SPANISH LANGUAGE USAGE TO INCREASE - NOT DECREASE IN THE USA
skm...@msn.com
that concludes that the number of Spanish dominant and bi-lingual
Latinos will increase by 45% in the next two decades. And its not just
because of continuing immigration. Unlike other immigrant groups,
even third generation Hispanics - those born to Latino parents who
themselves were born in the USA will continue to speak Spanish at an
extrordinarly larger number.
So much for assimilation!
Ian...@yahoo.com
There has been a spanish speaking population for hundreds of years in
the usa, who is not assimilating with whom?
skm...@msn.com
This country know as the United States and it's established government
made English it's language when it was formed. Don't care what other
language existed before that or the minority languages that are in this
country now. Don't like it then go back to a country where Spanish is
the dominant language and is part of that culture. Its not ours!
pomp...@hotmail.com
"It is the Manifest Destiny of the Mexican People to recover the lands
stolen in 1847, keep the best looking gringas, the nicest condos, the
fastest cars, and give the rest back to the Indians." -- His Excellency
don Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna
deld...@yahoo.com
pomp...@hotmail.com wrote:
> "It is the Manifest Destiny of the Mexican People to recover the lands
> stolen in 1847, keep the best looking gringas, the nicest condos, the
> fastest cars, and give the rest back to the Indians." -- His Excellency
> don Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9065560
Pssst - don Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna died June 21, 1876 - 42 years
BEFORE the introduction of the Model T.
When Santa Anna died, Henry Ford was 13.
Fastest cars?
/Roy
pomp...@hotmail.com
Well, shoot, you just won your very own bottle of Conmemorativo
Tequila! You are the first denizen of this newsgroup to realize the
joke! You cannot imagine how many of these fools complain about the
cite and actually seem to believe it! I do, however, believe in Dr.
Goebbel's maxim and am repeating it as much as possible till they now
believe it to be the dang truth. The more the ignoranti cite it the
stupider they will look to any thinking person!
pomp...@hotmail.com
And I think you will agree that keeping the ugliest gringas would be
stupid. Why go through all the trouble of the reconquista if you are
only going to keep the ugly gringas?
pomp...@hotmail.com
And I think you will agree that keeping the ugliest gringas would be
H. Reader
<Ian...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1150481863....@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
A Spanish-speaking population? What distorted nonsense.
kca...@yahoo.com
> Ian2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > skm...@msn.com wrote:
> > > According to Hispanic Vista.com a study was done by Hispanics USA, Inc.
> > > that concludes that the number of Spanish dominant and bi-lingual
> > > Latinos will increase by 45% in the next two decades. And its not just
> > > because of continuing immigration. Unlike other immigrant groups,
> > > even third generation Hispanics - those born to Latino parents who
> > > themselves were born in the USA will continue to speak Spanish at an
> > > extrordinarly larger number.
> > >
> > > So much for assimilation!
> >
> > There has been a spanish speaking population for hundreds of years in
> > the usa, who is not assimilating with whom?
>
> This country know as the United States and it's established government
> made English it's language when it was formed. Don't care
It's obvious you "don't care" about others rights, however there
is a very prominent Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guaranteeing
the rights of the conquered Mexicans who btw are the descendants
of the Spanish-Indian, Indian-Spanish, Mexicans and Spanish.
One of those "Rights" is to speak their mother tongue which
is the Spanish language.
> what other
> language existed before that or the minority languages that are in this
> country now. Don't like it then go back to a country where Spanish is
> the dominant language and is part of that culture.
In that case, I'll just stay here in the USA where Spanish has
been spoken for 500 years.
> Its not ours!
The Spanish language is as American as apple pie, and is 2nd only
in longevity and continuity to the Indigenous Languages.
Samo...@aol.com
> It's obvious you "don't care" about others rights, however there
> is a very prominent Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guaranteeing
> the rights of the conquered Mexicans who btw are the descendants
> of the Spanish-Indian, Indian-Spanish, Mexicans and Spanish.
> One of those "Rights" is to speak their mother tongue which
> is the Spanish language.
The mother tongue of Mexicans is NAHUATL, Senyor.
Samo...@aol.com
> It's obvious you "don't care" about others rights, however there
> is a very prominent Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guaranteeing
> the rights of the conquered Mexicans who btw are the descendants
> of the Spanish-Indian, Indian-Spanish, Mexicans and Spanish.
> One of those "Rights" is to speak their mother tongue which
> is the Spanish language.
What part of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guaranteed the right of
holdover Mexicans to speakie Spanish? And if such a clasue in that
treaty did exist, surely it applies to ONLY those holdover Meixcnas who
were incorporated into the USA in 1848 and surely does NOT apply to the
tens of millions of other Mexicans and other Hispanick groups who have
forced their way into the USA, despoerate to take part in the society
created by tthe English speakers.
Samo...@aol.com
> SPANISH LANGUAGE USAGE TO INCREASE - NOT DECREASE IN THE USA
translation: Latin Americans are genetically unable to create their own
successful countries, so they sneak into ANGLO founded countries (USA)
instead. How is that any different from a 50 year old man that has
lived with his mommy his entire life, still sucks her tit and still
wears a diaper?
Samo...@aol.com
> In that case, I'll just stay here in the USA where Spanish has
> been spoken for 500 years.
and where would that be? What city? I ask because most of the speakie
Spanish cities in our Southwest died out.
http://www.tubacaz.com/history.asp
Arizona Territorial: A ghost town when the U.S. took possession after
the Gadsden Purchase of 1853, Tubac returned to life in 1856. Charles
Poston and others established the Sonora Exploring and Mining Company
in the old presidio ruins. Soon the population topped 1,000; new
businesses, regular Butterfield Stage service, and The Weekly Arizonian
newspaper attracted the elite to Tubac.
from "The Spanish in North America", by David Weber, copyright 1992 by
Yale University.
Through natural increase and a trickle of immigration, Hispanic
Texas grew slowly, its population rising from 500 persons in 1731 to
1,190 by 1760. Of those, 1,190 persons, about 580 lived in San Antonio,
350 at Los Adaes and some 260 at La Bahia. In 1773, Spain would abandon
Los Adaes completely.
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/bio/robinson/robinsonjames.htm
In January, 1833, Robinson moved to Texas, leaving his wife and their
young son William in Arkansas. Robinson settled in Nacogdoches County
in east Texas near the Louisiana border. The village of Nacogdoches had
become virtually depopulated during the Mexican period.
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/LL/uql1.html
During the Texas Revolution, particularly the Goliad Campaign of 1835,
the Matamoros Expedition of 1835-36, and the Goliad Campaign of 1836,
the town was called both La Bahía and Goliad, though the old Spanish
term was used primarily to mean the presidio and was often corrupted by
Anglo-Americans to "Labadee." During the period of the Republic of
Texas and after annexation, the old mission and presidio fell into
ruin, but the presidio chapel remained intact and was used first as a
residence and then for church services after the Catholic Church
regained possession of it about 1853. This chapel was commonly referred
to as "La Bahía Mission," a designation that led to confusion with the
actual La Bahía mission, Espíritu Santo, which lay in ruins until
reconstructed as a public-works project in the 1930s. Presidio La
Bahía and its chapel were restored in the 1960s by the Kathryn
O'Connor Foundation (see GOLIAD STATE HISTORIC PARK and O'CONNOR,
KATHRYN STONER).
Samo...@aol.com
> The Spanish language is as American as apple pie....
oh yeah, Senyor? What part of the creation and development of the USA
was due to Spanish speakers?
Samo...@aol.com
> The Spanish language is as American as apple pie, and is 2nd only
> in longevity and continuity to the Indigenous Languages.
actually, Senyor, the Vikings were the first Europeans to set foot in
the Americas. But big fuckin' deal, they didn;t create the USA, the
country the Hispanick world pays their life savings to be sneaked into.
Guess what Asian language was first spoken in the Americas? CHINESE.
Guess what Polynesian language was first spoken in the Americas?
HAWAIIAN.
Ok, now for the million dollar question, what the fuck do those 2 facts
have to do with who created the USA, the country the Hispanick world
pays their life savings to be sneaked into?????
Samo...@aol.com
> The Spanish language is as American as apple pie, and is 2nd only
> in longevity and continuity to the Indigenous Languages.
so does that make the Spanish language around the 2,000th language to
be introduced in the Americas? 500 years after Norwegian.
Samo...@aol.com
> The Spanish language is as American as apple pie....
The English language is as Latin American as a taco....
We demand English be taught alongside Spanish in Latin America:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+hn0019)
Major British settlements were established at Cabo Gracias a Dios and
to the west at the mouth of the Rio Sico, as well as on the Islas de la
Bahia. By 1759 a Spanish agent estimated the population in the Rio Sico
area as 3,706.
from "British Honduras", by D.A.G. Waddell, copyright 1961
page 7
The English probably visited the Bay of Honduras as early as the latter
part of the sixteenth century, but the first British colony in the
western Caribbean was on the island of Old Providence, off Nicaragua,
in 1629. From there trade was carried on and settlements made on the
Mosquito Shore, and the island of Ruatan in the Bay of Honduras was
occupied......But the Spaniards dislodged the British from Old
Providence in 1641 and from Ruatan in 1642.......
