The Credibility of the Church.
Dave of Kan
come about by the countless accusals of clerical misconduct with
children and minors. The coverup by the chuirch authorities has only
exasperated the situation. Now all of what the church manages to say
is in question.
Good. Very good.
Patrick
> The credibility of the Roman Catholic Church is in question.
Only to jerk-offs who NEED a means to hate.
> That has
> come about by the countless accusals of clerical misconduct with
> children and minors. The coverup by the chuirch authorities has only
> exasperated the situation. Now all of what the church manages to say
> is in question.
> Good. Very good.
I have no questions. And I am a member.
You haven't got any right to question the RCC since you are a basher.
default
The RCC was born under a cloud of incredibility - they are just
showing the "faithful" some of their corruption is all.
I think the word you wanted is "exacerbated." But they do indeed
exasperate too.
--
default
wrote:
You cling to the delusion you were indoctrinated with - we who have
come away from the brainwashing with intact minds have every right to
bash Catholicism and brainless Catholics.
I got two new great authors (better than Kent) Dewey Lambdin, read
"The King's Coat" (1989) so far, Julian Stockwin"Kydd"(2001). They
are on par with Bernard Cornwell, can't put them down novels.
I also scored a Douglas Reeman "High Water" (1959). Haven't read it
yet. Douglas Reeman is Alexander Kent writing under his own name;
writing more contemporary, naval historical, adventure novels.
Reading Dudley Pope's "The Black Ship," now, which is a historical
account of the mutiny of HMS Hermione in the West Indies.
--
Patrick
> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>"Dave of Kan" <dave...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> The credibility of the Roman Catholic Church is in question.
>>
>>Only to jerk-offs who NEED a means to hate.
>>
>>
>>> That has
>>> come about by the countless accusals of clerical misconduct with
>>> children and minors. The coverup by the chuirch authorities has only
>>> exasperated the situation. Now all of what the church manages to say
>>> is in question.
>>> Good. Very good.
>>
>>I have no questions. And I am a member.
>>You haven't got any right to question the RCC since you are a basher.
>>
> You cling to the delusion you were indoctrinated with - we who have
> come away from the brainwashing with intact minds have every right to
> bash Catholicism and brainless Catholics.
Have you ever heard of "sour grapes?"
You were kicked out, and now you wish to claim you left voluntarily.
And, you look for others to console your losses.
default
wrote:
>Have you ever heard of "sour grapes?"
>You were kicked out, and now you wish to claim you left voluntarily.
>And, you look for others to console your losses.
It's probably not possible to be kicked out unless one is vocal and
attracts the Rat's attention.
Catholic idiots need to count even the flocks who have flown to
bolster their self aggrandizement and political power. To feel the
power of your delusion you need to continually tell yourself that the
Church is growing even if the numbers suggest slow decline.
The reason you go on about demographic shift as an explanation for
church closings.
--
Patrick
> Catholic idiots need to count even the flocks who have flown to
> bolster their self aggrandizement and political power. To feel the
> power of your delusion you need to continually tell yourself that the
> Church is growing even if the numbers suggest slow decline.
Every religion is encountering slow decline.
As people feel they have more control over their lives, they don't NEED
God anymore. Anyway, it is easier just to stay home and sleep in than it
is to go to church. The latest generation has no idea of who God is.
> The reason you go on about demographic shift as an explanation for
> church closings.
It's true.
Why keep 12 churches open that are all within a few square miles?
Not enough people attend anymore to pay the overhead.
As people get better jobs, they move from the inner cities out
to the suburbs. Downtown Dayton is dying. Poor people
and squatters don't attend Catholic Church. The parishes
in Kettering, Beavercreek, and Oakwood are flourishing.
We had to build a much bigger church in Beavercreek. One parish
in Kettering is growing so fast, they are considering starting
a new Knights of Columbus Council where there was none before.
mani deli
wrote:
>Every religion is encountering slow decline.
You neglect Islam.
>As people feel they have more control over their lives, they don't NEED
>God anymore.
As many people, unlike you, are capable of critical thinking .
> Anyway, it is easier just to stay home and sleep in than it
>is to go to church.
It's even easier to get up and do something more intelligent than
waste time listening to 12th century babble by men in funny hats.
>The latest generation has no idea of who God is.
Just like you.
Patrick
> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>Every religion is encountering slow decline.
>
> You neglect Islam.
No, I don't. Islam is also declining. In certain circles where
the people are better off than others. Muslims in Istambul
are not as active in church activities anymore.
Suadi Arabians aren't supposed to drink, but they do.
