Friends, I am scheduled to make a presentation on the 3rd Tradition this month, and so far, I have been unable to find out when the word: "sincere" was removed from the text of the Tradition. Can any of you be of help? "Handsome" Bill (not bald Bill...)
> Friends, > I am scheduled to make a presentation on the 3rd Tradition this month, > and so far, I have been unable to find out when the word: "sincere" was > removed from the text of the Tradition. Can any of you be of help? > "Handsome" Bill (not bald Bill...)
My understanding of this is that the word sincere was included in the 3rd tradition during the early discussions and in the early drafts prior to publication but in the end when the 12 & 12 was finally published in 1953 they (the writers of the 12 & 12) decided to not include the word sincere. I have nothing factual to back this up other than the memories of a friend of mine who has been sober close to 50 years now.
> Friends, > I am scheduled to make a presentation on the 3rd Tradition this month, > and so far, I have been unable to find out when the word: "sincere" was > removed from the text of the Tradition. Can any of you be of help? > "Handsome" Bill (not bald Bill...)
What difference does it make ? Are you "presenting" to a bunch of lawyers ?
> Friends, > I am scheduled to make a presentation on the 3rd Tradition this month, > and so far, I have been unable to find out when the word: "sincere" was > removed from the text of the Tradition. Can any of you be of help? > "Handsome" Bill (not bald Bill...)
Particularly since the AA website has shunted the long form Traditions from contemporary to archival pertinence, http://tinyurl.com/ranyf an amusing aspect of AA's "Traditions" is the dishonesty that generally gurgles to the surface on mention of recovered alcoholics being precluded from A.A. membership by that same Tradition Three.
Perhaps a presentation questioning oldtimers honesty rather than newcomers sincerity may be a bit more exciting.
> "William M. Brown" <cnbbr...@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:lZWdnREDK9ir06XZRVn-sg@comcast.com... >> Friends, >> I am scheduled to make a presentation on the 3rd Tradition this month, >> and so far, I have been unable to find out when the word: "sincere" was >> removed from the text of the Tradition. Can any of you be of help? >> "Handsome" Bill (not bald Bill...)
> What difference does it make ? Are you "presenting" to a bunch of lawyers > ?
Well, Charlie, I like to present facts rather than speculation. To me it appears to be the only change ever made to the Traditions, and I personally am pleased the work "honest" was deleted as I believe in inclusivity - and *yes*, there are lawyers that may be in attendance. I am on a panel discussion of the Traditions to be presented to anybody who happens to be in attendance, AA members or lawyers or not! Handsome Bill
> "William M. Brown" <cnbbr...@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:lZWdnREDK9ir06XZRVn-sg@comcast.com... >> Friends, >> I am scheduled to make a presentation on the 3rd Tradition this month, >> and so far, I have been unable to find out when the word: "sincere" was >> removed from the text of the Tradition. Can any of you be of help? >> "Handsome" Bill (not bald Bill...)
> My understanding of this is that the word sincere was included in the 3rd > tradition during the early discussions and in the early drafts prior to > publication but in the end when the 12 & 12 was finally published in 1953 > they (the writers of the 12 & 12) decided to not include the word sincere. > I have nothing factual to back this up other than the memories of a friend > of mine who has been sober close to 50 years now.
> RonG
Thanks, Ron. I *do* appreciate your input. Being that changing a Tradition would be a long, apparently complicated process, I thought that change would have been "less casual" than that.. Handsome Bill
> "William M. Brown" <cnbbr...@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:lZWdnREDK9ir06XZRVn-sg@comcast.com... >> Friends, >> I am scheduled to make a presentation on the 3rd Tradition this month, >> and so far, I have been unable to find out when the word: "sincere" was >> removed from the text of the Tradition. Can any of you be of help? >> "Handsome" Bill (not bald Bill...)
> Particularly since the AA website has shunted the long form Traditions > from > contemporary to archival pertinence, http://tinyurl.com/ranyf an amusing > aspect of AA's "Traditions" is the dishonesty that generally gurgles to > the > surface on mention of recovered alcoholics being precluded from A.A. > membership by that same Tradition Three.
