False Witness of Multiculturalism
michael burt
content of a multicultural education has evolved considerably over the
years. Today, it has a clear race-based political agenda, one that is
anticivic and anti-Western in its orientation, as examples from the
readers in later chapters will corroborate. Telling examples of its
anti-Western orientation can be found in the Śdistortion by omission˛ in
the first version of the National Standards for United States History (a
document setting forth what all students should know about U.S. history
from their course work in K-12). In a critique of this document, Sheldon
Stern, historian at the John F. Kennedy Library and Museum in Boston,
noted
1. the failure to include in the standard requiring understanding of the
characteristics of West African societies in the era of European contact
the knowledge that łAfrican rulers and chieftains had in fact been
enslaving and selling other Africans for centuries before the arrival of
Europeans,
2. the failure to note that łbeginning centuries before the Western slave
trace, mullions of Africans were forced northward into slavery by the
Muslim Arabs-in numbers possible comparable to those later taken to the
West in the trans-Atlantic slave trade, and
3. the failure to include in the standard on American Indian life and
culture the knowledge of their łwarlike and aggressive side˛ and the fact
that łmany tribes bought, sold, and owned slaves˛
Above from Losing Our Language: How Multicultural Classroom Instruction is
Undermining Our Childrenąs Ability to Read, Write, and Reason, S. Stotsky,
The Free Press, Page 7-8.
M Sternąs comments from łBeyond the Rhetoric: An Historianąs View of
National Standardsą for United States History, Journal of Education 176
(3) (1994); page 61-72.
--
May God Bless You,
Michael
Character Counts. It is not hypocritical to set a high goal and occasionally fail. It is hypocritical to set a low goal and occasionally succeed.
Glenn Wright
michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mikeburt-080...@pon-mi23-42.ix.netcom.com...
Real history requires working through many documents,
all of which are distorted in some way. You sound as
though you want to treat the U.S. history textbook the
way fundamentalists treat the Bible--as an exclusive,
self-interpreting fountain of all wisdom. The three examples
you give merely try to excuse an evil practice (slavery)
by saying, "They did it first."
And what, exactly, does this have to do with arc-rc??
michael burt
<gle...@alaska.net> wrote:
> michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:mikeburt-080...@pon-mi23-42.ix.netcom.com...
>
> Real history requires working through many documents,
> all of which are distorted in some way. You sound as
> though you want to treat the U.S. history textbook the
> way fundamentalists treat the Bible--as an exclusive,
> self-interpreting fountain of all wisdom. The three examples
> you give merely try to excuse an evil practice (slavery)
> by saying, "They did it first."
No one condones slavery, that is not the point. The point is that
multicultural education has focused solely on the racist position that
Europeans have a problem. They ignor that the Constitution based upon the
Gospel of Jesus Christ set into motion the forces to end slavery, they
ignor the tireless efforts of Christian men and women who risked their
fortunes as abolutionists to end slavery, they ignor the sacrifice of a
great many white Christen men's blood to cover the sin of slavery, they
ignor that slavery came into being in the pagan world, not the Christian
world, and they ignor the sacrifices of Christian men and women who as
missionaries ended slavery in the last of its strongholds, Africa and
China.
Multicultural textbooks deceitfully treat slavery as a racist, sexist, and
anti-European practice. It is none of those, it is a satanic practice.
That has a great deal to do with these newsgroups, for the
multiculturalists are training our children that Christianity is
pro-slavery. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Although all Christians are sinners striving to live in God's Word,
Christianity is not sinful.
There is no excuse for slavery; there is no excuse for the racism, sexism
and anti-Christian underpinnings of multiculturalism.
ĄEl Brujo!
burt) wrote:
>In article <92899986...@news.remarQ.com>, "Glenn Wright"
><gle...@alaska.net> wrote:
>
>> michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:mikeburt-080...@pon-mi23-42.ix.netcom.com...
>>
>> Real history requires working through many documents,
>> all of which are distorted in some way. You sound as
>> though you want to treat the U.S. history textbook the
>> way fundamentalists treat the Bible--as an exclusive,
>> self-interpreting fountain of all wisdom. The three examples
>> you give merely try to excuse an evil practice (slavery)
>> by saying, "They did it first."
Ya know, Mikey, if I thought you were one bit concerned about actually
educating children, I could support part of your premise. However,
it's rather obvious that your only concern is getting your
crypto-racist religionist garbage taught as "truth".
>No one condones slavery, that is not the point. The point is that
>multicultural education has focused solely on the racist position that
>Europeans have a problem.
_Some_ Europeans DO have a problem. _Some_ Africans have a problem.
_Some_ Asians have a problem.
> They ignor that the Constitution based upon the Gospel of
>Jesus Christ
Where did you get this??? You don't believe this do you?
First Commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
The Bible is concerned with "Thou Shalt Not". The Constitution is
concerned with "The Gov't Shall Not".
I'd much rather children study the correlation between John Locke's
_Two Treatises of Government_ and the US Constitution than an imagined
correlation with the Bible. Even more relevant than the Bible is the
similarities between our Republican form of gov't and the Iriquois
Federation.
John Locke's _Two Treatises of Government_, written in 1690, was a
refutation of Robert Filmer's _Patriarcha_, which claimed that
absolute monarchy was a Biblical principle.
> set into motion the forces to end slavery, they
>ignor the tireless efforts of Christian men and women who risked their
>fortunes as abolutionists to end slavery, they ignor the sacrifice of a
>great many white Christen men's blood to cover the sin of slavery, they
>ignor that slavery came into being in the pagan world, not the Christian
>world, and they ignor the sacrifices of Christian men and women who as
>missionaries ended slavery in the last of its strongholds, Africa and
>China.
In other words, you're willing to lie to get your agenda into the
schools. As an earlier follow-up to your initial post stated, you're
arguing from a "they did it first" premise. That's not a very mature
foundation for a child's education.
The US was one of the last civilized nations to abolish the practice
of slavery. Canada abolished slavery in 1793, Britain outlawed slave
trading in 1807 and slavery in the British Empire was abolished in
1833. The United States was just following the rest of the world's
lead.
It's true that many churches helped in the fight against slavery, but
you have conveniently ignored the fact that many churches were in
favor of the practice, and even offered Biblical references which
supported slavery. (Exodus 21 contains all the rules regarding the
treatment of slaves)
>Multicultural textbooks deceitfully treat slavery as a racist, sexist, and
>anti-European practice.
You are truly one paranoid individual. Do you wear a tin-foil hat when
you type up this tripe?
>It is none of those, it is a satanic practice.
You might as well be calling the Bible "satanic". Not once in the
Bible is there a condemnation of slavery. I realize some people will
quote 2Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the
Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." But strangely enough, the
fastest way to get rid of "the Spirit of the Lord" is to bring in some
Christians.
>That has a great deal to do with these newsgroups, for the
>multiculturalists are training our children that Christianity is
>pro-slavery. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
I'd say the overwhelming majority of Christians today are
anti-slavery. But that doesn't mean the Bible is anti-slavery.
>Although all Christians are sinners striving to live in God's Word,
>Christianity is not sinful.
>
>There is no excuse for slavery; there is no excuse for the racism, sexism
>and anti-Christian underpinnings of multiculturalism.
Just as there is no excuse for the falsehoods you wish to instill in
the minds of children.
Promoting an ideology at the expense of a child's education is
inexcusable. It's quite obvious that your interest in not in the
Truth, but in poisoning children's minds with outright lies with
religionist propaganda.
michael burt
anti-male sexism, and anti-Christ encouragement of atheistic immorality.
This destructive force to the future of our culture, our nation, our
unity, our strength, our morality, our ethics, and our freedom is criminal
and obvious. Since it also promotes immoral sexual activity and the
spread and increased risk of STDšs, it is a hateful philosophy built on
racism, sexism, and mocking God; in short, it has become a religion
fitting the definition of religious belief, or more commonly, a set of
hateful religious beliefs amended to satanšs oldest and well attended
religion, atheism.
The proof of multiculturalismšs separation from God is evident in the
loneness of Eric Harris, under psychiatric care and perscription
administered drugs. On his website he wrote:
***My belief is that if I say something, it goes. I am the law. If you donź
like it, you die. If I donźt like you or I donźt like what you want me to
do, you die.***
(Columbine killer, Eric Harris, from his web site)
Well brainwashed by the religious beliefs of self esteem, Eric did not
have a problem with self esteem; Eric had a problem with separation from
God, and the fulfillment of imbalanced god like delusions straight from
the satanic Bible:
"Only if a persons own ego is sufficiently fulfilled, can he afford to be
kind and complimentary to others, without robbing himself of his
self-respect. We are a self-respecting, prideful people...we are
Satanists!"
The Satanic Bible
The Littleton school district did a good job of applying the gospel of the
satanic Bible in the education of Eric Harris, what they failed to do is
to encourage a relationship with our Father, in heaven. Eric never knew
His love.
michael burt
just do it, even if you miss something in class and any good intolerant
multicultural, teacher will demonize you.
For years, the godless said that if you donąt like the violence on TV,
donąt watch it.
For years, the godless have said that you donąt need to post the 10
Commandments on the wall of a school, They say Thou shalt not murder is
not an important message--apparently only the Christian God forbids it
since its posting would be met with some suspicision as something not so
good.
But after 40 years of mocking God, the separation from God is making
itself known. In the case of Columbine, using the same flawed 40 year
logic, we could reason, łIf you donąt like being shot at, donąt go to
school˛. Or, the politically correct position that men should give up
their guns so that no one will be shot. Good theory, bad consequence.
The flawed 40 year argument is tired, trite, and destructive. It is
murdering people in Littleton. The time for social engineering must end,
the time to encourage leading lives in the honor and virtue of American
culture must return. America is unique among nations because it was
founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we want to eliminate the
Littletons, we need to return to the Founding Fathers intent to encourage
Christianity, and stop encouraging the silence of His Name, and following
His Word. Scripture is clear on the consequences of continuing to rebell
against Godąs Word, Littleton is the proof.
We do not need irresponsible gun control, we need responsible social
engineering control.
Lu
have read on this thread that was worth the time spent reading. Thank you
for this message :-)
God Bless You
michael burt wrote in message ...
Mike Murphy
michael burt wrote in message ...
>For years, the godless said that if you want to pray to God at school,
>just do it, even if you miss something in class and any good intolerant
>multicultural, teacher will demonize you.
>
I don't know if I am following you- are you suggesting that if a student
prays, they will be degraded by a teacher who is not a god-fearing American?
>For years, the godless said that if you donąt like the violence on TV,
>donąt watch it.
I don't believe in God, but there seems to be a large correlation between tv
violence and violent behaviour in children. Of course, I think that it's
safe to say that this influence (among others) becomes more prevalent (for a
variety of reasons) in the absence of strong and appropriate parental
influence.
>
>For years, the godless have said that you donąt need to post the 10
>Commandments on the wall of a school, They say Thou shalt not murder is
>not an important message--apparently only the Christian God forbids it
>since its posting would be met with some suspicision as something not so
>good.
Where are you pulling this together from? Are you suggesting that if one
does not believe in God that one believes in killing by default? I submit
to you that this is entirely faulty and ethnocentric premise.
>
>>But after 40 years of mocking God, the separation from God is making
>itself known. In the case of Columbine, using the same flawed 40 year
>logic, we could reason, łIf you donąt like being shot at, donąt go to
>school˛.
I'm not so sure that what happened at Columbine can be attributed to a
separation from God, so much as too much violent television or video games,
ostracism from a desired peer group, and perhaps a lack of parental concern
or supervision.
Or, the politically correct position that men should give up
>their guns so that no one will be shot. Good theory, bad consequence.
Which would lead me to ask you- if you allow people to carry concealed
weapons, what is going to be the inevitable consequence- it won't be safer
streets, I guarantee you.
>The flawed 40 year argument is tired, trite, and destructive. It is
>murdering people in Littleton. The time for social engineering must end,
What is this term you are using, social engineering? What flawed 40 year
old argument?
>the time to encourage leading lives in the honor and virtue of American
>culture must return. America is unique among nations because it was
>founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
America was founded upon greed and materialism masquerading as the Gospel of
Jesus Christ. Just ask the dispossessed.
If we want to eliminate the
>Littletons, we need to return to the Founding Fathers intent to encourage
>Christianity, and stop encouraging the silence of His Name, and following
>His Word.
It's called religious freedom. If I want to believe that the earth is flat
and that the Man from Glad is God, then I can.
Scripture is clear on the consequences of continuing to rebell
>against Godąs Word, Littleton is the proof.
Littleton is merely one example of what can happen when emotionally
disturbed teens who are left to fester get their hands on guns. God has
little to do with this.
>
>We do not need irresponsible gun control, we need responsible social
>engineering control.
>
It never fails to amaze me how many people want to hang on to their guns
following incidents involving deaths due to firearms.
Paul Browning
about 10 times the number of murders per capita than they do. Their church
attendance is much lower than ours. Do you suppose there's any way that it
REALLY WAS THE EASY AVAILABILITY OF GUNS THAT KILLED THOSE KIDS IN
LITTLETON, KENTUCKY, ETC? I'd say it was. Give it up. We're not talking
about political correctness, we're talking about a society where a 13 year
old kid can buy a gun at a gun show and kill his next door neighbor.
michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mikeburt-110...@pon-mi23-12.ix.netcom.com...
> For years, the godless said that if you want to pray to God at school,
> just do it, even if you miss something in class and any good intolerant
> multicultural, teacher will demonize you.
>
> For years, the godless said that if you donąt like the violence on TV,
> donąt watch it.
>
> For years, the godless have said that you donąt need to post the 10
> Commandments on the wall of a school, They say Thou shalt not murder is
> not an important message--apparently only the Christian God forbids it
> since its posting would be met with some suspicision as something not so
> good.
>
>
> But after 40 years of mocking God, the separation from God is making
> itself known. In the case of Columbine, using the same flawed 40 year
> logic, we could reason, łIf you donąt like being shot at, donąt go to
> school˛. Or, the politically correct position that men should give up
> their guns so that no one will be shot. Good theory, bad consequence.
>
> The flawed 40 year argument is tired, trite, and destructive. It is
> murdering people in Littleton. The time for social engineering must end,
> the time to encourage leading lives in the honor and virtue of American
> culture must return. America is unique among nations because it was
> founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we want to eliminate the
> Littletons, we need to return to the Founding Fathers intent to encourage
> Christianity, and stop encouraging the silence of His Name, and following
> His Word. Scripture is clear on the consequences of continuing to rebell
> against Godąs Word, Littleton is the proof.
>
> We do not need irresponsible gun control, we need responsible social
> engineering control.
>
michael burt
On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:17:40 -0400, mike...@ix.netcom.com (michael
burt) wrote:
>In article <92899986...@news.remarQ.com>, "Glenn Wright"
><gle...@alaska.net> wrote:
>
>> michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:mikeburt-080...@pon-mi23-42.ix.netcom.com...
>>
>> Real history requires working through many documents,
>> all of which are distorted in some way. You sound as
>> though you want to treat the U.S. history textbook the
>> way fundamentalists treat the Bible--as an exclusive,
>> self-interpreting fountain of all wisdom. The three examples
>> you give merely try to excuse an evil practice (slavery)
>> by saying, "They did it first."
Ya know, Mikey, if I thought you were one bit concerned about actually
educating children, I could support part of your premise. However,
it's rather obvious that your only concern is getting your
crypto-racist religionist garbage taught as "truth".
I suggest that you read
Whoąs Afraid of the Religious Right by Don Feder (The answer is satan)
ACLU: the Deviląs Advocate: The Seduction of Civil Liberties in America by
F LaGard Smith (The ACLU is not what you think)
The Empty Church: The Suicide of Liberal Christianity by Thomas Reeves
(Rather than reforming the world in the Image of Christ, the church is
allowing the world to re-Image it, Scripture, and our Father in heaven
into another god, another religion)
Saving Childhood: Protecting our Children from the National Assault on
Innocence by Michael Medved and Diane Medved (Denied the truth of being
created in the Image of God, the humanist principles of self esteem is
being taught to our children. It isnąt working)
The End of Sanity: Social and Cultural Madness in America by Martin Gross
(weakening of Christian America by multiculturalism. Every culture gets
one vote, that leaves the majority victemized and oppressed by the
minority).
Out of Order: Arrogance, Corruption, and Incompetence on the Bench by Max
Boot (the court system has become stacked with liberal judges that are
re-imaging the Constitution against the will of the Congress,
Christianity, and the American people.)