There are some great clubs in Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait,
where a Muslim can get alcohol.
>>As people feel they have more control over their lives, they don't NEED
>>God anymore.
>
> As many people, unlike you, are capable of critical thinking .
Was that an attempt at an insult?
Poor quality, at best....
>> Anyway, it is easier just to stay home and sleep in than it
>>is to go to church.
>
> It's even easier to get up and do something more intelligent than
> waste time listening to 12th century babble by men in funny hats.
Gee, when is the last time you were in a church?
>>The latest generation has no idea of who God is.
>
> Just like you.
Perhaps you are trying to say that you do?
Why not just spit it out, if you have something to say.
Your circular reasoning is pretty stupid.
default
wrote:
>"mani deli" <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote ...
>> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>>Every religion is encountering slow decline.
>>
>> You neglect Islam.
>
>No, I don't. Islam is also declining. In certain circles where
>the people are better off than others. Muslims in Istambul
>are not as active in church activities anymore.
>Suadi Arabians aren't supposed to drink, but they do.
>There are some great clubs in Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait,
>where a Muslim can get alcohol.
>
forgive me for trampling your post mani deli - it seemed redundant to
repeat your excellent replies.
>
>>>As people feel they have more control over their lives, they don't NEED
>>>God anymore.
>>
>> As many people, unlike you, are capable of critical thinking .
>
>Was that an attempt at an insult?
>Poor quality, at best....
>
That doesn't have to be insulting - and I guess the fact that you ask
means you realize it. Reason negates religion. If you apply a
critical mind to religion you must come away with the idea that men
invented god.
>
>>> Anyway, it is easier just to stay home and sleep in than it
>>>is to go to church.
>>
>> It's even easier to get up and do something more intelligent than
>> waste time listening to 12th century babble by men in funny hats.
>
>Gee, when is the last time you were in a church?
>
Its only been 5 years for me - but checking out the construction of
pipe organs probably doesn't count. Do tell, what has changed since
the 60's?
Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
churches?
>
>>>The latest generation has no idea of who God is.
>>
>> Just like you.
Or the problem is the "latest" generation has a very good idea of what
god is. That is a good thing.
>
>Perhaps you are trying to say that you do?
>Why not just spit it out, if you have something to say.
>Your circular reasoning is pretty stupid.
>
The invention of man to make man feel important, the invention of men
to enslave other men, the invention of governments to make men docile.
>
--
Patrick
> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>"mani deli" <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote ...
>>> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>>>Every religion is encountering slow decline.
>>>
>>> You neglect Islam.
>>
>>No, I don't. Islam is also declining. In certain circles where
>>the people are better off than others. Muslims in Istambul
>>are not as active in church activities anymore.
>>Suadi Arabians aren't supposed to drink, but they do.
>>There are some great clubs in Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait,
>>where a Muslim can get alcohol.
>>
> forgive me for trampling your post mani deli - it seemed redundant to
> repeat your excellent replies.
>>
>>>>As people feel they have more control over their lives, they don't NEED
>>>>God anymore.
>>>
>>> As many people, unlike you, are capable of critical thinking .
>>
>>Was that an attempt at an insult?
>>Poor quality, at best....
>>
> That doesn't have to be insulting - and I guess the fact that you ask
> means you realize it. Reason negates religion. If you apply a
> critical mind to religion you must come away with the idea that men
> invented god.
Actually, I didn't.
It was so poorly written, I felt he was trying to compliment
me, except that he insults me later, I think.....
>>>> Anyway, it is easier just to stay home and sleep in than it
>>>>is to go to church.
>>>
>>> It's even easier to get up and do something more intelligent than
>>> waste time listening to 12th century babble by men in funny hats.
>>
>>Gee, when is the last time you were in a church?
>>
> Its only been 5 years for me - but checking out the construction of
> pipe organs probably doesn't count. Do tell, what has changed since
> the 60's?
Lots.
Mass is now celebrated in the language of the people.
There is no more "high" Mass or "low" Mass.
Railings have been done away with.
The priest now faces the people instead of presentlng his back.
There is much more lay participation in church affairs.
Pipe Organs? I haven't seen church with pipe organs for a while.
Nuns no longer wear religious habits.
etc, etc.
> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
> churches?
Yup.
In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>>>>The latest generation has no idea of who God is.
>>>
>>> Just like you.
>
> Or the problem is the "latest" generation has a very good idea of what
> god is. That is a good thing.
Or not.
There are no atheists in a fox hole.
They will be back.
If only to pray that their favorite "Browns" can win a game.
