Re: Hispanic "Artist" can't Spell
BuccaneerJuan
racists in here, and they claim that English is their first (and only)
language.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Every patriotic America needs to see Fahrenheit 9/11
Drug free, no-spin radio: http://www.airamericaradio.com/
Democracy in action: http://www.moveon.org
Like father, like son. One term.
Robert not Roberto
"BuccaneerJuan" <buccan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041008125903...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> Funny, considering how poor the spelling and English skills are among the
> racists in here, and they claim that English is their first (and only)
> language.
>
"art" and is going to be paid to correct her mistakes.
BuccaneerJuan
Then I would say that she did OK. If anyone has a bitch, it's with whoever was
supposed to supervise her work. Othewise, she's an artist and she is getting
paid to make an 'adjustment' not a correction.
~~~~~~~~~~~
A great war leaves the country with three armies - an army
of cripples, an army of mourners, and an army of thieves.
-German proverb
Robert not Roberto
>>But they aren't getting paid to post here. She was being paid to create
>>the
>>"art" and is going to be paid to correct her mistakes.
>
> Then I would say that she did OK. If anyone has a bitch, it's with
> whoever was
> supposed to supervise her work. Othewise, she's an artist and she is
> getting
> paid to make an 'adjustment' not a correction.
>
Good point about supervision but did you notice that she doesn't offer any
appologies? Like it's okay to misspell Einstein's name. I'd like to see
the City of Livermore misspell her name when they cut the check.
David Eduardo
"Robert not Roberto" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:b6ydnRDgLPx...@comcast.com...
She readily accepted that she should make the changes, and asked only for
travel expenses. The explanation is valid; it is hard to see words when you
are making them out of tiles... she asked why no one at during the project
or its dedication noticed while she was there.
Se decided not to go since she had received considerable hate mail and even
threatening phone messages from hate groups.
>
>
American - Targeted for Genocide
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
news:BhL9d.26984$QJ3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Robert not Roberto" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:b6ydnRDgLPx...@comcast.com...
>>
>> "BuccaneerJuan" <buccan...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:20041008170109...@mb-m12.aol.com...
>>
>>>>But they aren't getting paid to post here. She was being paid to create
>>>>the
>>>>"art" and is going to be paid to correct her mistakes.
>>>
>>> Then I would say that she did OK. If anyone has a bitch, it's with
>>> whoever was
>>> supposed to supervise her work. Othewise, she's an artist and she is
>>> getting
>>> paid to make an 'adjustment' not a correction.
>>>
>> Good point about supervision but did you notice that she doesn't offer
>> any appologies? Like it's okay to misspell Einstein's name. I'd like
>> to see the City of Livermore misspell her name when they cut the check.
>
>
> She readily accepted that she should make the changes, and asked only for
> travel expenses.
"A divided City Council voted 3-2 on Monday to pay artist Maria
Alquilar $6,000 -- plus expenses -- to correct the errors ..."
Quite a bit more than travel expenses, Poncho Disney, Presidente of
programming at Univision.
> The explanation is valid; it is hard to see words when you are making them
> out of tiles... she asked why no one at during the project or its
> dedication noticed while she was there.
>
She touted herself off as a professional. She used drawings to formulate
the design. At some point she should have included the words on her
drawings. It was highly unprofessional for her to make additions or changes
to her design without adding them to the drawings or layout of the project.
Only a crass amatuer would attempt to make such radical changes to a project
without revising the blueprints.
She submitted a portfolio of drawings and descriptions of the project in
progress to the City Council. They did not include any mention of words
being used in the final structure. She was deceitful in what she presented
to the City Council.
She is a blooming idiot if she intended to spell the words correctly, and
did not bother to look them up to make sure of correct spellings before she
etched them in granite with her dumb ass signature scrawled all over it. It
obviously would not have hurt her in the least to learn something of the
luminaries whose names she was using in her art.
If she did intend to misspell the names from the beginning, she has
demonstrated complete disrespect for the City Council, the taxpayers, the
value of education, complete insensitivity for American culture, and made a
mockery of professionalism by not informing the funders of the project of
her intentions.
It is true that the misspellings could have easily been overlooked during
the actual construction phase.
It should have been noticed at some point during the construction phase, and
construction should have been halted. Surely the ignorant Latina was not
doing all the labor alone. Surely the hired laborers were working from some
kind of layout or blue print. Surely all the laborers were not Hispanics
who did not speak enough English to notice spelling errors.
And it speaks volumes about the quality of people elected to city council
offices who did not notice the errors long before dedication. Even the $2
an hour waitress checks the order for correctness before she serves it up to
the public.
> Se decided not to go since she had received considerable hate mail and
> even threatening phone messages from hate groups.
>
What a pity she has not decided to keep going. Maybe she needs a few more
hate mails and threatening phone calls to convince her to keep pounding sand
all the way out of the country.
It's what comes from the clash of incompatible cultures and government
sponsored genocide.
It's what comes from ignorant, treasonous politicians using third world
labor on public works projects.
If she can't stand the heat, she needs to get to Hell out of the kitchen.
The angry taxpayers she heard from are not going anywhere.
I also think the city council members who chose her to do the project need
to be digging into their personal bank accounts to have her defacement of
public property removed. They should have known better and ignorance is no
excuse for misuse of public funds.
--
Definition of US Immigration Policy:
Main Entry: geno·cide
Pronunciation: 'je-n&-"sId
Function: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or
cultural group
--
The United Nations uses a definition of racist discrimination, laid out in
the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial
Discrimination and adopted in 1965:
"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race,
colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or
effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on
an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political,
economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life." ([1]
(http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/d_icerd.htm))
Robert not Roberto
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
news:BhL9d.26984$QJ3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> any appologies? Like it's okay to misspell Einstein's name. I'd like
>> to see the City of Livermore misspell her name when they cut the check.
>
> even threatening phone messages from hate groups.
>
not the least bit professional. If she was, she would take responsibility
for her mistakes and quitely fix them at no charge to the City of Livermore.
David Eduardo
"American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote in
message news:10mflcs...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:BhL9d.26984$QJ3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> travel expenses.
>
> "A divided City Council voted 3-2 on Monday to pay artist Maria
> Alquilar $6,000 -- plus expenses -- to correct the errors ..."
>
> Quite a bit more than travel expenses, ...
Travelling Y class from Miami and staying in reasonably comfortable hotels
for, let's say, two to three weeks and eating mid-priced meals would easily
go to that amount.
>
>> The explanation is valid; it is hard to see words when you are making
>> them out of tiles... she asked why no one at during the project or its
>> dedication noticed while she was there.
>>
>
> She touted herself off as a professional. She used drawings to formulate
> the design. At some point she should have included the words on her
> drawings. It was highly unprofessional for her to make additions or
> changes to her design without adding them to the drawings or layout of the
> project. Only a crass amatuer would attempt to make such radical changes
> to a project without revising the blueprints.
I see. So Renoir, Da Vinci, Monet. Picasso, Rivera and Reubens used paint by
numbers to create their masterpieces?
Give me a break. Art is not pre planned. A design concept may be, when you
are dealing with government, but the final rendition will be a product of
the concept and the inspiration.
Remember, if you are workin with tiles up close, you can not see the whole
picture. Yet all the authorities who watched th project over the months it
took to create and who were there for the innauguration never spotted the
errors. So why should we thik the artist would see them, either.?
> She submitted a portfolio of drawings and descriptions of the project in
> progress to the City Council. They did not include any mention of words
> being used in the final structure. She was deceitful in what she
> presented to the City Council.
See above. Art is about creation If they wanted something totally
pre-fabbed, they sould have used a pre-printed wallpaper diorama.
You are sure ignorant of the way art, including art in public places, works.
Even commissioned art is not photographically identical to a proposal or a
scetch. That is why the creators are called "artists."
>
> She is a blooming idiot if she intended to spell the words correctly, and
> did not bother to look them up to make sure of correct spellings before
> she etched them in granite with her dumb ass signature scrawled all over
> it.
All reports say we was working in tiles, not granite.
> It obviously would not have hurt her in the least to learn something of
> the luminaries whose names she was using in her art.
How do you inow she didn't?
>
> And it speaks volumes about the quality of people elected to city council
> offices who did not notice the errors long before dedication. Even the $2
> an hour waitress checks the order for correctness before she serves it up
> to the public.
Here we agree. It is senseless to hold up the artist as sole responsible for
something in a visual project seen by hundreds before she left town.
>
>> Se decided not to go since she had received considerable hate mail and
>> even threatening phone messages from hate groups.
>>
> What a pity she has not decided to keep going. Maybe she needs a few more
> hate mails and threatening phone calls to convince her to keep pounding
> sand all the way out of the country.
She is American.
David Eduardo
I see. An artist, of a class that is basically unsupported in America,
should spend $5 thousand or so of her own money to travel to a place where
even the local "authorities" did not notice the misspellings until someone
of the general public pointed them out. Right.
Most artists barely survive and don't have the discretionary funds or time
to do such a thing.
American - Targeted for Genocide
>
> "American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote in
> message news:10mflcs...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
>> news:BhL9d.26984$QJ3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>> She readily accepted that she should make the changes, and asked only
>>> for travel expenses.
>>
>> "A divided City Council voted 3-2 on Monday to pay artist Maria
>> Alquilar $6,000 -- plus expenses -- to correct the errors ..."
>
>>
>> Quite a bit more than travel expenses, ...
>
> Travelling Y class from Miami and staying in reasonably comfortable hotels
> for, let's say, two to three weeks and eating mid-priced meals would
> easily go to that amount.
>
Damn, you are obtuse. Or you are deliberately ignoring the facts. What
part of the "City Council voted 3-2 on Monday to PAY artist Maria Alquilar
$,6000 PLUS EXPENSES to correct the errors..." don't you understand?
Pretty fancy digs for that destitute starving latrina artist you are
apologizing for in your reply to Robert.
Greyhound
One Way Miami, FL to Livermore, CA
Fares For Selected Schedule 0407
Standard 1
Adult
$192.00
McDonald's
Breakfast Burrito with a filling of diced cheese, egg, etc. Around $1
Big Mac $2.28
According to an article in USA Today 13-Sep-02, in response to static sales
Burger King and McDonald's are introducing 99-cent value menus, a move made
by Taco Bell and Wendy's over ten years ago. This may be accompanied by a
corresponding reduction in the number of short term discount promotions.
