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Elie Wiesel slams tea partiers over Holocaust signs

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Harry Hope

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Nov 7, 2009, 8:35:35 AM11/7/09

From Salon, 11/6/09:
http://www.salon.com/news/tea_parties/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2009/11/06/wiesel

Wiesel slams tea partiers over Holocaust signs

The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right
are making to genocide

By Alex Koppelman

Unfortunately, it seems that whether it's on the Internet or in real
life, Godwin's Law always finds a way to prove itself again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

People manage to use Nazi and Holocaust references in the most poorly
considered of ways, as if they're unaware of the true horror that was
the slaughter of millions of innocent people.

That sort of thing has been happening all too frequently during
protests against Democratic healthcare reform plans, and one of the
more shocking examples was on display at the protest on Capitol Hill
Thursday: A banner that featured a picture of naked, emaciated bodies
stacked in a pile, with text reading, "National Socialist Health Care:
Dachau, Germany -- 1945."
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/1.jpg

Now, someone with credibility on the issue that's all too real has
spoken out against these comparisons.

Elie Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor and author, put out a statement
through his foundation's Twitter account.

It reads simply, "Elie Wiesel on the GOP Tea Party's anti-Semitism and
Holocaust comparisons: 'This kind of political hatred is indecent and
disgusting.'"

_______________________________________________________

There must be people who remember World War II and the Holocaust who
can help us get out of this rut.

Martin Scorsese

Harry

Fred B. Brown

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Nov 7, 2009, 9:04:01 AM11/7/09

"Harry Hope" <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:5ttaf51k2jv9d3l8r...@4ax.com...

Don't be fooled, there were a lot of Jews protesting ObamaCare in Washington
and around the country. The Dumbocrats are just playing the Hate Speech
card.

The Christ

unread,

Nov 7, 2009, 9:19:49 AM11/7/09

Wiesel is a liar.

Wiesel: "In Buchenwald they sent 10,000 persons to their deaths each
day. I was always in the last hundred near the gate. They stopped.
Why?"
- "Author, Teacher, Witness," Time magazine, March 18, 1985, p. 79.

According to a booklet obtained from the Buchenwald Memorial Site,
which was written by Sabine and Harry Stein, "A total of 11,000 Jews
lost their lives in Buchenwald. Out of the 13,969 inmates who died in
1945, there were 7,000 Jews."

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Buchenwald/DeathStatistics.html

Wiesel reports that at Auschwitz there was one flaming ditch for the
adults and another one for babies. He writes:

"Not far from us, flames were leaping from a ditch, gigantic flames.
They were burning something. A lorry drew up at the pit and delivered
its load -- little children. Babies! Yes, I saw it -- saw it with my
own eyes ... Those children in the flames."

He does indeed say that the Germans executed Jews by fire; by
throwing
them alive into flaming ditches

A little farther on there was another ditch with gigantic flames
where
the victims suffered "slow agony in the flames." Wiesel's column was
led by the Germans to within "three steps" of the ditch, then to "two
steps." "Two steps from the pit we were ordered to turn to the left
and made to go into a barracks."

Night (Avon/Discus). See esp. pp. 41, 42, 43, 44, 79, 93.

Today there is no longer a single historian who believes that Jews
were burned alive.

Regarding Babi Yar, a place in Ukraine where the Germans executed
Soviet citizens, among them Jews, Wiesel wrote:

"Later, I learn from a witness that, for month after month, the
ground
never stopped trembling; and that, from time to time, geysers of
blood
spurted from it." - Paroles d'étranger (Editions du Seuil, 1982), p.
86

The ground trembled?? Blood geysers?? How the fuck can people believe
bullshit like that???

The booklet written by Sabine and Harry Stein, which was available
from the Memorial Site in 1999, states that, in addition to the
number
of recorded deaths at Buchenwald, "More than 8,000 Soviet prisoners
of
war were shot in the stable. An estimated number of 1,100 people were
executed in the crematorium and an estimated number of between 12,000
and 15,000 people were dead upon arrival from the camps in the east
or
fell victim to the evacuation marches. This gives a total number of
approximately 56,000 persons killed."

The first U.S. Army Intelligence report, dated April 24, 1945, put
the
Buchenwald death toll at 32,705.

Conspicuously absent in the Buchenwald museum in was any evidence of
the atrocities that were so widely publicized after the camp was
liberated.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Buchenwald/DeathStatistics.html

The International Tracing Service of Arolsen, an affiliate of the Red
Cross, released a report in 1984 which said that the number of
documented deaths in Buchenwald was 20,671

The horrendous death toll during the first two months of 1945 was due
to a typhus epidemic in the camp. During the same time period, there
were also severe epidemics in all the other major concentration camps
in Germany.

Typhus is spread by lice and prisoners coming into Germany from the
death camps in what is now Poland were the carriers of the lice. The
worst epidemic of all was at Bergen-Belsen where 35,000 prisoners
died
in March and the first two weeks of April 1945.

mose

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Nov 7, 2009, 9:36:13 AM11/7/09

LETS EXAMINE BS THEN

Yes, only a radical Jew, full of self-delusion and perverse
"specialness" could turn a commentary about the plummeting birthrates
of Germans and all European peoples into a chance to beat the drums of
his own persecution, as if World War II is only a footnote when
compared to the fairy tale holy writ that is the "Holocaust" story,
bent and stretched and fashioned Hollywood-style by the liar Elie
Wiesel until it resembles more an Old Testament plague than anything
that could have actually occurred in the real world, where the rules
of science still apply.

There is no evidence whatsoever to prop up the story of "gas chambers"
that this Jew whinnies and crows about, but there is ample and
irrefutable evidence proving that politically organized Jews do hate
white European peoples and have been the architects of the policies
now used to bring about our genocide. There is no smoking gun when it
comes to the "Holocaust" but there are a multitude of smoldering
weapons and lots of gun powder residue revealing the ethnicity of the
tribe of people who have a long history of hatred for white people,
Aryan people, if I may be so bold. They, the radical Jews, do, without
a doubt, stand to benefit from our extinction.

===================================

Sept 15, 2007

Eva Herman, David Duke and Thus Speaketh Grimm

By Patrick Grimm

Eva Herman is an attractive blonde-haired, blue-eyed Aryan-looking (Oi
vey! The Jewish horrors!) talk show host who has lost her job in the
last few days for merely bringing up the fact that the National
Socialist government under Adolf Hitler encouraged German motherhood
through social policy and economic incentives, something that these
media Jews hate, almost as much as they hate Jesus Christ and not
flying in first class. Herman was quoted as stating in Der Spiegel
magazine that "It was a gruesome time with a totally crazy and highly
dangerous leader who led the Germans into ruin as we all know. But
there was at the time also something good, and that is the values,
that is the children, that is the families, that is a togetherness -
it was all abolished, there was nothing left." [1]

First off, what other country's citizens would be forced by the
proprieties of the Jewish media powers-that-be to qualify any
statement about a past leader of their nation the Jews don't like by
referring to him as "totally crazy and highly dangerous"? After all,
in the former Soviet Union, past Communist leaders such as Stalin and
Lenin, who were accused of far greater excesses than Hitler, are often
referred to with fondness by those citizens burned by the present
economic realities of Jewish oligarchic power and the greatest
plundering of a nation in history.

Right off the bat, we see that the Jews determine the rules of the
dialectic, and history and memory will both be savaged to serve their
interests. The fact that Hitler revived the economy of Germany after
pulling down the Jewish banking powers and bypassing them completely
through bartering with other countries can never be praised. Why?
Because the Jews didn't like Hitler and Jewish lives are infinitely
valuable. Even Gentile lives expended saving Jews or protecting them,
are footnotes, scribblings in the margins of historiography.

David Duke discussed this little brouhaha in his most recent
commentary. As is often the case, Dr. Duke puts things succinctly into
perspective: "People sometimes ask why I so frequently bring up the
Jewish extremist issue in almost every discussion. The Spiegel article
shows how they themselves constantly use this issue to make Europeans
feel guilty about our desire for our own survival. Spiegel quotes a
`Holocaust survivor' who said that Herman's comments were, `The worst
thing I have heard for a long time.' Somehow, `gas chambers' are
inserted to an article about the need to strengthen the European
family and increase the European birthrate.

I do believe that hearing about European concern for survival of the
European people is the worst thing that this extremist Jew has heard
in a long time. Unlike the Jewish extremists, though, we here at
DavidDuke.com are not hypocrites. We believe that Jews have a right to
preserve their people, but we also believe that so do we! How ironic
that extremist Jews support the terrorist, Apartheid State of Israel,
and yet constantly condemn Europeans who simply want the survival of
the European people and civilization? The media constantly support the
idea of a Jewish State for the Jewish people, but condemn the idea of
a German State for the German people and they would condemn even a
European Union for the European people!" [2]

But Eva Herman is the sacrificial lamb, albeit a pretty one, an
example made and a human media message sent to other whites who dare
to leave the corner of fearfulness and silence that we have been
painted into by those Jews holding the rollers and brushes. Germany,
like most of the European world, lives under punishing Jewish
Bolshevik rule, their thwarted and compromised media even more firmly
"locked-down" than it was before World War II, their free speech
silenced and their rights as citizens given over to Jewish tyrants.
Instead of the positive economic incentives of a National Socialist
government, pushing motherhood, stable families and a strong economy
free of Jewish avarice, the education system works to dissolve German
families and failing that, to pervert and sicken them.

In an article entitled "German Government Publication Promotes
Incestuous Pedophilia as Healthy Sex Ed" John-Henry Westen writes:

"Booklets from a subsidiary of the German government's Ministry for
Family Affairs encourage parents to sexually massage their children as
young as 1 to 3 years of age. Two 40-page booklets entitled "Love,
Body and Playing Doctor" by the German Federal Health Education Center
(Bundeszentrale f�r gesundheitliche Aufkl�rung - BZgA) are aimed at
parents - the first addressing children from 1-3 and the other
children from 4-6 years of age.

"Fathers do not devote enough attention to the clitoris and vagina of
their daughters. Their caresses too seldom pertain to these regions,
while this is the only way the girls can develop a sense of pride in
their sex," reads the booklet regarding 1-3 year olds. The authors
rationalize, "The child touches all parts of their father's body,
sometimes arousing him. The father should do the same." [3]

Hmmm, it would seem that any observant individual who sees the world-
wide pattern of Jewish behavior can probably hazard a guess as to the
ethnic identity of the authors of these "helpful" little sex ed
manuals provided to German parents. Yep, back in the Weimar Republic,
you don't know how unlucky you are! But be that as it may, these
manuals make one thing as clear as a bell. The Jewish supremacists
hate white people. Gas chambers are portrayed as a ghastly genocidal
crime against humanity, but dysfunctional and disintegrated European
families, evaporated white genotypes and the "death of whiteness" are
pleasurable eventualities, savory scenarios to the powers of
international Zionism. They believe that our race is the only bulwark
against their complete domination of the globe and they are right. We
can stop them if we can only survive, only reproduce. Thus speaketh
Grimm, "we must do so."

Eva Herman is another victim of the Jews. Why was she chosen to be
served up bloodlessly, though blatantly, on the altar of media
sacrifice? That's simple. She is a rarity in Europe, an enlightened,
racially aware and traditionalist white woman, fully cognizant of what
is necessary to save the German people (and all European people) from
the quandary they are in because of low birth rates and the havoc
wreaked by a media and establishment with alien and incompatibly
exotic values and folkways. Herman is an anomaly in a media cowed and
docile before the Jewish ideology of multiculturalism, or more
accurately, multiracialism. This ideology is having the desired effect
on both Europe and America. It is sparking fragmentation, is leading
to displacement and finally will end with replacement. To have any
person speak against it will only unite and dynamize the masses, who
are firmly opposed to these Jewish-instigated policies.

David Duke said in his article that he is often asked why he so
frequently brings up the "Jewish extremist issue" when discussing the
crisis of European mankind. I am often asked the same thing, even by
friends who basically agree with me. It's an apt question and one
answered in full by the preposterous firing of Eva Herman. So many of
us "bring up" Jewish extremism because it is the biggest obstacle to
the liberation of Europeans and European-Americans. Our freedom will
never be bought with silence. It will only be secured when this
sinister and deleterious power is lifted from our governments, our
media, our families and our throats.

[1] http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,504790,00.html

[2]
http://www.davidduke.com/general/motherhood-crusader-fired-from-german-television_2745.html#more-2745

[3] http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07073008.html

In article <1189752111.5...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
r9htz...@mangusta.e4ward.com says...
>
>
> A chapter taken from When Victims Rule: A Critique of
> Jewish Pre-Eminence in America
>
> Chapter 11
> THE JEWISH COSMOLOGY OF VICTIMHOOD (Part 1)
>
> "I have frequently had hotheaded romantics assume that our family fled
> Russia to escape persecution. They seem to think that the only way we
> got out was by jumping from ice flow to ice floe across the Dnieper
> River, with bloodhoods and the entire Red Army in hot pursuit. No such
> thing. We were not persecuted and we left in a quite legal manner with
> no more trouble than one would expect from any bureaucracy, including
> our own. If that's disappointing, so be it." Isaac Asimov, I. Asimov.
> A Memoir. 1994, p. 19
>
> Ask any non-Jewish American what his or her personal link is to the
> Roman era, the Dark Ages, the Middle Ages, and other epics of human
> history and he will tell you: nothing. He knows nothing about it. And
> he doesn't care. For such a late twentieth century American to reflect
> on his own roots back to, say, medievalism, is to look with the naked
> eye for Mars: it is a vague dot, reputed by others to exist, in the
> remotest distance. Indistinct. Unfathomable. Something eternally
> elusive, lost forever.

yeah and that explains alot about united states citizens' insanity.

