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Jesus of Arcadia
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M Winther
Nov 2, 2011, 4:54:33 AM11/2/11
to
Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
Iesos, whose name also exists in the forms Iasos and Ieson, which is
a Greek form of the Latin 'Jesus'. Iesos of Arcadia is said to have
lived around 1400 BC., and there are striking similarities with the
life of Jesus. He was a son of Zeus and the virgin Elektra, daughter
of king Atlas (however, according to certain genealogical trees, king
Oedipus is father). Iesos, the god-man, was elected by Zeus to convey
the divine truth to humanity. He preached the message of love and
performed miracles, such as faith-healing of people. As a consequence
of losing his chastity, he fell victim to treason and was killed. But
Zeus took pity on his son and lifted him up to the Olymp.
At the advent of Christianity his cult was on the downgrade, but he
was still worshipped on certain island in the Greek archipelago when
the Christian missionaries arrived there. One can say that they were
ripe to hear the message of Christ, i.e. a more serious version of
their old faith. 300 years later the whole Roman empire belonged to
the Christian faith. It is possible to argue that the success of the
Christian message in the pagan world was due to a long-standing
preparatory stage during which they adhered to beliefs proximate to
the Christian belief. To the Celts and the Teutons, the story of the
suffering king whose death brings blessing upon humanity, who hangs
upon a tree penetrated by a spear, was nothing new.
This old myth gave rise to the medieval heresy of the "Jesus of
Arcadia", or the Aryan Christ. The well-known dictum, 'Et in Arcadia
Ego', in Poussin's painting, is believed to have something to do with
this heresy. Some saw Hitler as the Aryan Christ. Richard Noll fastens
this label on C.G. Jung.
I think of this Jesus of Arcadia as an archetype that slowly matured
and was ripe for general consciousness at the beginning of the
Christian era. It is not a heresy. It confirms that the Christian myth
is deeply rooted in human psychology, and that people had for
centuries longed for the Christian revelation at the time of its
advent. The Graeco-Roman version, however, wasn't real enough. It had
this fairytale character typical of Graeco-Roman religion. Greek
culture had a penchant for the abstract, as typified by the Greek
philosophers, including Plato. Jewish culture, however, was more
oriented towards concrete realization, not to philosophize but to make
things manifest.
Mats Winther
Iesos, whose name also exists in the forms Iasos and Ieson, which is
a Greek form of the Latin 'Jesus'. Iesos of Arcadia is said to have
lived around 1400 BC., and there are striking similarities with the
life of Jesus. He was a son of Zeus and the virgin Elektra, daughter
of king Atlas (however, according to certain genealogical trees, king
Oedipus is father). Iesos, the god-man, was elected by Zeus to convey
the divine truth to humanity. He preached the message of love and
performed miracles, such as faith-healing of people. As a consequence
of losing his chastity, he fell victim to treason and was killed. But
Zeus took pity on his son and lifted him up to the Olymp.
At the advent of Christianity his cult was on the downgrade, but he
was still worshipped on certain island in the Greek archipelago when
the Christian missionaries arrived there. One can say that they were
ripe to hear the message of Christ, i.e. a more serious version of
their old faith. 300 years later the whole Roman empire belonged to
the Christian faith. It is possible to argue that the success of the
Christian message in the pagan world was due to a long-standing
preparatory stage during which they adhered to beliefs proximate to
the Christian belief. To the Celts and the Teutons, the story of the
suffering king whose death brings blessing upon humanity, who hangs
upon a tree penetrated by a spear, was nothing new.
This old myth gave rise to the medieval heresy of the "Jesus of
Arcadia", or the Aryan Christ. The well-known dictum, 'Et in Arcadia
Ego', in Poussin's painting, is believed to have something to do with
this heresy. Some saw Hitler as the Aryan Christ. Richard Noll fastens
this label on C.G. Jung.
I think of this Jesus of Arcadia as an archetype that slowly matured
and was ripe for general consciousness at the beginning of the
Christian era. It is not a heresy. It confirms that the Christian myth
is deeply rooted in human psychology, and that people had for
centuries longed for the Christian revelation at the time of its
advent. The Graeco-Roman version, however, wasn't real enough. It had
this fairytale character typical of Graeco-Roman religion. Greek
culture had a penchant for the abstract, as typified by the Greek
philosophers, including Plato. Jewish culture, however, was more
oriented towards concrete realization, not to philosophize but to make
things manifest.
Mats Winther
Jantero
Nov 2, 2011, 8:08:15 PM11/2/11
to
On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:
> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
> Iesos,
Where are your source cites for what you have here?
> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
> Iesos,
Ac. Abhidevananda Avadhuta
Nov 3, 2011, 2:25:16 AM11/3/11
to
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:08:15 -0600, Jantero <jante...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:
>> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
>> Iesos,
>
>Where are your source cites for what you have here?
