Some sense of time
default
You would think evolution took place in the blink of an eye the way
they talk about the "miracle" of animal life (although they seem to
think that only human animals are miraculous in their complexity).
The system of reproduction and the changes (damage) to chromosomes
makes passing on individual traits something of a crap game.
Its a great system, and easily explains the complexity of plant and
animal life. Take a system that allows and encourages diversity and
chance, give it hundreds of millions of years to work things out, you
get humans and perhaps higher forms of animal life.
Another time compression goes on with our religious myths. You might
think that all civilization started around 4000 BC the way Christian
religionists talk - yet there's ample evidence that the Mayans (a
later civilization?) started 6,000 BC and had their migration learning
and cooperation beginning around 11,000 BC.
Civilizations didn't suddenly pop on the biblical scene - that took
man some 60,000 years to work out. During that time, he invented
religion and refined it to meet his needs (or the needs of his
leaders).
Christians seem to think that no time whatever passed between the OT
bible and the NT bible, yet that was another ~1500 years between the
written bible and Christ. Think how much our own civilization and
technological achievements have changed us in the last hundred years,
then try to apply that to the time spans involved when it comes to
civilization and religion.
--
Patrick
> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
Take your amazement to fundies.
Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God. It doesn't
make much difference if Noah lived 900 years or how long
the "first day" of creation took......
duke
>I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>You would think evolution took place in the blink of an eye the way
>they talk about the "miracle" of animal life (although they seem to
>think that only human animals are miraculous in their complexity).
>
>The system of reproduction and the changes (damage) to chromosomes
>makes passing on individual traits something of a crap game.
>
>Its a great system, and easily explains the complexity of plant and
>animal life. Take a system that allows and encourages diversity and
>chance, give it hundreds of millions of years to work things out, you
>get humans and perhaps higher forms of animal life.
>Another time compression goes on with our religious myths. You might
>think that all civilization started around 4000 BC the way Christian
>religionists talk
Oh, a very small group of Christians believe that because they profess the
literal truth of every word in the bible.
The huge majority of Christians know the earth is 4.5 billion years old.
>Christians seem to think that no time whatever passed between the OT
>bible and the NT bible,
What?????????????
> yet that was another ~1500 years between the
>written bible and Christ. Think how much our own civilization and
>technological achievements have changed us in the last hundred years,
>then try to apply that to the time spans involved when it comes to
>civilization and religion.
The only one that's confused is you and a very small group of literalists.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
default
wrote:
So you say
I think what Catholics SAY and what they actually understand or
believe are never the same.
A sense of time is lacking in most people except historians,
palaeontologists, etc.. Religion looks a lot different when you start
understanding how, who, why, and when and keep it all in perspective.
The common religionists is a very superficial creature - its all
reduced to a formula for his easy ingestion, he's not supposed to
think, just believe what he's told. AND you do.
--
Dan Listermann
"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in message
news:MtadnV6KH5soWC_X...@posted.localnet...
> "default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>
> Take your amazement to fundies.
> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception that
are your deities!
duke
>On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:26:37 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>
>>Take your amazement to fundies.
>>Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God. It doesn't
>>make much difference if Noah lived 900 years or how long
>>the "first day" of creation took......
>>
>So you say
>
>I think what Catholics SAY and what they actually understand or
>believe are never the same.
I've seen what you think we say. I've seen no comprehension on your part.
duke
Where is the exception?
Dan Listermann
"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4jb7b5d8glvovhgo4...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:00:35 -0400, "Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in message
>>news:MtadnV6KH5soWC_X...@posted.localnet...
>>> "default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>>
>>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>>
>>If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception that
>>are your deities!
>
> Where is the exception?
>
Patrick
> "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>
>>Take your amazement to fundies.
>>Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God. It doesn't
>>make much difference if Noah lived 900 years or how long
>>the "first day" of creation took......
>>
> So you say
Yup, I say.
>
> I think what Catholics SAY and what they actually understand or
> believe are never the same.
I agree.
> A sense of time is lacking in most people except historians,
> palaeontologists, etc.. Religion looks a lot different when you start
> understanding how, who, why, and when and keep it all in perspective.
> The common religionists is a very superficial creature - its all
> reduced to a formula for his easy ingestion, he's not supposed to
> think, just believe what he's told. AND you do.
Ahhh, I do believe, and I have thought long and hard about
what I believe and why I believe. It is MY choice to believe.
Patrick
>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>
>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>
> If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception that
> are your deities!
God is, was, and always will be.
It is a mystery we believe, and this is called: "FAITH."
Dan Listermann
Easy to say, harder to rationalize.
Gullibility is the source of religious faith. Enjoy your gullibility!
mani deli
wrote:
>God is, was, and always will be.
According to the Greatest Bullshit Story Ever Told.
>It is a mystery we believe, and this is called: "FAITH."
>
Never underestimate the gullibility of the faithful.
What is it the New Testament teaches us? - to believe that the
Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married,
and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."
[Thomas Paine]
Alan Ferris
<d...@listermann.com> wrote:
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:4jb7b5d8glvovhgo4...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:00:35 -0400, "Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in message
>>>news:MtadnV6KH5soWC_X...@posted.localnet...
>>>> "default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>>>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>>>
>>>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>>>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>>>
>>>If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception that
>>>are your deities!
>>
>> Where is the exception?
>>
>OK, who made your deities?