>>Perhaps you are trying to say that you do?
>>Why not just spit it out, if you have something to say.
>>Your circular reasoning is pretty stupid.
>>
> The invention of man to make man feel important, the invention of men
> to enslave other men, the invention of governments to make men docile.
OK.
Why were you invented?
To make yourself feel important?
default
wrote:
Taking his statement at face value he merely says that you are not
capable of "critical" thinking. If the operative word is "critical,"
he's 100% correct no matter how he intends it. The church you
subscribe to equates thinking critically or analytically to
"liberalism" and they consider that a sin.
In short, you are not allowed, by your church, to form your own
opinions or interpretations, but to accept only what they tell you.
>
>>>>> Anyway, it is easier just to stay home and sleep in than it
>>>>>is to go to church.
>>>>
>>>> It's even easier to get up and do something more intelligent than
>>>> waste time listening to 12th century babble by men in funny hats.
>>>
>>>Gee, when is the last time you were in a church?
>>>
>> Its only been 5 years for me - but checking out the construction of
>> pipe organs probably doesn't count. Do tell, what has changed since
>> the 60's?
>
>Lots.
>Mass is now celebrated in the language of the people.
>There is no more "high" Mass or "low" Mass.
>Railings have been done away with.
>The priest now faces the people instead of presentlng his back.
>There is much more lay participation in church affairs.
>Pipe Organs? I haven't seen church with pipe organs for a while.
>Nuns no longer wear religious habits.
>etc, etc.
>
Gee. The only churches I went to one "down The City" cathedral class,
did still have a rail I didn't see any mass. The other upstate, also
had a rail, and there was a Christening going on with the usual Latin
mumbo jumble, while I was there.
The one down the city had an organ with straight fanfare trumpets
mounted horizontally out over the seating and the organist was seated
by the pipes - which is nice because the sound wouldn't reach him for
a half second if they were by the altar. The other had ranks of glass
pipes for the higher registers in a small, but from the looks of it,
very rich parish.
>
>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>> churches?
>
>Yup.
>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>
I was going to build a pipe organ - building the pipes was fun, but
the electric valves were a royal pain.
>
>>>>>The latest generation has no idea of who God is.
>>>>
>>>> Just like you.
>>
>> Or the problem is the "latest" generation has a very good idea of what
>> god is. That is a good thing.
>
>Or not.
>There are no atheists in a fox hole.
Even the military acknowledges atheists today. You can choose to have
no religion on your dog tags. The statement "no atheists in fox
holes," does illustrate a good point - FEAR drives men to invent gods
and pray to gods and join religions.
>They will be back.
You may be right. Total economic collapse, leading to a collapse of
infrastructure on a massive scale, and "civilization" would be limited
to the rural areas - until the more ambitious survivors from the
cities invaded the countryside. That may set the stage for a belief
in deities within a few generations. Depends on how it plays out. I
think the government will be overtly totalitarian in an attempt to
hold it together - the question then becomes, will they be able to
supply their police and military with enough food and keep them in
line against the citizens?
Should be interesting - and we may have a ringside seat, for the
opening innings at least.
>If only to pray that their favorite "Browns" can win a game.
>
No idea Browns? Cleveland baseball team?
>
>>>Perhaps you are trying to say that you do?
>>>Why not just spit it out, if you have something to say.
>>>Your circular reasoning is pretty stupid.
>>>
>> The invention of man to make man feel important, the invention of men
>> to enslave other men, the invention of governments to make men docile.
>
>OK.
>Why were you invented?
No purpose, or because my parents chose to invent me.
>To make yourself feel important?
>
That is the pervue of insecure people. I don't need a purpose to
enjoy life. I am.
--
Karen
"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote in message
news:fhv5g5pu61b1b2375...@4ax.com...
> slug aka poo bag and the retardo-dog-marrying ratprick
> bark...@erinet.com
slimed...
>>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>>> churches?
>>
>>Yup.
>>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
National Theater and Concert Hall, Republic of China 1987
Shanghai Central Concert Hall 2007
Sydney Opera House Grand Organ 1979
University of York 1969
University of Nevada: 2004
ar...@hobbiton.net
<ratprick-the-slug-"married"-older-retardo-dog-an...@old.heritage.beavercreek.com>
wrote:
>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote in message
>news:fhv5g5pu61b1b2375...@4ax.com...
>> slug aka poo bag and the retardo-dog-marrying ratprick
>> bark...@erinet.com
>slimed...
>
>>>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>>>> churches?
>>>
>>>Yup.