There is a strong tradition that the settlement in British Honduras was
founded about 1638 or 1640 by a Scottish buccaneer, Captain Peter
Wallace, of whose name Belize is a Spanish corruption. Another
tradition tells of the original settlers being the crew and passengers
of an English ship wrecked on the coast. But the origins of Belize
remain obscure.
page 37
The enforcement of the American view, which was largely inspired by
the Monroe Doctrine, would have meant that Britain would not only have
to give up Ruatan and the Mosquito Shore, but also in British Honduras
to abandon the area south of the Sibun.......
Britain proved willing to yield over Ruatan and the Mosquito Shore, but
not over British Honduras........
Then, however, a compromise was readily reached on the basis of Britain
handing over Ruatan to the republic of Honduras, and the Mosquito Shore
to Nicaragua......
http://www.datasync.com/~woodward/marshall.htm
The substantial British presence in the West Indies is outside the
scope of the volume, but the final three chapters look at British
Caribbean communities within Spanish-America. Ross Graham describes the
evolution of a cultural identity in Honduras' Bay Islands; Ronald
Harpelle examines the changing identity of West Indian immigrants to
Costa Rica; and Jim Ross tells us about "Colombianisation" policies on
the small Caribbean island of San Andrés that failed to completely
eradicate British culture there.
Taken as a whole, these essays offer much insight and information
regarding how communities outside the mainstream of Latin American
history sometimes influenced it significantly.
Honduras Bay Islands
http://www.roatanonline.com/moreroatan/history.htm
During the 13th and 14th centuries, Europeans discovered these islands.
For almost 200 years Spanish conquistadores and British pirates battled
for control of these islands, ignoring the Indians for the most part.
Remains of old British forts and towns named after famous pirates
remain as their legacy.
The British eventually established control of the Bay Islands, until
the early 1960's when control of the Islands was officially returned to
Honduras.
http://www.roatanisland.net/history.htm
History of Roatan
Brief historical and ethnographical account of the Bay Islands
by David Evans (dke...@wfu.edu)
The first records indicating permanent English settlements in the Bay
Islands (other than the intermittent occupations by the logwood cutters
and buccaneers, and the abortive attempt by the Puritan sponsored
Providence Company) show that Port Royal, on the island of Roat?, was
again occupied in the year 1742. In this year the British made an
attempt to gain possession of most of the Caribbean coast of Central
America, and in doing so, rebuilt the old fort on Roat? (Squier
1858:615-616).
The archives at Belize record a Major Caulfield in command of Roat? as
early as 1745. On August 2nd of that year, the Major wrote a letter to
a Mr. Trelawry, Govenor of Jamaica, describing Spanish harassment of
English settlements (Archives, vol. I: 15). These settlements appear to
have been well established on the island of Roat? by 1775. A map of
that year, drawn by Thomas Jefferys, Geographer to His Majesty, Clearly
shows essentially all of the present older settlements, bearing their
current names, with the exception of Calkett's Hole (now Coxen's Hole)
and Falmouth Harbout (now Oak Ridge).
The Spanish, as soon as the early dawn provided enough light, directed
a well-coordinated attack against the English at Port Royal on the
early morning of March, 2nd 1782. "After a heavy cannonade, detachments
of the troops landed and opened regular trenches against the forts,
which were so closely invested and hotly pressed that on the 16th of
the month they surrendered at discretion. The lives of the defenders
were spared, but all their dwellings, to the number of 500, were
destroyed" ( quoted by Squier in 1858: 616-617).
Six years later, in 1788, England completely evacuated all of her
settlements in the Bay Islands as well as on the Miskito Shore. The
islands then lay deserted of Europeans for almost fifteen years until
1797, when the English removed by force some 5,000 "Black Caribs" (a
mixture of African Negro and Carib and Arawak Indians) from the
Windward Island of St. Vincent, and marooned them on the then empty
beaches of Port Royal on Roat? (Squier 1858:172 and Taylor 1951: 36).
Conzemius tells us that these unhappy people were first taken from St.
Vincent to the small island of Balliceaux, then to that of Bequia, both
in the Grenadines. At Bequia they were loaded aboard H.M.S. EXPERIMENT
under the command of Captain Barrett, and then shipped to Roat?. They
were landed on Roat? on a stormy day of February 25, 1797 (Conzemius
1928: 189). According to the Honduran historian, Dur?, the British
employed two men-of-war and a brigantine, landing the deportees in
April, not February, in 1797 (Dur? 1927:99). My own (DKE) personal
research both in Belize and in Berkeley indicates that this landing was
indeed in the winter months, and most likely February. The History of
the Garifuna, as well as the history of their most famous dance, "La
Punta", seems to spiral outward from this day, whatever month it was
in.
http://bluefieldspulse.com/our_history.htm
The British colonization of the Atlantic Coast (1633) and the
development of the enclave economy by North American Companies (1860)
ceased all further independent growth of the tribal
organizations.......
However, the Puritans , the first English colonizers shielded by
pirates , arrived to the Atlantic Coast of Nicaragua in 1633 from
Providence island in the Caribbean Sea. They bartered guns, machetes,
axes, cloths, beads, and mirrors with the Miskitu Indians in exchange
for cacao, dyewoods, India rubber, sarsaparilla, animal skins, and
turtle shells.....
In 1720, the Misquito Indians surrendered their country to the King of
England in the British colony of Jamaica. The governor of Jamaica
crowned the chief of the Miskitu tribe as "king" and declared the
Miskitu Indians territory as an independent "nation" under the
protection of the British Crown; whereupon, England could legitimately
claim control over the interoceanic route. The colonist organized the
tribes, lead by the Miskitu Indians, and defended the protectorate
against the Spanish Crown. In 1786, the signing of the Convention
Treaty between Her Britannic Majesty and the King of Spain in London
brought the English Protectorate of the Miskitu Indians to a national
question in England:
In those years, the city of Bluefields flourished with the construction
of new commercial buildings and private homes on account of the banana
boom. Some of the companies and commercial enterprises conducting
business were Bluefields Banana Co., New Orleans and Central American
Trading Co., Emile Brautigham, Belanger, Henry Clay Ingram, George D.
Emery Co., Brown &. Harris, Casa Seegard, Levy & Levis, J. L. Sargent,
John H. Simmons, Siegert and J. A. Paterson, etc. And because of the
scarcity of the labor force, African indigenous slave descendants from
New Orleans and particularly Creoles, skilled laborers, from Jamaica
were brought to work on the banana farms. A few Chinese, such as Wing
Sang, Chey-Wisin, Wab-Sin, Henry-Tom, and Henry-James engaged in
fishing activities. The labor force coupled with the Europeans and
North Americans increased the pop-ulation to more than 3,500 people.
http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/world/A0859996.html
British influence had been established along the east coast in the 17th
cent., and in 1848 the British seizure of San Juan del Norte opened a
period of conflict over control of the Mosquito Coast.
http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/world/A0843487.html
San Juan del Norte , small town, SE Nicaragua, on the Caribbean Sea.
Small quantities of bananas and hardwoods are exported. Also called
Greytown, it was occupied (1848) by the British to secure control of
the Mosquito Coast and to check the U.S. efforts to build an
interoceanic canal. The port became the thriving eastern terminus of a
transisthmian transport company operated by Cornelius Vanderbilt in the
gold rush to California.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua
The black population of the east coast region has English as its first
language.....
The eastern half of the country, on the other hand, was once a British
protectorate. English is still the first language of most people in
this region
http://www.nicaraguafishing.com/history.htm
The discovery of gold in California drew additional attention from
American and European powers who wanted to establish and control routes
across Panama and Nicaragua. Americans, French and British were among
the contenders, and in a move to control a route from the sultry,
swampy Mosquito Coast of Nicaragua, the British occupied the Eastern
seaboard port of San Juan del Norte between 1848 and 1850, renaming it
Greytown.
http://library.thinkquest.org/17749/lhistorysummary.html?tqskip1=1
Colonial Nicaragua enjoyed comparative peace and prosperity, although
freebooters like the English navigators Sir Francis Drake and Sir
Richard Hawkins continually disrupted that prosperity by raiding and
destroying coastal settlements. During the 1700s, the British managed
to ally themselves with the Miskito, a Native American group of people
intermarried with blacks, and they began to severely challenge Spanish
control. For a period during and after the middle of the century the
Mosquito Coast was considered a British dependency.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+pa0040)
Broadly speaking, Panamanians viewed their society as composed of three
principal groups: the Spanish-speaking, Roman Catholic mestizo
majority; the English-speaking, Protestant Antillean blacks; and tribal
Indians.
http://www.destinationcartagena.com/Isla_de_Providencia.html
Old Providence (Isla de Providencia) is an English-speaking Colombian
island with a population of 4,500. Located deep in the western
Caribbean (60 miles north of San Andres Island, approximately 400 miles
northwest of Cartagena and 150 miles east of Nicaragua), it can be
reached by means of flights from San Andres Island, which in turn has
direct flights from Colombia, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Jamaica, and Cuba.
