We should be teaching ABOUT religion in schools
American Jesus
where kids sharpen their teeth and learn social skills. They also
learn how other kids are different.
Well, one of our largest differences is in our spirituality and
religion, or lack thereof. Just imagine this: kids of all different
religious backgrounds learning about other beliefs from other kids at
school. It only promotes more understanding and more tolerance. You
could have one class a week or every two weeks where kids share their
religious beliefs and those of their families.
Now, before you start in with the separation of church and state, let
me say that I already know about that. However, if we are at a point
where kids remain ignorant because of a philosophy, then that
philosophy is being misused.
Additionally, having kids participate in projects where they recreate
aspects of other religions (not acting, but using construction paper,
crayons, etc) only promotes tolerance and greater understanding.
For you lefties out there, please consider this before you stomp on my
idea. This is the perfect solution to the debate about religion in
school. Rather than fighting the prayer of one religion, you can
promote so much learning and peace by teaching kids at a young age
about all of the various beliefs. In case you are wondering, I belong
to no religion, I am agnostic.
Now, about the prayer part. What is so wrong with taking 2 minutes out
of each day to say thanks to a god? Is two minutes a day really a
threat to the United States government? Muslims need to pray five
times each day, but I'm sure something can be worked out. If we can
put men on the moon then we can solve this one.
So you see, with a little perspective, we can find a compromise that
benefits the ideals of different sides.
Kevin Cunningham
"American Jesus" <zz...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1152474364....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
In GA we teach a high school course about the bible, all factual stuff. And
yes, any prayer is a violation of church and state. Any violation is
legally and morally wrong.
ZenIsWhen
news:1152474364....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> where kids sharpen their teeth and learn social skills. They also
> learn how other kids are different.
>
> Well, one of our largest differences is in our spirituality and
> religion, or lack thereof. Just imagine this: kids of all different
> religious backgrounds learning about other beliefs from other kids at
> school. It only promotes more understanding and more tolerance. You
> could have one class a week or every two weeks where kids share their
> religious beliefs and those of their families.
Whoa! - First of all, there is little enough time to cover ALL the subjects
children already have to learn.
Second - who's going to teach these classes? Unbiased professionals, or
fanatical preachers?
Third, and most important, it is the RELIGIOUS REICH that want NO PART of
(politically correct) understanding and tolerance of others!
gpa...@bayou.com
Kids already talk to each other about their faith, all they want to.
Kids can pray, alone or in groups, silently or out loud, at public
schools, as long as it does not interfere with the school functions.
To the extent that they do not is because they do not want to. School
officials should not participate as they are agents of a government and
can use their control of the students' grades to intimidate the
students to accept the agents' doctrine.
Why do you want to allow the school teachers to control the students'
religious thinking? Not all of our teachers are liberals and If we
allow those "bad eggs" to intimidate students to accept the teacher's
doctrine, we do our students harm.
Below is a part of the policy of the U. S. Department of Education's
concerning school prayer. There is more on the web.
RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS
Student prayer and religious discussion: The Establishment Clause of
the First Amendment does not prohibit purely private religious speech
by students. Students therefore have the same right to engage in
individual or group prayer and religious discussion during the school
day as they do to engage in other comparable activity. For example,
students may read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before
meals, and pray before tests to the same extent they may engage in
comparable nondisruptive activities. Local school authorities possess
substantial discretion to impose rules of order and other pedagogical
restrictions on student activities, but they may not structure or
administer such rules to discriminate against religious activity or
speech.
Generally, students may pray in a nondisruptive manner when not engaged
in school activities or instruction, and subject to the rules that
normally pertain in the applicable setting. Specifically, students in
informal settings, such as cafeterias and hallways, may pray and
discuss their religious views with each other, subject to the same
rules of order as apply to other student activities and speech.
Students may also speak to, and attempt to persuade, their peers about
religious topics just as they do with regard to political topics.
School officials, however, should intercede to stop student speech that
constitutes harassment aimed at a student or a group of students.
Students may also participate in before or after school events with
religious content, such as "see you at the flag pole" gatherings, on
the same terms as they may participate in other noncurriculum
activities on school premises. School officials may neither discourage
nor encourage participation in such an event.
The right to engage in voluntary prayer or religious discussion free
from discrimination does not include the right to have a captive
audience listen, or to compel other students to participate. Teachers
and school administrators should ensure that no student is in any way
coerced to participate in religious activity.
Graduation prayer and baccalaureates: Under current Supreme Court
decisions, school officials may not mandate or organize prayer at
graduation, nor organize religious baccalaureate ceremonies. If a
school generally opens its facilities to private groups, it must make
its facilities available on the same terms to organizers of privately
sponsored religious baccalaureate services. A school may not extend
preferential treatment to baccalaureate ceremonies and may in some
instances be obliged to disclaim official endorsement of such
ceremonies.