> Few Americans can trace their family history more than a few
> generations, if that. Throughout anyone's own ancestral lineage,
> however, going back deeply into time, there obviously exists their own
> share of participants -- as both perpetrators and victims -- in great
> and minor wars, massacres, invasions, famines, epidemics, and other
> disasters of every kind. Presuming five procreative generations per
> century, exponentially, any human being alive today can theoretically
> claim direct genetic lineage to over a thousand ancestors back to
> 1800, over 37,000 people to 1700, over a million back to the year
> 1600, and over a staggering billion human beings back to 1400 (thirty
> generations). Whatever the mathematically realistic number, (and
> Jewish history claims 4,000 years) the deeper we go back into history,
> the more we must consider the veritable Milky Way of humanity that
> preceded us in direct ancestral lineage; people of every imaginable
> sort, and they all knew well the melancholic chords of human
> suffering, sometimes subtly, sometimes brutally. Every single one of
> them.
>
> Today's Americans of French, British, Italian or other European
> descent find themselves today lumped together in the generic "white"
> American community. Their respective ancestries are stirred together,
> gone. Their European origins mean little to them; they are homogenized
> in the New World, their identities now expressed -- for better or
> worse -- in the icons of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Billy the
> Kid, Babe Ruth, the hallowed Constitution, even McDonald's hamburgers,
> or other superficial national icons that ancestrally have nothing
> directly to do with them.

i once had a chat with two americans in an online game. they explained
to me that "america" is much scarier than we foreigners realize. To sum
it up they said it is like a horror movie hidden under disneyland.

> The typical American's alienation, disinterest, and lack of connection
> to distant history is not characteristic of modern Jews. On the
> contrary. A stone thrown in spite through a Jewish window in Italy in
> the fourteenth century is a stone thrown into Jewish hearts today. The
> actions against Jews by desperate thugs in Poland in the eighteenth
> century are dumped on Gentile doorsteps in our time by Jews who are
> still grieving, still embittered, still seeking redress. And when we
> turn, in more recent history, to the bestial deeds of Adolf Hitler to
> conquer the world, we find that Jews have pulled tightly in a circle
> to proclaim that everything sinister in the whole world malevolently
> labors against them, and them only.
>
> Ultimately, it is a central article of modern Jewish faith --
> reflecting both secular and religious attitudes, formed and hardened
> over the ages -- that to be Jewish is to be always maltreated for
> innocence by others. Or, perhaps more correctly to Jewish eyes, as
> part of this innocence, being Jewish is to be a victim for the crime
> of being superior to their persecutors. This claim to superiority was
> originally religiously based, as God's "Chosen People" of Old
> Testament tradition. And this Jewish preoccupation -- as being victims
> of their self-presumed superiority -- has been passed down,
> religiously, over the ages (traditionally epitomized in Jewish
> pilgrimage to Jerusalem's Wailing Wall to bemoan their communal fate,
> manifest also in the likes of the volume Sefer Yosifon, anonymously
> compiled in the tenth century as a litany of Jewish complaints and
> miseries). In the aftermath of Hitler's atrocities against Jews during
> World War II, this world-view has come to define, more tightly than
> any other aspect of Jewish tradition -- and now highly politicized --
> modern Jewish self-identity.
>
> But is this true? From the evidence we have already seen, are Jews
> correctly depicted as history's consummate, incomparable, and innocent
> victims? Have Jews pre-eminently and collectively suffered more than
> all other human beings, "victims of centuries of persecution and
> bigotry?" [UROFSKY, M., 1978, p. 378] And for no reason?
>
> Here's a typical view of the Eastern European Jewish past, by Judith
> Arcana, who discusses the roots of Jewish American poet Grace Paley's
> family to the Jews of Russia: "One of Isaac's brothers, Russya, was
> killed in a workers demonstration in 1905 ... In the wake of that
> death, probably spurred by the retaliatory wave of pogroms, the family
> decided to leave Russia. Knowing the unpredictability of royal whim,
> Natasha Gutseit, Isaac's widowed mother, sent the young couple to
> America before the czar could change his mind and snatch them back
> again." [ARCANA, J., 1993, p. 10] Here Arcana, who omits the relevance
> of Jewish socialist agitation in Russia as a factor in their
> "persecution" [Elsewhere she notes that even both Paley's parents were
> socialists, enemies of the Tsarist regime -- p. 9], speculates that
> the Russian czar would have interest in "snatching" Jews back to
> Russia.
>
> In the American context, "one commonly finds a sentence like this in
> many [Jewish] books or articles," says Joshua Rothenberg, "... 'Jews
> came to the shores of this country from the ghettos of the shtetlekh
> [Eastern European Jewish villages] as a result of the pogroms.' Each
> phrase in this sentence is untrue or oversimplified to the point of
> untruth. There were no ghettos in 19th century Eastern Europe (except
> in the metaphysical sense) ... And the pogroms were not the principal
> reason for emigration: proportionately more Jews came to the United
> States from Austrian-ruled Galicia -- where there were no pogroms --
> than from Tsarist Russia." [ROTHENBERG, p. 3]
>
> "It has been discovered," says Henry Feingold, "that religious
> persecution, even its physical manifestations of pogroms, rarely
> furnishes sufficient impetus for Jews to uproot themselves. Moreover,
> it cannot account for the thousands of Jews who chose to leave areas
> relatively free of religious persecution ... [FEINGOLD, p. 60] ...
> Historians have taken a closer look at the early acculturation process
> and have discovered that the highly touted ability of the Jewish
> family to withstand the stresses of transplantation have been
> overstated. New studies on Jewish vice and crime and criminality and
> the discovery of a relatively high divorce and desertion rate among
> immigrant Jews present a picture of a community paying a dear price
> for establishing itself." [FEINGOLD, p. 61]
>
> "The lachrymorose recollection of the shtetl, which are still with
> us," says Daniel Bell, "fail to recall its narrowness of mind, its
> cruelty, especially to schoolchildren (to whom a whole series of
> memoirs, such as Solomon Ben Maimon's, testify), and its invidious
> stratification." [BELL, Reflections, p. 318] Little remembered is this
> oppression of Jews by Jews. "Prior to World War I," adds Rothenburg,
> "the Kehilah [Jewish governing bodies] were ruled, in most cases, by
> an oligarchy of the rich and the [Jewish] clergy. Their excesses,
> especially in the area of indirect taxation (kosher meat, etc.) and
> the silencing of the protesting voices of the poor, are well-known and
> documented. The Kehilahs remained a source of bitter complaint for the
> majority of the Jewish population, which had no say in the conduct of
> their own community affairs." [ROTHENBURG, p. 5]
>
> continued
> http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/09/chapter-11-jewish-cosmology-of.html
>
>

continuing:

...American Jews today hold dear many nostalgic "Fiddler on the Roof"-
type myths about their Eastern European ancestors. As, however, Jewish
author Ivan Kalmar notes

"A stalwart Jewish peasant, with a native wit and a naive religiosity,
ever sturdy in the face of unending adversity, he is the epitome of
Jewish nostalgia ... The Fiddler is so much part of the way we
think of our Jewish background ... The Fiddler image has some
basis in reality, but it is also very much part of a nostalgic
reconstruction of our past, an example of what anthropologists
call 'invention of tradition' ... Jewish authors [like Sholem
Aleichem, creator of Fiddler on the Roof] tried to create
stereotypes of the Jews that would identity them with less
wealthy groups who were looked at more favourably by the
greater society. Sholom Aleichem's Tevye [hero of Fiddler
on the Roof] is very much a Ukrainian peasant. To counter
the idea of the Jew as a 'parasite,' Sholom Aleichem presents
Tevye as a dairy farmer, who sells not the Gentile peasant's
products but his own. North American Jews have
enthusiastically accepted the validity of Sholom Aleichem's
Tevye as a metaphor for the Eastern European Jew of old ...
Where finally Tevye finally shows unique character, he
turns out to be a modern Jew. Where he is being a 'typical,'
folksy, traditional East European Jew, he resembles the
romanticized Ukrainian peasant ... Of course, there were
in reality Jewish peasants like Tevye, but compared to the
Slavs, the percentage of Jews who farmed was miniscule."
[KALMER, I., quoted by PRYTULAK, L., UKRAINIAN
ARCHIVES]

"Having ... turned their backs on Poland," notes Jewish scholar Victor
Seidler about modern Jewish perceptions of Eastern European heritage,
"it can be difficult for the second generation [of Jews in America] to
recognize just how Polish their parents were. Things we learned to think
of as 'Jewish' turn out to be Polish." [SEIDLER, V.J., 2000, p. 74]
"Indeed," notes George Mosse, "when the first German-Jewish painter,
Mortiz Oppenheim, painted scenes from the ghetto shortly after
emancipation, it was transformed, as we have seen, into a community
permeated with German middle-class values." [MOSSE, G., 1985, p. 80]

Jewish author Howard Jacobson notes Jewish historic myth-making at an
exhibition of photographs of Eastern European Jews at the University of
Judaism in Los Angeles. Particularly troubling to him was the depiction
of the stereotypically "studious Jew":

"Something is wrong with this exhibition. Something is wrong with
the way we modern Jews idealize a past we wouldn't touch with a
barge-pole if it were offered us again ... Why is Jewish study always
made to look so soulful in these sorts of photographs, so unrelieved,
so unvarious, so fucking miserable and desolating? What is it about
Jewish books that make absorption in them such an invariably
heart-rendering business? What a sell! How have the Jews done it,
how have we persuaded ourselves, but gentiles as well, that anguish
and lamentation and self-abnegation and bodilessness and pathos
attach inalterably and exclusively to our studies? You don't see
[St. Thomas] Aquinas looking into a book like that." [JACOBSON, H.,
1995, p. 192-193]

The distinguished Jewish historian, Salo Baron, of Columbia University,
whose twelve-volume Social and Religious History of the Jews is the most
extensive Jewish history by a single author in existence, argued a view
that, post-Holocaust, has been swept to the wayside by modern Jewish
discourse. His view was that Jewish suffering in the European Middle
Ages, and throughout history, has been exaggerated. That is, that the
Jews of Europe, as a group, in comparison to their Christian neighbors,
actually had a better life in the Middle Ages, to the 20th century. For
all the claims of massacres and pogroms, according to surviving
documents, the Jewish population actually grew more rapidly than the
Gentiles around them. [LIBERLES, p. 42] This accelerated in later
centuries. "The two and a half centuries from 1660 to 1914," says Baron,
"the Jewish population grew numerically some fifteen times ... while
mankind at-large increased by only 250 per cent, Europe by 350 per cent
..." [BARON, H and J.H., p. 50] This thesis, addressing later years, is
supported by a non-Jewish scholar of the Ukraine, Orest Subtleny:

"Throughout the nineteenth century, especially in its latter part, the
Jews experienced a tremendous population rise. Between 1820 and
1880, while the general population of the [Russian] empire rose by
87%, the number of Jews increased by 150%. On the Right Bank,
this rise was even more dramatic: between 1844 and 1913 the number
of its inhabitants rose by 265% while the Jewish population increased
by 844%! Religious sanctions of large families, less exposure to
famines, war, and epidemics, and a low mortality rate because of
communal self-help and the availability of doctors largely accounted
for this extraordinary increase." [SUBTLENY, p. 276]

Salo Baron argued that his people, the Jews, were so privileged,
relative to non-Jews throughout the European Middle Ages, that with the
coming of the Enlightenment era "emancipation" and "equality" amounted
to "a net loss [to Jews] in status and lifestyle." [SCHORSCH, p. 383]
Elsewhere, he wrote that "it is likely ... that even the average
medieval Jew, compared to his average Christian contemporary ... was the
less unhappy and destitute creature -- less unhappy and destitute not
only by his own consciousness, but even if measured by such objective
criteria as standards of living, cultural amenities, and protection
against individual starvation and disease." [LINDEMANN, Esau's, p. 11]

"Throughout the Middle Ages," notes David Biale, "the Jews enjoyed
considerable influence in many of the lands in which they lived ... In
addition to their interest Court politics, these Jews participated in
political life in defense of Jewish interests." [BIALE, POWER p. 69]
"The situation of the Jews in the first half of the Middle Ages," says
Abram Leon, "was ... extremely favorable. The Jews were considered as
being a part of the upper classes in society and their juridicial
position was not perceptibly different from that of the nobility."
[LEON, p. 128] "At least some of the Jewish dress of the Middle Ages,"
adds Biale, "such as the Jewish hat, originated out of choice rather
than compulsion ... The yellow patch [worn by Jews] ... was not
originally intended as an instrument for segregating and humiliating the
Jews ... but to proclaim publicly that its wearer enjoyed official
protection." [BIALE, POWER, p. 67]

One of the privileges Jews enjoyed throughout Europe until relatively
modern history was that they didn't have to serve in the local military
organizations. "During the continuous wars of the sixteenth,
seventeenth, and eighteenth centuries," wrote Baron, " ... the Jews were
neutral and suffered few losses. If they had been combatants they might
have lost more than in all the pogroms." [LIBERLES, p. 42] Yet Medieval
Jews were allowed the extremely significant privilege of carrying
weapons, a privilege equal to knights and one to which all commoners
(the overwhelming majority of the population) were forbidden. [GOLDBERG,
p. 123] Baron also noted that, while there were certainly Jews who
suffered poverty, the surrounding Christian population was worse off.
And if the Jewish ghettos were, as widely claimed, abject holes of
enforced degradation, "is it not remarkable that the most typical Ghetto
in the world, the Frankfurt Judengasse, produced in the pre-Emancipation
period the greatest banking house in history?" [LIBERLES p. 45]

"The Jews," says Israel Shahak,

"in spite of all the persecution to which they were subjected, formed
an integral part of the privileged classes ... Jewish historiography,
especially in English, is misleading on this point inasmuch as it tends
to focus on Jewish poverty and anti-Jewish discrimination ... The
poorest Jewish craftsman, peddlar, landlord's steward, or petty cleric
was immeasurably better off than a serf [most of the non-Jewish
population]. This was especially true in those European countries
where serfdom persisted until the nineteenth century, whether in a
partial or extreme form: Prussia, Austria (including Hungary), Poland,
and the Polan lands taken by Russia. And it is not without significance
that, prior to the beginning of the great Jewish migration of modern
times (around 1889), a large majority of all Jews were living in those
areas and that their most important social function there was to
mediate the oppression of peasants on behalf of the nobility and
the Crown." [SHAHAK, p. 52-53]

Jews in Eastern Europe understood the people around them as,
categorically, persecutors. And "the Jews saw their persecutors as an
inferior race," noted World Zionist Organization President Nahum
Goldmann, "Most of my [physician] grandfather's patients [in Lithuania]
were peasants. Every Jew felt ten or a hundred times the superior of
these lowly tillers of the soil; he was cultured, learned Hebrew, knew
the Bible, studied the Talmud -- in other words he knew that he stood
head and shoulders above these illiterates." [GOLDMANN, 1978, p. 13]

"It would never have occurred to us," said one Jewish immigrant to the
United States, "that the Gentile world [in Eastern Europe] was happier
... On the contrary, we considered our world happier and finer." "We
thought they were unfortunate," says another, "We were above them, this
was the feeling [towards peasants]." [MORAWSKA, p. 17] In the face of
the commonly cherished belief among modern Jews that their brethren of
Eastern Europe were terribly and uniformly impoverished, it is a fact
that Jews were doing so well (relative to the non-Jews around them) that
non-Jewish servants in Jewish households were common.

