Get your hand out of my pocket!
Graham J Weeks
Freedom Day - and it has arrived three days later than last year.
That is a sign the tax burden on the average person has risen, it
says.
In the US the tax burden on the average citizen is generally lower
than it is in the UK.
Recent tax cuts there mean workers enjoyed their Tax Freedom Day on
April 11, the earliest for 37 years.
However, in the Euro zone earners will not stop working for their
governments until June 28.
In Denmark and Sweden taxpayers have to work until the end of July.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/business/3761255.stm
--
Graham J Weeks M.R.Pharm.S.
http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/ Graham's Homepage
9106 quotes 628 topics 2106 authors indexed 761 links
http://www.donkeyworks.com/ipc/ Our church
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To have the state as servant and not as master - Margaret Thatcher
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Bonanno
"Graham J Weeks" > The Adam Smith Institute think-tank has calculated 30 May
is Tax
> Freedom Day - and it has arrived three days later than last year.
> That is a sign the tax burden on the average person has risen, it
> says.
>
> In the US the tax burden on the average citizen is generally lower
> than it is in the UK.
> Recent tax cuts there mean workers enjoyed their Tax Freedom Day on
> April 11, the earliest for 37 years.
> However, in the Euro zone earners will not stop working for their
> governments until June 28.
> In Denmark and Sweden taxpayers have to work until the end of July.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/business/3761255.stm
Tax freedom day arrives for some, much earlier than for others. The arcane
tax codes of the US tend to favor those who can afford tax-avoidance
professionals, and recent tax cuts that have eroded the progressive tax
system are also a boon to those at the highest strata of society. I would
guess so-called Tax Freedom Day comes latest for the Middle Class. And the
profligate spending of so-called conservatives will force a day of reckoning
that will drive this day ever further ahead into the year, once responsible
government is back in place.
Taxation, for example, is eternally lively; it concerns nine-tenths of us
more directly than either smallpox or golf, and has just as much drama in
it; moreover, it has been mellowed and made gay by as many gaudy,
preposterous theories. ~H.L. Mencken
"If you're from Washington, you want to pick and choose winners. I don't
think that's the role of the president. I think if you're going to have tax
relief, everybody benefits. The vice president believes that only the right
people ought to get tax relief. I don't think that's the role of the
president to pick, 'You're right,' and 'You're not right.' I think if you're
going to have tax relief, everybody ought to get it." George W. Bush during
2000 campaign
Of course the very richest benefitted most from the Bush tax cuts.
Everybody got it. Some people got it a lot more than others.
The very wealthiest people should pay a lot more in taxes because they stand
to lose the most if the protections of government disappear.
Frank Lynch
resembling Cicero, "John Bonanno" <adi...@reeemoooveadelphia.net>
wrote:
>Tax freedom day arrives for some, much earlier than for others. The arcane
>tax codes of the US tend to favor those who can afford tax-avoidance
>professionals, and recent tax cuts that have eroded the progressive tax
>system are also a boon to those at the highest strata of society. I would
>guess so-called Tax Freedom Day comes latest for the Middle Class. And the
>profligate spending of so-called conservatives will force a day of reckoning
>that will drive this day ever further ahead into the year, once responsible
>government is back in place.
Payroll taxes also tend to escape the calculations.
ObQuote:
Round numbers are always false.
- Samuel Johnson (G.B. Hill, Johnsonian Miscellanies)
Frank Lynch
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
http://www.samueljohnson.com/
Graham J Weeks
John Bonanno wrote:
> Tax freedom day arrives for some, much earlier than for others. The arcane
> tax codes of the US tend to favor those who can afford tax-avoidance
> professionals, and recent tax cuts that have eroded the progressive tax
> system are also a boon to those at the highest strata of society. I would
> guess so-called Tax Freedom Day comes latest for the Middle Class. And the
> profligate spending of so-called conservatives will force a day of reckoning
> that will drive this day ever further ahead into the year, once responsible
> government is back in place.
Responsible government being Bonannospeak for more government.
> The very wealthiest people should pay a lot more in taxes because they stand
> to lose the most if the protections of government disappear.
Those who would lose the biggest percentage as those on welfare.
The less government we have, the better. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson, 'Politics'
Tom
> John Bonanno wrote:
> Responsible government being Bonannospeak for more government.
And "fair" taxes mean more taxes.
Tom Parsons
--
--
t...@panix.com | The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.
| --Bertrand Russell
http://www.panix.com/~twp |
John Bonanno
"Graham J Weeks" bloviated:
> Responsible government being Bonannospeak for more government.
George W. Bush has grown government more than any Democrat in history.
The budget is blown up.
A huge new bureaucracy is tasked to monitor personal freedom has the
vaguely Orwellian name "Department of Homeland Security". What a joke.
Black is white and white is black. Republicans are not anti Big Government.
They love Big Government as long as it does things they like.
> > The very wealthiest people should pay a lot more in taxes because they
stand
> > to lose the most if the protections of government disappear.
>
> Those who would lose the biggest percentage as those on welfare.
"Only the little people pay taxes."
-- Leona Helmsley (reported at her trial for tax evasion)
People on welfare have nothing to lose. Rich guys who live in gated
communities and sit on boards of corporations have a lot to lose.
"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."
-- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
> The less government we have, the better. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson,
'Politics'
I agree and I wish right wing hypocrites would stop claiming they are
against Big Government.
"It is not the man who has little, but he who desires more, that is poor."
Seneca
"If it's good enough for Tyco and Stanley Tool, why isn't it good enough for
all of you? Why shouldn't you set up a mailbox in Bermuda or somewhere and
avoid your federal income tax? It goes back to basic responsibility."
- Rep. Dick Gephardt (D-MO)
"Beyond our shareholder concerns, we believe that it is unpatriotic for
corporations to place a larger burden on other taxpayers while still
benefiting from the stability and privleges this country provides. America's
working families pay their taxes, and expect that American corporations will
do the same. Simply put, reincorporation is a poor decision and should be
reevaluated by all who promote good corporate citizenship and governnance."
