going to be in big trouble.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> I only care about laws to the extent they can inconvenience me.
Wow.
> I live by my own mora compass rather than that of the state.
Your compass seems broken. Nobody is discussing morality... it's
*LAW.*
> > If I pick the lock on your car and go tear-assing around town and then
> > return your car to your home before you notice it's gone, is that
> > theft? Would you press charges if you found out? If your wife got all
>
> Theft of fuel and wear and tear resulting in depreciation.
Fuel is cheap. Depreciation is nil.
> Yes - that's theft.
Of a little bit of gas, which they might have replaced. Depreciation
is not calculable. So how woudl you go about figuring out the legal
charge?
> > drunked up and passed out and some random feller came along and
> > fondled her goodies for a while, but did no physical harm, would you
> > have a problem with that? If your local library had a Really Neat Book
>
> She would best answer that one.
Are you incapable? Let's say instead it was *you* that got drunked up
and felt up.
>
> > that had fallen behind, say, some cabinet 50 years ago, and had been
> > long written off as lost or stolen, and you happened to find it, would
> > you consider it theft if you simply walked out with it? If your dad is
>
> Yes. They would still be deprived of it
No, they wouldn't. To them, it's gone.
It's like someone witha metal detector on your little island finding
a hoard of Viking gold on some farmers land: if they smuggle it out of
Britain and into the free world, neither the farmer nor the UK
governemnt will see a penny from the stuff. And yet, they haven't
*lost* anything, since they didn;t even know it was there. Is that
theft?
> > dying of cancer, has gone into a terminal coma, has only a day or two
> > left to live, and some stranger walks into his room and jabs a syringe
> > full of poison into his IV and kills him right there, is that murder?
>
> Depends whether dad would have wanted it.
Assume no. But he's no longer in a position to express an opinion, nor
will he be.
What if you see someone about to hurl themself off of a tall building,
to commit suicide. And as they flop over the side, you shoot 'em with
a good rifle. hell of a shot; he's dead before he hits the ground. Is
it murder?
>
> > If the store down the road has a 92-inch plasma screen High Def TV
> > that's a millimeter thick, weighs fifty grams, and consumes less
> > electricity than it absorbs via osmosis, but the pricetag is a hundred
> > times your annual salary, presumably you're not going to buy it. But
> > if you see the store is on fire, do you bust the window and take the
> > TV, since they were going to lose it anyway?
>
> No. Same argument as library.
Ah, no. The fire was going to destroy the TV, as was described. Either
way, the store is going to lose the TV. Buit if you take it, you
*gain* a TV you otherwise were not going to pay for. And this by you
is *not* theft?
That's the difference between me, capitalist, and you, socialist. In
my world, "what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours." In your world,
"What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine." We have a fundamentally
different view on the sanctity of property.
> Information is fundamentally different from material possessions in that
> its replication is zero cost.
Ah. So college is free, then.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
> Had I really wanted to push the envelope, this is an open carry state...
> Nah, it's not nice to freak out nice liberal little mommies.
I would have paid good money to see somethign like that.
And had I managed to break into Dirk's bank account via computer, I
would have paid a good sum of *his* money to see that. Information
being free and all...
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On Nov 15, 6:58 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I only care about laws to the extent they can inconvenience me.
>
> Wow.
>
>> I live by my own mora compass rather than that of the state.
>
> Your compass seems broken. Nobody is discussing morality... it's
> *LAW.*
The *LAW* is only as good as its enforcement.
>>> If I pick the lock on your car and go tear-assing around town and then
>>> return your car to your home before you notice it's gone, is that
>>> theft? Would you press charges if you found out? If your wife got all
>> Theft of fuel and wear and tear resulting in depreciation.
>
> Fuel is cheap. Depreciation is nil.
Not here it isn't.
>> Yes - that's theft.
>
> Of a little bit of gas, which they might have replaced. Depreciation
> is not calculable. So how woudl you go about figuring out the legal
> charge?
There is a standard cost per mile used by the AA, which includes all
factors.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/running_costs/index.html
>>> drunked up and passed out and some random feller came along and
>>> fondled her goodies for a while, but did no physical harm, would you
>>> have a problem with that? If your local library had a Really Neat Book
>> She would best answer that one.
>
> Are you incapable? Let's say instead it was *you* that got drunked up
> and felt up.
Then I would sort it out.
And yes, that has actually happened to me in the past.
>>> that had fallen behind, say, some cabinet 50 years ago, and had been
>>> long written off as lost or stolen, and you happened to find it, would
>>> you consider it theft if you simply walked out with it? If your dad is
>> Yes. They would still be deprived of it
>
> No, they wouldn't. To them, it's gone.
Their lack of knowledge is irrelevant.
> It's like someone witha metal detector on your little island finding
> a hoard of Viking gold on some farmers land: if they smuggle it out of
> Britain and into the free world, neither the farmer nor the UK
> governemnt will see a penny from the stuff. And yet, they haven't
> *lost* anything, since they didn;t even know it was there. Is that
> theft?
Yes.
>>> dying of cancer, has gone into a terminal coma, has only a day or two
>>> left to live, and some stranger walks into his room and jabs a syringe
>>> full of poison into his IV and kills him right there, is that murder?
>> Depends whether dad would have wanted it.
>
> Assume no. But he's no longer in a position to express an opinion, nor
> will he be.
Then the law will have to sort it out.
