WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN
a...@sdrodrian.com
{SDR: I have not altered a word from the
the folowing A. P. story]
2 Afghans Face Death Over Translation of Quran
Published: February 6, 2009
KABUL (AP) -- No one knows who brought the book to the
mosque, or at least no one dares say.
The pocket-size translation of the Quran has already
landed six men in prison in Afghanistan and left two
of them begging judges to spare their lives. They're
accused of modifying the Quran and their fate could be
decided Sunday in court.
The trial illustrates what critics call the undue
influence of hardline clerics in Afghanistan, a major
hurdle as the country tries to establish a lawful
society amid war and militant violence.
The book appeared among gifts left for the cleric at a
major Kabul mosque after Friday prayers in September
2007. It was a translation of the Quran into one of
Afghanistan's languages, with a note giving permission
to reprint the text as long as it was distributed for
free.
Some of the men of the mosque said the book would be
useful to Afghans who didn't know Arabic, so they took
up a collection for printing. The mosque's cleric
asked Ahmad Ghaws Zalmai, a longtime friend, to get
the books printed.
But as some of the 1,000 copies made their way to
conservative Muslim clerics in Kabul, whispers began,
then an outcry.
Many clerics rejected the book because it did not
include the original Arabic verses alongside the
translation. It's a particularly sensitive detail for
Muslims, who regard the Arabic Quran as words given
directly by God. A translation is not considered a
Quran itself, and a mistranslation could warp God's
word.
The clerics said Zalmai, a stocky 54-year-old
spokesman for the attorney general, was trying to
anoint himself as a prophet. They said his book was
trying to replace the Quran, not offer a simple
translation. Translated editions of the Quran abound
in Kabul markets, but they include Arabic verses.
The country's powerful Islamic council issued an edict
condemning the book.
''In all the mosques in Afghanistan, all the mullahs
said, 'Zalmai is an infidel. He should be killed,'''
Zalmai recounted as he sat outside the chief judge's
chambers waiting for a recent hearing.
Zalmai lost friends quickly. He was condemned by
colleagues and even by others involved in the book's
printing. A mob stoned his house one night, said his
brother, Mahmood Ghaws.
Police arrested Zalmai as he was fleeing to Pakistan,
along with three other men the government says were
trying to help him escape. The publisher and the
mosque's cleric, who signed a letter endorsing the
book, were also jailed.
There is no law in Afghanistan prohibiting the
translation of the Quran. But Zalmai is accused of
violating Islamic Shariah law by modifying the Quran.
The courts in Afghanistan, an Islamic state, are
empowered to apply Shariah law when there are no
applicable existing statutes.
And Afghanistan's court system appears to be stacked
against those accused of religious crimes. Judges
don't want to seem soft on potential heretics and
lawyers don't want to be seen defending them, said
Afzal Shurmach Nooristani, whose Afghan Legal Aid
group is defending Zalmai.
The prosecutor wants the death penalty for Zalmai and
the cleric, who have now spent more than a year in
prison.
Sentences on religious infractions can be harsh. In
January 2008, a court sentenced a journalism student
to death for blasphemy for asking questions about
women's rights under Islam. An appeals court reduced
the sentence to 20 years in prison. His lawyers
appealed again and the case is pending.
In 2006, an Afghan man was sentenced to death for
converting to Christianity. He was later ruled insane
and was given asylum in Italy. Islamic leaders and the
parliament accused President Hamid Karzai of being a
puppet for the West for letting him live.
Nooristani, who is also defending the journalism
student, said he and his colleagues have received
death threats.
''The mullahs in the mosques have said whoever defends
an infidel is an infidel,'' Nooristani said.
The legal aid organization, which usually represents
impoverished defendants, is defending Zalmai because
no one else would take the case.
''We went to all the lawyers and they said, 'We can't
help you because all the mullahs are against you. If
we defend you, the mullahs will say that we should be
killed.' We went six months without a lawyer,'' Zalmai
said outside the judge's chambers.
The publisher was originally sentenced to five years
in prison. Zalmai and the cleric were sentenced to 20,
and now the prosecutor is demanding the death penalty
for the two as a judge hears appeals.
Nearly everyone in court claims ignorance now.
The mosque's mullah says he never read the book and
that he was duped into signing the letter. The print
shop owner says neither he nor any of his employees
read the book, noting that it's illegal for them to
read materials they publish.
Zalmai pleaded for forgiveness before a January
hearing, saying he had assumed a stand-alone
translation wasn't a problem.
''You can find these types of translations in Turkey,
in Russia, in France, in Italy,'' he said.
When the chief judge later banged his gavel to silence
shouting lawyers and nodded at Zalmai to explain
himself, the defendant stood and chanted Quranic
verses as proof that he was a devout Muslim who should
be forgiven.
Shariah law is applied differently in Islamic states.
Saudi Arabia claims the Quran as its constitution,
while Malaysia has separate religious and secular
courts.
But since there is no ultimate arbiter of religious
questions in Afghanistan, judges must strike a balance
between the country's laws and proclamations by
clerics or the Islamic council, called the Ulema
council.
Judges are ''so nervous about annoying the Ulema
council and being criticized that they tend to push
the Islamic cases aside and just defer to what others
say,'' said John Dempsey, a legal expert with the U.S.
Institute of Peace in Kabul.
Deferring to the council means that edicts issued by
the group of clerics can influence rulings more than
laws on the books or a judge's own interpretation of
Shariah law, he said.
Judges have to be careful about whom they might anger
with their rulings. In September, gunmen killed a top
judge with Afghanistan's counter-narcotics court.
Other judges have been gunned down as well.
Mahmood Ghaws said that even if his brother is found
innocent, their family will never be treated the same.
''When I go out in the street, people don't say hello
to me in the way they used to,'' he said. ''They don't
ask after my family.''
S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://MP3s.sdrodrian.com
All religions are local.
Only science is universal.
.
Gunter Glieben Glauchen Globen
> WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN
>
> {SDR: I have not altered a word from the
> the folowing A. P. story]
>
> 2 Afghans Face Death Over Translation of Quran
> Published: February 6, 2009
I don't think a Koran is worth fighting for. Nor do I care how it's
translated.
Mark
The Koran has practical applications. If you run out
of toilet paper it will sustain you for a week or so.
-------
Mark
"high atop my secret world headquarters".
Bill Penrose
> WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN
It might be some uncomfortable facts about Islam, but it isn't really
a reason to be fighting in Afghanistan. That kind of toxic society
needs to be walled off like an infection. There's nothing to be done
to cure fanaticism like that. Certainly not going in with force and
making them more fanatical.
I assumed we were there because they sheltered the 19 - 9/11
hijackers. But we're still good buddies with Saudi Arabia, who
provided most of the men and money that supported 9/11.
DB
Orsen Wells w/Citizen Cain
"Gunter Glieben Glauchen Globen" <dear...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9b856155-b2fc-459f...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Not even if it's into Klingon?
Jackson Pillock
That's just hateful. Not even arrogant. I daresay none of the
outspoken mw atheists would make such a "joke".
(Note use of ironic quotes. Do you see how that works, and how it has
worked against your intended meaning in certain posts?)
Mark
> On 8 Feb, 04:16, Mark <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 7, 10:33 pm, Gunter Glieben Glauchen Globen
>
> > <dearci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 7, 6:12 pm, a...@sdrodrian.com wrote:
>
> > > > WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN
>
> > > > {SDR: I have not altered a word from the
> > > > the folowing A. P. story]
>
> > > > 2 Afghans Face Death Over Translation of Quran
> > > > Published: February 6, 2009
>
> > > I don't think a Koran is worth fighting for. Nor do I care how it's
> > > translated.
>
> > The Koran has practical applications. If you run out
> > of toilet paper it will sustain you for a week or so.
>
> That's just hateful. Not even arrogant.
Yes arrogance is a very poor character trait, and I
strive to not be arrogant.
> I daresay none of the
> outspoken mw atheists would make such a "joke".
Yes, basically the mw blokes are a cheerio lot.
> (Note use of ironic quotes. Do you see how that works, and how it has
> worked against your intended meaning in certain posts?)- Hide quoted text -
Yes, I know how they work. It's like "I'm saying this, but not
really because it's peculiarly almost the opposite."
You are being brainwashed as Britian is being overrun with
Islam, as they try to make it a muslim state. It's a pity.
muhammed was nothing more than an ignorant warlord,
and islam is a plagiarsed concoction of the Old Testament.
All believers in Islam will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only
Son of God and the only way to Heaven. All others religions
are false products of the Devil.
Glad you had fun on the ice the other day. Don't forget to
make time to get out in the fresh air and take a break from
all the seriousness of composition.
Keep up the good work.
-------
Mark
The minority report
> - Show quoted text -
Jackson Pillock
> On Feb 8, 3:38 am, Jackson Pillock <andy...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8 Feb, 04:16, Mark <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 7, 10:33 pm, Gunter Glieben Glauchen Globen
>
> > > <dearci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 7, 6:12 pm, a...@sdrodrian.com wrote:
>
> > > > > WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN
>
> > > > > {SDR: I have not altered a word from the
> > > > > the folowing A. P. story]
>
> > > > > 2 Afghans Face Death Over Translation of Quran
> > > > > Published: February 6, 2009
>
> > > > I don't think a Koran is worth fighting for. Nor do I care how it's
> > > > translated.
>
> > > The Koran has practical applications. If you run out
> > > of toilet paper it will sustain you for a week or so.
>
> > That's just hateful. Not even arrogant.
>
> Yes arrogance is a very poor character trait, and I
> strive to not be arrogant.
>
> > I daresay none of the
> > outspoken mw atheists would make such a "joke".
>
> Yes, basically the mw blokes are a cheerio lot.
What does that mean? I'm more a bran flakes man myself.
>
> > (Note use of ironic quotes. Do you see how that works, and how it has
> > worked against your intended meaning in certain posts?)- Hide quoted text -
>
> Yes, I know how they work. It's like "I'm saying this, but not
> really because it's peculiarly almost the opposite."
Well done.
>
> You are being brainwashed as Britian is being overrun with
> Islam, as they try to make it a muslim state.
Gawd. A cherry Kool-aid drinker is worried I might be dabbling in
grape.
It's a pity.
> muhammed was nothing more than an ignorant warlord,
> and islam is a plagiarsed concoction of the Old Testament.
> All believers in Islam will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only
> Son of God and the only way to Heaven. All others religions
> are false products of the Devil.
How do you know that? Any of it?
>
> Glad you had fun on the ice the other day. Don't forget to
> make time to get out in the fresh air and take a break from
> all the seriousness of composition.
>
> Keep up the good work.
Thanks, I will.
>
> -------
> Mark
> The minority report
>
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Ultraviolet
> On 8 Feb, 10:18, Mark <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<>
> > muhammed was nothing more than an ignorant warlord,
> > and islam is a plagiarsed concoction of the Old Testament.
> > All believers in Islam will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only
> > Son of God and the only way to Heaven. All others religions
> > are false products of the Devil.
>
> How do you know that? Any of it?
He doesn't know it, of course. Mark's arrogant posturing fails to hide
his fear and desperation, as opposed to, say, Gekko and PJ, who have
faith, but don't act like assholes about it. Mark sounds like a
toddler clutching a ratty old blanket and screaming that it will
protect him from the invisible monsters in the closet. He can't even
pretend he's trying to "save" anyone here -- he's just being a jerk.
--
UV
gekko
08 Feb 2009 s/he wrote something in misc.writing! See?
> On Feb 8, 3:46 am, Jackson Pillock <andy...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 8 Feb, 10:18, Mark <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> <>
>
>> > muhammed was nothing more than an ignorant warlord,
>> > and islam is a plagiarsed concoction of the Old Testament.
>> > All believers in Islam will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the
>> > only Son of God and the only way to Heaven. All others
>> > religions are false products of the Devil.
>>
>> How do you know that? Any of it?
>
>
> He doesn't know it, of course.
Assuming he is speaking truly of his belief and not merely throwing
words out there in order to troll and entertain himself, he _cannot_
know it. It's either whispered gossip, allegedly from God's lips to
his ears, or it is, as UV writes, his
> [...] arrogant posturing [which] fails to
> hide his fear and desperation,
Mark and montewelk express the version of faith that turns people
away. Those firey exhortations work only to inflame the already
convinced. They are expressions of intolerance, and they run counter
to the words and teachings of the Christ of the Bible. Directly
counter. It is as though they were anti-Christs, albeit not in that
Revelation way.
> as opposed to, say, Gekko and PJ,
> who have faith, but don't act like assholes about it.
Yeah, I save my assholishness for other topics.
> Mark sounds
> like a toddler clutching a ratty old blanket and screaming that it
> will protect him from the invisible monsters in the closet. He
> can't even pretend he's trying to "save" anyone here -- he's just
> being a jerk.
Saving himself. Perhaps he has informed himself that if he rants
just so then God will think he's a Good Christian and will give him
the seat next to the right hand seat.
Personally, I think he's just trolling and getting all wriggly and
excited when people respond exactly as he has cleverly designed.
It's so cute when his fictional metal leg clangs on the floor like
that, isn't it?
--
gekko
The wheel's spinning, but the hamster's dead.
Skipper
<25262101-24a5-47bd...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
Jackson Pillock <and...@btinternet.com> wrote:
I think you should send over some of your writing, Andy. That would
prevent him from using a Koran, give him something equally worthless to
use, and you'd do your part for world peace.
Jackson Pillock
> In article
> <25262101-24a5-47bd-968a-107287928...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah. Remind me, Lloyd. What does (????) mean in the context of an
imdb entry?
ing
> The Koran has practical applications. If you run out
> of toilet paper it will sustain you for a week or so.
God, you really are one incredibly boring,unfunny little shit, ya
know?
ing
Stan (the Man)
e95580...@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that he's morphed from a run of the
mill asshole into a boring, unfunny, run of the mill asshole, thus combining
the one mortal sin of usenet, being boring, with being an unfunny, run of the
mill asshole. A mw triple play, if you will.
--
Stan
Alan Hope
>You are being brainwashed as Britian is being overrun with
>Islam, as they try to make it a muslim state.
What a lot of nonsense.
Grand Mal
"Mark" <blueri...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b149d665-b59c-4b31...@f20g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 7, 10:33 pm, Gunter Glieben Glauchen Globen
<dearci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 6:12 pm, a...@sdrodrian.com wrote:
>
> > WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN
>
> > {SDR: I have not altered a word from the
> > the folowing A. P. story]
>
> > 2 Afghans Face Death Over Translation of Quran
> > Published: February 6, 2009
>
> I don't think a Koran is worth fighting for. Nor do I care how it's
> translated.
-The Koran has practical applications. If you run out
-of toilet paper it will sustain you for a week or so.
Fucksake. Another one. Proudly Part of the Problem.
Listen, fuckwit, human society has lots of problems but there's one really
big one, one problem that outweighs all others by a factor of ten, one
problem that stops us from ever becoming more than highly effective animals
and that problem is you and all like you.
Asshole.
Mark
wrote:
> ing <ing.blue...@sympatico.ca> wrote in news:73f25bf4-b028-40a4-9eb1-
> e95580b39...@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Feb 7, 11:16 pm, Mark <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> The Koran has practical applications. If you run out
> >> of toilet paper it will sustain you for a week or so.
>
> > God, you really are one incredibly boring,unfunny little shit, ya
> > know?
>
> It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that he's morphed from a run of the
> mill asshole into a boring, unfunny, run of the mill asshole, thus combining
> the one mortal sin of usenet, being boring, with being an unfunny, run of the
> mill asshole. A mw triple play, if you will.
>
> --
> Stan
Apparently it was interesting enough to motivate you into
typing.
Caught ya again in irony. That's 2 for 2, stan the sissy.
-------
Mark (the Man)
Mark
There is much evidence to be found where the influence of
Islam is exerting force over the political and judicial
methods of England. If you deny this, then it's the 2nd
time I've caught you making preposterous postulations.
At least you're predictable.
---------
Mark
The minority report
Mark
> "Mark" <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Oh, it's OK to say my Lord and Saviour didn't exist, but
my minority opinion about a worthless book sends you
swooning. Ridiculous. Simply Ridiculous.
At least I've not resorted to profanity, the language of
the illiterate.
Other than than, nothing personal. I still kinda like you
as a person.
--------
Mark
Mark
Uh, NO
------
Mark
Mark
> Ohmigosh! It's Ultraviolet <paula.li...@gmail.com>! And look! On
> 08 Feb 2009 s/he wrote something in misc.writing! See?
>
> > On Feb 8, 3:46 am, Jackson Pillock <andy...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >> On 8 Feb, 10:18, Mark <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > <>
>
> >> > muhammed was nothing more than an ignorant warlord,
> >> > and islam is a plagiarsed concoction of the Old Testament.
> >> > All believers in Islam will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the
> >> > only Son of God and the only way to Heaven. All others
> >> > religions are false products of the Devil.
>
> >> How do you know that? Any of it?
>
> > He doesn't know it, of course.
>
> Assuming he is speaking truly of his belief and not merely throwing
> words out there in order to troll
truly my belief
>and entertain himself, he _cannot_
> know it.
Considering the historicity and personal evidence, the
preponderance of evidence meets the burden of proof.
End of story.
It's either whispered gossip, allegedly from God's lips to
> his ears, or it is, as UV writes, his
>
> > [...] arrogant posturing [which] fails to
> > hide his fear and desperation,
>
> Mark and montewelk express the version of faith that turns people
> away.
Ya know, I never claimed to be a preacher. If you want
to believe different, that's your problem. Just don't expect
me to abide by a double standard of intolerance.
>Those firey exhortations work only to inflame the already
> convinced. They are expressions of intolerance, and they run counter
> to the words and teachings of the Christ of the Bible.
Bullocks. It's merely righteous indignation.
Directly
> counter. It is as though they were anti-Christs, albeit not in that
> Revelation way.
>
> > as opposed to, say, Gekko and PJ,
> > who have faith, but don't act like assholes about it.
> Yeah, I save my assholishness for other topics.
What ever floats your boat. I think we should just get
the hell out of Afghanistan, and let em smoke opium
till their turbans catch on fire.
>
> > Mark sounds
> > like a toddler clutching a ratty old blanket and screaming that it
> > will protect him from the invisible monsters in the closet. He
> > can't even pretend he's trying to "save" anyone here -- he's just
> > being a jerk.
>
> Saving himself. Perhaps he has informed himself that if he rants
> just so then God will think he's a Good Christian and will give him
> the seat next to the right hand seat.
Again, not a preacher. Just a man that has no reservations
about speaking the minority postion.
> Personally, I think he's just trolling and getting all wriggly and
> excited
Nah, just doing my thing. Saying whatever I feel like.
Your responses are your version of doing the same.
> when people respond exactly as he has cleverly designed.
Ok, actually, ....you aren't wrong with this one.
> It's so cute when his fictional metal leg clangs on the floor like
> that, isn't it?
Heh, metal leg. See, the -socket- is the top part. That's
been especially manufactured out of carbon fiber as per
my design. Then the VSP model I adapted is titanium but
that's only the high-tech shock absorbing feature. Then it
goes back into the "foot" part, which again, is high tensil
carbon fiber, and wrapped in a "shell", which is a cute
little flesh colored foot with 5 pretty toes and nails that
never need clipping. All together, it is superior to anything
you have.
--------
Mark
Mark
> On Feb 8, 3:46 am, Jackson Pillock <andy...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > On 8 Feb, 10:18, Mark <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> <>
>
> > > muhammed was nothing more than an ignorant warlord,
> > > and islam is a plagiarsed concoction of the Old Testament.
> > > All believers in Islam will go to Hell. Jesus Christ is the only
> > > Son of God and the only way to Heaven. All others religions
> > > are false products of the Devil.
>
> > How do you know that? Any of it?
>
> He doesn't know it, of course.
I know it thru research.
> Mark's arrogant
Yes, arrogance is stronger than timidity.
>posturing
More like "striking a pose".
>fails to hide
Agreed. Not hiding.
> his fear and desperation
You are merely projecting here.
Wishful thinking I'd say.
> as opposed to, say, Gekko and PJ, who have
> faith,
Good. Third person selling.
>but don't act like assholes about it.
We're all entitled to be assholes now and again.
Look at boots. He's immersed in the concept.
> Mark sounds like a
> toddler clutching a ratty old blanket
Aw, that's cute. You're kinda maternial.
>and screaming that it will
> protect him from the invisible monsters in the closet.
Your train of thought seems to have floated off
into a Charlie Brown Halloween special. You do
realize that cartoons aren't real don't you?
>He can't even
> pretend he's trying to "save" anyone here
True
> he's just being a jerk.
Judgemental. Tsk, tsk.
-------
Mark
>
> --
> UV
Ultraviolet
It's sad that you can't understand a simple metaphor, Mark. This is
why I actually believe you're sincere in your gibberish here and not
trolling: you're too dumb to troll.
> >He can't even
> > pretend he's trying to "save" anyone here
>
> True
>
> > he's just being a jerk.
>
> Judgemental. Tsk, tsk.
As if you're not. Tsk, tsk.
