Affirmative action is discrimination...
Frodo
to do something about it.
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented Frodo
broadcast on alt.politics:
F> ...and therefore illegal. Let's hope the Bush administration has
F> the balls to do something about it.
Too bad the 5th Circuit doesn't agree with you - and neither, for that
matter, does this Supreme Court.
Live by the courts, die by the courts. What is Fraudulent-Elect Bush
going to do about it?
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
My last cow just died, so I won't need your bull anymore.
EL PRESIDENTE
>From: Lars Eighner eig...@io.com
>Date: 12/22/00 4:02 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <86y9x83sl...@dumpster.io.com>
>
>In our last episode, <A_L06.2550$k8.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>the lovely and talented Frodo
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>F> ...and therefore illegal. Let's hope the Bush administration has
>F> the balls to do something about it.
>
>Too bad the 5th Circuit doesn't agree with you - and neither, for that
>matter, does this Supreme Court.
>
Whatsw really funny is you have democrats saying that giving people priority
based on their race isnt racism. You have to be a real gore choad gulper to
make that statement in public.
Say good bye to alpha whore. The dark days of the clinton / gore trashing our
country are over!
C.V. Compton Shaw
Lars Eighner wrote:
In the long run, in my opinion, all forms of reverse discrimination will have a
highly adverse affect on the rights of minorities and women. Why? Because white
males will come to the conclusion that if they are not treated fairly as
individuals with the same rights and responsibilities as minorities, including
women, then they owe no ethical obligation to treat minorities and women fairly
and with justice. The slave has no moral duty to treat his slave master in an
ethical manner. Abraham Lincoln stated "As I would not be master. Neither would I
be slave." "A house divided against itself can not stand."
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented C V Compton Shaw
broadcast on alt.politics:
CVCS> Lars Eighner wrote:
>> In our last episode,
>> <A_L06.2550$k8.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, the lovely
>> and talented Frodo broadcast on alt.politics:
>>
F> ...and therefore illegal. Let's hope the Bush administration has
F> the balls to do something about it.
>> Too bad the 5th Circuit doesn't agree with you - and neither, for
>> that matter, does this Supreme Court.
>>
>> Live by the courts, die by the courts. What is Fraudulent-Elect
>> Bush going to do about it?
>>
>> -- Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/ My last
>> cow just died, so I won't need your bull anymore.
CVCS> In the long run, in my opinion, all forms of reverse
CVCS> discrimination will have a highly adverse affect on the rights
CVCS> of minorities and women. Why? Because white males will come to
CVCS> the conclusion that if they are not treated fairly as
CVCS> individuals with the same rights and responsibilities as
CVCS> minorities, including women, then they owe no ethical obligation
CVCS> to treat minorities and women fairly and with justice.
We are talking about the dumbest white boys anyway, who are likely
to find another reason to blame someone else for their failure if
they can't blame affirmative action. Affirmative action is never
going to keep the top 10% or the top 33% of white boys out of law
school/medical school/whatever. There is a simple remedy to those who
feel threatened by affirmative action: be the best, and you'll never
have to worry about it. It doesn't affect the first 10 spots or the
first 100 spots. It is about when you get down to spot number 438 -
whether one more mediocre white boy really has that much to contribute,
or whether giving someone else a chance might be more productive.
A white boy whose "only chance in life" is to claw his way into spot
438 is pretty much pond scum anyway.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Behaviorism is the art of pulling habits out of rats. -- O'Neill
AlbertR
opportunities to certain "minorities." There can be little doubt that this
is in fact reverse discrimination. When we do not select on the basis of
the "best qualified," what else can it be?
IMHO, AA perpetuates the belief that certain minorities do not have the
capacity and/or inherent ability to compete and therefore must be given
"special" consideration or opportunities, e.g., set asides, lower standards,
etc.
How can we ever have equality if all people are not treated equally?
Al
PS - Two wrongs don't make a right.
"Lars Eighner" <eig...@io.com> wrote in message
news:86wvciuz2...@dumpster.io.com...
EL PRESIDENTE
>Message-id: <86wvciuz2...@dumpster.io.com>
No, but it will keep out the ones that arent at the top. When 2 people score
equally, race shouldnt be a deciding factor. When one scores above the other,
race shouldnt give it to the lower of the 2. That is discrimination as well as
racisim no matter which race you choose over the other.
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented AlbertR
broadcast on alt.politics:
A> I am a believer in EEO. AA, however, goes beyond EEO and gives
A> special opportunities to certain "minorities." There can be little
A> doubt that this is in fact reverse discrimination. When we do not
A> select on the basis of the "best qualified," what else can it be?
Redress. People who began life under Jim Crow are still in the
workforce Their children, whose opportunities were limited by
Jim Crow, are still entering the workforce.
When people who have been running the score up for 400 years start
talking about it would all be fair if we just level the playing
field now, it is really very transparent. "Reverse discrimination"
is just a racist propaganda term. From time to time one of the
news shows sends out people with matching resumes and a hidden
camera. They always find plain old racism in hiring, residential
rentals and sales, and even in sales of products and services.
A> IMHO, AA perpetuates the belief that certain minorities do not have
A> the capacity and/or inherent ability to compete and therefore must
A> be given "special" consideration or opportunities, e.g., set
A> asides, lower standards, etc.
Bull. AA is based on the premise that slavery and Jim Crow were
terrible injustices which must be redressed.