> What if you see someone about to hurl themself off of a tall building,
> to commit suicide. And as they flop over the side, you shoot 'em with
> a good rifle. hell of a shot; he's dead before he hits the ground. Is
> it murder?
Then the law will have to sort it out. I have no opinion.
>>> If the store down the road has a 92-inch plasma screen High Def TV
>>> that's a millimeter thick, weighs fifty grams, and consumes less
>>> electricity than it absorbs via osmosis, but the pricetag is a hundred
>>> times your annual salary, presumably you're not going to buy it. But
>>> if you see the store is on fire, do you bust the window and take the
>>> TV, since they were going to lose it anyway?
>> No. Same argument as library.
>
> Ah, no. The fire was going to destroy the TV, as was described. Either
> way, the store is going to lose the TV. Buit if you take it, you
> *gain* a TV you otherwise were not going to pay for. And this by you
> is *not* theft?
What do salvage laws state?
> That's the difference between me, capitalist, and you, socialist. In
> my world, "what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours." In your world,
> "What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine." We have a fundamentally
> different view on the sanctity of property.
Maybe.
My view is that if you cannot keep what is yours then you lose it.
>> Information is fundamentally different from material possessions in that
>> its replication is zero cost.
>
> Ah. So college is free, then.
http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Had you broken into my account and discovered how much I had, then no
problem. Taking the money, OTOH, does deprive of a very material possession.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> Had you broken into my account and discovered how much I had, then no
> problem. Taking the money, OTOH, does deprive of a very material possession.
Come now, you're a good little socialist. Spread the wealth!
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > On Nov 15, 6:58 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> I only care about laws to the extent they can inconvenience me.
>
> > Wow.
>
> >> I live by my own mora compass rather than that of the state.
>
> > Your compass seems broken. Nobody is discussing morality... it's
> > *LAW.*
>
> The *LAW* is only as good as its enforcement.
Sure. And you're discussing breaking the law. If you get away with it,
then your functional respect for the law - *all* law - goes into
decline.
>
> >>> If I pick the lock on your car and go tear-assing around town and then
> >>> return your car to your home before you notice it's gone, is that
> >>> theft? Would you press charges if you found out? If your wife got all
> >> Theft of fuel and wear and tear resulting in depreciation.
>
> > Fuel is cheap. Depreciation is nil.
>
> Not here it isn't.
Then maybe you shoudl do something about that. Sounds like you're...
getting robbed.
> >>> drunked up and passed out and some random feller came along and
> >>> fondled her goodies for a while, but did no physical harm, would you
> >>> have a problem with that? If your local library had a Really Neat Book
> >> She would best answer that one.
>
> > Are you incapable? Let's say instead it was *you* that got drunked up
> > and felt up.
>
> Then I would sort it out.
How so/in what way? Since your viewpoint seems to be that theft is
only theft when it involves the loss of material objects, gettign felt
up while unconscious deprives you of nothign. Therefore, no loss, no
crime, nothign to get upset about.
> >>> that had fallen behind, say, some cabinet 50 years ago, and had been
> >>> long written off as lost or stolen, and you happened to find it, would
> >>> you consider it theft if you simply walked out with it? If your dad is
> >> Yes. They would still be deprived of it
>
> > No, they wouldn't. To them, it's gone.
>
> Their lack of knowledge is irrelevant.
Ah. Then how about the movie company that you are pirating?
>
> > It's like someone witha metal detector on your little island finding
> > a hoard of Viking gold on some farmers land: if they smuggle it out of
> > Britain and into the free world, neither the farmer nor the UK
> > governemnt will see a penny from the stuff. And yet, they haven't
> > *lost* anything, since they didn;t even know it was there. Is that
> > theft?
>
> Yes.
Why? You've not depriving anyone of anythign they had.
>
> >>> dying of cancer, has gone into a terminal coma, has only a day or two
> >>> left to live, and some stranger walks into his room and jabs a syringe
> >>> full of poison into his IV and kills him right there, is that murder?
> >> Depends whether dad would have wanted it.
>
> > Assume no. But he's no longer in a position to express an opinion, nor
> > will he be.
>
> Then the law will have to sort it out.
But you have no respect or use for the law. So how would it sort it
out, since you can't sort it out yourself?
> > Ah, no. The fire was going to destroy the TV, as was described. Either
> > way, the store is going to lose the TV. Buit if you take it, you
> > *gain* a TV you otherwise were not going to pay for. And this by you
> > is *not* theft?
>
> What do salvage laws state?
Well, in Britain, you apparently have to turn it over to the
government.
>
> > That's the difference between me, capitalist, and you, socialist. In
> > my world, "what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours." In your world,
> > "What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine." We have a fundamentally
> > different view on the sanctity of property.
>
> Maybe.
> My view is that if you cannot keep what is yours then you lose it.
Ah. Then whether you see yourself that way or not, you support anarchy
and theft. When you can get away with it. Remind me to never let you
into my home. Odin only knows what you'd try to walk off with.
> >> Information is fundamentally different from material possessions in that
> >> its replication is zero cost.
>
> > Ah. So college is free, then.
>
> http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm
What is obtained without effort or cost is not respected.
Doug Freyburger
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I live by my own mora compass rather than that of the state.
>
> Your compass seems broken. Nobody is discussing morality... it's
> *LAW.*
A bit overly simplified but we have a system like that in the lore.