The Age of Consent: The Rise of Relativism and the Corruption of Popular
Culture by Robert Knight (Summary of dysfunctional ideas corrupting
American culture away from the Gospel of Jesus Christ)
Liberty or Equality by Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn (How unbridled democracy
ultimately strangles freedom and explores the three good forms of
government-and the three bad. American used to have the best, but that
has been allowed to Śevolveą into one of the worst).
Dumbing Down our Kids by Charles Sykes (Schools concentrate on self-esteem
to replace God and are no longer educating children)
BeatingThe Unbeatable Foe by Dr. Frederick Schwartz (How Christians
defeated godless, Marxian communism, and how communism is trying to
revenge itself)
Body Count by William Bennett etc (How moral poverty in the absence of a
public God have removed any sense of right and wrong and replaced it with
complete but corrupt judgementalism-- tolerance to sin)
Twilight of Liberty by William Donohue (How the ACLU is turning America
into a godless zoo)
The New Absolutes by William D. Watkins (shows where Christian American
culture has been turned on its head in the last 6 years and subverted to
alien, hostile and destructive theologies)
Americans No More by Georgie Anne Geyer (Americaąs obsession with
individual rights has led a Christian nation to turmoil and a free people
into the enslavement of the censorship of free speech, religion, and
politics of Śpolitically correctnessą or politically censorship which is
edging itself into law)
Guns Donąt Kill People, Gun Control Does by John R. Lott, Jr. (Crime is
reduced with an armed public. NOTE: the disciples carried swords. Jesus
told Peter when to Śsheathą the sword, not to dispose of it.)
Homosexuality: A Freedom too Far by Robert Knight (Homoxexuality can not
make a society, nor keep it going for very long. Establishment of
Śunequalą Śrightsą for homosexuals may result in the end of freedom of
religion and persecution of those Christians of Godąs Word, as it was
written. How to address the built in ad hominen false witness attack that
moves an agrument away from the issue to the character of the objector.
Why the Śheteraphobicą had to invent the Śhomophobicą. The heteraphobic
plan no tolerance, freedom of speech, nor mercy in PC intolerance.)
The Character of Nations: How Politicics Makes and Breaks Prosperity,
Family, and Civility by Anthony Codevilla (Americaąs decades long
departure from its founding principles on the Gospel of Jesus Christ make
it a different nation that it was a generation ago-our children may not
want to live here a generation hence.)
The Unmaking of Americans: How Multiculturalism has undermined Americaąs
Assimilation Ethic by John Miller (The histoy of Americanization on
fundamental Christian American principles no longer is allowed to work,
and its not an accident)
The Tragedy of American Compassion by Marvin Olasky (Proofs that the
replacement of
Christianity with social Darwinism does not work. Too much charity
enslaves people to the state and destroys freedom, independence, and Godąs
promises. As American has become separated from God, the state has become
separated from the clear intent of the Founding Fathers, and the Gospel of
Jesus Christ and bogged down with the destructive concept that money
should be evenly distributed. Focusing on equal results rather than equal
opportunity, this encourages mediocrity and discourages industry ending in
state enslavement-the proven track record at the end of Marxism.)
No Liberty for License: The Forgotten Logic of the First Amendment by
Harvey Mansfield (The first amendment was to be the bulwark of the
Republic, it has become an agent of its destruction because it is used in
protecting pornography while sanctioning political correct or political
censored speech. The two principles should be reversed as they were
historically)
When Nations Die: America On the Brink: 10 Warning signs of a Culture in
Crisis by Jim Nelson Black (10 warning signs of a nation in
decline-America has them all including separation from God. PS, the UK
may have the same 10 problems).
Cloning the American Mind by BK Eakman (Behavioral psychologists have
teamed up with school testing companies to lead our children down a moral
sewer.)
Changing of the Gods: Feminism and the End of Traditional Religions by
Naomi Goldberg. (Feminists are cooking up Gotterdamerung. The feminist
movement in Western culture is engaged in the slow execution of Christ
and Yahweh...God is going to change...We women are going to bring an end
to God...We will change the world so much that He wonąt fit in anymore.
The Gotterdamerung agenda started in Genesis 3 by you know who, but thanks
to Naomi, we now have the gospel of the evil one clearly stated.)
Goddess Unmasked: The Rise of Neopagan Feminist Spirituality by PG Davis
(Its ancient pedigree and its promises of sexual justice and social
harmony are exposed as a ridiculous but dangerous sham. It has already
watered down the Gospel of Jesus Christ, its objective is to eliminate it
and what the game plan is)
Domestic Tranquility: A Brief Against Feminism by Gragalia (Beneath the
deception and false re-imaging of history that all men victemize and
oppress their daughters, mothers and wives and the stated hatred of males,
Gragalia exposes the real victem of feminism, hatred for women and
rejection of God and His unique blessings to women.)
The Long War Against God: The History and Impact of the Creation/Evolution
Conflict by Henry Morris (Evolution was the religion of ancient Babylon
and is satanąs attempt to take God out of creation. Wallace came to the
same conclusions as Darwin by *spiritual* means, but Darwin beat him to
the printing press. Karl Marx wanted to dedicate his book to Darwin, but
godless Marxian failures including the holocausts of estimates of up to
100 million Christians and Jews do not give Darwin enough credit for these
atrocities.)
What our Mothers Didnąt Tell Us: Why Happiness Eludes the Modern Woman by
D Crittenden (She argues that a generation of women has been misled:
taught to blame men and pursue independence at all costs. Happiness is
obtainable, Crittenden says, but only if women will free their minds from
outdated feminist slogans and habits of behaviour.)
You seem to advocate that we continue to educate our children with the
same flawed and hatefully anti-family religious values embodied in
homosexual-feminisist liberation socialism. More of the same will give us
more of the same--and a lot more Littletons.
>No one condones slavery, that is not the point. The point is that
>multicultural education has focused solely on the racist position that
>Europeans have a problem.
_Some_ Europeans DO have a problem. _Some_ Africans have a problem.
_Some_ Asians have a problem.
> They ignor that the Constitution based upon the Gospel of
>Jesus Christ
Where did you get this??? You don't believe this do you?
Absolutely, only those steeped in the liberation mythology of history
re-imaged would not.
Above all, the pure light of revelation has had an influence on mankind,
and increased the blessings of society. It is impossible to rightly govern
the world without God and the Bible.
George Washington
I have always said that a studious perusal of the sacred volume will make
better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands
Thomas Jefferson. (Mr. Jefferson as they call him at the University of
Virginia or Young Tom as they call him at William and Mary, would be
surprised to find that fatherhood has been politically censored out of
some new age Bibles today.)
The first and almost the only book deserving of universal attention is the
Bible. I speak as a man of the world.
John Quincy Adams
It [the Bible] is the rock on which our Republic rests.
Andrew Jackson
It was for the love of the truths of this great and good Book that our
fathers abandoned their native shores for the wilderness.
zachary Taylor
I am profitably engaged in reading the Bible. Take all of this Book that
you can by reason and the balance by faith, and you will live and die a
better man. It is the best book which God has given to man.
Abraham Lincoln.
Almost every man who has by his lifework added to the sum of human
achievement...has based his lifework largely upon the teachings of the
Bible.
Theodore Roosevelt.
A man has deprived himself of the best there is in the world who has
deprived himself of this [a knowledge of the Bible]
Woodrow Wilson
There is no other book so various as the Bible, nor one so full of
concentrated wisdom. Whether it be of law, business, morals, etc...he who
seeks for guidance ...may look inside its covers and find illumination
Herbert Hoover.
The Bible contains more philosophy that all the libraries that I have ever
seen; and such parts as I cannot reconcile with my little philosophy, I
postpone for future investigation
John Adams
To the influence of this Book, we are indebted for the progress made in
civilization, and to this we must look as our guide in the future.
Ulysses S Grant
The young must be taught, and they must be taught truly if the spring
waters of democracy are to be kept untainted...The influence of the
Scriptures in the early days of the Republic is plainly revealed in the
writing and thinking of the men who made the nation possible...They found
in the Scriptures that which shaped their course and determined their
actions
Franklin D Roosevelt
First Commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
The Bible is concerned with "Thou Shalt Not". The Constitution is
concerned with "The Gov't Shall Not".
I can even partially agree with you here. The Declaration of Independence
is somewhat comparable with the Dispensation of Grace:
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness....A
[Government] whose character is thus marked by every act which may define
a Tyrant, is unfit to be a ruler of a free people. ...with a firm
reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to
each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor. (Thomas
Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence.)
The Constitution is more comparable to the Dispensation of Law, limiting
the government from taking away the unalienable Rights granted by the
Creator.
I'd much rather children study the correlation between John Locke's
_Two Treatises of Government_ and the US Constitution than an imagined
correlation with the Bible. Even more relevant than the Bible is the
similarities between our Republican form of gov't and the Iriquois
Federation.
Hardly, American culture, that sought by all people in the world in image,
to feed them in hungar, to protect them in war is based upon the Gospel of
Jesus Christ. The Iroquois federation was a noble culture, but no where
near as noble as the American nation.
John Locke's _Two Treatises of Government_, written in 1690, was a
refutation of Robert Filmer's _Patriarcha_, which claimed that
absolute monarchy was a Biblical principle.
Absolute monarchy is not a Biblical principle, except for the Biblically
illiterate. God said not to take a king, the people rebelled against God
against His counsel, and His Word.
> set into motion the forces to end slavery, they
>ignor the tireless efforts of Christian men and women who risked their
>fortunes as abolutionists to end slavery, they ignor the sacrifice of a
>great many white Christen men's blood to cover the sin of slavery, they
>ignor that slavery came into being in the pagan world, not the Christian
>world, and they ignor the sacrifices of Christian men and women who as
>missionaries ended slavery in the last of its strongholds, Africa and
>China.
>In other words, you're willing to lie to get your agenda into the
>schools.
Where is the lie? Are you refusing to admit that a great many white
Christian men gave up their lives to make the most perfect nation ever on
the face of the earth evern more perfect? That would be like spitting on
their graves, and highly insulting to their families.
>As an earlier follow-up to your initial post stated, you're
>arguing from a "they did it first" premise. That's not a very mature
>foundation for a child's education.
Neither is separation from God. It leads to death, i.e. Littleton,
STDąs, and many others.
>The US was one of the last civilized nations to abolish the practice
>of slavery. Canada abolished slavery in 1793, Britain outlawed slave
>trading in 1807 and slavery in the British Empire was abolished in
>1833. The United States was just following the rest of the world's
>lead.
Hardly. How many cotton plantations were there in Canada and Britain?
Almost none. You are mixing apples and oranges. The federalist papers
document that it was the intent of the Founding Fathers to eliminate
slavery by 1803. Slavery was not eliminated in Africa and China until
after the Christian missionaries brought the Gospel of Jesus Christ there.
>It's true that many churches helped in the fight against slavery, but
>you have conveniently ignored the fact that many churches were in
>favor of the practice, and even offered Biblical references which
>supported slavery. (Exodus 21 contains all the rules regarding the
>treatment of slaves)
Because a church claims to be Christian, does not mean that it is teaching
Christianity.
Exodus 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and
in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
This is the horrible sin of slavery? The Hebrew word for servant, ebed,
is never trahslated as slave in the AV and Massoric text. You may be
referencing one of the new age versions of scripture based on the
Stuttguard manuscript. If so, your faith is not well placed. For a man
to sell himself into servanthood meant that he had nothing but starvation
ahead of him. It would be akin to selling onself into enslavement to
government entitlement today.
>>Multicultural textbooks deceitfully treat slavery as a racist, sexist, and
>>anti-European practice.
>You are truly one paranoid individual. Do you wear a tin-foil hat when
>you type up this tripe?
No need to. Such ad hominen atacks against my character only hurts my
feelings. My faith and character are too strong to have an impact, and
you have provided no evidence other than mantras and humanistic mythology.
>>It is none of those, it is a satanic practice.
>You might as well be calling the Bible "satanic". Not once in the
>Bible is there a condemnation of slavery.
This is a position of Biblical illiteracy, in my opinion. Re-read
Philemon. It does not say what you claim.
>I realize some people will
>quote 2Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the
>Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." But strangely enough, the
>fastest way to get rid of "the Spirit of the Lord" is to bring in some
>Christians.
The AV at 2 Corinthians 3:17 says: For our light affliction, which is but
for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of
glory;
I do not know what you are quoting. If we are talking about the same
verse, you are relying upon the faulty manuscripts adelph and b used by
the new age versions of the New Greek Text. I have not found them
reliable. God does indeed turn even evil into good.
>>That has a great deal to do with these newsgroups, for the
>>multiculturalists are training our children that Christianity is
>>pro-slavery. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
>I'd say the overwhelming majority of Christians today are
>anti-slavery. But that doesn't mean the Bible is anti-slavery.
Where is it pro-slavery?
>>Although all Christians are sinners striving to live in God's Word,
>>Christianity is not sinful.
>
>>There is no excuse for slavery; there is no excuse for the racism, sexism
>>and anti-Christian underpinnings of multiculturalism.
>Just as there is no excuse for the falsehoods you wish to instill in
>the minds of children.
Results of Littleton school district multiculturalism religious training:
***My belief is that if I say something, it goes. I am the law. If you donĽ
like it, you die. If I donĽt like you or I donĽt like what you want me to
do, you die.***
(Columbine killer, Eric Harris, from his web site)
The Gospel of satan and the Littleton school district self esteem
religious training
"Only if a persons own ego is sufficiently fulfilled, can he afford to be
kind and complimentary to others, without robbing himself of his
self-respect. We are a self-respecting, prideful people...we are
Satanists!"
The Satanic Bible
*******
The Gospel of Jesus Christ:
Philipians 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in
lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Results of religious beliefs upon which our Christian nation was founded:
Now I have given up on everything else--I have found it to be the only way
to really know Christ and to experience the might power that brought Him
back to life again, and to find out what it really means to suffer and to
die with Him.
(Cassie Bernall who when asked if she believed in God by Eric Harris
answered, *Yes, I believe in God* Why? asked the murderer, but before she
ccould answer, he murdered her. She wrote the above words the day before
she ascended into heaven.)
>Promoting an ideology at the expense of a child's education is
>inexcusable. It's quite obvious that your interest in not in the
>Truth, but in poisoning children's minds with outright lies with
>religionist propaganda.
What is poinining our childrenąs minds is separation from God which
produced Eric Harris; not the blessings Cassie Bernall found in eternal
life. To promote the same things that produced Littleton is a very
hateful and unloving position, in my opinion.
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you
this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served
that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in
whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness....A
[Government] whose character is thus marked by every act which may define
a Tyrant, is unfit to be a ruler of a free people. ...with a firm
reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to
each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor. (Thomas
Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence.)
michael burt
<dem...@fishnet.com> wrote:
> Amen! I had to respond to this as it seems to be one of the few messages I
> have read on this thread that was worth the time spent reading. Thank you
> for this message :-)
Thanks, and may God Bless you.
As Christians, we too often think that if no one is actually worshipping
satan, at least it is not too bad. But for satan to gain the soul, he
does not need the soul to worship satan; he only needs the soul to stop
worshiping God. The unfounded and untruthful allegations that God is a
murderer, Hitler is a Christian, all white people are racist, all men are
oppressive and victimizing of women, the desperate attempt to slander
Thomas Jefferson that he have had (but probably not) one low act which
equals Clintons highest achievement, immoral adultery in the oval office,
are all attempts to re-image history in the false and hateful image
purposefully intended to divide, demonize, demoralize, and destroy
American culture.
American culture has always been kind, generous, strong and unified, and
honorable. This is not a surprise for it is built on the Gospel of Jesus
Christ. Multiculturalism is the anti-theses of American culture. It is
built on hatred, divisive diversity, fraud, re-writing history from a
deluded and psychotic viewpoint, and enslavement to the state as
protector, provider, and saviour of the soul. The latter appears intended
when the culture starts to crumble, the state as saviour will save the
people from the Littletons created by the false teaching of multiple
truths, the self serving manufactured hatred embodied and encouraged by
the state for anti-white racism and anti-male sexism, and immorality
encouraged by the anti-Christ underpinnings of multiculturalism.
Socialistic societies do not need nor want families. They want all adults
to work and support the state, and the state to raise their children to
produce more workers to support the state. It is no wonder that there
family values are disappearing in our nation. They are not deteriorating,
they are being socially engineered away by the promotion of irresponsible
no fault divorce, abortion on demand, irresponsible and immoral sex,
encouragement of non family lifestyles, demonization of family lifestyles,
discouragement of women to be mothers and men to be fathers. Socaism want
taxpayers, not mothers and fathers. Hitler asked that the church and
state be separated and that the souls of Nazi Germany be left to him.
