Time Bomb 2000
gwi...@northlink.com
The reality is found in the book Time Bomb at www.nordon.com
It seems pretty alarming since no retail outlet can accept my Visa charge
card that expires on 2/2000.
I am ready to pull ALL my money out of the bank and invest in GOLD!!
Please read and post your thoughts.
Concerned Citizen
gwiatt
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Tony9596
>gwi...@northlink.com wrote:
>I am ready to pull ALL my money out of the bank and invest in GOLD!!
Which lost about 15% of its value in 1997?
Tony
Psych714
It would be smarter to invest in tangible products and goods instead of gold-
because during a war, people tend to go towards the barter system- you can't
really use gold for much- but food, steel, gasoline, etc. are useful.
Ric
New Millennium
Psych714 wrote:
>
> It would be smarter to invest in tangible products and goods instead of gold-
> because during a war, people tend to go towards the barter system- you can't
> really use gold for much- but food, steel, gasoline, etc. are useful.
> Ric
Great point. Unless your local food supplier is going to be accepting
gold... and you already have it in usable weights (for currency), you
would be much better off buying and stocking up on goods and supplies
instead.
----------------------------------
See You in the Light, IAM,
Newmill
----------------------------------
Dan Thurman
Hey !
Sunday, 4 January 1998 09:01:31, speaking about
Time Bomb 2000 to
g> Organization: Deja News Posting Service Message-ID:
g> <883925586...@dejanews.com> Date: Sun, Sunday, 4 January
1998
g> 09:01:31 -0600 Subject: Time Bomb 2000 To:
g> From:
g> The reality is found in the book Time Bomb at www.nordon.com
g> It seems pretty alarming since no retail outlet can accept my
g> Visa charge card that expires on 2/2000.
g> I am ready to pull ALL my money out of the bank and invest in
g> GOLD!!
g> Please read and post your thoughts.
Some crash cash is always a good idea whether you ever need it
or not, but think junk silver. Dimes, quarters and the like. It
would be tough for the bakery to make change for a kugerrand.
Those are my thoughts anyway.
-=> Later on, Dan <=-
May the Good Lord take a like'n to ya, gwiatt
Dan Thurman - Home Sweet Oklahoma Sunday, 4 January 1998 at 16:13.
Fidonet : 1:170/302.15 - Internet : d...@gratisnet.com
.!. This video needs more explosions and close-ups of butts.
just mikee.®
Psych714 wrote:
>
> If the U.S. economy collapes, or any gov't for that matter, what is gold worth
> then? Certainly not a dollar value. The value of gold is so variable that I
> would not like to rely on it. If you were stuck in the middle of a nuclear
> holocust, wouldn't you rather have grain and water instead of gold? And
> furthermore, you can't make a gun our ammunition out of gold, it's too soft.
> So it's only value to me is as a shiny soft metal- if a huge scale war came
> about, I don't think others would feel differently.
> Ric
..............................................................
You've gotta quit thinking for yourself....
just kidding.
You make the best point, that short of food and water and energy, gold
will provide nothing.
Then there's the next problem: If you were smart enough to stock up on
food, water, etc.,, would you share?
Do you believe in God?
just mikee.®
Paul S.
In article <19980104213...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, psyc...@aol.com (Psych714) wrote:
>It would be smarter to invest in tangible products and goods instead of gold-
>because during a war, people tend to go towards the barter system- you can't
>really use gold for much- but food, steel, gasoline, etc. are useful.
>Ric
Gold is ALWAYS a valuable that can be traded.
+--------------------------------------------+
Paul S.
http://www.mindspring.com/~pscigliano/prophecy
+--------------------------------------------+
Psych714
If the U.S. economy collapes, or any gov't for that matter, what is gold worth
then? Certainly not a dollar value. The value of gold is so variable that I
would not like to rely on it. If you were stuck in the middle of a nuclear
holocust, wouldn't you rather have grain and water instead of gold? And
furthermore, you can't make a gun our ammunition out of gold, it's too soft.
So it's only value to me is as a shiny soft metal- if a huge scale war came
about, I don't think others would feel differently.
Ric
RONCRAFT
In article <68p8e0$e...@camel15.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
S.) writes:
>Gold is ALWAYS a valuable that can be traded.
Up to a point, You can't eat gold, and it's too soft to fabricate into tools
and farm implements.
ron
RONCRAFT
>
Then there's the next problem: If you were smart enough to stock up on
food,
>water, etc.,, would you share?
Do you believe in God?
Remember the parable about giving someone a fish, you gave him a meal, but
teach him how to fish, and you've fed him for a lifetime? I think the same
principle applies. And who does God help? :-)
ron
*DrPostman
ronc...@aol.com (RONCRAFT) wrote:
I am the last thing from being a gun nut but if society breaks down
weapons will be the most valuable commodity available, IMHO.
--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
High Counselor of the New Usenet Order
Addicted to Art Bell? http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1282
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, Lifetime member of the
Art Bell Internet Fan Club, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: jamiemps(at)mindspring.com
"I am inclined to exaggeration" a direct quote from Dr Turi's web site
--
Tony9596
>thispar...@mindspring.com (*DrPostman) wrote:
>I am the last thing from being a gun nut but if society breaks down
>weapons will be the most valuable commodity available, IMHO.
Dr. P,
So that would mean after this collapse takes place, that the richest, most
influential people (outside of the military) would be the street gangs.
Tony
Dan Thurman
Hey !
Sunday, 4 January 1998 16:48:34, GATE170 speaking about
Re: Time Bomb 2000 to All
n> Organization: Concentric Internet Services Message-ID:
n> <34B003B2...@concentric.net> Date: Sun, Sunday, 4 January
1998
n> 16:48:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Time Bomb 2000 From: New Millennium
n> <GATE170>
n> Psych714 wrote:
>> It would be smarter to invest in tangible products and goods
>> instead of gold-because during a war, people tend to go towards the
>> barter system- you can't really use gold for much- but food, steel,
>> gasoline, etc. are useful. Ric
n> Great point. Unless your local food supplier is going to be
n> accepting gold... and you already have it in usable weights (for
n> currency), you would be much better off buying and stocking up on
n> goods and supplies instead.
Yes a fine point, to a point. You can not stock up for any real
extended amount of time unless you're also prepared to sit on
top of it fending off the unprepared. several months supply of
nonparishables wouldn't be a bad idea though for sure.
The dollar value of an ounce of gold buys 100 ozs of silver.
-=> Later on, Dan <=-
If your not living in Oklahoma GATE170, you're just camping out !
Dan Thurman - Home Sweet Oklahoma Monday, 5 January 1998 at 6:22.
Fidonet : 1:170/302.15 - Internet : d...@gratisnet.com
.!. I'm not a witch doctor-- I'm only a folk medic.
Paul S.
In article <19980105013...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, psyc...@aol.com (Psych714) wrote:
>If the U.S. economy collapes, or any gov't for that matter, what is gold worth
>then? Certainly not a dollar value. The value of gold is so variable that I
>would not like to rely on it. If you were stuck in the middle of a nuclear
>holocust, wouldn't you rather have grain and water instead of gold? And
>furthermore, you can't make a gun our ammunition out of gold, it's too soft.
>So it's only value to me is as a shiny soft metal- if a huge scale war came
>about, I don't think others would feel differently.
>Ric
Historically speaking, gold has always been worth something. Whether you
fashion it into coins or necklaces, people throughout the ages have always
used gold for trading.
We are not talking about market values, we are talking about human
perception. Gold would represent a replacement currency for the dollar or
whatever the situation is.
The problem with barter economies (and the reason why they don't work very
well in a large-scale) is that it becomes hard to measure wealth. Say that
you have grain and I have rabbits. How many rabbits do I give you for grain?
What if I give you rabbits for grain and then you breed my rabbits and
suddenly you don't want to trade rabbits for grain anymore because you bred
your own rabbits? What do I do then? If I give 2 rabbits to everyone that I
trade with, eventually everyone will have rabbits and my rabbits will be
worthless for trading. What do I do then? Do I go around killing everyone's
rabbits so that mine are worth more?
That same scenario multiplies throughout with just about any commodity.
Instead of rabbits, you can use tobacco. Instead of grain, you can use
batteries (which present a whole slew of new problems).
It's easy to say "Oh, we'll just barter" but when you sit down and think about
it for a second, it becomes a different scenario.
So... what about gold? Gold provides a standard for exchange. My rabbits are
worth a certain amount of gold. When people buy my rabbits, I charge them
gold. I can take that gold and buy other things, such as grain. Even if the
people that have grain have rabbits, I can still buy grain because I have
gold. The amount of gold someone has also is a good measure of their wealth.
I can take that gold and use it to buy lumber from someone that might
otherwise not trade with me because he doesn't need rabbits.
>pscig...@mindsprind.com (Paul S.) wrote:
>>In article <19980104213...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, psyc...@aol.com
>>(Psych714) wrote:
>>>It would be smarter to invest in tangible products and goods instead of
>>gold-
>>>because during a war, people tend to go towards the barter system- you can't
>>>really use gold for much- but food, steel, gasoline, etc. are useful.
>>>Ric
>>
>>Gold is ALWAYS a valuable that can be traded.
+--------------------------------------------+
Paul S.
>You make the best point, that short of food and water and energy, gold
>will provide nothing.
That's not true. People are always suckers for shiny metals. It drove the
conquistadores into south america, it drove the miners in 1849 to California,
and it would drive people in a collapsed economy.
Paul S.
>Up to a point, You can't eat gold, and it's too soft to fabricate into tools
>and farm implements.
You can't eat a dollar bill either, but you can buy food with it.
I am saying that if an economy collapses, the value of certain metals would
not. Gold is one of them. Silver is another. A barter economy would not
last very long. We are not talking about trappers and furrers in the American
woods in the late 1700s. We are talking about 10 million people in a
metropolitan area the size of NYC if such a collapse would happen (which is
extremely unlikely given the scenario presented).
What if I am Joe Blow with my 9-5 job and suddenly my money isn't worth
anything anymore? I still have to eat. After I use up my food I'm going to
have to figure out a way to get more food. What am I going to do, go down to
the grocer and trade him my couch for a turkey? What if he already did this
for 10 people? The grocer has now 10 couches and a food supply that may not
be replenished anytime soon.
Gold is a FALLBACK currency and I do believe that given the scenario presented
that gold (or anything precious for that matter) would be used as a
substitute currency.
>ron
Paul S.
>I am the last thing from being a gun nut but if society breaks down
>weapons will be the most valuable commodity available, IMHO.
Sure, till you run out of ammo or cleaning fluid.