Most of what is said about Jesus seems to be imaginary. So, in the
spirit of "all things to all men", why not let the Aryan supremacists
have an Aryan Jesus? Obviously, it pains them greatly to think that
they would be worshipping a brown-skinned Middle-Easterner.
wrote:
>On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:
>> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
>> Iesos,
>
>Where are your source cites for what you have here?
spirit of "all things to all men", why not let the Aryan supremacists
have an Aryan Jesus? Obviously, it pains them greatly to think that
they would be worshipping a brown-skinned Middle-Easterner.
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 3, 2011, 6:44:49 AM11/3/11
to
On Nov 2, 8:08 pm, Jantero <jantero...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:
>
> > Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
> > Iesos,
>
> Where are your source cites for what you have here?
Google << "Jasus" Arcadia >>(quotes are required). father of Io.
> On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:
>
> > Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
> > Iesos,
>
> Where are your source cites for what you have here?
Jesus in Greek is Ie:sous (with eta), which appears as a transcription
of Late Biblical Hebrew ye:*sh*u:(a)3 which in turn is a phonetic
development of of y&hu:*sh*u:(a)3 "Joshua". the Hebrew etymology is
alluded to in the Gospels. it was a common name in 1st cent.
Palestine.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bryn
Nov 3, 2011, 7:13:18 AM11/3/11
to
joining of two separate myths. One of the Jewish Messiah and the the
Krishna birth story that which found its way to Rome...
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 3, 2011, 12:35:16 PM11/3/11
to
for "Messiah" (for "annointed")
Bryn
Nov 3, 2011, 1:13:43 PM11/3/11
to
It means 'he who delivers', 'the deliverer', 'the messiah'
8=]
Bryn
Nov 3, 2011, 3:22:19 PM11/3/11
to
It means 'he who delivers', 'the deliverer', 'the messiah'
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_Latin_word_for_Christ#ixzz1cfiS7400
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 3, 2011, 4:34:10 PM11/3/11
to
Aramaic, as does Greek Khristos. latin borrowed it from the Greek.
ye:*sh*u:(a)3 means "saves"", "delivers" in Aramaic and Hebrew, though
it is really a development from y&hu:*sh*u:(a)3 "Yahu (Yahweh) is
salvation"
James Hogg
Nov 3, 2011, 6:16:03 PM11/3/11
to
derivative is "chrism", meaning the oil or unction used for anointing.
--
James
Jantero
Nov 3, 2011, 8:19:05 PM11/3/11
to
On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:.
> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
> Iesos, whose name also exists in the forms Iasos and Ieson, which is
> a Greek form of the Latin 'Jesus'. Iesos of Arcadia is said to have
> lived around 1400 BC., and there are striking similarities with the
> life of Jesus.
I'll tell you something else that's interesting, looking in The Oxford
Companion to World Mythology, Leeming, 2005, there is no reference to
any of the names that you give above, except "Jesus", and within that
article there are no references to the mythic predecessors with name
spellings you give above.
Going to Google scholar, doing a search on those names yields nothing
consistent with what you posted.
Isn't that interesting?
> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
> Iesos, whose name also exists in the forms Iasos and Ieson, which is
> a Greek form of the Latin 'Jesus'. Iesos of Arcadia is said to have
> lived around 1400 BC., and there are striking similarities with the
> life of Jesus.
Companion to World Mythology, Leeming, 2005, there is no reference to
any of the names that you give above, except "Jesus", and within that
article there are no references to the mythic predecessors with name
spellings you give above.
Going to Google scholar, doing a search on those names yields nothing
consistent with what you posted.
Isn't that interesting?
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 3, 2011, 9:50:34 PM11/3/11
to
"Jasos" (putting in the quotes so that Google doesn't "correct" it as
"Jesus" ) you will get a result in Google books and it will tell you
that he was the father of Io. nothing to do with Jesus, historical or
mythic.
>
> Isn't that interesting?
Jantero
Nov 3, 2011, 11:10:13 PM11/3/11
to
>
>>
>> Isn't that interesting?
>
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 4, 2011, 12:14:37 AM11/4/11
to
>
>
> >> Isn't that interesting?
M Winther
Nov 4, 2011, 3:08:53 AM11/4/11
to
"Jantero" <jante...@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:j8vb1p$mn1$1...@dont-email.me...
The Oxford Companion to World Mythology covers only a fragment of
world mythology. I read about this in a library book. I copied the
relevant parts. I will try to find these pages that I have tucked away
somewhere. Iesos is a variant of Greek Iesous, meaning "God is
salvation." When googling, Iasos seems to be the most common form.
"Iasos of Arcadia" yields 6 hits in Google. But there are several
Iasos in Greek mythology. I am speaking of the Iasos who was the son
of Zeus and Electra. We find a reference to him on this German
Wikipedia page:
"Iasos (Sohn des Zeus), ein Sohn des Zeus und der Elektra"
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iasos
So he was the son of the sun god Zeus and the virgin Electra. If you
go to Google Books and search 'iasos zeus cult', there is a reference
to this cult in a book Zeus: A Study in Ancient Religion by AvA. B.
