passing on traditions to stay alive
fke
>
> From sobertoday <we12x12...@yahoo.com.invalid>:
>
> > I try to share my experience strength and hope in the
> > responsible manner that coinsides with are traditions.
>
> The traditions never kept anyone sober (despite what NA claims).
yeah, despite that NA never claimed as much either.
duh.
>
> Sponsors never kept anyone sober (despite what NA claims).
ibid
>
> Seeking God through the Steps keeps people sober.
you talking about a 6 step program, right?
heck, it's okay if all you need is god...
you dont need a twelve step fellowship...
and that's okay, too.
but stop whining about what you dont need.
it makes you look like a whiner.
actually, it makes you a whiner.
Alan C. Sanderson Jnr.
<does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com> wrote in message:
> From sobertoday:
>
> > I try to share my experience strength and hope in the
> > responsible manner that coinsides with are traditions.
>
> The traditions never kept anyone sober (despite what NA claims).
If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
I heard a quote a while ago 'The steps stop us from killing ourselves, The
traditions stop us from killing others'
> Sponsors never kept anyone sober (despite what NA claims).
And who showed you how to work the steps?
> Seeking God through the Steps keeps people sober.
One true statement.
I believe my Higher Power works through other addicts, importantly my
sponsor who knows bullshit when he hears it.
> The traditions are a canard, just are sponsors.
>
> The steps are where it's at.
Alan S.
'Social Acceptability does not equal recover.'
Alan S.
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com
> If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run it at the
highest level. NA is patently not based on God because God is being removed
from NA as you speak.
> I heard a quote a while ago 'The steps stop us from killing ourselves, The
> traditions stop us from killing others'
How trite, and mistaken.
> And who showed you how to work the steps?
Not a sponsor. Not NA. The BB of AA.
> > Seeking God through the Steps keeps people sober.
>
> One true statement.
> I believe my Higher Power works through other addicts, importantly my
> sponsor who knows bullshit when he hears it.
One false statement. Your higher power is not God. If He were, then you would
call Him God rather than the diluted higher power of NA.
Your sponsor is not godly, righteous, or sober, and just as much an asshole and
full of shit as your are Alan S. because of the manure you preach here.
fke
<sand...@one.net.au> wrote:
>
><does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com> wrote in message:
>> From sobertoday:
>>
>> > I try to share my experience strength and hope in the
>> > responsible manner that coinsides with are traditions.
>>
>> The traditions never kept anyone sober (despite what NA claims).
>
>If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
>I heard a quote a while ago 'The steps stop us from killing ourselves, The
>traditions stop us from killing others'
amen brother ben.
support the traditions and na world service
i'm a member of na world service
and fly around to service conferences several times a year
keep putting your extra money in the basket
to carry the message to the still suffering addict
fke
Tom'sQ
It's called the woogie wave
> /'_/)
> ,/_ /
> / /
> /'_'/' '/'__'7,
> /'/ / / /"
> ('( ' ' _~/
> \ '
> '\' \ _7
> \ (
> \ ©
> Alan S.
> 'Social acceptability does not equal recovery.'
>
>
damian
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
Yeah, take that, Alan! You just got told off by a guy in a dress! Ha!
>From "Alan C. Sanderson Jnr." <sand...@one.net.au>:
>
>> If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
>
>That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run it at the
>highest level. NA is patently not based on God because God is being removed
>from NA as you speak.
>
>> I heard a quote a while ago 'The steps stop us from killing ourselves, The
>> traditions stop us from killing others'
>
>How trite, and mistaken.
>
>> And who showed you how to work the steps?
>
>Not a sponsor. Not NA. The BB of AA.
>
>> > Seeking God through the Steps keeps people sober.
>>
>> One true statement.
>
>> I believe my Higher Power works through other addicts, importantly my
>> sponsor who knows bullshit when he hears it.
>
>One false statement. Your higher power is not God. If He were, then you would
>call Him God rather than the diluted higher power of NA.
>
>Your sponsor is not godly, righteous, or sober, and just as much an asshole and
>full of shit as your are Alan S. because of the manure you preach here.
-
At first I thought, "How could women be from
Venus? It's got an atmosphere of poisonous gas!"
And then I made the connection: potpourri!
Kimba
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
> NA is patently not based on God because God is being removed
>from NA as you speak.
Patently...
Sigh.
Hi Ace.
Kimba
You did then what you knew how to do; and when you knew better, you did
better.
- Maya Angelou
remove "golightly" to reply
Reese
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
>From "Alan C. Sanderson Jnr." <sand...@one.net.au>:
>
>> If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
>
>That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run it at the
>highest level. NA is patently not based on God because God is being removed
>from NA as you speak.
Well, they're trying to do it, and I'd just as soon they be
successful. That way we can have two NA's.
>> I heard a quote a while ago 'The steps stop us from killing ourselves, The
>> traditions stop us from killing others'
>
>How trite, and mistaken.
Really, not just trite and mistaken, but incredibly sill as well.
It's interesting that the pro-wso service types in NA have nothing to
say about wso violating the Traditions even now by going around to law
enforcement conventions and treatment conventions and "marketing" NA.
"Marketing" is their word.
>> And who showed you how to work the steps?
>
>Not a sponsor. Not NA. The BB of AA.
The BB of AA is far superior to all NA literature.
Reese
fke
hi.
Do you ever go on the IRC? I wouldn't mind meeting some new women to cyber
with.
Send me a picture. I will pass it on to my sponsee's. If its quality.
fke
Alan S.
<does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com> wrote in message:
> From "Alan S." <sand...@one.net.au>:
>
> > If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
>
> That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run it
at the
> highest level. NA is patently not based on God because God is being
removed
> from NA as you speak.
>
The
> > traditions stop us from killing others'
>
> How trite, and mistaken.
>
>
> Not a sponsor. Not NA. The BB of AA.
>
> >
> > One true statement.
>
> > I believe my Higher Power works through other addicts, importantly my
> > sponsor who knows bullshit when he hears it.
>
> One false statement. Your higher power is not God. If He were, then you
would
> call Him God rather than the diluted higher power of NA.
>
> Your sponsor is not godly, righteous, or sober, and just as much an
asshole and
> full of shit as your are Alan S. because of the manure you preach here.
fke
<kimbagol...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:00:14 -0700,
>does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
>
>> NA is patently not based on God because God is being removed
>>from NA as you speak.
>
>Patently...
>
>Sigh.
>
>Hi Ace.
hello kimba
throw your pussy up on the computer screen
so i can get a sniff of that sweet stuff
fke
Alan S.
"Reese" wrote in message:
> does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
>
> >From "Alan S."
> >
> >> If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
> >
> >That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run it
at the
removed
> >from NA as you speak.
>
> successful. That way we can have two NA's.
>
The
> >> traditions stop us from killing others'
> >
> >How trite, and mistaken.
>
> It's interesting that the pro-wso service types in NA have nothing to
> say about wso violating the Traditions even now by going around to law
> enforcement conventions and treatment conventions and "marketing" NA.
> "Marketing" is their word.
You on one hand say the traditions are worthless and then on the other
accusse WSO for breaking them, Make up you mind are you for the traditions
or against the traditions.
> >> And who showed you how to work the steps?
> >
> >Not a sponsor. Not NA. The BB of AA.
>
> The BB of AA is far superior to all NA literature.
They made us buy a AA BB when I was in rehab.
Do know what I did with that BB when I got out of rehab.
Straight in the recycling bin.
My drinking never brought me to my knees like heroin did and as such I don't
relate to the AA's
I find The AA BBm to be one of the most boring books I have had the
displeasure to read in my life.
Personly, I find working the steps with the help of a sponsor and NA
literature to be supperior.
I did recovery the AA way in rehab. and it didn't cut it.
mungbean
People find their way - it may be by some crackpot sponsor, some meeting
filled with supposed wacko's might be the turning point, On it's own
the BB is nothing - so don't sit there and talk crap. It is the people
that carry the message, it is the people that keep AA alive - not a
book.
What happened to you to get you so angry. Everyone of your messages
comes from the mouth of a person who I would deem fits your owns
description - a Hypocrite. Get off your high horse and start helping
others. You seem to know the words so well.
