XeroBank is MetroPipe, but ScamPipe-Topletz denies it all
Nomen Nescio
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: February 24th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
XeroBank wrote:
> Genady,
>
> I realize people are prone to fits of paranoia, but the attack
> happened at the MeshMX network base, as I explained is the thing we
> have in common, which services both Metropipe and XeroBank on some
> servers. Thus the resulting cascade is affected. So we've made an
> executive decision to segment entirely as our network traffic and do a
> complete migration, which is happening over the next two weeks so we
> can make sure that we don't share any risk domains anymore. You'll be
> seeing servers and services that metropipe isn't offering, so then you
> can enjoy confirmation of what I say. You'll even be able to select
> exit node countries.
>
> Steve
Steve, As far as your connections with MetroPipe: These are fair
questions because there are simply too many coincidences. The
connections between XB and MetroPipe are many. My post back in June of
2007 [see below --Nescio] shows all the "coincidences" even before I
made the discovery that you are using the same servers. Here's the
screenshot evidence, coincidence?
Metropipe IP:
http://aycu30.webshots.com/image/43909/2005608874186097958_rs.jpg
XeroBank IP:
http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/44750/2005682913940611356_rs.jpg
"Some of the servers managed by the same tech group" you say. Hmmm. Do
you know how many (hundreds of thousands) servers there are in the
world? And you BOTH use the SAME "tech group" -- in Germany?
To most people, with the evidence above and all the connections listed
in my original post, the questionable MetroPipe=XeroBank and
XeroBank=MetroPipe. If we're wrong it's the most bizarre set of
coincidences ever.
It's all there, Steve - with too many "coincidences". Joke about it,
make light, do your best - but it's all too much.
For those who want to see the full list of connections between
Metropipe and XeroBank please see the post linked above in the first
paragraph.
And all you really can say (over and over and over) is "trust me."
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http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1018578
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: June 4th, 2007
Subject: WARNING! Torrify is now XeroBank: Serious Questions.
WARNING! Torrify is now XeroBank: Serious Questions.
We all heard good things about Torpark for so long. I used them, felt
good about it. They had great publicity. They have now changed their
name. It's now the "XeroBank Browser." I have questions now - serious
questions. These are being passed to someone with a little more
editorial clout on the net than myself and a thread at Wilders.
But remember, you heard it here first. Here we go......
To Torrify (XeroBank), some questions - and how about a little honesty?
Something caught my attention and I soon saw it was the tip of the
iceberg. Your new XeroBank service (formerly Torrify Premium) is using
Dalpay.is as your payment gateway. Not exactly a major player in the
industry. Dalpay...Hmmm.....Where had I heard that name before? Oh,
yeah....MetroPipe! The alleged loggers and government spies! Dalpay is
also THEIR gateway payment provider. See the Dalpay processing page
here [ https://www.dalpay.is/home.php?cat=257 ] with two services for
anonymous browsing: Xerobank and Metropipe!
Just a coincidence? What about the following:
- Torrify was pushing on their old website the expensive unlimQ
Anonymous Credit Cards. Guess who else does that? MetroPipe! See it
here [ http://www.metropipe.net/ ] (under recommended - left
sidebar) Here's the Google cache [ dead ] of the old Torrify site
promoting the same (obscure) product.
- Torrify was pushing the Rayservers encrypted laptops. Guess who else
does that? MetroPipe! See it here (under recommended - left sidebar)
- The new Xerobank uses "IPSpy" software (pretty rare) to test
anonymous connections. Guess who else uses that? Metropipe! See it
here. [ http://www.metropipe.net/ipspy/ ] Now, if that weren't bad
enough....for new "members" of XeroBank to check the "anonymity" of
their connection with IPSpy, you go to this URL:
https://client.xerobank.com/IPSpy
Even without using their service, what does the IP say? Yep -
88.198.52.150. The page is static. It's fake.
I hope you can see this before they take it down and change it. I've
done a PC Recording of what happens, using their service, and using
a different PC without using their service at all. Both show the
"anonymous" IP. Hmmmm.