A> How can we ever have equality if all people are not treated
A> equally?
How can we ever have equality if some people have a 400-year
headstart.
A> Al PS - Two wrongs don't make a right.
Compensating people for past wrongs isn't another wrong.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Love is the only game that is not called on account of darkness.
Eric Florack
Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>In our last episode, <eAce2RncAHA.319@cpmsnbbsa09>,
>the lovely and talented AlbertR
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>A> I am a believer in EEO. AA, however, goes beyond EEO and gives
>A> special opportunities to certain "minorities." There can be little
>A> doubt that this is in fact reverse discrimination. When we do not
>A> select on the basis of the "best qualified," what else can it be?
>
>Redress. People who began life under Jim Crow are still in the
>workforce Their children, whose opportunities were limited by
>Jim Crow, are still entering the workforce.
And what of the opportunities I have lost by means of revsrse
discrimination?
/E
Annoy a liberal, Inc
MW
Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
> In our last episode, <eAce2RncAHA.319@cpmsnbbsa09>,
> the lovely and talented AlbertR
> broadcast on alt.politics:
>
> A> I am a believer in EEO. AA, however, goes beyond EEO and gives
> A> special opportunities to certain "minorities." There can be little
> A> doubt that this is in fact reverse discrimination. When we do not
> A> select on the basis of the "best qualified," what else can it be?
>
> Redress.
But immigrants qualify for AA programs in many cases.
> People who began life under Jim Crow are still in the
> workforce Their children, whose opportunities were limited by
> Jim Crow, are still entering the workforce.
> When people who have been running the score up for 400 years start
> talking about it would all be fair if we just level the playing
> field now, it is really very transparent. "Reverse discrimination"
> is just a racist propaganda term. From time to time one of the
> news shows sends out people with matching resumes and a hidden
> camera. They always find plain old racism in hiring, residential
> rentals and sales, and even in sales of products and services.
> A> IMHO, AA perpetuates the belief that certain minorities do not have
> A> the capacity and/or inherent ability to compete and therefore must
> A> be given "special" consideration or opportunities, e.g., set
> A> asides, lower standards, etc.
>
> Bull. AA is based on the premise that slavery and Jim Crow were
> terrible injustices which must be redressed.
That's non-responsive. Does it or does it not reinforce such beliefs?
I agree with Al that it does, and moreover AA raises a reasonable
suspicion that blacks in various positions are not qualified for the
job. Why? Because AA often dictates that they don't have to be
qualified.
> A> How can we ever have equality if all people are not treated
> A> equally?
>
> How can we ever have equality if some people have a 400-year
> headstart.
Why do we have to have equality between races? We certainly don't have
equality among individuals. By the way, Americans of Jewish, East
Asian, or European descent have much more than a 400-year head start on
African-Americans. Evolution over tens of thousands of years has
produced genetic superiority of those groups over Africans in
intelligence.
> A> Al PS - Two wrongs don't make a right.
>
> Compensating people for past wrongs isn't another wrong.
But you're not compensating "people" for wrongs they have suffered;
you're trying to compensate **a** people by favoring all its members --
some of whom suffered no wrong -- over others -- some of whom did
nothing wrong. You're elevating race over all other characteristics.
AA is a racist concept.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented Eric Florack
broadcast on alt.politics:
EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:47:48 GMT,
EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>> In our last episode, <eAce2RncAHA.319@cpmsnbbsa09>, the lovely and
>> talented AlbertR broadcast on alt.politics:
>>
A> I am a believer in EEO. AA, however, goes beyond EEO and gives
A> special opportunities to certain "minorities." There can be little
A> doubt that this is in fact reverse discrimination. When we do not
A> select on the basis of the "best qualified," what else can it be?
>> Redress. People who began life under Jim Crow are still in the
>> workforce Their children, whose opportunities were limited by Jim
>> Crow, are still entering the workforce.
EF> And what of the opportunities I have lost by means of revsrse
EF> discrimination?
Those which you wrongly obtained as a beneficiary of Jim Crow.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage.
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented MW
broadcast on alt.politics:
M> Why do we have to have equality between races? We certainly don't
M> have equality among individuals. By the way, Americans of Jewish,
M> East Asian, or European descent have much more than a 400-year head
M> start on African-Americans. Evolution over tens of thousands of
M> years has produced genetic superiority of those groups over
M> Africans in intelligence.
Ha! The facade comes off. You are just a vile, lying racist. And
that is where all opposition to affirmative action comes from.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
My mail reader can beat up your mail reader.
Eric Florack
Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>
>EF> And what of the opportunities I have lost by means of revsrse
>EF> discrimination?
>
>Those which you wrongly obtained as a beneficiary of Jim Crow.
On what basis do you make this assumption?
Oh, that's right.Whatever am I thinking?
I'm white. I'm male, I'm hetrosexual, I'm married. I don't screw
around on my wife. I'm (gasp!) conservative. I also claim (horrors!)
Christianity.
Therefore, I can't be taken seriously.
hmmm?
Eric Florack
Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>In our last episode, <92lck0$ne3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>the lovely and talented MW
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>M> Why do we have to have equality between races? We certainly don't
>M> have equality among individuals. By the way, Americans of Jewish,
>M> East Asian, or European descent have much more than a 400-year head
>M> start on African-Americans. Evolution over tens of thousands of
>M> years has produced genetic superiority of those groups over
>M> Africans in intelligence.
