Re: Disasters

[Sid9]

"Werner" <whet...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:33304927.265.1336501387394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbh3...
> FDR relied on WW2 to I prove production and lower unemployment. Look for
> something similar when civil unrest builds.

Right.

First FDR drafted all the unemployed men into the military
There he provided them with socialistic benefits.
Free food
Free clothing
Free shelter
Free medical care
Free training.

They were no longer unemployed!

Next FDR had factories built which employed women and 4Fs.

They produced goods, weapons, explosives, tanks, ship, etc.

This stuff didn't have to be sold.

They put on ships and sent it to Europe and the Far East.

Some got sunk by German submarines, some got blown up in battle.

How did we pay for it?

We raised taxes and borrowed every nickel of the money needed.

America prospered!

America's standard of living actually improved during WWII.

So how do we apply the lesson learned during WWII?

1. Do all the things that FDR did.
2. Hire the Germans and the Japanese to destroy what we produced.

(I intend this to be a humorous attack on austerity)
(Austerity does the opposite of what FDR did. Austerity CREATES
unemployment)

[Bret Cahill]

> > FDR relied on WW2 to I prove production and lower unemployment. Look for
> > something similar when civil unrest builds.
>
> Right.
>
> First FDR drafted all the unemployed men into the military
> There he provided them with socialistic benefits.
> Free food
> Free clothing
> Free shelter
> Free medical care
> Free training.
>
> They were no longer unemployed!
>
> Next FDR had factories built which employed women and 4Fs.
>
> They produced goods, weapons, explosives, tanks, ship, etc.
>
> This stuff didn't have to be sold.
>
> They put on ships and sent it to Europe and the Far East.
>
> Some got sunk by German submarines, some got blown up in battle.
>
> How did we pay for it?
>
> We raised taxes and borrowed every nickel of the money needed.
>
> America prospered!
>
> America's standard of living actually improved during WWII.
>
> So how do we apply the lesson learned during WWII?
>
> 1. Do all the things that FDR did.

> 2. Hire the Germans and the Japanese to destroy what we produced.

It works even better if you omit "2" and let them do their own
Keynesian spending.

> (I intend this to be a humorous attack on austerity)

What's interesting is that many still believe # 2 got the economy
going, as though stacking up bodies has a beneficial effect other than
a brisk business for morticians.

That's partly why the U.S. got into so many dumb quagmires since WWII.

> (Austerity does the opposite of what FDR did. Austerity CREATES
> unemployment)

Bret Cahill

[David Hartung]

There is one major difference between then and now.

Gross Federal debt in 1940 was around 52% of GDP. Today it is around
105% of GDP.

[Sid9]

"David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
news:j6adndnbju6zLzTS...@giganews.com...

.
.
The increased economic activity will pay back the borrowed money.
The debt, as it did after WWII, will shrink by comparison.
Meanwhile, Americans lives will be improved instead of being made miserable
by austerity.

The very austerity that could bring on social unrest and violence in the
streets.
Evidence of latent street unrest is already showing up in austerity driven
nations


# blowing up the stuff and sinking the ships is not essential to the plan.
It's better that we make consumer goods and give it away to our people

[clairbear]

"Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in news:joc6pu$38o$1...@dont-email.me:

>
> "Werner" <whet...@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:33304927.265.1336501387394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbh3...
>> FDR relied on WW2 to I prove production and lower unemployment. Look
>> for something similar when civil unrest builds.
>
> Right.
>
> First FDR drafted all the unemployed men into the military
> There he provided them with socialistic benefits.
> Free food
> Free clothing
> Free shelter
> Free medical care
> Free training.
>
> They were no longer unemployed!

OIf they were no longer unemployed the were actually working fo the above
mentioned benefit there for they were not FREE

> Next FDR had factories built which employed women and 4Fs.
>
> They produced goods, weapons, explosives, tanks, ship, etc.
>
> This stuff didn't have to be sold.
>
> They put on ships and sent it to Europe and the Far East.
>
> Some got sunk by German submarines, some got blown up in battle.
>
> How did we pay for it?

By raising the national debt to levels that would not have been
substainable at that time were it not for WWII

> We raised taxes and borrowed every nickel of the money needed.
>
> America prospered!

No it was not real proserity it was a psuedo-socialist solution to a
problem

> America's standard of living actually improved during WWII.

There was rationing of nearly everything that is not a equivilent to a
higher standard of living

> So how do we apply the lesson learned during WWII?
>
> 1. Do all the things that FDR did.
> 2. Hire the Germans and the Japanese to destroy what we produced.

It was a war involving the entire world against militarist agressive
regimes
Do you really want that kind of destruction again

> (I intend this to be a humorous attack on austerity)
> (Austerity does the opposite of what FDR did. Austerity CREATES
> unemployment)
>
>

The employment you talk about is way of creating massive national debt
It was actually the after math of the war and the pent up demand from years
of, as you put, austerity and privations of war that finally ended the
depression

[clairbear]

"Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in news:joccsn$rqb$1...@dont-email.me:

WE manufactured the war goods and those factories then change to
consumer good to satisfy pent up demands due to years of privation
during the war. We do not, thanks to the acceleration of out sourcing
that really took off under Clinton and continued under Bush, have the
manufacturing infrastructure that we had at the end of WWII That's all
been shipped to Asia and other parts of the less affluent parts of the
world. There are at least 5 factories sitting empty in my hometown Emty
of product Empty of tool Empty of jobs We do not have the entrepenuers
do to the tax the rich mentality and years of complacencyby government,
the American business community, and our government teat dependent
people

> The very austerity that could bring on social unrest and violence in
> the streets.
> Evidence of latent street unrest is already showing up in austerity
> driven nations

Auserrity or privations of war the "greatest Generation" dealt with led
to that pent up deamd for all sorts of consumer goods They knew how to
make sacrifices for a better future. WE are all just a bunch of spoiled
kids by comparison

[Lamont Cranston]

Could you please restate using language and spelling approximating
standard American English?

[Sid9]

"clairbear" <clai...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA04DD0CE1...@216.196.97.142...

.
.
.
I knew this was beyond you.
This was a lesson in Keynesian economics.

[clairbear]

Lamont Cranston <EnemyOfThoseWh...@Penumbra.org> wrote in
news:jocgel$f4t$1...@news.datemas.de:

>
> Could you please restate using language and spelling approximating
> standard American English?
>

GO AWAY YOU FECKLESS, SPAMMING, NYM SHIFTING, USELESS SHITHEAD
<PLONK>

abuse report fowarded to news.datemas.de:

[clairbear]

"Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in news:jocghq$6m5$1...@dont-email.me:

REALITY IF BEYOND YOUR SENILE OLD MIND
Keynes was wrong

[Sid9]

"clairbear" <clai...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA04DD2EE0...@216.196.97.142...

The only sacrifice was with their lives.
The goods that improved their lives were given to them by a socialist system

Free food
Free clothing
Free shelter
Free medical care
Free training.

The only thing lacking in 2012 is the motivation.

We have the food, the clothing, the shelter, we can provide the medical
care, we can provide training.

We do not have the WILL to do these things.

We have greedy Americans who think that they lose something when we give
stuff away.
They identify themselves as Tea Party or Republican

[Sid9]

"Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:joch94$8gt$1...@dont-email.me...

Oooops! I even left something important out.
The "socialist" system even gave them money each month on payday.

[clairbear]

"Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in news:joch94$8gt$1...@dont-email.me:

THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH
Everything has to be created, made or earned by someone

> The only thing lacking in 2012 is the motivation.

The thing that is lacking Is the manufacturing base

>
> We have the food, the clothing, the shelter, we can provide the
> medical care, we can provide training.

WE NEED the infrastructure to build and employ That's all been
exported

> We do not have the WILL to do these things.

So if you think the American will no longer exists YOU are free to move
where ever yoiu think it's go Try India or China

> We have greedy Americans who think that they lose something when we
> give stuff away.

Like the greed of those on the government teat

> They identify themselves as Tea Party or Republican

That a lie as many rish people are liberal just look at Buffet, the
Hollyweird elite, most of the music community anf the Obama donors
BTW posting the same liberal misthruths over and over does not make
them any less false

[Sid9]

"clairbear" <clai...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA04DD9D9A...@216.196.97.142...

Tell to the Greeks and the Brits.
Tell it to our unemployed.

I gave an example above.
You have so closed a "mind" you cannot comprehend what I wrote.

[Sid9]

"clairbear" <clai...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA04DD9D9A...@216.196.97.142...

You are thick enough for the Bozo Bin.
Goodbye.

[BeamMeUpScotty]

You also left out that when you "give" someone what they want, they no
longer need to buy it.



What you "are" doing is killing the economy. No wonder we are in a
recession and still crashing.


Capitalism is freedom of trade, so when the government imposes its self
into a trade, we have lost the Capitalism.


The question is..... what is filling the void where Capitalism had
originally been.


--
*He has the most who is most content with the least* -Diogenes-

[BeamMeUpScotty]

WOW a complete thought from a Liberal.... and no one was called a
racist?


My question is; What increased economic activity? Once you borrow that
money someone (taxpayers) will have to pay it back and that burden will
slow the recovery and investment in the future.

> The very austerity that could bring on social unrest and violence in the
> streets.

What will total and unlimited collapse bring?

You want to ignore the ability to make choices and take the pain in
carefully proportioned steps and NOT have it all collapse at once.

It is going to be austerity, whether it is in little slightly painful
steps, or whether it is in one giant really devastating collapse.

It's like a LOAN SHARK, you have to pay him back with your house payment
money and you can suffer a little by getting tossed out of your house or
the LOAN SHARK will come and break your knee caps and take your house
from you and your life will be destroyed on a large scale.

One way you lose in little bits and the other way you go down all at once.

> Evidence of latent street unrest is already showing up in austerity
> driven nations

Allow mobs to run your life seems a bit stupid doesn't it?

[Nickname unavailable]

all well said. and i agree, it was the spending on americans and its
infrastructure that did it. we were well on our way out of the
depression before the war started in europe.

> Bret Cahill

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 8, 6:54 pm, David Hartung <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote:
> On 05/08/2012 05:30 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>

> > "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

it was much higher after the war.

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 8, 7:14 pm, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
>
> news:j6adndnbju6zLzTS...@giganews.com...
>
> > On 05/08/2012 05:30 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>

> >> "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

correct.

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 8, 7:31 pm, clairbear <clairb...@msn.com> wrote:
> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote innews:joc6pu$38o$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

you will notice that by 1939, we were on our way out of the
depression. that is before the war started in europe. if we spent the
money on yoyo's or tanks, it was the spending. and that spending was
easily paid off in the 1950's.
the pent up demand you quote would not have existed if we fell back
into depression after the war. we did not fall back into depression
because of all of the reforms of the new deal. without those reforms,
labor would not have healed, and finance and the wealthy would not
have been brought under control, we would have immediately fallen back
into depression.

http://www.aliveness.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm


TIMELINES OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION: 

This page features two timelines:
the first for general events of the Roaring 20s and the Great
Depression, the second for leading economic indicators.

The
importance of these timelines cannot be emphasized enough. Seeing the
order in which events actually occurred dispels many myths about the
Great Depression. One of the greatest of these myths is that
government intervention was responsible for its onset. Truly massive
intervention began only under the presidency of Franklin Roosevelt in
1933, who was sworn in after the worst had already hit. Although his
New Deal did not cure it, all the leading economic indicators improved
on his watch. 