>
Man
--
Ferrit
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
"I always babble nonsense to people"
Patrick Barker
Patrick
>>> "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in message
>>>> "default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>>>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>>>
>>>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>>>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>>>
>>> If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception
>>> that are your deities!
>>
>> God is, was, and always will be.
>> It is a mystery we believe, and this is called: "FAITH."
>
> Easy to say, harder to rationalize.
Of course it is. That is why it is called a "MYSTERY."
> Gullibility is the source of religious faith. Enjoy your gullibility!
So says the catholic basher who was terminated from the church.
duke
There's only one, and we have no idea how almighty God came about.
Patrick
> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>
>>God is, was, and always will be.
>
> According to the Greatest Bullshit Story Ever Told.
>
>>It is a mystery we believe, and this is called: "FAITH."
>>
> Never underestimate the gullibility of the faithful.
Too bad that you are clueless.
What is worse, you don't have a clue bag to collect clues if you
did get a clue.....
> What is it the New Testament teaches us? - to believe that the
> Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married,
> and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."
[Thomas Paine]
Nope.
Doesn't teach that at all.
Please provide a reference for this New Testament teaching.....
Or shaddiup, you liar.
duke
duke
Man is not capable of that.
>
>Gullibility is the source of religious faith. Enjoy your gullibility!
>
The Dukester, American-American
duke
>On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:08:28 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>God is, was, and always will be.
>
>According to the Greatest Bullshit Story Ever Told.
And true to boot.
default
wrote:
>"Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com> wrote ...
>> "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in message
>>> "Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com> wrote...
>>>> "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in message
>>>>> "default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>>>>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>>>>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>>>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>>>>
>>>> If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception
>>>> that are your deities!
>>>
>>> God is, was, and always will be.
>>> It is a mystery we believe, and this is called: "FAITH."
>>
>> Easy to say, harder to rationalize.
>
>Of course it is. That is why it is called a "MYSTERY."
>
While raising gullibility to the position of a virtue . . .
>
>> Gullibility is the source of religious faith. Enjoy your gullibility!
>
>So says the catholic basher who was terminated from the church.
>
That's a great idea - I imagine there's lots of "Catholic Bashers" who
would gladly seek an official termination from the church. I for one,
don't like the idea that my old parish lists me as one of their
mindless obsequious followers. It is insulting to me!
--
default
wrote:
Find it galling that one the Founding Fathers figured out the "fraud"
you prefer to call "faith?"
"the three frauds: mystery, miracle, and prophecy"
--
Abe Froman
Amazing. Did it ever occur to you to notify the parish that you are
no longer a member?
Patrick
>>So says the catholic basher who was terminated from the church.
>>
> That's a great idea - I imagine there's lots of "Catholic Bashers" who
> would gladly seek an official termination from the church. I for one,
> don't like the idea that my old parish lists me as one of their
> mindless obsequious followers. It is insulting to me!
Just as you cannot unring a bell, you cannot de-baptise yourself.
Your name is kept because you were given the way, the truth and
the light. You - OTOH- elected - chose - to snub God and His
simple commanments. This was your choice. Since we know
who you are, and your obvious contempt for the RCC, we know
who you are and where you reside. We will continue to give you
an opportunity to come home, but ultimately you are gambling
with your own eternity.
Don't whine to me in 1000 years that the heat is uncomfortable.
You made your choice.
Patrick
>>That's a great idea - I imagine there's lots of "Catholic Bashers" who
>>would gladly seek an official termination from the church. I for one,
>>don't like the idea that my old parish lists me as one of their
>>mindless obsequious followers. It is insulting to me!
>
> Amazing. Did it ever occur to you to notify the parish that you are
> no longer a member?
I personally have done this a dozen times. Most recently 2 years ago.
I have changed parishes many times throughout my career.
Patrick
>>
>>> What is it the New Testament teaches us? - to believe that the
>>> Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married,
>>> and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."
>> [Thomas Paine]
>>
>>Nope.
>>Doesn't teach that at all.
>>Please provide a reference for this New Testament teaching.....
>>Or shaddiup, you liar.
>>
> Find it galling that one the Founding Fathers figured out the "fraud"
> you prefer to call "faith?"
Paine - a founding father? More like a jerk off.
Even some American revolutionaries objected to Common Sense; late in life
John Adams called it a "crapulous mass." Adams disagreed with the type of
radical democracy promoted by Paine, and published Thoughts on Government in
1776 to advocate a more conservative approach to republicanism.
In 1777, Paine became secretary of the Congressional Committee on Foreign
Affairs. The following year, he alluded to continuing secret negotiation
with France in his pamphlets; the resultant scandal and Paine's conflict
with Robert Morris eventually led to Paine's expulsion from the Committee in
1779.
Before his arrest and imprisonment in France, knowing that he would probably
be arrested and executed, Paine, following in the tradition of early
eighteenth-century British deism, wrote the first part of The Age of Reason,
an assault on organized "revealed" religion combining a compilation of
inconsistencies he found in the Bible with his own advocacy of deism,
calling for "free rational inquiry" into all subjects, especially religion.
The Age of Reason critique on institutionalized religion resulted in only a
brief upsurge in deistic thought in America, but would later result in Paine
being derided by the public and abandoned by his friends.
