Re: ALL THOSE GODS
Pastor Frank
news:47FDEA71...@netvigator.com...
> Andrew wrote:
>> On 2008-04-08 21:01:22 +0100, "hank" <wm...@bellsouth.net> said:
>>
>> >>> When there is NO objective verifiable evidence for some things
>> >>> existence
>> >>> it is logical to assume it does no exist. The LACK of evidence is not
>> >>> evidence of some things existence.
>> >>> The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the
>> >>> opposite;
>> >>> that man created imaginary gods! (thousands of them!)
>> >>
>> >> ANOTHER Identity Bill?? Are you suffering from some kind of psychosis?
>> >> Are
>> >> you tired of being 'robert'? Who will you be next time? 'Mary'?
>> >> Or are you trying to pretend that there are lots of people who share
>> >> your
>> >> view by pretending to be lots of people?
>> >> You are a liar for atheism Bill. You are a dishonest fraud.
>> >
>> > Your dishonest claim just shows you have no answers to my post.
>>
>> What's to answer? Your logic is so faulty as to defy reason. You are
>> entirely right to say that lack of evidence is not evidence for the
>> existence of something; but neither is it evidence for its
>> non-existence. Lack of evidence is just that - NO evidence.
>
> If someone claims there is a god it is up to them to provide the evidence
> for
> it.
> As simple and as logical as that
>
>> And you have yet to suggest what would constitute evidence.
>
> Anything - verifiable, visible, real, worldly - true
>
Are you looking again for someone to prove your invisible divine sky
ogre to exist and be true? It doesn't, Bob. However, our Christian "God is
love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in Jesus Christ giving His
life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We therefore know our God and
have seen Him through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour. (Jesus in John
14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore can't see manifestations of
love and care in human beings, and to the death if need be, such as we see
in Jesus Christ. (Jesus in John 3:3)
Pastor Frank
> Andrew wrote:
>> On 2008-04-10 11:29:01 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com>
>> said:
>> > Andrew wrote:
>> >> On 2008-04-09 11:07:03 +0100, "hank" <wm...@bellsouth.net> said:
>> >>> "Andrew" <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote in message
>> >>> news:2008040908440575249-thecroft@macunlimitednet...
>> >>>> On 2008-04-08 21:01:22 +0100, "hank" <wm...@bellsouth.net> said:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>> When there is NO objective verifiable evidence for some things
>> >>>>>>> existence it
>> >>>>>>> is logical to assume it does no exist. The LACK of evidence is
>> >>>>>>> not
>> >>>>>>> evidence of some things existence.
>> >>>>>>> The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the
>> >>>>>>> opposite;
>> >>>>>>> that man created imaginary gods! (thousands of them!)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ANOTHER Identity Bill?? Are you suffering from some kind of
>> >>>>>> psychosis?
>> >>>>>> Are you tired of being 'robert'? Who will you be next time?
>> >>>>>> 'Mary'?
>> >>>>>> Or are you trying to pretend that there are lots of people who
>> >>>>>> share
>> >>>>>> your view by pretending to be lots of people?
>> >>>>>> You are a liar for atheism Bill. You are a dishonest fraud.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Your dishonest claim just shows you have no answers to my post.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What's to answer? Your logic is so faulty as to defy reason. You are
>> >>>> entirely right to say that lack of evidence is not evidence for the
>> >>>> existence of something; but neither is it evidence for its
>> >>>> non-existence.
>> >>>> Lack of evidence is just that - NO evidence.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> has been
>> >>>>> deleting my posts!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm sorry to hear that. Possibly someone regards you as a threat to
>> >>>> bandwidth. Or is it just paranoia?
>> >>>
>> >>> A typical ancient reaction. When you can't deal with the message,
>> >>> attack the
>> >>> messenger.
>> >>
>> >> I have no problem with the message. It's your usual lengthy blast of
>> >> opinion mixed with tendentious questions.
>> >
>> > Well I suggest - deal with them, one by one, in an open clear and
>> > unambiguous
>> > manner then Bill may go away
>>
>> I've tried that Bob. Doesn't work.
>
> Sorry Andrew. I just do not buy that, in fact I have read similar
> comments time
> and time again.
> Oblique references to the subject matter do not constitute a concise
> reply.
> This question of Bill's below has not yet been answered by anyone as far
> as I am
> aware. If it has been answered by you it would be a crushing blow to
> atheism and
> therefore I imagine, had you the answer you would be falling over yourself
> to post
> it....
> The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the
> opposite; that man created imaginary gods! (thousands of them!)
> to in
> the bible, bearing in mind there's nothing mentioned there about the
> Aborigines
> found today in Australia or the Indians that Europeans found on
> discovering the
> American Continent
>
>> Once you reply he can't be bothered
>> responding to one's responses.
>
> Want a bet that Bill would be delighted with a reply to that question
> above !
>
>> He just falls back on his "In your
>> OPINION" and other similar thoughtless rejoinders. Even when you
>> provide clear and obvious evidence that his posts are factually
>> incorrect, he can't be bothered changing them.
>
All this is only relevant if the term "god" means some created material
object someplace, invisible to the naked eye and not discernable any other
way. But that is not the only way to define the word "god", for our
Pastor Frank
> Andrew wrote:
>>
>> In Dumfries the Baptist Church is now holding services in the assembly
>> hall of the school I teach in because their church building is too
>> small for their congregation.
>
> Before that one holds any water you need to show how many chapels and
> churches in
> Dumphries were closed down in the last twenty years.
>
I bet the word "amalgamation" isn't in your vocabulary, Bob. Look it up!
Or is your atheism making you too cynical to expand your miniscule spiritual
horizon?
Pastor Frank
news:WB7Mj.31940$dT....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...> news:2008041216235575249-thecroft@macunlimitednet...
>> On 2008-04-12 13:11:02 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com>
>> said:
>>
>>>> Are you aware that there are churches in London that can't fit in all
>>>> the people who want to come and worship?
>>>>
>>>> Try here
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7321405.stm
>>>>
>>>> And here
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7321128.stm
>>>>
>>>> In Dumfries the Baptist Church is now holding services in the assembly
>>>> hall of the school I teach in because their church building is too
>>>> small for their congregation.
>>>
>>> Before that one holds any water you need to show how many chapels and
>>> churches in
>>> Dumphries were closed down in the last twenty years.
>>
>> Scotland. The various splits, and divisions of the 18th & 19th centuries,
>> followed by reunifications in the 20th meant that there were more
>> churches than the "should" have been in the first place.
>
> Like NONE!
"NONE" is YOUR church? What's so good about it? Tell us, and be
succinct!!!
Pastor Frank
> On 2008-04-12 13:06:01 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com> said:
>> Andrew wrote:
>>> On 2008-04-11 11:08:02 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com>
>>>
>>>>> I've tried that Bob. Doesn't work.
>>>> Sorry Andrew. I just do not buy that, in fact I have read similar
>>>> comments time
>>>> and time again.
>>>> Oblique references to the subject matter do not constitute a concise
>>>> reply.
>>>> This question of Bill's below has not yet been answered by anyone as
>>>> far as I am
>>>> aware. If it has been answered by you it would be a crushing blow to
>>>> atheism and
>>>> therefore I imagine, had you the answer you would be falling over
>>>> yourself to post
>>>> it....
>>
>
> No. I make no claims further than belief. I offer no certainty. Bill does.
>
Why? Because Bill believes he does, or is that your belief?
Pastor Frank
> On 2008-04-12 14:56:27 +0100, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> said:
>> "Andrew" <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote in message
>>> On 2008-04-12 13:11:02 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com>
>>>
>>>>> Are you aware that there are churches in London that can't fit in all
>>>>> the people who want to come and worship?
>>>>>
>>>>> Try here
>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7321405.stm
>>>>>
>>>>> And here
>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7321128.stm
>>>>>
>>>>> In Dumfries the Baptist Church is now holding services in the assembly
>>>>> hall of the school I teach in because their church building is too
>>>>> small for their congregation.
>>>>
>>>> Before that one holds any water you need to show how many chapels and
>>>> churches in
>>>> Dumphries were closed down in the last twenty years.
>>>
>>> That, though, is made more complicated by the history of the Church of
>>> Scotland. The various splits, and divisions of the 18th & 19th
>>> centuries,
>>> followed by reunifications in the 20th meant that there were more
>>> churches
>>> than the "should" have been in the first place.
>>
>> Like NONE!
>
> Union, you know. All fine adverts for the atheist way.
>
What is the "Atheist way"? let me help. See below
Pastor Frank
Preamble to: THE FRUITS OF MILITANT ATHEISM in the new USSR
By Brian Moynahan/The Faith: A History of Christianity/Doubleday,
NY/2002/pp. 670-674.
The unenlightened ego, with its drive to power and social control,
has been problematic both inside and outside of religion. The
preceding examples show the militant atheist ego at its murderous
worst. They also reveal that religionists are not the only people who
cower in the herd, as is shown by the Stalinists' pathetic recourse to
'atheist churches' such as the LEAGUE OF THE MILITANT GODLESS
and the Groups of THE GODLESS YOUTH, complete with 'hymns.'
