Connectivity issues?
Brian
two weeks, my roof will come off. I live in an Eichler (a particularly
Californian modernist style with no crawlspace, ducting or attic -- see
last Sunday's New York Times) so this is my best chance for the next 10
years to bore holes and run Cat 5, coaxial, fiber, thermostat wire, or
anything else that might be useful in the future between my nascent
comm-closet and the rest of the rooms in this house. I'm already doing
electrical power upgrades. Does anyone have any advice on must-have
connectivity? I can't think of anything other than putting in 100Base-T
Ethernet, a phone line and video to every room... maybe thermostat cable
for future room-by-room temperature control? Home-tech magazines
commonly show two coaxial video outlets per room in new houses, but I
can't imagine what they use the second feed for. What do security
systems (another future possibility) require for cabling? Any
reasonable suggestions or ideas would be welcomed...
ObPoly: I'm also adding a 4th bedroom as part of the overall remodeling...
Brian
Roger
Hi Brian,
Seems like Cat 5 and coax should meet your needs. You can run some extra
cat 5 for telephone and/or thermostat connections. My main suggestion is
that you consider using conduit to make your runs. That way you will be
able to pull fiber or whatever later without having to anticipate which
technology is going to be ubiquitous in the future.
In our house, which includes attics and crawl spaces, we just put conduit up
the walls and let the cables run free in the attic/crawel space.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.
JennieD-O'C
>so this is my best chance for the next 10
>years to bore holes and run Cat 5, coaxial, fiber, thermostat wire, or
>anything else that might be useful in the future between my nascent
>comm-closet and the rest of the rooms in this house.
It's hard to predict what's going to come up in the future as a standard,
so what we chose to do was run 2500 feet of cat-5 to every room, and then
also put in conduit to nearly every room for future expansion. You might
want to opt for something similar, if it's possible while you've got walls
still on.
---
Jennie D-O'C <jenn...@intranet.org> http://home.intranet.org/~jenniedo/
Ben Okopnik
Roger of alt.polyamory speaking thus:
>
>Seems like Cat 5 and coax should meet your needs. You can run some extra
>cat 5 for telephone and/or thermostat connections. My main suggestion is
>that you consider using conduit to make your runs. That way you will be
>able to pull fiber or whatever later without having to anticipate which
>technology is going to be ubiquitous in the future.
Excellent idea, the conduit. <Experience speaks> Pull a few strands of
100lb.-test fishing line along with your Cat 5 - a LOT easier than using
a fish tape for future "upgrades" (every time you use one, pull a wire
*and* a replacement line...)
Ben "When you spend 6 hours jackhammering concrete just to pull _one_
alarm wire, you learn these things..." Okopnik
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- REMOVE THE OBVIOUS SPAMTRAP TO REPLY -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Do monomaniacal paranoid schizophrenic agnostic dyslexic
insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if they might
*be* the dog that's out to get them?
Theresa Mecklenborg
Ben Okopnik wrote in message ...
[good advice involving fishing line]
>Do monomaniacal paranoid schizophrenic agnostic dyslexic
>insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if they might
>*be* the dog that's out to get them?
Adore! Quote file? And if so, did you write this, or should it go down as
Anonymous?
--Theresa
tiger_spot(at)mail.utexas.edu
Ben Okopnik
Theresa Mecklenborg of alt.polyamory speaking thus:
>
>Ben Okopnik wrote in message ...
>
>[good advice involving fishing line]
>
>>Do monomaniacal paranoid schizophrenic agnostic dyslexic
>>insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if they might
>>*be* the dog that's out to get them?
>
>Adore! Quote file? And if so, did you write this, or should it go down as
>Anonymous?
You are certainly welcome to carry it away on stockinged feet before the
burglar alarm goes off and the security people come running. :) Nope,
didn't write it - and have seen a number of different versions on the net
(that one being the longest, IIRC) - but never an attribution, which is One
Of Those Things for me: I always attribute a quote whenever I can.
Ben "Attribution is the tribute paid to use someone else's wit" Okopnik
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- REMOVE THE OBVIOUS SPAMTRAP TO REPLY -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Nothing shocks me more in the men of religion and their flocks than
their pretensions to be the only religious people." -- Jean Guehenno
John Clark
Brian wrote:
> electrical power upgrades. Does anyone have any advice on must-have
> connectivity? I can't think of anything other than putting in 100Base-T
> Ethernet,
I would recommend that your Cat-5 be tested to 300 Mhz and must
have 8 pairs, and that would be sufficient for gigabit rates. It would of
course
run 100BaseT as well... (Gigabit on Cat-5 signals each pair at 250 Mhz
giving the required 1 G using the four pairs.)
