Just wondering if this is the right place to post this
TishanCasey R
thing, and were wondering if anyone had any suggestions for poly-
dating sites or meeting people that are reputable. How did you meet
your families? We live in Tennessee and are looking for our third, but
it's difficult I think to find poly people. It's not like they wear
banners ( and heaven forbid that ever happens) Any tips or
suggestions? We are very excited to be beging this journey with our
cherished third!
T&C
Serene Vannoy
> Hey everyone. My husband and I are new to the whole internet search
> thing, and were wondering if anyone had any suggestions for poly-
> dating sites or meeting people that are reputable.
I've heard good things about polymatchmaker.com, and have some partners
who had profiles there, but I've never used it. I have used okcupid.com,
though, and it's very poly-friendly, and I have met some really great
people there. I have friends who've met long-term partners there.
> How did you meet
> your families?
I met Guy here, on alt.poly. I met James when he searched for local
poly atheist women on LiveJournal.
> We live in Tennessee and are looking for our third, but
> it's difficult I think to find poly people. It's not like they wear
> banners ( and heaven forbid that ever happens) Any tips or
> suggestions? We are very excited to be beging this journey with our
> cherished third!
Just a heads-up: some people don't want to be referred to as anyone's
"third", as though they're filling some kind of pre-ordained slot you've
picked out for them, that doesn't take into account what shape of
relationship *they* might be seeking.
I recommend getting to know polyfolk as people and see if their desires
mesh with yours, rather than deciding on your desires and trying to find
people to fit into them.
Serene
--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com
"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
Phoenix
> Hey everyone. My husband and I are new to the whole internet search
> thing, and were wondering if anyone had any suggestions for poly-
> dating sites or meeting people that are reputable. How did you meet
> your families?
Hi, and welcome to alt.poly! As a heads up, we discourage
personal ads here...I did not read your post as a personal, but
just thought I should mention it.
You have two questions in your post. For the first, I have found
that polymatchmaker.com (specifically aimed at poly people) and
okcupid.com (not specifically aimed at poly folks but
poly-tolerant if not actively poly-friendly), plus local mailing
lists on places like yahoogroups to be good resources.
As to how I met my family, I met various parts of them in various
ways. Some I've met at in-person gatherings of electronic
communities (alt.polycon(1) and alterkon(2)). One TOCOTOX was the
girlfriend of one of my first husband's friends and I met her
when we ran into them on the streets of Boston and all started
seeing each other in various combinations and permutations. (Ah,
youth....so wasted on the young...) Others have been through *A
meetings, dating sites, and SF conventions. So....I don't think
there's a big trend going on, except most of my sweeties are
electronically pretty savvy.
Good luck in your search! and be aware that you may be lookin'
for a unicorn...
(1): gatherings of denizens of alt.polyamory(3), held fairly
regularly and at various places around the continent and even on
other continents so we all get a chance to attend.
(2): west coast and east coast annual gatherings of the members
of the old Alternates(4) mailing list; I hosted the west coast
ones and thus had a good shot at pick of the litter :-)
(3): When IS the next alt.polycon anyway? and where? I know, I
know, google it...but I'd rather read it here.
(4): Back in the day, a discussion mailing list for people of
"alternative sexuality"...bisexual, polyamorous, kinky, furry, etc.
--
Deborah
phoenixpdx.livejournal.com
"...I beat you with the pathetic fallacy stick of dualism" --Piglet
Aahz Maruch
Phoenix <drup...@clearspringlabs.com> wrote:
>
>(3): When IS the next alt.polycon anyway? and where? I know, I
>know, google it...but I'd rather read it here.
There isn't one. Wanna help organize one? ;->
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
"In the fields of observation chance favors only the prepared mind."
--Louis Pasteur
Phoenix
> In article <J76dne_4cP8KY6bX...@pdx.net>,
> Phoenix <drup...@clearspringlabs.com> wrote:
>> (3): When IS the next alt.polycon anyway? and where? I know, I
>> know, google it...but I'd rather read it here.
>
> There isn't one. Wanna help organize one? ;->
Well, huh.
A week ago I would have said "no, I'm already badly overbooked
and work is incredibly stressful."
Yesterday I was given the option of 30 more days of stress and
then being fired with nothing...or severance.
I'm negotiating the severance. So suddenly I have some more time.
Except I also want to spend a LOT of time to get the facilities
for www.preservation-hall.org going and get funding.
So....maybe? I'm good at organizing, that's for sure. But it
would help to be paid. <sigh>
Ed
news:FdidnZpgBOh3g6HX...@pdx.net:
> Aahz Maruch wrote:
>> In article <J76dne_4cP8KY6bX...@pdx.net>,
>> Phoenix <drup...@clearspringlabs.com> wrote:
>>> (3): When IS the next alt.polycon anyway? and where? I know, I
>>> know, google it...but I'd rather read it here.
>>
>> There isn't one. Wanna help organize one? ;->
>
> Well, huh.
>
> A week ago I would have said "no, I'm already badly overbooked
> and work is incredibly stressful."
>
> Yesterday I was given the option of 30 more days of stress and
> then being fired with nothing...or severance.
>
> I'm negotiating the severance. So suddenly I have some more time.
>
> Except I also want to spend a LOT of time to get the facilities
> for www.preservation-hall.org going and get funding.
>
> So....maybe? I'm good at organizing, that's for sure. But it
> would help to be paid. <sigh>
>
Oh my! I hope that bodes well and the opportunities that present
themselves make what looks like a negative be a postive.
--
Ed (who believes every negative can be turned into an opportunity)
Pat Kight
> Yesterday I was given the option of 30 more days of stress and
> then being fired with nothing...or severance.
>
> I'm negotiating the severance. So suddenly I have some more time.
Well, crap. That's a helluva way to wind up with free time on your hands.
I hope you get the chance to spend some of it doing things you enjoy and
wouldn't otherwise have time to do, though.
--
Pat Kight
Phoenix
> Phoenix wrote:
>
>> Yesterday I was given the option of 30 more days of stress and
>> then being fired with nothing...or severance.
>>
>> I'm negotiating the severance. So suddenly I have some more time.
>
> Well, crap. That's a helluva way to wind up with free time on your hands.
Thanks. I think so too. Although I must say, I've gone from "I
*love* my job" to "This place sucks farts off dead hedgehogs" in
a space of about six months. Sigh. I'm glad to get out.
Oh, and severance? 6 weeks max, and a draconian release that
takes away my right to sue for anything, my ability to talk to
ANYone about the company or the people, my right to ever ever
ever EVER work their again, and the right to <ahem> talk about
the terms of the contract.
Arg. Have asked a lawyer to look it over for me.
> I hope you get the chance to spend some of it doing things you enjoy and
> wouldn't otherwise have time to do, though.
So do I. Today I slept in. That was nice...
Stef
Phoenix <drup...@clearspringlabs.com> wrote:
>Oh, and severance? 6 weeks max, and a draconian release that
>takes away my right to sue for anything, my ability to talk to
>ANYone about the company or the people, my right to ever ever
>ever EVER work their again, and the right to <ahem> talk about
>the terms of the contract.
>
>Arg. Have asked a lawyer to look it over for me.
If the lawyer says it's bullshit, I know someone who had to sign a
similar agreement who might be interested to know that.
--
Stef ** st...@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
The Anarchists' anthem...consists of 365 raspberries blown in very quick
succession to the tune of "Camptown Races." Nobody has to stand up for
it, nobody has to listen to it, and, even better, nobody has to play it.
-- Mike Harding, "The Armchair Anarchist's Almanac"
Steve Pope
>Yesterday I was given the option of 30 more days of stress and
>then being fired with nothing...or severance.
>I'm negotiating the severance. So suddenly I have some more time.
>Except I also want to spend a LOT of time to get the facilities
>for www.preservation-hall.org going and get funding.
>So....maybe? I'm good at organizing, that's for sure. But it
>would help to be paid. <sigh>
Sorry to learn about the sudden lack of paying work; I do
hope it's very termporary.