= = = = = = = = = = = == = = == = = = = = = = == === = == =
A decree in January 1918... banned religious teaching in all
schools, colleges, and universities. All church buildings were taken
by the state... Church and monastic land was nationalized. No
compensation was offered for confiscated assets... Under the new
constitution, the clergy - together with capitalists, criminals, and
imbeciles - were deprived of the right to vote or hold state offices.
In practice this denied the clergy the right to food rations and their
children to education... the Orthodox Church was stripped of its legal
privileges, its land, and its source of income...
Calculated persecution returned after the Bolshevik victory in
1921. Lenin sanctioned terror as a form of pesticide to be used on
people whom he dehumanized as "harmful insects...scoundrel
fleas...bedbugs"... Émigrés estimated that 1200 priests and 28
bishops had been killed by 1923, and thousands of others, with monks
and nuns, were deported.
On Easter Day, 1925, the foundation congress of THE LEAGUE OF THE
MILITANT GODLESS was held. Its duty was to eradicate religion through
propaganda, pressure, and ridicule...
The method that Stalin used to force the peasantry onto collective
farms was terror-famine, and the result was a holocaust. Boris
Pasternak, who made a trip to gather material on collectivization,
found himself dumb with horror. "What I saw could not be expressed in
words... There was such inhuman, unimaginable misery, such a terrible
disaster, that it began to seem almost abstract, it would not fit
within the bounds of consciousness." Grain was confiscated from
starving families to gain hard currency for Stalin's industrialization
program... It is probable that fourteen million peasants died...
Communist activists led the grain searches, shot hoarders, and
herded families onto deportation transports as a matter of dogma; they
were pitiless, for dogma demanded "no concessions to
rightist-deviationist attitudes" and "no pacifism."...
Terror, and scientific atheism, was also applied to the Church.
Stalin introduced a Law of religious Associations in 1929 that banned
churches from all work with children and young people. Churches were
not allowed to organize reading rooms, libraries, excursions,
children's playgrounds, sewing groups, or bible readings; they could
not sponsor sanatoria or medical care; their priests were forbidden to
take part in any activity outside the immediate neighbourhood of the
"prayer building," the new name for "church." An attempt was made to
extinguish religion as a whole. The fury fell most harshly on the
Orthodox clergy, but thousands of other Christian priests, Baptists,
Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics,and mullahs and rabbis...were also
persecuted... some were shot, though most of those arrested suffered a
lingering death in the work camps of Siberia and the Arctic. Others
lived on the run...
Membership in THE LEAGUE OF THE MILITANT GODLESS reached five
million by 1935. Children between eight and fourteen were enrolled in
GROUPS OF GODLESS YOUTH before graduating to Komsomol, the League of
Communist Youth. Prizes were offered for the best "godless hymns" and
to children who denounced their parents for voicing anti-Party
sentiments... Only one in forty churches survived; the others were
smashed to rubble or turned into warehouses, offices, and museums.
The Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow was destroyed with
dynamite, although care was taken to do so in the dead of night. A
Palace of Soviets topped by a huge statue of Lenin was to be built in
its place, but the site had weak foundations and it was used for a
giant open-air swimming pool instead. No churches or meeting places
were permitted in the new industrial cities...
In statistical terms the Godless looked to have won. There were
163 Orthodox bishops in 1914, and by 1939 only four survived in
freedom; of the old body of clergy 51,105 clergy, the number still in
their parishes was in the hundreds... "Religion is like a nail,"
Yaroslavsky wearily admitted. "The harder you strike it, the deeper
it goes."
Stalin's role in the fortunes of the Russian Orthodox Church is
complex. Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in its near-
extinction: by 1939, active parishes numbered in the low hundreds
(down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been leveled, and tens
of thousands of priests, monks and nuns were persecuted and killed.
Over 100,000 were shot during the purges of 1937-38. During World
War II, however, the Church was allowed a revival as a patriotic
organization, after the NKVD had recruited the new metropolitan, the
first after the revolution, as a secret agent. Thousands of parishes
were reactivated, until a further round of suppression in Khrushchev's
time.
The Russian Orthodox Church Synod's recognition of the Soviet
government and of Stalin personally led to a schism with the Russian
Orthodox Church Outside Russia that remains not fully healed to the
present day.
Just days before Stalin's death, certain religious sects were outlawed
and persecuted. Many religions popular in the ethnic regions of the Soviet
Union, including the Roman Catholic Church, Uniats, Baptists, Islam,
Buddhism, Judaism, etc. underwent ordeals similar to the Orthodox churches
in other parts: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of
churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and
other religious buildings were razed.
This was the great secular humanistic experiment, a people without God
who would inaugerate a new age, were being human and humane would be
synonimous. It had the support of the entire intelligencia, and yet, ...the
end thereof was death and destruction on a massive scale.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = == =
> LEST WE FORGET: Atheists mass murdered over 100 million people
> in the last 83 years of the 20th century alone? You can find a
> most illuminating and interesting summary of historical mass murder
> at http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/.
> The combined killings done by Jews, Christians, and Moslems
> throughout history don't compare with the slaughter perpetrated
> by atheists in a single century.
Pastor Frank
> On 2008-04-13 04:38:01 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com> said:
>> benefits of
>> having something to pray to when the going gets tough.
>
> Especially when the atheist Jacobins, Stalinists and Maoists are hammering
> on the door to take him and his family off to the guillotine/labour camp/
> firing squad. All in the name of progress and the advance of "Reason".
>
>> Any psychiatrist will confirm, this ameliorates the mind and helps some
>> people
>> survive. The fact remains however, gods are fictitious; regardless of
>> the odd
>> benefit here and there that men may get from believing in them.
>
> So you say. I see you advance no evidence for your claim.
>
In the case of Bob's god, that "fictitious" invisible divine ogre in the
sky, behind them thar clouds, it's true. I have been telling Bob for years
that it doesn't exist, but Bob won't believe me. Bob wants evidence that it
doesn't exist.
But in our case it's not, for our Christian "God is love" (1 John
John Smith
"Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:5af39$48035f1b$d1d89a79$27...@PRIMUS.CA...
Spreading crap for christ again, Frank?
How many times must you be told the TRUTH (NO ONE WAS EVER KILLED FOR THE
CAUSE OF ATHEISM; but millions were killed for various RELIGIOUS causes -
INCLUDING christianity) before you get your head out of your psychotic,
lying sack of shit, asshole?
monkfish
bob young
Pastor Frank wrote:
.........no that was your great gramp's god, you know, the one you [oor
specimens have been forced to modify because of the steady march of scientific
progress' along with the steady decline in the number of people that are
pandering to imaginary gods.
bob young
............was not in the name of atheism.
ALL organisaations that might threaten their dictatorial stranglehold on power that the communists had were banned, including, relgions, associations, societies etc etc
They did nothing in the 'name' of atheism, much as you frightened insecure types would wish it so to be.
Now I suuggest you read up on The Inquisition; it went on burning people alive for nearly three hundred years, for the same reasons as given above, fear and insecurity, over what ? !! NOTHING !
Bob
hong kong
I should know I was here at the time
--
monkfish
bob young
Pastor Frank wrote:
There is no such thing; you sick individual.
Atheists simply reject gods.
There are no atheist nations, there's no atheist flag, no atheist theme songs,
no atheist creeds, no atheist temples, and no atheist hierarchy.....
........we are simply individuals
and all we do laugh out loud at so called intelligent humans that pander after
primitive gods.
Humanity stoops to those disgusting things you list below [and no doubt gloat
about]
Hitler did his share - his soldiers had on their uniforms the German for 'God
is with us'
Bob
Humanist Atheist
"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith.
We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement,
and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have
stamped it out."~ Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933
[seems to be a buddy of yours Frank]
"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations
for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient
world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for
its own doctrine."~Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded
only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and
summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest
not as a sufferer but as a fighter."~ Adolf hitler
>
>
> Pastor Frank
>
> Preamble to: THE FRUITS OF MILITANT ATHEISM in the new USSR
> By Brian Moynahan/The Faith: A History of Christianity/Doubleday,
> NY/2002/pp. 670-674.
>
> The unenlightened ego, with its drive to power and social control,
> has been problematic both inside and outside of religion. The
> preceding examples show the militant atheist ego at its murderous
> worst. They also reveal that religionists are not the only people who
> cower in the herd, as is shown by the Stalinists' pathetic recourse to
> 'atheist churches' such as the LEAGUE OF THE MILITANT GODLESS
> and the Groups of THE GODLESS YOUTH, complete with 'hymns.'
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = == = = == = = = = = = = == === = == =
>
> A decree in January 1918... banned religious teaching in all
> schools, colleges, and universities. All church buildings were taken
> by the state... Church and monastic land was nationalized. No
> compensation was offered for confiscated assets... Under the new
> constitution, the clergy - together with capitalists, criminals, and
> imbeciles - were deprived of the right to vote or hold state offices.