Tyr - Letter of the law. Thor - Moral compass. Odin - End justifies
the means mixed with positive PR. Loki - End jusifies the means mixed
with negative PR.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On Nov 15, 8:23 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>> On Nov 15, 6:58 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I only care about laws to the extent they can inconvenience me.
>>> Wow.
>>>> I live by my own mora compass rather than that of the state.
>>> Your compass seems broken. Nobody is discussing morality... it's
>>> *LAW.*
>> The *LAW* is only as good as its enforcement.
>
> Sure. And you're discussing breaking the law. If you get away with it,
> then your functional respect for the law - *all* law - goes into
> decline.
Laws - for the guidance of the wise and the observance of fools.
As for respect for the law, the biggest factor undermining such respect
are bad laws.
>
>>>>> drunked up and passed out and some random feller came along and
>>>>> fondled her goodies for a while, but did no physical harm, would you
>>>>> have a problem with that? If your local library had a Really Neat Book
>>>> She would best answer that one.
>>> Are you incapable? Let's say instead it was *you* that got drunked up
>>> and felt up.
>> Then I would sort it out.
>
> How so/in what way? Since your viewpoint seems to be that theft is
> only theft when it involves the loss of material objects, gettign felt
> up while unconscious deprives you of nothign. Therefore, no loss, no
> crime, nothign to get upset about.
I wasn't overly upset.
When a man did it I politely pointed out I wasn't interested.
When it was a woman I took up the invitation.
>>>>> that had fallen behind, say, some cabinet 50 years ago, and had been
>>>>> long written off as lost or stolen, and you happened to find it, would
>>>>> you consider it theft if you simply walked out with it? If your dad is
>>>> Yes. They would still be deprived of it
>>> No, they wouldn't. To them, it's gone.
>> Their lack of knowledge is irrelevant.
>
> Ah. Then how about the movie company that you are pirating?
They have lost nothing, whether they know it or not.
>>> It's like someone witha metal detector on your little island finding
>>> a hoard of Viking gold on some farmers land: if they smuggle it out of
>>> Britain and into the free world, neither the farmer nor the UK
>>> governemnt will see a penny from the stuff. And yet, they haven't
>>> *lost* anything, since they didn;t even know it was there. Is that
>>> theft?
>> Yes.
>
> Why? You've not depriving anyone of anythign they had.
Of course I am.
I am depriving them of something they had, but did not yet know of it. I
am depriving them of future wealth.
>>>>> dying of cancer, has gone into a terminal coma, has only a day or two
>>>>> left to live, and some stranger walks into his room and jabs a syringe
>>>>> full of poison into his IV and kills him right there, is that murder?
>>>> Depends whether dad would have wanted it.
>>> Assume no. But he's no longer in a position to express an opinion, nor
>>> will he be.
>> Then the law will have to sort it out.
>
> But you have no respect or use for the law. So how would it sort it
> out, since you can't sort it out yourself?
I did not say I had no respect for law, just *laws*.
Some are useful, some are not.
I decide.
>>> Ah, no. The fire was going to destroy the TV, as was described. Either
>>> way, the store is going to lose the TV. Buit if you take it, you
>>> *gain* a TV you otherwise were not going to pay for. And this by you
>>> is *not* theft?
>> What do salvage laws state?
>
> Well, in Britain, you apparently have to turn it over to the
> government.
You have to notify the govt and the owners have the chance of buying it
back ie paying a "reward".
>>>> Information is fundamentally different from material possessions in that
>>>> its replication is zero cost.
>>> Ah. So college is free, then.
>> http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm
>
> What is obtained without effort or cost is not respected.
By some.
To others it is priceless.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
I never said I'm a socialist - you did.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> > Ah. Then how about the movie company that you are pirating?
>
> They have lost nothing, whether they know it or not.
....
> I am depriving them of something they had, but did not yet know of it. I
> am depriving them of future wealth.
Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Dirk.
> > What is obtained without effort or cost is not respected.
>
> By some.
> To others it is priceless.
You mean "without value." The things you work for have greater
meaning than equivalent items that simply fall into your lap. Well, at
least that's true for most people. Perhaps it's not true for
socialists. That would explain rather a lot.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > On Nov 15, 8:25 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Had you broken into my account and discovered how much I had, then no
> >> problem. Taking the money, OTOH, does deprive of a very material possession.
>
> > Come now, you're a good little socialist. Spread the wealth!
>
> I never said I'm a socialist
And a racist doesn't need to say he's a racist to be known as a
racist. It's apparent in his actions and his beliefs.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On Nov 16, 1:01 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> Ah. Then how about the movie company that you are pirating?
>> They have lost nothing, whether they know it or not.
> ....
>
>> I am depriving them of something they had, but did not yet know of it. I
>> am depriving them of future wealth.
>
>
> Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Dirk.
Selective editing - thy name is Scott.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > On Nov 16, 1:01 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>> Ah. Then how about the movie company that you are pirating?
> >> They have lost nothing, whether they know it or not.
> > ....
>
> >> I am depriving them of something they had, but did not yet know of it. I
> >> am depriving them of future wealth.
>
> > Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Dirk.
>
> Selective editing - thy name is Scott.
Selective only in that I pulled two separate quotes of yours regarding
the same subject... but displaying diametrically opposed beliefs on
your part. In both cases you are depriving an entity (a movie company
in one case, your government in the other) of something they did not
actually have, while in both cases you benefit from it.