New Millennium
Paul S. wrote:
> Gold is a FALLBACK currency and I do believe that given the scenario presented
> that gold (or anything precious for that matter) would be used as a
> substitute currency.
Still seems it won't do much good in the event of a disaster or event
that shuts everything down. It would only protect your assets from a
strictly economic collapse to some degree. I understand your wanting
something that will still be worth something to you... but I still don't
see how you would be able to actually use it since no stores would be
set up to accept gold as currency.
If people are actually starving (or threatened with it) and panicking, I
do not think too many of them are going to sell what little they have
for any amount of gold or silver. If the stores would be able and
willing to accept gold... do you think that the people without any (and
whose families face starvation) are going to sit by quietly while you
walk into the store with your gold to buy food?
IMO, by the time you get there with it, the stores will have been looted
clean.
New Millennium
Paul S. wrote:
> That's not true. People are always suckers for shiny metals. It drove the
> conquistadores into south america, it drove the miners in 1849 to California,
> and it would drive people in a collapsed economy.
I thought we were talking about in the event of a 2K meltdown, which
would be quite a lot different than just a collapsed economy. If you are
referring simply to a financial collapse/depression, than yes gold would
be useful.
If you are talking about an event that could shut everything down (like
an EMF pulse) then the gold or silver would be as useless as the paper
money would be. The Conquistadors and Miner 49ers were not facing the
possible starvation of their families in our modern and totally
supply-dependent society; they didn't buy their groceries at Winn-Dixie
or have a suburban family of five that needed food immediately.
RONCRAFT
In article <68r8ra$3...@camel15.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
S.) writes:
>So... what about gold? Gold provides a standard for exchange. My rabbits
>are
worth a certain amount of gold. When people buy my rabbits, I charge
>them
gold. I can take that gold and buy other things, such as grain. Even
>if the
people that have grain have rabbits, I can still buy grain because I
>have
gold. The amount of gold someone has also is a good measure of their
>wealth.
I can take that gold and use it to buy lumber from someone that
>might
otherwise not trade with me because he doesn't need rabbits.
Paul, if the cataclysms do in fact occur, we'll be reverting to earth centered
societies, such as native american tribal societies, aboriginal societies or
--- kibbutzes. Individual weath won't mean much, it'll be a case of each
contributing according to his own abilities. We won't be buying lumber, we'll
be harvesting it.
ron
RONCRAFT
In article <68r9aa$3...@camel15.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
S.) writes:
>What am I going to do, go down to
the grocer and trade him my couch for a
>turkey? What if he already did this
for 10 people? The grocer has now 10
>couches and a food supply that may not
be replenished anytime soon.
Paul, you don't understand. There's no more infrastructure, no more
distribution system, no place for the grocer to get turkeys. You want a
turkey, you hunt it or trap it, just like the native americans did.
ron
Paul S.
>something that will still be worth something to you... but I still don't
>see how you would be able to actually use it since no stores would be
>set up to accept gold as currency.
Well, the change could not be instantaneous. I would hazard that it would
take some months, after a panic ceases, to get word around that a new currency
would be gold.
>willing to accept gold... do you think that the people without any (and
>whose families face starvation) are going to sit by quietly while you
>walk into the store with your gold to buy food?
Of course not. They are probably going to rob me.
>IMO, by the time you get there with it, the stores will have been looted
>clean.
Yup.
>----------------------------------
> See You in the Light, IAM,
> Newmill
>----------------------------------
+--------------------------------------------+
Paul S.
>Paul, if the cataclysms do in fact occur, we'll be reverting to earth centered
>societies, such as native american tribal societies, aboriginal societies or
>--- kibbutzes. Individual weath won't mean much, it'll be a case of each
>contributing according to his own abilities. We won't be buying lumber, we'll
>be harvesting it.
Well, not necessarily. The change from an industrial society (which we are
in now) to one that is "earth-centered" (agrarian) would be extremely tough.
Just take Atlanta for example. We have 3 million people. How do you explain
to 3 million people that they have to grow their own supplies? Not everyone
has houses with lots. Many people live in apartments. What about them?
What about income? What's to prevent landowners from displacing people with
outstanding debts (mortgages) and telling them to take a hike while the
landowner keeps the house lot and uses it to grow food for himself? It would
be his right, after all.
Of course, many would say "move to the countryside". Ok. Let's say that
happens. You are going to eventually get, sooner or later, squatters on
someone else's property. You're going to get someone that decides they are
going to take a corner of someone's farm and live there. How do you
compensate the guy on whose land you are squatting? What's to prevent him
from forcibly removing you from his property?
Fact to the matter is that an "earth-centered" society would not happen
overnight nor even within a lifetime. It would take several generations to
achieve something like that and ultimately the goal would be to move back to
an industrial society. That is the tendency of man.
>ron
Paul S.
>Paul, you don't understand. There's no more infrastructure, no more
>distribution system, no place for the grocer to get turkeys. You want a
>turkey, you hunt it or trap it, just like the native americans did.
FROM WHERE? Where do I, an ordinary Joe who lives in the middle of downtown,
say Brooklyn, go and hunt a turkey?
You guys are REALLY not thinking this through. You can't just wave a magic
wand and expect people to suddenly know where to go and get food when all they
have ever done is gone to the grocery.
What you would eventually get is people trading with people that are skilled
at hunting. So I would go and trade with a trapper who knows where to get the
turkey and in turn I have to give him a valuable commodity, whether it be
whisky or gasoline or whatever valuable I can get my hands on. And
eventually, I would bet 100 dollars, the trappers would begin accepting gold
as a currency substitute. It has happened all throughout history and there is
no reason why it wouldn't happen again.
John Fisher
Tony9596 <tony...@aol.com> wrote in article <19980105140...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >thispar...@mindspring.com (*DrPostman) wrote:
> >I am the last thing from being a gun nut but if society breaks down
> >weapons will be the most valuable commodity available, IMHO.
> So that would mean after this collapse takes place, that the richest, most
> influential people (outside of the military) would be the street gangs.
>
> Tony
case of major upheaval of any society, food and defense (survival of the fittest) will
be more important than buying power. Gold or silver stockpiles will be mostly
irrelevant when it's unnecessary (supply and demand). Unfortunately the greedy will
survive alongside the needy and until the will to subjogate one by the other disappears, the law of survival of the
fittest will prevail. I plan on stocking up on canned goods and more importantly, non-electric can openers.
--
Stop! Now what's that sound, everybody look whats goin down......
John
*DrPostman
tony...@aol.com (Tony9596) wrote:
>>thispar...@mindspring.com (*DrPostman) wrote:
>
>>I am the last thing from being a gun nut but if society breaks down
>>weapons will be the most valuable commodity available, IMHO.
>
>Dr. P,
>
>So that would mean after this collapse takes place, that the richest, most
>influential people (outside of the military) would be the street gangs.
>
>Tony
In the cities - more than likely. In the countryside there are those
survivalist who have established hold outs who are waiting for the
day to exercise their power.
*DrPostman
pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul S.) wrote:
>In article <34b59f32...@news.mindspring.com>, thispar...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
>>I am the last thing from being a gun nut but if society breaks down
>>weapons will be the most valuable commodity available, IMHO.
>
>Sure, till you run out of ammo or cleaning fluid
By saying weapons I mean to include supplies such as
ammo and other essentials. Bullets could become like
coins - lots of gun nuts can make their own. Survivalist
have lots of different weapons such as bows and slings
as well. The Golden rule would be - He who has the weapons
can take the gold and rule.
Sandy Kear
>as well. The Golden rule would be - He who has the weapons
>can take the gold and rule.
Only until he falls asleep .... at which point a rock is sufficient weaponry
against him.
Sandy
wind
>In article <19980105200...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>ronc...@aol.com (RONCRAFT) wrote:
>
> >Paul, you don't understand. There's no more infrastructure, no more
> >distribution system, no place for the grocer to get turkeys. You want a
> >turkey, you hunt it or trap it, just like the native americans did.
>
In which Paul S. replied:
> FROM WHERE? Where do I, an ordinary Joe who lives in the middle of downtown,
> say Brooklyn, go and hunt a turkey?
>
> You guys are REALLY not thinking this through. You can't just wave a magic
> wand and expect people to suddenly know where to go and get food when all they
> have ever done is gone to the grocery.
>
> What you would eventually get is people trading with people that are skilled
> at hunting. So I would go and trade with a trapper who knows where to get the
> turkey and in turn I have to give him a valuable commodity, whether it be
> whisky or gasoline or whatever valuable I can get my hands on. And
> eventually, I would bet 100 dollars, the trappers would begin accepting gold
> as a currency substitute. It has happened all throughout history and there is
> no reason why it wouldn't happen again.
>
>
> +--------------------------------------------+
> Paul S.
> http://www.mindspring.com/~pscigliano/prophecy
> +--------------------------------------------+
Well Paul, IMHO I believe that you are the one who is not really
thinking this out... I agree with what you said about bartering....
But if the Natural Disasters and/or Nukes hit the Earth like some of us
believe (Armageddon), then gold really will not be worth anything except
maybe to use as a weight for fishing nets...
I think you are imagining that our Earth will be more advanced than it
was during, lets say, the stone age.... If any of the various scenarios
come to pass, as I firmly believe that they will, then those that are
left on Earth will have to struggle to merely survive. We will ALL have
to learn to hunt and gather for our food as well as how to build a
structure of some type of shelter ... There are not many folks out
there who really know how to live off the land, and for right now, I
have to unfortunately include myself in this group... The Natives have
realized for quite some time now, that they need to get back to the
teachings of their Nations, which involves living off the land.... You
say you will go to someone who knows how to trap an animal, and in
return you will give him/her something in return. Well, if these
Disasters strike in a flash, there might not be a trapper, or fisherman,
or medicine man, or a knowledgable person in the immediate area who
knows how to build a shelter, how to kill an animal for clothing and
meat etc... it might take a while for people to learn how to do these
things... Then, perhaps, you can trade and barter... But what does one
do before we all learn these skills by way of experience?
Many people say, when I discuss this, is that I am not relying on God
enough. Many believe that God will either Rapture them prior to the
Disasters to come, or that God will provide Manna or something of that
Nature to those who are left behind for whatever reason/purpose. Well,
I do not want to get into a discussion about Pre,Post, or Mid Rapture.
