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How much on a litre of petrol to make all public transport free?
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Andy Wainwright
May 16, 2012, 2:31:15 AM5/16/12
to
Where I live the problem isn't too many people but too many cars, a
situation repeated throughout the country. The weird thing is that
despite this situation, the price in real terms of public transport and
rail freight has risen considerably more than road.
When people are stuck in traffic, it's wasted time, which could be
anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles too.
So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
you won't be able to get home the same day.
situation repeated throughout the country. The weird thing is that
despite this situation, the price in real terms of public transport and
rail freight has risen considerably more than road.
When people are stuck in traffic, it's wasted time, which could be
anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles too.
So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
you won't be able to get home the same day.
Mel Rowing
May 16, 2012, 3:34:31 AM5/16/12
to
On May 16, 7:31 am, Andy Wainwright
Somebody pays and it's invaraibly the poor bastard who works every
hour God sends to provide all these "free" facilities. They don't come
free to him. They come hard earned so that idle buggers can swan
around enjoying them.
If they are to come free let them be free only to those who provide
them. Let the others walk!
<andrewrichardwainwri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
There is no such thing as free transport unless you hitch hike.
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
Somebody pays and it's invaraibly the poor bastard who works every
hour God sends to provide all these "free" facilities. They don't come
free to him. They come hard earned so that idle buggers can swan
around enjoying them.
If they are to come free let them be free only to those who provide
them. Let the others walk!
Nightjar
May 16, 2012, 4:06:47 AM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/2012 07:31, Andy Wainwright wrote:
...
sometimes, to get into a town from the outskirts, where I can park my
car for free.
Colin Bignell
...
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>
Buses are free, for me. That still doesn't mean I use them, except,
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>
sometimes, to get into a town from the outskirts, where I can park my
car for free.
Colin Bignell
Andy Wainwright
May 16, 2012, 4:12:11 AM5/16/12
to
rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
Greg Hennessy
May 16, 2012, 4:17:55 AM5/16/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 07:31:15 +0100, Andy Wainwright
<andrewricha...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>you won't be able to get home the same day.
<FacePalm> .....
<andrewricha...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>you won't be able to get home the same day.
--
?¡aah, los gringos otra vez!?
sutartsorric
May 16, 2012, 4:20:53 AM5/16/12
to
On May 16, 9:12 am, Andy Wainwright
If you actually look at the traffic on the busiest of our motorways,
you might notice that a large percentage of it (weekends and bank
holidays excepted) comprises commercial vehicles of many and various
sizes, from large articulated lorries to company vans. It is less easy
to spot the company car drivers, but I suspect they make up a
significant proportion as well.
These are not driven by people who would find free public transport to
be of much use to their daily lives.
you might notice that a large percentage of it (weekends and bank
holidays excepted) comprises commercial vehicles of many and various
sizes, from large articulated lorries to company vans. It is less easy
to spot the company car drivers, but I suspect they make up a
significant proportion as well.
These are not driven by people who would find free public transport to
be of much use to their daily lives.
Nightjar
May 16, 2012, 4:33:22 AM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/2012 09:12, Andy Wainwright wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 07:31, Andy Wainwright wrote:
>> ...
>>> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>>> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>>> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>>> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>>>
>>
>> Buses are free, for me. That still doesn't mean I use them, except,
>> sometimes, to get into a town from the outskirts, where I can park my
>> car for free.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>>
>
> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
I live in a relatively rural area, but I don't know any service bus that
> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 07:31, Andy Wainwright wrote:
>> ...
>>> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>>> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>>> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>>> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>>>
>>
>> Buses are free, for me. That still doesn't mean I use them, except,
>> sometimes, to get into a town from the outskirts, where I can park my
>> car for free.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>>
>
> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
I would need to wait more than an hour for. On the route I use when I
park out of town, the buses on one service run every ten minutes, with
two alternative buses that would get me to the same destination by
different routes each passing once every half hour, making five buses
every hour. I still don't use the bus outside the tourist season, when
the town car parks tend to get full.
I could even take one of the buses, once every half hour, from a stop
that is a couple of hundred yards from my house. However, that would add
about an hour to the journey time.
Colin Bignell
Mel Rowing
May 16, 2012, 4:34:22 AM5/16/12
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Nighjar I only use my "free" bus pass when I use the Park n' Ride
because parking in York, a tourist centre, is very expensive. In fact
in recent times a 60p charge has been introduced. Because I use my car
I don't have to bother about waht time I go or come back. I know the
area sufficiently well to know the quiet times and if I do find myself
in heavy traffic I turn right on the A64 if I'm on my way to York,
left if I'm on the way back and go cross country. No problem at all.
You are being very generous with our axes. Where are you going to get
the money from for all these free buses for everybody? Where is this
free fuel and insurance to come from?
Our free/subsidised bus passes come from taxes but some people of our
age are past driving and so need them to get about. One day we shall
possibly need them too.
In the meantime we hardly use them.
BartC
May 16, 2012, 4:36:11 AM5/16/12
to
"Andy Wainwright" <andrewricha...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jovhk0$i3j$1...@dont-email.me...
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that you
> won't be able to get home the same day.
It's already free, if you're prepared to walk.
--
Bartc
news:jovhk0$i3j$1...@dont-email.me...
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that you
> won't be able to get home the same day.
--
Bartc
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Andy Wainwright
May 16, 2012, 5:09:29 AM5/16/12
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vehicles on the bloody roads, on average about two to four times as old
as the typical goods vehicle or private car. I went on a coach holiday a
few years ago and found out how good bus travel can really be- air
conditioning, good suspension and ride etc. By contrast, I come off the
local bus service wanting to puke.
Andy Wainwright
May 16, 2012, 5:18:52 AM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/2012 09:52, Feral Underclass wrote:
> Buses used to be subsidised in a lot of parts of the country, it was
> paid for with a few pence added onto everyone's council tax (or
> whatever it was called at the time). But that was one of the things
> Thatcher got rid of so that her millionaire friends could benefit. Bus
> fares here went from 5p per journey to something like £1+ per 5 miles.
> Significantly more than anyone was paying in extra council tax even if
> they only made one journey per week. But the millionaires got a few
> extra pence per week, and lots more cars got sold, so that made it
> okay. As usual she didn't think about the long term consequences.
I'm not that into old Labour style socialism these days, but Sheffield ,
where I used to live had an excellent public transport system that
Thatcher and co. ruined out of pure spite.
To me public and private sector isn't all that relevant- it is what
works that counts. Inter-city coach and rail services can run
commercially at a profit, rural and commuter services a lot less so.
Where I live there's two bus operators running into town, and even
though the bus has the same effing number they will not accept each
others return tickets. Privatisation is one thing, just selling a
business to whatever retard shares the same old school tie and funny
handshake as the government minister is quite another.
> paid for with a few pence added onto everyone's council tax (or
> whatever it was called at the time). But that was one of the things
> Thatcher got rid of so that her millionaire friends could benefit. Bus
> fares here went from 5p per journey to something like £1+ per 5 miles.