- The new Xerobank is getting ready to have a virtual "Xerobank
Machine" all setup on a USB drive. Here on the bottom of the left
sidebar. [ http://www.xerobank.com/products.html ]
Hmmmm....interesting concept. Guess who else does that? Metropipe!
(They call it the "Portable Privacy Machine." All setup for a USB
thumbdrive.) See it here. [ http://www.metropipe.net/ppm.php ]
And there's more. But that will get us started.
Hopefully, Steve Topletz has some answers that make sense about ALL of
the above. The connections with Metropipe are too much to be mere
coincidence. The talk on alt.anon-servers on Usenet has been (for
years) that Metropipe is a logkeeping honeypot and den of spies for
the government. And now.....the TOR Project forces Torrify to change
their name when the so-called "premium service" is released and you
name it XeroBank Browser. And those premium services, it's awfully
interesting how they have all the identical Metropipe signatures: the
same payment processor, the same IP checking software, identical
product shilling for the same anonymous credit card and overpriced
encrypted laptops. The fake "anonymity check".......
Steve, what's up?
--Genady Prishnikov
(proudly using a non-XeroBank proxy that I've used for years. It
routes through a residential IP in a quiet Midwestern U.S. city and
guess what I pay for it? $50 USD a year. A far cry from your asking
price of $400.00 plus a year for services that, as outlined above,
raise more than a little suspicion.)
????? ?????? ??????.
+++Supporting TOR and the EFF+++
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1190153
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: February 24th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
XeroBank wrote:
> Genady: A compilation of erroneous arguments is not itself a stronger
> argument. Perhaps it would be equally impressive if I listed every
> prior response here. Would that make the refutation any better?
> I indulge you too much. The exit nodes are managed by the same tech
> company because then the leases aren't in our name, and they get to be
> the initial handler for the subpoenas and court order requests,
> further insulating our users. If you are familiar with networking,
> imagine these nodes as concentrators. It enhances the anonymity to
> have as much traffic going through the exit nodes as possible. Finding
> an entity with expertise in commercial anonymity techniques, law, and
> technology is more rare than a red diamond. Not much of a coincidence
> at all, because the other guys in town couldn't even find that. That's
> why they suck at what they do.
>
> Lets flip the tables:
>
> Hey, I bet we fill up our cars from the same brand of gas
> station. Coincidence? The oil in our cars came from UAE. Coincidence?
> Our cars were manufactured by the same company. Coincidence? In our
> cars, we drink the very same cola. In all the whole wide world, how
> could this be possible? Scarcity? No. Brand recognition? Never. Market
> makers? Not a chance. It's all just too much. It is a conspiracy. I
> admit it. You and I must be the same person.
Steve, "Erroneous arguments?" That's ridiculous. Insulting,
really. Trying to compare buying gas at the same place....what does
that have to do with the multiple "coincidences" that show a
connection between XB and MetroPipe? It's not just one or two - or
even three or four. There's a long list! The original post in June of
'07 (which I linked to above) was even before you happened to use the
same "tech group" - in Germany! Trying to turn the tables and act like
this is no big deal is simply not being honest. Your attempting to
explain away things that seem too fantastic to believe hardly makes my
list of connections "erroneous."
Now, it's even the same complaints! I read the Internet groups and
boards and read of slow ticket responses, emails not being sent out,
etc. MetroPipe has been notorious for this. Now, I read the same
problems with XeroBank!! (But, there's always a handy response
{excuse} that makes it appear you're so 'open').
Steve, Is there any financial relationship at all between MetroPipe
and XeroBank? How many of the same people are involved in both? Are
any past/present MetroPipe owners, involved in XeroBank?
This whole "trust" thing is important. With you, it always boils down
to fancy word games and parsing of words that make something
technically true - but not completely honest and forthcoming.