But don't take my word for it -- here is the raw
data: 

TIMELINE OF GENERAL EVENTS 

1920s (Decade)
• During World War I, federal spending grows three times larger than
tax collections. When the government cuts back spending to balance the
budget in 1920, a severe recession results. However, the war economy
invested heavily in the manufacturing sector, and the next decade will
see an explosion of productivity... although only for certain sectors
of the economy.
• An average of 600 banks fail each year.
• Agricultural, energy and coal mining sectors are continually
depressed. Textiles, shoes, shipbuilding and railroads continually
decline.
• The value of farmland falls 30 to 40 percent between 1920 and 1929.
• Organized labor declines throughout the decade. The United Mine
Workers Union will see its membership fall from 500,000 in 1920 to
75,000 in 1928. The American Federation of Labor would fall from 5.1
million in 1920 to 3.4 million in 1929.
• "Technological unemployment" enters the nation's vocabulary; as
many as 200,000 workers a year are replaced by automatic or semi-
automatic machinery.
• Over the decade, about 1,200 mergers will swallow up more than
6,000 previously independent companies; by 1929, only 200 corporations
will control over half of all American industry.
• By the end of the decade, the bottom 80 percent of all income-
earners will be removed from the tax rolls completely. Taxes on the
rich will fall throughout the decade.
• By 1929, the richest 1 percent will own 40 percent of the nation's
wealth. The bottom 93 percent will have experienced a 4 percent drop
in real disposable per-capita income between 1923 and 1929.
• The middle class comprises only 15 to 20 percent of all Americans.
• Individual worker productivity rises an astonishing 43 percent from
1919 to 1929. But the rewards are being funneled to the top: the
number of people reporting half-million dollar incomes grows from 156
to 1,489 between 1920 and 1929, a phenomenal rise compared to other
decades. But that is still less than 1 percent of all income-earners.
1922
• The conservative Supreme Court strikes down federal child labor
legislation.
1923
• President Warren Harding dies in office; his administration was
easily one of the most corrupt in American history. Calvin Coolidge,
who is squeaky clean by comparison, becomes president. Coolidge is no
less committed to laissez-faire and a non-interventionist government.
He announces to the American people: "The business of America is
business."
• Supreme Court nullifies minimum wage for women in District of
Columbia.
1924
• The Ku Klux Klan reaches the height of its influence in America: by
the end of the year it will claim 9 million members. It will decline
drastically in 1925, however, after financial and moral scandals rock
its leadership.
• The stock market begins its spectacular rise. Bears little relation
to the rest of the economy.
1925
• The top tax rate is lowered to 25 percent - the lowest top rate in
the eight decades since World War I.
• Supreme Court rules that trade organizations do not violate anti-
trust laws as long as some competition survives.
1928
• The construction boom is over.
• Farmers' share of the national income has dropped from 15 to 9
percent since 1920.
• Between May 1928 and September 1929, the average prices of stocks
will rise 40 percent. Trading will mushroom from 2-3 million shares
per day to over 5 million. The boom is largely artificial.
1929
• Herbert Hoover becomes President. Hoover is a staunch individualist
but not as committed to laissez-faire ideology as Coolidge.
• More than half of all Americans are living below a minimum
subsistence level.
• Annual per-capita income is $750; for farm people, it is only $273.
• Backlog of business inventories grows three times larger than the
year before. Public consumption markedly down.
• Freight carloads and manufacturing fall.
• Automobile sales decline by a third in the nine months before the
crash.
• Construction down $2 billion since 1926.
• Recession begins in August, two months before the stock market
crash. During this two month period, production will decline at an
annual rate of 20 percent, wholesale prices at 7.5 percent, and
personal income at 5 percent.
• Stock market crash begins October 24. Investors call October 29
"Black Tuesday." Losses for the month will total $16 billion, an
astronomical sum in those days.
• Congress passes Agricultural Marketing Act to support farmers until
they can get back on their feet.
1930
• By February, the Federal Reserve has cut the prime interest rate
from 6 to 4 percent. Expands the money supply with a major purchase of
U.S. securities. However, for the next year and a half, the Fed will
add very little money to the shrinking economy. (At no time will it
actually pull money out of the system.) Treasury Secretary Andrew
Mellon announces that the Fed will stand by as the market works itself
out: "Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate real estate… values
will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wreck from
less-competent people." (More)
• The Smoot-Hawley Tariff passes on June 17. With imports forming
only 6 percent of the GNP, the 40 percent tariffs work out to an
effective tax of only 2.4 percent per citizen. Even this is
compensated for by the fact that American businesses are no longer
investing in Europe, but keeping their money stateside. The consensus
of modern economists is that the tariff made only a minor contribution
to the Great Depression in the U.S., but a major one in Europe. (More)
• The first bank panic occurs later this year; a public run on banks
results in a wave of bankruptcies. Bank failures and deposit losses
are responsible for the contracting money supply.
• Supreme Court rules that the monopoly U.S. Steel does not violate
anti-trust laws as long as competition exists, no matter how
negligible.
• Democrats gain in Congressional elections, but still do not have a
majority.
• The GNP falls 9.4 percent from the year before. The unemployment
rate climbs from 3.2 to 8.7 percent.
1931
• No major legislation is passed addressing the Depression.
• A second banking panic occurs in the spring.
• The GNP falls another 8.5 percent; unemployment rises to 15.9
percent.
1932
• This and the next year are the worst years of the Great Depression.
For 1932, GNP falls a record 13.4 percent; unemployment rises to 23.6
percent.
• Industrial stocks have lost 80 percent of their value since 1930.
• 10,000 banks have failed since 1929, or 40 percent of the 1929
total.
• About $2 billion in deposits have been lost since 1929.
• Money supply has contracted 31 percent since 1929.
• GNP has also fallen 31 percent since 1929.
• Over 13 million Americans have lost their jobs since 1929.
• Capital growth investments have dropped from $16.2 billion to 1/3
of one billion since 1929.
• Farm prices have fallen 53 percent since 1929.
• International trade has fallen by two-thirds since 1929.
• The Fed makes its first major expansion of the money supply since
February 1930.
• Congress creates the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. (More)
• Congress passes the Federal Home Loan Bank Act and the Glass-
Steagall Act of 1932. (More)
• Top tax rate is raised from 25 to 63 percent.
• Popular opinion considers Hoover's measures too little too late.
Franklin Roosevelt easily defeats Hoover in the fall election.
Democrats win control of Congress.
• At his Democratic presidential nomination, Roosevelt says: "I
pledge you, I pledge myself, to a new deal for the American people."
1933
• Roosevelt inaugurated; begins "First 100 Days" of intensive
legislative activity. (More)
• A third banking panic occurs in March. Roosevelt declares a Bank
Holiday; closes financial institutions to stop a run on banks.
• Alarmed by Roosevelt's plan to redistribute wealth from the rich to
the poor, a group of millionaire businessmen, led by the Du Pont and
J.P. Morgan empires, plans to overthrow Roosevelt with a military coup
and install a fascist government. The businessmen try to recruit
General Smedley Butler, promising him an army of 500,000, unlimited
financial backing and generous media spin control. The plot is foiled
when Butler reports it to Congress. (More)
• Congress authorizes creation of the Agricultural Adjustment
Administration, the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Farm Credit
Administration, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Federal
Emergency Relief Administration, the National Recovery Administration,
the Public Works Administration and the Tennessee Valley Authority.
(More)
• Congress passes the Emergency Banking Bill, the Glass-Steagall Act
of 1933, the Farm Credit Act, the National Industrial Recovery Act and
the Truth-in-Securities Act. (More)
• U.S. goes off the gold standard.
• Roosevelt does much to redistribute wealth from the rich to the
poor, but is obsessed with a balanced budget. He later rejects Keynes'
advice to begin heavy deficit spending.
• The free fall of the GNP is significantly slowed; it dips only 2.1
percent this year. Unemployment rises slightly, to 24.9 percent.
1934
• Congress authorizes creation of the Federal Communications
Commission, the National Mediation Board and the Securities and
Exchange Commission. (More)
• Congress passes the Securities and Exchange Act and the Trade
Agreement Act. (More)
• The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, and unemployment
falls to 21.7 percent. A long road to recovery begins.
• Sweden becomes the first nation to recover fully from the Great
Depression. It has followed a policy of Keynesian deficit spending.
(More)
1935
• The Supreme Court declares the National Recovery Administration to
be unconstitutional.
• Congress authorizes creation of the Works Progress Administration,
the National Labor Relations Board and the Rural Electrification
Administration. (More)
• Congress passes the Banking Act of 1935, the Emergency Relief
Appropriation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, and the Social
Security Act. (More)
• Economic recovery continues: the GNP grows another 8.1 percent, and
unemployment falls to 20.1 percent.
1936
• The Supreme Court declares part of the Agricultural Adjustment Act
to be unconstitutional.
• In response, Congress passes the Soil Conservation and Domestic
Allotment Act. (More)
• Top tax rate raised to 79 percent.
• Economic recovery continues: GNP grows a record 14.1 percent;
unemployment falls to 16.9 percent.
• Germany becomes the second nation to recover fully from the Great
Depression, through heavy deficit spending in preparation for war.
1937
• The Supreme Court declares the National Labor Relations Board to be
unconstitutional.
• Roosevelt seeks to enlarge and therefore liberalize the Supreme
Court. This attempt not only fails, but outrages the public.
• Economists attribute economic growth so far to heavy government
spending that is somewhat deficit. Roosevelt, however, fears an
unbalanced budget and cuts spending for 1937. That summer, the nation
plunges into another recession. Despite this, the yearly GNP rises 5.0
percent, and unemployment falls to 14.3 percent.
1938
• Congress passes the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938 and the
Fair Labor Standards Act. (More)
• No major New Deal legislation is passed after this date, due to
Roosevelt's weakened political power.
• The year-long recession makes itself felt: the GNP falls 4.5
percent, and unemployment rises to 19.0 percent.
• Britain becomes the third nation to recover as it begins deficit
spending in preparation for war.
1939
• GNP rises 7.9 percent; unemployment falls to 17.2 percent.
• The United States will begin emerging from the Depression as it
borrows and spends $1 billion to build its armed forces. From 1939 to
1941, when the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor, U.S. manufacturing will
have shot up a phenomenal 50 percent!
• The Depression is ending worldwide as nations prepare for the
coming hostilities.
• World War II starts with Hitler's invasion of Poland.
1945
• Although the war is the largest tragedy in human history, the
United States emerges as the world's only economic superpower. Deficit
spending has resulted in a national debt 123 percent the size of the
GDP. By contrast, in 1994, the $4.7 trillion national debt will be
only 70 percent of the GDP!
• The top tax rate is 91 percent. It will stay at least 88 percent
until 1963, when it is lowered to 70 percent. During this time,
America will experience the greatest economic boom it has ever known.
ECONOMIC TIMELINE

The following timeline shows the order of economic events during the
Great Depression. Notice the effect that deficit spending had on
economic growth:

Receipts: Tax receipts as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product

Spending: Federal spending as a percentage of the Gross Domestic
Product

GNP: Percent change in the Gross National Product

Unemp.: Unemployment rate

Tax Federal GNP Unemp.
Year Receipts Spending Growth Rate
-------------------------------------------------
1929 -- -- -- 3.2% < Hoover era, Great
Depression begins
1930 4.2% 3.4% - 9.4% 8.7
1931 3.7 4.3 - 8.5 15.9
1932 2.9 7.0 -13.4 23.6
1933 3.5 8.1 - 2.1 24.9 < FDR, New Deal begins;
contraction ends March
1934 4.9 10.8 + 7.7 21.7
1935 5.3 9.3 + 8.1 20.1
1936 5.1 10.6 +14.1 16.9
1937 6.2 8.7 + 5.0 14.3 < recession begins, May
1938 7.7 7.8 - 4.5 19.0 < recession ends, June
1939 7.2 10.4 + 7.9 17.2
1940 6.9 9.9
1941 7.7 12.1
1942 10.3 24.8
1943 13.7 44.8
1944 21.7 45.3
1945 21.3 43.7
As you can see, Roosevelt began relatively modest deficit spending
that arrested the slide of the economy and resulted in some
astonishing growth numbers. (Roosevelt's average growth of 5.2 percent
during the Great Depression is even higher than Reagan's 3.7 percent
growth during his so-called "Seven Fat Years!") When 1936 saw a
phenomenal record of 14 percent growth, Roosevelt eased back on the
deficit spending, overly worried about balancing the budget. But this
only caused the economy to slip back into a recession, as the above
chart shows.