Cheers
Your friend Piotr :)
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
>
> From "Alan C. Sanderson Jnr." <sand...@one.net.au>:
>
> > If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
>
> That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run it at the
> highest level. NA is patently not based on God because God is being removed
> from NA as you speak.
>
> > I heard a quote a while ago 'The steps stop us from killing ourselves, The
> > traditions stop us from killing others'
>
> How trite, and mistaken.
>
> > And who showed you how to work the steps?
>
> Not a sponsor. Not NA. The BB of AA.
>
> > > Seeking God through the Steps keeps people sober.
> >
> > One true statement.
>
> > I believe my Higher Power works through other addicts, importantly my
> > sponsor who knows bullshit when he hears it.
>
> One false statement. Your higher power is not God. If He were, then you would
> call Him God rather than the diluted higher power of NA.
>
> Your sponsor is not godly, righteous, or sober, and just as much an asshole and
> full of shit as your are Alan S. because of the manure you preach here.
--
I used up all my sick days so I called in dead
Tom'sQ
--
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
/'_'/' '/'__'7,
/'/ / / /"
('( ' ' _~/
\ '
'\' \ _7
\ (
\ ©
"mungbean" <mung...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:38855B2C...@ihug.co.nz...
mungbean
Cheers and good luck Tom
just the facts
sometimes I get horny, and It is to cold in canada
to go out..
eman
damian wrote in message <861sg...@news1.newsgoo.com>...
>There's lies, damn lies, and what, yes and what?
>does-not-share-his pictures with others @usenetpost.com wrote:
>
>Yeah, take that, Alan! You just got told off by a guy in a dress! Ha!
on the road called life
I ran over myself
eman
Ian
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote in message
<861o1j$d3a$1...@dosa.alt.net>...
>From "Alan C. Sanderson Jnr." <sand...@one.net.au>:
>
>> If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
>
>That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run it
at the
>highest level. NA is patently not based on God because God is being
removed
>from NA as you speak.
>
>> I heard a quote a while ago 'The steps stop us from killing ourselves,
The
>> traditions stop us from killing others'
>
>How trite, and mistaken.
>
>> And who showed you how to work the steps?
>
>Not a sponsor. Not NA. The BB of AA.
>
>> > Seeking God through the Steps keeps people sober.
>>
>> One true statement.
>
>> I believe my Higher Power works through other addicts, importantly my
>> sponsor who knows bullshit when he hears it.
>
>One false statement. Your higher power is not God. If He were, then you
would
>call Him God rather than the diluted higher power of NA.
>
>Your sponsor is not godly, righteous, or sober, and just as much an asshole
and
>full of shit as your are Alan S. because of the manure you preach here.
pot....kettle....pot.....kettle *sigh* I can see another one of THESE
flame wars starting...who was it last time dk vs REEs?..... jazz vs Dam? oh
well SSDD
Ian
Alan S. wrote in message <3885...@pink.one.net.au>...
>> >
>> >That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run
it
>at the
>> >highest level. NA is patently not based on God because God is being
>removed
>> >from NA as you speak.
>>
>> successful. That way we can have two NA's.
>>
>The
>> >> traditions stop us from killing others'
>> >
>> >How trite, and mistaken.
>>
>> It's interesting that the pro-wso service types in NA have nothing to
>> say about wso violating the Traditions even now by going around to law
>> enforcement conventions and treatment conventions and "marketing" NA.
>> "Marketing" is their word.
>
>You on one hand say the traditions are worthless and then on the other
>accusse WSO for breaking them, Make up you mind are you for the traditions
>or against the traditions.
>
>> >
>> >Not a sponsor. Not NA. The BB of AA.
>>
>
>They made us buy a AA BB when I was in rehab.
>Do know what I did with that BB when I got out of rehab.
>Straight in the recycling bin.
>My drinking never brought me to my knees like heroin did and as such I
don't
>relate to the AA's
>I find The AA BBm to be one of the most boring books I have had the
>displeasure to read in my life.
>Personly, I find working the steps with the help of a sponsor and NA
>literature to be supperior.
>I did recovery the AA way in rehab. and it didn't cut it.
>
>Alan S.
>'Social acceptability does not equal recovery.'
>
The point you make about AA recovery not bieng good enough for an addict is
one that i agree with you on. I've had similar experiances..AA is good
background material...but to truly put the "disease" under the light takes a
another addict AND the steps the NA way
>
fke
>
> That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run it at the
> highest level.
what planet do you live on?
get off that planet..
youre the only one that's adulating...
ownership by resentment or reverence...
unfortunately, ownership by resentment is the easier,
softer excuse for staying sick.
> NA is patently not based on God because God is being removed
> from NA as you speak.
dude,
you are not mel gibson
this is not a conspiracy.
>
> > I heard a quote a while ago 'The steps stop us from killing ourselves, The
> > traditions stop us from killing others'
>
> How trite, and mistaken.
as we speak, right?
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?
cripes
> > And who showed you how to work the steps?
>
> Not a sponsor. Not NA. The BB of AA.
so work the steps of AA
stop whining about what you didnt choose.
do you whine about not being able to drink, too?
> > > Seeking God through the Steps keeps people sober.
> >
> > One true statement.
>
> > I believe my Higher Power works through other addicts, importantly my
> > sponsor who knows bullshit when he hears it.
>
> One false statement. Your higher power is not God. If He were, then you would
> call Him God rather than the diluted higher power of NA.
did you change the steps of NA?
i think NA's steps have the word God in them...
maybe it's just your christian fundamentalism that's got you confused.
>
> Your sponsor is not godly,
so who gives the sponsor life?
satan?
you?
everready?
talk about preaching.
i thought you guys were gonna make a hit on new years eve
Alan S.
"Ian" <ian...@home.com> wrote in message
> The point you make about AA recovery not bieng good enough for an addict
is
> one that i agree with you on. I've had similar experiances..AA is good
> background material...but to truly put the "disease" under the light takes
a
> another addict AND the steps the NA way
Exactamondo!!!
Addicts know where addicts are commin from.
Addicts who have been in recovery for a while can show newcommer addicts how
to work the steps and recover.
Derek M.
>
>"Reese" wrote in message:
>> does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
>>
>> >From "Alan S."
>> >
>> >> If the traditions weren't there NA might not be around today.
>> >
>> >That would be a good thing: NA exists solely to adulate those who run it
>at the
>> >highest level. NA is patently not based on God because God is being
>removed
>> >from NA as you speak.
>>
>> Well, they're trying to do it, and I'd just as soon they be
>> successful. That way we can have two NA's.
I like that. Two NAs--one for falling through cracks, and one for
cleaning up the mess! Peuuuu!
Derek
http://derekm.home.mindspring.com
http://www.bannerdudes.com/fransway
> Maybe I should just try Morons Anonymous.
> Rebecca F.
>I know something that will help you not to talk so much.
>Take some approved literature and soak it. Then make a paper
>mache buttplug and stick in your ass.
>Rebecca F.
>I've never posted anything offensive.
>Rebecca F.
>Why don't you just fart in balloons and sell them to perverts?
>Rebecca F. (on how she makes money)
http://members.xoom.com/tascna
http://listen.to/recovery
http://elmo.simplenet.com/spktapes.htm (AA speaker tapes)
tom_c
<mung...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> You must be very well - maybe i should hope I get what you have.
> Cheers and good luck Tom
> Tom'sQ wrote:
TomQ is an active addict, he doesn't have any intentions of stopping.
The punkass kid doesn't need luck, he needs a meeting and some pussy.
Seems he even lied about sandra and the dead kid. His lies are all
catching up to him now. No wonder he won't go to meetings, afraid to
look people in the eye.
TomC
-
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Doc
>
>
> TomQ is an active addict, he doesn't have any intentions of stopping.
> The punkass kid doesn't need luck, he needs a meeting and some pussy.
>
Tom
He needs to go to a meeting to get some pussy. Thats what meetings are
for.Even if its stank, cause stank pussy is better than none at all. If you
can't get any pussy, a good lubed up brown eye will do in a pinch. Cover it with
Sardine oil , and its will smell like good eating pussy.
Doc.
Tom'sQ
>
> >Addicts who have been in recovery for a while can show newcommer addicts
how
> >to work the steps and recover.
>
> Amen.
>
>
> Reese
Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are different
diseases?
Just curious..
