why jungle is going to eat itself
Jeff McLaughlin
: I understand what you mean. Jungle isn't all that and I see it
: going out soon. I like reggae and dancehall but this is a bit much.
: Sometimes I think it gets ridicoulous. Especially that gangsta rap
: shit. Lot of that shit promotes violence and I'm sick of it here in the U.S.
: I see it becoming another techno fad that will come in and out every so
: often like house, acid, trance, etc..
I have kept up with this group off and on for a while now, and have yet to
see much intelligent discussion of jungle or drum & bass. I have seen
post after post written by people saying "this is jungle, this isnt etc etc"
and I have the suspicion that a lot of what is said is based on what you
people are reading in Details magazine. From 92 until last summer, jungle
was branded as too fast, too stupid, and basically worthless. Then
the "sound of summer 94" started to take off and everyone wants a piece of
the pie (including the doomsayers). I have news for you: during the past
two years the UK jungle scene has survived without the support of the
mainstream US rave scene and will continue to do so when the bandwagon
jumpers go back to listening to house music. My advice to Ryan is to
quit whining, buy yourself a walkman (theyre getting quite cheap really) and
start digging a little deeper than the cd compilations at Tower Records.
There is still a vast amount of creativity in this music, and its not
a techno fad thats going to disappear soon. Sorry its not convenient
for some of you to find good jungle tunes, but if you really are in it for
the music then this isnt a problem. As for the above post, I'm sure you
know all about whats "in" and "out" but frankly the junglists don't care.
We were playing it before when everyone was saying it sucked, and we'll
still be playing it when you say it sucks again. Jungle is not one
style of music...its many styles...jungle unites soul, reggae, dancehall,
hip hop, even trance and ambient. There is so much more to jungle than
booyaka bizness. Maybe you should look into it a little deeper before
you go off pronouncing it soon-to-be-dead.
nuff said
Jeff
: gsi...@gsaix2.cc.GaSoU.EDU wrote:
: : "i can understand why people, for example the techno fraternity, hate jungle.
: : for every good jungle record there are 10 crap ones." - dego of 4 hero
: : if people are offended by this, i don't really care, but i've got to
: : speak my mind.
: : jungle is turning to shit. let's spin back to '92. happy hardcore is
: : the big thing. trashy, disposable anthems. everyone sampled each other.
: : creativity was draining out of the sink.
: : boom.
: : the dance media proclaims hardcore dead. trance and house and other such
: : forms of dance music are the hip things. hardcore goes underground.
: : this is '93. the jokers who sat behind their amigas with a cheap
: : sampler and a handful of this week's records are gone.
: : the direction of the music? deeper. much deeper. serious records are
: : put forth. 'vertigo', 'window in the sky', 'underworld'...moving shadow
: : and suburban base release records of supreme quality.
: : i got tired of happy hardcore in early '93. then i heard 'the joint lp'...
: : i woke up fast. there was music being produced that made the so called
: : 'intelligent dance music' of the time look completely pathetic.
: : aphex twin? f.u.s.e.? no. metalheads. nookie. yes.
: : early '94...and the cuts are still deep. 'warpdrive', 'thru the vibe',
: : 'the rumble'...and then something happens...i don't care about 'the
: : sound of the summer' bullshit or how big jungle has gotten in
: : london. i don't live there, i don't care if levy is on top of the pops
: : or not. i don't care if zit faced 13 year old kids like jungle or not.
: : what i do care about is the music.
: : and the music?
: : it turned to shit.
: : what happened?
: : people want to say it's the major labels faults, but it's not all their
: : fault. in fact, some artists on major labels are producing good music.
: : some have gone up their own assehole with their 'artistic' garbage.
: : either way, major labels are trying to scoop up jungle acts like
: : bums snatch up coke cans off the side of the road for a quick trip to the
: : recycling center for a bit of cash. but they haven't managed to do much
: : at all. sign a few acts like goldie, crystl...
: : no, you can't blame the majors. sorry.
: : can you blame levy? the man who took jungle to the top of the pops was on
: : an indie label the whole time while doing it. true, he acted like a fool
: : saying he big upped jungle and all that nonsense, but no one takes him
: : seriously anyway.
: : blame levy if you want, but he ain't the problem.
: : so what is the problem?
: : jungle is disposable. jungle follows the hardcore tradition. make a big
: : anthem, play it out and move on. oh, sure, now they rewind a record
: : 1, 2, sometimes 3 times...big deal. that only helps kill a record
: : even faster.