Current Macs are shipping with a gigabit interface on board. My estimate
is that by the end of next year PCI gigabit cards will be down in the
$100-150 US range..
As for distribution of video, I would think that a gigabit would suffice for
a 'reasonable' household. Here one would perhaps like to have a 'holding
tank' movie server. The problem there is perhaps more one of legality
of tanking movies... rather than the particular media of distribution.
> a phone line and video to every room... maybe thermostat cable
> for future room-by-room temperature control? Home-tech magazines
> commonly show two coaxial video outlets per room in new houses, but I
> can't imagine what they use the second feed for.
His and Hers sets... clearly a monogamous assumption...
Brian
>
> Brian wrote:
> I would recommend that your Cat-5 be tested to 300 Mhz and must
> have 8 pairs, and that would be sufficient for gigabit rates. It would of
> course
> run 100BaseT as well... (Gigabit on Cat-5 signals each pair at 250 Mhz
> giving the required 1 G using the four pairs.)
Hmmm... I was planning to use Cat-5e-rated cable (up to 350 MHz), so
that should work... except that all of the cable I've seen has eight
conductors arranged in four twisted pairs (skipping the bad monogamy
joke here). Maybe there's a 16-wire cable out there, but I haven't seen
it yet...
> Current Macs are shipping with a gigabit interface on board. My estimate
> is that by the end of next year PCI gigabit cards will be down in the
> $100-150 US range..
Although that still seems like overkill for my lowly Mac 4400 and Epson
inkjet printer, it might be handy someday...
Brian
(currently waiting on his sweet-potato souffle to cool sufficiently to
put it up and go to bed...)
Brian
> while i personally would skip the bathrooms, i have to say that if i had a
> laptop, i'd use it in bed, especially when i was flaring and not feeling
> like getting out of bed. that would be cool. for the non-arthritic, you
> may appreciate it if you're sick and want to check email.
Thanks -- that is a reasonable use, one that even my primary can
probably accept :-)
The bathroom suggestion was driven as much by house layout as anything
-- it is basically a "T" layout, with the bathrooms at the top ends of
the T, so dropping a line there would also let me reach the patio on the
other side of the exterior wall. At least it wouldn't lead to a squicky
e-mail if a laptop was inadvertently dropped in the toilet (other thread
on cellphones :-).
Brian
(who admits that yes, he is also guilty of using a bread machine to
prepare dough for tomorrow's Parker House rolls...)
Brian
> It's hard to predict what's going to come up in the future as a standard,
> so what we chose to do was run 2500 feet of cat-5 to every room, and then
> also put in conduit to nearly every room for future expansion. You might
> want to opt for something similar, if it's possible while you've got walls
> still on.
Was that 2500' of single-line cable, or do some runs have multiple cable
lines (e.g., 1000' of conduit enclosing 2500' of cable)?
I'm contemplating running two cat-5 lines to each room, over the roof
while it is stripped away... thanks.
Brian
Brian
fuzz...@CHUCKTHISPARTpocketmail.com.invalid wrote:
> The ancient archives of Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:46:38 -0800 showed
> Roger of alt.polyamory speaking thus:
> >
> >Seems like Cat 5 and coax should meet your needs. You can run some extra
> >cat 5 for telephone and/or thermostat connections. My main suggestion is
> >that you consider using conduit to make your runs. That way you will be
> >able to pull fiber or whatever later without having to anticipate which
> >technology is going to be ubiquitous in the future.
[Responding to Roger]
Thanks for the suggestion -- that way, I can skip actually doing the
fiber right now.
By the way, does anyone routinely use their laptops in bed? I'm trying
to figure out if it would be worthwhile dropping data connections next to
the bed (and the toilets...).
> Excellent idea, the conduit. <Experience speaks> Pull a few strands of
> 100lb.-test fishing line along with your Cat 5 - a LOT easier than using
> a fish tape for future "upgrades" (every time you use one, pull a wire
> *and* a replacement line...)
[responding to Ben]
I hadn't thought of that, thanks, and it is an excellent suggestion. I
guess you would tie the replacement line to the front of the cable that
you're pulling with the existing fishline.
>
> Ben "When you spend 6 hours jackhammering concrete just to pull _one_
> alarm wire, you learn these things..." Okopnik
Ick... speaking of security systems, what kind of wires do they use
(between rooms)?