Reese
wrote:
>
>"Ian" <ian...@home.com> wrote in message
>
>> The point you make about AA recovery not bieng good enough for an addict
>is
>> one that i agree with you on. I've had similar experiances..AA is good
>> background material...but to truly put the "disease" under the light takes
>a
>> another addict AND the steps the NA way
>
>Exactamondo!!!
>Addicts know where addicts are commin from.
Oh, alcohol ain't a drug?
Reese
wrote:
>> Really, not just trite and mistaken, but incredibly sill as well.
>> It's interesting that the pro-wso service types in NA have nothing to
>> say about wso violating the Traditions even now by going around to law
>> enforcement conventions and treatment conventions and "marketing" NA.
>> "Marketing" is their word.
>
>You on one hand say the traditions are worthless and then on the other
>accusse WSO for breaking them, Make up you mind are you for the traditions
>or against the traditions.
And you're saying the Traditions are great and that they must not be
broken.
But when wso breaks them, it's just fine by you.
>They made us buy a AA BB when I was in rehab.
>Do know what I did with that BB when I got out of rehab.
>Straight in the recycling bin.
I give the AA Big Book to newcomers in NA. It's half the price of the
Basic Text and twice as good.
>My drinking never brought me to my knees like heroin did and as such I don't
>relate to the AA's
That's because you're focusing on the drug.
>I find The AA BBm to be one of the most boring books I have had the
>displeasure to read in my life.
>Personly, I find working the steps with the help of a sponsor and NA
>literature to be supperior.
>I did recovery the AA way in rehab. and it didn't cut it.
Excuse me, but the 12 Steps are the AA way. NA uses those Steps only
with AA's permission.
Reese
Chris
> Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are different
> diseases?
>
> Just curious.
Our addiction comes from missing enzymes. The molecules in our bodies have to
modify their structure in order to deal with the onslaught of the alcohol for
which they have no protection. After this process has taken place, you are an
addict: you need the alcohol.
Sure, you can be addicted to other things, but that's another story...
Tom'sQ
First off, notice that this was crossposted to araa , and arna. I was just
pointing out that there are differences between alcoholism, and addiction.
For example, I know a couple alcoholics who accasionaly smoke a joint. It
doesnt send them on a dender, it doesnt destroy theire lives, but I've yet
to see the same expirement reproduces successfully by an addict
"Chris" <fourni...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:38869DE3...@erols.com...
Chris
have a few rare drinks after having been sober for a while, you can. The fact
that you drank wont make you an addict. The belief that you can drink again
'normally' will destroy you.
Tom'sQ
alcohol
<.@.com> wrote in message news:3886A024.2E8F@.com...
> Tom'sQ wrote:
> >
> >
> > For example, I know a couple alcoholics who accasionaly smoke a joint.
It
> > doesnt send them on a dender, it doesnt destroy theire lives,
>
>
> hmmm,
>
> that's "bender" as in JACKPOT.
>
> Btw, *recovering* alcoholics who smoke dope r not sober.
>
> regards,
> Mike
>
> (7-1-84) AAkron, OH
> recovering...@juno.com
> welcome.to/AAkron
Tom'sQ
"Chris" <fourni...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3886A3E0...@erols.com...
> But the point is that it takes time to become an addict, and if you want
to
> have a few rare drinks after having been sober for a while, you can.
As for becoming an addict, well, I'm one of the guys who sits on the fence
in the was I an addict before I used or was I predisposed, or who knows. As
far as NArcotics Anonymous is concerned, Addiction is not about drugs, the
use of drugs and inability to stop is a manefestation of the disease, but
the disease itself is a mental, physical and spiritual one. Obsession,
Compulsion, and self centerdness to be exact. As far as becoming addicted
to particular substances, your argument is not valid there either, use
heroin for a week and tell me your not addicted, in fact, people seldomly
use heroin once.
Now, having a few rare drinks part, well truth is I see it destroy people in
NA all the time
> The fact
> that you drank wont make you an addict. The belief that you can drink
again
> 'normally' will destroy you.
That goes for alcoholism and addiction
>
>
>
fke
wrote:
>After this process has taken place, you are an
>addict: you need the alcohol.
i need some pussy
fke, wsc board member
fke
wrote:
>But the point is that it takes time to become an addict, and if you want to
>have a few rare drinks after having been sober for a while, you can. The fact
>that you drank wont make you an addict. The belief that you can drink again
>'normally' will destroy you.
i'd rather be destroyed
by some good pussy
fke
Reese
<mandra...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>> Oh, alcohol ain't a drug?
>>
>> >Addicts who have been in recovery for a while can show newcommer addicts
>how
>> >to work the steps and recover.
>>
>> God help them.
>> Amen.
>>
>>
>> Reese
>
>Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are different
>diseases?
>
>Just curious..
No. Unlike your buddy Alan, I believe what the Basic Text says about
that.
Reese
Tom'sQ
First, Alan aint no buddy, hes just sucking ass
Second, I'm not questioning wether or not alcohol is a grug, yes the basic
text adress's that. The BT doesnt adress alcoholism
"Reese" <x...@briefcase.com> wrote in message
news:389d9dd2...@news.newsguy.com...
Chris
> in the was I an addict before I used or was I predisposed, or who knows. As
> far as NArcotics Anonymous is concerned, Addiction is not about drugs, the
> use of drugs and inability to stop is a manefestation of the disease, but
> the disease itself is a mental, physical and spiritual one.
I show no signs of being addicted (except for pussy of course). Several years
after quitting, I am perfectly fine. No mental signs here (apart from the
heretofore addiction mentioned).
> Obsession,
> Compulsion, and self centerdness to be exact. As far as becoming addicted
> to particular substances, your argument is not valid there either, use
> heroin for a week and tell me your not addicted, in fact, people seldomly
> use heroin once.
We are not talking about heroin. There are no enzymes to protect anyone against
heroin. But most people are 'protected' from addiction to alcohol by enzymes we
are either missing, or have in insufficient quantities.
>
> Now, having a few rare drinks part, well truth is I see it destroy people in
> NA all the time
So you are saying it is only a matter of time before I drink again: after 7
years. Want to bet?
Got to go to bed! Talk to you tomorrow. Great group guys! Have fun!
Tom'sQ
--
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
/'_'/' '/'__'7,
/'/ / / /"
('( ' ' _~/
\ '
'\' \ _7
\ (
\ Š
"Chris" <fourni...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3886ADFB...@erols.com...
Chris
myself...
Tom'sQ
Chris here as well does it..
Must be all that spirituality
"Chris" <fourni...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3886B926...@erols.com...
Tom'sQ
"damian" <dam...@damomen.com> wrote in message
news:866fg...@news1.newsguy.com...
> There's lies, damn lies, and what, "Tom'sQ"
>
> >Now, having a few rare drinks part, well truth is I see it destroy people
in
> >NA all the time
>
> Yep. It's interesting the arfers and even some 12 step people claim
> this isn't true, but then, they haven't observed a fairly large sample
> size for a few years either.
>
>
damian
>
>
>
>"Chris" <fourni...@erols.com> wrote in message
>news:3886A3E0...@erols.com...
>> But the point is that it takes time to become an addict, and if you want
>to
>> have a few rare drinks after having been sober for a while, you can.
>
>
>As for becoming an addict, well, I'm one of the guys who sits on the fence
>in the was I an addict before I used or was I predisposed, or who knows. As
>far as NArcotics Anonymous is concerned, Addiction is not about drugs, the
>use of drugs and inability to stop is a manefestation of the disease, but
>the disease itself is a mental, physical and spiritual one. Obsession,
>Compulsion, and self centerdness to be exact.
Obsession with what? Compulsion to do what? NA is very much about
drugs.
Addiction is about drugs. That's a no-brainer dude.
> As far as becoming addicted
>to particular substances, your argument is not valid there either, use
>heroin for a week and tell me your not addicted, in fact, people seldomly
>use heroin once.
I used it once.
A day. hehehe.
>Now, having a few rare drinks part, well truth is I see it destroy people in
>NA all the time
Yep. It's interesting the arfers and even some 12 step people claim
this isn't true, but then, they haven't observed a fairly large sample
size for a few years either.
-
At first I thought, "How could women be from
Venus? It's got an atmosphere of poisonous gas!"
And then I made the connection: potpourri!
fke
> >Addicts who have been in recovery for a while can show newcommer addicts how
> >to work the steps and recover.