Being held in France, Paine protested and claimed that he was a citizen of
America, which was an ally of Revolutionary France, rather than of Great
Britain, which was by that time at war with France. However, Gouverneur
Morris, the American ambassador to France, did not press his claim, and
Paine later wrote that Morris had connived at his imprisonment. Paine
thought that George Washington had abandoned him, and he was to quarrel with
Washington for the rest of his life. Years later he wrote a scathing open
letter to Washington, accusing him of private betrayal of their friendship
and public hypocrisy as general and president, and concluding the letter by
saying "the world will be puzzled to decide whether you are an apostate or
an impostor; whether you have abandoned good principles or whether you ever
had any
At the time of his death, most American newspapers reprinted the obituary
notice from the New York Citizen, which read in part: "He had lived long,
did some good and much harm." Only six mourners came to his funeral, two of
whom were black, most likely freedmen.
He described himself as deist, saying: How different is [Christianity] to
the pure and simple profession of Deism! The true Deist has but one Deity,
and his religion consists in contemplating the power, wisdom, and benignity
of the Deity in his works, and in endeavoring to imitate him in everything
moral, scientifical, and mechanical.
Abe Froman
It's quite simple to do. I recently change parishes and only had to
send the former one an email. I once worked as a volunteer in the
rectory, and the number of packages of envelopes that were returned
every month was upsetting... mainly because of the extra postage that
was required to have them returned. It was a small, poor parish and
we needed every penny.
default
A long time ago. My sister and I did go down to the school/parish but
they said that they couldn't see us and we should make an appointment
(after we stated our desire). They did give us some crap about not
having any formal procedure and we might reconcile "our faith"
eventually.
Now I live 600 miles away.
The last time they solicited money, via the mail . . . I sent them a
letter saying that I would not contribute to the indoctrination of
innocent children into Catholic slavery, and if they didn't stop
sending their offensive literature, I would write the Vatican, tell
them of my own altar boy experience, and wouldn't be half so polite
about it. Alter Boy would be more like it.
That last letter seems to have worked.
The Catholic High School was much easier. I just sent the letter back
to them with "go to hell" across with a marker pen. Not a peep in 4
years now.
But there ought to be a simple easy way to get "excommunicated" from
those idiots, in writing.
--
default
wrote:
Thanks Paddy - my new goal in life is to get a formal excommunication
from the Vatican in writing.
--
default
wrote:
>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>>>
>>>> What is it the New Testament teaches us? - to believe that the
>>>> Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married,
>>>> and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."
>>> [Thomas Paine]
>>>
>>>Nope.
>>>Doesn't teach that at all.
>>>Please provide a reference for this New Testament teaching.....
>>>Or shaddiup, you liar.
>>>
>> Find it galling that one the Founding Fathers figured out the "fraud"
>> you prefer to call "faith?"
>
>Paine - a founding father? More like a jerk off.
>Even some American revolutionaries objected to Common Sense; late in life
>John Adams called it a "crapulous mass." Adams disagreed with the type of
>radical democracy promoted by Paine, and published Thoughts on Government in
>1776 to advocate a more conservative approach to republicanism.
You're going to have to do better than John Adams, or Thomas
Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and the list goes on.
I guess they were all "jerk offs" to your sucky Catholic patriotic
delusion?
Sorry Chico, people with actual brains, use them.
These were some smart cookies that understood human nature and
weaknesses.
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation.
But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have
been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made
them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
-- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816
Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient
Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions,
above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the
public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents.
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, December 3, 1813
God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy
is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.
-- John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the myth of
the Incarnation of Christ, from Ira D Cardiff, What Great Men Think of
Religion, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall
govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall
rule it by fictitious miracles?
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815
--
Patrick
> But there ought to be a simple easy way to get "excommunicated" from
> those idiots, in writing.
It is easy to do.
I'm done it many times when I moved.
Patrick
> Thanks Paddy - my new goal in life is to get a formal excommunication
> from the Vatican in writing.
The Vatican doesn't waste time listening to whiners.
You can whine some more to me if you think it'll do any good.
Patrick
> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> What is it the New Testament teaches us? - to believe that the
>>>>> Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married,
>>>>> and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."
>>>> [Thomas Paine]
>>>>
>>>>Nope.
>>>>Doesn't teach that at all.
>>>>Please provide a reference for this New Testament teaching.....
>>>>Or shaddiup, you liar.
>>>>
>>> Find it galling that one the Founding Fathers figured out the "fraud"
>>> you prefer to call "faith?"
>>
>>Paine - a founding father? More like a jerk off.
>>Even some American revolutionaries objected to Common Sense; late in life
>>John Adams called it a "crapulous mass." Adams disagreed with the type of
>>radical democracy promoted by Paine, and published Thoughts on Government
>>in
>>1776 to advocate a more conservative approach to republicanism.
>
> You're going to have to do better than John Adams, or Thomas
> Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and the list goes on.
Huh?
Adams didn't think much of Paine.
I don't know what Jefferson thought of him.
I am merely telling you I don't particularly value Paine as a "founding
father."
> I guess they were all "jerk offs" to your sucky Catholic patriotic
> delusion?
Nope. Why do you think this?
Paine was a jerk-off. Jefferson and Washington were slave owners.
Ben Franklin was a womanizer.
No one is perfect.
Except for your expectations of "priests" within the RCC.
> Sorry Chico, people with actual brains, use them.
I do.
And you must not have any then.
> These were some smart cookies that understood human nature and
> weaknesses.
Kinda like priests of today?
> As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation.
> But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have
> been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made
> them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
> -- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816
Gee..... Because the same shit happens, different day?