: : everyone wants to make a slammin' dub plate and get it pressed and get
: : their 5 seconds of fame. they craft a completely worthless record
: : by pasting a few well played out drum samples together and toss on
: : some samples from a reggae record they picked up at a used record store.
: : how many tracks do you hear nowadays that have the 'amen' break? even
: : krome & time, once perhaps the greatest duo in hardcore, have been sucked
: : into 'amen' break crap. how many times do you fucking idiots have to use
: : the same damn drum loop before you get bored of it?
: : and it isn't just the 'amen' break either. there is one that samples an
: : old chubb rock tune (ya bad chubbs), one used in 'the rumble' that seems
: : to pop up everywhere and more. it's so fucking annoying. it makes me
: : so damn sick. for god's sake, get some originality!
: : what makes all this crap even worse is that there is no more music to it!
: : no synths, no forming of a tune. just cut up drums and bass and perhaps
: : a few chants that the dork making the record sampled. oh a few sounds
: : here and there. what is the point? if people were crafted new and
: : inventive beats i would love it, but hearing the same damn breakbeats
: : layered over and over again with no musical direction is worthless!
: : as a mere punter, i feel so fucking cheated. i can't afford to get the
: : latest 12"s and 10"s from england and so i must settle for cd compilations
: : from england. the pickings are so slim...
: : but there are artists who produce good music. 4 hero's 'parallel universe'
: : shines thru the jungle bollocks. no regurgitated beats here. reinforced
: : records stand tall producing good jungle that goes beyond the rest of the
: : hardcore morass. and omni trio too.
: : i read reviews from top dj's and find what they praise. i don't get it.
: : why does someone like dj dextrous get his records rated 15/10 when his
: : record sounds just like the last one he did or any other record for that
: : matter!
: : jungle is a dj game. you have to buy records, you have to know people,
: : etc. an ordinary punter can't pull down good jungle. compilations are
: : just crap nowadays. i know some people just thrive on that fact though,
: : bragging about the records they have or their test presses or their dub
: : plates or whatever. they just have to be bad little junglists and front
: : their attitudes not only thru the music but thru everything they do.
: : jungle is also being killed by fake ass attitudes, and i won't name
: : any names.
: : the whole thing is a joke.
: : the fools will kill the whole thing just to look cool, whether it is from
: : producing cheap disposable 10"s or to bringing in that damn hip hop
: : badder than thou attitude.
: : and the people who just want to enjoy the music are the bandwagon
: : jumpers and the fools.
: : yeah, fuck you too.
mcsd...@zippy.dct.ac.uk
> ALl I GOTTA SAY IS A BIG FUK YOU.
Hmm, Standard Joe reply.
> If you don't like jungle don't listen to it. If all you get is stuff on
> compilations I can see why you have such a bad attitude about jungle.
> You know what. If jungle dies out what will we have....hmmm House? Tekno?
> great we can go back to being pounded beat and pummeled into the
> submission of the 4 on the floor beat.
Hmm, I did a jungle choon for my album (Comes out March-Uk only)
Now, jungle is pretty sparse, just a few chords (have to be soothing
well, I did an ambient jungle track), a few breaks, and a "little bit
of bass!". Now, I have to admit, that after doing the song,
I loved it. Not because it was my own, but it was so soothing, but
yet so danceable, it had an emotion of it's own.
(BTW Joe, breaks take AGES to perfect)
Now, I admit: Most people are into Jungle (like House) Not because
of the Music, but because of the fact that it's a _trendies_ thing
to do. But some people just like the music. I like the music, well,
some of it. I mean Hyper-On never did anything for me, and the
jungle stuff with a ragga voice over the top makes me wanna puke.
I'd say that one of the better choons of last year was Goldie and
the MetalHeads - 'Inner City'. That was superb.
Well, That's my own opinion. I'm currently trying to get a WWW page
set up. So, if someone in the UK buys my CD, and copies it to disk,
I could FTP it, and use it :) I am f**ked btw. See ya :)
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(c)95/_/ optical....@zippy.dct.ac.uk / a.r...@zippy.dct.ac.uk....lsd
Michael Dagn
> If you don't like jungle don't listen to it. If all you get is stuff on
> compilations I can see why you have such a bad attitude about jungle.
I think the person that posted the original message actually
*LIKES* jungle...