Steve
Steve Pope
>Oh, and severance? 6 weeks max, and a draconian release that
>takes away my right to sue for anything, my ability to talk to
>ANYone about the company or the people, my right to ever ever
>ever EVER work their again, and the right to <ahem> talk about
>the terms of the contract.
I third one of these -- the right to ever work there again --
sounds wonky. You'd think that a future job offer from them
would supercede such a clause, so I wonder why it's in there?
The rest is (sadly) pretty standard.
Steve
Ruth Anne
> Pat Kight wrote:
>> Phoenix wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday I was given the option of 30 more days of stress and
>>> then being fired with nothing...or severance.
>>>
>>> I'm negotiating the severance. So suddenly I have some more time.
>>
>> Well, crap. That's a helluva way to wind up with free time on your hands.
>
> Thanks. I think so too. Although I must say, I've gone from "I *love* my job"
> to "This place sucks farts off dead hedgehogs" in a space of about six
> months. Sigh. I'm glad to get out.
>
> Oh, and severance? 6 weeks max, and a draconian release that takes away my
> right to sue for anything, my ability to talk to ANYone about the company or
> the people, my right to ever ever ever EVER work their again, and the right
> to <ahem> talk about the terms of the contract.
>
> Arg. Have asked a lawyer to look it over for me.
I had a severance agreement similar to that when I got laid off in
2003. I did talk to a lawyer about it. She told me it was pretty
standard. Mine was slightly different in that it didn't say that I
could never work there again, but I could never APPLY to work there
again. And I only got 3 weeks severance.
I eneded up working there again as a contractor, then as an employee
(they offered; I did not apply) and as a contactor again.
--Ruth Anne
Steve Pope
>I had a severance agreement similar to that when I got laid off in
>2003. I did talk to a lawyer about it. She told me it was pretty
>standard. Mine was slightly different in that it didn't say that I
>could never work there again, but I could never APPLY to work there
>again.
Now that's strange. I guess the idea is you cannot sneak back
in unnoticed, perhaps, say by applying to a different department.
Steve
Miche
spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
Probably. It's an odd one -- Ruth Anne can't apply for a job there
again, but there's nothing stopping someone from inside the organisation
from hiring her as a consultant.
Miche
--
Electricians do it in three phases
Ed
@blue.rahul.net:
I guess, but, really, why would anyone in legal care? Unless someone is
fired for cause (in which case, there would not likely be any
severance), you would think they would happy to have someone back if
there was a need again in the future.
--
Ed
Pat Kight
I suspect it's a case of one-size-fits-all severance agreements that get
written by the legal departments to ensure that everyone gets treated
the same way (less chance of a successful wrongful-dismissal lawsuit
that way). It probably also saves time for managers and HR departments
if everybody gets the same take-it-or-leave-it offer.
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Steve Pope
>spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote in news:h1jk1b$jdo$1
[ Exit agree requires never applying for work again ]
>> Now that's strange. I guess the idea is you cannot sneak back
>> in unnoticed, perhaps, say by applying to a different department.
>I guess, but, really, why would anyone in legal care? Unless someone is
>fired for cause (in which case, there would not likely be any
>severance), you would think they would happy to have someone back if
>there was a need again in the future.
One possibility is some jurisdictions do not allow an employee
to waive their right to sue for employment discrimination. In
such a jurisdiction, maybe the former employee could re-apply, get
rejected, and pursue legal action even if they signed an
agreement not to pursue legal action...
S.
866013149e
>(3): When IS the next alt.polycon anyway? and where? I know, I
>know, google it...but I'd rather read it here.
Where could one be held to attract a good turnout? This must be the
worst economy since before World War II.
I imagine there must be a lot of hotels in various places that would
offer good deals to get the business, but would anyone come?
umar
Lissa
news:IridnQ__fMzbZd_X...@speakeasy.net...
I'm at the point that if it isn't held within about an 8 hour drive of
Phoenix, I can't see myself being able to get there. The travel
budget doesn't allow air fare. Maybe Salt Lake on the outside
range of what is doable for me.
-Lissa
Tangible Daydreams
www.tangibledaydreams.etsy.com
Aqua
> "866013149e" <86601...@hippogryph.com> wrote in message
> news:IridnQ__fMzbZd_X...@speakeasy.net...
>> Phoenix <drup...@clearspringlabs.com> writes:
>>
>>> (3): When IS the next alt.polycon anyway? and where? I know, I
>>> know, google it...but I'd rather read it here.
>>
>> Where could one be held to attract a good turnout? This must be the
>> worst economy since before World War II.
>>
>> I imagine there must be a lot of hotels in various places that would
>> offer good deals to get the business, but would anyone come?
>
> Phoenix, I can't see myself being able to get there. The travel
> budget doesn't allow air fare. Maybe Salt Lake on the outside
> range of what is doable for me.
Ditto, in the sense that I'm even less likely to have the money, time
and energy to do an intercontinental plane flight.
Aqua
Pat Kight
I wonder if this might be a year to consider a bunch of regional
mini-cons or alt.polyflocks, all on the same weekend? Mini in terms of
size, cost and travel distance, and in programming - perhaps a single
discussion panel, a shared meal at someone's house, an overnight stay in
a cheap motel? Possibilities include using our friend the Internet to
connect the groups with each other (aren't there some cheap/free Web
conferencing services out there?) ...
(I'm not at this point offering to host/organize such a thing, but I
might, depending on when/where...)
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Piglet
>I wonder if this might be a year to consider a bunch of regional
>mini-cons or alt.polyflocks, all on the same weekend? Mini in terms of
>size, cost and travel distance, and in programming - perhaps a single
>discussion panel, a shared meal at someone's house, an overnight stay in
>a cheap motel? Possibilities include using our friend the Internet to
>connect the groups with each other (aren't there some cheap/free Web
>conferencing services out there?) ...
We got video iChat, for one. I love this idea!
I was talking to the boy this morning about how I thought this was an
indicator of the economic crisis -- it's been over a decade (?) that
we've had the next con (or 2) scheduled before the current one
happens. And there have always been people who couldn't come for
economic reasons, but a) the rest of us have been able to assist and
b) enough of us have been able to come that we had a critical mass.
--
Piglet, pig...@piglet.org
"That may be YOUR point. MY point is to live each moment so as
to maximize the amount of complaining that can be done about said
moment, after the fact. It's not as easy as it looks." --jankplus
Louise
wrote:
>Pat Kight <kig...@peak.org>, in article <DvudnQr3NKNlFN7X...@scnresearch.com>, dixit:
>>I wonder if this might be a year to consider a bunch of regional
>>mini-cons or alt.polyflocks, all on the same weekend? Mini in terms of
>>size, cost and travel distance, and in programming - perhaps a single
>>discussion panel, a shared meal at someone's house, an overnight stay in
>>a cheap motel? Possibilities include using our friend the Internet to
>>connect the groups with each other (aren't there some cheap/free Web
>>conferencing services out there?) ...
>
>We got video iChat, for one. I love this idea!
That could be a lot of fun! I wonder how long a planning time would
be the optimum? Anyone for Edmonton?
>I was talking to the boy this morning about how I thought this was an
>indicator of the economic crisis -- it's been over a decade (?) that
>we've had the next con (or 2) scheduled before the current one
>happens. And there have always been people who couldn't come for
>economic reasons, but a) the rest of us have been able to assist and
>b) enough of us have been able to come that we had a critical mass.
I was thinking about that stuff too. The economic crisis seems to be
more severe in the USA than in the rest of the world, and a large
proportion of usual alt.polycon attendees (and newsgroup participants)
are in the USA. But also, less newsgroup traffic, fewer newbies in
general although possibly the same proportion of newbies who stick
around, a smaller pool of potential attendees?
I sort of see alt.polycons and the newsgroup both as serving two
functions (in my life, at least). They are social gatherings of
semi-permeable groups of friends. And they are places to discuss
polyamory. I value both. But I wonder whether the second function
tends to become less important for people who have been in the
community for a while.