>>>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>>>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>>>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>
>National Theater and Concert Hall, Republic of China 1987
>
>Shanghai Central Concert Hall 2007
>
>Sydney Opera House Grand Organ 1979
>
>University of York 1969
>
>University of Nevada: 2004
Add: Roy Thomson Hall, Toronto, 1982.
>> I was going to build a pipe organ - building the pipes was fun, but
>> the electric valves were a royal pain.
Be glad you didn't try crafting vales as they were built before
electric ones were devised.
Alan Ferris
<ratprick-the-slug-"married"-older-retardo-dog-an...@old.heritage.beavercreek.com>
wrote:
>>>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>>>> churches?
>>>
>>>Yup.
>>>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>>>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>>>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>
>National Theater and Concert Hall, Republic of China 1987
>
>Shanghai Central Concert Hall 2007
>
>Sydney Opera House Grand Organ 1979
>
>University of York 1969
>
>University of Nevada: 2004
Alexandra Palace, London
--
Ferrit
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
"I always babble nonsense to people"
Patrick Barker
default
roger that
I have volumes one and two of "The Art of Organ Building," by George
Ashdown Audsley. Heavily illustrated with the various pneumatic
mechanisms invented to remotely work the valves.
--
Patrick
>
>>>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>>>> churches?
>>>
>>>Yup.
>>>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>>>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>>>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>
> National Theater and Concert Hall, Republic of China 1987
> Shanghai Central Concert Hall 2007
> Sydney Opera House Grand Organ 1979
> University of York 1969
> University of Nevada: 2004
So, I guess there are few pipe organs outside the older churches.
Thanks for proving the point.
Patrick
>>>>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>>>>> churches?
>>>>
>>>>Yup.
>>>>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>>>>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>>>>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>>
>>National Theater and Concert Hall, Republic of China 1987
>>Shanghai Central Concert Hall 2007
>>Sydney Opera House Grand Organ 1979
>>University of York 1969
>>University of Nevada: 2004
> Add: Roy Thomson Hall, Toronto, 1982.
If we are adding, how about the "Music Palace" in Cincinnati.
Patrick
> I have volumes one and two of "The Art of Organ Building," by George
> Ashdown Audsley. Heavily illustrated with the various pneumatic
> mechanisms invented to remotely work the valves.
Now, I find that extremely boring.
I am perfectly satisfied with knowing the basics of how a pipe organ
works, but the actual minute details of the length of pipe, the hole
required,
the amount of air supplied, or how it gets there....... boring....
As is:
Two small bronze instruments have been found at Pompeii (which was destroyed
by the eruption of Vesuvius in A.D. 79) somewhat similar in appearance to
the portative organs of the Middle Ages. They are now in the Naples Museum.
The cases and pipes only remain, together with some fragments of bronze
which may have had to do with regulating the supply of wind to the pipes.
The blowing arrangements have disappeared entirely, as have the feet of the
pipes, which were probably of wood. The cases are in three portions, the
middle being ornamented with designs of three temples. The smaller
instrument contains nine pipes; the larger, of which we give a diagram,
eleven. The mathematical proportions of the pipes of the larger instrument
give the following series of intervals: 1:middle-c 2:c-sharp 3:d 4:e 5:f
6:flattened a 7:sharpened a 8:b-flat 9:d 10:f 11:a, of which, if Nos. 6 and
7 form an enharmonic diesis, the series 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 gives the Iastian
mode described by Aristides Quintilianus. A writer of the twelfth or
thirteenth century, called the Hagiopolite, whose tract is published by
A.J.H. Vincent in his Notices des Mss. du Bibliotheque du Roi, 1847, says
that the Iastian mode suits the pteron, which would appear to be a
wing-shaped instrument from its name - for pteron means any wing-shaped
thing. (The Germans call the grand piano Fluegel - i.e., "wing," from its
shape.) The pteron is enumerated with the auloi and hydrauloi amonst wind
instruments by Bellermann's "anonymus," (Anonymi de Musica, published by F.
Bellermann, 1847) but he makes no further reference to it. It is possible
that the two fragments in the Naples Museum are ptera, and that the pteron
was a portative organ; it seems to be a connecting link between the bagpipe
and the organ. Whether it was blown by the lungs or by some mechanical
bellows cannot be ascertained; but it is not impossible that the excavations
in progress at Pompeii, which have been rich in results of late, may in the
near future throw more light on the matter. Nero, just before his death,
was much interested in a new kind of syrinx that had lately been invented,
and wished to appear in public as a performer upon it. It may be this
instrument that he had in view.
