Re: Nas Threatens 50 over Lopez Track
Pizon
>the one living in a fantasy world if he thinks he defeated Jay-Z in
>that battle.
?
Get at me,
Pizon
http://www.pizonishiphop.com
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Go jerk off at some more wrestling u faggot wack ass stan.
Pizon
>that doesn't mean shit in the real world.
It has nothing to do with a radio poll.
It has to do with the fact that Nas murdered Jay with "H to the OMO" and
"Ether." "Takeover" had just one mediocre verse aimed at Nas, and you
acknowledge that "Super Ugly" was trash. Nas wasn't the only one who verbally
dismissed it: Jay retracted it as well, citing a "low blow" but really just
realizing how laughable a track it was.
Jay's ego was hurt so much by that battle that he no longer wants to make
albums.
The general concensus everywhere I've been in the real world is that Nas
destroyed Jay. A few weirdos on the Internet are the only heads who seem to
think otherwise.
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"Pizon" <rocks...@aol.commonsense> wrote in message
news:20041218214359...@mb-m21.aol.com...
> >Also Nas is
> >the one living in a fantasy world if he thinks he defeated Jay-Z in
> >that battle.
>
> ?
I have been tellin all of you that Jay-Z and Nas are living in a fantasy
world. Each one thinks he is the king. Each one thinks he is more
important than he really is.
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"Pizon" <rocks...@aol.commonsense> wrote in message
news:20041219010014...@mb-m21.aol.com...
Both of their shit was corny and that battle was fake anyway.
Pizon
>important than he really is.
True.
Lana
<Jasper...@themaddhouse.com> wrote in message
>> Editorial Comment: Nas is on a serious superiority trip. Also Nas is the
one living in a fantasy world if he thinks he defeated Jay-Z in that battle.
I agree. Also, on his last single he sings: "The best in the world", for
himself. Someone should tell that man on ego-trip to relax.
"Guest"
<Jasper...@themaddhouse.com> wrote in message
news:gg7bs0dre6md3ioe2...@4ax.com...
> >I agree. Also, on his last single he sings: "The best in the world", for
> >himself. Someone should tell that man on ego-trip to relax.
>
> haha ... The best in the world, yeah right. I dunno when his ego-trip
> started, but it seems like it happened right after he was placed on
> the cross in the Hate Me Now video. But then we must remember that
> Nas IS Jesus *err* God's Son. . .so his ascension to greatness was
> predetermined by the scriptures ;]
>
> You know, LL got on a similar GOAT trip. But I don't think LL really
> believed his own hype.
>
> J.
But LL is the only one who can actually claim that. Look at his resume.
Look as Nas' resume. He basically has a series of one hit per album and his
career hangs on one song. Jay-Z hardly made real hip-hop. When that Sean
Carter album basically flopped, he went right back to pop songs. Not to
mention he never changed his style and always talk about him being the best.
He can sell, but so did Hammer.
Pizon
>>himself. Someone should tell that man on ego-trip to relax.
>
>haha ... The best in the world, yeah right.
Best in the world, as in best MC in the world? I'd agree with that. I think
he claims he's the "greatest man alive" on his single, though. That's a bit of
a stretch.
Lana
""Guest"" <n0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> Look as Nas' resume. He basically has a series of one hit per album and
his career hangs on one song.
I beg to differ. Nas has many songs that were hits. also many that are
brilliant, but he ain't ALL that like he claims. I don't seek for modesty,
only realism.
>>Jay-Z hardly made real hip-hop.
I tend to strongly disagree. Again. Similarly what I think of Nas, I ain't a
fan, but Jay-Z made real hip-hop.
>> He can sell, but so did Hammer.
Hammer was cool back in the day.
Damn, how we shaked on our school parties...
I'd just like to add that I see people "preoccupying" what's "real hip-hop"
and what's not. There's no "real hip-hop". There's only hip-hop. Who's gonna
judge what's real? C'mon...
$trategy Incarnate
Look as Nas' resume. He basically has a series of one hit per album and
his
career hangs on one song."
I kinda agre with the first part, but not the 2nd
I wouldn't even know what one song made his career or what song you
would even be thinking about..
I would say the common listener didn't even hear of him beofre "If I
Ruled.." but of course Illmatic is thought of as his most critical work
He's no LL, that's for sure, hell Jay-z ain't either, not even Tupac
LL is the all-time king of rap, and he's not even my personal favorite,
it's just fact
STRATEGY
Lana
"Pizon" <rocks...@aol.commonsense> wrote in
> Best in the world, as in best MC in the world? I'd agree with that.
I wouldn't.
>>I think he claims he's the "greatest man alive" on his single, though.
That's a bit of a stretch.
Yes, that's what I meant.
It's not only a bit stretched, but a blasphemy.
Alan Dickson
"$trategy Incarnate" <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103480106.6...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I am a massive LL fan, but I wouldn't say that he is a the king of rap.
The only problem is, is that i don't know who is.
I just believe that LL has a far superior catalogue to both Nas and Jay Z.
Nas has Illmatic. A classic. One of, if not the greatest hip hop album of
all time.
LL has "Mama said", "Radio", "Bigger and Deffer". He also has a couple of
other strong albums.
Jay Z only has "Reasonable Doubt" in my oppinion.
I don't know how you can really compare them though. Jay Z made the most
money. LL has the better individual tracks. Nas is seen as probably the
best mc. I can't really compare them one against one.
I just know that my preference, in order, is:
1 - LL
2 - Nas
3 - Jay Z
Laters,
alan d aka big al
"Guest"
"Lana" <lhe...@vip.hr> wrote in message news:cq4egr$ap1$1...@bagan.srce.hr...
There is 'real' hip-hop. Stuff like Jay-Z is only for the sales. I don't
even want to speak on Outkast. Why do you think these so-called artists are
always talking about back in the day? It's because they know they are
trying to get 100 million dollars. As long as that is the case, real
hip-hop is lost. People seem to be stuck in the middle of real and pop
right now. We may never hear and real hip-hop again.
Jay-Z had some songs that were real, but his was mostly a pop music catalog.
Real hip-hop is when you make strong beats that serve the streets. Say and
write rhymes that are about what people love in the streets. It DOES NOT
have to mean talking about drugs, guns and murder. That does not make
someone hard-core or real. That is why you think Jay-Z was real because he
would always through that in there to think he is about the streets.
"Guest"
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"$trategy Incarnate" <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103480106.6...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> " Look at his resume.
> Look as Nas' resume. He basically has a series of one hit per album and
> his
> career hangs on one song."
I apologize. I meant that his career hangs on one song PER ALBUM, as
opposed to making solid albums.
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"Alan Dickson" <al...@adickson.co.ukNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:Rvlxd.537$vm2...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
The king is not Nas or Jay-Z. How come people seem to want to hate on LL?
Who else can seriously call themselves the king and mean it?
Wasteland Drifter
>>
>> The king is not Nas or Jay-Z. How come people seem to want to hate
>> on LL? Who else can seriously call themselves the king and mean it?
