58,000 Sanctions Employers Hiring Illegal Aliens
Lets Roll
http://www.cis.org/sanctions/
There are 57,785 records in this searchable database of employers who have
been sanctioned for hiring illegal aliens. It can also be downloaded as an
Access database. You can type in specific company names, or I tried some
general terms. Among the ones listed:
McDonald's 148 Sanctions
Wendy's 61
Jack in the Box 78
Bank of America 1
Well's Fargo 4 (one of those was Armored car)
Taco Bell 86
Marriott 85
Hilton 46
Motel 6 37
Denny's 73
IBP 8
General Motors 1
Chevrolet 30
Home Depot 6
Wal-Mart 4
Enron 1
7/11 Stores 21 (various spellings)
Under more general search terms
Pizza 271
Attorneys 13
Meat Packing 8
Trucking 113 (these folks are supposed to do an _extensive_ background
check)
Transportation 85
Transport 60
Mail 49
Bank 151
Savings and Loan 2
Financial 66
Attorneys 13
Under the search term "county" 128 total listings, and didn't count the
number of actual GOVERNMENT offices sanctioned for hiring illegal aliens.
Courts 66 - again didn't count the number of individual GOVERNMENT COURTS
sanctioned for hiring illegal aliens.
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
David Eduardo
of a job applicant or employee.
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
news:ap6a5p$ltc$1...@news.chatlink.com...
olc-ca...@cox.net
<amd...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>All this proves is that there is no effective and quick way to verify status
>of a job applicant or employee.
Of course it doesn't. It only proves that those who could improve
enforcement have no interest in doing so. A national ID card system
with appropriate acquisition process and use of technology would be a
big step in improving the situation. A faster system for verifiying
socail security numbers would help too, and if we can do it for guns
we can do it for that.
You claim to be opposed to illegal immigration and want to reduce it
by better enforcement, bit I never see you supporting or proposing
anything to get there.
TL
enforced all the id in the world is worthless.
The Maryland-Virginia shooter situation is a case in point. So damn many
illegals and quasi-legals (i.e. foreign "students", h1-b's etc.) the police don't
even know where to start.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:A7zt9.11181$OH3.50...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> All this proves is that there is no effective and quick way to verify
status
> of a job applicant or employee.
All this proves is that there have been 58,000 violations of the law by
employers, many of them with repeat offenses in the hundreds, and include
major corporations and government offices.
David Eduardo
<olc-ca...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:19ldru81p91f7ep3v...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:21:04 GMT, "David Eduardo"
> <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >All this proves is that there is no effective and quick way to verify
status
> >of a job applicant or employee.
>
> Of course it doesn't. It only proves that those who could improve
> enforcement have no interest in doing so. A national ID card system
> with appropriate acquisition process and use of technology would be a
> big step in improving the situation. A faster system for verifiying
> socail security numbers would help too, and if we can do it for guns
> we can do it for that.
>
> You claim to be opposed to illegal immigration and want to reduce it
> by better enforcement, bit I never see you supporting or proposing
> anything to get there.
I have mentioned a national ID card many times; I get shot down by the
"infringement of my rights" folks. Every time I describe my simple attitude
towards immigration, I have included my suggestion on an ID card. I believe
in enforcement of existing laws (99% of the problem), revision on legal
quotas, control of visa holders and definitive clarification of the status
of people currently in the US.
A national ID card would be a significant improvement, shifting to
government the burden of verifying status before issueing a card.
Better enforcement means, simply, empowering the INS and Border Patrols with
the funds and manpower to reduce the liklihood of success of illegal
immigrants. Since a huge percentage of illegals are over-stay visaed
persons, this area needs control, too.
No school registrar, HR person or ER admission nurse is going to be able to
verify accurately a person's legality or ability to be in the US. A national
ID card would make the Federal Government verify each individual's status
before granting a card.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB6DB0C...@nospam.net...
> You can have all kinds of id and other high tech baloney---if the law is
not
> enforced all the id in the world is worthless.
>
> The Maryland-Virginia shooter situation is a case in point. So damn many
> illegals and quasi-legals (i.e. foreign "students", h1-b's etc.) the
police don't
> even know where to start.
It's not the police's job to enforce immigration law. The police forces in
the US are not trained to verify status anymore than a school teacher is.
An ID card, needed to cash a check, open a bank account, apply for a credit
card, get a job, buy and registyer a card, register a kid for shcool, visit
a hospital, etc., would severely limity an illegal's ability to function in
the US and enhance the ability of the proper authorities to apprehend them.
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
>
>
> --
> Free Hinkley
> Tom Tancredo for President!
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:A7zt9.11181$OH3.50...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > All this proves is that there is no effective and quick way to verify
> status
> > of a job applicant or employee.
>
> All this proves is that there have been 58,000 violations of the law by
> employers, many of them with repeat offenses in the hundreds, and include
> major corporations and government offices.
Yet there is no way these companies can positively verify status;
presentation of documents and the asking of a question like, "are you
legally able to work in the USA?" are all that the law permits.
I know people with honest, respectable businesses owned by non-Hispanics in
several areas on the US who regularly find out someone they have had working
for perhaps a year is illegal... only because the SSA writes that the number
is not valid. The companies complied with all requirements of the law, and
went as far as the law (EEO, etc.) allows in questioning applicants. It is
possible for an illegal to stump the present sytem for many years as there
is no clearinghouse for verification.
You can not condemn those companies on the list for violations that they
could not discover without intervention from the INS to verify
documentation, etc.
americankernel
news:T7Ct9.1633$Cq3.75...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
The TRUTH is, every decent, law-abiding AMERICAN CITIZEN shares the
knowledge that we are first and foremost a country of laws. In this light
all DECENT Americans strongly believe that all law duly appointed
enforcement officers should be authorized to handle any person or persons
who they find breaking ANY law. This is especially so in this age of
terrorism. To defend the current system in which BP & INS agents are the
only ones who can "officially" handle illegals and visa violators is simply
stupid...dangerously stupid.
Americans who LACK adherence, or promote non-adherence to such fundamental
precepts as the "nation of laws" principle are simply not true
Americans...this includes you, Deduardo. From what I know of you, you are
NOT an American in any REAL sense of the word as it has been passed down to
me.
When I consider that people like you, who defecate on our ideals seemingly
through the mere act of getting out of bed in the morning, actually presume
that they ARE American, I find it to be patently insulting to a fine
heritage that "set the table" for our greatness. But alas, my ancestors
would have felt the same way, yet insisted that even those as dangerously,
insultingly misguided as you still have the right to think, speak and act in
the ways in which you do. That is an interesting, but important American
conundrum.
To sum it up, we are a nation of laws. Period. End of story. Catch 'em,
shackle 'em and ship 'em back...and kick them in the ass when they're
dropped off at the border and kick 'em so hard that they don't want to come
back. Maybe the ACLU can catch a whiff of the stench as they pass by on the
way out, but they cannot do anything about it. All we have to do as
Americans is make sure that our leaders start to ENFORCE the law.
Your Illinois ancestors would slap your ass silly for the crap that your
mind generates, I can guarantee it.
--
The American Kernel
Tiny Human Ferret
>
> "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB6DB0C...@nospam.net...
> > You can have all kinds of id and other high tech baloney---if the law is
> not
> > enforced all the id in the world is worthless.
> >
> > The Maryland-Virginia shooter situation is a case in point. So damn many
> > illegals and quasi-legals (i.e. foreign "students", h1-b's etc.) the
> police don't
> > even know where to start.
>
> It's not the police's job to enforce immigration law. The police forces in
> the US are not trained to verify status anymore than a school teacher is.
That needs to change, and it will.
>
> An ID card, needed to cash a check, open a bank account, apply for a credit
> card, get a job, buy and registyer a card, register a kid for shcool, visit
> a hospital, etc., would severely limity an illegal's ability to function in
> the US and enhance the ability of the proper authorities to apprehend them.
Absolutely. A National ID Card probably isn't required, but it's also probably
inevitable. Even if it's not implimented as a NatID or OneCard, probably total
conformance to a standard set by the Organization of State Governors (or
whatever is their official name) will amount to the same.
