U.S. MEDICAL BANKRUPTCIES A MYTH
Dionysus
HEAD: U.S. MEDICAL BANKRUPTCIES A MYTH; PERSONAL BANKRUPTCY RATE HIGHER IN
CANADA
The idea that large numbers of Americans are declaring bankruptcy due to
medical expenses is a myth. Therefore, the introduction of government-run
health insurance in the United States will do nothing to reduce personal
bankruptcies, concludes a new study by the Fraser Institute.
The current debate about reforming U.S. health care policy has included
suggestions that nearly two-thirds of personal bankruptcies in the United
States result from uninsured medical expenses or loss of income due to
illness. Advocates of socialized medicine argue that this would not occur
if the United States adopted a government-run health system similar to
Canada's. However, if socialized medicine played a role in reducing
personal bankruptcies, we would expect to see a lower rate of personal
bankruptcy in Canada compared to the United States.
To the contrary, says Fraser:
--The personal bankruptcy rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and
2007 (0.30 percent for both years) than in the United States (0.20 percent
and .27 percent).
--Medical spending was only one of several contributing factors in 17
percent of U.S. bankruptcies -- medical debts accounted for only 12 to 13
percent of the total debts among American bankruptcy filers who cited
medical debt as one of their reasons for bankruptcy.
Medical reasons were cited as the primary cause of bankruptcy by
approximately 15 percent of bankrupt Canadian seniors (55 years of age and
older).
--Non-medical expenditures comprise the majority of debt among bankrupt
consumers in both Canada and the United States; the inability to earn
sufficient income to cover these costs -- not exposure to uninsured medical
costs -- is the real explanation for almost all bankruptcies in either
country.
Thus, bankruptcy statistics do not support arguments for a government-run,
single-payer, socialized health insurance system, says Fraser.
Source: Brett J. Skinner and Mark Rovere, "U.S. Medical Bankruptcies a Myth;
Personal Bankruptcy Rate Higher in Canada," Fraser Institute, July 7, 2009.
For text:
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/Commerce.Web/product_files/HealthInsuranceandBankruptcyRates.pdf
***********************
"I doubt whether there are many Americans who think Congress has either the
right or competency to choose where they live, what clothes they wear or
what cars they drive. Yet many Americans stand ready to allow Congress to
decide what doctors they go to and what treatments they receive. We forget
that once we have government-sponsored health care, it can be used to
justify almost any restraint on liberty." --Walter E. Williams
"The bureaucracy kills you. They're on you day and night.Their oversight is
just too extreme."--Lee Iacocca, legendary carmaker and vintner, about
taking gov't money
"Man is not free unless government is limited."--Ronald Reagan
Dionysus
Michael Coburn
> FROM NCPA
Yet another Reich wing stink tank picks some cherries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Policy_Analysis
> HEAD: U.S. MEDICAL BANKRUPTCIES A MYTH; PERSONAL BANKRUPTCY RATE HIGHER
> IN CANADA
>
> The idea that large numbers of Americans are declaring bankruptcy due to
> medical expenses is a myth. Therefore, the introduction of
> government-run health insurance in the United States will do nothing to
> reduce personal bankruptcies, concludes a new study by the Fraser
> Institute.
>
> The current debate about reforming U.S. health care policy has included
> suggestions that nearly two-thirds of personal bankruptcies in the
> United States result from uninsured medical expenses or loss of income
> due to illness. Advocates of socialized medicine argue that this would
> not occur if the United States adopted a government-run health system
> similar to Canada's. However, if socialized medicine played a role in
> reducing personal bankruptcies, we would expect to see a lower rate of
> personal bankruptcy in Canada compared to the United States.
Only if we were stupid enough to infer causation or stupid enough to
believe some lying sack of shit Republican that claims the causation.
Who knows why Canadians file bankruptcy and/or what they gain or lose
from doing so. It could be that bankruptcy in Canada is tied to buying
Christmas presents. But it sure as hell isn't 30% because of health care
expenses.
> To the contrary, says Fraser:
> --The personal bankruptcy rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and
> 2007 (0.30 percent for both years) than in the United States (0.20
> percent and .27 percent).
>
> --Medical spending was only one of several contributing factors in 17
> percent of U.S. bankruptcies -- medical debts accounted for only 12 to
> 13 percent of the total debts among American bankruptcy filers who cited
> medical debt as one of their reasons for bankruptcy.
Previous reports contradict the rightarded reports.
> Medical reasons were cited as the primary cause of bankruptcy by
> approximately 15 percent of bankrupt Canadian seniors (55 years of age
> and older).
The Canadian system does not cover drugs. SOME people below 55 get that
through employer group policies. There is no medicare 'D' in Canada.
There is no reference to AGE in the percentages here other then this
particular occasion so that the 15% number can be blasted into the
report. Obviously the seniors have a very hard time of it in Canada as
the 'd' part of medicare is missing. They OBVIOUSLY comprise the bulk of
the people in Canada that do bankruptcy for medical reasons.
> --Non-medical expenditures comprise the majority of debt among bankrupt
> consumers in both Canada and the United States; the inability to earn
> sufficient income to cover these costs -- not exposure to uninsured
> medical costs -- is the real explanation for almost all bankruptcies in
> either country.
This is a good one!! If I owe $330k on my home, and I get slapped with a
$50K medical bill and cannot manage to pay my mortgage and my medical
bill then the bulk of my debt is the $330k even though it was the $50k
bill that bankrupted me. Fun with numbers in the "Cato" tradition.
> Thus, bankruptcy statistics do not support arguments for a
> government-run, single-payer, socialized health insurance system, says
> Fraser.
>
> Source: Brett J. Skinner and Mark Rovere, "U.S. Medical Bankruptcies a
> Myth; Personal Bankruptcy Rate Higher in Canada," Fraser Institute, July
> 7, 2009.
One Sink tank supports the other stink tank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frasier_Institute
> For text:
>
> http://www.fraserinstitute.org/Commerce.Web/product_files/
HealthInsuranceandBankruptcyRates.pdf
> ***********************
I actually read the PDF. The numbers above are cherry picked emphasized
rubbish from that original cherry picked report.
--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson
Dionysus
"Michael Coburn" <mik...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:h335t...@news3.newsguy.com...
> On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:45:54 -0400, Dionysus wrote:
>
>> FROM NCPA
>
> Yet another Reich wing stink tank picks some cherries
Your vile bile is of no consequence. I am again reminded your ill humours
are caused by diabetes and arthritis and a truly repugnant disposition; they
power your vulgar misanthropy.