KRS ONE, Rakim, Kool G Rap, Masta Ace, Big Daddy Kane to name a few... all
as, if not more, significant than LL... (That's not to say LL doesn't
deserve respect but he's not the 'King'...)
Alan Dickson
"Wasteland Drifter" <wastelan...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:110349939...@spandrell.news.uk.clara.net...
Wouldn't most say Biggie??
I just don't think that anyone is the king. A few years ago, everyone was
saying that it was Rakim (like how Nas is the new Rakim). Not sure any
more.
LL is one of the greatest of all time, but not "the" greatest. Though he is
still my personal fave.
laters,
suntzu
> ILLMATIC - (3 out of 10)- it ain't hard to tell, ny state of mind,
> world is yours + life's a bitch, so make it 4 out of 10.
everything on that album is classic.
>
> I AM (6 out of 16) - ny state of mind II, kissing, dr. knockboots,
> favor for a favor, hate me now, nas is like
>
> STREETS DISCIPLE - (2 out of 25) - live now, virgo (only because Doug
> E. Fresh is beat boxin).
letter to the feds, our heroes, suicide bounce, bridging the gap,
thief's theme
>
> GOD'S SON - (3 out of 14) - made you look PLUS the ultra sappy hit "i
> can" and the hearse rydin "thugz mansion"
"get down" is fuckin dope.
>
> IT WAS WRITTEN - (3 out of 14) - street dreams, if i ruled the world,
> affirmative action
take it in blood, suspect, shootouts
>
> NASTRADAMUS - (1 out of 15) - some of us have angels
"come get up" is the only track i really like on that album.
>
> STILLMATIC (4 out of 14) - ether, got yourself a gun, one mic, rewind
ur da man, 2nd childhood, the flyest
>
> And even though I'm sure other peeps will add a few tracks here and
> there, it will still be hard to achieve a 50% rating on any album
> except Illmatic & Stillmatic.
i only added tracks that were really good. illmatic is one of the few
albums i'd consider "perfect", and there's nothing that deserves
skipping on it. it was written has a couple i skip, but is really solid
overall. i am has a few highlights, but is spotty. nastradamus is the
worst by far. stillmatic is solid, for the most part. i actually don't
think i've heard all of god's son, but "get down" and "made you look"
are both excellent. the new one lags in parts, but has a few really
good tracks.
>
> For that matter, lets's go ahead and say that each album has 3
> additional decent tracks that I didn't list! Then exclude Illmatic &
> Stillmatic and what do you have? One album "I AM" breaks the 50%
> threshold with 9 decent tracks out of 16. The rest get a big F.
>
> J.
Sparky Arbuckle
if you think that Jay-Z is hip-hop.
suntzu
>
> There is 'real' hip-hop. Stuff like Jay-Z is only for the sales. I don't
> even want to speak on Outkast.
jesus christ, are you fuckin kidding me? jay-z and outkast aren't
hip-hop? ok, you might not like them (and jay has definitely turned out
as much bullshit as he has clasic material), but to say neither's
hip-hop is fuckin delusional. i think ja rule sucks, but i have no
illusions about him not being hip-hop. hip-hop's a big full-grown genre
now. that means it has subgenres, pop acts, people who are really good
and still manage to move units (*cough* outkast *cough*), etc, etc.
hip-hop doesn't mean "hip-hop that you personally like". the genre's
grown enough that no one will like all of it anymore. there will also
be things in the genre that push the boundries of the genre to the point
where it's debatable whether it's still in the genre. jay and kast
aren't anywhere near that border, and outkast can be pretty experimental
with their sound at times. there's nothing wrong with that.
> Why do you think these so-called artists are
> always talking about back in the day? It's because they know they are
> trying to get 100 million dollars. As long as that is the case, real
> hip-hop is lost.
rapping for money instead of for the love of it irritates me as much as
it does the next cranky hip-hop head, but moving units and making money
does *not* necessarily equate to selling out, even if there's often a
lot of overlap.
> People seem to be stuck in the middle of real and pop
> right now. We may never hear and real hip-hop again.
>
> Jay-Z had some songs that were real, but his was mostly a pop music catalog.
are we talking real as in "keepin it real" or real as in "genuinely
classifiable as hip-hop"? if it's the first, ok, argue that if you
want; if it's the second, it seems obvious to me that jay is definitely
hip-hop, pop or not. you can be pop and hip-hop, just like you can be
pop and rock or pop and electronic. pop as a classification encompasses
multiple genres.
> Real hip-hop is when you make strong beats that serve the streets. Say and
> write rhymes that are about what people love in the streets. It DOES NOT
> have to mean talking about drugs, guns and murder. That does not make
> someone hard-core or real. That is why you think Jay-Z was real because he
> would always through that in there to think he is about the streets.
>
>
define "the streets". and how does a beat serve the streets? don't you
think that the people in the "streets" are diverse enough in taste and
interest that there's no one set of lyrics or beats that can serve them?
and seriously, how much outkast have you listened to? and how can you
say they don't do strong beats and write lyrics that often hit issues
that are important to "the streets" (here i'm gonna assume "everyday
people" as a vague definition of "the streets")?
suntzu
>>There's only hip-hop.
>
>
> If one views hip-hop from a non-purist perspective then Lana is
> correct – there is no difference as it's all part of the same genre.
>
> J.
it's not a matter of non-purist. it's a matter of the genre growing to
encompass a wide variety of styles. i'm sure there are things that are
considered "more pure" in other genres (e.g. the resurgence of rock
bands with a more stripped down sound), but that doesn't make other
things in those genres less a part of the genre.
wu-tang is hip-hop. ja rule is hip-hop. wu may be what most fans
consider more "pure" or "true", and i definitely really like wu (and
can't stand ja), but both are hip-hop, end of story.
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"suntzu" <suntzu.h...@freeshell.org> wrote in message
news:cq5fp8$sjf$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
> "Guest" wrote:
>
> >
> > There is 'real' hip-hop. Stuff like Jay-Z is only for the sales. I
don't
> > even want to speak on Outkast.
>
> jesus christ, are you fuckin kidding me? jay-z and outkast aren't
> hip-hop? ok, you might not like them (and jay has definitely turned out
> as much bullshit as he has clasic material), but to say neither's
> hip-hop is fuckin delusional. i think ja rule sucks, but i have no
> illusions about him not being hip-hop. hip-hop's a big full-grown genre
> now. that means it has subgenres, pop acts, people who are really good
> and still manage to move units (*cough* outkast *cough*), etc, etc.
> hip-hop doesn't mean "hip-hop that you personally like". the genre's
> grown enough that no one will like all of it anymore. there will also
> be things in the genre that push the boundries of the genre to the point
> where it's debatable whether it's still in the genre. jay and kast
> aren't anywhere near that border, and outkast can be pretty experimental
> with their sound at times. there's nothing wrong with that.
That is how others want to redefine it....
>
> > Why do you think these so-called artists are
> > always talking about back in the day? It's because they know they are
> > trying to get 100 million dollars. As long as that is the case, real
> > hip-hop is lost.