-- AFL-CIO testimony to House Ways and Means Committee
Amazing Grace
average American pays 34 cents on each dollar in state, local, payroll
and federal taxes.
The average Scandanavian pays 48 cents on each dollar (or 48% of a Krona)
For that the Scandanavian gets free education through graduate school
and free medical care from cradle to grave.
The American pays 34 cents, plus 14 cents for health care plus ? for
education expenses for higher education or private schooling.
Thus the average American probably pays more out of pocket for
government services, health care, and education than any other citizen
in the so called "first world"
OBQ
Taxes are what we pay for civilized society. Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
--
Amazing Grace's Eclectic Quotation Collection
*103,000 quotations, proverbs, by people of all philosophies, ages and
cultures. CD-ROM For more info. or free sample of one category, send a
personal e-mail: gem...@shoescomcast.net (remove shoes)
. . . Grace McGarvie . . .
. . Plymouth,Mn. 55447 U.S.A.
The Sanity Inspector
<adi...@reeemoooveadelphia.net> just wrote!:
>Tax freedom day arrives for some, much earlier than for others. The arcane
>tax codes of the US tend to favor those who can afford tax-avoidance
>professionals, and recent tax cuts that have eroded the progressive tax
>system are also a boon to those at the highest strata of society. I would
>guess so-called Tax Freedom Day comes latest for the Middle Class. And the
>profligate spending of so-called conservatives will force a day of reckoning
>that will drive this day ever further ahead into the year, once responsible
>government is back in place.
Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
-- Robert Lefevre
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
-- The Jam
The Sanity Inspector
just wrote!:
>One interesting piece of info to add to this is the average - the
>average American pays 34 cents on each dollar in state, local, payroll
>and federal taxes.
>
>The average Scandanavian pays 48 cents on each dollar (or 48% of a Krona)
>
>For that the Scandanavian gets free education through graduate school
>and free medical care from cradle to grave.
>
>The American pays 34 cents, plus 14 cents for health care plus ? for
>education expenses for higher education or private schooling.
>
>Thus the average American probably pays more out of pocket for
>government services, health care, and education than any other citizen
>in the so called "first world"
>
I asked Janerik Larsson--executive vice president and director
of communications at a media conglomerate with the conglomeration of a
name Industriforvaltnings ABB Kinnevik--why Swedes still worked. If
they don't work, they get almost what they would get if they did work.
And if they do work, their raises and bonuses are all taxed away.
Give Americans a situation like that, and we'd be putting all our
economic energy in to playing extra cards at the bingo hall. But
there was nothing visible in Sweden to indicate much national
goldbricking. Mr. Larsson pointed to the window: "You see how it is
outside? It's _always_ like that here." Over the centuries the
Swedish gene stock has been culled. The lazy ones froze.
-- P. J. O'Rourke, "Good Socialism", _Eat the Rich_, 1998
What happens to Sweden when nobody's willing to lend it more
money and the Swedes realize that they really can skip work for four
months if the kid pukes? The people of Sweden--like Damocles--are set
down to a sumptuous feast, and overhead, suspended by a hair is...not
a sword, this is too prosaic a country...a gigantic wet blanket.
-- ibid
Graham J Weeks
John Bonanno wrote:
>
> "Graham J Weeks" bloviated:
> > Responsible government being Bonannospeak for more government.
>
> George W. Bush has grown government more than any Democrat in history.
> The budget is blown up.
> A huge new bureaucracy is tasked to monitor personal freedom has the
> vaguely Orwellian name "Department of Homeland Security". What a joke.
> Black is white and white is black. Republicans are not anti Big Government.
> They love Big Government as long as it does things they like.
If you want to sound off about your national politics, I am not going to be
your whipping boy, not wishing to interfere in the internal affairs of other
nations.
>
> > > The very wealthiest people should pay a lot more in taxes because they
> stand
> > > to lose the most if the protections of government disappear.
> >
> > Those who would lose the biggest percentage as those on welfare.
>
> "Only the little people pay taxes."
> -- Leona Helmsley (reported at her trial for tax evasion)
>
> People on welfare have nothing to lose. Rich guys who live in gated
> communities and sit on boards of corporations have a lot to lose.
So it is not just on matters of religion that you are blind to what others
plainly see? If the poor lose welfare they lose everything.
Unless they are all in the black economy, on the fiddle or whatever it is
called, on your side of the pond.
>
> "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."
> -- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
>
> > The less government we have, the better. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson,
> 'Politics'
>
> I agree and I wish right wing hypocrites would stop claiming they are
> against Big Government.
Are all against statism right wing hypocrites?
War is the common harvest of all those who participate in the division and
expenditure of public money, in all countries. It is the art of *conquering at
home:* the object of it is an increase of revenue; and as revenue cannot be
increased without taxes, a pretence must be made for expenditures. In reviewing
the history of the English government, its wars, and taxes, an observer, not
blinded by prejudice, nor warped by interest would declare, that taxes were not
raised to carry on wars, but that wars were raised to carry on taxes. --Thomas
Paine, _Rights of Man_
Most Americans aren't the sort of citizens the Founding Fathers expected; they
are contented serfs. Far from being active critics of government, they assume
that its might makes it right. -- Joseph Sobra
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain
ground. Thomas Jefferson
No man is free who depends on his government for his sustenance, job, home, or
hope. No constitution, no court, no law can save liberty when it dies in the
hearts and minds of men. John Perkins
Graham J Weeks
Amazing Grace wrote:
> One interesting piece of info to add to this is the average - the
> average American pays 34 cents on each dollar in state, local, payroll
> and federal taxes.
>
> The average Scandanavian pays 48 cents on each dollar (or 48% of a Krona)
>
> For that the Scandanavian gets free education through graduate school
> and free medical care from cradle to grave.
>
> The American pays 34 cents, plus 14 cents for health care plus ? for
> education expenses for higher education or private schooling.