>
>Ha! The facade comes off. You are just a vile, lying racist. And
>that is where all opposition to affirmative action comes from.
I am a firm beleiver in equall chances for a particular outcome.
However, measuring those chances by the outcome is the wrong way to
go. THe founders spoke of the 'pursuit of happiness' not the guarantee
of it.
MW
Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
> In our last episode, <92lck0$ne3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> the lovely and talented MW
> broadcast on alt.politics:
>
> M> Why do we have to have equality between races? We certainly don't
> M> have equality among individuals. By the way, Americans of Jewish,
> M> East Asian, or European descent have much more than a 400-year head
> M> start on African-Americans. Evolution over tens of thousands of
> M> years has produced genetic superiority of those groups over
> M> Africans in intelligence.
>
> Ha! The facade comes off. You are just a vile, lying racist.
Where's the lie? Where's the racism?
Your response is vacuous.
Frodo
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented Eric Florack
broadcast on alt.politics:
EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:44:47 GMT,
EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
EF> And what of the opportunities I have lost by means of revsrse
EF> discrimination?
>> Those which you wrongly obtained as a beneficiary of Jim Crow.
EF> On what basis do you make this assumption?
It's no assumption. You enjoy white-skin privilege which gives
you an unfair advantage in almost every aspect of life. Hundreds,
if not thousands, of experiments have shown - without exception -
that the advantage exists in a wide variety of social and economic
transactions.
EF> Oh, that's right.Whatever am I thinking?
EF> I'm white. I'm male, I'm hetrosexual, I'm married. I don't screw
EF> around on my wife. I'm (gasp!) conservative. I also claim
EF> (horrors!) Christianity.
EF> Therefore, I can't be taken seriously.
EF> hmmm?
You cannot be taken seriously when you pretend you know nothing about
the advantages you derive from 300 years of slavery, 100 years of
Jim Crow, and continuing institutional racism.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things.
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented Eric Florack
broadcast on alt.politics:
EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:44:49 GMT,
EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>> In our last episode, <92lck0$ne3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, the lovely and
>> talented MW broadcast on alt.politics:
>>
M> Why do we have to have equality between races? We certainly don't
M> have equality among individuals. By the way, Americans of Jewish,
M> East Asian, or European descent have much more than a 400-year head
M> start on African-Americans. Evolution over tens of thousands of
M> years has produced genetic superiority of those groups over
M> Africans in intelligence.
>> Ha! The facade comes off. You are just a vile, lying racist.
>> And that is where all opposition to affirmative action comes from.
EF> I am a firm beleiver in equall chances for a particular outcome.
EF> However, measuring those chances by the outcome is the wrong way
EF> to go. THe founders spoke of the 'pursuit of happiness' not the
EF> guarantee of it.
The "founders" also spoke of apportionment based on counting some
people as only 3/5ths of a person. They were perpetuating a horrible
wrong. They were wrong then. They are still wrong. The founders
of this country were racist bastards and there is nothing sacred about
anything they wrote or did.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented MW
broadcast on alt.politics:
M> In article <86snn5tql...@dumpster.io.com>, Lars Eighner
M> <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>> In our last episode, <92lck0$ne3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, the lovely and
>> talented MW broadcast on alt.politics:
>>
M> Why do we have to have equality between races? We certainly don't
M> have equality among individuals. By the way, Americans of Jewish,
M> East Asian, or European descent have much more than a 400-year head
M> start on African-Americans. Evolution over tens of thousands of
M> years has produced genetic superiority of those groups over
M> Africans in intelligence.
>> Ha! The facade comes off. You are just a vile, lying racist.
M> Where's the lie? Where's the racism?
The lie and the racism is in your claim about genetic superiority.
M> Your response is vacuous.
And you are still a lying racist.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Due to a mixup in Urology, orange juice will not be served this morning.
Eric Florack
Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>In our last episode, <3a4e765f.29445169@news-server>,
>the lovely and talented Eric Florack
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:44:47 GMT,
>EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>
>EF> And what of the opportunities I have lost by means of revsrse
>EF> discrimination?
>>> Those which you wrongly obtained as a beneficiary of Jim Crow.
>
>EF> On what basis do you make this assumption?
>
>It's no assumption.
Yes, it is.
> You enjoy white-skin privilege which gives
>you an unfair advantage in almost every aspect of life.
It most certainly does not.
>
>EF> Oh, that's right.Whatever am I thinking?
>
>EF> I'm white. I'm male, I'm hetrosexual, I'm married. I don't screw
>EF> around on my wife. I'm (gasp!) conservative. I also claim
>EF> (horrors!) Christianity.
>
>EF> Therefore, I can't be taken seriously.
>
>EF> hmmm?
>
>You cannot be taken seriously when you pretend you know nothing about
>the advantages you derive from 300 years of slavery, 100 years of
>Jim Crow, and continuing institutional racism.
I do know. Such things have not existed for several decades.
THey can be no longer claimed as an excuse.
MW
Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
> In our last episode, <3a4e76f5.29595596@news-server>,
> the lovely and talented Eric Florack
> broadcast on alt.politics:
>
> EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:44:49 GMT,
> EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>
> >> In our last episode, <92lck0$ne3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, the lovely and
> >> talented MW broadcast on alt.politics:
> >>
> M> Why do we have to have equality between races? We certainly don't
> M> have equality among individuals. By the way, Americans of Jewish,
> M> East Asian, or European descent have much more than a 400-year head
> M> start on African-Americans. Evolution over tens of thousands of
> M> years has produced genetic superiority of those groups over
> M> Africans in intelligence.