<yawn>
Patrick
> , "Karen"-the-slug-" wrote:
>>>>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>>>>> churches?
>>>>
>>>>Yup.
>>>>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>>>>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>>>>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>>
>>National Theater and Concert Hall, Republic of China 1987
>>Shanghai Central Concert Hall 2007
>>Sydney Opera House Grand Organ 1979
>>University of York 1969
>>University of Nevada: 2004
>
> Alexandra Palace, London
Hey, my mom has a Burdette Pump Organ with stool.
And, if you are interested:
Theatre Pipe Organ For Sale
CINCINNATI, OH - The 4 manual, 33 rank Theatre Pipe Organ from the now
closed Music Palace Restaurant is for sale.
The organ was originally installed in the Mastabaum Theatre in Philadelphia,
PA in 1929. The console was rebuilt in 1998 after a 1992 fire destroyed the
original. All the other components were not damaged and are originals.
The organ and the entire business are for sale. Inquires can be made to
Barbra Martey at 513-821-1675. Photos can be seen at
http://the-music-palace.tripod.com.
default
wrote:
>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>> I have volumes one and two of "The Art of Organ Building," by George
>> Ashdown Audsley. Heavily illustrated with the various pneumatic
>> mechanisms invented to remotely work the valves.
>
>Now, I find that extremely boring.
>I am perfectly satisfied with knowing the basics of how a pipe organ
>works, but the actual minute details of the length of pipe, the hole
>required,
>the amount of air supplied, or how it gets there....... boring....
Of course you would be bored. That's just one of the insidious side
effects of religious brainwashing and conformity education.
"Unless we tell you its important, it isn't important." Go back to
your Fox "news," try not to drool, and you will be doing as well as
can be expected.
--
Karen
> <ratprick-the-slug-"married"-older-re...@old.heritage.beavercreek.com>
> wrote
>>October 20, 2009
> HOT NEWS ..... HOT OFF THE PRESS!
> 60 years ago.........
+ YAWN
> I demand special recognition as a fag.
+ Get with earl...you and it have ass fetishes.
> Especially a 5th grade teacher who teaches my daughter how to put a condom
> on a banana.....
+ Your bogofs are still in Grade 5?
+ How retarded are they?
>> Monday, June 15, 2009
>
> <Yawn>
+ Old news?
> USA Third World Country....dregs
<Yawn>
> Oh, and we have removed all the fag sick-o priests.
+ YAWN.
> my bride is a dog.
+ HOT NEWS!
> I am a Prostitute kid?
+ Does your "mama" still take it in both "orifices"?
> burbra is a bitch.
+ We know.
> Let me thank Karen for showing more of the
> lies that I provide.
+ YAWN
>>> All of the - ALL - of the multiple abusers were all in treatment
>>> at one time or more.
>>
>> Another blatant lie.
>> Please provide proof for your reckless statement.
>
>All of the - ALL - of the multiple abusers were all in treatment
> at one time or more.
Another blatant lie.
Please provide proof for your reckless statement.
Please provide a list of ALL the "multiple abusers" who YOU claim were "in
treatment at one time or more".
Find a list of countries in alphabetical order, if you can.
Start at the letter "A", and list ALL the "multiple abusers" who YOU claim
were "in treatment at one time or more".
> My goodness. Do you think the priest actually abuses
> children in the confessional booth?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/52884.stm
http://www.rickross.com/reference/clergy/clergy230.html
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/129924.html
Karen
"Alan Ferris" <hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hr97g59ki7bso4bor...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:55:23 -0500, "Karen"
> <ratprick-the-slug-"married"-older-retardo-dog-an...@old.heritage.beavercreek.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>>>>> churches?
>>>>
>>>>Yup.
>>>>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>>>>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>>>>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>>
>>National Theater and Concert Hall, Republic of China 1987
>>
>>Shanghai Central Concert Hall 2007
>>
>>Sydney Opera House Grand Organ 1979
>>
>>University of York 1969
>>
>>University of Nevada: 2004
>
> Alexandra Palace, London
Tsk lad....it's too easy proving slug to be a nincompoop.
Patrick
> "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>> wrote:
>>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>>> I have volumes one and two of "The Art of Organ Building," by George
>>> Ashdown Audsley. Heavily illustrated with the various pneumatic
>>> mechanisms invented to remotely work the valves.
>>
>>Now, I find that extremely boring.
>>I am perfectly satisfied with knowing the basics of how a pipe organ
>>works, but the actual minute details of the length of pipe, the hole
>
> Of course you would be bored. That's just one of the insidious side
> effects of religious brainwashing and conformity education.
yowzer.....