Cook. Evidently, one must dig deep and make an effort to find the
references to this Iesos (Iesios, Iasos) of Arcadia. Presumably, yet
another Jesus, son of God, is a sensitive matter.
Mats Winther
news:j8vb1p$mn1$1...@dont-email.me...
world mythology. I read about this in a library book. I copied the
relevant parts. I will try to find these pages that I have tucked away
somewhere. Iesos is a variant of Greek Iesous, meaning "God is
salvation." When googling, Iasos seems to be the most common form.
"Iasos of Arcadia" yields 6 hits in Google. But there are several
Iasos in Greek mythology. I am speaking of the Iasos who was the son
of Zeus and Electra. We find a reference to him on this German
Wikipedia page:
"Iasos (Sohn des Zeus), ein Sohn des Zeus und der Elektra"
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iasos
So he was the son of the sun god Zeus and the virgin Electra. If you
go to Google Books and search 'iasos zeus cult', there is a reference
to this cult in a book Zeus: A Study in Ancient Religion by AvA. B.
Cook. Evidently, one must dig deep and make an effort to find the
references to this Iesos (Iesios, Iasos) of Arcadia. Presumably, yet
another Jesus, son of God, is a sensitive matter.
Mats Winther
M Winther
Nov 4, 2011, 3:39:22 AM11/4/11
to
"M Winther" <ml...@swipnet.se> skrev i meddelandet
news:4eb38f8b$0$4003$c83e...@weathergirl-read.tele2.net...
According to this page ( http://www.gottwein.de/Myth/MythI2.php ) a
certain Iasos is "Identisch mit Iasion (Hes.theog.970; Verg.Aen.3,167;
Ov.am.3,10,25)" Iasion was introduced to the mysteries by Zeus
himself, and became a director of the mysteries.
From http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Iasion.html :
Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 5. 48. 2 ff (trans. Oldfather)
(Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"There were born in that land [of Samothrake] to Zeus and Elektra, who
was one of the Atlantides, Dardanos and Iasion and Harmonia . . . Zeus
desired that the other of his two sons [Iasion] might also attain
honour, and so he instructed him in the initiatory rites of the
mysteries [of Samothrake], which had existed on the island since
ancient times but was at that time, so to speak, put in his hands; it
is not lawful, however, for any but the initiated to hear about the
mysteries. And Iasion is reputed to have been the first to initiate
strangers into them and by this means to bring the initiatory rite to
high esteem.
[...]
Now the details of the initiatory rite are guarded among the matters
not to be divulged and are communicated to the initiates alone; but
the fame has travelled wide of how these gods [the Kabeiroi, Cabiri]
appear to mankind and bring unexpected aid to those initiates of their
who call upon them in the midst of perils. The claim is also made that
men who have taken part in the mysteries become both more pious and
more just and better in every respect than they were before..."
The conclusion is that there seems to have existed a Iasos (Iason,
Iasion, Iesios, Iesous, Iesos), son of Zeus and Elektra, who went
about and introduced strangers into the mysteries, which made them
pious. This Iasos seem to have been killed and uplifted to the starry
firmament by Zeus. It is possible that the book that I have in mind
has made too much of the likeness with the Christian myth, however.
Anyway, the medievals perceived this figure as the "Jesus of Arcadia",
although the original Iasos is probably not very significant. In a
similar vein, the ancient god Hermes developed into the medieval
Mercurius, a very profound divinity, compared with the original
shepherd god. Divinities develop and grow to maturity.
Mats Winther
news:4eb38f8b$0$4003$c83e...@weathergirl-read.tele2.net...
certain Iasos is "Identisch mit Iasion (Hes.theog.970; Verg.Aen.3,167;
Ov.am.3,10,25)" Iasion was introduced to the mysteries by Zeus
himself, and became a director of the mysteries.
From http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Iasion.html :
Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 5. 48. 2 ff (trans. Oldfather)
(Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"There were born in that land [of Samothrake] to Zeus and Elektra, who
was one of the Atlantides, Dardanos and Iasion and Harmonia . . . Zeus
desired that the other of his two sons [Iasion] might also attain
honour, and so he instructed him in the initiatory rites of the
mysteries [of Samothrake], which had existed on the island since
ancient times but was at that time, so to speak, put in his hands; it
is not lawful, however, for any but the initiated to hear about the
mysteries. And Iasion is reputed to have been the first to initiate
strangers into them and by this means to bring the initiatory rite to
high esteem.
[...]
Now the details of the initiatory rite are guarded among the matters
not to be divulged and are communicated to the initiates alone; but
the fame has travelled wide of how these gods [the Kabeiroi, Cabiri]
appear to mankind and bring unexpected aid to those initiates of their
who call upon them in the midst of perils. The claim is also made that
men who have taken part in the mysteries become both more pious and
more just and better in every respect than they were before..."
The conclusion is that there seems to have existed a Iasos (Iason,
Iasion, Iesios, Iesous, Iesos), son of Zeus and Elektra, who went
about and introduced strangers into the mysteries, which made them
pious. This Iasos seem to have been killed and uplifted to the starry
firmament by Zeus. It is possible that the book that I have in mind
has made too much of the likeness with the Christian myth, however.
