FBI looking at foreign suspects (Anthrax)
TonyZ2001
in his Still?
Tony
IRAQ NEWS, TUESDAY, APRIL 2, 2002
I. FBI QUESTIONS UK SCIENTISTS, SUNDAY TELEGRAPH, MARCH 31
II. ED EPSTEIN, UK HAS ANTHRAX STRAIN, WSJ, DEC 24 01
The Sunday Telegraph, Mar 31, reported that FBI agents tracing the
source of the anthrax letters "want to question scientists at Porton Down,
the British defence establishment. . . . Bulk quantities of the Ames
strain were sent to Porton Down in the mid-1980s because British scientists
wanted to develop vaccines against the disease. . .
"[FBI agents} have already contacted at least four other laboratories
around the world that have also been sent the Ames strain. American
investigators believe that most of the anthrax sent in letters was
manufactured in a military installation or research laboratory. Van Harp,
the FBI's assistant director, told CNN last week: 'Contrary to what was
initially out there at the beginning of the investigation, this anthrax, we
do not believe, was made up in a garage or a bathtub.'"
Indeed, Edward Jay Epstein, writing in the WSJ, Dec 24, criticized the
FBI's focus on a "domestic loner;" pointed to the Proton Down facility as a
recipient of the Ames strain; and raised questions about security there,
particularly because of an earlier, partial privatization involving a
Lebanese citizen--questions which are also relevant to the US facility which
produces the anthrax vaccine.
I. FBI QUESTIONS UK SCIENTISTS, SUNDAY TELEGRAPH
Sunday Telegraph (London)
March 31, 2002
FBI anthrax attack team to question Porton Down scientists
By Rajeev Syal
(Filed: 31/03/2002)
FBI agents tracing the source of deadly anthrax attacks in America want to
question scientists at Porton Down, the British defence establishment over
fears that the spores may have been smuggled out of a British laboratory.
They have established that the Ministry of Defence's centre in Wiltshire has
experimented on the Ames strain of anthrax - identical to that sent to
American journalists and politicians. Agents in Washington will request a
list of scientists who have had access to the samples of anthrax used in MoD
laboratories over the past 15 years. The British Government is currently
developing a new vaccine against the disease.
FBI officials confirmed that they would approach British scientists while
tracing the anthrax strain. A spokesman said that officers are aware that
the strain was kept in Britain and are covering all possible outlets.
Sue Ellison, the spokesman for Porton Down, confirmed last night that the
authorities were aware of FBI inquiries and would help when approached. "We
keep a full list of where the anthrax samples are sent, and would give these
details to the relevant authorities. In the UK, we work closely with our
American partners and we will continue to do so."
An American investigation to discover the source of the anthrax was launched
last September after contaminated letters were sent to Congressmen and
journalists. Four American citizens died after more than 20 parcels and
letters were found to contain a fine, white powder that was a refined form
of the deadly bacteria. Scientists and law enforcement agents have
established that anthrax sent in some letters was the Ames strain of the
virus - originally used by the US Army Medical Research Institute of
Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), in Ford Detrick, Maryland.
Bulk quantities of the Ames strain were sent to Porton Down in the mid-1980s
because British scientists wanted to develop vaccines against the disease.
FBI agents want to establish who has had access to anthrax at Porton Down
over the past 15 years. They have already contacted at least four other
laboratories around the world that have also been sent the Ames strain.
American investigators believe that most of the anthrax sent in letters was
manufactured in a military installation or research laboratory.
Van Harp, the FBI's assistant director, told CNN last week: "Contrary to
what was initially out there at the beginning of the investigation, this
anthrax, we do not believe, was made up in a garage or a bathtub."
A spokesman for USAMRIID confirmed that the Ames strain was sent to Ministry
of Defence scientists in the 1980s. "We have provided a list of places where
we sent the disease to the appropriate authorities," she said.
Scientists at Porton Down are testing a vaccine against anthrax
contamination that will require only one injection. At present, vaccines
require a series of injections. They are also testing a range of genetically
modified superbugs, including bubonic plague, smallpox and gangrene.
II. ED EPSTEIN, UK HAS ANTHRAX STRAIN
FBI Overlooks Foreign Sources of Anthrax
WALL STREET JOURNAL
December 24, 2001
Commentary
by Edward Jay Epstein
The government seems hell-bent in its effort to limit the suspects in
the anthrax mystery to a domestic loner. First, the FBI's behavioral
analysis came up with the profile of a lone wolf based on its "exacting
handwriting and linguistic analysis" of one letter that contained 18 words
and another that contained 27 words. It suggested that the writer of these
two letters was a single disgruntled American, not connected to the jihadist
terrorists of Sept. 11 (even though the letter used the plural pronoun "we"
and began with an underlined "9-11").
The problem is that this approach could not apply to the attacks for
which no letter was found, such as the one in Florida. More important, the
"lone wolf" theory failed to explain how a single person could acquire a
virulent strain of Ames bacteria and weaponize it into an aerosol by milling
the spore to one to five microns in diameter and producing billions of
spores.
Initially, the FBI theorized that this strain was widely available,
since it had been circulated to thousands of researchers, but this confused
the nonvirulent Ames strain (which lacked an outer protective shells and
toxic proteins) with the virulent one contained in the letters. As it turned
out, only a small number of repositories -- fewer than 20 -- ever had access
to the virulent strain. The search might have been narrowed down to a single
repository if the FBI had not allowed an Agriculture Department facility at
Iowa State to destroy through incineration the specimens that constituted
the "family tree" of the Ames strain (which had originally been found in
1932 in Ames, Iowa).
Next, an analysis at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff found
that the DNA of the anthrax used in the attacks was indistinguishable from
an Ames strain sample provided by the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute
of Infectious Disease at Fort Detrick, Md. At this point, the White House
spokesman Ari Fleischer commented that the "evidence is increasingly looking
like" the anthrax-laced letters came from a domestic source.
This assumption is premature. The virulent strain of the Ames virus is
also found abroad.
David Franz, who headed the biological-research program at Fort
Detrick between 1987 and 1998, said that when the Army wanted to conduct
defensive experiment on the Ames strain, it had to obtain the "information"
from a British military lab that did experiments with Ames anthrax in the
powdered form. Evidently, the virulent Ames strain had been sent from the
U.S. to Britain, and, after the U.S. destroyed its stockpiles in the 1970s,
samples had to be obtained from the British facility at Porton Downs,
specifically from the Center for Applied Microbiology and Research (CAMR).
Martin Hugh-Jones, a scientist at Louisiana State University who received a
sample from CAMR in the 1990s, recalls that it was marked "October, 1932."
So the matching sample traces not only to the U.S. but to Britain.