> In practice this denied the clergy the right to food rations and their
> children to education... the Orthodox Church was stripped of its legal
> privileges, its land, and its source of income...
> Calculated persecution returned after the Bolshevik victory in
> 1921. Lenin sanctioned terror as a form of pesticide to be used on
> people whom he dehumanized as "harmful insects...scoundrel
> fleas...bedbugs"... Ιmigrιs estimated that 1200 priests and 28
Pastor Frank
> Andrew wrote:
>> On 2008-04-13 04:38:01 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com>
>> said:
>> > benefits of
>> > having something to pray to when the going gets tough.
>>
>> Especially when the atheist Jacobins, Stalinists and Maoists are
>> hammering on the door to take him and his family off to the
>> guillotine/labour camp/ firing squad. All in the name of progress and
>> the advance of "Reason".
>
> below][
> Also note how you conveniently forget The Inquiisition - three hundred
> years of
> burning innocents alive [makes the firing squad almost human and there's
> nothing to
> show that any religionist was shot because of his beliefs] - the
> Stalinists are
> already gone in just fifty years ! And he, by the way was brought up in a
> Christian
> environment.
>> >
>> > Any psychiatrist will confirm, this ameliorates the mind and helps
>> > some people
>> > survive. The fact remains however, gods are fictitious; regardless of
>> > the odd
>> > benefit here and there that men may get from believing in them.
>>
>> So you say. I see you advance no evidence for your claim.
>
>
We know the below is right and evidenced. You have yet to produce
evidence, that Jesus commanded anyone's death. Therefore anyone killing in
the name of Christ is obviously an impostor and one of Satan's minions who
MUST lie and cannot do other than lie.
Pastor Frank
monkfish
> monkfish wrote:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution
>
> ............was not in the name of atheism.
>
> ALL organisaations that might threaten their dictatorial stranglehold on
> power that the communists had were banned, including, relgions,
> associations, societies etc etc
>
> They did nothing in the 'name' of atheism, much as you frightened
> insecure types would wish it so to be.
>
> Now I suuggest you read up on The Inquisition; it went on burning people
> alive for nearly three hundred years, for the same reasons as given
> above, fear and insecurity, over what ? !! NOTHING !
>
> Bob
> hong kong
>
> I should know I was here at the time
>
Communism is atheism.
--
monkfish
monkfish
If you don't understand that
Hitler just could not be a Christian,
you are not getting what it means
to be a real Christian.
If you don't understand that
communism is atheism,
you are not getting what it means
to be a real communist.
Not to worry.
For most people, it takes a lot
of time and education to be a Christian.
It does not have to be that way,
but that's the norm nowadays.
Just stick around long enough, please.
--
monkfish
Phobos
(in message <JOSdnfePOKjhM5nV...@ptd.net>):
> Communism is atheism.
It seeems you do not udnerstand that communism is basically a
political/economic system in which people do not believe in a God and atheism
is purely deals with the issue that there is no God which is not a
political/economic system.
Using your logic, then Hitler who was a Christian, means Nazism is
Christianity and Muslim terrorism is Islam. It is interesting that the God of
Abraham is the same God of Nazism and Muslim terrorism.
monkfish
You are mistaken.
Communism is atheistic.
Atheism is not communism.
Communist ethics is atheistic;
rather cruel, ruthless, scientific,
and godless.
Atheist ethics is not necessarily communistic.
Probably just humanistic, scientific,
and godless, of course.
Believe it or not,
I'm not making any value judgment yet.
What I'm trying to do is to compare
atheism as a worldview with Christianity.
Eventually; as atheists here are stuck
at the middle school level of debate.
--
monkfish
J666
In order for two people to have a discussion, they have to agree on the
definitions and connotations of the words they are using as there can be
different definitions and connotations of words. This is no different than
two computer programs having to speak the same language with the same meaning
of the their "words" in they are going to communicate with each other.
So, by defining Communism as atheism, then it follows that as you say, that
Nazism is Christianty and Muslim terrorism is Islam and so they are equally
good or bad. I would doubt many serious and believing Christians and Muslims
would agree.
J666
(in message <UrSdneGSmt41YJnV...@ptd.net>):
>>> Communism is atheism.
>
> Communism is atheistic.
> Atheism is not communism.
Since you did not give your usual and customary response, I will reply
Yes Communism is atheistic and atheism is not Communisn just as Nazis were
Christian and Christianity was not Nazism.
monkfish
You misunderstood.
I was intentionally emphatic
because you just don't listen.
What I meant to say is that
Communism is atheistic.
Start over.
--
monkfish
monkfish
Compared to Christianity,
atheism is a poor excuse of a worldview.
If you wanna criticize Christianity,
you better come up with a worldview
that is a little more mature and comprehensive.
Even communism is much better.
What is your frame of reference
to distinguish good from evil?
--
monkfish
J666
>You misunderstood.
> I was intentionally emphatic
> because you just don't listen.
What you said was "Communism is atheism" and the point of my comments were
about that statement.
> What I meant to say is that
> Communism is atheistic.
>
> Start over.
There is a big difference between what you meant to say and did say - we have
all done that and I commmend you for stating that - there are people who will
go to great lengths not to have to say that - I feel, as you did, the best is
to make a correction and move on.
I agree Communism is atheistic and therefore I have no reason to start over.
J666
(in message <-tKdnfzMka0niJjV...@ptd.net>):
> Compared to Christianity,
> atheism is a poor excuse of a worldview.
> If you wanna criticize Christianity,
> you better come up with a worldview
> that is a little more mature and comprehensive.
> Even communism is much better.
My comments were only about your statement "Communism is atheism" which you
later said was not what you meant - I'll leave it to others with whom you
were discussing the topic to continue
>
> What is your frame of reference
> to distinguish good from evil?
I have no desire to get into a discussion with your usual and customary types
of questions in which anything I say will just result in more of the same
questions.
I see you can make a point, and so if you want to make more points, I will be
happy to comment and give an opposing view and discuss what you say, but not
what you ask. I am not interested in playing Q&A.
Pastor Frank
>
> Atheism is not an organised group. Atheism is simply a state of mind,
> rejecting gods.
>
I reject all gods of your definition also. Does that make me an atheist?
And no, we atheist god rejecters are not an organised group also.
Pastor Frank
>
> specimens have been forced to modify because of the steady march of
> scientific
> progress' along with the steady decline in the number of people that are
> pandering to imaginary gods.
>
Pastor Frank
news:s7VMj.3148$XF3.2693@trnddc04...
an atheist was a requirement for becoming a member of the Communist party.
Pastor Frank
>
> ........we are simply individuals
> and all we do laugh out loud at so called intelligent humans that pander
> after
> primitive gods.
>
make us atheists?
Pastor Frank
news:0001HW.C42A56D2...@news-server.rgv.rr.com...
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:32:44 -0500, monkfish wrote
> (in message <JOSdnfePOKjhM5nV...@ptd.net>):
>>
>> Communism is atheism.
>
> It seeems you do not udnerstand that communism is basically a
> political/economic system in which people do not believe in a God and
> atheism
> is purely deals with the issue that there is no God which is not a
> political/economic system.
>
> Using your logic, then Hitler who was a Christian, means Nazism is
> Christianity and Muslim terrorism is Islam. It is interesting that the God
> of
> Abraham is the same God of Nazism and Muslim terrorism.
>
That's not interesting. What's interesting is that you should believe so
without any corroborating evidence, for that makes you a believer like the
rest of us. "The Great I AM is the God of Nazism and Islam" . LOL ...I
should think not!!!!
bob young
monkfish wrote:
It means a person is:
Possibly a brainwashed person from the cradle
Inwardly nervous
Immature
Insecure
A craver for power and influence over others
Simply a normal mammal - part of the evolutionary process, a mammal
demonstrating it's instinctive need to gather together in a group for safety
A real Christian believes in a god he never sees or hears from and to make
others fall in with his claims he makes up a devil as well.
Yes we all know what a real Christian is -
a nitwit, to put it mildly.
> If you don't understand that
> communism is atheism,
> you are not getting what it means
> to be a real communist.
>
> Not to worry.
> For most people, it takes a lot
> of time and education to be a Christian.
All it takes is a tad of hypnosis and a bundle of lies, mixed with
gullibility
>
> It does not have to be that way,
> but that's the norm nowadays.
>
> Just stick around long enough, please.
no thanks I plonked you before
>
>
> --
> monkfish
bob young
Pastor Frank wrote:
It is, of course, beyond your capabilites to understand that not all people
need to have religion.
Some prefer, intellect, common sense, clarity and above all - honesty.
monkfish
You don't have to have religion.
But you need to have a worldview.
You seem to have a specially poor one.
What does it mean to live a good life
in your deprived worldview called atheism?
Do you even have a standard for good and evil?