Anyway, the medievals perceived this figure as the "Jesus of Arcadia",
although the original Iasos is probably not very significant. In a
similar vein, the ancient god Hermes developed into the medieval
Mercurius, a very profound divinity, compared with the original
shepherd god. Divinities develop and grow to maturity.
Mats Winther
Jantero
Nov 4, 2011, 8:15:45 PM11/4/11
to
nothing to do with supernatural beings or myth systems.
The source I quoted is reliable about many hundreds of *actual* myth
systems versus ones conjured up for various reasons by various persons.
Dan Brown is just one example of how mangled and invented the subject of
mythology has been.
Various actual ancient myths involve virgin birth, having a "god" as a
father, ability to raise the dead, ability to do miracle cures, and
claims of rising from the dead -- all of these are similar to story
elements found in various Mediterranean mythologies (Egyptian,
Mesopotamian, Roman etc. gods/myths) that existed long before the Jesus
mythology.
The jesus myth is just an unoriginal gathering of pre-existing myth
elements. I don't think it's likely that some nearly exact predeccesor
figure with a similar name ever existed.
Jantero
Nov 4, 2011, 8:16:03 PM11/4/11
to
On 11/3/2011 10:32 PM, Roge wrote:
> "Jantero"<jante...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:j8vb1p$mn1$1...@dont-email.me...
> Hi,
> I have been interested in this recently and the Jesus myth seems to be
> conected to Dia Esos,
> Esos Trigerranos, the celtic god and epona the horse goddess.
> Stonehenge,genesis,the trojan war,the new testament,king arthur all have
> elements to do with
> the celtic kings.
> Roge
There are a lot of reoccurring themes in various myth systems,
particularly Medditeranean ones.
The only relevant claim for Jesus' actual existence is in writings done
decades after his supposed death, and these writings include obviously
nonfactual claims including virgin birth, having a "god" as his father,
ability to raise the dead, ability to do miracle cures, and a claim of
this "Jesus" rising from the dead -- all of these are similar to story
> "Jantero"<jante...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:j8vb1p$mn1$1...@dont-email.me...
> I have been interested in this recently and the Jesus myth seems to be
> conected to Dia Esos,
> Esos Trigerranos, the celtic god and epona the horse goddess.
> Stonehenge,genesis,the trojan war,the new testament,king arthur all have
> elements to do with
> the celtic kings.
> Roge
There are a lot of reoccurring themes in various myth systems,
particularly Medditeranean ones.
The only relevant claim for Jesus' actual existence is in writings done
decades after his supposed death, and these writings include obviously
nonfactual claims including virgin birth, having a "god" as his father,
ability to raise the dead, ability to do miracle cures, and a claim of
this "Jesus" rising from the dead -- all of these are similar to story
M Winther
Nov 5, 2011, 2:40:33 AM11/5/11
to
"Jantero" <jante...@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:j91v7h$i8i$1...@dont-email.me...
a god, and who are of the dying-resurrecting type: Osiris, Tammuz,
Adonis, Attis, etc. Evidently, there existed one, arguably
insignificant, whose name was Iasos, the son of Zeus and Electra. So
it is very evident that such a mythological figure existed, whose name
was Jesus! But it is no great wonder. Jesus of Nazareth's real name
wasn't Jesus, but probably it was Joshua or Jeshua. This derives from
Hebrew Yehoshua which means "Jehovah is salvation". It is normally
argued that Jesus means "God is salvation". It is justified only if we
view "Jesus" as merely a translation of "Joshua". However, "Jesus"
really means something else as it is really a Greek name. So, in
reality, Iasos of Arcadia and Yehoshua ben Yosef have different names.
Concerning Jesus of Nazareth. To me, he appears very authentic,
especially when he cruelly tells his mother and brothers to go to hell
when they express worriment about his safety (Matthew 12:48, Luke
2:51, John 19:25-27) . I know of hardly any historical documents that
appear so authentic. Comparatively, Julius Caesar appears like a
fictional figure, lacking in normal human characteristics. One only
gets to hear about his visions and his accomplishments. Jesus,
however, expresses deep angst at his approaching death sentence.
Mats Winther
Jantero
Nov 5, 2011, 11:29:03 AM11/5/11
to
When asked for source cites on this "Jesus of Arcadia" you could provide
nothing specific about any "Jesus of Arcadia".
Why don't you come back when you have found reliable cites that support
your mention of this specific " Jesus of Arcadia".
*Hemidactylus*
Nov 5, 2011, 12:00:08 PM11/5/11
to
On 11/05/2011 02:40 AM, M Winther wrote:
[snip]
> Concerning Jesus of Nazareth. To me, he appears very authentic,
> especially when he cruelly tells his mother and brothers to go to hell
> when they express worriment about his safety (Matthew 12:48, Luke
> 2:51, John 19:25-27) . I know of hardly any historical documents that
> appear so authentic. Comparatively, Julius Caesar appears like a
> fictional figure, lacking in normal human characteristics. One only
> gets to hear about his visions and his accomplishments. Jesus,
> however, expresses deep angst at his approaching death sentence.