Following such advise is not good counsel.
Executive Order 25 may provide the multicultural means to place America
under multinational control when the full flowering of multicutlruralism
creates enough Littletons to create fear, panic, and irrational knee jerk
reactions such as irresponsible gun control laws, but no one can see
Executive Order 25 because it is confidential.
The fulfillment of multiculturalism can only result in enslavement to the
state and the elimination of freedom and the inalienable rights granted by
our Creator, in whom we place our trust as a nation and a culture, yet we
are punished by political correctness should we mention His Name in
public. Past is Karl Marx零 nightmare for the enslavement of people to
the state which resulted in the holocaust of 100 million Christians and
Jews and anyone else expressing a different political opinion,
multiculturalism零 nightmare, a kinder gentler socialism, is only
beginning. The end result will be identical.
Similarly, the distortion by omission mentioned by Sheldon Stern is equal
apparent in the use of the same tactics, also based upon Karl Marx零
inspiration, called Homosexual-Feminist Liberation Theology. Based upon
the false teachings of its advocates, it can only be determined that its
intention is to destroy the unity in the Body of Christ and the Gospel of
Jesus Christ as its multicultural religious teachings are doing in secular
life.
Distortion by omission, and exaggeration of the insignificant are two of
the most commonly used tools used by satan. As satan always is, these are
subtle and hard to argue. He used it before Eve in the Garden and Christ
in the wilderness.
Naomi Goldberg in Changing of the Gods: Feminism and the End of
Traditional Religions perhaps sums up the real interests of
multiculturalism and Homosexual-Feminist Liberation Theology when she
states.
Feminists are cooking up Gotterdamerung. The feminist movement in Western
culture is engaged in the slow execution of Christ and Yahweh...God is
going to change...We women are going to bring an end to God...We will
change the world so much that He won靖 fit in anymore.
The Gotterdamerung agenda started in Genesis 3 by you know who, but thanks
to Naomi, we now have the gospel of the evil one clearly stated.
Some lament that satan零 agenda is already so far progressed that morality
is lost, and we must resign ourselves to the consequences such as
Littleton that will follow. But I say that it is lost only if the moral
continue to remain silent and mis-apply Scripture that we are to turn the
other cheek to sin and accept it as equally acceptable to righteousness.
That is not what Christ calls us to do, and to do so expresses no love for
mankind.
Paul Duca
with white skin: beings without penises engineered solely to satisfy those He engineered with them: smaller and newer beings engineered to be the
depository of all rage the larger. older ones contain.
Paul
Heaven Overflows: with people living in refrigerator cartons and dumpster-diving for food...who made their Christian character count on
Earth.
michael burt
<ps...@home.com> wrote:
> What do you think is the difference between the US and the UK. We have
> about 10 times the number of murders per capita than they do. Their church
> attendance is much lower than ours. Do you suppose there's any way that it
> REALLY WAS THE EASY AVAILABILITY OF GUNS THAT KILLED THOSE KIDS IN
> LITTLETON, KENTUCKY, ETC? I'd say it was. Give it up. We're not talking
> about political correctness, we're talking about a society where a 13 year
> old kid can buy a gun at a gun show and kill his next door neighbor.
Your argument is flawed. If there were no guns, the Littleton murderers
would have used the bombs they brought. Guns are the sympton of the
problem. The Littleton murderers broke 9 gun laws, I doubt that they
would have cared if they had broken 10 instead. More iresponsible gun
control is like the Pharisees adding to the Word of God--that is called
legalism, and Jesus Christ rejected all of the Rabinical legalistic
additions. He affirmed the entire Old Testament including the Mosaic Law
to the last jot and tittle. That is all we need for law which clearly
includes
Thou Shalt Not Murder.
The means whether bombs or the guns is immaterial, One law covers all and
murder is a sin. Adding anything to Thou Shalt Not Murder constitutes
legalism and a loss of freedom.
The real problem that we need to address is a separation from God that
produced Eric Harris's hateful web site statement and the flawed concept
of entitlements which have replaced responsibility.
Taking away guns may sound good, but ask the unarmed Kosovars who could
not defend themselves against tyranny if they wished they had had more
guns.
Jesus Christ calls us never to be agressive in war, and until Kosovo, we
have not been, but He does not call for His people to be unarmed. We are
to give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, but the inalienable rights granted
by our Creator are not Caesar's to take.
Christ asked Peter to sheath his sword and use it responsibily; He did not
ask Peter to throw it away and become unarmed.
You also forget that in Pear, Mississippi, the assistant Principal
unlocked the gun in his office and greatly limited the extent of the
murders there. Responsible use of guns don't kill people, irresponsible
people and irresponsible gun control does.
Give it up. Only the godless wants America unarmed. Wonder why? Don't
count on them to give up their guns.
michael burt
trying to teach Johnny to read, write and do math, but in seizing control
of the schools and turning them into centers to promote the secular
experiments.
Even many of our Christian leaders have given up on the personal God and
joined hands with the godless. They take the gifts of hardworking,
Bible-believing local church menbers and use them to promote everything
from [sexually immoral lifestyles] to the government liberal social
agenda.
Now all these people are crying that we must do something [with respect to
Littleton]. The truth is that we have already done something, and
becauswe of what we have done for the past 40 years we have Littleton.
łWe want to change this, stop this madness.˛ they cry. But when
confronted about changing any of their ways, they balk.
They remind me of the drunk who wanted to change, to become sober. Bt he
didnąt want it to interfrere with his drinking. There was a time in this
counrty when the leaders had the same traditional Biblical values of the
people. But that has changed.
Unless we join hands and restore those values, there will be more and more
Littletons. This is one time when going backward is moving forward.
Above by Donald Wildmon, Journal June, 1999.
It is time to restore the American Constitutionally Limited Republic.
It is time to restore the Christian Scripturally Limited Theocracy.
michael burt
>In article <375eb440....@news.mundo.del.brujo.tx.mil>,
elb...@protong.org (ĄEl Brujo!) wrote:
> Here's another idea for an updated gospel movie. A horror version of
> the gospels!
>
> "There's only one thing wrong with Mary & Joseph's baby...
>
>
> ...IT'S ALIVE!!!"
At last you have found truth. Jesus Christ is alive. Godšs love for all
is longsuffering hoping that all come to repentance, but He does not wink
at sin, and He does not wait forever. For those who wait forever, their
judgement will indeed be a horror. For those who wait too long, how sad
they will be to see how few riches they have stored in heaven. Joyously
saved they may be, lacking in heavenly treasurers they may well also be.
Judgement is the time before Godšs throne in which we receive the riches
we have stored in heaven, and here that we discover the full consequences
of our sin, even when forgieven by the blood of Christ when sin is
repentant. It can be either joyous or horrible, the choice is up to the
person. What is right and wrong have been clearly communicated, so there
will be no surprise in a fair judgement.
JOY comes from serving
J esus first
O thers second
Y ourself last.
There is no joy is self esteem first, thinking of others second, and never
giving Christ a second thought. That spells YOJ, and where is the love in
that?
michael burt
different, and that they could expect a certain amount of razzing, if not
persecution, for being different, they learned to fear, even hate their
tormentors. Then, such is our human propensity to think good of
ourselves, they rejected the notion that they could hate anyone. łWe
donąt hate the straight guys,˛ they said. And they turned it around, and
settled on the notion that the straight guys hated them. They projected
their hatred on to the hetero world, and blamed the hetero world for
hating them
And they called this hatred homophobia? ...They were then, quite unable to
see a larger truth: that, in spite of the fact that a few of their more
insensitive childhood contemporaries did persecute them, the vast majority
of the straight world was mainly indifferent to homosexuals, and more than
willing to live and let live. But, at this point, the gay movement isnąt
satisfied with łlive and let live.˛ This is a serious mistake on the part
of the gay movement. Theyąre stretching their recently and rightfully
acquired freedoms, such as the freedom from persecution, too far, and
there could be a tragic backlash from the very individuals who have been
taken in by the propaganda--that łgay is good˛.
How have they been able to do this? Four ways.
1) Shame. Theyąve shamed people with charges that theyąve suffered from
łdiscrimination.˛ And people have been taken in by the semantic confusion
over the word łdiscrimination.˛ A good many newspapae editors, in fact,
have become very un discriminating in their rush to dismiss anyone who
says anything negative about the gay liberation movement as a łhomophobe.˛
2) Intimidation. Gay activists have succeeded in intimidating reporters
and editors with all manner of threats. Larry Kramer, the founder of a
gay activist group, once wrote to PBS Anchorman, Robin MacNeil, charging
that the MacNeil/Lehrer Newshour was pulling punches in its reporting on
AIDS and gay issues. Kramer sent copies of the letter to more than 50
journalists.
3) Ignorance. A good many people (not only news editors) simply do not
know what homosexuality is. And it seems that many of them donąt want to
know.
4) Mob psychology. Certain arbiters of culture have been able to drum in
the idea that łHey, theyąre only people.˛ But letąs look at some gay
history, to see what can happen to many wonderful people who get caught up
in asking for a freedom too far.
Dr. C Socarides, Homosexuality, A Freedom too Far, Adam Margrave Books,
1995, page 37-8
michael burt
now being taught in the schools and in the major media that homoesxuality
is just another legitimate lifestyle. People se this as a apart of a
specific breakdown of societyąs basic unit, the family. And that this
could only happen in a society that seem to have decided over the past 20
years, that dads were optional, single mothers were chic, and recreational
sex normal, even for children. For some people, passing out free condoms
in the school may have been the overriding symbol of the breakdown.
Youąre speaking of the religious right? NO! I am definatiely not speaking
about the religious right. Thatąs the cannard thatąs been sold to the
American people by the media; that the backlash against gays is nothing
more that a rear-guard action by a bunch of right wing nuts. The Reverand
Peter Gomes published a ;iecce on the Op-Ed page of The New Youk Times in
August 1992 that tried to lump all those opposing the lgitimation of the
homosexual lifestyle into three marginal categories: 1) neurotics, 2)
religious bigots, and 3) stupids.....I think there are many compassionate
and sensitive people of intellectual integrity who will not buy Gomesą
argumetns. They will still oppose the gay agenda-expecially when they see
what the gay and lesbian propaganda machine is doing to family values.
Dr. C Socarides, Homosexuality, A Freedom too Far, Adam Margrave Books,
1995, page 301.
The DataRat
"Do you suppose there's any way that it
REALLY WAS THE EASY AVAILABILITY
OF GUNS THAT KILLED THOSE KIDS IN
LITTLETON, KENTUCKY, ETC?"
You got a good point: Guns killed those
people in Littleton. The guns got up and
drove themselves to school. Guns walked to
the cafeteria. Then, the guns -on their own-
started shooting people. Next, the guns
walked to the library, and then the guns
picked out suitable victims ( like Christians ),
and shot more people.
Bad guns !
What we have here is the transference of
the evil of PEOPLE onto inanimate objects.
The Littleton killers weren't bad. They were
innocent bystanders to what "evil guns" did.
Let the Calvinist Rodent suggest that it wasn't
"evil guns" responsible, but -instead- evil murderers,
and people like you who want to transfer the blame
from killers to the tools they used.
The DataRat
Rick Hall
<37623B32...@home.com>...
Can anyone confirm or deny? I thought I heard that in Littleton more
people were killed by the bombs the kids used than by the guns.
Rick
The DataRat
"I thought I heard that in Littleton more
people were killed by the bombs the kids
used than by the guns."
Then, it's the bombs that are "evil".
Only when bombs are outlawed will
Americans be safe !
Bro. Rat DEMANDS that Congress
pass stringent legislation restricting the sale
of bombs at Bomb Shows.
( Actually, the bombs didn't kill many, if
any, of the victims. )
The DataRat
Rick Hall
<mikeburt-120...@pon-mi21-27.ix.netcom.com>...
> 3) Ignorance. A good many people (not only news editors) simply do not
> know.
I don't understand this point. I don't know what there is about
homosexuality that a wide range of people don't know. Which must lead me
to conclude that I don't know either. Homosexuality is sexual relations
between members of the same sex. What have I left out?
Rick
Vernon O
Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4Zi83.11228$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> What do you think is the difference between the US and the UK. We have
> about 10 times the number of murders per capita than they do. Their
church
it
> REALLY WAS THE EASY AVAILABILITY OF GUNS THAT KILLED THOSE KIDS IN
> about political correctness, we're talking about a society where a 13 year
> old kid can buy a gun at a gun show and kill his next door neighbor.
Lies don't help the situation.
Every single one of your statements is a flat out lie except church
attendance in England.
>
>
Mike Murphy
>
>As Christians, we too often think that if no one is actually worshipping
>satan, at least it is not too bad. But for satan to gain the soul, he
>does not need the soul to worship satan; he only needs the soul to stop
>worshiping God. The unfounded and untruthful allegations that God is a
>murderer, Hitler is a Christian, all white people are racist, all men are
>oppressive and victimizing of women, the desperate attempt to slander
What you are in effect doing is denying that there are many questions that
your religion does not answer, such as why do children die, if Hitler did
profess Christian beliefs, would he go to heaven, etc. As for men
victimizing women, you are treading in rough water minimizing the violence
that men do indeed do to women.
>Thomas Jefferson that he have had (but probably not) one low act which
>equals Clintons highest achievement, immoral adultery in the oval office,
>are all attempts to re-image history in the false and hateful image
>purposefully intended to divide, demonize, demoralize, and destroy
>American culture.
American culture, unless you stay inside all day, is sliding into the
shitter. Are you comfortable to sit there and preach morality and
patriotism while people are shooting each other in the inner cities? If you
think that passing out Bibles, Jack Chick tracts, and electing Newt Gingrich
or Pat Robertson president are the answers, you better guess again. You are
in denial, my friend- there are some very concrete problems (such as
violence) which demand concrete plans of action.
>
>American culture has always been kind, generous, strong and unified, and
>honorable. This is not a surprise for it is built on the Gospel of Jesus
>Christ. Multiculturalism is the anti-theses of American culture. It is
>built on hatred, divisive diversity, fraud, re-writing history from a
>deluded and psychotic viewpoint, and enslavement to the state as
>protector, provider, and saviour of the soul. The latter appears intended
>when the culture starts to crumble, the state as saviour will save the
>people from the Littletons created by the false teaching of multiple
>truths, the self serving manufactured hatred embodied and encouraged by
>the state for anti-white racism and anti-male sexism, and immorality
>encouraged by the anti-Christ underpinnings of multiculturalism.
I haven't got a clue about what you are rattling on about.
Multiculturalism? Are you talking about reverse racism? If so, this is the
result of years of racism towards blacks and other minorities. If I didn't
know any better, I would suggest that you might be a racist but are not
aware of it, perhaps.
>
>Socialistic societies do not need nor want families. They want all adults
>to work and support the state, and the state to raise their children to
>produce more workers to support the state. It is no wonder that there
>family values are disappearing in our nation. They are not deteriorating,
>they are being socially engineered away by the promotion of irresponsible
>no fault divorce, abortion on demand, irresponsible and immoral sex,
>encouragement of non family lifestyles, demonization of family lifestyles,
>discouragement of women to be mothers and men to be fathers. Socaism want
>taxpayers, not mothers and fathers. Hitler asked that the church and
>state be separated and that the souls of Nazi Germany be left to him.
>Following such advise is not good counsel.
>
Extraordinarily bizarre train of thought- I suspect that you are a
Republican and are upset about President Clinton- he's a long way from being
a Nazi- you sound a little bit like a Nazi- strident and illogical.
***rest of bs snipped***
You sound as if things threaten you. People normally act like this when they
are afraid or hypervigilant- I suggest you lay down and take a nap- when you
get up, you'll feel much better.
Paul Duca
michael burt wrote:
> >In article <375eb440....@news.mundo.del.brujo.tx.mil>,
> elb...@protong.org (ĄEl Brujo!) wrote:
>
> > Here's another idea for an updated gospel movie. A horror version of
> > the gospels!
> >
> > "There's only one thing wrong with Mary & Joseph's baby...
> >
> >
> > ...IT'S ALIVE!!!"
>
> At last you have found truth. Jesus Christ is alive. God1s love for all
> is longsuffering hoping that all come to repentance, but He does not wink
> at sin, and He does not wait forever. For those who wait forever, their
> judgement will indeed be a horror. For those who wait too long, how sad
> they will be to see how few riches they have stored in heaven. Joyously
> saved they may be, lacking in heavenly treasurers they may well also be.