> >> Ha! The facade comes off. You are just a vile, lying racist.
> >> And that is where all opposition to affirmative action comes from.
>
> EF> I am a firm beleiver in equall chances for a particular outcome.
> EF> However, measuring those chances by the outcome is the wrong way
> EF> to go. THe founders spoke of the 'pursuit of happiness' not the
> EF> guarantee of it.
>
> The "founders" also spoke of apportionment based on counting some
> people as only 3/5ths of a person.
So what?
Southern states argued slaves should count as whole people since they
were people subject to the government; Northern states argued they
shouldn't count at all since they wouldn't vote. Each side in the
debate made the argument for self-interested reasons based on the
number of slaves in their states. The Founders reached a compromise in
which slaves would count as 3/5 of a person for purposes of
apportionment. It's grossly dishonest to imply -- as you do -- that
ANY of the founders thought that slaves were less than a full person.
> They were perpetuating a horrible
> wrong.
Slavery was wrong, but there was nothing wrong with the apportionment
system.
MW
Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
> In our last episode, <92m0m9$676$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> the lovely and talented MW
> broadcast on alt.politics:
>
> M> In article <86snn5tql...@dumpster.io.com>, Lars Eighner
> M> <eig...@io.com> wrote:
> >> In our last episode, <92lck0$ne3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, the lovely and
> >> talented MW broadcast on alt.politics:
> >>
> M> Why do we have to have equality between races? We certainly don't
> M> have equality among individuals. By the way, Americans of Jewish,
> M> East Asian, or European descent have much more than a 400-year head
> M> start on African-Americans. Evolution over tens of thousands of
> M> years has produced genetic superiority of those groups over
> M> Africans in intelligence.
> >> Ha! The facade comes off. You are just a vile, lying racist.
>
> M> Where's the lie? Where's the racism?
>
> The lie and the racism is in your claim about genetic superiority.
What part of Minnesota are you from? (Eller, kanske, bor du i
sverige?) Do you know any black people?
The empirical evidence that most people see is overwhelming.
The scientific studies continually confirm what people observe: the
average IQ of blacks is far lower than that of other races. You can
pretend that the difference is environmental rather than genetic, but
that's absurd. Black IQ's are lower in all societies -- even all-black
African societies in which there are no whites to blame for blacks'
shortcomings.
> M> Your response is vacuous.
>
> And you are still a lying racist.
Jag tror att du kan inte tala engelsk. Telling the truth is not
"lying".
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented Eric Florack
broadcast on alt.politics:
EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sun, 31 Dec 2000 02:51:32 GMT,
EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>> You cannot be taken seriously when you pretend you know nothing
>> about the advantages you derive from 300 years of slavery, 100
>> years of Jim Crow, and continuing institutional racism.
EF> I do know. Such things have not existed for several decades. THey
EF> can be no longer claimed as an excuse.
Such things persist today. It is nonsense to claim they have not
existed for several decades. And what is several decades compared
with 400 years? You and MW are just two sides of the same phony
coin.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Have an adequate day.
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented MW
broadcast on alt.politics:
M> In article <867l4hthz...@dumpster.io.com>, Lars Eighner
M> <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>> The lie and the racism is in your claim about genetic superiority.
M> What part of Minnesota are you from? (Eller, kanske, bor du i
M> sverige?) Do you know any black people?
M> The empirical evidence that most people see is overwhelming.
M> The scientific studies continually confirm what people observe: the
M> average IQ of blacks is far lower than that of other races.
No scientific study has ever found any such thing. You are a liar
and a racist.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Dynamic linking error: Your mistake is now everywhere.
TCarr13397
>the lovely and talented Eric Florack
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:47:48 GMT,
>EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>
>>> In our last episode, <eAce2RncAHA.319@cpmsnbbsa09>, the lovely and
>>> talented AlbertR broadcast on alt.politics:
>>>
>A> I am a believer in EEO. AA, however, goes beyond EEO and gives
>A> special opportunities to certain "minorities." There can be little
>A> doubt that this is in fact reverse discrimination. When we do not
>A> select on the basis of the "best qualified," what else can it be?
>>> Redress. People who began life under Jim Crow are still in the
>>> workforce Their children, whose opportunities were limited by Jim
>>> Crow, are still entering the workforce.
>
>EF> And what of the opportunities I have lost by means of revsrse
>EF> discrimination?
>
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com
>Those which you wrongly obtained as a beneficiary of Jim Crow.
>
Feel free to explain your quaint theory on how my son who is applying to a
major university next year has benefited from "jim crow".
Yet "certain" (not all) minority students will recieve the equivalent of a
full grade point GPA "adjustment" on the sole basis of the color of their skin
or the ancestry of their parents.
Kinda hard to impress upon a young person that one can achieve their goals
with a discriminatory, government approved ,acceptance program.
T.Carr
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented TCarr13397
broadcast on alt.politics:
T> Lars Eighner eig...@io.com
>> Those which you wrongly obtained as a beneficiary of Jim Crow.
T> Feel free to explain your quaint theory on how my son who is
T> applying to a major university next year has benefited from "jim
T> crow".
If your son is white (as if, with your politics, he could be anything
else) he benefits from white skin privilege in virtually every
social and economic transaction in life. Will he live off campus?