I have been unable to find reliable economic growth
figures from World War II, but as a generalization it is safe to say
the economy exploded, experiencing it’s greatest growth in U.S.
history. Between 1940 and 1945, the GDP nearly doubled in size, from
$832 billion to $1,559 billion in constant 87 dollars. And this
occurred as deficit spending soared, to levels Keynes had earlier and
unsuccessfully recommended to Roosevelt.

Next Section: Summary
Return
to The Great Depression Homepage

Sources:

T.H. Watkins, The Great
Depression: America in the 1930s (New York: Little, Brown and Company,
1993)

Kevin Phillips, Boiling Point (New York: HarperCollins, 1993)
Kevin Phillips, The Politics of Rich and Poor (New York: Random House,
1990)

The 1995 Grolier Encyclopedia (Entries: New Deal, Depression of
the 30s, Roosevelt, Coolidge.)

The Encyclopedia Brittanica Online
(Entries: New Deal, Great Depression.)

Donald Barlett and James
Steele, America: What Went Wrong? (Kansas City: Andrews and McMeel,
1992)

Donald Barlett and James Steele, America: Who Really Pays the
Taxes? (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1994)

James MacGregor Fox,
Roosevelt: The Lion and the Fox (New York: Konecky and Konecky, 1956)
Elaine Schwartz, Econ 101½ (New York: Avon Books, 1995)

Peter Pugh
and Chris Garratt, Introducing Keynes (Cambridge, England: Icon Books,
Ltd., 1993)

Paul Krugman, Peddling Prosperity (New York: W.W. Norton
and Company, 1994)

Online sources:

History lecture notes:
http://www.marshall.edu/history/mccarthy/hst331/lecture/greatdep.1
Gary H. Stern (President, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis),
"Achieving Economic Stability: Lessons From the Crash of 1929," 1987
Annual Report Essay, http://woodrow.mpls.frb.fed.us/pubs/ar/ar1987.html
Office of Management and Budget, Budget of the United States
Government, Fiscal Year 1997, Historical Tables 1.2 and 10.1,
http://www.doc.gov/BudgetFY97/histtoc.html

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 8, 7:44 pm, clairbear <clairb...@msn.com> wrote:
> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote innews:joccsn$rqb$1...@dont-email.me:

>
>
>
>
>
> > "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
> >news:j6adndnbju6zLzTS...@giganews.com...
> >> On 05/08/2012 05:30 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>

> >>> "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

have fun explaining away the facts that under the high taxation and
regulation from 1933-1981, we had humming factories, and rising
standard of living. then from 1981 till today, taxes are low, and
falling on the wealthy, and regulations are being wiped away, yet the
economy is in depression, and jobs are moving off shore.
just to give you some sort of idea how well the new deal worked, we
had no depressions from 1933, till recently. before the new deal to
the founding of this nation, we had depressions around every ten years
or so. one depression lasted almost 3 decades.

[emoneyjoe]

On Tue, 8 May 2012 18:30:21 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote:

>"Werner" <whet...@mac.com> wrote in message
>news:33304927.265.1336501387394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbh3...
>> FDR relied on WW2 to I prove production and lower unemployment. Look for
>> something similar when civil unrest builds.
>
>Right.
>
>First FDR drafted all the unemployed men into the military
>There he provided them with socialistic benefits.
>Free food
>Free clothing
>Free shelter
>Free medical care
>Free training.
>
>They were no longer unemployed!
>
>Next FDR had factories built which employed women and 4Fs.
>
>They produced goods, weapons, explosives, tanks, ship, etc.
>
>This stuff didn't have to be sold.
>
>They put on ships and sent it to Europe and the Far East.
>
>Some got sunk by German submarines, some got blown up in battle.
>
>How did we pay for it?
>
>We raised taxes and borrowed every nickel of the money needed.
>
>America prospered!

WOW, the number one socialist here comes
right out and displays his Marxist thoughts and
his ignorance.

If you call 15 million men being away from
families for 3 or 4 years "prospering".

If you call everything being rationed,
and everybody saving grease drippings
and tin foil "prospering".

>America's standard of living actually improved during WWII.

Spin it all you want, it won't fly.

>So how do we apply the lesson learned during WWII?
>
>1. Do all the things that FDR did.
>2. Hire the Germans and the Japanese to destroy what we produced.
>
>(I intend this to be a humorous attack on austerity)
>(Austerity does the opposite of what FDR did. Austerity CREATES
>unemployment)

No, it is a silly attempt to rationalize leftist
Marxist thinking.


The left is delusional thinking taxes and
borrowing and government spending is good,

and the right is delusional thinking jobs
can be created without products in demand.


The future would be brighter if somebody
would wake up to reality, the scope of the
deficit spending is so great it would take
an immediate creation of an extra $7 Trillion
to provide the tax revenue needed to balance
the budget.

And there are idiots who talk about
"paying down the debt".

[emoneyjoe]

What increased activity?

>The debt, as it did after WWII, will shrink by comparison.
>Meanwhile, Americans lives will be improved instead of being made miserable
>by austerity.

Homeless even when working.

>The very austerity that could bring on social unrest and violence in the
>streets.
>Evidence of latent street unrest is already showing up in austerity driven
>nations
>
>
># blowing up the stuff and sinking the ships is not essential to the plan.
>It's better that we make consumer goods and give it away to our people

And the devil to pay.

Keep paying the bankers and big money interest,
while people sleep in their cars because they can't
earn enough to pay rent.

[emoneyjoe]

Marx is reborn!

>We do not have the WILL to do these things.

Maybe "we" like to work and earn a living.

>We have greedy Americans who think that they lose something when we give
>stuff away.
>They identify themselves as Tea Party or Republican

At least they know what government gives away,
government takes from somebody.

If everybody thought like you, there would
be nothing to take away and nobody to take
it away from.

Borrowing with at least some mucked up
idea of when and how it can be paid back
is the same as stealing.


If government wants to give stuff away,
let them at least create interest free emoney
that never has to be paid back.

[emoneyjoe]

Yeah, $37.

[jim]

BeamMeUpScotty wrote:

>
> My question is; What increased economic activity? Once you borrow that
> money someone (taxpayers) will have to pay it back and that burden will
> slow the recovery and investment in the future.

The federal debt has grown larger for over 200 years but now
you assure us it will start to grow smaller. And you quote the
mad hatter as your evidence that this will happen.

And what of all the private sector debt? Will all the
private sector debt be paid back too?

you are aware that the total private and public
is $54 trillion and the cash and currency available to settle
all these accounts in the dollar economy is only $1 trillion.
What type of magic are you expecting to be conjured up
to make all this repayment of debt possible?


but of course you have no interest in letting
a little reality get in the way of
your Alice in Wonderland fantasy.

>
> > The very austerity that could bring on social unrest and violence in the
> > streets.
>
> What will total and unlimited collapse bring?

Many businesses and individual will go bankrupt and
most of the workers will lose their jobs and asset prices
will fall back to 1960 levels.

and
needless to say US voters won't be happy.

>
> You want to ignore the ability to make choices and take the pain in
> carefully proportioned steps and NOT have it all collapse at once.

Do you mean careful proportioned steps like the global
financial markets took
in late 2008?

[David Hartung]

The GIs of WWII got none of the above "free". They earned them, often
paying with their blood and lives.

[David Hartung]

TANSTAAFL!

[Sid9]

"David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message

news:JvSdna4sk_cwwTfS...@giganews.com...

So, you wormed your way out of my Bozo Bin!

It all worked quite well before, during, and after WWII.
It only started to fail when the senile Republican, now sanctified, St
Reagan started dismantling New Deal financial reforms.
Then it was topped off by the most incompetent president the United States
had ever seen, son of a rich man, provincial, ignorant, Republican bush,jr.

Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!

[clairbear]

"Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in news:jocibl$bfg$1...@dont-email.me:

>
> "clairbear" <clai...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:XnsA04DD9D9A...@216.196.97.142...

>> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in news:jocghq$6m5$1@dont-

Yeah run and hide like the senile pussy you are
YOU CN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH

[clairbear]

emoneyjoe <emon...@iglou.com> wrote in
news:7o2kq7d6n2k548or0...@4ax.com:

Liberals live in denial of those facts that the welfare state does not
work Look at the failure os Soviet Russia Government took all the wealth
and the worker got lazy and did poor quality work it took forever just
to get the basic in the their society

[clairbear]

emoneyjoe <emon...@iglou.com> wrote in
news:tl3kq7ln2jogjs1fm...@4ax.com:

Don't confront poor old senile sidney with to many facts or he will run
and hide like a child who's been scolded by his mommy

[clairbear]

"Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in news:jodrbn$5v7$1...@dont-email.me:

The new deal did not work WWII and it's aftermath was what put an end to
the depression But you can't handle facts so you run and hide lie the
true cua nad run liberal you are.

> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!
>

What the matter por wittle sidney can't stand when someone call you aon
your liberal lieing way So you have to bring out all the Lieberal
Libels

[David Hartung]

Only occasionally.

> It all worked quite well before, during, and after WWII.
> It only started to fail when the senile Republican, now sanctified, St
> Reagan started dismantling New Deal financial reforms.
> Then it was topped off by the most incompetent president the United
> States had ever seen, son of a rich man, provincial, ignorant,
> Republican bush,jr.
>
> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!

No matter how you spin it, there truly is no such thing as a free lunch.
All of your desired programs and services must be paid for by someone.
That is a hard fact which France and Greece are about to learn in the
hard way.

"Austerity" does not create jobs, and to my knowledge no has trued to
claim otherwise. The reason that "austerity" is necessary is because we
have spent and borrowed ourselves into this huge fiscal hole. Our gross
public debt is now over 100% of GDP, annual interest on the debt is
running around a half trillion dollars(a full 10% of tax revenue). This
situation cannot continue without ultimately destroying our nation.

This is only a part of the picture. Total US debt(public, private and
consumer) is running over 360% of GDP, which is worse than in the
darkest days of the 1930s depression.

This must change, and more spending is not the answer. The time is very
quickly coming when the piper will demand payment, and right now, we do
not have the means to pay him.

[clairbear]

Nickname unavailable <Vid...@tcq.net> wrote in
news:22450bf2-8bad-4c32...@t2g2000pbl.googlegroups.com:

That just stupid liberal BS someone has to pay for products. Someone has
to make them. Someone has to pay the owrker. THERE IS NO FREE LUCH

[Barry Bruyea]

On Tue, 08 May 2012 19:44:10 -0500, clairbear <clai...@msn.com>
wrote:

>"Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in news:joccsn$rqb$1...@dont-email.me:

>
>>
>> "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
>> news:j6adndnbju6zLzTS...@giganews.com...
>>> On 05/08/2012 05:30 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>>>>

>>>> "Werner" <whet...@mac.com> wrote in message

>>> 105% of GDP.