I also know the anonymity of the Internet is the source of your bravado and
if we were in the same room, you'd keep your head in a subservient, downward
alignment, and would call me "sir."
Dionysus
Sid9
"Dionysus" <no.sur...@never.net> wrote in message
news:frudnVAcNvTz0MjX...@giganews.com...
More than four years ago it was true.
Your post is a lie and part of the anti-universal health
care campaign by insurance companies.
It's true today, too:
"Medical bills make up half of bankruptcies
updated 7:43 a.m. ET, Wed., Feb. 2, 2005
Study finds most bankruptcy filers had health insurance
BOSTON - Costly illnesses trigger about half of all personal
bankruptcies, and most of those who go bankrupt because of
medical problems have health insurance, according to
findings from a Harvard University study to be released
Wednesday.
Researchers from Harvard's law and medical schools said the
findings underscore the inadequacy of many private insurance
plans that offer worst-case catastrophic coverage, but
little financial security for less severe illnesses.
"Unless you're Bill Gates, you're just one serious illness
away from bankruptcy," said Dr. David Himmelstein, the study's
lead author and an associate professor of medicine. "Most of
the medically bankrupt were average Americans who happened
to get sick.""
jane
> "Dionysus" <no.surren...@never.net> wrote in message
AND here is a quote from one of the Co-Authors, Elizabeth Warren, of
the article that disputes that the cause of bankruptcy is medical:
“Today, families are carrying so much more consumer debt that even a
modest medical bill can put
them over the edge financially.”
HOWEVER, rather than dispute the Himmelstein study, let's presume it
is true. Your article stated, " Costly illnesses trigger about half
of all personal bankruptcies"
If that is the case, then since Canadians don't have to worry about
health care costs, Canada should have half the per capita
bankruptcies. I am confused. Can you please explain to me why the
personal bankruptcy rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and
2007 (0.30 percent for both years) than in the United States (0.20
percent
and .27 percent)?
Jane.
Sid9
"jane" <jane....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5f11e3c8-8019-4d1e...@t21g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Yes, you are confused by reality and the disinformation
campaign by insurance companies to protect their turf at the
expense of the American people.
"Reality has a Liberal bent", Stephen Colbert
Dionysus
"jane" <jane....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5f11e3c8-8019-4d1e...@t21g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
�Today, families are carrying so much more consumer debt that even a
modest medical bill can put
them over the edge financially.�
HOWEVER, rather than dispute the Himmelstein study, let's presume it
is true. Your article stated, " Costly illnesses trigger about half
of all personal bankruptcies"
If that is the case, then since Canadians don't have to worry about
health care costs, Canada should have half the per capita
bankruptcies. I am confused. Can you please explain to me why the
personal bankruptcy rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and
2007 (0.30 percent for both years) than in the United States (0.20
percent
and .27 percent)?
Jane.
*************
"Zing-g-g-g!" Good on ya, Jane.
Dionysus
Dionysus
"Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:h34r7d$3v8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> modest medical bill can put
>>
>> HOWEVER, rather than dispute the Himmelstein study, let's presume it
>> is true. Your article stated, " Costly illnesses trigger about half
>> of all personal bankruptcies"
>>
>> If that is the case, then since Canadians don't have to worry about
>> health care costs, Canada should have half the per capita
>> bankruptcies. I am confused. Can you please explain to me why the
>> personal bankruptcy rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and
>> 2007 (0.30 percent for both years) than in the United States (0.20
>> percent
>> and .27 percent)?
>>
>> Jane.
>
> Yes, you are confused by reality and the disinformation campaign by
> insurance companies to protect their turf at the expense of the American
> people.
>
> "Reality has a Liberal bent", Stephen Colbert
Stephen Colbert...he's that silly ass with the one raised eyebrow and pseudo
intellect.
Dionysus
>
Sid9
>>> modest medical bill can put
Smarter than you by a mile!
jane
> "jane" <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Is the disinformation coming from the insurance company or the sources
that you want to believe. The NCPA report used government data from
both the US and Canada. There are other studies that make the same
claim. There is only ONE survey that claims that medical bankruptcies
are 50% or higher, the Dr Himmelstein survey.
SOoo, is the infamous Dr. Himmelstein an unbiased source, or is he
intent on disinformation?
Dr. Himmelstein has a stated agenda. Dr Himmelstein is cofounder of
PNHP (Physicians for a National Health Program).
Additionally, Here is an interview with the "Socialist Worker":
http://socialistworker.org/2004-2/517/517_11_DavidHimmelstein.shtml.
Here is a Dr. Himmelstein quote from that interview: "WE NEED a real
uprising of the American people. Going up against a $300 billion-a-
year industry is no easy matter."
Here is another Dr. Himmelstein quote from the Socialist Worker
Interview: "Maybe we can win national health insurance even before we
get such a third [Labor] party, but it's going to take a broad
strengthening of the left."
Now, tell me that the Dr. Himmelstein report is an unbiased report.
Was Himmelstein honest in his report, or did he create a report to
bring forth " a real uprising of the American people"?
BTW: You forgot to answer my question: If half on US bankruptcies ARE
medical, then why are the US and Canadian per capita bankruptcies
close to the same? Shouldn't Canadian bankruptcies be half?
Jane.
jane
> In article <CPGdnfS137_QbcjXnZ2dnUVZ_tadn...@giganews.com>,
>
> "Dionysus" <no.surren...@never.net> wrote:
> > If that is the case, then since Canadians don't have to worry about
> > health care costs, Canada should have half the per capita
> > bankruptcies. I am confused. Can you please explain to me why the
> > personal bankruptcy rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and
> > 2007 (0.30 percent for both years) than in the United States (0.20
> > percent
> > and .27 percent)?
>
> > Jane.
> > *************
> > "Zing-g-g-g!" Good on ya, Jane.
>
>
> --
> Damn the living - It's a lovely life. I'm whoever you want me to be,
> Silver silverware - Where is the love? Reverend.
> Oval swimming pool - Where is the love? At least I can stay in character.
> Damn the living - It's a lovely life. mmmm lemon yogurt
Do your homework before you post!
Do you expect others to provide the answers?
From the report:
• The 2005 reforms to US
bankruptcy laws have
produced legal standards that
are very similar to Canadian
standards (BankruptcyCanada,
2009a; 2009b).