No horny homemaker spouse, no certificates of merit for assaulting blacks and killing gays...
>
>
> Judgement is the time before God1s throne in which we receive the riches
> we have stored in heaven, and here that we discover the full consequences
> of our sin, even when forgieven by the blood of Christ when sin is
> repentant. It can be either joyous or horrible, the choice is up to the
> person. What is right and wrong have been clearly communicated, so there
> will be no surprise in a fair judgement.
>
> JOY comes from serving
>
> J esus first
> O thers second
> Y ourself last.
>
> There is no joy is self esteem first, thinking of others second, and never
> giving Christ a second thought. That spells YOJ, and where is the love in
> that?
>
In Heaven it's more like
J
O
(keep going)
(press on)
(just a little more)
Y...as in "why, this is how low you rank in Jesus' eyes, even in Heaven"--but this does mean you can brutalize the wife and kiddies with
impunity, since He doesn't even take THAT much notice of you.
Oh, yes...you expect an eternity of the Burt family romping through fields in matching sweaters, having picnics that Mrs. Burt so lovingly and
femininely prepares.
Ah, you in the lead(natuarally)with the butterfly-kissing daughter on your shoulders, the little man apple of your eye trying to match you step for
step because you are so worthy in your masculinity, Mother following along a ways back, picnic basket in one hand, the "delicate" son in the other.
Paul
Bob Johnson
wrote:
>about political correctness, we're talking about a society where a 13 year
>old kid can buy a gun at a gun show and kill his next door neighbor.
Can't be done.
Astalis
> ...reverse racism...
What *is* reverse racism anyway? I thought
racism was racism no matter what skin color or
heritage was involved?
Astalis
--
"And yet there is a time
For everything that's under heaven.
A time to run, a time to stand and fight.
So in the face in cold despair,
No matter what seems right,
Remember darkness drives us to the light..."
**from Michael Card's "Under the Sun"**
-----------------------
astalis at epsi dot net
morning_light at juno dot com
ICQ! Num: 2453141#
-----------------------
Bob Johnson
<975...@accglobal.net> wrote:
>I don't know if I am following you- are you suggesting that if a student
>prays, they will be degraded by a teacher who is not a god-fearing American?
Usually the technique used is ridicule.
>Which would lead me to ask you- if you allow people to carry concealed
>weapons, what is going to be the inevitable consequence- it won't be safer
>streets, I guarantee you.
There is no empirical support for your statement. In the US,
locations which allow concealed carry are as safe or safer than those
which do not.
>It never fails to amaze me how many people want to hang on to their guns
>following incidents involving deaths due to firearms.
It never fails to amaze me how many people want to blame the wrong
reason for violent acts.
Bob Johnson
Mike Murphy
Astalis wrote in message <376352...@epsi.net>...
>Mike Murphy wrote:
>
>> ...reverse racism...
>
> What *is* reverse racism anyway? I thought
>racism was racism no matter what skin color or
>heritage was involved?
>
>Astalis
>
someone who perceives discrimination due to race. The reaction usually is a
response in kind. Usually, there is a trigger, but the root causes are
historical.
Mike Murphy
>
>Usually the technique used is ridicule.
>
What empirical proof do you have for stating such a claim?
>>Which would lead me to ask you- if you allow people to carry concealed
>>weapons, what is going to be the inevitable consequence- it won't be safer
>>streets, I guarantee you.
>
>There is no empirical support for your statement. In the US,
>locations which allow concealed carry are as safe or safer than those
>which do not.
I would love to see the source of this information. Picture it this way-
there is already a level of violence due to guns which could be construed as
an epidemic. If gun restriction is relaxed, how does this lead to less
violence and less reactivity- (read: road rage incidents, gang violence,
robberies, rapes).
>
>>It never fails to amaze me how many people want to hang on to their guns
>>following incidents involving deaths due to firearms.
>
>It never fails to amaze me how many people want to blame the wrong
>reason for violent acts.
>
I did not mean to indicate that guns are the only reason- just they they
aren't the answer.
>Bob Johnson
>
Mike Murphy
Bob Johnson wrote in message <376202c9...@news.earthlink.net>...
gun with relative ease.
Rick Hall
<7k0mvm$kng$1...@news2.tor.accglobal.net>...
> >There is no empirical support for your statement. In the US,
> >locations which allow concealed carry are as safe or safer than those
> >which do not.
>
> I would love to see the source of this information. Picture it this way-
> there is already a level of violence due to guns which could be construed
as
> an epidemic. If gun restriction is relaxed, how does this lead to less
> violence and less reactivity- (read: road rage incidents, gang violence,
> robberies, rapes).
There was a major study out of the University of Chicago of this issue. It
has been compiled into a book called "More Guns Less Crime" I have not
yet gotten my hands on this one, but you are welcome to.
The reason that reducing restrictions on guns make streets safer is because
a greater number of potential victims are now able to protect themselves.
The criminals know this, and it serves as a deterrent to committing a
crime. And those who are not deterred have a lessor chance of being
successful in committing the crime.
The specific incidents you mentioned were road rage where the participants
are already in cars, which can be very dangerous weapons by themselves.
Gang violence, where the participants already have guns, and thus wont be
affected by easier access, as if they worry about gun laws anyway.
Robberies would be less common where a higher percentage of potential
victims have the ability to defend themselves.
Rapes are a good example why guns should be available. Rapes are brutal
crimes by men against women. If you haven't noticed, men tend to be bigger
and stronger than women. A gun in the hands of a rapist does not change
the balance any. A gun in the hands of a woman who is a target for rape
does.
Rick
Rick Hall
>
> >>about political correctness, we're talking about a society where a 13
year
> >>old kid can buy a gun at a gun show and kill his next door neighbor.
> >
> >Can't be done.
> >
> Maybe not at a gun show, but a 13 year old kid can probably get ahold of
a
> gun with relative ease.
>
This from the guy demanding proof for all claims against him. LOL
Rick
Bob Johnson
<975...@accglobal.net> wrote:
>>Usually the technique used is ridicule.
>>
>What empirical proof do you have for stating such a claim?
Happened to me as a kid. It's extremely easy for an adult to make fun
of a kid in a hurtful way.
>>There is no empirical support for your statement. In the US,
>>locations which allow concealed carry are as safe or safer than those
>>which do not.
>
>I would love to see the source of this information.
Crime rate information is widely available. You could look it up.
But here is a thought experiment -- an imaginary trip from the east
coast to the Mississippi River, driving through the following states:
NY, NJ, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois.
Can you rate the overall safety of those states by their concealed
carry laws? Except maybe for NJ, all are a mix of rural and city
populations.
Two of the states in that list have easy-to-obtain (if you pass the
background check) concealed carry permits. The rest either have none,
or make it nearly impossible to obtain.
Which two?
Bob Johnson
Bob Johnson
<975...@accglobal.net> wrote:
>
>Bob Johnson wrote in message <376202c9...@news.earthlink.net>...
>>On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:45:36 GMT, "Paul Browning" <ps...@home.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>about political correctness, we're talking about a society where a 13 year
>>>old kid can buy a gun at a gun show and kill his next door neighbor.
>>
>>Can't be done.
>>
>Maybe not at a gun show, but a 13 year old kid can probably get ahold of a
>gun with relative ease.
I was objecting to his straw man.
When I was growing up, probably 90% of the houses that high school
kids lived in had glass-front gun cabinets that had from 5 to 20
firearms each -- easy pickings if anyone had wanted to steal their
father's rifles. Anyplace where hunting is a common pastime would
have been the same. We used to ride around country roads with our 22
rifles across the bike handlebars. Nobody got massacred. The
availability today to kids is way lower than it was then.
My point: the access isn't the issue.
Bob Johnson
Mike Murphy
Rick Hall wrote in message <01beb5c2$e539b5c0$cb2456d1@ev>...><7k0mvm$kng$1...@news2.tor.accglobal.net>...
>> >There is no empirical support for your statement. In the US,
>> >locations which allow concealed carry are as safe or safer than those
>> >which do not.
>>
>> there is already a level of violence due to guns which could be construed
>as
>> an epidemic. If gun restriction is relaxed, how does this lead to less
>> violence and less reactivity- (read: road rage incidents, gang violence,
>> robberies, rapes).
>
There was a major study out of the University of Chicago of this issue. It
>has been compiled into a book called "More Guns Less Crime" I have not
>yet gotten my hands on this one, but you are welcome to.
>
If the location of this stoudy was, in fact Chicago, I would be very
interested in reading this.
>The reason that reducing restrictions on guns make streets safer is because
>a greater number of potential victims are now able to protect themselves.
>The criminals know this, and it serves as a deterrent to committing a
>crime. And those who are not deterred have a lessor chance of being
>successful in committing the crime.
I sincerely believe that these are short-term effects. Do you seriously
believe that gun-play is reduced? It is the gun-play that results in people
being killed, most often not the crimes that are committed by people with
guns. Are you advocating for more gun-play and armed stand-offs? Did you
stop to ask yourself who will be more likely to get killed if a potential
victim draws on an attacker who already has them at gunpoint? I agree,
perhaps a deterrent for crimes, but not a deterrent for killings. More
guns+ more people living below the poverty line+ less jail cells/ treatment
options for serious offenders+ more gun related deaths.
>The specific incidents you mentioned were road rage where the participants
>are already in cars, which can be very dangerous weapons by themselves.
>Gang violence, where the participants already have guns, and thus wont be
>affected by easier access, as if they worry about gun laws anyway.
What you have said here is very interesting, indeed- is your attitude that
gangs, since already armed, won't become more prolific at killing with
relaxed gun laws? Or is it that since they only attack other gangs that
they'll only wipe each other out anyway? Do you have kids? If you think
for one second that relaxed gun laws will not lead it to being easier for
your child to get a grip on one, you better think again.
>Robberies would be less common where a higher percentage of potential
>victims have the ability to defend themselves.
This may be one of the only positive consequences of relaxed gun
legislation. Think about it, though- if gun laws weren't already too lax,
how did the guy holding you up at gunpoint get one?
>
>Rapes are a good example why guns should be available. Rapes are brutal
>crimes by men against women. If you haven't noticed, men tend to be bigger
>and stronger than women. A gun in the hands of a rapist does not change
>the balance any. A gun in the hands of a woman who is a target for rape
>does.
This is perhaps true- however, a lot of women happen to know their attacker
in cases of rape- and in some cases where they don't, a certain amount of
planning goes into a rape. If a woman is caught of guard, either by someone
familiar or jumped from behind, will she be able to use a gun- perhaps yes,
perhaps no. She may be killed instead of just raped. Again as a deterrent,
perhaps so. Then again, however, women are not raped because they are not
carrying guns- they are raped because there is someone out there who gets
off on it. Which problem needs to be addressed?
>
>Rick
>
Mike Murphy
>This from the guy demanding proof for all claims against him. LOL
>
>Rick
Think before you speak- why are there all those schools with the metal
detectors?
Mike Murphy
>
>My point: the access isn't the issue.
>
>Bob Johnson
There is a difference between being brought up around guns and being taught
to respect them and human life and what is going on in cities, right? I am
sure that you were taught how to use guns and respect safety and other
people. There are a lot of people who haven't had the same advantages as
you. When these people get guns, they kill people or threaten them because
it gives them power. Violent people should not get guns. Due to Littleton,
more restrictive measures are needed so that an increasing number of people
with less and less empathy don't kill you or I.
Access is only part of the issue.>
Paul Browning
did just that with a hidden camera on him.
Mike Murphy <975...@accglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7k0n3r$ko9$1...@news2.tor.accglobal.net...
Mark Stassen
>My point: the access isn't the issue.
>
I agree, despite the rantings of the likes of Spike Lee and Rosie
O'Donnell.
We don't need gun control, what we need is SELF-CONTROL!
The message of the cross is foolishness for those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18
Rick Hall
<01beb5e8$20f01e40$786156d1@ev>...
> If the location of this stoudy was, in fact Chicago, I would be very
> interested in reading this.
The study was done at the University of Chicago. Whether Chicago was one
of the areas they looked at I don't know.
>
> >The reason that reducing restrictions on guns make streets safer is
> because
> >a greater number of potential victims are now able to protect
themselves.
>
> I sincerely believe that these are short-term effects. Do you seriously
> believe that gun-play is reduced? It is the gun-play that results in
> people
> being killed, most often not the crimes that are committed by people with
> guns. Are you advocating for more gun-play and armed stand-offs? Did
you
> stop to ask yourself who will be more likely to get killed if a potential
> victim draws on an attacker who already has them at gunpoint? I agree,
> perhaps a deterrent for crimes, but not a deterrent for killings.
If your statement is that wider availability of guns will lead to fewer
crimes, but that a higher proportion of crimes will end in death, I agree.
This is like seat belt laws. When seat belt laws were passed the number of
accidents increased, but a smaller proportion of accidents led to
fatalities. Overall the number of deaths on the road stayed about the
same. (Stephen Lansburgh "The Arm Chair Economist" Gun laws work the same
way, restrictions cause more crime with a smaller percentage of those
crimes ending in death. Whether repeal of those laws would lead to more,
fewer or the same number of deaths is a question that I do not have the
data to answer. With uncertain data, I will err on the side of liberty.
> What you have said here is very interesting, indeed- is your attitude
that
> gangs, since already armed, won't become more prolific at killing with
> relaxed gun laws? Or is it that since they only attack other gangs that
> they'll only wipe each other out anyway? Do you have kids? If you think
> for one second that relaxed gun laws will not lead it to being easier for
> your child to get a grip on one, you better think again.
>
I am not in favor of killing, whether the victim is a gang member or a
Sunday school teacher. Gangs already have access to guns, and they have
not wiped themselves out yet, so it is fair to assume that they will not.
But gangs are made up of people who are willing to break the laws, so it
seems silly to think that they will feel bound by gun laws.
> >Robberies would be less common where a higher percentage of potential
> >victims have the ability to defend themselves.
>
>
> This may be one of the only positive consequences of relaxed gun
> legislation. Think about it, though- if gun laws weren't already too
lax,
> how did the guy holding you up at gunpoint get one?
I made no claim that the robber had a gun. Again you are talking about
passing laws because of what criminals do, and by definition a criminal is
someone who does not obey the law. It is a federal law that convicted
felons may not buy a gun, so if our robber has a gun either he has not been
caught, or he is breaking the law by merely possessing one. I do not see
how more laws will help.
> >
> >Rapes are a good example why guns should be available. Rapes are brutal
> >crimes by men against women. If you haven't noticed, men tend to be
> bigger
> >and stronger than women. A gun in the hands of a rapist does not change
> >the balance any. A gun in the hands of a woman who is a target for rape
> >does.
>
>
> This is perhaps true- however, a lot of women happen to know their
attacker
> in cases of rape- and in some cases where they don't, a certain amount of
> planning goes into a rape. If a woman is caught of guard, either by
> someone
> familiar or jumped from behind, will she be able to use a gun- perhaps
yes,
> perhaps no. She may be killed instead of just raped. Again as a
> deterrent,
> perhaps so. Then again, however, women are not raped because they are
not
> carrying guns- they are raped because there is someone out there who gets
> off on it. Which problem needs to be addressed?
>
In all of the above issues, you said the problem was that people had access
to guns, not that people were criminals. Now, you are saying for a woman
to be able to protect herself from a would-be rapist ignores the problem
that there are people who would commit rapes. So are you saying that the
problem is not the guns, but criminals? If so I agree.
Other than we can discuss hypotheticals all night. You can tell me a story
where a gun would not make a difference, and I can tell you one where it
would. That will get us nowhere.
Rick
dirtybird...
treaty... or rather constitution... when did they get a chance to vote on
what they were going to do with the lands and gov'ts??? christianity has
been the downfall of many civilizations... think about it for a bit... what
strong successful civilizations suddenly 'went to the dogs as soon as it
accepted a non traditional religion as christianity into its culture?
multiculturalism is merely there to prevent our society from going to 'hell'
persay... it keeps organizations in line and prevents the horrid power of
the 'religion' from takign over... what countrys have religions as its
leaders?? fundamentalism countries, where women are tortured for looking the
wrong way at someone,... where men are enslaved due to their 'evil' ways...
there will always be a form of subjegation regardless of where you look...
and some people find happiness in their own subjegation... *another
discussion if you wish to continue that one*... if christians were to rule
the world... *which so far seems to be their goal*... then what would
happen... it would break into a million different variations, and no ones
ONE word or description would be accepted as the whole truth and nothing
but.... there is more strength in small definite organizations than one
large vague one...