>> .
>> .
>> The increased economic activity will pay back the borrowed money.
>> The debt, as it did after WWII, will shrink by comparison.
>> Meanwhile, Americans lives will be improved instead of being made

>> miserable by austerity.
>WE manufactured the war goods and those factories then change to
>consumer good to satisfy pent up demands due to years of privation
>during the war. We do not, thanks to the acceleration of out sourcing
>that really took off under Clinton and continued under Bush, have the
>manufacturing infrastructure that we had at the end of WWII That's all
>been shipped to Asia and other parts of the less affluent parts of the
>world. There are at least 5 factories sitting empty in my hometown Emty
>of product Empty of tool Empty of jobs We do not have the entrepenuers
>do to the tax the rich mentality and years of complacencyby government,
>the American business community, and our government teat dependent
>people

>> The very austerity that could bring on social unrest and violence in
>> the streets.
>> Evidence of latent street unrest is already showing up in austerity

>> driven nations
>Auserrity or privations of war the "greatest Generation" dealt with led
>to that pent up deamd for all sorts of consumer goods They knew how to
>make sacrifices for a better future. WE are all just a bunch of spoiled
>kids by comparison
>>

>> # blowing up the stuff and sinking the ships is not essential to the

>> plan. It's better that we make consumer goods and give it away to our
>> people


One of the main problems in post war American was that the factories
needed to produce were old an inefficient and demand being what it
was, there was no great incentive to update or rebuild, whereas in the
war torn countries of Europe (and Japan) new industrial plant was
being built (a lot of it under the U.S. financed Marshall Plan) at a
rapid pace and combine that with cheaper labour, all of which started
the long decline in manufacturing in the U.S. and Canada.
>>
>>

[Slackfest]

On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>
> Sid9 pointed out the obvious, as it escaped laughing at:

>>
>> David Hartung <yankee...@lie.con> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 05/08/2012 08:44 PM, Sid9 wrote:

-->

>>> TANSTAAFL!
>>
>> So, you wormed your way out of my Bozo Bin!
>>
>> It all worked quite well before, during, and after WWII.
>> It only started to fail when the senile Republican, now sanctified, St
>> Reagan started dismantling New Deal financial reforms.
>> Then it was topped off by the most incompetent president the United
>> States had ever seen, son of a rich man, provincial, ignorant,
>> Republican bush,jr.
>
> The new deal did not work

Yes, it did, else you wouldn't be here today..

> WWII and it's aftermath was what put an end to the depression

No, not entirely..

> But you can't handle facts so you run and hide lie the
> true cua nad run liberal you are.

Ahhh, the 'ignoratti' raises it's ugly little head again..

>> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!
>
> What the matter por wittle sidney can't stand when someone call you aon
> your liberal lieing way So you have to bring out all the Lieberal
> Libels

I see that you're regurgitating your frightie-rightie pabulum today..

--Speaking of who can't stand having their lies exposed..

[clairbear]

Barry Bruyea <justfo...@still.com> wrote in
news:0utkq7tudcu7397n6...@4ax.com:

Short sightness is always a problem in any industrial society, whether
it be failing to plan for future upgrades, faileure to see where the
market is going, or failure to see the impacts of the technology. But
the strength of American manufacture in the post war years and the pent
up demand for products fuled one of the greatest expansions of a
consumer society in world history. But like most bubble that one has now
been burst by the failure of industry, the government and our society by
the failure to plan for the future. The US is no longer the
manufacturing giant we are a service economy, Service do not create the
wealth manufacturing does

[BeamMeUpScotty]

>>>> FDR relied on WW2 to I prove production and lower unemployment. Look for
>>>> something similar when civil unrest builds.
>>
>>> Right.
>>
>>> First FDR drafted all the unemployed men into the military
>>> There he provided them with socialistic benefits.
>>> Free food
>>> Free clothing
>>> Free shelter
>>> Free medical care
>>> Free training.
>>
>>> They were no longer unemployed!
>>
>>> Next FDR had factories built which employed women and 4Fs.
>>
>>> They produced goods, weapons, explosives, tanks, ship, etc.

Much of which was "SOLD" to the UK and Russia for GOLD.

>>> This stuff didn't have to be sold.

Some of it was SOLD as Military surplus to the public.

After a war we usually sell the parts and weapons to our allies and call
it military aid.

>>> They put on ships and sent it to Europe and the Far East.

For a price.... a promise..... and Gold....

>>> Some got sunk by German submarines, some got blown up in battle.

And you forget that the people here at home had RATION coupons and were
forced into "Austerity"

*OH NO* there was austerity and people had to get rations for meat and
gas and rubber and it was those people that would buy war bonds rather
than pay some tax to pay for some lazy ass politician sitting on the
couch drinking SODA and eating free government candy.

>>> How did we pay for it?

People voluntarily worked for a good cause that they could believe in
and "they could see an end to the support" of those that needed them to
pay-in and buy bonds and do-without. It wasn't elites using taxes and
taking your money for their comfort projects and waste.

There was support for the cause but today there is no support for
REDISTRIBUTION for the sake of giving away money to people that decided
NOT to save or work or be productive.

>>> We raised taxes and borrowed every nickel of the money needed.

Sold Bonds and collected scrap items and rationed..... we didn't use
the IRS to confiscate everyone's property for the purpose of penalizing
their success. War time is a different animal from peace time. And
limited short term efforts for a common cause is NOTHING like PARTISAN
Socialist power grabs to control your life and your children's life
permanently.


>>> America prospered!

NOT really, until after the war. After the war, all the men came home
to NO JOBS. But there were new possibilities and Europe needed a
total rebuild yet America had NO real damage but Perl harbor.

>>> America's standard of living actually improved during WWII.

HITLER's DID THAT TOO for a while.

>>> So how do we apply the lesson learned during WWII?

How do we apply the constitution to what you learned? How do we
restart freedom after government taking powers and people forced into
austerity for several years, not like the decades that Obama and
Socialists will force us into with their never ending debt and spending.

[clairbear]

Slackfest <baron.v...@gmail.com> wrote in news:jodusi$ro7$1@dont-
email.me:

> On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>>
>> Sid9 pointed out the obvious, as it escaped laughing at:
>>>
>>> David Hartung <yankee...@lie.con> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 05/08/2012 08:44 PM, Sid9 wrote:
> -->
>>>> TANSTAAFL!
>>>
>>> So, you wormed your way out of my Bozo Bin!
>>>
>>> It all worked quite well before, during, and after WWII.
>>> It only started to fail when the senile Republican, now sanctified, St
>>> Reagan started dismantling New Deal financial reforms.
>>> Then it was topped off by the most incompetent president the United
>>> States had ever seen, son of a rich man, provincial, ignorant,
>>> Republican bush,jr.
>>
>> The new deal did not work
>
> Yes, it did, else you wouldn't be here today..

All it did was expand the government The built dams and park largely on the
back of tax payer

>> WWII and it's aftermath was what put an end to the depression
>
> No, not entirely..

Consumer products like cars, refridgerator and other large items were not
produced do to the need for war manufacturing. There was little to spend
money on during the war and the pent up demand for consumer good drove the
biggest recovery in history

>> But you can't handle facts so you run and hide lie the

>> true cut nad run liberal you are.

>
> Ahhh, the 'ignoratti' raises it's ugly little head again..

I am not the one who in the face of undeniable facts chose to run and hide
like senile old sid

>>> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!
>>
>> What the matter por wittle sidney can't stand when someone call you aon
>> your liberal lieing way So you have to bring out all the Lieberal
>> Libels
>
> I see that you're regurgitating your frightie-rightie pabulum today..
>
> --Speaking of who can't stand having their lies exposed..
>
>

Oh wow you must be a hit in your local school yard with you Iknow youare
but what am I retort.

[Slackfest]

On 5/9/2012 9:43 AM, clairbear was bleating again:
>
> Slackfest was amused by the artificial histrionics exhibited by:

>>
>> On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>>>
>>> Sid9 pointed out the obvious, as it escaped laughing at:
>>>>
>>>> David Hartung<yankee...@lie.con> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 05/08/2012 08:44 PM, Sid9 wrote:

---->

>>>>> TANSTAAFL!
>>>>
>>>> So, you wormed your way out of my Bozo Bin!
>>>>
>>>> It all worked quite well before, during, and after WWII.
>>>> It only started to fail when the senile Republican, now sanctified, St
>>>> Reagan started dismantling New Deal financial reforms.
>>>> Then it was topped off by the most incompetent president the United
>>>> States had ever seen, son of a rich man, provincial, ignorant,
>>>> Republican bush,jr.
>>>
>>> The new deal did not work
>>
>> Yes, it did, else you wouldn't be here today..
>
> All it did was expand the government The built dams and park largely on the
> back of tax payer

Ahhh, no.. Quite the opposite, history says differently..

>>> WWII and it's aftermath was what put an end to the depression
>>
>> No, not entirely..
>
> Consumer products like cars, refridgerator and other large items were not
> produced do to the need for war manufacturing

You aren't very familiar, past a right-wing political fiction,
with what was produced and manufactured back in that era..

>>> But you can't handle facts so you run and hide lie the
>>> true cut nad run liberal you are.
>>
>> Ahhh, the 'ignoratti' raises it's ugly little head again..
>
> I am not the one who in the face of undeniable facts

Your 'facts' were what I would politely call 'fiction'..

>>>> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!
>>>
>>> What the matter por wittle sidney can't stand when someone call you aon
>>> your liberal lieing way So you have to bring out all the Lieberal
>>> Libels
>>
>> I see that you're regurgitating your frightie-rightie pabulum today..
>>
>> --Speaking of who can't stand having their lies exposed..
>
> Oh wow you must be a hit in your local school yard

I seldom venture over to the university..

--But your sociopathic projections speak volumes about you, dear..

[BeamMeUpScotty]

People who spend their life in PRISON don't know how to live outside in
the real world.....

> Then it was topped off by the most incompetent president the United
> States had ever seen, son of a rich man, provincial, ignorant,
> Republican bush,jr.

Yet you elected the only person in the USA that's a bigger idiot, you
elected Obama.

>
> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!

Your Omnipotence and obvious racism is just as ugly and distasteful as
always.



--
*He has the most who is most content with the least* -Diogenes-

[clairbear]

Slackfest <baron.v...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:joe2ja$j4t$1...@dont-email.me:

> On 5/9/2012 9:43 AM, clairbear was bleating again:
>>
>> Slackfest was amused by the artificial histrionics exhibited by:
>>>
>>> On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>>>>
>>>> Sid9 pointed out the obvious, as it escaped laughing at:
>>>>>
>>>>> David Hartung<yankee...@lie.con> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/08/2012 08:44 PM, Sid9 wrote:
> ---->
>>>>>> TANSTAAFL!
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you wormed your way out of my Bozo Bin!
>>>>>
>>>>> It all worked quite well before, during, and after WWII.
>>>>> It only started to fail when the senile Republican, now
>>>>> sanctified, St Reagan started dismantling New Deal financial
>>>>> reforms. Then it was topped off by the most incompetent president
>>>>> the United States had ever seen, son of a rich man, provincial,
>>>>> ignorant, Republican bush,jr.
>>>>
>>>> The new deal did not work
>>>
>>> Yes, it did, else you wouldn't be here today..
>>
>> All it did was expand the government The built dams and park largely
>> on the back of tax payer
>
> Ahhh, no.. Quite the opposite, history says differently..