Apart from racist folk tales, Zborowski and Herzog note that most Jewish
children in Eastern Europe learned fragments of the surrounding non-
Jewish culture via the Gentile servants in their homes. "These
impressions [of non-Jewish life]," the scholars write, "[were] available
not only to the children of the rich, for [Jewish] women of modest
circumstances who worked in a store or at the market often had the help
of a [non-Jewish] peasant girl in the house." [ZBOROWSKI, p. 155]
"[Jewish life] was certainly better than the life of the Russian
peasant," remarks Howard Sachar. [SACHAR, p. 215]

"We were luckier than most of our fellow-Jews in being able to afford
'servants,' if that is the real name for them," declares Chaim Weizmann,
an immigrant from the "Pale" of Russia, an agitator for how bad Jews had
it in his place of birth, and the first president of modern Israel, "...
[My second servant] who outlived the first and was with us for something
like thirty-five years, was a lovable peasant by the name of Yakim ...
He had learned to sing, after a fashion, the Jewish national anthem,
Hatikvah; and in moments of enthusiasm would cry out: 'Come, little
ones, let us sing Tikvah!'" [WEIZMAN, C., 1949, p. 22]

Elsewhere, Weizman adds:

"The teachers and governing authorities of the schools within the Pale
[an area of Russia] were typical Russian officials, and as such, not
free from corruption. So the rich Jew would use his gold to pave the way
for his boy to enter the school ... There were occasions when a rich Jew
would hire ten non-Jewish candidates (at times rather oddly selected) to
sit for the entrance examination at the local school, and thus make room
for one Jewish pupil -- needless to say his own son or a protege."
[WEIZMAN, C., 1949, p. 31]

"Even when the Jewish common people were known to be desperately poor,"
adds Albert Lindemann, "as in Austrian Galicia or parts of the Jewish
Pale of Settlement in tsarist Russia, their overall per capita wealth
still seems to have been greater than that of non-Jews, mostly peasants,
among whom they lived." [LINDEMANN, Esau's, p. 21] "On the whole," says
sociologist Stephen Steinberg, "Eastern European Jews [prior to
immigration to America in the late nineteenth century] were
unquestionably poor, though decidedly better off than the surrounding
peasant population." [STEINBERG, p. 97]

What, one wonders, is to be read between this relativity of being
"poor?" How poor could Jews have really been if they were "decidedly
better off" than the non-Jewish peasants (who were most of the Eastern
European population), even hiring Polish servants for their homes?

Another part of Jewish popular mythology is that the Jews were forced
against their will into ghettos in Europe. The widely-believed
accusation that Jews were forcibly segregated, particularly into
ghettos, is a distortion of historical fact. In the Middle Ages most
Christian towns themselves had walls, gates, and locks for protection
from outsiders. The enclosed Jewish ghetto was, in origin, a Jewish
construction, conceived for both protection and self-segregation from
the taint of non-Jewish ways.

"In the thirteenth century," writes Max Weinrich, "segregated living
quarters for Jews were made compulsory. The fact of the matter is that
separate Jewish streets had existed all along ... If the Jews lived
together long before segregated living quarters were imposed upon them,
then their segregation must have been voluntary. It was. Living apart,
no matter how bizarre it may appear in the light of present day concepts
and attitudes, was part of the 'privileges' accorded to the Jews in
conforming with their own wishes." [WEINRICH, p. 105]

As president Nachum Goldmann of the World Zionist Organization notes:

"It is wrong to say that the goyim forced the Jews to separate
themselves
themselves from other societies. When the Christians defined the
ghetto limits, Jews lived there already." [GOLDMANN, N., 1978, p. 66]

For centuries Jews isolated themselves from their surrounding non-Jewish
neighbors except, of course, for the necessities of commerce. "Had the
Jews not possessed a deep-rooted conviction of the truth of their
religion," says Jacob Katz, "and had they not actively sought to
maintain their separate identity, the tendencies inherent in medieval
conditions would inevitably have ended by breaking down the social
barrier erected by Jewish ritual." [KATZ, Ex, p. 40] "In Orthodox
Judaism," wrote anthropologist Maurice Fishberg in 1911, "a Jew must not
eat at the same table with a Gentile, nor any food prepared by the
latter; must not eat or drink from dishes, with spoons, forks, knives,
etc. which have been used by a Gentile; must not drink wine with the
container of which has been touched by a Christian, Mohammadan, or
heathen ... I know Jews to feel nauseated and even vomit when told that
the food they have consumed was not kosher. ... It was the intense
tribal spirit engendered by his religion which kept the Jew from
intimate contact with the Gentiles, more than the laws promulgated by
Christian states for the purpose." [FISHBERG, p. 536]

"We [Jews] formed the ghetto ourselves," wrote the Zionist leader
Vladamir Zabotinsky, " ... voluntarily, for the same reason for which
Europeans in Shanghai established their separate quarter, to be able to
live their own way." [KORBANSKI, p. 8] "The Ghetto was rather a
privilege than a disability," notes J. O. Hertzler, "and sometimes was
claimed by the Jews as a right when its demolition was threatened."
[HERTZLER, p. 73] Boas Evron cites the work of fellow Israeli scholar,
Yehezkel Kaufmann, in noting that

"the popular assumption that external anti-Jewish pressures forced
group identify and exclusivity on the Jews is unconvincing, since
historical evidence shows that Jewish exclusivity and aloofness
preceded outside hostility and were thus its cause, not its result ...
Jewish communities were always borne by host societies ... They
never shared in political, military, administrative, or technological
responsibilities." [EVRON, p. 53]

In articles in 1928 and 1932, Cecil Roth, one of the foremost Jewish
scholars of his day, set out to debunk the Jewish myths of incessant
persecution by non-Jews through the ages. "In the first place," wrote
Roth, ".... the Jew has always tended to regard as a martyr all persons
who died at Gentile hands ... even if he died in a drunken brawl ... All
those [Jews] who met a violent end, no matter under what circumstances,
were included under the head of martyrs in the Jewish popular
consciousness and recollection." [ROTH, Most, p. 136-137]

This martyr tradition and schema has even been outrageously used, quite
the same, with the identical religious base, in Orthodox Jewish
messianic political quarters in our own day. Baruch Goldberg, the
American-born Orthodox Israeli doctor who murdered 29 Arabs with an
automatic weapon this decade as they prayed in a Hebron mosque, and who
was subsequently beaten to death, was proclaimed by some Jews to be
kadosh. (This word is commonly translated as meaning "holy;" it also has
connotations meaning "separate" or "apart.") "A Jew who is killed
because he is a Jew," wrote Dov Leor (a rabbi for the messianic Gush
Emunim organization) about Goldberg's violent death, "must certainly be
called ... a holy martyr ... without investigating their previous
conduct." [LEOR, p. 61] "Baruch Goldstein was the greatest Jew alive,"
declared a Jerusalem teacher, Samuel Hacohen, "not in one way, but in
every way ... There are no innocent Arabs here, and thank God that one
Jewish hero reminded us that it had become almost legal to kill Jews in
the street. He is the only one who could do it, the only one who was 100
percent perfect. He was no crazy ... Killing isn't nice, but sometimes
it is very necessary." Rabbi Yaacov Perin also announced at Goldberg's
funeral that "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
[BROWNFELD, A., 3-99, p. 85]

A 1908 pamphlet, notes Cecil Roth, was widely circulated in the Jewish
community under the title, Jews Hanged or Burned Alive in Rome....
Because They Refused to Change Their Faith. Of the hanged Jews listed,
all but one were in fact executed for specific crimes, a harshness
rendered no differently to any other people of past eras. "This
instance," says Roth, "... is symptomatic of the attitude which Jewish
historiography has consistently adopted. Any popular attack or any
governmental persecution in which Jews were victims is set down outright
as an expression of anti-Semitic sentiment."

In another example, in 1278, on charges of money clipping [skimming gold
or silver content from coinage], 267 Jews were hanged in London. This
punishment was not merited out to Jews as Jews, but to those who were
disproportiontely "in possession of the greater amount of ready money."
Those who accumulated money in the Jewish money-lending and usury era
happened to be overwhelmingly Jews, but also included a lesser number of
Christian goldsmiths and such who were similarly arrested and executed.
"What seems at first blush," says Roth, "[to be] an act of sheer
persecution appears in a closer examination one of primitively sharp
justice." [ROTH, p. 137]

In the early years of Christianity, in Alexandria (of today's Egypt),
attacks upon Jews rendered in Jewish historical consciousness as acts of
anti-Semitism were really what Roth says today would be called "an
interracial riot." [ROTH, p. 138]

Roth underscored the precarious existence of all peoples' lives in the
Middle Ages:

"The modern reader frequently fails to realize that, generally speaking,
life in the Middle Ages was not secure. For every section of the
population the probabilities of meeting a violent death were high, even
in times of comparative peace. Country people were continually subject
to the onslaught of bandits or of lawless barons, as well as the
marchings and counter marchings of armed forces. [Even] city dwellers
... [ran] the risk of sack and wholesale murder. The whole of medieval,
and a great part of modern, history is studded with instance of the
sort:
the devastation of Attila, the Scourge of God; the ravaging of the Vexin
by William the Conqueror; the sack of a score of German cities during
the Thirty Years War. There were frequently cases when only a minority
of the population survived, the vast majority being piteously massacred.
These events and their like should be borne in mind when one considers
the vicissitudes of any particular racial or religious minority. The
scarlet
of Jewish persecution does not stand out on a ground of virginal white.
[ROTH, p. 138]

In medieval Poland, says Bernard Weinyrb, "In an epoch and a country
where most of the time people were in danger of attacks by Tatars and
Turks, of wars, soldiers, and robber gangs on the roads, insecurity
became the normal way of life for people who had never known anything
different." [WEINRYB, p. 159]

The miseries caused by the sack of Rome in 1527, Christian crusades
against Muslim-controlled Jerusalem in 1096, Leon in 1197, Malaga in
1487, Naples in 1494, Padua in 1509, Tunis in 1535, or "a hundred other
occasions" were at least equivalent tragedies to Jewish descriptions of
"Jewish martyrdom." [ROTH, p. 138]

"It is probably the fact," says Roth, "that in the course of the
medieval wars and disorders, the Jews normally suffered more than any
other section of the population. This was not necessarily, however,
because they were Jews, but simply because they belonged to the more
opulent class ... on the capture of a town (by an army), the first
objective of the assailants would naturally be the streets of the
goldsmiths and the street of the Jews." [ROTH, p. 139]

Likewise, Jews -- perceived as affluent and exploitive outsiders to
native populaces --suffered the same way at the hands of mobs as did
Italian traders in London in 1439 and 1455, and at the "Hansa
Steelyard" in 1494. Jews were also subject to random "acts of rapine,"
like any Christian -- or other community -- of the Middle Ages, as
happened in the Jewish part of Asolo, in northern Italy, in 1547.
Perpetrators in that case were punished by the central government.

While Jews were sometimes required to wear special badges of
identification in the European Middle Ages, it was a norm of
discrimination for the era. Muslims also had to wear such marks of
"outsider" distinction in Christian societies. Conversely, in the Muslim
world, Christian communities were also faced with such laws and
legislation of discrimination, sometimes even in clothing. And of course
Jewish law itself has various nomenclature and attendant rules for
treatment of various categories of non-Jews as second-class, or worse,
people. (Even in modern Israel, Arabs are discriminatorily noted as such
on national identity cards).