>
> God help them.
god duhs
duh
mungbean
is a back door there is always a way out. You keep referring to the
physical manifestations of the disease/s - how about the emotional -
hahaha - you would be a new comers dream come true ...hey don't worry -
don't drink, go to meetings and smoke pot ..get real.
Shall i wait for your finger again.
:)
Piotr
Tom'sQ wrote:
>
> Chris, thats the point.
>
> First off, notice that this was crossposted to araa , and arna. I was just
> pointing out that there are differences between alcoholism, and addiction.
>
> For example, I know a couple alcoholics who accasionaly smoke a joint. It
> doesnt send them on a dender, it doesnt destroy theire lives, but I've yet
> to see the same expirement reproduces successfully by an addict
>
> "Chris" <fourni...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:38869DE3...@erols.com...
> > >
> > > Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are
> different
> > > diseases?
> > >
> > > Just curious.
> >
> > Our addiction comes from missing enzymes. The molecules in our bodies have
> to
> > modify their structure in order to deal with the onslaught of the alcohol
> for
> > which they have no protection. After this process has taken place, you
> are an
> > addict: you need the alcohol.
> >
> > Sure, you can be addicted to other things, but that's another story...
> >
--
I used up all my sick days so I called in dead
Tom'sQ
discussion on the disease model?
Anyhow, heres the woogie wave
--
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/'/ / / /"
('( ' ' _~/
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\ (
\ ©
"mungbean" <mung...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3886E555...@ihug.co.nz...
Tom'sQ
--
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
/'_'/' '/'__'7,
/'/ / / /"
('( ' ' _~/
\ '
'\' \ _7
\ (
\ ©
"mungbean" <mung...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3886EEF1...@ihug.co.nz...
> hahaha - What a winner TOM - as I said, I sure want what you have
whats that? balls to discuss issues which purists have deemed controversial?
>- Im
> so paranoid Tom that I just cant stop laughing - your emails sure make
> me laugh.
For the record, I dont email people from NewZealand
> But you are quite correct - you were not giving advice - you
> were simple stating your point of view.
But that wont stop you from spooting more bullshit will it?
> I mean the way you carry the
> message, mmmhhh
Do you mean that you dont have to be a mindless fuck to stay clean.. Hell
fuckin yeah
> Thanks for the finger - always enjoy to see someone with good recovery
> up their sleeve.
No problem, I put it in twice this time, one for you to look @ and one for
me to shove up your cornholing ass
>
> Cheers
> Your Fan
> Piotr
You must be from auckland
Tom'sQ
: your story in the big book.
They asked, I told them when they stop suing other alcoholics and selling
there souls, I'd consider it
Tom'sQ
Btw, go back to Motutapu Island.. your sticking up the menure here
Tom'sQ
them
\
Perhaps I can introduce you to doc muldoon, you seem to have a nutsack
pressure problem
> Your emails sure keep me learning TOM -
Again. I've never emailed you in my life..
> Such recovery - I am in awe.
Like a soudblaster awe64 and shit..sorry I upgraded to liveware..but you
wouldnt get that now would you
>
> Take care Winner
Sure thing mungbutt
>
jazzzman
> Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are different
> diseases?
ROFLMAO!
But they're not. Alcoholism IS addiction... to alcohol... duh.
--
jazzzman
http://members.home.com/tigernest/control.html
I've never had a humble opinion in my life.
If you're going to have one, why bother to be humble about it?
Joan Baez (b. 1941), U.S. singer.
International Herald Tribune (Paris, 2 Dec. 1992).
jazzzman
> >
> > Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are different
> > diseases?
> >
> > Just curious.
>
> Our addiction comes from missing enzymes. The molecules in our bodies have to
> modify their structure in order to deal with the onslaught of the alcohol for
> which they have no protection. After this process has taken place, you are an
> addict: you need the alcohol.
>
> Sure, you can be addicted to other things, but that's another story...
Close, but no cigar-
You're correct in saying that an alcoholic does not process alcohol in the same
way. The liver turns alcohol into acetaldehyde; for alcoholics, this combines
with dopamine in the brain to become tetrahydroisoquineline. In the brain, this
acts like the natural endorphins, and is probably the substance to which one
actually becomes addicted. It was experimented with as a pain killer, but is
highly addictive. It is also found in the brains of heroin addicts. With
stimulant addicts, the stimulants themselves act like dopamine and other
neurochemicals, and also stimulate the release of natural chemicals, depleting the
brain of its own supply. Behavioral addictions also create changes in brain
chemistry. Belonging to a group, or feeling that one belongs, creates positive
neurochemical changes.
In all cases, it appears to be the Dopamine Cascade Reward System that is
effected.
So there really is no difference between "addicts" and "alcoholics".
jazzzman
> As far as becoming addicted
> to particular substances, your argument is not valid there either, use
> heroin for a week and tell me your not addicted, in fact, people seldomly
> use heroin once.
Actually, that's a myth. The rate of addiction to heroin is not really higher
than the rate of addiction to alcohol.
People may not use it once, but many dabble and leave it alone.
jazzzman
> Obsession with what? Compulsion to do what? NA is very much about
> drugs.
> Addiction is about drugs. That's a no-brainer dude.
So what about gambling addicts? Sex addicts?
NA may be about drugs (though I would argue that, pointing to the 1st Step) but
addiction is not.
So much for your no-brainer...
damian
wrote:
>hahaha - What a winner TOM - as I said, I sure want what you have - Im
>so paranoid Tom that I just cant stop laughing - your emails sure make
>me laugh. But you are quite correct - you were not giving advice - you
>were simple stating your point of view. I mean the way you carry the
>message, mmmhhh - Keep up the good work TOM No doubt you will keep on
>growing - and who knows, you might grow so much that you can have the
>occasional spot or hell you might get really well again and start
>pinging.
Dude, what the fuck does any of this mean? I mean, you guys speak
English like we do here in the US, right? So why I don't I understand
your drivel?
Are you stupid or high or what?
ps, if you don't speak english a primary language, then there's your
excuse.
damian
wrote:
>damian wrote:
>
>
>> Obsession with what? Compulsion to do what? NA is very much about
>> drugs.
>> Addiction is about drugs. That's a no-brainer dude.
>
>So what about gambling addicts? Sex addicts?
Why the fuck would they come to Narcotics Anonymous, you fucking
moron? To stay celibate? How fucking stupid are you gonna get?
>NA may be about drugs (though I would argue that, pointing to the 1st Step)
Because you're a fucking idiot with the brains of a piece of smegma.
> but
>addiction is not.
>So much for your no-brainer...
You fucking idiot, you're in an NA newsgroup, what the fuck part of
'context' don't you understand?
Fuck, you're an idiot. No, I take that back.
You're a vavoso. That's Spanish for a drooling fucking idiot.
tom_c
wrote:
> "Tom'sQ" wrote in message:
> > "Chris" wrote in message:
> > Alan, your wishing fellow addicts dead seem to be catching on,
> Aparently
> Chris here as well does it..
> >
> > Must be all that spirituality
> >
> smoking, and
> > shooting
> > > myself...
> The man said if he were you he would kill himself. He nowhere
> wished you
> dead.
> Alan S.
> 'Social acceptability does not equal recovery.'
A using addict is almost the same as being dead anyways. If the USENET
were the hightlite of my day and only form of any outside contact as it
is for the punkass-kid, I'd be plenty scared too.
TomC
-
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Doc
Chris wrote:
> >
> > Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are different
> > diseases?
> >
> > Just curious.
>
> Our addiction comes from missing enzymes. The molecules in our bodies have to
> modify their structure in order to deal with the onslaught of the alcohol for
> which they have no protection. After this process has taken place, you are an
> addict: you need the alcohol.
>
> Sure, you can be addicted to other things, but that's another story...
Do you think I could be addicted to grade aa pussy?
Maybe Im just missing some enzymes.
I know Im not addicted to cornholing cause I can live without it.
doc
fke
Tom'sQ wrote:
> Chris, thats the point.
>
> First off, notice that this was crossposted to araa , and arna. I was just
> pointing out that there are differences between alcoholism, and addiction.