>
> rapping for money instead of for the love of it irritates me as much as
> it does the next cranky hip-hop head, but moving units and making money
> does *not* necessarily equate to selling out, even if there's often a
> lot of overlap.
Why do you think it is called 'selling' out?
>
> > People seem to be stuck in the middle of real and pop
> > right now. We may never hear and real hip-hop again.
> >
> > Jay-Z had some songs that were real, but his was mostly a pop music
catalog.
>
> are we talking real as in "keepin it real" or real as in "genuinely
> classifiable as hip-hop"? if it's the first, ok, argue that if you
> want; if it's the second, it seems obvious to me that jay is definitely
> hip-hop, pop or not. you can be pop and hip-hop, just like you can be
> pop and rock or pop and electronic. pop as a classification encompasses
> multiple genres.
I am talking authentic hip-hop. Nelly is harder than Jay-Z.
>
> > Real hip-hop is when you make strong beats that serve the streets. Say
and
> > write rhymes that are about what people love in the streets. It DOES
NOT
> > have to mean talking about drugs, guns and murder. That does not make
> > someone hard-core or real. That is why you think Jay-Z was real because
he
> > would always through that in there to think he is about the streets.
> >
> >
>
> define "the streets". and how does a beat serve the streets? don't you
> think that the people in the "streets" are diverse enough in taste and
> interest that there's no one set of lyrics or beats that can serve them?
The streets are the black ghettos who dictate who is hot and who is not.
Without the streets, there is no hip-hop as they do not have to serve or try
to keep a certain audinece. Black Eyed Peas gets no love on the streets...
Yeah, the streets love those mix CD's, but they are the basis of the music.
They are what dictate if an artist is taking it too far and moving away from
them in order to get paid.
>
> and seriously, how much outkast have you listened to? and how can you
> say they don't do strong beats and write lyrics that often hit issues
> that are important to "the streets" (here i'm gonna assume "everyday
> people" as a vague definition of "the streets")?
OutKast, that name once had meaning. Now it means foolishness. Techno
beats? Hip-hop? Neither MC can really do their thing alone. It is all
about songs with them. MCing does not exsist with them.
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<Jasper...@themaddhouse.com> wrote in message
news:2blcs0d0a6haevqjm...@4ax.com...
> >it's not a matter of non-purist.
>
> sure it is.
>
> >i'm sure there are things that are considered "more pure" in other
> >genres (e.g. the resurgence of rock bands with a more stripped down
sound),
> >but that doesn't make other things in those genres less a part of the
genre.
>
> It doesn't apply to most other genres because they actually created
> sub-genres to encompass the different interpolations. For example,
> originally there was only one genre known as "Rock." However, over
> the years, Rock was eventually subdivided into Adult Rock, Classic
> Rock, Folk Rock, Acid Rock, etc.
>
> The genre of Hip-Hop never received that type of concrete subdivision.
>
> That's why in Hip-Hop, purist generally classify non-pop
> non-commercial hip-hop as "real." And since what is "real" is often
> based on the experience, knowledge, and sometimes even taste of the
> listener, then by default that makes determining what's real very
> subjective - and always controversial.
>
> J.
The source audience is what determines if it's real. If not, then it does
not matter. Real is how they(rappers) originally put forth hip-hop and
maintained it in it's pure form. Pop so-called hip-hop does not make you
hip or hop.
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"Wasteland Drifter" <wastelan...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:110349939...@spandrell.news.uk.clara.net...
Masta Ace? There is a reason he went first on the Symphony. All of the
others are in my top five GOATS, but they are really over. LL has
maintained and has still had success. This guys has been around before any
rapper out, including Slick Rick and has outlasted rappers who had 10+ year
careers and he is still here and making classics. Come on man!
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"Alan Dickson" <al...@adickson.co.ukNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:Iloxd.810$j82...@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
I agree that LL is not THE greatest. That is reserved for Big Daddy Kane
and maybe a tie with Rakim. LL is the king though. Even Star and Buc Wild
like to keep making sure people understand that.
MF
> careers and he is still here and making classics. Come on man!
Could you identify these modern day classics from LL?
MF
mattmatical
"Masta Ace? There is a reason he went first on the Symphony."
You're gonna hold the fact against him that he was once
a debuting rapper and had to stand in line behind three
more slightly more experienced rhymers?
Is that your argument while you disregard his (quite
substantial) post-"Symphony" output?
Matt
"I love what sucks about rap music" (Azeem)
suntzu
> audience) makes that determination.
>
>>Real is how they(rappers) originally put forth hip-hop and
>>maintained it in it's pure form.
>
>
> would Eminem ever say his shit *isn't* real hip-hop? No. To Em, his
> shit is real. However, a purist listener would say that Em's material
> is nothing more than fake commercial garbage.
>
> J.
i think he's implying that the demographics of the audience are what
determines whether it's real, not the opinions of all the listeners.
suntzu
>
>
>>i'm sure there are things that are considered "more pure" in other
>>genres (e.g. the resurgence of rock bands with a more stripped down sound),
>>but that doesn't make other things in those genres less a part of the genre.
>
>
> sub-genres to encompass the different interpolations. For example,
> originally there was only one genre known as "Rock." However, over
> the years, Rock was eventually subdivided into Adult Rock, Classic
> Rock, Folk Rock, Acid Rock, etc.
there's no central genre creating board that hands these things down.
it just happens as the genre naturally diversifies...
>
> The genre of Hip-Hop never received that type of concrete subdivision.
...and hip-hop's younger than a lot of other genres, so it's just
getting to the point where it really needs subgenres.
>
> That's why in Hip-Hop, purist generally classify non-pop
> non-commercial hip-hop as "real." And since what is "real" is often
> based on the experience, knowledge, and sometimes even taste of the
> listener, then by default that makes determining what's real very
> subjective - and always controversial.
yeah, agreed.
>
> J.
suntzu
"That is how others want to redefine it..."
what? i didn't really define it. i just gave an argument as to why
your definition is too narrow. what you're describing, for better or
worse, is now a subgenre of hip-hop, even if it is the original sound.
but genres, for better or worse, grow and change, and it doesn't make
sense to keep genre definitions that narrow.
"Why do you think it is called 'selling' out?"
this still doesn't address the fact that moving units doesn't
necessarily imply selling out. selling out is all about changing your
sound just to move units. jay is arguably guilty of this in some cases,
but i think he still has plenty of stuff that's an honest version of
what he wants to make. i think outkast just got popular, but i really
don't think they've ever changed their sound specifically to increase
sales. people just happen to recognize the talent, even if the
mainstream caught on late.
"I am talking authentic hip-hop."
ok, well, in that case, like i said, pop and hip-hop are no longer
mutually exclusive. i'm often not happy about this, but that's the way
it is. sorry.
"Nelly is harder than Jay-Z."
ok... i don't think either one's all that hard. nelly's more
consistently pop, for whatever that's worth. jay's got a shitload more
talent.