Let the alt.bible.prophecies groups discuss that.... However, I totally
believe in the old saying, "God helps those who help themselves". I
guess what I am talking about is being prepared both physically as well
as spiritually.... physically by having shelter, means to grow your own
food, plenty of water, food stored in cans, etc..... I have a bow and
know how to use it.... so I will have a way to provide myself with meat,
IF it is not tainted with radiation.... Naturally this won't mean
anything, if the entire planet is nuked and fallout hits every square
inch on earth... But I still beleive that we should be prepared. And,
I believe that we are should be spiritually prepared as well, so we can
ask God to aid us, in our time of need.
Anyway, I hope you take this reply, Paul, in the spirit that it was
written. I am not mocking your beliefs... I just wanted to put my 2
cents worth in...... :) I read your posts and know that you contribute
greatly to this newsgroup.
Wind
--
|------------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.hom.net/~wind |
| 000 |
| Life is like a 00 . 00 |
| Medicine Wheel. 0 . . . 0 |
| Everything is 00 . 00 Life is a Mystery. |
| Connected... 000 Mystery is Life... |
| | | | Wind |
| " | " |
| " |
|------------------------------------------------------|
M. Nostradamus
Those that can feed themselves and who live far enough from centers of
chaos will survive.
Small villages where livestock and food is grown.
Canned goods don't last forever.
Modern man has forgotten how to feed themselves.
The survivors will be self dependent and far from cities.
If a self reliant village is too close to a city, it will be ransacked
by fools wanting to feed NOW.
The key to surviving is to have plenty of can goods and the KNOWLEDGE
and means to start up a viable self reliant village.
Believe it or not.
This is the exact type of situation Sollog who most hate here is
advising man to do.
Leave the cities and become self dependant FAR FROM the chaos.
You have seen his HITS recently.
7.0 quake near Pentacost
Death of a Kennedy
The Times Square building on the 7th day of Hanukkah.
Funny how that PROPHET is MOCKED.
Some things never change.
Leave the cities, and PREPARE.
Otherwise, get a big gun and learn to HUNT other HUMANS.
That's the FUTURE
*DrPostman
sa...@roundthebend.com (Sandy Kear) wrote:
Which is why those birds of a feather flock together - to watch each
others backs. Did you ever see the movie "Tremors"? If they can find
someone willing to breed with them I imagine that would be a prime
example of what a survivalist family would look like - paranoid freaks
Jean Guernon
A new one to add to the killfile?! I'm still waiting for that Mr. God
nick...
J.
Jsgebo
>Well, not necessarily. The change from an industrial society (which we are
>in now) to one that is "earth-centered" (agrarian) would be extremely tough.
>
>Just take Atlanta for example. We have 3 million people. How do you explain
>
>to 3 million people that they have to grow their own supplies? Not everyone
>has houses with lots. Many people live in apartments. What about them?
These people would die, plain and simple. Panic, rioting, looting, and then
starvation would wipe them out. Paul, I think the point everyone is trying to
make to you is that if society as we knew it ended then no currency, including
gold would have any value. With the food supply cut and 99% of today's society
helpless on their own in nature (including downtown Atlanta) the only
"currency" would be clean water, food, and some kind of weapon to defend it.
Try going 48 hours without eating or drinking anything. It sucks! Now do this
for a week or two in a society where you are on your own. Gold would mean
nothing to you. You would kill for water and food. Starvation does that to
people.
>What about income? What's to prevent landowners from displacing people with
>outstanding debts (mortgages) and telling them to take a hike while the
>landowner keeps the house lot and uses it to grow food for himself? It would
>
>be his right, after all.
Again, if society experienced a major upheavel how would one landowner force
all his tenants to leave or comply with his wishes? It would be survival of
the fittest (or best armed).
RONCRAFT
In article <68rgc1$s...@camel19.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
S.) writes:
>Well, not necessarily. The change from an industrial society (which we are
>
in now) to one that is "earth-centered" (agrarian) would be extremely tough.
>
Just take Atlanta for example. We have 3 million people. How do you
>explain
to 3 million people that they have to grow their own supplies? Not
>everyone
has houses with lots. Many people live in apartments. What about
>them?
Paul, maybe we're looking at different scenarios here. if we assume a global
cataclysm, there won't be 3 million people in Atlanta, and maybe not more than
that left on the planet. Your agurments are good, and would be perfectly
valid in the event of social and economic collapse, but IMO we're looking at a
scenario in which cataclysm will take care of the population excess.
ron
Alex
Something else to think about is that not only humans are affected by a global war,
also the animals are suffering and dying. Nuclear, chemical and biologigal agents
are designed to kill all liveforms not only humans. I don't know how it is going to
be in USA but in Europe there will be not much left. Maybe you can buy a rat on a
stick from your gold if you are lucky but nothing more.
Alex
Dan Thurman
Hey Ron!
Tuesday, 6 January 1998 05:29:51, GATE170 speaking about Re:
Time Bomb 2000 to All
r> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID:
r> <19980106052...@ladder01.news.aol.com> Date: Tuesday, 6
r> January 1998 05:29:51 GMT Subject: Re: Time Bomb 2000 From:
r> GATE170 (RONCRAFT)
r> In article <68rgc1$s...@camel19.mindspring.com>,
r> pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul S.) writes:
r> >Well, not necessarily. The change from an industrial society
r> (which we are > in now) to one that is "earth-centered" (agrarian)
r> would be extremely tough. > Just take Atlanta for example. We have
3
r> million people. How do you >explain to 3 million people that they
r> have to grow their own supplies? Not >everyone has houses with
lots.
r> Many people live in apartments. What about >them?
r> Paul, maybe we're looking at different scenarios here. if we
r> assume a global cataclysm, there won't be 3 million people in
r> Atlanta, and maybe not more than that left on the planet. Your
r> agurments are good, and would be perfectly valid in the event of
r> social and economic collapse, but IMO we're looking at a scenario
in
r> which cataclysm will take care of the population excess.
With that sennario, modern man being what he is, I'd expect we'd
be back in caves within two generations.
And the wheel begins another revolution.
-=> Later on, Dan <=-
Live and direct from the Indian Nations
Dan Thurman - Home Sweet Oklahoma Tuesday, 6 January 1998 at 12:50.
Fidonet : 1:170/302.15 - Internet : d...@gratisnet.com
.!. Behead a Lawyer for Allah!
abvhiael stuart
On Mon, 05 Jan 1998 08:53:02 GMT, thispar...@mindspring.com
(*DrPostman) wrote:
>ronc...@aol.com (RONCRAFT) wrote:
>
>>In article <68p8e0$e...@camel15.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
>>S.) writes:
>>
>>>Gold is ALWAYS a valuable that can be traded.
>>
>>Up to a point, You can't eat gold, and it's too soft to fabricate into tools
>>and farm implements.
>>
>>ron
>
>I am the last thing from being a gun nut but if society breaks down
>weapons will be the most valuable commodity available, IMHO.
eerie....i was only perusing my copy of the book of the subgenius <a
rogue industrial religion> this morning when i came across the
following:
IN CASE OF HOLOCAUST
First, be prepared before it happens. When hoarding, remember that
bullets will be a lot more important than food, in that you can use
bullets to obtain food in almost any disaster climate.
not trying to be too big a pessimist here, but i figger that modern
society NEEDS a shaking up, a big collapse, before everything gets
utterly out of hand. altho, it certainly seems like we've passed the
point of no return on that one. my wife believes in the gun thing, in
her view, canada here, and most likely the united states are headed
into domestic problems. here on the east coast, the TAGS program which
was implemented for the re-education of fisherfolks, is running out
this year, and there'll be a lot of hungry fathers who cant support
their families. in the past few years, eastern canada has seen
occupations by fisherfolk of Department FIsheries Offices,
Unemployment Centers. we've had several near rioits, and the unions
burning down an apartment complex in sydney, nova scotia, near my
place.
tensions are high everywhere here, and with the new gun laws, which
seem to be aimed at getting firearms out of the hands of citizenry,
and the imminent breakup of canada <with a probable seccesion of
quebec and ire towards otttawa from british columbia> i figger canada
isnt going to be very stable in the coming years. the united states
suffers many of the same problems, and i figger you'll see tensions
rise a bit there too when the moral and ethical questions of the
unabomb trial are discussed, and i seem to remember something on the
radio from just prior to the big convention for the election in the
states last year with a presidential order declaring that protestors
would be equal in intent to terrorists.
personally, i believe that nostradamus was correct when he <possibly>
mentioned a monstrous disaster for america <that whole sky wil burn at
40 and 5 degrees thing> and be it nuclear or chemical disaster, i dont
think its going to be outside agents that precipitate the event. i
think its going to be domestically brewed. there are a lot of extreme
people in the states <look at the texas seccesionists for example> who
look up to the ideologies of people like mcveigh and the unabomber,
and that huge disaster could be in some way a sort of copy-cat act of
terrorism against the system by one of these people. i think the fear
of nuclear reprisal would keep most countries at bay from destroying
any major us cities through terrorism and nuclear provocation, but a
domestic insurgence i feelis more in the cards.
my 2 cents worth anyhell.....
abel stuart
abvhiael stuart
On Mon, 05 Jan 98 23:38:02 GMT, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul S.)
wrote:
>In article <19980105200...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ronc...@aol.com (RONCRAFT) wrote:
>
>>Paul, you don't understand. There's no more infrastructure, no more
>>distribution system, no place for the grocer to get turkeys. You want a
>>turkey, you hunt it or trap it, just like the native americans did.
>
>FROM WHERE? Where do I, an ordinary Joe who lives in the middle of downtown,
>say Brooklyn, go and hunt a turkey?
>
>You guys are REALLY not thinking this through. You can't just wave a magic
>wand and expect people to suddenly know where to go and get food when all they
>have ever done is gone to the grocery.
then you probably wouldnt survive. cities after a major biblical <i
use that term loosely, not religiously> catastrophe are going to be
very dangerous places to be. i dont think youd have to worry too damn
much about how you're going to get that turkey if you cant survive the
rampant looting <immediate> and eventual formations of little gangs
and warlords in the cities.
hunting and trapping game is going to be the least of the problems
someone living in a city at a cataclysmic time would face.
------------------------------------------+
abel stuart
abvhiael stuart
>sa...@roundthebend.com (Sandy Kear) wrote:
>
>>In article <34bd6a00...@news.mindspring.com>, thispar...@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>as well. The Golden rule would be - He who has the weapons
>>>can take the gold and rule.
>>
>>Only until he falls asleep .... at which point a rock is sufficient weaponry
>>against him.