>
> For example, I know a couple alcoholics who accasionaly smoke a joint. It
> doesnt send them on a dender, it doesnt destroy theire lives, but I've yet
> to see the same expirement reproduces successfully by an addict
I know a couple of alcoholics who smoke my joint.
fke
--
邢 唷��
tom_c
<mung...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> and he is a whizz too - shame about his spelling (sticking up the
> menure) - wow just as well I didn't leave a message in the cross
> stitch
> news group.
The kid has got no recovery and no cleantime. He abuses his meds and
sits in his little computer room all day typing on the USENET. He makes
up stories about pussy he's had and lies about kids dying. He's a total
fraud. It's real sad actually, he just a scared piece of dogshit. Take
it from someone who knows the smart-mouthed punk asshole he really is.
fke
Reese wrote:
>
>
> >They made us buy a AA BB when I was in rehab.
> >Do know what I did with that BB when I got out of rehab.
> >Straight in the recycling bin.
>
> I give the AA Big Book to newcomers in NA. It's half the price of the
> Basic Text and twice as good.
>
Damn It Reese, Make them buy The NA text. Thats how they pay for for my travel
and expense accounts.
Don't forget our primary purpose, To carry the addict to the convention.
>
>
> Excuse me, but the 12 Steps are the AA way. NA uses those Steps only
> with AA's permission.
>
> Reese
The only thing wrong with AA's 12 steps are they mispelled the word addiction in
the 1st step.
fke
World Board Member, and all round Guru on recovery.
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com
Stop posting to this newsgroup (alt.recovery.aa); it has nothing whatsoever to
do with your subject matter.
You are also a stupid asshole.
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com
fke, stop posting to alt.recover.aa; it has nothing to do with your sexual
fantasies and severe personality disorder.
Ron Leigh
Chris wrote in message <3886A3E0...@erols.com>...
>But the point is that it takes time to become an addict,
Not so! I was addicted the very first time I got High.
>and if you want to have a few rare drinks after having been sober for a
while, you can.
>The belief that you can drink again 'normally' will destroy you.
Did I miss something here? Please think about what you just said.
kkos...@bsa.com
>
> hahaha - your advice sure is an open back door huh - as long as there
> is a back door there is always a way out. You keep referring to the
> physical manifestations of the disease/s - how about the emotional -
> hahaha - you would be a new comers dream come true ...hey don't worry -
> don't drink, go to meetings and smoke pot ..get real.
>
> Shall i wait for your finger again.
>
> :)
> Piotr
>
> >
> > Chris, thats the point.
> >
> > First off, notice that this was crossposted to araa , and arna. I was just
> > pointing out that there are differences between alcoholism, and addiction.
> >
> > For example, I know a couple alcoholics who accasionaly smoke a joint. It
> > doesnt send them on a dender, it doesnt destroy theire lives, but I've yet
> > to see the same expirement reproduces successfully by an addict
> >
> > different
> > > > diseases?
> > > >
> > > > Just curious.
> > >
> > > Our addiction comes from missing enzymes. The molecules in our bodies have
> > to
> > > modify their structure in order to deal with the onslaught of the alcohol
> > for
> > > which they have no protection. After this process has taken place, you
> > are an
> > > addict: you need the alcohol.
> > >
> > > Sure, you can be addicted to other things, but that's another story...
> > >
>
> I used up all my sick days so I called in dead
nz? figures
Ron Leigh
Alcoholics are ADDICTED to Alcohol. Some addicts never use Alcohol.
Alan S. wrote in message <3887...@pink.one.net.au>...
>
>"Reese" wrote in message
>
>> "Tom'sQ" wrote:
>>
>> >Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are
>different
>> >diseases?
>> >
>>
>> No. Unlike your buddy Alan, I believe what the Basic Text says about
>that.
>
>I didn't say they were seperate diseases, I believe Alcoholism and
Addiction
>to be one and the same.
>I said that I didn't relate to AA's. Learn to read.
fke
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
> From fke <msw...@nantucky.net>:
>
> >
> >
> > Tom'sQ wrote:
> >
> > > Chris, thats the point.
> > >
> > > First off, notice that this was crossposted to araa , and arna. I was just
> > > pointing out that there are differences between alcoholism, and addiction.
> > >
> > > For example, I know a couple alcoholics who accasionaly smoke a joint. It
> > > doesnt send them on a dender, it doesnt destroy theire lives, but I've yet
> > > to see the same expirement reproduces successfully by an addict
> >
> > I know a couple of alcoholics who smoke my joint.
> >
> > fke
>
> Stop posting to this newsgroup (alt.recovery.aa); it has nothing whatsoever to
> do with your subject matter.
I thought about it and my answer is ....Nope.
I really like AA is the best place to get pussy.
They are kinda ugly, and rode hard if you know what I mean.
They are the easiest to get. The best quality pussy are at NA meetings
>
>
> You are also a stupid asshole.
bring your asshole on over and I will show you how to cornhole proper!
fke
fke
David Kay wrote:
> <does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com> wrote:
>
> > Stop posting to this newsgroup (alt.recovery.aa); it has nothing
> whatsoever to
> > do with your subject matter.
>
> Hey look! JC II has appointed himself police chief of araa!
I just hope that I can get the kind of recovery he has .
Hey Davey, your mom was here looking for you.
fke
fke
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
> From Doc <funs...@cornhole.net>:
>
> >
> >
> > Chris wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are
> different
> > > > diseases?
> > > >
> > > > Just curious.
> > >
> > > Our addiction comes from missing enzymes. The molecules in our bodies have
> to
> > > modify their structure in order to deal with the onslaught of the alcohol
> for
> > > which they have no protection. After this process has taken place, you are
> an
> > > addict: you need the alcohol.
> > >
> > > Sure, you can be addicted to other things, but that's another story...
> >
> > Do you think I could be addicted to grade aa pussy?
> > Maybe Im just missing some enzymes.
> > I know Im not addicted to cornholing cause I can live without it.
> > doc
>
> fke, stop posting to alt.recover.aa; it has nothing to do with your sexual
> fantasies and severe personality disorder.
I get most of my sexually fansties from AA meetings.
I was at a AA meeting last, and a gal got her 1 year chip.
I knew her sponsor would unlock her pussy, They always lock them
down for a year. I had stand in line , but the action was good. it was good tight
snapper
fke
Chris
there are other factors explaining the addiction, but if you had the enzymes in the
first place, you would never get to the point you mention.
jazzzman wrote:
> Close, but no cigar-
> You're correct in saying that an alcoholic does not process alcohol in the same
> way. The liver turns alcohol into acetaldehyde; for alcoholics, this combines
> with dopamine in the brain to become tetrahydroisoquineline. In the brain, this
> acts like the natural endorphins, and is probably the substance to which one
> actually becomes addicted. It was experimented with as a pain killer, but is
> highly addictive. It is also found in the brains of heroin addicts. With
> stimulant addicts, the stimulants themselves act like dopamine and other
> neurochemicals, and also stimulate the release of natural chemicals, depleting the
> brain of its own supply. Behavioral addictions also create changes in brain
> chemistry. Belonging to a group, or feeling that one belongs, creates positive
> neurochemical changes.
>
> In all cases, it appears to be the Dopamine Cascade Reward System that is
> effected.
>
> So there really is no difference between "addicts" and "alcoholics".
>
unjon harley
.
damian wrote:
.
Obsession with what? Compulsion to do what? NA is very much about drugs.
Addiction is about drugs. That's a no-brainer dude.
.
So what about gambling addicts? Sex addicts? NA may be about drugs
(though I would argue that, pointing to the 1st Step) but addiction is
not.
So much for your no-brainer...
--
jazzzman
.
\
Your obsession to pull you dick and throw you money away still has
nothing to do w/NA.......Alcohol is a drug and alcoholism is addiction
to it. Again NA is about drugs.
Addiction is about drugs. (In NA)
Jon B.
Work like you don't need money, Love like you've never been hurt,and
Dance like no one's watching
Chris
I know, I know, there must be something wrong with me...
Tom'sQ wrote:
> Alan, your wishing fellow addicts dead seem to be catching on, Aparently
> Chris here as well does it..
>
> Must be all that spirituality
>
> "Chris" <fourni...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:3886B926...@erols.com...
Chris
accepted that I might be so, but I wanted to make sure. I believe it is the
single most distructive behaviour at AA: you are powerless, powerless to help 85
percent of alcoholics, powerless to get rid of the addiction. At best, you are
able to substitute the meeting for the bar.
