Paranoid Myron and Bloggs, the ex Scientologists
Headstone
Paranoia - an unfounded or exaggerated distrust of others, sometimes
reaching delusional proportions. Paranoid individuals constantly
suspect the motives of those around them, and believe that certain
individuals, or people in general, are "out to get them."
ring any bells?
Randall D. Kelton
there.
Consider this: look at their behavior, isn't it familiar? That is the kind
of stuff we use to do in high school, especially the surprising dependence
on ad homoniem attacks when their straw men and red herring strategies fail
to produce and antagonistic response.
Look at the of others who do respond antagonistically. You can almost
predict the interchanges. You are stupid, you are ass, if you were such a
shit talker.
Assuming Myron is not fresh out of puberty, one we wonder why his methods of
argument haven't improved.
In fact, I think he is more sophisticated that we give him credit for. We
are looking at the kinds of responses he keep getting. He keeps getting
people to tell him what an ass he it and how stupid and incompetent he is.
Heck, he is good at getting those responses.
Since he is so consistent in the types of responses he elicits, it can't be
assumed he is other than well aware of what he is doing.
I could try to figure out why someone would try to get everyone to think he
was stupid and incompetent, but as Myron would quickly point out, that would
be mind reading. Besides, you simply can't know why someone does what they
do. Often their behavior is so automatic and pathological they don't have a
clue themselves.
What you can know is the outcomes they tend to consistently generate and
Myron keeps getting people to tell him what an ignorant ignoramus he is.
My real question is, for those of you skilled in NLP, why don't you
recognize this and if you do, why do you guys keep dancing with him and
letting him led you around by the nose? I would think it would quickly
become clear that what he says means nothing. He obviously only uses the
language to elicit response and the response he keeps trying to elicit is
getting people to treat him badly.
All I am saying is, there is more going on here than meets the conscious
eye.
"Headstone" <tombston...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1103389505....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Headstone
most with NLP skills have left to the other ng talk place and realised
that spending time talking to Bloggs etc is a waste of time and energy
lronhubb...@fastmail.to
going in
>there.
How about the asssertion that Blogg's and I are ex-Scientologist. You
didn't
subject that to your powerful calculus.
>Consider this: look at their behavior, isn't it familiar? That is the
kind
>of stuff we use to do in high school,
So in high school you _inter alia_:
-- were able to discuss the intellectual antecedents of NLP;
-- were able discuss Korzybski's "Science and Sanity";
-- were able to explain a model, metaphor, double-bind etc.
-- were able to provide an analysis of Bandler's behaviour
with respect to Lifton's model of cults and NPD;
-- were able to discuss NLP and how it relates to KE;
-- were able to dissect arguments and explain their flaws;
-- were able to quote peer reviewed literature;
-- were able to discuss matters of epistemology, philosophy of science
and the scientific method;
-- were able to discuss research design;
>especially the surprising dependence
>on ad homoniem attacks when their straw men and red herring strategies
fail
>to produce and antagonistic response.
There is no dependence on "ad homoiem" (sic) attacks. The Ad Hominem
is merely
seasoning. I have dealt with your posts in the "Annoyances as Assets"
thread
in detail. I have demonstrated all of the flaws in your thinking. You
were
unable to rebut my critique.
You were (easily) shown up through the application of simple logic and
critical analysis. Now you're crying foul.
>Look at the of others who do respond antagonistically. You can almost
>predict the interchanges. You are stupid, you are ass, if you were
such a
>shit talker.
No-one credible has responded in that way. No-one has called me
"stupid" or a "shit-talker". This is a figment of your over-active
imagintion. On the contrary, I have been complimented on my knowledge
and analytical abilities. I have had dialogues with Ross Jeffries,
Jonathan Altfeld, Elvis Keith Lester and other trainers. Find the
threads and read them.
>Assuming Myron is not fresh out of puberty, one we wonder why his
methods of
>argument haven't improved.
This is a question begging argument. You have yet to demonstrate that
my "methods of argument" are lacking.
>In fact, I think he is more sophisticated that we give him credit for.
We
>are looking at the kinds of responses he keep getting. He keeps
getting
>people to tell him what an ass he it and how stupid and incompetent he
is.
>Heck, he is good at getting those responses.
Who has told me that I'm "stupid and incompetent"? Assuming that I
have been
told I'm "stupid and incompetent", what of it? It would be a mere
assertion. Furthermore, I have been thanked for my intelligent
contribution both on the NG and in email by numerous indivduals.