Interesting that you choose to focus on "selective editing" rather
than actually attempting to debate your point. Since it seems that
your point is that it's ok to steal from a movie studio but not from
the government, that says much.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On Nov 16, 2:27 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>> On Nov 16, 1:01 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Ah. Then how about the movie company that you are pirating?
>>>> They have lost nothing, whether they know it or not.
>>> ....
>>>> I am depriving them of something they had, but did not yet know of it. I
>>>> am depriving them of future wealth.
>>> Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Dirk.
>> Selective editing - thy name is Scott.
>
> Selective only in that I pulled two separate quotes of yours regarding
> the same subject... but displaying diametrically opposed beliefs on
And totally separate contexts.
Stop cheating Scott.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > On Nov 16, 2:27 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >>> On Nov 16, 1:01 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>> Ah. Then how about the movie company that you are pirating?
> >>>> They have lost nothing, whether they know it or not.
> >>> ....
> >>>> I am depriving them of something they had, but did not yet know of it. I
> >>>> am depriving them of future wealth.
> >>> Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Dirk.
> >> Selective editing - thy name is Scott.
>
> > Selective only in that I pulled two separate quotes of yours regarding
> > the same subject... but displaying diametrically opposed beliefs on
>
> And totally separate contexts
ERRRR. Wrong. Both involve you - a hypothetical "you" - taking
something that does not belong to you. Both involve you profiting in
some way from that, while the proper property owner is neither
directly harmed nor directly profited by your actions, but in both
cases you are depriving them of what they are due. The only *real*
difference is that you, like so many other today, see digital property
as not actually being property.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Are you really so stupid that you believe what you are writing, and have
failed to understand the point of my argument? I doubt whether Doug or
Robert have missed it.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
No. Perhaps you simply do not understand that you are stealing.
Insult me all you like, but it'll be theft regardless.
robert bowman
> Are you really so stupid that you believe what you are writing, and have
> failed to understand the point of my argument? I doubt whether Doug or
> Robert have missed it.
Yeah, but I come from a long line of land, women, and cattle thieves. Law
flows from the point of a spear, to paraphrase someone or other.
I'm a little more civilized, but I've reverse engineered enough stuff in my
life, with full corporate approval and encouragement, that you don't want
to leave your intellectual property unattended when I'm around.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
At least you're honest about being a thief. Dirk redefines theft to
fit his convenience. We're left to wonder if this is due to a troubled
conscience, or to a disconnection from reality.
Well, we can always hope that one day he'll work long and hard on a
book about Asatru, or a personal memoir, something like that... and
the week before it goes to press, someone leaks the text online for
everyone to read for free. With luck, the publishers will find out
they've been skunked, and will simply pull the plug on the project.
Huzzah! Everyone wins!
Doug Freyburger
>
> failed to understand the point of my argument? I doubt whether Doug or
> Robert have missed it.
Creating content benefits society. Distributing content benefits
society. Copyright laws add profit motive to creating content to give
incentive to content creators.
Before printing presses scribes and monks had to copy content by hand.
I figure when printing presses were invented there was a crisis in the
cheapening of content. Copyright laws were the resulting compromise.
Now digital copying has become cheaper still. It reduces the profit
motive of copyright laws. Some other compromise needs to be worked out.
But do most folks care about all of that? No. They take what's easy
and what's cheap. When vinyl records were available people listened to
a lot of radio becausze radio stations had bigger vinyl collections and
were cheaper. Now folks share digital content on-line.
I know that sharing content takes copyright income from the creators. I
also know that few care about the issue. I know that come other
compromise will be worked out. I make no pretext that my thoughts on
the matter are not strictly legal or moral.
The iTunes model of music subscriptions works. Something like that will
happen with movies. And I'm still not going to watch Michael Moore
movies in a system that charges for them. So far I haven't even checked
any out from the library. I saw one in the cinema and that was more
than enough.
On line audio content - librvox.org for public domain mp3.
On line text context - Project Gutenburg.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
I expect Scott will be ranting about libraries loaning books etc for free.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> I expect Scott will be ranting about libraries loaning books etc for free.
As usual, you expect inccorrectly. Libraries are legal functions,
that publishers are generally happy to deal with. I would be
*thrilled* is some libraries wanted to carry my little publications,
because they *pay.*
Can I expect you aslo don't have a problem with:
1) Sneaking into movie theaters
2) Sneaking into concerts
3) Sneaking into plays
4) Sneaking into conventions/symposia
5) Sneaking into museums
6) Or sneaking into any other event where you are expected to pay at
the door in order to recieve some information or audi/visual
entertainment
Here's the thing you don't seem to understand (which, along with your
repeated adoration of national socialism - especially the Chinese
variety - marks you as a socialist): if someone legally owns something
and they don't want you to have it, or don't want you to have it
without paying for it, then for you to come along and take it
anyway... that's theft. Even if it's arguable that you have not harmed
them by your copying, viewing, taking, whatever... you have still
violated their wishes.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
> Creating content benefits society. Distributing content benefits
> society. Copyright laws add profit motive to creating content to give
> incentive to content creators.
All true.
Stealign content does not benefit society. Stealing content is a
negative motivator.
> But do most folks care about all of that? No. They take what's easy
> and what's cheap.
Bingo.
When vinyl records were available people listened to
> a lot of radio becausze radio stations had bigger vinyl collections and
> were cheaper.
And yet people still bought records, because:
1) The audio quality was better than radio
2) the content could be played at-will
Musicians an record producers were still thrilled to have airtime for
their product, played for free over the airwaves. Free advertising.
