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The Next Ronald Regan??

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jimbo

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Dec 29, 2009, 5:01:42 PM12/29/09
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Subject: Lieutenant Colonel Allen West

This may be the next Ronald Reagan.....and just when we need him
most.

Congressional candidate Lieutenant Colonel West speaking at the
American Freedom tour!

We all need to listen to this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2p91dvm6M&feature=player_embedded

F.H.

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Dec 29, 2009, 5:33:15 PM12/29/09
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LOL, what do you mean "we?" Kanuckistan is welcome to him. When you
have an African American pushing class warfare from the right, the end
is truly near. These ex military guys love the war metaphors, don't
they. LOL, "bayonets" indeed.

gregg

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Dec 29, 2009, 5:41:28 PM12/29/09
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"jimbo" <jbl...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:859887f1-af4e-40ca...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

We didn't "need" the first one. Why would we need another one.

jimbo

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Dec 29, 2009, 6:08:39 PM12/29/09
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On Dec 29, 5:33 pm, "F.H." <connectut...@verizon.net> wrote:
 These ex military guys love the war metaphors, don't
> they.  LOL, "bayonets" indeed.

What's with Obama!! He is conducting a secret war in Yemen. Does he
have congressional approval to attack Yemen?The attempted bombing of
the airliner was retaliation for the American raids. Does he secretly
love the smell of napalm in the morning?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPXVGQnJm0w

Jim

F.H.

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Dec 29, 2009, 6:29:19 PM12/29/09
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jimbo

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Dec 29, 2009, 7:19:41 PM12/29/09
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On Dec 29, 6:29 pm, "F.H." <connectut...@verizon.net> wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/yknqsa6

Contractors will be a guaranteed source of political contributions.
Jim

HankVC

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Dec 30, 2009, 2:09:37 AM12/30/09
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In article <859887f1-af4e-40ca...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,

Who is "we," Lone Ranger? I think that we down here in the States who
have to put up with some of this razzle-dazzle will be happy to send
you any Reagonasaurus Ron wannabes up to your country and let you deal
with them.

Hank

Charlie M. 1958

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Dec 30, 2009, 9:11:05 AM12/30/09
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Overly melodramatic? Sure. But I have to agree in principle.

It's only class warfare if you consider the "entitlement-ists" a class.
I will never be in favor of letting helpless people die on the streets.
But as a former business owner who worked hard for everything you got,
don't you find it disturbing how many people believe that they have a
right to be provided for, and that productivity is optional?

Tex

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Dec 30, 2009, 11:53:01 AM12/30/09
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Sounds a little conflicted here to me. But then life itself is a
series of conflicts. A little blood pumping thru the heart for the
helpless ... at least as to how they die. Yet, still, a little cool
when it comes to how the process produces the helpless in many
instances, with some rays of concern for how they live.

Watching not just this one video it's easy to see he's another of a
line of puppets offered up to rally the troops ... it matters not
which color they are born with ... they all appear to not have the
sense required to realize they in fact are actually puppets. Alot like
and along the lines of being too smart to realize how dumb one really
is.

Doesn't matter, right/left, liberal/conservative, etc. they all have
and offer up puppets! No matter how a puppet is dressed up nor which
song they sing, be it, 'rights' / 'hardwork' it comes out the same;
the puppetmasters run the show!

All the bullshit one side or the other attempt to feed as being the
result of this Puppet or that Puppet is just that ...Bullshit. It
didn't Start with Obama .. it didn't start with Bush .. and it won't
be fixed (if it needs to be fixed) by the next Puppet or one futher
down the line.

Charlie M. 1958

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Dec 30, 2009, 12:33:20 PM12/30/09
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On 12/30/2009 10:53 AM, Tex wrote:

>
> Doesn't matter, right/left, liberal/conservative, etc. they all have
> and offer up puppets! No matter how a puppet is dressed up nor which
> song they sing, be it, 'rights' / 'hardwork' it comes out the same;
> the puppetmasters run the show!
>
> All the bullshit one side or the other attempt to feed as being the
> result of this Puppet or that Puppet is just that ...Bullshit. It
> didn't Start with Obama .. it didn't start with Bush .. and it won't
> be fixed (if it needs to be fixed) by the next Puppet or one futher
> down the line.