Brian
(hoping very much that it doesn't rain on December 5)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
fairest one
: By the way, does anyone routinely use their laptops in bed? I'm trying
: to figure out if it would be worthwhile dropping data connections next to
: the bed (and the toilets...).
while i personally would skip the bathrooms, i have to say that if i had a
laptop, i'd use it in bed, especially when i was flaring and not feeling
like getting out of bed. that would be cool. for the non-arthritic, you
may appreciate it if you're sick and want to check email.
betsy.
--
"I never liked you anyway. And you have stupid hair."
--spike
JennieD-O'C
>Was that 2500' of single-line cable, or do some runs have multiple cable
>lines (e.g., 1000' of conduit enclosing 2500' of cable)?
All of our runs are at least double. Some have six cat-five cables. It
was cheap enough, and we knew that was our last chance to do something
like that so easily. We're using the same stuff for our phone lines.
RJ
}On Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:17:09 GMT, Brian <Bria...@telocity.com> warbled:
}
}: By the way, does anyone routinely use their laptops in bed? I'm trying
}: to figure out if it would be worthwhile dropping data connections next to
}: the bed (and the toilets...).
}
}while i personally would skip the bathrooms, i have to say that if i had a
}laptop, i'd use it in bed, especially when i was flaring and not feeling
}like getting out of bed. that would be cool. for the non-arthritic, you
}may appreciate it if you're sick and want to check email.
House of the Future(tm) set-up:
IR keyboard and mouse in bedside stand;
Big-ass flatscreen displays all over the house (set up like
paintings, almost), one of them viewable from the bed;
computer within IR beam range.
Voila! No unsightly cables!
RJ
Who thinks that he will read about somebody installing the
flat-panel tv's as paintings and then "subscribe" to art Real Soon
Now.
--
RJ Johnson \\ I don't write .sig files...
Meme Wrangler \\
r...@xocolatl.com \\ I write the things that make .sig files _better_.
Aahz Maruch
RJ <r...@xocolatl.com> wrote:
>
>Who thinks that he will read about somebody installing the
>flat-panel tv's as paintings and then "subscribe" to art Real Soon
>Now.
It's even sicker than that. There are already houses like this,
available for free. Catch is, they display advertising all the time,
and you need to spend >80% of your credit card bill inside the house.
--
--- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aa...@pobox.com)
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het <*> http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
"if brevity is the soul of wit, you're the wittiest man i know!" --silicon jesus
David R. Astels
> In article <Pine.BSF.4.21.00112...@mleko.xocolatl.com>,
> RJ <r...@xocolatl.com> wrote:
>
>> Who thinks that he will read about somebody installing the
>> flat-panel tv's as paintings and then "subscribe" to art Real Soon
>> Now.
I think this is cool. But not the subscription part. I foresee a
flourishing napster trade in visual art. Once it's digitized.. it's all
the same.
Seriously.. this would give visual artists a new venue.. animated
paintings. Anyone here a "Harry Potter" fan? Friends have commented on
some of the purely fantastic things in those books, and have included
the animated photos & paintings... until I describe how they could be
done today... quite simple really... lots of hoursepower required for
the AI and realtime rendering software, but technically not that much of
a challenge. Paintings in the classic sense will seem pretty boring
soon enough... like the internet before the web.
> It's even sicker than that. There are already houses like this,
> available for free. Catch is, they display advertising all the time,
> and you need to spend >80% of your credit card bill inside the house.
Now that's a drag.. and a capitalistic abuse of technology.
Dave
For Madmen Only
<bria...@telocity.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Home-tech magazines
>commonly show two coaxial video outlets per room in new houses, but I
>can't imagine what they use the second feed for.
Maybe just for flexibility? Maybe most folks wouldn't use both at the
same time, but at least you'd have an option of hooking up either
*here* or *there* without having to run extra cable inside the room.
fmmo
--
I began to get enormously interested in hearing how everybody said the
same thing over and over again with infinite variations but over and
over again until finally if you listened with great intensity
you could hear it rise and fall and tell all that there is inside them . . .
Gertrude Stein
For Madmen Only
<Bria...@telocity.com> wrote:
>By the way, does anyone routinely use their laptops in bed?
Yes. Heck , I know someones who routinely us a desktop computer from
their bed.
> I'm trying
>to figure out if it would be worthwhile dropping data connections next to
>the bed
Absolutely.