13013.... only bob dobbs knows...
>
> No one condones slavery, that is not the point. The point is that
> multicultural education has focused solely on the racist position that
> Europeans have a problem. They ignor that the Constitution based upon the
> Gospel of Jesus Christ set into motion the forces to end slavery, they
> ignor the tireless efforts of Christian men and women who risked their
> fortunes as abolutionists to end slavery, they ignor the sacrifice of a
> great many white Christen men's blood to cover the sin of slavery, they
> ignor that slavery came into being in the pagan world, not the Christian
> world, and they ignor the sacrifices of Christian men and women who as
> missionaries ended slavery in the last of its strongholds, Africa and
> China.
>
> Multicultural textbooks deceitfully treat slavery as a racist, sexist, and
> anti-European practice. It is none of those, it is a satanic practice.
> That has a great deal to do with these newsgroups, for the
> multiculturalists are training our children that Christianity is
> pro-slavery. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
>
> Although all Christians are sinners striving to live in God's Word,
> Christianity is not sinful.
>
> There is no excuse for slavery; there is no excuse for the racism, sexism
> and anti-Christian underpinnings of multiculturalism.
Paul Browning
some insight until I can find it. Vernon, you would certainly be more
believable if you used Biblical quotes or statistics to back up your wild
accusations.
U.S. is No. 1--in Murder, Rape, Robbery
No other nation comes close, congressional report shows
By Tim Weiner, San Jose Mercury News, 3/13/91
WASHINGTON -- The United States is "the most violent and self-destructive
nation
on earth," a congressional report said Tuesday.
The Senate Judiciary Committee report depicted Americans killing, raping and
robbing one another at a furious rate, surpassing every other country that
keeps
crime statistics.
The nation's citizens committed a record number of killings in 1990--at
least
23,300, or nearly three an hour--and a record number of rapes, robberies and
assaults, the committee said.
"In 1990, the United States led the world with its murder, rape and robbery
rates," the report said. "When viewed from the national perspective, these
crime
rates are sobering. When viewed from the international perspective, they are
truly embarrassing."
The report noted that the murder rate in the United States was more than
twice
that of Northern Ireland, which is torn by civil war; four times that of
Italy;
nine times England's and 11 times Japan's.
Violence against women in America was even more pervasive, the committee
said.
The rape rate in the United States was eight times higher than in France, 15
times higher than in England, 23 times higher than in Italy and 26 times
higher
than in Japan, according to the report.
Robbery rates followed much the same pattern: six times higher than in
England,
seven times higher than in Italy--and nearly 150 times higher than in Japan.
Actually, you were right. The US has only NINE TIMES THE HOMICIDE RATE AS
THE UK. I estimated it at ten.
I really don't think that makes me a liar do you? Who is the liar?
Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
news:7jujfm$52q$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com...
>
> Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:4Zi83.11228$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> > What do you think is the difference between the US and the UK. We have
> > about 10 times the number of murders per capita than they do. Their
> church
> > attendance is much lower than ours. Do you suppose there's any way that
> it
> > REALLY WAS THE EASY AVAILABILITY OF GUNS THAT KILLED THOSE KIDS IN
> > LITTLETON, KENTUCKY, ETC? I'd say it was. Give it up. We're not
talking
> > about political correctness, we're talking about a society where a 13
year
> > old kid can buy a gun at a gun show and kill his next door neighbor.
>
Victoria A Mann
Masons (sorcerers)
and that spirit has become predominant in America. So-called New Age gurus
are
everywhere, initiating citizens into sorcery of one type or another.
America is finished.
Things will get worse and worse until Jesus returns.
Blessings from Victoria
michael burt wrote in message ...
>For years, the godless said that if you want to pray to God at school,
>just do it, even if you miss something in class and any good intolerant
>multicultural, teacher will demonize you.
>
>For years, the godless said that if you donąt like the violence on TV,
>donąt watch it.
>
>For years, the godless have said that you donąt need to post the 10
>Commandments on the wall of a school, They say Thou shalt not murder is
>not an important message--apparently only the Christian God forbids it
>since its posting would be met with some suspicision as something not so
>good.
>
>
>But after 40 years of mocking God, the separation from God is making
>itself known. In the case of Columbine, using the same flawed 40 year
>logic, we could reason, łIf you donąt like being shot at, donąt go to
>school˛. Or, the politically correct position that men should give up
>their guns so that no one will be shot. Good theory, bad consequence.
>
>The flawed 40 year argument is tired, trite, and destructive. It is
>murdering people in Littleton. The time for social engineering must end,
>the time to encourage leading lives in the honor and virtue of American
>culture must return. America is unique among nations because it was
>founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we want to eliminate the
>Littletons, we need to return to the Founding Fathers intent to encourage
>Christianity, and stop encouraging the silence of His Name, and following
>His Word. Scripture is clear on the consequences of continuing to rebell
>against Godąs Word, Littleton is the proof.
>
>We do not need irresponsible gun control, we need responsible social
>engineering control.
seeker.of.truth
<8xZ83.95$hR4....@vic.nntp.telstra.net>...
> >culture must return. America is unique among nations because it was
> >founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we want to eliminate the
How is this so ?
It seems to me it was created by a bunch of Deist non-Christians...
> >Character Counts. It is not hypocritical to set a high goal and
> occasionally fail. It is hypocritical to set a low goal and occasionally
> succeed.
Indeed - it is not hypocritical but rather discouraging.
It is the wisdom of Confucious to set a short-term goal, succeed in it,
and proceed to the next short-term goal - of course he said it so much
better than I could - A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single
footstep...
seeker.of.truth
<_nZ83.11740$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com>...
> I've been looking for some more recent information but this will provide
> some insight until I can find it. Vernon, you would certainly be more
> believable if you used Biblical quotes or statistics to back up your wild
> accusations.
>
> U.S. is No. 1--in Murder, Rape, Robbery
So we're getting worse and worse in violent crime, and getting to have
slightly more
gun control. We used to not have such violent crime, but we never had gun
control.
So gun control isn't the dominant correlant (it isn't even a positive
correlant at all).
So what is or are the dominant correlant(s) ?
I've heard it alleged that increasing divorce and out-of-marriage wedlock
are correlants.
But what can be done about these, unless we pass under national Islamic or
Catholic law,
which would be very unAmerican...
michael burt
"dirtybird..." <white_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> whoa... just a second here... the native americans were never part of that
> treaty... or rather constitution... when did they get a chance to vote on
> what they were going to do with the lands and gov'ts??? christianity has
> been the downfall of many civilizations... think about it for a bit... what
> strong successful civilizations suddenly 'went to the dogs as soon as it
> accepted a non traditional religion as christianity into its culture?
None that I know of. Christianity saved pagan Rome for another 1000
thousand years of life, until pagan Rome corrupted Christianity before its
reformation.
>
> multiculturalism is merely there to prevent our society from going to 'hell'
> persay...
Based upon the its fruits in Littleton, it doesn't look like its going to
have a long and loving life.
it keeps organizations in line and prevents the horrid power of
> the 'religion' from takign over...
What athiestic humanistic mytholoogy are you referring to?
Multiculturalism is a religion, and a very bad one at that.
what countrys have religions as its
> leaders?? fundamentalism countries, where women are tortured for looking the
> wrong way at someone,...
BS with a hit. More feminist religious mythology? Where are your facts?
where men are enslaved due to their 'evil' ways...
BS with a hit. More athiestic religious mythology? Where are your facts?
> there will always be a form of subjegation regardless of where you look...
Or a rebellion to God, more aproptiately.
> and some people find happiness in their own subjegation...
Sad but true as people suck up to the idol of humanism.
*another
> discussion if you wish to continue that one*... if christians were to rule
> the world... *which so far seems to be their goal*...
What do you make such a claim on?
then what would
> happen... it would break into a million different variations, and no ones
> ONE word or description would be accepted as the whole truth and nothing
> but.... there is more strength in small definite organizations than one
> large vague one...
There is the greatest strength in the unity of the Body of Christ.
Members come in all denominations. Your are confusing churchanity with
Christianity.
American culture is not multicultural, it is unicultural. Its strengtbh
and blessing have always come from God, in Whom it has always placed its
trust. Not from the psychobabel of godless humanism.
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness....A
[Government] whose character is thus marked by every act which may define
a Tyrant, is unfit to be a ruler of a free people. ...with a firm
reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to
each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor. (Thomas
Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence.)
Our life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness come from the Creator, not
the government of socialism, humanism, and other Marxist mythologies.
--
May God Bless You,
Michael
Character Counts. It is not hypocritical to set a high goal and occasionally fail. It is hypocritical to set a low goal and occasionally succeed.
The DataRat
While Ofc. Rat was in police academy some dozen years
ago, Arizona passed a concealed weapons permit law.
Prior to that, Arizona had NO concealed weapon permits.
The liberal newspaper, and the Police Chief of the City
of Phoenix, predicted grave consequences. People
would being shooting it out on the streets at high noon
if our state started issuing CCW permits !
We've had that law in effect for about a dozen years now.
It is a "shall issue" statute: If you don't have any warrants,
and you don't have any felony convictions, and you pass
a 16-hr. class, the state MUST issue you the permit.
Well, as a municipal police officer in the State of Arizona
for that whole time, Ofc. Rat is here to tell you that our
CCW statute DIDN'T bring an epidemic of public shootouts
like the liberals predicted. No peace officers were gunned
down by CCW permit holders as the former Phoenix Police
Chief warned would happen.
Actually, there hasn't been any perceptible effect one way
or another. We've had a couple armed robbers killed by
CCW permit holders. Other than that, it's had a negligible
effect on law enforcement and on crime.
That Phoenix Police Chief also said that officers would
have to alter in major ways how they interacted with
citizens if we had a CCW permit statute. THAT hasn't
changed, either. The Tactical Team ~isn't~ being called
out every time we stop a motorist because they might
have a pistol ( gasp ! ) under their shirt.
Good officers ASSUME the people they're stopping
might be armed. Just standard Officer Safety. THAT
was the case even ~before~ the CCW statute.
And, frankly, the Police Rodent is a lot less worried
about a guy holding a CCW permit being armed. At
least he's been warrant-checked, and has no felony
convictions. It's the ones who don't have the permits
that are murdering his fellow officers !
The DataRat
Vernon O
Mike Murphy <975...@accglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7k0mvm$kng$1...@news2.tor.accglobal.net...
>
>
> >
> >Usually the technique used is ridicule.
> >
> What empirical proof do you have for stating such a claim?
>
> >>weapons, what is going to be the inevitable consequence- it won't be
safer
> >>streets, I guarantee you.
> >
> >locations which allow concealed carry are as safe or safer than those
> >which do not.
>
> I would love to see the source of this information. Picture it this way-
> there is already a level of violence due to guns which could be construed
as
> an epidemic. If gun restriction is relaxed, how does this lead to less
> violence and less reactivity- (read: road rage incidents, gang violence,
> robberies, rapes).
The information is all over the place.
First clean up your English.
There is almost no restriction on guns today. There are a lot of
puposefully useless laws. Very very few are enforced.
What does "level of violence due to guns" mean. Nothing.
Which law would you pass or endorse which would reduce the number of guns
used improperly?
Which law would you pass which would keep guns out of the handds of teen
agers?
I would suggest you turn your attention to the politicians, law enforcement
people and dealers who skirt the existing law. Put THEM in jail. Have the
government sue THEM for negligence.
Vernon O
A statement from 1991 from the congressional record means nothing. You can
only imagine in your worst nightmare the things posted as fact in the
congressional record.
Most nations have no where near the record keeping or statistics that we do.
No nation is as rich as we are.
I would dare to say that most people possible all except for myself on this
N.G. have been to these "other" countries, lived there, read their papers,
lived in this country with almost no gun control, lived here when even
people in the center of a large city didn't lock their doors. I expressly
do not include N.Y.C or Washington D.C. When I was young, I had a running
argument with my mother. Everyone that I knew owned a gun. All of the
neighbors owned a hand gun of some sort. Even people in the city went
hunting and fishing. My mother allowed no guns, not even a sling shot.
Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in message
news:_nZ83.11740$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> I've been looking for some more recent information but this will provide
> some insight until I can find it. Vernon, you would certainly be more
> believable if you used Biblical quotes or statistics to back up your wild
> accusations.
>
> U.S. is No. 1--in Murder, Rape, Robbery
>
Vernon O
seeker.of.truth <estud...@rcn.net> wrote in message
news:01beb62d$03d496c0$48e0a4d8@yo...
> Victoria A Mann <vm...@hotkey.net.au> wrote in article
> <8xZ83.95$hR4....@vic.nntp.telstra.net>...
> > >culture must return. America is unique among nations because it was
> > >founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we want to eliminate the
>
> How is this so ?
> It seems to me it was created by a bunch of Deist non-Christians...
You have been reading revisionist history again.
The truth is between your statement and that of Victoria
>
>
> > >Character Counts. It is not hypocritical to set a high goal and
> > occasionally fail. It is hypocritical to set a low goal and
occasionally
> > succeed.
>
> Indeed - it is not hypocritical but rather discouraging.
> It is the wisdom of Confucious to set a short-term goal, succeed in it,
> and proceed to the next short-term goal - of course he said it so much
> better than I could - A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single
> footstep...
>
Confucius was not as wise as you seem to think but be that as it may.
Setting a goal and an interim goal with a larger goal in the future are the
same. An ultimate goal and a goal of no consequence are not the same. Even
Confucius knew that the goal really was a thousand miles.
michael burt
<estud...@rcn.net> wrote:
> Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in article
> <_nZ83.11740$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com>...
> > I've been looking for some more recent information but this will provide
> > some insight until I can find it. Vernon, you would certainly be more
> > believable if you used Biblical quotes or statistics to back up your wild
> > accusations.
> >
> > U.S. is No. 1--in Murder, Rape, Robbery
>
> So we're getting worse and worse in violent crime, and getting to have
> slightly more
> gun control. We used to not have such violent crime, but we never had gun
> control.
> So gun control isn't the dominant correlant (it isn't even a positive
> correlant at all).
> So what is or are the dominant correlant(s) ?
>
> I've heard it alleged that increasing divorce and out-of-marriage wedlock
> are correlants.
> But what can be done about these, unless we pass under national Islamic or
> Catholic law,
> which would be very unAmerican...
We need to pass less laws and rely upon the basics of American culture
which is based upon the Constitution which is based upon the Declaration
of Independence which is based upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The
concept of morality and ethics demanded by a free people under the
establishment of American culture respects responsibility in marriage,
responsibility in sex, responsibility in gun use, and responsibility in
all freedoms.
The Rabinical Pharisees sought to add to the Laws of God such as Thou
Shalt Not Murder. This is called legalism, none of the added laws were
necessary. thou Shalt Not Murder is sufficient all by itself. No
additional laws are needed. The problem, situational ethics and multiple
truths make simple things complicated. We need to get rid of situational
ethics and multiple truths and return to the simple truth that our nation
was founded on--Thou Shalt Not Murder, and enforce it with the death
penalty when compasionatly judged and found guilty beyond a shadow of
doubt.
Likewise, we need to stop penalizing marriage with additional income tax,
stop rewarding out of marriage children with a welfare increase, and a
multiple of other things which greatly deviate from responsible and
prudent sanity. Perhaps if the 10 Commandments were posed in the school
in Littleton, Eric Harris might have realized that Thou Shalt Not Murder
was not a multiple truth, among many.
--
May God Bless You,
Michael
Character Counts. It is not hypocritical to set a high goal and occasionally fail. It is hypocritical to set a low goal and occasionally succeed.
michael burt
<estud...@rcn.net> wrote:
> Victoria A Mann <vm...@hotkey.net.au> wrote in article
> <8xZ83.95$hR4....@vic.nntp.telstra.net>...
> > >culture must return. America is unique among nations because it was
> > >founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we want to eliminate the
>
> How is this so ?
> It seems to me it was created by a bunch of Deist non-Christians...
You have a strange sense of Deist non-Christians. The following
quotations do not seem to be the statements of deist non-Christians, but
from Christians in a Christian nation.
Above all, the pure light of revelation has had an influence on mankind,
and increased the blessings of society. It is impossible to rightly govern
the world without God and the Bible.
