BRITISH VIOLENT CRIME EXCEEDS RATES IN USA
an0...@hotmail.com
http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
Firing Blanks on British Crime Rates
Oh, I say! The New York Times fell victim to a common fallacy about
those ever-so-polite Englishmen when it covered a story about the rise
of rural crime in Britain (“A Rural Intruder’s Slaying Unsettles
England,” May 24).
“In general,” asserts the Times, “crime rates in Britain are much
lower than they are in the United States, a phenomenon largely
attributed to the strict laws that ban handguns ... and strictly
regulate who can have a gun and under what circumstances.” The
statement is simply incorrect. A recent joint study by America’s
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) and Britain’s Cambridge University
shows that crime rates are higher in Britain than the United States
for robbery, assault, burglary and motor vehicle theft – in other
words, all the major crimes apart from rape (where the figures on both
sides of the Atlantic are notoriously unreliable) and murder. Crime
rates in Britain have also grown since the study’s time period, while
they have declined over here. Gun control in Britain has also become
much stricter.
Linking low crime rates to strict gun control therefore seems like a
non-starter. The only area in which the cause and effect relationship
of guns and crime seems to hold true is in the realm of murder, but
even America’s non-gun murder rate is much higher than Britain’s,
indicating that something else may be afoot.
The BJS/Cambridge study suggests that the reason for the disparities
lies in the fact that a criminal’s risk of being punished has been
falling in Britain while rising in the USA. Britain is no longer the
idyllically peaceful place Americans think it is. That’s one aspect of
British culture that doesn’t make it onto PBS
Sam A. Kersh
>
>http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
>
>
>Firing Blanks on British Crime Rates
>Oh, I say! The New York Times fell victim to a common fallacy about
>those ever-so-polite Englishmen when it covered a story about the rise
>of rural crime in Britain (“A Rural Intruder’s Slaying Unsettles
>England,” May 24).
>
>“In general,” asserts the Times, “crime rates in Britain are much
>lower than they are in the United States, a phenomenon largely
>attributed to the strict laws that ban handguns ... and strictly
>regulate who can have a gun and under what circumstances.” The
>statement is simply incorrect. A recent joint study by America’s
>Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) and Britain’s Cambridge University
>shows that crime rates are higher in Britain than the United States
That study can be found in the Department of Justice publication
NCJ-169284, "Crime in the United States and in England and Wales,
1981-96," dated October 1998.
By and large, the study showed crime and violent crime was committed at
a much higher rate in "gun-safe" England than by those 'murderous
colonials.'
Sam A. Kersh
NRA Endowment Member
L.E.A.A. Life Member
TSRA Life Member
GOA, JPFO, SAF
http://www.flash.net/~csmkersh/
===============================================================
Read Jeff Snyder's unabridged analysis of the S&W/HUD sellout
at http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/jeffsnyder.html
Tigga
<an0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
>
> http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
>
>
Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument, they make
things up...
Bursa awatii minima kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
Tigga <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au> wrote in message
news:tKvl5.64$002....@news0.optus.net.au...
Then they buy a gun.
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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Marksman
"Tigga" <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au> wrote in message
news:tKvl5.64$002....@news0.optus.net.au...
>
> <an0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> >
> >
>
> Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument, they
make
> things up...
>
>
WOW!!! Do all aussies ignore facts?
rbowen
Yes.
Rick Bowen
May God bless Texas
TSRA Life Member
NRA Member
James D. Nicholson
>
> <an0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> >
> >
>
> Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument, they make
> things up...
The truth hurts, huh, mate. Tell you wot, for some more disillusionment,
take a gander at:
http://www.tsra.com/banbad.htm
Be sure to check out the increase in Aussie youth suicide rates.
--
Jim Nicholson
http://www.tsra.com
Every general increase of freedom is accompanied by some degeneracy,
attributable to the same causes as the freedom. Charles Horton Cooley
(1864-1929), U.S. sociologist.
James D. Nicholson
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> news:tKvl5.64$002....@news0.optus.net.au...
> >
> > news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument, they
> make
> > things up...
>
Right. Without a license, too. There was a time when you were that free.
Shouldn't you be worrying about the Indonesians rather than the
Americans. It's the Americans that you are going to want to save your
sorry arse from the Indonesians. Now that you have reduced your armed
defenses to naught and disarmed your citizens of much of it's weaponry
you are somewhat defenseless and all alone down under while the natives
are getting restless as heck north of you.
Jim McCulloch
csmk...@flash.net wrote on 8/12/00 10:29 PM:
> That study can be found in the Department of Justice publication
> NCJ-169284, "Crime in the United States and in England and Wales,
> 1981-96," dated October 1998.
>
> By and large, the study showed crime and violent crime was committed at
> a much higher rate in "gun-safe" England than by those 'murderous
> colonials.'
Once again, Sam, I have to say I am puzzled by why you bring up these rather
damning statistics.
It is fairly obvious that, if, as you and several gun enthusiasts on the gun
newsgroups have pointed out, the inhabitants of England, Scotland, and Wales
are as violent as we are (indeed, more violent, perhaps), yet (and this is
undisputed) the murder rate in Britain is _vastly_ lower than the murder
rate in the United States, then it is very plausible that the reason for the
lower murder rate is that guns are correspondingly scarcer in Britain than
in the USA.
In other words, a bar fight, or a traffic dispute leading to assault, or a
dispute between gangs, or a domestic dispute, or any quarrel you can
imagine, are all as likely to lead to violence in Britain as here. But not
to murder. What's different? Guns.
Now I realize, that's simplistic. I can _imagine_ some other cause of the
difference in murder rates. The trouble is, I just can't imagine one that
would stand up to scrutiny. Help me out, Sam.
Best regards,
--Jim McCulloch
Paul Barnett
news:B5BC32B5.41AA%mccu...@mail.utexas.edu...
> Once again, Sam, I have to say I am puzzled by why you bring up these
rather
> damning statistics.
And I'm rather puzzled why you don't remember history.
> It is fairly obvious that, if, as you and several gun enthusiasts on the
gun
> newsgroups have pointed out, the inhabitants of England, Scotland, and
Wales
> are as violent as we are (indeed, more violent, perhaps), yet (and this is
> undisputed) the murder rate in Britain is _vastly_ lower than the murder
> rate in the United States, then it is very plausible that the reason for
the
> lower murder rate is that guns are correspondingly scarcer in Britain than
> in the USA.
Your "plausible reason" falls apart when you examine history and find that
Britain's lower murder rates were significantly lower than the US _before_
they started legislating guns out of existence.
> In other words, a bar fight, or a traffic dispute leading to assault, or a
> dispute between gangs, or a domestic dispute, or any quarrel you can
> imagine, are all as likely to lead to violence in Britain as here. But not
> to murder. What's different? Guns.
I thought you were above trotting out the "blood in the streets" strawman,
Jim.
> Now I realize, that's simplistic. I can _imagine_ some other cause of the
> difference in murder rates. The trouble is, I just can't imagine one that
> would stand up to scrutiny. Help me out, Sam.
Yes, it is simplistic. But, you would have figured it out simply by looking
at the trend -- the British murder rate has been climbing while ours has
been falling. If the trend continues, what are you going to blame when the
two lines cross?
phx...@home.com
>
> Now I realize, that's simplistic. I can _imagine_ some other cause of the
> difference in murder rates. The trouble is, I just can't imagine one that
> would stand up to scrutiny. Help me out, Sam.
>
>
> --Jim McCulloch
I'm not Sam, but I know the answer. It's been handed to you over and
over again, but you continue to ignore it.
Our insane War On Drugs has driven street drug prices to levels you
would not believe. Children just entering puberty are able to earn
<thousands> of dollars for just a few hours spent standing on the stret
corners of their neighborhoods. Like in any other retail business,
location is paramount. Ability to conduct business only a few blocks
away can mean loss of thousands and thousands of dollars. Turf wars are
the natural result. Often even when older gang members are involved in
confrontations, they often send younger members to do the actual
shootings. Generally speaking, the younger the shooter, the lighter the
slap on the wrist. They're not stupid, & play to the handwringing
bleedyhearts, who howl about 'devil whitey' being the cause of the
problems. They're right. Most republicrat politicians who support the
War On Drugs are white.
Jim McCulloch
ne...@ptb.org wrote on 8/13/00 11:36 AM:
>>It is fairly obvious that, if, as you and several gun enthusiasts on the gun
>> newsgroups have pointed out, the inhabitants of England, Scotland, and Wales
>> are as violent as we are (indeed, more violent, perhaps), yet (and this is
>> undisputed) the murder rate in Britain is _vastly_ lower than the murder
>> rate in the United States, then it is very plausible that the reason for the
>> lower murder rate is that guns are correspondingly scarcer in Britain than
>> in the USA.
>
> Your "plausible reason" falls apart when you examine history and find that
> Britain's lower murder rates were significantly lower than the US _before_
> they started legislating guns out of existence.
It would be interesting to see if gun ownership rates, whether of handguns,
long guns, or both, in Britain ever remotely approached those that have
historically been prevalent in the US. Do you have any figures?
Best regards,
--Jim McCulloch
.
Paul Barnett
> It would be interesting to see if gun ownership rates, whether of
handguns,
> long guns, or both, in Britain ever remotely approached those that have
> historically been prevalent in the US. Do you have any figures?