I don't mind being humble (if I can) but not powerless...
The same goes with anonymous. Have you ever heard of DA (Diabetics Anonymous)?
You are powerless to show the world that alcoholism is not something to be
ashamed of, because you are ashamed. Well, I'm not ashamed and apparently not
powerless (I do agree with one day at a time and a lot of other things you guys
do: but I do believe you need a wake up call. Your work is based on what 2 great
guys did 50 years ago when nobody knew anything about the problem.
"Alan S." wrote:
> Except that the alcoholics in AA choose to focus on a substance and not the
> disease i.e 'We admitted that we were powerless over Alcohol - That our
> lives had become unmanageable.'
Tom'sQ
I'll go with your first post thank you very muchnews:3887C675...@erols.com...
jmkelley
$PM.1...@wagner.videotron.net>, "Tom'sQ"
<mandra...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and
alcoholism are different
>diseases?
You apparently have no knowledge of the recent research
which has proven that the same Dopamine receptors in the
brain are involved in ALL addiction, including that of
compulsive gambling.
Never could understand why it is more fasionable to get
drunk on champgane than on beer, or why one addict will
try to tell another that it is more trendy to be a alave
to cocaine than it is to some other drug.
Addiction is addiction, period, be it to alcohol or some
other drug....and YES alcohol is a drug. It is a
sedative/hypnotic drug just as are tranquilizers and
phenobarbital.
Those who cannot understand the Big Book are folks who are
incapable of committing the act of critical thinking and
also folks who cannot understand abstract thought.
It was written in code as epic sagas in the English
language have been, namely Beowulf. Eyes will slide over
the phrases with large words in them until the meaning
of those same words is made clear.
Some minds just will not work hard at anything, including
sobriety.
Jane
>
>
>
In article <pawh4.2564
$PM.1...@wagner.videotron.net>, "Tom'sQ"
<mandra...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>> Oh, alcohol ain't a drug?
>>
>> >Addicts who have been in recovery for a while can show
newcommer addicts
>how
>> >to work the steps and recover.
>>
>> God help them.
>> Amen.
>>
>>
>> Reese
>
>Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and
alcoholism are different
>diseases?
>
>Just curious..
jmkelley
>have a few rare drinks after having been sober for a
>that you drank wont make you an addict. The belief that
you can drink again
>'normally' will destroy you.
>
you keep presenting in this thread? You have part of
the information yet you manage to twist it around to
a bizzre renditon of what you must have originally heard
or read.
NO addict can safely use again any substance to which he
or she has become addicted. No one. That included
beverage alcohol for those we call alcoholics.
It also includes any drug in the same sedative/hypnotic
class as the alcohol such as tranquilizers and sleeping
pills. Takes only a few days of use to become very
much addicted with a period of withdrawal after the use
of these is stopped.
Many doctors do not know this when they stupdily prescribe
either for patients who are not being monitored. Then
they wonder why the person is unable to stop drinking!
There is much more to staying sober than just quitting the
use of any substance.
Jane
>
>
In article <3886A3E0...@erols.com>, Chris
<fourni...@erols.com> wrote:
>But the point is that it takes time to become an addict,
and if you want to
>have a few rare drinks after having been sober for a
while, you can. The fact
>that you drank wont make you an addict. The belief that
you can drink again
>'normally' will destroy you.
>
>
>
>
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Tom'sQ
"Chris" <fourni...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3887C56D...@erols.com...
| That is why I never joined AA. I was terrified of admitting to be
powerless. I
| accepted that I might be so, but I wanted to make sure.
Well, to work the steps ya kinda gotta be sure right?
| I believe it is the
| single most distructive behaviour at AA: you are powerless, powerless to
help 85
| percent of alcoholics, powerless to get rid of the addiction. At best, you
are
| able to substitute the meeting for the bar.
NOt nescesarly. I know I just usually flame you, but this is worth
discussing
Current guesstimates are that AA has a much smaller success rate than 15%.
But.. does that mean the program is useless? Humm, Not in my opinion, Same
thing goes for NA, as far as I'm concerned, its cool that its there for the
people who can bvenifit from it, myself included.
About the disease, well truth is, I question the disease model myself. I do
know that when I start getting loaded, it's near impossible to stop. I've
also burried a few people my age whove relapsed, or never got clean. I'm 23.
harsh way to die. just found out today that someone else I know died, not a
friend, but a young woman from our area. Its sad. thats why powerlessness
over the disease is taken to heart, it lets me know not to start using, and
also what happens to people who dont believe that, or chose to ignore it.
As far as substituting meetings for a bar, well, I disagree. I'll agree that
many people do that, but thats not where recovery is @. In fact, I
personnaly belive a meeting is where 12th step work is to be done. Not to
shit out your lifes problems. Suport from other addicts, God, and the BT/BB
while working the steps is the answer., then trying to help others is the
followup.
|
| I don't mind being humble (if I can) but not powerless...
|
| The same goes with anonymous. Have you ever heard of DA (Diabetics
Anonymous)?
| You are powerless to show the world that alcoholism is not something to be
| ashamed of, because you are ashamed.
Well, we can argue till were blue in the face, but the traditions are there
for a reason, and specific events led to them. As far as anonimity is
concerned, one of the ideas is "putting principles before personalities" in
other words, listen to the message not the messenger. Another would be that
its a God giuven program, so who could really represent it. And lasty,
imagine anyone quasi famous, they come to get clean/sober, they do well for
a while, they go on Oprah, and talk about being in AA/NA.. then they slip..
Hell ya dont have to imagine, its happened..
At the end of the day, all it does is tangle AA/NA with stuff it has no
buisness in
| Well, I'm not ashamed and apparently not
| powerless (I do agree with one day at a time and a lot of other things you
guys
| do: but I do believe you need a wake up call. Your work is based on what 2
great
| guys did 50 years ago when nobody knew anything about the problem.
Well, actually, there were about 140 people writing the original manuscript
of the big book, Bill transcribed it, and yeah, he may have had an ego trip.
But remember, up till that point, there really was no solution for that
brand of alcoholic.
The other thing to remember, and somethign that AA freely admits in the big
book, is they have no monopoly on recovery/sobriety or spirituality. Just a
blend that works for a specific type fo drunk. Hell, I know guys who used to
coke up and drink in a way harsh way, but now just have a beer now and then
or maybe smoke some dope. I'm told they have been doing this for almost 20
years
Again, AA/NA isnt for everyone, and I get pissed at people who try to say it
is, BUt with membership the way it is,, and it having saved my life, I have
to say it works for some. Me included. And that is whats important There are
many other types of recovery programs.treatments/therapys.. And if they work
for people I'm all for them.. If anyone ever finds an outright "cure" for
addiction/alcoholism, I'll go buy a 40 and an ounce of grass.. lol
|
Chris
it myself?:->
Great answer! AA is not for me but I do agree that you help a lot of people. I
want to try and help the ones you can do nothing for. When someone goes to AA
and doesn't like it, does he just go back to the streets? Do you have other
alternatives? I would like to meet those people and see if I can help. Can you
help me do that?
tom_c
<mandra...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> Well Chris, the truth is, I preffer be dead than be shooting junk
> again.
The truth? A liar claiming he's telling the truth. That's what Sandra
said too. And the truth is she kicked your using ass outta her life.
She's got more brains in her little clit than you and the Shithead have
combined.
TomC
-
Chris
jmkelley wrote:
In article <pawh4.2564
$PM.1...@wagner.videotron.net>, "Tom'sQ"
Also, there is more to the ability to reason than simple abstract thought. My dog is capable of abstract thought but mostly unable to derive consequence from cause...
Chris
alcoholics who had put their lives back together and who started drinking
again after 8 years or so of sobriety. To me it is unbelievable unless they
mistook their illness for a mental disease. After they stopped drinking for
a long time, they stopped alucinating, stopped being paranoid and started
living. And they thought, that it must have been a momentary laps of reason
and surely the next time they would be able to control their drinking
because they thought it was mental. If you know it is not mental but
biological, then you know you cannot take the gamble, you know you will
never drink normally, therefore you can have a drink occasionally.
Ron Leigh wrote:
> Chris wrote in message <3886A3E0...@erols.com>...