George Washington
I have always said that a studious perusal of the sacred volume will make
better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands
Thomas Jefferson. (Mr. Jefferson as they call him at the University of
Virginia or Young Tom as they call him at William and Mary, would be
surprised to find that fatherhood has been censored out of some new age
Bibles today.)
The first and almost the only book deserving of universal attention is the
Bible. I speak as a man of the world.
John Quincy Adams
It [the Bible] is the rock on which our Republic rests.
Andrew Jackson
It was for the love of the truths of this great and good Book that our
fathers abandoned their native shores for the wilderness.
zachary Taylor
I am profitably engaged in reading the bible. Take all of this Book that
you can by reason and the balance by faith, and you will live and die a
better man. It is the best book which God has given to man.
Abraham Lincoln.
Almost every man who has by his lifework added to the sum of human
achievement...has based his lifework largely upon the teachings of the
Bible.
Theodore Roosevelt.
A man has deprived himself of the best there is in the world who has
deprived himself of this [a knowledge of the Bible]
Woodrow Wilson
There is no other book so various as the Bible, nor one so full of
concentrated wisdom. Whether it be of law, business, morals, etc...he who
seeks for guidance ...may look inside its covers and find illumination
Herbert Hoover.
The Bible contains more philosophy that all the libraries that I have ever
seen; and such parts as I cannot reconcile with my little philosophy, I
postpone for future investigation
John Adams
To the influence of this Book, we are indebted for the progress made in
civilization, and to this we must look as our guide in the future.
Ulysses S Grant
The young must be taught, and they must be taught truly if the spring
waters of democracy are to be kept untainted...The influence of the
Scriptures in the early days of the Republic is plainly revealed in the
writing and thinking of the men who made the nation possible...They found
in the Scriptures that which shaped their course and determined their
actions
Franklin D Roosevelt
If this are quotes from deist non-Christians, we need more leaders llike
this instead of the poll following pretender like Clinton who mocks Godąs
Word by falsly saying that it does not call oral sex with a subordinate
adultry and sin. How we have fallen from men seeking righteousness before
God to pagan feminist seeking self serving righetousness in the cathedrals
of their own minds who will stop at nothing, even twisting and mocking
Godąs Word to justfy their own sins and spread the policies of hatred
between rich and poor, black and white, men and women, older and younger,
moral and immoral, Christian and pagan with the seeds of ethnic
cleansing. Hitler was the only one who demonstratd a greater skill at
twisting Scripture than Clinton.
michael burt
<975...@accglobal.net> wrote:
> Astalis wrote in message <376352...@epsi.net>...
> >Mike Murphy wrote:
> >
> >> ...reverse racism...
> >
> > What *is* reverse racism anyway? I thought
> >racism was racism no matter what skin color or
> >heritage was involved?
> >
> >Astalis
> >
> I agree with what you have posted. Reverse racism refers to a reaction by
> someone who perceives discrimination due to race. The reaction usually is a
> response in kind. Usually, there is a trigger, but the root causes are
> historical.
Reverse racism is an oxymoron. Racism is racism, it is wrong. People
have the perversion in these days of multiple truths and situational
ethics to redefine sin to make it sound better. Sacrificing an unborn
infant created through irresponsible sex is called abortion (sounds
better), reverse racism sounds somewhat like it is justified for some
reason. It isn't. Sin is sin, wrong is wrong, evil is evil, and there
are no multiple truths. The only one who benefits from multiple truths is
satan, for each of many truths are given and equal merit to God's Truth.
Christianity is not a democracy, it is a Scripturally Limited Theocracy.
michael burt
<toms...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> michael burt wrote:
>
> > >In article <375eb440....@news.mundo.del.brujo.tx.mil>,
> > elb...@protong.org (ĄEl Brujo!) wrote:
> >
> > > Here's another idea for an updated gospel movie. A horror version of
> > > the gospels!
> > >
> > > "There's only one thing wrong with Mary & Joseph's baby...
> > >
> > >
> > > ...IT'S ALIVE!!!"
> >
> > At last you have found truth. Jesus Christ is alive. God1s love for all
> > is longsuffering hoping that all come to repentance, but He does not wink
> > at sin, and He does not wait forever. For those who wait forever, their
> > judgement will indeed be a horror. For those who wait too long, how sad
> > they will be to see how few riches they have stored in heaven. Joyously
> > saved they may be, lacking in heavenly treasurers they may well also be.
>
> No horny homemaker spouse, no certificates of merit for
assaulting blacks and killing gays...
You misposted to a Christian group, you need to spread this hatred on the
satanic newsgroups. Christians do not assult blacks--they were the ones
who gave up their life's blood to end slavery. they do not kill gays,
neither do they approve of the choice of homosexuality and the increased
risk of STD's that will follow, and neither do they oppress and victemize
women. In Domestic Tranquility, it is feminism that victemizes and
oppresses women, not Christianity.
>
> >
> >
> > Judgement is the time before God1s throne in which we receive the riches
> > we have stored in heaven, and here that we discover the full consequences
> > of our sin, even when forgieven by the blood of Christ when sin is
> > repentant. It can be either joyous or horrible, the choice is up to the
> > person. What is right and wrong have been clearly communicated, so there
> > will be no surprise in a fair judgement.
> >
> > JOY comes from serving
> >
> > J esus first
> > O thers second
> > Y ourself last.
> >
> > There is no joy is self esteem first, thinking of others second, and never
> > giving Christ a second thought. That spells YOJ, and where is the love in
> > that?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> In Heaven it's more like
>
>
> J
> O
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (keep going)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (press on)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (just a little more)
>
>
>
>
> Y...as in "why, this is how low you rank in Jesus' eyes, even in
Heaven"--but this does mean you can brutalize the wife and kiddies with
> impunity, since He doesn't even take THAT much notice of you.
Such anti-male sexism and anti-Christian bashing would again better be
posted on a satanic site where such lies are applauded. Perhaps you
should try judging youself before you spend so much time judging me.
>
>
>
>
> Oh, yes...you expect an eternity of the Burt family romping
through fields in matching sweaters, having picnics that Mrs. Burt so
lovingly and
> femininely prepares.
> Ah, you in the lead(natuarally)with the butterfly-kissing daughter on
your shoulders, the little man apple of your eye trying to match you step
for
> step because you are so worthy in your masculinity, Mother following
along a ways back, picnic basket in one hand, the "delicate" son in the
other.
When you get into hatred, you really get into hatred. Only the
Biblically illiterate would say such things about God's Word.
N20
Paul Duca wrote in message <37632654...@mediaone.net>...
>
>
>michael burt wrote:
>
>> >In article <375eb440....@news.mundo.del.brujo.tx.mil>,
>> elb...@protong.org (ĄEl Brujo!) wrote:
>>
>> > Here's another idea for an updated gospel movie. A horror version of
>> > the gospels!
>> >
>> > "There's only one thing wrong with Mary & Joseph's baby...
>> >
>> >
>> > ...IT'S ALIVE!!!"
>>
>> At last you have found truth. Jesus Christ is alive. God1s love for all
>> is longsuffering hoping that all come to repentance, but He does not wink
>> at sin, and He does not wait forever. For those who wait forever, their
>> judgement will indeed be a horror. For those who wait too long, how sad
>> they will be to see how few riches they have stored in heaven. Joyously
>> saved they may be, lacking in heavenly treasurers they may well also be.
>
> No horny homemaker spouse, no certificates of merit for assaulting
blacks and killing gays...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Judgement is the time before God1s throne in which we receive the riches
>> we have stored in heaven, and here that we discover the full consequences
>> of our sin, even when forgieven by the blood of Christ when sin is
>> repentant. It can be either joyous or horrible, the choice is up to the
>> person. What is right and wrong have been clearly communicated, so there
>> will be no surprise in a fair judgement.
>>
>> JOY comes from serving
>>
>> J esus first
>> O thers second
>> Y ourself last.
>>
>> There is no joy is self esteem first, thinking of others second, and
never
>> giving Christ a second thought. That spells YOJ, and where is the love in
>> that?
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Heaven it's more like
>
>
> J
> O
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>(keep going)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>(press on)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>(just a little more)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Y...as in "why, this is how low you rank in Jesus' eyes, even in
Heaven"--but this does mean you can brutalize the wife and kiddies with
>impunity, since He doesn't even take THAT much notice of you.
>
>
>
>
> Oh, yes...you expect an eternity of the Burt family romping through
fields in matching sweaters, having picnics that Mrs. Burt so lovingly and
>femininely prepares.
>Ah, you in the lead(natuarally)with the butterfly-kissing daughter on your
shoulders, the little man apple of your eye trying to match you step for
>step because you are so worthy in your masculinity, Mother following along
a ways back, picnic basket in one hand, the "delicate" son in the other.
>
>
>
>Paul
>
N20
nos
The DataRat wrote in message <3762CED9...@home.com>...
>
>
>"I thought I heard that in Littleton more
>people were killed by the bombs the kids
>used than by the guns."
>
>
>
>Then, it's the bombs that are "evil".
>
>Only when bombs are outlawed will
>Americans be safe !
>
>Bro. Rat DEMANDS that Congress
>pass stringent legislation restricting the sale
>of bombs at Bomb Shows.
>
>( Actually, the bombs didn't kill many, if
>any, of the victims. )
>
>
>The DataRat
>
>
>
Judy Kurzweil
>
> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:17:40 -0400, mike...@ix.netcom.com (michael
> burt) wrote:
>
<snip>
> The Tragedy of American Compassion by Marvin Olasky (Proofs that the
> replacement of
> Christianity with social Darwinism does not work. Too much charity
> enslaves people to the state and destroys freedom, independence, and God¹s
> promises. As American has become separated from God, the state has become
> separated from the clear intent of the Founding Fathers, and the Gospel of
> Jesus Christ and bogged down with the destructive concept that money
> should be evenly distributed. Focusing on equal results rather than equal
> opportunity, this encourages mediocrity and discourages industry ending in
> state enslavement-the proven track record at the end of Marxism.)
It was Jesus who fed the hungry masses. Wouldn't He have supported
social programs?
Judy
The greatest single cause of Atheism
In the World today, is Christians:
Who acknowledge Jesus with their lips,
Then walk out the door
And deny Him by their lifestyles.
That is what an unbelieving world,
Simply finds unbelievable
-DC Talk
Judy Kurzweil
>
> In article <2zh83.5$JM1.114...@news.fishnet.com>, "Lu"
> <dem...@fishnet.com> wrote:
>
<snip?
> Some lament that satan¹s agenda is already so far progressed that morality
> is lost, and we must resign ourselves to the consequences such as
> Littleton that will follow. But I say that it is lost only if the moral
> continue to remain silent and mis-apply Scripture that we are to turn the
> other cheek to sin and accept it as equally acceptable to righteousness.
> That is not what Christ calls us to do, and to do so expresses no love for
> mankind.
>
> --
> May God Bless You,
> Michael
>
> Character Counts. It is not hypocritical to set a high goal and occasionally fail. It is hypocritical to set a low goal and occasionally succeed.
Doesn't the Bible teach that things will continue to disintegrate until
Jesus returns? What do you think we are supposed to be doing in the
political arena and do you think it will stop the inevitable?
--
Judy Kurzweil
>
> >
> >As Christians, we too often think that if no one is actually worshipping
> >satan, at least it is not too bad. But for satan to gain the soul, he
> >does not need the soul to worship satan; he only needs the soul to stop
> >worshiping God. The unfounded and untruthful allegations that God is a
> >murderer, Hitler is a Christian, all white people are racist, all men are
> >oppressive and victimizing of women, the desperate attempt to slander
>
> What you are in effect doing is denying that there are many questions that
> your religion does not answer, such as why do children die, if Hitler did
> profess Christian beliefs, would he go to heaven, etc. As for men
> victimizing women, you are treading in rough water minimizing the violence
> that men do indeed do to women.
What a person says and what they actually believe can be very
different. Just because a person professes Christian belief does not
mean he is a Christian. God reads mens hearts.
Vernon O
idea of what the NRA does do, you would know that they constantly use every
bit of influence they have to get the gun laws enforced. The laws are for
criminals not for the average citizen.
I do not own a gun nor am I a member of the NRA. That does not make me
ignorant of what they are.
I or anyone I know who is active with the NRA supports breaking any of the
laws INCLUDING the RIGHT for citizens to keep and bear arms.
One thing I do know about their membership is that they are generally
conservative in views on government. That makes them an enemy of the press
and media in general. It definitely makes them an enemy of the ultra
liberals. Note, I say "generally". Two Jewish friends of mine belong to
the NRA because they know full well what it means to have arms registered.
On the other hand they are Democrats to the core.
You have just displayed the ABSOLUTE FACT that you present ideas out of
complete ignorance of the subject. This is bearing false witness. You sir,
are, as I said before, a liar and you don't care what you post in the name
of truth.
I wonder how you would react if a law were proposed which allowed only men
and women between 50 and 70 to drive. It is a known fact that the majority
of autos stolen are by those under 40. Most deaths are caused by drunks
under 50. Over 70 there is a slight increase in accidents due to physical
limitation but still one tenth of that under 55 due to alcohol. The
constitution does not give us a right to have a car.
Maybe what we really need is a law which restrict gun ownership or handling
to only those who have been in the service or police force. They ALL would
also be the "enforcers". They could patrol your neighborhood and if any one
was suspected of having a gun in their possession or house, the enforcers
would bust your door down and do a search because you have displayed a
propensity for untruth. If it were found that you had a knife over 6 inches
long in your house, the house and all its contents would be confiscated.
Sound fictional? There has not been one country or another where that has
not happened as policy in the past 90 years. Germany in 1938 is a prime
example. Don't forget they were a democracy and the NAZI party was (is) the
socialist party.
It has happened in isolated cases right here in the U.S.
If you have the slightest clue of what Revelation is all about, you would
know why arms registration is a must for the New World Order. It is one
thing to see the eventual results and it is quite another to be party to the
destruction and ignorant of its happening. We are not told specifically to
resist, but we are told to recognize the signs and keep our faith.
Conspiracy? No way except ignorant dupes of the process. Men will be
making all kinds of laws to promote "peace".
Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in message
news:vIg93.12843$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> The reason that police officers and politicians don't enforce existing gun
> laws is because the gun lobby especially the NRA has so much political
> power. It's also because there are so many people like you that support
> breaking these laws because of their fascination with firearms.
>
>
> Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
> news:7k3j57$8ne$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
Judy Kurzweil
>
> >
> >American culture has always been kind, generous, strong and unified, and
> >honorable. This is not a surprise for it is built on the Gospel of Jesus
> >Christ. Multiculturalism is the anti-theses of American culture. It is
> >built on hatred, divisive diversity, fraud, re-writing history from a
> >deluded and psychotic viewpoint, and enslavement to the state as
> >protector, provider, and saviour of the soul. The latter appears intended
> >when the culture starts to crumble, the state as saviour will save the
> >people from the Littletons created by the false teaching of multiple
> >truths, the self serving manufactured hatred embodied and encouraged by
> >the state for anti-white racism and anti-male sexism, and immorality
> >encouraged by the anti-Christ underpinnings of multiculturalism.
American culture has NOT always been kind, generous, strong, and
unified. If it had always been unified we would not have had a civil
war. If it had always been kind and generous then explain the news
reels from the 60's showing women and children being hosed down with
fire hoses in the streets.
I don't understand why you feel that learning and understanding all the
cultures of Americans is so dangerous. If you don't understand where
someone is coming from, how can you teach them about Jesus?
As for this country being built on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, yes there
is clear Christian influence. However, a word of caution, many of the
founding fathers, including Jefferson and Franklin, were Deists. They
were not saved, nor were they Spirit filled. Chances are very good that
they saw the logic in the Bible and used what they thought was useful.
--
Paul Browning
The DataRat
"The reason that police officers and politicians don't
enforce existing gun laws is because the gun lobby
especially the NRA has so much political power."
You're obviously NOT a police officer.
The DataRat
Paul Browning
time I read it, this country was founded by a bunch of Deist Non-Christians.
Here are some quotes of the founding fathers.
