Salvation is by the grace of God, not the works of man.. "and as many as had been appointed to eternal life, believed. " Acts 13:48
old man joe
Acts 13:48 is another of the most direct passages in Holy Scripture that plainly declares
believing unto salvation comes after being given life from God. a sermon of the Apostle
Paul beginning in verse 14 of that chapter illustrates that the true gospel is presented
completely without any offer to man that he must " make a decision for Christ " in order
to be saved.
the cult heretic's insist they've believed of their own free will and offer such a gospel.
wonderfully, the Word of God say's to the contrary. the Word of God insist's that
believing unto salvation comes after being given life... no pre-conditions to fill,
whatsoever.
man, being dead in sin in his soul existence simply can not initiate life in himself.
that's the starting point... passing out of death into life by the gracious mercy of God.
once God gives life, which is to say, Jesus Christ who is the Life, then and only then
does man believe unto salvation.
this act of God refuses to give man any of the glory for the doing since there is no life
in the unbeliever. life must come from the One who has it to the one who does not have
it. this is true for the physical life of the body as well as the spiritual life of the
soul.
coupling this text of Holy Scripture with that of those speaking to the Lamb's Book of
Life, it becomes apparent that God has chosen, in and of Himself to His own glory
( Eph. 1:3-12 ) a people to His own Name; an act of choosing on His part which He's done
before He even created the universe.
leaving out no one from the possibility of their being elect unto salvation as the
co-redeemer's do... these insist on being partner's with God by salvation accomplished
only through their invoking Him to save by their preeminent good work of choosing Christ
or some ceremony as the means to salvation... therefore we find in the Bible those saved
as fetuses; such as Jacob, David, Jeremiah and John the Baptist.
salvation unto life eternal by the grace of God is not barred to anyone ( Ps. 97:6 ) since
His direct statement dealing with the salvation of sinful, lifeless man is said by God
that "The things that are impossible with people are possible with God."
( Lk. 18:26,27 )
the co-redeemer's have concocted gospel's which control salvation, barring everyone
incapable of decision making. the mentally impaired are without hope as are unborn
fetuses, babies dying at birth and toddler's... as well as every child not of age to
understand commitment.
thanks be to God in Christ through the Word by the Holy Spirit that no such gospel forged
by God bar's anyone from receiving Christ by the will of God due to their status in this
life as the co-redeemer's would have it. salvation is unconditional as far as man is
concerned. the only condition to salvation is if God has penned into the Lamb's Book of
Life the names of those He's determined to save from the penalty of their sins.
the hypocrites think they are saved by keeping the 10 Commandments. the whole Law of God
is the whole Word of God, not just a little part of Exodus 20. and the Word of God is
Jesus Christ, the Living God. without His pardon no one shall be elect unto Him since one
must have of His Life to hear Him call. John 10.
duke
>
>Acts 13:48 is another of the most direct passages in Holy Scripture that plainly declares
>believing unto salvation comes after being given life from God. a sermon of the Apostle
>Paul beginning in verse 14 of that chapter illustrates that the true gospel is presented
>completely without any offer to man that he must " make a decision for Christ " in order
>to be saved.
Yet many believe that "making a decision for Christ" does not mandate living in
the spirit of Christ, but only giving him lip service. Scripture clearly says
that those that continue to willfully sin after making a decision for Christ
have no sacrifice for sin left for them, but only the fires of hell.
And now you know the rest of the story.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
duke
>
>Acts 13:48 is another of the most direct passages in Holy Scripture that plainly declares
>believing unto salvation comes after being given life from God.
And Heb 10:26-27 is another of the most direct passages in Holy Scripture that
plainly declares that continuing to sin after believing unto salvation deletes
any sacrifice for sin but instead leaves only the fires of hell.
Remember, we must do our part as Mat 7:21 says that not everyone that calls
Jesus as Lord, but ONLY those that **DO** the will of the Father.
There's that magic word, old man Joe = works of the Spirit.
���SAba*GrAcile����
"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> skrev i melding
news:v5vnf5lrbuhej3i2b...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:01:12 -0500, old man joe <ne...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Acts 13:48 is another of the most direct passages in Holy Scripture that
>>plainly declares
>>believing unto salvation comes after being given life from God. a sermon
>>of the Apostle
>>Paul beginning in verse 14 of that chapter illustrates that the true
>>gospel is presented
>>completely without any offer to man that he must " make a decision for
>>Christ " in order
>>to be saved.
>
> Yet many believe that "making a decision for Christ" does not mandate
> living in
> the spirit of Christ, but only giving him lip service.