Not off the top of my head, but I know some people that have been doing
research about firearm ownership in the Revolution era, in both the US and
the UK. I'll see what I can dig up.
Jim McCulloch
wrote on 8/13/00 12:14 PM:
Well, Phxbrd, I can't honestly say you have even addressed my question, much
less answered it.
Nobody opposes the Insane War on Drugs more than I do. Like you, I believe
it increases lawlessness, and probably has increased the murder rate. But
the fact is that the murder rate in the US has for the past several years
been falling, and the War on Drugs is neither more nor less intense, and
neither more nor less successful, now than a decade ago, when the murder
rates were higher. Murder rates in the United States have risen and fallen,
for reasons that I won't pretend to know, during the entire 20th century,
but as far as I know (and correct me if you have figures that show the
contrary) have always been much higher than the British murder rate.
I don't see how the War on Drugs has any explanatory value in telling us why
British murder rates are lower, and always been lower than in the United
States.
If it is not that the British have less access to guns, particularly
handguns, and always have, then what other explanation is left? Well, I can
only think of one, and it is a racist one that I personally don't accept,
that is implied in your remarks above, that black people are more prone to
kill each other than white people, regardless of access to guns, and that
our murder rate (and the slowly increasing murder rate with black emigration
into Britain) is due to black murderousness.
I think that's a crock. This is apparent if you observe the fact that
southern whites have always had a higher murder rate than the same racial
and ethnic stock they mostly came from in Britain. Southern whites have
always been heavily armed. Lower class and rural British people, by and
large, are not, and never have been.
Best regards,
--Jim McCulloch
Kevin Craig
<mccu...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> It is fairly obvious that, if, as you and several gun enthusiasts on the gun
> newsgroups have pointed out, the inhabitants of England, Scotland, and Wales
> are as violent as we are (indeed, more violent, perhaps), yet (and this is
> undisputed) the murder rate in Britain is _vastly_ lower than the murder
> rate in the United States, then it is very plausible that the reason for the
> lower murder rate is that guns are correspondingly scarcer in Britain than
> in the USA.
>
> In other words, a bar fight, or a traffic dispute leading to assault, or a
> dispute between gangs, or a domestic dispute, or any quarrel you can
> imagine, are all as likely to lead to violence in Britain as here. But not
> to murder. What's different? Guns.
Why don't you try comparing the murder stats *without* guns? Although
it's not a fact I'm proud of, the U.S. *non-gun* murder rate is higher
than the U.K.'s non-gun murder rate. Thus, even in the absence of guns,
our murder rate is higher.
Why don't you do a little digging, find out the ratio of guns:murders in
both the U.S. and the U.K.? (I'm putting the burden on you, since you're
the one claiming guns are to blame.) I suspect you'll find that, as a
percentage of guns in the nation, the U.K.'s murder rate is vastly higher
than the U.S.'s. By your claim that the higher gun availability in the
U.S. causes more murders, then our murder rate should be *thousands* of
times that of Britain, since we have thousands of times the number of
guns.
Kevin
Scott Miller
>Once again, Sam, I have to say I am puzzled by why you bring up these rather
>damning statistics.
>
>It is fairly obvious that, if, as you and several gun enthusiasts on the
>gun
>newsgroups have pointed out, the inhabitants of England, Scotland, and
>Wales
>are as violent as we are (indeed, more violent, perhaps), yet (and this
>is
>undisputed) the murder rate in Britain is _vastly_ lower than the murder
>rate in the United States, then it is very plausible that the reason for
>the
>lower murder rate is that guns are correspondingly scarcer in Britain than
>in the USA.
>
>In other words, a bar fight, or a traffic dispute leading to assault, or
>a
>dispute between gangs, or a domestic dispute, or any quarrel you can
>imagine, are all as likely to lead to violence in Britain as here. But
>not
>to murder. What's different? Guns.
>
>Now I realize, that's simplistic. I can _imagine_ some other cause of
>the
>difference in murder rates. The trouble is, I just can't imagine one that
>would stand up to scrutiny. Help me out, Sam.
Looking into our own stats, you'll see that our murder rate is culturally
dependent: if you are young, black and in a gang, you fit the profile of many
murderers/murder victims in this country. That is not a fault of guns, but a
result of who decides to take up a gun and use it.
In the UK, the people who are using guns are also the young street criminals.
If anything, it's not a gun thing, but a street sub-culture thing. They're all
just using the most effective means to kill each other.
--Scott Miller
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and
never will be."
--Thomas Jefferson
Verne
> in article 3996D60B...@home.com, phx...@home.com at phx...@home.com
> wrote on 8/13/00 12:14 PM:
>
> >
> >>
the
> >> difference in murder rates. The trouble is, I just can't imagine one
that
> >> would stand up to scrutiny. Help me out, Sam.
> >>
True
>
> I don't see how the War on Drugs has any explanatory value in telling us
why
> British murder rates are lower, and always been lower than in the United
> States.
Thats also true
>
> If it is not that the British have less access to guns, particularly
> handguns, and always have,
Not true a hundred years ago the only thing that prvented a Englishman from
owning a gun was income.
> then what other explanation is left? Well, I can
> only think of one, and it is a racist one that I personally don't accept,
> that is implied in your remarks above, that black people are more prone to
> kill each other than white people, regardless of access to guns, and that
> our murder rate (and the slowly increasing murder rate with black
emigration
> into Britain) is due to black murderousness.
>
> I think that's a crock.
Your right as African immigrants to the USA are very law abiding. England's
black immigrants often are from Jamaica, one of the most crime ridden
nations on earth. The problem is cultural not racial
> This is apparent if you observe the fact that
> southern whites have always had a higher murder rate than the same racial
> and ethnic stock they mostly came from in Britain. Southern whites have
> always been heavily armed. Lower class and rural British people, by and
> large, are not, and never have been.
And western and Midwestern whites are also heavily armed with the western
rural whites being the most heavily armed people in this nation. They also
have a very low crime rate as do all rural residents in this nation and they
are the most heavily armed people in this nation.,
Comparing Americans to Americans we find that those groups that are most
likely to own guns are the most peaceful in this nation. For guns to be a
cause of violence in America the opposite would need to be true and it
isn't.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> --Jim McCulloch
>
>
>
>
Sam A. Kersh
>in article 39961778....@news.flash.net, Sam A. Kersh at
>csmk...@flash.net wrote on 8/12/00 10:29 PM:
>
>
>> That study can be found in the Department of Justice publication
>> NCJ-169284, "Crime in the United States and in England and Wales,
>> 1981-96," dated October 1998.
>>
>> By and large, the study showed crime and violent crime was committed at
>> a much higher rate in "gun-safe" England than by those 'murderous
>> colonials.'
>
>Once again, Sam, I have to say I am puzzled by why you bring up these rather
>damning statistics.
>
>It is fairly obvious that, if, as you and several gun enthusiasts on the gun
>newsgroups have pointed out, the inhabitants of England, Scotland, and Wales
>are as violent as we are (indeed, more violent, perhaps), yet (and this is
>undisputed) the murder rate in Britain is _vastly_ lower than the murder
>rate in the United States, then it is very plausible that the reason for the
>lower murder rate is that guns are correspondingly scarcer in Britain than
>in the USA.
>
>In other words, a bar fight, or a traffic dispute leading to assault, or a
>dispute between gangs, or a domestic dispute, or any quarrel you can
>imagine, are all as likely to lead to violence in Britain as here. But not
>to murder. What's different? Guns.
>
Wrong. Ethnic groups and cultures... or have you forgotten Europe
where most American's forbearers came from? The Swiss are known for
their chocolates and full-auto battle rifles behind the kitchen door...
Germany, France, and most others have a "gun culture" but not the
crime/homicide rate we do...
>Now I realize, that's simplistic. I can _imagine_ some other cause of the
>difference in murder rates. The trouble is, I just can't imagine one that
>would stand up to scrutiny. Help me out, Sam.
Well, Jim, the answer is not at all pleasing to you liberals.... A
minority that makes up a mere 12.5 percent of our population is
responsible for 49 percent of the homicides(1). We Caucasians account
for 83 percent of the population and also are responsible for 49 percent
of the homicides. Factoring out that group drops "our" homicide rate
down on a par with you fantasy world of England.. But you've been told
this before... You must be hoping to impress the newbie lurker out
there.
1. See "Nature", page 17, FBI UCR for 1998.
And glad to see you're posting on your dime, not the University's...
Sam A. Kersh
>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:47:57 GMT, "Marksman"
><som...@usa.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tigga" <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au> wrote in message
>>news:tKvl5.64$002....@news0.optus.net.au...
>>>
>>> <an0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
>>> >
>>> > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument, they
>>make
>>> things up...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>WOW!!! Do all aussies ignore facts?
>
>Yes.
And you also have to remember they came from the shallow end of the
English gene pool...
phx...@home.com
Jim McCulloch wrote:
>
> in article 3996D60B...@home.com, phx...@home.com at phx...@home.com
> wrote on 8/13/00 12:14 PM:
>
> >
> >>
> >> Now I realize, that's simplistic. I can _imagine_ some other cause of the
> >> difference in murder rates. The trouble is, I just can't imagine one that
> >> would stand up to scrutiny. Help me out, Sam.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> --Jim McCulloch
> >
> > I'm not Sam, but I know the answer. It's been handed to you over and
> > over again, but you continue to ignore it.