A lot of the State Governors are in fact reportedly very interested in making
the expiration dates of ID and DL to be the same as the expiration date of
visas. Further, many are reportedly open to the idea of having a special
endorsement on such ID/DL, which would be absent by default, but which with
appropriate proof, would indicate that the bearer was a citizen, and would
further require that all checks against that ID would return with that
statement of citizenship; lack of that return with the statement of
citizenship could be presumed to mean that the ID was valid, but that the
bearer was a non-citizen. If expired and a non-citizen, the presumption would
be to _automatically_ notify the INS.
--
Be kind to your neighbors, even though they be transgenic chimerae.
Whom thou'st vex'd waxeth wroth: Meow. <-----> http://earthops.net/klaatu/
Cato
<radio...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB6DB0C...@nospam.net...
>> You can have all kinds of id and other high tech baloney---if the law is
>not
>> enforced all the id in the world is worthless.
>>
>> The Maryland-Virginia shooter situation is a case in point. So damn many
>> illegals and quasi-legals (i.e. foreign "students", h1-b's etc.) the
>police don't
>> even know where to start.
>
>
>It's not the police's job to enforce immigration law. The police forces in
>the US are not trained to verify status anymore than a school teacher is.
It might not be "their job" foremost, but it is ridiculous to say that
it ought not be, or that they are not trained to do so. Verifying
indentification, people's histories and so on, is central to what cops
do every day. Do local cops refuse to arrest people breaking federal
code? Do they hold a guy found to have a case of counterfeit cash in
his trunk? Do they hold people found to have comitted a crime in
another state? Cops generally do everything they are equiped to do,
with the peculiar exception of immigration. That can be changed,
rather inevitable that it will.
>
>An ID card, needed to cash a check, open a bank account, apply for a credit
>card, get a job, buy and registyer a card, register a kid for shcool, visit
>a hospital, etc., would severely limity an illegal's ability to function in
>the US and enhance the ability of the proper authorities to apprehend them.
>
That's right, but your hispanic brethren in politics are on the case
24/7, utterly opposed to anything that might make illegals more
apprehendable. It's fine to say that some certain number of hispanics
poll in opposition to unfettered migration, but hispanic pols are so
uniformly aggresive on behalf of immigration and illegals, it must be
considered indicative of majority hispanic intentions. Most of us
don't care to set up difficult poltical prerequisites, passing
"National ID" and the like, to do something that is actually pretty
simple. While I would always give an arrestee the benefit of the doubt
at a hearing, such that it can be reasonably determined whether he
might be an "undocumented american", neither would I play any games
with the matter. It is perfectly obvious that hispanics would like
more delay and further migration. Keep on digging that hole of poor
intentions and bad faith. Evidently the majority of hispanics would
prefer a feel-good war with the average gringo, than to secure those
with some shred of legitimacy among us. Can't have it both ways, and
if you were a little bit honest, you'd admit that you cannot.
Iconoclast
"David Eduardo" <radio...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:T7Ct9.1633$Cq3.75...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> > You can have all kinds of id and other high tech baloney---if the law is
> not
> > enforced all the id in the world is worthless.
> >
> > The Maryland-Virginia shooter situation is a case in point. So damn
many
> > illegals and quasi-legals (i.e. foreign "students", h1-b's etc.) the
> police don't
> > even know where to start.
>
>
> It's not the police's job to enforce immigration law. The police forces in
> the US are not trained to verify status anymore than a school teacher is.
>
TL didn't state that it was. Most police officers today have college
degrees and, of course, so do teachers. It they are not competent to
"verify status" then what the hell does it take? An advanced degree in
criminology? The real issue is that most illegals are easily identifiable
by racial profiling and their accents, assuming they can speak English at
all, so it has been turned into a "racial profiling" issue which the
illegals and "immigrant rights" organizations have turned to their great
advantage to further the reconquista.
David Eduardo
"Cato" <ilu...@usbastards.org> wrote in message
news:9paeruci8ug6a9rp5...@4ax.com...
You miss the point. There is no instant access database that shows whether a
parson is legal or not. There are crime databases, driver license databases,
etc., but nothing that shows or could be accessed to check status of an
individual as to residency in the US.
Even INS agents often detain persons for hours to verify ID; no other entity
can do this at present. And none can do it rapidly.
David Eduardo
"Iconoclast" <gas...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:VIHt9.1592$Fj6.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Bullshit. To tell a Spanish accent of a Tejano from a legal immigrant from
an illegal one is probably impossible, or requires a qualified linguist.
And there is no source to verify status. So no one, educated or not, can
check a person's status.
This is why employers generally learn months and months later they may have
an illegal if the Social Security folks reject a number... which is notified
as a potential error in accumulation of benefits, not an illegal alert.
There is no other quick and accurate way to verify status.
>
johnny@.
citizenship. We have 35 million hispanics in the US, and 11 million
illegals, that is 46 million hispanics, unless the 11 million is not
included in the 35 million. Since you say there is no other way to
validate residency in the US, then each person must be checked individually.
--
Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from
the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government
becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to
alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its
foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form,
as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and
happiness.-Thomas Jefferson
johnny@.
When a person can't speak English, they are an illegal alien. At one
time, I had a little respect for you. I don't anymore.
RB
think the better way is to stop them at the border and severely sanction
employers and government agents. Somehow this list sure does look light.
What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you get when it comes to my
'inalienable rights'??? So you are willing to give up a little of your
privacy and rights, which forces me to give up a little of mine. Next, I
give up a some more of mine and you give more of yours. That's called
incrementalism, turning up the heat gradually until the frog is cooked.
We wouldn't have any of these problems if our government was doing the job
that the American people were paying them to do. To the tune of many 100's
of BILLIONS OF DOLLARS!! We shouldn't be forced to have our freedoms and
rights placed on the bargaining table just because we have seditionists in
government. Placing bets that even with multi-biological identifiers this
will still go on because of graft and corruption and the need to move
society in the direction of the New World Order.
Look up Hegel's Dialectic Theorem, Antonio Gramsci and finally Carl Marx.
Bone up on your history. Get it here:
http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/ampp.html
RB
<olc-ca...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:19ldru81p91f7ep3v...@4ax.com...
RB
Protect and To Serve" on them. It just says "To Serve." Why? Cause that
is a liability that they could be sued for. Like false advertising. They
know full well that they cannot protect and if they fail they are liable.
RB
"Cato" <ilu...@usbastards.org> wrote in message
news:kgodruoj42ch7nqu1...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:32:11 GMT, TL <T...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
> >You can have all kinds of id and other high tech baloney---if the law is
not
> >enforced all the id in the world is worthless.
> >
> >The Maryland-Virginia shooter situation is a case in point. So damn many
> >illegals and quasi-legals (i.e. foreign "students", h1-b's etc.) the
police don't
> >even know where to start.
>
> Been thinking the same thing. Whether they will admit it or not, the
> problems in investigating this sort a crime, in an area that is
> brim-full of illegals and whatchamacallems, is going to modify some
> attitudes. It's f-ing nuts, having promise the public that you won't
> arrest them, in order to garner some tips.
>
RB
chains. If we removed welfare and all the other programs and freebees, we
would see a mass exodus.
RB
"David Eduardo" <radio...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:T7Ct9.1633$Cq3.75...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
TL
is a duck.
David Eduardo
<johnny@.> wrote in message news:k3It9.6354$Be4....@news.bellsouth.net...
> David Eduardo wrote:
> >
> >
> With the situation today, every hispanic should have to verify their
> citizenship. We have 35 million hispanics in the US, and 11 million
> illegals, that is 46 million hispanics, unless the 11 million is not
> included in the 35 million. Since you say there is no other way to
> validate residency in the US, then each person must be checked
individually.
Of the 9 million illegals (mid range and highest confidence estimate) about
60% at most are Hispanic.
Why should any American have to prove they are American when other Americans
are not so required? This would be a civil rights violation of 30 million
persons (the illegals are apparently counted inthe Census figures) who are
here legally. Many whose families have been here for many generations, such
as Puerto Ricans.
TL
Constitutional rights and liberties. The local and state police, when they are
ordered to, are more than capable of catching foreign nationals illegally in the
United States and turning them over to INS for deportation.
TL
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, chances are it
is a duck.
David Eduardo
<johnny@.> wrote in message news:N7It9.6362$Be4....@news.bellsouth.net...
>
> When a person can't speak English, they are an illegal alien. At one
> time, I had a little respect for you. I don't anymore.