> Significantly more than anyone was paying in extra council tax even if
> they only made one journey per week. But the millionaires got a few
> extra pence per week, and lots more cars got sold, so that made it
> okay. As usual she didn't think about the long term consequences.
I'm not that into old Labour style socialism these days, but Sheffield ,
where I used to live had an excellent public transport system that
Thatcher and co. ruined out of pure spite.
To me public and private sector isn't all that relevant- it is what
works that counts. Inter-city coach and rail services can run
commercially at a profit, rural and commuter services a lot less so.
Where I live there's two bus operators running into town, and even
though the bus has the same effing number they will not accept each
others return tickets. Privatisation is one thing, just selling a
business to whatever retard shares the same old school tie and funny
handshake as the government minister is quite another.
Periander
May 16, 2012, 5:29:15 AM5/16/12
to
On 16-May-2012, Feral Underclass <ne...@here.ever> wrote:
> Buses used to be subsidised in a lot of parts of the country, it was
> paid for with a few pence added onto everyone's council tax (or
> whatever it was called at the time).
you get the privilege of paying for the workshy and other parasites.
--
All the best,
Periander
Richard McKenzie
May 16, 2012, 5:40:06 AM5/16/12
to
that some buses are not in service and are returning to the bus
station /depot which so happens to by my destination. Why can they be
a limited stop to the bus station!
Andy Wainwright
May 16, 2012, 5:44:01 AM5/16/12
to
Mrcheerful
May 16, 2012, 5:41:58 AM5/16/12
to
least three hours each way (if you get the connections right) and needs
about a half mile of walking on top. Yet 9 times out of ten they get a taxi
which costs 50 pounds each way and takes them exactly door to door at times
convenient to them and the journey is less than one hour. There is
something badly wrong with public transport which cannot be fixed by making
it free.
White Spirit
May 16, 2012, 6:13:40 AM5/16/12
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> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
> rail is that of providing a reliable service.
For me it's having to endure sharing space with inconsiderate people,
> rail is that of providing a reliable service.
unfit parents and those who have never heard of deodorant.
White Spirit
May 16, 2012, 6:14:44 AM5/16/12
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> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
That's easy for you to say - you're not one of the mugs who would be
forced to pay for all those 'free' handouts.
abelard
May 16, 2012, 6:47:52 AM5/16/12
to
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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abelard
May 16, 2012, 6:52:32 AM5/16/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 01:34:22 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
<mel.r...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On May 16, 9:12 am, Andy Wainwright
><andrewrichardwainwri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
>
>> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
>> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
>> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
>> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
>>
>> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
>> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
>
>The reason why people use cars is that they a dmaned convenient. Lke
>Nighjar I only use my "free" bus pass when I use the Park n' Ride
>because parking in York, a tourist centre, is very expensive. In fact
>in recent times a 60p charge has been introduced. Because I use my car
>I don't have to bother about waht time I go or come back. I know the
>area sufficiently well to know the quiet times and if I do find myself
>in heavy traffic I turn right on the A64 if I'm on my way to York,
>left if I'm on the way back and go cross country. No problem at all.
>
>You are being very generous with our axes.
is this another of your adverts for a publicly sponsored killer?
<mel.r...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On May 16, 9:12 am, Andy Wainwright
><andrewrichardwainwri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
>
>> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
>> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
>> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
>> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
>>
>> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
>> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
>
>The reason why people use cars is that they a dmaned convenient. Lke
>Nighjar I only use my "free" bus pass when I use the Park n' Ride
>because parking in York, a tourist centre, is very expensive. In fact
>in recent times a 60p charge has been introduced. Because I use my car
>I don't have to bother about waht time I go or come back. I know the
>area sufficiently well to know the quiet times and if I do find myself
>in heavy traffic I turn right on the A64 if I'm on my way to York,
>left if I'm on the way back and go cross country. No problem at all.
>
>You are being very generous with our axes.
> Where are you going to get
>the money from for all these free buses for everybody? Where is this
>free fuel and insurance to come from?
>
>Our free/subsidised bus passes come from taxes but some people of our
>age are past driving and so need them to get about. One day we shall
>possibly need them too.
>
>In the meantime we hardly use them.
Nightjar
May 16, 2012, 7:26:39 AM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/2012 10:09, Andy Wainwright wrote:
...
couple of years ago.
Colin Bignell
...
> Something that I find weird is that busses seem to be the oldest
> vehicles on the bloody roads, on average about two to four times as old
> as the typical goods vehicle or private car. I went on a coach holiday a
> few years ago and found out how good bus travel can really be- air
> conditioning, good suspension and ride etc. By contrast, I come off the
> local bus service wanting to puke.
>
The main bus company serving my area replaced their entire fleet a
> vehicles on the bloody roads, on average about two to four times as old
> as the typical goods vehicle or private car. I went on a coach holiday a
> few years ago and found out how good bus travel can really be- air
> conditioning, good suspension and ride etc. By contrast, I come off the
> local bus service wanting to puke.
>
couple of years ago.
Colin Bignell
Mel Rowing
May 16, 2012, 7:19:56 AM5/16/12
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On May 16, 10:41 am, "Mrcheerful" <g.odonnel...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The amount they save by not having to keep a vehicle on the road will
buy a fair number of taxi miles. Over the years they have probably
become accustomed to the convenience of their own car.You can do
whatever you want with public transport but it will never match
personal transport for eithere comfort or experience.
We live out in the sticks where during the summer there is a small
coach provided at public expense that comes into the village every two
hours and departs out in the opposite direction to which it came in. I
is used essentially by hikers and not very many of those. We have
never used it, not even once. In fact looking it up on here (just) it
would appear that now it runs only on Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays
(it used to operate every day in summer) However, apparenlty it does
go all the way to Scarborough (it didn't used to) In winter here is
nothing save the school bus.
A car is therefore really essntial to anyone living here. We have
discussed what will happen when the day comes (and please God may it
be far off) when neither of us can drive any longer. We don't want to
move. We love the place. Hence the provisional solution, the
contingency plan is to have an account with a taxi firm so that we can
ring every time we need transport to another village 3 miles away that
is served with buses to York, Scarborough, Hull, Leeds and all places
in between. Bearing in mind that we won't be buying fuel, paying
garage bills, motor tax and insurance we should not be out of pocket
at all even if from time to time we do fork out for the odd more
distant journey.
> Mel Rowing wrote:
> I know a couple that both have free bus passes, to visit me by bus takes at
> least three hours each way (if you get the connections right) and needs
> about a half mile of walking on top. Yet 9 times out of ten they get a taxi
> which costs 50 pounds each way and takes them exactly door to door at times
> convenient to them and the journey is less than one hour. There is
> something badly wrong with public transport which cannot be fixed by making
> it free.
Look at it from their perspective.
> I know a couple that both have free bus passes, to visit me by bus takes at
> least three hours each way (if you get the connections right) and needs
> about a half mile of walking on top. Yet 9 times out of ten they get a taxi
> which costs 50 pounds each way and takes them exactly door to door at times
> convenient to them and the journey is less than one hour. There is
> something badly wrong with public transport which cannot be fixed by making
> it free.