"Some current histories," said Roth in 1932, "appear to assume the Jews
were sole victims of the Spanish Inquisition ... Strictly, this is so
far from the truth that a precisian might retort that [the Jews] never
came under the [Inquisition's] scope, save in exceptional cases, since
the activities were essentially confined to [Christian] apostates and
renegades." [ROTH, p. 141] Those "Jews" who risked trouble were those
among the Marranos/Conversos, who disingenuously represented themselves
as Christians and were thereby subject to the same scrutinization for
religious conformance as that directed upon any other Christian. Widely
targeted were Christian heretics, not the Judaic faith. As M. Hirsh
Goldberg notes,

"Contrary to popular belief, Jews who openly remained Jews were
not tortured or killed as part of the inquisition proceedings. The
Inquisition was specifically authorized by the Church to root out
heresy among Catholics, so only heretical Christians and Jewish
converts to Christianity accused of secretly reverting to Judaism
were prosecuted." [GOLDBERG, M. H., 1979, p. 16] "[T]he Holy Inquistion
in Portugal," notes Arnold Wiznitzer, "did not persecute Jews who never
had been Catholics. Only persons of Jewish origin who had been born
Catholic, or those, born Jews and baptised later, who had deserted
Catholicism openly or secretly were subject to the Inquisition since
they were considered as being apostates." [WIZNITZER, A., 1957, p. 64]
"The Inquistion," notes Joachim Prinz, "is considered one of the many
traumatic experiences of Jewish history, and as such, it is always
spoken of with dread. But, of course, the Inquistion had no power over
Jews at all. It was established for the purpose of dealing with
Christians who had deviated from their faith. The Marranos who were
called into account for their secret practices appeared not as Jews but
as allegedly heretical Chrisitans ... No unconverted Jews were ever
called to the tribunals." [PRINZ, J., 1973, p. 44]

"Living under the Inquisition," adds Goldberg in another volume,

"caused Jews to make some curious adjustments, as can be seen
in the family of Manoel Pereira Coutinho, who had five daughters --
all nuns in a convent in Lisbon -- while in Hamburg his sons were
living openly as Jews." [GOLDBERG, M. H., 1976, p. 109]

"All Jews know about the Inquisition," wrote David Goldstein, a Jewish
apostate, "but of Jewish [-perpetrated] injustices they know hardly
anything." [GOLDSTEIN, p. 117] "The name of Torquemada," wrote Jewish
author John Cournos in 1937, "the loathsome Grand Inquisitor, was a
byword among us children, as it was in other Jewish households."
[GOLDSTEIN, p. 117] This view that the Inquisition somehow centered on
Jews still remains widespread in the community today, as proclaimed in a
1990 issue of the American Jewish Congress magazine devoted to the
subject of Jewish identity. Ignoring the Christian target groups of the
heresy trials, Zvi Bekarman remarked that "The Inquisition is brought to
us as one more proof of the suffering of the Jews." [BEKERMAN, p. 14]

Despite all the Jewish lamenting of pogroms and massacres upon their
ancestors, the Catholic-Protestant massacre of St. Bartholomew's Day in
the 1500's was as spectacularly horrible as any Jewish medieval
misfortune to that time. Nor, adds Roth, "was persecution of the Jews in
its acutest form [ever] systematic." (The later World War II Holocaust
scenario, which of course was systematic, will be addressed later at
length in its own chapter).

Jews were often blamed for the epidemic of the Plague and the Black
Death that swept Europe in the Middle Ages (while Jewish communities
were relatively free from the disease, [HERTZLER, p. 95] but such causal
connection to medieval minds was not to the detriment of Jews only. Non-
Jews were also accused of, and murdered for, causing the Plague in
Palermo in 1526, in Germany in 1530, 1545, and 1574, at Casale Monferrat
in 1536, and other places throughout Europe. In Breslau, in 1349 sixty
Jews were executed for having caused a town fire, "but," says Roth,
"when one recalls that 300 years afterwards the Great Fire of London was
[blamed upon] the Papists, one realizes that the Jews had no monopoly on
unjust accusations." [ROTH, p. 144]

Jewish communities themselves had irrational superstitions to scapegoat
others and to explain disease and other misfortunes. Says Zborowski and
Herzog:

"If an epidemic strikes the shtetl, prayers are, of course, offered up.
Other steps consist chiefly in marrying off two orphans or cripples,
so that God will be mollified by the good deeds of the worshippers...
Whenever there was an epidemic in the shtetl they used to blame it
on peoples' sins. They tried to find the guilty ones and expose them
to the public ... Another method for getting rid of an epidemic was
to get two orphans if possible and to marry them off on the cemetery
..." [ZBOROWSKI, p. 224]

Throughout Europe, "it was.... dangerous to be an old woman in the
sixteenth and seventeenth centuries"' when witch hunts put 100,000
unfortunates on trial for sorcery in Germany alone. [ROTH, p. 145] Some
30,000 such victims are reputed to have been burned alive or torn to
pieces in England, and over a two hundred year period in Scotland, an
average of two hundred "witches" were burned at the stake each year.
Throughout Europe gypsies were sporadically singled out for persecution
and blame, and various Christians and other non-Jews from time to time
were executed for the charge of cannibalism.

Lest modern Jews feel too smug in the brutal superstitions of the
ancient Gentiles, the Talmud itself notes an instance when eighty Jewish
women were hung at one time at the instigation of a fellow Jew, "Simeon
the Son of Shetach," in Ashkelon for the crime of being witches.
[HARRIS, p. 174] When coming across a witch, the Talmud recommends that
the passerby "should mutter thus, 'May a potsherd of boiling dung be
stuffed in your mouths, you ugly witches!'" [HARRIS, p.189] Some rabbis
even opined that a witch may be either male or female, but "most women
are witches." [HARRIS, p. 190] Even "the best among women," said Rabbi
Shimon ben Yochai, "is a witch." [HARRIS, p. 191]

The Talmud also details the various manners of stoning, strangling or
beheading Jewish "blasphemers and idolaters." Such criminals were also
buried up to their knees in manure, and their mouths forced open by
strangling. Molten lead could then be poured "into his bowels." [HARRIS,
p. 170]

The persistence of the Jewish mythology of unique persecution, says
Roth, has much to do with their longevity and communal dispersal
throughout Europe and the world. The persecution of the Albigensians of
France, for instance, is known by hardly anyone today because their
destruction was singularly localized, they were completely wiped out,
and there is no one interested in heralding their suffering. Likewise
the Waldenses of France, and various others. "The Jews," notes Roth,
"are an inseparable element in the history of every country in Europe
... and thus have an advantage, as it were, of a superior publicity
service; and no historian, even a Gentile, could fail to be impressed by
this insistent, pathetic, unique record." [ROTH, p. 147]

Roth goes to the essence of the Jewish mythos of communal agony:

"In the classical period ... with its holocausts and heroes, the lot of
the Jewish people was much the same as that of the ancient Britons,
the Iberians, and the Gauls; and the leaders of those peoples' struggles
for freedom deserve to be remembered as much as the Jewish martyrs
who are commemorated each year on the ninth of Ab. But this is far
from the case. Generally, they are forgotten, save by a few industrious
antiquarians; and they have no place today in the proud memories of
any people. The reason is very plain. The races for which they fought
are long since dead. The Jews are still alive." [ROTH, p. 147]

These insightful observations were written by Roth in 1932. The rise of
German fascism and its institutionalized inhumanity was still only
rising. Yet we can see here in Roth's unusually honest overview of
Jewish history the broader, foundational context for current Jewish
thinking about themselves to this day. Of course the so-called Holocaust
of World War II has completely solidified the traditional view of the
persecution of Jewry and obliterated Roth's broadly realistic brand of
Jewish historiography.

To a now militant Jewish polemic, their community's European experience
in World War II merely confirms the Jewish mythos of unique and eternal
victimization and martrydom. It is monolithic, irrefutable, immutable,
and immoveable: Jews argue they were uniquely "singled out." There will
be a great deal more about the Holocaust and its part in Jewish identity
in its own chapter. For immediate purposes, it is enough here to
recognize the historical context for modern Jewry's fundamental self-
conception: that of humankind's foremost -- and superlative -- victims,
passed along as part of religious faith century after century, reified
in Jewish cosmology at every turn.

Roth's early 1930's view, in the context of rising Nazi fascism and
worry about anti-Semitism spreading in America, has been completely
muted in our own day, and Jewish apologetics about Jewish identity and
history began rising in direct proportion to the gravity of the growing
German threat. By 1941, a Jewish author, Oscar Janowsky, reviewed -- in
the same Jewish journal that earlier published Roth's critiques of the
Jewish victimization cosmology -- two new books that championed Jewish
history. Each book was authored by well-respected Jewish scholars. One
of them was Cecil Roth. Janowsky's title for his article was
"Apologetics for Our Time." In the context of German Nazism, even Roth
was swallowed by the demands for Jewish positive image-making against
all and any self-critical Jewish commentary. "Both authors," wrote
Janowsky, "would readily concede that the purpose [of these books] was
not to write 'history' of the accepted variety. Our age requires
apologetics, and this sad need has been filled by the authors."
[JANOWSKY, p. 225] This "sad need" was so great that a 1951 volume
entitled The Hebrew Impact on Western Civilization even stated bluntly
in its very first sentence: "This book is a book of propaganda." [RUNES,
D., p. vii]

In 1947, Milton Steinberg wrote a volume, Basic Judaism, explaining the
faith for both Jews and "those many non-Jews who happen to be curious
about Judaism." [STEINBERG, p. viii] Here Steinberg's apologetic, in
doing his part to engender a positive Jewish public image (like so many
others to our own day), was grossly untrue: "Judaism is totally unaware
of race. Though the Tradition loves to trace the House of Israel to the
Patriarchs, blood descent is no factor in its calculations." [STEINBERG,
M., p. 99]

With World War II and the disaster that befell humanity -- and the Jews
within it -- looming soon over Europe, this apologetic methodology (as
well as a resultant Jewish militancy) about Jewish history has continued
in a rarely interrupted straight line to the present day. (Examine, for
example, the gushingly laudatory content of the popular 1999 bestseller
by a non-Jewish author: The Gifts of the Jews). In fact, the mythology
of perpetual Jewish victimhood was well along as an exploitable tool by
American Jews and Zionists as a political devise at the beginning of the
Twentieth Century, where Jewish woe centered upon anti-Jewish riots and
attacks in Eastern Europe, particularly in Russia. "Some of the
atrocities [against Jews] initially reported," writes Albert Lindemann,
"were exaggerated or simply did not occur, and some Jews made false
claims in the hope of getting relief money from Western Europe and
America." [LINDEMANN, p. 154]

Many of the exaggerations were also created to enhance Zionist
propaganda to garner sympathy and support for a Jewish state in Israel.
An important target of Zionist propaganda and historical exaggeration
was American Jews. "You have to speak to American Jews in
superlatives," remarked Nachum Goldmann, for many years the president of
both the World Zionist Organization and World Jewish Congress, "Cool,
balanced, analysis makes no impression on them, and exaggeration is
almost indispensable." [GROSE, p. 162] Elsewhere, in 1978 he noted that
his Zionist group alone had spent "millions of dollars on propaganda."
[GOLDMANN, N., 1978, p. 63]

A pioneer strategist in the use of the accusation of anti-Semitism as a
propaganda device was Theodore Herzl, a Viennese journalist and
playwright, the man most credited for the successful promotion of the
Jewish "return to Israel" Zionist ideology. Herzl "understood the true
nature of propaganda," notes former Israeli diplomat, Moshe Leshem," of
the emotional appeal." "In truth ... noise amounts to a great deal,"
Herzl noted in his diary, "A sustained noise is in itself a noteworthy
fact, world history is nothing but noise." [LESHEM, p. 85]

Among the most reported Russian anti-Jewish pogrom sites at the turn of
the century was Kishinev. (This incident led to the creation of the
Jewish lobbying agency, the American Jewish Committee in 1903). [HALKIN,
p. 54] Chaim Weitzmann, another Zionist activist and the first President
of the state of Israel, wrote to a member of the wealthy Jewish
Rothschild family (instrumental in funding early Jewish settlements in
pre-Israel Palestine):

"Eleven years ago ... I happened to be in the cursed town of Kishinev
... In a group of about 100 Jews we defended the Jewish quarter with
revolvers in our hand, defended women and girls ... We slept in the
cemetery -- the only safe place and we saw 80 corpses brought in,
mutilated dead...?

"Thus Weizmann," says Albert Lindemann, "reports that he personally saw
eighty mutilated corpses in a single place, when the death toll for the
entire city was later generally recognized to be forty-five. But there
is another problem with the account he provides. It is pure fantasy.
Weizmann was in Warsaw at the time." [LINDEMANN, p. 164]

The long -- and continuing -- Jewish defamation of Poles and Poland, as
part of a broad Zionist propaganda policy and secular Jewish
victimization theology, has been going on for a long time. For all
western Jewry's complaints about massive Polish violence against Polish
Jewry, in 1919 Hugh Gibson, the United states minister to Warsaw, wrote
that, "It is ridiculous as we are told about every incident where the
Jew gets the worst of it and a great many incidents that never happened
at all. These yarns are exclusively of foreign manufacture for anti-
Polish purposes." Two prominent and powerful American Zionists -- Louis
Brandeis and Felix Frankfurter (both United States Supreme Court
justices) -- confronted Gibson to complain about his dispatches to
Washington. "They complained that my reports on the Jewish question had
gone round the world and undone their work [in proclaiming enormous
violent Polish anti-Semitism]," said Gibson,

"... They finally said that I had stated that the stories of excesses
against
the Jews were exaggerated, to which I replied that they certainly were
and I should think any Jew would be glad to know it ... [They] seemed
to be interested in agitation for its own sake rather than in learning
the
situation ... Their efforts were concentrated on an attempt to bully me
into accepting the mixture of information and misinformation which
they have adopted as the basis of their propaganda ... Felix handed
me a scarcely veiled threat that the Jews would try to prevent my
confirmation by the Senate [then pending] ... They made it clear to
me that they do not care to have any diagnosis made that is not based
entirely on Jewish statements as to conditions and events and doesn't
accept them at face value. If they are not ready to go into the question
honestly I don't see how they can hope to accomplish anything for their
people... [American Jews have embarked upon] a conscienceless and
cold-blooded plan to make the condition of the Jews in Poland so bad
they must turn to Zionism for relief." [GROSE, p. 94-95]

In 1923 the United States Vice Consul to Warsaw, Monroe Kline, added
that "It is true that the Pole hates the Jew ... The Jew in business
oppresses the Pole to a far greater extent than does the Pole oppress
the Jew in a political way." [GROSE, p. 95]