This does not apply for pirated music, books or movies, since the
quality - especially in the first two - is identical to the legal
product.
> On line audio content - librvox.org for public domain mp3.
When i feel that I need to have a song, I go to Amazon and plunk down
my 89 cents for it.
> On line text context - Project Gutenburg.
Also Google Books.
robert bowman
> And yet people still bought records, because:
> 1) The audio quality was better than radio
> 2) the content could be played at-will
3) The radio stations didn't care for the Jefferson Airplane's "Up against
the wall, motherfucker" lyrics or some hysterical idiot thought 'Puff the
Magic Dragon' was a drug reference. 'One Toke Over the Line' escaped
censure because people like Lawrence Welk only heard the 'sweet jesus' part
and thought it was a spiritual.
I've many failing, but shoplifting isn't one of them. However, when I was in
high school I stole a copy of Southern and Hoffenberg's 'Candy' because the
bookstore wouldn't sell it to me. I wasn't alone; there were pirated
editions because the real one couldn't be purchased. i am proud to say that
I did not steal 'Steal This Book'.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On Nov 17, 5:08 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I expect Scott will be ranting about libraries loaning books etc for free.
>
> As usual, you expect inccorrectly. Libraries are legal functions,
> that publishers are generally happy to deal with. I would be
> *thrilled* is some libraries wanted to carry my little publications,
> because they *pay.*
But those who rip a DVD and post it on the net have also paid for the
DVD. How is that different from a library? In fact, now I think of it,
my local library loans DVDs...
robert bowman
> Well, we can always hope that one day he'll work long and hard on a
> book about Asatru, or a personal memoir, something like that... and
> the week before it goes to press, someone leaks the text online for
> everyone to read for free. With luck, the publishers will find out
> they've been skunked, and will simply pull the plug on the project.
> Huzzah! Everyone wins!
Or else the online exposure increases sales and everybody really wins. For
instance, I bought the DVD "Riding Solo to the Top of the World" because I
saw it for free at a Buddhist film festival. It was obscure enough that I
had to order it direct from the guy in India who had made it. While it does
have some Buddhist overtones, it is mostly about riding a Royal Enfield up
over the highest road pass in the world and up around the Disputed
Territories. I talked it up on some motorcycle lists, leading to more sales
and interest in his ongoing projects. Who won?
Admittedly, in the case of 2012, people watching the pirated edition
probably won't buy it, but who knows? It works both ways. I watched a Bjork
DVD from Netflix, and got to find out for almost free that she's too weird
for my tastes.
robert bowman
> 6) Or sneaking into any other event where you are expected to pay at
> the door in order to recieve some information or audi/visual
> entertainment
I didn't sneak in, but I walked into a gun show last spring where it wasn't
obvious that they were charging admission. I noticed the table on my way
out, but the show was pretty useless so I continued on my way out, paying
what I thought it was worth. otoh, there is sort of a homegrown museum
north of here that has the biggest assortment of unrelated and unorganized
mostly military shit I've ever seen. I paid twice the asking admission
because I enjoyed it and wanted to help keep the doors open. It's not
everyplace where you can see a WWII Harley with a transverse mounted v-twin
and shaft drive,
From the other angle, suppose you do pay to receive some audio/visual
entertainment and the performer is stoned or pissed off and does a crappy
job? Or doesn't show? That's more personal than a film where you can read
the reviews and decide if it's worth seeing.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > On Nov 17, 5:08 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> I expect Scott will be ranting about libraries loaning books etc for free.
>
> > As usual, you expect inccorrectly. Libraries are legal functions,
> > that publishers are generally happy to deal with. I would be
> > *thrilled* is some libraries wanted to carry my little publications,
> > because they *pay.*
>
> But those who rip a DVD and post it on the net have also paid for the
> DVD. How is that different from a library?
Really? Honestly? You honestly can't tell?
What was that word you used? Hmmm... oh, yes, "Stupid."
> In fact, now I think of it,
> my local library loans DVDs...
Yes, indeed. *Loans.* The patron has to take it back. The library, I
imagin, does not burn you a new DVD of the movie, or copy it to your
memory stick.
If the patron burns a copy of the DVD, the library is not at fault...
the patron is.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > Well, we can always hope that one day he'll work long and hard on a
> > book about Asatru, or a personal memoir, something like that... and
> > the week before it goes to press, someone leaks the text online for
> > everyone to read for free. With luck, the publishers will find out
> > they've been skunked, and will simply pull the plug on the project.
> > Huzzah! Everyone wins!
>
> Or else the online exposure increases sales and everybody really wins.
Sometimes that works, but usually not. Exposure in other media can do
the trick, though. A large number of the songs I've bought from Amazon
came to my attention via TV shows or movies.
For
> instance, I bought the DVD "Riding Solo to the Top of the World" because I
> saw it for free at a Buddhist film festival.
Yes... and when you walked away from the festival, you *didn;t* have
the movie saved onto a memory stick or some such. if you wanted to see
it again, you needed to find another source.
Here's a hint for Dirk: A film festival is not the same as a pirated
movie website.
> Admittedly, in the case of 2012, people watching the pirated edition
> probably won't buy it, but who knows? It works both ways. I watched a Bjork
> DVD from Netflix, and got to find out for almost free that she's too weird
> for my tastes.