The impression that I got of his post was that he hates the
commercialised crappy (happy-hardcore) stuff that gets played so
much everywhere.
... and that "I'm badder, meaner, tougher" attitude...
I must say i agree with him on that.
> You know what. If jungle dies out what will we have....hmmm House? Tekno?
> great we can go back to being pounded beat and pummeled into the
> submission of the 4 on the floor beat.
I think it is perfectly permissible to like the best of all these styles.
In fact I would like to see more DJs playing more varied sets
using interesting stuff from all these styles to create a friendly
vibe rather than what most DJs seem to do around here..
(they seem to play one flavour of one style through their entire set
to make the vibe that of a "scene" and make it so unfriendly and paranoid)
---MJD.
aaron stigberg
I lie not.
There are hundreds of good jungle records I will never hear, so I'm happy.
Jungle is alive, kicking, and will not die for a while.
You're either very picky, stupid, or hear much much more music than I.
--
Later on,
Aaron
aaron stigberg
And you trackmaster are what my friends call a "JIVE ASS SUCKER".
Shut the hell up and play around with your 303.
--
Later on,
Aaron
Joe LeSesne
> rave...@telerama.lm.com (Joe LeSesne) writes:
> > ALl I GOTTA SAY IS A BIG FUK YOU.
> Hmm, Standard Joe reply.
You know it boyeee!
> > If you don't like jungle don't listen to it. If all you get is stuff on
> > compilations I can see why you have such a bad attitude about jungle.
> > You know what. If jungle dies out what will we have....hmmm House? Tekno?
> > great we can go back to being pounded beat and pummeled into the
> > submission of the 4 on the floor beat.
> Hmm, I did a jungle choon for my album (Comes out March-Uk only)
And do look for my "Beautiful Drum And Bass" remix of Blondie's Atomic
out on EMI in stores by the 31st domestically and in the UK <I
think> part of a DJ tripple pack.
> Now, jungle is pretty sparse, just a few chords (have to be soothing
> well, I did an ambient jungle track), a few breaks, and a "little bit
> of bass!". Now, I have to admit, that after doing the song,
> I loved it. Not because it was my own, but it was so soothing, but
> yet so danceable, it had an emotion of it's own.
>
> (BTW Joe, breaks take AGES to perfect)
I told ya!
> I'd say that one of the better choons of last year was Goldie and
> the MetalHeads - 'Inner City'. That was superb.
AGREED! If you like this then another brill tune along similar lines is
Angel Eyes (I think thats the name) by 4 Hero (it's on the 4 Hero album).
> Well, That's my own opinion. I'm currently trying to get a WWW page
> set up. So, if someone in the UK buys my CD, and copies it to disk,
> I could FTP it, and use it :) I am f**ked btw. See ya :)
Good for ya, hey mate, I might be visiting the UK this summer. Perhaps we
can hookup and duke it out! ;)
Joe
"And now we return to our bandwidth wasting silly .sigs..."
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--
Jeff McLaughlin
: > the pie (including the doomsayers). I have news for you: during the past
: > two years the UK jungle scene has survived without the support of the
: > mainstream US rave scene and will continue to do so when the bandwagon
: > jumpers go back to listening to house music. Jeff
: >
: >
: I don't know where you have been, Jungle and the premise for jungle
: have been around longer than 2 years, "Let me be your fantasy" was
: released on the underground about 2 years ago and it was definatly not
: the first Jungle tune. Although not being real jungle this tune has the
: premise and attitude of the scene. Jungle has been around longer than
: the "New Fad" Junglists think. I agree it is good people listening to
: jungle, it is good that it gains popularity, although I thiink that it
: will again retire to the underground again (Where it belongs) soon. As
: for TELSTAR jungle compilations, cheesy, bullshit etc etc....
My point was not that jungle had only been around for two years (yes,
I know its been around longer in various permutations). My point was
that the scene flourished in the underground after mainstream dance
culture pronounced hardcore was dead. The infrastructure that grew
and supported jungle during the media blackout still exists, and will
still be there to support it when the hype dies. Actually,
when the hype dies is probably when we will see another leap forward
as what happened after Charley and Sesame's Treet etc.
BTW: Anyone who thinks jungle is going nowhere should check out
Blame & Justice Chapter II remixes on big time Moving Shadow...
the D'cruze remix of NightVision is fucking mind blowing.
Peace,
Jeff
Joe LeSesne
> --
> Later on,
> Aaron
My god, what have I created?!?!
Joe
--