**************************************
I may grow rich by an art I am compelled to follow; I may recover health by
medicines I am compelled to take against my own judgment; but I cannot be
saved by a worship I disbelieve and abhor. (Thomas Jefferson)
Where the preamble [of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom]
declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of
our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting the words "Jesus
Christ," so that it should read, "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ,
the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great
majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its
protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindu
and Infidel of every denomination. (Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography; from
George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel
Press, 1983, p. 363)
**************************************
Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity in
exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any
particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects? That the same
authority which can force a citizen to contribute threepence only of his
property for the support of any one establishment may force him to conform
to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever? (James Madison)
***************************************
Unlike Thomas Jefferson--and Thomas Paine, for that matter--Washington never
even got around to recording his belief that Christ was a great ethical
teacher. His reticence on the subject was truly remarkable. Washington
frequently alluded to Providence in his private correspondence. But the name
of Christ, in any correspondence whatsoever, does not appear anywhere in his
many letters to friends and associates throughout his life. (Paul F. Boller,
George Washington & Religion, Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press,
1963, pp. 74-75.)
As President, Washington regularly attended Christian services, and he was
friendly in his attitude toward Christian values. However, he repeatedly
declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his
wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary.... Even on his
deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and
expressed no wish to be attended by His representative. George Washington's
practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not
himself a Christian. In the enlightened tradition of his day, he was a
devout Deist--just as many of the clergymen who knew him suspected.
**************************************
[Benjamin] Franklin drank deep of the Protestant ethic and then,
discomforted by church constraints, became a freethinker. All his life he
kept Sundays free for reading, but would visit any church to hear a great
speaker, no doubt recognizing a talent he himself did not possess. With
typical honesty and humor he wrote out his creed in 1790, the year he died:
"I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most acceptable
service we can render Him is doing good to His other children.... As to
Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question
I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to
busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the
truth with less trouble." (Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj.
Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94.)
****************************************
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel
and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more
than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it
the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness,
that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind. (Thomas Paine, The Age of
Reason, 1794-1795.
****************************************
The motto "In God We Trust" did not appear on any U. S. coin until 1864,
when "Its presence on the new coin was due largely to the increased
religious sentiment during the Civil War Crisis."
****************************************
One of the embarrassing problems for the early nineteenth-century champions
of the Christian faith was that not one of the first six Presidents of the
United States was an orthodox Christian. In the mid-eighteenth century,
America had a smaller proportion of church members than any other nation in
Christendom. American religious statistics are notoriously unreliable, but
it has been estimated that in 1800 about one of every fifteen Americans was
a church member ... (Richard Hofstadter, Anti-Intellectualism in American
Life, New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1974, p. 89.)
*****************************************
Convinced? Or do you want to see more?
??????????????????????????????????AMERICA FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN
NATION????????????????????????????????????
Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
news:7k3noi$9j4$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
>
> seeker.of.truth <estud...@rcn.net> wrote in message
> news:01beb62d$03d496c0$48e0a4d8@yo...
> > Victoria A Mann <vm...@hotkey.net.au> wrote in article
> > <8xZ83.95$hR4....@vic.nntp.telstra.net>...
> > > >culture must return. America is unique among nations because it was
> > > >founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we want to eliminate the
> >
> > How is this so ?
> > It seems to me it was created by a bunch of Deist non-Christians...
>
> You have been reading revisionist history again.
> The truth is between your statement and that of Victoria
>
> >
> >
> > > >Character Counts. It is not hypocritical to set a high goal and
> > > occasionally fail. It is hypocritical to set a low goal and
> occasionally
> > > succeed.
> >
Paul Browning
decline in religious faith. The answer to crime is Jesus Christ.
On the other hand, Christ said we should render unto Caesar that which is
Caesar's. Certainly the most important function of a government is to
maintain law and order. It would be nice if everyone in America were a
Christian and treated others the way they would want others to treat them.
Unfortunately, this is not the case and it will never be the case. So we
need to "render unto Caesar" the responsibility for maintaining order. As
I've shown in other posts, the US has a murder rate nine times that of the
UK and eleven times that of Japan. Over half of all murders are committed
by handguns and done by and to increasingly younger people (teenagers). I
think we need to get serious about gun control, whether that means actually
enforcing existing laws or passing new ones. This has nothing to do with
the Pharisees. This is about Caesar.
michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mikeburt-140...@pon-mi22-18.ix.netcom.com...
> --
> May God Bless You,
> Michael
>
Paul Browning
The DataRat <dat...@home.com> wrote in message
news:37659A32...@home.com...
Paul Browning
some research on this topic rather than shooting from the hip. In what way
does that make me a liar? If I'm uncovered some things that you refuse to
accept, that's your prerogative. The fact is that these are facts compiled
by law enforcement agencies.
Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
news:7k48oj$djh$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
> Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:vIg93.12843$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> > The reason that police officers and politicians don't enforce existing
gun
> > laws is because the gun lobby especially the NRA has so much political
> > power. It's also because there are so many people like you that support
> > breaking these laws because of their fascination with firearms.
> >
> >
> > Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
The DataRat
"Thanks for the compliment."
Stinking cop-hater, eh ?
The DataRat
Paul Browning
my statement in a fairly serious traffic accident (two cars totaled) and
changed me from the obvious victim to being at fault. Another driver turned
immediately in front of me at 40 mph at a yellow light. I had no chance to
stop. I said the light was yellow. The other driver said that "when the
light changed from yellow to green she turned left and was immediately hit
by an oncoming car." The police officer wrote in his report that I said the
light was red and issued me a ticket charging me with being at fault for the
accident! I charged the other driver with failure to yield and careless
driving. We both got lawyers. They offered a "deal" to have the case
dismissed and I took it because I wasn't sure I could get justice in the
Municipal court.
Besides, if you look back at previous posts, Vernon was the person that
argued that new gun laws wouldn't do any good because they wouldn't be
enforced just like the current laws. Who enforces the laws? The police. A
lot of gun supporters say this to support their being against new gun
control legislation. Actually, I'm in support of the police doing their
best to enforce gun control laws.
The DataRat <dat...@home.com> wrote in message
news:376629F5...@home.com...
michael burt
> michael burt wrote:
> > =
>
> > On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:17:40 -0400, mike...@ix.netcom.com (michael
> > burt) wrote:
> > =
>
>
>
> <snip>
> > The Tragedy of American Compassion by Marvin Olasky (Proofs that the
> > replacement of
> > Christianity with social Darwinism does not work. Too much charity
> > enslaves people to the state and destroys freedom, independence, and Go=
> d=B9s
> > promises. As American has become separated from God, the state has bec=
> ome
> > separated from the clear intent of the Founding Fathers, and the Gospel=
> of
> > Jesus Christ and bogged down with the destructive concept that money
> > should be evenly distributed. Focusing on equal results rather than eq=
> ual
> > opportunity, this encourages mediocrity and discourages industry ending=
> in
> > state enslavement-the proven track record at the end of Marxism.)
>
> It was Jesus who fed the hungry masses. Wouldn't He have supported
> social programs?
Of course, but He did not heal anyone who did not act in faith. It is no
sin to be poor, nor ignorant, nor down. It is a sin to rely on others
without putting forth effort on one's own part to change himself.
Ps 9:18 For the needy shall not alway be forgotten: the expectation of the
poor shall not perish for ever.
Mt 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
Mr 14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye
may do them good: but me ye have not always.
Joh 12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.
You might enjoy reading the following:
The Tragedy of American Compassion by Marvin Olasky (Proofs that the
replacement of
Christianity with social Darwinism does not work. Too much charity
enslaves people to the state and destroys freedom, independence, and Godąs
promises. As American has become separated from God, the state has become
separated from the clear intent of the Founding Fathers, and the Gospel of
Jesus Christ and bogged down with the destructive concept that money
should be evenly distributed, a godless Marxist concept. Focusing on
equal results rather than equal opportunity, this encourages mediocrity
and discourages industry ending in state enslavement-the proven track
record at the end of Marxism.
American has spent untold trillions to end poverty in this nation since
1968, the *poor* are still with us, and in even greater numbers. This is
not working, and we should return to God's Word in dealing with the poor,
because it works, and becasue we can't affort to continue doing the same
flawed things which always result in failure.
michael burt
proposed in the knee jerk reactions to Littleton, see Guns Donąt Kill
People, Gun Control Does by John R. Lott, Jr. The author provides evidence
that crime is reduced with an armed public. NOTE: the disciples carried
swords. Jesus told Peter when to Śsheathą the sword (responsible useage),
not to dispose of it nor to become unarmed.
michael burt
> Mike Murphy wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >American culture has always been kind, generous, strong and unified, and
> > >honorable. This is not a surprise for it is built on the Gospel of Jesus
> > >Christ. Multiculturalism is the anti-theses of American culture. It is
> > >built on hatred, divisive diversity, fraud, re-writing history from a
> > >deluded and psychotic viewpoint, and enslavement to the state as
> > >protector, provider, and saviour of the soul. The latter appears intended
> > >when the culture starts to crumble, the state as saviour will save the
> > >people from the Littletons created by the false teaching of multiple
> > >truths, the self serving manufactured hatred embodied and encouraged by
> > >the state for anti-white racism and anti-male sexism, and immorality
> > >encouraged by the anti-Christ underpinnings of multiculturalism.
>
> American culture has NOT always been kind, generous, strong, and
> unified.
America was the most perfect union ever formed, no nation has ever been
perfect, nor will ever be.
If it had always been unified we would not have had a civil
> war.
My point exactly. American, based upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ was not
perfect, but reformed and always reforming to the Gospel of Jesus Christ
until it became derailed in the false separation of church and state and
started to become socialits.
If it had always been kind and generous then explain the news
> reels from the 60's showing women and children being hosed down with
> fire hoses in the streets.
Explain what they were doing? Are you sayint that the evil males Only
hosed down women and children? Have you been reading too much feminist
mythology?
>
> I don't understand why you feel that learning and understanding all the
> cultures of Americans is so dangerous.
I never said that we should not learn and understand all cultures. That is
not the point. The point is that we do not have to corrupt American
culture. People come from all over the world to participate in this
Christian American culture and always have. Few leave here for other
cultures.
If you don't understand where
> someone is coming from, how can you teach them about Jesus?
Teaching someone about Jesus can be done whereever anyone is at, It is
immaterial and is done by the Holy Spirit, not man.
>
> As for this country being built on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, yes there
> is clear Christian influence. However, a word of caution, many of the
> founding fathers, including Jefferson and Franklin, were Deists.
More homosexual-feminist mythology.
They
> were not saved, nor were they Spirit filled.
Says who-where are your proofs?
Chances are very good that
> they saw the logic in the Bible and used what they thought was useful.
Chan ces are that you are wrong, these are not the words of deists:
George Washington
John Quincy Adams
Andrew Jackson
zachary Taylor
Abraham Lincoln.
Theodore Roosevelt.
Woodrow Wilson
Herbert Hoover.
John Adams
Ulysses S Grant
Franklin D Roosevelt
--
michael burt
> Mike Murphy wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >As Christians, we too often think that if no one is actually worshipping
> > >satan, at least it is not too bad. But for satan to gain the soul, he
> > >does not need the soul to worship satan; he only needs the soul to stop
> > >worshiping God. The unfounded and untruthful allegations that God is a
> > >murderer, Hitler is a Christian, all white people are racist, all men are
> > >oppressive and victimizing of women, the desperate attempt to slander
> >
> > What you are in effect doing is denying that there are many questions that
> > your religion does not answer, such as why do children die, if Hitler did
> > profess Christian beliefs, would he go to heaven, etc. As for men
> > victimizing women, you are treading in rough water minimizing the violence
> > that men do indeed do to women.
>
> What a person says and what they actually believe can be very
> different. Just because a person professes Christian belief does not
> mean he is a Christian. God reads mens hearts.
And we are to judge what is right from wrong and the fruits of a man by
their works and by Scripture.
michael burt
>
> Doesn't the Bible teach that things will continue to disintegrate until
> Jesus returns? What do you think we are supposed to be doing in the
> political arena and do you think it will stop the inevitable?
We are to give unto Caesar what is Caesar's. No more and no less. But we
are not commanded to give unto Caesar what is not Caesar's to take. Our
inalienable rights come from the Creator.
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness....A
[Government] whose character is thus marked by every act which may define
a Tyrant, is unfit to be a ruler of a free people. ...with a firm
reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to
each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor. (The
Declaration of Independence.)
You must also remember, this is not Rome but America. Government can only
take away freedom, and then by the consent of the people. The soverignity
of America is vested in its people, not its government. This is not
Rome. To allow immorality in government is to be completely corrupt in
judgementalism, hiding the commandments and statues of God, and being
tolerant to sin. That is not what Christ calls us to do. There are few
riches stored in heaven for the church of Laodaica. (Revelation 3)
michael burt
4/27/99
How can we blame it all on guns?
Editor:
For the life of me, I can't understand what could have gone wrong in
Littleton, Colo. If only the parents had kept their children away from the
guns, we wouldn't have had such a tragedy. Yeah, it must have been the guns.
It couldn't have been because of half our children being raised in
broken homes.
It couldn't have been because our children get to spend an average of
30 seconds in meaningful conversation with their parents each day. After
all, we give our children quality time.
It couldn't have been because we treat our children as pets and our
pets as children.
It couldn't have been because we place our children in day care
centers where they learn their socialization skills among their peers under
the law of the jungle while employees who have no vested interest in the
children look on and make sure than no blood is spilled.
It couldn't have been because we allow our children to watch, on
average, seven hours of television a day filled with the glorification of sex
and violence that isn't fit for adult consumption.
It couldn't have been because we allow our children to enter into
virtual worlds in which, to win the game, one must kill as many opponents as
possible in the most sadistic way possible.
It couldn't have been because we have sterilized and contracepted our
families down to sizes so small that the children we do have are so spoiled
with material things that they come to equate the receiving of the material
with love.
It couldn't have been because our children, who historically have
been seen as a blessing from God, are now being viewed as either a mistake
created when contraception fails or inconveniences that parents try to raise
in their spare time.
It couldn't have been because our nation is the world leader in
developing a culture of death in which 20 million to 30 million babies have
been killed by abortion.
It couldn't have been because we give two-year prison sentences to
teen-agers who kill their newborns.
It couldn't have been because we teach our children that there are no
laws of morality that transcend us, that everything is relative and that
actions don't have consequences. What the heck, the president gets away with
it.
Nah, it must have been the guns.
Addison L. Dawson
San Angelo >>
Vernon O
>
> >
> > Doesn't the Bible teach that things will continue to disintegrate until
> > Jesus returns? What do you think we are supposed to be doing in the
> > political arena and do you think it will stop the inevitable?
>
> We are to give unto Caesar what is Caesar's. No more and no less. But we
> are not commanded to give unto Caesar what is not Caesar's to take. Our
> inalienable rights come from the Creator.
What has your answer to do with Judy's post. I don't get the connection.
>
>
> We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal,
> that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
> that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness....A
> [Government] whose character is thus marked by every act which may define
> a Tyrant, is unfit to be a ruler of a free people. ...with a firm
> reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to
> each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor. (The
> Declaration of Independence.)
>
> You must also remember, this is not Rome but America. Government can only
> take away freedom, and then by the consent of the people. The soverignity
> of America is vested in its people, not its government. This is not
> Rome. To allow immorality in government is to be completely corrupt in
> judgementalism, hiding the commandments and statues of God, and being
> tolerant to sin. That is not what Christ calls us to do. There are few
> riches stored in heaven for the church of Laodaica. (Revelation 3)
>
Vernon O
The statistics directly from the agencies do not have the correlation's that
you posted. They are only statistics. You got your "statistics" from
someone who "said" they were from such and such an agency. Typically these
people use such word as "based on data from".
I have been tracking this sort of information for many years because there
is so much untruth being spread.
Even the most adamant publishers have much more than you post.
Statistically speaking, all Christians are stupid and are the main reason
for most deaths in the western world. Do you believe that?
It is extremely easy to prove.
1. Number of Christians in the Western culture. Millions
2. Number of deaths in that culture compare with other cultures. Bad news
3. Number of convicted murderers who are professed atheists or another non
Judeo / Christian religion. Very low percentage.
4. Plus, plus, plus.
If one is not trained in correlation's and statistical analysis, anything
can be "proved".
Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Wdi93.12869$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com...
Vernon O
michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mikeburt-150...@pon-mi22-17.ix.netcom.com...
> People, Gun Control Does by John R. Lott, Jr. The author provides evidence
> that crime is reduced with an armed public. NOTE: the disciples carried
> not to dispose of it nor to become unarmed.
The last part of your statement is accurate.
I don't usually destroy my confidence in what is wrong with society and what
is wrong with the anti gun lobby by reading equally dumb publications by
partisan pro-gun lobbyists.
Vernon O
N20 <n...@granite.net.au> wrote in message
news:xbh93.5$fQ1...@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
> what about the bombs the USA use on the rest of the world?