>
> Thus the average American probably pays more out of pocket for
> government services, health care, and education than any other citizen
> in the so called "first world"
>
How many asylum seekers etc prefer Sweden to the US?
Private schooling is a choice for which the family pays twice, fees and the tax
for the state to educate other people's children.
What Tax Freedom Day means (in the UK)
Tax Freedom Day shows the total tax paid each year by
a taxpayer on average income, including indirect taxes, local taxes and National
Insurance
contributions, as a percentage of that individual's
total income. It is calculated by comparing general government tax rev-enue with
the Net National
Income (NNI). The total of all government tax revenue
- direct and indirect taxes, local taxes and National Insurance contributions -
is calculated as a
per-centage of NNI at market prices. The result is
then converted to days of the year, starting from 1 January.
http://www.adamsmith.org/tax/technical.php
John Bonanno
"Graham J Weeks" ejaculated:
> John Bonanno wrote:
> >
> > "Graham J Weeks" bloviated:
> > > Responsible government being Bonannospeak for more government.
> >
> > George W. Bush has grown government more than any Democrat in history.
> > The budget is blown up.
> > A huge new bureaucracy is tasked to monitor personal freedom has the
> > vaguely Orwellian name "Department of Homeland Security". What a joke.
> > Black is white and white is black. Republicans are not anti Big
Government.
> > They love Big Government as long as it does things they like.
>
> If you want to sound off about your national politics, I am not going to
be
> your whipping boy, not wishing to interfere in the internal affairs of
other
> nations.
Oh if only more "conservatives" wished not to interfere in the affairs of
other nations.
You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind
word alone.
- Al Capone
It makes no difference whether government controls allegedly favor the
interests of labor or business, of the poor or the rich, of a special class
or a special race: the results are the same. The notion that a dictatorship
can benefit any one social group at the expense of others is a worn remnant
of the Marxist mythology of class warfare, refuted by half a century of
factual evidence. All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship;
nobody wins-except the ruling clique.
- Ayn Rand
Conservative governments favor the ruling class.
> >
> > > > The very wealthiest people should pay a lot more in taxes because
they
> > stand
> > > > to lose the most if the protections of government disappear.
If I run a security business, I charge the man who owns the 60 room mansion
more for my services than I do a man who lives in a one room cabin.
> > >
> > > Those who would lose the biggest percentage as those on welfare.
People with nothing have nothing to lose. Welfare as practiced in the USA
is simply the minimum cost to avoid social unrest.
> > "Only the little people pay taxes."
> > -- Leona Helmsley (reported at her trial for tax evasion)
Leona was severely punished for letting the truth slip out.
> >
> > People on welfare have nothing to lose. Rich guys who live in gated
> > communities and sit on boards of corporations have a lot to lose.
> So it is not just on matters of religion that you are blind to what others
> plainly see? If the poor lose welfare they lose everything.
> Unless they are all in the black economy, on the fiddle or whatever it is
> called, on your side of the pond.
How conservative Christians choose the more convenient rigours of their
religion!
"Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that taketh away thy
goods ask not again." Luke 6:30
"In case some one of your brothers becomes poor among you in one of your
cities, in your land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not
harden your heart or be closefisted toward your poor brother. For you should
generously open your hand to him and by all means lend him on pledge as much
as he needs, which he is in want of... You should by all means give to him,
and your heart should not be stingy in your giving to him, because on this
account Jehovah your God will bless you in every deed of yours and in every
undertaking of yours. For someone poor will never cease to be in the midst
of the land. That is why I am commanding you, saying, 'You should generously
open up your hand to your afflicted and poor brother in your land." (Deut
15:7-11).
> >
> > "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."
> > -- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
> >
> > > The less government we have, the better. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson,
> > 'Politics'
> >
> > I agree and I wish right wing hypocrites would stop claiming they are
> > against Big Government.
>
> Are all against statism right wing hypocrites?
If you are truly against statism you are not a hypocrite. However, in
practice, conservatives are NOT against statism. They love huge war
establishments. They love elaborate police apparatus. They love to pass
laws against activities that offend their hyper-religious morality.
"My brothers, what use is it for a man to say he has faith when he does
nothing to show it? Can that faith save him? Suppose a brother or a sister
is in rags with not enough food for the day, and one of you says, 'Good luck
to you, keep yourselves warm, and have plenty to eat', but does nothing to
supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So with faith; if it
does not lead to action, it is in itself a lifeless thing." (James 2:14-17).
> War is the common harvest of all those who participate in the division and
> expenditure of public money, in all countries. It is the art of
*conquering at
> home:* the object of it is an increase of revenue; and as revenue cannot
be
> increased without taxes, a pretence must be made for expenditures. In
reviewing
> the history of the English government, its wars, and taxes, an observer,
not
> blinded by prejudice, nor warped by interest would declare, that taxes
were not
> raised to carry on wars, but that wars were raised to carry on
taxes. --Thomas
> Paine, _Rights of Man_
The taxes used to carry on wars exceeds that used for welfare programs by
far. Our constitution tasks the federal government to pass laws for the
general welfare, not corporate interests. Corporations are never mentioned
in the US Constitution. Free enterprise is never mentioned in the US
Constitution. Conservatives somehow confound free enterprise with freedom.
They are not necessary always compatible. I will not comment on the
situation in the UK.
By the way, my ideas on welfare are not what you may suppose.
>
> Most Americans aren't the sort of citizens the Founding Fathers expected;
they
> are contented serfs. Far from being active critics of government, they
assume
> that its might makes it right. -- Joseph Sobra
I couldn't agree more.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." Edward R. Murrow
>
> The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to
gain
> ground. Thomas Jefferson
> No man is free who depends on his government for his sustenance, job,
home, or
> hope. No constitution, no court, no law can save liberty when it dies in
the
> hearts and minds of men. John Perkins
In the USA, so-called conservatives have increased the size of government,
and government activism against the freedom of the people. They have
increased foreign aid (welfare to dictators that more often than not
ultimately goes to US corporations selling weapons) 50% since Clinton was
President. The proof is in the pudding. As I stated in the beginning,
conservatives who claim they are against big government are prevaricators.