Louise
Phoenix
> I wonder if this might be a year to consider a bunch of regional
> mini-cons or alt.polyflocks, all on the same weekend? Mini in terms of
> size, cost and travel distance, and in programming - perhaps a single
> discussion panel, a shared meal at someone's house, an overnight stay in
> a cheap motel? Possibilities include using our friend the Internet to
> connect the groups with each other (aren't there some cheap/free Web
> conferencing services out there?) ...
I rather like this concept!
> (I'm not at this point offering to host/organize such a thing, but I
> might, depending on when/where...)
I'd probably be happy to help, as long as it isn't on July 17-19
or Labor Day weekend. Or, probably anywhere around Sept 13 (my
son's birthday).
--
Deborah
phoenixpdx.livejournal.com
very busy for someone who is unemployed
Aqua
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:11:58 +0000 (UTC), pig...@panix.com (Piglet)
> wrote:
>
>> Pat Kight <kig...@peak.org>, in article <DvudnQr3NKNlFN7X...@scnresearch.com>, dixit:
>>> I wonder if this might be a year to consider a bunch of regional
>>> mini-cons or alt.polyflocks, all on the same weekend? Mini in terms of
>>> size, cost and travel distance, and in programming - perhaps a single
>>> discussion panel, a shared meal at someone's house, an overnight stay in
>>> a cheap motel? Possibilities include using our friend the Internet to
>>> connect the groups with each other (aren't there some cheap/free Web
>>> conferencing services out there?) ...
>> We got video iChat, for one. I love this idea!
>
> That could be a lot of fun! I wonder how long a planning time would
> be the optimum? Anyone for Edmonton?
I think I'm still 1000 miles away from the nearest other regulars (Teal,
Ruth L., with Miche yet further away) (do I get a prize for most
isolated?) so I'm likely to be participating solely via video
something-or-other (and this laptop does have a camera eye staring at me
I don't think I've used). But that would be fun. Especially if I had a
cat or two on my lap, which tends to happen atm, being winter.
I could also persuade TOILW to show zir face, although I doubt zie'd be
the court jester of proceedings, the way zie was at NZ alt.polycon.
> I sort of see alt.polycons and the newsgroup both as serving two
> functions (in my life, at least). They are social gatherings of
> semi-permeable groups of friends. And they are places to discuss
> polyamory. I value both. But I wonder whether the second function
> tends to become less important for people who have been in the
> community for a while.
Ditto on both. In fact, I'm very happy I lurked on alt.poly when I did
because I'm not sure I've learnt much about polyamory during the time
I've been a participant. But I like the dynamics of this newsgroup* as
a social space, and I like socialising with people who take not just
poly relationships for granted, but even the idea that successful
monogamous relationships are individually configured.
*I was going to say "the dynamics of newsgroups" but I'm increasingly
convinced that I don't actually like the default dynamics of newsgroups
and that it takes active work and policing by participants to create the
kind of space we have here on alt.poly. Which is why I'm increasingly
vocal about doing that policing myself here.
Aqua
Aahz Maruch
Aqua <aq...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>
>Ditto on both. In fact, I'm very happy I lurked on alt.poly when I did
>because I'm not sure I've learnt much about polyamory during the time
>I've been a participant. But I like the dynamics of this newsgroup* as
>a social space, and I like socialising with people who take not just
>poly relationships for granted, but even the idea that successful
>monogamous relationships are individually configured.
>
>*I was going to say "the dynamics of newsgroups" but I'm increasingly
>convinced that I don't actually like the default dynamics of newsgroups
>and that it takes active work and policing by participants to create the
>kind of space we have here on alt.poly. Which is why I'm increasingly
>vocal about doing that policing myself here.
<cough> A-fucking-men <cough>
OTOH, it's a bit tricky: sometimes the policing consists of trying to get
other newsgroup regulars to STOP RESPONDING TO THE TROLLS.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Ben Franklin
Kai Jones
>In article <t4gdh6-...@mail-news.jamver.id.au>,
>Aqua <aq...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>
>>Ditto on both. In fact, I'm very happy I lurked on alt.poly when I did
>>because I'm not sure I've learnt much about polyamory during the time
>>I've been a participant. But I like the dynamics of this newsgroup* as
>>a social space, and I like socialising with people who take not just
>>poly relationships for granted, but even the idea that successful
>>monogamous relationships are individually configured.
>>
>>*I was going to say "the dynamics of newsgroups" but I'm increasingly
>>convinced that I don't actually like the default dynamics of newsgroups
>>and that it takes active work and policing by participants to create the
>>kind of space we have here on alt.poly. Which is why I'm increasingly
>>vocal about doing that policing myself here.
>
><cough> A-fucking-men <cough>
>
>OTOH, it's a bit tricky: sometimes the policing consists of trying to get
>other newsgroup regulars to STOP RESPONDING TO THE TROLLS.
The problem is we don't all pick the same people to label trolls.
--
Kai Jones sni...@panix.com
Smartass by nurture as well as nature. Oh yeah, and I'm contrary, too.
Todd Michel McComb
Kai Jones <sni...@panix.com> wrote:
>The problem is we don't all pick the same people to label trolls.
I come back to the thought "you can't pick your friends" sometimes.
Piglet
Sure you can! It's your riend's nose you can't pick.
Pat Kight
> OTOH, it's a bit tricky: sometimes the policing consists of trying to get
> other newsgroup regulars to STOP RESPONDING TO THE TROLLS.
Have you noticed that in the most recent visit by our most notorious
troll, I managed to restrain myself?
I mean, old dogs *can* learn new tricks.
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Pat Kight
the amount of time that normally happens between apcs, which would put
it around, what, February or March? (I've kind of lost track).
Which happens to be a time of year when I'm usually in need of some
socializing...
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Phoenix
Late February could be pretty good. We have a big house, but are
generally considered "far away from EVERYthing"...I wonder if I
could entice my long-distances sweeties to come up for it, should
we end up scheduling something? hmmmmm
Steve Pope
>Where could one be held to attract a good turnout? This must be the
>worst economy since before World War II.
Somewhere with good public transportation, and near an
airport served by one or more discount airlines, would
seem the best bet.
Steve
Stef
*offers cookie*
--
Stef ** st...@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
I don't think I'm an extremist, I just think I'm early. -- Marilyn Wann,
_Fat!So?_ author
Irfon-Kim Ahmad
> We got video iChat, for one. I love this idea!
I think we should rule out applications that only run on Macs, despite
me having one. :) Skype could work, though. I've never tried a
multi-person Skype conference.
> I was talking to the boy this morning about how I thought this was an
> indicator of the economic crisis -- it's been over a decade (?) that
> we've had the next con (or 2) scheduled before the current one
> happens. And there have always been people who couldn't come for
> economic reasons, but a) the rest of us have been able to assist and
> b) enough of us have been able to come that we had a critical mass.
I don't know. While I certainly think it's *exacerbated* by the
economy, I think that alt.polycons had been sort of generally winding
down anyway. At least, that was the sense I'd gotten. I don't have
actual attendance numbers for all the alt.polycons on-hand.
Aqua
> Piglet <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> We got video iChat, for one. I love this idea!
>
> I think we should rule out applications that only run on Macs, despite
> me having one. :) Skype could work, though. I've never tried a
> multi-person Skype conference.
So it'd be a geek challenge as well :-).
>> I was talking to the boy this morning about how I thought this was an
>> indicator of the economic crisis -- it's been over a decade (?) that
>> we've had the next con (or 2) scheduled before the current one
>> happens. And there have always been people who couldn't come for
>> economic reasons, but a) the rest of us have been able to assist and
>> b) enough of us have been able to come that we had a critical mass.
>
> I don't know. While I certainly think it's *exacerbated* by the
> economy, I think that alt.polycons had been sort of generally winding
> down anyway. At least, that was the sense I'd gotten. I don't have
> actual attendance numbers for all the alt.polycons on-hand.
Yes, that's my impression. alt.polycons have been finding a little less
enthusiasm for a while, and the economy is just coinciding to make the
effect dramatic and noticeable.