The security of the British anthrax bacteria is complicated by its
privatization. In 1993, at the time it was supplying the virulent Ames
strain sample, CAMR was partly privatized by the British government through
a marketing agreement with Porton Products Ltd. in which Porton sold all its
anthrax vaccine. Porton Products was owned by Speywood Holdings Ltd., which,
in turn, was owned by I&F Holdings NV, a Netherlands Antilles corporate
shell owned by Fuad El-Hibri, a Lebanese Arab with joint German-U.S.
citizenship; his father, Ibrihim El-Hibri; and possibly other undisclosed
investors.
Prior to his taking over this biotech company, Fuad El-Hibri had
worked in the mergers-and-acquisitions department of Citibank in Jedda,
Saudi Arabia, where he specialized in arranging investments for large Saudi
investors. Saudi Arabia then was interested in obtaining an anthrax vaccine
to counter Saddam Hussein's biological warfare capabilities. But the U.S.
would not provide it.
So when Mr. El-Hibri took over the British biotech lab, he reorganized
its bio-terrorism defense business, and arranged deliveries of biotech
defense products to Saudi Arabia. Mr. El-Hibri was unavailable for comment,
but the ownership is a matter of record and he has not made a secret of his
involvement in bio-warfare research. Indeed, he testified before Congress in
1999: "I participated in the marketing and distribution of substantial
quantities of two bio-defense vaccines -- botulinum Type A and anthrax."
Even more intriguing, Mr. El-Hibri's interest in anthrax vaccines did
not stop with his deal with CAMR. In 1998, he arranged a leveraged buyout of
the Michigan Biological Products Institute. MBPI, which originally had been
owned by the state of Michigan, held the exclusive contract for providing
the U.S. government with anthrax vaccine. While its vaccine worked well
against the Vollum strain of anthrax (used by Russia), it was more
problematic against the Ames strain. So it had conducted tests with the
virulent Ames strain on guinea pigs, mice and monkeys with mixed results.
BioPort's spokeperson confirmed that it had access to the virulent Ames
strain for testing on animals. To take over MBPI, Mr. El-Hibri became an
American citizen, and gave retired Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., a former
chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a large block of stock in Intervac,
one of the corporations involved in the maneuver. The controlling
shareholder was the same I&F Holdings used to take control of the British
biotech lab, CAMR. He then renamed the company BioPort. BioPort, which
controlled America's anthrax vaccine, was apparently of some interests to
scientists in Afghanistan since an environmental assessment report of its
planned laboratory renovations was turned up in the house of a Pakistani
scientist in Kabul.
So far, the offshore availability of anthrax has been overshadowed by
the search for a domestic lone wolf. Since the lethal bacteria could have
been stolen from either a foreign or domestic lab, weaponized in a stealthed
bio-warfare facility overseas and sent in ziplock bags to the person mailing
the letters, The investigative focus needs to be widened.
Ed Lake
It's been a long time since I thought the anthrax terrorist was a "lone wolf".
Does anyone still believe that? Does the FBI still believe that?
Ask yourself: If the FBI does not know exactly who the terrorist is, how can
they possibly know that the person who stole the anthrax is the same person who
mailed the anthrax? Why couldn't the anthrax have changed hands? How could it
be possible for the FBI to know that it didn't change hands?
I think any idea that the 9-11 terrorists sent the anthrax is ridiculous, since
they had all been dead a week before the first mailing and a month before the
second mailing.
But there is plenty of reason to believe that a domestic "terrorist" sent the
anthrax. It probably just wasn't the same guy who stole the anthrax.
I watched that CNN show where Harp said the FBI no longer thinks the anthrax was
brewed up in a bathtub. That comment seemed to be taken out of context. He
seemed to be talking about the very early days of the investigation when no one
knew anything and it seemed likely that someone could have brewed up a batch of
anthrax in a bathtub. From what I could tell, he still believes what was
written in the FBI's letter to 40,000 microbiologists a couple months ago: "It
is possible this person used off-hours in a laboratory or may have even
established an improvised or concealed facility comprised of sufficient
equipment to produce the anthrax."
Ed
http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/
TonyZ2001 wrote:
> Gee, you mean it wasn't Gomer mixing up Anthrax
> in his Still?
> Tony
>
> IRAQ NEWS, TUESDAY, APRIL 2, 2002
> I. FBI QUESTIONS UK SCIENTISTS, SUNDAY TELEGRAPH, MARCH 31
> II. ED EPSTEIN, UK HAS ANTHRAX STRAIN, WSJ, DEC 24 01
>
(snip)
> Van Harp, the FBI's assistant director, told CNN last week: "Contrary to
> what was initially out there at the beginning of the investigation, this
> anthrax, we do not believe, was made up in a garage or a bathtub."
>
(snip)
> The government seems hell-bent in its effort to limit the suspects in
> the anthrax mystery to a domestic loner. First, the FBI's behavioral
> analysis came up with the profile of a lone wolf based on its "exacting
> handwriting and linguistic analysis" of one letter that contained 18 words
> and another that contained 27 words. It suggested that the writer of these
> two letters was a single disgruntled American, not connected to the jihadist
> terrorists of Sept. 11 (even though the letter used the plural pronoun "we"
> and began with an underlined "9-11").
>
> The problem is that this approach could not apply to the attacks for
> which no letter was found, such as the one in Florida. More important, the
> "lone wolf" theory failed to explain how a single person could acquire a
> virulent strain of Ames bacteria and weaponize it into an aerosol by milling
> the spore to one to five microns in diameter and producing billions of
> spores.
>
(snip)
Craig Miller
> Gee, you mean it wasn't Gomer mixing up Anthrax
> in his Still?
> Tony
>
> IRAQ NEWS, TUESDAY, APRIL 2, 2002
> I. FBI QUESTIONS UK SCIENTISTS, SUNDAY TELEGRAPH, MARCH 31
> II. ED EPSTEIN, UK HAS ANTHRAX STRAIN, WSJ, DEC 24 01
BBC TV did an expose on what it would take in order to construct a lab
capable of processing Anthrax to the degree seen in the letters. They
figured it would take a couple of thousand dollars worth of equpiment
from typical mail order catalogues.
Emo.
Sid Omigo
anthrax was directly linked to scientists working for the federal
government at Ft. Detrick's labs. Now they are pointing finger to
'foreign suspects'.
Maurice
Ask the FBI: The anthrax investigation
Tuesday, March 26, 11 a.m. ET
***What ever happened to the FBI's search for the
culprit(s)? Chat with Van A. Harp, Assistant Director in Charge of
the
Washington Field Office, about the latest news on the anthrax
investigation.
***
washington dc : do you think the person responsible for the letters
is connected to the military labs or the us government contractors...
Van A. Harp: We haven't identified the person responsible. It would
be premature and unfair to all the dedicated employees in the labs and
government contractors to speculate.
***
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia : Does the FBI have any evidence to
support or refute the claims made by Jeremy Paxman on BBC's Newsnight?
Did the FBI discover any evidence indicating possible CIA involvement
in the DC Anthrax attacks?