> >
> > Our insane War On Drugs has driven street drug prices to levels you
> > would not believe. Children just entering puberty are able to earn
> > <thousands> of dollars for just a few hours spent standing on the stret
> > corners of their neighborhoods. Like in any other retail business,
> > location is paramount. Ability to conduct business only a few blocks
> > away can mean loss of thousands and thousands of dollars. Turf wars are
> > the natural result. Often even when older gang members are involved in
> > confrontations, they often send younger members to do the actual
> > shootings. Generally speaking, the younger the shooter, the lighter the
> > slap on the wrist. They're not stupid, & play to the handwringing
> > bleedyhearts, who howl about 'devil whitey' being the cause of the
> > problems. They're right. Most republicrat politicians who support the
> > War On Drugs are white.
>
> Well, Phxbrd, I can't honestly say you have even addressed my question, much
> less answered it.
Yes, I did, but like Greg, it doesn't fit your needs, so you'll ignore
it and then claim it was never provided.
>
> Nobody opposes the Insane War on Drugs more than I do. Like you, I believe
> it increases lawlessness, and probably has increased the murder rate. But
> the fact is that the murder rate in the US has for the past several years
> been falling, and the War on Drugs is neither more nor less intense, and
> neither more nor less successful, now than a decade ago, when the murder
> rates were higher. Murder rates in the United States have risen and fallen,
> for reasons that I won't pretend to know, during the entire 20th century,
> but as far as I know (and correct me if you have figures that show the
> contrary) have always been much higher than the British murder rate.
I'll pass on that. I really have little regard for stats, even when I
occasionally use them myself. We all know they can be created and/or
found to support <ANY> position.
I agree murder rates rise & fall for a number of reasons. I don't make
any claims to account for all murders, or even the killings wrongly
called murders. What I said above though is simple truth, even if it
doesn't account for all gun deaths, & it stands.
>
> I don't see how the War on Drugs has any explanatory value in telling us why
> British murder rates are lower, and always been lower than in the United
> States.
It's not the entire story, but that doesn't mean it's totally
unimportant, either.
>
> If it is not that the British have less access to guns, particularly
> handguns, and always have, then what other explanation is left? Well, I can
> only think of one, and it is a racist one that I personally don't accept,
> that is implied in your remarks above, that black people are more prone to
> kill each other than white people, regardless of access to guns,
But that is precisely the case, & it has not a goddam thing to do with
whether any of us happen to like the fact or not. You may feel free to
name underlying causes, but the fact is simple and unavoidable.
> and that
> our murder rate (and the slowly increasing murder rate with black emigration
> into Britain) is due to black murderousness.
Underlying reasons are not my forte, but maybe yours. Have at it, just
don't deny bald unvarnished fact.
>
> I think that's a crock. This is apparent if you observe the fact that
> southern whites have always had a higher murder rate than the same racial
> and ethnic stock they mostly came from in Britain. Southern whites have
> always been heavily armed. Lower class and rural British people, by and
> large, are not, and never have been.
Which all has not a goddam thing to do with the basic fact that most
violent crime here is black on black.
>
> Best regards,
>
> --Jim McCulloch
Greg
> >difference in murder rates. The trouble is, I just can't imagine one that
> >would stand up to scrutiny. Help me out, Sam.
>
> minority that makes up a mere 12.5 percent of our population is
> responsible for 49 percent of the homicides(1). We Caucasians account
> for 83 percent of the population and also are responsible for 49 percent
> of the homicides.
>
>
> And glad to see you're posting on your dime, not the University's...
>
> Sam A. Kersh
Right, lets run with those numbers:
1996 gun murder statistics:
Population: per 100,000 at US rate
New Zealand 2 3.6 0.055 128.
Australia 13 18.2 0.071 647.
Japan 15 125.4 0.012 4,460.
Great Britain 30 58.7 0.051 2,088.
Canada 106 28.2 0.376 1,003.
Germany 211 76.3 0.276 2,714.
TEXAS 787 ?
at NZ's rate
USA 9,390 264.0 3.557 1,467.
at Japan's rate
316.
US Caucasians: 4,601 219.1M 2.100
US Minority": 4,601 33.0M 13.942
US Others: 188 11.9M 1.580
> Factoring out that group drops "our" homicide rate
> down on a par with you fantasy world of England.. But you've been told
> this before... You must be hoping to impress the newbie lurker out
> there.
The US rate per 100,00 of 2.100 is on a par with Great Britain's 0.051
?!?!
At what School of Creative Statistics did you learn to count your ears
and toes Sam?
Don't give up that day job at the sewerage works just yet.
Regards,
Greg.P.
Sam A. Kersh
Greg, I told you before, get the correct data, not the misinformation
from the VPC... the only thing you've posted that's even in the
ballpark is the population breakdown of the U.S.
Tigga
James D. Nicholson <jam...@akamail.com> wrote in message
news:3996C3C7...@akamail.com...
> Tigga wrote:
> >
> > <an0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument, they
make
> > things up...
>
> take a gander at:
>
> http://www.tsra.com/banbad.htm
>
> Be sure to check out the increase in Aussie youth suicide rates.
Oh yeah... now there would be a real accurate source of information....
</sarcasm>
Tigga
> Bursa awatii minima kadaitcha wrote:
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > news:tKvl5.64$002....@news0.optus.net.au...
> > >
> > > news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> > > >
> > > > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument,
they
> > make
> > > things up...
> >
>
> Right. Without a license, too. There was a time when you were that free.
Yah, but now we are free of high school massacres.....
> Shouldn't you be worrying about the Indonesians rather than the
> Americans. It's the Americans that you are going to want to save your
> sorry arse from the Indonesians. Now that you have reduced your armed
> defenses to naught and disarmed your citizens of much of it's weaponry
> you are somewhat defenseless and all alone down under while the natives
> are getting restless as heck north of you.
We bent the Indo's over and but fucked them out of E. Timor... luckily
without the "assistance" of you yankkks.... I shudder to think of the high
rate of casualties if you fuck heads were there. But fortunately, you people
considered it to not be profitable to attend, so you sent a few message
boys.
The big open space of water would stop their armed forces.. our navy (even
with the handicap of the Collins Class Sub) and our air force would beat
them into submission before they left indo waters.
Margovula bimaculata kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
Verne <ver...@budweiser.com> wrote in message
news:spe2c9...@corp.supernews.com...
> "Jim McCulloch" <mccu...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
> news:B5BC4BCC.41F4%mccu...@mail.utexas.edu...
> > in article 3996D60B...@home.com, phx...@home.com at
phx...@home.com
> > wrote on 8/13/00 12:14 PM:
> Comparing Americans to Americans we find that those groups that are most
> likely to own guns are the most peaceful in this nation. For guns to be a
> cause of violence in America the opposite would need to be true and it
> isn't.
Are you trying to convince yourself or someone else?
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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Cymbiola aulica kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
Sam A. Kersh <csmk...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:399773bd....@news.flash.net...
> Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> Greg, I told you before, get the correct data, not the misinformation
> from the VPC... the only thing you've posted that's even in the
> ballpark is the population breakdown of the U.S.
Breakdown being the operative word.
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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James D. Nicholson
> > Tigga wrote:
> > >
> > > <an0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> > > >
> > > > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument, they
> make
> > > things up...
> >
> > take a gander at:
> >
> > http://www.tsra.com/banbad.htm
> >
> > Be sure to check out the increase in Aussie youth suicide rates.
>
> Oh yeah... now there would be a real accurate source of information....
> </sarcasm>
The numbers are right out of your beloved Oz bureaucracy. Don't trust
your government? After the UFL it's obvious that they don't trust you
either.
James D. Nicholson
> > Bursa awatii minima kadaitcha wrote:
> > >
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > news:tKvl5.64$002....@news0.optus.net.au...
> > > >
> > > > news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument,
> they
> > > make
> > > > things up...
> > >
> >
> > Right. Without a license, too. There was a time when you were that free.
>
> Yah, but now we are free of high school massacres.....
>
> > Shouldn't you be worrying about the Indonesians rather than the
> > Americans. It's the Americans that you are going to want to save your
> > sorry arse from the Indonesians. Now that you have reduced your armed
> > defenses to naught and disarmed your citizens of much of it's weaponry
> > you are somewhat defenseless and all alone down under while the natives
> > are getting restless as heck north of you.
>
> We bent the Indo's over and but fucked them out of E. Timor... luckily
> without the "assistance" of you yankkks.... I shudder to think of the high
> rate of casualties if you fuck heads were there. But fortunately, you people
> considered it to not be profitable to attend, so you sent a few message
> boys.
>
> The big open space of water would stop their armed forces.. our navy (even
> with the handicap of the Collins Class Sub) and our air force would beat
> them into submission before they left indo waters.
You just think you did. Others disagree.
http://www.etan.org/news/2000a/deleg1.htm
Sam A. Kersh
>We bent the Indo's over and but fucked them out of E. Timor... luckily
>without the "assistance" of you yankkks.... I shudder to think of the high
>rate of casualties if you fuck heads were there. But fortunately, you people
>considered it to not be profitable to attend, so you sent a few message
>boys.