>>
>>Sandy
>
>Which is why those birds of a feather flock together - to watch each
>others backs. Did you ever see the movie "Tremors"? If they can find
>someone willing to breed with them I imagine that would be a prime
>example of what a survivalist family would look like - paranoid freaks
not to be inflammatory, but thats a mighty myopic little world view
there. my family, for example, could very well be termed
"survivalist". we moved from a major center in british columbia a
couple of years ago into the boondocks of cape breton island, clear
across the continent, to become more self-reliant. there's no paranoia
here, no freaks either. when my wife and i discussed things, we
figgered, with mounting taxes and shrinking paycheques, the only way
to keep our heads above water would be to get a small patch of land
and raise our own food. in two years, we now have our yearly poultry
<ducks, geese, turkeys, cheekens>, milk from goats, a trout pond on
our property and a lake full of salmon outside the back door, a
generous garden, and best of all, QUIET. id say im a survivalist
because, now, if something happened to disrupt the common flow of
currency, power, policing, &c, id survive. and *IF* catastrophies of
the nature and breadth nostradamus predicted actually come to pass,
those will be the people who have the most chance of survival...those
who already KNOW how to hunt, fish, grow their own food...those who
know already how to survive independantly from the system.
of course, there's lots of bad apples amoung and such survivalist
movement, i actually contacted some to get tips &c and found them to
be exactly as you describe, paranoid freaks. but thats the exception
not the rule. there are many communal groups out there bent on
surviving come hell of highwater <and with all the talk of pole shifts
on this newsgroup lately, thats almost an apropos cliche> such as sun
bear out in the middle of the dakotas or somewhere like that.
i dont mean to sound sondescending or anything like that here, but
with the direction the world seems to be taking, the skills of
survival are probly more important than ever. question is, would you
rather know how to survive and have a good chance of getting thru the
worst, or hope to get by on luck alone when the shit hits the fan and
you have no idea of your ass compared to a hole in the ground?
abel stuart
*DrPostman
jhei...@highlander.cbnet.ns.ca.NOSPAM (abvhiael stuart) wrote:
>not to be inflammatory, but thats a mighty myopic little world view
>there. my family, for example, could very well be termed
>"survivalist". we moved from a major center in british columbia a
>couple of years ago into the boondocks of cape breton island, clear
>across the continent, to become more self-reliant. there's no paranoia
I was addressing the paranoid kind - as long as you don't think that
black helicopters are watching you and that your money is being tracked
from space you would not fit the profile I described. the "Militia of
Montana" and the "Freemen" are what my view was all about.
--
Quote of the week
Have you been mixing your medications again Brucie boy? I have a suggestion 4U:
Take up ski-ing and then have a downhill love encounter with a dutch elm
-Paradigm Orange
Paul S.
>By saying weapons I mean to include supplies such as
>ammo and other essentials. Bullets could become like
>coins - lots of gun nuts can make their own. Survivalist
>have lots of different weapons such as bows and slings
>as well. The Golden rule would be - He who has the weapons
>can take the gold and rule.
What if some of these "survivalist nuts" decide to become law-enforcement?
Thus they are paid to protect? Then the situation would become more like the
Old West rather than The Road Warrior.
Alex
Sorry Paul,
you didn't get the point. There wont be 3 Million people left in Atlanta after the cataclysm we
are talking about. You may have some survivers in the suburbs but I would guess not more than 1%
is going to survive after the first two weeks.
Alex
Paul S. wrote:
> In article <19980105200...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, ronc...@aol.com (RONCRAFT) wrote:
>
> >Paul, if the cataclysms do in fact occur, we'll be reverting to earth centered
> >societies, such as native american tribal societies, aboriginal societies or
> >--- kibbutzes. Individual weath won't mean much, it'll be a case of each
> >contributing according to his own abilities. We won't be buying lumber, we'll
> >be harvesting it.
>
> Well, not necessarily. The change from an industrial society (which we are
> in now) to one that is "earth-centered" (agrarian) would be extremely tough.
> Just take Atlanta for example. We have 3 million people. How do you explain
> to 3 million people that they have to grow their own supplies? Not everyone
> has houses with lots. Many people live in apartments. What about them?
>
> What about income? What's to prevent landowners from displacing people with
> outstanding debts (mortgages) and telling them to take a hike while the
> landowner keeps the house lot and uses it to grow food for himself? It would
> be his right, after all.
>
> Of course, many would say "move to the countryside". Ok. Let's say that
> happens. You are going to eventually get, sooner or later, squatters on
> someone else's property. You're going to get someone that decides they are
> going to take a corner of someone's farm and live there. How do you
> compensate the guy on whose land you are squatting? What's to prevent him
> from forcibly removing you from his property?
>
> Fact to the matter is that an "earth-centered" society would not happen
> overnight nor even within a lifetime. It would take several generations to
> achieve something like that and ultimately the goal would be to move back to
> an industrial society. That is the tendency of man.
>
> >ron
>
Paul S.
>Well Paul, IMHO I believe that you are the one who is not really
>thinking this out... I agree with what you said about bartering....
>But if the Natural Disasters and/or Nukes hit the Earth like some of us
>believe (Armageddon), then gold really will not be worth anything except
>maybe to use as a weight for fishing nets...
Why is that? Why should we throw out 6,000 years of human history and
existance just because there are civilizations that are laid to waste? Having
most major cities laid to ruin does not take away the knowledge we have
accumulated over the past few thousand years. In other words, what basis do
people have to claim that
a) we would not consider gold or silver a currency standard when we have done
so since ancient civilizations?
b) we would go back to an agrarian society? if anything, people are going to
struggle to re-establish a status quo, which means at the very least that
electricity and telephone services would be sought to be re-established.
After that, I am quite sure that it would be followed by transportation and
ultimately a re-building of some major cities.
>I think you are imagining that our Earth will be more advanced than it
>was during, lets say, the stone age.... If any of the various scenarios
>come to pass, as I firmly believe that they will, then those that are
>left on Earth will have to struggle to merely survive. We will ALL have
You are very wrong in this and you are not giving the human race any kind of
credit for the technological and sociological advances made by our society.
If you feel like hunting and gathering for food, fine. I will be seeking to
re-establish electricity, running water, and communication services. And then
when you come out of the woods and decide that hunting and gathering sucks and
that you need to build a home, you will come to me to see if cable can be run
to your house to get electricity and telephone.
>have to unfortunately include myself in this group... The Natives have
>realized for quite some time now, that they need to get back to the
>teachings of their Nations, which involves living off the land.... You
The natives I am sure are going to see such a catastrophe as some kind of sign
from the gods, but they should remember that it is these very same people that
conquered their lands not too long ago that are going to be left behind.
Natives have their own problems to deal with anyway.
>knows how to build a shelter, how to kill an animal for clothing and
>meat etc... it might take a while for people to learn how to do these
>things... Then, perhaps, you can trade and barter... But what does one
>do before we all learn these skills by way of experience?
You adapt. You improvise. You pull together and do what you can. You don't
have to be a Native American to know how to build a shelter or how to set a
trap. In case of a nuclear attack though, you better know how to read a
geiger counter so that you don't build your shelter in the middle of fallout
city.
>Anyway, I hope you take this reply, Paul, in the spirit that it was
>written. I am not mocking your beliefs... I just wanted to put my 2
>cents worth in...... :) I read your posts and know that you contribute
>greatly to this newsgroup.
Well, I hope you understand that my disagreement with you is merely because I
believe that the human spirit is worth a lot more than what seem to be giving
it credit for. And to think that we would collapse completely in the face of
such an attack and forget about the advancements of the 20th century is beyond
belief. I know that other people are going to agree with you and say some
crap about me being too young to know any better and that I am parroting what
I have been taught in college by my evil liberal professors, but that to me is
a cop-out.
We have seen civilizations razed and ruined in the past before and they have
always rebuilt themselves to a level close to or equal to where they were
before. We have no historical basis to assume that we are all going to be
farmers in the face of a nuclear attack. That seems to be a naturalist's
daydream.
>Wind
>--
> |------------------------------------------------------|
> | http://www.hom.net/~wind |
> | 000 |
> | Life is like a 00 . 00 |
> | Medicine Wheel. 0 . . . 0 |
> | Everything is 00 . 00 Life is a Mystery. |
> | Connected... 000 Mystery is Life... |
> | | | | Wind |
> | " | " |
> | " |
> |------------------------------------------------------|
+--------------------------------------------+
Paul S.
>for a week or two in a society where you are on your own. Gold would mean
>nothing to you. You would kill for water and food. Starvation does that to
>people.
I'm not saying that it would never be worthless. My initial point (which got
lost in all the short-sightedness of people in attacking this point very
weakly) is that a barter economy would eventually fail and that eventually
people would have to turn to some kind of standard for currency and history
shows time and time again that that currency would probably be gold. No one
can discount this.
>Again, if society experienced a major upheavel how would one landowner force
>all his tenants to leave or comply with his wishes? It would be survival of
>the fittest (or best armed).
With guns of course. But people are arguing that we would simply drop our
daily lives and begin to farm. First of all, if it's a nuclear attack, good
luck farming anything on radioactive land. Second, good luck dealing with the
landowners. They will probably have had more money than you before an attack
and thus more likely to be armed, since they could have purchased their arms
before the attack.
Paul S.
In article <wgcid$1$g170$h302$i15$j043...@gratisnet.com>, Dan.T...@dt.gratisnet.com (Dan Thurman) wrote:
>With that sennario, modern man being what he is, I'd expect we'd
>be back in caves within two generations.
And back into homes within 4 generations. I'm sure electricity would be
restored within 4 generations also.
RONCRAFT
In article <690f3v$c...@camel20.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
S.) writes:
>We have seen civilizations razed and ruined in the past before and they have
always rebuilt themselves to a level close to or equal to where they were
before. We have no historical basis to assume that we are all going to be
farmers in the face of a nuclear attack. That seems to be a naturalist's
daydream.
Paul, the decline and fall of the roman empire's a good precedent. But you
should consider that there will be no infrastructure; no mass transportation,
no electrical power generation, no petoleum refineries, no raw material
processing facilities, etc.
IMO technology is so taken for granted (and so misused) these days that it's
virtually impossible for anyone under the age of 50 or so to visualize a world
without it.
Please don't interpret that as an attack upon your age and perspectives. As
you know from our prior interchanges, speaking for myself, have a healthy
respect for your thoughts and opinions.
I think another consideration in the back of my mind is that we do seem to be
evolving spiritually, in the sense that we're more conscious of our integrity,
interaction, and interdependence with the planet and and universe. I see more
and more of Dr. Kenneth Ring's Omega humans turning up, coming out of their
intellectual and spiritual closets. I doubt very much that we'd revert to our
prior destructive patterns in rebuilding civilization, and would concentrate on
living in harmony with nature.
ron
RONCRAFT
In article <690fhs$c...@camel20.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
S.) writes:
>And back into homes within 4 generations. I'm sure electricity would be
restored within 4 generations also.