Aqua
866013149e
Louise <onlyl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I was thinking about that stuff too. The economic crisis seems to be
>more severe in the USA than in the rest of the world, and a large
>proportion of usual alt.polycon attendees (and newsgroup participants)
>are in the USA. But also, less newsgroup traffic, fewer newbies in
>general although possibly the same proportion of newbies who stick
>around, a smaller pool of potential attendees?
I would be in favor of advertising the con not only to current
alt.poly readers but also to attendees of past apc's, via LJ and
or DW.
>I sort of see alt.polycons and the newsgroup both as serving two
>functions (in my life, at least). They are social gatherings of
>semi-permeable groups of friends. And they are places to discuss
>polyamory. I value both. But I wonder whether the second function
>tends to become less important for people who have been in the
>community for a while.
I can see how it might, especially if people in panels are telling
essentially the same stories to folks who have already heard and
discussed them.
umar
Todd Michel McComb
>Sure you can! It's your riend's nose you can't pick.
Well that's a fun quip, but I'm not sure which of those is really
easier.
Piglet
I'm curious now. You've mentioned a couple of times that you can't
pick your friends. Um, why the hell not?
Seems to me that's the one thing you *can* pick, as an adult.
Voluntary association.
Sure, you can't force someone to be friends with you, all you can do
is cultivate them. But you get to pick who to cultivate. And you get
to pick the contexts in which to immerse yourself.
So how do you see it?
Irfon-Kim Ahmad
> Irfon-Kim Ahmad wrote:
>> Piglet <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We got video iChat, for one. I love this idea!
>>
>> I think we should rule out applications that only run on Macs, despite
>> me having one. :) Skype could work, though. I've never tried a
>> multi-person Skype conference.
>
> So it'd be a geek challenge as well :-).
:) Hopefully not! (I should add that I missed the word "video" above
-- I do multi-person Skype audio calls all the time and it works quite
well.)
Irfon-Kim Ahmad
> mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb), in article <h291tq$1efo$1...@agricola.medieval.org>, dixit:
>>In article <h219jv$r5g$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Piglet <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>Sure you can! It's your riend's nose you can't pick.
>
>>Well that's a fun quip, but I'm not sure which of those is really
>>easier.
>
> I'm curious now. You've mentioned a couple of times that you can't
> pick your friends. Um, why the hell not?
>
> Seems to me that's the one thing you *can* pick, as an adult.
> Voluntary association.
>
> Sure, you can't force someone to be friends with you, all you can do
> is cultivate them. But you get to pick who to cultivate. And you get
> to pick the contexts in which to immerse yourself.
>
> So how do you see it?
I can see where that would be best viewed as not so much picking your
friends as picking your not-friends (because of the part where you can't
make someone be your friend -- you can only choose who not to be friends
with).
David Weinshenker
So can you not-pick your not-friend's not-nose?
-dave w
Serene Vannoy
> mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb), in article <h291tq$1efo$1...@agricola.medieval.org>, dixit:
>> In article <h219jv$r5g$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Piglet <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Sure you can! It's your riend's nose you can't pick.
>
>> Well that's a fun quip, but I'm not sure which of those is really
>> easier.
>
> I'm curious now. You've mentioned a couple of times that you can't
> pick your friends. Um, why the hell not?
>
> Seems to me that's the one thing you *can* pick, as an adult.
> Voluntary association.
Correct. And since I have a definition of "family" that has little to do
with blood ties, I also choose my family. I do understand that it
doesn't work that way for everyone.
>
> Sure, you can't force someone to be friends with you, all you can do
> is cultivate them. But you get to pick who to cultivate. And you get
> to pick the contexts in which to immerse yourself.
>
> So how do you see it?
I'm not Todd, but I think I see it the way you do.
Serene
--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com
"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
Piglet
>Piglet wrote:
>> I'm curious now. You've mentioned a couple of times that you can't
>> pick your friends. Um, why the hell not?
>> Seems to me that's the one thing you *can* pick, as an adult.
>> Voluntary association.
>Correct. And since I have a definition of "family" that has little to do
>with blood ties, I also choose my family. I do understand that it
>doesn't work that way for everyone.
I thought about family while I was composing that. I'm very much on
the 'pick my family' continuum, as much as I am on the 'some family
I'm stuck with' continuum.
Piglet
>Irfon-Kim Ahmad wrote:
>>>> In article <h219jv$r5g$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Piglet
><pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sure you can! It's your riend's nose you can't pick.
>> I can see where that would be best viewed as not so much picking your
>> friends as picking your not-friends (because of the part where you can't
>> make someone be your friend -- you can only choose who not to be friends
>> with).
>So can you not-pick your not-friend's not-nose?
'S not hard!
Aahz Maruch
>David Weinshenker <daz...@earthlink.net>, in article <h2b0ru$7lt$1...@aioe.org>, dixit:
>>
>
>'S not hard!
Booger bars! Tastes fattening, but it's snot!
Aqua
> mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb), in article <h291tq$1efo$1...@agricola.medieval.org>, dixit:
>> In article <h219jv$r5g$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Piglet <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Sure you can! It's your riend's nose you can't pick.
>
>> Well that's a fun quip, but I'm not sure which of those is really
>> easier.
>
> I'm curious now. You've mentioned a couple of times that you can't
> pick your friends. Um, why the hell not?
>
> Seems to me that's the one thing you *can* pick, as an adult.
> Voluntary association.
>
> Sure, you can't force someone to be friends with you, all you can do
> is cultivate them. But you get to pick who to cultivate. And you get
> to pick the contexts in which to immerse yourself.
When I'm functioning well, I agree with you completely, and beyond that:
for example recently I've become a lot more aware of my own racism, and
trying to work on that, and in the process of working on that, becoming
less comfortable around some people and more interested in what other
people are saying (on LJ and DW in this case). And there's what feels
like a very natural shift in which LJ/DW I am most interested in reading
and commenting on, and thus shift in how I see my "circle".
I assume similar things tend to happen in the physical world, but I'm
more awkward there, and it's not as easy to turn "friend mentioning
another friend saying something worthwhile" into "friend with that other
person" as it is to turn "LJ/DW'er mentioning another LJ/DW'ers post"
into "another LJ/DW'er I am reading and commenting on" (but I do note
that that other person has no reason to think well of me just because
I'm reading and commenting - i.e. you can't force them to be friends
with you).
In my not-functioning-so-well times, and particularly noticing social
dynamics in the flesh among geeks (that I've known in the flesh), there
can be a sense of inevitableness - that making friends is so hard, that
one needs friends to interact with so badly, that once you're actually
accepted in some group, that's it, you'll have to take them as they are,
even they must be who you deserve to be friends with.
And certainly the bit I dislike most about my fluid and evolving
electronic social sphere is how most of it is on other continents, let
alone in other cities, and not suitable for inviting around for knitting
night. (You don't need to be able to knit! We turned a non-crafter
into a crocheting dynamo :-)
Aqua
Serene Vannoy
> Serene Vannoy <ser...@serenepages.org>, in article <7asfitF...@mid.individual.net>, dixit:
>> Piglet wrote:
>>> I'm curious now. You've mentioned a couple of times that you can't
>>> pick your friends. Um, why the hell not?
>
>>> Seems to me that's the one thing you *can* pick, as an adult.
>>> Voluntary association.
>
>> Correct. And since I have a definition of "family" that has little to do
>> with blood ties, I also choose my family. I do understand that it
>> doesn't work that way for everyone.
>
> I thought about family while I was composing that. I'm very much on
> the 'pick my family' continuum, as much as I am on the 'some family
> I'm stuck with' continuum.
Yeah. The only family member I feel "stuck with" is the one who spawned
my Munchkins, but the day the younger one turns 18, I will unstick myself.
Serene Vannoy
> David Weinshenker <daz...@earthlink.net>, in article <h2b0ru$7lt$1...@aioe.org>, dixit:
>> So can you not-pick your not-friend's not-nose?
>
> 'S not hard!
*groan* :-)
Todd Michel McComb
>I'm curious now. You've mentioned a couple of times that you can't
>pick your friends. Um, why the hell not?