• Drug insurance is structured
almost identically, so exposure
to drug costs is similar in both
countries. While the entire
Canadian population is
universally eligible for publicly
funded insurance for hospital
and physician services, only
about one-third of the
Canadian population is publicly
insured for prescription drugs.
In Canada, as in the US,
low-income people, disabled
populations, and seniors are
eligible for separate publicly
funded drug programs, while
most employed people obtain
drug insurance as a benefit of
employment, and the rest of
the population pays with their
own money.
• Both countries have
employment insurance
programs that provide income
support in the event of job
loss (US Department of Labor,
2004; Service Canada, 2009).
Unemployment occurs with
roughly similar frequency
among Canadians and
Americans. National
unemployment rates in 2007
were 5.3 percent in Canada
versus 4.6 percent in the
United States (Statistics
Canada, 2009b).
• Access to medical care for
people who experience
long-term unemployment,
disability from illness, and
chronic low-income status is
practically the same in both
countries, being facilitated by
non-profit, publicly funded
community health centers
(NACHC, 2009) and public
programs like Medicaid in the
US, and government-run
systems in Canada.
Jane
Michael Coburn
And the scope of that claim was within the US?
> If that is the case, then since Canadians don't have to worry about
> health care costs, Canada should have half the per capita bankruptcies.
This is typical rightarded lying. The Canadian bankruptcies may not be
due to medical catastrophes. You are inferring that bankruptcies in
Canada are caused by the same thing that causes bankruptcies in the US.
That inference is unsupported garbage.
> I am confused.
No you aren't. You are simply spreading the lies of the Reich winged
stink tanks because you are rightarded.
> Can you please explain to me why the personal bankruptcy
> rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and 2007 (0.30 percent for
> both years) than in the United States (0.20 percent
> and .27 percent)?
Why should the sane people be compelled to "explain" the cognitive
dissonance that infects the rightarded.
Sid9
Very few from Western Europe emigrate to the United States.
Not one Western European nation is in the top ten of
immigrants to the US
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Origin
Those nations universally have some form of universal health
care
Sid9
All of Western Europe had universal health care for their
citizens.
Not one of these nations is in the top ten of countries
sending immigrants to the US
Lamont Cranston
> "Michael Coburn" <mik...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:h335t...@news3.newsguy.com...
>> On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:45:54 -0400, Dionysus wrote:
>>
>>> FROM NCPA
>>
>> Yet another Reich wing stink tank picks some cherries
> *****************
> Your vile bile is of no consequence. I am again reminded
> your ill
> humours are caused by diabetes and arthritis and a truly
> repugnant
> disposition; they power your vulgar misanthropy.
>
> I also know the anonymity of the Internet is the source of
> your
> bravado and if we were in the same room, you'd keep your
> head in a
> subservient, downward alignment, and would call me "sir."
>
Brilliant rebuttal, Denis. Absolutely brilliant.
Let's be clear about one thing. Nobody would ever call you
"sir." If you had children, they would not call you "sir."
Dionysus
"Lamont Cranston"
<Lamont....@WhoKnowsWhatEvilLurksInTheHeartsOfRepugs.com> wrote in
message news:h351ht$5at$1...@news.datemas.de...
As with that Mikey, that vial of vile bile, the anonymity of the Internet is
the source of
your bravado.
Dionysus
Michael Coburn
> “Today, families are carrying so much more consumer debt that even a
> modest medical bill can put
> them over the edge financially.”
>
> HOWEVER, rather than dispute the Himmelstein study, let's presume it is
> true. Your article stated, " Costly illnesses trigger about half of
> all personal bankruptcies"
>
> If that is the case, then since Canadians don't have to worry about
> health care costs, Canada should have half the per capita bankruptcies.
> I am confused. Can you please explain to me why the personal bankruptcy
> rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and 2007 (0.30 percent for
> both years) than in the United States (0.20 percent
> and .27 percent)?
>
> Jane.
> *************
> "Zing-g-g-g!" Good on ya, Jane.
>
> Dionysus
Nice work ya'll. You have managed, in true rightarded fashion to add
shit plus 2 and come up with 8.
In what you present there is no assessment of WHY Canadians file
bankruptcy. They may have a lot of gambling debts.
Dionysus
> > that even a
> > modest medical bill can put
Jane.
***************
Now you've done it...you've actually demanded Sidney think, and justify one
of his sillinesses. That'll be hard.
Dionysus
Dionysus
>> bankruptcy laws have
>> produced legal standards that
>> are very similar to Canadian
>> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
>> 2009a; 2009b).
>> almost identically, so exposure
>> to drug costs is similar in both
>> countries. While the entire
>> Canadian population is
>> universally eligible for publicly
>> funded insurance for hospital
>> and physician services, only
>> about one-third of the
>> Canadian population is publicly
>> insured for prescription drugs.
>> In Canada, as in the US,
>> low-income people, disabled
>> populations, and seniors are
>> eligible for separate publicly
>> funded drug programs, while
>> most employed people obtain
>> drug insurance as a benefit of
>> employment, and the rest of
>> the population pays with their
>> own money.
>> employment insurance
>> programs that provide income
>> support in the event of job
>> loss (US Department of Labor,
>> 2004; Service Canada, 2009).
>> Unemployment occurs with
>> roughly similar frequency
>> among Canadians and
>> Americans. National
>> unemployment rates in 2007
>> were 5.3 percent in Canada
>> versus 4.6 percent in the
>> United States (Statistics
>> Canada, 2009b).
>> people who experience
>> long-term unemployment,
>> disability from illness, and
>> chronic low-income status is
>> practically the same in both
>> countries, being facilitated by
>> non-profit, publicly funded
>> community health centers
>> (NACHC, 2009) and public
>> programs like Medicaid in the
>> US, and government-run
>> systems in Canada.
>>
>> Jane
>
> Very few from Western Europe emigrate to the United States.
>
> Not one Western European nation is in the top ten of immigrants to the US
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Origin
>
> Those nations universally have some form of universal health care
What an irrelevancy. How many US citizens emigrate to Europe for the
healthcare? 0%
or less!
"Beware the fallacies into which undisciplined thinkers most easily
fall--they are the real distorting prisms of human nature." --Francis Bacon
Dionysus
>
>
>
>
Michael Coburn
> From the report:
> • The 2005 reforms to US
> bankruptcy laws have
> produced legal standards that
> are very similar to Canadian
> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
> 2009a; 2009b).