> "Unless we tell you its important, it isn't important." Go back to
> your Fox "news," try not to drool, and you will be doing as well as
> can be expected.
Are you telling me that it IS important?
Alan Ferris
<ratprick-the-slug-"married"-older-retardo-dog-an...@old.heritage.beavercreek.com>
wrote:
>
>"Alan Ferris" <hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:hr97g59ki7bso4bor...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:55:23 -0500, "Karen"
>> <ratprick-the-slug-"married"-older-retardo-dog-an...@old.heritage.beavercreek.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>>>>>> churches?
>>>>>
>>>>>Yup.
>>>>>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>>>>>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>>>>>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>>>
>>>National Theater and Concert Hall, Republic of China 1987
>>>
>>>Shanghai Central Concert Hall 2007
>>>
>>>Sydney Opera House Grand Organ 1979
>>>
>>>University of York 1969
>>>
>>>University of Nevada: 2004
>>
>> Alexandra Palace, London
>
>Tsk lad....it's too easy proving slug to be a nincompoop.
Like stealing candy from a baby
ar...@hobbiton.net
wrote:
Scarcely counts, does it, slug? That was a Wurlitzer theatre organ,
originally installed in a cinema in the 1920s. Thus it would have
been included in your statement, "The only place they [pipe organs]
have ever been utilized is a church or the movie theaters in the
1920's."
When you make a sweeping, absolute statement like that one -- 'the
_only_ place they have _ever_ been utilized' -- you invite gentle
correction, and that's what you got -- a list of places where
newly-made pipe organs have been installed in the past 40 years.
(Alan's contribution, Alexandra Palace,is actually the home of a
19th-century organ -- quite a famous one -- designed by the same man
who built the original organ at the Royal Albert Hall.)
But now, slug, you are objecting to having another one of your
balloons shot down and, although predictable, it's a bit tiresome.
Regarding the Music Palace and its mighty Wurlitzer -- I'm not
surprised that the place failed as a restaurant. I expect it was much
like a similar venue we had in Toronto in the 1980s -- The Organ
Grinder -- which tried to survive in the heart of the downtown area
offering a kiddies' menu and occasional appearances by a well-known
local musician at the keyboard. But eventually even the wonders of
hearing "Lady of Spain" played with the wonderful Wurlitzer additions
of cowbells, steam whistles and sirens isn't enough to make the diner
ignore the quality of the food. The Organ Grinder claimed to serve
Italian food -- in a town with its own Little Italy where one could
find dozens of restaurants, bistros, trattorias and osterias. That
was a mistake. They served only pizza and spaghetti. The pizza crust
had the texture of cardboard and the pasta had all the charm of
SpaghettiOs. The location is now home for a real restaurant running
on the Belgian model -- over 100 brands of beer -- and doing nicely,
thank you.
Come to think of it, slug, you probably would have liked The Organ
Grinder just as you would hate the present Bier Markt.
ar...@hobbiton.net
wrote:
>"Alan Ferris" <hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote...
>> , "Karen"-the-slug-" wrote:
>
>>>>>> Ever notice that there are few pipe organs outside of the ones in
>>>>>> churches?
>>>>>
>>>>>Yup.
>>>>>In fact, I've only known one person to own a pipe organ - outside
>>>>>of a church. The only place they have ever been utilized is a church
>>>>>or the movie theaters in the 1920's.
>>>
>>>National Theater and Concert Hall, Republic of China 1987
>>>Shanghai Central Concert Hall 2007
>>>Sydney Opera House Grand Organ 1979
>>>University of York 1969
>>>University of Nevada: 2004
>>
>> Alexandra Palace, London
>
>Hey, my mom has a Burdette Pump Organ with stool.
Where was it made? Chicago, Erie or Freeport?
Doesn't matter, in any case -- except as a valuation tool for some
potential buyer -- since the Burdett was a 'parlor organ.'
It's not a pipe organ, slug (we were talking about pipe organs,
remember?) but a reed organ. As such, it's not really much more than
a piano accordion with a bigger bellows and an extended keyboard.
I'm a bit surprised -- but only a bit -- that you overlooked a very
good pipe organ in Ohio not to be found in an old theatre or church.
I mean the Norton Memorial Organ (a Skinner design) in Cleveland's
Severance Hall.