The amount they save by not having to keep a vehicle on the road will
buy a fair number of taxi miles. Over the years they have probably
become accustomed to the convenience of their own car.You can do
whatever you want with public transport but it will never match
personal transport for eithere comfort or experience.
We live out in the sticks where during the summer there is a small
coach provided at public expense that comes into the village every two
hours and departs out in the opposite direction to which it came in. I
is used essentially by hikers and not very many of those. We have
never used it, not even once. In fact looking it up on here (just) it
would appear that now it runs only on Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays
(it used to operate every day in summer) However, apparenlty it does
go all the way to Scarborough (it didn't used to) In winter here is
nothing save the school bus.
A car is therefore really essntial to anyone living here. We have
discussed what will happen when the day comes (and please God may it
be far off) when neither of us can drive any longer. We don't want to
move. We love the place. Hence the provisional solution, the
contingency plan is to have an account with a taxi firm so that we can
ring every time we need transport to another village 3 miles away that
is served with buses to York, Scarborough, Hull, Leeds and all places
in between. Bearing in mind that we won't be buying fuel, paying
garage bills, motor tax and insurance we should not be out of pocket
at all even if from time to time we do fork out for the odd more
distant journey.
Mentalguy2k8
May 16, 2012, 7:41:43 AM5/16/12
to
"Mel Rowing" <mel.r...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:b9a0fcc7-d480-49f8...@p1g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
On May 16, 9:12 am, Andy Wainwright
<andrewrichardwainwri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
>
> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
>The reason why people use cars is that they a dmaned convenient. Lke
>Nighjar I only use my "free" bus pass when I use the Park n' Ride
>because parking in York, a tourist centre, is very expensive. In fact
>in recent times a 60p charge has been introduced. Because I use my car
>I don't have to bother about waht time I go or come back. I know the
>area sufficiently well to know the quiet times and if I do find myself
>in heavy traffic I turn right on the A64 if I'm on my way to York,
>left if I'm on the way back and go cross country. No problem at all.
>You are being very generous with our axes. Where are you going to get
>the money from for all these free buses for everybody? Where is this
>free fuel and insurance to come from?
Non tax payers are like the Government Opposition... living in a dream world
<andrewrichardwainwri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
>
> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
>The reason why people use cars is that they a dmaned convenient. Lke
>Nighjar I only use my "free" bus pass when I use the Park n' Ride
>because parking in York, a tourist centre, is very expensive. In fact
>in recent times a 60p charge has been introduced. Because I use my car
>I don't have to bother about waht time I go or come back. I know the
>area sufficiently well to know the quiet times and if I do find myself
>in heavy traffic I turn right on the A64 if I'm on my way to York,
>left if I'm on the way back and go cross country. No problem at all.
>You are being very generous with our axes. Where are you going to get
>the money from for all these free buses for everybody? Where is this
>free fuel and insurance to come from?
where they think that 99% of Government income is sitting in an account
gathering interest because there's nothing to spend it on. If I was
Chancellor, nobody would pay any tax or VAT and our public services would be
the best in the world!
Turn it around - why should we subsidise bus journeys when people can pay
for them? What's that? If you pay for your bus journey you've then got less
money to spend on your other outgoings? Hmmm.... consider it a little lesson
in economics. Finite amount coming in = finite amount going out, if you
spend more on one outgoing when you have a fixed income, you have to spend
less on another. Unless you're Labour and just spend what you haven't got.
Fredxx
May 16, 2012, 7:44:24 AM5/16/12
to
It annoys me that those that go on about increased public transport are
generally single and live in built up areas. Its unlikely for subsidy
and provision for public transport will ever be uniform over the UK.
Mentalguy2k8
May 16, 2012, 7:45:22 AM5/16/12
to
news:d2f83cab-30d5-4ef9...@8g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
given by the person who *does* pay, to someone who doesn't.
On May 16, 7:31 am, Andy Wainwright
<andrewrichardwainwri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>There is no such thing as free transport unless you hitch hike.
And even hitch hiking is only free for the recipient. It's just a favour
<andrewrichardwainwri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>There is no such thing as free transport unless you hitch hike.
given by the person who *does* pay, to someone who doesn't.
BartC
May 16, 2012, 8:05:58 AM5/16/12
to
"abelard" <abel...@abelard.org> wrote in message
news:ae17r7tdub5gjb06d...@4ax.com...
news:ae17r7tdub5gjb06d...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 09:36:11 +0100, "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>>"Andy Wainwright" <andrewricha...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:jovhk0$i3j$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>>> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>>> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>>> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>>> you
>>> won't be able to get home the same day.
>>
>>It's already free, if you're prepared to walk.
>
> who will make your shoes?
Shoes are optional. But most people already have some.
>
>>"Andy Wainwright" <andrewricha...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:jovhk0$i3j$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>>> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>>> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>>> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>>> you
>>> won't be able to get home the same day.
>>
>>It's already free, if you're prepared to walk.
>
> who will make your shoes?
Fredxx
May 16, 2012, 8:17:12 AM5/16/12
to
green, apart from air travel.
I would take the view that all transport is exceptionally un-green,
especially with empty buses trundling around.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Mrcheerful
May 16, 2012, 8:39:13 AM5/16/12
to
Mel Rowing wrote:
> On May 16, 10:41 am, "Mrcheerful" <g.odonnel...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Mel Rowing wrote:
>
>> I know a couple that both have free bus passes, to visit me by bus
>> takes at least three hours each way (if you get the connections
>> right) and needs about a half mile of walking on top. Yet 9 times
>> out of ten they get a taxi which costs 50 pounds each way and takes
>> them exactly door to door at times convenient to them and the
>> journey is less than one hour. There is something badly wrong with
>> public transport which cannot be fixed by making it free.
>
> Look at it from their perspective.
>
> The amount they save by not having to keep a vehicle on the road will
> buy a fair number of taxi miles. Over the years they have probably
> become accustomed to the convenience of their own car.You can do
> whatever you want with public transport but it will never match
> personal transport for eithere comfort or experience.
neither have ever had use of a car , not even a car in the household. they
> On May 16, 10:41 am, "Mrcheerful" <g.odonnel...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Mel Rowing wrote:
>
>> I know a couple that both have free bus passes, to visit me by bus
>> takes at least three hours each way (if you get the connections
>> right) and needs about a half mile of walking on top. Yet 9 times
>> out of ten they get a taxi which costs 50 pounds each way and takes
>> them exactly door to door at times convenient to them and the
>> journey is less than one hour. There is something badly wrong with
>> public transport which cannot be fixed by making it free.
>
> Look at it from their perspective.
>
> The amount they save by not having to keep a vehicle on the road will
> buy a fair number of taxi miles. Over the years they have probably
> become accustomed to the convenience of their own car.You can do
> whatever you want with public transport but it will never match
> personal transport for eithere comfort or experience.
live in a well served area for buses (no trains), but the logistics of
getting bus journeys over the routes they need is ridiculous.