--
monkfish
Pastor Frank
A religion is something you strongly believe in, such as REALITY, SCIENCE,
ATHEISM and any such. All the other things you mention i.e. "intellect,
common sense, clarity and above all - honesty" are the purview and ideal of
just about every religion. None of which values the opposite traits.
Or do you have problems with ideals such as "honesty"?
Pastor Frank
news:-tKdnfzMka0niJjV...@ptd.net...
>
Atheism contains no worldview. Atheists have no choice but let the
current fashionable opinion decide what is good and what is evil, for EVERY
standard and its ideal of perfection, such as Jesus Christ, is religion.
Pastor Frank
news:0001HW.C42A84A9...@news-server.rgv.rr.com...
between good and evil. I.e. Jesus Christ proposes, that good actions are
rooted in love and care, not law, nor any other criteria.
Your lack of interest either means you are in the wrong NGs, or you are
an atheist who has no choice but rely on current fashionable opinion to
decide for him what is good and what is evil.
bob young
Pastor Frank wrote:
> "bob young" <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
> news:48058B10...@netvigator.com...
> > Pastor Frank wrote:
> >> "bob young" <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
> >> news:48042DC8...@netvigator.com...
> >> >
> >> > specimens have been forced to modify because of the steady march of
> >> > scientific
> >> > progress' along with the steady decline in the number of people that
> >> > are
> >> > pandering to imaginary gods.
> >>
> >> LOL is your religion Scientism?
> >
> > It is, of course, beyond your capabilites to understand that not all
> > people
> > need to have religion.
> > Some prefer, intellect, common sense, clarity and above all - honesty.
> >
> You seem to have problems with common English language definitions, Bob.
> A religion is something you strongly believe in, such as REALITY, SCIENCE,
I really do not know WHY I waste my time with you [I will certainly restict it
for my own sanity]
Oxford English
Reference Dictionary [2nd edition].
RELIGION The belief in a superhuman controlling power.
In a personal god or gods, entitled to obedience or worship.
A particular system of faith or worship.
Now take your snide nasty sick falshoods about my knowledge of common English
definitions and shove them up your stupid arse.
>
> ATHEISM and any such. All the other things you mention i.e. "intellect,
> common sense, clarity and above all - honesty" are the purview and ideal of
> just about every religion. None of which values the opposite traits.
> Or do you have problems with ideals such as "honesty"?
I do not, unlike you.
>
>
monkfish
>
> I really do not know WHY I waste my time with you [I will certainly
> restict it for my own sanity]
>
> Oxford English
> Reference Dictionary [2nd edition].
>
> RELIGION The belief in a superhuman controlling power. In a personal god
> or gods, entitled to obedience or worship. A particular system of faith
> or worship.
>
> Now take your snide nasty sick falshoods about my knowledge of common
> English definitions and shove them up your stupid arse.
>
Get a better dictionary.
Ever heard of Buddhism or Daoism?
--
monkfish
Pastor Frank
> Pastor Frank wrote:
>>
>> You seem to have problems with common English language definitions,
>> Bob.
>> A religion is something you strongly believe in, such as REALITY,
>> SCIENCE,
>
> I really do not know WHY I waste my time with you [I will certainly
> restict it
> for my own sanity]
>
> Oxford English
> Reference Dictionary [2nd edition].
> RELIGION The belief in a superhuman controlling power.
> In a personal god or gods, entitled to obedience or worship.
> A particular system of faith or worship.
>
Christ nor Paul subscribe to it. See below
Pastor Frank
The word "God" is not a proper name but a title of a position of
whatever is your standard of virtue and ideal of perfection against
which you measure all behaviour. (Jesus in Matthew. 5:48)
I.e. In 2 Corinthians 4:4, Paul says that Satan is: "...the god (theos)
of this world", i.e. reality. And again in Philippians 3:19, Paul says
there are people: "...whose God (theos) is their belly", i.e. gratification,
pleasure. Also, Jesus speaks of mammon being a god or devil,
representing the greed for possessions, money and power. (Mt:6:24:)
Jesus tells us in Jn:4:24 that His "GOD IS A SPIRIT", (i.e. akin to a
quality of attitude, like love and care which imbues a person and animates
the flesh), and "they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
truth."
J666
(in message <48873$4807bd00$d1d89a4b$8...@PRIMUS.CA>):
> Obviously written by an atheist with an ulterior motive, for neither
> Christ nor Paul subscribe to it. See below
>
> Pastor Frank
>
> The word "God" is not a proper name but a title of a position of
> whatever is your standard of virtue and ideal of perfection against
> which you measure all behaviour. (Jesus in Matthew. 5:48)
> I.e. In 2 Corinthians 4:4, Paul says that Satan is: "...the god (theos)
> of this world", i.e. reality. And again in Philippians 3:19, Paul says
> there are people: "...whose God (theos) is their belly", i.e. gratification,
> pleasure. Also, Jesus speaks of mammon being a god or devil,
> representing the greed for possessions, money and power. (Mt:6:24:)
> Jesus tells us in Jn:4:24 that His "GOD IS A SPIRIT", (i.e. akin to a
> quality of attitude, like love and care which imbues a person and animates
> the flesh), and "they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
> truth."
You are defining everything based on the Bible, which is going to give
results consistent with that very same Bible, but there are many other
relgions who use different Books and their adherents will come to the
conclusion based on their Book and therefore cannot be used to convince
others who do not accept the specific Book - the Old Testament, New
Testament, Koran, etc
I am not sure if you really realize it - I hope you can confirm that you do.
monkfish
Quoting the Bible is his way of "doing ethics."
How do you "do your ethics"?
Case by case,
on a whim and according to your convenience?
--
monkfish
Pastor Frank
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:39:31 -0500, Pastor Frank wrote
> (in message <48873$4807bd00$d1d89a4b$8...@PRIMUS.CA>):
>>
>> Obviously written by an atheist with an ulterior motive, for neither
>> Christ nor Paul subscribe to it. See below
>> whatever is your standard of virtue and ideal of perfection against
>> which you measure all behaviour. (Jesus in Matthew. 5:48)
>> I.e. In 2 Corinthians 4:4, Paul says that Satan is: "...the god (theos)
>> of this world", i.e. reality. And again in Philippians 3:19, Paul says
>> there are people: "...whose God (theos) is their belly", i.e.
>> gratification,
>> pleasure. Also, Jesus speaks of mammon being a god or devil,
>> representing the greed for possessions, money and power. (Mt:6:24:)
>> Jesus tells us in Jn:4:24 that His "GOD IS A SPIRIT", (i.e. akin to a
>> quality of attitude, like love and care which imbues a person and
>> animates
>> the flesh), and "they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
>> truth."
>
> You are defining everything based on the Bible, which is going to give
> results consistent with that very same Bible, but there are many other
> relgions who use different Books and their adherents will come to the
> conclusion based on their Book and therefore cannot be used to convince
> others who do not accept the specific Book - the Old Testament, New
> Testament, Koran, etc
> I am not sure if you really realize it - I hope you can confirm that you
> do.
>
the Christian definition do you expect to see here? LOL Does this surprise
you? Or are you just an habitual complainer on automatic?
Pastor Frank
>
Bob was quoting from his special atheist dictionary, which prefers a
word to mean, whatever way it prefers it to be.
bob young
monkfish wrote:
I suppose you did not have the ability to read this part?
'A particular system of faith or worship.'
An apology is in order methinks
>
>
> --
> monkfish
monkfish
You don't know much about them, do you?
They both have very sophisticated forms
that have nothing to do with faith or worship.
Go look around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daoism
--
monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header
because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing
and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Pastor Frank
>
> Oh we will do it your way.......... atheism is a 'belief' that gods do not
> exist. It
> ends there, there is nothing more to it.
>
We already conceeded, that the gods of your definition do indeed not
exist, but I have a whole display cabinet full of existing gods, and you so
far have been too cheap to buy any.
If my gods are "trinkets" in your books, then what are YOUR gods? I bet
they are pure imagination, ...likely put there by your grand pappie who
thought god was some invisible creature up there behind them thar clouds.
However, our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully
manifested in Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of
Calvary. We therefore know our God and have seen Him through Jesus Christ,
our Lord and Saviour. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore can't see manifestations of
love and care in human beings, and to the death if need be, such as we see
in Jesus Christ. (Jesus in John 3:3)
Pastor Frank
> On 2008-04-20 02:53:01 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com> said:
>>
>> Oh we will do it your way.......... atheism is a 'belief' that gods do
>> not exist. It ends there, there is nothing more to it.
>> have to prove your god *does* exist]
>
> I don't think that follows. I've never claimed that what I believe is
> anything other than a belief.
>
That's just Bob's own personal greedy gambit, for he knows that our
Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and he still hopes some kind
Christian will "prove" his love to Bob, by giving him all his money.
Just ignore Bob.
Pastor Frank
>> >> judgement in the validity of a position without certainty.