Van A. Harp: I did not see the program. To answer the question about
CIA involvement, the answer is emphatically, no.
***
Van A. Harp: Similar to the earlier question about motive, I wish I
knew why this was done. Any connection or rationale for the anthrax
attacks at this point would be speculation.
***
Alexandria, VA : Are there Agents following up on leads about labs in
Afghanistan?
Van A. Harp: We have been following developments from Afghanistan
very closely in connection with our investigation.
***
Freehold, N.J. : Has the FBI had any success so far in solving this
case? Any clues, fingerprints, etc?
Van A. Harp: We have not identified the individual responsible. We
have very limited forensic evidence, other than the anthrax itself.
***
houston texas : If you had to make an educated guess today where the
anthrax was from , and taking into consideration the new findings in
Afghanistan of labs possibly capable of producing anthrax, does it
seem more likely now that the anthrax did come from al qaeda sources
rather than our own domestic terrorist?
Van A. Harp: Based on our investigation to date, we have developed
several theories regarding the anthrax origin. However, we are not
ruling anything in or out.
***
ann arbor, mi : Hi Agent Harp; I've been seeing sporatic press reports
of anthrax issues being linked to foreign terrorist groups: -medical
reports of a hijacker that may have had lesions like cutaneous
anthrax. -anthrax infrastructures in Afghanistan. Sure, all scenarios
are on the table, but how will the FBI limit the possibilities between
a foreign- vs. domestic-born source for the Fall
anthrax attacks? Best, Phil Hanna
Van A. Harp: Part of our investigation involves a significant effort
into the scientific analysis of the anthrax. Upon completion of that
effort, along with the thousands of interviews, we hope to be able to
identify the exact source.
Regarding the hijacker who some believe may have had anthrax,
exhaustive testing did not support that anthrax was present anywhere
the hijackers had been.
WDC : How close is the FBI to finding out who mailed the letters?
Van A. Harp: We have made substantial progress in our investigation,
but unfortunately we have not identified the perpetrator. I'm
confident that in the long run, we will be able to do so.
***
Salt Lake City, Utah : Were the anthrax attacks linked to the
terrorism on Sept 11, 2001?
Van A. Harp: We have no information connecting the anthrax attack to
September 11.
***
Washington DC : What was the last major announcement to the public
about the investigation?
I mean FBI, not the tv news...
Van A. Harp: See the New York Times for Saturday, March 23, regarding
the report out of Florida. Also, the Wall Street Journal on the 25th.
Jean Guernon
assholes like Tony's ideal, iothey will find them.
Neither is worth any deference.
J.
Sid Omigo a écrit :
TonyZ2001
wrote:
>Tony,
>
>It's been a long time since I thought the anthrax terrorist was a "lone
>wolf".
>Does anyone still believe that?
Yep, many on this group still believe this, in fact I know that many her and in
this nation are hoping that it is a right wing kook.
Against all evidence I might add.
Tony
Sid Omigo
ones doing the investigating
Ed Lake
Tony,
I think you misunderstand me. My point is that it doesn't appear to be a "lone
wolf". If it was a "lone wolf", they would have positively identified him by now.
How many people can there be who worked with anthrax in a government lab and were
ALSO in Trenton on September 18 and October 9?
Why couldn't the anthrax have changed hands? I.e., why can't the guy who stole the
anthrax and the guy who mailed the anthrax be two different people?
What their politics were is beside the point. So what if they were "right wing"?
The idea is to catch them. And we could be missing a lot of suspects if we keep
thinking that one "lone wolf" must have stole the anthrax AND mailed it.
Jean Guernon
Maurice
follows:
"Based on the selection of Anthrax as the "weapon" of choice by this
individual, the offender:
• is likely an adult male.
• if employed, is likely to be in a position requiring
little contact with the public, or other employees. He may work in a
laboratory. He is apparently comfortable working with an extremely
hazardous material. He probably has a scientific background to some
extent, or at least a strong interest in science.
• has likely taken appropriate protective steps to ensure
his own safety, which may include the use of an Anthrax vaccination or
antibiotics.
• has access to a source of Anthrax and possesses knowledge
and expertise to refine it.
• possesses or has access to some laboratory equipment;
i.e., microscope, glassware, centrifuge, etc.
• has exhibited an organized, rational thought process in
furtherance of his criminal behavior.
• has a familiarity, direct or indirect, with the Trenton,
NJ, metropolitan area; however, this does not necessarily mean he
currently lives in the Trenton, NJ, area.. He is comfortable traveling
in and around this locale.
• did not select victims randomly. He made an effort to
identify the correct address, including zip code, of each victim and
used sufficient postage to ensure proper delivery of the letters. The
offender deliberately "selected" NBC News, the New York Post, and the
office of Senator Tom Daschle as the targeted victims (and possibly
AMI in Florida). These targets are probably very
important to the offender. They may have been the focus of previous
expressions of contempt which may have been communicated to others, or
observed by others.
• is a non-confrontational person, at least in his public
life. He lacks the personal skills necessary to confront others. He
chooses to confront his problems "long distance" and not face-to-face.
He may hold grudges for a long time, vowing that he will get even with
"them" one day. There are probably other, earlier examples of this
type of behavior. While these earlier
incidents were not actual Anthrax mailings, he may have chosen to
anonymously harass other individuals or entities that he perceived as
having wronged him. He may also have chosen to utilize the mail on
those occasions.
• prefers being by himself more often than not. If he is
involved in a personal relationship it will likely be of a self
serving nature."
TonyZ2001
wrote:
>
>TonyZ2001 wrote:
>
>> >Ed Lake det...@newsguy.com
>> wrote:
>> >Tony,
>> >
>> >It's been a long time since I thought the anthrax terrorist was a "lone
>> >wolf".
>> >Does anyone still believe that?
>>
>> Yep, many on this group still believe this, in fact I know that many her
>and in
>> this nation are hoping that it is a right wing kook.
>>
>> Against all evidence I might add.
>>
>> Tony
>
>Tony,
>I think you misunderstand me. My point is that it doesn't appear to be a
>"lone
>wolf". If it was a "lone wolf", they would have positively identified him by
>now.
I understood you completely, I was just pointing out that many people still
want to believe the lone kook theory.
>How many people can there be who >worked with anthrax in a government lab >and
were ALSO in Trenton on >September 18 and October 9?
No need for them to have worked for a lab nor been in Trenton on those dates.
>Why couldn't the anthrax have changed hands? I.e., why can't the guy who
>stole the
>anthrax and the guy who mailed the >anthrax be two different people?
It wasn't stolen, it was most likely smuggled or mailed into the USA from
Europe and originated most likely in Iraq.
>What their politics were is beside the >point. So what if they were "right
>wing"?
My point is that there are many left wing people who are hoping that it was a
right wing kook so that they can point fingers and then rally against Bush.