That is not true. Most previous era immigrants learned little English; I saw
Poles, Italians, Greeks and others in Cleveland in the 50's who knew no
English; their kids were fluent.
And, just as a point of reference, Puerto Ricans in their majority are not
bilingual in Puerto Rico, but are 100% US citizens by birth.
Not knowing the language is a common thing among immigrants, legal or
otherwise. Many learn some English, a few learn good English and many never
learn more than a few phrases.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB7521E...@nospam.net...
> If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, chances
are it
> is a duck.
I see. Tell me how to tell a Puerto Rican from an illegal Dominican. I'm
waiting.
David Eduardo
"RB" <rbb...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:6nIt9.400$Uh6.20...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> National ID card??? What next, "May I have your travel papers please?"
I
> think the better way is to stop them at the border and severely sanction
> employers and government agents. Somehow this list sure does look light.
Well, the INS sure is not doing the border thing right. And, as I said, how
can you sanction an employer who has no friggin way of verifying status?
There is no certain and sure way right now.
>
> What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you get when it comes to my
> 'inalienable rights'??? So you are willing to give up a little of your
> privacy and rights, which forces me to give up a little of mine. Next, I
> give up a some more of mine and you give more of yours. That's called
> incrementalism, turning up the heat gradually until the frog is cooked.
An ID card is not giving up rights. It would probably prevent identity
theft, make check fraud harder, same with credit card fraud. There are many
other advantages, and zero drawbacks. We get asked for ID all the time.
Usually, we use or driver license; that is not a good ID method and all we
would do with a national ID is replace a bad ID with a good one.
>
David Eduardo
> Thanks but no thanks! I am not willing to adorn myself with your security
> chains. If we removed welfare and all the other programs and freebees, we
> would see a mass exodus.
Surprise: most illegals don't get welfare.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB755FF...@nospam.net...
> Eduardo, you are not involved in the phoney Puerto Rican id business are
you?
There is no such thing as Puerto Rican ID.
TL
TL
TL
Must be an insider. Btw, most Puerto Ricans in the United States proper speak
& write much better English than they do Spanish. Maybe 60 years ago this
wasn't the case, but, it is today.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB75E6F...@nospam.net...
> There is a hell of a big difference between a Puerto Rican who is an
American
> citizen and a Latin American or other foreign national who is in the
United
> States illegally. September 11th in New York City was a big wake up call
on
> this issue for Puerto Ricans who got to see our open borders policy in
action.
> Remember, most Puerto Ricans in the USA are concentrated in NYC.
Wunnerful. NOw tell me how you tell a legal Puerto Rican from an illegal
Dominican.
>
> Really, the whole statehood issue is up to the Puerto Ricans, they just
can't
> make up their minds if they want to remain US citizens or become a
seperate
> nation.
Wrong again, Charley.
Puerto Rico is undecided on becoming a state (48% in last plebiscite) and
remaining a Commonwealth (48% in same plebiscite). Independence polled
around 3% of the votes, the level the Independence movement has been at for
the last three or four decades.
TL
citizen and a Latin American or other foreign national who is in the United
States illegally. September 11th in New York City was a big wake up call on
this issue for Puerto Ricans who got to see our open borders policy in action.
Remember, most Puerto Ricans in the USA are concentrated in NYC.
Really, the whole statehood issue is up to the Puerto Ricans, they just can't
make up their minds if they want to remain US citizens or become a seperate
nation.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB758E6...@nospam.net...
> If there is no such thing, how did you find out about the Dominican angle?
> Must be an insider. Btw, most Puerto Ricans in the United States proper
speak
> & write much better English than they do Spanish. Maybe 60 years ago this
> wasn't the case, but, it is today.
A. What is Puerto Rican ID? I have never heard of such a thing.
B. Tell us how you tell a legal Puerto Rican form an illegal Dominican. I am
waiting.
C. In Puerto Rico, less than half the population considers itself
bilingual. Only the upper income segment sends thier kids to bilingual
schools, the rest speak some small amount of English or none at all.
D. About half the US Puerto Ricans are truly biningual... a portion are
totally English dominant, but there are still many who don't know much
English.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB7610F...@nospam.net...
> When the bust goes down I will post all of the details.
Of what?
> Simple, just ask them. ;o))))))))))
Right. An illegal is going to tell a stranger that they are not legal. Sure.
You been tokin' again?
TL
Simple, just ask them. ;o))))))))))
David Eduardo wrote:
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:s_Ht9.11308$an7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
For someone who claims to support reform you sure get upset when anyone
suggests enforcing immigration laws.
The cure is obvious. Don't hire anyone until results on status check is
back. If it takes SSA a year, then it will be a year before the job starts.
That condition applies to any number of other hiring criteria, such as drug
screens and criminal background checks. They do not begin employment until
all references, tests, background checks and status have been cleared and
returned. Any employer who does anything less is irresponsible at best and
attempting to circumvent the laws.
Maybe people ought to start suing employers for negligent endangerment and
they would begin to take their responsibility and the law more seriously.
TL
I don't think Puerto Rico would become another Hati or Cuba if it became
independent! Even though Puerto Rico has more in common with Hati and Cuba
than it does with Central or South America.
TL
Forged identification is bad enough and will get you jail time if you are
caught.
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
>
> >
> For someone who claims to support reform you sure get upset when anyone
> suggests enforcing immigration laws.
Read again. I said there is no way to enforce the laws other than by the
understaffed INS because there is no way for an employer or other non-INS
person to conveniently, quickly and accurately identify an illegal.In fact,
it often takes the INS a day or so to do so, so bad is the ID system.
The only way the immigration laws can be enforced is with an accessable
database, more INS agents and a manner by wicho businesses, hospitals,
schools and other entities can verify status in a foolproof manner. This
does not exist now. It takes an employer sometimes months to find out a
person is illegal.
> The cure is obvious. Don't hire anyone until results on status check is
> back.
There is no such thing as a status check. A business can not call the INS,
as the INS has no system for this.
The only way most employers find out an employee is faking it is when a
Social Security number is rejected by the SSA. They don't say, "you have an
illegal" but, rather, the number may not be able to be properly credited.
There is no employer accessable system to verify employment. The SSA
"rejection" may take months.
> If it takes SSA a year, then it will be a year before the job starts.
Guilty until proven innocent. And, of course, EEO would requre all job
applicants prove status. Anything else would be discriminatory.
> That condition applies to any number of other hiring criteria, such as
drug
> screens and criminal background checks.
Which can be done on short order, either at random or for all employees...
fairly.
> They do not begin employment until
> all references, tests, background checks and status have been cleared and
> returned. Any employer who does anything less is irresponsible at best
and
> attempting to circumvent the laws.
However, the cost to businesses, large and small, would be impossible to
bear. Imagine waiting for months for a necessary employee to be on board!
> Maybe people ought to start suing employers for negligent endangerment and
> they would begin to take their responsibility and the law more seriously.
Very few employers intentionally hire illegals. They comply with the law,
view ID, and process paperwork according to proper identification
requirements.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:GDIt9.11314$mC7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
The rights of 275 million are being violated by 8 million right now.
americankernel
>
> "Iconoclast" <gas...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:VIHt9.1592$Fj6.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "David Eduardo" <radio...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:T7Ct9.1633$Cq3.75...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
Deduardo,
Unlike Johnny, I haven't had respect for you since I read the first post of
yours I happened across. You're a racist, bigoted anti-American jerk who is
so caught up in it, you probably can't even see it. You only can accuse
others of the same faults that we find most evident in you. Just because
you aren't as obviously vehement as some of us, your transparent persona is
incapable of masking your insidious, nasty ideals.
Here's how it is going to be, and soon. If someone doesn't speak perfect
kings english in Connecticut, display and awesome Cajun flavored dialect in
the bayou, sound like Marge Simpson in the Midwest or like Dubya in Texas,
law enforcement should take notice and check them out further: We're going
to profile the living hell out of anyone and everyone who looks like they
don't belong. This is especially so if it is obvious that they are of
Hispanic descent; there's AT LEAST a one in four chance that they here
illegally no matter where you go in America! Enforcement doesn't have to
become overtly oppressive with any individual unless they start to get antsy
about the stop. Then, if their documentation doesn't fit, yank them out.