The Cleveland Orchestra does not seem to have recorded the Symphony #3
of Saint-Saens. If it had you could hear that organ without leaving
Beavercreek.
ar...@hobbiton.net
wrote:
>"default" <def...@defaulter.net> wrote
>> I have volumes one and two of "The Art of Organ Building," by George
>> Ashdown Audsley. Heavily illustrated with the various pneumatic
>> mechanisms invented to remotely work the valves.
>
>Now, I find that extremely boring.
Who cares?
>I am perfectly satisfied with knowing the basics of how a pipe organ
>works, but the actual minute details of the length of pipe, the hole
>required,
>the amount of air supplied, or how it gets there....... boring....
... unless one is attempting to build one, slug. And that's what
default has been doing -- or didn't you read his post, except to find
some way to sneak in RC propaganda?
Actually -- somewhat interesting ... especially the notion of a type
of Roman organ which was, more or less, a bagpipe with a keyboard.
That connects nicely with the reference to Nero ...
Sorry your range of interests is so narrow, slug. Perhaps that's why
your posts are so predictable and your attempts at wit so feeble ...
Patrick
>>Hey, my mom has a Burdette Pump Organ with stool.
>
> Where was it made? Chicago, Erie or Freeport?
Burdett was a pump organ company that was made by the S. N. Swan Company of
Freeport, Illinois. The company was later under control by the Hobart M.
Cable Piano Company of LaPorte, Indiana.
There were hundreds of pump organ brands made during the height of their
popularity between 1879 and the turn of the century. Most models hade about
the same number of "voices" and the cabinet and facades were the main
element that determined price. These home organs were sold at dealers and
through catalogue venues. Prices ran between $79 and $150 for the most part.
Market value is predicated on what someone is willing to pay for the
organ. The fact that it is still working is its greatest selling point. Pump
organs from this period both in original and restored condition are readily
available throughout the country and are used more for decor than musical
purposes. Antique malls sell these organs from $150 to $800 depending on the
cabinet style. The cost of restoration is usually applied to family pieces
in that they do not have a specific musical application today and the cost
of restoration is more than the value of the organ.
Museums and Historical Societies may be interested if the organ has some
provenance that can be associated with a predominant person or family in the
town history.
> Doesn't matter,
Why did you ask then?
Are you trying to impress me?
> in any case -- except as a valuation tool for some
> potential buyer -- since the Burdett was a 'parlor organ.'
> It's not a pipe organ, slug (we were talking about pipe organs,
> remember?) but a reed organ.
It was advertised as a pump organ.
> As such, it's not really much more than
> a piano accordion with a bigger bellows and an extended keyboard.
<Yawn>
> I'm a bit surprised -- but only a bit -- that you overlooked a very
> good pipe organ in Ohio not to be found in an old theatre or church.
> I mean the Norton Memorial Organ (a Skinner design) in Cleveland's
> Severance Hall.
> The Cleveland Orchestra does not seem to have recorded the Symphony #3
> of Saint-Saens. If it had you could hear that organ without leaving
> Beavercreek.
I don't do cleveland.
Patrick
> Sorry your range of interests is so narrow, slug. Perhaps that's why
> your posts are so predictable and your attempts at wit so feeble ...
<yawn>
And I almost forgot why I usually ignore you.
default
wrote:
>
>> in any case -- except as a valuation tool for some
>> potential buyer -- since the Burdett was a 'parlor organ.'
>> It's not a pipe organ, slug (we were talking about pipe organs,
>> remember?) but a reed organ.
>
>It was advertised as a pump organ.
Reed organs are glorified accordions, and sound about as "good."
--
ar...@hobbiton.net
wrote:
I think I tried telling the slug that. ;)
In my days of living in Toronto I had a friend who was (and still is)
a very good church organist. There was a brief time before he
established his reputation when employment in his field was sporadic
and, just to keep his hand in, he acquired a reed organ. All of his
friends were in the habit of catching his playing whenever he got a
church gig -- but he never played that reed organ for the same friends
when they visited his apartment.
As soon as his cash flow became stable he dumped the reed organ and
got a spinet piano (no room for a baby grand).
ar...@hobbiton.net
wrote:
><ar...@hobbiton.net> wrote
>
>>>Hey, my mom has a Burdette Pump Organ with stool.
>>
>> Where was it made? Chicago, Erie or Freeport?
>
>Burdett was a pump organ company that was made by the S. N. Swan Company of
>Freeport, Illinois. The company was later under control by the Hobart M.
>Cable Piano Company of LaPorte, Indiana.
> There were hundreds of pump organ brands made during the height of their
>popularity between 1879 and the turn of the century. Most models hade about
>the same number of "voices" and the cabinet and facades were the main
>element that determined price. These home organs were sold at dealers and
>through catalogue venues. Prices ran between $79 and $150 for the most part.