Redacted liberal psuedo history books might spread that lie but then why
confuse you any further by with truth as slackers seldom bother to put
in the real work need to understand what the fact are

>>>> WWII and it's aftermath was what put an end to the depression
>>>
>>> No, not entirely..
>>
>> Consumer products like cars, refridgerator and other large items were
>> not produced do to the need for war manufacturing
>
> You aren't very familiar, past a right-wing political fiction,
> with what was produced and manufactured back in that era..

So what you are saying is that history books, news film, documentaries
and magazine produced in the forties and fifties are part of a vast
right wing conspiracy And that people I know who lived lived through the
depression, the war and the postwar era are all part of that conspiracy.
You have'nt a clue as to what is true and what is not. The left wing
misinformation machine has really messed with your mind. I do no
profess to know everything but but I do know how US history is being
rewritten every day by the Orwellian left wing thought police.

>>>> But you can't handle facts so you run and hide lie the
>>>> true cut nad run liberal you are.
>>>
>>> Ahhh, the 'ignoratti' raises it's ugly little head again..
>>
>> I am not the one who in the face of undeniable facts
>
> Your 'facts' were what I would politely call 'fiction'.
>

>>>>> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!
>>>>
>>>> What the matter por wittle sidney can't stand when someone call you
>>>> aon your liberal lieing way So you have to bring out all the
>>>> Lieberal Libels
>>>
>>> I see that you're regurgitating your frightie-rightie pabulum
>>> today..
>>>
>>> --Speaking of who can't stand having their lies exposed..
>>
>> Oh wow you must be a hit in your local school yard
>
> I seldom venture over to the university..

It shows in you obvious lack of intellect

> --But your sociopathic projections speak volumes about you, dear..
>

YOU DO NOT KNOW ME AND DON"T PRESUME YOU DO

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 8, 8:45 pm, clairbear <clairb...@msn.com> wrote:
> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote innews:joch94$8gt$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "clairbear" <clairb...@msn.com> wrote in message

> >news:XnsA04DD2EE0...@216.196.97.142...
> >> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in
> >>news:joccsn$rqb$1...@dont-email.me:
>
> >>> "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:j6adndnbju6zLzTS...@giganews.com...
> >>>> On 05/08/2012 05:30 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>

> >>>>> "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

> THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH
> Everything has to be created, made or earned by someone> The only thing lacking in 2012 is the motivation.
>


its why keynes knew it takes money, to make money. you cannot
strangle yourself into health.


> The thing that is lacking Is the manufacturing base

>
> > We have the food, the clothing, the shelter, we can provide the
> > medical care, we can provide training.
>

> WE NEED the infrastructure to  build  and employ That's all been
> exported> We do not have the WILL to do these things.
>


you just endorsed keyens, yet you are to stupid to know it.


> So if you think the American will no longer exists YOU are free to move
> where ever yoiu think it's go  Try India or China> We have greedy Americans who think that they lose something when we
> > give stuff away.
>



michelle bachman tea party darling, just became a swiss citizen. so
much for the vaunted patriotic conservatives:)))


> Like the greed of those on the government teat> They identify themselves as Tea Party or Republican
>
> That a lie as many rish people are liberal just look at Buffet, the
> Hollyweird elite, most of the music community anf the Obama donors
>  BTW posting the same liberal misthruths over and over does not make
> them any less false

you just endorsed keynes in this thread. your problem is that you are
a typical low information, low functioning type, that is fodder for
conservative extremists. you are simply outraged at the results of
your own policies, then you blame liberals.

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 8, 8:46 pm, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "clairbear" <clairb...@msn.com> wrote in message
>

> news:XnsA04DD9D9A...@216.196.97.142...
>
>
>
> > "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote innews:jocghq$6m5$1...@dont-email.me:

>
> >> "clairbear" <clairb...@msn.com> wrote in message

> >>news:XnsA04DD0CE1...@216.196.97.142...

> >>> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in

> >>>news:joc6pu$38o$1...@dont-email.me:

>
> >>>> "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:33304927.265.1336501387394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-
> > forums@vbbh3.
> >>>> ..
> >>>>> FDR relied on WW2 to I prove production and lower unemployment.
> >>>>> Look for something similar when civil unrest builds.
>
> >>>> Right.
>
> >>>> First FDR drafted all the unemployed men into the military
> >>>> There he provided them with socialistic benefits.
> >>>> Free food
> >>>> Free clothing
> >>>> Free shelter
> >>>> Free medical care
> >>>> Free training.
>
> >>>> They were no longer unemployed!

> >>> OIf they were no longer unemployed the were actually working fo the
> >>> above mentioned benefit there for they were not FREE

> >>>> Next FDR had factories built which employed women and 4Fs.
>
> >>>> They produced goods, weapons, explosives, tanks, ship, etc.
>
> >>>> This stuff didn't have to be sold.
>
> >>>> They put on ships and sent it to Europe and the Far East.
>
> >>>> Some got sunk by German submarines, some got blown up in battle.
>
> >>>> How did we pay for it?

> >>> By raising the national debt to levels that would not have been
> >>> substainable at that time were it not for WWII

> >>>> We raised taxes and borrowed every nickel of the money needed.
>
> >>>> America prospered!

> >>> No it was not real proserity it was a psuedo-socialist solution to a
> >>> problem

> >>>> America's standard of living actually improved during WWII.

> >>> There was rationing of nearly everything that is not a equivilent to
> >>> a higher standard of living

> >>>> So how do we apply the lesson learned during WWII?
>
> >>>> 1. Do all the things that FDR did.
> >>>> 2. Hire the Germans and the Japanese to destroy what we produced.

> >>> It was a war  involving the entire world against militarist agressive
> >>> regimes
> >>> Do you really want that kind of destruction again

> >>>> (I intend this to be a humorous attack on austerity)
> >>>> (Austerity does the opposite of what FDR did. Austerity CREATES
> >>>> unemployment)
>

> >>> The employment you talk about is  way of creating massive national
> >>> debt It was actually the after math of the war and the pent up demand
> >>> from years
> >>> of, as you put, austerity and privations of war that finally ended
> >>> the depression
>
> >> .
> >> .
> >> .
> >> I knew this was beyond you.
> >> This was a lesson in Keynesian economics.
>
> > REALITY IF BEYOND YOUR SENILE OLD MIND
> > Keynes was wrong
>

> Tell to the Greeks and the Brits.
> Tell it to our unemployed.
>
> I gave an example above.
> You have so closed a "mind" you cannot comprehend what I wrote.

he just endorsed keynes, yet he is to stupid to know it.

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 8, 11:36 pm, emoneyjoe <emoney...@iglou.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 May 2012 18:30:21 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote:

> >"Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

its amazing how stupid conservatives are. marx was a conservative. he
advocated for the destruction of government, and was a avowed free
trader. OBTW, the debt is going down relative to the size of our
economy:)))))))

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 9, 8:52 am, clairbear <IknowSidsAcow...@msn.com> wrote:
> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote innews:jodrbn$5v7$1...@dont-email.me:

>
>
>
>
>
> > "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
> >news:JvSdna4sk_cwwTfS...@giganews.com...
> >> On 05/08/2012 08:44 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>
> >>> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:joch94$8gt$1...@dont-email.me...
>

> >>>> "clairbear" <clairb...@msn.com> wrote in message

> >>>>news:XnsA04DD2EE0...@216.196.97.142...
> >>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in
> >>>>>news:joccsn$rqb$1...@dont-email.me:
>
> >>>>>> "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:j6adndnbju6zLzTS...@giganews.com...
> >>>>>>> On 05/08/2012 05:30 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>

> >>>>>>>> "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

ROTFLOL!!!!!!!! have fun explaining away the facts that we had no
depressions from 1933-1981. yet before the new deal, we had one about
every ten years, one even lasted almost three decades.
since 1981, every recession has been deeper, unemployment is creeping
up, and standards of living are going down. and we know face a
depression, all under your watch:))))))))))))

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 9, 8:40 am, clairbear <clairb...@msn.com> wrote:
> emoneyjoe <emoney...@iglou.com> wrote innews:7o2kq7d6n2k548or0...@4ax.com:

>
>
>
> > On Tue, 8 May 2012 21:29:06 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote:
>

> >>"clairbear" <clairb...@msn.com> wrote in message

> >>news:XnsA04DD2EE0...@216.196.97.142...
> >>> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in
> >>>news:joccsn$rqb$1...@dont-email.me:
>
> >>>> "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:j6adndnbju6zLzTS...@giganews.com...
> >>>>> On 05/08/2012 05:30 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>

> >>>>>> "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

i see little difference between a free market economy(fascism), or a
communist economy(marxism), in either system, almost all wealth and
power ends up in the hands of a few. your low information side is
showing again.

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 9, 8:55 am, clairbear <clairb...@liberalism.IsaJoke> wrote:

this will go WHOOOOOSH way over you pointy little head. show me a
thriving large business, that operates on a pure cash basis. if you
cannot, then you might, and i use the word lightly, because your type
cannot reason, most businesses operate on debt.
its simple capitalism, yet your type simply cannot understand it.
your type are really marxist to your cores. you would destroy
capitalism with austerity, and marx will be smiling in his grave.

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 9, 8:53 am, David Hartung <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote:
> On 05/09/2012 08:27 AM, Sid9 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
> >news:JvSdna4sk_cwwTfS...@giganews.com...
> >> On 05/08/2012 08:44 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>
> >>> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:joch94$8gt$1...@dont-email.me...
>

> >>>> "clairbear" <clairb...@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:XnsA04DD2EE0...@216.196.97.142...
> >>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote innews:joccsn$rqb$1...@dont-email.me:

>
> >>>>>> "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:j6adndnbju6zLzTS...@giganews.com...
> >>>>>>> On 05/08/2012 05:30 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>

> >>>>>>>> "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

actually france and greece are the results of conservative economics.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,676634,00.html

02/08/2010

Greek Debt Crisis
How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece to Mask its True Debt
By Beat Balzli

dpa
Greek Finance Minister George Papaconstantinou speaking at a
conference in January.
Goldman Sachs helped the Greek government to mask the true extent of
its deficit with the help of a derivatives deal that legally
circumvented the EU Maastricht deficit rules. At some point the so-
called cross currency swaps will mature, and swell the country's
already bloated deficit.
Greeks aren't very welcome in the Rue Alphones Weicker in Luxembourg.
It's home to Eurostat, the European Union's statistical office. The
number crunchers there are deeply annoyed with Athens. Investigative
reports state that important data "cannot be confirmed" or has been
requested but "not received."


Creative accounting took priority when it came to totting up
government debt.Since 1999, the Maastricht rules threaten to slap
hefty fines on euro member countries that exceed the budget deficit
limit of three percent of gross domestic product. Total government
debt mustn't exceed 60 percent.