Official neutrality regarding religious activity: Teachers and school
administrators, when acting in those capacities, are representatives of
the state and are prohibited by the establishment clause from
soliciting or encouraging religious activity, and from participating in
such activity with students. Teachers and administrators also are
prohibited from discouraging activity because of its religious content,
and from soliciting or encouraging antireligious activity.
Teaching about religion: Public schools may not provide religious
instruction, but they may teach about religion, including the Bible or
other scripture: the history of religion, comparative religion, the
Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature, and the role of religion in
the history of the United States and other countries all are
permissible public school subjects. Similarly, it is permissible to
consider religious influences on art, music, literature, and social
studies. Although public schools may teach about religious holidays,
including their religious aspects, and may celebrate the secular
aspects of holidays, schools may not observe holidays as religious
events or promote such observance by students.
Student assignments: Students may express their beliefs about religion
in the form of homework, artwork, and other written and oral
assignments free of discrimination based on the religious content of
their submissions. Such home and classroom work should be judged by
ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, and against
other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school.
Religious literature: Students have a right to distribute religious
literature to their schoolmates on the same terms as they are permitted
to distribute other literature that is unrelated to school curriculum
or activities. Schools may impose the same reasonable time, place, and
manner or other constitutional restrictions on distribution of
religious literature as they do on nonschool literature generally, but
they may not single out religious literature for special regulation.
Religious excusals: Subject to applicable State laws, schools enjoy
substantial discretion to excuse individual students from lessons that
are objectionable to the student or the students' parents on religious
or other conscientious grounds. However, students generally do not have
a Federal right to be excused from lessons that may be inconsistent
with their religious beliefs or practices. School officials may neither
encourage nor discourage students from availing themselves of an
excusal option.
Released time: Subject to applicable State laws, schools have the
discretion to dismiss students to off-premises religious instruction,
provided that schools do not encourage or discourage participation or
penalize those who do not attend. Schools may not allow religious
instruction by outsiders on school premises during the school day.
Teaching values: Though schools must be neutral with respect to
religion, they may play an active role with respect to teaching civic
values and virtue, and the moral code that holds us together as a
community. The fact that some of these values are held also by
religions does not make it unlawful to teach them in school.
Student garb: Schools enjoy substantial discretion in adopting policies
relating to student dress and school uniforms. Students generally have
no Federal right to be exempted from religiously-neutral and generally
applicable school dress rules based on their religious beliefs or
practices; however, schools may not single out religious attire in
general, or attire of a particular religion, for prohibition or
regulation. Students may display religious messages on items of
clothing to the same extent that they are permitted to display other
comparable messages. Religious messages may not be singled out for
suppression, but rather are subject to the same rules as generally
apply to comparable messages.
NeoLibertarian
American Jesus wrote:
> I see schools not just as sterile learning environments but places
> where kids sharpen their teeth and learn social skills. They also
> learn how other kids are different.
>
> Well, one of our largest differences is in our spirituality and
> religion, or lack thereof. Just imagine this: kids of all different
> religious backgrounds learning about other beliefs from other kids at
> school. It only promotes more understanding and more tolerance. You
> could have one class a week or every two weeks where kids share their
> religious beliefs and those of their families.
>
> Now, before you start in with the separation of church and state, let
> me say that I already know about that. However, if we are at a point
> where kids remain ignorant because of a philosophy, then that
> philosophy is being misused.
High School level isn't the place for comparative religion. It's a
mighty big subject--bigger than most teachers, let alone most 17 year
old students.
Kids need to learn about American History in school. The Constitution.
World History.
They need to be able to write coherent sentences, and spell.
Math. Multiplication, division, fractions. Algebra and Calculus for
advanced students.
Logic. They should learn 10 or so basic logical fallacies.
No 12th grader should be able to graduate without proving he or she can
calculate annual interest rates.
You take care of all that, and then you can talk about adding to the
curriculum.
--
NeoLibertarian
American Jesus
Well you have a good point; I guess our students aren't doing so well
these days. Maybe later.
American Jesus
I know, that's why this is a brilliant compromise! If they want
school prayer then they have to learn about all the other religions.
If they don't like it then they can send their kids to a fucking
private school.
You have to learn to take what your enemy is doing and turn it
against them.
Scotius
wrote:
It certainly is a good idea that you've got, but the left
won't go for it. For some reason, they just have a thing against
religion. Many on the right won't go for it either, since it would be
treating all religions equally. To a degree that's a valid point. For
instance, I don't care what the radicals say, it would not be
appropriate to teach about satanism, period. I'm okay with teaching
about Islam and Buddhism however.
American Jesus
Well the community would decide what is appropriate. I don't really
even consider Satanism a valid religion in its own right, it is more
like a smaller sect based on a Christian entity. But you could start
with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism.
Well Done
>In GA we teach a high school course about the bible, all factual stuff. And
>yes, any prayer is a violation of church and state. Any violation is
>legally and morally wrong.
>
Read the constitution. All it says is that the state shall not
establish a state religion. That's it.