When you upgrade to late 1990's technology, you can check out such
things on YouTube.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
> From the other angle, suppose you do pay to receive some audio/visual
> entertainment and the performer is stoned or pissed off and does a crappy
> job? Or doesn't show?
I've asked much the same about politicians. Can I get my money back
from the Obama administration?
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
I don't save on my computer movies I watch on the Net.
I go to a streaming site, watch and then switch off.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> On Nov 17, 7:26 pm, robert bowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>> Well, we can always hope that one day he'll work long and hard on a
>>> book about Asatru, or a personal memoir, something like that... and
>>> the week before it goes to press, someone leaks the text online for
>>> everyone to read for free. With luck, the publishers will find out
>>> they've been skunked, and will simply pull the plug on the project.
>>> Huzzah! Everyone wins!
>> Or else the online exposure increases sales and everybody really wins.
>
> Sometimes that works, but usually not. Exposure in other media can do
> the trick, though. A large number of the songs I've bought from Amazon
> came to my attention via TV shows or movies.
Pretty much all the music I have bought I have first listened to
(illegally) on the Net. In which case they have generally got sales they
never would have done had I not "pirated" the content first. Of course,
if the music is crap I do not go and buy. So their only losses have come
from being unable to con me with shit.
>> Admittedly, in the case of 2012, people watching the pirated edition
>> probably won't buy it, but who knows? It works both ways. I watched a Bjork
>> DVD from Netflix, and got to find out for almost free that she's too weird
>> for my tastes.
>
> When you upgrade to late 1990's technology, you can check out such
> things on YouTube.
I hope you don't do that Scott - just about everything there is uploaded
illegally.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> Pretty much all the music I have bought I have first listened to
> (illegally) on the Net. In which case they have generally got sales they
> never would have done had I not "pirated" the content first.
Wow, you're a *hero.*
> > When you upgrade to late 1990's technology, you can check out such
> > things on YouTube.
>
> I hope you don't do that Scott - just about everything there is uploaded
> illegally.
Really? All those cat videos are illegal?
robert bowman
> But those who rip a DVD and post it on the net have also paid for the
> DVD. How is that different from a library? In fact, now I think of it,
> my local library loans DVDs...
The local CD store had a well advertised deal where you could buy a CD, rip
it, and bring it back. They would pay half the original price and resell it
as used. Legal, but it was setting the RIAA's teeth on edge.
The newest plan is they will download the material you want, burn it, print
the artwork, and give it to you in a jewel case. I should have asked, but
it apparently only works for some. I was looking for a Black 47 CD, and
they had to order it in the traditional format.
I'd think more places would be doing that. They don't have to carry
inventory that doesn't move and can still field requests. This guy is fast
on his feet and has survived the transition from records to tapes to CDs to
electronic delivery. Sam Goody and one of the other nationwide stores bit
the bullet in this town a long time ago.
robert bowman
> Yes, indeed. *Loans.* The patron has to take it back. The library, I
> imagin, does not burn you a new DVD of the movie, or copy it to your
> memory stick.
mmmmm... My library, while it doesn't burn DVDs on demand, does have
conveniently situated copiers. In fact, they even have signs asking the
patrons who like to do crossword puzzles to please copy the damn thing
rather than leaving a half-assed attempt for the next person.
What may trouble you even more is the access terminals have USB ports so you
can copy to your thumbdrive. I'm not fond of them so I haven't
investigated, but I believe you can suck down the ebooks.
Then there is 'Cheap Date Night'. Not only do they screen slightly past
their prime Hollywood movies for free, but they provide the popcorn.
My wife was a librarian, and this whole issue has a long history. The only
thing thornier than copying is when the local puritans go on a porn kick
and a lot of the art books are technically as illegal as Hustler.
robert bowman
> When you upgrade to late 1990's technology, you can check out such
> things on YouTube.
That would require moving into town; no thanks. If I really want to watch
YouTube, I take the netbook to the library or Break Espresso and use their
Wifi.
That brings up another moral question worthy of a Jesuit. When I'm
traveling, I use the netbook for my email etc, usually at a motel that
offers WiFi. Once when I was at my brother's, who has a wired connection, I
opened the computer to check something on the DeLorme map. It found an
unsecured wireless and happily hooked up. I didn't go looking for it, but
took it as a serendiptuous find.
On a similar note, I stopped one morning for breakfast at some fast food
joint. I found out they weren't open, but their WiFi was, so I happily used
it. I would have been just as happy to be a paying customer and had a cup
of coffee with my mail, but I couldn't. Should I have not used their WiFi,
meant for customers, even though I really wanted to be a customer?
robert bowman
> Pretty much all the music I have bought I have first listened to
> (illegally) on the Net. In which case they have generally got sales they
> never would have done had I not "pirated" the content first. Of course,
> if the music is crap I do not go and buy. So their only losses have come
> from being unable to con me with shit.
It doesn't necessarily have to be crap. A lot of people enjoy Wilco. I can
tolerate them better than Widespread Panic, but they really don't fluff my
fur. The radio market in this area is fairly conservative so a lot of bands
never get airplay, and I have taken some flyers like Wilco that I wouldn't
have, had I heard a couple of cuts.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Hey! Moron! The context is commercial music and video.
robert bowman
> I've asked much the same about politicians. Can I get my money back
> from the Obama administration?
I even contributed to his campaign before I saw the talent he was
surrounding himself with. By November, I had a pretty good idea it was
going to go down like it has and went with Paul so don't blame me.