--
UV
Ultraviolet
<>
> At least I've not resorted to profanity, the language of
> the illiterate.
And there's yet another illustration of your ineluctable stupidity.
--
UV
Mark
>
> > Your train of thought seems to have floated off
> > into a Charlie Brown Halloween special. You do
> > realize that cartoons aren't real don't you?
>
> It's sad that you can't understand a simple metaphor, Mark. This is
> why I actually believe you're sincere in your gibberish here and not
> trolling: you're too dumb to troll.
I kinda love you a little bit.
Mark
Jackson Pillock
> "Mark" <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b149d665-b59c-4b31...@f20g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 7, 10:33 pm, Gunter Glieben Glauchen Globen
>
> <dearci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 7, 6:12 pm, a...@sdrodrian.com wrote:
>
> > > WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN
>
> > > {SDR: I have not altered a word from the
> > > the folowing A. P. story]
>
> > > 2 Afghans Face Death Over Translation of Quran
> > > Published: February 6, 2009
>
> > I don't think a Koran is worth fighting for. Nor do I care how it's
> > translated.
>
> -The Koran has practical applications. If you run out
> -of toilet paper it will sustain you for a week or so.
>
> Fucksake. Another one. Proudly Part of the Problem.
"Proudly part of the problem." Like it.
Alan Hope
>On Feb 8, 4:15 pm, Alan Hope <usenet.ident...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mark goes:
>> >You are being brainwashed as Britian is being overrun with
>> >Islam, as they try to make it a muslim state.
>> What a lot of nonsense.
>There is much evidence to be found where the influence of
>Islam is exerting force over the political and judicial
>methods of England.
No, there isn't. That's precisely why I described your previous
statement as "nonsense".
>If you deny this, then it's the 2nd
>time I've caught you making preposterous postulations.
>At least you're predictable.
Well, if there's "much evidence to be found" why don't you show me
some of it?
Mark
Ok sir, be back shortly. I read indepth about this elsewhere.
It was a shocking expose'. Course, it's pretty much common
knowledge worldwide.
Hope you're having a good day.
------
Mark
Jackson Pillock
>
> - Show quoted text -
Let me help you out, you little gifted child you. Google Archbishop
Rowan Williams and Sharia Law. I expect that's what you're on about,
if it's anything at all.
Mark
Reference supplied by boots, always ready to throw
gas on the fire. I found many more, but if you reject my
sources then reasoning won't be possible.
Monday 09 February 2009 | UK News feed | All feeds
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Home News UK NewsSharia courts operating in Britain
Sharia courts have been operating in Britain to rule on disputes
between Muslims for more than a year, it has emerged.
By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Last Updated: 10:55AM BST 16 Sep 2008
Comments 358 | Comment on this article
Five sharia courts have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford
and Manchester and Nuneaton, Warwickshire. The government has quietly
sanctioned that their rulings are enforceable with the full power of
the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.
Previously, the rulings were not binding and depended on voluntary
compliance among Muslims.
Lawyers have issued grave warnings about the dangers of a dual legal
system and the disclosure drew criticism from Opposition leaders.
Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: "If it is true that
these tribunals are passing binding decisions in the areas of family
and criminal law, I would like to know which courts are enforcing them
because I would consider such action unlawful. British law is absolute
and must remain so."
Douglas Murray, the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, added:
"I think it's appalling. I don't think arbitration that is done by
sharia should ever be endorsed or enforced by the British state."
Muslim tribunal courts started passing sharia judgments in August
2007. They have dealt with more than 100 cases that range from Muslim
divorce and inheritance to nuisance neighbours.
It has also emerged that tribunal courts have settled six cases of
domestic violence between married couples, working in tandem with the
police investigations.
Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs
the courts, said that sharia courts are classified as arbitration
tribunals under a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996.
The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that
both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on
their case.
The disclosures come after Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of
Canterbury, sparked a national debate and calls for his resignation
for saying that the establishment of sharia in the future "seems
unavoidable" in Britain.
In July, Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers, the Lord Chief Justice
agreed that Muslims in Britain should be able to live according to
Islamic law to decide financial and marital disputes.
Mr Siddiqi said he expected the courts to handle a greater number of
"smaller" criminal cases in coming years as more Muslim clients
approach them. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and
Edinburgh.
"All we are doing is regulating community affairs in these cases,"
said Mr Siddiqi, chairman of the governing council of the tribunal.
There are concerns for women suffering under the Islamic laws, which
favours men.
Mr Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the
court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between
three daughters and two sons.
The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters,
in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British
court, the daughters would have got equal amounts.
In the six cases of domestic violence, Mr Siddiqi said the judges
ordered the husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring
from community elders. There was no further punishment.
In each case, the women subsequently withdrew the complaints they had
lodged with the police and the police stopped their investigations.
Mr Siddiqi said that in the domestic violence cases, the advantage was
that marriages were saved and couples given a second chance.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2957428/Sharia-law-courts-operating-in-Britain.html
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UK News Get feed updatesNews Get feed updatesLaw and order Get feed
updatesDebates Get feed updatesComments: 358
Actually Sharia Courts have been operating in the UK for 25 years
since its inception, it has not presided over any of the stereotypical
cases associated with sharia law � not one hand has been cut off,
norfornicator flogged. Rather more prosaically, penal law is never
addressed � the fatwas (judgments) all concern personal issues such as
divorce, financial arbitration, family disputes and inheritances.
The Jews also have had their own courts for nearly 100 years.
Michael Lee
on September 20, 2008
at 11:26 AM
Report this commentWhen britain was Great we were a society who had
good morals, dicipline in the homes, and in the scools. We also had a
Christian assemble each morning in the schools. We need to get back to
the bible. Why arnt the british people told about these things. In the
end man is not in control, God is.
bernard & doreen adams
on September 19, 2008
at 05:38 PM
Report this commentTo N on September 18, 2008
at 04:48 PM----
in all honesty, there's nothing they can do about it. Even if they got
up the will to protest by letter-writing, phoning, demonstrating, etc-
there's no teeth in it. The government will just ignore them, just as
they have on the Lisbon referendum. Their government made sure of that
by disarming them. That was the first, and most important, act of
ensuring that the people no longer have any voice in their own
government. Taking the teeth out of their means of backing up their
protest at their country being ruled by fiat (increasingly no longer
even by their own Parliament, but from Brussels). The Islamic
extremists will back up their protests, they don't have any respect
for the law of the land, so they will be the ones who are armed either
with firearms or bombs.
Melanie
on September 18, 2008
at 06:16 PM
Report this commentTo abda
on September 18, 2008
at 08:22 AM----
if sharia is so great, why aren't you in a country where it's the law
of the land? Why live in a country where the accepted law system for
centuries, you consider slow and "oppressive"?
Melanie
on September 18, 2008
at 05:29 PM
Report this commentSo, Brits? What are you all going to do about it?
The time has come, whether you want to or not and whether you like it
or not, to start to band together and plot to KEEP your country. So?
What are you going to do about it? When is "enough....ENOUGH?!"
Remember the book that John F. Kennedy wrote? It was aptly entitled,
WHILE ENGLAND SLEPT. Right now, all of the West is asleep, but England
is, again, the first at the wheel....what will you do? The sentiments
globally toward political correctness and Islamic Extremists is much
like it was before World War II, when many wanted appeasement. The
difference? Times now are even worse! So.....Britain....I ask again:
What will you do about it? Don't wait until it's too late....lest you
be overcome and done.
N
on September 18, 2008
at 04:48 PM
Report this commentSharia Law is a good thing but I can understand how
confusing it is at present having both systems here as I find it
somewhat so myself. My experience of Islamic law shows me that it is
quick and efficient. Costs are a minimum if any. Arbitration can only
be a good thing as opposed to an oppressive formal court hearing
system currently in operation in the west. As a Muslim I have found
the Islamic system to be much, much better than the western way.
abda
on September 18, 2008
at 08:22 AM
Report this commentLong live the Queen in her burqa. And the USA if
Obama gets elected.
Magilla
on September 17, 2008
at 11:41 PM
Report this commentMohan Sharma, you are mistaken about Secularists.
Secularists oppose Sharia Courts operating in Britain. Go to the
National Secular Societys home page, if you want to find out what
Secularists stand for.
Rob
on September 17, 2008
at 11:41 PM
Report this commentwhat next honor killings????
civil law first...
criminal second....
then they came for me and i was the only one left..... sound
familiar????
but overhere in TEXAS we are armed so "COME AND GET IT"
what has happened to you??
what happened to England???
gonna miss ya'll
vince
on September 17, 2008
at 11:41 PM
Report this commentIt is a sad day for us. Once Blest by God because
we upheld His name...Not the name of Allah!
It doesn't surprise me, I'm afraid there is much worse to come.
a winter
on September 17, 2008
at 07:20 PM
Report this comment
So long Britain, it was nice knowing you.
Russ
on September 17, 2008
at 07:20 PM
Report this commentwhat ever happened to being proud to be called
british? there was the british culture and the british humor, british
history rich in being a strong brit. now there is a new citizen in the
land living in there own country within a country. there is a second
law in the land, and it is called sharia. this ne law takes legal
precedence over british law, right in britian not in some world
tribunal in the hague far away. this new law is for people who dont
want to be proud british citizens but proud muslim citizens, citzens
of a world domiated by mulsims even if small in numbers in some
places. they stamp there control with sharia law. this is there first
step in saying we are here, we are not british, dont care about
british law, and now have a new enclave on your island you call
britian and we call part of the greater islamic world with our new
capital londinstan. wake up britian! where has the roman empire gone?
why is civilization going backwards? i love everyone, and everyone is
entitled to worship whom ever or what ever they want as long as it
makes them feel and act like a good person, however, living in another
country means respecting that countries laws, customs, and culture. no
one is saying change your religion or loose your values or culture,
just change your location if you can not and do not want to assimilate
with some degree and have respect for the lands laws and culture of
the place you chose to move to.
god please be a passionate energy and stop all this chaos. there are
people on this plane that just want to get along.
ira
on September 17, 2008
at 05:35 PM
Report this commentIslam 1. Britain 0
morgan
on September 17, 2008
at 01:02 PM
Report this commentIf these Muslims want sharia law then they should
go back to where they came from. I'd like to see any Brit try to
impose his will in any Muslim country. This stupidity has really got
to stop now!!! The sooner this Labour government is out the better.
True Brit
on September 17, 2008
at 09:41 AM
Report this commentI thought Americans were stupid, but the Brits win
the prize. Americans are still "asleep" with their football, nascar,
and porn. We�ve had one terrorist attack; unlike the U.K. that has had
more than one since 9-11. England has just handed over their country
to Radical Islam. I hope you're happy with your POLITICALLY CORRECT
decision. FOOLS!!!
An American
on September 17, 2008
at 09:38 AM
Report this commentIt is quite significant that the majority of women
posters on this thread are opposed to this development. They have good
reason to be given the subhuman status of women under Sharia Law. I am
a Socialist, who firmly believes that all should be equal before the
law.
Walter Cairns
on September 17, 2008
at 09:37 AM
Report this commentPlease note that your British Government has also
systematically disarmed the citizenry so that you are unable to defend
your Country and yourselves. That is way in the U.S. we hold our
Second Amendment to the Constitution sacred. The right to keep and
Bear Arms shall not be infringed"
Mike Evans
on September 17, 2008
at 09:37 AM
Report this commentHoward of London, you call it anti-secular action
to allow Sharia law. But it is secular fools who believe in
multiculturalism and have espoused it. In their disdain for
Christianity, the secular/atheists have given their land over to Islam
to dilute Christianity. Secular fools are responsible for this
notwithstanding the Archbishop of Canterbury's approving gestures.
Religion and ethnicity are what bind a people. If not ethnicity, then
certainly religion. If you denigrate one or both, you got little to
nothing binding you as a people except degeneracy. In that, the
Moslems are correct of modern "Western values". Like it or not,
religion binds!
Dear Proud Teen, you say they should leave the country if they don't
accept the laws. But why should they if they want to conquer it?
History tells us that Saxons entered into Mexico not to join them but
to take it--which they did when Texas became a Republic. Later it
joined the USA. Are the Moslems any different in their tactic? I'm not
saying that every single one of them are necessarily conspiring--some
of them are. But events take on a life of their own.
Personally, its a sad thing to see the demise of a country at the
hands of its own people but that is exactly what I see happening to
Britain. The Moslems could never have done what they are doing unless
they were empowered by fools in the majority. Britain was a good
country ruined by secularism. The Moslems imposing Sharia Law are just
filling the vacuum.
Signing the Treaty of Libson is just another act to destroy the UK
done not by Moslems but by fellow Brits.
Mohan Sharma
on September 17, 2008
at 09:34 AM
Report this commentI wonder when the British gave up thr will to live.
You are a great nation, I fear you will soon face murder and public
execution by the religion of peace. Winston Churchill would slap the
whole country and ask " HAVE YOU ALL GONE MAD".
Kristopher daniel U.S.A
on September 17, 2008
at 09:26 AM
Report this commentBritain better wake up and fast! This is the first
"domino" in the fall of the empire.
Tony- U.S.A.
on September 17, 2008
at 09:01 AM
Report this commentTypical response by a weak and frankly pathetic
elite defended as a few of the comments here show by the usual
claptrap arguments, the point and simple fact ist that the muslim
community as in theis country and abroad shown in it self with every
passing month to be more and more deeply involved in an undeclared was
against the west and our way of life, one that allows fools of all
sort to spout their rubbish in public, sadly though our spineless
leaders seem to think the continual little surrenders to the bullys is
the answer when ever attacked verbally or actually, seeminging to miss
the point that this only encourages further aggression, we have a way
of lfe the that for good or ill is our way in our little part of the
world, it is on ethat hers matured over the centurys and in more
recent times has opened up the door to all sections of our society,a
way of life we were once proud off , one we once fought to defend
arguablyt as recently as 1982, yet all of a sudden, it is deemed by
the left that other cultures and views should now find a home here,
views that will, in time become a direct threat to our way of life, if
those who defend this can not see this then more fool them for this
will ne merely thentip of the iceburg believe me, after all it must be
remembered that there our many here and thousand abroad who being part
of this religionm and its culture believe themselves tpo be at war
with the decandent west, so how can this be anything more the a small
but significant victory, one all the more remarkable given that islam
is an entirely alian and imported relgion with little if any cultural,
social, historical or political ties to the island ofBritain. I can
not imagine a nation with more self respect eevn considering such a
craven act, can any one consider such a thing in previous time of
conflict and in relation to a comparatively recent minority. They will
see this and push for more mark my words and what may seem impossible
even crazy now will not once the lambs start to bleat their usual
litnay of compromise and tolerance and then another surrender will
happen,
Labour you are a total disgrace and do not deserve the honour and
privelege of running this country which you so happily and readily
betray at every opportunity
lilburne
on September 16, 2008
at 11:46 PM
Report this commentThis has been coming for a long time and it
signifies that this government and the law lords that are enabling
this to happen have totally lost the plot. This action is so
significant to the stability and one law for all that it can not go
unchallenged. If ever there was a case for a referendum so that the
people can rule if this is to be allowed or not, then this must be it.
Of course, we have been cheated out of our say on Europe already so I
hold little hope that the current administration will heed the will of
the people, but the Tories must now make a stand and make this a
fundemental part of their manifesto to enable to people to have their
say. Once this is allowed to pass without challenge one can see a
progresive decline into Sharia law for huge segments of Britain, and
then we will have other ethnic groups who wish for separate laws for
their own particular reasons because they will have legal precedent to
base their claim. Britain as we know it is doomed, unless we can
removed this traitorous government and replace it with one that will
actual represent the will of the people.
keith manton
on September 16, 2008
at 11:45 PM
Report this commentIf you want to live under sharia law then why live
here? There are plenty of other countries that do practice it, and I'm
sure they'd be more than happy to have those who wish to live under
sharia law there!
Lydia, London
on September 16, 2008
at 11:45 PM
Report this commentwhy do people like these persist in trying to
subvert the BRITISH justice system?
they came here, we are their adopted nation, in all except law it
seems. they cannot be allowed to pick and choose what parts of our
country they want to adhere to, they should be all British or no
British.
And now some schools cannot teach aout Christmas or Easter for fear of
offending anyone of a differing viewpoint.
GROW SOME, we, a once proud country are being brought to our knees by
a MINORITY!!! why can nobody see it??
If they don't like our laws, or any other part of our country then
they should leave, rather than change the country to suit them.
Whatever happened to the MAJORITY being listened to?
Brit-and-proud teen
on September 16, 2008
at 11:45 PM
Report this commentWell, as I recall, British law is the foundation of
legal systems throughout the English-speaking world.
If we are going to have another standard, perhaps the rest of us
should be advised!
As far as I can tell, shira law is based on (what appears to be
perverted) islamic statements.
Where, in our society, is there room for religious pronouncements?
Thanks, Arnold
Arnold Benson
on September 16, 2008
at 11:44 PM
Report this commentWhen will the majority learn that ALL religion
poisons human minds.
Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Sikh, it's all the same garbage. From time
immemorial, humans have invented gods and myths in attempts to explain
the unexplainable, and to control the citizenry. Wake up people and
realize that there is NO AUTHORITY on these matters. You must come
upon it for yourselves.
Kempy
on September 16, 2008
at 11:44 PM
Report this commentAmericans get ready to lock and load! What is
happening to our proud British cousins may be coming to a town near
you! Brits - stand and fight! Don't let the PC, multicult, foreign
invaders take your country and heritage from you. We're behind you!
Miranda Rights - USA
on September 16, 2008
at 11:44 PM
Report this commentThe British government (and opposition) have to
make some choices soon.
If this anti-secular stupidity and the loss of privacy and freedom are
not stopped and indeeed reversed, there will be bloody revolution and
the fear of terrorism will be raised by ordinary British people and
not by religious fundamentalists.
Howard, London
on September 16, 2008
at 11:43 PM
Report this commentWelcome to the United Kingdom Of Allah....bunch of
idiots!
john
on September 16, 2008
at 11:42 PM
Report this commentIf two Christians are in dispute, the Bible urges
them to settle things by arbitration within the church, saying that it
is shameful to go to a "pagan" court. (read 1 Corinthians Ch 6).
I can understand that Muslims feel the same way.
But this biblical passage does reluctantly accept the possibility of a
believer resorting to the civil courts and does not challenge the
right to do so.
Binding arbitration outside a court is often practised, with the prior
agreement of both parties. That mutual agreement, free of undue
pressure, is an important distinction and safeguard, which I hope is
not being removed.
Colin Burn
on September 16, 2008
at 11:42 PM
Report this commentThose focussing on the violent aspects of sharia
are in danger of allowing sharia-favourers to set up a straw man: in
reality, there is very little danger of stonings, etc. in the UK.
The real dangers are more subtle, and in some way all the more serious
for that. Others have mentioned 'Islamisation-creep', the basic
affront to principles of equality and the notion of 1 society = a
shared justice system. There's also the impact on society of these
judgments. Take the women who inherit less than a secular court would
give them, and who perhaps can't/won't go out to work because they're
looking after children (especially given that this is pretty much
taken for granted in Islamic tenets). Chances are that the welfare
state will take up the slack of looking after them; had they received
a different settlement under a secular ruling, it might not have to.
Taking indirect effects into account, it may well be the exception
rather than the norm that what's decided in a 'community' affects only
that 'community'.
Finally, a word for those who pipe up that a) anyone is free to choose
how they settle a dispute and b) the Jews do it already. Yes, I could
choose to use Mongolian law to settle a dispute with my local
shopkeeper--but I wouldn't be asking anyone else to officially
SANCTION this choice, nor would there be concerns that my 'community'
was pressuring me. Secondly, don't assume that anyone against sharia
does agree with 'state approval' for other religious tribunals. As a
secularist, if the Flying Spaghetti Monsterists wanted their own
court, I'd be equally opposed.
worldoftofuness
on September 16, 2008
at 11:42 PM
Report this commentRIP United Kingdom
Born: 1707
Died: 2008
Steve
on September 16, 2008
at 11:41 PM
Report this commentFools!
MG
on September 16, 2008
at 11:41 PM
Report this commentHoward said it all - ' Immigrants, not Britons must
adapt - take it or leave it'.
As a true Tory I would follow that statement right to the wire, and
beyond it if necessary.
I have no problem with people following religions other than
Christianity, and nor do I dislike people of other races; however this
is Britain, OUR country that was forged over two thousand years and
more of colonisation, integration and homogenisation of many diverse
races and creeds.
We accept that others think differently, but I for one will not sit
around and let MY country, that I fought for, be changed into a
multinational state of the EU,or be forced into accepting the radical
laws of religious fanatics.
If said fanatics don't like it, that's tough; pick up your P45 at the
ferry and go find somewhere else to conquer - we're not having any!
JB.
Johnny Bramham
on September 16, 2008
at 11:41 PM
Report this commentI would gladly support the BNP if it was not for
the fact that other law-abiding ethnic minorities would suffer if
their party gained power. I just hope that Labour will get kicked out
soon, and the next government will have listened to the concerns of
the mainstream British public about this matter, and put a stop to all
this Sharia nonsense. Hitler didn't beat us and neither will the
Muslims.