--
): "I may make you feel, but I can't make you think" :(
(: Off the monitor, through the modem, nothing but net :)
Bush Dictatorship
wrote:
>I see schools not just as sterile learning environments but places
Oh it's allowed, in fact it's even required by 7th grade students, to
teach them about Islam, even the courts ruled it's allowed. But it's
against the law to mention Jesus, God, Lord etc., but Allah is ok.
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/islamS.htm
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Bush Dictatorship
Well the courts seem to disagree with you. It's against the law to
teach about God, Jesus, Christianity, but legal and required no less
for 7th grade students to be taught to pray to Allah, memorize
prayers, dress up as Muslims etc.
My guess is because Allah isn't mentioned in the Constitution, but
God is. This being the case, then our kids can't be taught about the
Constitution, in fact it's not even allowed to be seen in a classroom.
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/islamS.htm
Lloyd King
"Bush Dictatorship" <USGov=Terro...@world.com> wrote in message
news:b8iab25g4h2bkfu0d...@4ax.com...
>>> Now, about the prayer part. What is so wrong with taking 2 minutes out
>>> of each day to say thanks to a god?
Whose god? Can I make your kids pray to my god? Will you make my kid pray
to your god? Will Protestants have to pray to the Virgin Mary? Will
Satanists get their prayers as well?
> Well the courts seem to disagree with you. It's against the law to
> teach about God, Jesus, Christianity, but legal and required no less
> for 7th grade students to be taught to pray to Allah, memorize
> prayers, dress up as Muslims etc.
What bullshit. It's not illegal to teach *about* Jesus, "god", etc. It's
just illegal to teach that those things are the One True Religion. And that
Allah stuff was some small incident in an isolated case in one school and
was more of a cultural thing anyway - nobody was expecting any kids to
become Muslims because of it. Anyway, I agree that the course shouldn't be
taught the way it is, I believe in seperation of all churches and state.
But this little incident has been blown way out of proportion.
>
> My guess is because Allah isn't mentioned in the Constitution, but
> God is.
What? God is mentioned in the Constitution? Where, exactly, is that?
Plese provide the direct quote.
> This being the case, then our kids can't be taught about the
> Constitution, in fact it's not even allowed to be seen in a classroom.
What? Can't be taught about the Constitution? Jeeze... where do you get
this stuff? Does someone tell you this crap or do you just make it up
yourself? Did you hear it from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or something?
Alphonso M'buto Chiang
says...
PerfectlyAble
Bush Dictatorship wrote:
Schools are there to educate not indoctrinate. Schools have
the obligation to inform kids about the nature of other religions.
Kids are unlikely to convert to Allah just because a teacher
starts a discussion on other religions in society. You have to have
a poor opinion of your own kids to believe their faith would be so
easily swayed. Religious tolerance is core to the whole idea of
freedom of expression and freedom of religion. The tolerance for
other faiths means schools must expose students to religion
(and atheism) in a positive way rather than leave it up to some
religious or athiest bigot at the gates. Everyone knows we're
waiting outside to tell them there in no God, that Allah is
just another sham, and that faith, true faith, is using reason
alone as a support for your beliefs. But the schools have an
obligation atleast to create the possibility of correct religious
dogma.
Personally I find it sickening but accept it because society
isn't a one religion fit. Freedom means the right to be wrong.
Sammy
agree that we should teach children about tolerence by letting them know
that we are a whole whorld and we come in all kinds of shapes colors and
religions. That is enought in the primary grades. Going into any kind
of depth into all the religions would take a lot of the school day and
would, no doubt be extremely boring to the kids. Kids don't like
religion or rules of any kind. Your point is well taken, though, in
that no particular religious befief should predominate, and certainly
not a non tolerant religious one. Thank You
BUSH=TERRORISM
wrote:
>I see schools not just as sterile learning environments but places
Oh it's allowed, in fact it's even required by 7th grade students, to
teach them about Islam, even the courts ruled it's allowed. But it's
against the law to mention Jesus, God, Lord etc., but Allah is ok.
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/islamS.htm
--
BUSH=TERRORISM
Well the courts seem to disagree with you. It's against the law to
teach about God, Jesus, Christianity, but legal and required no less
for 7th grade students to be taught to pray to Allah, memorize
prayers, dress up as Muslims etc.
My guess is because Allah isn't mentioned in the Constitution, but
God is. This being the case, then our kids can't be taught about the
Constitution, in fact it's not even allowed to be seen in a classroom.
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/islamS.htm
PerfectlyAble
Sammy wrote:
What I have in mind would take about an hour once a year!
Humanists, Confusons, Buddhists, Animalism are a-theisms.
Judism, Christianity, Islam are mono-theisms.
Hinduism is a pan-theism.
Each group lives with moral codes, each has adherents that
obey the law, laugh, are loving to their children, etc.
Each group also have evil members that teach that only their
own religion is good and that to believe in any other religion will
mean living in a hell created by them on earth AND living for
eternity in a hellish nightmare if you disobey them.