I think this is important as I agree trust is all important. Right
now, with the OBVIOUS connections between MetroPipe and XeroBank - and
your only talking around the edges - it is disconcerting. My research
isn't complete and, frankly, I haven't laid all the cards on the table
because I want to see just how honest (or slippery) you can be in this
whole question of "coincidences" with MetroPipe and XB. You are the
one offering the service based on trust. We, as consumers, have the
right to do whatever is necessary to determine if that trust is
warranted. So far, the 'talk' is good, while the fine points and the
lack of candor on MetroPipe/XeroBank seem to show something entirely
different.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1190335
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: February 25th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
Xerobank wrote:
> Genady. What I openly told you originally explains everything you
> see. Consistency is not an attribute of a liar. What I tell you never
> changes. There is no benefit for you to be misled. Go ahead and lay
> any cards on the table that you like. It will be unfortunate for you
> (more so for me) because everything you claim will all be explained by
> what I told you prior, just like everything else you've brought
> up. What a coincidence, right?
>
> I think most of it stems from you not understanding how MP works/is
> designed. However, you were exposed to them first so it is no
> surprise.
>
> As far as I know, the only involvement is one admin of MP, who brought
> us some code like the IPSpy, some very nice implementations of SSH,
> and turned us on to the previous server mgmt company MeshMX (which was
> recently purchased I *think*). However, the new network won't be using
> MeshMX at all, as we've acquired our own expertise on these matters.
>
> There is another side to your theory that you aren't considering,
> which would make a rational person abandon such a tirade: We don't
> offer the same software. We don't offer the same products. Where is
> their xB Browser? Where is their xB Mail? Where is their tor operation
> at all? Even the character of the corporations are just too
> different. It makes no sense that if they had such a warchest of
> secret weapons at their disposal that they wouldn't deploy them. But
> there is one reason that makes sense: its exactly as I originally told
> you and you've gone off the deep end. Tell you what though...
>
> You know who you remind me of? That crazy conspiracy guy from
> privacy.li, who goes around under pseudonyms trying to inject fear,
> uncertainty, and disinformation. Maybe it's a coincidence.
Just saying you've answered questions and they should be accepted
doesn't explain all the connections. Maybe that one "admin" from
Metropipe is the OWNER? Who knows? You don't say. You DO say "As far
as I know..." that's the only connection. Like you are completely some
outsider with only a passing interest in XeroBank or something. We
know you STARTED the company as TORPARK. In fact, reading through
another thread, I discovered that you say you are NOT the owner of
XeroBank. You certainly were the owner when you called yourself
TORPARK. After the TORPARK/TORRIFY fiasco and you began offering
"Premium Services", the Metropipe connections began to snowball. All
those "coincidences" which I listed in this post of June of '07 are
supposed to be just blown off as "coincidence" (your word - not
mine). And since then, it's been shown that you share servers at the
same company in Germany. I mean, really. You also have the same credit
card merchant/payment processor in DalPay. There are THOUSANDS of
credit card merchants, but you share the same. The list is long - and
they are all in the link above.
Oh, I found this on the Web [
http://archives.seul.org/or/cvs/Dec-2007/msg00173.html ] just the
other day - what's up with this? It says Chatzilla was configured in
a rather...uh...odd way: "IRC autoconnects to ircs://irc.metropipe.net
with user 'xerobank user'"That may be easily explainable, I don't
know, but it's another little something that doesn't smell right.
You asked where their version of email is. Ummm....ever hear of
MailVault.com? Here is a screenshot of WHOIS - look who owns them:
Metropipe.net
http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/46012/2004797452760146133_rs.jpg
And no, Metropipe has never offered a TOR service. But that Xb
machine? You think you were the first? Ever hear of the Metropipe
"Virtual Privacy Machine"? They were the only privacy service to offer
such a thing....until.....the connections with XeroBank became clear
and lo and behold - XeroBank has the "xB Machine!"
As for Privacy.li, all I know is that they are anti-semitic,
foul-mouthed losers who have been known to rip people off using a
variety of names. If they have arrived at some of the same conclusions
that some of us have, that says nothing about me. I don't have
anything that connects me with them at all. Period. David Duke may
agree with George Bush on some things - that doesn't mean there is a
connection. But with Metropipe and XeroBank, we are talking hard
evidence of something a bit more than a "coincidence." Nobody can just
make this stuff up! It's all there for anyone to check and see.
You called my posts a "tirade" and wrote I have "gone off the deep
end." Well, for anybody reading this thread and caring to check my
information, links and sourcing - I think they'll probably conclude
you are on the defensive to try and cover-up things you don't want
known - and people that do this kind of thing, always resort to what?