Doing outer rituals or duty aren't any less lip service, but filth
if you think this is what savior constitutes, you will be spat out.
Lip service through rituals is just another type of it, and shows
no trust. Doing good is something else though.True Christians would
know the diff.
S
duke
wrote:
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> skrev i melding
>news:v5vnf5lrbuhej3i2b...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:01:12 -0500, old man joe <ne...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Acts 13:48 is another of the most direct passages in Holy Scripture that
>>>plainly declares
>>>believing unto salvation comes after being given life from God. a sermon
>>>of the Apostle
>>>Paul beginning in verse 14 of that chapter illustrates that the true
>>>gospel is presented
>>>completely without any offer to man that he must " make a decision for
>>>Christ " in order
>>>to be saved.
>>
>> Yet many believe that "making a decision for Christ" does not mandate
>> living in the spirit of Christ, but only giving him lip service.
>Doing outer rituals or duty aren't any less lip service, but filth
>if you think this is what savior constitutes, you will be spat out.
You're confused. Christ clearly called us, IN SCRIPTURE, to repent of our sins,
pick up our own cross, and follow him in service to God and man. It's called
living in his spirit, living his life.
>Lip service through rituals is just another type of it, and shows
>no trust. Doing good is something else though.True Christians would
>know the diff.
Rituals are not what one would call "salvation-based". But following in the
spirit of God definitely falls in that category.
~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~
Then you're confused about what I mean. Those things you mention there
are works of the heart or spirit. I was talking about the outer, symbolic
type rituals many people think is key, which in fact is garbage to God.
>
>>Lip service through rituals is just another type of it, and shows
>>no trust. Doing good is something else though.True Christians would
>>know the diff.
>
> Rituals are not what one would call "salvation-based". But following in
> the
> spirit of God definitely falls in that category.
Any type of ritual is opposing the heartbased following, so it does not
fall in that category. In fact, nothing is salvation-based, but Jesus and
the
recognizing him as exactly that, which changes you from the inside. Rituals
are superfluous and can remove you from spirit as it becomes a poor
substitute, even demonic. Satan demands rituals, God does not.
Saba
~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~
you believe can add an ounce of savior points with God. Believing that
going to an extra meeting per week or getting more field hours is
earning points or getting you into the book of life is dangerously
misleading. It is anything that an take away from the trust in Grace
that is outer rituals. You can't rely on both Grace and yourself,
it's not possible.
Saba
duke
wrote:
Then we agree - mostly.
The original reference to "following the laws" addressed the Levi laws of
following God, which of course are manmade and of no consequence.
There still remains the issue of attendance at Holy Mass, and the outward
actions associated with the 7 sacraments. These are Holy Scripture, which
comes from God.
>>>Lip service through rituals is just another type of it, and shows
>>>no trust. Doing good is something else though.True Christians would
>>>know the diff.
>> Rituals are not what one would call "salvation-based". But following in
>> the spirit of God definitely falls in that category.
>Any type of ritual is opposing the heartbased following, so it does not
>fall in that category. In fact, nothing is salvation-based, but Jesus and
>the recognizing him as exactly that, which changes you from the inside.
Are you changed from the inside if you reject his teachings?
> Rituals
>are superfluous and can remove you from spirit as it becomes a poor
>substitute, even demonic. Satan demands rituals, God does not.
Jesus himself gave us 7 of them which result in an increase in sanctifying grace
of God. Two of the, Baptism and Confession, are directly related to salvation.
duke
wrote:
>And just to point out what I mean by rituals, is any type of act that
>you believe can add an ounce of savior points with God.
Yet participation is from the heart, and recognized by the heart as granting an
increase in sanctifying grace of God.
> Believing that
>going to an extra meeting per week or getting more field hours is
>earning points or getting you into the book of life is dangerously
>misleading. It is anything that an take away from the trust in Grace
>that is outer rituals. You can't rely on both Grace and yourself,
>it's not possible.
Then why did Jesus give us those things?
~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:34:11 +0100, "~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~"
> <vero...@frisurf.no>
> wrote:
>
>>And just to point out what I mean by rituals, is any type of act that
>>you believe can add an ounce of savior points with God.
>
> Yet participation is from the heart, and recognized by the heart as
> granting an
> increase in sanctifying grace of God.
Gods grace doesn't need sanctifying, it is wholly and enough a power in
itself. If you minimize the sactity of the gift of Grace by acting to add
any
holiness onto it, then where does that leave you?
>
>> Believing that
>>going to an extra meeting per week or getting more field hours is
>>earning points or getting you into the book of life is dangerously
>>misleading. It is anything that an take away from the trust in Grace
>>that is outer rituals. You can't rely on both Grace and yourself,
>>it's not possible.