>> >> It cannot be proved that there are no gods
>> >> therefore atheism is a belief
>> >
>> > Oh we will do it your way.......... atheism is a 'belief' that gods do
>> > not exist. It
>> > ends there, there is nothing more to it.
>> >
>> > [Oh yes there is one, having gone down that road, you are now going to
>> > have to prove
>> > your god *does* exist]
>>
>> I don't think that follows. I've never claimed that what I believe is
>> anything other than a belief.
>
>
Naturally, for atheists don't believe in anyone nor in anything. They
don't profess to believe in any principles and ideals, like moral and
ethical codes, nor put any belief into their near and dear ones, nor do they
believe in the value of money. But then atheists lie a lot don't they?
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Fred Jones
> "bob young" <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
> news:480C20B8...@netvigator.com...
>> Andrew wrote:
>>> On 2008-04-20 02:53:01 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com> said:
>>>
>>> >> "believe" - to hold something to be true without proof. To exercise
>>> >> judgement in the validity of a position without certainty.
>>> >> It cannot be proved that there are no gods
>>> >> therefore atheism is a belief
>>> >
>>> > Oh we will do it your way.......... atheism is a 'belief' that gods do
>>> > not exist. It
>>> > ends there, there is nothing more to it.
>>> >
>>> > [Oh yes there is one, having gone down that road, you are now going to
>>> > have to prove
>>> > your god *does* exist]
>>>
>>> I don't think that follows. I've never claimed that what I believe is
>>> anything other than a belief.
>>
>> OK
>>
> Naturally, for atheists don't believe in anyone nor in anything.
What birdie on your shoulder told you that?
>They don't profess to believe in any principles and ideals, like moral and
>ethical codes, nor put any belief into their near and dear ones, nor do they
>believe in the value of money. But then atheists lie a lot don't they?
Is Santa truth? How bout the easter bunny? The morals of the preist in the
cathilic church comes under question, all the way to the pope. The name Bakker
mean anything to you? McPherson, Frisbee, Jimmy Swaggart, Peter Popoff, Garner
Ted Armstrong. Herbert W Armstrong, Frank Houston, Douglas Goodman, Kent Hovind,
Ted Haggard..............the list is really much longer, but you should get the
point.
monkfish
So, you would rather worship Mammon?
How do you know money even exists?
bob young
Something you should know all about Frank.
Why do we need to lie? We have no agenda to preach, no
imaginary things to convince others to follow, no big daddy
in the sky to demonstrate.
Lying is the last thing atheists have to do, we prefer logic
and common sense; and when we use these then it is your
lot's turn to lie.
Don't bother denying it, as it is well demonstrated here on
a daily basis
bob young
It may come as a big surprise to you,
but there are human beings out there
who can live a perfectly decent lives
without worshipping anything
Worshipping comes from the realm of primitives
monkfish
I know.
There are some stupid people who worship themselves.
They just don't know what they are missing.
Even the Greeks knew all about such people with hubris.
Tragic, really.
So much potential wasted.
Get well soon.
bob young
Pastor Frank wrote:
>
> "bob young" <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
> news:480C20B8...@netvigator.com...
> > Andrew wrote:
> >> On 2008-04-20 02:53:01 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com>
> >> said:
> >>
> >> >> "believe" - to hold something to be true without proof. To exercise
> >> >> judgement in the validity of a position without certainty.
> >> >> It cannot be proved that there are no gods
> >> >> therefore atheism is a belief
> >> >
> >> > Oh we will do it your way.......... atheism is a 'belief' that gods do
> >> > not exist. It
> >> > ends there, there is nothing more to it.
> >> >
> >> > [Oh yes there is one, having gone down that road, you are now going to
> >> > have to prove
> >> > your god *does* exist]
> >>
> >> I don't think that follows. I've never claimed that what I believe is
> >> anything other than a belief.
> >
> > OK
> >
> Naturally, for atheists don't believe in anyone nor in anything. They
> don't profess to believe in any principles and ideals, like moral and
> ethical codes, nor put any belief into their near and dear ones, nor do they
> believe in the value of money. But then atheists lie a lot don't they?
You are a very sick person Frank and a chronic liar.
You must think you are a god to 'know' what billions of
people do and think,
right across this planet.
Fred Jones
Colossians 4:4
I peter 3:15
I know money exists because I have it.
monkfish
> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>> How do you know money even exists?
>>
> I know money exists because I have it.
Good for you.
How do you know what you have is the real money?
Fred Jones
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:02:33 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>
>> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>>> How do you know money even exists?
>>>
>> I know money exists because I have it.
>
>
> Good for you.
> How do you know what you have is the real money?
analogy. So don't go there. Besides, I've already answered those silly
questions. Keep up will yea.
bob young
monkfish wrote:
>
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:02:33 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>
> > "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> >> How do you know money even exists?
> >>
> > I know money exists because I have it.
>
> Good for you.
> How do you know what you have is the real money?
Because when I put some in the offering box the church
becomes richer and more powerful
monkfish
> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> news:g42dnZnoDMlJ65DV...@ptd.net...
>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:02:33 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>>
>>> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>>>> How do you know money even exists?
>>>>
>>> I know money exists because I have it.
>>
>>
>> Good for you.
>> How do you know what you have is the real money?
> Dude, your money fetish....err sorry analogy can not be used with your
> god analogy. So don't go there. Besides, I've already answered those
> silly questions. Keep up will yea.
>
What does it mean for you to say that
"I know money exist because I have it"?
To know you have it, you already need to know
that money does exist.
How do you know you have money?
You seem to think currency bills and coins are money.
Will they be useful as money to Robinson Crusoe?
Would you still say they are money for him?
Would it be safe to say that money does not exist
outside the human society?
If you find it unseemly to talk about money so much,
just pick any popular idol and figure out
what it means for such an idol to exist.
For atheist, I would like to suggest
the scientific method.
Do you know what it is?
Did we create it or find it?
monkfish
> monkfish wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:02:33 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>>
>> > "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>> >> How do you know money even exists?
>> >>
>> > I know money exists because I have it.
>>
>> Good for you.
>> How do you know what you have is the real money?
>
> Because when I put some in the offering box the church becomes richer
> and more powerful
>
If you can say that
money exists because you have it,
can they say that
God exists because they believe in it?
What does it mean for you to have money?
Can you have money in the bank?
How do you know you really have money in the bank?
Because you got the bank statement to prove it?
But isn't the statement written by humans?
Are we going to trust them completely?
Fred Jones
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:30:47 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>
>> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>> news:g42dnZnoDMlJ65DV...@ptd.net...
>>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:02:33 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>>>>> How do you know money even exists?
>>>>>
>>>> I know money exists because I have it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Good for you.
>>> How do you know what you have is the real money?
>> Dude, your money fetish....err sorry analogy can not be used with your
>> god analogy. So don't go there. Besides, I've already answered those
>> silly questions. Keep up will yea.
>>
>
>
> What does it mean for you to say that
> "I know money exist because I have it"?
> To know you have it, you already need to know
> that money does exist.
> How do you know you have money?
> You seem to think currency bills and coins are money.
> Will they be useful as money to Robinson Crusoe?
> Would you still say they are money for him?
> Would it be safe to say that money does not exist
> outside the human society?
>
"A lot of things, an idol, a god. A medium of exchange. The definition varies
according to whom you are asking, and in what context the question is in."
"It's been a long time since I've heard that one. LOL. I really didn't think you
were going that way. Money is like a weapon. The weapon by itself is nothing. It
has potential but in it's self can do nothing.The power comes from having it, it
in it's self is not power. Like the weapon money can be used. It can buy things.
It can build things.It is a tool to grow business. It is tangible. The more you
have the more you can control, that is the power. Being able to use it. You
want to drag a fictional god into the picture? You can believe in that god all
you want. Send it offerings. Bow down to it. Pray to it. The net result?
Nothing. You can not hold it. You can to spend it. You can not make it grow. It
is not tangible. It does not exist except in your mind. Because of that it has
no power. The only power of any kind of religious belief or any belief for that
matter is A) public acceptance B) force. Public acceptance, Santa clause. It's
unheard of for a small child not to believe in Santa. Is Santa real? No. Will
Santa ever be real? No. Santa is here only because of public acceptance. That
public acceptance goes away, so does Santa. Where is the power in that? Did Rome
conquer the known world at one time? It's beliefs and customs were forced on
it's conquered nations. Did it last? No.Where is Zeus now? Where is Ra? Where is
Mithras? Where is Anubis? Those are gods that people fell down and worshipped.
They built great buildings and cities in the names of there gods. Where is that
power now? You might say money can not last. Some form of exchange will always
be in existence, it always has. It may not be paper or metals. It can be grains,
oil, weapons or the exchange of services. No matter what still tangible. Still
real. Still something to hold."
"No it does that all by it self. What ever is considered of value at the time
humans will use it for transaction."
The idea of exchange for value "money" is real. Move on.