Mungo Studebaker
May 16, 2012, 9:06:44 AM5/16/12
to
"Andy Wainwright" <andrewricha...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jovhk0$i3j$1...@dont-email.me...
> Where I live the problem isn't too many people but too many cars, a
> situation repeated throughout the country. The weird thing is that despite
> this situation, the price in real terms of public transport and rail
> freight has risen considerably more than road.
>
> When people are stuck in traffic, it's wasted time, which could be
> anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
> not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
> caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles
> too.
>
> situation repeated throughout the country. The weird thing is that despite
> this situation, the price in real terms of public transport and rail
> freight has risen considerably more than road.
>
> When people are stuck in traffic, it's wasted time, which could be
> anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
> not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
> caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles
> too.
>
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that you
> won't be able to get home the same day.
Wouldn't you end up with a kind of feedback loop?
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that you
> won't be able to get home the same day.
Increase cost of fuel
Fewer people can afford to drive cars
Greater demand on public transport
Public transport costs rise
Increase cost of fuel again to compensate
etc...
What would happen to food prices?
Mentalguy2k8
May 16, 2012, 10:46:33 AM5/16/12
to
"Feral Underclass" <ne...@here.ever> wrote in message
news:g477r7ptd5drpur7h...@4ax.com...
> lending yourself money at 3,000% interest you would know that even
> dolescum pay council tax.
No they don't!
abelard
May 16, 2012, 11:27:09 AM5/16/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 13:17:12 +0100, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote:
>I would take the view that all transport is exceptionally un-green,
>especially with empty buses trundling around.
fyi
>I would take the view that all transport is exceptionally un-green,
>especially with empty buses trundling around.
*approx* 1/3 of filthy fossil fuel goes on each of three sectors
industry, domestic heating et al, and transport
answer get a horse and sleep in a stable
abelard
May 16, 2012, 11:41:10 AM5/16/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 14:06:44 +0100, "Mungo Studebaker" <e...@off.com>
wrote:
buy more buses...more road space available....
much fuel cost is acceleration...clearer roads means less
speed variation...lower mass demand for fuel
>What would happen to food prices?
in general, transport is a low percentage of food prices
though that may vary on strawberries from chile by 'plane
wrote:
much fuel cost is acceleration...clearer roads means less
speed variation...lower mass demand for fuel
>What would happen to food prices?
though that may vary on strawberries from chile by 'plane
allantracy
May 16, 2012, 11:43:57 AM5/16/12
to
>
> Just like only corporations who pay their proper UK taxes should be
> allowed to sell here?
What about their non-UK corporate taxes, where should they pay those?
The UK can hardly lay claim to taxes on profits earned here and those
earned abroad can it – oh but it does.
Now you see why UK corporation tax is a load of bollocks and has to be
avoided.
Actually, the tax is dysfunctional in most countries, not fit for
purpose in a global economy, but hey that doesn’t stop deluded
socialists does it?
That was one issue that was certainly avoided by Labour.
P.S. How would you stop Amazon.
> Just like only corporations who pay their proper UK taxes should be
> allowed to sell here?
What about their non-UK corporate taxes, where should they pay those?
The UK can hardly lay claim to taxes on profits earned here and those
earned abroad can it – oh but it does.
Now you see why UK corporation tax is a load of bollocks and has to be
avoided.
Actually, the tax is dysfunctional in most countries, not fit for
purpose in a global economy, but hey that doesn’t stop deluded
socialists does it?
That was one issue that was certainly avoided by Labour.
P.S. How would you stop Amazon.
Bert
May 16, 2012, 11:46:20 AM5/16/12
to
In news:jovhk0$i3j$1...@dont-email.me Andy Wainwright
Government-operated transport systems rarely, if ever, make a profit or
break even.
--
be...@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN
<andrewricha...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> The weird thing is that despite this situation, the price in real
> terms of public transport and rail freight has risen considerably more
> than road.
>
Why is it "weird?"
> The weird thing is that despite this situation, the price in real
> terms of public transport and rail freight has risen considerably more
> than road.
>
Government-operated transport systems rarely, if ever, make a profit or
break even.
--
be...@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN
Bert
May 16, 2012, 11:48:10 AM5/16/12
to
In news:mbWdnSNV9eT4Oy7S...@eclipse.net.uk "Mungo
Why should he care? He's getting a free ride on the bus.
Why should he care? He's getting a free ride on the bus.
Nightjar
May 16, 2012, 12:30:51 PM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/2012 09:52, Feral Underclass wrote:
...
them to, HMRC would be very pleased to hear from you.
Colin Bignell
...
> Just like only corporations who pay their proper UK taxes should be
> allowed to sell here?
If you have evidence of any that are not paying what the law requires
> allowed to sell here?
them to, HMRC would be very pleased to hear from you.
Colin Bignell
®i©ardo
May 16, 2012, 12:53:43 PM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/2012 09:12, Andy Wainwright wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 07:31, Andy Wainwright wrote:
>> ...
>> ...
>>> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>>> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>>> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>>> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>>>
>>
>>> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>>> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>>> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>>>
>>
>> Buses are free, for me. That still doesn't mean I use them, except,
>> sometimes, to get into a town from the outskirts, where I can park my
>> car for free.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>>
>
>> sometimes, to get into a town from the outskirts, where I can park my
>> car for free.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>>
>
> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
>
> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
Well, if you're advocating that, why not include motorcycles and cars as
> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
>
> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
well?
Public transport is there for, in the main, those without alternative
means of travel, so let's keep it that way instead of clogging up trains
with road vehicles of any sort.
--
Moving things in still pictures
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Osric
May 16, 2012, 1:26:02 PM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/12 07:31, Andy Wainwright wrote:
> Where I live the problem isn't too many people but too many cars, a
> situation repeated throughout the country. The weird thing is that
> Where I live the problem isn't too many people but too many cars, a
> despite this situation, the price in real terms of public transport and
> rail freight has risen considerably more than road.
>
> rail freight has risen considerably more than road.
>
> When people are stuck in traffic, it's wasted time, which could be
> anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
> not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
> caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles too.
>
> anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
> not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
> caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles too.
>
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>
The usual urban twaddle that assumes the entire country has access to
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>
public transport. Where I live the nearest bus that runs once a week is
5 miles away. I receive bugger all council services as it is, never seen
a police car in the village, no school, no street lighting, no shop, no
pub no fuck all. I already pay a premium to access the most basic
services, I have to drag my bin 100 yards to the nearest metalled road.
Are you suggesting I subsidise you further?
If I want to go to the pub I have to run the gauntlet of grumpy
badgers and stagger for miles through the woods in pitch darkness or
cough up £20 for a taxi. I suggest you walk you lazy bastard instead of
pilfering from my wallet for a free ride
--
Osric
THE BORDERS OF MY COUNTRY
RUN AROUND THE SOLES OF MY FEET
sutartsorric
May 16, 2012, 1:36:36 PM5/16/12
to
Nightjar
May 16, 2012, 1:44:59 PM5/16/12
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On 16/05/2012 18:04, Feral Underclass wrote:
> You know full well the millionaires in the government set those
> loopholes up specifically so that they could benefit from them.