Mel
on September 16, 2008
at 11:41 PM
Report this commentThe UK was lost b4 this ! We have become a nation
of Immigrants ! This happened shortly after the collapse of the berlin
wall. Dont worry Islam is just a small part of our downfall. We are
currently being hit by wave after wave of foreigners. Where I worked
15 years ago we were all British (80 workers) Now we are less than 10.
No pay rise in 9 years! Why give us a pay rise when an African will do
the same job 4 less ! :( God help us!
Steve England
on September 16, 2008
at 11:41 PM
Report this commentRise up Britain. Set an example for the rest of the
world, or you will be an example.
Jackal
on September 16, 2008
at 11:40 PM
Report this commentI have been following the unfolding Muslim
influence in your country for several years now. As an American, I
cannot fathom how your government would allow dual judicial systems.
Giving known terrorist havens, housing and welfare benefits is beyond
belief. It is apparent that some Muslims have an aggressive agenda as
to how your country is to be governed; this division of powers will
create at first a subtle effect, then a very sinister threat within
the UK.
Kathy NJ - USA
on September 16, 2008
at 11:40 PM
Report this commentYou Brits need to step up to the plate.
Steve LewisUSA
on September 16, 2008
at 11:40 PM
Report this commentNext thing you know, the heathens will try to make
Helena Bonham Carter wear a burka.
Steve LewisUSA
on September 16, 2008
at 11:40 PM
Report this commentIt is too bad that Richard The Lion Heart had to
fail in his efforts at retaking the holy land. Islam has now returned
to venerable England by open invitation. Is this the beginning of the
end of western civilization? Time will tell but the world is filled
with daily examples of the brutality of Islam. Letting Sharia Law run
parallel with British Law...true "Insanity."
Don Wright
on September 16, 2008
at 11:40 PM
Report this commentHappy days!
Habeeb
on September 16, 2008
at 11:40 PM
Report this commentOswald Spengler's "The Decline of the West" laid
out the program to be followed by Socialists for breaking down
National Sovereignty as told by retired MI-5 agent, Dr. John Coleman,
in his book on the Tavistock Institute.
Primarily, the West's decline is prompted by its catering to foreign
immigrants. We all know that it is the immigrants who MUST adapt to
OUR ways, or else they should leave.
But we are not unified in the Christian faith. The Queen is the
nominal head of the Anglican church. Why do the Royals permit this? I
submit it's because they WANT this to happen.
Dear Brits, HOLD your leaders accountable, or stop paying taxes!
Michael - USA
on September 16, 2008
at 11:39 PM
Report this commentMark my words, this can only end in disaster. I see
mass violence and civil war erupting throughout Britain, just as Enoch
Powell predicted. I encourage true Patriotic Brits to rise up now and
take back your country, before the bloodletting begins.
Wyatt (USA)
on September 16, 2008
at 11:38 PM
Report this commentThere's no England anymore!!!
jk
on September 16, 2008
at 11:38 PM
Report this commentWhen do Islamic nations set up western tribunals?
Do the British people have a backbone. I have seen this cancerous
erosion of your country escalte over the past few years at a
tremendous pace. The foundation of a nation, including the culture and
laws are not meant to bend to every religious wing in the world.
Especially one with such a reputation. Just tear down the borders
already. First the Euro and now this.
R Krebs
on September 16, 2008
at 11:38 PM
Report this commentTHIS ON THE SAME NEWS DAY THAT WE READ ABOUT THE
AUCTIONING OFF OF WWII PILOT EDWARD EGAN'S PERSONAL EFFECTS. HE DIED
AT AGE 19 PROTECTING BRITAIN'S FREEDOM.
HERE IN AMERICA WE COLONISTS HAD A WORD FOR THROWING OFF FOREIGN
ENTANGLEMENTS: REVOLUTION!
GO FOR IT, BRITS!
RISE UP!
FIGHT THIS JUNK!
FLEUR FROMME
on September 16, 2008
at 07:15 PM
Report this commentHow appalling. Britain should not be allowing
Sharia law nor Jewish law. This should be stopped immediately.
Mariam
on September 16, 2008
at 07:15 PM
Report this commentThere should be only one secular law, devoid of any
religious and dogmatic pollination and pollution. By giving Jewish
people such civil courts, how then can Sharia Law be denied? Isn't
that a form of discrimination? Either abolish all such cuckoo
religious courts, or allow them all, but don't show preferential
treatment for some "chosen" people. In fact, given the huge
similarities between Jewish/Islamic law, why not just create a new
Jewslamic civil court system that covers both? Granted, if you go to a
Muslim country, e.g. Saudi Arabia, home of the two holiest cities in
Islam, and ask to have a civil court system based on Christian
theology set up, you will be lucky to leave the country with your head
still attached to your torso, but I digress. There was some talk of
Sharia Law in Ontario, Canada, but thankfully, I believe that
ridiculous notion has been ejected (for now).
Canada Rayman
on September 16, 2008
at 07:14 PM
Report this commentWhen I was born, the UK was a non-Islamic
country... Now it has started to become one - and is becoming
increasingly Islamic.
I reject Islam. It has no place in my country or in Europe.
All the mainstream parties and the media are to blame. They have
funded, supported and applauded the Islamization of my country.
You will have my opinion at the European election and at the general
election.
Stefan Petov
on September 16, 2008
at 06:15 PM
Report this commentThe Death of the West!!!!!
American Mike in CA
on September 16, 2008
at 06:14 PM
Report this commentEvery time that the government to which I now give
my allegiance appalls me, I look back and find that the one I
abandoned is doing worse.
The danger in recognising Sharia (and Talmudic) courts is NOT that
they will rule. It is that Christian (so-called) law will be invoked.
We've got a bunch here in the USA who'd take us back to the days of
religious warfare, and you Brits should take a quick look at Northern
Ireland, where a few genuine brave liberals are, plagued by a few
fanatics on both sides, and a host of misguided followers.
There is nothing liberal about religious appeasement.
Albert Rogers
on September 16, 2008
at 06:14 PM
Report this commentAs an American observing the developments in Great
Britain, I can only hope that the United States learns lessons from
the mistakes of their European brethren. British laws and
parliamentary government have had a positive influence on every
continent for centuries, only to have the origin country become
regressive with Sharia laws. Simply stunning.
Joseph Kennedy
on September 16, 2008
at 06:14 PM
Report this commentDoes anybody in this stream remember the Mau Mau in
Kenya? At the time just before Kenya was 'liberated' from British
rule, I was told that one of the native customs precious to the
supporters of the terrorists was "female circumcision", a practice now
known as FGM, female genital mutilation. Christian influence
generally, and as a matter of fact to the present day, opposed this
custom. As an atheist now, I still applaud this stance, and wonder why
the Archbishop cannot see that not all traditional customs deserve
respect.
Not Cecil Rhodes
on September 16, 2008
at 06:14 PM
Report this commentHas Cameron (or any significant Tory) commented on
this yet ?
chris
on September 16, 2008
at 05:32 PM
Report this commentI think people are jumping on their high horses all
too soon - some comments are talking about stoning adulterers and
apostates and what not - Can't you morons distinguish between CIVIL
law and CRIMINAL law (penal code) ??
Just as the Jewish community have enjoyed (for roughly over 100 years)
is religious courts which accomodate their civil law - covering such
things as inheritance, divorce and marriage and family disputes etc.
And I don't see the DOUBLE STANDARDS with regards to the Islamic
inheritance laws - when the Jewish inheritance laws are so similar -
and are operating HERE in UK since many many many years!
The laws of (Jewish) inheritance are numerous and complex. The
following are the basic rules:
*If a man dies, his possessions are divided by his sons. His wife can
either take her Ketubah (financial compensation should the marriage be
terminated through divorce or widowhood) or can live off her husband's
estate for as long as she wishes.
*If there is a firstborn son, he receives a double portion.
*The daughters are supported off their father's estate until they get
married.
*Each daughter receives a dowry from the father's estate.
*If there aren't any sons, the estate passes to the daughters.
*If a woman dies, her husband inherits all her possessions.
*If she has no husband, her sons (or daughters, if there aren't any
sons) inherit her possessions.
*If one doesn't have any children (or grand-children) the estate goes
to the deceased's father.
*If the deceased doesn't have a father, the estate goes to the
deceased's brothers ( sisters, if there aren't any brothers) or, if
they are no longer alive, their descendants.
So what about gender equality in Jewish civil law which as I said is
long established in UK - doe they match British values too?
Enough with the double standards already.
ronin
on September 16, 2008
at 05:27 PM
Report this commentThis country is totally wrecked, it will never be
put back right.
John Jones
on September 16, 2008
at 05:26 PM
Report this commentThere is only one course of action you MUST vote
BNP to save the country no one else will do what need to be done
sydney hobson
on September 16, 2008
at 05:25 PM
Report this commentDis-bloody-gusting!!!
Does anyone have the stones to do something about this utter
madness??
I think we should make Al Murray head of immigration.SERIOUSLY!!!!
Extreme times call for extreme measures.....
ps I wonder what our allies are thinking about this hash? After all
theres still a war going on and were fighting for their democracy
whilst there fighting to have ours removed.
It seems that now theyve messed up their country they want to re-
colonise ours.......
This sensitivity has to stop and if they dont like it then GO
HOME!!!!
Max
on September 16, 2008
at 05:25 PM
Report this commentlooks like labour got the muslim vote then. They
gotta stay in some how.
ian uk
on September 16, 2008
at 05:17 PM
Report this commentThe Sun Has Now Set On The British Empire
vin
on September 16, 2008
at 05:17 PM
Report this commentNo wonder we have lost faith in our politicians
when they cannot even protect the laws that generations of British
people have fought and died for.This loophole should be plugged
immediately and those who advocate it sent to live in countries with
sharia law.
Maureen Marr
on September 16, 2008
at 05:17 PM
Report this commentWell, no need to obey laws in Britain anymore,
since we now have the go-ahead to make up our rules as we go along.
Sweet anarchy, here I come!
Roland
on September 16, 2008
at 05:03 PM
Report this commentAnd to think we are so culturally sensitive, i.e.,
we don't use the n........word. we don't call women b......, we
attempt to be multicultural at all costs, but sharia law is the path
back to the stone age. How ridiculous!
Jay Ferguson
on September 16, 2008
at 05:03 PM
Report this commentAbout the ending: of course the women withdrew the
complaints!!!
What happened ? They were muslim women who had the courage of going to
the police, and... the answer was to send them back to a sharia
court!
Under the sharia law, a man is allowed to beat her wife for many
reasons. Also, if she ever divorces and then has sex without being
married to a new man... then, nevertheless the fact that she is
divorced she is still guilty of adultery, the sentence of which is
being stoned. Under sharia law, a woman must always obey to a man, her
father, then her current or even last husband if divorced.
Being sent to a sharia court under this circumstances means for these
women: no hope, just shut up or you'll have real problems. This is
what they did.
You UK people have a real problem now I think.
MRL
on September 16, 2008
at 05:03 PM
Report this commentPlease kick these folks out before the country is
LOST
Max Headroom
on September 16, 2008
at 05:01 PM
Report this commentWhat a pity! The once Great Britain. Listen. The
warning signs have been all over and you guys chose to ignore them.
Now live with it as the rest of Europe, indeed the western civilized
world, will have to do if they don't wake up.
joe from usa
on September 16, 2008
at 05:01 PM
Report this commentEngland and France are dead. In 20 years they will
both be unrecognizable muslim territories. Worse, the taxpayers of
both countries are currently paying for the entire non-violent
takeover with cold, hard cash. The USA is not far behind: Let's hope
we wake up and learn from the tragic lessons of these formerly great
countries...
Global Warmer
on September 16, 2008
at 05:00 PM
Report this commentHas Britain gone completely mad with PC run amok?
You want sharia law go back to a Muslim country. That's the problem
with the immigrants nowadays they want to come to your great country
and impose the crap they're running from. If your country is so
great...STAY!
Bill
on September 16, 2008
at 04:56 PM
Report this commentYou have become the weakest, most stupid group of
morons to populate an island, you do not deserve to claim it as
England....I am ashamed of my heritage. To allow this is the beginning
of the end, try referencing "the enemy within" a Chinese strategy to
defeat an enemy by infiltration, it's only been around for centuries.
Somebody please stand up and be English and stop this stupidity.
Long Gone
on September 16, 2008
at 04:56 PM
Report this commentYou've opened a door that won't be so easy to shut
again. To judge from the comments here, those upset by Sharia courts
can't wait to quit the country, so I suppose the game's over. But
speaking as an American, I'd prefer that you stand and fight at least
a little before you run away. We have enough native-born cowards of
our own, thanks.
charles USA
on September 16, 2008
at 04:56 PM
Report this commentIt wont be long till the United Kingdom is renamed
'the Islamic Kingdom of the UK'. We are no longer a Christian country.
Shame on the people of the UK to allow this to happen. I emigrated 16
yrs ago and will never return to the UK. I am ashamed to be British.
Alan Boydell
on September 16, 2008
at 04:56 PM
Report this commentWhat right have I to condemn Sharia Law? I know
very little about it. At the end of the day, if people decide to go
through Sharia-led courts to find judgement, they are doing so because
this works for them. If the legal system here in the UK was so
brilliant (or anywhere else in the world for that matter) then legal
teams from here would be able to argue. Just look at our prisons. Look
at the funding issues faced by forces such as LINCOLNSHIRE POLICE. To
the comments above, look deeper than the correspondent wants you to.
Try to find elements of understanding in other customs - understanding
and education eradicate fear - so get an education before slinging
condemnation!
Lyn Strydom
on September 16, 2008
at 04:56 PM
Report this commentNot more than a year ort so ago the following was
reported world wide. Where is there a British politician who would
dare to say the saem?
"Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on
Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals
in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to
Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John
Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face
a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to
Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the
country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and
its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if
you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then
Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.
"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws
governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another
Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law,
independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have
the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps,
then, that's a better option", Costello said."
Ken Latter
on September 16, 2008
at 04:55 PM
Report this commentHaha !! this is ludicrous ! Political correctness
gone mad ! What has happened to Great Britain....... When I lived in
England I noticed that the whole system was geared towards helping
immigrants from outside Europe (let me make that clear) as the
government has no problem in being critical towards eastern europeans
or the French for example ! This is a wake up call for all Brits to
unite and vote for a party that will sort out this grave problem -
UKIP / BNP, or maybe the Tories should take a harder line and stop
bowing to these liberal bullies !!
dominic de booer
on September 16, 2008
at 04:54 PM
Report this commentThis is truly a sad turn of events. As an American
- I am proud of our British inheritance and the benefits of the
Scottish Enlightenment. To see the fountainhead of the Anglo-Saxon
tradition bow down to the false ideologies of multi-culturalism and
political correctness is a shame. When will the British recognize the
inherent imperialism in Islam - they want to conquer and convert.
Don't you British see the value of your own country and culture.
Here me from Virginia - Fight, resist, live as free men not servants
of corrupt politicians!
Fight.
AllDayInVirginia
on September 16, 2008
at 04:54 PM
Report this commentLinda, you misunderstand me.
This outrageous attempt to appease the Fundamentalist Islamists
totally vindicates Nick Griffin, and will certainly lead to a
considerable increase in his share of the poll come the next General
Election
Apart from setting the cause of women's rights back to the Middle
Ages, it sets an extremely dangerous precedent in that there are now
two separate legal systems operating in this country.
David Walker
on September 16, 2008
at 04:54 PM
Report this commentBoy, the devil is laughing at us right now. This is
what comes of not following God in all things. Islam is allowed to
proliferate. It is tolerated, and even admired, while the formerly
Christian society crumbles and dies. If each individual person did
what God wanted them to, none of this would be an issue. (And I don't
mean what the corrupt church wants them to, I mean God Himself. Read
your Bibles!)
Emily H
on September 16, 2008
at 04:53 PM
Report this commentThis is the beginning of the second British Civil
War, it will turn out to be a long and bitter one.
Richard T. Ketchum
on September 16, 2008
at 04:53 PM
Report this commentSharia law, legally binding or not, is now used -
how long before it IS legally binding for all?
But I digress.
We have Hindu and Muslim schools. Our children are taught to celebrate
Diwali and Eid but are not allowed Christmas decorations or plays. How
is all this fair?
Of course I'd be allowed to DEMAND British Law in Pakistan or Saudi.
On a personal note I am sick of (and very angry about) Muslim men
wandering around ladies' fitting rooms in department stores with
impunity because everyone is terrified to tell them it is WRONG no
matter IF their wives are in there.
Antonia
on September 16, 2008
at 04:52 PM
Report this commentMay be the hindus and other religions in UK should
have their own courts then. How can this Government allows this. UNder
the Laws of this land we should be all equal and dealt with by the
same court of law. If paople feel that they need Sharia law to be
judged then they should get out of UK and live somewhere where they
can be judged this way. I blame this Goverment for allowing this. What
next? Please Mr Brown act as a prime minister!
navin sungum
on September 16, 2008
at 04:51 PM
Report this commentTo those who argue that this is nothing more than
simple arbitration.. the jews and everyone else has been afforded the
same opportunities... mark your words, because this is only the
beginning.
Islamofascists are nothing if not patient. This is the foot in the
door. You give them an inch, theyll take it, sit silently for some
time, and then inch forward with their plans for converting each and
everyone of you to their religion. They will use your own courts
against you. They will call you fascists, racists, dismember your
right to free speech unless what you speak is in the name of Allah.
Here in America, CAIR has already begun its work on that very
strategy. Dr. Michael Savage, a respected but firm radio talk show
host, has already been forced to fight a very expensive legal battle
just to stay on air, because these people denounce him for speaking
out against this very kind of thing. He almost lost. If not for the
donations of hundreds of thousands of Americans, CAIR would have
succeeded.
This is INDEED a slippery slope you liberals are treading, with your
false tolerance. Wake up. These people are hell bent on converting you
to Islam and taking over each and every corner of the globe. And your
dissent from the patriots of your country will shoulder the ltimate
responsibility for allowing it to happen right under your noses.
I am greatly disheartened for the majority of my brothers across the
pond, those who love their country and the principles IT WAS
ORIGINALLY FOUNDED UPON. But blind liberals, you will get what is
coming to you and I will have no sympathy. America will fight for you,
but I say why? You invite this upon yourselves because you are naive
and hateful of those who are your only friends.
You've read the comments on this page from those who follow Islam.
They say your law is outdated, it needs to go. They call for expanding
Sharia law. As I stated before, this "arbitration" is only the
beginning.
kittridge
on September 16, 2008
at 04:51 PM
Report this commentFREEDOM OF CHOICE
You are either freed by ideas or enslaved by them. Who is your real
enemy? The one who is mislead or the one who is misleading? In whose
name are murders committed? Certainly not by a loving, compassionate
and benevolent God.
Muslims believe their Book to be sacred and holy, and some are
fanatical followers of their Prophet. They curse in His name, kidnap,
torture, maim and murder in the name of their God and Prophet. The
Clerics set themselves up as supreme judges and control through
intimidation and fear. Perpetuating a totalitarian regime. Muslims
hate non believers, and despise other Islamic sects. It is written in
their Book that all they who believe in the Supreme Being are
acceptable to the Muslim community. It is also written that even if
your neighbor is not a Muslim, if that neighbor seeks your help, you
as a Muslim are duty bound to aid that neighbor. And a Muslim is
responsible for his deeds and actions to his community, and his
community is also responsible for his actions.
Muslims, you call yourselves true believers, yet make yourselves blind
and deaf as innocents are tortured and slaughtered. By your refusal to
aid and save others from unspeakable crimes in the name of your Allah,
you have proven yourselves to be the followers of a false religion,
born in violence, deceit, and heartless, brutal conquest.
What crime were the Zoroastrians guilty of that they should have been
slaughtered in the name of Allah. The followers of the Prophet
Zoroaster believed in the One True God when you were nothing more than
desert nomads, vagabonds, thieves, scavenging murderers and idle
worshipers.
In Cyrus The Greats province, there was no hateful discrimination,
segregation or isolation. There was no totalitarian theocracy.
Your religious fanatics and radicals have turned your Allah into a
merciless, brutal butcher God! Whatever happened to Allah the merciful
and compassionate? By your hanis actions have you layed the groundwork
for your own total destruction. By your blind sightedness and total
lack of humanitarian intervention have you isolated yourselves from
the family of man and God's chosen.
Yours is a jihad, a holy war against all non believers.
Martin Shane GoldStein
on September 16, 2008
at 04:50 PM
Report this commentBritain offered a hand and they took an arm. Same
as when the first settlers arrived in the Americas.We offered them
food and they took our land.
Barbara
on September 16, 2008
at 04:48 PM
Report this commentOk., now I have heard it all. If the Muslims are
allowed to have their own court system, then all other groups in the
country will also claim to be entitled to the same.
Whatever happened to one of the greatest and most powerful nation in
the world? Oh, I forgot, we are giving it away. Let's forget all the
men and women that have given their lives to protect their country?
Are they to have died defending Britain for naught?
Let's just give this country to this group of people that are so
intent on killing Britons.