What you order while getting a blow job doesn't count.
Vernon O
> I would of course agree that the real problem in our country is an overall
> decline in religious faith. The answer to crime is Jesus Christ.
> On the other hand, Christ said we should render unto Caesar that which is
> Caesar's. Certainly the most important function of a government is to
> maintain law and order. It would be nice if everyone in America were a
> Christian and treated others the way they would want others to treat them.
> Unfortunately, this is not the case and it will never be the case. So we
> need to "render unto Caesar" the responsibility for maintaining order. As
> I've shown in other posts, the US has a murder rate nine times that of the
> UK and eleven times that of Japan. Over half of all murders are committed
> by handguns and done by and to increasingly younger people (teenagers). I
> think we need to get serious about gun control, whether that means
actually
> enforcing existing laws or passing new ones. This has nothing to do with
> the Pharisees. This is about Caesar.
>
Like I said before, statistically, Christians are the root cause of all the
murders and crime in the U.S.
>
> michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
Vernon O
story.
Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in message
news:m9h93.12853$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com...
Vernon O
michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mikeburt-140...@pon-mi22-18.ix.netcom.com...
> In article <01beb62d$81402200$48e0a4d8@yo>, "seeker.of.truth"
> <estud...@rcn.net> wrote:
>
The information below is absolute proof that husbands should be outlawed and
banned
WOMEN KILLED BY PARTNERS/SPOUSE
According to FBI statistics, 30% of female murder victims in 1990, the last
year for which statistics are available, were killed by their
husbands or boyfriends. That is approximately 3000 women. (Caroline Knapp,
"A Plague of Murders: Open Season on Women, The
Boston Phoenix, August 1992)
In 1990, says the FBI, intimate enemies accounted for 30% of all women
murder victims ("Doctors must join fight against domestic
violence," USA Today, June 18, 1992, at 12-A)
According to the Uniform Crime Report of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation, 30% of women killed in the United States die at the hands of
a husband or boyfriend. In 1990, more than 800 women were killed by their
husbands; 400 more were killed by their boyfriends. (Antonia C.
Novello, "From the Surgeon General, U.S. Public Health Service, A Medical
Response to Domestic Violence," Journal of the American
Medial Association, June 17, 1992, p. 3132)
One-third of all female homicide victims are killed by husbands,
ex-husbands, boyfriends or ex-boyfriends. (NCJA Justice Research,
"States, Federal Government Increasing Focus on Violence Against Women,"
September/October 1990, p. 3)
More than twice as many women are killed by their husbands or boyfriends as
are murdered by strangers. (Arthur Kellerman, "Men,
Women and Murder," The Journal of Trauma, July 17, 1992, pp. 1-5)
In a study of females killed by intimate partners between 1980-1982, it was
found that the majority of women killed were married (57.7%,
n=2,415). Girlfriends were the next highest percentage (24.5%, n-1,041),
followed by common-law wives *8%, n-332), ex-wives (4.89%,
n-205) and friends (4.675, n-196). (Karen Stout, "Intimate Femicide: A
National Demographic Overview," Violence Update, Vol. 1, No. 6,
February 1991, p. 3)
More than 90 women were murdered every week in 1991 - 9 out of 10 were
murdered by men. (Violence Against Women, A Majority Staff
Report, Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 102nd Congress,
October 1992, p. 2)
Of the 5,745 women murdered in 1991, 6 out of 10 were killed by someone they
knew. Half were murdered by a spouse or someone with
whom they had been intimate. ("When Violence Hits Home," Time, July 4, 1994)
Among all female victims in 1992, 29% were slain by boyfriends or husbands
and 4% of male victims were slain by their wives or
girlfriends. (Federal Bureau of Investigations, 1993)/
Many of the stats in this section come from the National Clearinghouse for
the Defense of Battered Women.
National Clearinghouse for the Defense of Battered Women
125 S. 9th Street
Suite 302
Philadelphia, PA 19107
N20
nos
Victoria A Mann wrote in message
<8xZ83.95$hR4....@vic.nntp.telstra.net>...
>Amen, brother. But it is too late. Some of the founding fathers were
>Masons (sorcerers)
>and that spirit has become predominant in America. So-called New Age
gurus
>are
>everywhere, initiating citizens into sorcery of one type or another.
>America is finished.
>Things will get worse and worse until Jesus returns.
>Blessings from Victoria
>michael burt wrote in message ...
>>For years, the godless said that if you want to pray to God at school,
>>just do it, even if you miss something in class and any good intolerant
>>multicultural, teacher will demonize you.
>>
>>For years, the godless said that if you donąt like the violence on TV,
>>donąt watch it.
>>
>>For years, the godless have said that you donąt need to post the 10
>>Commandments on the wall of a school, They say Thou shalt not murder is
>>not an important message--apparently only the Christian God forbids it
>>since its posting would be met with some suspicision as something not so
>>good.
>>
>>
>>But after 40 years of mocking God, the separation from God is making
>>itself known. In the case of Columbine, using the same flawed 40 year
>>logic, we could reason, łIf you donąt like being shot at, donąt go to
>>school˛. Or, the politically correct position that men should give up
>>their guns so that no one will be shot. Good theory, bad consequence.
>>
>>The flawed 40 year argument is tired, trite, and destructive. It is
>>murdering people in Littleton. The time for social engineering must end,
>>the time to encourage leading lives in the honor and virtue of American
>>culture must return. America is unique among nations because it was
>>founded upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we want to eliminate the
>>Littletons, we need to return to the Founding Fathers intent to encourage
>>Christianity, and stop encouraging the silence of His Name, and following
>>His Word. Scripture is clear on the consequences of continuing to rebell
>>against Godąs Word, Littleton is the proof.
>>
>>We do not need irresponsible gun control, we need responsible social
>>engineering control.
>>
>>--
>>May God Bless You,
>>Michael
>>
N20
it's spiritual leader. The 'evils' you mention below are not to be found
there. If the world had to decide between the Pope and the Dalai Lama - gee,
I know which one I would rather live under.
nos
dirtybird... wrote in message ...
>whoa... just a second here... the native americans were never part of that
>treaty... or rather constitution... when did they get a chance to vote on
>what they were going to do with the lands and gov'ts??? christianity has
>been the downfall of many civilizations... think about it for a bit... what
>strong successful civilizations suddenly 'went to the dogs as soon as it
>accepted a non traditional religion as christianity into its culture?
>
>multiculturalism is merely there to prevent our society from going to
'hell'
>persay... it keeps organizations in line and prevents the horrid power of
>the 'religion' from takign over... what countrys have religions as its
>leaders?? fundamentalism countries, where women are tortured for looking
the
>wrong way at someone,... where men are enslaved due to their 'evil' ways...
>there will always be a form of subjegation regardless of where you look...
>and some people find happiness in their own subjegation... *another
>discussion if you wish to continue that one*... if christians were to rule
>the world... *which so far seems to be their goal*... then what would
>happen... it would break into a million different variations, and no ones
>ONE word or description would be accepted as the whole truth and nothing
>but.... there is more strength in small definite organizations than one
>large vague one...
>
>
>13013.... only bob dobbs knows...
>
>>
>> No one condones slavery, that is not the point. The point is that
>> multicultural education has focused solely on the racist position that
>> Europeans have a problem. They ignor that the Constitution based upon
the
>> Gospel of Jesus Christ set into motion the forces to end slavery, they
>> ignor the tireless efforts of Christian men and women who risked their
>> fortunes as abolutionists to end slavery, they ignor the sacrifice of a
>> great many white Christen men's blood to cover the sin of slavery, they
>> ignor that slavery came into being in the pagan world, not the Christian
>> world, and they ignor the sacrifices of Christian men and women who as
>> missionaries ended slavery in the last of its strongholds, Africa and
>> China.
>>
>> Multicultural textbooks deceitfully treat slavery as a racist, sexist,
and
>> anti-European practice. It is none of those, it is a satanic practice.
>> That has a great deal to do with these newsgroups, for the
>> multiculturalists are training our children that Christianity is
>> pro-slavery. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
>>
>> Although all Christians are sinners striving to live in God's Word,
>> Christianity is not sinful.
>>
>> There is no excuse for slavery; there is no excuse for the racism, sexism
>> and anti-Christian underpinnings of multiculturalism.
Rita Revell
Rita
Mike Murphy wrote:
Bob Johnson wrote in message <376202c9...@news.earthlink.net>...
>On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:45:36 GMT, "Paul Browning" <ps...@home.com>
>wrote:
>
>>about political correctness, we're talking about a society where a 13 year
>>old kid can buy a gun at a gun show and kill his next door neighbor.
>
>Can't be done.
>
Maybe not at a gun show, but a 13 year old kid can probably get ahold of a
gun with relative ease.
Bob Johnson
been illegal since 1968 (Algore's lie to the contrary
notwithstanding).
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:33:31 GMT, "Paul Browning" <ps...@home.com>
wrote:
>Prove that it can't be done. I saw a TV news show in which a young teenager
>did just that with a hidden camera on him.
>
>Mike Murphy <975...@accglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:7k0n3r$ko9$1...@news2.tor.accglobal.net...
Bob Johnson
wrote:
>Vernon, I'm simply posting statistics about crime in the US. I actually did
>some research on this topic rather than shooting from the hip.
But you claimed that the NRA opposes the enforcement of gun laws,
which is absolutely false. If that's the quality of your research,
why read the rest?
Bob Johnson
Paul Browning
conclusion do you draw? Please tell me. What is the rest of the story?
Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
news:7k6nu9$st$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com...
Paul Browning
straightforward. In fact, I'll let you interpret them yourself.
Bureau of Justice Statistics
Homicide trends in the United States
www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/homtrnd.htm
Homicides by weapon type
Other Blunt Other Pct
Handgun gun Knife Object Weapon Handgun
1976 8,651 3,328 3,343 912 2,546 0.46
1977 8,563 3,391 3,648 900 2,618 0.45
1978 8,879 3,569 3,685 937 2,490 0.46
1979 9,858 3,732 4,121 1,039 2,710 0.46
1980 10,552 3,834 4,439 1,153 3,061 0.46
1981 10,324 3,740 4,364 1,166 2,927 0.44
1982 9,138 3,501 4,381 1,032 2,957 0.44
1983 8,473 2,794 4,214 1,098 2,730 0.44
1984 8,183 2,835 3,956 1,090 2,626 0.43
1985 8,164 2,973 3,997 1,052 2,795 0.44
1986 9,054 3,126 4,235 1,176 3,018 0.44
1987 8,781 3,094 4,076 1,169 2,980 0.44
1988 9,375 3,162 3,978 1,296 2,869 0.45
1989 10,225 3,197 3,923 1,279 2,877 0.48
1990 11,677 3,395 4,077 1,254 3,037 0.50
1991 13,101 3,277 3,909 1,252 3,161 0.53
1992 13,158 3,043 3,447 1,088 3,024 0.55
1993 13,981 3,094 3,140 1,082 3,233 0.57
1994 13,496 2,840 2,960 963 3,071 0.58
1995 12,069 2,671 2,735 974 3,162 0.56
1996 10,731 2,531 2,692 917 2,778 0.55
1997 9,796 2,601 2,355 822 2,637 0.54
Source: FBI, Supplementary Homicide Reports, 1976-97.
See the methodology section in Additional Information About
the Data for weighting and imputation procedures used.
Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
news:7k6po0$1eg$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com...
Paul Browning
but in terms of HOW they accomplished this tragedy, YES IT WAS THE GUNS.
Over 50% of the murders in the US are done by handgun.
Homicides by weapon type
michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mikeburt-150...@pon-mi22-17.ix.netcom.com...
> --
> May God Bless You,
> Michael
>
The DOOMaster dugie3
wrote:
>I don't know what is was in the heads of the teenage killers at Littleton
>but in terms of HOW they accomplished this tragedy, YES IT WAS THE GUNS.
>Over 50% of the murders in the US are done by handgun.
Not the Bible. Thats for sure.
The Liberal World.
No responsibility, let your kids do anything they want, sit back and
relax the school will teach them everything: sex, steeling, if
anything you feel is right do it, but never talk about the Bible, if
sonthing goes wrong just start blaming everyone else but yourself. And
people wonder why the world is like it is
michael burt
<n...@granite.net.au> wrote:
> You ignore Tibet. Until Chinese Invasion , Tibet's political leader was also
> it's spiritual leader. The 'evils' you mention below are not to be found
> there. If the world had to decide between the Pope and the Dalai Lama - gee,
> I know which one I would rather live under.
Why aren't you there with the Dalai Lama putting your actions where your
statements lie instead of here, in this terrible culture? I didn't say
that the Pope should be president, separation of church and state means
that society is being separated from God. That is clearly a prescription
for immorality, unethical behaviour, and unequal truth.
Vernon O
Outlaw husbands
Do not allow any guns whatever in a black, oriental or Hispanic
neighborhood.
You seem to have left out a few Politically Correct stats. Gee, not part of
your agenda.
Next thing you know, you are going to tell me that if you want to kill
someone that a gun is the most efficient weapon. Amazing, Sherlock,
amazing.
Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in message
news:grD93.13760$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> Maybe so, but I think the following statistics are much more
> straightforward. In fact, I'll let you interpret them yourself.
You have missed at least 99,999% of the statistics which could help.
Did you notice that 100% of the murders were by humans, the documented ones
anyway.
Where are the stats concerning gun ownership per capita compared to murders
per capita and the demographics? How many murders (relatively) were done by
owners of more that one gun? How many were by stolen guns? How many by
those who lawfully had a gun? (this is an example of what laws do for us if
not enforced)
> Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
> news:7k6po0$1eg$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com...
> >
> > michael burt <mike...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
Vernon O
> Having read what the Founding Fathers said about Christianity, what
> conclusion do you draw? Please tell me. What is the rest of the story?
A couple of clues.
1. A deist does not beleive in a personal God.
2. A deist does not pray to God
3. A deist does not expect or ask for intervntion by God in the "affairs of
man"
Astalis
>
> I don't know what is was in the heads of the teenage killers at Littleton
> but in terms of HOW they accomplished this tragedy, YES IT WAS THE GUNS.
> Over 50% of the murders in the US are done by handgun.
Hmm...funny. I thought it was the individual
who merely used the gun as a means to kill.
Astalis
--
"And yet there is a time
For everything that's under heaven.
A time to run, a time to stand and fight.
So in the face in cold despair,
No matter what seems right,
Remember darkness drives us to the light..."
**from Michael Card's "Under the Sun"**
-----------------------
astalis at epsi dot net
ICQ! Num: 2453141#
-----------------------
Vernon O
American carnage discussions
1. Which country in Western civilization has the least number of homicides
per ten thousand population.?
2. Which country has the least number of gun deaths per ten thousand?
3. Which country has the least number of armed assaults per ten thousand?
4. Which country has the highest number of guns owned per ten thousand?
5. What is the strongest and enforced gun law in the country of 4 above?
6. Which country has no concealed weapons laws, for anyone?
7. Which country requires every citizen to be trained in the use of guns?
8. Which country requires every citizen to own and if possible carry a gun?
Could it be possible that the same country is the answer to each and every
one of the above questions?
Yes.
Paul Browning <ps...@home.com> wrote in message
news:grD93.13760$eF3....@news.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> Maybe so, but I think the following statistics are much more
> straightforward. In fact, I'll let you interpret them yourself.
>
> Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
Paul Browning
Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
news:7k8fkv$bo3$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
Paul Browning
than say nonsensical things to divert attention from what I say. What I've
shown is that more than 50% of the murders in our country are committed by
handguns. Logically, that would say that we need to do something to reduce
the number of handguns. You don't seem to agree. Prove your argument.
This isn't about political correctness. This is about the murder of our
kids. I do have statistics to show that the age of the killer and the age
of the victim is going down but I don't think I want to play this game
anymore in which I make rational arguments backed up by facts and you reply
with irrational statements like 100% of the murders were committed by
humans. That really a great deal to the discussion. So, why don't you
provide the other 99,999% of the facts?
Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
news:7k8fdh$bmt$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
Paul Browning
little eye opener.
In 1996, handguns were used to murder 2 people in New Zealand, 15 in Japan,
30 in Great Britain, 106 in Canada, 213 in Germany, and 9,390 in the United
States.
Vernon O <ver...@contractor.net> wrote in message
news:7k95ut$go7$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
Paul Browning
Evangelism, not arguing about political issues, would be much more effective
for us and for our country.
The DOOMaster dugie3 <dug...@email.com> wrote in message
news:37685be9...@news.globalweb.net...