Beavis and Butthead are teenage boys who have an obsession with
"scoring". And they watch way too much television. These typical
adolescent male qualities give B&B a level of authenticity that proves
they are actually real people, since fiction could never depict an
apparent authenticity. Thanks Mats, you have helped me prove that Beavis
and Butthead must have existed before and are not just cartoon characters.
OTOH situations in so-called "reality" shows are so contrived that I
doubt people like Snooki and The Situation could actually have existed.
They are the equivalent of your "Julius Caesar".
[snip]
> Concerning Jesus of Nazareth. To me, he appears very authentic,
> especially when he cruelly tells his mother and brothers to go to hell
> when they express worriment about his safety (Matthew 12:48, Luke
> 2:51, John 19:25-27) . I know of hardly any historical documents that
> appear so authentic. Comparatively, Julius Caesar appears like a
> fictional figure, lacking in normal human characteristics. One only
> gets to hear about his visions and his accomplishments. Jesus,
> however, expresses deep angst at his approaching death sentence.
"scoring". And they watch way too much television. These typical
adolescent male qualities give B&B a level of authenticity that proves
they are actually real people, since fiction could never depict an
apparent authenticity. Thanks Mats, you have helped me prove that Beavis
and Butthead must have existed before and are not just cartoon characters.
OTOH situations in so-called "reality" shows are so contrived that I
doubt people like Snooki and The Situation could actually have existed.
They are the equivalent of your "Julius Caesar".
M Winther
Nov 5, 2011, 1:28:29 PM11/5/11
to
"Jantero" <jante...@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:j93knv$p7u$1...@dont-email.me...
Arcadia", and you will see that he exists in mythology. Moreover,
Iason and Iasos are simply different forms of the same name. It's like
Peter and Pete in English, or John and Johnny. Had you been a student
of mythology, then you would have known that mythology is an inexact
science, nothing like particle physics. The genealogical trees are
very confusing, with conflicting information. Mythology is *alive*, it
is always growing. Jesus of Arcadia exists because the medievals and
the Knights Templar allowed this mythological figure to grow. Later,
the Teutonic Knights continued the tradition. In the modern time the
racial ideologian Josef (Georg) Lanz von Liebenfels revived the idea
of the Aryan Christ. But this has given it a bad repute. Anyway, Jesus
of Arcadia is a figure that represents an undercurrent in medieval
history. It seems like this figure played a role in certain heretic
movements. Today, we don't view it as very controversial, but in
medieval times people could be burnt at the stake for uttering such
secrets. That's what's behind the secrecy of Pouissin's "Et in Arcadia
Ego". Also in Arcadia am I: Jesus.
Mats Winther
M Winther
Nov 5, 2011, 2:31:29 PM11/5/11
to
impression, but Jesus makes a very sincere impression. Comparatively,
Julius Caesar, when going ashore on the African continent, happened to
fall on the gangway. With his hands on the ground he said: "Africa, I
hold you fast!"
That's equally ridiculous as Beavis and Butthead. Hence it makes an
unauthentic impression, unlike the many convincing episodes in the
bible.
Mats Winther
Jantero
Nov 5, 2011, 2:53:40 PM11/5/11
to
On 11/5/2011 11:28 AM, M Winther wrote:
>
> Jesus is the latin version of greek Iasos. Search for "Iasos of
> Arcadia", and you will see that he exists in mythology.
As I previously posted, I already have done that, and found nothing.
>
> Jesus is the latin version of greek Iasos. Search for "Iasos of
> Arcadia", and you will see that he exists in mythology.
If there are any credible academic cites to give on "Jesus of Arcadia",
why don't you just give them?
Is it because you can't?