This is getting ridiculous!!!
MBR
on September 16, 2008
at 04:48 PM
Report this commentBritains sun has set.....when a nation allow an
evil force to be set up(and they have no regard for anyone).....all I
got to say is... appeasement never save your buns....Islamics do not
care!!!
Cher
on September 16, 2008
at 04:47 PM
Report this commentThis is a disaster of historical levels.
To allow a dual legal system is doomed to failure. It formalizes a
minority class which may not be the minority for long. At this time it
is limited to civil law but what happens when these same people want
criminal courts. A divided house can not stand.
In Saudi Arabia which practices Sharia Law woman can�t vote or drive;
Bibles are outlawed; a flight attendant was arrested for wearing a
gold cross around her neck.
In Iran, homosexuals or people accused of being homosexuals are
hanged. Women can be arrested if their hair is not properly covered.
In Britain�?
Call your MP and fight this to the end.
RJ
on September 16, 2008
at 04:35 PM
Report this commentLooks like political correctness and typical
liberal crap to me. YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELVES!!now deal
with it.
marine43
on September 16, 2008
at 02:16 PM
Report this commentWhat's the problem? Its just standard arbitration.
It prevents people going through a lengthy and expensive court case.
The construction industry encourged similar pratices in their
contracts to prevent cases going to court.
Vinay
on September 16, 2008
at 02:15 PM
Report this commentSo all these muslims will be given a choice of
which law they would abide by. I suspect British law when it comes
down to murder, theft and drugs. They will then get off with a slap on
the wrist by our weak willed judges. Not the beheading or chopped off
wrist if found guilty under sharia law. Then the choice is sharia if
it involves womens rights, divorce or so called "honour" killings. How
would terrorist offences be judged?
The lunatics now run the asylum
Chris Collier
on September 16, 2008
at 02:15 PM
Report this commentI doubt that the consent of a woman to have an
arbitration case dealt with by a court which is in principle biased
against her, is given with due care and consideration. Rather there is
an enormous risk of social pressure to submit (islam after all means
submission) to the sharia courts. Women in the islamic community
should be protected against this sort of arbitration. It will only
make it harder for them to integrate into society without breaking all
links with family.
Vincent
on September 16, 2008
at 02:15 PM
Report this commentI was not earlier supporting the BNP, but boy oh
boy, I think they are our only chance now. Great Britain - you must be
joking...
john
on September 16, 2008
at 02:12 PM
Report this commentIs this Brown trying to get the BNP elected? More
stupidity like this and we are heading for BNP controlled councils and
start to get BNP MPs.
FatPat
on September 16, 2008
at 02:08 PM
Report this commentHas this country gone completely barking mad? Where
on earth are the people of sanity? Is there anyone left to take a lead
on these matters of historical impact.
There seems only to be fools left to steer this country into oblivion
- keep playing the violins chaps while your very substance is sucked
dry by the purveyors of delusion based on evil intent.
Kanchenjunga
on September 16, 2008
at 01:38 PM
Report this commentWe CANNOT have this. Islamic law has no place in
the western world. Write to you MP, Gordon Brown, David Cameron. Get
rid of this government. It is time to stop this bowing down to
Muslims. If they want this law they should move to an islamic state. I
do not want mine and all womens rights to revert back to mediveal
times. STOP THIS. We need to protest before islamic law denies our
right to. If we don't we are F****D.
Dawn
on September 16, 2008
at 01:37 PM
Report this commentEngland? Lemme recall, wasn't that the proud
country ruling waves and all that?
But don't let it worry you; my country (Holland) is defenitily going
in the same direction.
Civil war in England? Forget it! Civil war in all of western Europe;
and lots of people migrating to the East and Asia where the
governments still know how to handle religeous fanatics who carry the
wish of taking over their country.
nightowl
on September 16, 2008
at 01:37 PM
Report this commentThere's no choice then - its got to be the BNP.
doris
on September 16, 2008
at 01:35 PM
Report this commentSadly, there's no choice then - its got to be the
BNP.
doris
on September 16, 2008
at 01:35 PM
Report this commentOh, my poor England, the light has definitely gone
out in our once beautiful land. Who is left to guide our young ones
through the poison fumes of a secular society. The church of England
has reneged on its God given job of feeding the spiritually starved by
bending its knee to the false god,evolution and now the spineless so
called "leaders" of this once great nation have sold their souls and
the future of our people into the bondage and intolerance of a people
who hate and depise our very existence. God, have mercy on us all.
Ann Ireland
on September 16, 2008
at 01:35 PM
Report this commentit is SAD , relly SAD that tis can even happen .
when i went to Germany i learned it and went by the law of the land .
why do we let people come from all countries , and all we want from
them is to learn the laws of the land , but that is not happening any
more . all the people from the south of texas just comming on in like
we are just the NEW MEXICO and just keep doing here what they did in
there own country . yes i see it comming here too but we STILL HAVE
TIME !!!!!! SAY NOBAMMA SAVE OUR GREAT COUNTRY
paul
on September 16, 2008
at 01:35 PM
Report this commentEngland permits invasion by Muslims. Make no
mistake Permitting Sharea is the same as Endorsing that law because
the act speaks for its' self, i.e. British Common Law, is apparently
inadequate to manage daily life. What next? Betty get your Berka on.
My word, I thought Briton ended slavery even before America did? It
seems to be returning. Left wing tolerance is allowing the slow
takeover of the England of Winston Churchill. Deplorable! Don't look
now but there is a huge Boa Constrictor snake slowly and relentlessly
squeezing the Freedom out of British culture, hard won since the year
1215.
Stephen Straight
on September 16, 2008
at 01:34 PM
Report this commentI'm appalled, saddened, but more than anything
ashamed that this has happened in the land of The Rule of Law. British
people, please DO something about it, the way you are going in a
couple of decades it will be the Islamic Republic of Britain that
we'll talk about. If Hitler and Goering had known that they only had
to convert to Islam to defeat you... wake up, react, cherish your
culture.
I'm a 3rd generation Brit living in the US now, and can't believe this
is true. WAKE UP!
roland
on September 16, 2008
at 01:34 PM
Report this commentThe most disgusting form of justice and the Brits
are allowing this to happen? This is what happens in former democratic
countries when your guns are taken away. The socialists/marxists run
roughshod over you and you can't fight back. America will never give
up it's guns. They will fight to preserve their way of life and never
allow the Islamofascists the opportunity to treat men different than
women. England must rise up and throw the Islamofascists out before
they are over run.
Big Mike
on September 16, 2008
at 01:33 PM
Report this commentI'm thinking of starting an English National Party,
a party to look after the interests of the English people. For too
long we have suffered in silence as we get the raw deal from almost
every decision made by the "government" and i reckon enough is
enough.
Anyone want to join??????
James Cambs
on September 16, 2008
at 01:33 PM
Report this commentAs a gay woman I am fearful for Muslim homosexuals
(yes, they do exist). Whilst I'm sure Britain would not allow the
death penalty, the impact of this process must be horrendous & will in
some cases lead to suicide (families could push people into agreeing
to this kind of trial). Also being allowed to hate in certain
circumstances will surely spill over to other areas of some Muslim
peoples lives & lead to continued violence/intimidation of the LGBT
community. British/Shariah law will become blurred.
Scared
on September 16, 2008
at 01:33 PM
Report this commentAs a Canadian/English dual passport holder, we came
from Yorkshire in 1956, I am appalled at the trend in England today.
In no way should Sharia courts exist in this country - let alone have
enforceable judgements. There has been 1 english law starting with
Magna Carta that has been the basis for most codes in western
democracies and this, British law, should be all that is used by all
inhabitants. We recently defeated a sharia law proposal in
Ontario....rights of women were a major reason for this. I think it is
time for the government to convert a few million pounds in welfare
benefits into 1 way tickets to the middle east and farther.
If you don't like the laws & customs ...STAY HOME!
Peter Straw
on September 16, 2008
at 01:33 PM
Report this commentThat's it !!!! The final straw for me. I've been a
card carrying member of the Labour Party for 37 yrs - but no more.
I am cancelling my membership and have today sent of my application to
join the BNP.
I don't care HOW un-PC that is to some, I am really scared for my
grandchildrens' futures in this country because of the never ending
increase in the influence of Islam and the pro-Islamists in the Labour
Party.
Sorry about this all you Guardianistas, but - Nick Griffin for PM!!!
paul the Bus driver
on September 16, 2008
at 01:33 PM
Report this commentI'm assuming this is some kind of Joke.
You may as well have led with the headline: "Great Britain liquidated,
files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy of substance"
If the law, in some mind boggling way, allows this then it needs to be
changed now with emergency legislation.
Any politician not outraged by this is, in my opinion, an enemy of
this country and treasonous to the sovereign.
Frank Vernor
on September 16, 2008
at 01:31 PM
Report this commentYou Brits have beaten us! I always thought that the
sweet little country where I come from (Holland) would be the first
muslim state in Europe but it seems the UK has the better cards (or
even more spineless politicians). It is shocking to see the once Great
Britain slowly descending into the United Islamic Caliphate. Poor
Brits, poor Europe...
Albert
on September 16, 2008
at 01:31 PM
Report this commentTo all posters here, please check out the following
website which is to be the vanguard of the Revolution that needs to be
started in this country against the absolute destruction we are living
through:
www.ukcolumn.org
John Morton
on September 16, 2008
at 01:31 PM
Report this commentGod help us. This is Britain, we have BRITISH law.
Those wanting Sharia law pack your bags and go and live elsewhere.
This criminal, mindless, moronic government and the deranged PC
brigade are hell bent on destroying us.
Kate
on September 16, 2008
at 12:01 PM
Report this commentCan you people not read?
The rulings are enforced under arbitration legislation, for which both
parties must accept terms and to bind to the ruling - i.e. if you
don't want to be bound by such an agreement do not accept a persons
request (just as you can decline other forms of arbitration - this is
actually saving some of my taxes).
There is NO WAY the government would give up sovereignty - look at the
mess in Europe where we technically have handed over our rights (thank
you conservative party) but still somehow haven't.
The current culture of fear, made evident by these numerous comments
reflecting what persons wish to believe is going to/is happening,
rather than what is actually stated is far more worrying. The end is
not nigh, just chill.
Also what does matter if muslim countries would not afford British the
same rights to belief as we afford muslims - that is what makes this
country great, and to advocate the opposite is to become an object of
the same criticism.
Gray
on September 16, 2008
at 11:50 AM
Report this commentSharia courts operating in Britain: Council bans
snacks and soft drinks at meetings during Ramadan. Here begins
islamasisation of Britain. Year 2050: Welcome to Islamic republic of
Britain. What the hell is happening to the people of Britain? We are
slowly but surely yielding to Islamic domination without a whinge and
a whisper. Is it all because of oil?
Sridhar Rao
on September 16, 2008
at 11:25 AM
Report this commentwhat about Mickey ? can he attend a sharia court
action !
marc
on September 16, 2008
at 11:24 AM
Report this commentWe have no rights what so ever when we go to muslim
countries.
There is no political will in the UK to deal with the Muslims. The
Nulab is too afraid to do anything because some of their MPs are
muslim who provide crucial seats mainly due to high number of muslims
voters in a community in which the muslims are a dominant community.
What next? Will it become mandatory to attend a sharia court if our
courts under the, British Legal System, are too busy to handle cases?
This is typical Nulab governing the country by the back door and
keeping us in the dark.
Pradeep
on September 16, 2008
at 11:20 AM
Report this commentWe are now paying the price for short sighted
politicians and business leaders. Business wanted cheap labour to keep
wages low and politicions wanted to bring people in to offset the
aging population. Result millions of people from around the world
trying to get in to take advantage of the most stupid, free welfare
systems on the planet. Along with all these asylum seekers came the
muslims looking for a save haven. The Brits true to their political
correct leaders beliefs welcomed them with open arms and a council
house. If the people in the northern towns complained they were
accused of being racist and the local council built another mosque to
show how multicutltural we all were. It's no surprise to many of us to
find we now have sharia law in this country. Maybe the introduction of
this backward law of the desert will be the wake up call we have all
been waiting for. We Brits should now say loud and clear to our
political masters, enough is enough.
Ray
on September 16, 2008
at 11:20 AM
Report this commentI sincerely hope that a change of government will
reverse this madness. Labour really are the pits.
Peter
on September 16, 2008
at 11:19 AM
Report this commentYou silly spineless Brits! I can't believe W.
Churchill was the leader of your country not long again. If you don't
like it, then DO SOMETHING about it! Picket, protest, block the
driveways, and sidewalks of your leaders, etc. - do SOMETHING.
From A. Distance
on September 16, 2008
at 11:19 AM
Report this commentTo Mike who ponders on will he vote BNP just to
save the British way of life and jeff Australia.
Mike you must either that or this country will be run by people who
hate you and all of us.
Jeff does not know what is going on in his own country as there more
young people come here to get away from this movement over there.
Good job the British National Party will welcome the descendants of
our people returning home.
At leats they would be welcomed in a free country and never be
slaves.
Glad for the support Linda.
I find more people each day as I go around the streets of towns in
Sussex when people have awaoken to the facts and now know Cameron and
his band will never change the course that has been laid since heath
lied to us whilst taking the gold offered to him.
David Albion
on September 16, 2008
at 11:18 AM
Report this commentWould we be allowed to have a Christian Court - NO
- so why does the muslim section of socierty think they have the right
to have one. In the case of wife beating no matter that the man of any
religion has councelling they should be taken to court and punished.
Or maybe it is one law for the man and another for women, we have all
read of the horrifc beatings that women have to endure in some muslim
countries.
christina
on September 16, 2008
at 11:18 AM
Report this comment"I am disgusted at some of the comments I've read
in response to this article mainly because people have no idea what
shari'a law is and about the legal system is like, firstly there are
already multiple systems in place for
arbitration courts in this country including jewish talmudic courts
dealing with the same issues. The addition of Shari'a courts will make
no difference and will not be able to carry out "huduud" punishments
like beheading,
amputation of hands, stoning to death etc. because of british law and
because in fact they are theoretical maximums that can only be applied
in a perfect an just society. this is a message to the ignorant
masses..... educate your self! learn about these things! and don't
look at places like saudi arabia and iran as examples of
how shari'a law really is those examples are twisted versions from the
minds of extremist clerics and should not be considered accurate."
And we're disgusted with Islam matey, and Muslim attitudes like that.
Firstly what the Jews do is irrelevant (you
do obsess about them don't you?), secondly for its Middle Ages
misogyny, but mostly because its a religious code
from 1400 AD that has no place opearing privately in Britain.
And you think "theoretical maximums" means the
overall system is acceptable because British law will prevent them,
because the UK is not a "perfect" society??! "Message to the ignorant
masses"?? - listen mate, with those attitudes you have no right to
live here and should consider leaving. YOU educate yourself and stop
talking proselytising rubbish about a religion others don't like or
accept or want here.
"You foolish people!! jumping to anger without knowing what you are
talking about!! There are many advantages to the Sharia Court
system... If you only took the time to learn about things you do not
understand, you might find it is a better and much older system than
what you call "british law"... I hope it does expand and replace the
current system which is slow and poorly ran.."
Excuse me? We don't WANT Sharia. We don't ACCEPT a 1400 AD religious
legal system from your wretched religon. That does not make us
"foolish", we have better ways of spending our time than studying
backward ignorance we DO NOT WANT HERE, and the responsibility to get
an education - and also some multicultural integration and better
manners - is entirely yours matey. Your attitude just reinforces the
abhorrence people fell about Sharia and Islam in Britain. Sneering and
ranting against criticism and feeling you are superior and have a
right to do so just isn't acceptable matey. Its not how we do things
here: this is not India or the Middle East.
Joe
on September 16, 2008
at 11:18 AM
Report this commentIf this is true, it's appalling. Our judicial
system is governed by our ancient constitution: it cannot absorb
sharia or any form of religious law.
The truth is that these weasling Labour politicians are the same breed
who quietly stood by while the Satanic Verses was burned in British
streets - they're frightened of losing Muslim votes.
Read Ed Hussein's The Islamist and you'll see that Hizb ut-Tuhrir is
prepared to play a very long game, but the aim is slowly to penetrate
the insitutitons of State in countries around the world. Britain is
truly leading the way - well done Gordon Brown et al. Let's all beat
our wives and in celebration (why not several wives while we're it?).
Matthew Hall
on September 16, 2008
at 11:16 AM
Report this commentlol
It's not law, it's arbitration. It always has been perfectly legal for
anyone, Muslim,Jew, Betty & Fred from No 8, to enter into these sorts
of arbitration settlements. You can do this in any civilised country!
It's voluntary and not legally binding.
reading these comments, you can see how the Nazis got elected though.
Marcus
on September 16, 2008
at 11:16 AM
Report this commentThis kind of news always puts me in a spot, because
while on the one hand I completely oppose this ridiculous measure, I
wish to entirely disavow myself from the melodramatic right wing
idiots this has (inevitably) provoked.
This does not indicate all Britain being subjugated under Sharia law,
as anyone who took the five minutes to actually read the article
knows.
The problem is not some takeover, but that we are sleepwalking towards
a segregated society, where Britain's second largest religion
withdraws into itself, instead of blending into the rich and diverse
fabric of British society as other cultures have (mostly) done.
To all the shrill Americans sticking their noses in: keep your
ignorance to yourself. We do not want overbearing religion, be it
Islam or American style Christianity.
Andi
on September 16, 2008
at 11:15 AM
Report this commentWhat happened to the referendum on immigration
promised by two Labour leaders, is this kind Islamic Law what Britons
want? How can we possibly justify running two legal systems? Having
recently returned from South Africa I have seen when happens when
vigilante xenophobia replaces a lack of government leadership. Beware.
Steve Wilkins
on September 16, 2008
at 11:13 AM
Report this commentWake up UK. We here in the USA are watching. Set an
example for us that we will follow. Those that implement this sharia
have a plan, and that is for a One World Caliphate. Do what MUST be
done, Sir Richard, before it is too late.
WE can do this together.Let's GROW A SET!
Get the mentality back and just DO IT!
Anglo
on September 16, 2008
at 10:00 AM
Report this commentEverybody reading this article should write to
David Cameron and shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve to demand that
these courts be closed down as soon as the Tories take power. Writing
Labour will be a waste of time. We need to fight (peacefully), not
whine or emigrate. Britain is a great country and we need to stand up
for it.
IED
on September 16, 2008
at 10:00 AM
Report this commentI am an American, but my heart goes out to all of
you in your country. This must be a really sad day for true patriotic
Britains. All I can say is that liberalism is a disease and it must be
stopped.
Marko
on September 16, 2008
at 09:56 AM
Report this commentThis is what you get with the Labour Party. This is
what you get when you disarm you populace. I pity all of you good
people. Give power back to the monarchy. Put William or Harry on the
Throne. They seem to be strong MEN.
Kurt Anderson-Utah, USA
on September 16, 2008
at 09:56 AM
Report this commentLol @ the west. Who knew that feminism would allow
Sharia law. Women have had too many special privilages.... And it is
time to turn the tables. I guess I will have to stop drinking (which
is a small price to pay)!
Kevin B
on September 16, 2008
at 09:56 AM
Report this commenti might vote be BNP just to save British interests
in future...what other choice do i have??
mike
on September 16, 2008
at 09:55 AM
Report this commentThis is a sad day for England. It has past the
event horizon, and will soon be in bondage.
The liberals have pushed tolerance to the extreme by allowing this to
happen.
Barry
on September 16, 2008
at 09:55 AM
Report this commentSo Britian's chickens are finally coming home to
roost. It would have been less surprising and more fulfilling if this
would have happened in France.
abe
on September 16, 2008
at 09:53 AM
Report this commentWhat the hell is wrong with your government?
It's funny the V for Vendetta is on TV as I type this. You Brits
should overthrow your government.
Joe
on September 16, 2008
at 09:53 AM
Report this commentIt seems to me to be another version of marriage
counselling. Journalists have such a way of reporting the news these
days, ask a leading question and only quoting a partial response. On
the other hand if this form of counselling is unfair and unjust, then
it should be stopped or closely regulated... i just have the feeling
once again that the full story is not being told for the sake of
sensationalism.
Gary
on September 16, 2008
at 09:53 AM
Report this commentCombine an established church and the British sense
of fairness and what do you get? The establishment of every religion
on Earth. Because it seems so Victorian to allow the Church of England
special privileges of its own, special privileges must be doled out to
all. The only solution is to disestablish the Church and finally get
the state out of the religion business and religion out of the
business of the state.
Edgar
on September 16, 2008
at 09:52 AM
Report this commentMay the sovereign God have mercy on us all and come
back real soon.
GOD BLESS THE QUEEN!!!!!
carol MacKinnon
on September 16, 2008
at 09:52 AM
Report this commentI am so happy my father caught the orphan express
to
Canada. I would be a British person living under Sharia law and
needing the help of the U.S. everytime I turned around.
He also had the wisdom to move to the U.S. when he reached maturation
at 18 years. I never realized how brilliant he was.