>Since he is so consistent in the types of responses he elicits, it
can't be
>assumed he is other than well aware of what he is doing.
The response that I consistently achieve is the following:
-- the irritation of the pretenetious, the dishonest and the ignorant;
-- gratitude from people that have been ripped-off by charalatans;
-- gratitude from people that are offended by ignorance, obscurantism
and
anti-scientific posturing.
>I could try to figure out why someone would try to get everyone to
think he
>was stupid and incompetent,
This contains the presupposition that I am trying to get everyone to
think
I am stupid and incompetent. There is no evidence for this. Further,
your
use of "everyone" is evidence of your sloppy thinking.
> but as Myron would quickly point out, that would
>be mind reading.
It's mind-reading on the basis of a false presupposition. It is mental
masturbation _par excellence_.
>Besides, you simply can't know why someone does what they
>do.
This contradicts all of your verbiage in your other posts about
discovering
hidden agendas and discovering their motivations purely by
introspection.
>Often their behavior is so automatic and pathological they don't have
a
>clue themselves.
Like your fetish for mind-reading, your self-contradictory posts, your
confusionof your (warped) map with the territory, and your refusal to
accept correction.
>What you can know is the outcomes they tend to consistently generate
and
>Myron keeps getting people to tell him what an ignorant ignoramus he
is.
No, I don't. I am the last word on what on I do, how I do it and why I
do
it.
>My real question is, for those of you skilled in NLP, why don't you
>recognize this and if you do, why do you guys keep dancing with him
and
>letting him led you around by the nose?
This presupposes that you possess some skill which those "skilled in
NLP"
should also possess.
>I would think it would quickly
>become clear that what he says means nothing.
So when I explain to you the difference between an model and a metaphor
that
"means nothing"?
>He obviously only uses the
>language to elicit response and the response he keeps trying to elicit
is
>getting people to treat him badly.
So now your profound insight into my psyche is obvious to you. So by
implication what is obvious to your penetrating mind can be grasped by
those that are
"skilled in NLP". This is of course consistent with your status as an
"advanced" person with "sophisticated personal technologies".
Who treats me badly? In the process of debunking I will antagonise
others, so what? It would be naive to expect otherwise.
I've demolished all of your pretenensions (which you have revealed).
You
mentioned in at least two of your posts that you have been studying
psychology for 30 years. This is an affectation. Your presuppositions
which
I detailed (in my other posts) suggest that you consider yourself to be
a highly skilled communicator and covert hypnotiser and expert on human
behavior. Your presuppsoitions are congruent with your affected prose.
Hence I am quite
confident that you consider yourself to be a "wizard".
I exposed all of your pretensions and demonstrated your ignorance. A
component
of your self-identity has been disturbed. The dissonance is evident in
your
resistance to being corrected -- even about minor details.
Now you've abandoned all pretence to temperance and sobriety --
presumably
because your're anxious -- and have resorted to making things up. A
cursory
survey of my posts and the responses I have received will prove that
you
are simply lying and exaggerating.
>All I am saying is, there is more going on here than meets the
conscious
>eye.
Really? How do you know this?
What is behind your fetish for mind-reading?
lronhubb...@fastmail.to
No, none whatsoever.
Hookah
questions here about DHE, or unconscious installation, so they run away
to other NG to where they think they again have an audience of stupid
people they can talk down to because their condescending attitude is not
yet transparent to the audience yet.
We have time and time again demanded proof, yet nothing is forth coming.
If DHE and unconscious installation can not with stand scientific
scrutiny, then what then can one only assume? And again look at the
title of this thread, ex-scientologists, it is one thing to call someone
names like this, it is another thing to provide proof, I have asked for
proof several times, yet again, nothing forth coming. So now one can
only assume that the originator of this post is either blatantly stupid
or just another lying piece of shit. Like so many others, who can't back
up anything they say.
Time and time again Joe and Myron has posted issues of debate, none have
come forth with any scientific method of proof to validate anything
said. Now those trainers who spouted all the hoo haa has run off to
other NG, how sad. What can one only assume now that they have run away?
They leave behind stupid ass fuckers like this headstone person to
parrot nothing but dick breath insults.
Good Job NLP, you've created masters of blow hard.
UnKaH
Headstone wrote:
>most with NLP skills have left to the other ng talk place and realized
Hookah
Headstone
Could you be any less verbose?
Does this come from your background from you know where?
Randall D. Kelton
<lronhubb...@fastmail.to> wrote in message
news:1103421677.0...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
BigJiim
>If DHE
been there, done that loser-boy. Shall I get you a tutor?