Do you mean the tax incentives that are designed to bring international
companies into Britain, thereby actually resulting in more tax income
for the country than there would be without those tax incentives?
Colin Bignell
> loopholes up specifically so that they could benefit from them.
Do you mean the tax incentives that are designed to bring international
companies into Britain, thereby actually resulting in more tax income
for the country than there would be without those tax incentives?
Colin Bignell
Osric
May 16, 2012, 1:52:06 PM5/16/12
to
badger in Ilford?
CheeseySock
May 16, 2012, 2:05:38 PM5/16/12
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On Wed, 16 May 2012 07:31:15 +0100, Andy Wainwright wrote:
> Where I live the problem isn't too many people but too many cars, a
> situation repeated throughout the country. The weird thing is that
> despite this situation, the price in real terms of public transport and
> rail freight has risen considerably more than road.
>
> When people are stuck in traffic, it's wasted time, which could be
> anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
> not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
> caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles
> too.
>
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
back to the future.... the bicycle. Already almost free to use once you
> Where I live the problem isn't too many people but too many cars, a
> situation repeated throughout the country. The weird thing is that
> despite this situation, the price in real terms of public transport and
> rail freight has risen considerably more than road.
>
> When people are stuck in traffic, it's wasted time, which could be
> anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
> not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
> caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles
> too.
>
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
have bought one. Electric bike even better and quicker.
I agree with a bit of subsidisation of buses for oap's, disabled and
unemployed, also some routes that are not commercially viable but where a
link is needed for some. (smaller buses probably in that case perhaps?)
perhaps another factor, you did not mention for some reason, of the
increase in vehicles blocking up the roads is the increase in immigrants
and thus the 20% rise in population in last few decades. (anecdotally
I'd say there would be at least a 30% decrease in road traffic here in
this city if no immigrants had arrived, but STM the councillors are the
typical 'economic growth' mob without considering the infrastructure...
but then STM the councillors are also another quite unaccountable
interchangeable bunch that also feed off the negative.)
DVH
May 16, 2012, 2:12:16 PM5/16/12
to
"Osric" <os...@nospambtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3ICdnSskBdO2fi7S...@bt.com...
> I have to run the gauntlet of grumpy badgers and stagger for miles
> through the woods in pitch darkness
®i©ardo
May 16, 2012, 2:29:38 PM5/16/12
to
®i©ardo
May 16, 2012, 2:33:00 PM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/2012 13:34, Feral Underclass wrote:
> since conning the libs into being their fallguys? The only difference
> is they are spending it all on extra dole money for the people whose
> jobs they have destroyed instead of something useful.
Don't you mean the number of non-jobs they have destroyed. They still
have to pay for them, of course, via the dole, but not the pensions, the
perks, the expense accounts, the accommodation and so on.
> "Mentalguy2k8"<Mental...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> "Mel Rowing"<mel.r...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>> news:b9a0fcc7-d480-49f8...@p1g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 16, 9:12 am, Andy Wainwright
>
>
>>
>> "Mel Rowing"<mel.r...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>> news:b9a0fcc7-d480-49f8...@p1g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 16, 9:12 am, Andy Wainwright
>> <andrewrichardwainwri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
>>
>>> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
>>> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
>>> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
>>> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
>>>
>>> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
>>> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
>>
>>> On 16/05/2012 09:06, Nightjar wrote:
>>
>>> The biggest issue on bus transport for me, and to a lesser extent with
>>> rail is that of providing a reliable service. For instance, let's say I
>>> take a bus to the city, then have to wait two hours for a connection
>>> back. I think this is why many people chose the car.
>>>
>>> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
>>> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
>>
>>> The reason why people use cars is that they a dmaned convenient. Lke
>>> Nighjar I only use my "free" bus pass when I use the Park n' Ride
>>> because parking in York, a tourist centre, is very expensive. In fact
>>> in recent times a 60p charge has been introduced. Because I use my car
>>> I don't have to bother about waht time I go or come back. I know the
>>> area sufficiently well to know the quiet times and if I do find myself
>>> in heavy traffic I turn right on the A64 if I'm on my way to York,
>>> left if I'm on the way back and go cross country. No problem at all.
>>
>>> You are being very generous with our axes. Where are you going to get
>>> the money from for all these free buses for everybody? Where is this
>>> free fuel and insurance to come from?
>>
>> Non tax payers are like the Government Opposition... living in a dream world
>> where they think that 99% of Government income is sitting in an account
>> gathering interest because there's nothing to spend it on. If I was
>> Chancellor, nobody would pay any tax or VAT and our public services would be
>> the best in the world!
>>
>> Turn it around - why should we subsidise bus journeys when people can pay
>> for them? What's that? If you pay for your bus journey you've then got less
>> money to spend on your other outgoings? Hmmm.... consider it a little lesson
>> in economics. Finite amount coming in = finite amount going out, if you
>> spend more on one outgoing when you have a fixed income, you have to spend
>> less on another. Unless you're Labour and just spend what you haven't got.
>
> Have you seen how much the toff party have increased their lending
>>> Nighjar I only use my "free" bus pass when I use the Park n' Ride
>>> because parking in York, a tourist centre, is very expensive. In fact
>>> in recent times a 60p charge has been introduced. Because I use my car
>>> I don't have to bother about waht time I go or come back. I know the
>>> area sufficiently well to know the quiet times and if I do find myself
>>> in heavy traffic I turn right on the A64 if I'm on my way to York,
>>> left if I'm on the way back and go cross country. No problem at all.
>>
>>> You are being very generous with our axes. Where are you going to get
>>> the money from for all these free buses for everybody? Where is this
>>> free fuel and insurance to come from?
>>
>> Non tax payers are like the Government Opposition... living in a dream world
>> where they think that 99% of Government income is sitting in an account
>> gathering interest because there's nothing to spend it on. If I was
>> Chancellor, nobody would pay any tax or VAT and our public services would be
>> the best in the world!
>>
>> Turn it around - why should we subsidise bus journeys when people can pay
>> for them? What's that? If you pay for your bus journey you've then got less
>> money to spend on your other outgoings? Hmmm.... consider it a little lesson
>> in economics. Finite amount coming in = finite amount going out, if you
>> spend more on one outgoing when you have a fixed income, you have to spend
>> less on another. Unless you're Labour and just spend what you haven't got.
>
> since conning the libs into being their fallguys? The only difference
> is they are spending it all on extra dole money for the people whose
> jobs they have destroyed instead of something useful.
Don't you mean the number of non-jobs they have destroyed. They still
have to pay for them, of course, via the dole, but not the pensions, the
perks, the expense accounts, the accommodation and so on.
®i©ardo
May 16, 2012, 2:37:05 PM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/2012 09:52, Feral Underclass wrote:
> Andy Wainwright<andrewricha...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> Where I live the problem isn't too many people but too many cars, a
>> situation repeated throughout the country. The weird thing is that
>> despite this situation, the price in real terms of public transport and
>> rail freight has risen considerably more than road.