I think many, if not most, of the puppets don't even know they /are/
puppets, though.

Many, both left and right, have good intentions. But government is like
one of those old galley ships with all us average Joe's assigned to an
oar. There is always a new person coming along who wants his shot at
manning the wheel and steering us to the promised land. But once he gets
elected he realizes there's a lot of factors he didn't take into
consideration.... shifting currents...unexpected storms... and the fact
that everybody is rowing in a different direction (if they're rowing at
all). Pretty soon he figures out that the best way to survive is to keep
telling the crew what they want to hear, and keep cashing his paycheck.

F.H.

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Dec 30, 2009, 2:10:20 PM12/30/09
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I gave your post some thought this morning over breakfast. I do of
course, have an impulse to knee jerk to what I perceive as probably an
unfair or prejudiced or oversimplified stereotype ("entitlement-ists")
but then maybe you were just fishing. <g>

When discussing "entitlement-ists" /my/ reflexes tend towards much
bigger fish. The playing field is /never/ level. :)

The puppet factor is, as always, alive and well and as you point out,
though the puppets don't start out as puppets, there /is/ a 'history
repeating' factor. Human nature in perpetuity?

Saw a really interesting PBS show last night, "NOVA, What Darwin Never
Knew." They touched briefly on Adolph's inclination to insert some
/unnatural/ into natural selection. Was that crazy bastard by any
chance magnifying the deeper fears we all have? Are we, in spite of our
large brains, ultimately operating from the same basic datum as some eat
or be eaten critter on the bottom of the ocean from whence we came? If
we are..., will evolution solve the problem, and if so will the process
(journey) be ugly? It makes sense that the human unconscious burped up
a prediction that the "meek shall inherit the earth," doesn't it?

Interesting that not all the connections to the word FEAR, are negative:

http://tinyurl.com/y8grtur

The older I get, the less inclined I am to hang my hat on the hat rack
of black/white, either/or, or..., trust anyone who does. The puppets do
indeed seem to fit the category of "too smart to realize how dumb" they
really are, or how /afraid/. "So it goes."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2O3cUN8yWk&feature=related


Tex

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Dec 30, 2009, 3:00:44 PM12/30/09
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:33:20 -0600, "Charlie M. 1958"
<charles...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>I think many, if not most, of the puppets don't even know they /are/
>puppets, though.
>

That was my point to not having the sense to know they are
puppets...though many I think realize they are puppets, but have the
illusion once in the slot they will be able to cut the puppetmasters
strings...a few seem to break a string here or there and pay the price
by being put back into the trunk and replaced by a different puppet.

>Many, both left and right, have good intentions. But government is like
>one of those old galley ships with all us average Joe's assigned to an
>oar. There is always a new person coming along who wants his shot at
>manning the wheel and steering us to the promised land. But once he gets
>elected he realizes there's a lot of factors he didn't take into
>consideration.... shifting currents...unexpected storms... and the fact
>that everybody is rowing in a different direction (if they're rowing at
>all). Pretty soon he figures out that the best way to survive is to keep
>telling the crew what they want to hear, and keep cashing his paycheck.

I'm not much into buying the *good intentions* routine in this day n'
age! Like the so called illusion of the 'middle class' it's really not
much of a requirement ... been replaced by tell'em what they want to
hear and then business as usual. (always been that way, but they
tossed in the illusions)

It's like term limits ...keeps us supposedly free of the bad apples
for unbearable lengths of time and weeds out one's (supposedly)
looking for a soft job/paycheck, but the catch 22 is even if it
worked, in reality the new apples don't get long enough in the barrel
to ripen, thus we toss the good apples out right along with the bad
apples.

Take the banks ... some of them are too big to fail ... or so goes the
song...but there ain't any if any individuals too big to fail. Ronnie
had his trickle down bullshit...Now we got the bail out bullshit ....
it's all a Puppet Master Scam!

Health Care to Health Insurance...shit giving people Health Insurance
is like giving someone a fishing rig to fish in a pond with no fish in
it.