It is all theory and no practice. They love big government as long as it
does what they like.
Charity begins at home. [Lat., Proximus sum egomet mihi.]
Terence (Publius Terentius Afer) Andria (act IV, sc. 1, 12),
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these
is charity.
I Corinthians (ch. XIII, v. 13)
Amazing Grace
children is an immigrant so many are choosing Sweden. I also noted that
every one worked - men and women - retirement age there is now 70.
OBQ
I would rather have my people laugh at my economies than weep for my
extravagance. Oscar II of Sweden
--
David C Kifer
> It makes no difference whether government controls allegedly favor the
> interests of labor or business, of the poor or the rich, of a special class
> or a special race: the results are the same. The notion that a dictatorship
> can benefit any one social group at the expense of others is a worn remnant
> of the Marxist mythology of class warfare, refuted by half a century of
> factual evidence. All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship;
> nobody wins-except the ruling clique.
> - Ayn Rand
Tell this to the Democratic Party, as they try to pander to every splinter
minority they can possibly define.
> The taxes used to carry on wars exceeds that used for welfare programs by
> far. Our constitution tasks the federal government to pass laws for the
> general welfare, not corporate interests. Corporations are never mentioned
> in the US Constitution. Free enterprise is never mentioned in the US
> Constitution. Conservatives somehow confound free enterprise with freedom.
> They are not necessary always compatible. I will not comment on the
> situation in the UK.
I'd like to see a source for that. Recent sources I've seen suggest that
the military spending is in the neighborhood of four percent of GNP, while
total government spending is in the neighborhood of thirty percent of GNP,
most of that in the bureaucracy of the Redistribution, the Departments of
Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Housing and Urban Development, Transportation,
Energy, Health, and Education [split from HEW]
America's abundance was not created by public sacrifices to 'the common
good,' but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own
personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes.
-- Ayn Rand
--
Dave
"Tam multi libri, tam breve tempus!"
(Et brevis pecunia.) [Et breve spatium.]
John Bonanno
"David C Kifer" <dki...@sky-access.com> wrote in message
news:c9h6v...@news3.newsguy.com...
> John Bonanno wrote:
>
> > It makes no difference whether government controls allegedly favor the
> > interests of labor or business, of the poor or the rich, of a special
class
> > or a special race: the results are the same. The notion that a
dictatorship
> > can benefit any one social group at the expense of others is a worn
remnant
> > of the Marxist mythology of class warfare, refuted by half a century of
> > factual evidence. All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship;
> > nobody wins-except the ruling clique.
> > - Ayn Rand
>
> Tell this to the Democratic Party, as they try to pander to every splinter
> minority they can possibly define.
At least they try to appeal to many people. The Republicans cater strictly
to the upper class whilst giving lip service for votes to the Christian
moralists. Ayn's "ruling clique" in the USA is Republican all the way.
Congress, The Executive and the courts are mostly Republicans now. And they
have no one to blame but themselves for the messes they deposit here and
there.
"A bureaucrat is the most despicable of men, though he is needed as vultures
are needed, but one hardly admires vultures whom bureaucrats so strangely
resemble. I have yet to meet a bureaucrat who was not petty, dull, almost
witless, crafty or stupid, an oppressor or a thief, a holder of little
authority in which he delights, as a boy delights in possessing a vicious
dog. Who can trust such creatures?" Cicero
Ah! Rummy Ah! Cheney Ah! Wolfy and all those duplicitous Straussians.
> > The taxes used to carry on wars exceeds that used for welfare programs
by
> > far. Our constitution tasks the federal government to pass laws for the
> > general welfare, not corporate interests. Corporations are never
mentioned
> > in the US Constitution. Free enterprise is never mentioned in the US
> > Constitution. Conservatives somehow confound free enterprise with
freedom.
> > They are not necessary always compatible. I will not comment on the
> > situation in the UK.
>
> I'd like to see a source for that. Recent sources I've seen suggest that
> the military spending is in the neighborhood of four percent of GNP, while
> total government spending is in the neighborhood of thirty percent of GNP,
> most of that in the bureaucracy of the Redistribution, the Departments of
> Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Housing and Urban Development,
Transportation,
> Energy, Health, and Education [split from HEW]
>
Estimates for the 2004 federal budget show military spending up to 19.6%
Debt service is way up (from negligable during the Clinton years) to 6.7%
Social welfare is 8.4%
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/2004-outlays-summary.php
> America's abundance was not created by public sacrifices to 'the common
> good,' but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own
> personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes.
> -- Ayn Rand
>
Rand was not kind to monopolists who squelched individual enterprise in her
books. I suspect she would not be pleased by the US corporate welfare model
we now see.
"When I say "capitalism," I mean a pure, uncontrolled, unregulated
laissez-faire capitalism - with a separation of economics, in the same way
and for the same reasons as a separation of state and church."
-- Ayn Rand, "The Objectivist Ethics," The Virtue of Selfishness
This is an unknown and unwanted ideal among American Capitalists.
Halliburton would not exist without the US Government.
John Bonanno
government to maximize profits and decrease competition. Even conservatives
decry Bush's corporate welfare schemes:
"According to Foster, when members of Congress and their staffers requested
his drug-benefit cost estimates, Scully threatened to sack him if he
complied.
"I felt a very strong responsibility on behalf of the public not to withhold
technical information that could be useful in this debate," Foster testified
before the House Ways and Means Committee on March 24. "I had a difficult
choice," he added. "I could ignore the orders. I knew I would get fired...I
considered that inappropriate and, in fact, unethical." "
"This shifty and dishonest behavior now also looks criminal."
"Democrats complain most loudly about this outrage. Republicans,
conservatives, and libertarians, however, should be at least as furious that
federal bureaucrats in a GOP administration used coercion and lies to
engineer a $534 billion expansion of the welfare state."