<snip whiney crap>
Do you wish to read quotes from the same people who claim
the government is based on a Christian society?
duke
Maybe you should look into being de baptized. I understand there are some
people in England trying to do just that. Heeheeheeheehee.
duke
Not to worry. I suspect you've already accomplished that. God knows.
default
wrote:
I have to figure that anything that calls attention to their stupidity
does affect how they perceive themselves and their treatment of their
"sheep."
--
default
wrote:
>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
That's just a change of venue. I want a formal letter baring me from
the church forever.
--
default
wrote:
><snip whiney crap>
>Do you wish to read quotes from the same people who claim
>the government is based on a Christian society?
>
Only ones from John Adams supporting Catholicism, if you find any.
--
Patrick
news:bj7cb5hvtnnrjsneo...@4ax.com...
John Adams (1735-1826)
The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of
governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now
sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture,
hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in
their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American
governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in
America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be
pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the
gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those
at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it
will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by
the use of reason and the senses.
-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United
States of America" (1787-88), from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American
Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society
(1965) p. 258, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support
the Separation of State and Church"
We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions
... shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and
power ... we may expect that improvements will be made in the human
character and the state of society.
-- John Adams, letter to Dr. Price, April 8, 1785, quoted from Albert
Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom (1991)
I do not like the reappearance of the Jesuits.... Shall we not have regular
swarms of them here, in as many disguises as only a king of the gipsies can
assume, dressed as printers, publishers, writers and schoolmasters? If ever
there was a body of men who merited damnation on earth and in Hell, it is
this society of Loyola's. Nevertheless, we are compelled by our system of
religious toleration to offer them an asylum.
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, May 5, 1816
Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, May 19, 1821, from James A
Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got
rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.
-- John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the myth of the
Incarnation of Christ, from Ira D Cardiff, What Great Men Think of Religion,
quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
Although John Adams often felt an urge to advocate atheism as a popular
world view (because of the sheer abuses perpetrated by religious
charlatans), he was of the firm and reasoned opinion (basically undisputed
in his day) that religion is essential to the goal of keeping the masses in
line.
Patrick
Let me know when you start finding and calling attention to the stupidity.
Patrick
> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>>> But there ought to be a simple easy way to get "excommunicated" from
>>> those idiots, in writing.
>>
>>It is easy to do.
>>I'm done it many times when I moved.
>>
> That's just a change of venue. I want a formal letter baring me from
> the church forever.
This will never happen.
The Church is in the forgiveness business.
It is your choice to bit off your nose to spite your face.
duke
They can't do that.
duke
Uh, no, but it does call attention to your stupidity. Satan already received
his CC on your case.
Dan Listermann
"Alan Ferris" <hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l409b5hdkks0upl56...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:22:29 -0400, "Dan Listermann"
> <d...@listermann.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:4jb7b5d8glvovhgo4...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:00:35 -0400, "Dan Listermann"
>>> <d...@listermann.com>>>>>news:MtadnV6KH5soWC_X...@posted.localnet...
>>>>> "default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>>>>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>>>>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>>>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>>>>
>>>>If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception
>>>>that
>>>>are your deities!
>>>
>>>
>>OK, who made your deities?
>>
> Man
>
Give that man a cigar!
Dan Listermann
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:22:29 -0400, "Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:4jb7b5d8glvovhgo4...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:00:35 -0400, "Dan Listermann"
>>> <d...@listermann.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:MtadnV6KH5soWC_X...@posted.localnet...
>>>>> "default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>>>>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>>>>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>>>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>>>>
>>>>If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception
>>>>that
>>>>are your deities!
>>>
>>> Where is the exception?
>>>
>>OK, who made your deities?
>
>
And I have no idea how the Universe came about, but I don't need to buy a
myth to try to explain it like you do.
Dan Listermann
>>>>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>>>>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>>>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>>>>
>>>> If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception
>>>> that are your deities!
>>>
>>> It is a mystery we believe, and this is called: "FAITH."
>>
>> Easy to say, harder to rationalize.
>
> Of course it is. That is why it is called a "MYSTERY."
And it takes a level of gillibility to buy it.
>
>
>> Gullibility is the source of religious faith. Enjoy your gullibility!
>
> So says the catholic basher who was terminated from the church.
>
I terminated my relationship to the superstition. Their opinion of me is of
little consequence to me beyond my meager interest in a certificate stating
so, suitable for framing.
Dan Listermann
Sealed with the "Fisherman's Ring" would be really cool!
Dan Listermann
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:19:34 -0400, default <def...@defaulter.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:46:09 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>>>> But there ought to be a simple easy way to get "excommunicated" from
>>>> those idiots, in writing.
>>>
>>>It is easy to do.
>>>I'm done it many times when I moved.
>
>>That's just a change of venue. I want a formal letter baring me from
>>the church forever.
>
> They can't do that.
>
Dan Listermann
Beware the Great White Hankerchief!
Dan Listermann
Kind of like "Hell's Angles," right?
Dan Listermann
Please keep us informed of your progress!
Dan Listermann
That sounds just as superstitious as the silly baptism crap. No thanks, I
will just ignore them - unless it humors me.
Dan Listermann
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:49:02 -0400, "Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in message
>>> "Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com> wrote...
>>>> "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in message
>>>>> "default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>>>>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>>>>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>>>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>>>>
>>>> If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception
>>>> that
>>>> are your deities!
>>>
>>> God is, was, and always will be.
>>> It is a mystery we believe, and this is called: "FAITH."
>>
>>Easy to say, harder to rationalize.
>
Only by fiat, nothing to do with reality.