He will find people who will rent to him. Will he buy a car with
his savings from his summer job? He will receive a better initial
offer and will be able to negotiate a better final price than if
his skin were dark. Will he want to go to Denny's for breakfast
after a night on the town? Will he want favorable treatment from
instructors and administrators?
T> Yet "certain" (not all) minority students will recieve the
T> equivalent of a full grade point GPA "adjustment" on the sole basis
T> of the color of their skin or the ancestry of their parents.
And so it should be.
T> Kinda hard to impress upon a young person that one can achieve
T> their goals with a discriminatory, government approved ,acceptance
T> program.
The best won't be bumped by affirmative action. GPAs can't be
adjusted above 4.0. Affirmative action may, indeed, mean that some
37th percentile minority student gets placed ahead of some 39th
percentile Anglo student. No 37th percentile minority student is
going to be placed ahead of a 99th percentile Anglo student. If he
wants to avoid any possibility of being affected by affirmative
action, all he needs to do is to be the best.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Someday you will look back on this moment and plow into a parked car.
MW
Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
> In our last episode, <92maqj$djt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> the lovely and talented MW
> broadcast on alt.politics:
>
> M> In article <867l4hthz...@dumpster.io.com>, Lars Eighner
> M> <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>
> >> The lie and the racism is in your claim about genetic superiority.
>
> M> What part of Minnesota are you from? (Eller, kanske, bor du i
> M> sverige?) Do you know any black people?
>
> M> The empirical evidence that most people see is overwhelming.
>
> M> The scientific studies continually confirm what people observe: the
> M> average IQ of blacks is far lower than that of other races.
>
> No scientific study has ever found any such thing.
Here's a link to a summary of eleven such studies:
http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/People/Lynn/lynn-race-iq-
table3.html
Eric Florack
Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>M> The scientific studies continually confirm what people observe: the
>M> average IQ of blacks is far lower than that of other races.
>
>No scientific study has ever found any such thing. You are a liar
>and a racist.
>
Lars, Lars, Lars...
You've just lost the argument, Bucko...
You should read more books.
Start with "The Bell Curve"
/E
Eric Florack
Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>EF> I do know. Such things have not existed for several decades. THey
>EF> can be no longer claimed as an excuse.
>
>Such things persist today. It is nonsense to claim they have not
>existed for several decades. And what is several decades compared
>with 400 years? You and MW are just two sides of the same phony
>coin.
No, Lars, they no longer exist, as such.
EL PRESIDENTE
>Message-id: <867l4hvoh...@dumpster.io.com>
>
>In our last episode, <eAce2RncAHA.319@cpmsnbbsa09>,
>the lovely and talented AlbertR
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>A> I am a believer in EEO. AA, however, goes beyond EEO and gives
>A> special opportunities to certain "minorities." There can be little
>A> doubt that this is in fact reverse discrimination. When we do not
>A> select on the basis of the "best qualified," what else can it be?
>
>Redress. People who began life under Jim Crow are still in the
>workforce Their children, whose opportunities were limited by
>Jim Crow, are still entering the workforce.
>
>When people who have been running the score up for 400 years start
>talking about it would all be fair if we just level the playing
>field now, it is really very transparent. "Reverse discrimination"
>is just a racist propaganda term. From time to time one of the
>news shows sends out people with matching resumes and a hidden
>camera. They always find plain old racism in hiring, residential
>rentals and sales, and even in sales of products and services.
>
>A> IMHO, AA perpetuates the belief that certain minorities do not have
>A> the capacity and/or inherent ability to compete and therefore must
>A> be given "special" consideration or opportunities, e.g., set
>A> asides, lower standards, etc.
>
>Bull. AA is based on the premise that slavery and Jim Crow were
>terrible injustices which must be redressed.
Lars, that was years ago. You know my heratige is one of the romans enslaving
my people , the normans, and I want equal opportunity by making all itialian
companies hire us normans before they can hire any qualified people to redress
this horrible injustice that I still feel as I walk around today oppressed by
the itialians.
>
>A> How can we ever have equality if all people are not treated
>A> equally?
>
>How can we ever have equality if some people have a 400-year
>headstart.
Or a 4000 year head start as in my case.
>
>A> Al PS - Two wrongs don't make a right.
>
>Compensating people for past wrongs isn't another wrong.
People compensating for the wrongs that werent part of the group that caused
the wrongs is. Giving compensation from people that did not do the wrongs to
people who were not wronged is very wrong.
>
>--
> Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
> Love is the only game that is not called on account of darkness.
>
>
>
>
>
>
vola...@my-deja.com
Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
> In our last episode, <3A4D56C7...@swbell.net>,
> the lovely and talented C V Compton Shaw
> broadcast on alt.politics:
>
> >> In our last episode,
> >> and talented Frodo broadcast on alt.politics:
> >>
> F> ...and therefore illegal. Let's hope the Bush administration has
> F> the balls to do something about it.
> >> Too bad the 5th Circuit doesn't agree with you - and neither, for
> >> that matter, does this Supreme Court.
> >>
> >> Live by the courts, die by the courts. What is Fraudulent-Elect
> >> Bush going to do about it?
> >>
> >> -- Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/ My last
> >> cow just died, so I won't need your bull anymore.