Deroy Murdock
http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200406010835.asp
Graham J Weeks
peace that has been hijacked by a tiny minority of extremists. They thus pass
up the opportunity to call for a worldwide reform of Islam that starts by
identifying the elements of Islam that give rise to violence and extremism and
finishes by repudiating those elements, so that Muslims and non-Muslims can
live in peace as equals. - Defeating Global Jihad: Reagan Showed the Way By
Robert Spencer FrontPageMagazine.com | June 7, 20049280 quotes, 632 topics, 2126 authors indexed, 769 links
John Bonanno
"Graham J Weeks" wrote:
Leaders and pundits must cling to fond fictions about Islam being a
religion of
> peace that has been hijacked by a tiny minority of extremists. They thus
pass
> up the opportunity to call for a worldwide reform of Islam that starts by
> identifying the elements of Islam that give rise to violence and extremism
and
> finishes by repudiating those elements, so that Muslims and non-Muslims
can
> live in peace as equals. - Defeating Global Jihad: Reagan Showed the Way
By
> Robert Spencer FrontPageMagazine.com | June 7, 2004
German soldiers wore the legend (and I do mean legend) "gott mit uns" on
their belt buckles in the two greatest wars known in the history of the
world. In World War II German Protestants and Catholics were in full
cooperation with the Nazis. Christians haven't distinguished themselves for
their love of peace since they were made the establishment religion by
Constantine, damned be he.
"The history of Christianity has been largely written in blood, the
blood of those whom it has sought to proselytize as well as that of those
Christians who did not share the theology or ambitions of the male clerical
oligarchy that has always wielded power in Christendom. This ignoble
distinction is not nor has it ever been the exclusive prerogative of any
particular denomination or sect; it is a living legacy of horror that is
tragically common to the Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox
bodies of Christian churches." John J. Dunphy
"Did these words come from the heart of love? -- "When the Lord thy
God shall
drive them before thee, thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy
them;
thou shalt make no covenant with them, or show mercy unto them."
"I will heap mischief upon them. I will send mine arrows upon them;
they shall
be burned with hunger and devoured with burning heat and with bitter
destruction."
"I will send the tooth of beasts upon them, with the poison of
serpents of the dust."
"The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young
man and the
virgin; the suckling also with the man of gray hairs."
"Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow; let his children
be continually
vagabonds and beg; let them seek their bread also out of their
desolate places;
let the extortioner catch all that he hath, and let the stranger spoil
his labor;
let there be none to extend mercy unto him, neither let there be any
to favor
his fatherless children." " Jehovah from his sacred book quoted by
Robert J. Ingersoll
alohacyberian
news:LcWdnQYxkMB...@adelphia.com...
> "The history of Christianity has been largely written in blood, the
> blood of those whom it has sought to proselytize as well as that of those
> Christians who did not share the theology or ambitions of the male clerical
>
Yeah, by all means we should judge today's Christianity by the way it was 500
to 1500 years ago while, hopefully being politically correct and excusing
today's Islamic extremists for the same excesses we use to condemn
Christians. KM
OBQ:
"The time will come when diligent research over long periods will bring to
light things which now lie hidden. A single lifetime, even though entirely
devoted to the sky, would not be enough for the investigation of so vast a
subject . . . And so this knowledge will be unfolded only through long
successive ages. There will come a time when our descendants will be amazed
that we did not know things that are so plain to them . . . Many discoveries
are reserved for ages still to come, when memory of us will have been
effaced. Our universe is a sorry little affair unless it has in it something
for every age to investigate . . . Nature does not reveal her mysteries once
and for all."
~ Seneca, _Natural Questions_, Book 7, 1st Century A. D.
There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing
love for all religions.
~ G.K. Chesterton
"These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed
except his own."
~ G. K. Chesterton
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/
Amazing Grace
think of either of them, but his wisdom of 2000 years ago is still good:
OBQ
As long as you live, keep learning how to live. Lucius Annaeus Seneca
alohacyberian wrote:
--
David C Kifer
> There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing
> love for all religions.
> ~ G.K. Chesterton
The city of Los Angeles may have to change its name.
Also, cities like San Francisco, San Diego, and Santa Barbara could be
looking for new monikers.
The reason?
They all have religious meaning in their names.
Los Angeles refers to the "City of Angels," while the others refer to names
of saints. In fact, the official name of Los Angeles is "The Town of Our Lady
the Queen of Angels of the Little Portion."
According to the Los Angeles Daily News, a strong legal argument could be made
to force municipal name changes, based on the argument the names violate the
so-called separation of church and state.
The issue is being raised in the wake of the decision this week by Los Angeles
County to remove a small cross from its official seal, as reported by
WorldNetDaily.
"That's absolutely right," Joerg Knipprath, a professor of constitutional law
at the Southwestern University School of Law, told the Daily News.
"The cross is a minor symbol on the county seal whereas Los Angeles is the
'City of Angels.' San Clemente, Santa Monica, Sacramento, San Francisco, etc.,
are all religious references. It's far-fetched at this point. I don't think
it's going to happen in the next ten years. But if somebody said ten or 20
years ago that we were going to challenge the Pledge of Allegiance or this
tiny little cross on the county seal, the argument would have been that was
far-fetched too."
Ironically, the most prominent image in the L.A. County seal is one of Pomona,
the pagan Roman goddess of fruits and nuts, though the American Civil Liberties
Union did not object to the goddess in its push to have the cross removed.
Douglas Kmiec, a constitutional law professor at Pepperdine University School
of Law, told the News based on its history, the ACLU or others will likely
challenge the mention of religion at graduations and the names of cities with
religious identification.
"The logic of the ACLU's reasoning would suggest that Santa Monica should be
renamed Monica, San Diego should be renamed Diego and on down the line," he
said. "Los Angeles is a similar reference to angels. The full title of Los
Angeles is a distinctly religious name."