I guess I'm not very good at rejecting people. I will socialize
with people because no one else likes them, for instance. A lot
of times, I wonder about my friends... I can't say I particularly
like some of them, but we're together for whatever the reasons
happen to be, and I go with the flow on that. The reasons I end
up being friends with people seem to be very random indeed, and I
am not seeing where "picking" has come into play.
Todd Michel McComb
Aqua <aq...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>for example recently I've become a lot more aware of my own racism,
>and trying to work on that, and in the process of working on that,
>becoming less comfortable around some people and more interested
>in what other people are saying
I do agree that it can be very difficult to be around certain people
when one is trying to work on something that doesn't mesh well with
them. I have also found that once one is past certain elements of
the "working on" then that discomfort might pass too, even if how
one interacts has changed.
>In my not-functioning-so-well times, and particularly noticing social
>dynamics in the flesh among geeks (that I've known in the flesh), there
>can be a sense of inevitableness - that making friends is so hard, that
>one needs friends to interact with so badly, that once you're actually
>accepted in some group, that's it, you'll have to take them as they are,
>even they must be who you deserve to be friends with.
I am not going to claim to be very well-functioning in a lot of ways.
I am an extrovert, though, and will go out and talk to strangers, so I
don't think this particular observation applies to me.
I did appreciate your post, though.
Stef
You say you socialize with people because no one else likes them...that
suggests you are making a choice.
Some choices are not necessarily fully conscious, but they are still
choices. (One could also choose to make them more conscious, or to
consciously examine the ways they count as choices.)
I think it's perfectly find to go with the flow as far as friendships
are concerned, mind. I just don't know that it is accurate to describe
that as "I *can't* pick my friends."
--
Stef ** st...@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
[Punk bands were] as if a troop of ghosts had laid mines across the
field of modern-day pop. If you were lucky, you stepped on those mines,
and their explosion could be epiphanies that might change your life. --
Mikal Gilmore, _Night Beat: A Shadow History of Rock & Roll_
Irfon-Kim Ahmad
I have a co-worker like that, who seems to actively hate most of his
friends, and sort of vaguely tolerate many of the rest. He tells
stories often in which he identifies people as "his best friend," and
talks about them in ways that make it clear that he despises them and
has no respect for them. I gather that in a lot of cases, friendship is
dictated by proximity only and strength of friendship is about how long
you've known that person.
The rest of us are kind of baffled and often ask him why he hangs out
with these people and he generally has no response.
I think for most people, if you really don't like someone, you just stop
hanging around them. This doesn't always involve an explicit rejection
-- typically you just don't go to their events or to wherever you see
them and eventually the connection just sort of whithers away.
Louise
Yeah, that view of friendship confuses me too. All I could think of
to explain identifying people one doesn't like as friends is the
situation where the people were part of a well-linked social group,
such that you usually saw them at group social events and that not
inviting them to your events or not going to events where they were
going to be would basically mean re-evaluating your whole social life.
I'm part of such a group these days, but there isn't anyone in it that
I don't like, fortunately. I don't think I'd say "friend"; I'd say
"a persson in my group of friends / social group" though. (Well, I
started by calling them my "hand-me-down friends", because I started
hanging around with them when I hadn't really been here long enough to
make friends of my own.)
Louise
Aahz Maruch
That's one reason why I started making the distinction between
acquaintance, pal, and friend.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Much as we'd sometimes like to ignore the fact, sex isn't exactly tiddlywinks.
Todd Michel McComb
>friends / social group" though.
I suppose that's more accurate, but something like that usually
sounds needlessly cumbersome to me.
Todd Michel McComb
>You say you socialize with people because no one else likes
>them...that suggests you are making a choice.
Sure, it's a choice in a sense, but I certainly don't think of it
as "picking" -- more like going along with it.
Todd Michel McComb
>That's one reason why I started making the distinction between
>acquaintance, pal, and friend.
What's a pal in this taxonomy?
Rob Wynne
It's the format of British video tapes and DVDs.
Makes no sense to me either.
*blinks innocently*
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
Gafilk 2010: Jan 8-10, 2010 - Atlanta, GA - http://www.gafilk.org/
Aphelion - Original SF&F since 1997 - http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Aahz Maruch
Someone who is neither acquaintance nor friend, of course. That is, a
person I know reasonably (not just an acquaintance), but not someone I
have a close enough relationship with to consider a friend.
Pat Kight
>> I think for most people, if you really don't like someone, you just stop
>> hanging around them. This doesn't always involve an explicit rejection
>> -- typically you just don't go to their events or to wherever you see
>> them and eventually the connection just sort of whithers away.
>
> Yeah, that view of friendship confuses me too. All I could think of
> to explain identifying people one doesn't like as friends is the
> situation where the people were part of a well-linked social group,
> such that you usually saw them at group social events and that not
> inviting them to your events or not going to events where they were
> going to be would basically mean re-evaluating your whole social life.
My longtime theater community certainly contains a ... wide array of
personalities (to put it politely), and some of them rub me in entirely
the wrong ways. That doesn't mean they're bad people, we're just not
compatible in one or more ways. I still work with them, socialize with
them, and endeavor to treat them with civility, but I consider them
acquaintances, not friends.
Friends are people I like, whether I get to spend much time with them or
(as in the case of several alt.poly posters, alas) not. When I call
someone a friend, it means I like them, trust them and enjoy spending
time with them. Otherwise, well, I wouldn't.
Back in the day when I was much more actively social, I used to include
sometimes-annoying acquaintances in invitations to parties I throw at my
own house; I no longer throw many parties, and when I do, I only invite
people I actually like. (The only exception I can think of might be a
cast party for a play I direct - there are times when someone working on
the show doesn't rise to the level of friend, but they get invited
anyway because it's a function for the entire cast and crew.)
> I'm part of such a group these days, but there isn't anyone in it that
> I don't like, fortunately. I don't think I'd say "friend"; I'd say
> "a persson in my group of friends / social group" though. (Well, I
> started by calling them my "hand-me-down friends", because I started
> hanging around with them when I hadn't really been here long enough to
> make friends of my own.)
*grin* Good term. I've lived here for 31 years, and I don't see myself
moving away. With luck, I won't have to face that kind of situation again.
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Pat Kight
> A pal is someone you'd have a drink with if you met them somewhere; a
> friend is someone you'd meet somewhere to have a drink.
If I had a quote file, that would go in it. (-:
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
songbird
...
> The problem is we don't all pick the same people to label trolls.
i don't consider that a problem.
songbird
Piglet
>In article <h2a9ad$6th$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Piglet <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>>I'm curious now. You've mentioned a couple of times that you can't
>>pick your friends. Um, why the hell not?
>I guess I'm not very good at rejecting people. I will socialize
>with people because no one else likes them, for instance.
With you so far. Although -- isn't that a criterion for picking your
friends? "Because no one else likes them"? Do you only socialize
with your friends? (Or, turning it around, is everyone you socialize
[heh, orig. 'socialie', how apt] with your friend?)
Looking at it again, I think you mentioned 2 criteria, actually --
you're not going to be rejecting people who aren't interested in
hanging out with you. So that's one -- they have to be interested in
you.
Here's opportunity for an extended digression about degrees & flavors
of social relations (aka, friendship, generally), and maybe that is
indeed where our disconnect lies?
But I'm still back here, staring at the part where you said to a bunch
of geeks on Usenet--in a relationship group, no less--that you
socialize with unpopular people. Who exactly do you think we
socialize with? And how long has it been since you left high school?
(What does "no one likes them" mean?)
I have a habit, long established in my social circles, of tolerating
behavior that many would not put up with, from annoyance or confusion
or whatever. I expect I'm far from alone in that on this newsgroup.
It means I end up cultivating and being friends with people who other
people might think of as "no one likes them". But I like them, or I
wouldn't hang out with them.
There is a trial period, obviously (although I should *not* say that,
given how far apart our base assumptions seem to be at this point in
the conversation), while we're figuring out if we like each other
enough to take it to the next level (or even stay at this one), but
that gets into the nuances of social relations that I mentioned above
as an extended digresson.