> (and the toilets...).
Hmm. Can't say that I'd find a use for this. On the other hand, I'd
love to be able to use a laptop in the tub without fear of dousing it.
David R. Astels
> In article<8vhnm4$fpp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Brian
> <Bria...@telocity.com> wrote:
>
>
>> By the way, does anyone routinely use their laptops in bed?
>> I'm trying
>> to figure out if it would be worthwhile dropping data connections next to
>> the bed
>
>
> Absolutely.
I'll second that.
>> (and the toilets...).
>
>
> Hmm. Can't say that I'd find a use for this.
I dunno... I don't read newspapers.. all my news is off the 'net...
so... Also.. if it'd be nice sometimes not to have to break my train of
thought :-) due to biological interruptions.
While I have had the bedroom wired.. my wife has never seen the value of
having the washrooms wired :-(
Utility aside.. it'd be such a wonderfully geeky thing to have :-) If
that is done it might be an idea to have an airline/lectur hall style
flip/fold up desk to place the laptop on... I mean they're called
"laptops" but that just doesn't work well.... speaking as one who has
done his share of work in airports using a "laptop" literally.
Dave
John Clark
Brian wrote:
> John Clark wrote:
> >
> > Brian wrote:
>
> > I would recommend that your Cat-5 be tested to 300 Mhz and must
> > have 8 pairs, and that would be sufficient for gigabit rates. It would of
> > course
> > run 100BaseT as well... (Gigabit on Cat-5 signals each pair at 250 Mhz
> > giving the required 1 G using the four pairs.)
>
> Hmmm... I was planning to use Cat-5e-rated cable (up to 350 MHz), so
> that should work... except that all of the cable I've seen has eight
> conductors arranged in four twisted pairs (skipping the bad monogamy
> joke here). Maybe there's a 16-wire cable out there, but I haven't seen
> it yet...
No, 4 twisted pair wire is the correct one to have. In the past before gigabit
rates
some installations would 'cheat' with only 2-pair, which would work for
10/100BaseT, but definately not allow gigabit rates.
> > Current Macs are shipping with a gigabit interface on board. My estimate
> > is that by the end of next year PCI gigabit cards will be down in the
> > $100-150 US range..
>
> Although that still seems like overkill for my lowly Mac 4400 and Epson
> inkjet printer, it might be handy someday...
Yes, well, that's the 'problem' with thinking about what you have 'right now'.
Current PC things are beginning to be seen with Ghz processors, and
internal busses that can support more bandwith. At the moment I don't know
what the current top Power PC speed is, but I'd think its tending towards
600/750 Mhz. Macs have had a internal PCI bus improvement to gain
speed there.
From my view, most of the 'bandwith' would be used for some form of
Digital TV (perhaps not in your house... but in general). Hence having
bandwith available for simultaneous feeds would be a reason to consider
wiring with higher bandwiths.
>
>
> Brian
>
> (currently waiting on his sweet-potato souffle to cool sufficiently to
> put it up and go to bed...)
Well, put an network presented thermometer on it (perhaps an IR version
so no invasive probing...), and have a webwidget on your computer that
indicates the current coolness...
In my own personal setup, while I have things like a couple of 500 Mhz
Pentium machines, a couple of AMD K6/2's and a couple of PPC Macs
which are all loosing on the speed ground, I have lots of image data to
move around, like a customer's image set may be about 3-4 Gigabytes
of storage. Hence having higher bandwith networking is a benefit...
and of course since I develop the cards and drivers I use my 'personal'
environment as a test bed...
For example, sending a couple of 100 megs to a cheap PC hooked to a
cheap Epson printer is definately superior to having a 1 Ghz wundermachine
doing it all...
Brian
> House of the Future(tm) set-up:
>
> IR keyboard and mouse in bedside stand;
> Big-ass flatscreen displays all over the house (set up like
> paintings, almost), one of them viewable from the bed;
> computer within IR beam range.
>
> Voila! No unsightly cables!
Actually, I was contemplating eventually putting in a wall-mount flat
TV, just to save bedroom floorspace... could carry the IR signal back to
a computer, then send S-video back... maybe in a couple of years, when
large flat-panels come down in price...
Brian
Brian
> Hmm. Can't say that I'd find a use for this. On the other hand, I'd
> love to be able to use a laptop in the tub without fear of dousing it.
Presumably a battery powered IR keyboard driving a separate wall-mounted
screen? Otherwise, dropping a laptop in the tub while one was sharing
that bathtub... could be rather shocking :-)
Brian
(wondering how flat-panel screens stand up to steamy conditions...)