>
> CVCS> In the long run, in my opinion, all forms of reverse
> CVCS> discrimination will have a highly adverse affect on the rights
> CVCS> of minorities and women. Why? Because white males will come to
> CVCS> the conclusion that if they are not treated fairly as
> CVCS> individuals with the same rights and responsibilities as
> CVCS> minorities, including women, then they owe no ethical obligation
> CVCS> to treat minorities and women fairly and with justice.
>
> We are talking about the dumbest white boys anyway, who are likely
> to find another reason to blame someone else for their failure if
> they can't blame affirmative action. Affirmative action is never
> going to keep the top 10% or the top 33% of white boys out of law
> feel threatened by affirmative action: be the best, and you'll never
> have to worry about it. It doesn't affect the first 10 spots or the
> first 100 spots. It is about when you get down to spot number 438 -
> whether one more mediocre white boy really has that much to
contribute,
> or whether giving someone else a chance might be more productive.
> A white boy whose "only chance in life" is to claw his way into spot
> 438 is pretty much pond scum anyway.
>
O'Neill
inappropriate. C.V. Compton Shaw
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented EL PRESIDENTE
broadcast on alt.politics:
EP> Lars, that was years ago.
People who began their lives under Jim Crow are still in the work
force. What is more, the discrimination that still exists in
housing, employment, housing -- virtually every aspect of social
and economic life -- far exceeds the handful of affirmative action
programs that ever existed.
EP> You know my heratige is one of the
EP> romans enslaving my people ,
The Romans never practiced chattel slavery. Neither did the Greeks,
the Hebrews, the Arabs, or the Africans. The only places in the world
where chattel slavery has ever existed are North America and Brazil.
Roman "slavery" was a walk in the park compared to chattel slavery.
EP> the normans, and I want equal
EP> opportunity by making all itialian companies hire us normans
EP> before they can hire any qualified people to redress this horrible
EP> injustice that I still feel as I walk around today oppressed by
EP> the itialians.
Good. Go back to Europe. America doesn't need racists like you.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented Eric Florack
broadcast on alt.politics:
EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sun, 31 Dec 2000 05:56:04 GMT,
EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
M> The scientific studies continually confirm what people observe: the
M> average IQ of blacks is far lower than that of other races.
>> No scientific study has ever found any such thing. You are a liar
>> and a racist.
>>
EF> Lars, Lars, Lars... You've just lost the argument, Bucko... You
EF> should read more books. Start with "The Bell Curve"
_The Bell Curve_ is thoroughly discredited for the propaganda piece
that it is. What's your next cite, _The Turner Diaries_?
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
An effective way to deal with predators is to taste terrible.
Eric Florack
Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>In our last episode, <3a4f594f.87541047@news-server>,
>the lovely and talented Eric Florack
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sun, 31 Dec 2000 05:56:04 GMT,
>EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>
>M> The scientific studies continually confirm what people observe: the
>M> average IQ of blacks is far lower than that of other races.
>>> No scientific study has ever found any such thing. You are a liar
>>> and a racist.
>>>
>
>EF> Lars, Lars, Lars... You've just lost the argument, Bucko... You
>EF> should read more books. Start with "The Bell Curve"
>
>_The Bell Curve_ is thoroughly discredited for the propaganda piece
>that it is. What's your next cite, _The Turner Diaries_?
Discredited by whom?
Oh, yes... liberal operatives.
Try again.
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented Eric Florack
broadcast on alt.politics:
EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:17:51 GMT,
EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>> _The Bell Curve_ is thoroughly discredited for the propaganda
>> piece that it is. What's your next cite, _The Turner Diaries_?
EF> Discredited by whom? Oh, yes... liberal operatives. Try again.
Let's see. This would make every peer reviewed journal with
competence in psychometrics and the overwhelming majority of
credentialed psychologists liberal operatives. Everyone who knows
what he or she is talking about is a liberal operative?
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
Save the Rainforest! Eat a vegetarian!
AlbertR
For a number of years, I was previously a Branch Chief of a large office
under the federal government. Throughout that time, I always made
employment, training, and promotion decisions on the basis of equal
opportunity. I always tried my best to select the most qualified person.
(Regardless whether Black or White, male or female, etc.) Then, along came
AA. At the beginning, it wasn't so bad. It was simply more emphasis on
EEO, training for upward mobility, and encouraging minorities to apply for
positions they previously would not be hired for or where they were
reluctant to apply thinking the field was closed to them.
However, AA evolved into much more. In about 2 or 3 years we had quotas and
statistical goals, and where these goals were not met, the standards for
hiring or promotion changed. Let me give you just one of many examples.
Take the government position of clerk-typist. Although we were attempting
to hiring minorities for these positions, only a low percentage of them were
able to pass the typing test at the time. In order to nevertheless get more
minorities into these government jobs, the standards were changed. They
issued regulations elimininating the typing test. After that, we had a lot
more minorities eligible for the positions. There was just one thing wrong.
When they came on board, they couldn't do the job. If the supervisor
attempted to remove or demote them, a discrimination complaint would
frequently be filed. It was a mess and that is about the time I left. I
figured it was time to let someone else try to walk through that brick wall.
Incidentally, I had no objection to training minorities so their skill
levels could be brought up to par, but AA went beyond that. All to often,
it resulted in the less qualified (or an unqualified) person getting the
job.
As one trained and experienced in management, I know it is a great mistake
whenever we hire or promote anyone but the best qualified regardless of
race, nationality, or creed. Today, there are opportunities for all if they
have ability and are willing to do what is necessary to get qualified.