McDonald's value menu will feature burgers, a fruit and yogurt parfait,
fries and soft drinks.
>>
>>> The explanation is valid; it is hard to see words when you are making
>>> them out of tiles... she asked why no one at during the project or its
>>> dedication noticed while she was there.
>>>
>>
>> She touted herself off as a professional. She used drawings to formulate
>> the design. At some point she should have included the words on her
>> drawings. It was highly unprofessional for her to make additions or
>> changes to her design without adding them to the drawings or layout of
>> the project. Only a crass amatuer would attempt to make such radical
>> changes to a project without revising the blueprints.
>
> I see. So Renoir, Da Vinci, Monet. Picasso, Rivera and Reubens used paint
> by numbers to create their masterpieces?
>
When did they contract with the city to provide an informational and
decorative theme to the structure of a public building?
And you forgot to mention MICHELANGELO who WAS commissioned to apply
artistic themes to public structures and works.
> Give me a break. Art is not pre planned. A design concept may be, when you
> are dealing with government, but the final rendition will be a product of
> the concept and the inspiration.
>
YOU give ALL OF US a break for a change.
Either the latrina is a crass, uneducated amateur who improperly conducted
her business, OR she deliberately set out to deface public property and
offend Americans by smearing and demeaning cultural and historical icons.
> Remember, if you are workin with tiles up close, you can not see the whole
> picture. Yet all the authorities who watched th project over the months it
> took to create and who were there for the innauguration never spotted the
> errors. So why should we thik the artist would see them, either.?
>
SOME people actually take pride in their work. OBVIOUSLY she does not. OR
she very deliberately and methodically set out to insult American taxpayers.
I wonder what the Cisten Chapel would have looked like if this ignorant
latrina had handled THAT job.
>> She submitted a portfolio of drawings and descriptions of the project in
>> progress to the City Council. They did not include any mention of words
>> being used in the final structure. She was deceitful in what she
>> presented to the City Council.
>
> See above. Art is about creation If they wanted something totally
> pre-fabbed, they sould have used a pre-printed wallpaper diorama.
>
So if you commission me to paint your family portrait and I hand you a
picture of apes swinging through the trees, are you still going to hand me
my $40,000.00 payment?
> You are sure ignorant of the way art, including art in public places,
> works. Even commissioned art is not photographically identical to a
> proposal or a scetch. That is why the creators are called "artists."
There are press releases all over the place defining exactly what you are.
Univision Communications Inc. ("Univision") is the leading Spanish-language
media company in the United States. Our powerhouse portfolio includes
Television, Radio, Music and Internet offerings that entertain and inform
more Hispanics each day than any other media company in the country. Our
television operations include the Univision Network, TeleFutura Network,
Galavisión and Univision and TeleFutura Television Groups. Univision also
owns and operates Univision Radio, Univision Music Group and Univision
Online. Univision holds a 50% interest in Mexico-based Disa Records, a
company specializing in regional Mexican music, a 50% interest in TuTv, a
joint venture formed to broadcast Televisa's pay television channels in the
U.S., and a non-voting minority interest in Entravision Communications
Corporation, a public Spanish-language media company. Headquartered in Los
Angeles, California, Univision was incorporated in Delaware in 1992 and its
stock is traded on the New York Stock Exchange (UVN). In February 2001,
Univision's stock was included in the S&P 500 index.
This Super Session will feature John Dickey, executive vice president,
Cumulus Media; David Gleason, president, programming, Univision Radio; Tom
Owens, senior vice president, programming, Clear Channel Communications; Pat
Paxton, senior vice president, programming, Entercom Communications; and
Mary Catherine Sneed, chief operating officer, Radio One.
>>
>> She is a blooming idiot if she intended to spell the words correctly, and
>> did not bother to look them up to make sure of correct spellings before
>> she etched them in granite with her dumb ass signature scrawled all over
>> it.
>
> All reports say we was working in tiles, not granite.
Deliberately obtuse, Poncho Disney.
>
>> It obviously would not have hurt her in the least to learn something of
>> the luminaries whose names she was using in her art.
>
> How do you inow she didn't?
Are you all shook up over this latrina being such a public boff and
nuisance? It shows in your spelling, which is usually a little better.
Jesus tits. If you're going to get your pantaloons in that hard of a twist,
turn on your spell checker, Presidente de Programación en Univisión.
If she studied any part of them, she couldn't have gotten much out of her
lessons if she can't even spell the names. None of the articles mentioned
it, but I have a sneaking suspicion this dumb bitch has a college diploma
stashed somewhere - on top of everything else. She should have kept her job
bussing tables and mopping floors, because college education was a complete
waste on her. In short, there is no evidence she could slap her ass with
both hands and a road map.
>>
>> And it speaks volumes about the quality of people elected to city council
>> offices who did not notice the errors long before dedication. Even the
>> $2 an hour waitress checks the order for correctness before she serves it
>> up to the public.
>
> Here we agree. It is senseless to hold up the artist as sole responsible
> for something in a visual project seen by hundreds before she left town.
She's not the only scumbag involved in this fraud and embarassment. But she
is certainly responsible for her part in it - whether by design or
stupidity.
>>
>>> Se decided not to go since she had received considerable hate mail and
>>> even threatening phone messages from hate groups.
>>>
>> What a pity she has not decided to keep going. Maybe she needs a few
>> more hate mails and threatening phone calls to convince her to keep
>> pounding sand all the way out of the country.
>
> She is American.
>
She is a perfect example of the deliberate and systematic destruction of a
political and cultural group of people.
She is a poster child for everything that has been wrong with US immigration
policy since 1965.
And it's still a damned shame she has not decided to keep right on going.
Appreciation for works of art insulting America can be found in any Latin
American country. We'll pay her moving expenses.
InfoGuy123
illegal aliens "David Eduardo" amd...@pacbell.com oh-so-predictably wrote:
"She readily accepted that she should make the changes, and asked only for
travel expenses."
What a shameless bitch she must be to ask for travel expenses so she could go
back and correct HER OWN many mistakes after she was paid thousands of taxpayer
dollars (a scandal in itself) for her unartistic "art"!
"The explanation is valid; it is hard to see words when you are making them out
of tiles"
LOL
Just when you think this laughable "Eduardo" can't get any more amusingly
ludicrous . . .
Presumably "Eduardo" also feels that builders of tall buildings who utilize
wrongly-hued bricks which mar the appearnce of structures they've been paid to
build should likewise be excused for their unprofessional lapses because,
doggone it, "it's hard to see them."
This is the Third World mindset that "Eduardo" typifies and defends.
Imagine Michaelangelo, in an "oversight," having made such a glaring mistake
when painting his Sistine Chapel. "Hey, don't blame me, stuff on that high
ceiling is hard to see!" LOL
"she asked why no one at during the project or its dedication noticed while
she was there."
She's apparently utterly clueless; perhaps even quite stupid, in fact.
Undoubtedly people DID notice her many embarassing errors but figured
(wrongly assuming she was a professional) that she'd eventually corect them.
Alternately, others who'd noticed her mistakes probably (unlike the good
folks who make this newsgroup a repository of truth) thought it too politically
incorrect to point her glaring spelling mistakes out to her.
"Se decided not to go since she had received considerable hate mail and even
threatening phone messages from hate groups.
"
So she says; I don't believe her.
One is reminded of the flaky, lying Claremont professor by the name of Dunn
who recently scrawled anti-Jewish epithets on her own car; fortunately, she was
stupid enough to do so in the presence of two fine Mexican-American women who
reported what they'd witnessed to police.
If there's anything to "hate" in this case, it's the fact that unprofessional
idiots such as this woman are given $40,000 contracts to create art but don't
even bother to review their own work enough to ensure it's mistake-free, not to
mention without the NUMEROUS embarrassing mistakes this lady's work contained.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty ... servitude better than ... freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms ... May your
chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:PXU9d.8788$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>> Alquilar $6,000 -- plus expenses -- to correct the errors ..."
>>
>>>
>>> Quite a bit more than travel expenses, ...
>>
>> easily go to that amount.
>>
>
>
> Damn, you are obtuse. Or you are deliberately ignoring the facts. What
> part of the "City Council voted 3-2 on Monday to PAY artist Maria Alquilar
> $,6000 PLUS EXPENSES to correct the errors..." don't you understand?
Well pardon me. I was trying to show that she would definitely incur several
thousand (my guess is about $4,000 for 3 weeks) in expenses, plus the loss
of time. Since most artists do not make a great deal, $6,000 for redoing a
piece that WAS ACCEPTED at a formal unveiling was quite reasonable.
>
> Pretty fancy digs for that destitute starving latrina artist you are
> apologizing for in your reply to Robert.
>
> Greyhound
> One Way Miami, FL to Livermore, CA
> Fares For Selected Schedule 0407
> Standard 1
> Adult
> $192.00
You can fly back and forth for $400 to $600. When you Greyhound, you have to
have meals, etc., and arrive in no shape to work. In addition, shipping
tools and such by Greyhound is idiotic.
>
> McDonald's
> Breakfast Burrito with a filling of diced cheese, egg, etc. Around $1
> Big Mac $2.28
Healthy.
> According to an article in USA Today 13-Sep-02, in response to static
> sales Burger King and McDonald's are introducing 99-cent value menus, a
> move made by Taco Bell and Wendy's over ten years ago. This may be
> accompanied by a corresponding reduction in the number of short term
> discount promotions. McDonald's value menu will feature burgers, a fruit
> and yogurt parfait, fries and soft drinks.
Even the US Government per diem suggests somewhere around $60 per day for
meals, but it varies by agency and location in the US.
>
>> I see. So Renoir, Da Vinci, Monet. Picasso, Rivera and Reubens used paint
>> by numbers to create their masterpieces?
>>
>
> When did they contract with the city to provide an informational and
> decorative theme to the structure of a public building?
> And you forgot to mention MICHELANGELO who WAS commissioned to apply
> artistic themes to public structures and works.
Yes, but Michelangelo took a theme as suggested and wildly modified it in
execution.
You are confusing a draftsman with an artist.
The city hired an artist. Otherwise, they could have painted the wall.
>
>> Give me a break. Art is not pre planned. A design concept may be, when
>> you are dealing with government, but the final rendition will be a
>> product of the concept and the inspiration.
>>
>
> YOU give ALL OF US a break for a change.