>can not with stand scientific
>scrutiny,
Like you're "scientific scrutiny". You're probably still disecting frogs
>And again look at the
>title of this thread, ex-scientologists, it is one thing to call someone
>names like this, it is another thing to provide proof, I
he admitted he was a scientologist in his own post you moron.
>have asked for
>proof several times, yet again, nothing forth coming.
<yawn> what does the sci etology thread have to do with the DHE thread
loser-boy?
>now one can
>only assume
stupid assumption,
>hat the originator of this post is either blatantly stupid
>or just another lying piece of shit. Like so many others, who can't back
>up anything they say.
>
look who's talking..,
>Time and time again Joe and Myron has posted issues of debate, none have
>come forth with any scientific method of proof to validate anything
yawn again. Another 3d mild AD: to come forth. You've talked to one
scientist who agrees with your hullucination.
OH, is this the part where I'm supposed to argue 3D mild with you to create
controversy? To generate more sales as per the "Get Rich Now"
book you guys are reading?
Did you miss the chapter on having a viable product?
And you thought you were so clever in putting that by us,
my best
lronhubb...@fastmail.to
>>title of this thread, ex-scientologists, it is one thing to call
someone
>>names like this, it is another thing to provide proof, I
>he admitted he was a scientologist in his own post you moron.
Jimmy, you're the moron. Both Bloggs and I explicitly stated --
numerous times -- that we aren't and never have been Scientologists.
I am not nor have ever been a member of any cult, including the CoS.
This iddiot "headstone" is merely asserting that Bloggs and I are
Scientologists
without any evidence. Well, there is no evidence because the
accusation is
false.
If I were an ex-Scientologist I would admit it, as it would add to the
credibility of my denouncement of cults (including Bandlers).
So, once again. I am not a Scientiologist nor an ex-Scientologist.
BigJiim
>numerous times -- that we aren't and never have been Scientologists.
Sorry. Look at you headpost:
moron
lronhubb...@fastmail.to
You are a retard aren't you. So my email address which reads:"L Ron
Hubbard
is a nut" demonstrates that I'm an ex-Scientologist. Is that what
you're saying?
Hookah
(Snip)
Hookah
Could the idea ever occur to you that he is using that title in a sarcastic manner? or don't your control panel on your DHE bullshit box go to, think outside the box? Want to be a limited thinker, take a DHE course and get it unconsciously installed. Now was that an advertisement for DHE?
Tim
Joe Bloggs
"Headstone" <tombston...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1103389505....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Nope, unless you are referring to your deluusions that you cling to so
dearly here on apnlp
Joe Bloggs
flam'Altfeld defending Nick Hemp Kemps sock puppets et al?
Do you think it's funny that all of Nick's sock puppets disappeared soon
after they were unmasked? :-))
Jonathan defended Nick as if he was guilty of doing the same.
Do you think it were ever possible?
"Randall D. Kelton" <rke...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:AQ0xd.2805$9j5....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Joe Bloggs
So funny that your only "activity" on this group is in regards to chasing us
down. Kind of tells us all about you doesn't it John?
Joe Bloggs
mommy's favorite pastime.
<lronhubb...@fastmail.to> wrote in message
news:1103502056.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Joe Bloggs
<lronhubb...@fastmail.to> wrote in message
news:1103509596.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Jim is kind of special.
See his FAQ:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Big "Dolt" Jim aka James Harris FAQ.
Understand the reasoning behind James incoherent ramblings:
http://tinyurl.com/3q3rr
http://tinyurl.com/688s4
"Actually, Jimmikins, we have figured out -- you're not particularly smart,
and you're not particularly well-educated..."
http://tinyurl.com/3jqkm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joe Bloggs
<lronhubb...@fastmail.to> wrote in message
news:1103421677.0...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >Paranoia, somehow that doesn't fit. It is my opinion there is more
> going in
> >there.
>
> How about the asssertion that Blogg's and I are ex-Scientologist. You
> didn't
> subject that to your powerful calculus.
Gramps is busy reminiscing his adolescence years, yearning for the time that
his penis did as he asked it to do.
Joe Bloggs
are we on a crusade again Lumpy?
How was Dublin anyhow you fat balding weasel?
Joe Bloggs
"Hookah" <monst...@alltel.net> wrote in message news:wN6xd.455$VQ2...@fe39.usenetserver.com...
Randall D. Kelton
least have something to say.