--"Los Angeles name too godly for U.S.?"
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38933
Amazing Grace
It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of
separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with
such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential
points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a
corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded
against by an entire abstinence of the Government from interference in
any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and
protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others.
James Madison
Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation
between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I
have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has
done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater
purity the less they are mixed together . . . I cannot speak
particularly of any of the cases excepting that of Virginia, where it is
impossible to deny that religion prevails with more zeal and a more
exemplary priesthood than it ever did when established and patronized by
public authority. We are teaching the world the great truth, that
Governments do better without kings and nobles than with them. The merit
will be doubled by the other lesson: the Religion flourishes in greater
purity without, than with the aid of Government James Madison
We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the
duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be
directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The
religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and
conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to
exercise it as these may dictate. James Madison
David C Kifer wrote:
> alohacyberian wrote:
SNIP
> if somebody said ten or 20
years ago that we were going to challenge the Pledge of Allegiance or this
tiny little cross on the county seal, the argument would have been that was
far-fetched too."
SNIP
John Bonanno
"alohacyberian" expressed himself thusly:
> >
> Yeah, by all means we should judge today's Christianity by the way it was
500
> to 1500 years ago while, hopefully being politically correct and excusing
> today's Islamic extremists for the same excesses we use to condemn
> Christians. KM
Who is saying I excuse the Muslims? I merely comment on the Christian
obsession with holy war and desiring to do their god's work of judgement
for him.. Doing so you fit Muslim prejudices perfectly. Did not your Christ
beseech you thus?
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall
be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to
thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam
[is] in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine
own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy
brother's eye." (Matthew 7:1-5)
> OBQ:
> "The time will come when diligent research over long periods will bring to
> light things which now lie hidden. A single lifetime, even though
entirely
> devoted to the sky, would not be enough for the investigation of so vast a
> subject . . . And so this knowledge will be unfolded only through long
> successive ages. There will come a time when our descendants will be
amazed
> that we did not know things that are so plain to them . . . Many
discoveries
> are reserved for ages still to come, when memory of us will have been
> effaced. Our universe is a sorry little affair unless it has in it
something
> for every age to investigate . . . Nature does not reveal her mysteries
once
> and for all."
> ~ Seneca, _Natural Questions_, Book 7, 1st Century A. D.
Christians, for the most part, have had to be dragged kicking and screaming
through the portals of each significant discovery, their words proclaiming
Blasphemy and the collapse of Faith if so dragged. But many have retained
Faith, proving Faith a boundlessly stupid Virtue. Christians have
habitually parked their fat asses on Seneca's unfolding Knowledge.
"This is what I believe:
"That I am I.
That my soul is a dark forest.
That my known self will never be more than a little clearing in the
forest.
That gods, strange gods, come forth from the forest into the clearing
of my known self, and then go back.
That I must have the courage to let them come and go.
That I will never let mankind put anything over me, but that I will
try always to recognise and submit to the gods in me and the gods in other
men and women."
-- D.H. Lawrence
John Bonanno
"Amazing Grace" said:
> Somebody (James Madison) said something like this 200+ years ago
>
> It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of
> separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with
> such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential
> points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a
> corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded
> against by an entire abstinence of the Government from interference in
> any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and
> protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others.
> James Madison
This approach requires too much critical thought for conservatives. The
expression "on the other hand" is impossible for them to apply even in their
own minds. They fear sounding weak if they actually said such a thing in
discussion.
Is it not obvious that a Pledge of Allegiance that requires a significant
number of Americans to remain silent and bite their tounges for an oath that
would make them a slave to a superstition or even worse, a demon, is no
real Pledge, but a goad to rebellion.
"What has commonly been called rebellion has more often been nothing but a
manly and glorious struggle in opposition to the lawless power of rebellious
kings and princes." Samuel Adams
The Sanity Inspector
wrote!:
[...]
>"That's absolutely right," Joerg Knipprath, a professor of constitutional law
>at the Southwestern University School of Law, told the Daily News.
>"The cross is a minor symbol on the county seal whereas Los Angeles is the
>'City of Angels.' San Clemente, Santa Monica, Sacramento, San Francisco, etc.,
>are all religious references. It's far-fetched at this point. I don't think
>it's going to happen in the next ten years. But if somebody said ten or 20
>years ago that we were going to challenge the Pledge of Allegiance or this
>tiny little cross on the county seal, the argument would have been that was
>far-fetched too."
[...]
Meanwhile...
Under the 1991 Arbitration Act, sharia-based marriage, divorce
and family tribunals run by the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice are
expected to begin later this year. The move has so horrified many
Muslim women that they're vowing to stop the tribunals before they
start. [...]
"When you come to Canada, you are a human being with full
rights," says Jonathan Schrieder, a Toronto civil litigation lawyer.
Allowing sharia here — even a "Canadianized" version, as its
proponents claim — "will subject Muslim women to a huge injustice."
-- "Protest rises over Islamic law in Ontario", _Toronto
Star_, June 8 2004,
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1086646213053&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154
The Sanity Inspector
just wrote!:
>Somebody (James Madison) said something like this 200+ years ago
>
>It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of
>separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with
>such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential
>points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a [...]
Should that word be "usurpation"?
Obquote:
The finest words in the world are only vain sounds, if you
cannot comprehend them.
-- Anatole France
The Sanity Inspector
<adi...@reeemoooveadelphia.net> just wrote!:
>
>"Amazing Grace" said:
>> Somebody (James Madison) said something like this 200+ years ago
>>
>> It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of
>> separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with
>> such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential
>> points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a
>> corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded
>> against by an entire abstinence of the Government from interference in
>> any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and
>> protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others.
>> James Madison
>
>This approach requires too much critical thought for conservatives. The
>expression "on the other hand" is impossible for them to apply even in their
>own minds. They fear sounding weak if they actually said such a thing in
>discussion.