I'd really like to get my money back from that mistake I made in 2000.
Compassionate, small government conservative my bleeding ass.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> >>> When you upgrade to late 1990's technology, you can check out such
> >>> things on YouTube.
> >> I hope you don't do that Scott - just about everything there is uploaded
> >> illegally.
>
> > Really? All those cat videos are illegal?
>
> Hey! Moron!
Ah, there's Dirk.
> The context is commercial music and video.
The context was "YouTube." Which has far more than commercial music
and video. But specifically mentioned was Bjork. And one can watch
Bjorks *official* videos on YouTube, which she and/or her recordign
company uploaded for free viewing: http://www.youtube.com/user/bjorkdotcom?blend=1&ob=4
So. Quit whining like a little bitch and go back to stealing other
peoples intellectual property. That's a good lil' Dirk.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > Yes, indeed. *Loans.* The patron has to take it back. The library, I
> > imagin, does not burn you a new DVD of the movie, or copy it to your
> > memory stick.
>
> mmmmm... My library, while it doesn't burn DVDs on demand, does have
> conveniently situated copiers.
Indeed, most libraries do. And all library photocopiers that I can
recall had copyright notices on them. Thus if you copy a copywritten
work, it's *you* that's being a Dirk, not the library.
> What may trouble you even more is the access terminals have USB ports so you
> can copy to your thumbdrive.
Why would that trouble me?
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>
> > But those who rip a DVD and post it on the net have also paid for the
> > DVD. How is that different from a library? In fact, now I think of it,
> > my local library loans DVDs...
>
> The local CD store had a well advertised deal where you could buy a CD, rip
> it, and bring it back. They would pay half the original price and resell it
> as used. Legal, but it was setting the RIAA's teeth on edge.
The *store* may be legal, but I think the customer is not.
> The newest plan is they will download the material you want, burn it, print
> the artwork, and give it to you in a jewel case. I should have asked, but
> it apparently only works for some. I was looking for a Black 47 CD, and
> they had to order it in the traditional format.
Sounds like they might have some sort of contractual agreement with
one or another recordign company. Which puts them in the clear.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
> I'd really like to get my money back from that mistake I made in 2000.
> Compassionate, small government conservative my bleeding ass.
Yup. He had way too fuckin' much of the compassionate (I wanted to
scream every time he started yammering forth about "the religion of
peace"), and nowhere near enough of the "small government."
Of course, he was a rampaging Randian compared to the dumbass who's
current inhabiting the Oval office.
Doug Freyburger
>
> That brings up another moral question worthy of a Jesuit. When I'm
> traveling, I use the netbook for my email etc, usually at a motel that
> offers WiFi. Once when I was at my brother's, who has a wired connection, I
> opened the computer to check something on the DeLorme map. It found an
> unsecured wireless and happily hooked up. I didn't go looking for it, but
> took it as a serendiptuous find.
>
> On a similar note, I stopped one morning for breakfast at some fast food
> joint. I found out they weren't open, but their WiFi was, so I happily used
> it. I would have been just as happy to be a paying customer and had a cup
> of coffee with my mail, but I couldn't. Should I have not used their WiFi,
> meant for customers, even though I really wanted to be a customer?
There are terms for this -
A Linus is someone who leaves their Wi Fi open on purpose in case
someone in the neighborhood has network problems. They then use the
open Wi Fis of others as a karmic exchange.
A Bill is someone who closes their Wi Fi to keep others from using it
for free. Bills who are fair about it seek out paid Wi Fi sites when
travelling.
The nicknames come from folks well known in the computing industry.
I've done it both ways. My work requires me to be a Bill when working
at home because the data needs to be encrypted for client privacy. At
times I've been a Bill and a Linus at the same time using two Wi Fis.
At other times I've used a dual hardwire plus radio home network.
How about this answer for your fast food joint - Leaving their Wi Fi
open when they aren't open for business is good advertising. It would
have been fair for you to mention their name as advertizing. Whether
that fair bit counts as good by the time you're as remote as a newsgroup
is much harder to judge.
Doug Freyburger
>
> .... otoh, there is sort of a homegrown museum
> north of here that has the biggest assortment of unrelated and unorganized
> mostly military shit I've ever seen. I paid twice the asking admission
> because I enjoyed it and wanted to help keep the doors open.
I do this with some regularity.
> From the other angle, suppose you do pay to receive some audio/visual
> entertainment and the performer is stoned or pissed off and does a crappy
> job? Or doesn't show? That's more personal than a film where you can read
> the reviews and decide if it's worth seeing.
It happens with warm up bands at rock concerts. The usual plan it to
hope the top line band makes the experience worth it. Talk up warm up
bands that were good, talk down warm up bands that sucked.
I remember a warm up band that I'd never heard of before. They were a
warm up band for the Rolling Stones and they were so good they blew away
the performance of the Rolling Stones. I raved about them for a while.
Lots of rock music fans have since heard of this once obscure warm up
band - Journey.
I remember a warm up band that was so bad the crowd chanted telling them
to go away. "UK, go away".
But sometimes the top line or dual top line band blows. Not much to do
but avoid them after that. I remember Guns and Roses was terrible. At
least they shared the top line with the Rolling Stones. The Rolling
Stones sounded a lot better that time. No idea if they were just better
that year or if it was because of the difference between excellent but
obscure Journey versus the terrible but famous Guns and Roses.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
> On a similar note, I stopped one morning for breakfast at some fast food
> joint. I found out they weren't open, but their WiFi was, so I happily used
> it. I would have been just as happy to be a paying customer and had a cup
> of coffee with my mail, but I couldn't. Should I have not used their WiFi,
> meant for customers, even though I really wanted to be a customer?