> Perhaps a presentation questioning oldtimers honesty rather than newcomers > sincerity may be a bit more exciting.
> Bob
Thanks for the insight on the Preamble, Bob. I was asked to do a presentation on a Traditions Panel. I am in no position to question anybody's honesty or sincerity since I am "only" a member of AA who managed to stay sober today with the help of God and the fellowship. Handsome Bill (my critics tell me if I stay around long enough, I may get "honest" enough to drop the "Handsome" and accept my wide part..)
Obviously I've met my match in the pedantry department. Here' s what araa's "original" jimb;-) clarified for us (in the same thread btw) :-
"The 1st edition of the BB had the statement "The only requirement for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking. (April,39)
The "long form" of the traditions was published in the GV in January 46 and remains as it is today.
In November 1949, the Traditions were presented in the AA Grapevine in the "short form" and the 3rd tradition read "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking." This is unchanged. " http://tinyurl.com/s4chf
If I am truly "honest" with myself, I have no desire to quit drinking. I love drinking, I love alcohol, I love the feeling it gives me. My desire to quit drinking is imposed upon me because I can no longer tolerate the effects. Show me an alcoholic that would not love to embrace the habit again if they could embibe "socially" without terrible consequences.
> If I am truly "honest" with myself, I have no desire to quit drinking. > I love drinking, I love alcohol, I love the feeling it gives me. My > desire to quit drinking is imposed upon me because I can no longer > tolerate the effects.
That's arguably why you've only ever paused your drinking, and never genuinely stopped.
> Show me an alcoholic that would not love to > embrace the habit again if they could embibe "socially" without > terrible consequences.
Certainly me, and probably any other real alcoholic who has actually been all the way to rock bottom where, even with alcohol, good feelings have morphed into utter hopelessness; but finding, taking, and nurturing a path to reality, where good feelings can be integral with accomplishments. Sometimes, regardless of other outcomes, good feelings can be simply a serendipitous result of effort.
Thus, as a result of experience, this agnostic distrusts any feelings attributed to the grace of God, be that God Bachus, or not!
PS: Did I merit the celebrated Darren award for sentence structure, too?
>> "William M. Brown" <cnbbr...@comcast.net> wrote in message >> news:lZWdnREDK9ir06XZRVn-sg@comcast.com... >>> Friends, >>> I am scheduled to make a presentation on the 3rd Tradition this >>> month, and so far, I have been unable to find out when the word: >>> "sincere" was removed from the text of the Tradition. Can any of you be >>> of help? >>> "Handsome" Bill (not bald Bill...)
>> What difference does it make ? Are you "presenting" to a bunch of >> lawyers ?
> Well, Charlie, I like to present facts rather than speculation. To me it > appears to be the only change ever made to the Traditions, and I > personally am pleased the work "honest" was deleted as I believe in > inclusivity - and *yes*, there are lawyers that may be in attendance. I > am on a panel discussion of the Traditions to be presented to anybody who > happens to be in attendance, AA members or lawyers or not! > Handsome Bill
Well let's see now - is this part of a CPC or PI effort ? - or are you a lone wolf trying to do something on your own ? - or perhaps some well meaning worker in the field who is trying to explain something they only have an intellectual understanding of ? In any case you might do well to remember that it is the "spirit" of the Traditions that important - they are not contracts. "A code of Traditions could not, of course, ever become rule or law. But it might act as a guide for Trustees, Headquarters people, and especially for AA groups with growing pains. ... The Traditions of AA were first published in the so-called "long form" in the Grapevine of May 1946" - AACOA p203. "The fundamental for AA memebership could thus never be under the control of any other person. Nor need it - nor could it - even be under the complete control of the alcoholic, for the "honest desire to stop drinking" could surely co-exist with a desire to drink ... Yet even asking this limited control proved in AA's continuing experience to be asking too much. The qualification "honest" or "sincere" was dropped in 1949, at the time of the first publication of the "short form" of the AA Traditions." "Not God", p106