In 1629 English colonists found several Dutch smugglers and privateers
already on the island. The same prominent Londoners who organized the
settlement of Massachusetts (aboard the Mayflower) formed a Company for
the colonization of Providence Island. In 1631 the first Puritan
settlers arrived aboard the Seaflower. By 1635 there were 500 white men
and 40 white women on the island, and in 1636 privateering was
underway. In 1641 the Spanish sent a small fleet and captured the
island, sending 400 colonists as prisoners to Spain. After being taken
by pirates and retaken by the Spanish, Providence was finally captured
by Henry Morgan and his Port Royal Privateers. Morgan viewed
Providence's central location in the Caribbean between Veracruz, Porto
Belo, and Havana as "a loaded pistol held perpetually to the breast of
Colonial Spain." By the mid-1700's however, the island was again in the
hands of the Spanish, for Francis Archbold, captain and slave trader,
was given a land grant by the Spanish in 1787. Archbold, Newall, and
Britton are the prominent names on the island even today.
http://www.datasync.com/~woodward/marshall.htm
Jim Ross tells us about "Colombianisation" policies on the small
Caribbean island of San Andrés that failed to completely eradicate
British culture there.
http://www.nuestracolombia.org.co/m_englishversion/colombiabeautiful.htm
SAN ANDRES Y PROVIDENCIA
SAN ANDRES
Archipielago located to 400 miles of the coasts of the Caribbean Sea,
made up of: San Andrés, Providence and Santa Catalina, and the small
barren islands: Bolivar, Haynes, Algodón and Alburquerque; the keys
Jonny Cay, Snorer, Mountain, Serranilla, Quitasue6no, Grunt, Rocky and
Aquarium.
Sites of Interest San Andrés:
The Cave of Morgan: where the Morgan pirate hid his treasures,
according to account the legend.
Haynes Cay: Natural Aquarius where is the habitat of great variety of
marine species. One is to 20 minutes of San Andrés.
San Andres archipelago, Columbia
http://www.san-andres.com/docs/index_eng.shtml
DISCOVERY
Many historians agree that the archipelago was discovered in 1629 by
English Puritans and Jamaican woodcutters and was then conquered by the
Spanish in the second half of the 17th century. For two hundred years
the English, Dutch, French and Spanish disputed ownership. During that
same period, the famous English pirate Henry Morgan used San Andrés as
his base of operations and, according to legend, as a hideaway for his
much acclaimed treasure.
HISTORY
Though all the islands did not develop in the same way, their history
is similar; discovered by the English but colonized by the Spanish,
they were military ruled for thirty-six years. For many years, Spain
and England fought for control of the islands, and so the Spanish flag
was lowered only to raise the British one time and time again. This tug
or war ended in 1793 with the signing of the Versailles Treaty, in
which England recognized Spain's sovereignty over the archipelago.
Trade with England, however, was maintained.
After 300 years of tumultuous history, the results were a proud race
with mahogany skin, light-colored eyes, an English accented with the
rhythm of the Caribbean, devout Protestants and believers in magic.
History which embraces settlements of Dutch, French, African, English
and Spanish who fought over, won, lost and occupied these lands on
different occasions.
A melting pot of all these races and cultures, out of which emerged the
Caribbean people.
Chinese, Arabs and continental Colombians later arrived to settle here.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+ni0012)
The Caribbean coast, because of its proximity to the West Indies,
historically has been the site of foreign intervention and non-Hispanic
immigration from black and indigenous groups from the Caribbean and
from British settlers and pirates.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+ni0013)
In the west and highland areas where the Spanish settled, the
indigenous population was almost completely wiped out by the rapid
spread of new diseases, for which the native population had no
immunity, and the virtual enslavement of the remainder of the
indigenous people
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+ni0015)
In the late 1600s, the Miskito, who lived in Nicaragua's Caribbean
lowlands, began to be exploited by English "filibusters" (irregular
military adventurers) intent on encroaching on Spanish landowners. In
1687 the English governor of Jamaica named a Miskito who was one of his
prisoners, "King of the Mosquitia Nation," and declared the region to
be under the protection of the English crown. This event marked the
beginning of a long rivalry between Spanish (and later Nicaraguan) and
British authorities over the sovereignty of the Caribbean coast, which
effectively remained under British control until the end of the
nineteenth century.
kca...@yahoo.com
Samo...@aol.com wrote:
> kca...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > It's obvious you "don't care" about others rights, however there
> > is a very prominent Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guaranteeing
> > the rights of the conquered Mexicans who btw are the descendants
> > of the Spanish-Indian, Indian-Spanish, Mexicans and Spanish.
> > One of those "Rights" is to speak their mother tongue which
> > is the Spanish language.
>
>
> What part of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guaranteed the right of
> holdover Mexicans to speakie Spanish? And if such a clasue in that
> treaty did exist,
> surely it applies to ONLY those holdover Meixcnas
It also applies to their desendants, and any Spanish speaking
person who is here today. From the time of the TGH there
have been open borders between the U.S. and Mexico. All those
folks are also included in the TGH who have been going back and
forth like they have for centuries upon centuries, and their "Rights
Respected".
Samo...@aol.com
> It also applies to their desendants, and any Spanish speaking
> person who is here today.
Does it really? What specific part of the TGH allows for that? The
treaty specifcially refers to those holdover Mexicans, not to any
future Hispanick group that forced their way into the USA. And no
Spanish language rights were guarenteed. I have gone through that
treaty with a fine toothed comb and no part of it guarentess for
Spanish being the official language of the USA or for Mexicans to be
allowed unlimited Spanish language service in the USA. In fact, the
treaty talked of rights for those Mexicans who assumed the character of
the USA, i.e. speakie English.
> From the time of the TGH there
> have been open borders between the U.S. and Mexico.
Because Mexicans wanted no part of the USA when life was hard, so there
was no need to secure our borders.
> All those
> folks are also included in the TGH who have been going back and
> forth like they have for centuries upon centuries, and their "Rights
> Respected".
There was no "going back between the countries". They were too far way
from each other.
from "The Spanish in North America", by David Weber, copyright 1992 by
Yale University.
After the Yuma revolt of 1781, and the establishment of
California's 4th presidio at Santa Barbara in 1782, no large influx of
soldiers or colonists arrived, no additional presidios were built, and
only one town was established - a half hearted effort in 1797 to
establish a villa near mission Santa Cruz. The closing of the Sonora
road in 1781 had made California dependent once again on the sea for
all communication with New Spain, and the province offered no
attractions that would prompt immigrants to make the arduous journey.
Samo...@aol.com
> In that case, I'll just stay here in the USA where Spanish has
> been spoken for 500 years.
You still haven't told me what city you live in, Senyor.
If you were to read any books about trappers or our overlanders headed
out west, you will find out they NEVER ever encountered any Hispanicks.
If they did encounter anyone, it was always Indians and the land was
undeveloped the entire way. It was Anglos who built the USA, the
country Hispanicks pay their life savings to be sneaked into.
from "The Plains Across", by John Unruh, copyright 1979.
page 127
Johannes Dyck and 2 companions began their return journey from
California in, apparently, 1853, with considerable quantities of gold
dust. Dyck, thanks to a fast horse, escaped an Indian attack, but his 2
companions were not so lucky, and all the gold they had been carrying
was lost.
A particularly dangerous year for eastbound travelers was 1856, when
the bodies of at least 8 returning Californians were found along the
Humboldt River after apparent robbery-murders......
The threat of Indian depredations was present along the entire trail,
but only rarely were fatalities recorded. Indians were presumable
responsible for the death of an 1850 eastbound traveler who was shot
with an arrow while standing guard duty along the Humboldt River.
Another eastbound group, which made an 1851 west-to-east crossing in 62
days, fought 5 skirmishes with Indians, during one of which a member of
their traveling party was killed. In 1853 two men returning from Oregon
killed between 1 and 8 Indians who had been harassing them and then
quickly joined a larger eastbound party for protection.
page 135
Forty-Niner John H. Benson's observations about Indian rumors
illustrate the typical process. Less than 2 weeks into the journey,
rumors of Indian atrocities were so widespread that a large number of
overlanders, including Benson's traveling company, gravitated together
for protection. For 3 days they traveled in battle readiness and slept
with guns at hand.....
page 158
James Longmire discovered on 2 occasions in 1853 that Indians were by
no means devoid of effective bargaining techniques. At the Salmon Falls
crossing an Indian, after swimming a few horses over the Snake River,
mounted one of the best horses and rode off, while his employers
remained helpless on the other side of the river. Later, in crossing
horses over the Columbia River, Chinook Indians suddenly halted their
exertions in midstream, demanding more money to complete the project.
They got it, since any further delay would likely have been disastrous.
page 163
Then too, a number of overlanders ruefully discovered that even when
a horse trade had been accomplished they could not be absolutely
certain that the horse was definitely theirs, since a fellow emigrant,
from who the horse had initially been stolen, occasionally came up to
claim his property. This practice was common enough for the Salt Lake
Deseret News to warn overlanders about it. Emigrant diaries are dotted
with references to such incidents: in 1845 an Indian stole a horse from
one overlander and sold it to another traveling to his rear; in 1849
Elijah Farnham purchased a horse from an Indian near Independence which
was later claimed by its rightful owner; the next year James Blood
learned that horses stolen from their party had been purchased by an
emigrant traveling slightly behind them; and a 1855 train which
purchased 15 horses from a group of Indians on the Platte River later
encountered the owners of most of the horses and presumably had to give
up their newly acquired animals.
There was also a profitable variation to the deceitful tactic.