> A lot of times, I wonder about my friends... I can't say I
>particularly like some of them, but we're together for whatever the
>reasons happen to be, and I go with the flow on that. The reasons I
>end up being friends with people seem to be very random indeed, and I
>am not seeing where "picking" has come into play.
Do you work on your relationships with your friends? Do you cultivate
new ones ("re-cultivate" old ones? "make new friends, but keep the
old; one is silver and the other gold"--I've now earwormed a quarter?
an eighth? of this newsgroup; my work here is done, mwahaha).
When your geography and your context change, does your social circle
wholly change with it? Do you keep in touch with, visit, write to
friends you no longer see regularly? Do you have any Imaginary
Internet Axe Murderer friends?
I don't ask this in a disparaging way -- this is a model of social
relations that not everyone is in to. I'm just trying to understand
your framework.
My husband shares my framework about what friendship means and how to
get it, and choses not to engage in that work. It's not rewarding for
him. In turn, he frames it as "not having any friends". (There's a
whole other digression about how much of his social energy goes into
his family, and how little of it he would have left for friends if he
chose to have them unless he made some changes in how he relates to
his family, but I won't go there now.)
Serene Vannoy
> My husband
Hee! (Still expect him to be your boy.)
> shares my framework about what friendship means and how to
> get it, and choses not to engage in that work. It's not rewarding for
> him. In turn, he frames it as "not having any friends". (There's a
> whole other digression about how much of his social energy goes into
> his family, and how little of it he would have left for friends if he
> chose to have them unless he made some changes in how he relates to
> his family, but I won't go there now.)
This is exactly the case for James. He genuinely doesn't seem to mind
that his social circle consists of his family and whoever we bring home
with us. In fact, that's too many people sometimes, and he wouldn't
really mind if it were just the family.
Piglet
>Piglet wrote:
>> My husband
>Hee! (Still expect him to be your boy.)
It felt weird to type! (Normally he is "the boy"; I didn't want to
confuse Todd, since he hasn't gotten to know me yet.)
>This is exactly the case for James. He genuinely doesn't seem to mind
>that his social circle consists of his family and whoever we bring home
>with us. In fact, that's too many people sometimes, and he wouldn't
>really mind if it were just the family.
Yes! Boy, too.
And his family is growing, so sometimes I find them overwhelming, heh.
Serene Vannoy
> Serene Vannoy <ser...@serenepages.org>, in article <7b6pi1F...@mid.individual.net>, dixit:
>> Piglet wrote:
>>> My husband
>
>> Hee! (Still expect him to be your boy.)
>
> It felt weird to type! (Normally he is "the boy"; I didn't want to
> confuse Todd, since he hasn't gotten to know me yet.)
Yeah, makes sense.
>> This is exactly the case for James. He genuinely doesn't seem to mind
>> that his social circle consists of his family and whoever we bring home
>> with us. In fact, that's too many people sometimes, and he wouldn't
>> really mind if it were just the family.
>
> Yes! Boy, too.
>
> And his family is growing, so sometimes I find them overwhelming, heh.
Hee! Yes. I suspect if it were just me and my two partners, I would
never get overwhelmed, but it's us, and my partners' partners, and the
rent-a-teenager, and my mom, and the other Munchkin...
Todd Michel McComb
>Normally he is "the boy"; I didn't want to confuse Todd, since he
>hasn't gotten to know me yet.
Thanks.
Todd Michel McComb
>Or, turning it around, is everyone you socialize [heh, orig.
>'socialie', how apt] with your friend?
Yeah, that's pretty much how I think of it.
>So that's one -- they have to be interested in you.
Well, yes. I'm not one to chase people.
>Here's opportunity for an extended digression about degrees &
>flavors of social relations (aka, friendship, generally), and maybe
>that is indeed where our disconnect lies?
It sounds like it. I'm one of those people who thinks of themselves
as having hundreds or really thousands of friends, but you'd probably
call them acquaintenaces or something else.
>But I'm still back here, staring at the part where you said to a bunch
>of geeks on Usenet--in a relationship group, no less--that you
>socialize with unpopular people. Who exactly do you think we
>socialize with? And how long has it been since you left high school?
Ha ha, OK. It hasn't been quite 30 years since high school for me,
but it's been a while. Seems like forever.
>(What does "no one likes them" mean?)
Well, there are people who come around to whatever venue, and people
just visibly shudder, you know? And, wow, can they ever be a
handful. I always feel kind of beaten up after a conversation with
someone like that, but I'll undertake it. There's some desperately
lonely people out there.
Maybe I'm way off base, but I imagine many of you are quiet in those
sorts of social settings. You really can't rise to the same level
of unpopularity by being quiet, believe me.
>Do you work on your relationships with your friends? Do you
>cultivate new ones ("re-cultivate" old ones? "make new friends,
>but keep the old; one is silver and the other gold"--I've now
>earwormed a quarter? an eighth? of this newsgroup; my work here
>is done, mwahaha).
In the first case, yes, I am actually pretty compulsive when it
comes to critiquing all my social interactions, how I could do
better, etc.
With the other questions, of course it varies. I'm constantly
meeting new people (I'm in politics); I generally remember everyone's
name and say hello if I see them, etc. I end up making a lot of
new friends to one degree or another. Mostly when I don't see
people, though, they tend to fall out of my life. I'm certainly
willing to reconnect; I think I generally tend to make more effort
than is reciprocated, but that may just be my perceptual bias.
I spend summers traveling, like now, and I go to local bars by
myself to talk to whoever is there and get their perceptions on
things. I've been in some pretty dicey situations, and also had a
lot of really cool conversations with people I'll probably never
see again. That's one of my favorite activities, although some
nights, it's just boring.
>Do you have any Imaginary Internet Axe Murderer friends?
Not that I know of....
Kai Jones
wrote:
[context ruthlessly genocided]
>Do you have any Imaginary
>Internet Axe Murderer friends?
Smooches and hugs to all my Internet Axe Murderer friends, virtual and
not, who want them!
Right now I'm listening to music I first received as a gift from an
IAM(v), who later became Real just like the Velveteen Rabbit. One of
my partners and my best friend were both IAM(v) first. I've enjoyed
the first (and subsequent) novels of an author who was an early
IAM(v).
--
Kai Jones sni...@panix.com
Smartass by nurture as well as nature. Oh yeah, and I'm contrary, too.
Pat Kight
> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:44:30 +0000 (UTC), pig...@panix.com (Piglet)
> wrote:
>
> [context ruthlessly genocided]
>
>> Do you have any Imaginary
>> Internet Axe Murderer friends?
>
> Smooches and hugs to all my Internet Axe Murderer friends, virtual and
> not, who want them!
>
> Right now I'm listening to music I first received as a gift from an
> IAM(v), who later became Real just like the Velveteen Rabbit. One of
> my partners and my best friend were both IAM(v) first. I've enjoyed
> the first (and subsequent) novels of an author who was an early
> IAM(v).
I met an actual Internet Axe Murderer once. He opened the trunk of his
car and showed me the murdered axe to prove it.
So now, on the rare occasion when I tell someone I'm off to meet an
Imaginary Internet Friend and they bring up the whole "but what if s/he
turns out to be an axe murderer" I can say, "been there, done that" and
move on to other topics. (-:
(He's an old Usenet pal who spends his summers fighting woodland wild
fires, which can be hard on the tools he uses...)
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Darkhawk (H. Nicoll)
> But I'm still back here, staring at the part where you said to a bunch
> of geeks on Usenet--in a relationship group, no less--that you
> socialize with unpopular people. Who exactly do you think we
> socialize with? And how long has it been since you left high school?
> (What does "no one likes them" mean?)
>
> I have a habit, long established in my social circles, of tolerating
> behavior that many would not put up with, from annoyance or confusion
> or whatever. I expect I'm far from alone in that on this newsgroup.