Albert Bullock
on September 16, 2008
at 09:52 AM
Report this commentIt just keeps getting worse-the inmates are running
the asylum.
I am so sorry England, my people came here on the Mayflower Signed the
Mayflower compact and the Declaration of Independence.I have always
felt you were my beginning-now you end. The Brits better wake up and
so too America!! There's no where left to go, where you gonna hide,
there's no one left like you- Scarry very scarry Arlene
A Elliott
on September 16, 2008
at 09:52 AM
Report this commentI'm reading a lot of smug self-satisfaction from my
fellow Americans on the topic of sharia law in Great Britian. Look out
my infidel brothers and sisters we're next.
Sean Dial
on September 16, 2008
at 09:51 AM
Report this commentTo David Albion, 1.05pm.
I agree 100%. We can only hope that more & more people see the light
before it really is too late.
To David Walker, 10.27am.
No---Nick will not be delighted!
This takeover by Islam has long been predicted. The BNP exist to
protect & preserve our British traditions & this is an overt move by
Islam (backed by the liblabcon monster)to do exactly what the BNP have
warned about.
Don't shoot the messenger!
Linda
Linda
on September 16, 2008
at 09:51 AM
Report this comment"All we are doing is regulating community affairs
in these cases," said Mr Siddiqi, chairman of the governing council of
the tribunal. Are not the purpose of all laws to regulate community
affairs? How can a country have two different legal systems and yet
treat everyone equal and how do the immigrants assimilate to the new
country? Here in the U.S. we decided long ago separate but equal was
wrong. How much longer before the Muslims clamor for more Sharia law?
Bob
on September 16, 2008
at 09:51 AM
Report this commentAfter reading tons of comments on this atrocity, I
say RISE UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR LAND! Don't allow the cowardice of your
politicians or the hand-wringing apathy of our citizens to become the
post-mortem of a once-great nation. Return to the God of your fathers
and serve Him only. Then you can remove the idolatry from your land
and live as free men. RISE UP, BRITS!
donna
on September 16, 2008
at 09:50 AM
Report this commentARE WE IN THE ''TWILIGHT
ZONE''!!!??..UNBELIEVABLE!.This cant go on....I hope I wake up to see
this article was a BAD DREAM!
niel
on September 16, 2008
at 09:50 AM
Report this commentShame on Britain.
Tom
on September 16, 2008
at 09:50 AM
Report this commentust how stupid can this cretinous government that
clings to office be? Well now we know, not only have they introduced a
rival system of justice into the country, they slipped their new
unwanted legislation in on the quiet in the hopes nobody would notice.
But now we know and with luck this dithering so called cabinet
together with their expense limpet followers will be bundled out of
office at the next election for a good two decades.
Simon Marshland
on September 16, 2008
at 09:49 AM
Report this commentWhat a bunch of cowards. Where are my real English
cousins? You've turned into a bunch of English muffins. Rise above
this or you will never be able to recover....
Don't capitulate!!!
JC
on September 16, 2008
at 09:35 AM
Report this commentGOD SAVE THE QUEEN AND THE UK!!!!
Awake over there!!! and save the anglo-saxon culture and tradition!!
nyc
igor nyc
on September 16, 2008
at 09:35 AM
Report this commentGive it some time and we (USA) will be the same
way. I say in about ten years.
David
on September 16, 2008
at 09:35 AM
Report this commentIf Obama becomes prez of the late great USA. the
same will be here.
butch
on September 16, 2008
at 09:34 AM
Report this commentPlease say it isn't so! A Balkanized justice system
in the second-to-last-hope for the free world?
Don R.
on September 16, 2008
at 09:34 AM
Report this commentSure...set up courts for each religion: Pagans,
Druids, Pope's court, Elfs, Leprechans.
Anarchy is alive and well in England and who is winning?
Eddie Sehota
on September 16, 2008
at 09:34 AM
Report this commentI welcome the Shariah counrt system as a system of
arbitration. This is nothing new.
The Jews use a similar system called the Beth Din.
Bilal Patel
on September 16, 2008
at 09:33 AM
Report this commentI had such respect for Great Britain, but no more.
Such great heritage - Churchill,Thatcher, and etc...You were a country
of pride and greatness. But now you have fallen apart and become weak
and mindless. Such a shame. The British people deserve so much more
from their government. By buckling under, to the Muslim pressure for a
insane set of laws they have - you are on a crash course into
darkness. How sad for Britian. How sad for the world. Good-bye
Britian....
Paul
on September 16, 2008
at 09:33 AM
Report this commentEuropeans,
Your ancestors once carried your religion and civilization around the
world. But, you are now tired and embarrassed of that religion and
civilization. You do not believe in anything -- certainly not
yourselves.
You live only for your own comfort and security. With the demographic
collapse now underway, your descendants will be condemned to live as
dhimmi under the oppressive yoke of Islam. Your great cathedrals, if
they are not mosques, will be nothing more than monuments to a long
gone civilization.
Your civilization was great while it lasted!
Todd
on September 16, 2008
at 09:32 AM
Report this commentWake up, Britain! Remember your heroes of old!
"...we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall
fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall
fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender"
Anne Guida
on September 16, 2008
at 09:32 AM
Report this commentYou are British. Where is your outrage? Your pride?
One law....BRITISH LAW for all in your country.
I am so sorry for you all if you not to recognize what is happening.
We Americans have the same problem...and will be looking to you as an
example.
Caro
on September 16, 2008
at 09:31 AM
Report this commentAmazing how right the Sex Pistols were...
Nooooooooooooo Future! For You!
Rex Hump
on September 16, 2008
at 09:31 AM
Report this commentYou poor snobbish British. You are losing your
country right in your back yard. Ha ha ha. You worry so much for poor
Georgia that you forgot about your poor old Britain. Ha ha ha.
Charles
on September 16, 2008
at 09:31 AM
Report this commentBrits: The time to take up arms and repel the enemy
is at hand. To ignore the issue will mean the death of England.
Kevin
on September 16, 2008
at 09:31 AM
Report this commentWhere in the hell is old John Bull? Where is the
Britain that I knew? Gone forever, done in by the gutless geldings in
the government?
This is what Liberalism and political coorectnes will bring you. Death
of your nation, your culture, your language, and your freedom.
All I can say is: In the United States, this is PRECISELY why we have
the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution!
Scott
on September 16, 2008
at 09:31 AM
Report this commentYou silly, small minded, racial, religously
intollerant biggots! Maybe you should do some reading about Sharia
law. Sharia law doesn't deport starving citizens who steal a loaf of
bread to feed their families half way around the world to colonies as
slave labour! Nor does Sharia law provide a cheating wife with 80% of
her husbands wealth and custody of their children! The British way of
life has been corrupt for centuries - favouring the rich, land owners,
title holders etc.. whilst demeaning and degrading the masses. It is
time to try a better way. Grow up and take a good look around.
Jeff Australia
on September 16, 2008
at 09:29 AM
Report this commentHmmm...
No-one seems to be commenting on the real reasons behing all this:
Religion.
Until we get rid once and for all all kind of religious crackpots,
nothing will change.
Religion poisons everything.
Required reading:
The God Delusion,
God is NOT Great,
Letter to a Christian Nation.
I am NOT having a go at Christianity per se, but at ALL the religious
perversions out there.
Yes, I am an aetheist. It seems to be the only moral and ethical
choice left open.
Neil
on September 16, 2008
at 09:20 AM
Report this commentI read the news today oh boy, about an unlucky land
that made the grade. And though the news was rather sad, I just had to
laugh having read the news.
Arthur Stephens
on September 16, 2008
at 09:19 AM
Report this comment"both parties in the dispute agree to give it the
power to rule on their case". These courts are supposed to be
voluntary. However, I wonder if there are any women on these
tribunals, the cases given as an example seem to have shown that the
women got the worse of the argument.
Chris Norman
on September 16, 2008
at 09:19 AM
Report this commentLets not get too excited about this. the Jews have
been quietly running their own courts for dealing with family disputes
for a couple of hundred years, and the fabric of society has not been
affected. I'd like to see a stronger affirmation of the Primacy of
Parliamentary law over Sharia Law, especially on the observance of
Human Rights, giving the Courts the right to take control of cases
where the findings of the Sharia Court are against Parliamentary Law.
Additionally, a record of proceedings should be sent to the Attorney-
Generals office in all cases tried by Sharia Law, in case any parties
wish to challenge proceedings, and also, as the number of cases
increase, to ensure that Sharia proceedings are in accordance with
Parliamentary law.
I'm willing to bet that if a case tried under Sharia law went to
Europe on a Human Rights issue, and the plaintiff won, then the UK
would be considered culpable by the EU court!
grumpy old man
on September 16, 2008
at 09:18 AM
Report this commentFrom Expat 44
I cannot believe what I am reading.
What the hell happened to England?
Whose country is it?
Whose law is it?
Does Parliament and the Judiciary men anything?
People often ask me why I emigrated. Now you know.
It will all end in tears - or blood.
Expat 44
on September 16, 2008
at 09:18 AM
Report this commentIf opposing this horrible attack on the British way
of life and legal system means that one is a racist, then I am proud
to be a racist. We don't want Sharia law, and we don't want its
supporters.
And what about this? Mickey Mouse is a corrupting influence and must
die, a Muslim cleric has declared. Can there be anything more Mickey
Mouse than Sharia law?
Mel
on September 16, 2008
at 09:18 AM
Report this commentThis is the result of a collective guilt complex
and national self-loathing. How very sad.
Ong
on September 16, 2008
at 09:16 AM
Report this commentWhere are the LEGAL profession? Hellooooo!!!.WHERE
ARE YOU?????
jane thompson
on September 16, 2008
at 09:04 AM
Report this commentNJ LOW Rider.
Why did you leave then. You should have stayed and fought for your
country!
TG
on September 16, 2008
at 09:04 AM
Report this commentWe are now a country within a country,more middle
east than middle england and nobody has the guts to stand up and be
counted and the millions of British men and women who gave their lives
in two world wars for the freedom we enjoy cry out from the grave in
anguish.
Barry Harvey
on September 16, 2008
at 09:04 AM
Report this commentThis is why I hate the labour party with such
poison that I get angry just thinking about them. No country can
successfully implement 2 different legal systems - which takes
priority, who polices it - are my taxes going to police sharia law?
And now it's granted, it cannot be taken away without massive uprising
and widespread civil unrest. Absolute bloody idiocy!
Chris
on September 16, 2008
at 09:02 AM
Report this commentImmigration without Assimilation is a Formula for
Disaster.
VICB3
on September 16, 2008
at 07:06 AM
Report this commentEnglishmen where are you? England needs you!
Winston Churchill is turning in his grave. General Montgomery is
banging his fist in Heaven. Englishmen where are you? What have you
done to my counrty!
NJ Low Rider
USA
NJ Low Rider
on September 16, 2008
at 07:06 AM
Report this commentI'm sooooo glad we have not and will never give up
our right to bear arms here. This my change when Obama hands over this
country to the UN and we have to fight the EU and the New World Order.
This is the religion of the furure. It will give complete control over
the world populous.
frank
on September 16, 2008
at 07:06 AM
Report this commentThis is the first time I've retched after reading
the news. For millions of people in Britain, wife-beating has been de
facto legalized, as it is allowed under Sharia law (Koran verse 4:34).
What's next? Death for rejecting Islam? Death for being homosexual?
All the social advances made in the last 500 years are now being
thrown away in the most sickening manner. What has happened to
Britain? This really is the beginning of the end.
DMC
on September 16, 2008
at 07:05 AM
Report this commentI am at a loss for words to discribe how I feel.
The only thing we have left is our vote, get these people out of
office ASAP. The country would be up in arms if the BNP were ever
voted in and here they are given all the fodder they need.
Annie
on September 16, 2008
at 07:05 AM
Report this commentSharia law is a violation of British justice. It
cannot possibly stand judicial scrutiny.
I should be outraged but the same thing nearly happened here in Canada
when a female judge (twit!) made a ruling regarding sharia law and
Ontario family court. Fortunately, it was over-turned at a higher
level!
Richard Ramsey
on September 16, 2008
at 07:05 AM
Report this commentPoor pathetic Brits. You spend centuries imposing
your Colonial will on millions in foreign countries, depriving people
of their culture, raping and pillaging; and now you are "disgusted" by
the consequences. Get real, you uneducated bunch,find some unbiased
history books to read and get some perspective into your narrow
minds.
John J
on September 16, 2008
at 07:05 AM
Report this commentBritain is toast!
Kate Stonehedge
on September 16, 2008
at 07:04 AM
Report this commentI can't believe these comments, are we all really
so stupid? Reality is that anyone can enter into these kind of
arbitration contracts, Muslims included. It's NOT law. It's voluntary,
anyone can do it, it isn't legally binding. It's like using an
ombudsman or talking to a marriage counselor.
Get a grip, people!!
Cuthbert
on September 16, 2008
at 07:04 AM
Report this commentDoes this have anything to do with Brussels/Euro
edicts/diktats/decrees? If so, there's probably nothing the Torys can,
or would, do about it. �No folly is more costly than the folly of
intolerant idealism.� - Winston Churchill. He sure got that right.
Robert Henry
on September 16, 2008
at 07:04 AM
Report this commentThank the Good Lord my mother and her family
emigrated from the UK to the USA in 1922. There is an old saying that
the British have a notoriously bad habit of underestimating their
enemies...certainly seems the case here and they don't even realize
who their enemies are!! Abe Lincoln said a house divided against
itself cannot stand, it seems the UK is doomed to destruction. Ironic
that the nation that so decidedly defeated the Nazi menace now rolls
over and becomes the jailhouse punk of Islam..sad indeed.
Stephen Williams
on September 16, 2008
at 07:04 AM
Report this commentOnly
can save you
ed
on September 16, 2008
at 07:02 AM
Report this commentTotal insanity. British law is the law of the land.
All immigrants should abide by this law. These courts decisions are
neither legal nor binding and should be outlawed. Arbitration is a
heck of a lot different that taking over. Sad day for not only
Britain, but Canada, America etc whose liberal politicians let these
people take over.
paul
on September 16, 2008
at 06:25 AM
Report this commentWhat as this country coming too. We should be like
New Zealand, you either abide by or law or _ _ ck off.
BOB
on September 16, 2008
at 06:25 AM
Report this commentI was once proud to be british, I served in the
Parachute Regiment for 22yrs, fought for this countrys well being.mmm
was it all worth it, just to hand britain over to every tom dick and
harry from what ever country they come from. What was wrong with Enoch
Powell.
Dave Livingstone
on September 16, 2008
at 06:25 AM
Report this commentIn reading this article, and all subsequent posts,
I see being brought to light many of the fears that we as westerners
have had looming in the back of our minds regarding the massive influx
of Muslims to our countries. I do not see how any country divided will
survive. English culture has long been respected as humane, just, and
strong, yet you are allowing politicians to crash your culture. Why?
If you are unable to resolve this issue there, feel free to come over
here and join us. I fear that we may not be as far behind you as we
like to believe, but at least with more voices we might be heard.
Besides we here in the USA love immigrants that already speak English.
Amanda Collins (USA)
on September 16, 2008
at 06:24 AM
Report this commentFurthering my previous comment:
Has the House of Commons lost its copy of the Magna Carta? If so, I'll
be happy to send them mine.
Monroe/USA
on September 15, 2008
at 11:30 PM
Report this commentWho among you voted for this?
How's that whole multi-culti thing working out for you?
Are you enjoying diversity?
You are getting what you deserve.
Harry Bergeron
on September 15, 2008
at 11:30 PM
Report this commentI've always been proud of my British heritage. What
has happened to your national pride and love of country. I'm heart
broken. You've surrendered your (my)culture and its history to the
Muslim culture without even a wimper.
Danny Reynolds
on September 15, 2008
at 11:29 PM
Report this commentWill the good people of England die under the boot
of a tyranical religion or will the England as I used to know it,
stand up and fight as free men.
Melvin
on September 15, 2008
at 10:56 PM
Report this commentThese British officials should be flogged in a
public square for passing this whimsy sharia scam.
They received these muslims into Great Britain, which is no longer
great. Feed, clothe, shelter and look after their welfare and what do
the English get in return. No gratitude and daily protests and
demands. A very bad investment.
Samsudin
on September 15, 2008
at 10:56 PM
Report this commentInsanity.
John
on September 15, 2008
at 10:56 PM
Report this commentThis is being presented as a "mediation" type
court, but what is the pressure for mediation? Are the rulings in
compliance with British law as well as Muslim? It's one thing to go to
the mosque on issues and settle them amongst yourselves, but quite
another another thing to have legally binding decisions passed. The
law of the country should prevail. Praying that our U.S. law (such as
it is with revisionist judges) does not sink to this.
Eve
on September 15, 2008
at 10:56 PM
Report this commentSo let me get this straight.
The Muslims have successfully set up a caliphate in Britain. They have
succeeded by getting the weak kneed Govt to recognize Sharia Law. They
tell the Brits we will handle marital law and that everything is
binding. Well does not Honor Killings fall under marital law? Who will
handle this? If the Muslims do Britain will have a major problem on
their hands. Sanctioned Murder!
br8kawy
on September 15, 2008
at 10:55 PM
Report this commentWhere is Margaret Thatcher when you need her?
Sue
on September 15, 2008
at 10:55 PM
Report this commentSo Sorry for you guys. Just a bunch of cowards
running your country.
Brett Selton
on September 15, 2008
at 10:55 PM
Report this commentHow about demanding Christian Ecclesiastical and
Jewish Rabbinical Courts next?
John
on September 15, 2008
at 10:55 PM
Report this commentIs there no interest in seperation of church and
state in great britian??? aren't there any freedom loving british left
to say something???
Nick
on September 15, 2008
at 10:54 PM
Report this commentCongratulations!
Your feel-good multiculturalism is more important than your sense of
national identity and now you have lost your country.
Does that feel good?
Dr. Morbius
on September 15, 2008
at 10:54 PM
Report this commentOur British cousins are always welcome in Oklahoma!
A place where the people make the laws, run the governement, and are
held accountable to the electorate.
I am afraid it is too late to save your belle isle from becoming an
administrative area of a socialist, godless, political correct
Europe.
John in Tulsa, Oklahoma
on September 15, 2008
at 10:54 PM
Report this commentSo does this court have the authority to order a
woman stoned for adultery? A fifth century court system? Very
progressive Britain, very progressive. Next, hands cut off for
stealing, and divorces by saying three times I divorce thee? Hahahaha,
what a joke your justice system is, how pathetic.
John Dothan
on September 15, 2008
at 10:53 PM
Report this commentWhere do I send the floral memorial tributes for
the death of Britain? I won't attend as my Catholic signs of reverence
and respect no doubt would not be tolerated in the Islamic Republic of
Britain. You were a great nation once. I lament your demise.
Richard
on September 15, 2008
at 10:53 PM
Report this commentI used to love Briton; now I grieve over her death.
Monroe/USA
on September 15, 2008
at 10:53 PM
Report this commentYou can't get anymore stupid than being a Liberal.
It's impossible.
Liberals are by far the lowest form of life in any society!
Rick Morrow
on September 15, 2008
at 08:18 PM
Report this commentWhat will happen when other religious groups demand
the same right? Will Catholics be allowed to establish courts? Other
Christians? Jews? What about non-religious groups? Should they also
have their own courts? This is a very slippery slope, and one that
will lead to only one destination.....the death of Britain.
Sabrina
on September 15, 2008
at 08:18 PM
Report this commentI am praying for Britain, Unless there is a genuine
revival in the church there all is lost. God help you now.
But America is not far behind you, The Church in America is away from
God. God help us all.
Arthur Mann
on September 15, 2008
at 08:11 PM
Report this commentYou foolish people!! jumping to anger without
knowing what you are talking about!! There are many advantages to the
Sharia Court system... If you only took the time to learn about things
you do not understand, you might find it is a better and much older
system than what you call "british law"... I hope it does expand and
replace the current system which is slow and poorly ran...
Omar Siddig
on September 15, 2008
at 08:11 PM
Report this commentThis kind of thing is why I continue to maintain
that liberal leftism is nothing less than a smelly, rotten gangrene in
society. Britain is being sacrificed on the altar of political
correctness. And what is ironic about this is that liberals often
support policies that would be violently suppressed under sharia law,
yet they still embrace (or are at least passive to the adoption of it)
sharia law because of political correctness. Go figure. Liberals were
never known for the common sense and rationality. The sane people of
Britain need to rise up now and take care of this problem while they
still have some semblance of their national identity intact.
mroberts
on September 15, 2008
at 08:11 PM
Report this commentThe only good that can come of this, is every other
western cultured country to get a good view of what happens when a
country is handed over to the muslim fanatics, maybe this will keep
America from making the same stupid mistakes, if it does not i do know
that the americans here will not sit back and take it as the Britians
so far have..make what ever laws you want but in the end as long as
the citizens still have their guns, they still have their power. how
long with the britians tolerate this garbage from their officials, may
be time they stand up for their country before it is too late, you see
the muslims in the streets daily protesting... where are the white
britians at.......???
aaron
on September 15, 2008
at 08:10 PM
Report this commentHave the people voted on this? Has this been done
without resprentation?