> Either the latrina is a crass, uneducated amateur who improperly conducted
> her business, OR she deliberately set out to deface public property and
> offend Americans by smearing and demeaning cultural and historical icons.
Neither you nor I know this. In all probability, what happened is what often
happens with typos at ad agencies in campaign presentations... everyone sees
them they way they designed the campaign, and thus do not see the errors as
they are reading their memory, not the symbols in front of them. In this
case, the artist probably did not see the errors as she was working on what
would be in computers, the pixel level. And if the city authorities did not
see them in the unveiling, they must not have been obvious.
>
>> Remember, if you are workin with tiles up close, you can not see the
>> whole picture. Yet all the authorities who watched the project over the
>> months it took to create and who were there for the inauguration never
>> spotted the errors. So why should we think the artist would see them,
>> either.?
>>
>
> SOME people actually take pride in their work. OBVIOUSLY she does not.
> OR she very deliberately and methodically set out to insult American
> taxpayers. I wonder what the Cisten Chapel would have looked like if this
> ignorant latrina had handled THAT job.
The Sistine Chaplel was also done by a Latino.
Again, the problem was not that the error was made, but that so many people,
like you, took the opportunity to insult Hispanics rather than saying,
"well, let's get it fixed" and moving on. Some of the hate mail was
published in Miami; I do not blame the artist for saying, "do it yourself."
>
>>> She submitted a portfolio of drawings and descriptions of the project in
>>> progress to the City Council. They did not include any mention of words
>>> being used in the final structure. She was deceitful in what she
>>> presented to the City Council.
>>
>> See above. Art is about creation If they wanted something totally
>> pre-fabbed, they sould have used a pre-printed wallpaper diorama.
>>
>
> So if you commission me to paint your family portrait and I hand you a
> picture of apes swinging through the trees, are you still going to hand me
> my $40,000.00 payment?
If I get a portrait that is art, I expect an artists view, with subtleties
that go beyond photography. If I wanted a mirror image, I would get a
photograph. Do you think the Mona Lisa looks 100% like the model?
In this case, she submitted a general description in a rough drawing. The
city accepted the project and the final version. This is not about the art,
it is about the spelling.
>
>> You are sure ignorant of the way art, including art in public places,
>> works. Even commissioned art is not photographically identical to a
>> proposal or a scetch. That is why the creators are called "artists."
>
> There are press releases all over the place defining exactly what you are.
And this has what, exactly, to do with art?
>
> Are you all shook up over this latrina being such a public boff and
> nuisance? It shows in your spelling, which is usually a little better.
> Jesus tits. If you're going to get your pantaloons in that hard of a
> twist, turn on your spell checker, Presidente de Programación en
> Univisión.
This is Usenet, I am dyslexic, and I really don't care about a few spell
errors. In most groups, one knows that ng messages are judged on coherence,
not spelling. I have never been able to spell in English, so I have no
excuse. It is a difficult, unintuitive language. And this ad hominem of
yours has nothing to do with the mural and its spelling errors.
P.S. It is the Sistine Chapel, not the Cistin Chapel. See? It is really
petty to do this... I knew what you meant, and did not really care if you
had typed it right.
InfoGuy123
taxpayer money to create a professional-level piece of art -- but who did not
even check over her work enough to note its numerous errors, who was
unapologetic after they were brought to her attention and who was scandalously
given ANOTHER $6,000 + expenses (!) to correct her error-strewn work -- an
email at http://www.maria-alquilar.com/
InfoGuy123
http://www.maria-alquilar.com/2level/2installation.html :
"In 1990, the United States General Service Administration presented her with
his highest achievement award for Art In Architecture for the design and
execution of the work Bien Venida Y Vaya Con Dios (Welcome And Go With God)
located at the border crossing in San Luis, Arizona"
The United States General Service Administration awarded her?
FIGURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Oliver Costich
wrote:
>>
>>"BuccaneerJuan" <buccan...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:20041008125903...@mb-m28.aol.com...
>>> Funny, considering how poor the spelling and English skills are among the
>>> racists in here, and they claim that English is their first (and only)
>>> language.
>>>
>>But they aren't getting paid to post here. She was being paid to create the
>>"art" and is going to be paid to correct her mistakes.
>
>
>Then I would say that she did OK. If anyone has a bitch, it's with whoever was
>supposed to supervise her work. Othewise, she's an artist and she is getting
>paid to make an 'adjustment' not a correction.
>
>
How far can you spin your obvious bias? Who's supposed to supervise an
artist? Who supervised Picasso? Public art works are commissioned, not
run like a construction project.
Oliver Costich
<amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>"Robert not Roberto" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:b6ydnRDgLPx...@comcast.com...
>>
>> "BuccaneerJuan" <buccan...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:20041008170109...@mb-m12.aol.com...
>>
>>>>But they aren't getting paid to post here. She was being paid to create
>>>>the
>>>>"art" and is going to be paid to correct her mistakes.
>>>
>>> Then I would say that she did OK. If anyone has a bitch, it's with
>>> whoever was
>>> supposed to supervise her work. Othewise, she's an artist and she is
>>> getting
>>> paid to make an 'adjustment' not a correction.
>>>
>> Good point about supervision but did you notice that she doesn't offer any
>> appologies? Like it's okay to misspell Einstein's name. I'd like to see
>> the City of Livermore misspell her name when they cut the check.
>
>
>She readily accepted that she should make the changes, and asked only for
>travel expenses. The explanation is valid; it is hard to see words when you
>are making them out of tiles... she asked why no one at during the project
>or its dedication noticed while she was there.
There is no excuse for not checking your own work. Do you accept this
kind of bullshit excuse from people who work for you? I'd be
embarrassed to present something so badly done as finished work.
It's no harder to see words are misspelled in tile than on a page.
Why can't people simply admit she can't fucking spell?
>
>Se decided not to go since she had received considerable hate mail and even
>threatening phone messages from hate groups.
There's no excuse for that either.
>
>>
>>
>
H. Reader
>
> "Robert not Roberto" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:b6ydnRDgLPx...@comcast.com...
> >
> > "BuccaneerJuan" <buccan...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20041008170109...@mb-m12.aol.com...
> >
> >>>But they aren't getting paid to post here. She was being paid to
create
> >>>the
> >>>"art" and is going to be paid to correct her mistakes.
> >>
> >> Then I would say that she did OK. If anyone has a bitch, it's with
> >> whoever was
> >> supposed to supervise her work. Othewise, she's an artist and she is
> >> getting
> >> paid to make an 'adjustment' not a correction.
> >>
> > Good point about supervision but did you notice that she doesn't offer
any
> > appologies? Like it's okay to misspell Einstein's name. I'd like to
see
> > the City of Livermore misspell her name when they cut the check.
>
>
> She readily accepted that she should make the changes, and asked only for
> travel expenses. The explanation is valid; it is hard to see words when
you
> are making them out of tiles... she asked why no one at during the project
> or its dedication noticed while she was there.
That might be so, Dave, but isn't that why professionals are hired,
because they're masters of the craft?
Oliver Costich
<amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>"American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote in
>message news:10mflcs...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
>> news:BhL9d.26984$QJ3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>> She readily accepted that she should make the changes, and asked only for
>>> travel expenses.
>>
>> "A divided City Council voted 3-2 on Monday to pay artist Maria
>> Alquilar $6,000 -- plus expenses -- to correct the errors ..."
>
>>
>> Quite a bit more than travel expenses, ...
>
>Travelling Y class from Miami and staying in reasonably comfortable hotels
>for, let's say, two to three weeks and eating mid-priced meals would easily
>go to that amount.
>
>>
Nobody ever paid me to fix my mistakes. I ate every cent of cost and
minute of time. Why should anyone else pay anything for her to do the
job right?
>>> The explanation is valid; it is hard to see words when you are making
>>> them out of tiles... she asked why no one at during the project or its
>>> dedication noticed while she was there.
>>>
>>
>> She touted herself off as a professional. She used drawings to formulate
>> the design. At some point she should have included the words on her
>> drawings. It was highly unprofessional for her to make additions or
>> changes to her design without adding them to the drawings or layout of the
>> project. Only a crass amatuer would attempt to make such radical changes
>> to a project without revising the blueprints.
>
>I see. So Renoir, Da Vinci, Monet. Picasso, Rivera and Reubens used paint by
>numbers to create their masterpieces?
>
>Give me a break. Art is not pre planned. A design concept may be, when you
>are dealing with government, but the final rendition will be a product of
>the concept and the inspiration.
Who inspired her to not check her own work?
>
>Remember, if you are workin with tiles up close, you can not see the whole
>picture. Yet all the authorities who watched th project over the months it
>took to create and who were there for the innauguration never spotted the
>errors. So why should we thik the artist would see them, either.?
Bullshit. You can step back and see the whole thing or you can verify
it letter by letter. The bottom line is she can't spell and was too
lazy or ignorant to check spellings.
You hire an electricin to wire your house and he does it wrong. Is it
your fault for not checking his work?
They made the mistake of believing the artist was educated and
competent and they were wrong. The artist didn't see them as errors
because she didn't know they were wrong.
>
>> She submitted a portfolio of drawings and descriptions of the project in
>> progress to the City Council. They did not include any mention of words
>> being used in the final structure. She was deceitful in what she
>> presented to the City Council.
>
>See above. Art is about creation If they wanted something totally
>pre-fabbed, they sould have used a pre-printed wallpaper diorama.
It's not anti-art to do a detailed sketch of the finished work. It's
done all the time especially when publicly funded. Being "creative"
does mean you have to not plan or check anything.
>
>You are sure ignorant of the way art, including art in public places, works.
>Even commissioned art is not photographically identical to a proposal or a
>scetch. That is why the creators are called "artists."
>>
>> She is a blooming idiot if she intended to spell the words correctly, and
>> did not bother to look them up to make sure of correct spellings before
>> she etched them in granite with her dumb ass signature scrawled all over
>> it.
>
>All reports say we was working in tiles, not granite.
Who cares? She can't spell and that's unacceptable when doing a work
for public display. I understand the work was to celebrate education.
Some celebration.
>
>> It obviously would not have hurt her in the least to learn something of
>> the luminaries whose names she was using in her art.
>
>How do you inow she didn't?
Because she would have not mispelled so many names. It was NOT a
matter of simply missong letteres like in "Einstein". Others were
clealy attempts to spell the names as they sounded to here. To not
check the spellings for such a work is arrogant and stupid.