Indians would steal horses of other stock, make an agreement on a
certain price for "finding" the animals with the emigrants from whom
they had stolen them, and then quickly appear with the animals to claim
their reward. Overlanders suspected Indians of employing this strategy
as early as 1843. P.V. Crawford, nearing his Oregon destination in
1851, experienced and commented on this profitable Indian game: "We got
ready to start and found that 5 of our horses were gone, which delayed
us till late in the evening, when they were brought back by some
Indians, who had agreed to find them for 1 dollar per head. This we
understood."
page 182
In 1849 Elijah Howell camped near a physician who had not traveled for
nearly a week after Indians had stolen all of his cattle along the
Humboldt River. Alonzo Delano told of one train on the Lassen route in
1849 from which 27 mules had been stolen during one night. These
emigrants had no alternative but to leave their wagons and belongings
and start packing in with their few remaining mules. One man walked for
3 days without food, others fell exhausted in the road and had to be
rescued by men who came out from the California settlements. A party of
Mormons returning to Salt Lake City from California in 1850 reported
that in a canyon stronghold near the head of the Humboldt River,
Indians were keeping approximately 1,000 head of animals which they had
stolen from migrants. Indian agent Garland Hurt, after traveling along
the Humboldt River in 1856, believed that property had been stolen form
virtually every emigrant train. That year Hurt estimated that at least
300 cattle and 60 to 70 horses and mules had already been stolen or
killed along that section of trail.
page 183
Less common but recurring often enough for guidebook writers to warn
travelers accordingly was the confrontation risked by overlanders
wandering off some distance from their traveling companions. If met by
Indians they were entirely at their mercy. On a number of occasions,
however, such persons, when mounted, made it safely back to their
camps, but not without having been closely pursued and badly
frightened. While the Indians were sometimes friendly, they were always
cognizant of the choice opportunity to acquire booty. Probably the two
most famous such incidents in migration history occurred in 1841 and
1842. Nicholas Dawson, while out hunting, was surrounded by a party of
Cheyenne Indians who took his mule, gun and pistol. Later the Indians
returned all but the pistol. Dawson was known thereafter as "Cheyenne."
The following year Lansford Hastings and Mr. Lovejoy were captured,
robbed, and threatened with death when they lingered behind their
traveling company to inscribe their names on Independence Rock.
During the antebellum era of a few overlanders caught in such
fashion were killed. The more usual result was as embarrassing as it
was frightening. Besides being robbed of all possessions they were
carrying at the time, emigrants were stripped of their clothes and had
no recourse but to walk back to their encampments stark naked. Loren
Hastings, after witnessing a series of unhappy encounters with Pawnee
Indians - begging, two attempts to steal horses, and the stripping of
two emigrant hunters - was sufficiently infuriated to declare, "The
Pawnee Indians are the greatest thieves I ever saw - the best way I
think to civilize or Christianize Indians is with powder & lead, & this
is they way we shall do hereafter." Pawnees caught other hunters in
1847 and the results were identical, except that one group was spared
the indignity of losing all their clothes, being permitted to retain
their hats and boots. Naked overlanders hiked back to their companies
during the years of the gold rush with some regularity, but by then the
outcome was not always only humiliating. A small party of 7 men, for
example, was surrounded near the Humboldt River in 1854. All were
stripped of their clothing before 3 emigrants managed to escape. The
Indians killed the remaining 4 men.
page 187
Chester Ingersoll's 1847 party had 4 oxen, 1 cow, and 1 horse stolen
along the Humboldt River. The company's response, according to
Ingersoll's concise prose was, "After that we shot at every Indian we
saw - this soon cleared the way." Forty-Niner Ansel McCall conversed
with three Missourians threatening to shoot the first Indian they saw,
since they believed their missing horses had been stolen by Indians.
John Wood reported in 1850 that emigrants traveling on the Hastings
Cutoff, after hearing that 5 overlanders had been "barbariously
murdered" by Indians, became very revenge-minded: "...every Indian is
shot that can be seen." Joseph Francl met a 172-person train along the
Humboldt River in 1854, which, having experienced some fatal Indian
assaults, "shot and killed every Indian they met on sight, and for that
reason the Indians got bad."
page 189
Whatever their motivations, Indians began in 1845 to kill overland
emigrants. However, the Indian attacks of the 1840's and 1850's did
not, as George Stewart has pointed out, follow the normal Hollywood
scenario. Since the overland emigrants were least vulnerable when their
wagons were encircled, they were only rarely attacked when in such a
strong defensive formation. Rather, assaults on entire trains came when
the wagons were spread out along the trail. Nor were pack trains
immune: near Fort Hall in 1851 a small company of men was fired upon by
Indians concealed in bushes alongside the trail. As this company
disintegrated, 8 men were killed and the Indians appropriated $1,000 in
cash, $2,000 in property, and 12 horses. Fatalities usually resulted
from short skirmishes and not from long-drawn-out battles or sieges.
Most overlanders died individually in isolated incidents, only rarely
were immigrants killed in proportions justifying the overused word
"massacre." Most overlanders were killed while out hunting or when
otherwise absent from their train, when on guard duty, when small
emigrant parties tracked Indians in an attempt to retrieve stolen
stock, in sudden flare-ups at toll bridges, or when tribute payments
were refused. A number of deaths also occurred along the Humboldt River
when Indians fired from cover at passing travelers.
Very little is known about the few major antebellum "massacres"
occurring along the overland trail, except that they usually took place
on the southern Oregon and northern California routes. In 1852, for
example, on receiving news of severe Indian depredations in that
region, volunteer companies were sent from both Oregon and California.
The Oregon rescue party found and buried the mutilated bodies of 14
emigrants near the Lost River in mid-September, while the California
volunteers, commanded by Ben Wright of Yreka, California, buried 22
mutilated bodies and such grim reminders of the attendant atrocities as
female scalps near "Bloody Point" on Tule Lake. Wright's volunteers,
who left Yreka on August 29, arrived at Tule Lake just in time to
rescue a beleaguered 16 wagon train numbering between 40 and 60 persons
which was presumably encircled for protection. Wright's men liberated
the train while killing between 20 and 35 Indians.
More is known about several major tragedies on the main overland
trail. At midday on August 20, 1854, approximately 30 Snake River
Indians approached a small 5 wagon train and attempted to steal a
horse. When an overlander shot the thief a deadly battle commenced. The
small train was the advance portion of a much larger company which had
previously split into three sections. The day before, three men had
been killed in the third segment 70 miles behind when 11 Indians had
suddenly opened fire after coming up ostensibly to trade. But it was
the small advance party which suffered most on that Sunday afternoon
only 25 miles east of Fort Boise. Only 2 of the 20 persons in the train
escaped: one by feigning death after he had been knocked down, the
other after a painful journey of several days to Fort Boise with an
arrow in his side, his injury having rendered him unconscious until the
day after the attack. These two surviving brothers, Newton and William,
were young sons of Alexander Ward of Missouri, apparently the leader of
the train, whose large family comprised nearly half the traveling
group.
Seven men, traveling east on the trail that day in search of a stray
cow, came upon the ghastly scene as the Indians were plundering the
wagons and engaged them in battle. Soon one of their number, a 17 year
old boy, was killed, bringing the death toll to 19 in the "Ward
massacre." The small party was forced to retreat but did not rescue
Newton Ward. 2 days later 18 men left Fort Boise in the futile hope of
finding additional survivors. The condition of the victims they buried
was such that Oregon newspaper editors issued frenzied demands for
revenge. The women and young girls had been brutally ravaged. A hot
piece of iron had been thrust into the body of one, another had been
scalped and her head savagely beaten with clubs, and the pregnant Mrs.
Ward had been raped and then virtually cut to pieces. At the site of
the tragedy the ground was covered with blood. Later investigations
disclosed that Indian squaws had been responsible for much of the
tomahawk mutilation on the bodies of the women. The young children had
apparently been burned alive. 41 cattle, 5 horses, assorted other
goods, and from $2,000 to $3,000 had also been taken.
skm...@msn.com
You are full of shit. English was established as this nation's
language after this land was called and governned by the U.S. Doesn't
matter what languages were spoken before then. And it isn't about
freedom of speech. Its about being respectful and not rude. Speak
your native language at home or go back to a Latin country where
Spanish is the language, it isn't here.
Gurriato
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150579252....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
No señor, la lengua madre de los mejicanos es el español. El nahuatl era la
lengua de algunas tribus antes de la Conquista. La mayoría de las tribus de
lo que hoy es Méjico no hablaban nahuatl. En el Yucantán, en Nuevo León y en
muchísimos otros lugares de Méjico nunca se ha hablado nahuatl. Los aztecas
habían llegado a Tenochtitlán muy poquitos años antes que los españoles
Tampoco creo que el apache sea la lengua madre de los habitantes de
Arizona.
No tiene usted NPI de lo que está hablando, Senyor.
DON NICANOR TOCANDO EL TAMBOR
Gurriato
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150579983....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> kca...@yahoo.com wrote:
San Agustín ( La Florida) se fundó el año 1565. En el año 2003 se cumplen
501 años de la fundación de San Agustín por Pedro Menéndez de Avilés. Es la
ciudad de origen europeo más más antigua de los EEUU. Los comientos de esta
ciudad se pusieron 55 años antes de que los Peregrinos desembarcaran en
Plymouth Rock. El Castillo de San Marcos, fundado en el 1695, es la
fortaleza de piedra más antigua del país.