"Joe Bloggs" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:62Qxd.9802$KO5.9461@clgrps13...
Randall D. Kelton
getting on with different handles and pretending to be someone else.
However, if I were going to do something like that, I would do it as a
mental experiment and really try to take on a different personality. To do
it so that you leave direct clues back to yourself sort of sound like "go
aheae, discredit me."
It surprised me that an NLP professional would find a need to express
himself in such a way and seemed so adolescent I stayed out of it.
"Joe Bloggs" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:k1Qxd.9801$KO5.9353@clgrps13...
Joe Bloggs
> Yes I read that stuff,
Really? Odd, you said in your first message *ever* to usenet (snicker) that
you didn't keep up with all the insult
hurls, and Jonathan flim flam Altfelds pathetically weak attempt was about 4
weeks ago. You began posting about 6-7 days ago IIRC. In another posting you
professed that you didn't know much about Myron's past history, but that
couldn't be true if you remember reading the retarded Altfeld series.
Something doesn't add up Gramps?! Should I consider mind reading and
hallucinatory secondary communications strategy? What was it...feel my solar
plexus, imagine myself back in highschool and wonder about my penis? Was
that your protocol for mind reading others intentions?!
Nah. You're just another tool. Another false id with no posting history,
that is well schooled in the dynamics that have been taking place here. You
just took a run at Myron and myself with a rather poorly organized attempt
to distract away, hoping we'd flame you instead of the real meat :-))
You're old news now, but you set yourself up that way with your story "old
guy" :-))
I've just weeded you out for good.
What was that?
"I hate it when he's right!!"
LOL.
Back to school pal.
Joe Bloggs
Getting your aliases confused or something? Ooops, there goes my deep dark
seeking for "secondary" motives, LOL.....
"Randall D. Kelton" <rke...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5ATxd.5837$9j5....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Randall D. Kelton
mistake. First time and you got to be there to see it. Lucky you.
"Joe Bloggs" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:YoZxd.4498$Y72.263@edtnps91...
Randall D. Kelton
out the newsgroup (ohhh, almost typed 'site.').
If it seemed I was referring to the specific content of the post, that was
my omission. I was simply referring generally to what I percieved as
negative postings.
"Joe Bloggs" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:HnZxd.4497$Y72.1279@edtnps91...
Joe Bloggs
eyes.
"Randall D. Kelton" <rke...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:f__xd.6080$9j5....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Joe Bloggs
Fiasco?
"Randall D. Kelton" <rke...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:u1%xd.6088$9j5....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Randall D. Kelton
but I must have came too late to catch what ever it was you guys keep
referring to.
"Joe Bloggs" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:EZ5yd.4639$Y72.3212@edtnps91...
Joe Bloggs
puppets (different email accounts) and
engaged in conversations with himself, mocking those who post anonymously
whilst doing the same himself. He was caught, denied it, then the evidence
mounted and there was no possible denial and he left with his tail between
his legs forever the shame of apnlp.
"Randall D. Kelton" <rke...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:npeyd.7127$RH4....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Headstone
Randall D. Kelton wrote:
> Paranoia, somehow that doesn't fit. It is my opinion there is more
going in
> there.
>
> Consider this: look at their behavior, isn't it familiar? That is
the kind
> of stuff we use to do in high school, especially the surprising
dependence
> on ad homoniem attacks when their straw men and red herring
strategies fail
> to produce and antagonistic response.
>
> Look at the of others who do respond antagonistically. You can
almost
> predict the interchanges. You are stupid, you are ass, if you were
such a
> shit talker.
>
> Assuming Myron is not fresh out of puberty, one we wonder why his
methods of
> argument haven't improved.
Myron seems a bit older than Joe and is probably employed unlike Joe
has a lot of disposable time on his hands probably running up his
parents internet bill!
>
> In fact, I think he is more sophisticated that we give him credit
for. We
> are looking at the kinds of responses he keep getting. He keeps
getting
> people to tell him what an ass he it and how stupid and incompetent
he is.
> Heck, he is good at getting those responses.
Yes but now many have become bored and the NLP trainers that used to
frequent here are posting elsewhere
>
> Since he is so consistent in the types of responses he elicits, it
can't be
> assumed he is other than well aware of what he is doing.
>
> I could try to figure out why someone would try to get everyone to
think he
> was stupid and incompetent, but as Myron would quickly point out,
that would
> be mind reading. Besides, you simply can't know why someone does
what they
> do. Often their behavior is so automatic and pathological they don't
have a
> clue themselves.