You wouldn't be so sure if you lived in Florida after a hurricane ;-). (it
only seems like 4 generations, actually)
ron
*DrPostman
pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul S.) wrote:
>In article <34bd6a00...@news.mindspring.com>, thispar...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
>>By saying weapons I mean to include supplies such as
>>ammo and other essentials. Bullets could become like
>>coins - lots of gun nuts can make their own. Survivalist
>>have lots of different weapons such as bows and slings
>>as well. The Golden rule would be - He who has the weapons
>>can take the gold and rule.
>
>What if some of these "survivalist nuts" decide to become law-enforcement?
>Thus they are paid to protect? Then the situation would become more like the
>Old West rather than The Road Warrior.
Or more like David Brin's book - The Postman ( I hear that the movie
isn't at all like the book) In that book there was an expanding colony
of survivalist who were bent on taking over but are met by an organized
resistance finally. I highly recommend the book.
RONCRAFT
In article <19980107201...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ronc...@aol.com
(RONCRAFT) writes:
ron
oops!! sorry about that attribute, Paul. That was Dan Thurmond's post I was
answering re: the lack of alacrity in restoring our power after storms.
ron
Fred Costello
I agree with Ron on this one. The loss of technology would be
unbelievably devastating to our culture, would cause unthought-of chaos and
could potentially destroy our culture completely--throwing us back an age
or two given the completeness of infrastructure destruction.
There are very few people who would be able to bridge the gaps between
forging certain subatances-to building a chip-to making a computer-to
coding a computer-to generating a network-to reestablishing a local
internet--to reestablishing a global internet.
Imagine having to bridge similiar gaps in EVERY AREA of
technology--transportation, manufacturing, education, medicine, the list
goes on. Enormous amounts of information would be lost and almost
irreplaceable.
On top of the difficulty in replacing this information, people wouldnt have
the time or inclination to do it. They'd be thinking of things like: How
am I going to find water? How will I stay warm?
I think Ron's statement of "taking things for granted" sums things up
really well. Every part of our society hinges on several other parts to
function. Given a really large disaster, all of the parts would be gone,
and, therefore, almost impossible to replace even one because that one
relies on all the others. Because of the interdependant nature of our
culture, it is a very fragile thing.
Fred
once upon a time, RONCRAFT (ronc...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <690f3v$c...@camel20.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
: S.) writes:
:
: >We have seen civilizations razed and ruined in the past before and they have
: always rebuilt themselves to a level close to or equal to where they were
: before. We have no historical basis to assume that we are all going to be
: farmers in the face of a nuclear attack. That seems to be a naturalist's
: daydream.
:
:
: Paul, the decline and fall of the roman empire's a good precedent. But you
: should consider that there will be no infrastructure; no mass transportation,
: no electrical power generation, no petoleum refineries, no raw material
: processing facilities, etc.
: IMO technology is so taken for granted (and so misused) these days that it's
: virtually impossible for anyone under the age of 50 or so to visualize a world
: without it.
:
: Please don't interpret that as an attack upon your age and perspectives. As
: you know from our prior interchanges, speaking for myself, have a healthy
: respect for your thoughts and opinions.
:
: I think another consideration in the back of my mind is that we do seem to be
: evolving spiritually, in the sense that we're more conscious of our integrity,
: interaction, and interdependence with the planet and and universe. I see more
: and more of Dr. Kenneth Ring's Omega humans turning up, coming out of their
: intellectual and spiritual closets. I doubt very much that we'd revert to our
: prior destructive patterns in rebuilding civilization, and would concentrate on
: living in harmony with nature.
:
: ron
:
:
:
--
Here lies one whose name was writ in water.
Dan Thurman
Hey Y'all!
Wednesday, 7 January 1998 20:42:43, GATE170 speaking
about Re: What to do, if the EARTH is nuked or COMPLETELY devasted -
was RE: to All
p> Organization: Ereet Message-ID:
p> <690f3v$c...@camel20.mindspring.com> Date: Wed, Wednesday, 7 January
p> 1998 20:42:43 GMT Subject: Re: What to do, if the EARTH is nuked or
p> COMPLETELY devasted - was RE:time bomb 200 From:
p> GATE170 (Paul S.)
p> In article <34B17D...@hom.net>, wi...@hom.net wrote:
These are both good rebuttals, but the whole context hinges
on the extent of the destruction.
p> > Well Paul, IMHO I believe that you are the one who is not
p> > really thinking this out... I agree with what you said about
p> bartering.... >But if the Natural Disasters and/or Nukes hit the
p> Earth like some of us >believe (Armageddon), then gold really will
p> not be worth anything except >maybe to use as a weight for fishing
p> nets...
With major destruction and only a remnent of mankind surviving,
knowledge of iron smelting could be of more value.
p> Why is that? Why should we throw out 6,000 years of human
p> history and existance just because there are civilizations that are
p> laid to waste? Having most major cities laid to ruin does not take
p> away the knowledge we have accumulated over the past few thousand
p> years. In other words, what basis do people have to claim that
Maybe, maybe not. Can you repair a programmable control system
at the power plant? If so I hope you survive, most could not.
The point being the accumulated knowledge will be limited to
the sum total of those who come through it. You or I MIGHT
make the electricity flow if only in each of our individual
homes, but I can safely say my 17 year old son would be sitting
in the dark wondering why the fridge isn't working ;)
p> b) we would go back to an agrarian society? if anything, people
p> are going to struggle to re-establish a status quo, which means at
p> the very least that electricity and telephone services would be
p> sought to be re-established. After that, I am quite sure that it
p> would be followed by transportation and ultimately a re-building of
p> some major cities.
Again a big maybe. Utilities operate on a cost per customer
basis. Much of the rural US would not have electricity today
if the government hadn't created the REC in the 30's. Just
too cost prohibitive. And where do the parts to repair the
systems come from? Either opinion is determined valid only
by the extent of the destruction.
p> >I think you are imagining that our Earth will be more advanced
p> than it >was during, lets say, the stone age.... If any of the
p> various scenarios >come to pass, as I firmly believe that they
will,
p> then those that are >left on Earth will have to struggle to merely
p> survive. We will ALL have
What frightens me is we lived with technology. We will be able
to maintain some of it during our lifetime. At least as long as
the parts hold out. Our grandchildren will know only our stories.
At some point we become myth.
p> You are very wrong in this and you are not giving the human race
p> any kind of credit for the technological and sociological advances
p> made by our society. If you feel like hunting and gathering for
p> food, fine. I will be seeking to re-establish electricity, running
p> water, and communication services. And then when you come out of
the
p> woods and decide that hunting and gathering sucks and that you need
p> to build a home, you will come to me to see if cable can be run to
p> your house to get electricity and telephone.
The prophets said there won't be enough left alive to bury the
dead. Phone service might not be a real high priority.
p> >have to unfortunately include myself in this group... The
p> Natives have >realized for quite some time now, that they need to
p> get back to the >teachings of their Nations, which involves living
p> off the land.... You
If this is true then the best preparation you could make
would be collect open pollinated seeds. Hybrids will feed
you for one season, but that's a whole nother tangent.
p> The natives I am sure are going to see such a catastrophe as
p> some kind of sign from the gods, but they should remember that it
is
p> these very same people that conquered their lands not too long ago
p> that are going to be left behind. Natives have their own problems
to
p> deal with anyway.
Your probably correct. Then again the Hopi's are batting
a 1000 prophecy wise compared to Nostys 200. The natives
also now have aquired the same skills as modern man as
well as tribal tradition.
p> >knows how to build a shelter, how to kill an animal for
p> clothing and >meat etc... it might take a while for people to learn
p> how to do these >things... Then, perhaps, you can trade and
p> barter... But what does one >do before we all learn these skills by
p> way of experience?
Go looting ! ;)
p> We have seen civilizations razed and ruined in the past before
p> and they have always rebuilt themselves to a level close to or
equal
p> to where they were before. We have no historical basis to assume
p> that we are all going to be farmers in the face of a nuclear
attack.
p> That seems to be a naturalist's daydream.
See also: Noah
We have no knowledge of how advanced mankind was at that point.
Of course this could be just myth. ;)
Atlantis. Yeah myth.
You see my point ?
-=> Later on, Dan <=-
Live and direct from the Indian Nations
Dan Thurman - Home Sweet Oklahoma Wednesday, 7 January 1998 at 15:27.
Fidonet : 1:170/302.15 - Internet : d...@gratisnet.com
.!. Wild Women Tamed Here...........
dthu...@cottagesoft.com
pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul S.) writes: > In article <wgcid$1$g170$h302$i15$j043...@gratisnet.com>, Dan.T...@dt.gratisnet.com (Dan Thurman) wrote:
>
> >With that sennario, modern man being what he is, I'd expect we'd
> >be back in caves within two generations.
>
> restored within 4 generations also.
>
levels of destruction. Tell me this, the world as we know it has ended,
your can go pump some gas at the burned out quik trip if you can some
how rig a generator to operate the pumps. Then your cars water pump
eventually craters. No place to buy one, USSteel was nuked and there's
been no production of any magnitude for years. Do you have the skills
or tools to make a mold, melt some junk iron and cast a new housing?
What do you use for the bearing?
My point being nobody builds anything from the ground up anymore and
while it can be done it's equivilent to reinventing the wheel.
I grew up on a farm in Oklahoma, with a father who was a young man
during the depression. I understand making do with what you've got
but trust me, it's won't be society as you know it in four generations.
If anything it will be regression as each succeeding generation dies
off for a while and more and more old knowledge is lost.
There will be some form of money , but for the most part your craft
will be your livelihood.
Greg Marcus
When it's time to start over, we will be leaving oil alone.
We will also be going to a tiered system of farming. Supposedly, you can
get a lot of food this way, and doesn't seem to be toxically
unnatural.Also, every seven years we won't harvest. You wonder why our
soil is blowing away? Jesus people are stupid. And it's not cause it's the
freaking bible and we are being naughty, and it's punishment. Hey. I like
that. "Jesus people" are stupid.
wind (wi...@hom.net) writes:
>>In article <19980105200...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>
>>ronc...@aol.com (RONCRAFT) wrote:
>>
>> >Paul, you don't understand. There's no more infrastructure, no more
>> >distribution system, no place for the grocer to get turkeys. You want a
>> >turkey, you hunt it or trap it, just like the native americans did.
