Navigation lights?

[Eddy Matthews]

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me what navigation lights/ warning lights are required on a
hovercraft operating at sea?

I'm just completing a radio controlled model of a Griffon 3000TDX, and would
like to add navigation lights to the model, but have been unable to find any
references that I can use.

Griffon hovercraft seem unwilling to help, and just ignore my emails, so ANY
help would be welcome.

Regards
Eddy

[Ken Roberts]

the REQUIREMENTS are the same for a boat of the same class, with the possible
addition of a 'non-displacement hull' light. what the griffon actually uses i
have no idea.

[Tony]

Where are you? In the States or Europe or where?
Tony

"Eddy Matthews" <edward....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1ffe6.745$Ee3....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

[James Billings]

"Eddy Matthews" <edward....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1ffe6.745$Ee3....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...

I read they should have an Orange flashing light to indiacte the
Port/Starboard red + green may not actually be correct... Read it in a book,
but I cant recall the title
James

[ear...@my-deja.com]

In article <Ntke6.1637$Ee3....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,

The navigational lighting requirements for a hovercraft under 50
meters in length are: a masthead light forward, and either a combination
red/green bow light or separated red and green sidelights, a sternlight
and a yellow flashing light with a rate of not less than 120 flashes per
minute located at a height less than the masthead light. The flashing
yellow light is used only when operating in non displacement mode. the
lights are to be used at night or in times of limited visibility as with
any other boat. When the lights are in use, no other lights may be used
that will obstruct or confuse the required light pattern for the craft.

Earl

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

[James Billings]

<ear...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95coij$hmk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <Ntke6.1637$Ee3....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,

> The navigational lighting requirements for a hovercraft under 50
> meters in length are: a masthead light forward, and either a combination
> red/green bow light or separated red and green sidelights, a sternlight
> and a yellow flashing light with a rate of not less than 120 flashes per
> minute located at a height less than the masthead light. The flashing
> yellow light is used only when operating in non displacement mode. the
> lights are to be used at night or in times of limited visibility as with
> any other boat. When the lights are in use, no other lights may be used
> that will obstruct or confuse the required light pattern for the craft.
>

I was close then!
James

[Eddy Matthews]

Hi all,

Just a quick note to say thanks to everyone that replied to my question on
navigation lights.... Ken, James & Earl, you were especially helpful.
Cheers.

Regards
Eddy

[Ken Roberts]

WOW! i was helpful?!?

this is TOTALLY unexpected.

[robert....@namedpipes.com]

In article <95coij$hmk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

ear...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <Ntke6.1637$Ee3....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
> "James Billings" <maz...@NOSPAM.dial.pipex.com> wrote:
> >
> > "Eddy Matthews" <edward....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:1ffe6.745$Ee3....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Can anyone tell me what navigation lights/ warning lights are
> required on a hovercraft operating at sea?

> The navigational lighting requirements for a hovercraft under 50

> meters in length are: a masthead light forward, and either a
> combination red/green bow light or separated red and green sidelights,
> a sternlight and a yellow flashing light with a rate of not less than
> 120 flashes per minute located at a height less than the masthead
> light. The flashing yellow light is used only when operating in non
> displacement mode.

Whoopsies.

The yellow flasher *must* be lower than the white masthead light? The CG Nav
Rules only seem to say the yellow light should "exhibit ... where it can best
be seen." pg. 47 navrules.

I'd planned to mount the masthead light on the windshield frame on a short
mast (12" or so) and the yellow light top center on the thrust duct.

Most hovercraft I've seen are higher at the stern.

*
+---\
| \ *
| \ +--\
| \------| \
| \_____| \------\
/==========================\
{____________________________}

Something like that - the higher, stern * is the yellow - the lower * is the
masthead light - the green/red to each side more or less around the base of
the windshield - stern light below the thrust duct - please pardon my drawing
skills...

[Dave Schneider]

I'm still confused. Here is a link to the USCG navigational light
regulations. According to this, the masthead light has to be 1 meter above
the red/green lights (called side lights). It appears that if your under
under 39', which most of us are, the only white light needed is the masthead
light.
http://www.uscgboating.org/reg/reg_fr_equipReq_navRulesNLights.asp

I don't see anything on the flashing orange light. Does anyone have a link
handy?

Thanks,
Dave

[Juergen]

USCG regs for download (including the flashing yellow):
http://www.uscg.mil/vtm/navrules/navrules.pdf
I think it was around page 46...........