>
> Then why did Jesus give us those things?
Jesus didn't give us "things", for men to take advantage of, to measure
each and everyone up through, and dish out Grace already given freely
by God. This is the problem, those 'things' has become a currency, and
are only in the way of Grace, obstacles to faith, and setting us up
for abuse and failure, as in organized religion. It doesn't mean we live
in a vacuum, we do have to live by God. Discernment is necessary.
S
~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~
I'm fairly certain Jesus didn't tell us to do these things as a means to
gain
savior points. Recalling what He did for us by the yearly Mass is probably
the only ritual that is important to do, because He specifically said so.
But if you think that doing these things is wheeling you in to eternal life,
then maybe you should reconsider. Then you're hung up on performance,
which is formality based and doesn't mean anything to our living God.
As always, you must know why you're doing what you're doing, which
is what the christian work is all about.
>
>>>>Lip service through rituals is just another type of it, and shows
>>>>no trust. Doing good is something else though.True Christians would
>>>>know the diff.
>
>>> Rituals are not what one would call "salvation-based". But following in
>>> the spirit of God definitely falls in that category.
>
>>Any type of ritual is opposing the heartbased following, so it does not
>>fall in that category. In fact, nothing is salvation-based, but Jesus and
>>the recognizing him as exactly that, which changes you from the inside.
>
> Are you changed from the inside if you reject his teachings?
Not if you misunderstand what kind of principles he taught us
to follow. The following of his teachings is an ongoing process,
after you received the saving Grace, there's always more
acknowledging, inner monitoring and spiritual clearity to
keep changing you. This is not an easy thing to do, and the
sheep are beaten by organized leaders telling them they don't
_do_ enough organisation wize, outer things they are measured
by, speaking for God on how their Grace is coming along.
What do you think God has to say about this?
If the inner process fails, which it _will_ sometimes do,
because we're sinners, then we're still under The Grace,
which is what rituals, elders or anybody else can't modify or
touch. They simply don't have the power to evaluate or
remove Gods Grace from you or anybody else, which they
constantly try to do in their evil abuse. It is a private thing
between your inner effort that only you and God knows
about. That's why relying on orgs, leaders, elders, rituals
and whatnot is useless and dangerous, because you are
performing, but not working on yourself. See how it potentially
takes away, and not adding to anything?
>
>> Rituals
>>are superfluous and can remove you from spirit as it becomes a poor
>>substitute, even demonic. Satan demands rituals, God does not.
>
> Jesus himself gave us 7 of them which result in an increase in sanctifying
> grace
> of God. Two of the, Baptism and Confession, are directly related to
> salvation.
This is were you fail again. The babtism itself means nothing, it is not a
salvation based act. You can't increase grace or make it holier by dipping
yourself in water. Yet, it should be done, because it is a publpic
announcement
of your faith that inspire others to do the same. Confession as well is not
just
another formality to holy yourself up, it is to keep yourself sane, out of
Satans claws, to get grounded again, and to get help from the other sheep,
advice from the elders and to feel safe. It is NOT meant as a trick for you
to undo your sin if you just do it, as if you can undo sins by just speaking
of them. That is Jesus' job, that he did for us when he already died for
our sins. You can't add or take away anything from His act, what is so
hard to understand about that.
>
> The Dukester, American-American
> *****
> "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
> Pope Paul VI
> *****
S
duke
wrote:
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> skrev i melding
>news:bsatf59rn5voola9n...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:34:11 +0100, "~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~"
>> <vero...@frisurf.no>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>And just to point out what I mean by rituals, is any type of act that
>>>you believe can add an ounce of savior points with God.
>>
>> Yet participation is from the heart, and recognized by the heart as
>> granting an
>> increase in sanctifying grace of God.
>Gods grace doesn't need sanctifying, it is wholly and enough a power in
>itself. If you minimize the sactity of the gift of Grace by acting to add
>any holiness onto it, then where does that leave you?
I'm happy to report to you that God shows us that there are things that we do
that are pleasing to him. We are called to serve God and mankind, and the more
we answer God's love to do so, the more he is pleased with us.
To answer your question, if we fully approach the other side, the more we label
ourselves more desiring of eternity with satan than God.
>>> Believing that
>>>going to an extra meeting per week or getting more field hours is
>>>earning points or getting you into the book of life is dangerously
>>>misleading. It is anything that an take away from the trust in Grace
>>>that is outer rituals. You can't rely on both Grace and yourself,
>>>it's not possible.
>> Then why did Jesus give us those things?