Well, there are exceptions to everything, you know. Here's the very
same thought as Madison's expressed by a prominent contemporary
Catholic conservative:
The problem, of course, is that neither [church nor state] is
prepared to remain within its institutional boundaries. Government,
if it is to be sustainable, engages beliefs and loyalties of an
ultimate sort that can properly be called religious. As the impulse
of the modern state is to define all public space as governmental
space, so the consequence is a tendency toward "civil religion."
Religion, on the other hand, if it represents a comprehensive belief
system, speaks to the human condition in all its aspects, including
the right ordering (the government) of public life....Thus each
institution is, in the eyes of the other, constantly bursting its
bounds. Therein is the foundation of the open-ended argument between
church and state. Open-ended, that is, so long as a society professes
to be democratic.
--Richard John Neuhaus, _The Naked Public Square_, 1984
The Sanity Inspector
<adi...@reeemoooveadelphia.net> just wrote!:
>"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Judge not, lest ye be judged judgmental.
-- Florence King
Graham J Weeks
John Bonanno wrote:
> "alohacyberian" expressed himself thusly:
> > >
> > Yeah, by all means we should judge today's Christianity by the way it was
> 500
> > to 1500 years ago while, hopefully being politically correct and excusing
> > today's Islamic extremists for the same excesses we use to condemn
> > Christians. KM
>
> Who is saying I excuse the Muslims? I merely comment on the Christian
> obsession with holy war and desiring to do their god's work of judgement
> for him.. Doing so you fit Muslim prejudices perfectly. Did not your Christ
> beseech you thus?
>
> "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall
> be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
> And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but
> considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to
> thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam
> [is] in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine
> own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy
> brother's eye." (Matthew 7:1-5)
No. What you do is throw in quotes critical of Christianity on a thread about
Islam. You are a fine one to quote about not judging. Your antipathy to
Christianity you shout from the housetops. One wonders why you protest so much?
>
>
> > OBQ:
> > "The time will come when diligent research over long periods will bring to
> > light things which now lie hidden. A single lifetime, even though
> entirely
> > devoted to the sky, would not be enough for the investigation of so vast a
> > subject . . . And so this knowledge will be unfolded only through long
> > successive ages. There will come a time when our descendants will be
> amazed
> > that we did not know things that are so plain to them . . . Many
> discoveries
> > are reserved for ages still to come, when memory of us will have been
> > effaced. Our universe is a sorry little affair unless it has in it
> something
> > for every age to investigate . . . Nature does not reveal her mysteries
> once
> > and for all."
> > ~ Seneca, _Natural Questions_, Book 7, 1st Century A. D.
>
> Christians, for the most part, have had to be dragged kicking and screaming
> through the portals of each significant discovery, their words proclaiming
> Blasphemy and the collapse of Faith if so dragged. But many have retained
> Faith, proving Faith a boundlessly stupid Virtue. Christians have
> habitually parked their fat asses on Seneca's unfolding Knowledge.
>
ObQ
All generalisations are wrong including this one.
alohacyberian
> "alohacyberian" expressed himself thusly:
> > >
> > Yeah, by all means we should judge today's Christianity by the way it was
> 500
> > to 1500 years ago while, hopefully being politically correct and excusing
> > today's Islamic extremists for the same excesses we use to condemn
> > Christians. KM
>
> beseech you thus?
>
"My" Christ? I trust you get exercize other than jumping to conclusions. KM
OBQ:
"The anger of the weak never goes away, Professor, it just gets a little
mouldy. It moulds like a beautiful blue cheese in the dark, growing stronger
and more interesting. The poor and the weak die with all their anger intact
and probably those angers go on growing in the dark of the grave like the
hair and the nails."
~ Marge Piercy, _Woman on the Edge of Time_
John Bonanno
"Graham J Weeks" squealed hurtfully:>
Squealing in complaint doesn't free you from the words of your god.
Oaths are binding, even when the god to whom you pledge does not exist.
"The old religion said 'Heaven help us!' Our new one, from its very lack of
that faith in a heaven, will teach us all the more to help one another."
George Eliot
"Flowers should be viewed when half open, wine should be drunk only to
subtle intoxication; there is great fun in this. If you view flowers in
full
bloom and drink to drunkenness, it becomes a bad experience. Those who are
living to the full should think about this." Huanchu Daoren, translated by
Thomas Cleary
SteveMR200
<cakms...@news4.newsguy.com>:
>The city of Los Angeles may have to change its name. . . The
>reason? . . . Los Angeles refers to the "City of Angels."
>--"Los Angeles name too godly for U.S.?"
>
>http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38933
"Los Angeles refers to City of Angels?! Fallen
angels, maybe. I otta know 'cause I live there."
--SteveMR200
(In a posting to alt.quotations, "Re: The
Jihad," [06/15/2004])
Hey AQ gang: How about that one for the ipsie-dixie file?
ObQuote:
Daniel:
Is this heaven?
Bob:
No, it isn't heaven.
Daniel:
Is it hell?
Bob:
Nope. It isn't hell, either. Actually, there is
no hell, although I hear Los Angeles is getting
pretty close.
(Dialogue between Daniel Miller (Albert Brooks)
and Bob Diamond (Rip Torn) in the film _Defending
Your Life_ [1991], directed by Albert Brooks.)
--
Steve
Amazing Grace
home.comcast.net/~rkamlet/madison.htm
and
www.atheists.org/courthouse/PledgeBrief
--
Amazing Grace
MOYERS: You said once that you felt the fundamentalists were trying to
restore God to the world.
ARMSTRONG: Yes, all fundamentalists feel that in a secular society, God
has been relegated to the margin, to the periphery and they are all in
different ways seeking to drag him out of that peripheral position, back
to center stage.
MOYERS: They drag God back into the political world by denying
democratic aspirations.
ARMSTRONG: Yes.
MOYERS: I mean, do you think democracy and fundamentalism are, uh, can
co-exist?