>>
>> When people are stuck in traffic, it's wasted time, which could be
>> anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
>> not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
>> caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles too.
>>
>> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>
>
>
>> Where I live the problem isn't too many people but too many cars, a
>> situation repeated throughout the country. The weird thing is that
>> despite this situation, the price in real terms of public transport and
>> rail freight has risen considerably more than road.
>>
>> When people are stuck in traffic, it's wasted time, which could be
>> anything up to several hundred pound an hour for a skilled professional,
>> not to mention the polution. Additionally, wear and tear on the roads
>> caused by heavy traffic is expensive to repair and can damage vehicles too.
>>
>> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>> you won't be able to get home the same day.
>
> Buses used to be subsidised in a lot of parts of the country, it was
> paid for with a few pence added onto everyone's council tax (or
> whatever it was called at the time). But that was one of the things
> paid for with a few pence added onto everyone's council tax (or
> Thatcher got rid of so that her millionaire friends could benefit. Bus
> fares here went from 5p per journey to something like £1+ per 5 miles.
> Significantly more than anyone was paying in extra council tax even if
> they only made one journey per week. But the millionaires got a few
> extra pence per week, and lots more cars got sold, so that made it
> okay. As usual she didn't think about the long term consequences.
But she saved the country from the trade unions, so three cheers for
that. Unfortunately that actually made the Labour Party electable - and
what a total f*ck-up that turned out to be!
Cynic
May 16, 2012, 2:48:06 PM5/16/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 07:31:15 +0100, Andy Wainwright
<andrewricha...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>you won't be able to get home the same day.
*If* such a service could be supplied it would be great.
>So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
>potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
>service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
>you won't be able to get home the same day.
Unfortunately I really cannot see a bus company running a bus every 30
minutes, 24 hours a day, to some small village on the offchance that
there might be someone wanting to use it once in a blue Moon.
I also do not see it as being at all fair that you want to pay for
such a service by taking money from the very people who don't use it
(motorists).
--
Cynic
Osric
May 16, 2012, 2:52:16 PM5/16/12
to
though, they seem to know if your pissed and sometimes contest right of
way which is no joke if you're full of Tanglefoot. They may look it but
badgers are not cute, I'd rather argue with a pit-bill.
Cynic
May 16, 2012, 2:55:25 PM5/16/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 09:33:22 +0100, Nightjar
<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
>I live in a relatively rural area, but I don't know any service bus that
>I would need to wait more than an hour for.
In some places at some times for specific routes that is true.
It is however sadly not true for the vast majority of journies I need
to make. I would *much* prefer using public transport if it took me
where I needed to go, when I needed to go there without a huge
increase in journey time.
--
Cynic
<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
>I live in a relatively rural area, but I don't know any service bus that
>I would need to wait more than an hour for.
In some places at some times for specific routes that is true.
It is however sadly not true for the vast majority of journies I need
to make. I would *much* prefer using public transport if it took me
where I needed to go, when I needed to go there without a huge
increase in journey time.
--
Cynic
®i©ardo
May 16, 2012, 3:01:24 PM5/16/12
to
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14785501
®i©ardo
May 16, 2012, 3:02:56 PM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/2012 19:52, Osric wrote:
> On 16/05/12 19:12, DVH wrote:
>> "Osric"<os...@nospambtinternet.com> wrote in message
>> news:3ICdnSskBdO2fi7S...@bt.com...
>>
>>> I have to run the gauntlet of grumpy badgers and stagger for miles
>>> through the woods in pitch darkness
>>
>> Sounds nice.
>>
>
> Its perfect, I'm the richest man in the world. Badgers are bastards
> though, they seem to know if your pissed and sometimes contest right of
> way which is no joke if you're full of Tanglefoot. They may look it but
> badgers are not cute, I'd rather argue with a pit-bill.
>
>
>
I have the greatest sympathy for anyone who has to drink Tanglefoot.
> On 16/05/12 19:12, DVH wrote:
>> "Osric"<os...@nospambtinternet.com> wrote in message
>> news:3ICdnSskBdO2fi7S...@bt.com...
>>
>>> I have to run the gauntlet of grumpy badgers and stagger for miles
>>> through the woods in pitch darkness
>>
>> Sounds nice.
>>
>
> Its perfect, I'm the richest man in the world. Badgers are bastards
> though, they seem to know if your pissed and sometimes contest right of
> way which is no joke if you're full of Tanglefoot. They may look it but
> badgers are not cute, I'd rather argue with a pit-bill.
>
>
>
DVH
May 16, 2012, 3:06:50 PM5/16/12
to
news:3ICdnSUkBdP_ai7S...@bt.com...
> On 16/05/12 19:12, DVH wrote:
>> "Osric"<os...@nospambtinternet.com> wrote in message
>> news:3ICdnSskBdO2fi7S...@bt.com...
>>
>>> I have to run the gauntlet of grumpy badgers and stagger for miles
>>> through the woods in pitch darkness
>>
>> Sounds nice.
>>
>
> Its perfect, I'm the richest man in the world. Badgers are bastards
> though, they seem to know if your pissed and sometimes contest right of
> way which is no joke if you're full of Tanglefoot. They may look it but
> badgers are not cute, I'd rather argue with a pit-bill.
They do play rough. As Grahame pointed out.
>> "Osric"<os...@nospambtinternet.com> wrote in message
>> news:3ICdnSskBdO2fi7S...@bt.com...
>>
>>> I have to run the gauntlet of grumpy badgers and stagger for miles
>>> through the woods in pitch darkness
>>
>> Sounds nice.
>>
>
> Its perfect, I'm the richest man in the world. Badgers are bastards
> though, they seem to know if your pissed and sometimes contest right of
> way which is no joke if you're full of Tanglefoot. They may look it but
> badgers are not cute, I'd rather argue with a pit-bill.
Andy Walker
May 16, 2012, 3:42:22 PM5/16/12
to
On 16/05/12 19:48, Cynic wrote:
> *If* such a service could be supplied it would be great.
> Unfortunately I really cannot see a bus company running a bus every 30
> minutes, 24 hours a day, to some small village on the offchance that
> there might be someone wanting to use it once in a blue Moon.
It's worse than that -- you'd really want it them to go in
> *If* such a service could be supplied it would be great.
> Unfortunately I really cannot see a bus company running a bus every 30
> minutes, 24 hours a day, to some small village on the offchance that
> there might be someone wanting to use it once in a blue Moon.
each direction on the off chance that there might be someone wanting
to go to [eg] Nottingham, someone to Derby, someone to Leicester,
someone to Lincoln, .... It would also defeat the object of the
exercise.
It would clearly be more efficient if instead of the bus
drivers driving around with empty buses, we encouraged/required
would-be travellers to ring the company a few minutes in advance
when they wanted the service, then they could send a small bus to
pick you up and take you where you wanted.
Of course, this taxi^H^H^H^Hsmall bus is still somewhat
inefficient, as it has passengers only for part of the time. It
would be even more efficient if those who were capable could keep
the ta^H^Hbuses at their own homes and drive themselves and their
families around when necessary.