> • Drug insurance is structured
> almost identically, so exposure
> to drug costs is similar in both
> countries.
This is a blatant lie.
> While the entire
> Canadian population is
> universally eligible for publicly
> funded insurance for hospital
> and physician services, only
> about one-third of the
> Canadian population is publicly
> insured for prescription drugs.
The Canadians do not have Medicare part 'd' to pick up the prescription
drug costs for seniors. And there is a high percentage of "medically
related" bankruptcies in the Canadian population among the over 55
group. For the young and healthy, prescription drug insurance seems to
be obtained through employers as it is in the USA. Once one retires it
can get tough.
> In Canada, as in the US,
> low-income people, disabled
> populations, and seniors are
> eligible for separate publicly
> funded drug programs, while
> most employed people obtain
> drug insurance as a benefit of
> employment, and the rest of
> the population pays with their
> own money.
The "means test" for the drug benefits will prompt a lot of seniors to
execute a very early settlement of the "estate" giving the house to the
kids and THEN a bankruptcy. Low income and no assets is the typical
requirement for assistance programs. These programs care not what your
living expenses are. They focus on income and assets.
jane
OK, I have read your response and your three statements address drug
costs only.
According to Dr Himmelstein, over 50% in his first report and over 60%
in his second report are medical bankruptcies.
Your blowing off the drug issue does not account for why "The personal
bankruptcy rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and 2007 (0.30
percent for both years) than in the United States (0.20 percent and .
27 percent).
Since over 50% of US bankruptcies are supposedly medical, does that
mean the over 50% of Canadian bankruptcies are drug costs? I see no
way of explaining why Canada should have a higher bankruptcy rate than
the US, since the Canadian citizen doesn't have to worry about medical
costs (excluding drugs, according to you)
Jane
Sid9
>> > that even a
>> > modest medical bill can put
I have nothing to rethink.
I sued my health insurance company three times for failing
to fulfill their contract,
They are cheats who have no interest in your health.
You can die as long as their bottom line is OK.
If that�s the kind of health insurer you want...stick with
it.
I think we can do better
Sid9
>>> bankruptcy laws have
>>> produced legal standards that
>>> are very similar to Canadian
>>> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
>>> 2009a; 2009b).
>>> almost identically, so exposure
>>> to drug costs is similar in both
>>> countries. While the entire
>>> Canadian population is
>>> universally eligible for publicly
>>> funded insurance for hospital
>>> and physician services, only
>>> about one-third of the
>>> Canadian population is publicly
>>> insured for prescription drugs.
>>> In Canada, as in the US,
>>> low-income people, disabled
>>> populations, and seniors are
>>> eligible for separate publicly
>>> funded drug programs, while
>>> most employed people obtain
>>> drug insurance as a benefit of
>>> employment, and the rest of
>>> the population pays with their
>>> own money.
>>> employment insurance
>>> programs that provide income
>>> support in the event of job
>>> loss (US Department of Labor,
>>> 2004; Service Canada, 2009).
>>> Unemployment occurs with
>>> roughly similar frequency
>>> among Canadians and
>>> Americans. National
>>> unemployment rates in 2007
>>> were 5.3 percent in Canada
>>> versus 4.6 percent in the
>>> United States (Statistics
>>> Canada, 2009b).
I didn�t specify health care as a reason for emigration.
Health care is only one component of "quality of life"
I do know, however, that Canadian visitors to Florida cut
their trips short so as not to lose the residency
requirement for Canadian health care.
Sid9
You bankruptcy story doesn�t ring true. There is better than
a 2.65 times likelihood that you will have a medical
bankruptcy in the US than Canada:
http://www.bankruptcycanada.com/blog/canadian-and-us-bankruptcy-rates/
"Huge Disparity between Canadian and US Bankruptcy Rates.
Bankruptcy Canada Blog.
Bankruptcy Rates in the Canada and the US � The huge
disparity is because of the health care system.
The US bankruptcy rate (6.9 per thousand) for the year 2004
is more than twice as high as the Canadian bankruptcy rate
(2.6 per thousand). The main reason for the huge disparity
in bankruptcy rates in Canada and the US is because of the
different health care systems in the two countries.
Canada has universal health care for all citizens paid for
out of taxes. The US system is based on private enterprise
mainly provided by insurance companies.
A Harvard Study reported that half of US bankruptcies were
caused by medical Bills (MSNBC) & (ABC News). The study was
published online in February of 2005 by Health Affairs. The
Harvard study concluded that illness and medical bills
caused half (50.4 percent) of the 1,458,000 personal
bankruptcies in 2001. The study estimates that medical
bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually �
counting debtors and their dependents, including about
700,000 children.
Most of the medical bankruptcy filers were middle class; 56
percent owned a home and the same number had attended
college. In many cases, illness forced breadwinners to take
time off from work � losing income and job-based health
insurance precisely when families needed it most. Families
in bankruptcy suffered many privations � 30 percent had a
utility cut off and 61 percent went without needed medical
care.
The research, carried out jointly by researchers at Harvard
Law School and Harvard Medical School, is the first in-depth
study of medical causes of bankruptcy. With the cooperation
of bankruptcy judges in five Federal districts (in
California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Texas)
they administered questionnaires to bankruptcy filers and
reviewed their court records.
Dionysus
>>> > that even a
>>> > modest medical bill can put
> I think we can do better
Now it comes out...you're nothing more than an insurance scammer. So, how
long d'yo wear that soft neck brace?
Dionysus
>
>
Dionysus
>>>> bankruptcy laws have
>>>> produced legal standards that
>>>> are very similar to Canadian
>>>> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
>>>> 2009a; 2009b).
>>>> almost identically, so exposure
>>>> to drug costs is similar in both
>>>> countries. While the entire
>>>> Canadian population is
>>>> universally eligible for publicly
>>>> funded insurance for hospital
>>>> and physician services, only
>>>> about one-third of the
>>>> Canadian population is publicly
>>>> insured for prescription drugs.
>>>> In Canada, as in the US,
>>>> low-income people, disabled
>>>> populations, and seniors are
>>>> eligible for separate publicly
>>>> funded drug programs, while
>>>> most employed people obtain
>>>> drug insurance as a benefit of
>>>> employment, and the rest of
>>>> the population pays with their
>>>> own money.
>>>> employment insurance
>>>> programs that provide income
>>>> support in the event of job
>>>> loss (US Department of Labor,
>>>> 2004; Service Canada, 2009).