You don't need a masthead light for small crafts. The all around white
which is used as an anchor light too is sufficient.

Red-green, all-around white and flashing yellow, all visible 2 miles at
night (=> ~3-5W bulbs) are all you need at night and limited visibility.

Juergen

Member of The Hovercraft Cruising Club, a free web-based club.
http://thcc.freewebsites.com (US-Server)
http://users.yoobay.de/thcc/ (EU-server)

Juergen's Hovercraft Homepage: http://kjs.freewebsites.com
----------------------------------------------------------
In article <t7mtan...@corp.supernews.com>,

--

[Bill Healy]

Go to http://www.uscg.mil/vtm/navrules/navrules.pdf and read Rule 23, make
sure you read (a), (b) & (c).

Bill

"Dave Schneider" <schn...@isd.net> wrote in message
news:t7mtan...@corp.supernews.com...

[Dave Schneider]

Thanks! Now it's clear ... or at least as clear as a government document
can get.

Dave Schneider <schn...@isd.net> wrote in message
news:t7mtan...@corp.supernews.com...
>

[Dave Schneider]

Can anyone recommend a e-commerce site that deals in marine lighting? I
wonder how hard it'll be to find this yellow flashing unit.

Thanks,
dave

[Tony]

I have seen one that was the same as on breakdown trucks, which is what I'm
going to use
Tony

"Dave Schneider" <schn...@isd.net> wrote in message

news:t7ol0kd...@corp.supernews.com...

[ear...@my-deja.com]

In article <t7ol0kd...@corp.supernews.com>,

I answered this earlier today, but apparently the post is lost
someplace, so here goes again.

For recreational size hovercraft one all around white light is required.
It is to be located on the forward half of the hovercraft. (that means
between amidships and the bow) It must be visable for 360 degrees and
two miles and therefor must be above any obstruction the structure of
the craft may pose. Normally it will be mounted atop a pipe or mast.
The flashing YELLOW light is mounted lower that the all around white.
the flashing yellow may be mounted on the same mast or atop any
structure below the white as long as it too is visable for 360 degrees
and 2 miles. I believe verticle separation between the white and yellow
is supposed to be a minimum of 1 meter, but I am still trying to find
that spec in the regs.

As for looking for a flashing yellow light, it is simpler and cheaper to
make your own. Just go to any marine supply and buy a white masthead
light and buy a yellow replacement lens for it. Then go to the NAPA
auato parts store and buy a bulb #1156NA 12V/27W and a Wagner Signal
Flasher #552. Depending on what marine masthead light you purchased,
you may have to change the light socket. With the Wagner552 flasher on
a 12 volt system, the flash rate will be 118fpm. Close enough to the
reg specs of 120fpm.

Earl

[Bill Healy]

Hey Earl, how big of a hover are you building??? :) According to Rule 23 (c)
you don't need a masthead light or stern light if under 12 meters.

Lights and Shapes
RULE 23
Power-driven Vessels Underway
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) a masthead light forward;
(ii) a second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward
one; except that a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall
not be obliged to exhibit such light but may do so;
(iii) sidelights; and
(iv) a sternlight.

(b) An air-cushion vessel when operating in the nondisplacement
mode shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this
Rule, exhibit an all-round flashing yellow light where it can best be seen.

(c) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may, in
lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an
all-round white light and sidelights.

<ear...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95iac2$vv2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[Dave Schneider]

Man, I hate these goverment documents. It's clear as mud!

I just read the USCG regs and I didn't see any mention of where the yellow
flashing light is suppose to be. In their picture the unit is in the stern
about the same level as the mast head light. I'm putting mine on top of
the thrust duct. I've also seen pictures at various web sites with the
flasher on top of the thrust duct.

I'm not sure about your interpretation of the placement of the all around
light. Motorize boats over 40' have to have both a white mast head light
and white stern light (neither is all around, but in combination the cover
360). Under 40' a single all-around light can be used instead of the two.
The USCG regs don't say where the all around light is suppose to be, but
their picture has a single all-around light in the stern.

I also looked up the MN regulations and they explicity state that the white
all around light is in the stern as well as a picture of the all-around in
the stern.

Next time I'm close to a USCG station, I'm going to stop and ask. Or better
yet, stop by with my boat and have it inspected.

Thanks for the idea of making my own flash unit. I've seen flash units, but
they are orange.