Dan Listermann
> "mani deli" <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote ...>> According to the Greatest Bullshit Story Ever Told.
>>
>>>It is a mystery we believe, and this is called: "FAITH."
>>>
>
> Too bad that you are clueless.
> What is worse, you don't have a clue bag to collect clues if you
> did get a clue.....
>
monkfish?
Dan Listermann
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:34:41 -0400, mani deli <nob...@rinterlog.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:08:28 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>God is, was, and always will be.
>>
>>According to the Greatest Bullshit Story Ever Told.
>
It is truly male bovine excrement, yes.
Dan Listermann
>>>>> I'm continually amazed at how religionists compress time.
>>>>
>>>> Take your amazement to fundies.
>>>> Catholics know that evolution, big bang, expanding universes....
>>>> all still have a beginning.... and it all started with God.
>>>
>>> If everything needs a beginning, tell us about the honking exception
>>> that
>>> are your deities!
>>
>>
>
Faith / Gullibility, discuss.
Kenny McCormack
Translation: Now that there's no shame (or almost certain death at the
hands of the authorities - either civil or clerical)) in being
excommunicated, the Church doesn't bother with it anymore.
Check out this URL - and others on the net about how hard it is to get
excom'd these days.
Kenny McCormack
Kenny McCormack
mani deli
wrote:
>Although John Adams often felt an urge to advocate atheism as a popular
>world view (because of the sheer abuses perpetrated by religious
>charlatans), he was of the firm and reasoned opinion (basically undisputed
>in his day) that religion is essential to the goal of keeping the masses in
>line.
Like where?
duke
And your list includes the physicists of the world.
duke
It's automatic basis your actions. You don't need a letter.
duke
Satan is excited about your decision.
duke
The reality of the big bang says you're wrong.
default
They are being pragmatic too. Their political power is proportional
to the size of their gang - so anything they can do (they will do) to
bolster the numbers. They aren't above ego either - they want to
believe they control large numbers of the "faithful."
If they did make it easy there would be a stampede - they are an
organization of pre selected follower-types; any bandwagon is good
enough for many of them.
The papal seal would be a nice touch too, maybe an embossed gold foil
sticker, black ribbon, and bit of sealing wax just to dress it up a
little, and they could use some engraver to produce stock certificate
quality, faux parchment documents. They could work the fear angle too
- engraved devils with pitchforks roasting the souls that the church
discarded. I might even pay for that.
--
default
wrote:
>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>>>
>>>> Thanks Paddy - my new goal in life is to get a formal excommunication
>>>> from the Vatican in writing.
>>>
>>>The Vatican doesn't waste time listening to whiners.
>>>You can whine some more to me if you think it'll do any good.
>>>
>> I have to figure that anything that calls attention to their stupidity
>> does affect how they perceive themselves and their treatment of their
>> "sheep."
>
>Let me know when you start finding and calling attention to the stupidity.
>
I'm not expecting too much - they have a long track record of
over-selling themselves and their ability.
--
Dan Listermann
Dan Listermann
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:49:50 -0400, "Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:0cpcb5l6oh7vptm32...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:19:34 -0400, default <def...@defaulter.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:46:09 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>>>>>> But there ought to be a simple easy way to get "excommunicated" from
>>>>>> those idiots, in writing.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is easy to do.
>>>>>I'm done it many times when I moved.
>>>
>>>>That's just a change of venue. I want a formal letter baring me from
>>>>the church forever.
>>>
>>> They can't do that.
>>>
>>The are afraid to start that sort of thing for fear of a stampede.
>
> It's automatic basis your actions. You don't need a letter.
>
"It's automatic basis your actions. "
Can you rewrite that more clearly.
Dan Listermann
Kenny McCormack
>>
>I am not sure what you are trying to say here.
Welcome to the insane world of duke.
Dan Listermann
Patrick
Well for one thing, you are in line to talk with me.
You will have to wait your turn, manny.
Patrick
Tell me who does not?
besides you and me, that is.....
Patrick
default
wrote:
>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote ...
>> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>>>> But there ought to be a simple easy way to get "excommunicated" from
>>>> those idiots, in writing.
>>>
>>>It is easy to do.
>>>I'm done it many times when I moved.
>>>
>> That's just a change of venue. I want a formal letter baring me from
>> the church forever.
>
>This will never happen.
>The Church is in the forgiveness business.
My gripe is with the church, and I'm not in the forgiveness business.
I don't give a shit about their whole fear mongering scam.
>It is your choice to bit off your nose to spite your face.
That's the picture that comes to mind when the nuns talked about how
noble it was to retain your faith and go to heaven after being mauled
by lions in the arena. I guess today's sniveling Catholics have a
better use for their noses.
--
default
wrote:
>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote in message
>news:bj7cb5hvtnnrjsneo...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:54:29 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>><snip whiney crap>
>>>Do you wish to read quotes from the same people who claim
>>>the government is based on a Christian society?
>>>
>> Only ones from John Adams supporting Catholicism, if you find any.
>
>John Adams (1735-1826)
>
>The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of
>governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now
>sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture,
>hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in
>their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American
>governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in
>America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be
>pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the
>gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those
>at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it
>will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by
>the use of reason and the senses.
>-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United
>States of America" (1787-88), from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American
>Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society
>(1965) p. 258, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support
>the Separation of State and Church"
>
>
>
>We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions
>... shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and
>power ... we may expect that improvements will be made in the human
>character and the state of society.