No exceptions.
Eventually, most legitimate hispanics will get tired of taking the fall for
lawbreakers and look forward to the day in which there are NO illegals so
they can once again follow the honorable path to assimilation.
I don't go anywhere without proper ID and neither does any intelligent
person here legitimately these days. If someone who is legitimately here is
so stupid not to recognize that they may fit a profile and still fails to
have something decent as far as identification is concerned (Matricula
Consular cards don't and won't ever count for shit), they need to be quickly
and courteously placed on a stinky, un-air-conditioned bus headed south.
Period.
And Puerto Rico needs to be independent. If YOU are representative of a
typical Puerto Rican resident, then it isn't likely that Puerto Rico will
EVER be deserving of statehood and should be cut loose. Ellos deben ir
ahora!
--
The American Kernel
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:XJIt9.11320$HC7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
It no speakee English it need be ready for checkee.
It might even offer some incentive for some of the non-assimilators to learn
some English and at least we could rid ourselves of the atrocity of having
ballots printed in spanish.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB7640B...@nospam.net...
> I think the Puerto Ricans should be given a choice, idependence or
statehood.
> I don't think Puerto Rico would become another Hati or Cuba if it became
> independent! Even though Puerto Rico has more in common with Hati and
Cuba
> than it does with Central or South America.
The choice is continued Commonwealth status (which can not be taken away) or
a change to Statehood or Independence.
Puerto Rico has essentially nothing in common with Haiti, and very little
in common today with Cuba. It does extensive trade with northern South
America, the Dominican Republic and Europe.
Iconoclast
>
> <johnny@.> wrote in message news:k3It9.6354$Be4....@news.bellsouth.net...
> > David Eduardo wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > With the situation today, every hispanic should have to verify their
> > citizenship. We have 35 million hispanics in the US, and 11 million
> > illegals, that is 46 million hispanics, unless the 11 million is not
> > included in the 35 million. Since you say there is no other way to
> > validate residency in the US, then each person must be checked
> individually.
>
> Of the 9 million illegals (mid range and highest confidence estimate)
about
> 60% at most are Hispanic.
>
> Why should any American have to prove they are American when other
Americans
> are not so required?
Who said that other Americans are not required to prove that they are who
they say they are? Any job applicant is required to provide evidence of
being an American or being a legal resident. Nobody said that only
Hispanics would be targeted for providing evidence of being here legally.
The fact that 10 million people are in this country illegally and many, if
not most of them, are from Mexico makes it especially hypocritical and
laughable that the biggest complainers and whiners about being asked to
provide proof of being in the country legally are from that group.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:8GIt9.11315$tF7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
Well that little minority who don't want to learn English could easily tote
their papeles with them when they go: the new American Express: Don't leave
home without it. But there is certainly no excuse for the majority to be
taken advantage of and suffer at the expense of the minority.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB764E8...@nospam.net...
> Since you are an advocate for Latin Americans, I wouldn't joke about
drugs.
> Forged identification is bad enough and will get you jail time if you are
> caught.
You are babbling now.
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
>
>
> --
> Free Hinkley
> Tom Tancredo for President!
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:8GIt9.11315$tF7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > <johnny@.> wrote in message
news:N7It9.6362$Be4....@news.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > > When a person can't speak English, they are an illegal alien. At one
> > > time, I had a little respect for you. I don't anymore.
> >
> > That is not true. Most previous era immigrants learned little English; I
> saw
> > Poles, Italians, Greeks and others in Cleveland in the 50's who knew no
> > English; their kids were fluent.
> >
> > And, just as a point of reference, Puerto Ricans in their majority are
not
> > bilingual in Puerto Rico, but are 100% US citizens by birth.
> >
> > Not knowing the language is a common thing among immigrants, legal or
> > otherwise. Many learn some English, a few learn good English and many
> never
> > learn more than a few phrases.
> >
> >
> Well that little minority who don't want to learn English could easily
tote
> their papeles with them when they go:
Wrong assumption. Learning a second language in adulthood is difficult..
totally impossible for some. There have been all kinds of studies on
language learning, many available on the net; this was true with Italians,
Germans, Poles, and all the other groups emigrating to the US in the past.
By the first generation,we have bilingual kids.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:bfJt9.11328$M%7.525...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB758E6...@nospam.net...
> > If there is no such thing, how did you find out about the Dominican
angle?
> > Must be an insider. Btw, most Puerto Ricans in the United States proper
> speak
> > & write much better English than they do Spanish. Maybe 60 years ago
this
> > wasn't the case, but, it is today.
>
> A. What is Puerto Rican ID? I have never heard of such a thing.
>
> B. Tell us how you tell a legal Puerto Rican form an illegal Dominican. I
am
> waiting.
>
> C. In Puerto Rico, less than half the population considers itself
> bilingual. Only the upper income segment sends thier kids to bilingual
> schools, the rest speak some small amount of English or none at all.
>
> D. About half the US Puerto Ricans are truly biningual... a portion are
> totally English dominant, but there are still many who don't know much
> English.
> >
In light of this new world created by massive immigration where planes fly
into buildings, maybe it would be a good idea if PRs acknowledged that
there are a few minor little security issues stateside. Maybe they should
consider carrying a birth certificate or PR DL or what ever passes as ID in
PR, if that crap hole has anything like that, and be prepared to produce it
anytime they are out and about. If PR doesn't have some sort of ID, then
maybe they should get into this century and out of the stone age, because
surely if mexico can come up with a consular card PR could come up with
something. It wouldn't hurt them to learn a little English if they didn't
want the hassle of 'fessing up all the time.
TL
phoney number, generally within one quarter after reporting the number.
Then the old standby of a birth certificate as proof, and, a back up by
verification of grade school or high school attendence. If they don't have a
birth certificate, and you can't confirm grade school or high school attendence
something is very wrong.
David Eduardo
"americankernel" <america...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3MJt9.75161$zE6.2...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
>
> Here's how it is going to be, and soon. If someone doesn't speak perfect
> kings english in Connecticut,
I can see the headlines when they arrest Henry Kissinger or a triple
platinum selling hip-hop group.
> display and awesome Cajun flavored dialect in
> the bayou, sound like Marge Simpson in the Midwest or like Dubya in Texas,
> law enforcement should take notice and check them out further: We're going
> to profile the living hell out of anyone and everyone who looks like they
> don't belong.
A nice case of breaking other laws to enforce one pet law.
>This is especially so if it is obvious that they are of
> Hispanic descent; there's AT LEAST a one in four chance that they here
> illegally no matter where you go in America!
Actually, it is like 1 in 7.
Iconoclast
>
> "Iconoclast" <gas...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:VIHt9.1592$Fj6.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "David Eduardo" <radio...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:T7Ct9.1633$Cq3.75...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
Settle down, Dave, or you'll soil your trowsers! If someone can't speak
good American English then they are clearly a foreigner. Why would an
American be speaking in Spanish if trying to explain his or her legal
status. A real American would break into English if asked to answer
questions by an officer of the law.
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:GDIt9.11314$mC7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > <johnny@.> wrote in message
news:k3It9.6354$Be4....@news.bellsouth.net...
> > > David Eduardo wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > With the situation today, every hispanic should have to verify their
> > > citizenship. We have 35 million hispanics in the US, and 11 million
> > > illegals, that is 46 million hispanics, unless the 11 million is not
> > > included in the 35 million. Since you say there is no other way to
> > > validate residency in the US, then each person must be checked
> > individually.
> >
> > Of the 9 million illegals (mid range and highest confidence estimate)
> about
> > 60% at most are Hispanic.
> >
> > Why should any American have to prove they are American when other
> Americans
> > are not so required?
>
> Who said that other Americans are not required to prove that they are who
> they say they are? Any job applicant is required to provide evidence of
> being an American or being a legal resident.
Now, given that there is no immediately verifiable document that does this,
how are employers going to be certain?
You can not hold up the employability of a person just because they "look"
like some profile.
Available evidence today is not reliable. It is not verifiable.
Iconoclast
>
> "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB7521E...@nospam.net...
> > If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, chances
> are it
> > is a duck.
>
> I see. Tell me how to tell a Puerto Rican from an illegal Dominican. I'm
> waiting.