¡Fuera de nuestro territorio, putos gabardos!
LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE
Samo...@aol.com
> San Agustín ( La Florida) se fundó el año 1565. En el año 2003 se cumplen
> 501 años de la fundación de San Agustín por Pedro Menéndez de Avilés.
That town:
1) was abandoned by Hispanicks and'
2) was not what grew into the USA
http://www.flausa.com/cms/index.php/id=184
1763 - At the end of the Seven Years' War, England gives Cuba to
Spain in exchange for St. Augustine, whose citizens pack up for Cuba.
from "The Spanish in North America", by David Weber, copyright 1992 by
Yale University.
England took possession of Florida in 1763. Eager to salvage its
colonists in Florida, the Spanish Crown offered free transport to those
willing to leave. Within a year, Spanish residents of Florida completed
a painful exodus, selling their real estate at bargain prices to
English speculators, and packing their movable belongings onto crowded
vessels. At St Augustine, over 3,000 Spanish subjects moved to Cuba.
Only a few Spaniards remained behind.
Samo...@aol.com
> No señor, la lengua madre de los mejicanos es el español. El nahuatl era la
> lengua de algunas tribus antes de la Conquista. La mayoría de las tribus de
> lo que hoy es Méjico no hablaban nahuatl. En el Yucantán, en Nuevo León y en
> muchísimos otros lugares de Méjico nunca se ha hablado nahuatl.
I don;t give a shit if many places in todays Mexico didn;t speakie
Nahautl. Nahautl represents the great Aztec society, the highpoint of
what is now Mexico.
The Spanish langauge respresents the enslavement of native Mexicans,
the theft of all their wealth, rape of their women and the destriuction
of the beautiful native Mexican society.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian/issues05/jan05/aztec.html
Five hundred years ago, in Mesoamerica, an empire held sway whose
creative energy and sheer ruthlessness announced a long and powerful
future. Yet the dominion of the Aztecs, a once-migrant people who had
settled in the central highlands of what is now Mexico, lasted only
from about 1428 to 1521. In the space of just a few generations all was
staked and lost. Amazingly, from the founding of their capital city,
Mexico-Tenochtitlan, in the early 14th century, to the apex of their
power, in the late 15th, the Aztecs built one of the most dazzling
civilizations in history. Rising from the marshes of an island in Lake
Tetzcoco, the site of present-day Mexico City, Tenochtitlan grew into a
sort of Venice of the New World, dominated by towering pyramids and
traversed by a network of canals spanned by bridges so wide that ten
horsemen could cross them abreast. The metropolis also served as the
nerve center of an empire that extended from central Mexico south into
what is today Guatemala. The Aztecs were so disciplined, so skilled in
the arts of war, that their realm seemed invincible. Then, in February
1519, eleven ships led by Spanish explorer Hernán Cortés appeared off
the coast of the Yucatán Peninsula. By August 1521, Cortés and his
Indian allies had conquered Tenochtitlan. The glorious city lay in
ruins. The annihilation was so thorough that today it is difficult to
fully picture the sophistication, opulence and sheer grandeur of the
Aztec Empire.
pomp...@hotmail.com
Samo...@aol.com wrote:
> Gurriato escribio:
> > San Agustín ( La Florida) se fundó el año 1565. En el año 2003 se cumplen
> > 501 años de la fundación de San Agustín por Pedro Menéndez de Avilés.
>
> That town:
> 1) was abandoned by Hispanicks and'
> 2) was not what grew into the USA
"It is the Manifest Destiny of the Mexican People to recover the lands
stolen in 1847 and keep the best looking gringas, the nicest condos,
the fastest cars and give the rest back to the Indians." -- His
David Eduardo
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150602499....@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Gurriato escribio:
> No señor, la lengua madre de los mejicanos es el español. El nahuatl era
> la
> lengua de algunas tribus antes de la Conquista. La mayoría de las tribus
> de
> lo que hoy es Méjico no hablaban nahuatl. En el Yucantán, en Nuevo León y
> en
> muchísimos otros lugares de Méjico nunca se ha hablado nahuatl.
>I don;t give a shit if many places in todays Mexico didn;t speakie
>Nahautl. Nahautl represents the great Aztec society, the highpoint of
>what is now Mexico.
As was said, and you read incorrectly, most of what is Mexico did not speak
Náhuatl. Threre were many dozens of languages spoken, including Mayan (which
was probably spoken by more total people then) and the language that unified
what is now Mexico is Spanish.
>The Spanish langauge respresents the enslavement of native Mexicans,
>the theft of all their wealth, rape of their women and the destriuction
>of the beautiful native Mexican society.
That was 500 years ago, give or take a decade or two. It does not matter
what happened then since the language that dominates Mexico today is
Spanish.
Samo...@aol.com
> That was 500 years ago, give or take a decade or two. It does not matter
> what happened then since the language that dominates Mexico today is
> Spanish.
And I want to correct a wrong. Nahuatl should be the language of
Mexico, not Spanish. Nahuatl was there first, by thousands of years.
The people who made today's Mexico, were indigenous Indians, not
Spaniards.
from "CONQUISTADORS", by Jean Descola, copyright 1957.
page 211
Cortes' triumph was complete. All he had to do was to make his conquest
secure. First he had to raze the remains of the capital and construct a
new city in the middle of the lagoon. Every trace of Aztec presence
there was effaced, and on the site of the great teocalli arose the
cathedral of San Francisco. A Franciscan monastery took the place of
Montezuma's aviary, and in the city center was built a "plaza mayor"
that was soon noisy with Spanish gatherings. It took Indian slaves four
years, under the lash of conquerors, to destroy the face of the former
Tenochtitlan, and it was a bitter paradox that Aztec hands carved the
first capital of the Spanish Empire in America from ancestral stones.
Samo...@aol.com
but those same lands were stolen by Hispanicks from Indians, Senyor.
from "Inside Central America", by Clifford Krauss, copyright 1991.
page 35
Luis Arenas, a rich coffee and cardamom spice planter in the remote
northern reaches of Quiche province, was known as the Tiger of Ixcan
for his greed and ruthlessness. One night in 1975, he provided the cuxa
(moonshine) and other party accoutrements for a grand fiesta in the
Ixil Indian town of Chajul. Well into the night, with local leaders in
a drunken stupor, Arenas offered to buy some of the town's prime corn
land, and presented a deed approved by the Guatemalan government.
Unable to read the terms of the contract, a few leaders thumbprinted
their acceptance. Chajul later appealed to the National Indsitute of
Agrarian Transformation to annul the document, but the government
agency backed Arenas
page 59
Their appetite for land grew when European textile production and trade
boomed in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. Wealthy Salvadoran
colonialists stole lands from the Indians to cultivate Indigo from
which to extract rich blue dye. As the Spanish made fortunes, rotting
indigo frequently attracted vermin and disease in the overcrowded
mills. Reports by Catholic priests indicate that the pestilence that
accompanied indigo production wiped out entire Indian villages.......
Samo...@aol.com
> the theft of all their wealth, rape of their women and the destriuction
> of the beautiful native Mexican society.
from "Triumphs and Tragedy, a History of the Mexican People", by Ramon
Eduardo Ruiz, copyright 1992.
page 56
Only by exploiting the land, which required Indian labor, could the
Spanish colony flourish. Thus began the rape of the Indian, especially
brutal between 1521 and 1550. The pillage of the Indian community
included the taking of women, "the most beautiful and the virgins,"
according to the natives of Santo Tomas Ajusco; the Spaniards "were
never satisfied."
Pacification of northern Mexico began under Beltran Nunyo de
Guzman, a corrupt and sanctimonious lawyer of noble family with friends
in high places. Guzman set off for Mihoacan in 1529, acquiring almost
immediately a reputation for cruelty. The natives knew him as the
"senyor de la borca y cuchillo", the man who relied on the noose and
knife to kill. Among his wanton acts one stood out: the hanging of six
Indian chieftains simply because they failed to sweep the path over
which he would walk. For six years, this sadistic Spaniards pillaged
Mihoacan, southern Zacatecas, Jalisco, and Culiacan, a region baptized
Nueva Galicia.
page 61
Encomenderos, first off, had their pick of the Indian women, whether
with husband or not. They used them as domestics and as concubines and,
when they were no longer useful, drove them away. On the sugar
plantations, the encomenderos "married" them off to their slaves. Some
beat their Indian to death; others buried them alive; the less cruel
killed them with guns. When they fled from his grasp, the encomendero
pursued them with bloodhounds. Cortes and fellow encomenderos earned
money by selling their Indians into slavery. Juan Ponce de Leon, one of
these encomenderos, beat his Indians so badly that the authorities
arrested him for crimes. The best of the encomenderos drove their
Indians from dawn to dusk, while the heartless robbed them of their
goods.
page 68
Zumarraga, one of the most fanatical of them, believed that they must
discipline Indian heretics. As apolistic inquisitor, he brought before
him some 19 Indian "sinners", one being Don Carlos Chichimecatecuhtli,
whose notorious trial in Texcoco in 1539 ended with his burning at the
stake. In Mihoacan, a Augustinian zealot had 4 Indian heretics tied to
a pole in the town plaza, laid quantities of wood at their feet, and
then lit a fire, which the wind supposedly blew out of control.