Are all you Brits homos and foul mouthed? Not profitable to attend?
How much money did you all make on the robbing and raping?
Verne
"Margovula bimaculata kadaitcha"
<polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS> wrote in message
news:C4BB0BC8.0...@kadaitcha.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> news:spe2c9...@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Jim McCulloch" <mccu...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
> > news:B5BC4BCC.41F4%mccu...@mail.utexas.edu...
> > > in article 3996D60B...@home.com, phx...@home.com at
> phx...@home.com
> > > wrote on 8/13/00 12:14 PM:
>
> > Comparing Americans to Americans we find that those groups that are most
> > likely to own guns are the most peaceful in this nation. For guns to be
a
> > cause of violence in America the opposite would need to be true and it
> > isn't.
>
> Are you trying to convince yourself or someone else?
>
>
Try pointing to any fact that shows me wrong or begone ye troll!
Verne
Scot
Greg wrote:
<snip>
> > > 1996 gun murder statistics:
> > > Population: per 100,000 at US rate
> > > New Zealand 2 3.6 0.055 128.
> > >
> > > Australia 13 18.2 0.071 647.
> > >
> > > Japan 15 125.4 0.012 4,460.
> > >
> > > Great Britain 30 58.7 0.051 2,088.
> > >
> > > Canada 106 28.2 0.376 1,003.
> > >
> > > Germany 211 76.3 0.276 2,714.
> > >
> > > TEXAS 787 ?
> > > at NZ's rate
> > > USA 9,390 264.0 3.557 1,467.
> > > at Japan's rate
> > > 316.
> > >
> > >US Caucasians: 4,601 219.1M 2.100
> > >US Minority": 4,601 33.0M 13.942
> > >US Others: 188 11.9M 1.580
> >
> > Greg, I told you before, get the correct data, not the misinformation
> > from the VPC... the only thing you've posted that's even in the
> > ballpark is the population breakdown of the U.S.
> >
> > Sam A. Kersh
>
> Oh, "Little Sam you am", if you don't like the numbers, show us which
> ones are wrong.
> The population figures are from my "New Zealand Statistics book.
> The US and New Zealand figures are verified by me. The extensions are
> courtesy of my little scientific calculator (made in China)
> Do tell us all where I am wrong.
Perhaps you could let us know what the relevance of this particular set
of numbers is in your mind. Where are you going with this?
Greg
Tigga
> > > Tigga wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <an0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument,
they
> > make
> > > > things up...
> > >
disillusionment,
> > > take a gander at:
> > >
> > > http://www.tsra.com/banbad.htm
> > >
> > > Be sure to check out the increase in Aussie youth suicide rates.
> >
> > Oh yeah... now there would be a real accurate source of information....
> > </sarcasm>
>
> The numbers are right out of your beloved Oz bureaucracy. Don't trust
> your government? After the UFL it's obvious that they don't trust you
> either.
tsra.com? its not a dot AU address... the figures would have been
americanised (adjusted and manipulated to suit an argument or cause)
Tigga
> > > Bursa awatii minima kadaitcha wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > > news:tKvl5.64$002....@news0.optus.net.au...
> > > > >
> > > > > news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument,
> > they
> > > > make
> > > > > things up...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Right. Without a license, too. There was a time when you were that
free.
> >
> > Yah, but now we are free of high school massacres.....
> >
> > > Shouldn't you be worrying about the Indonesians rather than the
> > > Americans. It's the Americans that you are going to want to save your
> > > sorry arse from the Indonesians. Now that you have reduced your armed
> > > defenses to naught and disarmed your citizens of much of it's weaponry
> > > you are somewhat defenseless and all alone down under while the
natives
> > > are getting restless as heck north of you.
> >
> > without the "assistance" of you yankkks.... I shudder to think of the
high
> > rate of casualties if you fuck heads were there. But fortunately, you
people
> > considered it to not be profitable to attend, so you sent a few message
> > boys.
> >
(even
> > with the handicap of the Collins Class Sub) and our air force would beat
> > them into submission before they left indo waters.
>
> You just think you did. Others disagree.
>
Randy Howard
says...
> its not a dot AU address... the figures would have been
> americanised (adjusted and manipulated to suit an argument or cause)
You don't suppose that figures posted on a .AU address would
have been aussified (adjusted and manipulated to suit an
argument or cause) do you?
--
Randy Howard
Tigga
> "Tigga" <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au> wrote:
>
> >We bent the Indo's over and but fucked them out of E. Timor... luckily
> >without the "assistance" of you yankkks.... I shudder to think of the
high
> >rate of casualties if you fuck heads were there. But fortunately, you
people
> >considered it to not be profitable to attend, so you sent a few message
> >boys.
>
> How much money did you all make on the robbing and raping?
>
Not Brits you moron... just goes to show how stupid you people really are...
AND... there was no robbing or raping cause you dumb-fucks didn't come.....
AND YES you heard the point, you arse holes didn't come cause there nothing
in it for you... we went cause we wanted to help.
Semicassis adcocki kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
Verne <ver...@budweiser.com> wrote in message
news:spftdru...@corp.supernews.com...
> "Margovula bimaculata kadaitcha"
> <polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS> wrote in message
> news:C4BB0BC8.0...@kadaitcha.com...
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Verne <ver...@budweiser.com> wrote in message
> > news:spe2c9...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > "Jim McCulloch" <mccu...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
> > > news:B5BC4BCC.41F4%mccu...@mail.utexas.edu...
> > > > in article 3996D60B...@home.com, phx...@home.com at
> > phx...@home.com
> > > > wrote on 8/13/00 12:14 PM:
> >
> > > Comparing Americans to Americans we find that those groups that are
most
> > > likely to own guns are the most peaceful in this nation. For guns to
be
> > > a
> > > cause of violence in America the opposite would need to be true and it
> > > isn't.
> >
> > Are you trying to convince yourself or someone else?
> >
> >
>
> Try pointing to any fact that shows me wrong or begone ye troll!
How about you first post factual evidence to support your assertions and
we'll take it from there. Or don't they teach you the rules of rational and
reasoned argument supported by verifiable evidence in amerikkkan skkkool?
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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rbo...@ticnet.com
wrote:
>
>Not Brits you moron...
Just brit penal colonists.
Rick Bowen
May God bless Texas
TSRA Life Member
NRA Member
1-Octadecene kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
<rbo...@ticnet.com> wrote in message
news:64B4BE70F751BCB0.4B7BEBC9...@lp.airnews.net...
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:22:48 +1000, "Tigga" <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au>
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Not Brits you moron...
>
> Just brit penal colonists.
Correction...
> Just brit penile colonists.
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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James D. Nicholson
> > > > Tigga wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > <an0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3995ff63...@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.stats.org/newsletters/0006/britcrime.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, it is true... when yankkks are in need of a genuine argument,
> they
> > > make
> > > > > things up...
> > > >
> disillusionment,
> > > > take a gander at:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.tsra.com/banbad.htm
> > > >
> > > > Be sure to check out the increase in Aussie youth suicide rates.
> > >
> > > Oh yeah... now there would be a real accurate source of information....
> > > </sarcasm>
> >
> > The numbers are right out of your beloved Oz bureaucracy. Don't trust
> > your government? After the UFL it's obvious that they don't trust you
> > either.
>
> americanised (adjusted and manipulated to suit an argument or cause)
Read the credit lines, Sport.
PLONK
Clanculus brunneus kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
James D. Nicholson <jam...@akamail.com> wrote in message
news:399939E7...@akamail.com...
> Tigga wrote:
> Read the credit lines, Sport.
> PLONK
Read the subject headers, fuckchop.
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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kqualls
Is not the British flag still part of the Australian flag? If you were
still not so closely associated with the British in philosophy and heritage
why would your government keep the British flag as part of your own
countries flag?
For those that want to say it isn't so here is a couple of links. The first
is to the flag of the United Kingdom, i.e. the British.
http://fotw.digibel.be/flags/gb.html
This link is to the flag of Australia:
http://www.flagaustnat.asn.au/
--
Thanks
Kevin Qualls
kwqu...@hotmail.com
NRA-ILA Volunteer EVC - 1st U.S. Congressional District TN
http://kwqualls.tripod.com
If you want to participate in electing pro-firearms candidates in this
election cycle please email me or join the email discussion group dedicated
to that topic at http://www.egroups.com/group/NRA-ILA_TN-1
Verne
"Semicassis adcocki kadaitcha"
<polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS> wrote in message
news:C4BB0C1F.0...@kadaitcha.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> news:spftdru...@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Margovula bimaculata kadaitcha"
> > <polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS> wrote in message
> > news:C4BB0BC8.0...@kadaitcha.com...
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > news:spe2c9...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > "Jim McCulloch" <mccu...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
> > > > news:B5BC4BCC.41F4%mccu...@mail.utexas.edu...
> > > > > in article 3996D60B...@home.com, phx...@home.com at
> > > phx...@home.com
> > > > > wrote on 8/13/00 12:14 PM:
> > >
> > > > Comparing Americans to Americans we find that those groups that are
> most
> > > > likely to own guns are the most peaceful in this nation. For guns to
> be
> > > > a
> > > > cause of violence in America the opposite would need to be true and
it
> > > > isn't.