>
>
>
You ask them. And if there is some question as to their truthfullness, then
you investigate further. It seemed that South Americans always posed that
kind of question concerning Nazi war criminals who lived in Argentina and
elsewhere, but the Israeli Nazi hunters managed to find most of them. Where
there's a will, there's a way.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB754B0...@nospam.net...
> Right on. Foreign nationals in the USA illegally are a threat to our
basic
> Constitutional rights and liberties. The local and state police, when
they are
> ordered to, are more than capable of catching foreign nationals illegally
in the
> United States and turning them over to INS for deportation.
>
I think all the churches who have been so eager to assist the illegal aliens
plight should provide the beds the INS is lacking, at the expense of the
church. It would be the humanitarian thing to do, since the INS only has
20,000 beds for 12 million illegal aliens.
> RB wrote:
>
> > Thanks but no thanks! I am not willing to adorn myself with your
security
> > chains. If we removed welfare and all the other programs and freebees,
we
> > would see a mass exodus.
> >
> > RB
> > "David Eduardo" <radio...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:T7Ct9.1633$Cq3.75...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3DB6DB0C...@nospam.net...
> > > > You can have all kinds of id and other high tech baloney---if the
law is
> > > not
> > > > enforced all the id in the world is worthless.
> > > >
> > > > The Maryland-Virginia shooter situation is a case in point. So damn
> > many
> > > > illegals and quasi-legals (i.e. foreign "students", h1-b's etc.) the
> > > police don't
> > > > even know where to start.
> > >
> > >
> > > It's not the police's job to enforce immigration law. The police
forces in
> > > the US are not trained to verify status anymore than a school teacher
is.
> > >
> > > An ID card, needed to cash a check, open a bank account, apply for a
> > credit
> > > card, get a job, buy and registyer a card, register a kid for shcool,
> > visit
> > > a hospital, etc., would severely limity an illegal's ability to
function
> > in
> > > the US and enhance the ability of the proper authorities to apprehend
> > them.
> > >
> > >
>
Iconoclast
>
> <johnny@.> wrote in message news:N7It9.6362$Be4....@news.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > When a person can't speak English, they are an illegal alien. At one
> > time, I had a little respect for you. I don't anymore.
>
> That is not true. Most previous era immigrants learned little English; I
saw
> Poles, Italians, Greeks and others in Cleveland in the 50's who knew no
We were talking about Americans, Dave, not foreigners. Of course foreigners
might not speak English, but that is not the point.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB76A0E...@nospam.net...
> It doesn't take a year for the Social Security Administration to kick out
a
> phoney number, generally within one quarter after reporting the number.
I did not make the one year reference; that was another poster. My
experience is that the SSA tends to take 4 to 6 months to report back a
questionable number.
>
> Then the old standby of a birth certificate as proof, and, a back up by
> verification of grade school or high school attendence.
Not the current law. Anyway, a birth certificate is far easier fo fake than
a "green" card or Social Security card. I could probably do them myself with
a minimal investment in some security paper, a pressure seal and a laser
printer.
> If they don't have a
> birth certificate, and you can't confirm grade school or high school
attendence
> something is very wrong.
I could not even confirm my own school attendance; I have no reason to do
so, and a transcript is not legally usable as identification.
David Eduardo
Finding a few dozen Nazis whose photos and personal information was public
knowledge is not the same as identifying, or distinguishing between, an
illegal Dominican and a (legal) Puerto Rican. The illegal will probably
present you with more convincing ID than the Puerto Rican can possibly
assemble.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:YlJt9.100$Or4.14...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB75E6F...@nospam.net...
> > There is a hell of a big difference between a Puerto Rican who is an
> American
> > citizen and a Latin American or other foreign national who is in the
> United
> > States illegally. September 11th in New York City was a big wake up
call
> on
> > this issue for Puerto Ricans who got to see our open borders policy in
> action.
> > Remember, most Puerto Ricans in the USA are concentrated in NYC.
>
> Wunnerful. NOw tell me how you tell a legal Puerto Rican from an illegal
> Dominican.
> >
> > Really, the whole statehood issue is up to the Puerto Ricans, they just
> can't
> > make up their minds if they want to remain US citizens or become a
> seperate
> > nation.
>
> Wrong again, Charley.
>
> Puerto Rico is undecided on becoming a state (48% in last plebiscite) and
> remaining a Commonwealth (48% in same plebiscite). Independence polled
> around 3% of the votes, the level the Independence movement has been at
for
> the last three or four decades.
>
>
What can we do to persuade them to become independent?
David Eduardo
>
>
> Settle down, Dave, or you'll soil your trowsers! If someone can't speak
> good American English then they are clearly a foreigner.
Like Henry Kissinger, etc?
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
> >
> >
> What can we do to persuade them to become independent?
Nothing. What could we do to persuade you to give up YOUR US citizenship?
David Eduardo
I'm speaking about the 50% or more of Cleveland that is of very recent
immigrant heritage... I remember being on the bus as a kid and not being
able to understand what anyone said. Italian, Lithuanian, Czech, Greek,
Polish... Cleveland even had in the early 60's 3 or 4 radio stations that
had programs in a dozen or so languages each... for the local residents who
did not speak English well or at all. Their kids, of course, are as American
as you are, maybe more.
TL
records, no clue.
TL
are you have caught a duck.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB76C79...@nospam.net...
> Not a big problem really. No birth certificate, no grade school or high
school
> records, no clue.
Plenty of adults don't have... and may never have had... grade school or
high school papers. And, as previously posted, a birth certificate in the US
is about the esasiest ID to falsify or counterfeit.
TL
and can be verified by the state with a phone call. School attendence
verification is not a transcript and it to can be verified. But, an employer
can ask for a transcript from the potential employee.
If little Eduardo claims he went to such and such grade school in Cleveland it
can be verified! No birth certificate........something wrong.
Mike
> "Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
> >
> >
> > --
> > Free Hinkley
> > Tom Tancredo for President!
> > > All this proves is that there is no effective and quick way to verify
> status
> > > of a job applicant or employee.
> >
> > All this proves is that there have been 58,000 violations of the law by
> > employers, many of them with repeat offenses in the hundreds, and include
> > major corporations and government offices.
>
> Yet there is no way these companies can positively verify status;
> presentation of documents and the asking of a question like, "are you
> legally able to work in the USA?" are all that the law permits.
>
> I know people with honest, respectable businesses owned by non-Hispanics in
> several areas on the US who regularly find out someone they have had working
> for perhaps a year is illegal... only because the SSA writes that the number
> is not valid. The companies complied with all requirements of the law, and
> went as far as the law (EEO, etc.) allows in questioning applicants. It is
> possible for an illegal to stump the present sytem for many years as there
> is no clearinghouse for verification.
>
> You can not condemn those companies on the list for violations that they
> could not discover without intervention from the INS to verify
> documentation, etc.
Hi David
Any company can check out anyone. All it takes is a few bucks, and a
couple of hours for the report to come back.
Mike
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
>
>
> In light of this new world created by massive immigration where planes fly
> into buildings, maybe it would be a good idea if PRs acknowledged that
> there are a few minor little security issues stateside. Maybe they should
> consider carrying a birth certificate or PR DL or what ever passes as ID
in
> PR, if that crap hole has anything like that, and be prepared to produce
it
> anytime they are out and about. If PR doesn't have some sort of ID, then
> maybe they should get into this century and out of the stone age, because
> surely if mexico can come up with a consular card PR could come up with
> something. It wouldn't hurt them to learn a little English if they didn't
> want the hassle of 'fessing up all the time.
Like all the other states and territories, PR has a driver license. Like
every other state, anyone with a fake birth certificate or other fake ID can
get one.
My point is that there is no ID for "Puerto Ricans." Any American living in
Puerto Rico could have a driver license if the test is passed... just like
Wyoming or Idaho or Mississippi. However, Puerto Ricans have no ID that
identifies them as such; persons living in Puerto Rico have an ID form
Puerto Rico. Just as if I move to Dallas, I can get a TX license but that
does not immediately make me a Texan.
There is no requirement or real need in Puerto Rico to know English unless
you want to work in a tourist hotel or deal with certain business matters
with the rest of the US. Otherwise, English is not necessary.
And, when you call PR a "crap hole" I'm sure you have no knowledge of the
Island, or its people.
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB76F9B...@nospam.net...