Whatever the friar's intent, 2 of the Indians were burned alive and the
others scarred for life. Another friar in Mihoacan had an Indian
tortured in order to compel him to confess his sins. On the next day,
when the jailer came to his cell, he found that he had hanged himself
to escape further torture. Similar accounts besmirched the reputation
of the Franciscans in Yucatan, where they kept a tight rein for over 2
centuries. Beatings were common, as well as reliance on church jails to
woo the unconvinced. At church masses, the absent were noted and, when
caught, whipped.
page 77
The dramatic decline of its native population also recast the
society of New Spain. The death of millions of Indians, as well as the
fickleness of mining, shaped the silver age. According to some
scholars, of the 25 million people who dwelt in central Mexico in 1519,
just slightly over one million survived over a century later. Even when
the original figure is cut in half, as dissenting sages urge, and the
number of survivors is doubled, the loss of Indian life is still
breathtaking. Not until the mid-seventeenth century did the decline
come to an end. No other European conquest had such devastating
repercussions.
Illness alone did not kill the Indians. The black legend off a
ruthless Spain was no myth. The Spaniard was directly responsible for
the death of millions of native peoples. The Spaniards, after all, came
to get rich, if not with gold and silver, off the labor of the Indian.
Not exempt from blame were the missionaries, often the same friars
who defended the Indian. Determined to erect temples, convents, and
monasteries, they demanded labor of their neophytes and settled them on
mission lands, where European maladies spread like wildfires. Every one
of the Catholic shrines, usually edifices for the use of a few friars
and staffed with a raft of Indian servants, arose at the expense of the
Indian's way of life. The clergy and their secular allies, furthermore,
disturbed the ratio of food to man by reducing the numbers of dirt
farmers while multiplying the ranks of townsfolk who must be fed. The
policy of congregating Indians in pueblos, which exposed them to
European diseases, exacerbated their plight. Spaniards, also, upset the
ecological balance, cutting down the forests and using the wood for
their buildings or fuel. Within a century, vast stretches of land lay
barren of trees. The iron plow cut deep into the soil, often on
unprotected slopes; when the rains came, they carried the topsoil away,
leaving ravines and gullies. Cattle roamed freely, stripping the earth
of its grass cover and adding to its woes in time of rain, or, more
than once, wandered into the fields or corn and squash tilled by
Indians, destroying crops and enlarging their food supply. Colonial
record are replete with Indian complaints of damage done by cattle.
The pivotal injury done to the Indian, maybe the clue to his demise,
only students of the human psyche can measure. By intent and by
accident, Spaniards altered drastically the native cultures. Conquest
was a traumatic experience because the Spaniards made no effort to
reach a cultural compromise. The Indians, recalled Bernardino de
Sahagun, we so "trampled underfoot that not a vestige remained of what
they had been." Sahagun exaggerated, but none of the major Indian
groups, the Aztecs included, weathered the Conquest; only groups of
marginal importance to the Spaniards, the Maya for one, survived.
Still, even in Yucatan, the conquest was a terrible episode. The
arrival of the Spaniards reduced Maya society essentially to one class,
converting even the native elite, which lost all but a few of its
privileges, to milpa farmers. Eventually, there were no native
soldiers, no full-time craftsmen, no shopkeepers or millers of flour,
occupations reserved for non-Indians.
Subjugation transformed other aspects of native life. Before the
arrival of the European, Indians ate raw food and vegetables in
abundance and drank alcohol sparingly. The Europeans changed that.
Among the Maya, for example, a people who drank sparingly before the
Conquest, alcoholism became a major vice and the drinking of
aguardiente, a raw, white rum, commonplace. Indians were also told to
change their ancestral way of dress, to give up loincloth for
zaraguelles, white cotton trousers, standard wear by the end of the
16th century. Women of the humbler families, accustomed to leaving
their bosoms naked, were shamed into covering them with the huipil,
before long their traditional blouse.
page 89
Cortes also introduced the first African slaves to New Spain. Most
of them were of the Islamic faith, hailing from the western Sudan, the
Congo, and the Gulf of Guinea. The Spaniards had first enslaved the
Indian, at times placing him in chains, as had Nunyo de Guzman in Nueva
Galicia. In the Panuco region of the Gulf of Mexico, they sold into
slavery 15,000 Indians shipping them to the sugar plantations of the
Caribbean. Spaniards held as many as 200,000 Indian slaves in 1542....
Samo...@aol.com
> the destriuction
> of the beautiful native Mexican society.
from "Great Conquerors of South and Central America", by A. Hyatt
Verrill, copyright 1929
page 19
It is stated by the treasurer and the notary of Pizarro that it
required 60 Incan goldsmiths working steadily day and night for 1 month
to reduce the gold and silver objects accumulated at Cajamarca to
bullion, and these were but a small portion of the whole obtained by
the conquerors in Puru. At another place, an immense stone statue was
found and broken up by order of the priests. So huge was this piece of
sculpture that 30 men were employed for 3 days to destroy it. In
Mexico, marvelous mosaics were ripped to pieces for the turquoise and
semiprecious stones of which they were composed; woodwork was burned to
recover the gold nails that were used, and wonderful mantles and
costumes of feathers, and priceless textiles, were reduced to ashes in
order to secure the golden threads of the fabrics.
Human sufferings may be forgotten in time, human lives are replaced
by others; but the products of human minds and hands, the records of
hundreds of generations, the histories of races, the monuments, the
carvings, the architecture and the thousand and one things that tell
the story of countless centuries of a race's development, can never be
duplicated. Once destroyed, they are lost to the world forever.
Gurriato
Gurriato
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150608310.7...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Davo Eduardo wrote:
>> That was 500 years ago, give or take a decade or two. It does not matter
>> what happened then since the language that dominates Mexico today is
>> Spanish.
>
>
> And I want to correct a wrong. Nahuatl should be the language of
> Mexico, not Spanish. Nahuatl was there first, by thousands of years.
> The people who made today's Mexico, were indigenous Indians, not
> Spaniards.
Otro gilipollas que se ha creido las trolas que le contó mi paisano don
Hernando, el Marqués del Valle, al emperador Quirlos Canto para engrandecer
la magnitud de su conquista. En realidad Tenochtitlan era un hormiguero de
cafres antropófagos que no conocian la rueda, los animales de tiro, el
hierro y cuya escritura se limitaba a pintar unos cuantos dibujitos para
contar las historias. Unas cuantas tribus analfabetas coalicionadas que
crecieron gracias al cultivo del maiz, único adelanto cultural que los
separaba de la absoluta barbarie de las tribus nómadas y que nada sabían
del mundo mas allá de los doscientos kms a la redonda que componía su
"imperio".
Tenochtitlán se parecía a la Tebas del Antiguo Egipto 3.000 años a.d.J.C y
no a la Venecia del siglo XVI como escribían quienes querían asombrar al
mundo entero con sus hazañas. Algo así como en las manifestaciones en las
que los organizadores dicen que fueron millón y medio de personas, mientras
que la policía asegura que se trataba de tres o cuatro docenas.
Si quinientas personas con unas docenas de ballestas y treinta caballos
fueron capaces de dominar a esa sociedad, Tenochtital no creo que fuera un
medio Guasintón ni mucho menos. Así que menos lobos, Caperucita.
GURRIATEMBERG
Gurriato
Creo que andas obsesionado con el monotema.
No les des más vueltas, los hispanos somos superiores al gabardinamen, te
pongas como te pongas y digas los que digas. Dentro de una o dos
generaciones los anglos habreís acabado en el cubo de la basura de la
historia. Estáis más quemados que la pipa de un indio
Méjico, por el tamaño de su población, está destinado a ser el país
directivo del mundo hispano, y el mundo hispano va a ser el directivo de las
Américas. Eso se ve venir y es un proceso irreversible.
Si te crees que los frijoleros ahora, de golpe y porrazo, se van a poner
todos a tomar lecciones de nahuatl para darte gusto, lo mejor que puedes
hacer es esperar sentado. Las machaconas repeticiónes de tópicos
seudoprogres que los yuppies se han sacado del escroto, en nada van a
cambiar las cosas.
Cambia de disco, pinche gabardo.
LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150609208.4...@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
Gurriato
<pomp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150603012....@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Excellency don Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna.
Hombre, en lineas generales estoy de acuerdo con el plan, pero creo que la
Florida habría que devolvérsela a los cubanos para que los cigarreros nos
sigan liando puros. El resto, pa'l frijoleramen. A los indios ya les basta y
sobra con los casinos, carallo, no conviene ser demasiado avaricioso.
En cuanto a los condos, me parece una tontería, dado que todos los
Reconquistadores vamos a tener un palacete mantenido por lacayos gabardos.
Y nada de coches rápidos, eso de la prisa es cosa de gringos. Yo pienso ir a
todos lados en mi silla gestatoria, llevado majestuososamente a hombros del
gabardinamen. Creo que sería menester, ahora que se acerca el día señalado,
que menda lerenda le diera unas lecciones de buen gusto y buenas maneras a
Vueciencia, que sigue teniendo los gustos horteras de un puto James Bond.
Joe S.