Brian
> While I have had the bedroom wired.. my wife has never seen the value of
> having the washrooms wired :-(
Mine either, actually... it is driven as much by having the adjacent
patio wired as anything.
> Utility aside.. it'd be such a wonderfully geeky thing to have :-) If
> that is done it might be an idea to have an airline/lectur hall style
> flip/fold up desk to place the laptop on... I mean they're called
> "laptops" but that just doesn't work well.... speaking as one who has
> done his share of work in airports using a "laptop" literally.
Cool idea... I'll be eventually replacing the hanging sink with
something else, and a flip-up could possibly be attached. Thanks...
Brian
Brian
> Heh. I'd be tempted to run smooth PVC pipes or the equivalent around in
> the ceiling making a network to all the various places that might want
> connectivity -- thus, if you need some new sort of wire run in a couple
> of years, you can pick one of the existing lines, tie a cable to one
> end, pull it out the other, and then pull it and the new line back
> through with the cable.
Hmmm... in this house, the roof and ceiling are one and the same, just
redwood 2" thick x 10" wide planking with a tar-and-gravel coating on
the exterior side. Once the tar-and-gravel comes off, that's the ideal
time to lay new cables or conduit (so that they can be subsequently
re-covered by the new waterproofing layer).
Actually, your suggestion is quite useful to me for suggesting PVC for
conduits... the local building department doesn't require anything for
low-voltage lines, so PVC would be fine. And *much* faster to put in
than rigid metal conduits... especially the stretches carrying 8-10
cables, where I was contemplating the use of 1-1/2" metal conduit otherwise.
> Also, what with the two video outlets ... in the apartment I'm in, we've
> had all sorts of amusing issues with connections being on the wrong side
> of the room. The video cable has to cross a doorway to get to the TV,
> and the phone line has to go most of the way around the room (and this
> is a combination kitchen/dining-room/living-room room) to get to the
> computer modem. Quite possibly the multiple outlets are simply to avoid
> this sort of thing.
This was two video outlets per wallplate -- I'm going to put in two
drops in the master bedroom, for example, one on each side of the room.
Given two outlets per drop, that's four (video, as well as four data
jacks) in one room... which seems like a lot, but who knows what I (or a
future owner) will want in 5-10 years?
Thanks for the suggestions :-)
Brian
Brooks Moses
> I'm in the midst of planning a major house remodeling... in less than
> two weeks, my roof will come off. I live in an Eichler (a particularly
> Californian modernist style with no crawlspace, ducting or attic -- see
> years to bore holes and run Cat 5, coaxial, fiber, thermostat wire, or
> anything else that might be useful in the future between my nascent
> electrical power upgrades. Does anyone have any advice on must-have
> connectivity? I can't think of anything other than putting in 100Base-T
> for future room-by-room temperature control? Home-tech magazines
> commonly show two coaxial video outlets per room in new houses, but I
> systems (another future possibility) require for cabling? Any
> reasonable suggestions or ideas would be welcomed...
Heh. I'd be tempted to run smooth PVC pipes or the equivalent around in
the ceiling making a network to all the various places that might want
connectivity -- thus, if you need some new sort of wire run in a couple
of years, you can pick one of the existing lines, tie a cable to one
end, pull it out the other, and then pull it and the new line back
through with the cable.
Also, what with the two video outlets ... in the apartment I'm in, we've
had all sorts of amusing issues with connections being on the wrong side
of the room. The video cable has to cross a doorway to get to the TV,
and the phone line has to go most of the way around the room (and this
is a combination kitchen/dining-room/living-room room) to get to the
computer modem. Quite possibly the multiple outlets are simply to avoid
this sort of thing.
- Brooks, engineering theorist. :)
Heather Anne Nicoll
> Heh. I'd be tempted to run smooth PVC pipes or the equivalent around in
> the ceiling making a network to all the various places that might want
> connectivity -- thus, if you need some new sort of wire run in a couple
> of years, you can pick one of the existing lines, tie a cable to one
> end, pull it out the other, and then pull it and the new line back
> through with the cable.
When I was in a group-living sort of situation in which it becaem
obvious we needed more lines, this was precisely how we did it.
It was very dusty work.
- Darkhawk, still plotting how to wire her houuuuuuuuse
--
Heather Nicoll - Darkhawk - http://aelfhame.net/~darkhawk/
My life is burning -- could you read by the light?