>>
>
> In which Paul S. replied:
>
>
>> FROM WHERE? Where do I, an ordinary Joe who lives in the middle of downtown,
>> say Brooklyn, go and hunt a turkey?
>>
>> You guys are REALLY not thinking this through. You can't just wave a magic
>> wand and expect people to suddenly know where to go and get food when all they
>> have ever done is gone to the grocery.
>>
>> What you would eventually get is people trading with people that are skilled
>> at hunting. So I would go and trade with a trapper who knows where to get the
>> turkey and in turn I have to give him a valuable commodity, whether it be
>> whisky or gasoline or whatever valuable I can get my hands on. And
>> eventually, I would bet 100 dollars, the trappers would begin accepting gold
>> as a currency substitute. It has happened all throughout history and there is
>> no reason why it wouldn't happen again.
>>
>
>>
>> +--------------------------------------------+
>> Paul S.
>> http://www.mindspring.com/~pscigliano/prophecy
>> +--------------------------------------------+
>
>
>
> Well Paul, IMHO I believe that you are the one who is not really
> thinking this out... I agree with what you said about bartering....
> Anyway, I hope you take this reply, Paul, in the spirit that it was
> written. I am not mocking your beliefs... I just wanted to put my 2
> cents worth in...... :) I read your posts and know that you contribute
> greatly to this newsgroup.
>
> Wind
> --
> |------------------------------------------------------|
> | http://www.hom.net/~wind |
> | 000 |
> | Life is like a 00 . 00 |
> | Medicine Wheel. 0 . . . 0 |
> | Everything is 00 . 00 Life is a Mystery. |
> | Connected... 000 Mystery is Life... |
> | | | | Wind |
> | " | " |
> | " |
> |------------------------------------------------------|
--
Greg Marcus * When you believe in things you don't understand,
Ottawa, ON * then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.
Canada * - Stevie Wonder
dthu...@cottagesoft.com
ronc...@aol.com (RONCRAFT) writes: > In article <690f3v$c...@camel20.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
> S.) writes:
>
> >We have seen civilizations razed and ruined in the past before and they have
> always rebuilt themselves to a level close to or equal to where they were
> before. We have no historical basis to assume that we are all going to be
> farmers in the face of a nuclear attack. That seems to be a naturalist's
> daydream.
>
>
> should consider that there will be no infrastructure; no mass transportation,
> no electrical power generation, no petoleum refineries, no raw material
> processing facilities, etc.
> IMO technology is so taken for granted (and so misused) these days that it's
> virtually impossible for anyone under the age of 50 or so to visualize a world
> without it.
>
> Please don't interpret that as an attack upon your age and perspectives. As
> you know from our prior interchanges, speaking for myself, have a healthy
> respect for your thoughts and opinions.
>
> I think another consideration in the back of my mind is that we do seem to be
> evolving spiritually, in the sense that we're more conscious of our integrity,
> interaction, and interdependence with the planet and and universe. I see more
> and more of Dr. Kenneth Ring's Omega humans turning up, coming out of their
> intellectual and spiritual closets. I doubt very much that we'd revert to our
> prior destructive patterns in rebuilding civilization, and would concentrate on
> living in harmony with nature.
>
> ron
>
I just wanted to add that civilization as we know it has only
been around for about a hundred years. Prior to that things were
always pretty much to same throughout the ages.
I'm really enjoying these threads, but I finding once again I'm
only receiving part of them. So to you, Paul, Fred, Wind and anyone
else I may have neglected, it's only because I haven't been able to
follow this as well as I would have liked. Some great posts though
from everyone I have seen. Real food for thought.
abvhiael stuart
On Wed, 07 Jan 1998 06:31:30 GMT, thispar...@mindspring.com
(*DrPostman) wrote:
>jhei...@highlander.cbnet.ns.ca.NOSPAM (abvhiael stuart) wrote:
>
>I was addressing the paranoid kind - as long as you don't think that
>black helicopters are watching you and that your money is being tracked
>from space you would not fit the profile I described. the "Militia of
>Montana" and the "Freemen" are what my view was all about.
>
so i suppose it wouldnt be safe to mention that i have to wear a
tinfoil hat during sunny days to kep the evil space aliens from
beaming the thots from my head? :)
<this is your brain, this is MY brain without caffiene.....>
abvhiael stuart
*DrPostman
jhei...@highlander.cbnet.ns.ca.NOSPAM (abvhiael stuart) wrote:
Naw - go ahead. I see it all the time on alt.fan.art-bell.
*8-}
e7...@juno.comx
RON, YOU WON'T SURVIVE!
YOU WILL ALREADY HAVE BEEN DEAD FOR MOCKING THE PROPHET WHO TRIED
TO WARN YOU OF THIS HAPPENING!
IF YOU DO SURVIVE, YOU AND SOLLOG CAN HUNT EACH OTHER....SURVIVAL OF THE
FITTEST! BUT I DOUBT YOUR SABER IS BIGGER.
OH, BTW, SOMETHING YOU SHOULD REMEMBER...A PROPHET OF GOD CAN'T BE
KILLED BY MAN.
e7...@juno.comx
abvhiael stuart wrote:
>
> On Mon, 05 Jan 1998 08:53:02 GMT, thispar...@mindspring.com
> (*DrPostman) wrote:
>
> >ronc...@aol.com (RONCRAFT) wrote:
> >
YEAH,,,,AND YOU BETTER LISTEN TO SOLLOG.....NUCLEAR TERRORISM IS WHAT
THAT IS.....GUARANTEED!
Peter Lemesurier
pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul S.) wrote:
>In article <34B17D...@hom.net>, wi...@hom.net wrote:
>>Well Paul, IMHO I believe that you are the one who is not really
>>thinking this out... I agree with what you said about bartering....
>>But if the Natural Disasters and/or Nukes hit the Earth like some of us
>>believe (Armageddon), then gold really will not be worth anything except
>>maybe to use as a weight for fishing nets...
Hang on, folks - who is supposed to be doing all this nuking, and does
it have anything to do with Nostradamus?
--
Peter
Paul S.
In article <34B496...@juno.comx>, e7...@juno.comx wrote:
>YOU WILL ALREADY HAVE BEEN DEAD FOR MOCKING THE PROPHET WHO TRIED
>TO WARN YOU OF THIS HAPPENING!
FUCK YOU AND FUCK SOLLOG!
>OH, BTW, SOMETHING YOU SHOULD REMEMBER...A PROPHET OF GOD CAN'T BE
>KILLED BY MAN.
GOOD! THEN WE CAN JUST KEEP STOMPING HIS PATHETIC GUTS OUT!!
Paul S.
>Hang on, folks - who is supposed to be doing all this nuking, and does
>it have anything to do with Nostradamus?
We're talking about the possibility of Israel being nuked, and then someone
brought up the "at 45 degrees the sky will burn" quatrain and we started
talking about the effects of nuclear war on civilization.
Yes, dad, we are on subject.
>Peter
Paul S.
>You wouldn't be so sure if you lived in Florida after a hurricane ;-). (it
>only seems like 4 generations, actually)
here we go with the "we know better than you" attitude. I frankly resent
this. I *HAVE* been in Florida after a hurricane and yes, the devastation was
severe, but eventually (within 1 generation in fact) everything was restored
and the zone was well on its way to recovery and growth.
Come on, people. I swear this is the most pessimistic bunch of people I have
seen.
(I can just hear it now: "we're not pessimistic, we're just realizing the
truth!!!)
Give me a break.
>ron
Paul S.
>My point being nobody builds anything from the ground up anymore and
>while it can be done it's equivilent to reinventing the wheel.
Point taken, but we are not talking about world-wide devastation here.
>There will be some form of money , but for the most part your craft
>will be your livelihood.
Just for awhile. Eventually (within a few generations) we would return to the
same technological level and eventually surpass it.
Paul S.
>Paul, the decline and fall of the roman empire's a good precedent. But you
>should consider that there will be no infrastructure; no mass transportation,
>no electrical power generation, no petoleum refineries, no raw material
>processing facilities, etc.
Ok, but there is not one reason why an infrastructure cannot or would not be
rebuilt from the ground up. I'm not talking about restoring power to NYC, but
certainly people will know to live in small groups and eventually I guarantee
you that someone would figure out how to take magnets and a spinning water
wheel and generate electricity!
>IMO technology is so taken for granted (and so misused) these days that it's
>virtually impossible for anyone under the age of 50 or so to visualize a world
>without it.
That's very wrong. People under the age of 50 are not the mindless
liberally-educated sheep you want to believe we are. We are taught the
sciences and foundations of what we have today, and yes, we are taught this in
college.
I can go out right now and make an electrical generator. Granted, it would
barely light a 60-watt light bulb, but I can do it. So can others my age.
Others know chemistry, mechanical engineering, and physics. Others know
political science. In time, in the face of such an incredible attack, we
would be able to reconstruct a normal way of life.
>Please don't interpret that as an attack upon your age and perspectives. As
>you know from our prior interchanges, speaking for myself, have a healthy
>respect for your thoughts and opinions.
I know. I just think you don't give people and especially those in my age
group enough credit for what we are capable of.
>intellectual and spiritual closets. I doubt very much that we'd revert to our
>prior destructive patterns in rebuilding civilization, and would concentrate on
>living in harmony with nature.
Man is destructive and greedy by nature. In the face of losing everything you
own, and in the face of losing loved ones, I think that humans would keep
their nature.
>ron
New Millennium
Paul S. wrote:
> here we go with the "we know better than you" attitude. I frankly resent
> this. I *HAVE* been in Florida after a hurricane and yes, the devastation was
> severe, but eventually (within 1 generation in fact) everything was restored
> and the zone was well on its way to recovery and growth.
Hi Paul,
Which hurricane were you in down here in Florida?
----------------------------------
See You in the Light, IAM,
Newmill
----------------------------------
Carol S. Boshears
In article <wgcid$1$g170$h302$i15$j6d6...@gratisnet.com>,
Dan.T...@dt.gratisnet.com (Dan Thurman) wrote:
> Hey Y'all!
Personally, we would probably all have to kiss our asses good-bye if this
happens!
Carol
New Millennium
Paul S. wrote:
>
> In article <34B51AB1...@concentric.net>, New Millennium <new...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
> >Which hurricane were you in down here in Florida?
>
Hurricane Hugo hit South Carolina - north of Charleston... not Florida.
It was a pretty strong hurricane (cat 3) if you were in the area where
the eyewall came ashore. Where in SC were you during the storm? IAM
assuming you meant that you were in South Carolina, since the storm did
not come anywhere near the state of Florida.