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150608310.7...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Davo Eduardo wrote:
>> That was 500 years ago, give or take a decade or two. It does not matter
>> what happened then since the language that dominates Mexico today is
>> Spanish.
>
>
> And I want to correct a wrong. Nahuatl should be the language of
> Mexico, not Spanish. Nahuatl was there first, by thousands of years.
> The people who made today's Mexico, were indigenous Indians, not
> Spaniards.
>
And by the same token, the language of the USofA should be Mohican,
Cherokee, Creek, Powhatan, Apache, Navajo . . . English is a foreign import
forced on the native people.
Samo...@aol.com
> And by the same token, the language of the USofA should be Mohican,
> Cherokee, Creek, Powhatan, Apache, Navajo .
Why so? The Indians played no part at all in either creating or
developing the USA, mnot even as slaves. The USA was created by Anglos
and developed into a world power by them and other non-Iberian Whites.
from "CONQUISTADORS", by Jean Descola, copyright 1957.
page 211
Gurriato
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150579481....@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> kca...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> SPANISH LANGUAGE USAGE TO INCREASE - NOT DECREASE IN THE USA
>
>
> translation: Latin Americans are genetically unable to create their own
> successful countries, so they sneak into ANGLO founded countries (USA)
> instead. How is that any different from a 50 year old man that has
> lived with his mommy his entire life, still sucks her tit and still
> wears a diaper?
Os aviso de que este pobre hijo de puta es un nazi. Ese comentario sobre la
inferioridad genética de los hispanos es la repanocha. No es un comentario
en plan de cachondeo para meter gresca en la conversación y andar vacilando.
Este carajo a la vela está profundamente convencido de la veracidad de las
mamadas que nos cuenta sin darse punto de reposo.
GURRIATEMBERG
kca...@yahoo.com
Samo...@aol.com wrote:
> pomp...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > "It is the Manifest Destiny of the Mexican People to recover the lands
> > stolen in 1847....
>
> but those same lands were stolen by Hispanicks from Indians, Senyor.
It is a *myth*. duh
Samo...@aol.com
> Otro gilipollas que se ha creido las trolas que le contó mi paisano don
could you instead post that in the Nahuatl language, Senyor? I would
feel much more comfortable knowing the native, indigenous language of
Mexico has not been wiped out. Surely, it must matter to you, as
Mexicans and all other Hispanick groups claim they are all for
"preserving the heritage of the area".
Samo...@aol.com
> Méjico, por el tamaño de su población, está destinado a ser el país
> directivo del mundo hispano, y el mundo hispano va a ser el directivo de las
> Américas. Eso se ve venir y es un proceso irreversible.
Then that will be the end of the USA. We will then take on the chrcter
of Hispanick societies: the anarchy, theft, crime, poverty, corruption,
violence......
Samo...@aol.com
> Ese comentario sobre la
> inferioridad genética de los hispanos es la repanocha.
It's true, Latin Americans of Spanish ancestry are descended from
criminals:
from "Great Conquerors of South and Central America", by A. Hyatt
Verrill, copyright 1929
page 2.
It was natural that the men selected by leaders of such expeditions as
set sail for the New World were a far from desirable type as colonists
or settlers. The hazards of the voyages and explorations called for men
of a reckless, daring, unprincipled type. Later on Spain sent some of
her best citizens to guide the development of colonial life, but it
must be admitted that in the first stages of the venture the
participants, in considerable number, were actual or potential
criminals, smugglers, pirates, and thugs. Among the early adventurers
it was only by chance that now and then was found an out-at-elbow
cavalier, a ne'er-do-well scion of nobility, or some restless, romantic
soul of wealth and station.
from "From Columbus to Castro", by Eric Williams, copyright 1970.
page 37
In June 1497, on the occasion of Columbus' third voyage, a general
order was issued to all justices in Spain authorizing the
transportation to Hispaniola of criminals - with the exception of
heretics, traitors, counterfeiters and sodomites - in commutation of
death or prison sentences.
from the book "The Conquest of Paradise'" by Kirkpatrick Sale,
copyright 1990
page 156
....the Spaniards now on the island, some 630 of them in 1495,
perhaps as many as a thousand by 1500, and none too savory a lot. They
were more "canalla" than "hidalgo" now, for most of the gentlemen had
chosen to return to Castille, and those left behind, like those who
could be attracted out, came largely from the lower rungs of Spanish
life, some of them, Fernando reported, with clipped noses and ears,
sure sings of convicted robbers in Castille as in Espanola.
Gurriato
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150649733....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
.> "preserving the heritage of the area".
El nahuatl me importa un huevo de pato, Senyor.
A usted también, pero utiliza el tema para joder la borrega.
Nada de guardar la herencia, la vamos a dilapidar en vino y en mujeres.
Servidor solo se expresa en la castilla. De todos modos vanamente se intenta
renovar una fe a podrida en el ensalzamiento y defensa del idioma español,
tanto en sus modos de hablar, escribrir y estructuracion gramatical, cuando
a leguas se sabe, se escucha y se guacha que la parla de los
jispanoameriquequis es el terrible pochoñol, es decir el pichinglis.
Vaya Vd. con Dios, hermano, y búsque otro tema, que ese ya
jiede.
GURRIATEMBERG
Gurriato
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150580230.7...@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> kca...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> The Spanish language is as American as apple pie, and is 2nd only
>> in longevity and continuity to the Indigenous Languages.
>
> actually, Senyor, the Vikings were the first Europeans to set foot in
> the Americas. But big fuckin' deal, they didn;t create the USA, the
> country the Hispanick world pays their life savings to be sneaked into.
> Guess what Asian language was first spoken in the Americas? CHINESE.
> Guess what Polynesian language was first spoken in the Americas?
> HAWAIIAN.
No Senyor, the Spaniards were there first, long before the American
Indians (Amerinds). These guys are actually Johnnies-come-lately in the
western hemisphere, they came only
a few thousands years ago to organice the gambling casinos. Long before the
Indians ever appeared on these shores, Paleoamericans of Hispanic background
had populated it thoroughly.
We came first, we own this shit.
The first language spoken in this continent was Iberian, a proto Spanish
called Solutrean.
All archeological records indicate that the first human population of the
Americas were
from the Solutrean culture of ancient Spain and before 18,000 or 19,000
years ago. At the Meadowcroft Rockshelter in Pennsylvania, a record of
human presence has been found reaching back to 15,400 years ago and perhaps
even to 20,000 B.P. (before present). Here, and also at Cactus Hill in
Virginia (18,000 to 20,000 years ago) and Topper in South Carolina (still
undated, but very old), the deposits are quite similar to remains from the
Solutrean culture of Ice Age Europe, indicating that the early Spaniards
have crossed the Atlantic, skirting the iceberg boundaries, to colonize
eastern North America. A descendant of these Solutrean-derived settlements
was the later Clovis culture, named after discoveries at the Blackwater
Draw site near Clovis, New Mexico.
Get out of may turf, you unwelcome Micronesian newcomer
Gurriato
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150649895.4...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Joder, los gringos hablando de "violencia". En casa del herrero, cuchara de
palo.
Los libros de historia indican que el gabardinamen son unos angelitos que
en su vida han roto un plato.
GURRIATEMBERG
Españuelo
Yes, the gen forme in territories.
The USA/anglos live to north of the 36º parallel
First world: between 36 to 54 degrees. Study history and verify. Do
not irritate, exasperate.
=============================================================
"There are another worlds, but they are in this one" (Eluard)
There are five worlds, but they are in this one"
A world: between parallels 0 to 18 degrees
B world: between 18 to 36 degrees
C world: between 36 to 54 degrees
D world: between 54 to 72 degrees
E world: between 72 to 90 degrees
"Mal nommer les choses, c'est ajouter aux malheurs du monde" (Camus)
===================================================================
Gurriato
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150643068.1...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Joe S. wrote:
>> And by the same token, the language of the USofA should be Mohican,
>> Cherokee, Creek, Powhatan, Apache, Navajo .
>
> Why so? The Indians played no part at all in either creating or
> developing the USA, not even as slaves. The USA was created by Anglos
> and developed into a world power by them and other non-Iberian Whites.
This is exactly what this Anglonazy would like, that the Hispanics would
not play any part at all in his fucking little world, not even as slaves,
and continue with his racially pure Anglo world.
For many years, Hispanics were both socially and politically "invisible".
Working and living in isolated rural communities or in the separate world of
the urban "barrios", Hispanics had little impact on the political system or
on the life of the larger community. Because so few became naturalized
citizens, and those who did seldom voted, political leaders paid little
attention to them. In a pattern comming from Mexico ( ant ist corrupt sytem
run by the PRI) and other Latinamerican countries, many Hispanics tried to
have as little as possible to do with the government. The fact that may
were illegal aliens reinforced this tendency. In the past all the immigrant
waves came as legal, but Hispanis have been forced to do that hiding
themselves and keepeing their mouths shut.
Now we are seen this long-standing pattern begin to change, and this change
is making Senyor Samoa very, very nervous. Hispanics now have a wider
vision of the world and they are developing broader aspirations and more
assertiveness. The larger society's growing awareness of the problems and
rights of the minorities is providing a setting in which political awareness
could develop and express itself.
Another Mexican Colonist
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nahuatl is still spoken by over 1.5 million people.