Yep, shooting the messenger. The facts are all there, it's up to
customers to decide if you are being open and honest with that
looonnggg list of "coincidences."
Oh, and why does it matter? There have been rumors for years (on
alt.privacy and anon-server usenet groups) that Metropipe was a
U.S. government honeypot. Poor customer service, lost tickets, people
having to chase around to get their product working. And as for the
latter, reading this thread - that sounds a lot like XeroBank.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1190386
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: February 25th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
XeroBank wrote:
> Genady,it's as though you selectively read one piece of information,
> but in the same sentence reject the other. I've already explained this
> FUD you've just distributed. And xB Machine is nothing like VPM except
> for the fact they use virtualization. However virtualization has led
> to similar outcomes, and now you see a deluge of VM solutions. Maybe
> they are all MP too. As for MailVault? I know the team of programmers
> that wrote that, and they aren't MP. But the mere fact that we all
> know each other must mean we are colluding and the same person/people,
> yes? Every single thing you've just mentioned I've already addressed,
> and I'm not going to be wasting any more time on you.
>
> ps, that rumor you mentioned about mp was started at, never produced a
> single shred of anything especially when asked, and only continues at,
> privacy dot lie. Another coincidence?
So, Mailvault is not MetroPipe because you know the programmers. Yet,
WHOIS, clearly shows that MailVault is MetroPipe. And you cry FUD?
Your acting like the privacy-providing community is some small
tight-knit group is simply not true, Steve, You know that and I know
that. Trying to use that to explain away your MetroPipe connections
won't wash.
The privacy.li stuff is ridiculous. They are scammers. That we can
agree on. The Metropipe "rumors" have been expressed by many people
long before privacy.li even existed. You are simply smearing the
messenger again, Steve. The Metropipe/XeroBank connection has been
exposed (your explanantions and 'coincidences' just don't
wash).....and all you can do is lash out personally. Shame.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1198758
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: March 7th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
XeroBank wrote:
> I remember I was asked to write a version of Torpark for Opera about 8
> months before OperaTor appeared. I had to decline for a number of
> reasons, not the least of which being that I would be reinventing the
> wheel that was Torpark. At DefCon I gave a presentation with a review
> of it:
Transparency is definitely a problem. By the way, who owns XeroBank?
Names?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1199307
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: March 8th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
XeroBank wrote:
> Genady, I don't know all the board, but the memberships will probably
> be listed on the new website. What difference would it make who owns
> the company?
If you really have to ask that question, you don't '"get it," but I am
guessing you do understand how important it is to know who owns a
company that you are using for privacy and is only worthwhile if you
can trust the company. That's a no-brainer.
My best guess is that it's a good way to dodge the question; otherwise
you would simply answer the question. Is it a secret?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1201776
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: March 12th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
Whose area is it? I don't think we'll be getting an answer to who
profits from XeroBank. This "transparent" company gets that reputation
just because the developer uses Wilders (and their bandwidth) as their
own forum since they don't have one of their own. I don't care who is
coding XeroBank, I care about the money - who owns XeroBank? I
provided examples of how PGP is open about it, Anonymizer is open
about it, COTSE is open about it, but XeroBank - who prides itself on
openness ----- hides the ownership!!
So, pricing, not an unimportant thing -- is not "your area" --whose
area is it? Who OWNS XeroBank?
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http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1202039
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: March 12th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
Jim Verard wrote:
> Genady,
> a whois taken from xB domain gives three names. I don't know if they
> are enough for you:
>
> http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=whois&host=www.xerobank.com
>
> Registrant:
>
> Koenig, Florian
> PO BOX 636
> Charlestown, Nevis
> KN
>
> Domain name: XEROBANK.COM
>
> Administrative Contact:
>
> Topletz, Steve ad...@torrify.com
> TORRIFY LLC
> PO BOX 636
> Charlestown, NEVIS
> KN
> +1.8888677439
>
> Technical Contact:
>
> Herzog, Stefan stefan...@torrify.com
> PO BOX 636
> Charlestown, Nevis
> KN
> +18888677439 x23135
> About what you are discussing, I am confused about this need of
> revealing the identities of who owns XeroBank. If this is a anonymous
> company, why they will release their personal informations, the names
> of the real people who owns the company? They should be kept in the
> dark to avoid others to bring this service down.