>>
>> And it speaks volumes about the quality of people elected to city council
>> offices who did not notice the errors long before dedication. Even the $2
>> an hour waitress checks the order for correctness before she serves it up
>> to the public.
>
>Here we agree. It is senseless to hold up the artist as sole responsible for
>something in a visual project seen by hundreds before she left town.
It's her responsibility to fix it at no cost, like anyone else who
fucks up a job.
>>
>>> Se decided not to go since she had received considerable hate mail and
>>> even threatening phone messages from hate groups.
>>>
>> What a pity she has not decided to keep going. Maybe she needs a few more
>> hate mails and threatening phone calls to convince her to keep pounding
>> sand all the way out of the country.
>
>She is American.
American or not, incompetent.
>
>
H. Reader
What is "pre planned?" Is that to plan before you plan? Anyhow,
most of the artists you mention above sketched on the canvas and
then applied the paint. You might call it paint by numbers, but
artists call it part of the process.
> A design concept may be, when you
> are dealing with government, but the final rendition will be a product of
> the concept and the inspiration.
And the process.
> Remember, if you are workin with tiles up close, you can not see the whole
> picture. Yet all the authorities who watched th project over the months it
> took to create and who were there for the innauguration never spotted the
> errors. So why should we thik the artist would see them, either.?
Of course the artist shouldn't see them, because the errors shouldn't
have existed, if the artist had worked competently.
> > She submitted a portfolio of drawings and descriptions of the project in
> > progress to the City Council. They did not include any mention of words
> > being used in the final structure. She was deceitful in what she
> > presented to the City Council.
>
> See above. Art is about creation If they wanted something totally
> pre-fabbed, they sould have used a pre-printed wallpaper diorama.
>
> You are sure ignorant of the way art, including art in public places,
works.
> Even commissioned art is not photographically identical to a proposal or a
> scetch. That is why the creators are called "artists."
Your argument is silly. The errors indicate the artist didn't
really have control of what she was doing, was sloppy, and
has some serious flaws in her own process.
Oliver Costich
Put the blame where it lies. She did it wrong, she needs to fix it, at
no cost. You'd expect no more or less from someone you hired to paint
your house and screwed it up, even if you didn't notice it right away.
>
>Most artists barely survive and don't have the discretionary funds or time
>to do such a thing.
What'd she do with the money she got for the work?
>
David Eduardo
"InfoGuy123" <infog...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041009165606...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> Predictable excuse-maker for everything Hispanic and part-time apologist
> for
> illegal aliens "David Eduardo" amd...@pacbell.com oh-so-predictably
> wrote:
>
> "She readily accepted that she should make the changes, and asked only for
> travel expenses."
>
> What a shameless bitch she must be to ask for travel expenses so she
> could go
> back and correct HER OWN many mistakes after she was paid thousands of
> taxpayer
> dollars (a scandal in itself) for her unartistic "art"!
I'll stop there. An artist in the US generally does not make enough money to
travel and work for a month for free. If the mistake was not noticed by the
customer at the time of delivery, caveat emptor applies. If they now want it
"fixed" they should pay.
David Eduardo
"Oliver Costich" <olc-ca...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:olmgm09nu7u8df1lh...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:10:07 GMT, "David Eduardo"
> <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>>
>>Travelling Y class from Miami and staying in reasonably comfortable hotels
>>for, let's say, two to three weeks and eating mid-priced meals would
>>easily
>>go to that amount.
>>
>>>
>
> Nobody ever paid me to fix my mistakes. I ate every cent of cost and
> minute of time. Why should anyone else pay anything for her to do the
> job right?
Probably because she could not afford to do it. I do not know may artists
that are prosperous enough to take 3 or 4 weeks off and work for free.
David Eduardo
"H. Reader" <history...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:y7Z9d.1089$y71.565@trnddc02...
>
>
> Your argument is silly. The errors indicate the artist didn't
> really have control of what she was doing, was sloppy, and
> has some serious flaws in her own process.
It just shows she can not spell. Bill the Brooklyn school system for that.
She is half Russian and half Latina, but 100% born American.
American - Targeted for Genocide
She just put $40K in her pocket. She can afford a Greyhound ticket and
McDonald's.
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:TmZ9d.1440$6q2...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Oliver Costich" <olc-ca...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:olmgm09nu7u8df1lh...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:10:07 GMT, "David Eduardo"
>>> <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Travelling Y class from Miami and staying in reasonably comfortable
>>>>hotels
>>>>for, let's say, two to three weeks and eating mid-priced meals would
>>>>easily
>>>>go to that amount.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Nobody ever paid me to fix my mistakes. I ate every cent of cost and
>>> minute of time. Why should anyone else pay anything for her to do the
>>> job right?
>>
>> Probably because she could not afford to do it. I do not know may artists
>> that are prosperous enough to take 3 or 4 weeks off and work for free.
>>
>
> She just put $40K in her pocket. She can afford a Greyhound ticket and
> McDonald's.
Which is probably meager pay for several months worth of work, materials,
rent of the atelier, tools, tiles, etc.
You obviously think art is a day-glo Elvis sprayed by a machine on a black
velvet blanket.
American - Targeted for Genocide
>
> "American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote in
> message news:10mgebm...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
>> news:PXU9d.8788$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>>> "A divided City Council voted 3-2 on Monday to pay artist Maria
>>>> Alquilar $6,000 -- plus expenses -- to correct the errors ..."
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quite a bit more than travel expenses, ...
>>>
>>> Traveling Y class from Miami and staying in reasonably comfortable
>>> hotels for, let's say, two to three weeks and eating mid-priced meals
>>> would easily go to that amount.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Damn, you are obtuse. Or you are deliberately ignoring the facts. What
>> part of the "City Council voted 3-2 on Monday to PAY artist Maria
>> Alquilar $,6000 PLUS EXPENSES to correct the errors..." don't you
>> understand?
>
> Well pardon me. I was trying to show that she would definitely incur
> several thousand (my guess is about $4,000 for 3 weeks) in expenses, plus
> the loss of time. Since most artists do not make a great deal, $6,000 for
> redoing a piece that WAS ACCEPTED at a formal unveiling was quite
> reasonable.
There is no excuse for you.
She SCREWED UP THE JOB.
She just put $40,000.00 in her pocket.
It doesn't matter if she can _afford_ to fix her screw up or not.
If nothing else, she should have been carrying some kind of insurance.
It is her burden to bear.
Just like any other professional contractor.
>>
>> Pretty fancy digs for that destitute starving latrina artist you are
>> apologizing for in your reply to Robert.
>>
>> Greyhound
>> One Way Miami, FL to Livermore, CA
>> Fares For Selected Schedule 0407
>> Standard 1
>> Adult
>> $192.00
>
> You can fly back and forth for $400 to $600. When you Greyhound, you have
> to have meals, etc., and arrive in no shape to work. In addition, shipping
> tools and such by Greyhound is idiotic.
According to you, she is destitute. She can't afford to fly.
Plenty of room in the cargo hold of a bus for artists tools.
And much cheaper than air freight.
Are you trying to say she is TOO GOOD to ride a bus?
>>
>> McDonald's
>> Breakfast Burrito with a filling of diced cheese, egg, etc. Around $1
>> Big Mac $2.28
>
> Healthy.
>
She can't afford to eat at five star restaraunts.
That is why she is called a starving artist.
McDonald's is on the corner.
So are tamale vendors.
>> According to an article in USA Today 13-Sep-02, in response to static
>> sales Burger King and McDonald's are introducing 99-cent value menus, a
>> move made by Taco Bell and Wendy's over ten years ago. This may be
>> accompanied by a corresponding reduction in the number of short term
>> discount promotions. McDonald's value menu will feature burgers, a fruit
>> and yogurt parfait, fries and soft drinks.
>
> Even the US Government per diem suggests somewhere around $60 per day for
> meals, but it varies by agency and location in the US.
>
The standard meal allowance is the federal M&IE rate. For travel in 2003,
the rate for most small localities in the United States is $30 a day from
January 1, 2003, through September 30, 2003, and $31 a day from October 1,
2003, through December 31, 2003.
Livermore is not on the list of high rate areas. Alameda county comes in at
$43.
She does not have to eat at five star restaraunts.
Unless you are saying she is TOO GOOD to eat at McDonald's.
>>
>>> I see. So Renoir, Da Vinci, Monet. Picasso, Rivera and Reubens used
>>> paint by numbers to create their masterpieces?
>>>
>>
>> When did they contract with the city to provide an informational and
>> decorative theme to the structure of a public building?
>> And you forgot to mention MICHELANGELO who WAS commissioned to apply
>> artistic themes to public structures and works.
>
> Yes, but Michelangelo took a theme as suggested and wildly modified it in
> execution.
>
> You are confusing a draftsman with an artist.
You are confusing an asshole with an artist.
>
> The city hired an artist. Otherwise, they could have painted the wall.
They obviously would have been better off if they had hired some the local
mestizos to do just that.
>>
>>> Give me a break. Art is not pre planned. A design concept may be, when
>>> you are dealing with government, but the final rendition will be a
>>> product of the concept and the inspiration.
>>>
>>
>> YOU give ALL OF US a break for a change.
>> Either the latrina is a crass, uneducated amateur who improperly
>> conducted her business, OR she deliberately set out to deface public
>> property and offend Americans by smearing and demeaning cultural and
>> historical icons.
>
> Neither you nor I know this. In all probability, what happened is what
> often happens with typos at ad agencies in campaign presentations...
> everyone sees them they way they designed the campaign, and thus do not
> see the errors as they are reading their memory, not the symbols in front
> of them. In this case, the artist probably did not see the errors as she
> was working on what would be in computers, the pixel level. And if the
> city authorities did not see them in the unveiling, they must not have
> been obvious.
"The art chose the words."
ROFLMAO!!!
You are pathetic, Poncho Disney.
Your anchor baby "artist" is an ignorant, crass amateur.
The errors were obvious, Poncho.
The city authorities being typical politicians were probably too busy
congratulating each other on frivolous doling out of taxpayer dollars to an
affirmitive action receipient to notice if a bottle rocket went off under
their ass.
>>
>>> Remember, if you are workin with tiles up close, you can not see the
>>> whole picture. Yet all the authorities who watched the project over the
>>> months it took to create and who were there for the inauguration never
>>> spotted the errors. So why should we think the artist would see them,
>>> either.?
>>>
>>
>> SOME people actually take pride in their work. OBVIOUSLY she does not.