> I also do not see it as being at all fair that you want to pay for
> such a service by taking money from the very people who don't use it
> (motorists).
extra on my petrol in order to avail myself of the free home-based
small bus service just described. I might even be prepared to pay
a modest premium to have the car^H^H^Hsmall bus of my choice at
home in preference to that provided free by the state.
--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.
sutartsorric
May 16, 2012, 3:50:54 PM5/16/12
to
On May 16, 6:52 pm, Osric <os...@nospambtinternet.com> wrote:
> On 16/05/12 18:36, sutartsorric wrote:
>
> > Serves you right for living in Ilford.
>
> Never been to Ilford, and anyway when was the last time anyone saw a
> badger in Ilford?
>
> --
IT WAS A JOKE..........
>
> > Serves you right for living in Ilford.
>
> Never been to Ilford, and anyway when was the last time anyone saw a
> badger in Ilford?
>
> --
®i©ardo
May 16, 2012, 4:14:30 PM5/16/12
to
catch up with you, accompanied by the Storm Troopers of the RSPCA.
They'll badger you all right!
sutartsorric
May 16, 2012, 4:25:38 PM5/16/12
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visiting my garden on a regular basis and have first hand experience
of the damage the buggers do.
Gas the lot of 'em.
Mel Rowing
May 16, 2012, 5:15:00 PM5/16/12
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On May 16, 9:25 pm, sutartsorric <sutartsor...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I dont need any charity people to lecture me on badgers. I have them
> visiting my garden on a regular basis and have first hand experience
> of the damage the buggers do.
>
> Gas the lot of 'em.
Nah I got a couple eating up their peanuts at this moment. Keep 'em
> I dont need any charity people to lecture me on badgers. I have them
> visiting my garden on a regular basis and have first hand experience
> of the damage the buggers do.
>
> Gas the lot of 'em.
fed and they'll leave your lawn alone.
Osric
May 16, 2012, 5:18:46 PM5/16/12
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unless properly kept, as I'm the cellarman and I know what I'm doing, I
always get a good one.
Periander
May 16, 2012, 5:56:19 PM5/16/12
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On 16-May-2012, Feral Underclass <ne...@here.ever> wrote:
> >
> >On 16-May-2012, Feral Underclass <ne...@here.ever> wrote:
> >
> >> Buses used to be subsidised in a lot of parts of the country, it was
> >> paid for with a few pence added onto everyone's council tax (or
> >> whatever it was called at the time).
> >
> >before
> >you get the privilege of paying for the workshy and other parasites.
>
> Maybe if you weren't too busy renting a PO box in Luxembourg and
> lending yourself money at 3,000% interest you would know that even
> dolescum pay council tax.
Nope they don't pay a penny for every penny they get, even those imaginary
ones that are taken by tax has in the first place had to have been raised
from taxing someone who actually works for a living or a privately owned
business. If you were in a workhouse or on a work gang and actually did
somethin to pay for the oxygen you use I may have a little more sympathy for
your views.
--
All the best,
Periander
Owain
May 16, 2012, 6:30:58 PM5/16/12
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On May 16, 8:42 pm, Andy Walker wrote:
> It would clearly be more efficient if instead of the bus
> drivers driving around with empty buses, we encouraged/required
> would-be travellers to ring the company a few minutes in advance
> when they wanted the service, then they could send a small bus to
> pick you up and take you where you wanted.
That's been invented - it's called Demand Responsive Transport or
> It would clearly be more efficient if instead of the bus
> drivers driving around with empty buses, we encouraged/required
> would-be travellers to ring the company a few minutes in advance
> when they wanted the service, then they could send a small bus to
> pick you up and take you where you wanted.
variants.
Owain
Nightjar
May 16, 2012, 7:07:43 PM5/16/12
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distance service bus routes seem to visit every cow shed along the way.
One I know takes over four hours to travel between two end points that
would take me about an hour and a half by car.
Colin Bignell
JNugent
May 17, 2012, 4:15:06 AM5/17/12
to
to waste the other 2.5 hours, each way, and think nothing of it.
Message has been deleted
Greg Hennessy
May 17, 2012, 6:34:41 AM5/17/12
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On Wed, 16 May 2012 01:34:22 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
<mel.r...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
>> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
>
>The reason why people use cars is that they a dmaned convenient. Lke
>Nighjar I only use my "free" bus pass when I use the Park n' Ride
>because parking in York, a tourist centre, is very expensive. In fact
>in recent times a 60p charge has been introduced. Because I use my car
>I don't have to bother about waht time I go or come back. I know the
>area sufficiently well to know the quiet times and if I do find myself
>in heavy traffic I turn right on the A64 if I'm on my way to York,
>left if I'm on the way back and go cross country. No problem at all.
>
>You are being very generous with our axes. Where are you going to get
>the money from for all these free buses for everybody? Where is this
>free fuel and insurance to come from?
>
>Our free/subsidised bus passes come from taxes but some people of our
<mel.r...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> In addition, I'd give free fuel , insurance and tax to all taxi drivers,
>> and make it as easy as possible to take cycles and even mopeds on trains.
>
>The reason why people use cars is that they a dmaned convenient. Lke
>Nighjar I only use my "free" bus pass when I use the Park n' Ride
>because parking in York, a tourist centre, is very expensive. In fact
>in recent times a 60p charge has been introduced. Because I use my car
>I don't have to bother about waht time I go or come back. I know the
>area sufficiently well to know the quiet times and if I do find myself
>in heavy traffic I turn right on the A64 if I'm on my way to York,
>left if I'm on the way back and go cross country. No problem at all.
>
>You are being very generous with our axes. Where are you going to get
>the money from for all these free buses for everybody? Where is this
>free fuel and insurance to come from?
>
>age are past driving and so need them to get about. One day we shall
>possibly need them too.
>
>In the meantime we hardly use them.
Some interesting insight on so called'public'transportation here with a US
Centric bias, but one can see similar thought processes from our lords and
masters elsewhere.
http://ti.org/antiplanner/
--
?¡aah, los gringos otra vez!?
sutartsorric
May 17, 2012, 6:44:31 AM5/17/12
to
they dig underneath where the peanuts were, they will uncover some
more.
And its not just the lawn they dig up. They pull plants out of tubs,
try to tunnel under the fences and one must have fallen in the pond
and split the liner, so all the water drained out.
In winter the garden looks like a bomb site, although it recovers
during the summer when the ground gets too hard to dig.
®i©ardo
May 17, 2012, 7:22:57 AM5/17/12
to
®i©ardo
May 17, 2012, 7:26:47 AM5/17/12
to
On 17/05/2012 10:06, Feral Underclass wrote:
> Only because they were stupid enough to elect an undercover tory as
> their leader.
Well, if that was the case it amply demonstrates what a load of tossers
the rest of the "brothers" were. Never forget that anything he did was
balanced incapability Brown, a true man of the left!
--
Moving things in still pictures
FastStone - Infinitely Flexible Photographic Fixing - For Free!
www.FastStone.org
> their leader.
Well, if that was the case it amply demonstrates what a load of tossers
the rest of the "brothers" were. Never forget that anything he did was
balanced incapability Brown, a true man of the left!