> If you find it unseemly to talk about money so much,
> just pick any popular idol and figure out
> what it means for such an idol to exist.
> For atheist, I would like to suggest
> the scientific method.
> Do you know what it is?
> Did we create it or find it?
>
See the analogy of money, or baseball, auto racing, porn, anything you want to
put in the place of the word money will end with the same net result. All can be
a god or idol. God and idol are one in the same. If you are weak in mind enough
to fall down and worship it, you then are a salve to that god. You can also come
to your senses and over come that drug habit.
monkfish
> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>
>> If you find it unseemly to talk about money so much, just pick any
>> popular idol and figure out what it means for such an idol to exist.
>> For atheist, I would like to suggest
>> the scientific method.
>> Do you know what it is?
>> Did we create it or find it?
>>
> See the analogy of money, or baseball, auto racing, porn, anything you
> want to put in the place of the word money will end with the same net
> result. All can be a god or idol. God and idol are one in the same. If
> you are weak in mind enough to fall down and worship it, you then are a
> salve to that god. You can also come to your senses and over come that
> drug habit.
You are equivocating.
We need to give simple answers to simple questions.
God and idols are not the same.
I even gave you the way to distinguish them.
If you are sure you know what it is,
then it's an idol.
Now tell me what God is and
also how sure you are about it, please.
J666
(in message <480DD262...@netvigator.com>):
> Because when I put some in the offering box the church
> becomes richer and more powerful
³A fool and his money are soon parted.² Thomas Tusser
Pastor Frank
the atheist expectations, and none who do. LOL
Pastor Frank
news:4_CdnThpB4Eg_5DV...@comcast.com...
object, not even one of your fantasy objects, but a principle and ideal, the
ideal of love and care ...to the death if need be, as demonstrated by Jesus
Christ. See below.
Btw way why are you listing the failures in class as examples of the
course content?
Pastor Frank
exist, and that no one belies it does? So why do you keep talking as if your
believe it might exist after all? You keep chanting the same atheist
mantras, no matter what anyone says, or even what the founding literature
says.
Pastor Frank
your perfect grand-child, not mumble primitive mantras.
Pastor Frank
better that way, so you won't convulse us with apoplectic laughter.
Pastor Frank
Well, by the same token I know gods exist, for I have a whole display
cabinet full of them, ..all for sale. Make me an offer!!!!!
Pastor Frank
> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> news:g42dnZnoDMlJ65DV...@ptd.net...
>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:02:33 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>>> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> How do you know money even exists?
>>>
>>> I know money exists because I have it.
>>
>> Good for you.
>> How do you know what you have is the real money?
>
> Dude, your money fetish....err sorry analogy can not be used with your god
> analogy. So don't go there. Besides, I've already answered those silly
> questions. Keep up will yea.
>
as in having faith the worthless printed piece of paper in their pocket has
value? Atheism is a religion alright with lots of beliefs, but mostly
disbeliefs.
Fred Jones
Not quite Frank. Yes the value very high is part of it, but the complete
definition goes farther.
Notice the first meaning? In a dictionary, that is the important one.
wor·ship Audio Help /ˈwɜrʃɪp/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[wur-ship] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun,
verb, -shiped, -ship·ing or (especially British) -shipped, -ship·ping.
–noun 1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any
object regarded as sacred.
2. formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended
worship this morning.
3. adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success.
4. the object of adoring reverence or regard.
5. (initial capital letter) British. a title of honor used in addressing
or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually
prec. by Your, His, or Her).
–verb (used with object) 6. to render religious reverence and homage to.
7. to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing).
–verb (used without object) 8. to render religious reverence and homage, as to a
deity.
9. to attend services of divine worship.
10. to feel an adoring reverence or regard.
bob young
i was addressing religionists in general not you. I know
you have avoided facing that issue with your 'god is love'
nonsense and your silly drawer full of gods.
bob young
So one has to ask. What was it that Moses had a chat with
on the top of that monutain?
.....or do you reject that story as well as the Our Father
Which art in Heaven' story Frank?
[stand by for more oblique drivel]
Fred Jones
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:16:32 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>
>> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>>
>>> If you find it unseemly to talk about money so much, just pick any
>>> popular idol and figure out what it means for such an idol to exist.
>>> For atheist, I would like to suggest
>>> the scientific method.
>>> Do you know what it is?
>>> Did we create it or find it?
>>>
>> See the analogy of money, or baseball, auto racing, porn, anything you
>> want to put in the place of the word money will end with the same net
>> result. All can be a god or idol. God and idol are one in the same. If
>> you are weak in mind enough to fall down and worship it, you then are a
>> salve to that god. You can also come to your senses and over come that
>> drug habit.
>
>
> You are equivocating.
> We need to give simple answers to simple questions.
>
an adventure of does this exist, if it does how do you know............
> God and idols are not the same.
> I even gave you the way to distinguish them.
> If you are sure you know what it is,
> then it's an idol.
>
> Now tell me what God is and
> also how sure you are about it, please.
>
God is a made up by people. Ra, Zeus your god, jesus, the list is long I'll stop
here. Now you want to know how I am sure of this. That book you call holy is
full of mistakes and contradictions. A perfect god would not allow such a thing,
because in that book it says it is perfect and it's written word is perfect.
Only a non perfect being ( humans ) would be able to be so arrogant to write a
book, call it perfect and not edit it so that it's believable. That book is
filled with copies, changed just a little, but copies of gods and events from
people predating by many, many years. See the jesus dying and coming back to
life thing? That the only way to eternal life thing? jesus does not hold that
market, there were many well before him.jesus is a lot like Microsoft, it did
not have the best operating system, or the best word processor, but it became
the largest supplier of software in the world. Why? Marketing was one,
questionable business practices another. The absorbing of it's competitors out
of existence, and some unethical practices to boot.Yup, good analogy of
christian growth history.
Fred Jones
have faith you know very little, have studied very little in the book you claim
came from god that you say you love and follow it's will. I have faith you do
not know what it's will is. See I know what the word means. Yes one of the
definitions is religious belief. The first definition of the word, which is the
most important definition is confidence or trust. So just substitute the word
faith in this post with confidence. In front of the word confidence? Put great.
Fred Jones
suit for copy write.
Fred Jones
Fred Jones
>not even one of your fantasy objects,
That would be?
>but a principle and ideal,
No not according to your bible, that by the way for a while you were so willing
to quote.
>the ideal of love and care ...to the death if need be, as demonstrated by Jesus
>Christ. See below.
I have great faith you will not go to your death for your belief.
> Btw way why are you listing the failures in class as examples of the course
> content?
Why do you care?
Pastor Frank
news:0001HW.C433928B...@news-server.rgv.rr.com...
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 7:01:02 -0500, bob young wrote
> (in message <480DD262...@netvigator.com>):
>>
>> Because when I put some in the offering box the church
>> becomes richer and more powerful
>
>
You should give you money to your broker and he will invest it in
Weapons Manufacturing, so the Military- Industrial complex will become
"richer and more powerful".
At least my church feeds the poor and helps those with all kinds of
problems, including loneliness and addictions.
"A fool and his money are soon parted" indeed!!!!!
Pastor Frank
> Pastor Frank wrote:
>>
>> How many times did I tell you, that the "big daddy in the sky"
>> doesn't
>> exist,
>
> i was addressing religionists in general not you. I know
> you have avoided facing that issue with your 'god is love'
> nonsense and your silly drawer full of gods.
>
your even sillier god, that invisible old ogre in the sky? I have indeed
"faced the issue" and I believe Christ and how He explains His God below.
You however are still suck in your infantile fantasy definitions.
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
The word "God" is not a proper name but a title of a position of
whatever is your standard of virtue and ideal of perfection against
which you measure all behaviour. (Jesus in Matthew. 5:48)
I.e. In 2 Corinthians 4:4, Paul says that Satan is: "...the god (theos)
of this world", i.e. reality. And again in Philippians 3:19, Paul says
there are people: "...whose God (theos) is their belly", i.e. gratification,
pleasure. Also, Jesus speaks of mammon being a god or devil,
representing the greed for possessions, money and power. (Mt:6:24:)
Jesus tells us in Jn:4:24 that His "GOD IS A SPIRIT", (i.e. akin to a
quality of attitude, like love and care which imbues a person and animates
the flesh), and "they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
truth."
Jesus explains further in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the
way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If
ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE
KNOW HIM AND HAVE SEEN HIM." Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the
Father, and it sufficeth us." Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long
time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME
HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words
that I speak unto you I speak not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN
ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom
of God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that LOVETH not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the LOVE that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in LOVE dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye LOVE one
another; as I have LOVED you, that ye also LOVE one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have LOVE one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye LOVE one another,
as I have LOVED you. Greater LOVE hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.
Heb:1:8: But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and
ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
J666
default
A church that actually uses it's wealth to "feed the poor?" That I
have to see.
When the pope sells off some gold or art or starts favoring cotton
vestments in place of the embroidered silk he craves, or fires a few
chefs and starts eating macaroni and cheese, then I may believe the
church gives a damn about the poor.