Go for it. As with radio, TV, fireworks dispalys, bands in public
space and other broadcast media, if someone has an open, non-password-
protected network like that, then they are *inviting* it;s free use.
Only in a police state or somewhere where the basic concepts of ethics
have been turned on their heads would there be any sort of legal or
cultural sanction against the free use of that with is broadcast
without any sort of security.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Or indeed anything left unsecured?
robert bowman
> Of course, he was a rampaging Randian compared to the dumbass who's
> current inhabiting the Oval office.
I finally clawed my way through 'Atlas Shrugged' a couple of weeks ago. I'd
started to read it in high school after a little hottie wrote the Randian
pledge on the blackboard in English class. Ol' Ayn seems to having a minor
revival; I'd have to say some of her scenes are uncomfortably close to
current affairs.
robert bowman
> Or indeed anything left unsecured?
I was halfway home when I remembered I left my Sansa Fuze unsecured. I have
hopes of seeing it tomorrow morning although sometimes the cleaning staff
is rather diligent.
robert bowman
>> What may trouble you even more is the access terminals have USB ports so
>> you can copy to your thumbdrive.
>
> Why would that trouble me?
Aiding and abetting?
robert bowman
> The store may be legal, but I think the customer is not.
That gets into gray territory. Is ripping a CD to load the material onto a
portable mp3 player illegal? If I do so, do I have to retain possession of
the CD for as long as the digital copy exists? Can I resell a CD? Can I
give one away? If I purchase the tracks directly as mp3 downloads, can I
burn them to a CD? Can I copy them to a thumb drive for my car radio?
RIAA's favorite answer is "no", but that puts a lot of restrictions on
something I have paid for.
> Sounds like they might have some sort of contractual agreement with
> one or another recordign company. Which puts them in the clear.
Yes, what they are doing is aboveboard. I'd just hadn't seen it offered
before. It makes a great deal of sense, rather than shipping plastic around
the country, although with the current economic situation, it might lead to
hard questions about pricing. I'm still a little bitter that at the time
when CDs and cassettes overlapped, the higher cost of the CD was supposedly
for the better quality sound. However, the price never came down to match
the cost of production. If the endpoint seller is burning the material onto
a 10 cent CD, printing the artwork, and stuffing it into a 30 cent jewel
case, what's it really worth?
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
> scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > On Nov 17, 9:01 pm, robert bowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>
> >> On a similar note, I stopped one morning for breakfast at some fast food
> >> joint. I found out they weren't open, but their WiFi was, so I happily used
> >> it. I would have been just as happy to be a paying customer and had a cup
> >> of coffee with my mail, but I couldn't. Should I have not used their WiFi,
> >> meant for customers, even though I really wanted to be a customer?
>
> > Go for it. As with radio, TV, fireworks dispalys, bands in public
> > space and other broadcast media, if someone has an open, non-password-
> > protected network like that, then they are *inviting* it;s free use.
> > Only in a police state or somewhere where the basic concepts of ethics
> > have been turned on their heads would there be any sort of legal or
> > cultural sanction against the free use of that with is broadcast
> > without any sort of security.
>
> Or indeed anything left unsecured?
Depends on where it is. If you were to leave a book, say, on a
streetcorner, then someone coming along and taking is not
*necessarily* theft. If you move that book six feet and put it on
private property, even if within easy reach from the public sidewalk,
and someone takes it... that's *clearly* theft.
A respect for private property - a respect by both the People and the
Law - is a prerequisite for civilized society. I have no problem with
physical force being used to prevent theft of private goods from
private property, such as when the Korean store owners used AK-47s and
Uzis to defend their stores from looters durign the Rodney King riots.
While physical force is obviously not something that can be reasonably
done in defense of private digital data, such as movie prirates, if
the property owners work out some neato system that causes the pirates
computer to go insane and destroy itself, I see no problem there. The
only problem is that that sort of thing is basically impossible... it
won't take too long before the system screws up and mess up someone
else's system.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
Atlas Shrugged interests me. Not so much the book itself, but the two
extremes it seems to inspire in readers and critics. In general, one
is either a Die Hard Randian who sees this book as The New Bible, or
Rand is full of shit and should be ignored. The reality is, her
writing really kinda sucks. A 90+ page *speech?* Characters that on a
good day aspire to be even one-dimensional? Feh. On the other hand...
she saw the future. Her future is our present, and it looks like it's
going to suck every bit as much as she suggested. Except she didn't
foresee Muslim whackjobs throwing their two bits into the mix.
scottl...@ix.netcom.com
No more than arguing that a city road department aids and abetts bank
robbers with their getaway cars.
There are numerous perfectly valid, perfectly legal uses for USB ports
on public library computers.
robert bowman
> The reality is, her
> writing really kinda sucks. A 90+ page *speech?* Characters that on a
> good day aspire to be even one-dimensional?
She really needed an editor, but that wouldn't have fit her self image. The
little cult thing with the Brandens and so forth was also a bit strange.
When she decided she was a philosopher, that frosted the cake. Either she
was ignorant or chose to try to hide those she stole from. While she had
the New Deal in mind, the last 60 years have been little but a footnote on
it.