>The idea is to catch them. And we could be missing a lot of suspects if we
>keep
>thinking that one "lone wolf" must have >stole the anthrax AND mailed it.
Exactly. And the evidence points to Al Qeada.
Tony
Ed Lake
Tony,
You really believe that? In spite of all the evidence to the contrary?
Well, I guess if you really believe something, then any proof to the contrary is
just "what they want you to believe". It's so easy to avoid looking at evidence by
merely saying it's all a government coverup and all the evidence is faked.
>
> >What their politics were is beside the >point. So what if they were "right
> >wing"?
>
> My point is that there are many left wing people who are hoping that it was a
> right wing kook so that they can point fingers and then rally against Bush.
>
> >The idea is to catch them. And we could be missing a lot of suspects if we
> >keep
> >thinking that one "lone wolf" must have >stole the anthrax AND mailed it.
>
> Exactly. And the evidence points to Al Qeada.
>
> Tony
The idea that al Qaeda was behind the anthrax mailings is really absurd. There is
NO evidence supporting that theory.
Here's my evaluation of the al Qaeda theory:
http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/AlQaeda.html
Ed Lake
Yes, but if his source for the anthrax is another person, then the entire
"lone wolf" profile could pertain only to the anthrax mailer.
If the FBI does not know exactly who did it, how can they possibly know
the person who stole the anthrax is the same person who processed and
mailed it?
I think the FBI needs to clarify this point.
Ed
Maurice
> It wasn't stolen, it was most likely smuggled or mailed into the USA from
> Europe and originated most likely in Iraq.
>
and also
> Exactly. And the evidence points to Al Qeada.
>
> Tony
These are reasonable suggestions, to be sure. What is the best
evidence in support of the Iraq theory? Ari Fleischer was very quick
to emphasize the absence of bentonite, as confirmed by recent tests.
(WSJ, March 26).
And so what does that leave us with:
1) what is the evidence about the meeting between the Iraqi case agent
and Atta?
Were they having tea? Reminiscing? What intelligence agencies
reported that? The locals? The Egyptians? The Israelis? Did they
have an agenda to mislead? If it was Egyptian intelligence, why would
they have motive to get it wrong?
2) The Christian Science Monitor yesterday had a lengthy article about
Iraqi plots against the US. The informer making the claims was an
Iranian captured by the Kurds (who had been considered Iraqi and
trusted by the Iraqis). He says, in addition to 9 different major
Iraqi plots as I recall, he was hired to smuggle refrigerator motors
containing an unidentified liquid to the Taliban. I think the
suggestion was that Saddam considered himself to still be at war.
Might the Kurds or Iranians or someone else be looking to get Saddam
in trouble or is the informer's reports accurate?
3) And then there's the recent New Yorker article giving detail of Dr.
Zawahiri's trip to Baghdad in 1992. That was the year after he
travelled to California, NYC, and Washington, D.C. in the company of a
California pediatrician (a former classmate) and a former US Army
sergeant. What was he doing here? Raising funds for the Red
Crescent?
4) Now as for Iraq's capability, Dr. Taha (sp?) was an accomplished
scientist along these lines. Didn't they find a couple coffin-like
filtering devices used to get the spore size down? (I'm not one of
the two dozen scientists who know the recipe, but I believe milling is
not used as that results in debris). Instead, sequential filtering is
used.
5) But does the Al Qaeda need Baghdad for this? One of the news
magazines had an early report about a Russian renegade scientist
helping out.
Another feature in the US News (I think) had a description of a
Filipino scientist who was proud of his skills at manipulating anthrax
(and had introduction papers from Dr. Zawahiri).
Zawahiri's home in Kabul, by the way, reportedly tested positive for
anthrax.
6) As for whether Al Qaeda is responsible, I would say yes. Mullahs
who hated the US took great interest in overseeing the Taliban anthrax
vaccine laboratory. But as for the source of the anthrax, I suspect
that Keim's analysis already establishes that it so close to the
strain at Ft. Detrick in the early 1990s that Iraq is ruled out. And
access to the US Army strain is a requirement.
7) But in an era of Hansens (the senior FBI agent who spied for the
Russians) and unemployed Russian bioweaponeers -- and given security
was so lax -- why is it so hard to believe that a multi-millionaire
could get the "good stuff", or at least the US Army recipe, with
little problem. If you're looking for a financial motive, how's this
for one: pay me $500,000 and I'll give you the recipe for making the
good stuff.
Trial testimony in Egypt has established that Bin Laden purchased
anthrax by mail order in 1997. And so it's not like there's any
mystery as to whether they already had purchased anthrax. All the
General in charge has saidis that there's no evidence they've
weaponized it or processed it in bulk.
So I agree with Tony that al Qaeda is behind the anthrax mailings --
specifically, I submit that Dr. Ayman Zawahiri is the brains behind
it. But I'm far less sure about any Iraqi connection. And I'd say
given the stakes, a very high burden of proof is required even for an
editorial. And the Wall Street Journal's editorial notwithstanding
(about Iraq and anthrax), the burden has not at all been met.
Ed Lake
> Brian Ross had a general story today on ABC reporting that the FBI has
> no suspects, few clues. (Ari Fleischer on the other hand has said
> there are several suspects; the FBI has said suspects come and go --
> they remain on the suspect list, which includes up to 20 at a time,
> until they are eliminated).
>
> The reality might be that they have several under 7/24 surveillance,
> and that may or may not include the right fellow. Question: for the
> purposes of electronic surveillance, are they proceeding under the
> authority for national security or for law enforcement? (Different
> standards apply).
>
> Dr. Alibek, the former Russian bioweaponeer, says he could make it
> (and has made lots of it in his time). He took a lie detector test
> along with others helping in the investigation. And Franz, of the US
> Army's Fort Detrick, says that while 5 died, the good news is that it
> has resulted in $6 billion in additional spending.
>
> The report, though not substantive, in the flavor of Franz' comment,
> provides indirect support for those seeing a financial motive. $6
> billion is a financial motive for a lot of folks.
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/anthrax_update020404.html
Maurice,
Yes, there are a lot of people scrambling to get a piece of that $6
billion. Here's one: http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/local/2988360.htm
But was money the motive for the attacks? That's really a different
question. I tend to think it wasn't money (entirely); I think it was
mostly concern over America's lack of preparedness for bioterrorism.
Money is now being spent, but it's an attempt to buy security and
preparedness.
TonyZ2001
wrote:
>The idea that al Qaeda was behind the >anthrax mailings is really absurd.
Really?
Two of the 9-11 Terrorists seek medical treatment for skin ailments consistant
with skin exposed to Anthrax, the first Anthrax death happens about a mile from
where they lived, they were seeking to rent Crop Duster planes.
This doesn't make alarm bells go of ?
If not you're clueless.
Tony
TonyZ2001
wrote:
Good points, anyone who doesn't see the clear link between Al Qeada and the
Anthrax attacks is clueless and probably praying that it is a right wing kook
for political reasons.