> > >
> > > Are you trying to convince yourself or someone else?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Try pointing to any fact that shows me wrong or begone ye troll!
>
> How about you first post factual evidence to support your assertions and
> we'll take it from there. Or don't they teach you the rules of rational
and
> reasoned argument supported by verifiable evidence in amerikkkan skkkool?
>
>
>
have time to respond to posts in a intelligent way so just say "site your
sources" their throw their own question back at them.
In America rural white males over 30 have the highest gun ownership rates
and a very low crime rate. Rural woman of the same age also have a very high
gun ownership rates and the lowest rate of committing violent crime. Urban
blacks and Hispanics under 25 years old are much less likely to own guns,
and even though they are a minority of the population they commit the
majority of all violent crime. In other words your full of shit, but as a
troll you know that. Do you even believe what your cut and pasting or would
you be just as likely to discuss "atheism as a religion" or "God loves you"
on alt.atheism
Here is a link to check these facts out and much more
Sam A. Kersh
wrote:
><rbo...@ticnet.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Just brit penal colonists.
>
>Correction...
>
>> Just brit penile colonists.
Is this your way of admitting you're a prick?
Scout
"Greg" <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3998965B...@ihug.co.nz...
Care to tell us what the numbers would be if we used the murder rates from
the gun control nations of Jamacia and Mexico?
If you are going to blame our high rates on the presence of guns, then their
high rates must come from the absence of guns.....
phx...@home.com
>
> You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
> rest of the world at least farts on the truth.
Marksman
> Randy Howard wrote:
> >
> > In article <8X7m5.182$re1....@news0.optus.net.au>,
ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au
> > says...
> > > americanised (adjusted and manipulated to suit an argument or cause)
> >
> > have been aussified (adjusted and manipulated to suit an
> > argument or cause) do you?
> >
> > --
> > Randy Howard
>
>
Then how come truth is so foreign to you?
rbo...@ticnet.com
<polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>James D. Nicholson <jam...@akamail.com> wrote in message
>news:399939E7...@akamail.com...
>> Tigga wrote:
>
>> Read the credit lines, Sport.
>> PLONK
>
>Read the subject headers, fuckchop.
Candida, please follow the thread. Threads do change without
someone altering the subject line.
Sam A. Kersh
>Randy Howard wrote:
>>
>> In article <8X7m5.182$re1....@news0.optus.net.au>, ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au
>> says...
>> > its not a dot AU address... the figures would have been
>> > americanised (adjusted and manipulated to suit an argument or cause)
>>
>> You don't suppose that figures posted on a .AU address would
>> have been aussified (adjusted and manipulated to suit an
>> argument or cause) do you?
>>
>> --
>> Randy Howard
>
>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
Now that's one of the biggest lies you've told so far...
Greg
John A. Stovall
snipped
>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
nation states. Silly me.
When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
The Universe doesn't care.
*************************************
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However" replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
Stephen Crane
John A. Stovall
<john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>snipped
>>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
>>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
>
>I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
>nation states. Silly me.
>
>When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
Errata "When" should be "Where"
Greg
> the gun control nations of Jamacia and Mexico?
>
Not particularly, this is a newsgroup relating to the USA.
Please do feel free to post those rates if you wish. Imagine the glory
of being able to say "we are better than Mexico and Jamaica". are you?
> If you are going to blame our high rates on the presence of guns, then their
> high rates must come from the absence of guns.....
I am not blaming your excessive rates on guns, the problem is due to
social attitudes.
Greg.P.
Sam A. Kersh
>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:59:15 +0100, John A. Stovall
><john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>snipped
>>>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
>>>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
>>
>>I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
>>nation states. Silly me.
>>
>>When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
>
>Errata "When" should be "Where"
>
Thought we might have encountered a spacial distortion.
>>
>>The Universe doesn't care.
>>
Sam A. Kersh
John A. Stovall
wrote:
>John A. Stovall <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:59:15 +0100, John A. Stovall
>><john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>snipped
>>>>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
>>>>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
>>>
>>>I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
>>>nation states. Silly me.
>>>
>>>When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
>>
>>Errata "When" should be "Where"
>>
>
>Thought we might have encountered a spacial distortion.
>
No, just bad typing skills and the spell checker in Agent 1.8 not
sending what I mean rather than what I type.
If I could type, I would be manager.
*****************************************************
Chance proposes. Death disposes.
African Genesis
Robert Ardrey
John A. Stovall
<john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:36:18 GMT, csmk...@flash.net (Sam A. Kersh)
>wrote:
>
>>John A. Stovall <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:59:15 +0100, John A. Stovall
>>><john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>snipped
>>>>>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
>>>>>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
>>>>
>>>>I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
>>>>nation states. Silly me.
>>>>
>>>>When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
>>>
>>>Errata "When" should be "Where"
>>>
>>
>>Thought we might have encountered a spacial distortion.
>>
>
>No, just bad typing skills and the spell checker in Agent 1.8 not
>sending what I mean rather than what I type.
>
>If I could type, I would be manager.
Errata, "would be manager" should be "would not be a manger".
See this what high tech does to you.
You get to trusting it and for get about Godel.
****************************************************
An' you'll never see your soldiers any more!
Yes, the Large Birds o' Prey
They will carry us away,
An' you'll never see your soldiers any more!
"Birds of Prey" March
Rudyard Kipling
John A. Stovall
<john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 02:43:59 +0100, John A. Stovall
><john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:36:18 GMT, csmk...@flash.net (Sam A. Kersh)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>John A. Stovall <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:59:15 +0100, John A. Stovall
>>>><john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>snipped
>>>>>>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
>>>>>>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
>>>>>
>>>>>I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
>>>>>nation states. Silly me.
>>>>>
>>>>>When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
>>>>
>>>>Errata "When" should be "Where"
>>>>
>>>
>>>Thought we might have encountered a spacial distortion.
>>>
>>
>>No, just bad typing skills and the spell checker in Agent 1.8 not
>>sending what I mean rather than what I type.
>>
>>If I could type, I would be manager.
>
>Errata, "would be manager" should be "would not be a manger".
Damn!! This new installation of Agent still isn't don't good spell
checking.
"manger" should be "manager"
Maybe I should short Qualcom?
Greg
>
> Sam A. Kersh
Ahh, mirror writing!
phx...@home.com
>
> I am not blaming your excessive rates on guns, the problem is due to
> social attitudes.
>
> Greg.P.
High time, indeed. Now apologize for those wildly inane things you've
been saying about guns, & watch yo mouf from here on out....
Greg
>
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> snipped
> >You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
> >rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
>
> I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
> nation states. Silly me.
>
Yes, silly you. Where did you get an idea like that from?
> When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
Mathematics is only relative.
Truth; n. Quality, state, of being true or accurate or honest or sincere
or loyal or accurately shaped or adjusted.
>
> The Universe doesn't care.
But your mother does.
Greg
>
> John A. Stovall <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:59:15 +0100, John A. Stovall
> ><john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> >>
> >>snipped
> >>>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
> >>>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
> >>
> >>I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
> >>nation states. Silly me.
> >>
> >>When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
> >
> >Errata "When" should be "Where"
> >
>
> Thought we might have encountered a spacial distortion.
>
Don't worry Sam, if we ever need help in identifing one, we are sure to
think of you.
Greg
>
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:59:15 +0100, John A. Stovall
> <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> >snipped
> >>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
> >>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
> >
> >I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
> >nation states. Silly me.
> >
> >When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
>
> Errata "When" should be "Where"
>
Ahh, that makes more sense!
See previous answer.
Greg
>
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 02:43:59 +0100, John A. Stovall
> <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:36:18 GMT, csmk...@flash.net (Sam A. Kersh)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>John A. Stovall <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:59:15 +0100, John A. Stovall
> >>><john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>snipped
> >>>>>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
> >>>>>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
> >>>>
> >>>>I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
> >>>>nation states. Silly me.
> >>>>
> >>>>When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
> >>>
> >>>Errata "When" should be "Where"
> >>>
> >>
> >>Thought we might have encountered a spacial distortion.
> >>
> >
> >No, just bad typing skills and the spell checker in Agent 1.8 not
> >sending what I mean rather than what I type.
> >
> >If I could type, I would be manager.
>
> Errata, "would be manager" should be "would not be a manger".
> See this what high tech does to you.
You are a manger? Hay hay!
>
> You get to trusting it and for get about Godel.
Help Sam! I think I need your opinion!
Greg
Phuxy, just because your mouth was too full of spittle to hear what I
have been saying, don't assume that it was not said on numerous
occassions previously.
Now, go play in the archives until you find that apology.
Tigga
kqualls <kqualls@nospammersallowed_chartertn.net> wrote in message
news:39994...@news.chartertn.net...
The Union Jack (Combination of flags from Scotland, Nth Ireland and England)
is there to represent our settlement heritage... you remember what heritage
means don't you? did they teach you what that means in school or were you to
busy dodging bullets?? It means "Past" (sorry thats as good as I can explain
using only one syllable words so you morons can understand)....
In any case... good attempt to avoid the point of the post....
Tigga
1-Octadecene kadaitcha <polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS> wrote
in message news:C4BB0C43.0...@kadaitcha.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> news:64B4BE70F751BCB0.4B7BEBC9...@lp.airnews.net...