>-- John Adams, letter to Dr. Price, April 8, 1785, quoted from Albert
>Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom (1991)
>
>
>
>I do not like the reappearance of the Jesuits.... Shall we not have regular
>swarms of them here, in as many disguises as only a king of the gipsies can
>assume, dressed as printers, publishers, writers and schoolmasters? If ever
>there was a body of men who merited damnation on earth and in Hell, it is
>this society of Loyola's. Nevertheless, we are compelled by our system of
>religious toleration to offer them an asylum.
>-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, May 5, 1816
>
>
>
>Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?
>-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, May 19, 1821, from James A
>Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
>
>
>
>God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got
>rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.
>-- John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the myth of the
>Incarnation of Christ, from Ira D Cardiff, What Great Men Think of Religion,
>quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
>
>
>
>Although John Adams often felt an urge to advocate atheism as a popular
>world view (because of the sheer abuses perpetrated by religious
>charlatans), he was of the firm and reasoned opinion (basically undisputed
>in his day) that religion is essential to the goal of keeping the masses in
>line.
You rest my case.
--
mani deli
wrote:
>>The Church is in the forgiveness business.
The church is in the after death insurance business.
duke
Living in the spirit is the premium.
Patrick
>
>>>The Church is in the forgiveness business.
>
> The church is in the after death insurance business.
Just because your mom wants to will her belongings to the church
rather than waste it on the likes of you, doesn't mean that the church
wants her to die quickly.... as you would have wished.....
Dan Listermann
mani deli
wrote:
>"mani deli" <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote ...
>> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>>The Church is in the forgiveness business.
>>
>> The church is in the after death insurance business.
>
>Just because your mom wants to will her belongings to the church
>rather than waste it on the likes of you,
More likely you!
>doesn't mean that the church
>wants her to die quickly.... as you would have wished.....
The church isn't interested in anyone's mom including yours. The
church is a business in for profit from suckers like you.
Patrick
> The church isn't interested in anyone's mom including yours. The
> church is a business in for profit from suckers like you.
Is that the best you can do?
What good do you do for the world?
Or... are you just a whiner, bitching about you not getting your
piece of the pie? Others get their 30 pieces of silver and you
didn't get your fair share?
mani deli
and tells innocent young children that they are born sinners because
someone ate the wrong apple. Kids are then sternly warned that they
could fry in the eternal ovens for ever if they commit any of a long
list of sins that the business provides. It often scares them for
life. They also infer that questioning what their manual tells is
dangerous to your future life.
Each branch of the superstition business assures all its loyal
customers that it alone possess the magic power to absolve you of
those sins and only their brand of after-death life insurance is bone
fide. No written policy of course but you can read the details in
their manual.
Suggestion; if you are offered a Life After Death Insurance Policy
make sure you understand all the implications of the fine print.
Patrick
And all non-profit organizatiopns thank you for this benefit.
> and tells innocent young children that they are born sinners because
> someone ate the wrong apple. Kids are then sternly warned that they
> could fry in the eternal ovens for ever if they commit any of a long
> list of sins that the business provides. It often scares them for
> life. They also infer that questioning what their manual tells is
> dangerous to your future life.
This - of course - is how poor manny was taught by his parents.
Instead of growing up in a nurturing, loving environment with
parents who tried to teach him right from wrong, poor manny
was skeered by those big people living in his house.
> Each branch of the superstition business assures all its loyal
> customers that it alone possess the magic power to absolve you of
> those sins and only their brand of after-death life insurance is bone
> fide. No written policy of course but you can read the details in
> their manual.
> Suggestion; if you are offered a Life After Death Insurance Policy
> make sure you understand all the implications of the fine print.
This - of course - is how poor manny was taught by his parents.
Instead of growing up in a nurturing, loving environment with
parents who tried to teach him right from wrong, poor manny
was skeered by those big people living in his house.
mani deli
wrote:
The above convoluted drivel is the best a paying sucker like you can
say. The church is a crooked business and you are a victim. You aren't
doing any good at all attempting to spread their antiquated idiotic
superstition in the present world.
mani deli
wrote:
>"mani deli" <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote ...
>> There's a business, the superstition business, that never pays taxes
>
>And all non-profit organizatiopns thank you for this benefit.
The Catholic Church isn't a non-profit organization. Like most all
other religions which you don't happen to believe in, its a money
grubbing racket.
>
>> and tells innocent young children that they are born sinners because
>> someone ate the wrong apple. Kids are then sternly warned that they
>> could fry in the eternal ovens for ever if they commit any of a long
>> list of sins that the business provides. It often scares them for
>> life. They also infer that questioning what their manual tells is
>> dangerous to your future life.
>
>This - of course - is how poor manny was taught by his parents.
>Instead of growing up in a nurturing, loving environment with
>parents who tried to teach him right from wrong, poor manny
>was skeered by those big people living in his house.
>
I know right from wrong better than a babbling superstitious sucker
like you. I'm capable of critical thinking so unlike you I can detect
a racket when I see one.
>
>> Each branch of the superstition business assures all its loyal
>> customers that it alone possess the magic power to absolve you of
>> those sins and only their brand of after-death life insurance is bone
>> fide. No written policy of course but you can read the details in
>> their manual.
>> Suggestion; if you are offered a Life After Death Insurance Policy
>> make sure you understand all the implications of the fine print.
>
>This - of course - is how poor manny was taught by his parents.