More recently, Leonard Fein notes Jewish fears of assimilation that
could erase them as a people, and the emotional cloud that informs
Jewish perception of the facts of history:

"Deep down -- and sometimes not so very deep -- we [Jews] still
believe that we depended on the pogroms and persecutions to
keep us a people, and that we have not the fibre to withstand
the lures of a genuine open society. It is seduction, not rape,
that we fear the most, and nowhere is the seducer more blatant,
less devious, than here in America." [in SILBERMAN, p. 165]

The Jewish limited historical memory (and corresponding embracement of
legend) and its singular focus on its martyrological tradition has also
been systematically exploited to buttress Zionist reasoning for the
necessity of the modern state of Israel: a home for Jews from worldwide
anti-Semitic persecution. The lengths some Jews will go to enforce --
and create -- the martyrological/persecution tradition for political
purposes was noted by Wilbur Crane Eveland, a former CIA agent stationed
in Iraq in the early years after the foundation (1948) of today's
Israel. A few months before his arrival to that country in 1950, a bomb
went off "outside a Passover gathering," underscoring Arab hostility to
Jews and encouraging 10,000 to move to the new Israeli state. Eveland
wrote that

"Just after I arrived in Baghdad, an Israeli citizen had been recognized
in the city's largest department store: his interrogation led to the
discovery of fifteen arms caches brought into Iraq by an underground
Zionist movement. In attempts to portray the Iraqis as anti-American
and to terrorize the Jews, the Zionists planted bombs in the United
States Information Service Library and in synagogues. Soon
leaflets began to appear urging Jews to flee to Israel ... Although
the Iraqi police later provided our embassy with evidence to show that
the synagogue and library bombings, as well as the anti-Jewish and anti-
American leaflet campaigns, had been the work of an underground
Zionist organization, most of the world believed reports that Arab
terrorism had motivated the flight of the Iraqi Jews whom the
Zionists had 'rescued' really just in order to increase Israel's Jewish
population." [FEURLICHT, p. 231]

Aware from personal experience about the facts in such matters, in 1998,
an Iraqi-born Jew and former Zionist activist, Naeim Giladi, wrote that
he wanted "to tell the American people, and especially American Jews,
that Jews from Islamic lands did not emigrate willingly to Israel; that
to force them to leave, Jews killed Jews." [GILADI, p. 1]

In 1975 Jewish CBS reporter Mike Wallace journeyed to another Arab
nation, Syria, to do a 60 Minutes program on the country. Years later,
he noted his own biases (about alleged Syrian anti-Semitism) that were
destroyed when he actually went to Damascus:

"[Before I went to Syria] I had a strong impression of what life was
like for [Jews] there. From Jewish friends in America, I had heard
the same stories over and over again: The Jews in Syria were confined
to ghettos and were constant victims of persecution. A tight curfew was
imposed on them and they were not allowed to have telephones or
drives automobiles. Nor were they permitted to worship in synagogues
of study in their traditional language, Hebrew. In short, the Syrian
Jews
were forced to live as prisoners within their own country." [WALLACE/
GATES, 1984, p. 282]

All this, as Wallace soon learned upon visiting Syria, was complete
nonsense. Jews owned cars; Jews had classes in Hebrew. Although the
Jewish community was under close surveillance by the Assad regime,
Wallace is careful to note that so was everyone in that police state.
The CBS reporter interviewed a variety of Jews in the Arab country.
Speaking to a Jewish teacher, Wallace notes his surprise to her response
about the myths he had heard about Syrian anti-Semitism :

"Then I mentioned all the stories I had heard about how badly the
Jews were treated in Syria, and when I asked her where she thought
they came from, she replied in an almost malevolent tone: 'I think
that it's Zionist propaganda.'" [WALLACE, M., 1984, pl. 285]

Cecil Roth, in his overviews of Jewish history with its attendant
polemics and apologetics (let alone some of the fraudulent escapades of
modern Zionism), argued that the continued suppression of an honest
evaluation of the Jewish past could come back to haunt them:

"By suppression we play into the hand of the anti-Semite, who may one
day make capital out of the innocent humanity we have chosen to
ignore. But, above all, by repression we are faithless to the most
sacred
charge of history, which is the pursuit of truth." [ROTH, p. 423]

Posted by The_West on 9/13/2007

"Harry Hope" <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:5ttaf51k2jv9d3l8r...@4ax.com...
>

mose

unread,

Nov 7, 2009, 9:38:05 AM11/7/09

LETS EXAMINE BS THEN

===================================

Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities
during the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.

There is not a shred of evidence, for example, that "a gas chamber was
in the process of being built at Dachau, but it was never completed."
(See "The Second Leuchter Report" by American gas chamber expert Fred
Leuchter in The Journal of Historical Review, Fall 1990.) There is
likewise no proof that "mentally and physically handicapped people were
killed" by gas at any of the four "institutions" Wiesenthal mentions.

This US Army photo was taken at Dachau on April 30, 1945, one day after
the camp's capture. It shows a GI standing in front of a door marked
with a skull and crossbones and the words "Caution! Gas! Life danger! Do
not open!" According to the official caption, "these chambers were used
by Nazi guards for killing prisoners of the infamous Dachau
concentration camp." In fact, this is a small disinfection gas chamber
used for delousing clothes. It was never used to kill people. For
several decades, this photo has been widely reproduced to help keep
alive the notorious Dachau "gas chamber" myth. (US Army photo SC 206194.)

ACTUALLY -- AND CONTRARY TO HIS HIGHLY FLATTERING PUBLIC IMAGE -- THE
RENOWNED "NAZI HUNTER" HAS A WELL-DOCUMENTED BUT LITTLE-KNOWN RECORD OF
DECEIT, MENDACITY AND PREVARICATION. SOME HIGHLIGHTS:

Wiesenthal repeatedly lied about his alleged role in locating Adolf
Eichmann, was consistently wrong about Josef Mengele, and falsely
accused Polish-American Frank Walus of having murdered Jews in Poland as
a Gestapo official. Wiesenthal has absurdly charged that the Germans
exterminated Jews in "electrocution chambers," and that they
manufactured bars of soap from the bodies of murdered Jews. His
deception about his own wartime activities prompted Austrian Chancellor
Bruno Kreisky (himself of Jewish ancestry) to accuse the "Nazi hunter"
of having collaborated with his wartime oppressors. (For details about
Wiesenthal's record, see: M. Weber, "Simon Wiesenthal: Bogus Nazi
Hunter," The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1989-90.)

THE CANADIAN JEWISH NEWS, Jan. 30, 1992

Wannsee's importance rejected
London (JTA) - An Israeli Holocaust scholar has debunked the Wannsee
Conference, at which top Nazi officials are said to have gathered at a
villa in a Berlin suburb in 1942 to draw the blueprints of the "Final
Solution."

According to Prof. Yehuda Bauer (photo) of the Hebrew University in
Jerusalem, Wannsee was a meeting, "but hardly a conference", and
"little of what was said there was executed in detail."

"The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at
Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at."

"I have never held myself out to be a Holocaust expert, nor
have I written books about what is now called the Holocaust."

"I have done my best to prepare the case that follows, but
I respectfully submit that I do not have any duty to become an
expert on the Holocaust, my Lord."

"I have never claimed to be a Holocaust historian. As I have
said, I have no written no book about the Holocaust. I have written
no article about it. If I have spoken about it, it is usually
because somebody has asked me a question, I have been questioned
about it. On such occasions I have emphasised my lack of expertise
and I have expatiated only upon those areas with which I am familiar."

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day002.htm:

"Now, you heard me say in my opening statement, Mr Rampton,
that I am not an expert on the Holocaust. What I would now say
would be a figure without any value whatsoever."

"Q. [Rampton] What you do you say about Sobibor, Treblinka,
Belzec and Chelmno?"

"A. [Irving] Nothing at all. I am not an expert."

RJ.

Besides the condensation below you can exam the various reviews of the RED
CROSS covering WW2 during the time of the jews claimed astrocities commited
by the Germans.

Inmates Released

More than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps,
and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. In
addition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences were
released, and returned to their home countries. [16] If Auschwitz had
actually been a top secret extermination center, would the Germans have
released inmates who "knew" what was happening there?
Himmler Orders Death Rate Reduced

http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/21.html

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/news/?p=5803

http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm

http://www.777healthproducts.com/07g.htm

http://www.intellnet.org/resources/resistance/holocaust/04.htm

THE JEWS AND THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS:
A FACTUAL APPRAISAL BY THE RED CROSS.

There is one survey of the Jewish question in Europe during World War
Two and the conditions of Germany's concentration camps which is
almost unique in its honesty and objectivity, the three-volume Report
of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities
during the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.

This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source
incorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works:
Documents sur l'activit� du CICR en faveur des civils d�tenus dans les
camps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), and
Inter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War
(Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Fr�d�ric Siordet,
explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in the
tradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, and
herein lies its great value.

The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva military convention in
order to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and Western
Europe by the Germany authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable to
gain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify the
Convention. The millions of civilian and military internees held in
the USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, were
completely cut off from any international contact or supervision.

The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies the
legitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained in
concentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the two
categories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the second
type as "Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German,
"Schutzh�ftlinge"), who were arrested for political or racial motives
because their presence was considered a danger to the State or the
occupation forces" (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues,
"were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisoned
under common law for security reasons." (P.74).

The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permit
supervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating to
security, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained important
concessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute food
parcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and
"from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all other
camps and prisons" (Vol. 111, p. 78). The ICRC soon established
contact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programme
which continued to function until the last months of 1945, letters of
thanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.

Red Cross Recipients Were Jews
The Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily.
From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with a
total weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps"
(Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained clothing and
pharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald,
Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg,
Landsberg-am-Lech, Fl�ha, Ravensbr�ck, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen,
Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near Vienna and in
Central and Southern Germany. The principal recipients were Belgians,
Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians, Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews"
(Vol. III, p. 83).

In the course of the war, "The Committee was in a position to transfer
and distribute in the form of relief supplies over twenty million
Swiss francs collected by Jewish welfare organisations throughout the
world, in particular by the American Joint Distribution Committee of
New York" (Vol. I, p. 644). This latter organisation was permitted by
the German Government to maintain offices in Berlin until the American
entry into the war. The ICRC complained that obstruction of their vast
relief operation for Jewish internees came not from the Germans but
from the tight Allied blockade of Europe. Most of their purchases of
relief food were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.

The ICRC had special praise for the liberal conditions which prevailed
at Theresienstadt up to the time of their last visits there in April
1945. This camp, "where there were about 40,000 Jews deported from
various countries was a relatively privileged ghetto" (Vol. III, p.
75). According to the Report, "'The Committee's delegates were able to
visit the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusively
for Jews and was governed by special conditions. From information
gathered by the Committee, this camp had been started as an experiment
by certain leaders of the Reich ... These men wished to give the Jews
the means of setting up a communal life in a town under their own
administration and possessing almost complete autonomy. . . two
delegates were able to visit the camp on April 6th, 1945. They
confirmed the favourable impression gained on the first visit" (Vol.
I, p . 642).

The ICRC also had praise for the regime of Ion Antonescu of Fascist
Rumania where the Committee was able to extend special relief to
183,000 Rumanian Jews until the time of the Soviet occupation. The aid
then ceased, and the ICRC complained bitterly that it never succeeded
"in sending anything whatsoever to Russia" (Vol. II, p. 62). The same
situation applied to many of the German camps after their "liberation"
by the Russians. The ICRC received a voluminous flow of mail from
Auschwitz until the period of the Soviet occupation, when many of the
internees were evacuated westward. But the efforts of the Red Cross to
send relief to internees remaining at Auschwitz under Soviet control
were futile. However, food parcels continued to be sent to former
Auschwitz inmates transferred west to such camps as Buchenwald and
Oranienburg.

No Evidence Of Genocide
One of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that it
clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in
the camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: "In the chaotic
condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the
war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed
an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the
German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ...
In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and
General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results.
Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate
was authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).

Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire
situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit
in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied
bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned
Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous
aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October
2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending
collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that
starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming
inevitable.

In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it is
important to stress that the delegates of the International Red Cross
found no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of a
deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages the
Report does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admits
that Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours and
privations, but its complete silence on the subject of planned
extermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend. Like the
Vatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross found
itself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocide
which had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortality
rate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewish
doctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the eastern
front, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945
broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff) - Incidentally, it is
frequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gas
chambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Report
makes nonsense of this allegation. "Not only the washing places, but
installations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by the
delegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made less
primitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594).

Not All Were Interned
Volume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish Civilian
Population) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of the
free population," and this chapter makes it quite plain that by no
means all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, but
remained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the free
civilian population. This conflicts directly with the "thoroughness"
of the supposed "extermination programme", and with the claim in the
forged H�ss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing "every
single Jew he could lay his hands on."

In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wisliceny
was in charge, the Report states that "A large proportion of the
Jewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certain
periods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge for
Jews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained in
Slovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end of
August 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. While
it is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about the
internment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in camps
where the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where the
internees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to those
of the free labour market" (Vol. I, p. 646).

Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jews
avoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continued
throughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.
Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupied
territories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of the
Polish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jews
from Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits to
the United States were held to be American citizens by the German
occupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity of
about three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates of
South American countries" (Vol. I, p. 645).

As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp in
southern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jews
from Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by the
German authorities. "Until March 1944," says the. Red Cross Report,
"Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leave
Hungary" (Vol. I, p. 648). Even after the replacement of the Horthy
Government in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the Soviet
Union) with a government more dependent on German authority, the
emigration of Jews continued.

The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the United
States "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews from
Hungary," and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a message
stating that "The Government of the United States ... now specifically
repeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for the
care of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed to
leave" (Vol. I, p . 649).