>>>> Unemployment occurs with
>>>> roughly similar frequency
>>>> among Canadians and
>>>> Americans. National
>>>> unemployment rates in 2007
>>>> were 5.3 percent in Canada
>>>> versus 4.6 percent in the
>>>> United States (Statistics
>>>> Canada, 2009b).
> Health care is only one component of "quality of life"
>
> I do know, however, that Canadian visitors to Florida cut their trips
> short so as not to lose the residency requirement for Canadian health
> care.
Ah, yes, the "snowbirds." Leave their frigid country for six months every
year, then hightail it back to suck on the commonweal's teat, cuz that's all
they know. You really think that's a paradigm worth emulating?
Dionysus
>
>
jane
> "jane" <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote in message
1: Give me a break, Sid. Do you actually read your citations and check
for validity, or do you simply read the head line. Your article
stated US bankruptcy rate of 6.9/thousand and a Canadian rate of 2.6/
thousand. BUT, if you go to THEIR citation, you will see something
entirely different!!!
" This is a [US] rate of 2.1 filings/thousand." [1]
" This is a [Canadian] rate of 3.0 filings/thousand."
2: The second half of your news story is a repeat of the same infamous
Dr Himmelstein survey that has been disputed in peer review. Citing a
second news story that references the same Himmelstein survey is not a
second source.
Jane
footnotes:
1: citation provide by Sid9
Sid9
>>>> > that even a
>>>> > modest medical bill can put
>> I think we can do better
> **********
> Now it comes out...you're nothing more than an insurance
> scammer. So, how long d'yo wear that soft neck brace?
More distortions and lies from you.
My wife had surgery.
The insurance company paid about half...they were obligated
to pay all.
They claimed their contract allowed them to pay "usual and
customary.
They refused to explain how they arrived at that amount.
As luck would have it my neighbors daughter had exactly the
same surgery with a different doctor. Their bill was within
$50 of our bill.
They would not settle.
I sued.
They paid me the full amount in the court house lobby plus
my expenses.
They would NOT go before a judge.
This happened two mores times.
Each time they paid in full in the courthouse lobby plus my
expenses.
How many insured people roll over and play dead when they
are ripped off?
My guess is that I am a tiny exception to the money these
crooks rip off from the public.
Now "Harry and Louise" are out there lying again.
Sadly, the American public, including you, keeps saying
"Thank you" as they get fucked.
These are the only times in my life I have ever sued anyone.
Sid9
>>>>> bankruptcy laws have
>>>>> produced legal standards that
>>>>> are very similar to Canadian
>>>>> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
>>>>> 2009a; 2009b).
>>>>> almost identically, so exposure
>>>>> to drug costs is similar in both
>>>>> countries. While the entire
>>>>> Canadian population is
>>>>> universally eligible for publicly
>>>>> funded insurance for hospital
>>>>> and physician services, only
>>>>> about one-third of the
>>>>> Canadian population is publicly
>>>>> insured for prescription drugs.
>>>>> In Canada, as in the US,
>>>>> low-income people, disabled
>>>>> populations, and seniors are
>>>>> eligible for separate publicly
>>>>> funded drug programs, while
>>>>> most employed people obtain
>>>>> drug insurance as a benefit of
>>>>> employment, and the rest of
>>>>> the population pays with their
>>>>> own money.
>>>>> employment insurance
>>>>> programs that provide income
>>>>> support in the event of job
>>>>> loss (US Department of Labor,
>>>>> 2004; Service Canada, 2009).
>>>>> Unemployment occurs with
>>>>> roughly similar frequency
>>>>> among Canadians and
>>>>> Americans. National
>>>>> unemployment rates in 2007
>>>>> were 5.3 percent in Canada
>>>>> versus 4.6 percent in the
>>>>> United States (Statistics
>>>>> Canada, 2009b).
>> Health care is only one component of "quality of life"
>>
>> I do know, however, that Canadian visitors to Florida cut
>> their trips short so as not to lose the residency
>> requirement for Canadian health care.
> ***********
> Ah, yes, the "snowbirds." Leave their frigid country for
> six months every year, then hightail it back to suck on
> the commonweal's teat, cuz that's all they know. You
> really think that's a paradigm worth emulating?
There must be something good to go back for that they can't
get here...UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE
Dionysus
>>>>> > that even a
>>>>> > modest medical bill can put
>>> I think we can do better
>> **********
>> Now it comes out...you're nothing more than an insurance scammer. So,
>> how long d'yo wear that soft neck brace?
>
>
> More distortions and lies from you.
>
> My wife had surgery.
>
> The insurance company paid about half...they were obligated to pay all.
> They claimed their contract allowed them to pay "usual and customary.
> They refused to explain how they arrived at that amount.
>
> As luck would have it my neighbors daughter had exactly the same surgery
> with a different doctor. Their bill was within $50 of our bill.
>
> They would not settle.
> I sued.
>
> They paid me the full amount in the court house lobby plus my expenses.
> They would NOT go before a judge.
> This happened two mores times.
> Each time they paid in full in the courthouse lobby plus my expenses.
>
> How many insured people roll over and play dead when they are ripped off?
> My guess is that I am a tiny exception to the money these crooks rip off
> from the public.
>
> Now "Harry and Louise" are out there lying again.
>
> Sadly, the American public, including you, keeps saying "Thank you" as
> they get fucked.
>
> These are the only times in my life I have ever sued anyone.
So, you got relief in a court of law. We are, after all, a nation of laws,
not men, yet you'd turn over your healthcare to faceless "Brazil"
bureaucrats?? Not me, not if I can help it.
"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned
benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others." --Ayn
Rand
Dionysus
Dionysus
>>>>>> bankruptcy laws have
>>>>>> produced legal standards that
>>>>>> are very similar to Canadian
>>>>>> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
>>>>>> 2009a; 2009b).
>>>>>> almost identically, so exposure
>>>>>> to drug costs is similar in both
>>>>>> countries. While the entire
>>>>>> Canadian population is
>>>>>> universally eligible for publicly
>>>>>> funded insurance for hospital
>>>>>> and physician services, only
>>>>>> about one-third of the
>>>>>> Canadian population is publicly
>>>>>> insured for prescription drugs.