Actually, what this thread is reminding me of is someone I knew in high
school who hung out with my group of friends and was tolerated largely,
I think, because despite her abominable behaviour, all of us were too
familiar with being excluded to be able to bear telling her to go away.
She emailed me semi-recently with something that included, "I have
social skills now!" I was totally at a loss for how to reply. I also
suspect I have ... not forgiven her for some truly atrocious bits of
social stupidity, and seventeen years later it's hard to figure out how
to unearth them to talk about them and maybe find peace there.
- Darkhawk, melancholy
--
Darkhawk - K. H. A. Nicoll - http://aelfhame.net/~darkhawk/
Come, take my body (Allelu--)
Come, take my soul (Take my soul--) "Dark Time"
Come, take me over, I want to be whole. October Project
Lissa
news:FpqdnQauZ8sk_NPX...@scnresearch.com...
I got to meet one of my Internet Axe Murderer friends for the first time
last
night. Had known her for over a decade--from the Alt.Callahans days, and
since then on LJ and Facebook. Finally got to put a voice and face to the
words.
Such great fun.
No, I'm not dead. But we did talk about kumihimo and sniffed BPAL imps.
Yay for people becoming more 'real'!
--
-Lissa
Tangible Daydreams
www.tangibledaydreams.etsy.com
Aahz Maruch
Darkhawk (H. Nicoll) <dark...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>Actually, what this thread is reminding me of is someone I knew in high
>school who hung out with my group of friends and was tolerated largely,
>I think, because despite her abominable behaviour, all of us were too
>familiar with being excluded to be able to bear telling her to go away.
>
>She emailed me semi-recently with something that included, "I have
>social skills now!" I was totally at a loss for how to reply. I also
>suspect I have ... not forgiven her for some truly atrocious bits of
>social stupidity, and seventeen years later it's hard to figure out how
>to unearth them to talk about them and maybe find peace there.
>
> - Darkhawk, melancholy
Are you just noodling out loud or are you interested in MAS?
Either way, I hope you find a way to respond that's comfortable for you.
Darkhawk (H. Nicoll)
> In article <1j2af1s.m35a5e63jqfkN%dark...@mindspring.com>,
> Darkhawk (H. Nicoll) <dark...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >Actually, what this thread is reminding me of is someone I knew in high
> >school who hung out with my group of friends and was tolerated largely,
> >I think, because despite her abominable behaviour, all of us were too
> >familiar with being excluded to be able to bear telling her to go away.
> >
> >She emailed me semi-recently with something that included, "I have
> >social skills now!" I was totally at a loss for how to reply. I also
> >suspect I have ... not forgiven her for some truly atrocious bits of
> >social stupidity, and seventeen years later it's hard to figure out how
> >to unearth them to talk about them and maybe find peace there.
> >
> > - Darkhawk, melancholy
>
> Are you just noodling out loud or are you interested in MAS?
Mostly I'm noodling out loud.
> Either way, I hope you find a way to respond that's comfortable for you.
Unfortunately, my response to it to this point has been, basically, to
ignore it -- which is less uncomfortable than talking to her, but still,
well, intensely uncomfortable.
I mean, what's there to say? "Seventeen years ago, you mocked me
viciously with the sing-song phrase 'You have so-and-so' when I had
broken up with so-and-so some six months before for attempting to rape
me" lacks a certain je ne sais quoi.
Maybe I should be over it. It is so _very_ high school.
I'm not, so much.
- Darkhawk, not sure 'comfortable' exists here
Piglet
>Piglet wrote:
>> And his family is growing, so sometimes I find them overwhelming, heh.
>Hee! Yes. I suspect if it were just me and my two partners, I would
>never get overwhelmed, but it's us, and my partners' partners, and the
>rent-a-teenager, and my mom, and the other Munchkin...
The number of direct family relations on his side who might reasonably
be expected to show up for a minor family event: parents (2), uncle
(1), sib's family (1+1+1), sib's family (1+1), 2 more sibs, the 3 of
us. That's 13. I can think of 9 family friends (or friend families)
who might also join us, depending on which event we're talking about.
Serene Vannoy
> Serene Vannoy <ser...@serenepages.org>, in article <7b6sfpF...@mid.individual.net>, dixit:
>> Piglet wrote:
>>> And his family is growing, so sometimes I find them overwhelming, heh.
>
>> Hee! Yes. I suspect if it were just me and my two partners, I would
>> never get overwhelmed, but it's us, and my partners' partners, and the
>> rent-a-teenager, and my mom, and the other Munchkin...
>
> The number of direct family relations on his side who might reasonably
> be expected to show up for a minor family event: parents (2), uncle
> (1), sib's family (1+1+1), sib's family (1+1), 2 more sibs, the 3 of
> us. That's 13. I can think of 9 family friends (or friend families)
> who might also join us, depending on which event we're talking about.
Oh, yeah. It's more when there are family events, but in general, I
don't go to those. I love most of my family, but I don't need to see
them all at once. The list up there is just who might show up for
dinner on any random day.
Steve Pope
>Oh, yeah. It's more when there are family events, but in general, I
>don't go to those. I love most of my family, but I don't need to see
>them all at once.
I find that I relate better to any of my (dwindling number of)
biofamily if I see them one-on-one. Get more than one of them
in one place at the same time and the dysfuction starts right up.
Steve
Serene Vannoy
Right, same here. Also, now that the most problematic family member
doesn't come around any more, things are much calmer, but still, many of
my family of origin's dysfunctions center around the dinner table, and
so I don't eat with them all at once.
My mother visited recently. She didn't love it that I made the rule
that my kid isn't required to come to the table when the rest of us are
eating, and that no one is allowed to require anyone to eat or not eat
any particular foods. My house, my rules, and the end result was that
my kid did eat with us most times, and the stress level was much lower
than it usually is when one combines my mom and the family dinner table.
Pat Kight
I'll be the statistical outlier here, I guess. Although I have a vast
number of aunts, uncles and cousins, they haven't been in my life since
I was a kid. I wouldn't even know how to get hold of most of them now; I
have no idea which of them are still live. My blood family amounts to
two sisters and a brother, two in California and one in Colorado.
We have our dysfunctional moments, but they're mostly childhood
behaviors that emerge on the rare occasions when we're together; we
generally spot recognize them for what they are and have a good laugh.
I'd *love* to see them more often than the once every year or two we've
managed all our adult lives.
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Todd Michel McComb
Pat Kight <kig...@peak.org> wrote:
>I'll be the statistical outlier here, I guess. Although I have a
>vast number of aunts, uncles and cousins, they haven't been in my
>life since I was a kid.
I was at a gathering of 30 members of my father's family today.
That's the most that have come together in a while when I've visited.
They're doing homemade fireworks as I write this, which is something
that does not interest me, so I left. We get along fine, although
most would be shocked if they knew more about me, I'm sure.
Rob Wynne
>> Smooches and hugs to all my Internet Axe Murderer friends, virtual and
>> not, who want them!
>>
>> Right now I'm listening to music I first received as a gift from an
>> IAM(v), who later became Real just like the Velveteen Rabbit. One of
>> my partners and my best friend were both IAM(v) first. I've enjoyed
>> the first (and subsequent) novels of an author who was an early
>> IAM(v).
>
> I met an actual Internet Axe Murderer once. He opened the trunk of his
> car and showed me the murdered axe to prove it.
>
> So now, on the rare occasion when I tell someone I'm off to meet an
> Imaginary Internet Friend and they bring up the whole "but what if s/he
> turns out to be an axe murderer" I can say, "been there, done that" and
> move on to other topics. (-:
>
> (He's an old Usenet pal who spends his summers fighting woodland wild
> fires, which can be hard on the tools he uses...)
>
One of my sweeties that I met online has a sister who is utterly convinced
that anyone you meet on the Internet is up to no good, and that we're
ultimately going to murder her when we meet her in person. This has turned
into a running gag, best summed up by this phone conversation between her
and another friend, about an hour after he left after visiting her:
Him: We forgot something!
Her: (thinking they'd left something behind) What'd you forget?
Him: We forgot to murder you!!
Her: Oh. (pause) Well, you want to turn around then?