Biedermann agreed that in the nineteen instances that "Did Six Million
Really Die?" quoted from the Report of the International Committee of
the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War and Inter
Arma Caritas (this includes the above material), it did so accurately.

A quote from Charles Biedermann (a delegate of the International
Committee of the Red Cross and Director of the Red Cross'
International Tracing Service) under oath at the Z�ndel Trial
(February 9, 10, 11 and 12, 1988).

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2735

http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/14645862&referer=brief_results

The New Blasphemy
by Tom Blair
News Editor, The Jubilee
There was a time when a man did not blaspheme God in America. There were
severe social proscriptions against it. Some communities even had laws
against blasphemy. Well blasphemy is still a great sin in America and may
soon be a crime again. But sadly America has a new god and so, a new
blasphemy.
Let me here commit the new blasphemy while it is still legal. What we know
as the "holocaust" is largely war-time propaganda. Propaganda that, unlike
most war-time propaganda, was not quietly forgotten. Instead it has
continued; grown more fantastic, more hateful, and more dangerous to
question every year since 1945.
The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died in
German work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.
Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hunger
caused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of her
infrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realize
that the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942
until the end of the war. That office never reported or recorded any
atrocities (Several years ago international Jewry forced the Red Cross to
apologize to the Jews - apologize for not seeing something that never
happened.)

Winston Churchill wrote a five volume history of World War II and never
mentioned the holocaust. He never mentioned it because he knew that the
holocaust was just wartime propaganda and he did not want to sully what he
hoped would be the definitive history of the war with propaganda that common
sense alone could refute. I could go on but the evidence I speak of is
available to The Jubilee readers from many patriotic sources even though it
is still widely censored by America's media and libraries.
I once considered the battle over the holocaust as a great political trump
card allowing us to take back the moral high ground on the censorship issue
from the left. But I see now that it is much more important than that. The
holocaust is qualitatively different than the silly lies nations tell their
citizens to get them so fired up they will send their children to die in
foreign wars. The holocaust is not pre-war propaganda. It is post-war
propaganda.
Why do we need post World War II propaganda? Because World War II was the
greatest human catastrophe in two thousand years for the Aryan peoples and
we "gentiles" must not be allowed to see the truth. It was more than the
slaughter of our racial kinsmen and the destruction of our racial homeland.
World War II was the most significant crossroads the Christian nations have
faced since Herman faced the legions of Rome in the forests of Teutonberg
2,000 years ago. But Herman won the battle of Teutonberg Wald. The Christian
world lost World War II. We lost because we came to a crossroads and went
the wrong way.

http://www.nafcash.com/

Lest you think there must be some truth to the alleged Treblinka holocaust

NAFCASH TM is offering a $250,000.00 REWARD

For locating JUST ONE of the alleged "HUGE MASS GRAVES" of Treblinka

NAFCASH TM presents

THE TREBLINKA CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION CHALLENGE TM

You must scientifically - forensically prove the grave's EXACT location,
its EXACT dimensions and its EXACT volumetric density.

The cremated remains must total AT LEAST one percent of the alleged mass
murder.

JUST ONE MASS GRAVE! - JUST ONE PERCENT!

http://www.nowar-paix.ca/nowar/forum/6973
HOW TO KEEP ACADEMICS QUIET
The Real Issue Is Israel's Human Rights Record:
A statement by Norman G. Finkelstein upon publication of Beyond Chutzpah

Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard University is currently best known
for
his advocacy of the "most excruciating" torture against terrorist suspects
such as a "needle being shoved under the fingernails." The alleged purpose
of this torture is to extract a truthful confession but its real
consequence, as human rights organizations have pointed out, is to produce
whatever statements are necessary to end the suffering.

For 15 months
Dershowitz has applied a variant of this truth-seeking technique -- less
physically painful but no less excruciating -- to prospective publishers
of
Beyond Chutzpah, which offers a critical examination of Israel's human
rights record and Dershowitz's defense of it. Enlisting one of the most
powerful law firms in the country after his personal initiatives proved
unsuccessful, Dershowitz has repeatedly threatened to bankrupt highly
respected publishers with litigation if they didn't cancel publication of
my
book. He could then proclaim that the cancellation confirmed the "truth"
that Beyond Chutzpah didn't meet scholarly standards.

Dershowitz justified these blackmail tactics on the ground that Beyond
Chutzpah libels him. Yet, when I first began to expose his gross scholarly
misconduct, Dershowitz publicly declared at UCLA (on 21 October 2003) that
he wouldn't respond with a libel action because he believed "so strongly
in
the First Amendment and full freedom of speech." Ironically, just as he
was
threatening my publishers with expensive and time-consuming lawsuits,
Dershowitz denounced Holocaust denier David Irving, who had sued Deborah
Lipstadt for libel, with these words: "Before Irving lost his case
[against
Lipstadt], several publishers had refused to issue books critical of
Irving,
out of fear of his bringing expensive and time-consuming lawsuits. That
was
a chilling of free speech" (Afterword to Lipstadt's History on Trial; his
emphasis).

My publisher, University of California Press, was understandably at great
pains to fend off a potential lawsuit by Dershowitz; for an academic
publisher the associated costs would have been ruinous, to the point of
making certain victory meaningless. On occasion our relationship became
strained and at one point it appeared as if we had reached an impasse.
However, through the skillful mediation of Nation magazine senior editor
Roane Carey (who was the freelance editor of Beyond Chutzpah) and others,
a
satisfactory compromise was reached that protected the interests of both
publisher and author, and, most importantly, preserved the integrity of
the
book. I would like personally to extend my heartfelt thanks to all who
supported me and the press during this difficult period.
"Another Frenchman, Paul Rassinier, a pre-war communist and later a
socialist, had been a member of the French Resistance. He was arrested and
interned in concentration camps, among them Buchenwald. In 1948 he published
a book Crossing the Line, in which he argued that people might have been
killed in concentration camps, but that the perpetrators had acted on their
own, not on orders from headquarters.
AS WITH ABU GRAIB.

"The saving of the Jews in Europe did not figure at the head of the list of
priorities of the ruling class. It was the foundation of the State which was
primordial in their eyes."
http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/books/miscelleneous/the-founding-myths-of-israeli-politics/part3.htm

"The masses of Jews from Hungary's ghettos obediently boarded the
deportation trains without knowing their fate. They were full of
confidence in the false information that they were being transferred to
Kenyermeze.

The Nazis could not have misled the masses of Jews so conclusively had
they not spread their false information through Jewish channels.

The Jews of the ghettos would not have trusted the Nazi or Hungarian
rulers. But they had trust in their Jewish leaders. Eichmann and others
used this known fact as part of their calculated plan to mislead the Jews.
They were able to deport the Jews to their extermination by the help of
Jewish leaders.

The false information was spread by the Jewish leaders. The local leaders
of the Jews of Kluj and Nodvarod knew that other leaders were spreading
such false information and did not protest.

Those of the Jews who tried to warn their friends of the truth were
persecuted by the Jewish leaders in charge of the local 'rescue work'.

The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died in
German work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.
Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hunger
caused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of her
infrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realize
that
the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942 until
the end of the war.
That office never reported or recorded any atrocities (Several years ago
international Jewry forced the Red Cross to apologize to the Jews -
apologize for not seeing something that never happened.)

Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation
as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that
food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German
transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on
March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter
Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German
Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation
system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany
were becoming inevitable.

A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungary
in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily.
She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of "gas
chambers" during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassing
stories only later. [15]
Inmates Released

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

http://www.ussliberty.org/

"Asgard" <asg...@home.net> wrote in message
news:zZadnTJAIc9c0_DY...@giganews.com...

� What a load of emotive old bollocks, bullshit and lies.
>
> The narrator states the inmates were "starving' at Bergen Belsen, yet the
> vast majority of the inmates look positively fat and shiny.
>
> He goes on to say those dead, had died of starvation, yet earlier stated
> they'd not eaten for only 6 days.
>
> The images of the dead showed mainly emaciated corpses, nothing like the
> people still moving around. If they'd died of "starvation", why had the
> vasst majority of the inmates not suffered the same fate. Why, indeed was
> it
> only the corpses which were emaciated.
>
> What I found particularly intersting, was significant incidence of
> petachiae
> on the bodies of the dead. THIS IS A CLASSIC SIGN OF EPIDEMIC TYPHUS.
>
> The documentary was made in 2005, by a yid, and I note they're still using
> the mythical 4million figure for deaths at Auschsitz. Haven't corrected
> the
> script. They also state, quite clearly, there were 6m jewish deaths in
> camps. No mention of the supposed Einzatzgroupen.
>
> The entire documentary is a farcical attempt heighten the victimhood
> status
> of yids.
>
> Any of the experts like to comment? Keenan? You're an expert on
> everything.
> Gord, likewise. McFey? Got any answers chaps?
>
> I look forward to your attempts to shoot this one down.
>

"Topaz" <mars...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pklr449roj8r6c7uf...@4ax.com...

>
> "The orthodox holocaust story can not possibly be defended with
> rational arguments because its absurdity is overwhelming. We are asked
> to believe in the fata morgana of a vast slaughter in killing
> factories which left no traces whatsoever - no documents, no bones, no
> teeth, no ashes - nothing! We are further asked to believe that the
> Allies, who had a large network of informers all over Europe and a spy
> in the German leadership (Admiral Canaris, the head of the German
> intelligence), did not become aware of this gigantic genocide until
> the end of the war, for if they had known about the mass murder, they
> would have acted to stop it. Finally, we are asked to believe that the
> Jews in Poland, the epicentre of the holocaust, did not know anything
> about the Auschwitz gas chambers as late as in August 1944, otherwise
> the Jews from the Lodz ghetto would not have gone to Auschwitz
> voluntarily - which is precisely what they did, as related by Raul
> Hilberg in his standard work about the holocaust (Die Vernichtung der
> europaeischen Juden, p. 543/544).
>
> As the Zionist-controlled system of the "Western democracies" is
> woefully unable to counter the revisionists with arguments, it resorts
> to censorship and brute force in order to silence the dangerous
> heretics. And the Jews are gradually transforming the holocaust into a
> religion. This is a very clever strategy, for as Robert Faurisson
> aptly remarks, one cannot refute a religion with scientific arguments.
> Thus, the holocaust museums and holocaust monuments spreading like
> mushrooms all over America and Europe are really temples of the new
> religion, whereas professional "holocaust survivors" such as Elie
> Wiesel are the priests of the new religion. To prove this assertion,
> we only have to quote Wiesel himself: "The Holocaust is a holy
> mystery, the secret of which is limited to the circle of the
> priesthood of survivors" (Peter Novick, The Holocaust in American
> Life, 1999, p. 211, 212, retranslated from the German). Another high
> priest of the holocaust cult, Simon Wiesenthal, goes even further:
> "When each of us comes before the Six Million, we will be asked what
> we did with our lives... I will say: I did not forget you" (Simon
> Wiesenthal in Response, Vol. 20, Nr. 1).
>
> No critical questions about the holocaust are allowed because they are
> a blasphemy: They cause immense distress to the eternal victims of
> persecution, the Jews, and are an attempt to whitewash National
> Socialism - the most evil ideology of all times which made the
> holocaust possible! In today's Germany, it is even considered
> inadmissible to compare the holocaust with the atrocities of communist
> tyrants such as Stalin or Cambodian dictator Pol Pot because this is
> regarded as a "relativisation" and "trivialization" of the worst crime
> in history.
>
> French Zionist propagandist Claude Lanzmann, the producer of a long
> and unspeakably dull film about the holocaust (the title of this film
> is Shoa, the Hebrew word for "catastrophe", which is often used by
> Jews as a synonym for "holocaust") makes no effort to conceal that the
> holocaust cult is to replace Christianity:
>
> "If Auschwitz is something other than a horror of history, then
> Christianity totters in its foundations. Christ is the Son of God, who
> went to the end of the humanely endurable, where he endured the
> cruellest suffering. (...) If Auschwitz is true, then there is a human
> suffering with which that of Christ simply cannot be compared. (...)
> In this case, Christ is false, and salvation will not come from him.
> (...) Auschwitz is the refutation of Christ." (Les temps modernes,
> Paris, December 1993, p. 132, 133.)
>
> Nowadays, a large percentage of the Jews do not believe in God any
> more, but virtually all of them believe in the Six Million. The
> Zionist leadership cunningly exploits the holocaust to unite the
> World's Jews by keeping them in a constant state of hysteria and
> persecution mania, insinuating that only if the Jews stick together
> will they be able to ban the threat of a new holocaust.
>
> It goes without saying that very few Non-Jews are willing to embrace
> the murky holocaust religion. While the overwhelming majority of
> people in the West still believe that the official holocaust version
> is essentially true (even if they suspect that the figures might me
> somewhat inflated), they are thoroughly fed up with the eternal
> lamentation about Jewish victims and Jewish suffering. They simply
> don't want to hear it any more. In Germany, opinion polls showed that
> a vast majority of the population was against the planned holocaust
> monument in Berlin (which not a single major party, not a single
> leading politician and not a single big newspaper dared to oppose).
> Privately, the politicians are probably as profoundly disgusted with
> the endless holocaust litany as the rest of the population, but they
> cannot possibly afford to let the revisionists win because this would
> shatter the very foundations of the "democratic" system to which they
> own their careers and their wealth...
>
> The ultimate weapon against Zionism and the state of Israel
>
> At the end of the year 2000, Israel is a besieged country, but from
> the military point of view, it is still vastly superior to its
> neighbours, and it enjoys the unconditional support of the United
> States. Should any of the Islamic states grow strong enough to
> seriously threaten Israel, it would most probably be attacked and
> militarily annihilated by America. Russia is not likely to risk a
> confrontation with the USA for the sake of the Palestinians. We can
> certainly admire the bravery of the Palestinians resistance fighters
> who are willing to sacrifice their lives to liberate their homeland
> from the alien intruders, but realistically, they have no chance to
> win. The Palestinians have stones and slings. The Israelis have
> helicopters and tanks. You can't destroy helicopters and tanks with
> stones and slings.
>
> When fighting one's enemy, one should always look for his weakest
> spot. The weakest spot of Israel, its Achilles heel, is the holocaust
> lie to which it owes its existence. The revisionists can give the
> adversaries of Israel and international Zionism a terrible weapon. It
> is quite true that many revisionists are by no means guided by
> political considerations. Some of them - Carlo Mattogno is a good
> example - are only motivated by intellectual curiosity: They want to
> ascertain what really happened to the Jews during the Second World
> War. But even if revisionism is not a political movement, its
> political implications are tremendous. The revisionists are
> endeavouring to find out the truth, and truth is the deadliest enemy
> of Israel and international Jewry. Thus, the revisionists objectively
> work against Israel and Zionism, even if subjectively their goals are
> often purely scientific and devoid of any political ambition. This is,
> of course, the reason why they are persecuted and their books burnt in
> more and more countries.
>
> In view of the total Jewish media control and the ever-growing
> anti-revisionist repression in many Western countries, it is very
> difficult indeed to achieve a revisionist breakthrough. We
> revisionists are facing an uphill struggle which can only partly be
> explained by our total lack of financial resources. Fortunately the
> internet, which the Jews are unable to censure, has greatly improved
> our possibilities to make the results of our research known to the
> World, but all the same, we should not cherish naive illusions: Not
> every citizen of the Western world who is informed about the
> revisionist arguments will automatically become revisionist and
> anti-Zionist. The average person in the West - and particularly in
> Germany - has been so thoroughly brainwashed that a sudden exposure to
> the truth can provoke a nervous breakdown or stomach cramps. I have
> repeatedly witnessed this myself. Other people would gladly accept the
> truth about the holocaust, but as they know that even the slightest
> suspicion of revisionism leads to social ostracism, economic ruin and
> legal persecution, they understandably prefer not to get involved.
> However, if we want to win the war against those whom one of my
> Russian friends called "the enemies of God and mankind"..
>
> The logical consequence of all this is that those countries which are
> authentically anti-Zionist and real friends of the oppressed
> Palestinian people should make the breakthrough of holocaust
> revisionism their foremost priority. A tank costs millions of dollars,
> yet one soldier can destroy it with a single missile. The revisionists
> can provide anti-Zionist freedom fighters with a weapon not even a
> thousand missiles can destroy."
>
>
>
> http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com
>
> http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.nsm88.com/
>
> http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html