Bob Smith
New Millennium wrote:
Ask to Hurricane Hugo, I went through that. I was (am still am) in Charlotte and it hit Charleston
and went straight up to us 200 miles away. I was up in Annapolis, MD the night it was suppose to
hit the coast on a business trip and was listening to the news in a bar. They were forecasting it
to hit in Charleston and go up the coast (it didn't go up the coast) and they were forecasting
floods from Washington to Baltimore.
I canceled my meeting, called the airline to get a confirmation, ran to the rental car, fought the
5:00 traffic on Highway 50 for two hours to get to National Airport and was just able to get on the
last flight out of there to Charlotte.
At that time, I had a first class return ticket and by the time I got to the gate, the plane was
just leaving. I yelled out first class and they actually brought the plane back for me. Our trip
was like an E ticket ride (for those of you old enough to remember what that was at Disneyland)
going up, down, sideways and all around.
We landed in heavy winds and I drove home. By the time I got home, around 10:00 winds were 60 MPH
and climbing. Through the night, they got up to over 100 MPH.
My power was out for 9 days. Had to basically camp in the house for 9 days. Our refrigerated food
lasted about three days before we started to either eat it or throw it away. We still had natural
gas and water, but no electricity. Fortunately we had a gas hot water heater, so we were able to
take hot showers, but we had inside bathrooms (no windows), so we had to use a flashlight.
Interesting experience with this disaster, as it brought out all the neighbors to do a joint and
massive bbq of all the meats, potatoes and stuff for days 2 through 5. We all got to know each
other and it was nice. Families who had lived together in the neighbor for 3 to 5 years and who had
not talked much, if any, to other families were now talking, laughing and sharing their food.
The markets were open to buy things, but we had to wait in line, and go in one by one to get
whatever wasn't perishable with an employee so as to stop any five finger discounts. Same thing for
the other stores.
The biggest need was for ice and batteries, D batteries were the highest demand. They hauled ice
into the city all the way from Florida, Arkansas, Ohio etc. and had radio reports on where to buy
it. By the time you would get to a site, it would be all gone, so most of us would cruise around
just looking for ice trucks.
Portable generators and chain saws were the biggest ticket sellers. One neighbor bought a generator
and we got to watch a few hours of cable TV and sports. Imagine that, no juice, but the cable
signal was still good. <g> Propane Gas was another big seller.
I don't remember if we had phones, but I think we did after 3 or 4 days or so.
As to damages, in our neighborhood, we all suffered minor roof leaks and I had a couple of big
trees go down, away from the house <g>. Other people were not so fortunate with trees that did
collapse on homes, cars all over town.
A lot of us chipped in and helped cut trees and clear them out. They had utility companies coming
from 5 states to help get the juice back up. Some neighborhoods were out for 3 weeks before power
returned.
All in all, it was mind boggling not having TV, VCRs etc. running and going to bed by no later than
9:00 to 9:30 PM as you didn't want to waste the batteries.
It was also a real party time as there was nothing else to do if you didn't have a chain saw. The
beer, wine and booze flowed between all the friends. The feeling in the neighborhood was kinda like
being at a old western bar, just talking and drinking.
After the power was restored, the party stopped, and everyone went back to their own little worlds.
We returned to the same point of time before the storm hit. We might wave at those neighbors we
hadn't met before, but we certainly did not converse or party with them.
I was totally amazed how the storm brought us together and then, poof, it was back to ourselves
again.
Regards, Bob
Paul S.
>Which hurricane were you in down here in Florida?
Hugo.
>----------------------------------
> See You in the Light, IAM,
> Newmill
>----------------------------------
+--------------------------------------------+
RONCRAFT
In article <6933da$v...@camel20.mindspring.com>, pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul
S.) writes:
>>You wouldn't be so sure if you lived in Florida after a hurricane ;-).
>(it
>only seems like 4 generations, actually)
here we go with the "we know
>better than you" attitude. I frankly resent
this.
Tongue in cheek, Paul. Keep your sense of humor intact, except with sloghshit
:-).
I was responding to Dan's humorous comment, primarily, with a back handed slap
at our local power company who hasn't responded very quickly in the past. But
the fact is that because we lived through some very times, including years in
bunkers or foxholes, and have "been there, done that". It may be that our
experiences will be absolutely nothing compared to what you and your
generation will be able to tell their kids and granchildren :-). I think you
post regarding a spinning wheel and magnet to generate electricity is pretty
close to what we were talking about, except it's hard to visualize what you'd
use the electricity for, other than lighting, with the infrastructure gone.
Windmills and water wheels would work better than the spinning wheel, though.
Anyway, i guess you got our point.
Not all humans are selfish and destructive. We tend to pull together in times
of emergency, whether a natural disaster, under attack or whatever. It's the
kind of innate altruism that lets an 18 year old kid dive on a grenade to save
the lives of his fire team buddies, that lets a teen ager run into a burning
house to pull out a little kid, then go back for her kitten, and the kind of
sharing and caring that Bob talked about in his hurricane story. The problem
has always been that it's that 10% who are agents of destruction and negativity
that screw things up for the rest of humanity. As Bob pointed out, his
neighbors reverted to their own worlds once our technological wonders were
restored, reverting to all the hang-ups and pressures of our materialistic
culture. Which world is the "real" world? The "normal" world before the 'cane
and after the cleanup, or the caring, sharing world when nature prevailed
technology failed? . In which world does the true human spirit shine through?
ron
Paul S.
New Millennium wrote:
> Hurricane Hugo hit South Carolina - north of Charleston... not Florida.
ANDREW.. sorry, I had a brain cramp.. =)
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!
Paul S.
>Windmills and water wheels would work better than the spinning wheel, though.
>Anyway, i guess you got our point.
Well, you know what I meant: you'd improvise...
>ron
Bob Smith
Paul S. wrote:
> New Millennium wrote:
>
> > Hurricane Hugo hit South Carolina - north of Charleston... not Florida.
>
> ANDREW.. sorry, I had a brain cramp.. =)
>
> Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!
>
> +--------------------------------------------+
> Paul S.
> http://www.mindspring.com/~pscigliano/prophecy
> +--------------------------------------------+
ROTFLOLPMGO Paul. And with the flu bug right now, I can say that literally.
<g>
Bob
abvhiael stuart
On Thu, 08 Jan 1998 00:59:00 -0800, e7...@juno.comx wrote:
>abvhiael stuart wrote:
>> personally, i believe that nostradamus was correct when he <possibly>
>> mentioned a monstrous disaster for america <that whole sky wil burn at
>> 40 and 5 degrees thing> and be it nuclear or chemical disaster,
>
>
>YEAH,,,,AND YOU BETTER LISTEN TO SOLLOG.....NUCLEAR TERRORISM IS WHAT
>THAT IS.....GUARANTEED!
you really don't need to have a prophet in your pocket to see a
nuclear disaster somewhere within the continental united states in the
near future sollog. all one needs is a good understanding of the
geo-political situation. if i were to make a prediction, i would think
the first act of deadly terrorism MAY be witnessed in the very near
future. me, i figger we'll see something hit during the olympics in
japan. why? well, japan is part of that well touted G7 group. so is
the US and Great Britain. what a happy coup for the islamic extremists
to strike a blow against its greatest "enemies" by attacking the
olympic games. there's that quatrain bandied about here recently, with
the "great 7th number" and the "games of terror" or what have you. me,
personally, i think that is what the quatrain means, although i would
think it would occur at the millenial olympics....
Peter Lemesurier
pscig...@mindspring.com (Paul S.) wrote:
>In article <34b4b...@hades.ndirect.co.uk>, lem...@pembrokeshire.co.uk wrote:
>>Hang on, folks - who is supposed to be doing all this nuking, and does
>>it have anything to do with Nostradamus?
>We're talking about the possibility of Israel being nuked, and then someone
>brought up the "at 45 degrees the sky will burn" quatrain and we started
>talking about the effects of nuclear war on civilization.
>Yes, dad, we are on subject.
OK, boy, carry on. Just checkin'. (Nuclear war where, by the way?)
>+--------------------------------------------+
>Paul S.
>http://www.mindspring.com/~pscigliano/prophecy
>+--------------------------------------------+
--
Peter
lapin
[Stuff about hurricanes removed.]
I find the disolution or breakdown of society to be an interesting topic.
I think that is what attracted me to Ol' Nosty in the first place. I was
at the San Francisco Opera last night (8 jan 98) attending a benifit
rehersal of Tosca. During the interval I went out onto the balcony that
overlooks Van Ness Street and the civic center. The city hall is still
covered in scaffolding. High powered light was projected from the opposite
side lighting the dome lighting it like a crecent moon. Light inside the
building revield through windows not covered the steel renforcing
structure being installed within.
It has been almost 9 years since the 89 shaker. This is just one of the
scars it left. The freeway I used to take to the opera no longer exists.
Inside the house, which was closed for 18 months until last fall the
guilding showed bright. For almost 5 years after the quake a net hung from
the cieling to protect us from falling plaster. Now the house once again
shines.
While out on the balcony I could look down Grove street and see the new
library designed by I.M Pei[sp] and associates (emphasis on assoiates).
The civic center was re built in the years after the 06' Quake and Fire. I
was reminded of Pompeii. How the buildings were propped up by earthquake,
prior to the eruption of Vesuvius. Again we rebuild the SanFrancisco
infastructure. The current boom in Silicon Valley technology could be
attributed back to that moment. The internet was designed to survive
disolution of society. It is actually more like a concept. As the path
throught the woods is a concept. You can either let people pass, charge a
toll, or build a wall. If a wall is built or too high a toll charged then
a new path can be constructed.
What I am trying to say here is that we as a people will rebuild. It may
not look as before. There may be more understanding of things that fear
us. We may put protection where there was none before. These disasters
leave deep scars that become myth as the generations progress. Becouse of
that earthquake. Tight fisted philanthropers weakened to build that
library I was looking at. It is like no other library, more like a museum
in places. There is some contraversy that the books seem hidden within.
Inside there are books written by one Nevil Shute [Norway]. While well
known I thought his On the Beach to be one of his weakest stories. I
reccomend the readers of this thread who are interested in post war
survival to read his works. I reccomend you to a book titled either
(Ordeal) or (What happened to the Corbits) depending on wheather you are
either in the US or in other English speaking countries. This was a
prediction of what would happen if the Germans air bombed South Hampton
england. It was earaly accurate. It deals with the effects of concussion
blast, chollera epidemics. (how many know how to build a latrine) food
shartage and other topics described hear in.