You mentioned ... people thinkin' they got the right to be provided
for & productivity being optional....and how XX being a hard worker
who worked hard...all that stuff is distractions and sideshows ...more
illusions passed down from the Puppet Masters...The PM's know people
are going to eat & fuck ... they can offer up a job where they make
something out of the deal .... remember the ol' bullshit ...work hard
and the least you'll have is a roof over your head and food on the
table...or they can say to hell with ya ... then they don't have
control and instead of workin' & workin' hard and producing ... they
just start takin'! People yelp about the welfare and other entitlement
programs ...not the PM's though ... oh they allow the puppets to yap a
little, but the PM's know there are going to be those that won't work
and even if they did they won't produce ... so as a cost of doing
business they pay'em off ...not because they care about'em ...hell no
... to keep their control and to cut down on the *takin'*/Stealin'
...hell locally we don't have a homeless problem...they just ran'em
outa town! Hah ha!

Message has been deleted

Tex

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Dec 30, 2009, 4:20:52 PM12/30/09
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:10:20 -0800, "F.H." <connec...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>The older I get, the less inclined I am to hang my hat on the hat rack
>of black/white, either/or, or..., trust anyone who does. The puppets do
>indeed seem to fit the category of "too smart to realize how dumb" they
>really are, or how /afraid/. "So it goes."

The older I get the more I want my hat to be black or white ... and
the less it comes up either way. To borrow ...anyone who is over 30
and has a pure colored hat is definitely not to be trusted or at least
not to be taken seriously. And to toss it into the AA pot ...anyone
with over 90 days in AA that can't be see AA is more than merely black
& white has to be as dumb or blind or both as I was for years. (I'll
add ...I'm not smarter now ... I can just see better)

Charlie M. 1958

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Dec 30, 2009, 5:31:16 PM12/30/09
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On 12/30/2009 2:17 PM, Gary wrote:
> On 2009-12-30 08:11:05 -0600, "Charlie M. 1958"
> How many would that be?
>

I don't know, Gary. Enough for it to be a problem in /my/ hometown. My
perception is based in large part on the time I spent working in the
poor community and getting to know some people pretty well. They were
pretty much evenly divided between those who just wanted an opportunity,
and those who may have wanted an opportunity, but also honestly felt it
was government's job to provide them with a minimal standard of living.

But please don't interpret this as me blaming the victim. I'm not
expressing some kind of stereotypical belief that poor people are lazy.
I'm simply stating that the way the system has worked for the last 40
years or so has allowed this belief in government-as-provider to take
root. And the math just doesn't work.

F.H.

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Dec 30, 2009, 5:34:49 PM12/30/09
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Tex wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:10:20 -0800, "F.H." <connec...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> The older I get, the less inclined I am to hang my hat on the hat rack
>> of black/white, either/or, or..., trust anyone who does. The puppets do
>> indeed seem to fit the category of "too smart to realize how dumb" they
>> really are, or how /afraid/. "So it goes."
>
> The older I get the more I want my hat to be black or white ... and
> the less it comes up either way.

LOL, Interesting. I should qualify..., "less inclined" in areas of
controversy. As /I/ get older, I seem intuitively drawn to simplicity.
I guess you could call that black /or/ white. Eliminate the negative,
accentuate the positive. Lately I've become acutely aware that pedaling
negativity is *big* business. The pundits are getting richer and the
citizenry is getting crazier.

If life /is/ (can be) viewed as a series of vignettes (as in 'a short
scene or incident, as from a play') I must be nearing the final act. If
I endeavor to write my own role (create my own reality) for my Swan song
I suspect it might be wise to be mindful of my limitations and go for
something like Court Jester. Anything but a Walmart greeter.

> To borrow ...anyone who is over 30 and has a pure colored hat is
> definitely not to be trusted or at least not to be taken seriously.

Take them seriously, they can be dangerous, like Lieutenant Colonel fix
the world, (make everyone like the Marines). ;)

> And to toss it into the AA pot ...anyone with over 90 days in AA that

> can't see AA is more than merely black & white has to be as dumb or

> blind or both as I was for years. (I'll add ...I'm not smarter now ...
> I can just see better)

Faux humility noted but there is a direct correlation between seeing
better and being smarter. Maybe it just doesn't take all that /much/
smarter where AA is concerned. :)


F.H.