>>>>>> In Canada, as in the US,
>>>>>> low-income people, disabled
>>>>>> populations, and seniors are
>>>>>> eligible for separate publicly
>>>>>> funded drug programs, while
>>>>>> most employed people obtain
>>>>>> drug insurance as a benefit of
>>>>>> employment, and the rest of
>>>>>> the population pays with their
>>>>>> own money.
>>>>>> employment insurance
>>>>>> programs that provide income
>>>>>> support in the event of job
>>>>>> loss (US Department of Labor,
>>>>>> 2004; Service Canada, 2009).
>>>>>> Unemployment occurs with
>>>>>> roughly similar frequency
>>>>>> among Canadians and
>>>>>> Americans. National
>>>>>> unemployment rates in 2007
>>>>>> were 5.3 percent in Canada
>>>>>> versus 4.6 percent in the
>>>>>> United States (Statistics
>>>>>> Canada, 2009b).
>>> Health care is only one component of "quality of life"
>>>
>>> I do know, however, that Canadian visitors to Florida cut their trips
>>> short so as not to lose the residency requirement for Canadian health
>>> care.
>> ***********
>> Ah, yes, the "snowbirds." Leave their frigid country for six months every
>> year, then hightail it back to suck on the commonweal's teat, cuz that's
>> all they know. You really think that's a paradigm worth emulating?
>
> There must be something good to go back for that they can't get
> here...UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE
No, call it what it is: You and your ill ilk sucking at the USA taxpayer
teat. When ya gonna demand universal food, universal clothing, universal
etc, etc, etc!!! Grow up. Be a man.
Dionysus
>
>
Sid9
I can�t find your claim of a lower number of health care
bankruptcies.
6.9 stands until you proved a URL.
Refutation of challenge is in part below.
It's "Harry and Louise" raising their ugly heads again.
Same lies eight years later
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/25/2/w84
Discounting The Debtors Will Not Make Medical Bankruptcy
Disappear
David U. Himmelstein, Elizabeth Warren, Deborah Thorne and
Steffie Woolhandler
David Dranove and Michael Millenson seem determined to deny
that financial fallout from illness pushes middle-class
families into bankruptcy. Anxious to erase the headline that
three-quarters of U.S. medical bankrupts had health
insurance at the onset of their illnesses and the resulting
spotlight on inadequate coverage and insurance cancellation
practices, they ignore most of our data and misrepresent the
rest. They dismiss families� explanations of their
difficulties and blame those ruined by illness for their own
problems. However, the data from the bankruptcy courts are
undeniable. Bankruptcies affect mainly middle-class,
privately insured families, and about half are triggered, at
least in part, by illnesses.
IN REVISITING OUR STUDY on medical bankruptcy, David Dranove
and Michael Millenson arbitrarily ignore large portions of
bankrupt debtors� own reports of their financial problems,
misrepresent the previous literature on medical bankruptcy,
and castigate bankrupt families with accusations of
profligacy and allusions to biblical retribution.1 In their
world, middle-class families have little problem affording
care; only a handful are bankrupted by illness; and health
insurers (who paid for their study) are doing a bang-up job.
Sid9
"Out of the China Blue" <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
news:chine.bleu-0F198...@reader80.eternal-september.org...
> In article
> <M9CdnRzzC6wo3cvX...@giganews.com>,
>> >>>> bankruptcy laws have
>> >>>> produced legal standards that
>> >>>> are very similar to Canadian
>> >>>> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
>> >>>> 2009a; 2009b).
>> >>>> almost identically, so exposure
>> >>>> to drug costs is similar in both
>> >>>> countries. While the entire
>> >>>> Canadian population is
>> >>>> universally eligible for publicly
>> >>>> funded insurance for hospital
>> >>>> and physician services, only
>> >>>> about one-third of the
>> >>>> Canadian population is publicly
>> >>>> insured for prescription drugs.
>> >>>> In Canada, as in the US,
>> >>>> low-income people, disabled
>> >>>> populations, and seniors are
>> >>>> eligible for separate publicly
>> >>>> funded drug programs, while
>> >>>> most employed people obtain
>> >>>> drug insurance as a benefit of
>> >>>> employment, and the rest of
>> >>>> the population pays with their
>> >>>> own money.
>> >>>> employment insurance
>> >>>> programs that provide income
>> >>>> support in the event of job
>> >>>> loss (US Department of Labor,
>> >>>> 2004; Service Canada, 2009).
>> >>>> Unemployment occurs with
>> >>>> roughly similar frequency
>> >>>> among Canadians and
>> >>>> Americans. National
>> >>>> unemployment rates in 2007
>> >>>> were 5.3 percent in Canada
>> >>>> versus 4.6 percent in the
>> >>>> United States (Statistics
>> >>>> Canada, 2009b).
>> > Health care is only one component of "quality of life"
>> >
>> > I do know, however, that Canadian visitors to Florida
>> > cut their trips
>> > short so as not to lose the residency requirement for
>> > Canadian health
>> > care.
>> ***********
>> Ah, yes, the "snowbirds." Leave their frigid country for
>> six months every
>> year, then hightail it back to suck on the commonweal's
>> teat, cuz that's all
>> they know. You really think that's a paradigm worth
>> emulating?
>
They know getting sick in the USA can ruin them.
lorad
> FROM NCPA
>
> HEAD: U.S. MEDICAL BANKRUPTCIES A MYTH; PERSONAL BANKRUPTCY RATE HIGHER IN
> CANADA
>
> The idea that large numbers of Americans are declaring bankruptcy due to
> medical expenses is a myth. Therefore, the introduction of government-run
> health insurance in the United States will do nothing to reduce personal
> bankruptcies, concludes a new study by the Fraser Institute.
That's a lie.
More poop-grade misinformation from the coroporatist neocon liars.
Sid9
>>>>>> > that even a
>>>>>> > modest medical bill can put
I'm much better off with my government plan than any private
plan I ever had.
When you get a choice you are free to make your own choice.
My guess is that many Americans with shaky jobs and even
more shaky health insurance would be happy to get a Medicare
type plan for themselves and their family.
Sid9
>>>>>>> bankruptcy laws have
>>>>>>> produced legal standards that
>>>>>>> are very similar to Canadian
>>>>>>> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
>>>>>>> 2009a; 2009b).
>>>>>>> almost identically, so exposure
>>>>>>> to drug costs is similar in both
>>>>>>> countries. While the entire
>>>>>>> Canadian population is
>>>>>>> universally eligible for publicly
>>>>>>> funded insurance for hospital
>>>>>>> and physician services, only
>>>>>>> about one-third of the
>>>>>>> Canadian population is publicly
>>>>>>> insured for prescription drugs.