The Greeks have never managed to stick to the 60 percent debt limit,
and they only adhered to the three percent deficit ceiling with the
help of blatant balance sheet cosmetics. One time, gigantic military
expenditures were left out, and another time billions in hospital
debt. After recalculating the figures, the experts at Eurostat
consistently came up with the same results: In truth, the deficit each
year has been far greater than the three percent limit. In 2009, it
exploded to over 12 percent.
Now, though, it looks like the Greek figure jugglers have been even
more brazen than was previously thought. "Around 2002 in particular,
various investment banks offered complex financial products with which
governments could push part of their liabilities into the future," one
insider recalled, adding that Mediterranean countries had snapped up
such products.
Greece's debt managers agreed a huge deal with the savvy bankers of US
investment bank Goldman Sachs at the start of 2002. The deal involved
so-called cross-currency swaps in which government debt issued in
dollars and yen was swapped for euro debt for a certain period -- to
be exchanged back into the original currencies at a later date.
Fictional Exchange Rates
Such transactions are part of normal government refinancing. Europe's
governments obtain funds from investors around the world by issuing
bonds in yen, dollar or Swiss francs. But they need euros to pay their
daily bills. Years later the bonds are repaid in the original foreign
denominations.
But in the Greek case the US bankers devised a special kind of swap
with fictional exchange rates. That enabled Greece to receive a far
higher sum than the actual euro market value of 10 billion dollars or
yen. In that way Goldman Sachs secretly arranged additional credit of
up to $1 billion for the Greeks.
This credit disguised as a swap didn't show up in the Greek debt
statistics. Eurostat's reporting rules don't comprehensively record
transactions involving financial derivatives. "The Maastricht rules
can be circumvented quite legally through swaps," says a German
derivatives dealer.


In previous years, Italy used a similar trick to mask its true debt
with the help of a different US bank. In 2002 the Greek deficit
amounted to 1.2 percent of GDP. After Eurostat reviewed the data in
September 2004, the ratio had to be revised up to 3.7 percent.
According to today's records, it stands at 5.2 percent.

At some point Greece will have to pay up for its swap transactions,
and that will impact its deficit. The bond maturities range between 10
and 15 years. Goldman Sachs charged a hefty commission for the deal
and sold the swaps on to a Greek bank in 2005.
The bank declined to comment on the controversial deal. The Greek
Finance Ministry did not respond to a written request for comment.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/04/29/greece-scandals-idUSLT86754720090429


FACTBOX-Scandals rock Greece's conservative government



April 29 | Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:42am EDT
(Reuters) - Greek lawmakers on Wednesday issued an inconclusive
finding in a bribe scandal that could force Prime Minister Costas
Karamanlis to call an early election as Greece struggles to cope with
the global financial crisis. [ID:nLT959469].
During its five years in power, the government has been shaken by
scandals ranging from controversial land swaps between the state and a
wealthy monastery to suspect government bond sales to state-run
pension funds.
Here are the main scandals that have rocked the government:

* FERRY CONTRACTS - April 2009:
Greek lawmakers decided to launch an investigation into a former
minister's involvement in a shipping scandal after prosecutors passed
the case to parliament. Ruling party deputy Aristotle Pavlides denies
any wrongdoing in the case, brought to light by a shipowner who
testified that the minister's aide demanded bribes to grant a contract
to run subsidised Aegean island ferry routes.

* VATOPEDI SCANDAL - September 2008:
Merchant marine minister George Voulgarakis resigned amid mounting
criticism from within his New Democracy party over property
transactions, including a land swap between the state and the wealthy
Vatopedi monastery where his wife acted as agent. He insisted no laws
were broken but the finance ministry annulled the deal and a judicial
investigation showed deputy ministers were involved in the land swap
which media said cost taxpayers over 100 million euros ($131.9
million).
Parliament set up an investigating committee in October. The same day,
one of the prime minister's closest aides, Minister of State Theodore
Roussopoulos, resigned over his suspected role in the land deals. In
December, the parliamentary investigation failed to reach an agreement
on who was responsible for the scandal and took no further steps.

* SEX, LIES AND DVDs - February 2008:
Former Culture Ministry General Secretary Christos Zahopoulos resigned
and jumped from his fifth-floor balcony after a DVD showing him having
sex with his female assistant was taken to the office of Prime
Minister Costas Karamanlis. What media dubbed the "sex, lies and DVDs"
scandal shook Greek society and cut the government majority to one
deputy after the temporary resignation of an MP. Zahopoulos survived
the fall.
* SIEMENS - May 2008:
Greece is investigating whether German engineering group Siemens
(SIEGn.DE) bribed companies and officials to win deals including the
security contract for the 2004 Olympics. A prosecutor has filed
charges and an investigating judge has launched an inquiry. A German
court convicted former Siemens executive Reinhard Siekaczek in July
for his role in setting up slush funds used to win contracts. Siemens
itself gave a tally of at least 1.3 billion euros in suspect payments
booked as fees [ID:nL8682844].

*INDIAN WORKERS - December 2007:
Labour Minister Vassilis Magginas resigned after the Greek press said
he employed an uninsured Indian family at his country home. The
scandal came at a time of unpopular pension reforms fiercely opposed
by labour unions. He denied any wrongdoing, saying the Indians were
his guests.

* BONDS - March 2007:
A 280-million euro, 12-year structured government bond with a 6.25
percent coupon, issued in February 2007 by the Finance Ministry and
underwritten by JP Morgan (JPM.N), passed through several brokers
before ending up with state pension funds at inflated prices. Labour
Minister Savvas Tsitourides was sacked and the deal reversed.
Prosecutors have announced hundreds of charges from fraud to money
laundering, but have not named any individuals. The investigation goes
on.

* WIRE-TAPPING - February 2006:
In March 2006, the government revealed that more than 100 people,
including Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis, had their mobile phones
tapped around the time of the Athens 2004 Olympics. A two-year
judicial investigation into the so-called "Greek Watergate" was
dropped in January when prosecutors said they were unable to find
evidence leading to the culprits. (Reporting by Renee Maltezou;
Editing by Mark Trevelyan)


france has not had a socialist government in about 19 years now.

> "Austerity" does not create jobs, and to my knowledge no has trued to
> claim otherwise. The reason that "austerity" is necessary is because we
> have spent and borrowed ourselves into this huge fiscal hole. Our gross
> public debt is now over 100% of GDP, annual interest on the debt is
> running around a half trillion dollars(a full 10% of tax revenue). This
> situation cannot continue without ultimately destroying our nation.
>

austerity is anti-capitalism, it destroys wages(demand), it destroys
profits(capital), and it fails every time, and every where its been
tried.

> This is only a part of the picture. Total US debt(public, private and
> consumer) is running over 360% of GDP, which is worse than in the
> darkest days of the 1930s depression.
>

actually its the private debt that is the problem. public debt is
rather mild, and shrinking:))))))

> This must change, and more spending is not the answer. The time is very
> quickly coming when the piper will demand payment, and right now, we do
> not have the means to pay him.

it takes money to make money, its called capitalism. its why all of
you wall street socialist types, always fail.

[BeamMeUpScotty]

On 5/9/2012 12:20 AM, Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On May 8, 7:31 pm, clairbear <clairb...@msn.com> wrote:
>> "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote innews:joc6pu$38o$1...@dont-email.me:

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>> news:33304927.265.1336501387394.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbh3...
>>>> FDR relied on WW2 to I prove production and lower unemployment. Look
>>>> for something similar when civil unrest builds.
>>
>>> Right.
>>
>>> First FDR drafted all the unemployed men into the military
>>> There he provided them with socialistic benefits.
>>> Free food
>>> Free clothing
>>> Free shelter
>>> Free medical care
>>> Free training.
>>
>>> They were no longer unemployed!
>>

>> OIf they were no longer unemployed the were actually working fo the above

>> mentioned benefit there for they were not FREE> Next FDR had factories built which employed women and 4Fs.

>>
>>> They produced goods, weapons, explosives, tanks, ship, etc.
>>
>>> This stuff didn't have to be sold.
>>
>>> They put on ships and sent it to Europe and the Far East.
>>
>>> Some got sunk by German submarines, some got blown up in battle.
>>
>>> How did we pay for it?
>>

>> By raising the national debt to levels that would not have been

>> substainable at that time were it not for WWII> We raised taxes and borrowed every nickel of the money needed.
>>
>>> America prospered!
>>

>> No it was not real proserity it was a psuedo-socialist solution to a

>> problem> America's standard of living actually improved during WWII.

>>
>> There was rationing of nearly everything that is not a equivilent to a

>> higher standard of living> So how do we apply the lesson learned during WWII?

>>
>>> 1. Do all the things that FDR did.
>>> 2. Hire the Germans and the Japanese to destroy what we produced.
>>

>> It was a war involving the entire world against militarist agressive
>> regimes

>> Do you really want that kind of destruction again> (I intend this to be a humorous attack on austerity)

>>> (Austerity does the opposite of what FDR did. Austerity CREATES
>>> unemployment)
>>

>> The employment you talk about is way of creating massive national debt
>> It was actually the after math of the war and the pent up demand from years
>> of, as you put, austerity and privations of war that finally ended the
>> depression
>

> you will notice that by 1939, we were on our way out of the
> depression. that is before the war started in europe. if we spent the
> money on yoyo's or tanks, it was the spending. and that spending was
> easily paid off in the 1950's.


You will NOTICE that the UK and Russia were buying war material in
preparation for war.... as early as 1939. They were buying military
supplies and paying American corporations in Gold since they might be
using worthless paper if Hitler marched into their Nation.


The War in EUROPE was saving us from a longer Depression and we knew it
and didn't jump into the war. FDR was apparently a pretty cold and
heartless person when it came to profiting off of War. Instead it took a
direct attack on the USA in Perl Harbor to nudge us into action and
entering the war that had been so profitable to the USA thus far.


> the pent up demand you quote would not have existed if we fell back
> into depression after the war.

We were untouched by the war for the most part. A definite advantage in
the Market place, with a little retooling, the USA could keep supplying
the world with their needs, we had supply ships and factories that
hadn't been destroyed by war. It's NOT brain surgery.


> we did not fall back into depression
> because of all of the reforms of the new deal.

We had a recovery despite FDR and the NEW DEAL.... that Socialist
garbage was a ball and chain around the neck of this economy, we can
only have mixed feelings and thank God for Hitler's war on Europe that
spurred our ability to make a profit from others misery. It was a sad
moment and we should feel ashamed.


> without those reforms,
> labor would not have healed,

The economy would have healed much faster had there been no "NEW DEAL"

> and finance and the wealthy would not
> have been brought under control,

Finance and those wealthy, saved your ass from HITLER.
Chrysler and others retooled and made Jeeps and Tanks and more....

> we would have immediately fallen back
> into depression.

Check for a fever, you seem to be delusional.... It may be your AIDS is
flaring up again.






--

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit
is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government
cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing
financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's
reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us
domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops
here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today
onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt
problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
*Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006*

[emoneyjoe]

And Russia and it's slave states during the 'union"
had good technology for military aircraft and ICBMs,
which shows that socialism doesn't do much for the
workers.

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 9, 9:34 am, clairbear <clairb...@msn.com> wrote:
> Barry Bruyea <justforlau...@still.com> wrote innews:0utkq7tudcu7397n6...@4ax.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 08 May 2012 19:44:10 -0500, clairbear <clairb...@msn.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>"Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote innews:joccsn$rqb$1...@dont-email.me:

>
> >>> "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:j6adndnbju6zLzTS...@giganews.com...
> >>>> On 05/08/2012 05:30 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>

> >>>>> "Werner" <whetz...@mac.com> wrote in message

and it was because of the new deal. without the new deal, we would
have fallen back into depression. in fact many americans feared just
that. what really happened, was capitalism was freed from the marxist/
fascist hybrid wall street. and money was allowed to flow, labor was
healed and protected, and the marxists and fascists on wall street
were contained.