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Dec 30, 2009, 6:09:48 PM12/30/09
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If you believe that "government as provider" /has/ taken root and has
for 40 years, I don't see how that can be anything other than a kind of
stereotype. Or a bad sampling? Small /personal/ samples may or may not
have built in prejudice but they /are/ suspect (IMO) if restricted to
one part of a city, state of country. (Hell, I'm struggle with negative
stereotypes just from the sampling around this household). :)

If the /right/ question has to do with human nature (I think it does)
then the answers come through the culture, (striving for equal
opportunity or not).

One thing (IMO) that is indisputable is that lack of opportunity and
reliance on public assistance can and do lead to more of the same,
(people believing they are entitled or owed or lacking belief in the
system in terms of having a future or opportunities).

The can of worms comes when looking for a solution because the
discussion always seems to bring out the emphasis (stereotypes) by one
special interest group or another. Maybe it will always be that way.

Will a 'survival of the fittest' culture (species?) have this problem
until its /own/ survival is perceived to be at risk? Morning line: 8/5.

Charlie M. 1958

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Dec 30, 2009, 6:28:57 PM12/30/09
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On 12/30/2009 5:09 PM, F.H. wrote:

> One thing (IMO) that is indisputable is that lack of opportunity and
> reliance on public assistance can and do lead to more of the same,
> (people believing they are entitled or owed or lacking belief in the
> system in terms of having a future or opportunities).

And that is exactly what I was trying to say.


>
> The can of worms comes when looking for a solution because the
> discussion always seems to bring out the emphasis (stereotypes) by one
> special interest group or another. Maybe it will always be that way.

How else could it be?

>
> Will a 'survival of the fittest' culture (species?) have this problem
> until its /own/ survival is perceived to be at risk? Morning line: 8/5.
>

I'm glad I'm not a betting man. :-)

F.H.

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Dec 30, 2009, 6:54:54 PM12/30/09
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Tex

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Dec 31, 2009, 12:21:56 AM12/31/09
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:34:49 -0800, "F.H." <connec...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>Faux humility noted but there is a direct correlation between seeing
>better and being smarter. Maybe it just doesn't take all that /much/
>smarter where AA is concerned. :)

There's always a risk of faux humility when one strives not to come
out or be viewed as perched on the other end of the stick ...hard to
avoid one or the other when one tries to describe some of the concrete
finally setting around their feet.

One would think what with age, experience, and hopefully some wisdom
one could finally become a fence post sort standing straight and set
in concrete.... maybe some do ... me I feel like the one the wire has
fallen off and I'm leaning towards the ground and a good wind could
turn me around if not blow me completely down.

Seems like years of experience and observation has muddy'd the waters
more than they have cleared them up!

Maybe it ain't seeing or being smarter ... it's just god revealing
...now that's a frightening thought!

Message has been deleted

Charlie M. 1958

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Dec 31, 2009, 1:33:32 PM12/31/09
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On 12/31/2009 11:06 AM, Gary wrote:

> In a capitalistic economy, you are always going to have the haves and
> have nots. The question is what do you do with the have nots? This is
> exactly why socialism (read compassion) appleals to some. Of course,
> people are poor because it's God's punishment. Sure there are slobs who
> leech off the system but they aren't confined to the lower end of
> society. There is much more going on from the top end taking from the
> middle. Or didn't you notice? As long as there is competition and greed,
> there will be people taking. The rich say it belongs to them because
> they earned it and that my be questionable in many ways. The poor say
> they just can't get it and I'm sure there are 'deadbeats' who live off
> the 'system' but we have to not let people starve in this country, don't
> you think? And we have to not assume that people who draw funds from the
> govenment are all crooks, like Blackwater or defense contractors who pad
> their expenses, etc. But I've always noticed that the 'middle class' is
> the most outraged because of welfare.
>

I don't know... I see a fair amount of middle class outrage over being
constantly screwed by the rich and powerful. Perhaps the difference is
that fighting the crooks at the top end seems futile to most folks,
while shooting for the ones at the bottom seems more do-able. File that
under sad but true.

I guess I should have been more careful when I said I agreed in
principle with the guy in the clip from the original post. It wasn't his
outrage I was identifying with. I really wasn't even talking about the
low end scammers who intentinally milk the system. I was really
expressing my frustration at the fact that our mismanagement (for lack
of a better word) of the have-nots has brought us to point where people
several generations into welfare existence have come to accept it as the
way things are supposed to be.

F.H.