>Jesus didn't give us "things", for men to take advantage of, to measure
>each and everyone up through, and dish out Grace already given freely
>by God.
Then why did Jesus "give" us the Holy Mass, and 7 sacraments?
>This is the problem, those 'things' has become a currency, and
>are only in the way of Grace, obstacles to faith, and setting us up
>for abuse and failure, as in organized religion. It doesn't mean we live
>in a vacuum, we do have to live by God. Discernment is necessary.
Obstacles to faith?? Discernment? Out of the question. Discernment can only
mean to move away from God.
You should understand that there are two kinds of sins, the really bad one is
blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Another way to put that is denying God with
our final breath. For that one, there is no forgiveness.
duke
wrote:
>> There still remains the issue of attendance at Holy Mass, and the outward
>> actions associated with the 7 sacraments. These are Holy Scripture,
>> which comes from God.
>I'm fairly certain Jesus didn't tell us to do these things as a means to
>gain savior points.
In a way, you're right. The Jews took that approach. The more "things" they
did, they professed that there salvation was more and more secure. And hence
Paul said that works (of the law) get us nothing.
The other side of the coin is our loving response to God's call to love him and
to serve him and our fellow man. That's works (of the heart), or living in the
spirit of Christ.
Jesus, in his own words, came to serve and not to be served, and he further
called for us to repent of our sins, pick up our own cross, and follow him.
> Recalling what He did for us by the yearly Mass is probably
>the only ritual that is important to do, because He specifically said so.
I'll go with all he said - The Holy Mass, 7 sacraments, living in the spirit,
loving God and man.
>But if you think that doing these things is wheeling you in to eternal life,
>then maybe you should reconsider. Then you're hung up on performance,
>which is formality based and doesn't mean anything to our living God.
>As always, you must know why you're doing what you're doing, which
>is what the christian work is all about.
I know what it is - living in the spirit of Christ.
>> Are you changed from the inside if you reject his teachings?
>Not if you misunderstand what kind of principles he taught us
>to follow.
I know what he taught us. Love him and follow him. He didn't give us the
sacrament of Baptism or Confession, for instance, for nothing.
> The following of his teachings is an ongoing process,
>after you received the saving Grace, there's always more
>acknowledging, inner monitoring and spiritual clearity to
>keep changing you. This is not an easy thing to do, and the
>sheep are beaten by organized leaders telling them they don't
>_do_ enough organisation wize, outer things they are measured
>by, speaking for God on how their Grace is coming along.
>What do you think God has to say about this?
God told us to live in the spirit of Christ.
>If the inner process fails, which it _will_ sometimes do,
>because we're sinners, then we're still under The Grace,
Oh, really. Now that's a nice formula for a quick trip to hell.
Hebrews 10:26-27 (New International Version)
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of
the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of
judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
So much for grace saving the sinner.
>This is were you fail again. The babtism itself means nothing, it is not a
>salvation based act.
That's baptism.
John 3:5-6 (New International Version)
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the
Spirit[a] gives birth to spirit.
Footnotes:
a.John 3:6 Or but spirit
Sometimes I wonder how people can look God in the eye and tell him that you
believe luther before him.
> You can't increase grace or make it holier by dipping
>yourself in water. Yet, it should be done, because it is a publpic
>announcement of your faith that inspire others to do the same. Confession as well is not
>just another formality to holy yourself up, it is to keep yourself sane, out of
>Satans claws, to get grounded again, and to get help from the other sheep,
>advice from the elders and to feel safe. It is NOT meant as a trick for you
>to undo your sin if you just do it, as if you can undo sins by just speaking
>of them. That is Jesus' job, that he did for us when he already died for
>our sins. You can't add or take away anything from His act, what is so
>hard to understand about that.
I stick with God on what he said. I'm not stupid.
~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:36:05 +0100, "~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~"
> <vero...@frisurf.no>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> skrev i melding
>>news:bsatf59rn5voola9n...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:34:11 +0100, "~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~"
>>> <vero...@frisurf.no>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>And just to point out what I mean by rituals, is any type of act that
>>>>you believe can add an ounce of savior points with God.
>>>
>>> Yet participation is from the heart, and recognized by the heart as
>>> granting an
>>> increase in sanctifying grace of God.
>
>>Gods grace doesn't need sanctifying, it is wholly and enough a power in
>>itself. If you minimize the sactity of the gift of Grace by acting to add
>>any holiness onto it, then where does that leave you?
>
> I'm happy to report to you that God shows us that there are things that we
> do
> that are pleasing to him. We are called to serve God and mankind, and the
> more
> we answer God's love to do so, the more he is pleased with us.