One might make a better argument that the church, with their dogma on
contraception and reproduction, cause many more poor than they help.
If the modern church helps someone today, they do it only for the PR
value.
If "Christians" actually believed in Christ they'd be personally
involved in housing and feeding the poor in their own homes - the ones
that had jobs that is.
--
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
default
> You should give you money to your broker and he will invest it in
>Weapons Manufacturing, so the Military- Industrial complex will become
>"richer and more powerful".
you have that right
The stock market has become a way to gamble and raise money if you're
savvy enough - it rewards the short term thinkers and leaves the
future to fend for itself.
J666
(in message <1208953224_494@isp.n>):
> A church that actually uses it's wealth to "feed the poor?" That I
> have to see.
"A chicken in every pot." Celestial Chicken as written in the Chible in
Pollo 32:48
J666
(in message <1208953557_496@isp.n>):
> it rewards the short term thinkers
Actually there are very successful value investors like Warren Buffett who
look for undervalued good stocks and buys for long term.
Fred Jones
> "J666" <j6...@jmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C433928B...@news-server.rgv.rr.com...
>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 7:01:02 -0500, bob young wrote
>> (in message <480DD262...@netvigator.com>):
>>>
>>> Because when I put some in the offering box the church
>>> becomes richer and more powerful
>>
>>
> You should give you money to your broker and he will invest it in Weapons
> Manufacturing, so the Military- Industrial complex will become "richer and
> more powerful".
> At least my church feeds the poor and helps those with all kinds of
> problems, including loneliness and addictions.
> "A fool and his money are soon parted" indeed!!!!!
>
me, yes an atheist, out strips what ever your congregation does. Why can I say
that? If your the stereo typical congregation your need to be in a charitable
mind set occurs around one maybe two times a year. Of course christmas, that
goes with out saying. And thanks giving day. Other wise yea the month long food
bank drive, but not much happening.
Fred Jones
"Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:119cf$480ef734$d1d89a41$18...@PRIMUS.CA...
> news:0001HW.C433928B...@news-server.rgv.rr.com...
>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 7:01:02 -0500, bob young wrote
>> (in message <480DD262...@netvigator.com>):
>>>
>>> Because when I put some in the offering box the church
>>> becomes richer and more powerful
>>
>>
> You should give you money to your broker and he will invest it in Weapons
> Manufacturing, so the Military- Industrial complex will become "richer and
> more powerful".
> At least my church feeds the poor and helps those with all kinds of
> problems, including loneliness and addictions.
> "A fool and his money are soon parted" indeed!!!!!
>
Here are six important statements about wealth from the Bible:
Matthew 6:19
Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy
and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in
heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in
and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Luke 14:33
Any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 6:24
No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the
other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot
serve God and Money.
Matthew 19:21
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give
to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Hebrews 13:5
Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have,
because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."
Phil 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider
others better than yourselves.
Acts 2:44-45
All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their
possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.
Now, the next time you go to church, look at the building. At any "normal"
church in America, the church building is an immense structure worth significant
amounts of money.
The contradiction is startling. No where in Jesus' teachings is it suggested
that Christians should buy land and build church buildings with indoor
basketball courts. No where does Jesus suggest the accumulation of billions of
dollars in gold bars. Chistians are supposed to sell everything and give the
money to the poor, according to Jesus. Yet church congregations do exactly the
opposite on a regular basis. Building a large sanctuary and indoor basketball
courts is an exercise in vanity, ego-boosting, selfishness and human pride.
These attributes are the opposite of Jesus' prescriptions and everyone knows it.
Fred Jones
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you
do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will
understand why I dismiss yours."
"monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:g42dnWbpDMl385DV...@ptd.net...
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:30:02 -0500, bob young wrote:
>
>> monkfish wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:00:30 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> > "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
>>> > news:7055f$480cd9df$d1d89a48$21...@PRIMUS.CA...
>>> >> "bob young" <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
>>> So, you would rather worship Mammon?
>>> How do you know money even exists?
>>
>> It may come as a big surprise to you, but there are human beings out
>> there
>> who can live a perfectly decent lives without worshipping anything
>>
>> Worshipping comes from the realm of primitives
>
>
> I know.
> There are some stupid people who worship themselves.
> They just don't know what they are missing.
> Even the Greeks knew all about such people with hubris.
> Tragic, really.
> So much potential wasted.
>
> Get well soon.
monkfish
Oh, dear.
You were trying to worship the Bible instead of God!
No wonder you are confused.
I repeat.
If you are sure you know what it is,
then it's an idol.
If you are sure that "God is a made up by people,"
then what you are talking about is not God.
God is not that easy to approach.
It would be better if we start with an idol
and see how that might help us understand better.
Instead of Microsoft, let's say IT is a king.
IT didn't actually create the kingdom.
But to claim the ownership of the whole territory,
IT might say that IT created the kingdom.
What does it mean for a king to have created his kingdom?
Of course, the kingdom was not there before the king.
But, all the people, houses, roads, and
other things were there already.
What does it mean for a king to create a kingdom.
Can he just proclaim the establishment of the kingdom?
How does he make people accept such proclamation?
By force?
By bribery?
By persuasion?
How did Zeus become a god?
Fred Jones
> I repeat.
> If you are sure you know what it is,
> then it's an idol.
> If you are sure that "God is a made up by people,"
> then what you are talking about is not God.
>
Exactly, Egyptian gods are not gods, you god is not god, Greek gods are not god,
they are all made up be people. Some used stone the etched the words of their
gods some you pen and paper. It's all the same. There is no god.
> God is not that easy to approach.
Whne something is not there you are right.
> It would be better if we start with an idol
Why, it's the same as a god concept.
> and see how that might help us understand better.
>
What to understand, both your god and the myth of jesus christ is an idol. god
and jesus christ are made up by people.
> Instead of Microsoft, let's say IT is a king.
> IT didn't actually create the kingdom.
> But to claim the ownership of the whole territory,
> IT might say that IT created the kingdom.
> What does it mean for a king to have created his kingdom?
> Of course, the kingdom was not there before the king.
> But, all the people, houses, roads, and
> other things were there already.
> What does it mean for a king to create a kingdom.
> Can he just proclaim the establishment of the kingdom?
> How does he make people accept such proclamation?
> By force?
> By bribery?
> By persuasion?
>
> How did Zeus become a god?
>
Same way your god did.
bob young
Pastor Frank wrote:
>
> "bob young" <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
> news:480EBA84...@netvigator.com...
> > Pastor Frank wrote:
> >>
> >> How many times did I tell you, that the "big daddy in the sky"
> >> doesn't
> >> exist,
> >
> > i was addressing religionists in general not you. I know
> > you have avoided facing that issue with your 'god is love'
> > nonsense and your silly drawer full of gods.
> >
> If my God, who is love is "silly", then why do you keep talking about
> your even sillier god, that invisible old ogre in the sky?
I am an atheist so I reject ALL gods, at least I will until
a religionist produces one, then I may reconsider.
You see I believe in honesty and factualism, should there be
such a word, but we both know what i mean don't we?
I have indeed
> "faced the issue" and I believe Christ and how He explains His God below.
> You however are still suck in your infantile fantasy definitions.
The 'Fantasy' my simple friend is the so called 'words of a
Jesus' since they are the work of men like yourself, men
anxious to jolly themselves and gain the admiration of
others, both now and in the distant past
Your fantasies don't work with atheists though, much to your
chagrin !
Pastor Frank
news:1208953224_494@isp.n...
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 04:24:10 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
> <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
>>"J666" <j6...@jmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:0001HW.C433928B...@news-server.rgv.rr.com...
>>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 7:01:02 -0500, bob young wrote
>>> (in message <480DD262...@netvigator.com>):
>>>>
>>>> Because when I put some in the offering box the church
>>>> becomes richer and more powerful
>>>
>>>
>> You should give you money to your broker and he will invest it in
>>Weapons Manufacturing, so the Military- Industrial complex will become
>>"richer and more powerful".
>> At least my church feeds the poor and helps those with all kinds of
>>problems, including loneliness and addictions.
>> "A fool and his money are soon parted" indeed!!!!!
>
> A church that actually uses it's wealth to "feed the poor?" That I
> have to see.
> When the pope sells off some gold or art or starts favoring cotton
> vestments in place of the embroidered silk he craves, or fires a few
> chefs and starts eating macaroni and cheese, then I may believe the
> church gives a damn about the poor.
> One might make a better argument that the church, with their dogma on
> contraception and reproduction, cause many more poor than they help.
> If the modern church helps someone today, they do it only for the PR
> value.
> If "Christians" actually believed in Christ they'd be personally
> involved in housing and feeding the poor in their own homes - the ones
> that had jobs that is.