"The streets are the black ghettos who dictate who is hot and who is
not. Without the streets, there is no hip-hop as they do not have to
serve or try to keep a certain audinece. Black Eyed Peas gets no love
on the streets... Yeah, the streets love those mix CD's, but they are
the basis of the music. They are what dictate if an artist is taking it
too far and moving away from them in order to get paid."
so then it's only hip-hop if the black ghetto dictates that it's hot?
what percentage of the black ghetto has to ratify something's hotness to
legitimize it? because i'm pretty sure everyone there isn't gonna
agree. they are, you know, individuals with differing opinions. so i'm
just looking for a percentage so we can do surveys and figure out once
and for all what's really hip-hop and what isn't. also, i'm black, but
i don't live in the ghetto. if i were to move there, would i suddenly
be on the official hip-hop certification board? btw, are you part of
the black ghetto? if not, by your own reasoning, you have no authority
on any of this.
"OutKast, that name once had meaning. Now it means foolishness. Techno
beats? Hip-hop? Neither MC can really do their thing alone. It is all
about songs with them. MCing does not exsist with them."
btw, now i understand your reply to my previous outkast post. i didn't
think you were implying that they're straight up not hip-hop because i
thought that was a pretty ridiculous position to hold. but i guess that
was the idea. eitherway, they're upcoming album ("the hard ten") should
make them hip-hop again by your definition.
so at what point did outkast lose their hip-hop status? and how does
having techno influenced beats make you not hip-hop? hip-hop's always
been about cobbling together influences from other genres. is
bambaataa's "searching for the perfect beat" not hip-hop? and yeah, i
agree that they work better together than solo (which is one reason i'm
looking forward to their upcoming stuff, though i did like
speakerboxxx/love below). but their decrease in quality as solo acts
doesn't make them not hip-hop all of a sudden.
your argument kind of reminds me of when some college freshman first
start listening to hip-hop, but they don't wanna be associated with what
they find objectionable, so they come up with ridiculous lines of
reasoning about how only "conscious" shit (or whatever it is they like)
is real hip-hop. that shit's retarded.
Wasteland Drifter
>>> KRS ONE, Rakim, Kool G Rap, Masta Ace, Big Daddy Kane to name a
>>> few... all as, if not more, significant than LL... (That's not to
>>> say LL doesn't deserve respect but he's not the 'King'...)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Masta Ace? There is a reason he went first on the Symphony. All of
>> the others are in my top five GOATS, but they are really over. LL
>> has maintained and has still had success. This guys has been around
>> before any rapper out, including Slick Rick and has outlasted
>> rappers who had 10+ year careers and he is still here and making
>> classics. Come on man!
Yes Masta Ace... He's a lot better than LL, 5 albums all of them dope as
fuck and over a long time scale... he may not be as productive as LL (i.e.
He doesn't release a shit album every couple of years.) Plus his non-album
12"s and guest apperances... His album this year could easily be album of
the year, LL's wouldn't even come in the top 100 of the year...
The last LL album I could listen to was "Mama Said"... the rest have had
singles but been poor as albums...
LL might be selling more than the others mentioned, but KRS is still more
important than him, 13 albums, a couple of dodgy ones but on the whole
they're all good or classics... Rakim is infinitely better than LL on the
mic, his weak output beats LL's, his classic output beats LL... Kool G Rap
is still as dope as he's ever been...
Where are these LL classics from recent years exactly?
The last 'classic' track I can think of from him is "Mama Said" and that's
over a decade old isn't it?
LL was the 'Prince of Rap' back in the day, he's never claimed the title of
'King' and with recent releases he's further from the title than ever.
LL's importance in the grand scheme of Hip-Hop history cannot be down played
and I'm not intending to do that but he's done nothing of real merit for
years and has only released medicore material most of it's not even good
commercial rap, just average (or worse.)
mochaspresso
"Doin it and doin it and doin it well...." = classic
People can argue whether the other recent hits he's had like
"Headsprung", "Hush", "Phenomenon , "Love You Better", "Paradise" etc
are classics. But imo, LL deserves his GOAT status because he is the
only artist from that golden hip-hop era who has consistantly remained
in the game on the major level and has consistantly been successful.
He's still on Def Jam, he's still putting out albums and he still has
hit songs. Yes, plenty like Rakim and Kane and Chuck D were all
better MC's than LL......but where are they now?
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
Wasteland Drifter
They are all still making music... because they don't have major label
support or the sales to match LL doesn't make them any less relevant than
LL... if sales = relevance and greatness then Eminem is the GOAT... and
quite clearly he's not...
---Pete---
>> ILLMATIC - (3 out of 10)- it ain't hard to tell, ny state of mind,
>> world is yours + life's a bitch, so make it 4 out of 10.
the genesis, halftime, memory lane, one love, one time 4 your mind,
represent...
>> I AM (6 out of 16) - ny state of mind II, kissing, dr. knockboots,
>> favor for a favor, hate me now, nas is like
we will survive, life is what you make it, i want to talk to you.
>> STREETS DISCIPLE - (2 out of 25) - live now, virgo (only because Doug
>> E. Fresh is beat boxin).
>
> letter to the feds, our heroes, suicide bounce, bridging the gap, thief's
> theme
nazareth savage, american way, disciple, sekou story, you know my style,
streets disciple, UBR, remember the times, the makings of a perfect bitch,
no one else in the room
>> GOD'S SON - (3 out of 14) - made you look PLUS the ultra sappy hit "i
>> can" and the hearse rydin "thugz mansion"
>
> "get down" is fuckin dope.
the cross, last real nigga alive, book of rhymes, warrior song, heaven
>> IT WAS WRITTEN - (3 out of 14) - street dreams, if i ruled the world,
>> affirmative action
>
> take it in blood, suspect, shootouts
the message, i gave you power, nas is coming, black girl lost, silent murder
>> NASTRADAMUS - (1 out of 15) - some of us have angels
>
> "come get up" is the only track i really like on that album.
nastradamus, project windows, you owe me (i like it)
>> STILLMATIC (4 out of 14) - ether, got yourself a gun, one mic, rewind
>
> ur da man, 2nd childhood, the flyest
rewind, smokin, destroy and rebuild, my country, what goes around...
--
This was an insight into the mind of ---Pete---
mattmatical
>"Guest" wrote:
>>>> KRS ONE, Rakim, Kool G Rap, Masta Ace, Big Daddy Kane to name a
>>>> few... all as, if not more, significant than LL... (That's not to
>>>> say LL doesn't deserve respect but he's not the 'King'...)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Masta Ace? There is a reason he went first on the Symphony. All of
>>> the others are in my top five GOATS, but they are really over. LL
>>> has maintained and has still had success. This guys has been around
>>> before any rapper out, including Slick Rick and has outlasted
>>> rappers who had 10+ year careers and he is still here and making
>>> classics. Come on man!
>
>Yes Masta Ace... He's a lot better than LL, 5 albums all of them dope as
>fuck and over a long time scale... he may not be as productive as LL (i.e.
>He doesn't release a shit album every couple of years.)
>His album this year could easily be album of
>the year, LL's wouldn't even come in the top 100 of the year...
Agreed.
>The last LL album I could listen to was "Mama Said"... the rest have had
>singles but been poor as albums...