Sept 15, 2007

By Patrick Grimm

[1] http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,504790,00.html

[2]
http://www.davidduke.com/general/motherhood-crusader-fired-from-german-television_2745.html#more-2745

[3] http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07073008.html

continuing:

Elsewhere, Weizman adds:

mose

unread,

Nov 7, 2009, 9:39:37 AM11/7/09

LETS EXAMINE BS THEN

===================================

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day002.htm:

RJ.

Inmates Released

http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/21.html

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/news/?p=5803

http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm

http://www.777healthproducts.com/07g.htm

http://www.intellnet.org/resources/resistance/holocaust/04.htm

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2735

http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/14645862&referer=brief_results

http://www.nafcash.com/

NAFCASH TM presents

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

http://www.ussliberty.org/

Sept 15, 2007

By Patrick Grimm

[1] http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,504790,00.html

[2]
http://www.davidduke.com/general/motherhood-crusader-fired-from-german-television_2745.html#more-2745

[3] http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07073008.html

continuing:

Elsewhere, Weizman adds:

Kevin Cunningham

unread,

Nov 7, 2009, 11:53:41 AM11/7/09

On Nov 7, 9:19 am, The Christ <bardic26...@mypacks.net> wrote:
> Wiesel is a liar.
>
>
Notice all the antisemitic ass holes came out to play......

Drooling scum.

Will

unread,

Nov 7, 2009, 6:08:58 PM11/7/09

Ass holes no body some one let's talk intelligence .Oh never
mind..............

Matt

unread,

Nov 7, 2009, 6:21:36 PM11/7/09

On Nov 7, 7:19 am, The Christ <bardic26...@mypacks.net> wrote:
> Wiesel is a liar.

Were you there?

If not, you were the liar.

If you were, you were with many of my relatives and should have no
problem identifying them.

Your age and place of birth?

Matt

unread,

Nov 7, 2009, 6:24:10 PM11/7/09

On Nov 7, 7:36 am, "mose" <m...@capp.com> wrote:
> LETS EXAMINE BS THEN

Yes, lets.

Tell us the date on which Christ was born.

Ends of discussion.

Matt

Dänk 1010011010

unread,

Nov 7, 2009, 8:50:29 PM11/7/09

On Nov 7, 6:35 am, Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> From Salon, 11/6/09:http://www.salon.com/news/tea_parties/index.html?story=/politics/war_...

>
> Wiesel slams tea partiers over Holocaust signs
>
> The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right
> are making to genocide

> ...

>_______________
>
> There must be people who remember World War II and the Holocaust who
> can help us get out of this rut.
>
> Martin Scorsese
>
> Harry

I just wonder where you and Elie Wiesel were when leftards were
comparing George W. Bush to Adolf Hitler, such as in this protest sign
I saw in San Francisco last year:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3653/3644823884_5780daea31.jpg

r wiley

unread,

Nov 8, 2009, 1:23:00 AM11/8/09

Wiesel is compelled to enforce his copyright on the term.
"holocaust" may only be used to refer to Jewish victimhood.

Message has been deleted

Dänk 1010011010

unread,

Nov 8, 2009, 9:36:44 PM11/8/09

On Nov 8, 5:42 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 00:23:00 -0600, "r wiley" <rawi...@southslope.net> wrote:
>
> >"
>
> >Wiesel is compelled to enforce his copyright on the term.
> >"holocaust" may only be used to refer to Jewish victimhood.
>

> Um, FYI, you subliterate stupid motherfucker, there is a difference between
> "holocaust" and "Holocaust."
>
> One is a generic noun referring to devastation and/or destruction. One is a
> proper noun that applies to a specific historical event.

"So you see the world is coming to an end and you want to make a
Holocaust back in 1941. That's not a Holocaust, that was man's war
against man. That's not God's war against man. God is in everything,
y'know. We need to fix the water, we need to help the damn trees, we
need to stop the fuckin' pollution, we need to stop them damn
automobiles and do a lot more walking. Get back to bicycles. Quit
using paper, quit wiping your ass with the trees. Quit wasting all
the fuckin' paper, man."
-- Charles Manson

r wiley

unread,

Nov 9, 2009, 10:44:39 AM11/9/09

"Peter Principle" <petes...@SNIPITgmail.com> wrote in message news:h1pef5ppc5ipb243o...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 00:23:00 -0600, "r wiley" <raw...@southslope.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"
>>
>>Wiesel is compelled to enforce his copyright on the term.
>>"holocaust" may only be used to refer to Jewish victimhood.
>

> Um, FYI, you subliterate stupid motherfucker, there is a difference between
> "holocaust" and "Holocaust."

As my post illustrated, I understand you racist vermin perfectly.

Message has been deleted

r wiley

unread,

Nov 12, 2009, 12:41:03 AM11/12/09

"Peter Principle" <petes...@SNIPITgmail.com> wrote in message news:kq5kf5l83khc1ama1...@4ax.com...

> As your post illustrated, you're an ignorant subliterate stupid asshole
> bigoted goober too fucking dumb to ken the HUGE difference between the
> PROPER NOUN "Holocaust," which refers ONLY to one *very* specific historical
> event, and the generic noun "holocaust," meaning devastation in general.
>
> Also, as your post indicated, you're a gutless rightarded coward who can
> only snip away the FACTS that so scare the shit out of your stupid goober
> ass while you hope and pray that no one notices.

Now that's funny. You hide behind a pseudonym and call me a coward.

Message has been deleted

Bret Cahill

unread,

Nov 12, 2009, 10:37:19 PM11/12/09

> From Salon, 11/6/09:http://www.salon.com/news/tea_parties/index.html?story=/politics/war_...
>

> Wiesel slams tea partiers over Holocaust signs
>
> The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right
> are making to genocide
>
> By Alex Koppelman
>
> Unfortunately, it seems that whether it's on the Internet or in real

> life, Godwin's Law always finds a way to prove itself again.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

>
> People manage to use Nazi and Holocaust references in the most poorly
> considered of ways, as if they're unaware of the true horror that was
> the slaughter of millions of innocent people.
>
> That sort of thing has been happening all too frequently during
> protests against Democratic healthcare reform plans, and one of the
> more shocking examples was on display at the protest on Capitol Hill
> Thursday: A banner that featured a picture of naked, emaciated bodies
> stacked in a pile, with text reading, "National Socialist Health Care:
> Dachau, Germany -- 1945."http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/1.jpg
>
> Now, someone with credibility on the issue that's all too real has
> spoken out against these comparisons.
>
> Elie Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor and author, put out a statement
> through his foundation's Twitter account.
>
> It reads simply, "Elie Wiesel on the GOP Tea Party's anti-Semitism and
> Holocaust comparisons: 'This kind of political hatred is indecent and
> disgusting.'"
>
> _______________________________________________________
>
> There must be people who remember World War II and the Holocaust who
> can help us get out of this rut.
>
> Martin Scorsese
>
> Harry

The tea baggers have nothing in common with the founders of this
country who fought for taxation with representation.

Bret Cahill

unread,

Nov 12, 2009, 10:47:56 PM11/12/09

> > From Salon, 11/6/09:http://www.salon.com/news/tea_parties/index.html?story=/politics/war_...
>
> > Wiesel slams tea partiers over Holocaust signs
>
> > The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right
> > are making to genocide
> > ...
> >_______________
>
> > There must be people who remember World War II and the Holocaust who
> > can help us get out of this rut.
>
> > Martin Scorsese
>
> > Harry
>
> I just wonder where you and Elie Wiesel were when leftards were
> comparing George W. Bush to Adolf Hitler

Exactly! Just because Rove was borrowing heavily from Goebbels and
Dumbya was trying to be like Hitler doesn't mean they were successful.

In fact, Dumbya failed at everything he tried, even being a fascist.

Bret Cahill

r wiley

unread,

Nov 13, 2009, 12:15:07 AM11/13/09

"Peter Principle" <petes...@SNIPITgmail.com> wrote in message news:6pipf51i6nfpqjul8...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:41:03 -0600, "r wiley" <raw...@southslope.net>

> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Peter Principle" <petes...@SNIPITgmail.com> wrote in message news:kq5kf5l83khc1ama1...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:44:39 -0600, "r wiley" <raw...@southslope.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Peter Principle" <petes...@SNIPITgmail.com> wrote in message news:h1pef5ppc5ipb243o...@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 00:23:00 -0600, "r wiley" <raw...@southslope.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wiesel is compelled to enforce his copyright on the term.
>>>>>>"holocaust" may only be used to refer to Jewish victimhood.
>>>>>
>>>>> Um, FYI, you subliterate stupid motherfucker, there is a difference between
>>>>> "holocaust" and "Holocaust."
>>>>
>>>>As my post illustrated, I understand you racist vermin perfectly.
>>>
>>> As your post illustrated, you're an ignorant subliterate stupid asshole
>>> bigoted goober too fucking dumb to ken the HUGE difference between the
>>> PROPER NOUN "Holocaust," which refers ONLY to one *very* specific historical
>>> event, and the generic noun "holocaust," meaning devastation in general.
>>>
>>> Also, as your post indicated, you're a gutless rightarded coward who can
>>> only snip away the FACTS that so scare the shit out of your stupid goober
>>> ass while you hope and pray that no one notices.
>>
>>Now that's funny. You hide behind a pseudonym and call me a coward.
>

> You know what's REALLY funny? Ignorant subliterate stupid asshole maroons
> who, when rhetorically spanked raw for their astounding, glaring idiocy, try
> to change the subject, apparently thinking no one will notice.
>

Rant away. Whether you capitalize holocaust when you try to enforce your
imagined copyright or not, you are not a victim. And unless "Peter Principal" is
your name, you have no standing to call anyone a coward.

Salty Stan

unread,

Nov 13, 2009, 11:34:12 AM11/13/09

On Nov 12, 10:47 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
> Exactly! Just because Rove was borrowing heavily from Goebbels and
> Dumbya was trying to be like Hitler doesn't mean they were successful.
>

Goodwin's law confirmed again.

> In fact, Dumbya failed at everything he tried, even being a fascist.

Everything, including defeating democrats in elections?

>
> Bret Cahill

Message has been deleted

r wiley

unread,

Nov 14, 2009, 12:44:17 AM11/14/09

"Peter Principle" <petes...@SNIPITgmail.com> wrote in message news:v47sf519mfkjpm4ds...@4ax.com...

>>>>> As your post illustrated, you're an ignorant subliterate stupid asshole
>>>>> bigoted goober too fucking dumb to ken the HUGE difference between the
>>>>> PROPER NOUN "Holocaust," which refers ONLY to one *very* specific historical
>>>>> event, and the generic noun "holocaust," meaning devastation in general.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, as your post indicated, you're a gutless rightarded coward who can
>>>>> only snip away the FACTS that so scare the shit out of your stupid goober
>>>>> ass while you hope and pray that no one notices.
>

> Fart away, subliterate stupid asshole shit licking racist impotent little
> pricklet. The fact remains that you're FAR too fucking STUPID to ken the
> simple FACT that "Holocaust" and "holocaust" are two different words with
> two completely different definitions. Witness, yet again, you stupid
> motherfucker, the REALITY your impotent little pricklet ass can only snip
> away in terror...