> > On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:22:48 +1000, "Tigga" <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Not Brits you moron...
> >
> > Just brit penal colonists.
>
> Correction...
>
> > Just brit penile colonists.
>
You're a couple of hundred years too late... so it must be true... yankkks
do live in the past... the "good 'ol days" before gang violence and school
shootings....
Tigga
> John A. Stovall wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> > snipped
> Truth; n. Quality, state, of being true or accurate or honest or sincere
> or loyal or accurately shaped or adjusted.
None of which are qualities of an americunt....
Tigga
Craig <crai...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:9o9kpscfk6hslr9qg...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:27:17 +1000, "Tigga"
> <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >The Union Jack (Combination of flags from Scotland, Nth Ireland and
England)
> >is there to represent our settlement heritage... you remember what
heritage
> >means don't you? did they teach you what that means in school or were you
to
> >busy dodging bullets?? It means "Past" (sorry thats as good as I can
explain
> >using only one syllable words so you morons can understand)....
>
>
You still here?
Tigga
Randy Howard <rhowa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1402c81ed...@news.us.dell.com...
> In article <8X7m5.182$re1....@news0.optus.net.au>,
ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au
> says...
> > its not a dot AU address... the figures would have been
> > americanised (adjusted and manipulated to suit an argument or cause)
>
> You don't suppose that figures posted on a .AU address would
> have been aussified (adjusted and manipulated to suit an
> argument or cause) do you?
>
is a bit more reputable than any yankkk (dis)organisation.
Aster occidentalis kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
Tigga <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au> wrote in message
news:KGpm5.57$QQ6....@news0.optus.net.au...
"good ol' days?" That'd be the wild west, right?
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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Oliva annulata nebulosa kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
<rbo...@ticnet.com> wrote in message
news:CEB1521BBB05B43B.11B117C2...@lp.airnews.net...
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:44:03 +0100, Clanculus brunneus kadaitcha
> <polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS> wrote:
>
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >Hash: SHA1
> >
> >James D. Nicholson <jam...@akamail.com> wrote in message
> >news:399939E7...@akamail.com...
> >> Tigga wrote:
> >
> >> Read the credit lines, Sport.
> >> PLONK
> >
> >Read the subject headers, fuckchop.
>
> Candida, please follow the thread. Threads do change without
> someone altering the subject line.
I create the threads. You follow.
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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rbo...@ticnet.com
wrote:
>
>The Union Jack (Combination of flags from Scotland, Nth Ireland and England)
>is there to represent our settlement heritage... you remember what heritage
>means don't you? did they teach you what that means in school or were you to
>busy dodging bullets?? It means "Past" (sorry thats as good as I can explain
>using only one syllable words so you morons can understand)....
>
>In any case... good attempt to avoid the point of the post....
You're a couple of hundred years too late... so it must be true...
yankkks
do live in the past... the "good 'ol days" before gang violence and
school
shootings....
What's that about someone living in the past?
James D. Nicholson
> >is there to represent our settlement heritage... you remember what heritage
> >means don't you? did they teach you what that means in school or were you to
> >busy dodging bullets?? It means "Past" (sorry thats as good as I can explain
> >using only one syllable words so you morons can understand)....
>
What he and his failed to take into account was his heritage from 1689.
--
Jim Nicholson
http://www.tsra.com
Every general increase of freedom is accompanied by some degeneracy,
attributable to the same causes as the freedom. Charles Horton Cooley
(1864-1929), U.S. sociologist.
Ralph
news:dcsjpson3aqqjoo26...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:36:18 GMT, csmk...@flash.net (Sam A. Kersh)
> wrote:
>
> >John A. Stovall <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:59:15 +0100, John A. Stovall
> >><john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:02 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>snipped
> >>>>You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
> >>>>rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
> >>>
> >>>I thought "moral values" were absolute not relative like the values of
> >>>nation states. Silly me.
> >>>
> >>>When in the world is "truth" except in mathematics?
> >>
> >>Errata "When" should be "Where"
> >>
> >
> >Thought we might have encountered a spacial distortion.
> >
>
> No, just bad typing skills and the spell checker in Agent 1.8 not
> sending what I mean rather than what I type.
Haven't you got a *brain* for a spell checker?
> If I could type, I would be manager.
Nah, you'd only end up as a typist at best.
Now if you could get your grammar right...
Ralph
Ralph
John A. Stovall <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ldujpskffikdf6rq9...@4ax.com...
John A. Stovall <john.a....@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ldujpskffikdf6rq9...@4ax.com...
> >>If I could type, I would be manager.
> >
> >Errata, "would be manager" should be "would not be a manger".
>
> Damn!! This new installation of Agent still isn't don't good spell
> checking.
That's because you've installed it upside down!
Shows that a spell checker doesn't improve your grammar: "still isn't don't
good"??? Duh!
> "manger" should be "manager"
>
> Maybe I should short Qualcom?
>
> >See this what high tech does to you.
Pity what you are doing to your *computer*: you're confusing it!
Ralph
kqualls
>
> kqualls <kqualls@nospammersallowed_chartertn.net> wrote in message
> news:39994...@news.chartertn.net...
> >
> > still not so closely associated with the British in philosophy and
> heritage
> > why would your government keep the British flag as part of your own
> > countries flag?
> >
> > For those that want to say it isn't so here is a couple of links. The
> first
> > is to the flag of the United Kingdom, i.e. the British.
>
> The Union Jack (Combination of flags from Scotland, Nth Ireland and
England)
> is there to represent our settlement heritage... you remember what
heritage
> means don't you? did they teach you what that means in school or were you
to
> busy dodging bullets?? It means "Past" (sorry thats as good as I can
explain
> using only one syllable words so you morons can understand)....
>
> In any case... good attempt to avoid the point of the post....
Hmm.. we never seemed to have a problem with guns being fired in the schools
when I went to school. The kids left them in the cars. We then went out
squirrel or rabbit hunting after school in the farms around the schools. We
never had any school shootings. This started happening when some of
teachers came back from the 'enlightened countries' like Great Britain and
stated trying to implement the same type of education that they were using
there. The kids then got unruly and the parents were told to start giving
the kids drugs like ridlin (just like they do in those 'enlightened
countries'). Now that we have no real education and kids coming off of the
drugs we get a few school shootings and it is the guns fault and not the
fault of the kids themselves or of the root cause of non-education and
withdrawals from psychotropic drugs.
I fully understand heritage. My ancestors were here before any white man
ever settled here. They were here and greeted the first white man to the
shores here. But for some reason the English who settled here thought that
they had to steal the land from my ancestors and shoot them when they
wouldn't give up their land 'peacefully.' But so goes the way that the
English settled every land. When the English settled in Australia they
tried to eliminate the indigenous people as it was.
As long as your country keeps the 'union jack' as part of it's flag that
identifies them with the UK and as such you will remain Brits in the mind of
the rest of the world. It is even more sad that the Brits that were shipped
to your shores were the convicts.
But I have to say one thing for you Aussies, your women are not so
'barbaric' as in some countries. They don't mind running around the beaches
with their breasts in full view. I guess that as we move from savage to
barbarian we learn to cover our breasts, but as we gain enlightenment we
learn that the savage was right to begin with. But since the savage also
knows that they have the right to protect themselves with any weapon they
choose, so should the enlightened countries. But alas, I guess you have not
gained that much enlightenment yet. Maybe your country will gain that much
enlightenment one of these centuries.
--
Thanks
Kevin Qualls
kwqu...@hotmail.com
NRA-ILA Volunteer EVC - 1st U.S. Congressional District TN
http://kwqualls.tripod.com
If you want to participate in electing pro-firearms candidates in this
election cycle please email me or join the email discussion group dedicated
to that topic at http://www.egroups.com/group/NRA-ILA_TN-1
kqualls
<polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS> wrote in message
news:37D5BFE3.0...@kadaitcha.com...
> >
> > You're a couple of hundred years too late... so it must be true...
yankkks
> > do live in the past... the "good 'ol days" before gang violence and
school
> > shootings....
>
>
Another foreigner who gets their history from the movies and television.
Get a clue, the wild west was not so wild in the real world.
Verne
> >
> > kqualls <kqualls@nospammersallowed_chartertn.net> wrote in message
> > news:39994...@news.chartertn.net...
> > >
were
> > > still not so closely associated with the British in philosophy and
> > heritage
> > > why would your government keep the British flag as part of your own
> > > countries flag?
> > >
> > > For those that want to say it isn't so here is a couple of links. The
> > first
> > > is to the flag of the United Kingdom, i.e. the British.
> >
> > The Union Jack (Combination of flags from Scotland, Nth Ireland and
> England)
> > is there to represent our settlement heritage... you remember what
> heritage
> > means don't you? did they teach you what that means in school or were
you
> to
> > busy dodging bullets?? It means "Past" (sorry thats as good as I can
> explain
> > using only one syllable words so you morons can understand)....
> >
> > In any case... good attempt to avoid the point of the post....
>
schools
> when I went to school. The kids left them in the cars. We then went out
> squirrel or rabbit hunting after school in the farms around the schools.
We
> never had any school shootings. This started happening when some of
> teachers came back from the 'enlightened countries' like Great Britain and
> stated trying to implement the same type of education that they were using
> there. The kids then got unruly and the parents were told to start giving
> the kids drugs like ridlin (just like they do in those 'enlightened
> countries').