>
> To answer your question, if we fully approach the other side, the more we
> label
> ourselves more desiring of eternity with satan than God.
Of course there are things that pleases God, and things we can do or not do
in that regard. But you implied that Gods Grace is not complete in itself
and
needed further 'sanctifying' by the goodness of our hearts or acts. That
could be
approaching the other side, I believe, because pure trust in the power of
Gods
Grace is lowered.
>
>>>> Believing that
>>>>going to an extra meeting per week or getting more field hours is
>>>>earning points or getting you into the book of life is dangerously
>>>>misleading. It is anything that an take away from the trust in Grace
>>>>that is outer rituals. You can't rely on both Grace and yourself,
>>>>it's not possible.
>
>>> Then why did Jesus give us those things?
>
>>Jesus didn't give us "things", for men to take advantage of, to measure
>>each and everyone up through, and dish out Grace already given freely
>>by God.
>
> Then why did Jesus "give" us the Holy Mass, and 7 sacraments?
I explained the Holy mass, which is in fact the only ritual Jesus wanted
us to perform. I don't know about the sacraments, and I've been through
bible gospel enough to know if this was something Jesus talked about.
It is an empty ritual to me. But if it means something to you, maybe you
have to do it. But God doesn't want your rituals first and foremost, it
doesn't make you any more righteous to perform them.
>
>>This is the problem, those 'things' has become a currency, and
>>are only in the way of Grace, obstacles to faith, and setting us up
>>for abuse and failure, as in organized religion. It doesn't mean we live
>>in a vacuum, we do have to live by God. Discernment is necessary.
>
> Obstacles to faith?? Discernment? Out of the question. Discernment can
> only
> mean to move away from God.
>
> You should understand that there are two kinds of sins, the really bad one
> is
> blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Another way to put that is denying God
> with
> our final breath. For that one, there is no forgiveness.
You're becoming harsher by the minute. I thought you're heart followed
Christ,
not a bunch of predetermined rules from your Church, which is Catholic
church,
one of the most blasphemic churches one could ever find, with Mammon at
front, and idolatry, and worshiping Mary with their prayers. I would be more
worried about that, if you want to please the Holy Spirit of God. He
specifically
don't appreciate setting up images of what's holy, pictures and rituals that
takes away from the simple Gospel. If you don't work the inner work without
the outer idols, you're in trouble.
S
~.^.Saba Gracile.^.~
To live in the spirit of Christ, is not a formula either, because
there is no receipe that works, other than the blood He gave and the
gift that It was. Nobody questions a gift, or try to make it better
or moderate it when one receives it, that's it. Same with Christians.
It's just there. I even regret speaking like an illuminist on the matter
in the paragraph above, as you can't change yourself into being
more or less loved by God or deserving of his Grace. Cults,Masons,
JW's and other Satanistic orgs trace their personal change in steps
to get ahead, to receive manmade priveliges to glorify their effort,
(and stomp on Gods free Gift).
Such apporach is a worldly, demonic principle and is undermining
Gods Love through Grace as well. It becomes another ritual to
change yourself and talking new-age like inner processes, like you
can accomplish more love from God that way. In fact, I
begin to think, once we're chosen/has received the Gift,
then virtually nothing can take it away from us, like the bible says.
Nothing can remove us from his Love. Deliberate sins are of
another nature, and that's why we must pray we stay out of
that.
>
>>This is were you fail again. The babtism itself means nothing, it is not a
>>salvation based act.
>
> That's baptism.
>
> John 3:5-6 (New International Version)
> 5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of
> God
> unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh,
> but the
> Spirit[a] gives birth to spirit.
> Footnotes:
> a.John 3:6 Or but spirit
>
> Sometimes I wonder how people can look God in the eye and tell him that
> you
> believe luther before him.
It is what babtism involves that makes it important, not the water ritual
itself.
>
>> You can't increase grace or make it holier by dipping
>>yourself in water. Yet, it should be done, because it is a publpic
>>announcement of your faith that inspire others to do the same. Confession
>>as well is not
>>just another formality to holy yourself up, it is to keep yourself sane,
>>out of
>>Satans claws, to get grounded again, and to get help from the other sheep,
>>advice from the elders and to feel safe. It is NOT meant as a trick for
>>you
>>to undo your sin if you just do it, as if you can undo sins by just
>>speaking
>>of them. That is Jesus' job, that he did for us when he already died for
>>our sins. You can't add or take away anything from His act, what is so
>>hard to understand about that.
>
> I stick with God on what he said. I'm not stupid.
But you don't discern what is important about His word, he doesn't
want mindless doers or followers either.
Saba