Contrast this with Shute's (Kindling/Ruined City) where a man goes to jail
for making an illegal (by internatinal law) deal with a Balkin state to
save an industrial city in the north of England. Again prophetic. I
remember a statement to the effect, that you could tell a city was in
trouble when you could make out the words Woolworth from the stains where
the sign had once been.
These were thoughts I had while standing on the balcony thinking about
this thread. The propheitic writings of Shute lead me to want to find out
more about prophecy. Cayce seems fringe. Nosty though seemed mainstream.
Shute implied he just took the past and changed a few of the names. His 30
year projection of what would happen to the English royal family _In the
wet_ is facinating. I can not reccomend him too much for anyone who wants
to know what the sort of things Nosty was predicting could be like. Shute
was in charge of experimental/unconventional weponry for the British
Admralty diring WWII. He said he wrote his romances to releve the horror
of his regular work. His Autobiography _Slide Rule_ is a facinating
account of the early days of Aviation and private vs public enterprise. He
was at the post office in Ireland on Easter Monday of 1918. Any civilan
who wants to survive should read his works. I re-read (No Highway) anytime
there is a major air disaster. The pyramidology in it is absolutly dead
on. A facinating account of where does science stop and psuedoscience
begin.
-lapin
--
It is a matter of grave importance that fairy tales should be
respected ... everyone who has considerd the subject knows full well
that a nation, without fancy, without some romance, never did, never
can, never will, hold a great place under the sun
-- Charles Dickens Frauds and Fairies.
F...@earthlink.net
Paul S. wrote:
>
> In article <88422744...@linux2.cottagesoft.com>, <dthu...@cottagesoft.com> wrote:
>
> >My point being nobody builds anything from the ground up anymore and
> >while it can be done it's equivilent to reinventing the wheel.
>
> Point taken, but we are not talking about world-wide devastation here.
>
> >There will be some form of money , but for the most part your craft
> >will be your livelihood.
>
> Just for awhile. Eventually (within a few generations) we would return to the
> same technological level and eventually surpass it.
>
> Paul S.
> http://www.mindspring.com/~pscigliano/prophecy
> +--------------------------------------------+
i hear sollog says you'll be dead by then along with the other millions
after the first blast.
Jsgebo
Bob,
I got to Charlotte after the Hugo party but I tell you I was pretty worried
when Fran was making a beeline toward the city. Luckily she veered off and
missed us completely.
Bob Smith
Jsgebo wrote:
About Fran ... me too. As soon as I heard it was possibly coming here, I ran
out and bought 4 bags of ice, 3 loaves of bread, 2 big jars of peanut butter,
lottas new batteries - all kinds and 5 cases of beer. (Gotta remember the beer
folks cause it helps during those times, both for you and to the friends who
you offer it to after their help)
Regards, Bob
Paul S.
>i hear sollog says you'll be dead by then along with the other millions
>after the first blast.
I hear you know for a fact that Sollog likes it up the ass.
Charles James Hoyenski III
I am just curious; I saw a film when I was small called
"On the Beach" it was about an american submarine that
survived a nuclear war and set port in Australia to live out
the aftermath of the Holocaust/Post nuclear disaster, is
this the same guy and the same movie ?, I could not find
it in ANY of the video rental shops but I know the movie
was made I'd say, back in the early sixties, have you
heard of it ?.
lapin <jpo...@lunacity.com> wrote in article
<jporter-0901...@a17-205-33-106.apple.com>...
> [Stuff about hurricanes removed.]
*DrPostman
"Charles James Hoyenski III" <hoye...@flash.net> wrote:
>I am just curious; I saw a film when I was small called
>"On the Beach" it was about an american submarine that
>survived a nuclear war and set port in Australia to live out
>the aftermath of the Holocaust/Post nuclear disaster, is
>this the same guy and the same movie ?, I could not find
>it in ANY of the video rental shops but I know the movie
>was made I'd say, back in the early sixties, have you
>heard of it ?.
I have - and I am surprised you are having such trouble finding
it. Its one of the most chilling movies ever made of that venue.
Stanley Kramer made it in 1959 (my birth year) and had Gregory
Peck, Fred Astaire, Anthony Perkins, and Ava Gardner. I'd give
your local video store hell for not having it. Another good one to
scare the hell out of you is "Fail Safe". After that watch "Doctor
Strangelove, or how I learned to stop worrying and love the Bomb"
That ought to get you back in balance. And mind those "precious
bodily fluids".
--
Quote of the week
"Lets say I committed this crime...even if I did do this, it
would have to have been because I loved her very much, right?"
O.J.Simpson - Esquire Mag. Feb98
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
High Counselor of the New Usenet Order
Addicted to Art Bell? http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1282
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, Lifetime member of the
Art Bell Internet Fan Club, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: jamiemps(at)mindspring.com
"I am inclined to exaggeration" a direct quote from Dr Turi's web site
--
lapin
In article <01bd1e64$65bba0c0$40c4...@hovenski.www.flash.net>, "Charles
James Hoyenski III" <hoye...@flash.net> wrote:
> I am just curious; I saw a film when I was small called
> "On the Beach" it was about an american submarine that
> survived a nuclear war and set port in Australia to live out
> the aftermath of the Holocaust/Post nuclear disaster, is
> this the same guy and the same movie ?, I could not find
> it in ANY of the video rental shops but I know the movie
> was made I'd say, back in the early sixties, have you
> heard of it ?.
It is based on the book. Made about 1959/1960 B&W. Differs a bitfrom the
book to make it more soft. Unfortunalty the greedy relitives have the
properties locked up. Fred Astair took a non dancing roll becouse he felt
so stronly about the subject. The rest of the cast is A list. The coke
bottle scene is unforgetable. The sub with the last survivors (who
survived by beeing underwater) get a random code transmission from San
Francisco(movie) Seattle(book). They get their and find a hydro powered
xmitter. The coke bottle is trapped under the windowsill so that part of
the bottle rolls over the code key. Everyone is dieing of radiation
poisining (in the book they have bloody stools). It has been a while since
i saw the film (same problem). I remember there was a race car driver
(astair) a guy trying to drink all the port in his club. A couple trying
to raise a baby (he is the captian of the sub or something) and a few
other assorted characters that are in southern austraila.
It is THE classic EOW story where everyone dies.
Many of Shute's stories were filmed. like most writers he had real troble
with keeping the film true to the written story. He even poked fun of that
in no Highway. Half of that was made into a film With Jimmy Stewart and
Marleana Dietrich. One of Jimmy Stewart's best scenes is when he crashes
the plane on the runway to keep it from taking off. That has been showing
up in Stewart retrospectives recently.
These used to show up on late night TV a lot when I was little. I think
they were part of the RKO library that Hughes sold off. I have looked for
these films in video stores, but they are not in the cataloge. They are
however in the internet movie database. Forget the URL but a web search on
IMdB should find it.
The other half of No Highway (not in the film)is about using a planchette
(ouija board) to find the missing part of a downed airplane that was
carring the Russian ambassidor. It gets deep into prophesy and the stuff
discussed here. Much of that part sounds like sollog or Dr Gene Scott. An
interesting premis tho. What would you do if your best engineer ranted
like sollog that christ was retunning in speptember of 1998 and the
product you are making will kill thousands of people if you ship it? Even
more you know your product just killed half a dozen people... (It is told
from the POV of sollogs boss)
-lapin
>
> lapin <jpo...@lunacity.com> wrote in article
> <jporter-0901...@a17-205-33-106.apple.com>...
> > [Stuff about hurricanes removed.]
> There is some contraversy that the books seem hidden within.
> > Inside there are books written by one Nevil Shute [Norway]. While well
> > known I thought his On the Beach to be one of his weakest stories. >
lapin
In article <34bdbf08...@news.mindspring.com>,
DrPo...@mindspring.com wrote:
> "Charles James Hoyenski III" <hoye...@flash.net> wrote:
>
> >I am just curious; I saw a film when I was small called
> >"On the Beach" it was about an american submarine that
> >survived a nuclear war and set port in Australia to live out
> >the aftermath of the Holocaust/Post nuclear disaster, is
> >this the same guy and the same movie ?, I could not find
> >it in ANY of the video rental shops but I know the movie
> >was made I'd say, back in the early sixties, have you
> >heard of it ?.
>
> I have - and I am surprised you are having such trouble finding
> it. Its one of the most chilling movies ever made of that venue.
> Stanley Kramer made it in 1959 (my birth year) and had Gregory
> Peck, Fred Astaire, Anthony Perkins, and Ava Gardner. I'd give
> your local video store hell for not having it. Another good one to
> scare the hell out of you is "Fail Safe". After that watch "Doctor
> Strangelove, or how I learned to stop worrying and love the Bomb"
> That ought to get you back in balance. And mind those "precious
> bodily fluids".
Agreed. Actually the last two were made from the same book. I remember a
lot of contraversy as to who was first. DSohIltsWaltb was my favorite film
as an eight year old. I recently got it on DVD (awsome tech by the way,
but avoid the DivX) and realised that all the dialog was written at a
first grade comprehension. But it really seems different as an adult.
As far as getting OTB from the Vid store, good luck. You might find it on
late night TV. The heirs of every one of those people want mucho $$$ from
it or so I have been told. Mebby the net will change this as Amazon has
started to carry hard to find vids as well.
-lapin
>
>
>
>
> --
> Quote of the week
> "Lets say I committed this crime...even if I did do this, it
> would have to have been because I loved her very much, right?"
> O.J.Simpson - Esquire Mag. Feb98
>
> Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
> High Counselor of the New Usenet Order
> Addicted to Art Bell? http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1282
> Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, Lifetime member of the
> Art Bell Internet Fan Club, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
> You can email me at: jamiemps(at)mindspring.com
> "I am inclined to exaggeration" a direct quote from Dr Turi's web site
> --
Gavin Palmer
on 10 Jan 98, F...@earthlink.net wrote...
>Paul S. wrote:
>>
>> In article <88422744...@linux2.cottagesoft.com>,
<dthu...@cottagesoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> >My point being nobody builds anything from the ground up anymore and
>> >while it can be done it's equivilent to reinventing the wheel.
>>
>> Point taken, but we are not talking about world-wide devastation here.
>>
>> >There will be some form of money , but for the most part your craft
>> >will be your livelihood.
>>
>> Just for awhile. Eventually (within a few generations) we would return to
the
>> same technological level and eventually surpass it.
>>
>> +--------------------------------------------+
>> Paul S.
>> http://www.mindspring.com/~pscigliano/prophecy
>> +--------------------------------------------+
>
>
>i hear sollog says you'll be dead by then along with the other millions
>after the first blast.
>
What's all this about then? Don't tell me people STILL believe that 1999
quatrain heralds some sort of Armageddon?