> >But the point is that it takes time to become an addict,
>
> Not so! I was addicted the very first time I got High.
>
> >and if you want to have a few rare drinks after having been sober for a
> while, you can.
>
> >The belief that you can drink again 'normally' will destroy you.
>
Tom'sQ
| Does that mean I'm not going to get the finger anymore? I'm going to have
to do
| it myself?:->
Dont be kidding yourself now. I'm sure you'll do something that deserves the
woogie wave again
|
| Great answer! AA is not for me but I do agree that you help a lot of
people. I
| want to try and help the ones you can do nothing for. When someone goes to
AA
| and doesn't like it, does he just go back to the streets? Do you have
other
| alternatives? I would like to meet those people and see if I can help. Can
you
| help me do that?
Well the first problem is I'm in MOntreal, and your God nows where.
Secondly, I dont goto meetings..often anyhow
But, there are RR (rational Recovery) and tons of other stuff, a quick
search on the web would do the trick. there are even programs such as
Moderation Management, but even they admit, is not for most. Do a little
hunting on the web and usenet, I'm sure you'll find plenty.
Now if you run some type of recovery program, advertising it here would be
just as obnoxious as me going to alt.recovery.from12steps and bantering
about NA/AA
|
| Tom'sQ wrote:
|
damian
<mandra...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>> I just enjoy reading your wisdom. As for you balls - you had better keep
>them
>\
>Perhaps I can introduce you to doc muldoon, you seem to have a nutsack
>pressure problem
>
>> Your emails sure keep me learning TOM -
>
>Again. I've never emailed you in my life..
>
>> Such recovery - I am in awe.
>
>Like a soudblaster awe64 and shit..sorry I upgraded to liveware..but you
>wouldnt get that now would you
Umm...never mind.
-
At first I thought, "How could women be from
Venus? It's got an atmosphere of poisonous gas!"
And then I made the connection: potpourri!
Chris
Tom'sQ wrote:
Now why is that? We are not competing. We are not even after the same market.
Morever, we certainly aren't doing it for the glory. So why not help each other
in that way also? Or is it true that the egos are flying high at AA and people
are protecting their turf?
In any case, I enjoyed our little chat. Have fun!
damian
wrote:
>damian wrote:
>
>> >> Obsession with what? Compulsion to do what? NA is very much about
>> >> drugs.
>> >> Addiction is about drugs. That's a no-brainer dude.
>> >
>> >So what about gambling addicts? Sex addicts?
>>
>> Why the fuck would they come to Narcotics Anonymous, you fucking
>> moron? To stay celibate? How fucking stupid are you gonna get?
>>
>> >NA may be about drugs (though I would argue that, pointing to the 1st Step)
>>
>> Because you're a fucking idiot with the brains of a piece of smegma.
>>
>> > but
>> >addiction is not.
>> >So much for your no-brainer...
>>
>> You fucking idiot, you're in an NA newsgroup, what the fuck part of
>> 'context' don't you understand?
>> Fuck, you're an idiot. No, I take that back.
>> You're a vavoso. That's Spanish for a drooling fucking idiot.
>
>Gee dam, no need to get upset... you were the one who said (and I quote)
>>> Addiction is about drugs. That's a no-brainer dude.
> ^^^^^^^
>
>Nothing about NA there.....
You're in an NA newsgroup, vavoso. What the hell else would we be
referring to besides drugs?
>I see you completely avoided the Step One issue, too.
Read Step one in IWH&W. Think about what brought your fat ass to NA.
No. not the Ho-Ho's. The dope, dope.
>Hey, but if you want to continue to show what you're made of, go for it....
>
>talk about bitter......
.....talk about a fucking moron.
damian
wrote:
>unjon harley wrote:
>
>> Alcohol is a drug and alcoholism is addiction
>> to it. Again NA is about drugs.
>> Addiction is about drugs. (In NA)
>
>So... does this include caffeine? Nicotine? Sugar?
>Funny... I see nothing about "drugs" in Steps.....
>I work the Steps of NA to recover from the disease of addiction- not from
>the abuse of drugs.
Jimmy took alcohol out of the steps so they could refer to more than
one drug. This is a matter of record. He wasn't referring to sex or
gambling or Hostess snack foods, fatass.
Dude, you don't have a drug problem, yet you hang out with drug
addicts?
What a fucking loser.
damian
harley) wrote:
You're such a fucking idiot that a webtv'er is slamming your fat ass.
That's shameful.
It must suck to be you.
> From (jazzzman)
>.
>damian wrote:
>.
>Obsession with what? Compulsion to do what? NA is very much about drugs.
>Addiction is about drugs. That's a no-brainer dude.
>
>
>.
>So what about gambling addicts? Sex addicts? NA may be about drugs
>(though I would argue that, pointing to the 1st Step) but addiction is
>not.
>So much for your no-brainer...
>--
>jazzzman
>
>
>.
>\
>Your obsession to pull you dick and throw you money away still has
>nothing to do w/NA.......Alcohol is a drug and alcoholism is addiction
>to it. Again NA is about drugs.
> Addiction is about drugs. (In NA)
>
>Jon B.
>Work like you don't need money, Love like you've never been hurt,and
>Dance like no one's watching
-
mungbean
so paranoid Tom that I just cant stop laughing - your emails sure make
me laugh. But you are quite correct - you were not giving advice - you
were simple stating your point of view. I mean the way you carry the
message, mmmhhh - Keep up the good work TOM No doubt you will keep on
growing - and who knows, you might grow so much that you can have the
occasional spot or hell you might get really well again and start
pinging.
Thanks for the finger - always enjoy to see someone with good recovery
up their sleeve.
Cheers
Your Fan
Piotr
Tom'sQ wrote:
>
> What advice? or are you one of the paranoid fucks that cant stand any
> discussion on the disease model?
>
> Anyhow, heres the woogie wave
>
> --
>
> /'_/)
> ,/_ /
> / /
> /'_'/' '/'__'7,
> /'/ / / /"
> ('( ' ' _~/
> \ '
> '\' \ _7
> \ (
> \ ©
>
> "mungbean" <mung...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:3886E555...@ihug.co.nz...
> > hahaha - your advice sure is an open back door huh - as long as there
> > is a back door there is always a way out. You keep referring to the
> > physical manifestations of the disease/s - how about the emotional -
> > hahaha - you would be a new comers dream come true ...hey don't worry -
> > don't drink, go to meetings and smoke pot ..get real.
> >
> > Shall i wait for your finger again.
> >
> > :)
> > Piotr
> >
> > Tom'sQ wrote:
> > >
> > > Chris, thats the point.
> > >
> > > First off, notice that this was crossposted to araa , and arna. I was
> just
> > > pointing out that there are differences between alcoholism, and
> addiction.
> > >
> > > For example, I know a couple alcoholics who accasionaly smoke a joint.
> It
> > > doesnt send them on a dender, it doesnt destroy theire lives, but I've
> yet
> > > to see the same expirement reproduces successfully by an addict
> > >
> > > "Chris" <fourni...@erols.com> wrote in message
> > > news:38869DE3...@erols.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are
> > > different
> > > > > diseases?
> > > > >
> > > > > Just curious.
> > > >
> > > > Our addiction comes from missing enzymes. The molecules in our bodies
> have
> > > to
> > > > modify their structure in order to deal with the onslaught of the
> alcohol
> > > for
> > > > which they have no protection. After this process has taken place,
> you
> > > are an
> > > > addict: you need the alcohol.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, you can be addicted to other things, but that's another story...
> > > >
> >
mungbean
are a winner. As for the purists - you can have them - I just enjoy
reading your wisdom. As for you balls - you had better keep them - as
for the spooting bullshit - Your emails sure keep me learning TOM -
Take care Winner
Piotr :)
Tom'sQ wrote:
>
> --
>
> /'_/)
> ,/_ /
> / /
> /'_'/' '/'__'7,
> /'/ / / /"
> ('( ' ' _~/
> \ '
> '\' \ _7
> \ (
> \ ©
>
> "mungbean" <mung...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:3886EEF1...@ihug.co.nz...
> > hahaha - What a winner TOM - as I said, I sure want what you have
>
> whats that? balls to discuss issues which purists have deemed controversial?
>
> >- Im
> > so paranoid Tom that I just cant stop laughing - your emails sure make
> > me laugh.