>>>>>>> In Canada, as in the US,
>>>>>>> low-income people, disabled
>>>>>>> populations, and seniors are
>>>>>>> eligible for separate publicly
>>>>>>> funded drug programs, while
>>>>>>> most employed people obtain
>>>>>>> drug insurance as a benefit of
>>>>>>> employment, and the rest of
>>>>>>> the population pays with their
>>>>>>> own money.
>>>>>>> employment insurance
>>>>>>> programs that provide income
>>>>>>> support in the event of job
>>>>>>> loss (US Department of Labor,
>>>>>>> 2004; Service Canada, 2009).
>>>>>>> Unemployment occurs with
>>>>>>> roughly similar frequency
>>>>>>> among Canadians and
>>>>>>> Americans. National
>>>>>>> unemployment rates in 2007
>>>>>>> were 5.3 percent in Canada
>>>>>>> versus 4.6 percent in the
>>>>>>> United States (Statistics
>>>>>>> Canada, 2009b).
>>>> Health care is only one component of "quality of life"
>>>>
>>>> I do know, however, that Canadian visitors to Florida
>>>> cut their trips short so as not to lose the residency
>>>> requirement for Canadian health care.
>>> ***********
>>> Ah, yes, the "snowbirds." Leave their frigid country for
>>> six months every year, then hightail it back to suck on
>>> the commonweal's teat, cuz that's all they know. You
>>> really think that's a paradigm worth emulating?
>>
>> There must be something good to go back for that they
>> can't get here...UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE
> *************
> No, call it what it is: You and your ill ilk sucking at
> the USA taxpayer teat. When ya gonna demand universal
> food, universal clothing, universal etc, etc, etc!!! Grow
> up. Be a man.
>
> Dionysus
You are lucky that you will never face an adversity that is
not of your making where you are desperate for help.
Not everyone is so fortunate.
Think about some of the veterans who are discharged as
disabled and have no family or home to go back to.
These guys and gals had the service as their only
home...they are cut loose and end up on the streets....well,
at least they have that government VA health care...even if
they have no home.
jane
You provided the URL. I went to your citation and check on their
citation:
http://www.bankruptcycanada.com/bankstats1.htm
I scrolled down and found a section, "Comparison with U.S. / Per
Capita Rates" and here is their quote:
"The latest U.S. bankruptcy statistics for the year ended December 31,
2006 reports 598,000 (Note: 1) consumer filings. The U.S. population,
projected to December 31, 2004, by the U.S. Bureau of the Census, is
297,000,000. This is a rate of 2.1 filings/thousand.
The latest Canadian bankruptcy statistics for the year ended December
31, 2007 reports consumer insolvency (bankruptcy and consumer
proposals) filings of 99,282. Statistics Canada reports the Canadian
population, projected to July 1, 2007 to be 32,976,000. This is a
rate of 3.0 filings/thousand. Alberta has the lowest rate in Canada
with 1.7 insolvencies per thousand."
2.1 US filings/thousand vs 3.0 Canadian filings/thousand.
>
> Refutation of challenge is in part below.
I have seen his refutation. Here is a quote from one of the
coauthors, Elizabeth Warren, of the himmelstein survey:
“Today, families are carrying so much more consumer debt that even a
modest medical bill can put them over the edge financially.”
SOooo,,, was the cause of bankruptcy the modest medical bill that "put
them over the edge" or was it due to "carrying so much more consumer
debt "?
Read Dr. himmelstein's writings carefully. He is very careful to use
words like "triggered", and "led to", and "medical problems contribute
to" with out saying "caused" bankruptcy.
Go to Dr Himmelstein's report and read the section titled, "Medical
Causes of Bankruptcy". Dr Himmelstein did not list a CAUSE of
bankruptcy. Even there, he use his common phrases of "Illness or
medical bills contributed to", and "When asked about problems that
contributed..."
In statistics there is a technique called multivariate analysis that
describes a collection of procedures which involve observation and
analysis of more than one statistical variable at a time. In this
case, it would look at those who filed bankruptcy and those who did
not. It would use the multivariate analysis to determine the effect
of individual criterion (statistical variable). The Himmelstein
survey did not do this or any of the standard analysis techniques.
He simply said anyone who filed a bankruptcy and also had $1,000 in
medical bills had a medical bankruptcy. He did not determine if that
$1,000 had an effect on filing vs not filing bankruptcy.
ADDITIONALLY, Dr Himmelstein listed a death as a medical bankruptcy.
A bread winner could be hit by a bus and die. If the widow had to
file bankruptcy, Dr Himmelstein would include that death as a
bankruptcy. When Dr Himmelstein was questioned about this scenario
Himnelstein stated “It’s a judgment call,” and added that any death,
for example, “to our mind is a medical event.”
ADDITIONALLY, you could gamble away your life savings, gamble your
self into debt, mortgage your house to pay gambling debts, file
bankruptcy with no medical bills and Dr. Himmelstein called that a
medical bankruptcy.
Ya, Right
Jane
Michael Coburn
> On Jul 9, 4:18 pm, "Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> "jane" <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:6489fb31-a269-40a4-8c65-
ad269e...@o7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 9, 2:47 pm, "Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >> "jane" <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:10d385bd-ad35-4fbe-a1fb-
e0c8c7...@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
So where is the data that supports your claim that the Canadian
bankruptcies were cause by medical bills? I ask this because that is
what you infer in your interpretation of the bankruptcy rates. In a
discussion of MEDICAL BANKRUPTCIES that is the issue on which we want to
focus. We do not care how many drunk Canadians lost their ranch in a
poker game.
Dionysus
"lorad" <lora...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:a844a70a-d376-4e5c...@h8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
*******************
Prove the lie, poop sniffer.
Dionysus
Dionysus
>>>>>>> > that even a
>>>>>>> > modest medical bill can put
Okay, now insert fumb in mouf, put binky to ear, and let lower lip twemble
as eyes tear up.
Good little momma's boy.
Dionysus
>
>
>
>
Dionysus
>>>>>>>> bankruptcy laws have
>>>>>>>> produced legal standards that
>>>>>>>> are very similar to Canadian
>>>>>>>> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
>>>>>>>> 2009a; 2009b).