>
>LL might be selling more than the others mentioned, but KRS is still more
>important than him, 13 albums, a couple of dodgy ones but on the whole
>they're all good or classics... Rakim is infinitely better than LL on the
>mic, his weak output beats LL's, his classic output beats LL... Kool G Rap
>is still as dope as he's ever been...
I give it up to Ace for being one of the few with consistently
good albums. But he's relatively free from pressure. The
others mentioned have to live up to genre-defining records.
From a strictly historical perspective nobody's touching LL,
and his post '80s career factors into that status as well, if
only because he's still around and sells some records.
"Guest"
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"MF" <ma...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:cq5p0o$2tv3$1...@cti36.citenet.net...
"Love You Better." "Headsprung." "Feel the Beat." "Hush." More to come I
am sure.
"Guest"
--
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<Jasper...@themaddhouse.com> wrote in message
news:q6tcs013107831b7j...@4ax.com...
> >The source audience is what determines if it's real.
>
> well yeah, that's what I indicated... "the listener" (i.e. the
> audience) makes that determination.
>
> >Real is how they(rappers) originally put forth hip-hop and
> >maintained it in it's pure form.
>
> Again, the audience/listener determines what Real is. For example,
> would Eminem ever say his shit *isn't* real hip-hop? No. To Em, his
> shit is real. However, a purist listener would say that Em's material
> is nothing more than fake commercial garbage.
>
> J.
You are right. Too many rapper today are saying that they are real and they
know that they are lying, but publicity, payoffs to radios stations for
airplay(Hot97) and MTV specials make a lot of people think. Combine that
with pussy rappers who are afraid to call him or any other multi-million
selling rapper out because they want some of their sales.
"Guest"
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"mochaspresso" <mochas...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o5dds0dirvv0r67e1...@4ax.com...
Hey, watch it with the CHuck D being better than LL....
"Guest"
--
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"suntzu" <suntzu.h...@freeshell.org> wrote in message
news:cq67fh$ga3$2...@news.Stanford.EDU...
You're both right.
"Guest"
--
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"Wasteland Drifter" <wastelan...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:11035442...@sabbath.news.uk.clara.net...
It is hits and more importantly classics. All of the great rapper were
outta here when they could no longer come out with a classic. Think about
it. Eminem is not even on my radar. Whe know why he sells 2 million off
the top.
"Guest"
--
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"mattmatical" <dont...@try.it> wrote in message
news:2iqcs055p68dh9mnt...@4ax.com...
Ace was out before the Symphony. Marley Marl is a very good judge of
talent. He put Kane on last on the first one because Kane was hot to death.
He put G Rap on last on the second one because everyone kept saying that G
Rap was better than Kane. Masta Ace is an average rapper, then and even
now. Although he sound better than a lot since his hip-hop sounds real.
mattmatical
>"mattmatical" <dont...@try.it> wrote in message
>news:2iqcs055p68dh9mnt...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 05:44:04 GMT, "\"Guest\"" wrote:
>>
>> "Masta Ace? There is a reason he went first on the Symphony."
>>
>> You're gonna hold the fact against him that he was once
>> a debuting rapper and had to stand in line behind three
>> more slightly more experienced rhymers?
>>
>> Is that your argument while you disregard his (quite
>> substantial) post-"Symphony" output?
>Ace was out before the Symphony.
Depends what you define as 'out'. Out as in having
a record out (/being on a record)? I don't think so.
"Guest"
--
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"Wasteland Drifter" <wastelan...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:11035381...@sabbath.news.uk.clara.net...
> "Guest" wrote:
> >>> KRS ONE, Rakim, Kool G Rap, Masta Ace, Big Daddy Kane to name a
> >>> few... all as, if not more, significant than LL... (That's not to
> >>> say LL doesn't deserve respect but he's not the 'King'...)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Masta Ace? There is a reason he went first on the Symphony. All of
> >> the others are in my top five GOATS, but they are really over. LL
> >> has maintained and has still had success. This guys has been around
> >> before any rapper out, including Slick Rick and has outlasted
> >> rappers who had 10+ year careers and he is still here and making
> >> classics. Come on man!
>
> Yes Masta Ace... He's a lot better than LL, 5 albums all of them dope as
> fuck and over a long time scale... he may not be as productive as LL (i.e.
> He doesn't release a shit album every couple of years.) Plus his non-album
> 12"s and guest apperances... His album this year could easily be album of
> the year, LL's wouldn't even come in the top 100 of the year...
I am sure that you stand alone on that.
>
> The last LL album I could listen to was "Mama Said"... the rest have had
> singles but been poor as albums...
Most agree that album was his absolute best. You can't miss when you go
with the real greatest producer of al time. Don't sleep on the "14 Shots to
the Dome." That was hot. Some call "Mr. Smith" a classic. He did get 4,
count em, 4 hip-hop classic off of that one alone. Why people like to hate
on LL? Is it becuase you are waiting for him to finally fall?
>
> LL might be selling more than the others mentioned, but KRS is still more
> important than him,
Oh really...?
13 albums, a couple of dodgy ones but on the whole
> they're all good or classics...
A couple? try like 4. The last album he had with a hit or what some may
call a classic is that "Step into a World." After that, he got as conry as
they came. His songs after summed up his career. "That's not hot."
Rakim is infinitely better than LL on the
> mic, his weak output beats LL's, his classic output beats LL... Kool G Rap
> is still as dope as he's ever been...
I already agreed that Rakim and G Rap are better MCs. Those two beat
anyone, so what's your point to that? You must be young or you forgot the
lyrics LL came out with when he first stepped on the scene. Now compare
those to Rakim and G Rap.
>
> Where are these LL classics from recent years exactly?
He has never had an album without at least one hip-hop classic on it. You
can't deny that.
>
> The last 'classic' track I can think of from him is "Mama Said" and that's
> over a decade old isn't it?
>
> LL was the 'Prince of Rap' back in the day, he's never claimed the title
of
> 'King' and with recent releases he's further from the title than ever.
Oh boy.
Wasteland Drifter
"Guest" wrote:
>>
>> Hey, watch it with the CHuck D being better than LL....
>>
Yes it would be such a shame to tell the truth now wouldn't it?
Wasteland Drifter
"Guest" wrote:
>>>
>>> They are all still making music... because they don't have major
>>> label support or the sales to match LL doesn't make them any less
>>> relevant than LL... if sales = relevance and greatness then Eminem
>>> is the GOAT... and quite clearly he's not...
>>>
>>
>> It is hits and more importantly classics. All of the great rapper
>> were outta here when they could no longer come out with a classic.
>> Think about it. Eminem is not even on my radar. Whe know why he
>> sells 2 million off the top.
LL isn't making classics anymore... he's an average commercial MC...
Kane, Ace, G Rap, KRS are all still making above average music, LL isn't
(and hasn't been for years!)
Wasteland Drifter
>>>
>>> Yes Masta Ace... He's a lot better than LL, 5 albums all of them
>>> dope as fuck and over a long time scale... he may not be as
>>> productive as LL (i.e. He doesn't release a shit album every couple
>>> of years.) Plus his non-album 12"s and guest apperances... His
>>> album this year could easily be album of the year, LL's wouldn't
>>> even come in the top 100 of the year...