> Market value is predicated on what someone is willing to pay for the
>organ. The fact that it is still working is its greatest selling point. Pump
>organs from this period both in original and restored condition are readily
>available throughout the country and are used more for decor than musical
>purposes. Antique malls sell these organs from $150 to $800 depending on the
>cabinet style. The cost of restoration is usually applied to family pieces
>in that they do not have a specific musical application today and the cost
>of restoration is more than the value of the organ.
> Museums and Historical Societies may be interested if the organ has some
>provenance that can be associated with a predominant person or family in the
>town history.
Copied without attribution from
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Piano-Organ-Keyboard-650/Burdett-Antique-Parlor-Organ.htm
>> Doesn't matter,
>
>Why did you ask then?
To find out where it was made, slug. The Burdett Organ Company moved
around -- starting in Chicago, shifting to Erie PA after the Chicago
fire, and finishing its run in Freeport. Knowing where it was made
would provide a date for the noisy furniture you say your mother
possesses, and so could have a marked bearing on its resale value.
>Are you trying to impress me?
Why would anyone on this planet do that?
>> in any case -- except as a valuation tool for some
>> potential buyer -- since the Burdett was a 'parlor organ.'
>> It's not a pipe organ, slug (we were talking about pipe organs,
>> remember?) but a reed organ.
>
>It was advertised as a pump organ.
Pump organ = reed organ, slug. The term "pump" told the buying public
that the instrument had no pedal board and the air supply was worked
by whoever was unfortunate enough to be playing the thing -- not by
someone else working a bellows by tromping on a treadle.
>> As such, it's not really much more than
>> a piano accordion with a bigger bellows and an extended keyboard.
>
><Yawn>
I do that every time I hear a reed organ. Or an accordion.
Dos your mother play "Lady of Spain" on her Burdett?
>> I'm a bit surprised -- but only a bit -- that you overlooked a very
>> good pipe organ in Ohio not to be found in an old theatre or church.
>> I mean the Norton Memorial Organ (a Skinner design) in Cleveland's
>> Severance Hall.
>> The Cleveland Orchestra does not seem to have recorded the Symphony #3
>> of Saint-Saens. If it had you could hear that organ without leaving
>> Beavercreek.
>
>I don't do cleveland.
Or CDs of symphonies, apparently ... do you bother with the Dayton
Philharmonic?
ar...@hobbiton.net
wrote:
Feel free to resume. You're beginning to bore me -- again -- anyway.
Patrick
> I had a friend who was (and still is)
> a very good church organist. There was a brief time before he
> established his reputation when employment in his field was sporadic
> and, just to keep his hand in, he acquired a reed organ. All of his
> friends were in the habit of catching his playing whenever he got a
> church gig -- but he never played that reed organ for the same friends
> when they visited his apartment.
>
> As soon as his cash flow became stable he dumped the reed organ and
> got a spinet piano (no room for a baby grand).
He should have gone for a console piano. Same footprint, better sound.
I did.
Patrick
> Dos your mother play "Lady of Spain" on her Burdett?
She could.
She has since purchased a church organ, and a newer one
last year. I haven't seen it yet.
>>I don't do cleveland.
>
> Or CDs of symphonies, apparently ... do you bother with the Dayton
> Philharmonic?
Sometimes. When they have a decent show.
They played with the USAF Band of Flight last December
at the USAF Museum in Dayton. It was probably the best
concert I had been to in years.
We will be attending their concert on Handel's Messiah next month.
ar...@hobbiton.net
wrote:
I was speaking of my friend's career path and possessions as they were
25 years ago. As of now he's assistant organist and choirmaster at a
very conservative RC parish in downtown Toronto -- conservative in
that it celebrates masses only in the Tridentine fashion, and with
arch-diocesan approval.
That suits my friend's taste in liturgical music very nicely -- he
argues that the field has gone down hill since Bach.
As to the piano he had back then, just before I moved out of town ...
I probably misremembered. His first piano was, in fact, an old player
piano with a scarred cabinet and the player mechanism removed, but a
very good sound; it was always finely tuned. When funds permitted he
got a newer model, which may have been one of the taller studio models
or one of the shorter uprights. Calling it a 'spinet' was my error.
The point, however, was that he would play his piano for guests (or
for himself, with guests present) but NEVER the reed organ.
By now he may have a baby grand, or one of the Baldwin organs. There
was a Baldwin model from the 1980s which did a fair job of emulating a
pipe organ.