[emoneyjoe]

On Wed, 09 May 2012 10:31:04 -0500, Slackfest <baron.v...@gmail.com>
wrote:

But I am, I worked in a steel mill, and saw
what was in stores, the last private car built was
1942 models made in 1941.

>>>> But you can't handle facts so you run and hide lie the
>>>> true cut nad run liberal you are.
>>>
>>> Ahhh, the 'ignoratti' raises it's ugly little head again..
>>
>> I am not the one who in the face of undeniable facts
>
>Your 'facts' were what I would politely call 'fiction'..

What is fiction about no cars produced, and
very few things made of materials needed for the
war effort.

>>>>> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!
>>>>
>>>> What the matter por wittle sidney can't stand when someone call you aon
>>>> your liberal lieing way So you have to bring out all the Lieberal
>>>> Libels
>>>
>>> I see that you're regurgitating your frightie-rightie pabulum today..
>>>
>>> --Speaking of who can't stand having their lies exposed..
>>
>> Oh wow you must be a hit in your local school yard
>
>I seldom venture over to the university..
>
>--But your sociopathic projections speak volumes about you, dear..

Liberals call other people liars because they
think everybody does the things they do.

[BeamMeUpScotty]

On 5/9/2012 6:57 AM, jim wrote:
>
>
> BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
>
>>
>> My question is; What increased economic activity? Once you borrow that
>> money someone (taxpayers) will have to pay it back and that burden will
>> slow the recovery and investment in the future.
>
> The federal debt has grown larger for over 200 years but now
> you assure us it will start to grow smaller. And you quote the
> mad hatter as your evidence that this will happen.
>
> And what of all the private sector debt? Will all the
> private sector debt be paid back too?
>
> you are aware that the total private and public
> is $54 trillion and the cash and currency available to settle
> all these accounts in the dollar economy is only $1 trillion.
> What type of magic are you expecting to be conjured up
> to make all this repayment of debt possible?
>
>
> but of course you have no interest in letting
> a little reality get in the way of
> your Alice in Wonderland fantasy.

>
>
>
>
>>
>>> The very austerity that could bring on social unrest and violence in the
>>> streets.
>>

>> What will total and unlimited collapse bring?
>
> Many businesses and individual will go bankrupt and
> most of the workers will lose their jobs and asset prices
> will fall back to 1960 levels.
>
> and
> needless to say US voters won't be happy.
>
>
>>
>> You want to ignore the ability to make choices and take the pain in
>> carefully proportioned steps and NOT have it all collapse at once.
>
> Do you mean careful proportioned steps like the global
> financial markets took in late 2008?

Now that you mention it.... it was Democrat-Socialists that refused to
try to make any proportional fixes to that market collapse, and we've
all seen the Barney Frank types and other Democrats/Socialists on video
telling us that there is NO PROBLEM at Fannie Mae and they are sound
institutions, then within a year or two it had a "TOTAL COLLAPSE" and we
didn't get any chance for any proportioned steps.

The Federal government took it over and taxpayers are now paying
Billions and what may be trillions for that blunder. And NOW the
Democrat-Socialists again want to fight austerity and keep spending
until it all collapses..... GOOD PLAN. idiots ;)

--
*He has the most who is most content with the least* -Diogenes-

[jim]

Let me get this straight.
You say it is
"Capitalist" that expect the govt to step in
and "fix" the markets and
its "Socialists" that just stand aside.

OK that explains a lot.

[Slackfest]

clairbear was whimpering stridently for more attention from:
>
> Slackfest was amused at the sociopathic projections from:

>>
>> On 5/9/2012 9:43 AM, clairbear was bleating again:
>>>
>>> Slackfest was amused by the artificial histrionics exhibited by:
>>>>
>>>> On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sid9 pointed out the obvious, as it escaped laughing at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Hartung<yankee...@lie.con> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 05/08/2012 08:44 PM, Sid9 wrote:

------>

>>>>>>> TANSTAAFL!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, you wormed your way out of my Bozo Bin!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It all worked quite well before, during, and after WWII.
>>>>>> It only started to fail when the senile Republican, now sanctified, St
>>>>>> Reagan started dismantling New Deal financial reforms.
>>>>>> Then it was topped off by the most incompetent president the United
>>>>>> States had ever seen, son of a rich man, provincial, ignorant,
>>>>>> Republican bush,jr.
>>>>>
>>>>> The new deal did not work
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it did, else you wouldn't be here today..
>>>
>>> All it did was expand the government The built dams and park largely on the
>>> back of tax payer
>>
>> Ahhh, no.. Quite the opposite, history says differently..
>
> Redacted liberal psuedo history books might spread that lie

What 'lie' are able to prove about that?

I recall reading about the Civilian Conservation Corps..

Don't you, or were you too busy piling lie upon lie regarding:

> confuse you any further by with truth as slackers seldom
> bother to put in the real work need to understand

Let's see. Because I have a degree in physics, worked in
RF engineering, worked and studied towards teaching
certification and perform in a few bands, I'm somehow
a slacker that 'seldom bother to put in the real
work need to understand'? Your poor command of the
written language says volumes about your ambitious
ignorance, dear..

>>>>> WWII and it's aftermath was what put an end to the depression
>>>>
>>>> No, not entirely..
>>>
>>> Consumer products like cars, refridgerator and other large items were not
>>> produced do to the need for war manufacturing
>>
>> You aren't very familiar, past a right-wing political fiction,
>> with what was produced and manufactured back in that era..
>
> So what you are saying is

Is that you're selectively ignoring the facts that do not
suit your right-wing rhetoric and regurgitated pabulum..

Example follows..

> And that people I know who lived lived through the
> depression, the war and the postwar era are all part

I grew up with people and family from that era, so don't
patronize me with what little you know about it, dear..

> The left wing misinformation machine has really messed with your mind.

*>LOL!<* She said, replete 'talking points' and 'dog whistle'
catch-phrases, poorly spelled nor thought out. You probably
don't realize this, but I've run across folks like you in
person, never realizing for an instant just how self-marginalized
your beliefs and petty sniveling about such make you..

F'instance..

> I do no profess to know everything but but I do know how
> US history is being rewritten every day

Yup, and you're one of the culprits trying to rewrite it,
however poorly your attempts might be seen as. Like I said,
your 'facts' were what I would politely call 'fiction'..

>>>>>> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!
>>>>>
>>>>> What the matter por wittle sidney can't stand when someone call you aon
>>>>> your liberal lieing way So you have to bring out all the Lieberal
>>>>> Libels
>>>>
>>>> I see that you're regurgitating your frightie-rightie pabulum today..
>>>>
>>>> --Speaking of who can't stand having their lies exposed..
>>>
>>> Oh wow you must be a hit in your local school yard
>>
>> I seldom venture over to the university..
>
> It shows in you obvious lack of intellect

*>ROTFLMAO!<* Right.. Sure... *>guffaw!~<*

>> --But your sociopathic projections speak volumes about you, dear..
>
> YOU DO NOT KNOW ME AND DON"T PRESUME YOU DO

Then, don't presume I don't know history and then profess your
inadequate understanding of the subject to be anything more
than a slanted, right-wing knee-jerker repeating the political
pabulum of a failed ideology, dear..

--But, keep on telling on yourself, I wouldn't mind another laugh, dear.

[Slackfest]

enema_joke wrote:

> Conservatives call other people liars because they

> think everybody does the things they do.

I corrected your spelling for you..

--Probably the direct result of an irony deficiency..

[BeamMeUpScotty]

On 5/9/2012 3:11 PM, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:

> On Wed, 09 May 2012 14:22:11 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
> <ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote:
>
>>> Do you mean careful proportioned steps like the global
>>> financial markets took in late 2008?
>>
>> Now that you mention it.... it was Democrat-Socialists that refused to
>> try to make any proportional fixes to that market collapse, and we've
>> all seen the Barney Frank types and other Democrats/Socialists on video
>> telling us that there is NO PROBLEM at Fannie Mae and they are sound
>> institutions,
>

> You missed telling us why the "market collapsed", wingnut.
>
> You didn't mention that 85% of the national debt came from the party
> you support
>
> You skipped over the obstruction, blocking, filibusters of your party
> when trying to fix what they created.
>


Obama had all that stuff figured out and said he had our backs.... I
didn't need to worry about any of it.



> AND---the rape and pillage of Fannie/Freddie was set up (and used by)
> the main supporters of your party---Banks, investment banks,
> Developers, real estate industry, Wall street and wealth class using a
> GOP "path" they caused by deregulation.
>
> You forgot to mention the 9,000,000 jobs lost because of Bush/GOP
> policy
>
> You forgot the TWO (2) lied-into, unfunded wars
>
> You fort to mention the Unfunded Mandates
>
> And the 60,000,000 you caused to loose HC insurance.
>
> MOF---you actually didn't say a whole lot, ScottyLoon


Obama has it all covered... he said so and I've heard him say it.




[“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit
is a sign of leadership failure....."]


]Obama has been there and NOW he is here raising the DEBT LIMIT[





[" It is a sign that the US Government

[BeamMeUpScotty]

On 5/9/2012 3:07 PM, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:

> On Wed, 09 May 2012 09:27:44 -0500, Slackfest
> <baron.v...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>
>

>>> The new deal did not work
>>
>> Yes, it did, else you wouldn't be here today..
>

> Well...yes he probably would have.
>
> Tents, shacks, hovels, his kids working to bring food in, dirty water,
> filthy air, little or no hope of a future----

Sounds pretty much like life under Obama the Socialist...


> Loonytarian/conservative policies have consistently killed us...

Socialists policies killed 100 million last century.... remember Mao and
Pol Pot and Stalin and the other leftist heroes?




> But the Kochs, Romneys, Scaifes would need him to hoe the garden.

And you feel that is bad?

I would rather hoe their garden for life than stand in one welfare line.

Your problem is you hate honest work....

--

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit

is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government

[BeamMeUpScotty]

we'll see if you can....

> You say it is
> "Capitalist" that expect the govt to step in
> and "fix" the markets and

"Capitalists" expect the government created entities and government
Regulations to screw up the markets "yes". Like government interference
always does. The challenge is to then fix what government has screwed
up without creating even larger problems.

> its "Socialists" that just stand aside.

It was Socialists that liked their own interference in the markets and
wouldn't accept any change in their own power. Fannie Mae was a great
little corrupt thiefdom for the Democrat-Socialist types. From their
point of view, they said NOTHING is wrong here, we get to create market
policy and shake down banks and run an AFFORDABLE HOUSING type of BACK
DOOR welfare program to buy votes.... Got to love those Socialists.

> OK that explains a lot.

You have a serious problem, how you even come up with your idea says a
lot to explain that you must be fully indoctrinated to think in a very
low functioning way.


--

[clairbear]

Slackfest <baron.v...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:joee7e$v5e$1...@dont-email.me:

DEAR? what are you another of those fags cursing the net for straight
guys No wonder you are so very confused

[clairbear]

emoneyjoe <emon...@iglou.com> wrote in
news:ja9lq71s44nur5r7o...@4ax.com:

One wonder why liberals are so blind to truthes like that
Are the all just useful idiots of the socialist?