Seems that on this they were misinformed as from what I have read the
European medical community is horrified that we use Ritalin and Prozac on
our children as am I
> Now that we have no real education and kids coming off of the
> drugs we get a few school shootings and it is the guns fault and not the
> fault of the kids themselves or of the root cause of non-education and
> withdrawals from psychotropic drugs.
I can't think of even one school shooting were the kids were not being
treated with a psychotropic drug.
Verne
Greg
Well, that's why I had to write it out for them!
Greg
>
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:27:17 +1000, "Tigga" <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >is there to represent our settlement heritage... you remember what heritage
> >means don't you? did they teach you what that means in school or were you to
> >busy dodging bullets?? It means "Past" (sorry thats as good as I can explain
> >using only one syllable words so you morons can understand)....
> >
> >In any case... good attempt to avoid the point of the post....
>
> yankkks
> do live in the past... the "good 'ol days" before gang violence and
> school
> shootings....
>
> Rick Bowen
It only applies to people living on the same planet Rick, go back to
sleep now.
Scott Miller
In article <3999ED24...@ihug.co.nz>, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>Not particularly, this is a newsgroup relating to the USA.
>Please do feel free to post those rates if you wish. Imagine the glory
>of being able to say "we are better than Mexico and Jamaica". are you?
>
>> If you are going to blame our high rates on the presence of guns, then
>their
>> high rates must come from the absence of guns.....
>
>I am not blaming your excessive rates on guns, the problem is due to
>social attitudes.
>
>Greg.P.
Greg makes some sense finally! Woo-hoo, there's hope for him yet! He admits it
not the guns' fault!
--Scott Miller
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and
never will be."
--Thomas Jefferson
citizen
Your just jealous of us Yanks!
You and your pussy ass little country
knuckled under,you aint men anymore!
go and shave your little nuts clean!
Then after your done with that,you won't
have to put on an Act anymore!
Scout
> > > Sam A. Cherish wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Sam A. Kersh wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jim McCulloch <mccu...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >in article 39961778....@news.flash.net, Sam A. Kersh at
> > > > >> >csmk...@flash.net wrote on 8/12/00 10:29 PM:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >> That study can be found in the Department of Justice
publication
> > > > >> >> NCJ-169284, "Crime in the United States and in England and
Wales,
> > > > >> >> 1981-96," dated October 1998.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> By and large, the study showed crime and violent crime was
> > committed at
> > > > >> >> a much higher rate in "gun-safe" England than by those
'murderous
> > > > >> >> colonials.'
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >Once again, Sam, I have to say I am puzzled by why you bring up
> > these rather
> > > > >> >damning statistics.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >It is fairly obvious that, if, as you and several gun
enthusiasts on
> > the gun
> > > > >> >newsgroups have pointed out, the inhabitants of England,
Scotland,
> > and Wales
> > > > >> >are as violent as we are (indeed, more violent, perhaps), yet
(and
> > this is
> > > > >> >undisputed) the murder rate in Britain is _vastly_ lower than
the
> > murder
> > > > >> >rate in the United States, then it is very plausible that the
reason
> > for the
> > > > >> >lower murder rate is that guns are correspondingly scarcer in
> > Britain than
> > > > >> >in the USA.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >In other words, a bar fight, or a traffic dispute leading to
> > assault, or a
> > > > >> >dispute between gangs, or a domestic dispute, or any quarrel you
can
> > > > >> >imagine, are all as likely to lead to violence in Britain as
here.
> > But not
> > > > >> >to murder. What's different? Guns.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Wrong. Ethnic groups and cultures... or have you forgotten
Europe
> > > > >> where most American's forbearers came from? The Swiss are known
for
> > > > >> their chocolates and full-auto battle rifles behind the kitchen
> > door...
> > > > >> Germany, France, and most others have a "gun culture" but not the
> > > > >> crime/homicide rate we do...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >Now I realize, that's simplistic. I can _imagine_ some other
cause
> > of the
> > > > >> >difference in murder rates. The trouble is, I just can't
imagine
> > one that
> > > > >> >would stand up to scrutiny. Help me out, Sam.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Well, Jim, the answer is not at all pleasing to you liberals....
A
> > > > >> minority that makes up a mere 12.5 percent of our population is
> > > > >> responsible for 49 percent of the homicides(1). We Caucasians
> > account
> > > > >> for 83 percent of the population and also are responsible for 49
> > percent
> > > > >> of the homicides.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1. See "Nature", page 17, FBI UCR for 1998.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And glad to see you're posting on your dime, not the
University's...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sam A. Kersh
> > > > >
> > > > >Right, lets run with those numbers:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1996 gun murder statistics:
> > > > > Population: per 100,000 at US rate
> > > > > New Zealand 2 3.6 0.055 128.
> > > > >
> > > > > Australia 13 18.2 0.071 647.
> > > > >
> > > > > Japan 15 125.4 0.012 4,460.
> > > > >
> > > > > Great Britain 30 58.7 0.051 2,088.
> > > > >
> > > > > Canada 106 28.2 0.376 1,003.
> > > > >
> > > > > Germany 211 76.3 0.276 2,714.
> > > > >
> > > > > TEXAS 787 ?
> > > > > at NZ's
rate
> > > > > USA 9,390 264.0 3.557 1,467.
> > > > > at Japan's
rate
> > > > > 316.
> > > > >
> > > > >US Caucasians: 4,601 219.1M 2.100
> > > > >US Minority": 4,601 33.0M 13.942
> > > > >US Others: 188 11.9M 1.580
> > > >
> > > > Greg, I told you before, get the correct data, not the
misinformation
> > > > from the VPC... the only thing you've posted that's even in the
> > > > ballpark is the population breakdown of the U.S.
> > > >
> > > > Sam A. Kersh
> > >
> > > Oh, "Little Sam you am", if you don't like the numbers, show us which
> > > ones are wrong.
> > > The population figures are from my "New Zealand Statistics book.
> > > The US and New Zealand figures are verified by me. The extensions are
> > > courtesy of my little scientific calculator (made in China)
> > > Do tell us all where I am wrong.
> >
> > Care to tell us what the numbers would be if we used the murder rates
from
> > the gun control nations of Jamacia and Mexico?
> >
>
> Not particularly, this is a newsgroup relating to the USA.
> Please do feel free to post those rates if you wish. Imagine the glory
> of being able to say "we are better than Mexico and Jamaica". are you?
>
> > If you are going to blame our high rates on the presence of guns, then
their
> > high rates must come from the absence of guns.....
>
> I am not blaming your excessive rates on guns, the problem is due to
> social attitudes.
Hmmm. So of course we should adopt your social attitudes which cause a
violent crime rate TWICE that of the US?
Scout
> Randy Howard wrote:
> >
> > In article <8X7m5.182$re1....@news0.optus.net.au>,
ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au
> > says...
> > > its not a dot AU address... the figures would have been
> > > americanised (adjusted and manipulated to suit an argument or cause)
> >
> > You don't suppose that figures posted on a .AU address would
> > have been aussified (adjusted and manipulated to suit an
> > argument or cause) do you?
> >
> > Randy Howard
>
> You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
> rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
Excuse me, but throughout your dicussion haven't you been attempting to
apply your moral values to the US? Now you say that it shouldn't be done.
So why are you doing what you say shouldn't be done?
Truth, let's look at the truth, not a single nation has EVER has a reduction
in crime rates that could be demonstrated to have resulted from gun control.
UK impliments gun control, UK violent crime rates climb.
So tell us about the truth you would like us to see.......
Scout
When the crown ruled with an iron fist and you did exactly what you were
order to by the King or be thrown in prison without trial, hearing, appeal
or even knowledge of what your "crime" was...
Yep, if that is your idea of the "good old days", I'll take the rare and
unusual events of gang violence and school shootings.
Verne
snip.
> >
> > Hmmm. So of course we should adopt your social attitudes which cause a
> > violent crime rate TWICE that of the US?
>
> Sorry there Scout, did I bamboozle you with too many numbers?
> New Zealand 0.055 per 100,000
> USA 3.557 per 100,000
>
> The US rate is 64.67 times the New Zealand rate. Quite a big increase,
> isn't it?
Greg you comparing the United States of America to a small island To be fair
we would need to limit this to say Utah or Idaho.
Verne
Verne
> >
> > snip.
> > > >
> > > > Hmmm. So of course we should adopt your social attitudes which cause
a
> > > > violent crime rate TWICE that of the US?
> > >
> > > New Zealand 0.055 per 100,000
> > > USA 3.557 per 100,000
> > >
> > > The US rate is 64.67 times the New Zealand rate. Quite a big increase,
> > > isn't it?
> >
> > Greg you comparing the United States of America to a small island To be
fair
> > we would need to limit this to say Utah or Idaho.
> >
> > Verne
>
> separate "islands" if you wish - I'm sure some will come a bit closer to
> our figure and some will be vastly out ahead. The point is that you have
> an awful lot more violence than we do and some factor or factors cause
> that difference. You all need to figure out what that or those factors
> are and begin to deal with them. The gun thing is just a symptom of the
> whole problem and removing the guns would not solve the problem. In
> saying that, I still consider that removing the guns of those that are
> obviously problematical will make a worthwhile difference.