>>
>> I am sure that you stand alone on that.
I'm sure I don't...
>>>
>>> The last LL album I could listen to was "Mama Said"... the rest
>>> have had singles but been poor as albums...
>>
>> Most agree that album was his absolute best. You can't miss when
>> you go with the real greatest producer of al time.
He's done an album with Premier?
Oh you meant Marley Marl...
>> Don't sleep on
>> the "14 Shots to the Dome." That was hot. Some call "Mr. Smith" a
>> classic. He did get 4, count em, 4 hip-hop classic off of that one
>> alone.
Classic = genre defining piece of work... there were not 4 of those on Mr
Smith...
>> Why people like to hate on LL? Is it becuase you are
>> waiting for him to finally fall?
Who's hating LL? I'm just saying he's not the best, not the King and is
churning out below average commercial music now...
>>>
>>> LL might be selling more than the others mentioned, but KRS is
>>> still more important than him,
>>
>> Oh really...?
Yes
>> 13 albums, a couple of dodgy ones but on the whole
>>> they're all good or classics...
>>
>> A couple? try like 4. The last album he had with a hit or what
>> some may call a classic is that "Step into a World." After that, he
>> got as conry as they came. His songs after summed up his career.
>> "That's not hot."
So for you a classic is a 'hit'... so if something sells millions it's a
classic despite it just being run of the mill but backed by a major label
budget (usually) leading it to sell more...
As for KRS I can only think of 1 really bad album (which was the
gospel/religious thing) and 'Sneak Attack' was in parts forgetable... so
that still leaves 10/11 albums which are all listenable, enjoyable and on
the whole better than LL's output.
>> Rakim is infinitely better than LL on the
>>> mic, his weak output beats LL's, his classic output beats LL...
>>> Kool G Rap is still as dope as he's ever been...
>>
>> I already agreed that Rakim and G Rap are better MCs. Those two beat
>> anyone, so what's your point to that? You must be young or you
>> forgot the lyrics LL came out with when he first stepped on the
>> scene. Now compare those to Rakim and G Rap.
And Rakim and G Rap are still better... what's your point?
>>>
>>> Where are these LL classics from recent years exactly?
>>
>> He has never had an album without at least one hip-hop classic on
>> it. You can't deny that.
Yes I can... 'The Definition' does not have a 'classic' on it... there's one
for a start...
-->noixe
if you're gonna wear the crown, you gotta earn it year after year. I'm not
gonna front, my knowledge of LL is pretty sparse. it's like "radio," "jack
the ripper," "mama said" and "jinglin baby" and then all this recent crap
that makes me angry just thinkin about it. oh yeah, he's also got "boomin
system."
anyways LL might be the greatest of 1985-1992 or so. but he should have
bowed out ten years ago. then maybe I'd never have had to hear "hush."
anyways why the fuck are we talking about who the best rapper ever is? rap
is 25 years old. nobody (except 13 year old fanboys) sits around and argues
about who the greatest rock group of all time was. there's too much rap.
there's no greatest.
>> " Look at his resume.
>> Look as Nas' resume. He basically has a series of one hit per album and
>> his
>> career hangs on one song."
>>
>>
>> I kinda agre with the first part, but not the 2nd
>>
>> I wouldn't even know what one song made his career or what song you
>> would even be thinking about..
>>
>> I would say the common listener didn't even hear of him beofre "If I
>> Ruled.." but of course Illmatic is thought of as his most critical work
>>
>> He's no LL, that's for sure, hell Jay-z ain't either, not even Tupac
>>
>> LL is the all-time king of rap, and he's not even my personal favorite,
>> it's just fact
>
> I am a massive LL fan, but I wouldn't say that he is a the king of rap.
> The only problem is, is that i don't know who is.
>
> I just believe that LL has a far superior catalogue to both Nas and Jay Z.
>
> Nas has Illmatic. A classic. One of, if not the greatest hip hop album of
> all time.
> LL has "Mama said", "Radio", "Bigger and Deffer". He also has a couple of
> other strong albums.
> Jay Z only has "Reasonable Doubt" in my oppinion.
>
> I don't know how you can really compare them though. Jay Z made the most
> money. LL has the better individual tracks. Nas is seen as probably the
> best mc. I can't really compare them one against one.
>
> I just know that my preference, in order, is:
> 1 - LL
> 2 - Nas
> 3 - Jay Z
>
> Laters,
> alan d aka big al
>
>
-->noixe
"Jasper...@themaddhouse.com" <Jasper...@themaddhouse.com> wrote:
>>>> Look as Nas' resume. He basically has a series of one hit per album and
>> his career hangs on one song.
>>
>> I beg to differ. Nas has many songs that were hits.
>
> Nas' shit is way overrated. He really does only have a few decent
> tracks per album. Let's take them one-by-one:
>
> ILLMATIC - (3 out of 10)- it ain't hard to tell, ny state of mind,
> world is yours + life's a bitch, so make it 4 out of 10.
as the kids say, "lolololol."
-->noixe
> start listening to hip-hop, but they don't wanna be associated with what
> they find objectionable, so they come up with ridiculous lines of
> reasoning about how only "conscious" shit (or whatever it is they like)
> is real hip-hop. that shit's retarded.
hey some of us grew out of that.
-->noixe
>
> People can argue whether the other recent hits he's had like
> "Headsprung", "Hush", "Phenomenon , "Love You Better", "Paradise" etc
> are classics. But imo, LL deserves his GOAT status because he is the
> only artist from that golden hip-hop era who has consistantly remained
> in the game on the major level and has consistantly been successful.
> He's still on Def Jam, he's still putting out albums and he still has
> hit songs. Yes, plenty like Rakim and Kane and Chuck D were all
> better MC's than LL......but where are they now?
ok not to get into the stupid commercial v. underground wars, but for lack
of a better analogy, somewhere in the 90's, the idea of pop rap came up and
LL ran with it. it's not all about 'remaining in the game and being
successful'--I think success is relative, and I give more credit to someone
like Too Short who has been making the same damn album year after year and
hasn't lost any fans.
what I'm getting at is LL's fan base circa 1989 is very different than his
fan base now. he crossed over. he moves his units to 13 year old girls. the
Nelly crowd. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that inherantly, but
if you're trying to get by on your credentials as an emcee, Chingy et al
isn't company you want to keep.
-->noixe
>>
>> ur da man, 2nd childhood, the flyest
>
> rewind, smokin, destroy and rebuild, my country, what goes around...
see the problem is he aint heard Friedmatic.
-->noixe
>>> were outta here when they could no longer come out with a classic.
>>> Think about it. Eminem is not even on my radar. Whe know why he
>>> sells 2 million off the top.
>
> LL isn't making classics anymore... he's an average commercial MC...
>
> Kane, Ace, G Rap, KRS are all still making above average music, LL isn't
> (and hasn't been for years!)
erm KRS and Kane aint done shit worth shit in a minute.
except Kane's verse on "Day At the Races."