There is much proof of Al Qeada's links, none whatsoever of a right wing
connection yet some want to hope for it.
Tony
Maurice
it's a right wing kook now, for example, that we know the
sophistication of the anthrax used, one cannot so readily dismiss the
other principal non-Al Qaeda theories.
The main one concerns financial interest.
Who benefited? Lots.
1-BioPort was of course saved.
2-Any number of laid off bioweaponeers are facing radically different
prospects. 3-Some small companies involved in biodefense have greatly
benefited, (though charting the stocks doesn't lead to particularly
compelling evidence except for the first half of October.)
4-And as for Bayer, although they looked to make as much as selling
$600 million for Cipro, there's no there there.
So those who subscribe to the theory are usually thinking of a laid
off scientist. Personally, I think the suggestion is very weak, but
hey -- $6 billion is a lot of money and a lot of people have
benefited. (Much of the money will just go to construction of new
hospital and research facilities; a lot of money will go to academics
for vaccine research and testing).
A corollary of the financial motive theory is that the perp wanted to
draw attention to the perils of biowarfare. I don't find the motive
at all plausible but apparently some do.
The main difficulty with the financial interest theory is that while
most people are motivated by money, not many are sufficiently
motivated to engage in serial murder. While those suspects presumably
are not known to have committed murder, Ayman Zawahiri and Medhat
Morsi Omar (aka Abu Khabab) have. The latter fellow is in charge of
Al Qaeda's Weapons of Mass Destruction Program. For a description of
some of their efforts, the WSJ had an article about documents found on
Zawahiri's computer relating to the project code-named "Curdled Milk."
The theory getting all the attention, though (and has just fueled the
right wing kooks) is Dr. Rosenberg's theory that the FBI is covering
up and dragging their feet because it may involve the US biodefense
industry. Well, to quote the agent-in-charge in a television
interview, a Mr. Van Harp, that view is held by "uninformed
outsiders."
To be fair to that theory, though, Mr. Van Harp may just be saying
that they know who it is and will make an arrest when the science is
in -- that they are not foot-dragging. It may very well be the person
Dr. Rosenberg suspects. In the press, she was quoted as saying that
people in the government know scientists who have a common suspect.
(Big whoop: my mailman is a government source). The doctor, is
working with the Federation of American Scientists (That's a group
with the support and counsel of numerous Nobel Laureates). She is
opposed to the US being illegally engaged in the manufacturer of
bioweapons. (There is a vague exception to the production of product
for defense i.e., testing purposes).
In any event, there's no reason to doubt that the delay has been due
to the science as reported in a March 26 WSJ article (based on
information provided officially by the FBI investigation).
(The possibility that they know who it is may explain why they didn't
subpoena anthrax from the other labs until recently. Eventually, they
would have to do for a trial.)
(In addition to Ayman Zawahiri, a fellow who likely would be
complicitous under an Al Qaeda theory is Medhat (sometimes spelled
Midhat) Morsi (sometimes spelled Mersi) Omar. In one breath, that's
Medhat Morsi.
His alias is Abu Khabab. A chemical engineer, he ran the camp (by the
same name) that tested insecticide and nerve gas with a chemical
additive that increased absorption into the skin. He killed a bunch of
rabbits and dogs in his tests. And so when you see Atta looking to buy
a cropduster, don't think anthrax. Think the insecticide/nerve agent
that was the subject of tests at Abu Khabab.
Abu Khabab's 21-year-old son was arrested in Cairo two weeks ago and
the Egyptian Intelligence Services will likely welcome the opportunity
to visit with him. He says he's not related to his father's group and
was just off on his way to fight jihad.
http://www.muslims.net/english/news/2001-03/23/article8.shtml
I don't know offhand whether those hijackers who were trained at
Afghan camps were trained at Abu Khabab. But it's relevant to
considering whether the cropdusters were being considered as flying
fuel bombs or as a means of distributing chemical or biological
substances. (I doubt the insecticide/nerve agent tested by Abu Khabab
would require modification).
One footnote about Atta's meeting in Prague. The first paper to
report the story was the German Bild. Then that was translated in the
Times of London. The source supposedly was Israeli intelligence.
There are a number of opportunities for the story to have been
botched. As reported in Bild, there actually was a vial of anthrax
transferred. But perhaps someone who can read German should check to
see the original story in Bild to see if it was just mistranslated in
the Times of London (perhaps it was just suspected or surmised by the
source; the source, btw, turns out to be a biased intelligence agency.
(With Saddam paying a bounty to suicide bombers, Israeli intelligence
has ample motivation to get Saddam in trouble.)
Flyfish
@aol.com says...
> Good points, anyone who doesn't see the clear link between Al Qeada and the
> Anthrax attacks is clueless and probably praying that it is a right wing kook
> for political reasons.
>
> There is much proof of Al Qeada's links, none whatsoever of a right wing
> connection yet some want to hope for it.
>
> Tony
>
There is circumstantial evidence of Al Queda links, no positive proof.
It would not hold up in court.
I do not "hope" for a right wing connection, I hope for real proof of
where it really came from. Since we're already at war with Al Queda
there is no reason to rush to judgement.
Flyfish
Jean Guernon
possible, but the letters themselves lends to suspicion as well as the
timing and all these facts. But I too agree (not often) with Flyfish
that we can't draw conclusions about this attack until we find out for
sure.
We can surely be weary that others are possible given the facts below
though.
Thanks Maurice.
J.
Maurice a écrit :
>
> I agree with Flyfish on both suggestions: (1) the Al Qaeda evidence
> is circumstantial, and (2) it's significant that we're already at war
> with them (specifically, we may capture the planner of the operation
> if it was Al Qaeda.
>
> I've posted elsewhere the facts I think support an Al Qaeda theory --
> not Iraq -- (based on access to the US Army Ames strain), including
> Bin Laden's purchase of anthrax (at a minimum evidencing possession of
> anthrax), the positive test at Dr. Zawahiri's home, Dr. Zawahiri's
> list of 100 targets to use anthrax against, the positive test for
> anthrax at 5 labs, his hiring of Russian, Filipino (and other)
> scientists to work on anthrax, his "Curdled Milk" project, and his
> travels in the US with a US Army sergeant in 1991. Personally, my
> working theory is that the Ames strain was stolen from the US Army and
> then refined by Zawahiri's scientists.
>
> If you haven't already seen it, the US News had a major story
> explaining that
> the chemical process used was not one ever known to have been used in
> the US. There is also a notable story on the Newsweek/msnbc.com
> website.
>
> Best regards, "Maurice"
>
> In case I haven't posted my view of the underlying supporting evidence
> in these groups, here it is (with the links provided elsewhere)
>
> 1. Bin Laden purchased anthrax a few years ago. The best evidence
> relating to the purchase of anthrax would the court testimony in
> Egypt. See
> San Francisco Chronicle, October 21, 2001. It was purchased from
> North Korea. See Yousef Boudansky,"Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared
> War On America.", at 326. It was purchased through the Moro Front, an
> Indonesian radical group associated with Bin Laden. The Mirror;
> Egyptian Testimony.