ARMSTRONG:Fundamentalists are not friends of democracy. And that
includes your fundamentalists in the United States.
From: http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_armstrong.html
The Sanity Inspector wrote:
--
Amazing Grace
ARMSTRONG: Well, there are some forms of religion that must make God
weep. There are some forms of religion that are bad, just as there's bad
cooking or bad art or bad sex, you have bad religion too. Religion that
has concentrated on egotism, that's concentrated on belligerence rather
than compassion.
John Bonanno wrote:
--
David C Kifer
> Is "unsurpastion" as spelled at:
>
>
> home.comcast.net/~rkamlet/madison.htm
> and
> www.atheists.org/courthouse/PledgeBrief
According to:
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/qmadison.htm
it is "usurpation", and this website also supplies a source one can check:
(Letter Rev. Jasper Adams, Spring 1832).
"unsurpastion" is not a word in any dictionary consulted by:
http://www.yourdictionary.com/
Amazing Grace
David C Kifer wrote:
> Amazing Grace wrote:
>
>> Is "unsurpastion" as spelled at:
>>
>>
>> home.comcast.net/~rkamlet/madison.htm
>> and
>> www.atheists.org/courthouse/PledgeBrief
>
>
> According to:
> http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/qmadison.htm
> it is "usurpation", and this website also supplies a source one can check:
> (Letter Rev. Jasper Adams, Spring 1832).
>
> "unsurpastion" is not a word in any dictionary consulted by:
> http://www.yourdictionary.com/
>
>
--
The Sanity Inspector
wrote!:
>On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:21:57 -0400, David C Kifer wrote in message:
><cakms...@news4.newsguy.com>:
>
>>The city of Los Angeles may have to change its name. . . The
>>reason? . . . Los Angeles refers to the "City of Angels."
>>--"Los Angeles name too godly for U.S.?"
>>
>>http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38933
>
>"Los Angeles refers to City of Angels?! Fallen
>angels, maybe. I otta know 'cause I live there."
> --SteveMR200
> (In a posting to alt.quotations, "Re: The
> Jihad," [06/15/2004])
>
>Hey AQ gang: How about that one for the ipsie-dixie file?
Rack him!
-- Jim Rome, to his radio show producer after particularly
good calls.
pyotr filipivich
<dki...@sky-access.com> fosted Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:21:57 -0400 on
alt.quotations , viz:
>alohacyberian wrote:
>
>> There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing
>> love for all religions.
>> ~ G.K. Chesterton
>
>
>The city of Los Angeles may have to change its name.
If can keep "L.A." if we change the name to "Lost Atheists".
--
pyotr filipivich
Most of the intelligentsia haven't studied history, so much
as they've absorbed the Correct Position on "History".
bpotts
ref. Seems there has been cut off since I ran Norton antivirus prog. Shall
see!! I noticed my own mails are not appearing for some reason but trust
your machine wiill pick this up.Assume it is because my own is filling up
with junk, but really don't know!! Complete novice. B. Potts
"pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:r6k4d0tsplmo8b41o...@4ax.com...
Graham J Weeks
John Bonanno wrote:
> "Graham J Weeks" ejaculated:
>
>
> > So it is not just on matters of religion that you are blind to what others
> > plainly see? If the poor lose welfare they lose everything.
> > Unless they are all in the black economy, on the fiddle or whatever it is
> > called, on your side of the pond.
>
> How conservative Christians choose the more convenient rigours of their
> religion!
>
> "Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that taketh away thy
> goods ask not again." Luke 6:30
>
> "In case some one of your brothers becomes poor among you in one of your
> cities, in your land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not
> harden your heart or be closefisted toward your poor brother. For you should
> generously open your hand to him and by all means lend him on pledge as much
> as he needs, which he is in want of... You should by all means give to him,
> and your heart should not be stingy in your giving to him, because on this
> account Jehovah your God will bless you in every deed of yours and in every
> undertaking of yours. For someone poor will never cease to be in the midst
> of the land. That is why I am commanding you, saying, 'You should generously
> open up your hand to your afflicted and poor brother in your land." (Deut
> 15:7-11).
The more the government take out of my pocket the less I have to share with
others.
I am always amazed that people would rather the government chose how their
wealth is distributed rather than take responsibility themselves.
> By the way, my ideas on welfare are not what you may suppose.
I suppose nothing at all about your ideas until you disclose them in your
posts. I have trouble enough with those let alone trying to read your mind.
> In the USA, so-called conservatives have increased the size of government,
> and government activism against the freedom of the people. They have
> increased foreign aid (welfare to dictators that more often than not
> ultimately goes to US corporations selling weapons) 50% since Clinton was
> President. The proof is in the pudding. As I stated in the beginning,
> conservatives who claim they are against big government are prevaricators.
> It is all theory and no practice. They love big government as long as it
> does what they like.
Here in London we have four levels of government, local, city, national and EU.
For a start I should love to lose two out of the four, namely the second and
the last.
Some of us really would like to roll back the state.
ObQ
Likewise, it's easy to see why the left fears Christians. People who worship
political power, who want government to direct (and thus control) all things,
who have effectively deified the state, cannot imagine anyone feeling
otherwise. Like Tolkein's Sauron, the thought that anyone would choose to
destroy the ring of power is beyond them. And because that power is today so
pervasive, they not only covet it, but cannot permit it's falling into the
hands of men with whom they disagree. - Rod D. Martin,TOWARD A CHRISTIAN
CULTURE July 2002
--
Graham J Weeks M.R.Pharm.S.
http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/ Graham's Homepage
9329 quotes 633 topics, 2156 authors indexed, 769 links
John Bonanno
"Graham J Weeks" wrote in message
SNIPPY
Yes conservatives would love to roll back the state, yet they never do.
What they really love is wealth. And what they represent is corporate
power, which is worse than government power. They only roll back the power
of the people through the government to control corporations. And
corporate power has a much more negative influence on our lives than
government power.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger
of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of
strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country. - Thomas Jefferson