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Dec 31, 2009, 1:42:48 PM12/31/09
to
Gary wrote:
> "Charlie M. 1958" said:

>> But please don't interpret this as me blaming the victim. I'm not
>> expressing some kind of stereotypical belief that poor people are
>> lazy. I'm simply stating that the way the system has worked for the
>> last 40 years or so has allowed this belief in government-as-provider
>> to take root. And the math just doesn't work.

> In a capitalistic economy, you are always going to have the haves and
> have nots. The question is what do you do with the have nots? This is
> exactly why socialism (read compassion) appleals to some. Of course,
> people are poor because it's God's punishment. Sure there are slobs who
> leech off the system but they aren't confined to the lower end of
> society. There is much more going on from the top end taking from the
> middle. Or didn't you notice? As long as there is competition and
> greed, there will be people taking. The rich say it belongs to them
> because they earned it and that my be questionable in many ways. The
> poor say they just can't get it and I'm sure there are 'deadbeats' who
> live off the 'system' but we have to not let people starve in this
> country, don't you think? And we have to not assume that people who
> draw funds from the govenment are all crooks, like Blackwater or defense
> contractors who pad their expenses, etc. But I've always noticed that
> the 'middle class' is the most outraged because of welfare.

Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year, one every 12
minutes, in large part because they lack health insurance and can not
get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis
released on Thursday.

('more than drunk driving and homicide combined')

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58G6W520090917

The health care sector has spent $263 million this year lobbying
Congress for changes to reform plans.

How many people could purchase health insurance with that much money?

According to USA Today, the average health insurance premium for an
individual is $4824. Dividing $263 million by $4824 tells us that 54,500
individuals could have purchased health insurance with the funds spent
by the health care lobby this year.

Tex

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Dec 31, 2009, 2:39:22 PM12/31/09
to
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:33:32 -0600, "Charlie M. 1958"
<charles...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I was really
>expressing my frustration at the fact that our mismanagement (for lack
>of a better word) of the have-nots has brought us to point where people
>several generations into welfare existence have come to accept it as the
>way things are supposed to be.

It 's just that it's welfare ... but a couple generations into
whatever and people start to think whatever is the way it's suppose to
be.

Funny around here ... basically... ya went to work for the gov't,
logging, sawmill or State Hospital .... now there isn't any logging
locally, no sawmills, and the State Hospital has cut way back or
contracted out ....I suppose in a couple generations and Walmart (&
the like) fold up and people are sitting around doing nothing for a
couple generations (mostly because there isn't really anything to do)
they'll think that's how it's suppose to be.

If they ever cut out crime ....and do away with the prisons ...
locally we will hit 50% unemployment instead of the 16/17% we have now
that shows up in the stats.

A good career around here is to get into the position where ya can
draw a VA Nut Check or Social Security Disability Check .... anything
else unlike times past has no real security.

The have's might get a little more and move farther away from ya, but
if the have not's gets a tad more than you than they get ahead of you
... and people can handle someone stretching their lead a bit ...but
falling behind ...well that's just intolerable! If someone is ahead of
ya you can shake it off with they got the breaks or they are smarter
etc., but if someone comes shooting by ya, well it means ya fucked up
somewhere along the line. Ya lose da hope ... and without the hope ya
might as well just sit on your ass and forget about it.

Most generational shit don't get really wiped out by a stroke of the
pen or a small pot of $$ and certainly not by targeting the ones
already infected ... ya have to start working on the unborn kids kids.

Not only do we suffer from Puppets...but there just aren't any real
good 'hope' & 'illusion' salesmen left to hoodwink the people on a
long term basis.... a few can do it for a year maybe two and that's
about it.

F.H.

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Dec 31, 2009, 2:50:24 PM12/31/09
to
Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> On 12/31/2009 11:06 AM, Gary wrote:
>
>> In a capitalistic economy, you are always going to have the haves and
>> have nots. The question is what do you do with the have nots? This is
>> exactly why socialism (read compassion) appleals to some. Of course,
>> people are poor because it's God's punishment. Sure there are slobs who
>> leech off the system but they aren't confined to the lower end of
>> society. There is much more going on from the top end taking from the
>> middle. Or didn't you notice? As long as there is competition and greed,
>> there will be people taking. The rich say it belongs to them because
>> they earned it and that my be questionable in many ways. The poor say
>> they just can't get it and I'm sure there are 'deadbeats' who live off
>> the 'system' but we have to not let people starve in this country, don't
>> you think? And we have to not assume that people who draw funds from the
>> govenment are all crooks, like Blackwater or defense contractors who pad
>> their expenses, etc. But I've always noticed that the 'middle class' is
>> the most outraged because of welfare.
>>
>
> I don't know... I see a fair amount of middle class outrage over being
> constantly screwed by the rich and powerful. Perhaps the difference is
> that fighting the crooks at the top end seems futile to most folks,
> while shooting for the ones at the bottom seems more do-able. File that
> under sad but true.