> There you go again forging documents. Birth certificates are not easy to
forge,
> and can be verified by the state with a phone call. School attendence
> verification is not a transcript and it to can be verified. But, an
employer
> can ask for a transcript from the potential employee.
>
> If little Eduardo claims he went to such and such grade school in
Cleveland it
> can be verified! No birth certificate........something wrong.
I've seen more fake birth certificates than anything else. There is a racket
in this area, where people who are dead, known to be expats, etc., are
"cloned" to identify persons who want a new identity. This was discovered
by the criminal element decades ago. No one ever bothers to check death
certificates; con artists check death notices and rapidly clone the dead
person.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:kJIt9.11319$9L7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "RB" <rbb...@swbell.net> wrote in message
> news:rtIt9.403$Yv6.20...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> > Thanks but no thanks! I am not willing to adorn myself with your
security
> > chains. If we removed welfare and all the other programs and freebees,
we
> > would see a mass exodus.
>
> Surprise: most illegals don't get welfare.
>
>
On the April 19 Nightly News, Kelly O'Donnell reported on San Luis, Arizona
where "thousands of Mexican residents rent post office boxes here and use
them as American addresses to collect welfare checks and food stamps and to
enroll their kids in U.S. schools." She also found an EITC connection: "The
IRS put a hold on 5,500 tax returns this year after detecting widespread
abuse of the Earned Income Credit."
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:JIIt9.11318$MJ7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "RB" <rbb...@swbell.net> wrote in message
> news:6nIt9.400$Uh6.20...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> > National ID card??? What next, "May I have your travel papers please?"
> I
> > think the better way is to stop them at the border and severely sanction
> > employers and government agents. Somehow this list sure does look
light.
>
> Well, the INS sure is not doing the border thing right. And, as I said,
how
> can you sanction an employer who has no friggin way of verifying status?
> There is no certain and sure way right now.
>
The Border Patrol needs to be armed with machine guns.
Apparantly they do have a way to verify status. You said above that the SSA
produces results in about a year. Employers who had an interest in
following the law would wait until they got the status check back. They do
it with drug screens, criminal background checks, reference checks and
sometimes even credit reports. Until all those things are gathered and
cleared for take off, you don't go to work. They should be waiting on
verification of status, too, since it is no less important. You are just
trying to flim flam people.
> >
> > What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you get when it comes to my
> > 'inalienable rights'??? So you are willing to give up a little of your
> > privacy and rights, which forces me to give up a little of mine. Next,
I
> > give up a some more of mine and you give more of yours. That's called
> > incrementalism, turning up the heat gradually until the frog is cooked.
>
> An ID card is not giving up rights. It would probably prevent identity
> theft, make check fraud harder, same with credit card fraud. There are
many
> other advantages, and zero drawbacks. We get asked for ID all the time.
> Usually, we use or driver license; that is not a good ID method and all we
> would do with a national ID is replace a bad ID with a good one.
> >
>
>
275 million people are having their rights infringed on by a minority every
day. It is time to turn the tables and let democracy, majority rule, take
place.
A national ID card would only be acceptable if it was required for making
every purchase from the grocery store to the utilities to getting gas to
going to work and going to school. No gotte card no gettee tortillas.
Iconoclast
>
> <olc-ca...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:19ldru81p91f7ep3v...@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:21:04 GMT, "David Eduardo"
> > <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > >All this proves is that there is no effective and quick way to verify
> status
> > >of a job applicant or employee.
> >
> > enforcement have no interest in doing so. A national ID card system
> > with appropriate acquisition process and use of technology would be a
> > big step in improving the situation. A faster system for verifiying
> > socail security numbers would help too, and if we can do it for guns
> > we can do it for that.
> >
> > You claim to be opposed to illegal immigration and want to reduce it
> > by better enforcement, bit I never see you supporting or proposing
> > anything to get there.
>
> I have mentioned a national ID card many times; I get shot down by the
> "infringement of my rights" folks. Every time I describe my simple
attitude
> towards immigration, I have included my suggestion on an ID card. I
believe
> in enforcement of existing laws (99% of the problem), revision on legal
> quotas, control of visa holders and definitive clarification of the status
> of people currently in the US.
>
> A national ID card would be a significant improvement, shifting to
> government the burden of verifying status before issueing a card.
>
> Better enforcement means, simply, empowering the INS and Border Patrols
with
> the funds and manpower to reduce the liklihood of success of illegal
> immigrants. Since a huge percentage of illegals are over-stay visaed
> persons, this area needs control, too.
>
> No school registrar, HR person or ER admission nurse is going to be able
to
> verify accurately a person's legality or ability to be in the US.
They were able to do that for centuries until diversity brought in a culture
or race of people who lie, steal identity, enter our country illegally, and
lie on job application forms in order to get jobs at airports and in other
secure areas. But it would be "profiling" to go after the people who are
most likely to be here illegally, i.e., people who speak Spanish and look
like the typical Latin American citizen, so people like you spread stories
that it is just sooooo difficult for ordinary, honest Americans to pick out
these illegal aliens. They can be spotted easily by people who haven't been
brainwashed into political correctness.
>
A national
> ID card would make the Federal Government verify each individual's status
> before granting a card.
>
>
>
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:uWJt9.110$7J4.15...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Where there is a will there is a way. If they don't have that much will
power maybe they are not such good candidates for this country.
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
>
>
> --
> Free Hinkley
> Tom Tancredo for President!
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:JIIt9.11318$MJ7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "RB" <rbb...@swbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:6nIt9.400$Uh6.20...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> > > National ID card??? What next, "May I have your travel papers
please?"
> > I
> > > think the better way is to stop them at the border and severely
sanction
> > > employers and government agents. Somehow this list sure does look
> light.
> >
> > Well, the INS sure is not doing the border thing right. And, as I said,
> how
> > can you sanction an employer who has no friggin way of verifying status?
> > There is no certain and sure way right now.
> >
> The Border Patrol needs to be armed with machine guns.
> Apparantly they do have a way to verify status. You said above that the
SSA
> produces results in about a year.
Stop. This is the second time I have been attributed with this statement I
did not make. The SSA rejects uncheckable numbers in somehwer between 90 and
150 days, on the average. Never, if the number being used belongs to a dead
indigent, or someone who will have no inspection of their account.
> Employers who had an interest in
> following the law would wait until they got the status check back.
See if you can follow this: there is no SSA status check. You hire a person.
You start making FICA and Medicare payments. The SSA realized that the
number does not match anything on file, or the name and the number do not
match. They send back an notice of irregularity that says that the number
needs to be verified, as it can not be used to creid the funds deposited.
THe SSA does not verify residency status. This is my whole point in favoring
a national ID card that could be checked.
> They do
> it with drug screens, criminal background checks, reference checks and
> sometimes even credit reports. Until all those things are gathered and
> cleared for take off, you don't go to work. They should be waiting on
> verification of status, too, since it is no less important. You are just
> trying to flim flam people.
Again, louder: THE SSA DOES NOT VERIFY OR CONFIRM STATUS. And, only when a
person has been employed can you sometimes find a mismatch of a name or
number. But not prior to employment.
>
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Z8Kt9.121$bO4.16...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
I guess they like those welfare checks as bad as they hate America.
Why does that not surprise me.
Iconoclast
> > Thanks but no thanks! I am not willing to adorn myself with your
security
> > chains. If we removed welfare and all the other programs and freebees,
we
> > would see a mass exodus.
>
> Surprise: most illegals don't get welfare.
>
>
>
How do you know that since you say it is impossible for anyone to tell if
someone is an illegal or not except for some very specialized linguists?
David Eduardo
Most illegals don't want to be on record with any paperwork... they don't
answer surveys, don't fill in forms, are leery of pollsters. It's part of
being illegal.
David Eduardo
"Mike" <MikePu...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5e0d76a8.02102...@posting.google.com...
Right. Now how would we be doing this? What company, government entity or
whatever can do this verification of legal status in a few hours?
TL
applications with phoney information regarding education, past employment and
references. The employer is in almost all cases violating the law with full
knowledge that he is hiring a foreign national in the US illegally.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:weKt9.128$PQ4.16...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB76C79...@nospam.net...
> > Not a big problem really. No birth certificate, no grade school or high
> school
> > records, no clue.