This should be considered illegal. Britain you've got to protect
yourself! You're dying!!!
Ryan
on September 15, 2008
at 08:10 PM
Report this commentTwo words: Absolutely outrageous. And a few more:
British politicians are selling out the hundreds/thousands of years of
tradition for political correctness.
One word: obscene
Richard Brodbender
on September 15, 2008
at 08:09 PM
Report this commentOh certainly, what a good idea, but has Britain
gone completely dippy? A nation that has long been considered to
possess the most humane and highly developed legal system on earth and
in history must now submit to the cruelties and brutalities of Sharia?
Will English people gather round to witness and cheer the stonings and
amputations, or the penalty of execution by beheading for a "criminal"
who has decided to leave Islam? Cruelty is not a major factor in
British life, so then what is the earthly sense of permitting it to
become so simply because the immigrant population in Britain prefers
it that way?
Ali
on September 15, 2008
at 05:49 PM
Report this commentcultural diversity = national suicide
davenjan
on September 15, 2008
at 05:48 PM
Report this commentThis is a disgrace.
In the late '80s, when I worked for the Conservative Party, I remember
laughing when Muslim extremists demanded their own parliament. Now, 20
years later, I see that Labour are surrendering to these same
extremists.
The situation is untenable and is bound to resemble Bosnia in coming
years. I do believe civil war is in Britain's future.
William Myers
on September 15, 2008
at 05:47 PM
Report this commentIs the Cross in the centre of the British Flag also
offensive? Must be replaced with Crescent Moon of Islam...
They took advantage of the good natured overly tolerant English..So
sad for the Guardian of Europe...
Jacob Rozenberg
on September 15, 2008
at 05:46 PM
Report this commentWhat happens when a infidel get caught doing
something illegal in the Muslim district. Who's law will have
jurisdiction? Watch what happens next. The Brits will cave into the
Muslims
john fracker
on September 15, 2008
at 04:35 PM
Report this commentThe death warrant of English justice and common law
has been signed. Farewell, Britain. God help you and God help the
United States, for we seem to be not far behind you in bowing to this
lunacy.
Bob
on September 15, 2008
at 04:35 PM
Report this commentThis is an outrage and you must fight it now! Whats
next? London becomes Londonistan?
Norman
on September 15, 2008
at 04:30 PM
Report this commentIf this is really true, a main pillar of the
British way of life has been broken and there is no turning back now,
it will be a matter of time when England is brought fully to its
knees. Even Churchill could not save you now.
mikey
on September 15, 2008
at 04:27 PM
Report this commentUnless you kick out your liberal politicians, and
escort the muslims to their nearest muslim country, YOUR country is
gone.
Islam is a lifestyle of warfare, not a religion.
Since Brits won't take action to protect their own country, and
Islam's goal is to rule the planet, can you blame the muslims for
taking it over? Give them an inch and they take it. It's the fault of
the British citizens for being cowards politically.
If the liberals in the US attempt to allow the muslims to take over
our country as much as they have in Britain, American gun owners (the
majority of us) WILL take our country back by force.
Jeff from Tucson, Arizona USA
on September 15, 2008
at 03:53 PM
Report this commentAs an American I don't know your laws, but I do
know you Brits never took anything lying down and I don't expect this
time to be an exception. This is an outrage that the wool was pulled
over your eyes like this, but if you are able to get the word out, I
think you can fix this. Best of luck to all of you. All sane Americans
are rooting for you.
RY
on September 15, 2008
at 03:32 PM
Report this commentIs it any coincidence that our Lib Left governments
around the world, have conceded the rights of it's citizens to
Political correctness?? Is it any coincidence that uncontrolled (in
the sense of screening applicants in the manner of education, criminal
records, illnesses) immigration has taken place ? or does it not
suggest that self serving politicians saw this as a means to further
their longevity in a good paying job and pension, by securing the
votes of third world emigres ? In my view,this all leads to the aspect
of a grim future for Christianity and Judaism. We will be taken over
by breeding more than we breed, if you look at large urban and
suburban areas like Toronto it is virtually a Lib Left stronghold, our
coming federal election will show you the strength of that immigrant
vote, and you can be sure that it will only get worse for us. The
building of Mosques in this once beautiful and peaceful country, is
the omen of our downfall. I think in the wake of the demise of people
like Thatcher and Enoch Powell from the political scene and the "Great
unwashed" not listening has led to this sad state of affairs. I too
spent time in the Middle east and I have no praise or kind thoughts of
it at all. God save the QUEEN and save our souls.
Bill Hine
on September 15, 2008
at 03:26 PM
Report this commentWhat the hell is wrong with you people? Can you not
see they are trying to take you over? Looks like they are succeeding.
Better get rid of the people in your government, and do it now. It
wouldn't hurt to kick out Rowan Williams while you're at it.
Joe USA
on September 15, 2008
at 03:25 PM
Report this commentThere seems to be an ever increasing number of you
people out there who are at last catching onto the shape of things to
come.
I am a member of the British national Party and unless you want this
system to become established just as the Danegeld was then you too
need to Join my Party and make it our Party.
You will have one chance to say this next year when you have the last
opportunity to say in or out of Europe.
When you vote next year vote for us as it is the ONLY referendum you
will have chance to take part in concrning Europe and situations like
this.
A vote for the labour/liberal/conservative alliance will give us all
more of the control of fear we are receiving today.
This sharia was allowed to operate here by margaret thatcher.If you
want to know why ask her.
David Albion
on September 15, 2008
at 01:05 PM
Report this commentThis is appalling and should be on the front page.
In England, everyone should be equal before English law, and no other.
Gavin
on September 15, 2008
at 01:05 PM
Report this commentI refer to myself as an English Christian [before
the usual DH's get started, I don't believe every word in the Bible
but as a guide find me a better one than the 10 commandments]. I would
like to know when the media start referring to me as a non muslim? In
the country I was born in 58 years ago I am now a non muslim? Not on
your life.
Terry
on September 15, 2008
at 11:39 AM
Report this commentAnd around all corners of the world We Shall Rule
Shak
on September 15, 2008
at 11:38 AM
Report this commentNo doubt Pakistani Muslims in the UK will now be
allowed to have more than one wife & increase the population
massively. More potential terrorists!
Vic
on September 15, 2008
at 11:34 AM
Report this commentCivil unrest (or war) comes closer by each day that
passes.
allen
on September 15, 2008
at 10:36 AM
Report this commentI am appalled that sharia law courts are being
allowed to operate in the UK. This must stop and a tougher stance be
taken against those who wish to destroy this country.
Stuart Rhodes
on September 15, 2008
at 10:33 AM
Report this commentSome memebers of this government, should be tried
for treason.
derek
on September 15, 2008
at 10:33 AM
Report this commentNever before has a country been destroyed from the
inside out as Britain is being now. We've got to emmigrate as far away
as possible from Britain and take the Great with us, for it is no
longer true!!
Jimmy Bracknell
on September 15, 2008
at 10:33 AM
Report this commentThis is appeasement. An absolute disgrace. And the
Government sneaked it in. The very people who should be upholding our
institutions and the concept of one, fair and impartial law for all
(Sharia is neither fair, nor impartial, nor for all), have slyly
betrayed that duty. What utter wretches they are.
sebastian
on September 15, 2008
at 10:32 AM
Report this commentMuslim countries do not allow and nor should they
allow other legal systems to exist - why should we?
This should be headline news.
sally
on September 15, 2008
at 10:32 AM
Report this commentCompletely agree with David's comment. Most
countries you visit require you to abide by their laws, and trying to
introduce your own would get short shrift, believe you me.
John
on September 15, 2008
at 10:32 AM
Report this commentTime everyone wore a burka .. especially when
driving and passing a forward facing camera.
Adrian
on September 15, 2008
at 10:32 AM
Report this commentAfter many decades as a legal alien, I finally
became a naturalized American citizen on (by happy coincidence) St.
Valentine's day this year. I felt no guilt, no loss, only a surprising
sense of relief.
The Britain I knew no longer exists. Sometimes I wonder if it ever
did--then I look at old photographs and letters and know it did, once
upon a lovely time.
What finally prompted me to become an American? September 11th. Had
that dreadful day never happened, I do believe this news alone would
have prompted me instead. I cannot understand why Britons do not
immediately demand the resignation of the government. Land of hope and
glory? Pah!
My first ever vote for President will go to John McCain.
FreeAtLast
on September 15, 2008
at 10:32 AM
Report this commentThe UK must do as we have in Ontario and outlaw all
religious tribunals when they interfere in Common Law. That means
Jewish, Christian or Islamic fundamentalists can no longer usurp how
hard fought for gender equality.
LWS
on September 15, 2008
at 10:31 AM
Report this commentNeither the Archbishop of Canterbury nor Lord
Phillips of Worth Matravers, the Lord Chief Justice has the power to
permit Sharia courts to judge criminal cases. The nod is being given
elsewhere, if your report is accurate. No problem with the Sharia
courts acting as arbitration tribunals, but no arbitration tribunal
deals with criminal matters. Watch out for gentlemen minus a hand or
foot in future!
Amin Aswet
on September 15, 2008
at 10:31 AM
Report this commentOne of the basic planks of law is equality of
rights for all individuals, male and female. Shiria law should not be
leagised in any way whatsover in the UK as it totally favours males
above females.
nigel Howse
on September 15, 2008
at 10:31 AM
Report this commentLet us organise a pilgrimage to Pakistan. We will
were the Cross on our foreheads attached to our bowler hats.We will
build a Church and deliver Bibles to people of Lahore.We will have
boozy Church Lunches and ask the choir to sing in Bikinis!!How will
the good people of Pakistan react to this.After Church we will all
apply for council homes and welfare. How will we be received?
james walker
on September 15, 2008
at 10:31 AM
Report this commentPathetic. Once again our snivelling, Politically
Correct government has given in - and this time to a religion who's
principal beliefs are founded in the middle ages.
This is primitive, barbaric and an insult to the huge majority of
people - muslim or other - that live in the UK.
This can only help the BNP.
Hugh
on September 15, 2008
at 10:31 AM
Report this commentSome advice for indiginous British people: Your
government has surrendered on your behalf and your country has now
been over-run.
Get out while you still can!
Julian Chapman
on September 15, 2008
at 10:31 AM
Report this commentAnother damned good reason not to vote Labour.
Words fail me!
Jonny
on September 15, 2008
at 10:31 AM
Report this commentIs it April 1st? This is a utter disgrace. We need
and demand an election tomorrow to get rid of this government who have
sold britain to the terrorists. We now are an official muslim state.
This cannot occur and must be rejected immediately by all british
voters. We have one law in the country, british law. Brown , Blair and
the rest of the labour party should be hung for treason for what they
have done to this country.
julie
on September 15, 2008
at 10:31 AM
Report this commentNice to see that violenence, terrorism and
intimidation do work in this arm pit of a country.
Hopefuly gordon brown and co wont get back in until all their PC
multicultural nonesense has been reveresed and outlawed
Andrew W
on September 15, 2008
at 10:30 AM
Report this commentFor god's sake Brown whatever next??!! The sooner
you and your awful government are toppled the better. This is
disgraceful and outrageous. Britain is not and should not ever become
a muslim state. Just take a look at the mess most muslim countries are
in.
Tony M
on September 15, 2008
at 10:29 AM
Report this commentNo,no,no. We are not multicultural. ALL who live
here come under British Law only.
Sharia law is illegal what ever this non government may say ans any
Judge sanctioning ~Sharia law over British law should beremoved
forthwith
Roger Welsh
on September 15, 2008
at 10:28 AM
Report this commentUtter insanity.
Nick Griffin will be delighted.
Is that the whole point, or New Labour really that stupid?
Truly, I can't tell any more.
David Walker
on September 15, 2008
at 10:27 AM
Report this commentThis Government has no lawful authority to allow
Sharia courts to exist in this country. There can only be one legal
system/law and equality for all in the country. Sharia laws do not
recognise fairness and equality for both men and women. No doubt there
would be a slow drib drib of stoning and hand chopping as is allow in
other Muslim countries. Britain has long fought against such barbarism
and the Government is effectively allowing it to happen soon.
George
on September 15, 2008
at 10:26 AM
Report this commentThe British state should not be endorsing an
abhorrent ideology. With the advent of the internet, we know who the
collaborators are. It's time to enforce monoculturalism and ban Islam.
Then there will be a reckoning.
IMarcher
on September 15, 2008
at 10:26 AM
Report this commentCompletely backward and cowardly step from a
wretched and dying Government drowning in it's own madness.
What do new labours feminists in Government like Harriet Harman see as
being the benefits of a womans testimony being half of that of a man
in a sharia court?
Appart from unelected, vocal activist males in the muslim population,
what objective evidence can the Government provide that there is an
overwhelming need and demand from British Muslims for this ?
Who will be appointing the Sharia judges and how are they replaced ?
What signal do the Government feel this will send to Islamist
extremists who are bent on everyone in Britain living under sharia
law?
The quivering cowardice of this Government is sickening. Britain for
crying out loud WAKE UP!!!!
New Labour Out
on September 15, 2008
at 10:26 AM
Report this commentIf the British Government think this system is such
a good idea, why didn't they announce it proudly, loudly?
I think it is time the British people seriously consider who their
leaders are and who they represent.
To me living far away and looking at it rather than living in it this
is a slow and deliberate dismantling of UK constitution and laws. Your
leaders are no better than Stalin, or Hitler who display the same
moral certainty that is always the basis of a tyranny.
You have become another radical social experiment no better that the
Stalinist or Nazis regimes that cost millions of lives.
What is it with you European citizens that you put up with this time
after time? I don't get it?
Can someone please explain.
stephen
on September 15, 2008
at 10:26 AM
Report this commentI am an English professional woman. I live only
here because I have to answer to no one for any aspect of my
existance. Or did. The council under whose aegis I live is currently
making their workers observe Ramadan etc, etc. And now this. I'm off
to America.
Tiggy
on September 15, 2008
at 10:25 AM
Report this commentho dear ho dear the finest country in the world We
are being let down by this government, whatever our etnic background
ken
on September 15, 2008
at 10:24 AM
Report this commentThis is effectively sanctioning a two-tier legal
system, with special remedies in law only available to specific ethnic/
religious groups, effectively placing them above our laws.
From a practical viewpoint alone, there is no possibility of adopting
some aspects of Islamic Sharia law. What a ludicrous and unworkable
notion. Where a conflict arose with British law, which law would be
given precedence?
in totidem verbis
on September 15, 2008
at 10:24 AM
Report this commentThis explains the AB Canterbury and LC Justice!
They were 'forewarned'! WHAT can be done to stop this handing over of
huge swathes of England to subversive foreigners?\
Surely there is somebody out there with the financial means to contest
this before the courts. Surely there is SOME means whereby the
majority can object. And WHY is the government still allowing Muslims
from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Somali to bring yet more unemployable
'relatives' into the Muslim colonies?
Yes. Nu Labour is guilty of TREASON.
KHS
on September 15, 2008
at 10:24 AM
Report this commentA very good idea, from Labour's point of view - it
guarantees about half a million votes from the Pakistani community,
and, boy, doesn't Labour need votes..
Bad news for the feminists, though. Sorry, dears, sounds like you lot
have been ditched. Labour has new friends now.
SeaDweller
on September 15, 2008
at 10:23 AM
Report this commentRowan must be stripped from his title,he is not a
true Christian. Mulsims are getting bolder by the minute and are
undermining the powers in this country due to the gutless fools in the
government.
No one dares to criticise muslims, they are doing what they like
without fear of the Law of the Land,Why?
They kill us and we blame ourselves.
They criticise the British way of life but wont return to their
ancestral homelands where sharia law is practised and we tolerate
their abusive attitudes.
If they want something and are not given,then they dry that
institution dry with lawsuits by immoral lawyers of their own.
Muslims can do what they like,they are a self governing body.
Moses
on September 15, 2008
at 10:23 AM
Report this comment"No such reprocity would be afforded". There's an
underlying compliment to one of the two countries.
M.R
on September 15, 2008
at 10:21 AM
Report this commentI left Britain to live in France in 2001.My
analysis of the news provides some amusement.The constant whingeing
about Local Council activity.The Labour government.Binge
drinking.Neighbour disputes etc.etc. This latest revelation concerning
Islamic Law is past a joke.People of Britain look at your homeland
from outside.See what is happening.Get a Government that respects the
BRITISH.Get rid of those that seek to take over the country before it
is too late
Colin WILLIAMS
on September 15, 2008
at 10:21 AM
Report this commentIf a muslim wants muslim law then they should live
in a muslim country!
This is the thin end of the wedge conceded by our current worthless
government!
It is no wonder that BNP/UKIP/etc. are being handed votes on a plate.
Rich Webb
on September 15, 2008
at 10:20 AM
Report this comment"The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as
much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia." and "...the women
withdrew their complaints [of domestic violence]" say it all. When, in
2005, Ontario was considering allowing sharia law to be an option
(which it did not enact), its fiercest opponents were Iranian women
immigrants who had not migrated 6,000 miles to find themselves living
under sharia again � a system in which, apart from its notorious
punishments, a non-Muslim may not testify against a Muslim and the
testimony of one man is worth that of two women. And what do the
multicultural industry, the much-vaunted Equality and Human Rights
Commission and the Minister for Women and Equality propose to do about
this? On past performance, presumably continue to betray the
vulnerable members of those communities by repeating parrot-fashion,
"It's their culture."
Clifford Owen
on September 15, 2008
at 10:20 AM
Report this commentLabour's values are to get votes. They need to
agree anything muslims want. Sharia is a toxic system. Anyone can set
up. A decision depends on a self appointed judge (immam supported). A
recent London decision was a stabbed victim agreed to be paid off by
the stabber.
Perhaps the victim was just also 'persuaded' to agree. Perhaps the
self appointed sharia judge/ court got a donation (said to be for
charity).
All regular under taliban. Next gun and knife will rule across the UK.
The richest mulsim mobsters just pay off the court. No problems.
Labour has lost all idea of how to govern. Or they just revealed
labour really is/ always was corrupt.
Brown's vision of Britain! He just flushed world famous British
justice down the loo!
faithful
on September 15, 2008
at 10:20 AM
Report this commentNo wonder this country is a shambles - this is
really the thin end of the wedge. What will they be doing tomorrow -
Is this sharia law going to do any good at all with the terrorosts who
ere allegedly plotting against this country- that should have been
tried as treason. Are they going to be judging white english people or
just the muslims - there are a lot of answers to be given - but how
could the british governemt do this to this country.
shirley
on September 15, 2008
at 10:19 AM
Report this commentIf my child is bullied at school, let's say
punched: if my first recourse is to the school's discipline code, and
I consent to the school dealing with it, then a 'tribunal' of a Head
Teacher has ruled on a criminal case. Is this so very different? Oh
yes, these people are Muslim so we can get all paranoid about it. How
many of your readers as victims or aggressors were dealt with at
school without their or their parents' consent when criminal acts had
been committed? This is a nothing story designed to alienate and
divide. The women, for instance, withdrew their complaint - of
concern, but that is always the case in domestic violence cases.
Trevor Marshall
on September 15, 2008
at 10:19 AM
Report this commentIs it largely that the "muslim vote" is calling the
shots ? What a gutless lot of MPs we have ! They are setting a
terrible precedent. hat next ? Prayer rooms in every school where
there is more than one muslim pupil ? Prayer rooms in every government
building.... the list is endless !
Martin Evans
on September 15, 2008
at 10:19 AM
Report this commentIt's not bad enough that half the laws enacted in
Great Britain are passed by a bunch of apparatchiks in Brussels but
now the government is caving in to pressure from a minority group to
govern themselves by their own laws.
If there are muslims in Britain who want to live by their own laws
then they should go to a country that uses them.
This is total madness and will serve no good purpose whatsoever.
Get rid of them and the looney left liberals who encourage them.
Geoff Turner
on September 15, 2008
at 10:17 AM
Report this commentSharia has been around for ages what's the problem?
Have you lost the plot? The Islamic legal system being more fully
recognised legally in this way in Britain means a further step toward
the Islamic way of life here in the not too distant future. That's
good news for everyone. Be happy about it.
abda
on September 15, 2008
at 10:17 AM
Report this commentMy understanding is that the Police continue their
investigations in those cases where women withdraw their allegations
of domestic violence because it is recognised that women are often
subjected to coercian. It is most strange that the same British Police
Force should now respond differently for Muslim complainants. I voted
for a Labour government which believed in fairness for all. I was
wrong to vote for Labour. I am sorry that I no longer feel the same
pride in the country I was born and bred in. I feel sad that I now say
I absolutely hate it!
Ann
on September 15, 2008
at 10:16 AM
Report this commentI am appalled. This is madness. I am 75 years old
and never thought I would live to see the day when I would no longer
feel proud to be an English citizen. My once proud country has been
sold down the river by cynical self seeking politicians who care
nothing for us (witness the never ending ways to extract more stealth
taxes from us for them to waste)and given away to immigrants, both
legal and illegal. This latest PC ruling is an absolute insult to the
main body of people in our country.