>Instead of growing up in a nurturing, loving environment with
>parents who tried to teach him right from wrong, poor manny
>was skeered by those big people living in his house.
You don't know anything about my parents you prosilitizing ass.
Over two thirds of the world doesn't subscribe to your brand of
bullshit. I suppose you imagine your drivel above also applies to all
of them.
Patrick
> The Catholic Church isn't a non-profit organization.
LIAR.
> You don't know anything about my parents you prosilitizing ass.
> Over two thirds of the world doesn't subscribe to your brand of
> bullshit. I suppose you imagine your drivel above also applies to all
> of them.
Just you, manny..... just you.....
duke
Tell that to God when you stand before him in judgment at the moment you die.
default
wrote:
>There's a business, the superstition business, that never pays taxes
Honest, succinct, accurate.
--
mani deli
>On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:54:11 -0400, mani deli <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:05:59 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>"mani deli" <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote
>>>> The church isn't interested in anyone's mom including yours. The
>>>> church is a business in for profit from suckers like you.
>>>
>>>Is that the best you can do?
>>>What good do you do for the world?
>>>Or... are you just a whiner, bitching about you not getting your
>>>piece of the pie? Others get their 30 pieces of silver and you
>>>didn't get your fair share?
>
>>The above convoluted drivel is the best a paying sucker like you can
>>say. The church is a crooked business and you are a victim. You aren't
>>doing any good at all attempting to spread their antiquated idiotic
>>superstition in the present world.
>
>Tell that to God when you stand before him in judgment at the moment you die.
Threats! The final defence of religious fanatics.
You know as much about god as I do, which is absolutly nothing.
However if the guy exists I suspect he also knows that the RC church
is a racket like the others.
>The Dukester, American-American religious fanatic.
>*****
>"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
>Pope Paul VI
>*****
Nothing fails like prayer!
duke
>On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 06:24:26 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:54:11 -0400, mani deli <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:05:59 -0400, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>"mani deli" <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote
>>>>> The church isn't interested in anyone's mom including yours. The
>>>>> church is a business in for profit from suckers like you.
>>>>
>>>>Is that the best you can do?
>>>>What good do you do for the world?
>>>>Or... are you just a whiner, bitching about you not getting your
>>>>piece of the pie? Others get their 30 pieces of silver and you
>>>>didn't get your fair share?
>>
>>>The above convoluted drivel is the best a paying sucker like you can
>>>say. The church is a crooked business and you are a victim. You aren't
>>>doing any good at all attempting to spread their antiquated idiotic
>>>superstition in the present world.
>>
>>Tell that to God when you stand before him in judgment at the moment you die.
>
>Threats! The final defence of religious fanatics.
Sorry, bubba, but I can't threaten you. It's not in my charter. But God did
tell me to advise you of the opportunity you're exercising at eternal demise.
Take it or leave it. It's your final decision. And once you die, there is no
changing your mind.
>You know as much about god as I do, which is absolutly nothing.
Your god is not my God almighty. Your god is letting you down.
>However if the guy exists I suspect he also knows that the RC church
>is a racket like the others.
We are HIS Church.
The Dukester, American-American
mani deli
I protest our bribed government, two idiotic wars and corrupt
corporations by making it a BUY NOTHING HOLIDAY .
default
wrote:
>The next really important holiday is Xmas, The Great Crap Exchange.
>
>I protest our bribed government, two idiotic wars and corrupt
>corporations by making it a BUY NOTHING HOLIDAY .
That's practically a given due to the state of the economy. But I do
share that sentiment.
--
mani deli
is over with the Democrats failing the people and the Republicans
disgracing themselves as having left their minds back in the third
grade (with apologies to third graders).
House Democrats were determined to pass any bill with a nice sounding
name, such as �The Affordable Health Care for America Act�. Single
payer, full Medicare for all was never on the table even though a
majority of citizens, physicians and nurses support that far more
efficient, free choice of health care professionals, system.
There are no effective cost containment or prevention measures in the
bill. The public option is so weak it will be a receptacle for the
sickest of patients among the meager number of people who qualify for
its coverage. There are no provisions to reduce the number of people
(100,000) who die annually from medical malpractice in hospitals.
Nor is there a major program to reduce the tens of billions of dollars
that is stolen yearly out of Medicare from criminals inside and
outside the medical profession.
The cover story in the November issue of the AARP Bulletin is on the
elaborate but detectable schemes to swindle Medicare with phantom
services, phony rentals of equipment, stolen Medicare numbers and the
like. The author, Jay Weaver, writes: �So lucrative, and so low-risk,
the FBI reports, that a number of cocaine dealers in Florida and
California have switched from illicit drugs to Medicare fraud.�
Although more money is finally going for prosecutions, there is
nowhere near enough for this corporate crime wave. Medicare�s office
of Inspector General asserts that every dollar of law enforcement will
save $17 of theft.
Computerized billing fraud and abuse takes anywhere from $250 billion
to double that estimate by the General Accounting Office. (The GAO
said ten percent of health care expenditures are going down the
drain.) The reason why the estimates cover such a broad range,
according to Professor Malcolm Sparrow of Harvard University, is that
there are inadequate resources to document the huge hemorrhaging of
the nation�s health care budget and come up with better data.
Apart from the impoverishment of the debate, there is the actual doing
of harm. The bill, if enacted, doesn�t take effect until after the
presidential elections in 2013, mostly to let the drug and health
insurance industries adjust, though they can scarcely believe their
good fortune at being delivered all those profitable customers paid
for by taxpayers with scarcely any price restraints.