-->noixe
>>
>> ...and hip-hop's younger than a lot of other genres, so it's just
>> getting to the point where it really needs subgenres.
>
> Hip-hop is 25 years old. Yet there are no sub-genres.
hip-hop sub-genres:
-crunk
-nerd rap
-ny underground
-detroit (jay dee's off kilter style)
-bay area
-la funk
-new orleans bounce
etc
-->noixe
>
> I'm sure I don't...
yeah I'll cosign that (and get conveniently ignored)
>>>> The last LL album I could listen to was "Mama Said"... the rest
>>>> have had singles but been poor as albums...
>>>
>>> Most agree that album was his absolute best. You can't miss when
>>> you go with the real greatest producer of al time.
>
> He's done an album with Premier?
>
> Oh you meant Marley Marl...
damn I thought he meant El-P.
mattmatical
>ok not to get into the stupid commercial v. underground wars, but for lack
>of a better analogy, somewhere in the 90's, the idea of pop rap came up and
>LL ran with it.
LL helped create pop rap, remember. At least a somewhat
credible early version of it.
>he crossed over. he moves his units to 13 year old girls. the
>Nelly crowd.
Who do you think helped make "I Need Love" one of rap
music's biggest hits (dare I say 'classics') ever? That's right,
13 year old girls. And by the way, there's absolutely nothing
wrong with 13 year old female hip-hop fans.
Wasteland Drifter
>>>
>>> LL isn't making classics anymore... he's an average commercial MC...
>>>
>>> Kane, Ace, G Rap, KRS are all still making above average music, LL
>>> isn't (and hasn't been for years!)
>>
>> erm KRS and Kane aint done shit worth shit in a minute.
>>
>> except Kane's verse on "Day At the Races."
'Any Type Of Way' springs to mind... along with some other guest
apperances... Kane's not prolific enough I'll give you that... then again if
he was then I'm sure he'd be getting the "I wish he'd hang up the mic" abuse
veteran's seem to get regardless of the quality of their material...
'Keep Right' was/is a good album, and 100% better than 'The Definition'...
"Guest"
--
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"Wasteland Drifter" <wastelan...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:110356793...@spandrell.news.uk.clara.net...
have both and I like LL's better. I like KRS not talking about drugs, guns
and murder.
Wasteland Drifter
>>>
>>> 'Keep Right' was/is a good album, and 100% better than 'The
>>> Definition'...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> have both and I like LL's better. I like KRS not talking about
>> drugs, guns and murder.
'Keep Right' obviously didn't sell enough for you to like it...
-->noixe
>>
>> hip-hop sub-genres:
>> -crunk
>> -nerd rap
>> -ny underground
>> -detroit (jay dee's off kilter style)
>> -bay area
>> -la funk
>> -new orleans bounce
>>
>> etc
>
> by the music industry. I don't recall a trophy for Best New Orleans
> Bounce album of 2004 being handed out at the Grammy Awards.
oh ok
it's surpising the source awards hasn't jumped on that either.
think about how much easier this could be if they did awards by
region/style? (and how many more awards benzino could give himself)
Pizon
>
>Depends what you define as 'out'. Out as in having
>a record out (/being on a record)? I don't think so.
According to Ace, "The Symphony" is his debut.
Get at me,
Pizon
http://www.pizonishiphop.com
--
...P.I. till I die and I just laugh at you cats...
A to the L
you all suck cocks...
K.O.N.Y. = Primo
(and he ain't even from there)
PEACH
A to the L
suntzu
"Hey, watch it with the CHuck D being better than LL...."
i like both, but chuck's definitely the better MC. no question.
suntzu
i think the point is that LL is selling to exactly the audience that
Guest says makes music not real hip-hop. Guest is the only one saying
that there's something wrong with that.
suntzu
>
> anyways why the fuck are we talking about who the best rapper ever is? rap
> is 25 years old. nobody (except 13 year old fanboys) sits around and argues
> about who the greatest rock group of all time was. there's too much rap.
> there's no greatest.
>
co-fuckin-sign
-->noixe
<suntzu.h...@freeshell.org> wrote:
damn straight
I run this internet shit
suntzu
let's not forget stuff like "deep blue sea"; that's a sellout pop track
if there ever was one (and for a really bad movie at that).
and that doesn't take away from LL's good stuff. but, by your
definition, it makes him "not hip-hop", if only for that track.
suntzu
=) (i think i actually remember a post a while back where you talked
about having that phase, but i was actually thinking of a specific
irritating person that lived on my hall freshman year, so this wasn't
directed at any rmhh members)
anyway, i'm not really insulting people who do that, i'm just saying
it's a retarded/unnecessary argument. there's nothing wrong with only
liking some hip-hop. i'm just sayin there's no reason to come up with
wierd justifications for what you like and what you don't. for
instance, i don't listen to much rock (and i've only really been
listening to any for the last 3 or 4 years). i tend to be more into
either stuff with a more pronounced electronic influence (e.g. tv on the
radio, radiohead from ok computer and on) or indie stuff with good beats
(e.g. modest mouse), but i'd never claim that that's the only real rock
music.
and honestly, much or most of what i really like these days would be
considered "backpacker" stuff anyway. but i wouldn't call the stuff i
don't like not hip-hop. it's all hip-hop. pop fans saying atmosphere
isn't hip-hop bothers me as much as backpackers saying that chingy isn't
hip-hop.
really, what irritated me about the specific guy i was thinking of was
that i'd been listening to hip-hop since like 6th grade, and he'd been
listening to it for like a year before he came to college. and then
he'd come with patronizing arguments about how blackstar and common were
hip-hop but dre and tupac weren't (they were "rap"). all the more
irritating because i really like blackstar and common, so i couldn't
just be like "yeah, the shit you listen to sucks."
suntzu
> "suntzu" wrote in message
>>>I AM (6 out of 16) - ny state of mind II, kissing, dr. knockboots,
>>>favor for a favor, hate me now, nas is like
>
>
> we will survive, life is what you make it, i want to talk to you.
yeah, forgot the second two you mentioned. we will survive is alright too.
>
>
>>>IT WAS WRITTEN - (3 out of 14) - street dreams, if i ruled the world,
>>>affirmative action
>>
>>take it in blood, suspect, shootouts
>
>
> the message, i gave you power, nas is coming, black girl lost, silent murder
>
i can't believe i forgot the message, that was my favorite on that album
for a long time (now tied with "take it in blood", i think).
>
>>>NASTRADAMUS - (1 out of 15) - some of us have angels
>>
>>"come get up" is the only track i really like on that album.
>
>
> nastradamus, project windows, you owe me (i like it)
"project window" is dope. i really like the first few lines of
"nastradamus" but the chorus ruins it for me.
suntzu
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 03:58:29 -0600, suntzu
> <suntzu.h...@freeshell.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Jasper...@themaddhouse.com wrote:
>>
>>>>it's not a matter of non-purist.
>>>
>>>
>>>sure it is.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>i'm sure there are things that are considered "more pure" in other
>>>>genres (e.g. the resurgence of rock bands with a more stripped down sound),
>>>>but that doesn't make other things in those genres less a part of the genre.