*Hemidactylus*
Nov 5, 2011, 2:54:25 PM11/5/11
to
On 11/05/2011 01:28 PM, M Winther wrote:
[snip]
> Jesus is the latin version of greek Iasos. Search for "Iasos of
> Arcadia", and you will see that he exists in mythology. Moreover,
> Iason and Iasos are simply different forms of the same name. It's like
> Peter and Pete in English, or John and Johnny. Had you been a student
> of mythology, then you would have known that mythology is an inexact
> science, nothing like particle physics. The genealogical trees are
> very confusing, with conflicting information. Mythology is *alive*, it
> is always growing. Jesus of Arcadia exists because the medievals and
> the Knights Templar allowed this mythological figure to grow. Later,
> the Teutonic Knights continued the tradition. In the modern time the
> racial ideologian Josef (Georg) Lanz von Liebenfels revived the idea
> of the Aryan Christ. But this has given it a bad repute. Anyway, Jesus
> of Arcadia is a figure that represents an undercurrent in medieval
> history. It seems like this figure played a role in certain heretic
> movements. Today, we don't view it as very controversial, but in
> medieval times people could be burnt at the stake for uttering such
> secrets. That's what's behind the secrecy of Pouissin's "Et in Arcadia
> Ego". Also in Arcadia am I: Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_%28name%29
[quote] The word Jesus used in the New Testament comes from the Latin
form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua
(ישוע), also used as Joshua or Yesua. [/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iasos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iasos_%28musician%29
[snip]
> Jesus is the latin version of greek Iasos. Search for "Iasos of
> Arcadia", and you will see that he exists in mythology. Moreover,
> Iason and Iasos are simply different forms of the same name. It's like
> Peter and Pete in English, or John and Johnny. Had you been a student
> of mythology, then you would have known that mythology is an inexact
> science, nothing like particle physics. The genealogical trees are
> very confusing, with conflicting information. Mythology is *alive*, it
> is always growing. Jesus of Arcadia exists because the medievals and
> the Knights Templar allowed this mythological figure to grow. Later,
> the Teutonic Knights continued the tradition. In the modern time the
> racial ideologian Josef (Georg) Lanz von Liebenfels revived the idea
> of the Aryan Christ. But this has given it a bad repute. Anyway, Jesus
> of Arcadia is a figure that represents an undercurrent in medieval
> history. It seems like this figure played a role in certain heretic
> movements. Today, we don't view it as very controversial, but in
> medieval times people could be burnt at the stake for uttering such
> secrets. That's what's behind the secrecy of Pouissin's "Et in Arcadia
> Ego". Also in Arcadia am I: Jesus.
[quote] The word Jesus used in the New Testament comes from the Latin
form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua
(ישוע), also used as Joshua or Yesua. [/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iasos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iasos_%28musician%29
Jantero
Nov 5, 2011, 3:19:21 PM11/5/11
to
If you attach supernatural feats to a real person, there's the problem
of someone, or some source, surfacing and showing the person with the
myths attributed to them never did any of that stuff.
A totally fictitious person has an obvious advantage - nobody can come
forward and disprove the attached myths on the basis of having known the
person, or having information on them.
>
> Mats Winther
>
>
M Winther
Nov 5, 2011, 3:43:28 PM11/5/11
to
argonauts (the Golden Fleece)? Jason is the same as Jasos. So Iasos
and Iason are authentic Greek names, and not renditions of Joshua. The
latter interpretation is merely a rationalization.
Mats
M Winther
Nov 5, 2011, 3:45:28 PM11/5/11
to
On this page, for instance, you can find a reference to "Iasos of
Arcadia"
http://www.american-buddha.com/cult.ovid.metamor.ind.htm
Mats
Yusuf B Gursey
Nov 5, 2011, 4:35:07 PM11/5/11
to
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iasos
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iasos_%28musician%29
Jantero
Nov 5, 2011, 4:42:34 PM11/5/11
to
" The daughter of Iasos of Arcadia and Clymene, loved by Meleager. She
joined in the Calydonian Boar Hunt, wounded the boar first and was
awarded the spoils by Meleager. She is called Tegeaea, and Nonacria. "
An irrelevant unsourced piece on a flaky website. Here's the homepage,
check it out: http://www.american-buddha.com/index.htm
How does it support the stuff you postred in your first post?
Again: The Oxford Companion to World Mythology, Leeming, 2005, has no
reference to any of the names that you give above, except "Jesus", and
within that article there are no references to the mythic predecessors
with name spellings you give above.
>
> Mats
within that article there are no references to the mythic predecessors
with name spellings you give above.
>
*Hemidactylus*
Nov 6, 2011, 12:33:43 AM11/6/11
to
point. Things need only seem very superficially similar for them to make
a mountain out of a mole hill and carry on for more than one paragraph
about the "discovery". Realize that the thread has been crossposted from
an alt.psychology.jung regular. The standards of evidence are different
there.
M Winther
Nov 6, 2011, 1:15:31 AM11/6/11
to
"Jantero" <jante...@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:j9473p$j3m$1...@dont-email.me...
Companion to World Mythology covers a fragment of world mythology.
According to below link "Iason was an agricultural hero, the
springtime consort of the goddess Demeter in the Samothracian
mysteries. In myth, he lay with her in a thrice-ploughed field during
the wedding celebrations of Kadmos (Cadmus) and Harmonia on the island
which were attended by all the gods. When Zeus learned of the affair,
he was angered and struck Iasion down with a thunderbolt. Some say
Iasion and the agricultural hero Triptolemos were afterwards placed
amongst the stars in the form of the constellation Gemini (the
heavenly twins). Iasion was perhaps equated with Attis, the dying
consort of the Phrygian goddess Kybele (Cybele), and Karmanor
(Carmanor), Demeter's consort on the island of Krete (Crete)."
http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Iasion.html
So Iason (Iasos) was a dying and resurrecting god-man, associated with
the Samothracian mysteries. Also Hesiod and Homer (Odyssey) mention
him. There is no doubt about his existence in mythology, and his
heroic status in the mystery drama.