> Questions, you stupid motherfucker? As you can see, you stupid motherfucker,
> your insane boob.farts have absolutely no effect whatsoever on REALITY.
>
> Fart away, impotent little pricklet. You will always have exactly the
> influence and exactly the power here as you do in your pathetic excuse for a
> real life, which is to say precisely NONE, not any, nothing, zed, zip, zero,
> zatch, diddly, squat, bupkes, niente, nada...
>
> Congratulations, you stupid asshole!
>
> But boy, howdy, yooz shore izza konvincin' lots'o folk dat yoo ain't rilly a
> subliterate imbecile farting asinine FUD about that which you know entirely
> not shit. No, really, yer doin' a heckuva job! As far as you know...

Another troll hiding behind the anonymity of usenet demonstrates how many
attempted insults he can squeeze into a post. I've read enough of your drivel.

leonox1

unread,

Nov 14, 2009, 5:20:23 PM11/14/09

On Nov 13, 10:06 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
wrote:

> Fart away, subliterate stupid asshole shit licking racist impotent little
> pricklet.

Hmm, I'm guessing from your language that's you're a liberal. Am I
right?

Message has been deleted

leonox1

unread,

Nov 16, 2009, 11:10:32 PM11/16/09

On Nov 16, 9:19 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
wrote:

> Hmmm, I don't have to guess. I can tell from the fact that you can't even
> make it through so much as one very short sentence without a subliterate
> boob.fart glaring error so fundamental as to embarrass the average 3rd
> grader.
>
> Well played! Bravo! Yooz a jen-yoo-whine jeen-yus, yooz izza! A reel master
> o' strategery, tooo...
>
I'll take that as a "Yes, you were right".

Message has been deleted

leonox1

unread,

Nov 17, 2009, 11:04:03 PM11/17/09

snip

>> >Hmm, I'm guessing from your language that's you're a liberal. Am
I
> >> >right?
>

ranting snipped

> >I'll take that as a "Yes, you were right".
>

> I'll take that as your WATB subliterate stupid goober ass can't even

"subliterate"... heh heh

> ADDRESS anything of the FACTS

"anything" of the facts

>I've presented, much less refute any of them in any
> way.
>
> Or can you? Can you actually refute ANYTHING I've said or are you every bit
> the ignorant subliterate stupid asshole you play here so well?
>

You see, you'll actually have to post some facts before that can be
addressed.

> Well?
>
> <tap, tap, tap>
>
> Begin, luser...
>
snip
>
> ABSTRACT:
> ...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile
> on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
> performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the
> 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.

Just curious, what percentile do you place yourself, Peter?

Message has been deleted

leonox1

unread,

Nov 19, 2009, 7:59:37 AM11/19/09

On Nov 18, 12:32 am, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
wrote:
-ranting snipped-
>
> ------
> hol·o·caust /'h?l??k?st, 'ho?l?-/ [hol-uh-kawst, hoh-luh-]
>
> –noun 1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, esp. by fire.
> 2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering.
> 3. (usually initial capital letter) the systematic mass slaughter of
> European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II (usually prec.
> by the).
> ------

>
> Questions, you stupid motherfucker? As you can see, you stupid motherfucker,
> your insane boob.farts have absolutely no effect whatsoever on REALITY.
>

Is that your "fact"? A definition of the word "holocaust"?
Seems pretty clear to me, I don't dispute it. What's
the controversy?

-ranting snipped-
>
> ABSTRACT:
> ...the authors found that participants, scoring in the bottom quartile

> on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
> performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the

> 12th percentile, Peter Principle estimated himself to be in the 62nd.

Message has been deleted

leonox1

unread,

Nov 23, 2009, 11:28:10 PM11/23/09

On Nov 19, 10:13 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:59:37 -0800 (PST), leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Nov 18, 12:32 am, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >-ranting snipped-
>
> >> ------
> >> hol·o·caust /'h?l??k?st, 'ho?l?-/ [hol-uh-kawst, hoh-luh-]
>
> >> –noun 1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, esp. by fire.
> >> 2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering.
> >> 3. (usually initial capital letter) the systematic mass slaughter of
> >> European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II (usually prec.
> >> by the).
> >> ------
>
> >> Questions, you stupid motherfucker? As you can see, you stupid motherfucker,
> >> your insane boob.farts have absolutely no effect whatsoever on REALITY.
>
> >Is that your "fact"? A definition of the word "holocaust"?
>

> Um, heh, heh, yes, Dip Thunker it is a FACT that there are very different
> definitions for "holocaust" and "Holocaust," heh heh, that "subliterate,"
> heh heh, is a real word with a real definition, heh heh, just as it is a
> FACT that your subliterate stupid asshole sneering proves you obviously
> didn't know that, heh heh.
>
> Logic: It's not just for breakfast anymore

>
> >Seems pretty clear to me, I don't dispute it.
>

> Uh huh. Sure. Whatever you say....
>
> So, when you sneered...
>
> ""subliterate"... heh heh"
>
> ...what you REALLY meant to say was, "Of course I know that subliterate is a
> real word with a real definition and its usage is entirely apropos in
> context"
>
> That about sum it up, lying maroon? That your story, is it, Dip Thunker?
> Good luck selling that huge, steaming pile of shit, heh heh...
>
> >What's
> >the controversy?
>
> There is no controversy. There's your subliterate idiot.fart and there's
> REALITY. And the reality is you're a lying subliterate buffoon, case closed.
>
> ---
> Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
> ------
> Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?
>
> http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
> © 1999 by the American Psychological Association
> December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134
>
> Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
> Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments
>
> Justin Kruger and David Dunning
> Department of Psychology
> Cornell University
>
> ABSTRACT:
> ...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile

> on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
> performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the

> 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.

Now, no need to get upset. I didn't mean to imply any derision on
your intelligence (or lack thereof)

plainolamerican

unread,

Nov 24, 2009, 1:18:10 AM11/24/09

On Nov 7, 7:35 am, Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> From Salon, 11/6/09:http://www.salon.com/news/tea_parties/index.html?story=/politics/war_...
>
> Wiesel slams tea partiers over Holocaust signs
>
> The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right
> are making to genocide
>

> By Alex Koppelman
>
> Unfortunately, it seems that whether it's on the Internet or in real
> life, Godwin's Law always finds a way to prove itself again.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
>
> People manage to use Nazi and Holocaust references in the most poorly
> considered of ways, as if they're unaware of the true horror that was
> the slaughter of millions of innocent people.
>
> That sort of thing has been happening all too frequently during
> protests against Democratic healthcare reform plans, and one of the
> more shocking examples was on display at the protest on Capitol Hill
> Thursday: A banner that featured a picture of naked, emaciated bodies
> stacked in a pile, with text reading, "National Socialist Health Care:
> Dachau, Germany -- 1945."http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/1.jpg
>
> Now, someone with credibility on the issue that's all too real has
> spoken out against these comparisons.
>
> Elie Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor and author, put out a statement
> through his foundation's Twitter account.
>
> It reads simply, "Elie Wiesel on the GOP Tea Party's anti-Semitism and
> Holocaust comparisons: 'This kind of political hatred is indecent and
> disgusting.'"
>
> _______________________________________________________
>

> There must be people who remember World War II and the Holocaust who
> can help us get out of this rut.
>
> Martin Scorsese
>
> Harry

There must be people who remember World War II and the Holocaust who
can help us get out of this rut.

---
which holocaust?

Message has been deleted

leonox1

unread,

Nov 24, 2009, 11:57:45 AM11/24/09

On Nov 19, 10:13 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:59:37 -0800 (PST), leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com>
> wrote:

> That about sum it up, lying maroon? That your story, is it, Dip Thunker?
> Good luck selling that huge, steaming pile of shit, heh heh...
>
> >What's
> >the controversy?
>
> There is no controversy. There's your subliterate idiot.fart and there's
> REALITY. And the reality is you're a lying subliterate buffoon, case closed.
>
> ---

Oh, And what was the "lie" I said? You can post it right here:

____________________________________________________

Message has been deleted

leonox1

unread,

Nov 24, 2009, 9:25:36 PM11/24/09

On Nov 24, 5:46 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:57:45 -0800 (PST), leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Nov 19, 10:13 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:59:37 -0800 (PST), leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> That about sum it up, lying maroon? That your story, is it, Dip Thunker?
> >> Good luck selling that huge, steaming pile of shit, heh heh...
>
> >> >What's
> >> >the controversy?
>
> >> There is no controversy. There's your subliterate idiot.fart and there's
> >> REALITY. And the reality is you're a lying subliterate buffoon, case closed.
>
> >> ---
> >Oh, And what was the "lie" I said? You can post it right here:
>

I noticed you didn't answer the question. Are you backing away from
your claim?

> Um, so your problem is with the "lying" part? So, your point is yes, it was
> a subliterate idiot.fart by a subliterate buffoon?
>
> I couldn't agree more.
>
> Boy, howdy, yooz shore izza klever won! A reel troo jeen-yus yooz izza! A
> very-table master of strategery, boy howdy!

>
> ---
> Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
> ------
> Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?
>
> http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
> © 1999 by the American Psychological Association
> December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134
>
> Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
> Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments
>
> Justin Kruger and David Dunning
> Department of Psychology
> Cornell University
>

> ABSTRACT:
> ...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile

> on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
> performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the

> 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.

Message has been deleted

leonox1

unread,

Nov 25, 2009, 7:38:55 AM11/25/09

On Nov 24, 10:12 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:25:36 -0800 (PST), leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Nov 24, 5:46 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:57:45 -0800 (PST), leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On Nov 19, 10:13 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:59:37 -0800 (PST), leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> That about sum it up, lying maroon? That your story, is it, Dip Thunker?
> >> >> Good luck selling that huge, steaming pile of shit, heh heh...
>
> >> >> >What's
> >> >> >the controversy?
>
> >> >> There is no controversy. There's your subliterate idiot.fart and there's
> >> >> REALITY. And the reality is you're a lying subliterate buffoon, case closed.
>
> >> >> ---
> >> >Oh, And what was the "lie" I said? You can post it right here:
> >I noticed you didn't answer the question. Are you backing away from
> >your claim?
>

> Nah, I'm jess fuckin' with your stupid goober ass. Sure, it ain't much of a
> challenge, but it's not often that you get an idiot on the hook who proudly
> proclaims his own stupidity. Over and over. For example...

So you concede you were making false claims. Wouldn't that mean you're
the liar?

>
> >> Um, so your problem is with the "lying" part? So, your point is yes, it was
> >> a subliterate idiot.fart by a subliterate buffoon?
>
> >> I couldn't agree more.
>
> >> Boy, howdy, yooz shore izza klever won! A reel troo jeen-yus yooz izza! A
> >> very-table master of strategery, boy howdy!
>

> See what I mean? Ya jess cain't buy stupid THAT fucking funny...
>
> Apparently you are completely unfamiliar with the first rule of holes. How
> terribly entertaining! By all means,luser, dig away!
>
> Now, maroon, before I deign to answer your latest little idiot.fart, no
> doubt you'll be anxious to first answer the questions I 've put to your
> stupid goober ass, yes? After all, fair is fair. By all means, do. Begin...
>
> Let's review, Dip Thunker the various questions your hypocritical stupid ass
> has previously ignored whilst DEMANDING I answer your pitiful little
> idiot.fart...
>
> ------
> I'll take that as your WATB subliterate stupid goober ass can't even ADDRESS
> anything of the FACTS I've presented, much less refute any of them in any

> way.
>
> Or can you? Can you actually refute ANYTHING I've said or are you every bit
> the ignorant subliterate stupid asshole you play here so well?

> ------
>
> And...
>
> ------
> So, now that you've volunteered that you are, indeed, a subliterate ignorant
> stupid asshole, no doubt you'll be anxious to REFUTE something//anything in
> the following....
>
> BWA HA HA HA HA HA, whew! Just kidding, maroon. Nobody expects your ignorant
> stupid asshole bigoted goober ass to actually address REALITY.
> ------
>
> And...
>
> ------
> So, how, exactly, would one deride ON something as opposed, to, say,simply
> deriding something or, in this case, implying derision OF something?
> ------
>
> So, how's that petard fit, maroon? Look familiar, does it? It should. After
> all, it's your own...
>
> Now, any other painfully STUPID ploys you'd like to blindly uncork for the
> amusement of those of us with thumbs? Oh, by all means, do...
>
> Logic: It's not just for breakfast anymore.

leonox1

unread,

Nov 25, 2009, 9:13:26 PM11/25/09

> > >> >> ---
> > >> >Oh, And what was the "lie" I said? You can post it right here:
> > >I noticed you didn't answer the question. Are you backing away from
> > >your claim?
>
> > Nah, I'm jess fuckin' with your stupid goober ass. Sure, it ain't much of a
> > challenge, but it's not often that you get an idiot on the hook who proudly
> > proclaims his own stupidity. Over and over. For example...
>
> So you concede you were making false claims. Wouldn't that mean you're
> the liar?

Ah, silenced at last.

Message has been deleted

leonox1

unread,

Dec 2, 2009, 10:04:06 PM12/2/09

On Dec 1, 11:58 pm, Peter Principle <petesfe...@SNIPITgmail.com>
wrote:
-snip-

> >Fat stupid lonely slobs like you may spend their holidays farting nonsense
> >to Usenet, but FYI, those of us with triple digit IQs do not.

>
> >Let's review, Dip Thunker the various questions your hypocritical stupid ass
> >has previously ignored whilst DEMANDING I answer your pitiful little
> >idiot.fart...
>
> >------
> >I'll take that as your WATB subliterate stupid goober ass can't even ADDRESS
> >anything of the FACTS I've presented, much less refute any of them in any
> >way.
>
> >Or can you? Can you actually refute ANYTHING I've said or are you every bit
> >the ignorant subliterate stupid asshole you play here so well?
>

> Well, then, ok, ignorant subliterate stupid asshole it is. Glad we finally
> got that cleared up...
>

"goober ass" heh heh...cute

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