With class tension, shit tends to roll downhill. :)

> I guess I should have been more careful when I said I agreed in
> principle with the guy in the clip from the original post. It wasn't his
> outrage I was identifying with. I really wasn't even talking about the

> low end scammers who intentionally milk the system. I was really

> expressing my frustration at the fact that our mismanagement (for lack
> of a better word) of the have-nots has brought us to point where people
> several generations into welfare existence have come to accept it as the
> way things are supposed to be.

Handicapping horses has a lot in common with making predictions on human
outcomes, especially in economics. Marx, (I read somewhere) was
essentially an economist and I can certainly see how he would make some
of the predictions he did like that "capitalism was a necessary
precondition for socialism." On the other hand, maybe he calculated
incorrectly (or didn't project out far enough).

It seems to me that economists are basically handicappers of human
tendencies but that part is seldom mentioned. /Actually/, Adam Smith
was a philosopher. The 'Wealth of Nations' along with the 'function of
markets' dealt with the 'role of self interest' but that was before the
accent of psychology and the industrial revolution. Farming, I presume,
was the main factor in the economy.

Still..., Smith noted "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because
its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience." That
certainly resonates with me today.

If human beings are essentially /emotional/ creatures (as my shrink pal
used to say) who are forever caught up in territorial disputes (as
history suggests) then *that* it seems to me is the most reliable
predictor of future outcomes by way of economic or social theory for
Homo sapiens.

Tyrants are tyrants, irrespective of their social/economic theories (or
trumpeted virtues) and there has never been a shortage of them so the
task for the masses over the long haul may be to somehow keep alive the
notions of our founders with respect to 'by and for the people.'

With the ever increasing clout of corporations /this/ handicapper makes
that a longshot.

FYI, been skimming over Marx's Revenge by Meghnad Desai. Did you know
that Lenin was a defender of Capitalism against the Narodniks (the late
nineteenth century equivalent of the anti-globalists?)

Apparently there was sound reasoning being Marx being bound to the word
"struggle."
Narodniks (sound familiar?):
http://www.marxists.org/glossary/orgs/n/a.htm

"So it goes."

jimbo

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Jan 1, 2010, 1:12:59 PM1/1/10
to
On Dec 31 2009, 1:42 pm, "F.H." <connectut...@verizon.net> wrote:

> The health care sector has spent $263 million this year lobbying
> Congress for changes to reform plans.

They spend the money b/c they know that your crooked system allows
them to influence public policy. That is the real crime. What are
considered political contributions and in the U.S. are considered as
corruption is most western countries.

Jim

F.H.

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Jan 1, 2010, 1:53:36 PM1/1/10
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Heh, yes. /Buying/ instead of lobbying would have been more accurate.
Not that there aren't a boatload of wingers who really buy into the
religion of trickle down.

Tex

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Jan 1, 2010, 3:50:02 PM1/1/10
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On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:53:36 -0800, "F.H." <connec...@verizon.net>
wrote:

Man you guys lack faith in your fellow man!

F.H.

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Jan 1, 2010, 4:42:25 PM1/1/10
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Tex wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:53:36 -0800, "F.H." wrote:

>
>> jimbo wrote:
>>> "F.H." <connectut...@verizon.net> wrote:

>>>> The health care sector has spent $263 million this year lobbying
>>>> Congress for changes to reform plans.

>>> They spend the money b/c they know that your crooked system allows
>>> them to influence public policy. That is the real crime. What are
>>> considered political contributions and in the U.S. are considered as
>>> corruption is most western countries.


>> Heh, yes. /Buying/ instead of lobbying would have been more accurate.
>> Not that there aren't a boatload of wingers who really buy into the
>> religion of trickle down.