Him: No, we're too far down the road. We'll just do it next time.
Her: Ok, then. Have a good trip.
We all think her sister is nuts. :)
Erin
> One of my sweeties that I met online has a sister who is utterly convinced
> that anyone you meet on the Internet is up to no good, and that we're
> ultimately going to murder her when we meet her in person.
Last month, I went to Florida to score AP exams for the College Board.
During a break, I was texting If, and my table leader (the person who
immediately supervised my work) asked me about why I texted people,
and I said that it was for me usually a lot faster and cheaper,
especially since my boyfriend lived in Canada.
"Have you met him?!" he asked, very concerned.
"...yes?" I said.
"Well, you just hear about these people getting into relationships on
the Internet that aren't real," he said.
At the end of the week, the table leader gave mock "awards" to
everyone at the table. I got "Most Likely To Become A Canadian
Citizen."
Erin, whose aforementioned imaginary axe murdering boyfriend (well,
one of them, anyways) is in the shower right now.
Aahz Maruch
Erin <ping...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Last month, I went to Florida to score AP exams for the College Board.
I'm curious, how do you get to do that? Do they pay you?
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
BTDTBTTSRTBSTMATS
Michael Rosen
> In article <h2bni3$7mc$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Piglet <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>> David Weinshenker <daz...@earthlink.net>, in article <h2b0ru$7lt$1...@aioe.org>, dixit:
>>> So can you not-pick your not-friend's not-nose?
>> 'S not hard!
>
> Booger bars! Tastes fattening, but it's snot!
It's official now. *Anything* can be a food thread.
--
Michael Rosen
Michael Rosen
> mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb), in article <h218lh$14pk$1...@agricola.medieval.org>, dixit:
>> In article <lf7845hlfnr78mq6t...@4ax.com>,
>> Kai Jones <sni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> The problem is we don't all pick the same people to label trolls.
>
>
> Sure you can! It's your riend's nose you can't pick.
Surely that would be negotiable, too....
--
Michael Rosen,
YKINMK
Stef
>one of them, anyways) is in the shower right now.
If life were an Alfred Hitchcock movie, that would make *you* the axe
murderer.
--
Stef ** st...@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
"You're always going off on these 'self-pity' tangents. We have got to
hurry and save the universe!!!"
"Do we *have* to?"
-- Too Much Coffee Man
Pat Kight
One of the great things about my immediate family - all three siblings
and my late mother as well - is that they've reacted supportively to
every "shocking" thing I've ever done. Sometimes with the "there she
goes again" eye-rolling, but still ...
Heck, two of the sibs could easily top me in the "who's done the most
outre stuff" department. And the third is congenitally tolerant.
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Erin
> In article <c6ddb298-21cf-46fa-aa8e-2b76c6d47...@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Erin <pingue...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Last month, I went to Florida to score AP exams for the College Board.
>
> I'm curious, how do you get to do that? Do they pay you?
The College Board recruits high school teachers who have taught the AP
course within the last four years and college instructors who have
taught the equivalent college course to apply to become AP readers. I
heard about it four years ago via a letter they sent to my department,
and decided to apply. They build up a pool of qualified applicants and
send out invitations to attend the readings in two or three rounds
about four to six months before the exam, depending on how many people
accept the invitations.
They transport all of the readers of a specific exam to one location
(in my case, it was Daytona Beach, Florida) and we work eight hours a
day for seven straight days. They pay for transportation, lodging,
meals, and any travel-related expenses (like airport shuttles, cab
fare, etc.) They also pay us a flat fee for scoring the exams (around
$1500).
It's really exhausting, but the pay is good and I have had the chance
to meet lots of interesting people.
Erin, if any of you want to join this exercise in academic masochism
in your discipline, email me and I'll send you a link to the
application form
Aqua
> On Jul 5, 9:51 am, Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> wrote:
>
>> One of my sweeties that I met online has a sister who is utterly convinced
>> that anyone you meet on the Internet is up to no good, and that we're
>> ultimately going to murder her when we meet her in person.
>
> Last month, I went to Florida to score AP exams for the College Board.
> During a break, I was texting If, and my table leader (the person who
> immediately supervised my work) asked me about why I texted people,
> and I said that it was for me usually a lot faster and cheaper,
> especially since my boyfriend lived in Canada.
>
> "Have you met him?!" he asked, very concerned.
>
> "...yes?" I said.
>
> "Well, you just hear about these people getting into relationships on
> the Internet that aren't real," he said.
<insert Aqua's standard rant about human failures of risk perceptions
and lousy statistical instincts here>
<insert Aqua's more recent thoughts about how human stories about risk
of violence are always about "mysterious strangers" when the vast amount
of relationship violence remains committed by people who are already
well-known to the victim>
Aqua
Pat Kight
> <insert Aqua's standard rant about human failures of risk perceptions
> and lousy statistical instincts here>
> <insert Aqua's more recent thoughts about how human stories about risk
> of violence are always about "mysterious strangers" when the vast amount
> of relationship violence remains committed by people who are already
> well-known to the victim>
Indeed. If we go by the numbers, most of us are safer with the Scary
Internet Strangers than we are in our own homes and neighborhoods.
--
Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Phoenix
> I'll be the statistical outlier here, I guess. Although I have a vast
> number of aunts, uncles and cousins, they haven't been in my life since
> I was a kid. I wouldn't even know how to get hold of most of them now; I
> have no idea which of them are still live.
Not such a total outlier...seeble from me on this. I do know
where most of the aunts and uncles are, but not my cousins. And I
have very little, if any, contact with them. Used to send holiday
cards, but when none of them returned the favor, I dropped them
off the list.
> I'd *love* to see them more often than the once every year or two we've
> managed all our adult lives.
And here I become more of the statistical outlier. I saw my
parents and one brother in May, for my dad's surgery. That was
brutal enough to keep me from wanting to go back any time soon,
although I may need to go for my dad's memorial if things keep
going the way they have been. Before that, it was 2005 and before
that, 2000. That was plenty.
--
Deborah
phoenixpdx.livejournal.com
also doesn't help that airline travel makes my body hurt a lot.
Cris Galletly
Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:
>I find that I relate better to any of my (dwindling number of)
>biofamily if I see them one-on-one. Get more than one of them
>in one place at the same time and the dysfuction starts right up.
That's a very astute observation.
There are a couple of others of my biological family that are able to
spot the disfunction, which allows us to roll our eyes at each other
when the madness starts.
And then there are the members of the family who can't even be dealt with
one-on-one ...
--
+ Cris Galletly <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> +
Irfon-Kim Ahmad
> So now, on the rare occasion when I tell someone I'm off to meet an
> Imaginary Internet Friend and they bring up the whole "but what if s/he
> turns out to be an axe murderer" I can say, "been there, done that" and
> move on to other topics. (-:
I was listening to an audiobook about a teacher who teaches creative
writing to kids in maximum security juvenile prison -- mostly kids who
have been convicted of murder and so on. In it, he relates a story
about two of the kids having this exchange, which I am completely
paraphrasing from memory.
Kid 1: When I write, it helps me deal with my feelings in ways I never
knew I could before. When I get angry, I write and let it all out.
Sometims I write some really horrible stuff. I mean, if anyone ever saw
those notebooks, they'd think I was some kind of axe murderer!
Kid 2: You *are* a murderer, fool!
Kid 1: Yeah, but I'm not an *axe* murderer!
Somehow that made me giggle a lot.
Irfon-Kim Ahmad
> In article <c6ddb298-21cf-46fa...@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Erin <ping...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Erin, whose aforementioned imaginary axe murdering boyfriend (well,
>>one of them, anyways) is in the shower right now.
>
> If life were an Alfred Hitchcock movie, that would make *you* the axe
> murderer.
I recently heard a radio announcer rhapsodizing about a new rendition of
the film score. One of the changes made was to introduce woodwinds and
brass. (The original score for Psycho was entirely for strings.) Then
they played it. It was... wrong. The shower scene music struck me as
most indicative of, "Murder of Tragic Clown in Shower."