[clairbear]

BeamMeUpScotty <ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote in
news:4FAAF08E...@blackhole.nebulax.com:

> On 5/9/2012 3:07 PM, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 May 2012 09:27:44 -0500, Slackfest
>> <baron.v...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>>
>>
>>>> The new deal did not work
>>>
>>> Yes, it did, else you wouldn't be here today..
>>
>> Well...yes he probably would have.
>>
>> Tents, shacks, hovels, his kids working to bring food in, dirty water,
>> filthy air, little or no hope of a future----
>
> Sounds pretty much like life under Obama the Socialist...
>
>
>> Loonytarian/conservative policies have consistently killed us...
>
> Socialists policies killed 100 million last century.... remember Mao and
> Pol Pot and Stalin and the other leftist heroes?
>
>
>
>
>> But the Kochs, Romneys, Scaifes would need him to hoe the garden.
>
> And you feel that is bad?
>
> I would rather hoe their garden for life than stand in one welfare line.
>
> Your problem is you hate honest work....
>

Is'nt that what all the nanny state liberals are about getting all of us to
suck on the governmant teat Unless we as americans change our direction
and get back to the values of honest work that'ds what will happen

[Lamont Cranston]

On 5/8/2012 6:22 PM, clairbear wrote:
> Lamont Cranston<EnemyOfThoseWh...@Penumbra.org> wrote in
> news:jocgel$f4t$1...@news.datemas.de:
>
>
>>
>> Could you please restate using language and spelling approximating
>> standard American English?
>>
> GO AWAY YOU FECKLESS, SPAMMING, NYM SHIFTING, USELESS SHITHEAD
> <PLONK>
>
> abuse report fowarded to news.datemas.de:

LOL! Meltdown, huh?

[emoneyjoe]

On Wed, 09 May 2012 18:32:46 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
<ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote:

>On 5/9/2012 3:07 PM, Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 May 2012 09:27:44 -0500, Slackfest
>> <baron.v...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>>
>>
>>>> The new deal did not work
>>>
>>> Yes, it did, else you wouldn't be here today..
>>
>> Well...yes he probably would have.
>>
>> Tents, shacks, hovels, his kids working to bring food in, dirty water,
>> filthy air, little or no hope of a future----
>
>Sounds pretty much like life under Obama the Socialist...
>
>
>> Loonytarian/conservative policies have consistently killed us...
>
>Socialists policies killed 100 million last century.... remember Mao and
>Pol Pot and Stalin and the other leftist heroes?

You forgot Hitler, the ultimate socialist, organize
and then shoot any who want to be leader.

[Slackfest]

On 5/9/2012 7:08 PM, clairbear was still writhing in denials:
>
> Slackfest pointed out the obvious, as it eluded:

>>
>> clairbear was whimpering stridently for more attention from:
>>>
>>> Slackfest was amused at the sociopathic projections from:
>>>>
>>>> On 5/9/2012 9:43 AM, clairbear was bleating again:
>>>>>
>>>>> Slackfest was amused by the artificial histrionics exhibited by:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sid9 pointed out the obvious, as it escaped laughing at:
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> David Hartung <yankee...@lie.con> whined:
------->

>>>>>>>> Your ignorance, provincialism, and concealed racism continues!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What the matter por wittle sidney can't stand when someone call
>>>>>>> you aon your liberal lieing way So you have to bring out all the
>>>>>>> Lieberal Libels
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see that you're regurgitating your frightie-rightie pabulum
>>>>>> today..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Speaking of who can't stand having their lies exposed..
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh wow you must be a hit in your local school yard
>>>>
>>>> I seldom venture over to the university..
>>>
>>> It shows in you obvious lack of intellect
>>
>> *>ROTFLMAO!<* Right.. Sure... *>guffaw!~<*

"It shows in you obvious lack of intellect"

*>LOL!<* Unh-hunh..

>>>> --But your sociopathic projections speak volumes about you, dear..
>>>
>>> YOU DO NOT KNOW ME AND DON"T PRESUME YOU DO
>>
>> Then, don't presume I don't know history and then profess your
>> inadequate understanding of the subject to be anything more
>> than a slanted, right-wing knee-jerker repeating the political
>> pabulum of a failed ideology, dear..
>>
>> --But, keep on telling on yourself, I wouldn't mind another laugh, dear.
>
> DEAR?

You'd prefer "dearie?

> what are you another of those fags cursing the net

Nope, but you keep knee-jerking like a narrow-minded right-winger..

--I wouldn't have it any other way..

[Slackfest]

On 5/9/2012 7:10 PM, clairbear was whining with:
>
> enema_joke <emon...@iglou.com> wrote in..
___

>> And Russia and it's slave states during the 'union"
>> had good technology for military aircraft and ICBMs,

Yeah, if you like vacuum tube technologies for your guidance
systems and radar discriminator circuits..

>> which shows that socialism doesn't do much for the
>> workers.
>>
> One wonder why liberals are so blind to truthes like that

Because we aren't easily fooled into believing in some
non-existent 'boogeyman' like lock-step "conservatives"..

> Are the all just useful idiots of the socialist?

No, but you so-called conservatives have been, historically,
the 'useful idiots' of the corporate fascists..

--Your 'astro-turf' organizations are a prime example..

[David Hartung]

On 05/09/2012 08:20 PM, Slackfest wrote:
> On 5/9/2012 7:10 PM, clairbear was whining with:
>>
>> enema_joke <emon...@iglou.com> wrote in..
> ___
>
>>> And Russia and it's slave states during the 'union"
>>> had good technology for military aircraft and ICBMs,
>
> Yeah, if you like vacuum tube technologies for your guidance
> systems and radar discriminator circuits..
>
>>> which shows that socialism doesn't do much for the
>>> workers.
>>>
>> One wonder why liberals are so blind to truthes like that
>
> Because we aren't easily fooled into believing in some
> non-existent 'boogeyman' like lock-step "conservatives"..

Your postings indicate just the opposite.

[Slackfest]

>> --Your 'astro-turf' organizations are a prime example..
>

> Your postings indicate just the opposite.

Yet, you didn't seem capable of presenting anything to
support your statement, which was but insinuation of
an imagined trait in my posting, which you could not
actually know.

--But, that's how you deflect from actually discussing a topic..

[Fake BP Oil Spill]

In article <jofg6g$qph$2...@dont-email.me>

Evasion by miscombobulation noted...

[Nickname unavailable]

On May 9, 8:12 pm, emoneyjoe <emoney...@iglou.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 May 2012 18:32:46 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>
>

> <ThenDestroyEveryth...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote:

> >On 5/9/2012 3:07 PM, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> >> On Wed, 09 May 2012 09:27:44 -0500, Slackfest
> >> <baron.von.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On 5/9/2012 8:52 AM, clairbear writhed in denials:
>
> >>>> The new deal did not work
>
> >>> Yes, it did, else you wouldn't be here today..
>
> >> Well...yes he probably would have.
>
> >> Tents, shacks, hovels, his kids working to bring food in, dirty water,
> >> filthy air, little or no hope of a future----
>
> >Sounds pretty much like life under Obama the Socialist...
>
> >> Loonytarian/conservative policies have consistently killed us...
>
> >Socialists policies killed 100 million last century.... remember Mao and
> >Pol Pot and Stalin and the other leftist heroes?
>
>        You forgot Hitler, the ultimate socialist, organize
> and then shoot any who want to be leader.
>

liar, hitler was a conservative. he was bankrolled by wealthy
conservatives, and conservatives served him faithfully in his
government, right up to the last day.

here are the three 3 phases of conservative decay.
1.conservatism(policies always fail)
2. libertarianism(the drive for purity, the conservative polices and
those that implemented them, were not pure enough)
3. fascism(the rise of the strong man to ensure purity), the
strongman
will drive out the impure, liberals, jews, immigrants, trade
unionists, communists, socialists, those with mental and physical
defects,
gypsies, etc. this to fails on a huge scale. just look what happened
to the central european fascists. they collapsed their economies, and
came up millions of workers and soldiers short.

[Slackfest]

On 5/9/2012 11:37 PM, Fake Pseudonym whined:
>
> Slackfest refuted:

>>
>> On 5/9/2012 8:55 PM, David Hartung wrote:
>>>
>>> On 05/09/2012 08:20 PM, Slackfest wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 5/9/2012 7:10 PM, clairbear was whining with:
>>>>>
>>>>> enema_joke<emon...@iglou.com> wrote in..

----->

>>>>>> which shows that socialism doesn't do much for the
>>>>>> workers.
>>>>>>
>>>>> One wonder why liberals are so blind to truthes like that
>>>>
>>>> Because we aren't easily fooled into believing in some
>>>> non-existent 'boogeyman' like lock-step "conservatives"..
>>>>
>>>> --Your 'astro-turf' organizations are a prime example..
>>>
>>> Your postings indicate just the opposite.
>>
>> Yet, you didn't seem capable of presenting anything to
>> support your statement, which was but insinuation of
>> an imagined trait in my posting, which you could not
>> actually know.
>>
>> --But, that's how you deflect from actually discussing a topic..
>
> Evasion by miscombobulation

"miscombobulation"?

--*>LOL!<*..

[BeamMeUpScotty]

On 5/9/2012 9:20 PM, Slackfest wrote:
> On 5/9/2012 7:10 PM, clairbear was whining with:
>>
>> enema_joke <emon...@iglou.com> wrote in..
> ___
>
>>> And Russia and it's slave states during the 'union"
>>> had good technology for military aircraft and ICBMs,
>
> Yeah, if you like vacuum tube technologies for your guidance
> systems and radar discriminator circuits..

I learned electronics on vacuum tubes, and transistors.... and tubes do
have a certain quality that you can't imitate with digital circuits.

[emoneyjoe]

The US may have been using old technology too,
but what I was saying is the Russians put a huge effort
into military hardware but not much into domestic products.


And there was never any danger of any country
attacking Russia, obviously the Soviet ambitions
were expansion of influence, or worse.

[BeamMeUpScotty]

On 5/10/2012 12:53 PM, emoneyjoe wrote:
> On Thu, 10 May 2012 11:41:37 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
> <ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/9/2012 9:20 PM, Slackfest wrote:
>>> On 5/9/2012 7:10 PM, clairbear was whining with:
>>>>
>>>> enema_joke <emon...@iglou.com> wrote in..
>>> ___
>>>
>>>>> And Russia and it's slave states during the 'union"
>>>>> had good technology for military aircraft and ICBMs,
>>>
>>> Yeah, if you like vacuum tube technologies for your guidance
>>> systems and radar discriminator circuits..
>>
>> I learned electronics on vacuum tubes, and transistors.... and tubes do
>> have a certain quality that you can't imitate with digital circuits.
>
> The US may have been using old technology too,
> but what I was saying is the Russians put a huge effort
> into military hardware but not much into domestic products.
>
>

Just look at toilet paper, NO socialist Nation seems to be able to get
the government to produce and distribute enough toilet paper for the
masses... a simple thing and yet they all fail at filling this simple
need of the workers.

--
*He has the most who is most content with the least* -Diogenes-

[jim]

BeamMeUpScotty wrote:

> Just look at toilet paper, NO socialist Nation seems to be able to get
> the government to produce and distribute enough toilet paper for the
> masses... a simple thing and yet they all fail at filling this simple
> need of the workers.

If somebody would just fix your toilet problems you'd be
as happy as a clam.

[Lamont Cranston]

David projects a lot.

[linuxgal]

BeamMeUpScotty wrote:

> I learned electronics on vacuum tubes, and transistors.... and tubes do
> have a certain quality that you can't imitate with digital circuits.

They emphasize the even harmonics, which gives the sound a mellower
timbre. Digital waveforms are built from square waves with sharp
corners, so you get the odd harmonics emphasized. It's like the
difference between a flute and a sax. But computers are so fast these
days you can emulate a tube amp with software.