>
> 2. Dr. Ayman Zawahiri's home in Kabul tested positive for anthrax.
> Zawahiri is the brains behind 9/11. Formerly the head of the Egyptian
> Islamic Jihad, he assumed the #2 position after Bin Laden upon a
> merger of some of EIJ into Al Qaeda a few years ago. Newsweek,
> December 9.
>
> Here is a quote from the Global Security Net summary of the Newsweek
> article:
> "Al-Qaeda: Anthrax Found in Al-Qaeda Home
> ***
> U.S. operatives in Afghanistan have also discovered evidence
> indicating that one or more Russian scientists were helping al-Qaeda
> develop
> anthrax..."
> I believe Newsweek characterized its intelligence source as "well
> placed."
>
> 3. 5 lab sites recently tested positive for anthrax.
>
> 4. If former Russian bioweaponeer Ken Alibek could make the product
> -- and it was exceedingly pure -- then there is little reason some
> other former Russian scientist could not have done the same.
>
> 5. Just because the process was special --perhaps using sequential
> filtering to achieve the high spore concentration rather than milling
> -- does not mean that Al Qaeda could not have gained access to the US
> Army recipe or developed a similar process on their own. William
> Patrick is not the only smart guy around.
>
> 6. Dr. Zawahiri had a list of 100 targets in the US and Israel to use
> it against. Source: San Francisco Chronicle, dated October 21, 2001;
> Egyptian trial testimony.
>
> 7. Leahy is head of the Senate appropriations panel in charge of aid
> to
> Egypt and Israel, which is the main beef of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad
> (and now al Qaeda). (That aid constitutes 42% of all foreign aid, I
> think, and so it's no small motivation). There's little reason to
> doubt that the head of the Senate appropriations panel in charge of
> aid to Egypt and Israel would be on his list.
>
> 8. The Kabul office of Pakistani scientist Sultan Bashiru-din Mehmood
> (see GSN, Nov. 28) also contained documents indicating an interest in
> anthrax (Newsweek, Dec. 9).
>
> 9. US-hating Mullahs oversaw the anthrax vaccine laboratory, much to
> the consternation of the scientist in charge of the lab. Source: New
> York Post; Murdoch's associated British tabloid.
>
> 10. Zawahiri travelled to the US in 1991 under an alias. He went to
> California, New York and DC. He was accompanied by a California
> pediatrician (a former classmate who denies knowing who Zawahiri was)
> and a former US Army sergeant, Ali Mohamed. He may have returned in
> 1995, but the testimony is conflicting. The testimony may be online
> at Cryptome.
>
> 11. Mohamed, the former US Army sergeant, plead guilty to the 1998
> embassy bombings and is in a Manhattan jail. Before working for the
> US Army (and perhaps CIA), he was with the Egyptian Army. He also was
> in the Egyptian Islamic Jihad. (He was in Cairo in 1980; during that
> period Zawahiri travelled between Afghanistan and Cairo recruiting.)
>
> 12. In the US, Zawahiri, the California pediatrician, the
> pediatrician's brother (a pharmacist from New Jersey who worked at the
> time in NYC), and Ali visited mosques in California, New York and DC
> raising funds. Zawahiri purported to represent the Red Crescent (he
> first went to Afghanistan in their employ in 1979). The California
> pediatrician, a respected member of the community, has been quoted in
> a newspaper article available online denying knowing who Zawahiri was.
> He was a good friend of Mohamed.
>
> 13. In 1992, Zawahiri went to Baghdad. Source: recent New Yorker
> article.
>
> 14. In 1998, Zawahiri went to Bagdad. Recent Christian Science
> Monitor article? (I'm not sure of the source but am sure of the date
> represented in the article).
>
> 15. In 1998 or so, Zawahiri created some computer documents
> describing his project code-named "Curdled Milk." Apparently involved
> a pesticide/nerve agent that used a chemical to increase absorption.
> (Note the use of insecticide in the chemical processing now understood
> to be used).
> Tested on rabbits and dogs. Many other documents on the computer had
> not yet been decoded. Source: Wall Street Journal and kudos to them
> for the great reporting and remarkable discovery; they bought the
> computer at a marketplace where a looter had sold it to the dealer).
> Was the liquid smuggled from Iraq to Afghanistan in the refrigerator
> motors this nerve agent? (See recent Christian Science Monitor
> article).
>
> 16. Zawahiri was assisted by Medhat Morsin Omar (alias Abu Khabab).
> An Egyptian chemical engineer, he ran the camp named Abu Khabob.
> Whereabouts apparently still unknown. He was in charge of Al Qaedas
> program of Weapons of Mass Destruction.
>
> 17. Al Qaeda hired scientists to work in their program. See details
> at Boudansky, page 326. They tried to hire scientists who were "clean"
> of terrorist connections.
>
> 18. Abu Khabab's 21 year old son was arrested about March 20, 2002 in
> Cairo. Had a very similar name so the report would be easily found
> in google. The son said he had no ties to his father or father's work,
> and that he was just headed to fight in the jihad in Chechnya. To
> borrow Rumsfeld's phrasing, no doubt Egyptian Intelligence appreciates
> the opportunity to visit with the fellow. (They captured and
> extradited Zawahiri's brother Mohamed in 2000, though I think they
> deny they have him.) See communique from islamists published in
> appendix of some book at Borders.
>
> 19. Ft. Detrick sent its Ames strain to places like Porton Down in
> Great Britain and Suffield in Canada. (The FBI is interviewing British
> scientists now according to a recent report in London). We can
> reasonably assume, though, that Ft. Detrick did not send it to North
> Korea. But presently, there is no information in the public record as
> to the strain that Bin Laden purchased in 1997. Informed analysis
> would require that at least that much be determined.
>
> 20. Dr. Keim's genetic analysis -- a scientist from someplace like
> Northern Arizona -- had promised to remove all doubt potentially as to
> the
> source of the anthrax. Now hopes may be fading according to
> yesterday's US News and Newsweek/msnbc.com reports.
>
> 21. Working on the assumption that the anthrax purchased from North
> Korea was not Ames -- but was perhaps Vollum 1B or some other strain
> -- then the question relevant to an Al Qaeda theory is what access to
> the US Army strain might have been accomplished by someone with 1) a
> multi millionaire (Bin Laden) backing his play, and 2) a lot of
> Muslims who believe in his Islamist cause (toppling the Egyptian and
> Saudi regimes).
>
> 22. With Hanssen, the senior FBI agent, we saw what could be
> accomplished with some money.