>> OR she very deliberately and methodically set out to insult American
>> taxpayers. I wonder what the Cisten Chapel would have looked like if this
>> ignorant latrina had handled THAT job.
>
> The Sistine Chaplel was also done by a Latino.
>
Her ancestors were still cutting beating hearts of living bodies for human
sacrifice when he completed his work.
> Again, the problem was not that the error was made, but that so many
> people, like you, took the opportunity to insult Hispanics rather than
> saying, "well, let's get it fixed" and moving on. Some of the hate mail
> was published in Miami; I do not blame the artist for saying, "do it
> yourself."
>>
>>>> She submitted a portfolio of drawings and descriptions of the project
>>>> in progress to the City Council. They did not include any mention of
>>>> words being used in the final structure. She was deceitful in what she
>>>> presented to the City Council.
>>>
>>> See above. Art is about creation If they wanted something totally
>>> pre-fabbed, they sould have used a pre-printed wallpaper diorama.
>>>
>>
>> So if you commission me to paint your family portrait and I hand you a
>> picture of apes swinging through the trees, are you still going to hand
>> me my $40,000.00 payment?
>
> If I get a portrait that is art, I expect an artists view, with subtleties
> that go beyond photography. If I wanted a mirror image, I would get a
> photograph. Do you think the Mona Lisa looks 100% like the model?
>
Oh, baloney, Poncho Disney.
You would be squealing like a pig stuck under a gate if a contractor snagged
$40K, took liberties with your property that defaced it, and then claimed
artistic license.
You wouldn't be coming up with all this BS if the dumb bitch were not La
Raza - you know - that extreme and exclusive racist group of people you
belong to.
> In this case, she submitted a general description in a rough drawing. The
> city accepted the project and the final version. This is not about the
> art, it is about the spelling.
Duh. Yup. It is about spelling.
And her dismal lack of ability to do it.
As for the city officials, maybe they thought everybody else in the state
who could speak English had already moved out, and none of the illegal
aliens would notice.
>>
>>> You are sure ignorant of the way art, including art in public places,
>>> works. Even commissioned art is not photographically identical to a
>>> proposal or a scetch. That is why the creators are called "artists."
>>
>> There are press releases all over the place defining exactly what you
>> are.
>
> And this has what, exactly, to do with art?
I like to periodically remind everyone of your position and complicity in
leading the criminal activity of genocide.
You can think of it as - my artistic license. Free of charge.
>>
>> Are you all shook up over this latrina being such a public boff and
>> nuisance? It shows in your spelling, which is usually a little better.
>> Jesus tits. If you're going to get your pantaloons in that hard of a
>> twist, turn on your spell checker, Presidente de Programación en
>> Univisión.
>
> This is Usenet, I am dyslexic, and I really don't care about a few spell
> errors. In most groups, one knows that ng messages are judged on
> coherence, not spelling. I have never been able to spell in English, so I
> have no excuse. It is a difficult, unintuitive language. And this ad
> hominem of yours has nothing to do with the mural and its spelling errors.
>
I think it's cute how you normally use good spelling, grammar and
punctuation.
Until you get all wound up trying to spin out excuses and defend some idiot
just because they are hispanic, or latino, or mestizo, or La Raza, or
whatever in the Hell you want to call the rose by any other name that is
still genocide.
> P.S. It is the Sistine Chapel, not the Cistin Chapel. See? It is really
> petty to do this... I knew what you meant, and did not really care if you
> had typed it right.
>
Yup. That is a definite misspelling of a world famous historical location.
I look pretty stupid for misspelling it.
I sure am glad I didn't etch it in granite on a public library for
posterity.
I'm not - La Raza.
You don't have to make excuses for me.
American - Targeted for Genocide
She just put $40,000.00 in her pocket.
She was not broke.
It would not cost anywhere near $5,000.00.
$200.00 for a bus ticket. $100.00 a day for motel and meals. Times 21
days - three weeks times seven days. That comes to $2300.00. If she can't
afford that, there is bound to be a Salvation Army or a Catholic Church
around there somewhere.
She should have been carrying insurance.
Whether she can afford the cost of repairs for the damage she has done is
totally irrelevant.
She is responsible for her work.
Unless she wants to relinquish responsibility.
In which case the city can sand blast the thing and start over.
She would then owe a refund of the $40,000.00.
What the hell do you mean by "unsupported"?
Do you think taxpayers ought to be supporting this dumb bitch in the style
to which she would like to become accustomed?
Forget it!
If she was any good at her job, she could make a living.
Not all artists are starving. My best friend knocks down a damned good
living doing professional artwork - oil paintings, pastels, caricatures, and
commercial art.
American - Targeted for Genocide
99% of Americans can't afford to work and travel for a month for free!
What the hell makes her so special that she is not accountable for her
mistakes?
Your racism sticks out like a sore thumb when you go this far to defend La
Raza, Poncho Disney.
David Eduardo
>
>
> There is no excuse for you.
>
> She SCREWED UP THE JOB.
> She just put $40,000.00 in her pocket.
> It doesn't matter if she can _afford_ to fix her screw up or not.
> If nothing else, she should have been carrying some kind of insurance.
> It is her burden to bear.
> Just like any other professional contractor.
An artist is not a contractor. You do not understand art, or the principle
of caveat emptor in this type of commission.
>>
>> You can fly back and forth for $400 to $600. When you Greyhound, you have
>> to have meals, etc., and arrive in no shape to work. In addition,
>> shipping tools and such by Greyhound is idiotic.
>
> According to you, she is destitute. She can't afford to fly.
> Plenty of room in the cargo hold of a bus for artists tools.
> And much cheaper than air freight.
> Are you trying to say she is TOO GOOD to ride a bus?
You would expect someoen who is going to do cretive work to take a three day
bus trip, carrying thousands of dollars worth of supplies and tools, on a
bus? we are not talking about a grape picker. The reason many businesses
require executives to fly business class is that they know that a tired
traveler is of no value.
>
> She can't afford to eat at five star restaraunts.
> That is why she is called a starving artist.
> McDonald's is on the corner.
> So are tamale vendors.
You are delirious. She gave no warranty with the work, it was accepted after
being unveiled, and she left. If they want her back, then they pay the cost.
If having a part Russian and part Latina Brooklynite fix a mosaic is going
to create hate mail, the artist is certainly within her rights in not
wanting to go to the scene of the problem.
>>
>> Even the US Government per diem suggests somewhere around $60 per day for
>> meals, but it varies by agency and location in the US.
>>
>
> The standard meal allowance is the federal M&IE rate. For travel in 2003,
> the rate for most small localities in the United States is $30 a day from
> January 1, 2003, through September 30, 2003, and $31 a day from October 1,
> 2003, through December 31, 2003.
> Livermore is not on the list of high rate areas. Alameda county comes in
> at $43.
> She does not have to eat at five star restaraunts.
> Unless you are saying she is TOO GOOD to eat at McDonald's.
McDonalds is not good for anyone.
>>>
>>> YOU give ALL OF US a break for a change.
>>> Either the latrina is a crass, uneducated amateur who improperly
>>> conducted her business, OR she deliberately set out to deface public
>>> property and offend Americans by smearing and demeaning cultural and
>>> historical icons.
She is not just Latin. She is half Latina and half Russian, brought up in
Brooklyn where she was born. She is as American as Fiorello Laguardia.
>
> The errors were obvious, Poncho.
Then why did none of dozens of persons viewing the work while being done and
at the unveiling see them. Ha.
>
> Her ancestors were still cutting beating hearts of living bodies for human
> sacrifice when he completed his work.
I did not know they did that in Russia... or Brooklyn.
>
> Oh, baloney, Poncho Disney.
> You would be squealing like a pig stuck under a gate if a contractor
> snagged $40K, took liberties with your property that defaced it, and then
> claimed artistic license.
> You wouldn't be coming up with all this BS if the dumb bitch were not La
> Raza - you know - that extreme and exclusive racist group of people you
> belong to.
She is not La Raza, she is an American who has publicly stated she had to
learn about her heritage as an adolescent as she was raised in Brooklyn. By
definition, she is not "raza.2
David Eduardo
>
> 99% of Americans can't afford to work and travel for a month for free!
> What the hell makes her so special that she is not accountable for her
> mistakes?
> Your racism sticks out like a sore thumb when you go this far to defend La
> Raza, Poncho Disney.
She isn't "raza" by any extension of the imagination.
H. Reader
I don't care if she's Swedish and Chinese, she apparently
has some flaws in her artistic process, and she ought to
be held responsible for the flaws in her work.
H. Reader
Your idea of artists is less than accurate. I'm acquainted with some
artists -- probably a couple of dozen, and two of my best and oldest
friends are artists. The ones I'm merely acquainted with certainly seem
to earn a handsome living. The two who are my oldest and best
friends earn a huge living. One flies his own airplane.
Second, art is a business like any other. If a mechanic fails
to properly fix a car, then he's responsible. If the swimming
pool guy doesn't install a pump correctly, he isn't off the
hook by claiming that he barely makes enough money
to survive and is short on discretionary funds. Your
excuses don't make much sense.
InfoGuy123
who didn't even take the time to check the spelling of names (and were they
*ALL* the names of "dead white males such as "Shakespere" [sic]? An interesting
issue to research!) in her artwork (but she DID take the $40,000 fee) is the
ultimate evidence of his lack of seriousness in the immigration debate.
IMO, it's the proverbial "icing on the cake" indicating that he's NOT a
fair-minded participant in the discussion but, rather, a propagandizing,
rationalizing shill who'll make the most unsupportable claims to defend illegal
aliens and/or other Hispanics who obviously do wrong.
I feel he should be ignored by all those of whatever views regarding
immigration issues who wish to engage in meaningful discussion.
David Eduardo
> Folks, "David Eduardo's" latest shameless shilling for this Hispanic
> artist
> who didn't even take the time to check the spelling of names (and were
> they
> *ALL* the names of "dead white males such as "Shakespere" [sic]? An
> interesting
> issue to research!) in her artwork (but she DID take the $40,000 fee) is
> the
> ultimate evidence of his lack of seriousness in the immigration debate.
Take the ethnicity out of the argument. She is part Russian and part Latina;
she was born in Brooklyn. She is as American as you.
The issue is about whether someone esles among the hundreds who saw the work
should have spotted the errors and the controversy is about the hate mail
she has received from thelikes of people loike you blaming the errors on her
heritage.