Nahuatl schools are opening up in California,
and Nahuatl will become the language of Mexicans again.
Gurriato
"Españuelo" <espa...@senseterra.com> wrote in message
news:4flmicF...@individual.net...
> Yes, the gen forme in territories.
>
>
> The USA/anglos live to north of the 36º parallel
>
>
> First world: between 36 to 54 degrees. Study history and verify. Do not
> irritate, exasperate.
> =============================================================
>
> "There are another worlds, but they are in this one" (Eluard)
>
> There are five worlds, but they are in this one"
> A world: between parallels 0 to 18 degrees
> B world: between 18 to 36 degrees
> C world: between 36 to 54 degrees
> D world: between 54 to 72 degrees
> E world: between 72 to 90 degrees
>
> "Mal nommer les choses, c'est ajouter aux malheurs du monde" (Camus)
> ===================================================================
¿Mande?
GURRIATO
Ian...@yahoo.com
H. Reader wrote:
> <Ian...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1150481863....@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > skm...@msn.com wrote:
> >> According to Hispanic Vista.com a study was done by Hispanics USA, Inc.
> >> that concludes that the number of Spanish dominant and bi-lingual
> >> Latinos will increase by 45% in the next two decades. And its not just
> >> because of continuing immigration. Unlike other immigrant groups,
> >> even third generation Hispanics - those born to Latino parents who
> >> themselves were born in the USA will continue to speak Spanish at an
> >> extrordinarly larger number.
> >>
> >> So much for assimilation!
> >
> > There has been a spanish speaking population for hundreds of years in
> > the usa, who is not assimilating with whom?
>
> A Spanish-speaking population? What distorted nonsense.
A good portion of the united states was under spanish and
mexican control for hundreds of years. The populace spoke
spanish and also native american languages.
Samo...@aol.com
> This is exactly what this Anglonazy would like, that the Hispanics would
> not play any part at all in his fucking little world, not even as slaves,
> and continue with his racially pure Anglo world.
I don;t want a USA/Anglo hating, no-speakie English people (Hispanicks)
living here and polluting my country. Including the self proclaimed
"white" Cubans.
> For many years, Hispanic were both socially and politically "invisible".
> Working and living in isolated rural communities or in the separate world of
> the urban "barrios", Hispanics had little impact on the political system or
> on the life of the larger community.
Because you Hispanicks weren't even a part of the USA. You people
wanted no part of USA life when it was hard.
It wasn;t as if you Hispanicks were "laying low".
> Now we are seen this long-standing pattern begin to change, and this change
> is making Senyor Samoa very, very nervous.
As it should make anyone nervous. Hispanicks are pigs, they are
descended from Spanish criminals and have ruined every goddamned
society they have ever settled. Just look at them pay thier life
savings to get the hell out of their countries to sneak into
Anglolandia. Check out this typical corruption of speakie Spanish Latin
America:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/americas/14839523.htm
Jun. 17, 2006
CARACAS - They would have been serious accusations even if they had not
been made by Supreme Court Justice Luis Velázquez Alvaray:
Venezuela's judiciary is so riddled with corruption that in the Caracas
courts ''everything is for sale, from the moment you enter to the
moment you leave.'' Those who can afford it pay off a gang of lawyers
and judges, dubbed ''the band of dwarves,'' controlled by the nation's
vice president.
Samo...@aol.com
> SPANISH LANGUAGE USAGE TO INCREASE - NOT DECREASE IN THE USA
translation: Latin Americans are NOT genetically capable of creating
Samo...@aol.com
into the USA? What city did they sneak into?
Pomponio Magnus, Gobernador Constitucional del Estado Libre y Soberano de Tejas de Santa Anna, Asistente de Brujo en Catemaco, Inspector de Control de Calidad en la Fabrica de Condones El Reventon
Another Mexican Colonist wrote:
> > The mother tongue of Mexicans is NAHUATL, Senyor.
No, Mamaleuna, as a descendant of the Totonacapam I object to that.
There are many other tongues spoken in Mexico besides the Nahuatl
family.
Regal53
Zetas en Los Angeles y San Diego, Ponce de Leon habia llegado muchisisimo
antes a Florida para fundar la primera ciudad en este pais anglo con nombre
iberico San Agustin. Como te quedo el ojo?
<Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150682266.1...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
kca...@yahoo.com
Samo...@aol.com wrote:
> kca...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > It also applies to their desendants, and any Spanish speaking
> > person who is here today.
>
> And no Spanish language rights were guarenteed. I have gone through that
> treaty with a fine toothed comb
Better get another comb, yours must be toothless
like you are Samoa.
> and no part of it guarentess for
> Spanish being the official language of the USA or for Mexicans to be
> allowed unlimited Spanish language
The TGH promises to "Respect the Rights" of
the Mexicans (formerly Spanish, Indian-Spanish, Mexican and Indian)
further said people of the west were speaking Spanish as their mother
tongue.
*Speaking their mother tongue* is a basic right in itself.
Samo...@aol.com
> Cuando los Pilgrims llaegaron a Plymouth Rock, El Zorro ya estaba rayando
> Zetas en Los Angeles y San Diego, Ponce de Leon habia llegado muchisisimo
> antes a Florida para fundar la primera ciudad en este pais anglo con nombre
> iberico San Agustin.
Oh yeah, san Diego and St Augustine, 2 Hispanick cities that died out,
along with the rest of Spanish America:
http://www.flausa.com/cms/index.php/id=184
1763 - At the end of the Seven Years' War, England gives Cuba to
Spain in exchange for St. Augustine, whose citizens pack up for Cuba.
>From "The Spanish in North America", by David Weber, copyright 1992 by
Yale University.
England took possession of Florida in 1763. Eager to salvage its
colonists in Florida, the Spanish Crown offered free transport to those
willing to leave. Within a year, Spanish residents of Florida completed
a painful exodus, selling their real estate at bargain prices to
English speculators, and packing their movable belongings onto crowded
vessels. At St Augustine, over 3,000 Spanish subjects moved to Cuba.
Only a few Spaniards remained behind.
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/books/wcb/wcb3.htm
In 1834 San Diego became a pueblo -- or town -- officially, instead of
a military post, and civil rule had its beginnings. Juan Maria Osuna
was elected first alcalde, or mayor, although his functions included
some judicial ones not usually associated with that office. By 1838,
however, the population of San Diego had decreased so much that the
settlement was deprived of the dignity of the title pueblo and simply
made a department of the pueblo of Los Angeles. By 1840 only 140
persons called San Diego home. The presidio was crumbling away. There
is a story that the garrison finally was reduced to one man and then
disbanded, if the act could be called that, for lack of funds. At last
the tiles and furnishings of the old fort were sold by an officer to
defray the back pay that the government owed him. This left the adobe
walls unprotected; the rain soon reduced them to the hillocks of mud
which are all that are left of the first settlement on the Pacific
Coast of the United States, and the one-time capital of Upper and Lower
California. In 1840 the contents of Fort Guijarros were sold to Juan
Machado for $40. San Diego ceased to be a military town.
Another Mexican Colonist
english sucks ass.
I'm glad it's disappearing.
Governor Swill
<histor...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> There has been a spanish speaking population for hundreds of years in
>> the usa, who is not assimilating with whom?
>
> A Spanish-speaking population? What distorted nonsense.
How does it feel to have to remember to breathe?
Swill
--
"Only anti-Americans I see are those attempting to overturn the constitution, spy on American citizens without warrants, reject the Geneva Convention, gerrymander voting districts for permanent one party rule, sell off American jobs to non-democracies and lie to the American public about reasons for war." - HoneyBadger
"Press one to be monitored by the CIA, press two to be monitored by the FBI, press three to be monitored by the NSA. Press zero if you'd like to speak a live operator and have your source intimidated immediately."
Formal dinner: A place where the forks are on the left, and the politics are on the right.
God's Universe http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
Sanity Street http://governorswill.livejournal.com
Scotius
<pata...@netnitco.net> wrote:
>
><Samo...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1150580230.7...@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> kca...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>> The Spanish language is as American as apple pie, and is 2nd only
>>> in longevity and continuity to the Indigenous Languages.
>>
>> actually, Senyor, the Vikings were the first Europeans to set foot in
>> the Americas. But big fuckin' deal, they didn;t create the USA, the
>> country the Hispanick world pays their life savings to be sneaked into.
>> Guess what Asian language was first spoken in the Americas? CHINESE.
>> Guess what Polynesian language was first spoken in the Americas?
>> HAWAIIAN.
>
>No Senyor, the Spaniards were there first, long before the American
>Indians (Amerinds). These guys are actually Johnnies-come-lately in the
>western hemisphere, they came only
>a few thousands years ago to organice the gambling casinos. Long before the
>Indians ever appeared on these shores, Paleoamericans of Hispanic background
>had populated it thoroughly.
The man who wrote the above is obviously quite unhinged. The
Spaniards were most certainly not the original inhabitants of North
America, or any other part of the Americas. Clearly, the Vikings were
the first Europeans here, although some have suggested that there may
have been Irish explorers who were here even earlier than the first
Vikings. I do think that's unlikely however.
>
>We came first, we own this shit.
>
>The first language spoken in this continent was Iberian, a proto Spanish
>called Solutrean.
Is that the same language they speak on "Soul Train"?