>>>>>>>> almost identically, so exposure
>>>>>>>> to drug costs is similar in both
>>>>>>>> countries. While the entire
>>>>>>>> Canadian population is
>>>>>>>> universally eligible for publicly
>>>>>>>> funded insurance for hospital
>>>>>>>> and physician services, only
>>>>>>>> about one-third of the
>>>>>>>> Canadian population is publicly
>>>>>>>> insured for prescription drugs.
>>>>>>>> In Canada, as in the US,
>>>>>>>> low-income people, disabled
>>>>>>>> populations, and seniors are
>>>>>>>> eligible for separate publicly
>>>>>>>> funded drug programs, while
>>>>>>>> most employed people obtain
>>>>>>>> drug insurance as a benefit of
>>>>>>>> employment, and the rest of
>>>>>>>> the population pays with their
>>>>>>>> own money.
>>>>>>>> employment insurance
>>>>>>>> programs that provide income
>>>>>>>> support in the event of job
>>>>>>>> loss (US Department of Labor,
>>>>>>>> 2004; Service Canada, 2009).
>>>>>>>> Unemployment occurs with
>>>>>>>> roughly similar frequency
>>>>>>>> among Canadians and
>>>>>>>> Americans. National
>>>>>>>> unemployment rates in 2007
>>>>>>>> were 5.3 percent in Canada
>>>>>>>> versus 4.6 percent in the
>>>>>>>> United States (Statistics
>>>>>>>> Canada, 2009b).
>>>>> Health care is only one component of "quality of life"
>>>>>
>>>>> I do know, however, that Canadian visitors to Florida cut their trips
>>>>> short so as not to lose the residency requirement for Canadian health
>>>>> care.
>>>> ***********
>>>> Ah, yes, the "snowbirds." Leave their frigid country for six months
>>>> every year, then hightail it back to suck on the commonweal's teat, cuz
>>>> that's all they know. You really think that's a paradigm worth
>>>> emulating?
>>>
>>> There must be something good to go back for that they can't get
>>> here...UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE
>> *************
>> No, call it what it is: You and your ill ilk sucking at the USA taxpayer
>> teat. When ya gonna demand universal food, universal clothing, universal
>> etc, etc, etc!!! Grow up. Be a man.
>>
>> Dionysus
>
> You are lucky that you will never face an adversity that is not of your
> making where you are desperate for help.
>
> Not everyone is so fortunate.
>
> Think about some of the veterans who are discharged as disabled and have
> no family or home to go back to.
>
> These guys and gals had the service as their only home...they are cut
> loose and end up on the streets....well, at least they have that
> government VA health care...even if they have no home.
Whew, you do stretch it, don't you. Mournful violins, please.
Dionysus
>
>
>
>
>
Michael Coburn
Sid9
The refutation is false and his been answered by the
originating group
Sid9
>>>>>>>> > that even a
>>>>>>>> > modest medical bill can put
Your reply speaks for itself!
Sid9
>>>>>>>>> bankruptcy laws have
>>>>>>>>> produced legal standards that
>>>>>>>>> are very similar to Canadian
>>>>>>>>> standards (BankruptcyCanada,
>>>>>>>>> 2009a; 2009b).
>>>>>>>>> almost identically, so exposure
>>>>>>>>> to drug costs is similar in both
>>>>>>>>> countries. While the entire
>>>>>>>>> Canadian population is
>>>>>>>>> universally eligible for publicly
>>>>>>>>> funded insurance for hospital
>>>>>>>>> and physician services, only
>>>>>>>>> about one-third of the
>>>>>>>>> Canadian population is publicly
>>>>>>>>> insured for prescription drugs.
>>>>>>>>> In Canada, as in the US,
>>>>>>>>> low-income people, disabled
>>>>>>>>> populations, and seniors are
>>>>>>>>> eligible for separate publicly
>>>>>>>>> funded drug programs, while
>>>>>>>>> most employed people obtain
>>>>>>>>> drug insurance as a benefit of
>>>>>>>>> employment, and the rest of
>>>>>>>>> the population pays with their
>>>>>>>>> own money.
>>>>>>>>> employment insurance
>>>>>>>>> programs that provide income
>>>>>>>>> support in the event of job
>>>>>>>>> loss (US Department of Labor,
>>>>>>>>> 2004; Service Canada, 2009).
>>>>>>>>> Unemployment occurs with
>>>>>>>>> roughly similar frequency
>>>>>>>>> among Canadians and
>>>>>>>>> Americans. National
>>>>>>>>> unemployment rates in 2007
>>>>>>>>> were 5.3 percent in Canada
>>>>>>>>> versus 4.6 percent in the
>>>>>>>>> United States (Statistics
>>>>>>>>> Canada, 2009b).
You need only look around near a VA hospital.
Dionysus
>>>>>>>>> > that even a
>>>>>>>>> > modest medical bill can put
************
And your capitulation to superior intellect is complete. Good little momma's
boy that you are.
Dionysus
>
>
Sid9
>>>>>>>>>> > that even a
>>>>>>>>>> > modest medical bill can put
You're Too Dumb To Know How Dumb You Are.
Dionysus
>>>>>>>>>>> > that even a
>>>>>>>>>>> > modest medical bill can put
Heh, heh, heh, you are so-o-o easy. So whiny, too. Bet you were always
picked last, weren't ya!
Dionysus
>
>
Michael Coburn
> "Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:h3811s$o3i$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Dionysus" <no.sur...@never.net> wrote in message
>> news:kY6dnUOSEv1p-MrX...@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:h364ma$qvl$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> "Dionysus" <no.sur...@never.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:HKqdnbiWA7G9HsvX...@giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:h35l0e$hp7$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Dionysus" <no.sur...@never.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:TYmdnXCJBbKn08vX...@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:h35hcf$oe1$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Dionysus" <no.sur...@never.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:I9Cdnc7YBbtlosvX...@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:h35dmn$ubq$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Dionysus" <no.sur...@never.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:7e2dne7KnPdUiMvX...@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "jane" <jane....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:b046741e-d14e-47bb-810f-
a5bf97...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> > “Today, families are carrying so much more consumer debt
>>>>>>>>>>>> > that even a
>>>>>>>>>>>> > modest medical bill can put
>>>>>>>>>>>> > them over the edge financially.”
>>>>>>>>>> die as long as their bottom line is OK. If that’s the kind of
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/25/2/w84
Never attribute stupidity to the purposeful acts of liars.
Sid9
Nice article!
The "deniers" will not read it and will continue to spout
their lies