American - Targeted for Genocide
And you obviously think because she is La Raza she should not be held
accountable for her actions.
--
The United Nations uses a definition of racist discrimination, laid out in
the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial
Discrimination and adopted in 1965:
"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race,
colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or
effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on
an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political,
economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life." ([1]
(http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/d_icerd.htm))
American - Targeted for Genocide
>
> "American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote in
> message news:10mhjgd...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>
>> There is no excuse for you.
>>
>> She SCREWED UP THE JOB.
>> She just put $40,000.00 in her pocket.
>> It doesn't matter if she can _afford_ to fix her screw up or not.
>> If nothing else, she should have been carrying some kind of insurance.
>> It is her burden to bear.
>> Just like any other professional contractor.
>
> An artist is not a contractor. You do not understand art, or the principle
> of caveat emptor in this type of commission.
In this case, she was a contractor.
She made a bid to obtain work.
The contract to complete the work was awarded to her based on the design
information she submitted during the bidding process.
It would be nice to think the city council members would not have awarded
her the contract had she included the misspelled words in her bid
submission. However, considering this did take place in CA, the politicians
were probably more absorbed in the ethnicity of the contractor than they
were in the quality of work the contractor was capable of producing.
>>>
>>> You can fly back and forth for $400 to $600. When you Greyhound, you
>>> have to have meals, etc., and arrive in no shape to work. In addition,
>>> shipping tools and such by Greyhound is idiotic.
>>
>> According to you, she is destitute. She can't afford to fly.
>> Plenty of room in the cargo hold of a bus for artists tools.
>> And much cheaper than air freight.
>> Are you trying to say she is TOO GOOD to ride a bus?
>
> You would expect someoen who is going to do cretive work to take a three
> day bus trip, carrying thousands of dollars worth of supplies and tools,
> on a bus? we are not talking about a grape picker. The reason many
> businesses require executives to fly business class is that they know that
> a tired traveler is of no value.
If she can't stand the heat, she should not have walked into the kitchen.
Admit it, Poncho: The latrina overreached her ability.
>>
>> She can't afford to eat at five star restaraunts.
>> That is why she is called a starving artist.
>> McDonald's is on the corner.
>> So are tamale vendors.
>
> You are delirious. She gave no warranty with the work, it was accepted
> after being unveiled, and she left. If they want her back, then they pay
> the cost. If having a part Russian and part Latina Brooklynite fix a
> mosaic is going to create hate mail, the artist is certainly within her
> rights in not wanting to go to the scene of the problem.
Yeah, latrinos are becoming world famous for making a mess and not cleaning
it up.
They have been sterotyped as incompetent and not accepting responsibilty for
their actions, and as evidenced by 15 million illegal aliens in the US -
they have a propensity to run from problems.
If the shoe fits, wear it.
>>>
>>> Even the US Government per diem suggests somewhere around $60 per day
>>> for meals, but it varies by agency and location in the US.
>>>
>>
>> The standard meal allowance is the federal M&IE rate. For travel in 2003,
>> the rate for most small localities in the United States is $30 a day from
>> January 1, 2003, through September 30, 2003, and $31 a day from October
>> 1, 2003, through December 31, 2003.
>> Livermore is not on the list of high rate areas. Alameda county comes in
>> at $43.
>> She does not have to eat at five star restaraunts.
>> Unless you are saying she is TOO GOOD to eat at McDonald's.
>
> McDonalds is not good for anyone.
Then there is a Salvation Army or a Catholic Church somewhere in the 'hood.
Beggars are not choosers. And according to you, this dumb bitch is a beggar.
She has $40,000.00 to find herself something to eat.
>>>>
>>>> YOU give ALL OF US a break for a change.
>>>> Either the latrina is a crass, uneducated amateur who improperly
>>>> conducted her business, OR she deliberately set out to deface public
>>>> property and offend Americans by smearing and demeaning cultural and
>>>> historical icons.
>
> She is not just Latin. She is half Latina and half Russian, brought up in
> Brooklyn where she was born. She is as American as Fiorello Laguardia.
It's the cultural traits of producing substandard work, accepting no
responsibility for her actions, and cowardice in running from her problems
that she gets from her latrina heritage that got her into trouble with this
project.
She is not American.
She might hold American citizenship. But that doesn't make her American.
American citizenship doesn't mean shit anymore.
Again, she is the poster child for everything that is wrong with immigration
policy since 1965.
>>
>> The errors were obvious, Poncho.
>
> Then why did none of dozens of persons viewing the work while being done
> and at the unveiling see them. Ha.
You want me to answer for the same bunch of scum bags who are encouraging CA
be the first state conquered by Mexico?
The pods probably had their nose stuck so far up her taco ape ass they
couldn't see anything until the miasma of fog lifted when she finally left
the county. If they did see it, they were scared to death of saying
anything to her because of exactly the reaction they are getting from her
now: refusal of responsibility, charges of racism, and attempts to soak
them for more money. They should have just put the old PC spin on it, and
done exactly what they are doing now, without consulting the amateur artist
who takes no responsibility for her work, and dedicated it in a second
ceremony as the "Find Waldo" joke on Livermore, with a bronze plaque
dedicated to the artist who made a laughingstock out of herself and the
entire city. She would begged for permission to get back out there and fix
her screw ups, free of charge.
>>
>> Her ancestors were still cutting beating hearts of living bodies for
>> human sacrifice when he completed his work.
>
> I did not know they did that in Russia... or Brooklyn.
She didn't get any smart genes from a Russian so stupid they got wadded up
with a raza to make an anchor baby.
American citizenship has been so cheapened by long term corrupt immigration
policies with the goal of genocide until birthplace is no longer a valid
litmus test for defining an American. Citizenship can be bought on any
street corner for $50. She exhibits none of the elements of character that
reflect in any way American values or creedos. She is not American. No
more than the 15 million illegal aliens are American.
>>
>> Oh, baloney, Poncho Disney.
>> You would be squealing like a pig stuck under a gate if a contractor
>> snagged $40K, took liberties with your property that defaced it, and then
>> claimed artistic license.
>> You wouldn't be coming up with all this BS if the dumb bitch were not La
>> Raza - you know - that extreme and exclusive racist group of people you
>> belong to.
>
> She is not La Raza, she is an American who has publicly stated she had to
> learn about her heritage as an adolescent as she was raised in Brooklyn.
> By definition, she is not "raza.2
>
Under the new rules of engagement as defined by a corrupted genocidal
government, she is not American.
Her culture and character illustrate very clearly she is a member of the
same seditionist cultural identity group you belong to: La Raza.
--
Definition of US Immigration Policy:
Main Entry: geno·cide
Pronunciation: 'je-n&-"sId
Function: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or
cultural group
--
American - Targeted for Genocide
If Hitler had been La Raza we would see David Gleason a.k.a. David Eduardo
making excuses for him and promoting his cause.
David Gleason as President of Programming at Univision is to La Raza what
Walt Disney is to mice.
He is our contemporary equivalent of Tokyo Rose.
His livelihood is enhanced by genocidal immigration policies.
American - Targeted for Genocide
I bet both her and the census bureau disagree with you.
And it is not how you personally defined membership qualifications for La
Raza recently.
"Looking inward to an imaginative world of fantasy inspired by her
Latin-American and Russian background, Maria Alquilar creates a personal
mythology..."
Oliver Costich
<amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>"Oliver Costich" <olc-ca...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:olmgm09nu7u8df1lh...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:10:07 GMT, "David Eduardo"
>> <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Travelling Y class from Miami and staying in reasonably comfortable hotels
>>>for, let's say, two to three weeks and eating mid-priced meals would
>>>easily
>>>go to that amount.
>>>
>>>>
>>
>> Nobody ever paid me to fix my mistakes. I ate every cent of cost and
>> minute of time. Why should anyone else pay anything for her to do the
>> job right?
>
>Probably because she could not afford to do it. I do not know may artists
>that are prosperous enough to take 3 or 4 weeks off and work for free.
>
Where's the 40 grand she took for a bad job? That artists are poor is
not the responsibility of the taxpayers. No one forced them to be
artists. Artists with talent and good marketing sense can do quite
well.
Oliver Costich
<amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>"American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote in
>message news:10mhbqk...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
>> news:TmZ9d.1440$6q2...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>> "Oliver Costich" <olc-ca...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:olmgm09nu7u8df1lh...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:10:07 GMT, "David Eduardo"
>>>> <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Travelling Y class from Miami and staying in reasonably comfortable
>>>>>hotels
>>>>>for, let's say, two to three weeks and eating mid-priced meals would
>>>>>easily
>>>>>go to that amount.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nobody ever paid me to fix my mistakes. I ate every cent of cost and
>>>> minute of time. Why should anyone else pay anything for her to do the
>>>> job right?
>>>
>>> Probably because she could not afford to do it. I do not know may artists
>>> that are prosperous enough to take 3 or 4 weeks off and work for free.
>>>
>>
>> She just put $40K in her pocket. She can afford a Greyhound ticket and
>> McDonald's.
>
>Which is probably meager pay for several months worth of work, materials,
>rent of the atelier, tools, tiles, etc.
The average household income is just over $40,000 a YEAR. It's good
money for a few months.
>
>You obviously think art is a day-glo Elvis sprayed by a machine on a black
>velvet blanket.
>
As long as "Elvis" isn't misspelled.
Oliver Costich
No. Blame her for not checking her work. You can't have it both ways.
First you claim the rror is explained by it being hard to see the
words when setting them in tile. Now it's that she can't spell but
it's someone else's fault.
The schools are the way they are because parents don't give a shit
about them anymore. Maybe we should blame her parents.
Oliver Costich
And her etnicity isn't the issue. Her stupidity and incompetence is.
Oliver Costich
One only has to look at her website to figure out that she's no
starving artist
Oliver Costich
You wouldn't say this if it was some guy who "fixed" your roof and it
leaked at the next rain.
Look at her website and tell me she's one of the poor starving
artists.
David Eduardo
>
> And you obviously think because she is La Raza she should not be held
> accountable for her actions.
She is not Raza and this is simply a business deal that has noting to do
with heritage, ethnicity or immigration.
You might start with the Brooklyn school system, however. Or with the dolts
in Livermore who did not spot the errors.
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:rT4ad.9742$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>
>> She isn't "raza" by any extension of the imagination.
>>
>
> I bet both her and the census bureau disagree with you.