> --
lawyers, doesn't mean the entire justice system is faulty and needs to be
discarded. Same applies to churches or any other organisations, yes even
atheist ones. Didn't Madam O'Hare abscond with atheist funds? There are
untold numbers of pastors living, sharing with and working for the poor in
the hinterlands, unsung heroes who often get killed for their efforts. You
are totally clueless, aren't you?
Pastor Frank
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 04:24:10 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
> <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
>>
>> You should give you money to your broker and he will invest it in
>>Weapons Manufacturing, so the Military- Industrial complex will become
>>"richer and more powerful".
>
> you have that right
> The stock market has become a way to gamble and raise money if you're
> savvy enough - it rewards the short term thinkers and leaves the
> future to fend for itself.
>
Please post your atheism to atheist NGs.
Pastor Frank
> "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
> news:119cf$480ef734$d1d89a41$18...@PRIMUS.CA...
>> "J666" <j6...@jmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:0001HW.C433928B...@news-server.rgv.rr.com...
>>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 7:01:02 -0500, bob young wrote
>>> (in message <480DD262...@netvigator.com>):
>>>>
>>>> Because when I put some in the offering box the church
>>>> becomes richer and more powerful
>>>
>>>
>> You should give you money to your broker and he will invest it in
>> Weapons Manufacturing, so the Military- Industrial complex will become
>> "richer and more powerful".
>> At least my church feeds the poor and helps those with all kinds of
>> problems, including loneliness and addictions.
>> "A fool and his money are soon parted" indeed!!!!!
>
> Frank, I'm willing to bet you that in a year my chartable gifts and
> services, by me, yes an atheist, out strips what ever your congregation
> does. Why can I say that? If your the stereo typical congregation your
> need to be in a charitable mind set occurs around one maybe two times a
> year. Of course christmas, that goes with out saying. And thanks giving
> day. Other wise yea the month long food bank drive, but not much
> happening.
like Jesus Christ makes no sense. My church tithes 15% of their income to
missionaries, plus have many other benevolent projects going. Sorry to hear
your congregation is inactive, or just doesn't live up to your expectations.
Are you sure your expectations are reasonable?
Pastor Frank
CHRIST'S SOCIAL GOSPEL
Jesus in Mat:25:31-46: When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all
the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.
And before him shall be gathered all nations, and he shall separate them one
from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall
set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of
my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the
world, for I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat, I was thirsty, and ye
gave me drink, I was a stranger, and ye took me in, naked, and ye clothed
me. I was sick, and ye visited me, I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an
hungered, and fed thee? Or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee
a stranger, and took thee in? Or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we
thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and
say unto them: Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one
of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand: Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, for I
was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat, I was thirsty, and ye gave me no
drink, I was a stranger, and ye took me not in, naked and ye clothed me not,
sick and in prison and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an
hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and
did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying: Verily I say
unto you, inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it
not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the
righteous into life eternal.
Jam 1:26-7 RSVA If any one thinks he is religious, and does not bridle
his tongue but deceives his heart, this man's religion is vain. Religion
that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit
orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from
the world.
Pastor Frank
Pastor Frank
>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:30:47 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>>> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>>>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:02:33 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>>>>> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you know what you have is the real money?
>>> Dude, your money fetish....err sorry analogy can not be used with your
>>> god analogy. So don't go there. Besides, I've already answered those
>>> silly questions. Keep up will yea.
>>
>> "I know money exist because I have it"?
>> To know you have it, you already need to know
>> that money does exist.
>> How do you know you have money?
>> You seem to think currency bills and coins are money.
>> Will they be useful as money to Robinson Crusoe?
>> Would you still say they are money for him?
>> Would it be safe to say that money does not exist
>> outside the human society?
>
> You must not be able to read and under stand...........................
> "A lot of things, an idol, a god. A medium of exchange. The definition
> varies
> according to whom you are asking, and in what context the question is in."
> "It's been a long time since I've heard that one. LOL. I really didn't
> think you
> were going that way. Money is like a weapon. The weapon by itself is
> nothing. It
> has potential but in it's self can do nothing.The power comes from having
> it, it
> in it's self is not power. Like the weapon money can be used. It can buy
> things.
> It can build things.It is a tool to grow business. It is tangible. The
> more you
> have the more you can control, that is the power. Being able to use it.
> You
> want to drag a fictional god into the picture? You can believe in that god
> all
> you want. Send it offerings. Bow down to it. Pray to it. The net result?
> Nothing. You can not hold it. You can to spend it. You can not make it
> grow. It
> is not tangible. It does not exist except in your mind. Because of that it
> has
> no power. The only power of any kind of religious belief or any belief for
> that
> matter is A) public acceptance B) force. Public acceptance, Santa clause.
> It's
> unheard of for a small child not to believe in Santa. Is Santa real? No.
> Will
> Santa ever be real? No. Santa is here only because of public acceptance.
> That
> public acceptance goes away, so does Santa. Where is the power in that?
> Did Rome
> conquer the known world at one time? It's beliefs and customs were forced
> on
> it's conquered nations. Did it last? No.Where is Zeus now? Where is Ra?
> Where is
> Mithras? Where is Anubis? Those are gods that people fell down and
> worshipped.
> They built great buildings and cities in the names of there gods. Where is
> that
> power now? You might say money can not last. Some form of exchange will
> always
> be in existence, it always has. It may not be paper or metals. It can be
> grains,
> oil, weapons or the exchange of services. No matter what still tangible.
> Still
> real. Still something to hold."
> "No it does that all by it self. What ever is considered of value at the
> time
> humans will use it for transaction."
> The idea of exchange for value "money" is real. Move on.
>
Atheists will go to ANY length not to admit, that money only has values
because of belief and faith, not because of any intrinsic value of the paper
and print. Yet belief and faith are anathema to atheists, ..words that
should not exist.
Pastor Frank
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:16:32 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
>> "monkfish" <monk...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>>>
>>> popular idol and figure out what it means for such an idol to exist.
>>> For atheist, I would like to suggest
>>> the scientific method.
>>> Do you know what it is?
>>> Did we create it or find it?
>>
>> See the analogy of money, or baseball, auto racing, porn, anything you
>> want to put in the place of the word money will end with the same net
>> result. All can be a god or idol. God and idol are one in the same. If
>> you are weak in mind enough to fall down and worship it, you then are a
>> salve to that god. You can also come to your senses and over come that
>> drug habit.
>
> You are equivocating.
> We need to give simple answers to simple questions.
> I even gave you the way to distinguish them.
> If you are sure you know what it is,
> then it's an idol.
> Now tell me what God is and
> also how sure you are about it, please.
>
created material entity, a creature which doesn't exist. All of atheism is
built upon that meaning. It's an infantile reaction to a non-existing
invisible ogre in the sky which was probably created by parents to improve
their child's behaviour through fear, ..not love, as per Jesus Christ, who
called His God "Abba", meaning Daddy.
However, our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully
monkfish
Wrong.
[quote]
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761552210_2/Mythology.html
The universal human practice of myth-making appears to be the earliest
means by which people interpreted the natural world and the society in
which they lived. Thus myth has been the dominant mode of human
reflection for the greater part of human history. Greek thinkers of the
6th century bc were the first people known to question the validity of
myth-making. In subsequent centuries the rationalism introduced by these
Greeks and the monotheism (belief in one God) of Judaism, Christianity,
and Islam all but replaced myth-making throughout much of the world.
[/quote]
J666
(in message <9a6b7$480e987b$d1d89a86$23...@PRIMUS.CA>):
> How many times did I tell you, that the "big daddy in the sky" doesn't
> exist, and that no one belies it does?
Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed by your ..........
monkfish
If you believe in money,
you really should believe in God.
Pastor Frank
> Pastor Frank wrote:
>> "bob young" <alasp...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
>> news:480EBA84...@netvigator.com...
>> > Pastor Frank wrote:
>> >>
>> >> How many times did I tell you, that the "big daddy in the sky"
>> >> doesn't exist,
>> >
>> > i was addressing religionists in general not you. I know
>> > you have avoided facing that issue with your 'god is love'
>> > nonsense and your silly drawer full of gods.
>>
>> If my God, who is love is "silly", then why do you keep talking about
>> your even sillier god, that invisible old ogre in the sky?
>
> I am an atheist so I reject ALL gods, at least I will until
> a religionist produces one, then I may reconsider.
> You see I believe in honesty and factualism, should there be
> such a word, but we both know what i mean don't we?
>
>> I have indeed
>> "faced the issue" and I believe Christ and how He explains His God below.
>> You however are still suck in your infantile fantasy definitions.
>
> The 'Fantasy' my simple friend is the so called 'words of a
> Jesus' since they are the work of men like yourself, men
> anxious to jolly themselves and gain the admiration of
> others, both now and in the distant past
> Your fantasies don't work with atheists though, much to your
> chagrin !
>
the holy and inerrant words of Jesus. It's YOUR claim, not mine.
monkfish
I'm not sure they were smart enough
to know where I'm going.
I think they were just too lazy
to answer my questions.
Now, they will be more reluctant
to answer my simple questions.