We are not the same as you Greg. On the good side were much more ambitious
and hard working making us a very rich and powerful nation. On the bad side
were more violent. It makes much more sense for us to look at the less
violent parts of our own nation and ask what are we doing right here than to
compare ourselves to a peaceful little island on the opposite side of the
Earth.
Verne
Greg
Sorry there Scout, did I bamboozle you with too many numbers?
Greg
> > Randy Howard wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <8X7m5.182$re1....@news0.optus.net.au>,
> ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au
> > > says...
> > > > its not a dot AU address... the figures would have been
> > > > americanised (adjusted and manipulated to suit an argument or cause)
> > >
> > > You don't suppose that figures posted on a .AU address would
> > > have been aussified (adjusted and manipulated to suit an
> > > argument or cause) do you?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Randy Howard
> >
> > You are trying to apply US moral values to another nation. Most of the
> > rest of the world at least starts with the truth.
>
> Excuse me, but throughout your dicussion haven't you been attempting to
> apply your moral values to the US? Now you say that it shouldn't be done.
>
> So why are you doing what you say shouldn't be done?
>
No, I have not been trying to apply my country's moral values to the USA
- I have been suggesting that your country's moral values are not high
enough and that _you_ should improve them. There is a difference.
> Truth, let's look at the truth, not a single nation has EVER has a reduction
> in crime rates that could be demonstrated to have resulted from gun control.
>
> UK impliments gun control, UK violent crime rates climb.
>
> So tell us about the truth you would like us to see.......
I agree, tighter gun controls will not greatly reduce NZ's 1977 murder
figure of TWO.
perhaps the US figure might benefit eventually with some gun control
though?
Greg
>
> "Tigga" <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au> wrote in message
> news:KGpm5.57$QQ6....@news0.optus.net.au...
> >
> order to by the King or be thrown in prison without trial, hearing, appeal
> or even knowledge of what your "crime" was...
>
> Yep, if that is your idea of the "good old days", I'll take the rare and
> unusual events of gang violence and school shootings.
That was your "good old days" too.
Greg
> > Scout wrote:
> > >
> > > "Greg" <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> > > news:3999ED24...@ihug.co.nz...
>
> > >
> > > Hmmm. So of course we should adopt your social attitudes which cause a
> > > violent crime rate TWICE that of the US?
> >
> > Sorry there Scout, did I bamboozle you with too many numbers?
> > New Zealand 0.055 per 100,000
> > USA 3.557 per 100,000
> >
> > The US rate is 64.67 times the New Zealand rate. Quite a big increase,
> > isn't it?
>
Greg
> > Scout wrote:
> > >
> > > "Greg" <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> > > news:3999ED24...@ihug.co.nz...
>
> > >
> > > Hmmm. So of course we should adopt your social attitudes which cause a
> > > violent crime rate TWICE that of the US?
> >
> > Sorry there Scout, did I bamboozle you with too many numbers?
> > New Zealand 0.055 per 100,000
> > USA 3.557 per 100,000
> >
> > The US rate is 64.67 times the New Zealand rate. Quite a big increase,
> > isn't it?
>
kqualls
>
> I agree, tighter gun controls will not greatly reduce NZ's 1977 murder
> figure of TWO.
> perhaps the US figure might benefit eventually with some gun control
> though?
In the areas of the U.S. where they have tried restricting and banning
firearms ownership, the violent crime rate including the murder rate went
up. So tighter gun control does not automatically mean lower murder or
violent crime rates. Why is that? Because gun control laws only affect the
law abiding citizens; those who would not be committing crimes with the guns
they own anyway.
It has been shown that by relaxing the laws concerning law abiding citizens
owning and carrying firearms for personal defense AND by enforcing the
existing laws against criminal misuse of guns makes a dramatic decrease in
the violent crime rates including murder.
Thermotoga kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
Craig <crai...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4igppskdo9n1lr666...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:46:53 +1200, Greg <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> >Verne wrote:
> >>
> >> "Greg" <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> >> news:399C87A7...@ihug.co.nz...
> >> > Scout wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > "Greg" <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> >> > > news:3999ED24...@ihug.co.nz...
> >>
> >> snip.
> >> > >
> >> > > Hmmm. So of course we should adopt your social attitudes which
cause a
> >> > > violent crime rate TWICE that of the US?
> >> >
> >> > Sorry there Scout, did I bamboozle you with too many numbers?
> >> > New Zealand 0.055 per 100,000
> >> > USA 3.557 per 100,000
> >> >
> >> > The US rate is 64.67 times the New Zealand rate. Quite a big
increase,
> >> > isn't it?
> >>
> >> Greg you comparing the United States of America to a small island To be
fair
> >> we would need to limit this to say Utah or Idaho.
> >>
> >> Verne
> >
> >There are 3.8 million people here. Sure, you may split the USA into 74
> >separate "islands" if you wish - I'm sure some will come a bit closer to
> >our figure and some will be vastly out ahead. The point is that you have
> >an awful lot more violence than we do and some factor or factors cause
> >that difference. You all need to figure out what that or those factors
> >are and begin to deal with them. The gun thing is just a symptom of the
> >whole problem and removing the guns would not solve the problem. In
> >saying that, I still consider that removing the guns of those that are
> >obviously problematical will make a worthwhile difference.
>
> Greg, your argument is not without merit, but you fail to see that we
> (Americans, including Verne and I) do not want criminals to have guns.
> If after all this time you don't get it I'll say it one more time --
> Law abiding citizens are not the problem, and guns are not a problem
> in the hands of law abiding citizens.
Until that law abiding citizen becomes a criminal.
> You seem to assert that we have no laws regarding the ownership of
> weapons by convicted felons. The truth is that we have more than
> enough laws to take care of punishing those who should not own weapons
> but do. The problem is enforcing those laws without restricting the
> freedoms of a vast majority of the population. You have stated that
> you would give up freedom for safety, but most of America would gladly
> give up perceived safety for their freedom.
Then if you cannot be safe, you cannot be truly free.
Thankyou. I accept your capitulation.
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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S. R. Sheffield
>
>Then if you cannot be safe, you cannot be truly free.
>
>Thankyou. I accept your capitulation.
>
>
>
>- --
No one, anywhere, is completely safe, but there's no sense in trading
you freedom for the illusion.
Just trying to make the pig sing. forgive me.
SRS
Cypraea bistrinotata mediocris kadaitcha
Hash: SHA1
S. R. Sheffield <srshe...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:399d03da...@news.mindspring.com...
> snip
> >
> >Then if you cannot be safe, you cannot be truly free.
> >
> >Thankyou. I accept your capitulation.
> >
> >
> >
> >- --
> snip
>
> No one, anywhere, is completely safe, but there's no sense in trading
> you freedom for the illusion.
Why would I want to trade my freedom for your illusion?
a
- --
The end of the internet...
http://www.kadaitcha.cjb.net/
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Tigga
Scout <sc...@monumental.com> wrote in message
news:ujZm5.14741$Y51.1...@iad-read.news.verio.net...
>
> "Tigga" <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au> wrote in message
> news:KGpm5.57$QQ6....@news0.optus.net.au...
> >
> > 1-Octadecene kadaitcha <polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS>
> wrote
> > in message news:C4BB0C43.0...@kadaitcha.com...
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > >
> news:64B4BE70F751BCB0.4B7BEBC9...@lp.airnews.net...
> > > > On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:22:48 +1000, "Tigga"
> <ti...@NOSPAM.start.net.au>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Not Brits you moron...
> > > >
> > > > Just brit penal colonists.
> > >
> > > Correction...
> > >
> > > > Just brit penile colonists.
> > >
> >
> > You're a couple of hundred years too late... so it must be true...
yankkks
> > do live in the past... the "good 'ol days" before gang violence and
school
> > shootings....
>
> When the crown ruled with an iron fist and you did exactly what you were
> order to by the King or be thrown in prison without trial, hearing, appeal
> or even knowledge of what your "crime" was...
>
> Yep, if that is your idea of the "good old days", I'll take the rare and
> unusual events of gang violence and school shootings.
Oh gawd... READ some unamericanised history please! And don't thin you are
fooling anyone with that "unusual events..." bullshit...
Tigga
Yeah, but then their "good old days" involved shooting more indians,
enslaving more blacks, shooting eachother, then shooting anyone in
range.....
kqualls
"Thermotoga kadaitcha" <polyesterglo...@themovie.atYOUR_NUTS> wrote
in message news:BE797D7E.0...@kadaitcha.com...
>
> > You seem to assert that we have no laws regarding the ownership of
> > weapons by convicted felons. The truth is that we have more than
> > enough laws to take care of punishing those who should not own weapons
> > but do. The problem is enforcing those laws without restricting the
> > freedoms of a vast majority of the population. You have stated that
> > you would give up freedom for safety, but most of America would gladly
> > give up perceived safety for their freedom.
>
>
> Thankyou. I accept your capitulation.
>
It is a sure sign you lost the argument when you claim the other side
capitulated. What a lamer.
Scout
Sorry, thought you were from the UK. Another wonderful gun control
heaven....which of course does bring up the issue of why they have so much
violence if gun control is the solution.
But then gun control isn't the solution to social problems, so why are you
wasting everyone's time?