Al
Eric Florack
Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>In our last episode, <3a4fa831.107735896@news-server>,
>the lovely and talented Eric Florack
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:17:51 GMT,
>EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>>> _The Bell Curve_ is thoroughly discredited for the propaganda
>>> piece that it is. What's your next cite, _The Turner Diaries_?
>
>EF> Discredited by whom? Oh, yes... liberal operatives. Try again.
>
>Let's see. This would make every peer reviewed journal with
>competence in psychometrics and the overwhelming majority of
>credentialed psychologists liberal operatives. Everyone who knows
>what he or she is talking about is a liberal operative?
>
Rather the opposite, really. Such do NOT know what they're talking
about, mostly for never having been in the real world.
EL PRESIDENTE
>Message-id: <86pui8nv1...@dumpster.io.com>
africa too?
Or are you just racist against the oppressed people that were slaves under the
romans?
EL PRESIDENTE
>Message-id: <86pui9rv8...@dumpster.io.com>
>
>In our last episode, <92maqj$djt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>the lovely and talented MW
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>M> In article <867l4hthz...@dumpster.io.com>, Lars Eighner
>M> <eig...@io.com> wrote:
>
>>> The lie and the racism is in your claim about genetic superiority.
>
>M> What part of Minnesota are you from? (Eller, kanske, bor du i
>M> sverige?) Do you know any black people?
>
>M> The empirical evidence that most people see is overwhelming.
>
>M> The scientific studies continually confirm what people observe: the
>M> average IQ of blacks is far lower than that of other races.
>
>No scientific study has ever found any such thing. You are a liar
>and a racist.
>
Oh yea, except an entire book that was based on scientific studies called the
"bell Curve".
>
>--
> Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
> Dynamic linking error: Your mistake is now everywhere.
>
>
>
>
>
>
TCarr13397
>the lovely and talented TCarr13397
>broadcast on alt.politics:
>
>
>T> Lars Eighner eig...@io.com
>>> Those which you wrongly obtained as a beneficiary of Jim Crow.
>
>T> Feel free to explain your quaint theory on how my son who is
>T> applying to a major university next year has benefited from "jim
>T> crow".
>
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com
>If your son is white (as if, with your politics, he could be anything
>else) he benefits from white skin privilege in virtually every
>social and economic transaction in life.
Nonsense. EEO/AA laws have been in effect his entire life. Over a entire
generation the society/government has adopted racial preferences to address
real and iminaged "problems"
When does this government sponsored discrimination end? There is no objective
standard to measure the "problem" or the "success" of the remedy.
Will he live off campus?
>He will find people who will rent to him. Will he buy a car with
>his savings from his summer job?
He will find a way to meet the finaincial obligations to attend the
University. Through achievement based scholarships, and savings. If accepted he
will attend his preferred Universtiy.
We have been saving for all of our childrens educational needs. Its a
conservative thing..I wouldnt expect you to understand.
He will receive a better initial
>offer and will be able to negotiate a better final price than if
>his skin were dark.
LMAO You really ought to get out in the "real world" a bit. Qualified
minorities with college degrees command a premium starting salary, not less
(especially true with technical, medical or specialized degrees)
Will he want to go to Denny's for breakfast
>after a night on the town? Will he want favorable treatment from
>instructors and administrators?
You mean the favorable treatment that is extended to "special" minorities and
athletic jocks that will not be flunked?
>
>T> Yet "certain" (not all) minority students will recieve the
>T> equivalent of a full grade point GPA "adjustment" on the sole basis
>T> of the color of their skin or the ancestry of their parents.
>
>And so it should be.
Why? You have yet to make a good argument why a child who was raised during
the entire EEO/AA laws were in effect should be discriminated against.
>
>T> Kinda hard to impress upon a young person that one can achieve
>T> their goals with a discriminatory, government approved ,acceptance
>T> program.
>
>The best won't be bumped by affirmative action.
If you are arguing about the "best" then let each student apply based on a
Social Security number. The grade points, test scores, extra curriculars etc...
can all be weighted on a merit based, non discriminatory manner.
GPAs can't be
>adjusted above 4.0.
Yes, but at the university my son wishes to attend, a minority with a 3.0
gets bumped to the equivalent to a 4.0
Affirmative action may, indeed, mean that some
>37th percentile minority student gets placed ahead of some 39th
>percentile Anglo student.
Here is a hint..Look at the University of Michigan admissions policies. On a
150 point scale, 20 points are awarded based on race/ethnic backround if one is
from the "correct" minority group.
Now look a a kid trying to get into one of the restricted enrollmet
programs.)ie medical, sciences,law,etc...) Why should any child be given the
equivalent of a full grade point boost to be accepted into a limited access
degree program?
All applicants have been raised under EEO/AA, and at some point the playing
field ought to reflect individual effort and acomplishments, not things the
student has no input or control over.
No 37th percentile minority student is
>going to be placed ahead of a 99th percentile Anglo student. If he
>wants to avoid any possibility of being affected by affirmative
>action, all he needs to do is to be the best.
Only the "best" apply for the degree program he is interested in. Providing
only "certain" minorities the equivalent of a full grade point "boost" after a
generation of EEO/AA is indefensible.
Thankfully some states have seen the light. Mine is not one of them
T.Carr
kingk...@my-deja.com
Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
It is about when you get down to spot number 438 -
> whether one more mediocre white boy really has that much to
contribute,
> or whether giving someone else a chance might be more productive.