>
> 23. Assaad, the Egyptian scientist at Ft. Detrick, is not even
> Muslim. (He's Christian). But the letter sent about him in early
> October was not an attempt to frame him. It was just an attempt to
> provide the FBI with information. The fact that it may have been sent
> by someone who was embittered by some litigation is not particularly
> relevant. Dr. Assaad, in fact, was worth a quick look-see -- the
> letter admittedly was a bit premature unless he was in a position to
> already know of the anthrax mailings in late September (as he may have
> being an insider). (But in any event, it was understandable just
> based on all the press anthrax had got in late September. There is
> zero reason to think the fellow who wrote the letter about Assaad is
> the perp; that would be insanely reckless to create a trail leading
> directly to him. There's no good reason to think the letter was
> anonymous in any event ; the FBI would have no reason to tell Dr.
> Assaad or his counsel who wrote it (and every reason, even obligation,
> to protect the confidence.)
>
> 24. The FBI profile seems right on the mark, and permits a variety of
> motivations, including sympathy with the Islamist cause. See the
> Amerithrax webpage for the profile.
>
> 25. No convincing connection between anthrax and the 19 hijackers has
> been found, but the FBI is closely following developments in
> Afghanistan relating to Al Qaeda.
> Source: USA Today interactive chat with agent-in-charge Van Harp.
>
> 26. And so no reliance is placed on cropdusters or on Ahmed's leg
> lesion. Personally, I think the cropdusters related to the nerve
> agent, which wouldn't have required modification. (Others reasonably
> suggest it related to use as a flying fuel bomb). But I think they
> just ran out of pilots -- between Zacarias M's arrest and Ramzi's
> inability to get into the country (Ramzi was Atta's former roommate in
> Germany).
>
> 27. Nor is any reliance placed on the meetings Atta had in Prague
> with Iraqi agents. The report was first in the German newspaper Bild.
> Then in the Times of London. But Bild sources it to Israeli
> intelligence, a biased source. There seems definitely to have been
> the meetings though. It's just the reported transfer of a vial of
> anthrax that seems totally unproven -- if for no reason other than the
> biased source. If someone who spoke German read the original Bild
> article that would help. Maybe Israeli intelligence just surmised it,
> rather than observed it (seems like it would be a pretty hard thing to
> observe).
>
> 28. The fellow in charge of the investigation, Agent Van Harp, has
> said that the speculation about foot-dragging has no basis. As
> explained in a WSJ, dated March 26, based on information provided by
> the FBI, the reason for the delay has related to the many scientific,
> safety and security issues implicated. He emphatically denied the
> suggestion that it was a CIA experiment gone awry. See Dr.
> Rosenberg's interview with the BBC.
>
> If we're not going to credit Israeli intelligence on the transfer of
> the vial, perhaps we should give the FBI a break and not credit the
> speculation of an outsider observer raising a cover-up theory. We
> really should try to be on the same side in all of this, to the extent
> we can.
>
> Overall Conclusion: there simply is no basis for an outsider to
> dismiss the Al Qaeda theory. If the FBI hasn't dismissed it (see
> interactive chat with Van Harp on the USA Today page), then us folks
> with far less information should not do so either. Until told
> otherwise, the FBI's profile (supplemented by Van Harp's comments) is
> the best information we outside observers have. Now, as I understand
> the recent reports, we know: (1) the original source of the strain was
> the US Army Ames strain, (2) it was treated by chemical processes not
> known to have ever been used in the US, (3) William Patrick's secret
> patented process was not used (as originally had been surmised before
> the most recent analysis).
>
> I welcome corrections (and will include them in any repost in a
> different group).
TonyZ2001
wrote:
>, tonyz2001
>@aol.com says...
>> Good points, anyone who doesn't see the clear link between Al Qeada and the
>> Anthrax attacks is clueless and probably praying that it is a right wing
>kook
>> for political reasons.
>>
>> There is much proof of Al Qeada's links, none whatsoever of a right wing
>> connection yet some want to hope for it.
>>
>> Tony
>There is circumstantial evidence of Al >Queda links, no positive proof.
>It would not hold up in court.
Court? Is war waged in Court?
>I do not "hope" for a right wing connection, I hope for real proof of
>where it really came from. Since we're already at war with Al Queda
>there is no reason to rush to judgement.
>
>Flyfish
But you and others have implicated right wing groups WITHOUT any evidence.
Tony
Ed Lake
Tony,
All those guys were DEAD at the time of the anthrax mailings. Are you saying it
was some invisible associate who wasn't found during the massive FBI manhunt for
anyone connected to the 9-11 attack? What evidence do you have that there was such
an associate - other than your belief that there MUST have been one or your theory
is crap?
The anthrax in the first mailing to the media was less refined than the anthrax in
the mailing to the Senators three weeks later. Did this invisible al Qaeda member
have two different supplies of anthrax? Why? Why delay for three weeks?
The reason there were two different refinements of anthrax and a three-week delay
between the mailings was because the American scientist sent the first batch
quickly to get the mailing as close as possible to the 9-11 events, then he spent
the next three weeks GROWING MORE ANTHRAX and refining it for the second mailing.
Do you think some al Qaeda member was refining anthrax during those three weeks in
a bathtub in some basement in Trenton, and doing a better job of refining it than
anyone has ever seen before?
I repeat: Your al Qaeda theory is absurd.
Yes, they were looking into crop dusters, but NOT for anthrax. They were also
looking into getting licenses to haul dangerous chemicals. Experts have repeatedly
stated that it would be ineffective to try to disperse anthrax via a crop duster.
But they would work great for dispersing dangerous chemicals.
No one is saying that al Qaeda wasn't looking into using anthrax somewhere. But
there is NO evidence that they were behind the anthrax attacks. ALL the evidence
says it was a domestic terrorist - a very skilled scientist.
Ed Lake
Tony,
Right wing groups? What right wing groups? I'm not aware of anyone blaming any
right wing groups. The letters were sent by some American scientist who wanted to
awaken American to the dangers of bio-terrorism. That probably makes him
right-of-center, but that doesn't mean he was part of some massive conspiracy
involving some right wing group.
Or are you saying that we should blame foreigners regardless of who did it?
Ed Lake
> I agree with Flyfish on both suggestions: (1) the Al Qaeda evidence
> is circumstantial, and (2) it's significant that we're already at war
> with them (specifically, we may capture the planner of the operation
> if it was Al Qaeda.
>
> I've posted elsewhere the facts I think support an Al Qaeda theory --
> not Iraq -- (based on access to the US Army Ames strain), including
> Bin Laden's purchase of anthrax (at a minimum evidencing possession of
> anthrax), the positive test at Dr. Zawahiri's home, Dr. Zawahiri's
> list of 100 targets to use anthrax against, the positive test for
> anthrax at 5 labs, his hiring of Russian, Filipino (and other)
> scientists to work on anthrax, his "Curdled Milk" project, and his
> travels in the US with a US Army sergeant in 1991. Personally, my
> working theory is that the Ames strain was stolen from the US Army and
> then refined by Zawahiri's scientists.