>
> For the record, I dont email people from NewZealand
>
> > But you are quite correct - you were not giving advice - you
> > were simple stating your point of view.
>
> But that wont stop you from spooting more bullshit will it?
>
> > I mean the way you carry the
> > message, mmmhhh
>
> Do you mean that you dont have to be a mindless fuck to stay clean.. Hell
> fuckin yeah
>
> > Thanks for the finger - always enjoy to see someone with good recovery
> > up their sleeve.
>
> No problem, I put it in twice this time, one for you to look @ and one for
> me to shove up your cornholing ass
> >
> > Cheers
> > Your Fan
> > Piotr
>
> You must be from auckland
> >
>
> /'_/)
> ,/_ /
> / /
> /'_'/' '/'__'7,
> /'/ / / /"
> ('( ' ' _~/
> \ '
> '\' \ _7
> \ (
> \ ©
--
mungbean
be so proud of you, to have a son so full of wisdom. They should have
your story in the big book. cant wait for your next email.
Tom'sQ wrote:
>
> > I just enjoy reading your wisdom. As for you balls - you had better keep
> them
> \
> Perhaps I can introduce you to doc muldoon, you seem to have a nutsack
> pressure problem
>
> > Your emails sure keep me learning TOM -
>
> Again. I've never emailed you in my life..
>
> > Such recovery - I am in awe.
>
> Like a soudblaster awe64 and shit..sorry I upgraded to liveware..but you
> wouldnt get that now would you
> >
> > Take care Winner
>
> Sure thing mungbutt
mungbean
Sober The TOM'sQ Way.
When they stop suing huh - I'd imagine there is few in line then.
Cheers
You nbr one Fan (mind if I call you the Oracle ?)
Tom'sQ wrote:
>
> :They should have
> : your story in the big book.
>
> They asked, I told them when they stop suing other alcoholics and selling
> there souls, I'd consider it
mungbean
menure) - wow just as well I didn't leave a message in the cross stitch
news group.
Tom'sQ wrote:
>
> "mungbean" <mung...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:3886F3B4...@ihug.co.nz...
>
> Btw, go back to Motutapu Island.. your sticking up the menure here
Alan S.
"Reese" wrote in message:
>"Alan S." wrote:
>
> >> Really, not just trite and mistaken, but incredibly sill as well.
> >> It's interesting that the pro-wso service types in NA have nothing to
> >> say about wso violating the Traditions even now by going around to law
> >> enforcement conventions and treatment conventions and "marketing" NA.
> >> "Marketing" is their word.
> >
> >You on one hand say the traditions are worthless and then on the other
> >accusse WSO for breaking them, Make up you mind are you for the
traditions
> >or against the traditions.
>
> And you're saying the Traditions are great and that they must not be
> broken.
>
> But when wso breaks them, it's just fine by you.
Where did I say WSO breaking the traditions is cool. Maybe you should study
english again, I said 'If the traditions weren't there NA might not be
around today'. Please explain, where I endorsed WSO. Why do you think
because I was pro-traditions that I would have any opinion about WSO.
>
> >They made us buy a AA BB when I was in rehab.
> >Do know what I did with that BB when I got out of rehab.
> >Straight in the recycling bin.
>
> I give the AA Big Book to newcomers in NA. It's half the price of the
> Basic Text and twice as good.
>
> >My drinking never brought me to my knees like heroin did and as such I
don't
> >relate to the AA's
>
> That's because you're focusing on the drug.
That makes a shit load of sense. Because my drinking never brought me to my
knees I am therefor focusing on the drug. Your logic is floorless. Maybe I
just never drank as regularly as I took drugs, did you consider that.
>
> >I find The AA BB to be one of the most boring books I have had the
> >displeasure to read in my life.
> >Personly, I find working the steps with the help of a sponsor and NA
> >literature to be supperior.
> >I did recovery the AA way in rehab. and it didn't cut it.
>
> Excuse me, but the 12 Steps are the AA way. NA uses those Steps only
> with AA's permission.
Alan S.
"Reese" <x...@briefcase.com> wrote in message:
> "Alan S." <sand...@one.net.au> wrote:
> >"Ian" <ian...@home.com> wrote in message
> >
> >> The point you make about AA recovery not bieng good enough for an
addict
> >is
> >> one that i agree with you on. I've had similar experiances..AA is good
> >> background material...but to truly put the "disease" under the light
takes
> >a
> >> another addict AND the steps the NA way
> >
> >Exactamondo!!!
> >Addicts know where addicts are commin from.
>
> Oh, alcohol ain't a drug?
Where did I say 'alcohol ain't a drug?'
AA is drug specific i.e 'We admitted that we were powerless over Alcohol -
That our lives had become unmanageable'. I seek recovery from Addiction, mpt
just a single substance. I learn how to recover from addiction from other
recovering addicts.
Alan S.
"jazzzman" wrote in message:
> Chris wrote:
> > Our addiction comes from missing enzymes. The molecules in our bodies
have to
> > modify their structure in order to deal with the onslaught of the
alcohol for
> > which they have no protection. After this process has taken place, you
are an
> > addict: you need the alcohol.
> >
> > Sure, you can be addicted to other things, but that's another story...
>
> Close, but no cigar-
> You're correct in saying that an alcoholic does not process alcohol in the
same
> way. The liver turns alcohol into acetaldehyde; for alcoholics, this
combines
> with dopamine in the brain to become tetrahydroisoquineline. In the
brain, this
> acts like the natural endorphins, and is probably the substance to which
one
> actually becomes addicted. It was experimented with as a pain killer, but
is
> highly addictive. It is also found in the brains of heroin addicts. With
> stimulant addicts, the stimulants themselves act like dopamine and other
> neurochemicals, and also stimulate the release of natural chemicals,
depleting the
> brain of its own supply. Behavioral addictions also create changes in
brain
> chemistry. Belonging to a group, or feeling that one belongs, creates
positive
> neurochemical changes.
>
> In all cases, it appears to be the Dopamine Cascade Reward System that is
> effected.
>
> So there really is no difference between "addicts" and "alcoholics".
Except that the alcoholics in AA choose to focus on a substance and not the
disease i.e 'We admitted that we were powerless over Alcohol - That our
lives had become unmanageable.'
Alan S.
"Reese" wrote in message
> "Tom'sQ" wrote:
>
> >Reese, have you ever considered that addiction and alcoholism are
different
> >diseases?
> >
> >Just curious..
>
> No. Unlike your buddy Alan, I believe what the Basic Text says about
that.
I didn't say they were seperate diseases, I believe Alcoholism and Addiction
to be one and the same.
I said that I didn't relate to AA's. Learn to read.
Alan S.
"Tom'sQ" wrote in message:
> "Chris" wrote in message:
> Alan, your wishing fellow addicts dead seem to be catching on, Aparently
Chris here as well does it..
>
> Must be all that spirituality
>
> > I see! If I was you, I'd definitly be drinking a lot, and smoking, and
> shooting
> > myself...
Tom still looks like you need to learn English.
The man said if he were you he would kill himself. He nowhere wished you
dead.
David Kay
> Stop posting to this newsgroup (alt.recovery.aa); it has nothing
whatsoever to
> do with your subject matter.
Hey look! JC II has appointed himself police chief of araa!
David Kay
> fke, stop posting to alt.recover.aa; it has nothing to do with your
sexual
> fantasies and severe personality disorder.
And head psychiatrist?
God works in mysterious ways.
fke
does-not-share-...@usenetpost.com wrote:
>Stop posting to this newsgroup (alt.recovery.aa); it has nothing whatsoever to
>do with your subject matter.
>
>You are also a stupid asshole.
i'll have you know
that i'm a world level trusted servant in na
that's right
jazzzman is too
jazzzman and i hold seats on the wsc board
we are world level trusted servants
show some respect dipshit
fke
fke
wrote:
>hahaha - your advice sure is an open back door huh - as long as there
>is a back door there is always a way out. You keep referring to the
>physical manifestations of the disease/s - how about the emotional -
>hahaha - you would be a new comers dream come true ...hey don't worry -
>don't drink, go to meetings and smoke pot ..get real.
>
>Shall i wait for your finger again.
bend over
i'm gonna put my pecker up your butt
and pleasure myself
when i can't find good pussy
i'll settle for a little browneye
fke