Bernard Rollingson
on September 15, 2008
at 10:15 AM
Report this commentIt is against Sharia to speak against Sharia. All
hear now must immediately report to their nearest Sharia court for
Sharia punishments. Chop, chop !
If two of you show up at the same time, we can make it a double-
header !
And all women must be burqa ready. NO matter WHAT !
theoldman
on September 15, 2008
at 10:12 AM
Report this commentFemale Mohammedans are now officially second class
citizens without equal rights or redress to British courts -- most of
those women will not get a choice(which sane women opts for 'no
rights' anyway?) but will be forced to accept the sharia ruling.
They can be divorced without sharing of assets, rights to their kids
or alimony/pension rights now, turning them into slaves of their
husbands, putting Mohammedan men at a gross advantage since they do
not have the same liability or responsibility that all other men of
all other religions have.
And the British welfare will end up having to look after the wives
thus stripped of their property and rights by Sharia.
Evelyn
on September 15, 2008
at 10:12 AM
Report this commentWow! Am I glad I left...
Teliza
on September 15, 2008
at 10:12 AM
Report this commentIn Gods name what are these Labour MORONS thinking
about.This must be fought hard and this disgusting policy abolished as
unconsitutional.
Robert
on September 15, 2008
at 10:12 AM
Report this commentHow long before muslims demand disputes with non-
muslims be settled according to sharia law?
kufr
on September 15, 2008
at 10:12 AM
Report this commentThe operation of Sharia courts in Some cities in
Britain shows clearly tolerance and wisdom in a country known for its
cultural diversity.In my view, it's a step forward in the process of
the dialogue of religions and civilizations instead of clash of
civilizations .
Abdelhamid Bouziane
on September 15, 2008
at 10:11 AM
Report this commentMy Grandfathers and Fathers fought in wars to
protect this country and her citizens from invasion. The Government is
now handing our beautiful country to the Imams.
"And was jerusalem builded here......" Not then not now and not ever.
michael
on September 15, 2008
at 10:11 AM
Report this commentWhat did you expect?
This is part of the socialists' plan: 'celebrate' multiculturalism -
subsidise multiple marriage households and pay for dozens of children
to be born to newcomers (whilst the indigenous population is too
impoverished, over-worked and over-taxed to be able to do the same) -
build mosques and provide every kind of funding and subsidy going
through the anonymous-faced quangos - provide interpreters for
everything to make sure they get everything they are 'entitled' to
(whilst our own pensioners who fought for the country sit shivering
and hungry at home) - ban anything Christian that might upset other
faiths - etc. etc.
Yes, it's all part of the socialist plan to bury the Anglo-Christian
heritage / tradition, and any possibility of an 'upper-class' ever
holding power again. House of Lords? Only if it is stuffed full of
appointed socialists, eh?
All that was required was for good men to stay silent.....
Michael Lumley
on September 15, 2008
at 10:10 AM
Report this commentMadness. There can only be one set of laws which
apply equally to all. Anything else is a recipe for choas. Labour has
lost the plot completely.
Philip
on September 15, 2008
at 10:10 AM
Report this commentTHIS IS DISGRACEFUL.
I do not wish to live in a caliphate.
I am writing to my MP immediately to demand an explanation. I suggest
everyone else does too before this becomes the Trojan Horse that
brings a completely alternative Britain to these islands.
Unacceptable. Totally unacceptable.
Jon T
on September 15, 2008
at 10:09 AM
Report this commentThose responsible for such Extra-0rdinary treachery
should be punished.
doris
on September 15, 2008
at 10:09 AM
Report this commentAll new British legislation is only permitted if it
favours muslims. Look at the recent changes to planning laws.
Extensions will not need permission if they are to accomodate an
extended family, I wonder why that was implemented?
Terry
on September 15, 2008
at 10:08 AM
Report this commentThis makes me sick. Who do I have to vote for to
get rid of these people, who are selling my country down the drain,
intent on taking us back to the Dark Ages? No, it is no exaggeration.
When I think of our history - the lives of the people who fought wars,
the sacrifices. Get rid of Brown? Why stop there? Kick rid of them
all. Let's have someone with the balls to govern, and not appease all
the bloody time. What about my human rights? Sharia law! For God's
sake!!!
Robert
Robert Booth
on September 15, 2008
at 10:08 AM
Report this commentFrance will go first and then it will be time for
Britain. No wonder the U.S. has a difficult time getting assistance to
help stop Islamic world superiority.
Tom
on September 15, 2008
at 10:08 AM
Report this commentYe Gods! What has happened to my beloved England!
Throw out the liberals and get some law and order.
Gwendoline Niebergall
on September 15, 2008
at 10:07 AM
Report this commentThe demise of our country was prophesized by Enoch
Powell. He had massive popular support of the British people, but the
arrogant political establishment of the time banished him to the
political wilderness for his loyalty to his country. I wonder what he
would make of todays political cowards......
ENOCwasRIGHT
on September 15, 2008
at 10:07 AM
Report this commentSharia law believes in killing homosexuals and
lashing adulterers........doesn't that make members of this Government
and the 'pc' brigade feel a bit uncomfortable?
Rob
on September 15, 2008
at 10:07 AM
Report this commentIf this is fact, then can we ask that a British Law
Court be established in Muslim countries, to deal with British
transgressions????
I think NOT. When in Rome...........etc.
RogerF
on September 15, 2008
at 10:06 AM
Report this commentHow can this be legal?it has not been voted on in
the commons or house of lords.Who does Brown think he is?I live in the
USA now but next week I'm going to the embassy in DC to get the forms
to vote so my country will be worth comming home to.
John Hughes
on September 15, 2008
at 10:06 AM
Report this commentThis present Labour Government are the ones to
blame for giving away our country inch by inch. They are traitors to
the Queen and people of this country and they should be charged with
treason and brought before the courts.
Paul
on September 15, 2008
at 10:06 AM
Report this commentThis is a DISGRACE. On this premise, any foreign
legal or belief system can become an Arbitration Tribunal. How many
Muslim women will be pressured by their families and communities into
accepting an Islamic Arbitration Tribunal? The fact that there is a
"choice" of legal systems opens the system to abuse.
This is the most vile betrayal of any British government. WHY IS THIS
NOT FRONT PAGE NEWS!!!!!!!
Mike Gow
on September 15, 2008
at 10:06 AM
Report this commentWill this make the BBC news i very much doubt it,
lets hope it is the headlines of the sane right wing press tomorrow.
david
on September 15, 2008
at 10:06 AM
Report this commentPlease would someone start a move to get rid of
this dreadful government. They have changed the UK beyond all
recognition and it is not a better place. This is just another example
of their ineptitude, and must be stopped.
As others have said this is unprecedented in any other country in the
world.
If muslims wish to live in the UK they MUST abide by British law. This
is not negotiable. That is if we have not ceded our rights to some
unelected bureaucrat in Brussels.
David Grey
on September 15, 2008
at 10:05 AM
Report this commentI live in Dubai - Last time i checked i was subject
to local Middle Eastern law. A lot of people know about the couple who
were caught having drunken sex on Jumeirah Beach a few months ago -
They both face lengthy prison sentences. If you want to live in a
foreign country you should be subjected to foreign law. If you want to
live under Sharia law, then move to Saudi or somewhere equally as
oppressive. This is totally wrong to allow a foreign RELIGIOUS dual
law system. I am glad to be out of England, as the whole country seems
to be sinking like the Titanic. Our country has faced internal
religious wars for hundreds of years - And we have NEVER allowed so
many allowances for one particular ethnic group.
Dan Dubai
on September 15, 2008
at 10:05 AM
Report this commentIt's illegal, check the Magna Carta. Those who
destroy the integrity of the Magna Carta are guilty of treason and are
subject to a death sentence. We need to know who allowed this
treachery and why our so- called legal profession are not acting on
our behalf in upholding the law,as is their duty? Where do the fines
go to when they are collected by these kangaroo courts? presumably
straight into the shaari bank accounts and into that charitable
organisation called the taliban which then are used to purchase the
bullets to kill our soldiers.Our dereliction of duty is second to our
stupidity for allowing ourselves to fall into this mess, it is time to
bring home our troops and send out the muslim hordes who detest
everything we stand for.
mike thompson
on September 15, 2008
at 10:05 AM
Report this commentIf people keep quite when brave souls speak up,
then the people of Britain have got the Government they deserve.
V
on September 15, 2008
at 10:05 AM
Report this commentWhilst working in a Muslim country for several
years, I was the victim of a road accident. Waiting at a roundabout,
my vehicle was struck from behind by a large 4X4, propelling it to the
centre of the roundabout and writing it off. The 4X4 had driven
through a flooded street and the driver did not dry off the brakes
before proceeding. I was taken unconcious by local people to the
general hospital where I was well cared for over several days. No
broken bones but a bad cut to the head and concussion. It was some
weeks before I could return to work.
The driver appeared later in a Shariah court where I was a witness. He
was judged not culpable and left the court without penalty. My
reasonable request for compensation for the articles lost or taken
from the car was disregarded with no explanations. My side of the case
was not heard.
That such a system of laws should be applied in Britain without the
knowledge and sanction of Parliament,and the media and wider public
being unaware,is nothing short of scandalous.
Why do the the British people allow this government and its
administrative structure to treat them in this cynical and appalling
way ??
J M Sprackling
on September 15, 2008
at 10:05 AM
Report this commentI am not a lawyer. However, a quick look at section
(1) of the Arbitration Act 1996 shows that the object of arbitration
is to obtain the fair resolution of disputes by an impartial tribunal
without unnecessary delay or expense and that the parties should be
free to agree how their disputes are resolved, subject only to such
safeguards as are necessary in the public interest.
If British citizens want, voluntarily, to have their personal disputes
resolved by Muslim law, Jewish law, French law, or any other law,
there is no public policy reason why they should not do so. This is
not overriding British law; it is proceeding within a framework
created by Parliament, and the Arbitration Act sets out many
requirements that arbitration tribunals have to comply with.
Mohammed Amin
on September 15, 2008
at 10:04 AM
Report this commentThis government eagerly panders to alien misfits,
yet despises its own people.
WAKE UP from your stupor British people, your very existence is now
threatened by this treacherous Nulabour regime. Time to take less
interest in football, beer, TV quiz shows etc. and fight for your
right to a future for you and your children in YOUR country!
Simon
on September 15, 2008
at 10:04 AM
Report this commentI am not a lawyer. However, a quick look at section
(1) of the Arbitration Act 1996 shows that the object of arbitration
is to obtain the fair resolution of disputes by an impartial tribunal
without unnecessary delay or expense and that the parties should be
free to agree how their disputes are resolved, subject only to such
safeguards as are necessary in the public interest.
If British citizens want, voluntarily, to have their personal disputes
resolved by Muslim law, Jewish law, French law, or any other law,
there is no public policy reason why they should not do so. This is
not overriding British law; it is proceeding within a framework
created by Parliament, and the Arbitration Act sets out many
requirements that arbitration tribunals have to comply with.
Mohammed Amin
on September 15, 2008
at 10:04 AM
Report this commentI used to love UK for all her contributions to
Europe and the World. It is sad to see that she has lost all her
marbles and given away what is most precious, without a fight.
Maclauder Denmark
on September 15, 2008
at 10:04 AM
Report this commentFirst political correctness. Now stealth. ... and
it's been going on since 2007 and nobody said a word to us. It will
drive non-muslims into the arms of the BNP, not just through disgust,
but through fear.
p. salt
on September 15, 2008
at 10:04 AM
Report this commentSurely this goes against the European Court of
Human Rights proclamation that Sharia is incompatible with democracy?
Colin Walls
on September 15, 2008
at 10:04 AM
Report this commentWe have allowed Mosques to be built that do not
offer equal access to women. This contravenes our law. Sharia has
allowed sons to inherit more than daughters and abused women to "stay
with" unpunished violent husbands. This also contravenes our law. It
is all disgraceful. I hope the Tories can develop some guts to
confront this before the UK is thoroughly Balkanized.
Birch
on September 15, 2008
at 10:04 AM
Report this commentNo wonder this excuse for a government rescinded
the Treason laws,(one of the first things that they did when Tone
became P.M.) because in my book the entire bunch should be tried for
Treason against the Crown and the true British public.
Jan T
on September 15, 2008
at 10:03 AM
Report this commentMuslims such as Anjem Choudary would like to see
everybody, not just Muslims, subject to Sharia ("the law of Allah").
"We do not integrate into Christianity. We will ensure that one day
you will integrate into the Sharia Islamic law." 13.11.08
Paul
on September 15, 2008
at 10:03 AM
Report this commentThe Britain I was born in and fought for is
buggered.Where are you Winston Churhill 2.
doug jacques
on September 15, 2008
at 10:02 AM
Report this commentHow can we let this happen?
Ginette
on September 15, 2008
at 10:02 AM
Report this commentWhat an absolute outrage. We have one legal system
in this country, and at risk of sounding like a right-wing fascist, I
suggest anyone who disagrees with it finds somewhere else to live. How
do we get to the stage that it's one law for me, another for someone
else, simply because of the superstitions they subscribe to?
Sharia law turns British muslim women into second class citizens. Yes,
they supposedly have the choice to go to a real court of law, but then
they risk the possibility of violence and social rejection on
returning. That's if they're aware that real courts exist, and havent
been told that the word of allah, as spouted by the sharia judge, is
law.
Anyone who can't accept our legal system should leave the country. We
can't have some disgusting medieval legal system introduced here in
the 21st century.
Pete
on September 15, 2008
at 10:01 AM
Report this commentIf I go to work or live in a muslim country, then I
am under there laws. So it should be for the UK we are not a Muslim
country it is Christian, if they dont like it then they have the
option to move out.
Jay
on September 15, 2008
at 09:47 AM
Report this commentPolice are now forced to lay assault charges no
matter how trivial the injuries; if sharia courts are able to
circumvent this, it serves a valid purpose and perhaps Christians
could learn that more support and community intervention can divert
inappropriate cases from the Courts and perhaps salvage marriages and
families from the ravages of inappropriate criminal charges;
unfortunately, this small benefit from sharia courts is massively
outweighed by the threat it poses; there needs to be a closer
assessment of the legal system to ascertain why people think they need
alternative forums to resolve problems
Mildred Brone
on September 15, 2008
at 09:41 AM
Report this commentBritish Justice, European Justice, isn't good
enought for muslims? Why these religious separatism, privileges? Why
all of these is made without debate and knowledge of the British -the
native British-?
Garcia
on September 15, 2008
at 09:41 AM
Report this commentDisgusting!Just wait a little while and there will
be a civil war in Britain. A minority of 3% of Muslims are allowed to
follow their own law! Are we still living in a democracy or is that
the start of a muslim feudalist system?
Andres
on September 15, 2008
at 09:40 AM
Report this commentif the polititions do not come to their senses and
realise what a slipery slope they are leading us down Enoch Powell`s
prediction of streets running with blood will come true.
Bernard Maskell
on September 15, 2008
at 09:40 AM
Report this commentGIVE ME STRENGTH!
These are some of the very people who want to destroy our society,
impose a World Wide Kalifdom and we are letting them do it.
Some won't be happy till the flag of Islam flies above Downing Street,
we might as well be hoisting it up for them!
Their should only be one law in this land and that should be civil
law.
David Llewellyn
on September 15, 2008
at 09:40 AM
Report this commentAs a woman I am shocked by this news. I am fearful
that women's rights are being eroded here. What has Harriet Harperson
got to say about this? Or do women's rights not apply to Muslim
women?
Janine
on September 15, 2008
at 09:39 AM
Report this commentIf the government of Britain has indeed sanctioned
Sharia courts, equal to British law/courts! I'd say to my British
cousins ( I'm from Canada)! Get out now before it's too late!Such laws
like Sharia are fine within a religious group, but should not and must
not usurp state laws! Jewish groups/Christian groups have their own
form of courts; but do not override the state! Those on trial in those
courts can at least rely on the state courts. Or they used to! Scary!
Michael Sullivan
on September 15, 2008
at 09:39 AM
Report this commentHow can any state function with two systems of
law?
I fear greatly for the consequences.
dan
on September 15, 2008
at 09:38 AM
Report this commentPlease, please can we have a general election and
get rid of this stupid Labour Government.
The present Labour Government have already done an enormous amount of
damage to the UK, can we not get rid of them?
As a country we are on the way to anarchy when we have laws that
people can choose whether they obey/recognise them.
God help us if Mr Brown stays in power much longer.
Glynn
on September 15, 2008
at 09:38 AM
Report this commentI am absolutely horrified - this is treason. This
outrage is the straw that broke the camels back - I'm joining the BNP
first thing tomorrow and I don't care who knows it.
John Godfrey
on September 15, 2008
at 09:38 AM
Report this commentI am disgusted at some of the comments I've read in
response to this article mainly because people have no idea what
shari'a law is and about the legal system is like, firstly there are
already multiple systems in place for arbitration courts in this
country including jewish talmudic courts dealing with the same issues.
The addition of Shari'a courts will make no difference and will not be
able to carry out "huduud" punishments like beheading, amputation of
hands, stoning to death etc. because of british law and because in
fact they are theoretical maximums that can only be applied in a
perfect an just society. this is a message to the ignorant masses.....
educate your self! learn about these things! and don't look at places
like saudi arabia and iran as examples of how shari'a law really is
those examples are twisted versions from the minds of extremist
clerics and should not be considered accurate.
eoghain
on September 15, 2008
at 09:37 AM
Report this commentAn interesting development but not unexpected,
perhaps this government might find it acceptable to have the Taliban
Police these localities too. It is a good thing that the Association
of the Sovereign Order of the Temple of Christ is still alive today
for we may soon require their assistance.
Cromwell
on September 15, 2008
at 09:37 AM
Report this commentMy country is slowly being taken over, will I end
up having to wear a vail so as not to upset. I wouldn't put it past
our government to let that little law through. I want my country back,
the one my father and his father fought to keep free not one thats run
by religious fanatics which I fear will happen if this chipping away
carries on.
Patricia Clarke
on September 15, 2008
at 09:36 AM
Report this commentIf Uk Muslims want Sharia Law, it's essential that
they migrate to a Muslim country.
What on earth is wrong with this simple solution?
If this was made law absolute, UK's immigration problem would be all
but solved!
hillus
on September 15, 2008
at 09:33 AM
Report this commentTO EARTH
It's no use looking to Australia. Oz now has a LABOR government and it
is following UK's attitude on this problem and practically all other
problems.
It seems that OZ is doomed to follow UK down the girglar!
hillus
on September 15, 2008
at 09:33 AM
Report this commentThe difference between the Beth Din and Sharia
courts is that within Judaism it is your duty to follow the law of the
land, THEN law of the religion. This is why Judaism has assimilated so
successfully all over the world. They respect the country's law.
Sharia seems to separate itself, allowing Muslims to ignore the law of
the land.
This is utterly disgraceful and will cause huge unrest. I am now
looking at other countries to live in.
jrewing
on September 15, 2008
at 09:22 AM
Report this commentYet another example of the apparent willingness of
our ruling political elite to deliberately undermine our national
interests, laws and culture.
Would a senior politico, bureaucrat or lawyer care to comment as to
why and by what justification?
Paul (1)
on September 15, 2008
at 09:21 AM
Report this commentMore and more, I am hoping for Australia to not
only become a republic, but treat England as an threat to world
security for the stupidity happening there is mind blowing.
Earth
on September 15, 2008
at 08:09 AM
Report this commentThis has got to be wrong, dress it up as much as
you like. Our law is decided by our democratic Parliament: the will of
the majority, and there can only be one law in the country.
This is appeasement. It didn't work in the thirties; and a thousand
years ago Danegeld didn't work either.
If Muslims don't have to look to Parliament for their law, why should
they bother with it at all? How can they feel part of the country if
they are treated differently?
There is always more. What happens next? Will they ask for their own
police force?
R Hutton
on September 15, 2008
at 08:09 AM
Report this commentTo David
on September 14, 2008
at 03:35 PM--it's my understanding that Britain did away with the
crime of treason. If I'm wrong, please clarify.
To Jeremy
on September 14, 2008
at 03:50 PM---how will you conduct a civil war? You've been disarmed,
and I read that now knives are being banned. You'll have to go against
them with 2x4s or slingshots.
Melanie
on September 15, 2008
at 08:06 AM
Report this commentwhat's the big deal people?.. Jewish Beth Din
courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and
resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They
have existed in Britain for more than 100 years..
si
on September 15, 2008
at 08:00 AM
Report this commentI have no brief whatsoever for the application of
the principles of Islamic law in the United Kingdom, but....
....in essence this is a simple arbitration issue, and if the parties
agree to be bound by the rulings, they will be so bound, unless the
determination of the panel is contrary to either UK law, or to the
common good.
What constitues the latter might make for an interesting debate.
Fred
on September 15, 2008
at 08:00 AM
Report this commentIt's official!
Muslim women and gays are now 2nd class citizens, subject to backward,
belligerent, draconian religious nonsense, now enforceable by
NuLabour, who sends our soldiers to fight in Islamic lands to replace
sharia with democracy, while busy replacing democracy with Sharia
here.