>
> What you can know is the outcomes they tend to consistently generate
and
> Myron keeps getting people to tell him what an ignorant ignoramus he
is.
>
> My real question is, for those of you skilled in NLP, why don't you
> recognize this and if you do, why do you guys keep dancing with him
and
> letting him led you around by the nose?
For this reason I suspect many have left to greener pastures and
certainly at least one other ng is doing great business with on topic
discussions
I would think it would quickly
> become clear that what he says means nothing. He obviously only uses
the
> language to elicit response and the response he keeps trying to
elicit is
> getting people to treat him badly.
>
> All I am saying is, there is more going on here than meets the
conscious
> eye.
>
Probably not. Joe is a mass of contradictions and has some real chips
on his shoulders and Myron is overly intellectual and verbose to the
extreme.
Randall D. Kelton
>
> Randall D. Kelton wrote:
> > Paranoia, somehow that doesn't fit. It is my opinion there is more
> going in
> > there.
> >
> > Consider this: look at their behavior, isn't it familiar? That is
> the kind
> > of stuff we use to do in high school, especially the surprising
> dependence
> > on ad homoniem attacks when their straw men and red herring
> strategies fail
> > to produce and antagonistic response.
> >
> > Look at the of others who do respond antagonistically. You can
> almost
> > predict the interchanges. You are stupid, you are ass, if you were
> such a
> > shit talker.
> >
> > Assuming Myron is not fresh out of puberty, one we wonder why his
> methods of
> > argument haven't improved.
>
>
> Myron seems a bit older than Joe and is probably employed unlike Joe
> has a lot of disposable time on his hands probably running up his
> parents internet bill!
> >
demonstrates characteristics consistant with someone still angry at
authority and trying to find himslef. But Myron, that is a different cettle
of fish altogether. A couple of guy have implied they are the same person,
possibly, but I doubt it. If that is so, the imposter is more sophisticated
than we have given either creidt for.
I agree Joe is a mess, but Myron, when not on a tare, I have found to be
cogent and insightful. He has a sharp edge, but I find a sophistication
there I certainly like. In spite of the tendency to toss insults, I have
come to trust the underlying judgements.
Joe Bloggs
> > Myron seems a bit older than Joe and is probably employed unlike Joe
> > has a lot of disposable time on his hands probably running up his
> > parents internet bill!
> I tend to agree with this assessment. If Joe is not an adolescent, he
> demonstrates characteristics consistant with someone still angry at
> authority and trying to find himslef.
LOL. Given the quality of your mind reads to date....
>But Myron, that is a different cettle
> of fish altogether. A couple of guy have implied they are the same
person,
> possibly, but I doubt it.
We have different IP's, those "couple of guys" were Jayroni and Nick
Kemp...who were in fact the same
person that headstone has tried feebly to defend. Give you some clues as to
their "secondary" communication
gramps? For someone who is trying hard to gain credibility here, you've
certainly affiliated with the most
un-credible people and their ideas.
> > For this reason I suspect many have left to greener pastures and
> > certainly at least one other ng is doing great business with on topic
> > discussions
Consider that you believe there are geener pastures with on topic
discussions. That is a funny one since you've
demonstrated only the need to troll the users on this group. Speaks volumes
about your motivations doesn't
it Lumpy? You've clearly become rattled. That makes me smile.
UnKaH
those whom you claim are paranoid?
I don't believe, and I am sure Joe and Myron also believes, that none of
you are out to get us.
Of course we suspect the motives of certain people whom we have been
asking legitimate questions too, since none of the questions have been
debated, or even an answer, and answer, forth coming.
I believe that DHE has changed my life is not an answer, it's a gross
generalization with no content.
So the question really is, are we paranoid or skeptical of claims made
about DHE. Since we really don't fit the criteria of your definition, I
think skeptical is the word for the day. And according to your
definition, your the one's who are paranoid. Don't give it another thought.
I'm not the one hiding in the bushes waiting to ambush you, your thought
process is.
Tim
UnKaH
So basically what your saying is that since you can't debate Myron or fool Joe, your directing people attention away from that, and just resorting to name calling. Hoping that people are as stupid as you are and not see what is plainly apparent.
Tim
(snip) Probably not. Joe is a mass of contradictions and has some real chips on his shoulders and Myron is overly intellectual and verbose to the extreme.
Randall D. Kelton
"UnKaH" <monst...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:2MFzd.1584$3f3....@fe39.usenetserver.com...