Mats Winther
http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-73784/
Jantero
Nov 6, 2011, 10:19:43 AM11/6/11
to
>
Jantero
Nov 6, 2011, 10:30:23 AM11/6/11
to
Every flake in the world devises his own mythical figures with his own
associated interpretations, just as you have done. The internet is
flooded with them. Dan Brown is a prominent example.
Google Scholar has nothing to support what you posted. The only support
you could come up with was an uncited bullshit website on Bhuddism.
The Oxford Companion to World Mythology is at least a source for known
important mythologies, with an emphasis on Medditeranean myths, which is
where you're purported jesus predeccesor is from.
Also, The Oxford Companion to World Mythology does discuss jesus as a
myth figure, with no mention of your supposed predeccessor.
AGAIN: IF YOU HAVE A RELIABLE ACADEMIC SOURCE, POST IT.
<SNIP>
Jantero
Nov 6, 2011, 10:36:24 AM11/6/11
to
On 11/6/2011 6:41 AM, Tronscend wrote:
> "M Winther"<ml...@swipnet.se> skrev i melding
> news:4eb6260a$0$4003$c83e...@weathergirl-read.tele2.net...
Why don't you tell us how many English myths the book deals with, as a
percentage of the total of North and South American, Greek, Roman etc.,
etc.?
> "M Winther"<ml...@swipnet.se> skrev i melding
> news:4eb6260a$0$4003$c83e...@weathergirl-read.tele2.net...
>
>> I can't believe you make this ludicrous argument again.
>
>
> Ludicrous?! THIS IS S H M !!!!!!!!
>> I can't believe you make this ludicrous argument again.
>
>
>
>
>> The Oxford Companion to World Mythology
>
> is English, and if it's not in there, it doesn't exist.
>
>> The Oxford Companion to World Mythology
>
Why don't you tell us how many English myths the book deals with, as a
percentage of the total of North and South American, Greek, Roman etc.,
etc.?
M Winther
Nov 6, 2011, 10:39:38 AM11/6/11
to
On Nov 6, 4:30 pm, Jantero <jantero...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/6/2011 12:15 AM, M Winther wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jantero"<jantero...@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
> On 11/6/2011 12:15 AM, M Winther wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
content. Google Scholar cannot account for a fragment of the world's
knowledge, neither can The Oxford Companion of World Mythology.
I have now dug up the Xerox copies of that book about the predecessor
of Jesus. I am now reading it again.
However, I will not comment on this subject further since it evokes
such negative feelings. It seems to be a very sensitive matter.
Mats
Jantero
Nov 6, 2011, 10:47:14 AM11/6/11
to
On 11/6/2011 8:39 AM, M Winther wrote:
>>
>>> I can't believe you make this ludicrous argument again.
>>
>> Bullshit.
>> Every flake in the world devises his own mythical figures with his own
>> associated interpretations, just as you have done. The internet is
>> flooded with them. Dan Brown is a prominent example.
>>
>> Google Scholar has nothing to support what you posted. The only support
>> you could come up with was an uncited bullshit website on Bhuddism.
>>
>> The Oxford Companion to World Mythology is at least a source for known
>> important mythologies, with an emphasis on Medditeranean myths, which is
>> where you're purported jesus predeccesor is from.
>>
>> Also, The Oxford Companion to World Mythology does discuss jesus as a
>> myth figure, with no mention of your supposed predeccessor.
>>
>> AGAIN: IF YOU HAVE A RELIABLE ACADEMIC SOURCE, POST IT.
>>
>> <SNIP>
>
> Dan Brown is an author of novels. It is his job to invent mythic
> content.
No it isn't, you fool. Many fiction writers write books which don't
>>
>>> I can't believe you make this ludicrous argument again.
>>
>> Bullshit.
>> Every flake in the world devises his own mythical figures with his own
>> associated interpretations, just as you have done. The internet is
>> flooded with them. Dan Brown is a prominent example.
>>
>> Google Scholar has nothing to support what you posted. The only support
>> you could come up with was an uncited bullshit website on Bhuddism.
>>
>> The Oxford Companion to World Mythology is at least a source for known
>> important mythologies, with an emphasis on Medditeranean myths, which is
>> where you're purported jesus predeccesor is from.
>>
>> Also, The Oxford Companion to World Mythology does discuss jesus as a
>> myth figure, with no mention of your supposed predeccessor.
>>
>> AGAIN: IF YOU HAVE A RELIABLE ACADEMIC SOURCE, POST IT.
>>
>> <SNIP>
>
> Dan Brown is an author of novels. It is his job to invent mythic
> content.
distort historical information.
Google Scholar cannot account for a fragment of the world's
> knowledge, neither can The Oxford Companion of World Mythology.
>
> I have now dug up the Xerox copies of that book about the predecessor
> of Jesus. I am now reading it again.
>
> However, I will not comment on this subject further since it evokes
> such negative feelings. It seems to be a very sensitive matter.
AGAIN: IF YOU HAVE A RELIABLE ACADEMIC SOURCE FOR WHAT YOU INITIALLY
POSTED, POST IT.