This is both domestic AND foreign policy MADNESS, and will end the
same way as every other country who has walked down this same path
with Islam.
OurUnionJacked
on September 15, 2008
at 07:58 AM
Report this commentI am thoroughly disgusted at the weak, panty
waisted (panties= knickers) politicians. These morons whom we elect
have no guts at all. Just to ensure some votes, they try to be
everything to everybody, and in doing so are nothing to anyone.
Fortunately, Muslims in the one province in Canada (Ontario) that
tried to bring in Sharia law were told "NO", and that was the end of
it - for now.
(However, the jury may still be out on that one).
Presently, immigrants to Canada are pushing the envelope from all
sides, and that horrible "political correctness" and the asinine
"multiculturalism"
are both seeking to destroy the Canada of those of us born here, and
who were brought up with a strong feeling, alliance and respect for
Britain.
If I had anywhere sane to go to, I would already be there!
Sagefoxbat
on September 15, 2008
at 07:25 AM
Report this commentA disgrace and thats all there is to say about it.
AJ
on September 15, 2008
at 07:25 AM
Report this commentThis is absolutely disgraceful. If our governments
persist in this kind of policy we will have civil war here one day.
Jeremy
on September 14, 2008
at 03:50 PM
Report this commentI have never voted before but I think next time it
will be for BNP to secure British interests
Steve Weider
on September 14, 2008
at 03:47 PM
Report this commentThis country has finally lost the plot. Our
government is pathetic and rolls over for anyone irrespective of the
consequences. I am ashamed to live here now and the sooner I can leave
this dump the better.
tj
on September 14, 2008
at 03:47 PM
Report this commentThis is utter madness. Sharia law has no place
within the British legal system. If Muslims want top comply with it,
that is their own business but are the British police supposed to
enforce forced marriages, stoning for adultery or beheading for
apostasy from Islam?
Under British law such practices are illegal and they should remain
so. Otherwise we have already conceded that parts of Britain are now
foreign lands under a different jurisdiction than the Crown.
Adrian Gilbert
on September 14, 2008
at 03:47 PM
Report this commentWhat a sad country we now live in. As a gay man I
would never go to a Sharia law country because I can't and wouldn't
expect "English Law" to look after me. How long is it then before
"getting stoned" has two meanings in this country. Another GREAT step
for a not so "great Britain"
Niall
on September 14, 2008
at 03:47 PM
Report this commentThis is the thin end of the wedge, make no mistake
about that.
Paladin
on September 14, 2008
at 03:46 PM
Report this commentOh dear! How glad I am that I've moved to a country
where the law may be somewhat draconian in some respects, but religion
& political correctness pay absolutely no part in the governance of
the country. Vive la France! &, God Bless Her - Long live the Queen.
Anna Burns
on September 14, 2008
at 03:36 PM
Report this commentI visited the UK this last month. Alas I did not
recognise the country. Who said there was no class system! I am so
pleased I emigrated. Not every where is perfect but two legal systems
is complete nonsense.
Kenneth Bell
on September 14, 2008
at 03:35 PM
Report this commentOne of the reasons people come to this country is
because of its laws, we are letting down the vulnerable in the muslim
community. For goodness sake this should be stopped.
Sunny30
on September 14, 2008
at 03:35 PM
Report this commentMy Dear UK,
It's all over now but the crying. Save yourselves.
George
on September 14, 2008
at 03:35 PM
Report this commentThe most unbelievable story of the year. If it's
true, and it appears to be, our authorities really have caved in. They
are now rationalising past the point of sanity. The muslim extremists
must be cackling up their sleeves. It seems that Britain will be a
muslim country in 10 or 20 years. Our authorities want it to be so.
Sad, sad people.
Edward
on September 14, 2008
at 03:35 PM
Report this commentHow is this possible?
How is it legal?
Why is it not front page news?
So we are being told that Nulabour by stealth is introducing Sharia
law into Britain by the back door.
Does this subverting of Her Majesty's justice perhaps constitute
'treason'?
We are moving towards a Muslim state within a state with the
complicity and indeed encouragement of the Labour Government.
david
on September 14, 2008
at 03:35 PM
Report this commentWe must be careful here, and vigilent. It cannot be
right that people of this country owe a higher allegiance to a foreign
polity than our Crown.
Andy Lewis, Chelmsford
on September 14, 2008
at 03:35 PM
Report this commentAnother nail in the coffin for women's rights.
Perhaps I should just go out and buy my burqa now. It can only be a
matter of time before the goverment, aided and abetted by the
Archbishop, decides all women should cover up out of respect for
islam- or face a sharia court and several hundred lashings.
Clare
on September 14, 2008
at 03:33 PM
Report this commentYes Riccardo 2.34, you summed it up in four words.
Blaggarde
on September 14, 2008
at 03:33 PM
Report this commentThis is political correctness gone wrong - it is
absurd! Everyone knows that if a Christian Westerner were to go and
live in a Muslim country no such reciprocity would be afforded.
This nonsensical absurdity muct be banned forthwith - laughed out of
court!
David Glazier
on September 14, 2008
at 03:33 PM
Report this commentPoor Britain,poor Europe!
riccardo italy
on September 14, 2008
at 02:34 PM
Report this commentAdvertisement
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2957428/Sharia-law-courts-operating-in-Britain.html
Mark
> Let me help you out, you little gifted child you.
I don't need your condescention.
I've stated my position. Either believe it or be wrong.
Islam is spreading across Europe.
If you're so smart why are you having to take classes?
Jackson Pillock
Priceless!
Let me ask you this. What laws would you propose to prevent people
entering into mutually agreeable arrangments for arbitrating disputes?
Would you deny this liberty? Get Big Government to intervene? Or
perhaps you would outlaw certain religions.
Jeez man, I thought you were an American.
Mark
> On 9 Feb, 22:13, Mark <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 9, 4:59 pm, Jackson Pillock <andy...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > > Let me help you out, you little gifted child you.
>
> > I don't need your condescention.
>
> > I've stated my position. Either believe it or be wrong.
>
> > Islam is spreading across Europe.
>
> > If you're so smart why are you having to take classes?
>
> Priceless!
>
> Let me ask you this. What laws would you propose to prevent people
> entering into mutually agreeable arrangments for arbitrating disputes?
Simple. There are already laws on the books to address every
conceivable sociological predicament. These are the rules to
go by.
The introduction of Islamic fundamentalism can go back to
Afghanistan where it belongs.
> Would you deny this liberty? Get Big Government to intervene?
See above.
> Or
> perhaps you would outlaw certain religions.
I thought the subject was jurisprudence.
What are you smoking man?
> Jeez man, I thought you were an American.
Non sequitur.
------
Mark
The minority report
Jackson Pillock
> On Feb 9, 5:22 pm, Jackson Pillock <andy...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9 Feb, 22:13, Mark <blueriver...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 9, 4:59 pm, Jackson Pillock <andy...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Let me help you out, you little gifted child you.
>
> > > I don't need your condescention.
>
> > > I've stated my position. Either believe it or be wrong.
>
> > > Islam is spreading across Europe.
>
> > > If you're so smart why are you having to take classes?
>
> > Priceless!
>
> > Let me ask you this. What laws would you propose to prevent people
> > entering into mutually agreeable arrangments for arbitrating disputes?
>
> Simple. There are already laws on the books to address every
> conceivable sociological predicament. These are the rules to
> go by.
Not what I asked you. If a husband and wife, for example, both grown
ups, agree to settle a dispute by going to arbitration in a Sharia
court, who should stop them, and how?
>
> The introduction of Islamic fundamentalism can go back to
> Afghanistan where it belongs.
I think you'll find that Britons, like Americans, are free to believe
whatever they want. Perhaps Christianity should go back to Jerusalem,
or Rome, or wherever you think it comes from.
>
> > Would you deny this liberty? Get Big Government to intervene?
>
> See above.
>
> > Or
> > perhaps you would outlaw certain religions.
>
> I thought the subject was jurisprudence.
You don't seem to have a problem with the Jewish courts, described in
the article. Would you discriminate against Muslims? Sorry, I simply
don't see what your problem is.
> What are you smoking man?
>
> > Jeez man, I thought you were an American.
>
> Non sequitur.
Really? Don't you share the American value of freedom of religion?
>
> ------
> Mark
> The minority report- Hide quoted text -
Grand Mal
-Oh, it's OK to say my Lord and Saviour didn't exist, but
-my minority opinion about a worthless book sends you
-swooning. Ridiculous. Simply Ridiculous.
I'm guessing your 'Lord and Saviour' is Jesus and I don't recall saying he
never existed. And I certainly never said the Bible was toilet paper. I
like Ecclesiastes. And 'John' sounds, some times, like a proper mystic.
I'm responding to your bigotry.
-At least I've not resorted to profanity, the language of
-the illiterate.
Bullshit. Profanity is the language of the inspired.
-Other than than, nothing personal. I still kinda like you
-as a person.
No you don't.
--------
Mark
Steven L.
> "Gunter Glieben Glauchen Globen" <dear...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9b856155-b2fc-459f...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 7, 6:12 pm, a...@sdrodrian.com wrote:
>> WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN
>>
>> {SDR: I have not altered a word from the
>> the folowing A. P. story]
>>
>> 2 Afghans Face Death Over Translation of Quran
>> Published: February 6, 2009
>
> I don't think a Koran is worth fighting for. Nor do I care how it's
> translated.
>
>
I decided a long time ago that Muslims really are just like Klingons.
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Grand Mal
>If you're so smart why are you having to take classes?
Beautiful. I love it. I couldn't create irony like this and I'm pretty
inventive.
Grand Mal
"Steven L." <sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:PdGdnaosSOOymQzU...@earthlink.com...
>
> I decided a long time ago that Muslims really are just like Klingons.
Here I was thinking it remarkable that stupid people were allowed to drive
cars and apparently they also have access to the internet.
Alan Hope
>Reference supplied by boots, always ready to throw
>gas on the fire. I found many more, but if you reject my
>sources then reasoning won't be possible.
Your sources are fine, you simply don't understand what they're
telling you.
Jackson has already taken care of this question of Sharia courts.
There's nothing more to say. It's too bad you're too stupid to grasp
his simple explanation, but at least those others reading, who might
have been persuaded by your hysterical claims, will get a chance to
understand.
Mark
Allen, they aren't *my* hysterical claims.
There are many other facets to this cultural pollution
other than what Jackson addressed. Many.
There are entire programs dedicated to the study
of this pollution.
Mark
Mark
Mark
> - Show quoted text -
Homosexual want to whine about gay rights.
Cops get an erection when someone with natural
power makes an appearance.
Blacks are convinced that life holds no opportunities
as long a "Whitey is in control".
Muslims are obsessed with vaginal control.
Ancient Egyptians were obsessed with eternal life.
Woody Allen is obsessed with death.
And YOU, my friend, are obsessed with Adolph Hitler.
-------
Mark
Alan Hope
>On Feb 10, 6:55 am, Alan Hope <usenet.ident...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mark goes:
>> >Reference supplied by boots, always ready to throw
>> >gas on the fire. I found many more, but if you reject my
>> >sources then reasoning won't be possible.
>> Your sources are fine, you simply don't understand what they're
>> telling you.
>> Jackson has already taken care of this question of Sharia courts.
>> There's nothing more to say. It's too bad you're too stupid to grasp
>> his simple explanation, but at least those others reading, who might
>> have been persuaded by your hysterical claims, will get a chance to
>> understand.
>Allen,
Are you blind, dyslexic or just illiterate. My name is on the top of
every one of my posts, and when you quote me, it's also at the top of
yours. So how come you can't spell a simple four-letter word
correctly?
>they aren't *my* hysterical claims.
>There are many other facets to this cultural pollution
>other than what Jackson addressed. Many.
Well no, there aren't. You posted over 3000 lines of "evidence" which
consisted of nothing else.
>There are entire programs dedicated to the study
>of this pollution.
There are programmes devoted to the study of religious pollution in
general, because you see you're all as bad as each other.
Grand Mal
-Homosexual want to whine about gay rights.
-Cops get an erection when someone with natural
-power makes an appearance.
-Blacks are convinced that life holds no opportunities
-as long a "Whitey is in control".
-Muslims are obsessed with vaginal control.
-Ancient Egyptians were obsessed with eternal life.
--Woody Allen is obsessed with death.
-And YOU, my friend, are obsessed with Adolph Hitler.
-------
-Mark
Oh, this ought to be interesting. What convoluted thought process leads you
to this bizarre conclusion?
Manwolf
Homosexuals are taking on multiple wives
Blacks are, as always, obsessed with death
Whitey is secretly gay
Cops are obsessed with Adolph Hitler
Erections (and elections) are not natural
The Iraqi's are jizzing on all our Big Macs
Rumor has it Hollywood wants to film a monster movie but there is
currently too much fighting going on in the mountains
They're stringing up Barney in the streets
Mark
> Vaginal Rights are getting out of control
Their demands are inherent within
Homosexuals are taking on multiple wives
Duplicitous fairies with friends
Blacks are, as always, obsessed with death
The malignant stench of pot filled breath
Whitey is secretly gay
Call him "Peaches",you don't have to pay
Cops are obsessed with Adolph Hitler
Oink Oink, Oh Captain, my Captain.
Erections (and elections) are not natural
They only rise to the occasion of persuation
The Iraqi's are jizzing on all our Big Macs
Two all beef sunnis, special sauce, dynamite
Rumor has it Hollywood wants to film a monster movie but there is
currently too much fighting going on in the mountains
King Kong runs thru the hills, between the bamboo and willows
Being cut in the mist as the guerillas chase the gorillias
They're stringing up Barney in the streets
As purple blood drips from his feet
Mark
The minority report
Tim Bruening
> WHY WE ARE FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN
>
> {SDR: I have not altered a word from the
> the folowing A. P. story]
>
> 2 Afghans Face Death Over Translation of Quran
> Published: February 6, 2009
>
> KABUL (AP) -- No one knows who brought the book to the
> mosque, or at least no one dares say.
>
> The pocket-size translation of the Quran has already
> landed six men in prison in Afghanistan and left two
> of them begging judges to spare their lives. They're
> accused of modifying the Quran and their fate could be
> decided Sunday in court.
>
> The trial illustrates what critics call the undue
> influence of hardline clerics in Afghanistan, a major
> hurdle as the country tries to establish a lawful
> society amid war and militant violence.
>
> The book appeared among gifts left for the cleric at a
> major Kabul mosque after Friday prayers in September
> 2007. It was a translation of the Quran into one of
> Afghanistan's languages, with a note giving permission
> to reprint the text as long as it was distributed for
> free.
>
> Some of the men of the mosque said the book would be
> useful to Afghans who didn't know Arabic, so they took
> up a collection for printing. The mosque's cleric
> asked Ahmad Ghaws Zalmai, a longtime friend, to get
> the books printed.
>
> But as some of the 1,000 copies made their way to
> conservative Muslim clerics in Kabul, whispers began,
> then an outcry.
>
> Many clerics rejected the book because it did not
> include the original Arabic verses alongside the
> translation. It's a particularly sensitive detail for
> Muslims, who regard the Arabic Quran as words given
> directly by God. A translation is not considered a
> Quran itself, and a mistranslation could warp God's
> word.
>
> The clerics said Zalmai, a stocky 54-year-old
> spokesman for the attorney general, was trying to
> anoint himself as a prophet. They said his book was
> trying to replace the Quran, not offer a simple
> translation. Translated editions of the Quran abound
> in Kabul markets, but they include Arabic verses.
>
> The country's powerful Islamic council issued an edict
> condemning the book.
>
> ''In all the mosques in Afghanistan, all the mullahs
> said, 'Zalmai is an infidel. He should be killed,'''
> Zalmai recounted as he sat outside the chief judge's
> chambers waiting for a recent hearing.
>
> Zalmai lost friends quickly. He was condemned by
> colleagues and even by others involved in the book's
> printing. A mob stoned his house one night, said his
> brother, Mahmood Ghaws.
>
> Police arrested Zalmai as he was fleeing to Pakistan,
> along with three other men the government says were
> trying to help him escape. The publisher and the
> mosque's cleric, who signed a letter endorsing the
> book, were also jailed.
>
> There is no law in Afghanistan prohibiting the
> translation of the Quran. But Zalmai is accused of
> violating Islamic Shariah law by modifying the Quran.
> The courts in Afghanistan, an Islamic state, are
> empowered to apply Shariah law when there are no
> applicable existing statutes.
>
> And Afghanistan's court system appears to be stacked
> against those accused of religious crimes. Judges
> don't want to seem soft on potential heretics and
> lawyers don't want to be seen defending them, said
> Afzal Shurmach Nooristani, whose Afghan Legal Aid
> group is defending Zalmai.
>
> The prosecutor wants the death penalty for Zalmai and
> the cleric, who have now spent more than a year in
> prison.
>
> Sentences on religious infractions can be harsh. In
> January 2008, a court sentenced a journalism student
> to death for blasphemy for asking questions about
> women's rights under Islam. An appeals court reduced
> the sentence to 20 years in prison. His lawyers
> appealed again and the case is pending.
>
> In 2006, an Afghan man was sentenced to death for
> converting to Christianity. He was later ruled insane
> and was given asylum in Italy. Islamic leaders and the
> parliament accused President Hamid Karzai of being a
> puppet for the West for letting him live.
>
> Nooristani, who is also defending the journalism
> student, said he and his colleagues have received
> death threats.
>
> ''The mullahs in the mosques have said whoever defends
> an infidel is an infidel,'' Nooristani said.
>
> The legal aid organization, which usually represents
> impoverished defendants, is defending Zalmai because
> no one else would take the case.
>
> ''We went to all the lawyers and they said, 'We can't
> help you because all the mullahs are against you. If
> we defend you, the mullahs will say that we should be
> killed.' We went six months without a lawyer,'' Zalmai
> said outside the judge's chambers.
>
> The publisher was originally sentenced to five years
> in prison. Zalmai and the cleric were sentenced to 20,
> and now the prosecutor is demanding the death penalty
> for the two as a judge hears appeals.
>
> Nearly everyone in court claims ignorance now.
>
> The mosque's mullah says he never read the book and
> that he was duped into signing the letter. The print
> shop owner says neither he nor any of his employees
> read the book, noting that it's illegal for them to
> read materials they publish.
>
> Zalmai pleaded for forgiveness before a January
> hearing, saying he had assumed a stand-alone
> translation wasn't a problem.
>
> ''You can find these types of translations in Turkey,
> in Russia, in France, in Italy,'' he said.
>
> When the chief judge later banged his gavel to silence
> shouting lawyers and nodded at Zalmai to explain
> himself, the defendant stood and chanted Quranic
> verses as proof that he was a devout Muslim who should
> be forgiven.
>
> Shariah law is applied differently in Islamic states.
> Saudi Arabia claims the Quran as its constitution,
> while Malaysia has separate religious and secular
> courts.
>
> But since there is no ultimate arbiter of religious
> questions in Afghanistan, judges must strike a balance
> between the country's laws and proclamations by
> clerics or the Islamic council, called the Ulema
> council.
>
> Judges are ''so nervous about annoying the Ulema
> council and being criticized that they tend to push
> the Islamic cases aside and just defer to what others
> say,'' said John Dempsey, a legal expert with the U.S.
> Institute of Peace in Kabul.
>
> Deferring to the council means that edicts issued by
> the group of clerics can influence rulings more than
> laws on the books or a judge's own interpretation of
> Shariah law, he said.
>
> Judges have to be careful about whom they might anger
> with their rulings. In September, gunmen killed a top
> judge with Afghanistan's counter-narcotics court.
> Other judges have been gunned down as well.
>
> Mahmood Ghaws said that even if his brother is found
> innocent, their family will never be treated the same.
>
> ''When I go out in the street, people don't say hello
> to me in the way they used to,'' he said. ''They don't
> ask after my family.''
>
So we are fighting to abolish the religious courts in Afghanistan, and rescue
those who have been sentenced to death for religious crimes?
Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan!
"Tim Bruening" <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:4A1311C0...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
I thought it was more of a "Muslims are stark raving lunatics who shouldn't
be in charge of a lemonade stand, let alone a country." type of thing.
Personally I'd say that, like any religion, a few extremists are screwing it
up for everybody.
LG
--
Freedom, by its nature, cannot be imposed -- it must be chosen. From Beirut
to Baghdad, people are making the choice for freedom. - George W. Bush
Dale McGill
> On Sat, 7 Feb. 2009 15:12:13 -0800 (PST), a...@sdrodrian.com wrote:
>
> So we are fighting to abolish the religious courts in Afghanistan, and
> rescue those who have been sentenced to death for religious crimes?
>
Timmy, Why oh why? please this is about Star Trek not politics!
Dale
Damit, I'm a Trek fan not a political wonk!
Tim Bruening
Dale McGill wrote:
Tim Bruening <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in
news:4A1311C0...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us:
Timmy, Why oh why? please this is about Star Trek not politics!
On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 03:16:46 -0500, "Orsen Wells w/Citizen Cain"
<noe...@here.invalidd> was the one who added
alt.tv.star-trek.tos to this thread, not me.