> And it is not how you personally defined membership qualifications for La
> Raza recently.
"La raza" is a Mexican expression, used mostly by blue collar Mexicans and
Mexican Americans. It does not apply to this artist in any way.
Sañvadorans are not raza.
Ecuadorians are not raza.
Puerto Ricans are not raza.
Etc.
David Eduardo
The job was received by the customer. No comment was made at that time.
$40 k to produce a huge mosaic, including materials, shipping, labor, living
expenses, etc., is probably not very profitable. In fact, the work was done
two years ago, stored, and installed only after the long delayed building
was erected.
Caveat emptor applies with art and creative materials, too. Mabe even more
so.
In any case, a half-Russian Brooklynite has little to do with immigration.
If anything, perhaps this could be discussed in the context of today's
public schools.
>
David Eduardo
>
> The average household income is just over $40,000 a YEAR. It's good
> money for a few months.
The meager reports indicate that the $40 k included the creation, shipping,
materials, installation including subcontracting of masons, travel and
living expense.
$40 k is not going toleave much over after all of that.
David Eduardo
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 22:13:42 GMT, "David Eduardo"
> <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"H. Reader" <history...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>news:y7Z9d.1089$y71.565@trnddc02...
>>>
>>>
>>> Your argument is silly. The errors indicate the artist didn't
>>> really have control of what she was doing, was sloppy, and
>>> has some serious flaws in her own process.
>>
>>It just shows she can not spell. Bill the Brooklyn school system for that.
>>She is half Russian and half Latina, but 100% born American.
>>
> No. Blame her for not checking her work. You can't have it both ways.
> First you claim the rror is explained by it being hard to see the
> words when setting them in tile. Now it's that she can't spell but
> it's someone else's fault.
Whatever the case is, neither she not the buyer spotted it, and if they want
it fixed after accepting it, they pay. But, if it turns into a racial issue
or a bigotfest, then the artist is certainly justified in not showing up...
for reasons of personal safety.
David Eduardo
> One only has to look at her website to figure out that she's no
> starving artist
Yeah? It tells you how many she sells? Given the cost of maintaining a
studio, materials (these are not oils and canvas, in most cases), etc., I
would say she does ok but not great.
David Eduardo
Very different. Art can be seen at face value. Were the thing to start
falling apart, your analogy is correct.
>
> Look at her website and tell me she's one of the poor starving
> artists.
I can find hundreds of comparable sites... but posting prices and objects
does not mean they sell often.
American - Targeted for Genocide
I bet she and the census bureau disagree with you. She is La Raza.
And in your mind, because she is La Raza, she is not accountable for her
American - Targeted for Genocide
Then we can add too stupid to include the costs of production to the growing
list of her incompetency.
Just keep talking, Poncho Disney.
Every time you open your mouth to defend this idiot you dig yourself in a
little deeper.
--
Definition of US Immigration Policy:
Main Entry: geno·cide
Pronunciation: 'je-n&-"sId
Function: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or
cultural group
--
American - Targeted for Genocide
Obviously, caveat emptor applies stringently when dealing with La Raza since
they and the government consider themselves to be above reproach no matter
how grievous their offense and never take responsibility for their actions.
> In any case, a half-Russian Brooklynite has little to do with immigration.
> If anything, perhaps this could be discussed in the context of today's
> public schools.
>>
>
She is the poster child for everything that has been wrong with US
immigration policy since the 1965 Immigration Reform Act.
American - Targeted for Genocide
David is bombing out on making excuses for this twit!
American - Targeted for Genocide
>
> "American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote in
> message news:10minq8...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
>> news:rT4ad.9742$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>
>>>
>>> She isn't "raza" by any extension of the imagination.
>>>
>>
>> I bet both her and the census bureau disagree with you.
>> And it is not how you personally defined membership qualifications for La
>> Raza recently.
>
> "La raza" is a Mexican expression, used mostly by blue collar Mexicans and
The president of programming at Univision is blue collar work?
ROFLMAO!!!
> Mexican Americans. It does not apply to this artist in any way.
>
Sure it does. It goes with her heritage and her character.
> Sańvadorans are not raza.
> Ecuadorians are not raza.
> Puerto Ricans are not raza.
> Etc.
>
ROFLMAO!!!
That's not what you said a while back!
Careful, David. That knot you are getting in your tongue from all the
double speak will choke you!
Oliver Costich
<amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
Then she's as impaired businesswise as she she is in spelling.
>
>Caveat emptor applies with art and creative materials, too. Mabe even more
>so.
Why is that?
>
>In any case, a half-Russian Brooklynite has little to do with immigration.
>If anything, perhaps this could be discussed in the context of today's
>public schools.
>>
>
It has nothing to do with immigration. Stupidity knows no borders.
Oliver Costich
<amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>"Oliver Costich" <olc-ca...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:t6pim09aos7d52sp5...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 22:13:42 GMT, "David Eduardo"
>> <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"H. Reader" <history...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:y7Z9d.1089$y71.565@trnddc02...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your argument is silly. The errors indicate the artist didn't
>>>> really have control of what she was doing, was sloppy, and
>>>> has some serious flaws in her own process.
>>>
>>>It just shows she can not spell. Bill the Brooklyn school system for that.
>>>She is half Russian and half Latina, but 100% born American.
>>>
>> No. Blame her for not checking her work. You can't have it both ways.
>> First you claim the rror is explained by it being hard to see the
>> words when setting them in tile. Now it's that she can't spell but
>> it's someone else's fault.
>
>Whatever the case is, neither she not the buyer spotted it, and if they want
>it fixed after accepting it, they pay. But, if it turns into a racial issue
>or a bigotfest, then the artist is certainly justified in not showing up...
>for reasons of personal safety.
>
Nice waffle but she's still wrong, and if she had any integrity, she'd
fix it for free.
If you accept delivery of something and it's defective, don't you
expect the seller to make good on it?
Oliver Costich
Define "ok" versus "great". It's clear she does well enought to be
responsible for her mistakes. As I said before, if she had any
integrity, she'd fix it.
Oliver Costich
<amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>"Oliver Costich" <olc-ca...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:mgpim0lgucagod5i7...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 22:07:36 GMT, "David Eduardo"
>> <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>I'll stop there. An artist in the US generally does not make enough money
>>>to
>>>travel and work for a month for free. If the mistake was not noticed by
>>>the
>>>customer at the time of delivery, caveat emptor applies. If they now want
>>>it
>>>"fixed" they should pay.
>>>
>>
>> You wouldn't say this if it was some guy who "fixed" your roof and it
>> leaked at the next rain.
>
>Very different. Art can be seen at face value. Were the thing to start
>falling apart, your analogy is correct.
When it's hanging in a gallery, maybe. When it's commissioned, that's
another issue.
>>
>> Look at her website and tell me she's one of the poor starving
>> artists.
>
>I can find hundreds of comparable sites... but posting prices and objects
>does not mean they sell often.
>
I don't think she's starving based on who she has been commissioned
by. In any case, that's irrelevant. She's responsible.
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:kOdad.10362$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote
>> in message news:10milu5...@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> And you obviously think because she is La Raza she should not be held
>>> accountable for her actions.
>>
>> She is not Raza and this is simply a business deal that has noting to do
>> with heritage, ethnicity or immigration.
>>
>> You might start with the Brooklyn school system, however. Or with the
>> dolts in Livermore who did not spot the errors.
>>
>
> I bet she and the census bureau disagree with you. She is La Raza.
> And in your mind, because she is La Raza, she is not accountable for her
> actions.
"La Raza" is a specific term that applies to some Mexicans. It does not
apply, nor is it ever used, by persons of other nationalities. For example,
were you to go to Puerto Rico and speak of it, you would get mystified
stares in return.
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:HSdad.10372$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> more so.
>>
>
> Obviously, caveat emptor applies stringently when dealing with La Raza
> since they and the government consider themselves to be above reproach no
> matter how grievous their offense and never take responsibility for their
> actions.
Please explain how a born Brooklynite who is half Russian. can be of "La
Raza" which includes, by definition, blue collar Mexicans.
>
>> In any case, a half-Russian Brooklynite has little to do with
>> immigration. If anything, perhaps this could be discussed in the context
>> of today's public schools.
>>>
>>
>
> She is the poster child for everything that has been wrong with US
> immigration policy since the 1965 Immigration Reform Act.
What in the world does this have to do with immigration. The artist was born
here.
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:1Qdad.10368$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> and
>> Mexican Americans. It does not apply to this artist in any way.
>>
>
> Sure it does. It goes with her heritage and her character.
>
>> Sańvadorans are not raza.
>> Ecuadorians are not raza.
>> Puerto Ricans are not raza.
>> Etc.
>>
>
> ROFLMAO!!!
> That's not what you said a while back!
Wrong. The term "La Raza" as in, "Viva la raza" is purely and totally
Mexican in origin and usage.
> Careful, David. That knot you are getting in your tongue from all the
> double speak will choke you!
There is no usage of the term except among Mexicans and the, only of a
certain socioeconomic group. A Mexican doctor in Colonia Polanco would not
consider himself... or herself... of "La raza" but an agave harvester from
Ocotlan might.
David Eduardo
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:58:15 GMT, "David Eduardo"
> <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>>
>>The job was received by the customer. No comment was made at that time.
>>
>>$40 k to produce a huge mosaic, including materials, shipping, labor,
>>living
>>expenses, etc., is probably not very profitable. In fact, the work was
>>done
>>two years ago, stored, and installed only after the long delayed building
>>was erected.
>
> Then she's as impaired businesswise as she she is in spelling.
The job was accepted and paid for. She offered to fix it for a moderate fee.
Instead, she got hate mail. I don't blame her from staying far away from the
location.
>
>>
>>Caveat emptor applies with art and creative materials, too. Mabe even more
>>so.
>
> Why is that?
Because art is subjective while a roof leak is not.
David Eduardo
>
> If you accept delivery of something and it's defective, don't you
> expect the seller to make good on it?
>
Not in something as subjective as art.
"Aw, the sky is the wrong color. Come fix it."
David Eduardo
>
> I don't think she's starving based on who she has been commissioned
> by. In any case, that's irrelevant. She's responsible.
>
And she was ready to fix it. However, the hate mail, some of which was
published in the Miami Herald, was enough to discourage any person from
going back to the location. Let them hire another artist or artisan to make
the minor corrections. Probably cheaper.