>
> Plenty of adults don't have... and may never have had... grade school or
> high school papers. And, as previously posted, a birth certificate in the
US
> is about the esasiest ID to falsify or counterfeit.
> >
You have more excuses than Carter has pills.
You sound like you have a lot of practice at employing illegal aliens and
know all the excuses to feed to the INS when they come calling.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:iMJt9.103$yE4.15...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
> news:ap7olv$cod$1...@news.chatlink.com...
> >
> > >
> > For someone who claims to support reform you sure get upset when anyone
> > suggests enforcing immigration laws.
>
> Read again. I said there is no way to enforce the laws other than by the
> understaffed INS because there is no way for an employer or other non-INS
> person to conveniently, quickly and accurately identify an illegal.In
fact,
> it often takes the INS a day or so to do so, so bad is the ID system.
>
> The only way the immigration laws can be enforced is with an accessable
> database, more INS agents and a manner by wicho businesses, hospitals,
> schools and other entities can verify status in a foolproof manner. This
> does not exist now. It takes an employer sometimes months to find out a
> person is illegal.
>
> > The cure is obvious. Don't hire anyone until results on status check is
> > back.
>
> There is no such thing as a status check. A business can not call the INS,
> as the INS has no system for this.
>
> The only way most employers find out an employee is faking it is when a
> Social Security number is rejected by the SSA. They don't say, "you have
an
> illegal" but, rather, the number may not be able to be properly credited.
> There is no employer accessable system to verify employment. The SSA
> "rejection" may take months.
>
> > If it takes SSA a year, then it will be a year before the job starts.
>
> Guilty until proven innocent. And, of course, EEO would requre all job
> applicants prove status. Anything else would be discriminatory.
>
> > That condition applies to any number of other hiring criteria, such as
> drug
> > screens and criminal background checks.
>
> Which can be done on short order, either at random or for all employees...
> fairly.
>
> > They do not begin employment until
> > all references, tests, background checks and status have been cleared
and
> > returned. Any employer who does anything less is irresponsible at best
> and
> > attempting to circumvent the laws.
>
> However, the cost to businesses, large and small, would be impossible to
> bear. Imagine waiting for months for a necessary employee to be on board!
>
> > Maybe people ought to start suing employers for negligent endangerment
and
> > they would begin to take their responsibility and the law more
seriously.
>
> Very few employers intentionally hire illegals. They comply with the law,
> view ID, and process paperwork according to proper identification
> requirements.
>
>
Excuses excuses excuses. You really love illegal aliens, don't you?
Especially the ones of hispanic variety.
Iconoclast
> > National ID card??? What next, "May I have your travel papers please?"
> I
> > think the better way is to stop them at the border and severely sanction
> > employers and government agents. Somehow this list sure does look
light.
>
> Well, the INS sure is not doing the border thing right. And, as I said,
how
> can you sanction an employer who has no friggin way of verifying status?
> There is no certain and sure way right now.
>
Fear, uncertainty and doubt. FUD.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:t0Kt9.114$jL4.15...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Iconoclast" <gas...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:2SJt9.2012$Fj6.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:GDIt9.11314$mC7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > <johnny@.> wrote in message
> news:k3It9.6354$Be4....@news.bellsouth.net...
> > > > David Eduardo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > With the situation today, every hispanic should have to verify their
> > > > citizenship. We have 35 million hispanics in the US, and 11 million
> > > > illegals, that is 46 million hispanics, unless the 11 million is not
> > > > included in the 35 million. Since you say there is no other way to
> > > > validate residency in the US, then each person must be checked
> > > individually.
> > >
> > > Of the 9 million illegals (mid range and highest confidence estimate)
> > about
> > > 60% at most are Hispanic.
> > >
> > > Why should any American have to prove they are American when other
> > Americans
> > > are not so required?
> >
> > Who said that other Americans are not required to prove that they are
who
> > they say they are? Any job applicant is required to provide evidence of
> > being an American or being a legal resident.
>
> Now, given that there is no immediately verifiable document that does
this,
> how are employers going to be certain?
>
> You can not hold up the employability of a person just because they "look"
> like some profile.
>
> Available evidence today is not reliable. It is not verifiable.
>
>
>
The SSA seems to have a system. A little slow but a system. And they can't
go to work until it has been verified.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:haKt9.123$jO4.16...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Something tells me he had papeles.
Iconoclast
So what is your point? You seem to advocate open borders and unlimited
illegal immigration based upon the fear of offending some former illegal
alien that got amnesty or some third generation Hispanic that never learned
English and never assimilated into the culture. Your entire argument is
based on the possibility that some Hispanic who is here legally might get
asked to provide an ID. Because there is the mere possibility that a fake
ID might pass as a real ID then you argue that there is absolutely no point
in having the rule of law at all and we may as well have anarchy and
complete lawlessness.
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
> >
> >
> >
> The SSA seems to have a system. A little slow but a system. And they
can't
> go to work until it has been verified.
No, they will not input a number until a person appears on an employer's
payroll withholding payment. And then, they only verify if the account
exists and the names match. If they don't, they ask for clarification or
verification. The SSA does not verify migrant status. The SSA is essentially
a bad insurance company.
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
>
>
> --
> Free Hinkley
> Tom Tancredo for President!
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:weKt9.128$PQ4.16...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3DB76C79...@nospam.net...
> > > Not a big problem really. No birth certificate, no grade school or
high
> > school
> > > records, no clue.
> >
> > Plenty of adults don't have... and may never have had... grade school or
> > high school papers. And, as previously posted, a birth certificate in
the
> US
> > is about the esasiest ID to falsify or counterfeit.
> > >
>
> You have more excuses than Carter has pills.
> You sound like you have a lot of practice at employing illegal aliens and
> know all the excuses to feed to the INS when they come calling.
Sorry. When the INS does an inspection or raid (I have covered both for the
news media), they don't ask the employer for anything. They go directly to
the employees. Then, if illegals are found, they will determine employer
liability by seeing if all procedures were complied with. there are seldom
fines, since the procedures don't usually detect illegals.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:PsKt9.143$K_4.16...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Maybe that is why you are supposed to provide more than one form of ID and
reference.
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
Welfare is generally locally administered or an entitlement. Whatever
welfare is paid in Puerto Rico comes from unemployment taxes collected in PR
or from entitlements collected by Federal taxation in PR, such as Social
Security and Medicare.
Iconoclast
>
> "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB76C79...@nospam.net...
> > Not a big problem really. No birth certificate, no grade school or high
> school
> > records, no clue.
>
> Plenty of adults don't have... and may never have had... grade school or
> high school papers. And, as previously posted, a birth certificate in the
US
> is about the esasiest ID to falsify or counterfeit.
> >
Of course, real Americans and honest people have no reason to falsify or
counterfeit these records. It is a gift of the Mexicans to the United
States that now all such records and forms of ID are now called into
question because they have brought dishonesty, corruption, and law-breaking
to the U.S. along with their contraband drugs and people smuggling.
Iconoclast
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB76D60...@nospam.net...
> No birth certificate, no school records, phoney social security number,
chances
> are you have caught a duck.
>
Remember how before Hispanics became the largest minority in the U.S. we
could trust the integrity and honesty of most people and birth certificates,
school records, and social security cards were taken at face value? This
must be what we mean by cultural diversity, i.e., that now all forms of ID
are suspect and even though you think someone who can't speak English and
seems like an illegal alien should be deported, the Senators and governors
and Congressmen and mayors will label you a Nazi and a bigot for daring to
call for enforcement of our immigration laws against people who openly
announce that they are here illegally. The illegal aliens are so proud of
their fake IDs and stolen Social Security numbers that they now use the
prevalence of liars and cheaters among them as an argument against trusting
any form of ID. We are like Romania now where the mafias that deal in
people smuggling, kidnapping, drug smuggling, and other illegal enterprises
begin to dominate society.
> Iconoclast wrote:
>
> > "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:XJIt9.11320$HC7.52...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message
David Eduardo
> So what is your point? You seem to advocate open borders and unlimited
> illegal immigration based upon the fear of offending some former illegal
> alien that got amnesty or some third generation Hispanic that never
learned
> English and never assimilated into the culture.
Point? The current system does not work. We need a reliable ID document and
a way for employers, the DMV, schools and such to verify it.