The Journal of Public Health has just published a peer-reviewed study
by Harvard physicians-researchers that estimates 45,000 Americans lose
their lives yearly because they cannot afford health insurance to
receive diagnosis and treatment. Strange how cool the House is to
giving these fatalities a four year pass.
Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), a leading single payer advocate,
voted against this legislation for many reasons, most notably the
Obama-driven omission of his amendment to clear the way legally for
states to pass their own single payer laws. Several states, such as
Pennsylvania, are in the process of moving legislation in this
direction, but are concerned that the health insurers will claim
federal pre-emption.
The victims of medical malpractice � estimated by the Institute of
Medicine and the Harvard School of Public Health to be about 100,000
deaths a year � escaped having to overcome more hurdles before they
have their full day in court. Helping to beat back the Republicans,
who define �medical malpractice reform� as letting the negligent
perpetrators get away with their lethal consequences, was Congressman
Bruce Braley (D-IA).
Rising on the House floor he delivered a factual plea for patient
safety. Hardly had he started to speak with Republicans started
shouting �trial lawyer, trial lawyer� referring to his previous
profession of representing wrongfully injured people before local
juries in Iowa. This rare display of shouting by opponents was
punctuated by one of their unleashed members rushing down the aisle
shouting �You�ll pay for this.�
During this overall debate on the bill, Republicans stood up one by
one, as prevaricatory dittoheads, to often scream and howl (like
coyotes) that this is �a government takeover of one sixth of the
economy,� �would destroy the economy,� �put 5.5 million people out of
work,� �destroy the doctor-patient relationship,� �be a steamroller of
socialism,� �force millions of seniors to lose their current health
coverage� (meaning, Medicare?) and, in a passionate appeal to the
Almighty, Congressman John Fleming (R-LA) declared �God help us as the
government takes over your day-to-day life.�
Never mind that this bill is just an expansion, however misdirected,
of government health insurance designed to increase corporate profits
and increase the corporate grip over the day-to-day decisions
regarding who, when and how people get their health care or get their
bills paid.
To top off the madness, Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT), an ever maturing
political hermaphrodite, reneged on his assurance to Senate Majority
Leader Harry Reid and imperiously announced on Fox News Sunday that
�if the public option plan is in there, as a matter of conscience, I
will not allow this bill to come to a final vote.�
Ralph Nader
The Repubs should really be delighted with this bill but there
allegience to total obstruction prevents it. The have a perfect piece
of devious scum from the Dems and they can still claim terror from the
Democratic. schmucks. They win both ways
The people are fucked as usual. I'm sure many are too dumb to notice.
Patrick
> is over with the Democrats failing the people and the Republicans
> disgracing themselves as having left their minds back in the third
> grade (with apologies to third graders).
>
> House Democrats were determined to pass any bill with a nice sounding
> name, such as "The Affordable Health Care for America Act". Single
> payer, full Medicare for all was never on the table even though a
> majority of citizens, physicians and nurses support that far more
> efficient, free choice of health care professionals, system.
I'm afraid I must agree with mani.
Gee, I was so pissed when the repubs owned the house, senate, and
executive branches - yet failed to pass any meaningful legislation. They
deserved to have their butts kicked to the streets. However, what the
dems are doing is much worse. They are changing the very fabric
of what America is made of. They are leveling the field so that America
no longer is on top of the heap. Socialism at its best. Do we really want
our kids to have less than we have?
mani deli
and abuse the child ? Is there any atrocity this crime syndicate is
not guilty of?
The catholic hierarchy should be banned from taking communion; they
right up there with the Voodoo...
Patrick
Wahhhh!
Wahhhhh!
Poor manny!
He was kicked out of the club and now criticizes it.
duke
>The RCC only cares about money, children, and power. Spare the fetus
>and abuse the child ? Is there any atrocity this crime syndicate is
>not guilty of?
Yeah, the goofy ideas that you have about the RCC.
>The catholic hierarchy should be banned from taking communion; they
>right up there with the Voodoo...
The only thing we do is in accordance with the words of the Lord. Do you
object?
default
wrote:
>The RCC only cares about money, children, and power. Spare the fetus
Money children and power? Their only interest in children is as a
means to an end - money and power. They are thinking decades in
advance and indoctrinating children, is the most effective way of
maintaining power and control.
But "care?" They don't.
--
duke
>On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:31:45 -0500, mani deli <nob...@rinterlog.com>
>wrote:
>
>>The RCC only cares about money, children, and power. Spare the fetus
>>and abuse the child ? Is there any atrocity this crime syndicate is
>>not guilty of?
>>
>>The catholic hierarchy should be banned from taking communion; they
>>right up there with the Voodoo...
>Money children and power? Their only interest in children is as a
>means to an end - money and power.
Yet they have neither. The Melchizedeken priesthood is given to us by Christ,
and is for the spiritual advisement of our souls and assistance to the needy.
> They are thinking decades in
>advance and indoctrinating children, is the most effective way of
>maintaining power and control.
Only a gobbler mind like yours could come up with something like that.
>But "care?" They don't.
How would you know? You don't even bother to look,
mani deli
every noble enterprise�."
- James Madison
"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption,
all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
- James Madison
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even
the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve
of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot.... they have
perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and
jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine
for their purpose."
- Thomas Jefferson
"...religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God,
that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that
the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not
opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole
American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no
law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church
and State."
- Thomas Jefferson