> Man you guys lack faith in your fellow man!

"A pessimist is an optimist with experience."

Tex

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Jan 1, 2010, 6:06:24 PM1/1/10
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On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 13:42:25 -0800, "F.H." <connec...@verizon.net>
wrote:

AA ain't religious it's spiritual. ....

Message has been deleted

jimbo

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Jan 2, 2010, 12:45:51 AM1/2/10
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On Jan 1, 9:58 pm, Gary <yex...@sbell.net> wrote:
> You know, I think you nailed it.  The argument for 'contributions' is
> based on 'free speech' but that's a bogus euphimism if I ever heard
> one.  It would obviously mean that people who don't contribute money
> don't get their 'free speech'.  But corruption fits.  People spending
> money to obviously buy the votes.  Very good.  Very very good.

What amazes me with your system is the lack of party discipline. In
our parliamentary system a member must have a really good reason to go
against the party policy and people get expelled from caucus for not
toeing the party line. The weakness in our system is that we now have
4 parties with seats and it gets harder for a minority gov't to pass
legislation and as a result they must "buy" the votes of another party
by watering down legislation or going totally against their political
philosophy.

Jim

Sharx35

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Jan 2, 2010, 6:21:14 AM1/2/10
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"jimbo" <jbl...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:4196b43d-cb5e-481a...@h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...

What he said. However, stateside, they seem to have similar problems, hence
all those "earmarks" attached to many bills.


Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

F.H.

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Jan 5, 2010, 5:15:01 PM1/5/10
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Gary wrote:
> Would you rather have compromise and consensus or just one party with
> majority votes making the leaders of the party sort of like, well,
> dictators. Pelosi. Reid. Compromise and/or consensus doesn't seem to
> foment revolution, dirty politics, corruption as much.

Hell Gar, the way its set up in the senate now they can go a long time
and never accomplish anything, majority or no. When /I/ think of
elected dictators, my favorite will probably always be Tom Delay and
particularly his actions (or inaction) with regard to the Marianas, the
miracle of capitalism at work (slave labor).

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/09/real.delay/


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Hiccum Blurpaedius

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Jan 5, 2010, 7:12:35 PM1/5/10
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On Jan 5, 6:11 pm, Gary <yex...@sbell.net> wrote:
> Viable 'economic systems' need slaves.  Strong unions with decent pay
> would destroy both capitalism and socialism.  There are two 'things'
> that rule the world, 'power' and 'money' which often go togehter (but
> not in our circles).  We get propoganda from grade school about how
> good we have it.  Well, except when the economy goes crash and then the
> majority lose.  Stupid people (and I'm one) buy into stupid shit and
> march along singing someone else's marching tune.  But then...you die.  
> At or near broke.  Great ride, eh?

You cannot have unions without freedom of speech. Something that is
illegal in the police states unless you are a christian jew cop.

F.H.

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Jan 5, 2010, 7:28:16 PM1/5/10
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Gary wrote:
> Viable 'economic systems' need slaves. Strong unions with decent pay
> would destroy both capitalism and socialism. There are two 'things'
> that rule the world, 'power' and 'money' which often go togehter (but
> not in our circles). We get propoganda from grade school about how good
> we have it. Well, except when the economy goes crash and then the
> majority lose. Stupid people (and I'm one) buy into stupid shit and
> march along singing someone else's marching tune. But then...you die.
> At or near broke. Great ride, eh?

We've understood the bargain for a long time. Not over yet. Plenty of
laughs (and tears) remain.

Becker:
"I think that taking life seriously means something such as this: that
whatever man does on this planet has to be done in the lived truth of
the terror of creation, of the grotesque, of the rumble of panic
underneath everything. Otherwise it is false. Whatever is achieved must
be achieved with the full exercise of passion, of vision, of pain, of
fear, and of sorrow. How do we know ... that our part of the meaning of
the universe might not be a rhythm in sorrow?"

And since he omitted love in the above quotation:

"When we understand that man is the only animal who must create meaning,
who must open a wedge into neutral nature, we already understand the
essence of love. Love is the problem of an animal who must find life,
create a dialogue with nature in order to experience his own being."
[end quotes]

My shrink pal Kris used to say that "sometimes ya just gotta vent a
little to regain a healthy perspective."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReeiQZslHk8


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