>
Scipio
> Folks, "David Eduardo's" latest shameless shilling for this Hispanic artist
>who didn't even take the time to check the spelling of names (and were they
>*ALL* the names of "dead white males such as "Shakespere" [sic]? An interesting
>issue to research!) in her artwork (but she DID take the $40,000 fee) is the
>ultimate evidence of his lack of seriousness in the immigration debate.
>
> IMO, it's the proverbial "icing on the cake" indicating that he's NOT a
>fair-minded participant in the discussion but, rather, a propagandizing,
>rationalizing shill who'll make the most unsupportable claims to defend illegal
>aliens and/or other Hispanics who obviously do wrong.
>
> I feel he should be ignored by all those of whatever views regarding
>immigration issues who wish to engage in meaningful discussion.
David is fifth column, always has been.
It apparently began when some kids called him a "greaser" in his
youth.
He is fairly good at it, as his people go (a very few are good, but
none convincing). But he always gives it away when some Hispanic or
Spanish person speaks on our side of the argument. They are traitors,
ya see... :S
>"If ye love wealth better than liberty ... servitude better than ... freedom,
>go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms ... May your
>chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
> - Samuel Adams
American - Targeted for Genocide
Yeah, Poncho Disney. Whatever you say.
She is La Raza in America.
American - Targeted for Genocide
>
> "American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote in
> message news:10mit7i...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
>> news:HSdad.10372$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>> Caveat emptor applies with art and creative materials, too. Mabe even
>>> more so.
>>>
>>
>> Obviously, caveat emptor applies stringently when dealing with La Raza
>> since they and the government consider themselves to be above reproach no
>> matter how grievous their offense and never take responsibility for their
>> actions.
>
> Please explain how a born Brooklynite who is half Russian. can be of "La
> Raza" which includes, by definition, blue collar Mexicans.
I'm not going to argue semantics with your stupid racist ass.
She's a fucking anchor baby whelped by a wetback.
She is a member of the racial/ethnic group you identify with.
>>
>>> In any case, a half-Russian Brooklynite has little to do with
>>> immigration. If anything, perhaps this could be discussed in the context
>>> of today's public schools.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> She is the poster child for everything that has been wrong with US
>> immigration policy since the 1965 Immigration Reform Act.
>
> What in the world does this have to do with immigration. The artist was
> born here.
Exactly. She was born in the US.
And as such, she is a sterling example of how cheap and meaningless American
citizenship is; a poster child for everything that has been wrong with
immigration policy since the 1965 Immigration Reform Act.
As many anchors as have been dropped in the US since 1965, being born in the
US has about as much relation to being an American as black face has to
being black. Place of birth is no longer a valid test of being American.
And your mug should be sharing the poster with her.
H. Reader
Davei, the color of the sky is subjective; the spelling
of Einstein isn't.
American - Targeted for Genocide
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
news:nSfad.1665$6q2...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
Correct spelling is not subjective, Poncho Disney.
American - Targeted for Genocide
I'm not even going to argue with your racist ass over these semantics again!
You have beat that horse plumb to death in here - repeatedly.
You gave us the answer to what the definition of La Raza is a few weeks ago
when you were asked about membership qualifications - the last time you were
trying to convince us "La Raza" translates to "God Bless America"!
David Eduardo
>>>
>
> Yeah, Poncho Disney. Whatever you say.
> She is La Raza in America.
>
Thanks to the controversy, I discovered a delightful Alquilera piece on the
Domino Park in Miami, I proceeded to order it from Maria. It will look very
nice next to my Guayasamín and the East LA Chicano art I have collected.
And... Maria is no more La Raza than Mahatma Ghandi.
American - Targeted for Genocide
She is La Raza - clearly indicated in her surname and her ethnic heritage.
And now that you have given her some charity she ought to be able to afford
that bus ticket to fix the shit she screwed up in Livermore.
And it is no surprise that you support someone from your ethnic identity
group. It is a published fact of life that you are a fifth columnist intent
on furtherance of genocide. In your position as a corrupt corporate officer
promoting genocide, you have plenty of money to throw around to support La
Raza.
Univision Communications Inc. ("Univision") is the leading Spanish-language
media company in the United States. Our powerhouse portfolio includes
Television, Radio, Music and Internet offerings that entertain and inform
more Hispanics each day than any other media company in the country. Our
television operations include the Univision Network, TeleFutura Network,
Galavisión and Univision and TeleFutura Television Groups. Univision also
owns and operates Univision Radio, Univision Music Group and Univision
Online. Univision holds a 50% interest in Mexico-based Disa Records, a
company specializing in regional Mexican music, a 50% interest in TuTv, a
joint venture formed to broadcast Televisa's pay television channels in the
U.S., and a non-voting minority interest in Entravision Communications
Corporation, a public Spanish-language media company. Headquartered in Los
Angeles, California, Univision was incorporated in Delaware in 1992 and its
stock is traded on the New York Stock Exchange (UVN). In February 2001,
Univision's stock was included in the S&P 500 index.
This Super Session will feature ...David Gleason a.k.a. David Eduardo,
president, programming, Univision Radio; ....
--
Definition of US Immigration Policy:
Main Entry: geno·cide
Pronunciation: 'je-n&-"sId
Function: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or
cultural group
--
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:n8mad.1813$6q2....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>
>
> She is La Raza - clearly indicated in her surname and her ethnic heritage.
"Latina" is not the same as "raza." Raza is a very Mexican term, not used to
define "Latinness" outside of a subset of Mexicans. Argentines don't use it.
Colombians don't use it. Puerto Ricans don't use it. Even middle and upper
income Mexicans don't use it.
You are trying to convert a very specific, well defined term, into a meaning
it neither has nor will ever have.
Since about 35% to 50% of US Hispanics are not Mexican, this term does not
apply to all immigrants, either.
David Eduardo
>
> She is La Raza - clearly indicated in her surname and her ethnic heritage.
> And now that you have given her some charity she ought to be able to
> afford that bus ticket to fix the shit she screwed up in Livermore.
Definition and history of term, "La raza." It's very specific to Mexicans
and Mexican Americans. this definition can be found repeated across the web.
What does "Raza" mean and where does it come from?
It has often been said that the practice of Chicanos to refer to the overall
Mexican American population as "Raza" is inherently racist. This is because
the translation of this term into English removes its philosophical baggage
and makes it look as if Mexican Americans are the race, similarly to Nazi
claims that the "Arian" was the race that should inherit Earth.
Understanding how this term originated is important to know its meaning. One
must be aware that the term is originally from México and it was first
promoted by José Vasconcelos, a respected and venerated Mexican intellectual
(1881-1959). It was given shape in his book La Raza Cósmica (1948) and it
was introduced as a response, based on "scientific" evidence then available
as well as Catholic theology. I have translated parts of the prologue of the
second edition and parts of the first chapter where the philosophy is
defined.
In the early 1900's Mexican intellectuals were trying to come up with an
identity for the Mexican people during a time of social upheaval. This
social change was being fueled by two revolutionary changes in thought: Marx
and Engels "Das Kapital" and C. Darwin's "Theory of Evolution of the
Species." The first one challenged the position of the moneyed class
(whether old or new money) while the second challenged the position of
mankind itself in the general scheme of things and went against biblical
teaching.
The most successful of them, José Vasconcelos, came up with a kooky concept
where he claimed that the indigenous people of America had had their day in
the sun but their mixture with the "better" Europeans gave rise to a new
race, the mestizo. (In those days, it was common to divide Homo Sapiens into
four races: Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Amerindian. Thrown as
evidence, he cited the lost continent of Atlantis.) He called this new race
"La raza Cósmica" and argued that it would be the one that would show "the
way" to the rest of the world. It is a very catchy and feel-good concept.
Over the years, that concept was semi-officially promoted by the Mexican
government to give "atole con el dedo" to the population (that is where the
custom of calling "Día de la Raza" to "Columbus Day" came from).
The concept was also taken by the Chicano activists (some founded "La Raza
Unida Party," go see the PBS series "Chicano" for more information. A good
bibliography can be found in its Web site.) but I don't think that any of
them had bothered to read Vasconcelos' book. To this day, there are some who
worship this concept together with the very nice slogan that Vasconcelos
devised for the Universidad Autónoma Nacional de México (he was one of the
co-founder of this most recent incarnation of the oldest University in the
Americas): "Por mi Raza hablará el Espiritú." Given Vasconcelos' zeal for
the Catholic religion, it would not surprise me that he had in mind the
Spirit that is part of the Holy Trinity.
BuccaneerJuan
>$,6000 PLUS EXPENSES to correct the errors..." don't you understand?
>
>Pretty fancy digs for that destitute starving latrina artist you are
>apologizing for in your reply to Robert.
Picasso wasn't exactly destitute. Nor should he have been. There are quite a
few well compensated Hispanic artists out there. And no racist redneck artists
that I'm aware of -- can you brain trusts name a single racist artist that's
worth a damn and doesn't live in a mobile home?
~~~~~~~~~~~
A great war leaves the country with three armies - an army
of cripples, an army of mourners, and an army of thieves.
-German proverb
BuccaneerJuan
>It's her responsibility to fix it at no cost, like anyone else who
>fucks up a job.
Professionals don't generally take that attitude. If your MD makes a "mistake"
expect him/her to bill you for more treatments. The same way with an attorney;
it's beyond difficult to get funds reimbursed if you are unhappy with the
representation that you received.
But then again, racists don't understand the World outside of a McDonalds.
American - Targeted for Genocide
Call her anything you want, Poncho Disney.
We are not in any of those third world shit holes and I don't really care
what you or they call themselves.
A spade is still a spade by any other name.
And no matter what else she is, most of all she is a ignorant, crass,
low -life amateur who ripped off the taxpayers of Livermore.
American - Targeted for Genocide
>
> "American - Targeted for Genocide" <lets...@meet-me-in-hell.com> wrote in
> message news:10mkvrd...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> She is La Raza - clearly indicated in her surname and her ethnic
>> heritage.
>> And now that you have given her some charity she ought to be able to
>> afford that bus ticket to fix the shit she screwed up in Livermore.
>
> Definition and history of term, "La raza." It's very specific to Mexicans
> and Mexican Americans. this definition can be found repeated across the
> web.
>
> What does "Raza" mean and where does it come from?
>
How about we just call them what they really are and what we call them in
the US?
No matter what country they are from - they are PEPPER BELLY WETBACKS.