>
> Don't you think if they were so open and transparent, they will still
> be here today? I don't think this is the real issue here. Either you
> trust them, or not. What if they were so transparent and in the end
> you find out all their personal info was not true?
We don't need to know who is behind of Tor to trust them. Sure they
are not perfect but usually are very much used every day.
TOR is a bad example. Truecrypt would be a bad example. These are free
applications. XeroBank is a commercial service - a for-profit
company. I think users should know who is behind it and check it out
all they want. As the poster above you said, it is silly for them to
expect trust just because they ask for it. Jessme (good post by the
way) also mentioned Steganos. Well, I can check these guys out if I so
choose: https://www.steganos.com/us/company/team/ I had previously
mentioned Anonymizer, PGP, COTSE and others - they are all very
upfront. XeroBank is asking for trust without revealing who they
are. We hear from Steve here at Wilders - what does that tell us? In
the WHOIS you listed, he is listed as the administrative contact, in
an interview he gave a month or so back to a magazine he was
identified as a "consultant." As for the other two names in the WHOIS,
I have no idea who they are.
You say they are an "anonymous company", well, I agree, they certainly
are. But you are talking about the service they provide. I don't quite
understand, if they are needing to "hide" as you suggest then why is
Steve Topletz here? He's easy enough to track down - he's in real
estate in Dallas, TX according to Google. But, he says he's just a
member of the "team", a "consultant", the "administrator" -- pick the
description/title-of-the-day.
I was also amused by his self-conducted comparisons with other
VPNs. Did you see who rated the best? XeroBank and - yep - there's
that name again: Metropipe! Was I surprised?
Too many unanswered questions.
[XeroBank's comparison:
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1201104 ]
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http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1202066
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: March 12th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
XeroBank wrote:
> I think if you find out who the team players are, you're going to be
> crestfallen that it turned out to be such great guys. But I have faith
> in you, I know the witch hunt will continue to the ends of logic, and
> beyond reason. Personally, I don't care if the owner is Santa Clause,
> Satan, or Shakira because they're locked out of all compromising data,
> and they're letting us build the most amazing anonymity network on the
> planet.
Witchhunt? By wanting to know who it is that is asking us to TRUST
them with our privacy and surfing habits?
You only respond with more marketing spin, Steve. All I hear is they,
they, they. Well.....who the hell is "they"?
It is obvious you have much to hide.
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http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1202114
From: Genady Prishnikov
Date: March 12th, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
XeroBank wrote:
> Genady, you aren't trusting "they". They don't have access. They don't
> manage the privacy practices or network. You're trusting me and the
> other team members, so I fail to see your point.
Oh...They don't have access...they just own the company. I see.
But, while you're on the subject of "team members," just who are they?
I'm not sure what to think. Maybe this IS a one-man show and you're
trying to pretend otherwise. Maybe you're a honeypot for the
government. Maybe you're a honeypot for __________. Can't you see the
problem? Everyone is left to wonder just who XeroBank is; and without
your being open and transparent, people can say and think anything
they want. Hence, you've got people like me who are wondering what the
secrecy is all about.
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http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1189492
From: Paranoid2000
Date: February 23rd, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone tried XeroBank (formerly Torrify)
XeroBank wrote:
> ...those people need to be surfing at 20kbps using Tor with all the
> scum.
Aw gee...thanks.
Nomen Nescio
> Steve, As far as...
I think Steve turned tail and ran, just like the other
cough-anonymity-cough selling services that even try to argue here.
Their position is untenable and as soon as they realize they aren't
arguing with newbies who can be baffled by bullshit they run. Add Steve
to the list:
Brave Sir Steve ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("no!")
Yes, brave Sir Steve turned about
("I didn't!")
And gallantly he chickened out.
****Bravely**** taking ("I never did!") to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
("all lies!")
Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Steve!
("I never!")