>
> Mats
David Friedman
Nov 6, 2011, 11:34:10 AM11/6/11
to
In article
<1461f5dd-15fe-441f...@eh5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
be implausible, and you are unable to provide any serious academic
support for it.
Are you assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is a Christian?
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_
<1461f5dd-15fe-441f...@eh5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
M Winther <ml...@swipnet.se> wrote:
> However, I will not comment on this subject further since it evokes
> such negative feelings. It seems to be a very sensitive matter.
One way of explaining away the fact that other people find your claim to
> However, I will not comment on this subject further since it evokes
> such negative feelings. It seems to be a very sensitive matter.
be implausible, and you are unable to provide any serious academic
support for it.
Are you assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is a Christian?
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_
Checkmate
Nov 7, 2011, 1:43:49 AM11/7/11
to
Warning! Always wear ANSI approved safety goggles when reading posts by
Checkmate or his many talented socks. Oh yeah... I should also mention
that Ac. Abhidevananda Avadhuta said this shit:
o\O
o\OOn Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:08:15 -0600, Jantero <jante...@hotmail.com>
o\Owrote:
o\O
o\O>On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:
o\O>> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
o\O>> Iesos,
o\O>
o\O>Where are your source cites for what you have here?
o\O
o\OMost of what is said about Jesus seems to be imaginary. So, in the
o\Ospirit of "all things to all men", why not let the Aryan supremacists
o\Ohave an Aryan Jesus? Obviously, it pains them greatly to think that
o\Othey would be worshipping a brown-skinned Middle-Easterner.
If Mary was a virgin, Jesus must have popped her cherry on his way out.
Not many guys have popped their own mother's cherry. Kinky.
--
Checkmate
Copyright © 2011
all rights reserved
Checkmate or his many talented socks. Oh yeah... I should also mention
that Ac. Abhidevananda Avadhuta said this shit:
o\O
o\OOn Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:08:15 -0600, Jantero <jante...@hotmail.com>
o\Owrote:
o\O
o\O>On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:
o\O>> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
o\O>> Iesos,
o\O>
o\O>Where are your source cites for what you have here?
o\O
o\OMost of what is said about Jesus seems to be imaginary. So, in the
o\Ospirit of "all things to all men", why not let the Aryan supremacists
o\Ohave an Aryan Jesus? Obviously, it pains them greatly to think that
o\Othey would be worshipping a brown-skinned Middle-Easterner.
If Mary was a virgin, Jesus must have popped her cherry on his way out.
Not many guys have popped their own mother's cherry. Kinky.
--
Checkmate
Copyright © 2011
all rights reserved
Bryn
Nov 17, 2011, 5:17:37 AM11/17/11
to
On Nov 7, 6:43 am, Checkmate <LunaticFri...@The.Edge> wrote:
> Warning! Always wear ANSI approved safety goggles when reading posts by
> Checkmate or his many talented socks. Oh yeah... I should also mention
> that Ac. Abhidevananda Avadhuta said this shit:
> o\O
> o\OOn Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:08:15 -0600, Jantero <jantero...@hotmail.com>
> Warning! Always wear ANSI approved safety goggles when reading posts by
> Checkmate or his many talented socks. Oh yeah... I should also mention
> that Ac. Abhidevananda Avadhuta said this shit:
> o\O
> o\Owrote:
> o\O
> o\O>On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:
> o\O>> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
> o\O>> Iesos,
> o\O>
> o\O>Where are your source cites for what you have here?
> o\O
> o\OMost of what is said about Jesus seems to be imaginary. So, in the
> o\Ospirit of "all things to all men", why not let the Aryan supremacists
> o\Ohave an Aryan Jesus? Obviously, it pains them greatly to think that
> o\Othey would be worshipping a brown-skinned Middle-Easterner.
>
> If Mary was a virgin, Jesus must have popped her cherry on his way out.
> Not many guys have popped their own mother's cherry. Kinky.
>
> --
> Checkmate
> Copyright © 2011
> all rights reserved
Checky! You're being cheeky!
> o\O
> o\O>On 11/2/2011 2:54 AM, M Winther wrote:
> o\O>> Interestingly, there existed in Graeco-Roman mythology a god-man named
> o\O>> Iesos,
> o\O>
> o\O>Where are your source cites for what you have here?
> o\O
> o\OMost of what is said about Jesus seems to be imaginary. So, in the
> o\Ospirit of "all things to all men", why not let the Aryan supremacists
> o\Ohave an Aryan Jesus? Obviously, it pains them greatly to think that
> o\Othey would be worshipping a brown-skinned Middle-Easterner.
>
> If Mary was a virgin, Jesus must have popped her cherry on his way out.
> Not many guys have popped their own mother's cherry. Kinky.
>
> --
> Checkmate
> Copyright © 2011
> all rights reserved
How the hell are you?
davidh...@gmail.com
Aug 24, 2012, 12:43:06 PM8/24/12
to
Jesus, Osiris, Dionysus, Mithras....
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