<ear...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95iac2$vv2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[Ken Roberts]

>It might be worthwhile to query various manufacturers of "turn-key"
>recreational craft about this. I THINK most of them right now are taking a
>wait-and-see attitude as to whether the flashing light requirement will be
>enforced (for small craft). Certainly, the local Coast Gurad around here will
>"certify" recreational hovercrafts without the flashing light...whether this
>is just ignorance on their part or not, I don't know. Anyway, I only know of
>one craft with flashers on the Chain O'Lakes, and it isn't mine. (and my
>craft is certified)

is it possible they're grandfathering in all the crafts made before the
requirement?

[Juergen]

In article <t7ol0kd...@corp.supernews.com>,
"Dave Schneider" <schn...@isd.net> wrote:

--
Wal-Mart sells a 120fpm light at $17 ...

Juergen

Member of The Hovercraft Cruising Club, a free web-based club.
http://thcc.freewebsites.com (US-Server)
http://users.yoobay.de/thcc/ (EU-server)

Juergen's Hovercraft Homepage: http://kjs.freewebsites.com

[ear...@my-deja.com]

In article <t7pmh2j...@corp.supernews.com>,
"Dave Schneider" <schn...@isd.net> wrote:

> I'm not sure about your interpretation of the placement of the all
around

Dave:

I'm not interpreting anything in the USCG requirements. Besides having a
copy of the regs, I have a picture from the reg book of the lighting
configuration.

[Ken Roberts]

>: is it possible they're grandfathering in all the crafts made before the
>: requirement?
>
>I doubt it. Just like seat belt equipment laws, most "safety" equipment
>described by government is a mandated upgrade. My recollection is that some
>States wanted (and perhaps still do) flags on snowmobiles...you could get the
>law changed (as some snowmobile organizations did) but until then, you had to
>comply if you didn't want to risk getting stopped for a ticket. This was
>regardless of the age of the snowmobile.

hm, i was thinking of seatbelts as an instance where they were grandfathered
in. you say they're not, which means to me that there are different laws for
different states. all i know of is about a decade ago with collecter cars, you
could have them with no seatbelts in south dakota. i'm not sure if it applied
to any older car, or if they had to have collector plates, or if there was an
age limit, or what. nor do i know if the law still applies there.

[Dave Schneider]

Is the PDF file mentioned in an earlier post, the actual regs? If so,
please direct me to the page number that states where the all-around light
should be. If the PDF file is not the "real" document, is there somewhere I
can get it on-line?

Thanks. No disrespect intended. I just want to get it right.

Dave

<ear...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95lh78$3te$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[Dave Schneider]

Thanks. $17 sounds like a deal. I'll check it out next time I"m there.
Hopefully it's yellow and not orange.

Juergen <kjue...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:95lb5g$vr7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[Juergen]

The document is a short form of teh full regulations. Go to Rule 23,
page 56 and you will find what you are looking for. In addition you can
go to the regulations for crafts >12m which will tell you that the
masthead light can be replaced with the all around anchor light (only
for those crafts!).

Juergen

Member of The Hovercraft Cruising Club, a free web-based club.
http://thcc.freewebsites.com (US-Server)
http://users.yoobay.de/thcc/ (EU-server)

Juergen's Hovercraft Homepage: http://kjs.freewebsites.com

In article <t7ugopi...@corp.supernews.com>,

[Dave Schneider]

Thanks Juergen, but I still give up! I guess I need the unabridged version,
because I still don't see where it says to place the all-around light. All
I see is that the all-around light can be off-center from the fore/aft
centerline if needed (21a, 23c). There is also talk that a single mast head
light or fore masthead light shall be "forward" (23a i). However, a mast
head light and all-around light have different definitions, yet they are
sometimes used in the same sentence. This is the reason for my confusion.
I still say the all-around light goes in the stern. Look at the example of
a < 12 meter boat on page 49.

Now, if you go with the masthead light and stern light combination, yes, the
forward masthead light must be "forward".

I think the only way to resolve this is to talk to the man himself.

Juergen <kjue...@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:95nkbg$vt2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[Juergen]

The full text says:" on the highest point aft"....

Juergen

In article <t7upqk6...@corp.supernews.com>,

--
Juergen

Member of The Hovercraft Cruising Club, a free web-based club.
http://thcc.freewebsites.com (US-Server)
http://users.yoobay.de/thcc/ (EU-server)

Juergen's Hovercraft Homepage: http://kjs.freewebsites.com

[Ken Roberts]

this is for a model, right? there are no pictures of this craft? i remember
the company is being less than helpful.