>
> If you haven't already seen it, the US News had a major story
> explaining that
> the chemical process used was not one ever known to have been used in
> the US. There is also a notable story on the Newsweek/msnbc.com
> website.
>
> Best regards, "Maurice"
Maurice,
The anthrax in the letter to Leahy was refined in a way no American
scientist has ever seen before. Does that mean it was done by Iraq or al
Qaeda? NO, it does not. All it means is that it was refined in a way
that no INTERVIEWED American scientist has ever seen before.
Most of the powdered germ experiments in American labs were stopped back
in the 1960s and 1970s. The experiments that have been done since then
are very minor. There has been a LOT of development in technology since
1972, so it should be of no surprise to anyone that some American
scientist could develop anthrax spores finer than was possible thirty
years ago.
And, since the spores in the September 18 letters were not that well
refined, it seems clear that the scientist sent those letters out in a
haste and then spent the next three weeks growing and super-refining more
spores for the October 9 mailing.
Or do you think that some super-smart al Qaeda member spent 3 weeks
refining the super-fine spores in some bathtub in a basement in New
Jersey?
TonyZ2001
wrote:
>TonyZ2001 wrote:
>> >Ed Lake det...@newsguy.com
>> wrote:
>> >The idea that al Qaeda was behind the >anthrax mailings is really absurd.
>>
>> Really?
>
>> Two of the 9-11 Terrorists seek medical treatment for skin ailments
>consistant
>> with skin exposed to Anthrax, the first Anthrax death happens about a mile
>from
>> where they lived, they were seeking to rent Crop Duster planes.
>>
>> This doesn't make alarm bells go of ?
>>
>> If not you're clueless.
>>
>> Tony
>
>Tony,
>
>All those guys were DEAD at the time of >the anthrax mailings. Are you saying
>it was some invisible associate who >wasn't found during the massive FBI
>manhunt for anyone connected to the >9-11 attack? What evidence do you have
>that there was such an associate - other >than your belief that there MUST
have >been one or your theory is crap?
Your reply shows that you are ignorant of the facts, facts like the government
has sais that there are hundreds, if not thousands of Al Aeada operatives still
no the loose in the USA, facts like there are several cities in New Jersey
which are hot beds of Islamic radical activity including Jersey City which is
probably the headquarters in the USA from which the first WTC bobminb was
planned and executed.
Want to go read up before you try to insult me again?
>The anthrax in the first mailing to the media was less refined than the
>anthrax in
>the mailing to the Senators three weeks later. Did this invisible al Qaeda
>member
>have two different supplies of anthrax?
Invisible? Laughable that you are ignorant of the facts yet want to try to
insult me.
And why is it so far fetched that there could be different supplies of Anthrax?
What better way to throw the authorites off.
> Why? Why delay for three weeks?
Why not? Also you ignore the fact that the first Anthrax victim was likely
infected in late August prior to 9-11, that was the one a mile or so from where
the hijackers lived in Fla.
>Do you think some al Qaeda member was refining anthrax during those three
>weeks in
>a bathtub in some basement in Trenton, and doing a better job of refining it
>than anyone has ever seen before?
The last sentence is proof that it was developed by a very high tech operation,
like the one run by Iraq.
>I repeat: Your al Qaeda theory is absurd.
No, you are ignorant of the facts.
>Yes, they were looking into crop dusters, >but NOT for anthrax.
And you know this how?
Experts have
>repeatedly stated that it would be >ineffective to try to disperse anthrax via
a >crop duster.
LOL!!!!!!
Please post this evidence. Iraq is known to have planned to use planes and
helicopters to disperse Anthrax.
Tony
Ed Lake
Tony,
Whether or not there are hundreds or thousands of al Qaeda operatives in the United
States had NOTHING to do with proving that they were behind the anthrax attacks.
You could have a million of them and it still wouldn't prove anything about the
anthrax case.
All the evidence says that an American scientist refined and mailed the anthrax.
There is NO evidence that it was done by al Qaeda. The fact that al Qaeda exists
is NOT proof that they did it.
>
> >The anthrax in the first mailing to the media was less refined than the
> >anthrax in
> >the mailing to the Senators three weeks later. Did this invisible al Qaeda
> >member
> >have two different supplies of anthrax?
>
> Invisible? Laughable that you are ignorant of the facts yet want to try to
> insult me.
>
> And why is it so far fetched that there could be different supplies of Anthrax?
> What better way to throw the authorites off.
>
That's called rationalizing. If they do something that al Qaeda wouldn't do, you
say it's because they wanted to throw the authorities off. Yet they use Islamic
phrases in the letters, the same handwriting and mail them from the same place?
You can dream up reasons for them to do things that al Qaeda would never do, but
that doesn't make it fact.
>
> > Why? Why delay for three weeks?
>
> Why not? Also you ignore the fact that the first Anthrax victim was likely
> infected in late August prior to 9-11, that was the one a mile or so from where
> the hijackers lived in Fla.
>
That's ridiculous. The letter to AMI in Boca Raton was undoubtedly sent as part of
the mailing from Trenton on September 18 - a week after the WTC attack. Bob
Stevens started to feel ill on September 30 and was confirmed to have anthrax on
October 4th. The other victim at AMI, Ernesto Blanco, was hospitalized on October
1st and confirmed to have anthrax on October 15. All the information is explained
in detail on the Kathy Nguyen page on my web site, and it was confirmed by the
Department of Epidemiology at UCLA.
>
> >Do you think some al Qaeda member was refining anthrax during those three
> >weeks in
> >a bathtub in some basement in Trenton, and doing a better job of refining it
> >than anyone has ever seen before?
>
> The last sentence is proof that it was developed by a very high tech operation,
> like the one run by Iraq.
>
> >I repeat: Your al Qaeda theory is absurd.
>
> No, you are ignorant of the facts.
>
> >Yes, they were looking into crop dusters, >but NOT for anthrax.
>
> And you know this how?
>
> Experts have
> >repeatedly stated that it would be >ineffective to try to disperse anthrax via
> a >crop duster.
>
> LOL!!!!!!
>
> Please post this evidence. Iraq is known to have planned to use planes and
> helicopters to disperse Anthrax.
>
> Tony
Well, I've got over a hundred links to newspaper articles on my page. At least one
of them says that anthrax sprayed from a crop duster would have to be spores too
large to be absorbed through the lungs. I just can't find it right now.
Crop dusters spray liquids, not powders. And the liquid droplets have to settle
onto the crops, they can't blow away in the wind. That means they have to spray
droplets large enough to fall to earth relatively quickly. Such droplets would
not be absorbed into the lungs. In order for anthrax to be absorbed into the
lungs, the spores have to be smaller than 5 microns in size. That's smaller than
moisture particles in fog. And fog doesn't settle, it floats away. And crop
dusters can't spray particles that small.