- Savatage, "Symmetry"
John Clark
Aahz Maruch wrote:
> In article <Pine.BSF.4.21.00112...@mleko.xocolatl.com>,
> RJ <r...@xocolatl.com> wrote:
> >
> >Who thinks that he will read about somebody installing the
> >flat-panel tv's as paintings and then "subscribe" to art Real Soon
> >Now.
>
> It's even sicker than that. There are already houses like this,
> available for free. Catch is, they display advertising all the time,
> and you need to spend >80% of your credit card bill inside the house.
About 15 years ago I constructed a pair of kiosks for one of my wife's
projects. Externally a TV monitor was framed by a 'fancy grade A
art frame'.... Inside the kiosk the tv was connected to a 3/4 Beta tape player.
The content was generated by computer, having digitized a sequence of
two images were a woman's mouth was alternately open and closed.
A sound track was layed down as well, hence the viewer would
be positioned in the 'middle of a conversation'... in fact a 'gossip'
conversation...
Our current 'booth' set up uses an Epson projector driven from our lap
top. The 'screen' is a piece of foam core (1/4 in thick white board with
foam filling for stability...) and framed with an 'art frame'. A 10 minute
slide show presents her photographic 'portfolio' with images appropriate
for the particular show (ie wedding stuff for bridal shows, family
portraits for more general shows.)
I have thought about this for a 'high end' art work for the wealthy (where's
that discussion again...) who wish to have a changing set of family/significant
images.
I would not particularly intend for such a work to regurgitate 'old Masters
and Mistresses', but obviously, someone could do that.
Brooks Moses
> In article<8vhnm4$fpp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Brian
> <Bria...@telocity.com> wrote:
>
> their bed.
I used to do that. :)
Well, it was a _small_ bedroom. And all my stuff was in it, which among
other things prompted a quote from a good friend of mine that "chair is
a latin word for 'flat thing to put stuff on'" -- which made it
difficult to sit anywhere but the bed. And I found it particularly
comfortable to prop my feet up on top of the headboard, my head up on a
pile of pillows, and put the keyboard on my lap. The monitor was on a
desk right next to the headboard, so it was in the natural line of
sight.
Unfortunately, in the new place, the bed is in the other room from the
computer, making such comfort hard to obtain....
- Brooks
RJ
}Aahz Maruch wrote:
}> It's even sicker than that. There are already houses like this,
}> available for free. Catch is, they display advertising all the time,
}> and you need to spend >80% of your credit card bill inside the house.
}
}Now that's a drag.. and a capitalistic abuse of technology.
I really won't go into the hopelessly intertwined histories of art,
technology and [economic philosophy]. It's just too easy.
Bearpaw
>
>RJ <r...@xocolatl.com> wrote:
>>Who thinks that he will read about somebody installing the
>>flat-panel tv's as paintings and then "subscribe" to art Real Soon
>>Now.
>
>available for free. Catch is, they display advertising all the time,
>and you need to spend >80% of your credit card bill inside the house.
This sounds like a job for Chain Saw Woman and High Explosives Man!
Bearpaw
--
~~~~~~~~~~~ bea...@shore.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Evil is just plain bad! You don't cotton to it! You gotta smack it on
the nose with the rolled up newspaper of goodness! Bad dog! Bad dog!"
- The Tick
Ben Okopnik
Brian of alt.polyamory speaking thus:
>
>> Excellent idea, the conduit. <Experience speaks> Pull a few strands of
>> 100lb.-test fishing line along with your Cat 5 - a LOT easier than using
>> a fish tape for future "upgrades" (every time you use one, pull a wire
>> *and* a replacement line...)
>
>[responding to Ben]
>
>I hadn't thought of that, thanks, and it is an excellent suggestion. I
>guess you would tie the replacement line to the front of the cable that
>you're pulling with the existing fishline.
Dead right. Sorta like this:
Knot Conduit
New cable -----------------------*-=================- Old 100'-test
New 100'-test ______________________/
>> Ben "When you spend 6 hours jackhammering concrete just to pull _one_
>> alarm wire, you learn these things..." Okopnik
>
>Ick... speaking of security systems, what kind of wires do they use
>(between rooms)?
Just plain 4-conductor phone wire; that gives you 2 wires for the sensor
and 2 spares.
>Brian
>
>(hoping very much that it doesn't rain on December 5)
Good luck!
Ben Okopnik
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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm
frightened of the old ones." -- John Cage