> A white boy whose "only chance in life" is to claw his way into spot
> 438 is pretty much pond scum anyway.
But a black boy who can't even claw his way to 438th should get in
just because he is black. Yah, thats not racism!
Ron Leavens
EL PRESIDENTE wrote
>
>No, but it will keep out the ones that arent at the top. When 2 people
score
>equally, race shouldnt be a deciding factor. When one scores above the
other,
>race shouldnt give it to the lower of the 2. That is discrimination as
well as
>racisim no matter which race you choose over the other.
>
EP, let me tell you how I heard it expressed at a GM picnic
back in the late 1950s: "Do you know that if a white guy and
a nigger apply for the same job, and the white guy is only a
little more qualified than the nigger, the nigger will get the job?"
So, I'm sorry, but I can't listen to the anti-AA argument to this
day without hearing the unspoken word "nigger" in there.
I'm hoping Colin Powell's status in the new administration
will enable him to advance his affirmation of affirmative action.
I don't want to imply that all anti-AA people are racist.
But there's no doubt that many are.
rl
vola...@my-deja.com
> the lovely and talented C V Compton Shaw
> broadcast on alt.politics:
>
saw. He really "whoops" "uppty white boys" when they even look like they
want equal rights and responsibilities. He knows that if we let "white
boy slaves" get an education, they might become even more "uppity and
want more rights. He gives them a real "whip lashing every now and then
just to show whose in charge". He's the best "white boy slave trainer I
eva saw." He is rude and vulgar too just like the best of the slave
driver trainers! They all call him "Lars the white male slave
driver-mean,rude,cruel, and oppresive." He knows how to make the best
white male slaves-he is a good slave trainer!" The best people hire him
to make good white male slaves including the Feminists-they love him. He
is typical of the best "white male slave drivers in our country now,
vulgar, unprincipled, oppressive, and cruel." He is the best slave
trainer and driver of white males. Yes vulgar, cruel, and oppressive! I
sing your praises "Massa Eighner" cause I know that if I don't say that
you are the best "massa", the next time you "whop me", you will hit me
real hard. Now I will sing a slave song: "Nobody knows the trouble I
has. Nobody but Jesus" Please don't whoop me massa Eighner!
Eric Florack
Leavens" <bay...@pioneer.net> wrote:
>
>I'm hoping Colin Powell's status in the new administration
>will enable him to advance his affirmation of affirmative action.
Actually, his success will cause Afirmative racism to decline, since
his successs was had without it.
Thus proving it's not needed.
EL PRESIDENTE
>Date: 12/31/00 11:07 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <92pan1$phj$1...@quark.scn.rain.com>
>
>
>EL PRESIDENTE wrote
>
>>
>>No, but it will keep out the ones that arent at the top. When 2 people
>score
>>equally, race shouldnt be a deciding factor. When one scores above the
>other,
>>race shouldnt give it to the lower of the 2. That is discrimination as
>well as
>>racisim no matter which race you choose over the other.
>>
>
>
>EP, let me tell you how I heard it expressed at a GM picnic
>back in the late 1950s: "Do you know that if a white guy and
>a nigger apply for the same job, and the white guy is only a
>little more qualified than the nigger, the nigger will get the job?"
You know how I learned about AA? I saw the fortune 10 company I work for end
up closing an entire section of its buisness because they had some govt
contracts and had to be extra special AA. They hired a black woman to run the
place that was straight out of an all black diploma mill, with NO experience
what so ever. The first memo she wrote should have fortold the future, you
see, she was illiterate, but she had a BS in chemistry, with NO experience
telling the PhDs' how to do their jobs. The first memo went something like
this:
"I knows youse peoples dont know abouts me, but Is gonna ......." Yea, that AA
is a GREAT freaking program. The government department that we had contracts
with would laugh at us and say we had "management of known quality". The next
year they decided not to fund the contract that ended up putting 300 scientists
out on the streets. It was not just her fault, we had unqualified people from
top to bottom thanks to AA! Then when I was to hire people, the head of the
HR department would come to me and say "You can hire who ever you want as long
as they are a minority, preferably a 2 pointer". You know what a 2 pointer
is? That is a minority that is either disabled, or a woman. A 3 pointer would
have made them do back flips.
>
>So, I'm sorry, but I can't listen to the anti-AA argument to this
>day without hearing the unspoken word "nigger" in there.
>I'm hoping Colin Powell's status in the new administration
>will enable him to advance his affirmation of affirmative action.
>
>I don't want to imply that all anti-AA people are racist.
>But there's no doubt that many are.
But since pro AA people are making decisions based on race the ALL have to be
racists.
>
>rl
MW
Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
> In our last episode, <3a4fa831.107735896@news-server>,
> the lovely and talented Eric Florack
> broadcast on alt.politics:
>
> EF> In our last exciting episode, on Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:17:51 GMT,
> EF> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> wrote:
> >> _The Bell Curve_ is thoroughly discredited for the propaganda
> >> piece that it is. What's your next cite, _The Turner Diaries_?
>
> EF> Discredited by whom? Oh, yes... liberal operatives. Try again.
>
> Let's see. This would make every peer reviewed journal with
> competence in psychometrics and the overwhelming majority of
> credentialed psychologists liberal operatives.
Funny -- I don't see any names or publications in your response.
Surely it would be easy to provide at least some examples supporting
your assertion.