> Your entire argument is
> based on the possibility that some Hispanic who is here legally might get
> asked to provide an ID.
No. It is based on the fact that our existing ID can be faked, forged,
duplicated and is totally unreliable for verification of status.
> Because there is the mere possibility that a fake
> ID might pass as a real ID then you argue that there is absolutely no
point
> in having the rule of law at all and we may as well have anarchy and
> complete lawlessness.
The problem is that there is no way of rapidly verifying ID, fake or real,
in a reasonable time frame. Heck, even the INS often has to detain suspects
for a day or more to verify ID or information.
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
Wrong. To be employed, a resident card should be presented by a resident
alien, plus a Social Security card. The SS card is not ID... it even says so
on the card. Citizens can, theoretically present a birth certificate,
passport or a combination of other documents that tend to prove legal
status.
The employer can make their own requirements, as long as they are uniformly
applied, to try to show intent to do something that is, in fact, impossible
to do 100% right 100% of the time.
Iconoclast
> > > > If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck,
> chances
> > > are it
> > > > is a duck.
> > >
> > > I see. Tell me how to tell a Puerto Rican from an illegal Dominican.
I'm
> > > waiting.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You ask them. And if there is some question as to their truthfullness,
> then
> > you investigate further. It seemed that South Americans always posed
that
> > kind of question concerning Nazi war criminals who lived in Argentina
and
> > elsewhere, but the Israeli Nazi hunters managed to find most of them.
> Where
> > there's a will, there's a way.
>
> knowledge is not the same as identifying, or distinguishing between, an
> illegal Dominican and a (legal) Puerto Rican. The illegal will probably
> present you with more convincing ID than the Puerto Rican can possibly
> assemble.
>
>
>
This kind of quibbling, along with fear, uncertainty and doubt you throw in
sheds light on why Operation Wetback just rounded up anyone who looked and
talked Mexican and threw them out of the country. Don't they call
Eisenhour's generation the Greatest Generation? They knew back then that
once you get into these arguments with people like you that it is absolutely
hopeless to stop illegal immigration and you see what is happening today,
where California, Texas, and other states have just been taken over by
illegal aliens and the politicians live in fear and trepidation of the
Hispanic voter who will punish any politicians who put America first.
Rather than assimilating, the immigrants from Mexico are tearing this
country apart.
TL
maybe wrong and usually is...
americankernel
> No birth certificate, no school records, phoney social security number,
chances
> are you have caught a duck.
>
> > >
> > > "TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3DB7521E...@nospam.net...
> > > > If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck,
chances
> > > are it
> > > > is a duck.
> > >
> > > I see. Tell me how to tell a Puerto Rican from an illegal Dominican.
I'm
> > > waiting.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You ask them. And if there is some question as to their truthfullness,
then
> > you investigate further. It seemed that South Americans always posed
that
> > kind of question concerning Nazi war criminals who lived in Argentina
and
> > elsewhere, but the Israeli Nazi hunters managed to find most of them.
Where
> > there's a will, there's a way.
TL,
Why bother with Deduardo? He's just a bigoted, dickhead of an old fart who
is more than somewhat ashamed of his Irish heritage. He isn't an hispanic,
but wishes he was born one. He'll go round in circles with you like an
arthritic, senile old dog trying to lick its nuts. He's anathema to his
ancestors and will soon be nothing more than a drooling curmudgeon pissant
of a problem for his descendants. He hates anything historically "American"
and roots for the sea of human refuse seeping up from our south to overtake
us. His statistics and "facts" bounce around as authentically as Anna
Nicole's boobs and, while he may have a modicum of intelligence, he has long
lost the intellectual capacity to put it to proper use.
Most importantly, he doesn't matter one bit in this discussion because he
cannot do a damned thing about it from where he sits. His audience is on a
small, isolated island that means very little to this nation...but it does
offer nice test bombing ranges.
What it boils down to with Deduardo is that I know that I can affect change
and I am successfully recruiting others to answer the call to halt the
invasion. I'll bet you can from where you sit, too. Deduardo can't do a
thing in response. You just have to be willing to have the Deduardos of the
world subtly hate you for it. I'd pity him, but I just can't find it in my
heart to pity someone who holds such enmity for his ancestors and for my
country.
I try to ignore him, but sometimes his points are just so asinine I can't
help myself.
--
The American Kernel
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rYJt9.112$hK4.15...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "americankernel" <america...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:3MJt9.75161$zE6.2...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> >
> > Here's how it is going to be, and soon. If someone doesn't speak
perfect
> > kings english in Connecticut,
>
> I can see the headlines when they arrest Henry Kissinger or a triple
> platinum selling hip-hop group.
>
They did that just recently with some actor.
> > display and awesome Cajun flavored dialect in
> > the bayou, sound like Marge Simpson in the Midwest or like Dubya in
Texas,
> > law enforcement should take notice and check them out further: We're
going
> > to profile the living hell out of anyone and everyone who looks like
they
> > don't belong.
>
> A nice case of breaking other laws to enforce one pet law.
Yeah, its OUR turn now.
>
> >This is especially so if it is obvious that they are of
> > Hispanic descent; there's AT LEAST a one in four chance that they here
> > illegally no matter where you go in America!
>
> Actually, it is like 1 in 7.
>
>
Not the ones I've met. More like 3 out of 4.
David Eduardo
"Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:uWJt9.110$7J4.15...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> >
> > Wrong assumption. Learning a second language in adulthood is difficult..
> > totally impossible for some. There have been all kinds of studies on
> > language learning, many available on the net; this was true with
Italians,
> > Germans, Poles, and all the other groups emigrating to the US in the
past.
> > By the first generation,we have bilingual kids.
> >
> >
> Where there is a will there is a way. If they don't have that much will
> power maybe they are not such good candidates for this country.
This is a question of ability on an age continuum; it has nothing to do with
ability or intelligence.
Lets Roll
--
Free Hinkley
Tom Tancredo for President!
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ipKt9.142$uY4.16...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Lets Roll" <Lets...@Meet-Me-In-Hell.com> wrote in message
> news:ap7q3v$din$1...@news.chatlink.com...
> >
> >
> > In light of this new world created by massive immigration where planes
fly
> > into buildings, maybe it would be a good idea if PRs acknowledged that
> > there are a few minor little security issues stateside. Maybe they
should
> > consider carrying a birth certificate or PR DL or what ever passes as ID
> in
> > PR, if that crap hole has anything like that, and be prepared to produce
> it
> > anytime they are out and about. If PR doesn't have some sort of ID,
then
> > maybe they should get into this century and out of the stone age,
because
> > surely if mexico can come up with a consular card PR could come up with
> > something. It wouldn't hurt them to learn a little English if they
didn't
> > want the hassle of 'fessing up all the time.
>
> Like all the other states and territories, PR has a driver license. Like
> every other state, anyone with a fake birth certificate or other fake ID
can
> get one.
>
> My point is that there is no ID for "Puerto Ricans." Any American living
in
> Puerto Rico could have a driver license if the test is passed... just like
> Wyoming or Idaho or Mississippi. However, Puerto Ricans have no ID that
> identifies them as such; persons living in Puerto Rico have an ID form
> Puerto Rico. Just as if I move to Dallas, I can get a TX license but that
> does not immediately make me a Texan.
>
So you are telling us that crap hole is so backward it hasn't even figured
out how to provide any verifiable ID.
What a deal. It is hard to believe that even a corrupt rat hole like mexico
could do better than that.
> There is no requirement or real need in Puerto Rico to know English unless
> you want to work in a tourist hotel or deal with certain business matters
> with the rest of the US. Otherwise, English is not necessary.
>
> And, when you call PR a "crap hole" I'm sure you have no knowledge of the
> Island, or its people.
>
>
I have been exposed to enough of the people over here to know better than to
venture within a hundred miles of anything that nasty!
David Eduardo
"TL" <T...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:3DB778B9...@nospam.net...
> Mike any employer can check out almost anyone with a few phone calls; this
is not rocket science. You can verify past
> employment, education and references. Not a big deal for the honest
employer.
With existing liability laws and huge judgments, many businesses will not
verify anything today; it is hard to even get verification of employment.
Verifying education takes time, especially if the school is out of state,
the person is not a recent graduate, etc. I tried to get a high school
transcript recently and it took months...