>>>
>>>
>>>It doesn't apply to most other genres because they actually created
>>>sub-genres to encompass the different interpolations. For example,
>>>originally there was only one genre known as "Rock." However, over
>>>the years, Rock was eventually subdivided into Adult Rock, Classic
>>>Rock, Folk Rock, Acid Rock, etc.
>>
>>there's no central genre creating board that hands these things down.
>
>
> That's correct to a point. Such classifications are collectively
> determined by the music industry as a whole (labels, distributors,
> industry execs, focus groups, etc.)
yeah, but i find they frequently misclassify such things (e.g. to market
limp bizkit as any sort of hip-hop, if only as rap/metal, but to say
that dj shadow is dance or electronic, that just doesn't make any
sense). execs and focus groups shouldn't really be taken seriously on
issues like this. if anything should define a genre, it should just be
the rough consensus of the fans, and fans shouldn't be limited to just
one demographic (e.g. "the black ghetto" as Guest said), it should be
all the fans who are genuinely into it.
>
>
>>>The genre of Hip-Hop never received that type of concrete subdivision.
>>
>>...and hip-hop's younger than a lot of other genres, so it's just
>>getting to the point where it really needs subgenres.
>
>
> Hip-hop is 25 years old. Yet there are no sub-genres. While the
> genre of Alternative, which is far newer, not only exists but already
> has several sub-genres. Go figure.
>
> J.
"Guest"
"Wasteland Drifter" <wastelan...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:110357188...@spandrell.news.uk.clara.net...
I would never have bought it if I did not like it.
"Guest"
"suntzu" <suntzu.h...@freeshell.org> wrote in message
news:cq7j2e$dog$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
> "Guest" wrote:
>
> "Hey, watch it with the CHuck D being better than LL...."
>
> i like both, but chuck's definitely the better MC. no question.
Are you sure? MC usually refers to how you say and how you come off on the
mic regardless of how good or bad your lyrics are. Besides, LL's rhymes are
still better than Chuck's regardless.
"Guest"
--
This site exposes them all!
Damn toms!
"suntzu" <suntzu.h...@freeshell.org> wrote in message
news:cq7kof$f18$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
Come on. Most soundtracks songs don't count. They usually only put
together some BS for a quick money grab. While other use it as life support
for a career.
"Guest"
--
This site exposes them all!
Damn toms!
"Pizon" <rocks...@aol.commonsense> wrote in message
news:20041220160449...@mb-m11.aol.com...
Ok, but do you know how many rappers are known for their 'debut,' but have
actually had a few other cuts out before they got a hit, but those cuts did
not make noise? There are a lot...
mochaspresso
<wastelan...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
>They are all still making music... because they don't have major label
>support or the sales to match LL doesn't make them any less relevant than
>LL... if sales = relevance and greatness then Eminem is the GOAT... and
>quite clearly he's not...
>
....how much you wanna bet that Eminem gets that title 20 yrs from now
anyway. Can anyone say "Elvis"? (...ie...extremely talented but not
even close to being the best at what he does. A cat who found his
audience, his niche in the game and his trademark gimmick and milked
it for all it was worth.)
anywhoo.....
I didn't know that the discussion was who is more relevant? The
discussion was whether LL deserves the GOAT title. Relevant to what,
anyway? See, I have this little problem w/ usenet in that certain
vague buzz words get tossed around frequently and those words seem to
mean different things to different people. I see all this talk about
"the streets" and "the black ghetto". If that's who's calling the
shots, then guess who's GOAT right now? 50 cent/G-Unit. Actually,
I'll clarify. They are the greatest right now. The actual GOAT vote
would probably go to Biggie.
-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->-=-=->
Mochaspresso
mochaspresso
>
>>>I think he claims he's the "greatest man alive" on his single, though.
>That's a bit of a stretch.
>
>Yes, that's what I meant.
>It's not only a bit stretched, but a blasphemy.
>
Not when you think about the context of the song. A father is telling
his son that he's the greatest man alive.
Pizon
>actually had a few other cuts out before they got a hit, but those cuts did
>not make noise? There are a lot...
Practically all of them.
Pizon
>"the streets" and "the black ghetto". If that's who's calling the
>shots, then guess who's GOAT right now? 50 cent/G-Unit.
Maybe at this time last year. I think their run is about up.
suntzu
absolutely positive. chuck's got better lyrics, delivery, flow, and voice.
Pizon
>> mic regardless of how good or bad your lyrics are.
Never heard this definition before. An MC's most important weapon is his
lyrics... that supercedes everything else.
suntzu
"Come on. Most soundtracks songs don't count. They usually only put
together some BS for a quick money grab. While other use it as life
support for a career."
that's my point, LL's as willing to do the money grab shit as anyone else.
mochaspresso
>> I see all this talk about
>>"the streets" and "the black ghetto". If that's who's calling the
>>shots, then guess who's GOAT right now? 50 cent/G-Unit.
>
>Maybe at this time last year. I think their run is about up.
>
>Get at me,
>Pizon
>http://www.pizonishiphop.com
I dunno. I hear "Karma" playing out of a lot of cars that pass by.
"Guest"
--
This site exposes them all!
Damn toms!
"mochaspresso" <mochas...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:r45fs057ovtbnequu...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:03:39 -0000, "Wasteland Drifter"
> <wastelan...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >They are all still making music... because they don't have major label
> >support or the sales to match LL doesn't make them any less relevant than
> >LL... if sales = relevance and greatness then Eminem is the GOAT... and
> >quite clearly he's not...
> >
>
> ....how much you wanna bet that Eminem gets that title 20 yrs from now
> anyway. Can anyone say "Elvis"? (...ie...extremely talented but not
> even close to being the best at what he does. A cat who found his
> audience, his niche in the game and his trademark gimmick and milked
> it for all it was worth.)
Gimmick? He used no gimmick. His skin is what does it for him. He even
says that.
>
> anywhoo.....
>
> I didn't know that the discussion was who is more relevant? The
> discussion was whether LL deserves the GOAT title. Relevant to what,
> anyway? See, I have this little problem w/ usenet in that certain
> vague buzz words get tossed around frequently and those words seem to
> mean different things to different people. I see all this talk about
> "the streets" and "the black ghetto". If that's who's calling the
> shots, then guess who's GOAT right now? 50 cent/G-Unit. Actually,
> I'll clarify. They are the greatest right now. The actual GOAT vote
> would probably go to Biggie.
That's the young streets. Biggie is not in my running for GOAT
"Guest"
--
This site exposes them all!
Damn toms!
"suntzu" <suntzu.h...@freeshell.org> wrote in message
news:cq8bo8$3l$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
I have never heard any of that about Chuck. Especially about his voice
being better than anyone else's. LL is the perfect rapper. The Jordan of
Hip-Hop.
"Guest"
"Pizon" <rocks...@aol.commonsense> wrote in message
news:20041221002342...@mb-m07.aol.com...
That is a rhyme spitter, lyricist or a rapper. An MC is how well they bring
it. There were great MC's who did not write their own shit, but were great
MC's.