--
Moving things in still pictures
www.FastStone.org
®i©ardo
May 17, 2012, 7:31:40 AM5/17/12
to
things that way.
http://www.savethebadger.com/
As for foxes...
http://www.aswa.org.uk/page/campaigns/urban_foxes/
®i©ardo
May 17, 2012, 7:37:48 AM5/17/12
to
stuff for life - even when I subsequently became a licensee I never once
stocked Hall and Woodhouse beers!
JNugent
May 17, 2012, 7:46:14 AM5/17/12
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PT undervalues the passenger and overvalues the staff who run it and the
politicians who oversee it.
Cynic
May 17, 2012, 8:11:05 AM5/17/12
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On Thu, 17 May 2012 00:07:43 +0100, Nightjar
<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
>> It is however sadly not true for the vast majority of journies I need
>> to make. I would *much* prefer using public transport if it took me
>> where I needed to go, when I needed to go there without a huge
>> increase in journey time.
>
>Journey times are another matter entirely from bus frequency. Even long
>distance service bus routes seem to visit every cow shed along the way.
>One I know takes over four hours to travel between two end points that
>would take me about an hour and a half by car.
Quite. Journey times may or might not be an important factor for me,
<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
>> It is however sadly not true for the vast majority of journies I need
>> to make. I would *much* prefer using public transport if it took me
>> where I needed to go, when I needed to go there without a huge
>> increase in journey time.
>
>Journey times are another matter entirely from bus frequency. Even long
>distance service bus routes seem to visit every cow shed along the way.
>One I know takes over four hours to travel between two end points that
>would take me about an hour and a half by car.
depending on the reason and specifics of the journey. I can get work
done on a train that makes up for the difference in time between the
train and a car to get to a meeting, for example. Or I can read a
book or even watch a DVD on a train to make a 2 hour train journey so
much more relaxing and enjoyable than a 45 minute car journey that it
is worth the delay in getting home.
But in my present position, commuting to work and back on public
transport will require several disrupting changes and some moderately
long walks, so I could not get either of those advantages from the
increase in time.
--
Cynic
JohnR
May 17, 2012, 9:42:46 AM5/17/12
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On 16/05/2012 18:44, Nightjar wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 18:04, Feral Underclass wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 18:04, Feral Underclass wrote:
>> Nightjar<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 16/05/2012 09:52, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 16/05/2012 09:52, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> Just like only corporations who pay their proper UK taxes should be
>>>> allowed to sell here?
>>>
>>> If you have evidence of any that are not paying what the law requires
>>> them to, HMRC would be very pleased to hear from you.
>>>
>>> Colin Bignell
>>
>> You know full well the millionaires in the government set those
>> loopholes up specifically so that they could benefit from them.
>
> Do you mean the tax incentives that are designed to bring international
> companies into Britain, thereby actually resulting in more tax income
> for the country than there would be without those tax incentives?
>
>
That's warped logic, all these tax dodging companies are only here
>>>> Just like only corporations who pay their proper UK taxes should be
>>>> allowed to sell here?
>>>
>>> If you have evidence of any that are not paying what the law requires
>>> them to, HMRC would be very pleased to hear from you.
>>>
>>> Colin Bignell
>>
>> You know full well the millionaires in the government set those
>> loopholes up specifically so that they could benefit from them.
>
> Do you mean the tax incentives that are designed to bring international
> companies into Britain, thereby actually resulting in more tax income
> for the country than there would be without those tax incentives?
>
>
because they've done deals to avoid paying their fair share of tax,
which someone else has to do for them. I'd rather have companies here
who pay their proper share, make the multi national tax dodgers do the
same or go elsewhere.
It's only the multi-nationals that are taking the piss anyway, shut down
their offshore scams and stop them strangling everyone else out of the
market, let's get some home grown business growth on a level playing field.
®i©ardo
May 17, 2012, 10:40:25 AM5/17/12
to
way", which seems to concern you, suggests that anyone who wishes to
travel directly between two points, without stopping on way, should not
be catching that bus. Any bus that does not stop at interim points on
its journey is doomed to failure, particularly when you consider that,
apart from on express services, few people travel the length of an
entire route - but even the express services have to make stops to set
down and pick up passengers in order to be viable.
Nightjar
May 17, 2012, 11:16:25 AM5/17/12
to
On 17/05/2012 14:42, JohnR wrote:
> On 16/05/2012 18:44, Nightjar wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 18:04, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>> Nightjar<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 16/05/2012 09:52, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> Just like only corporations who pay their proper UK taxes should be
>>>>> allowed to sell here?
>>>>
>>>> If you have evidence of any that are not paying what the law requires
>>>> them to, HMRC would be very pleased to hear from you.
>>>>
>>>> Colin Bignell
>>>
>>> You know full well the millionaires in the government set those
>>> loopholes up specifically so that they could benefit from them.
>>
>> Do you mean the tax incentives that are designed to bring international
>> companies into Britain, thereby actually resulting in more tax income
>> for the country than there would be without those tax incentives?
>>
>>
> That's warped logic,
It is a simple piece of economics; to get maximum income you need to
> On 16/05/2012 18:44, Nightjar wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 18:04, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>> Nightjar<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 16/05/2012 09:52, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> Just like only corporations who pay their proper UK taxes should be
>>>>> allowed to sell here?
>>>>
>>>> If you have evidence of any that are not paying what the law requires
>>>> them to, HMRC would be very pleased to hear from you.
>>>>
>>>> Colin Bignell
>>>
>>> You know full well the millionaires in the government set those
>>> loopholes up specifically so that they could benefit from them.
>>
>> Do you mean the tax incentives that are designed to bring international
>> companies into Britain, thereby actually resulting in more tax income
>> for the country than there would be without those tax incentives?
>>
>>
> That's warped logic,
find the balance point between having lots of people each paying you
small amounts of money and having a few each paying you a large amount
of money.
> all these tax dodging companies are only here
> because they've done deals to avoid paying their fair share of tax,
> which someone else has to do for them.
is not only legal, it is also a legal obligation for their directors to
do it. If they were not here, we would not be getting the income we do
from them and that vague 'someone else' would be paying even more, while
there would be more people without jobs and the tax burden to deal with
them would be even higher.
> I'd rather have companies here
> who pay their proper share, make the multi national tax dodgers do the
> same or go elsewhere.
>
> It's only the multi-nationals that are taking the piss anyway, shut down
> their offshore scams and stop them strangling everyone else out of the
> market, let's get some home grown business growth on a level playing field.
to stop even quite small businesses doing exactly the same thing as the
big multi-nationals. I know a couple that have set up offices abroad to
take advantage of the rules and there was a spate a few years ago of
small French businesses, even individual shop owners, registering in
Britain to minimise their costs.
Colin Bignell
JNugent
May 17, 2012, 11:27:40 AM5/17/12
to
Who can afford to waste 2.5 hours x 2 daily?
> Any bus that does not stop at interim points on its journey is
> doomed to failure, particularly when you consider that, apart from on express
> services, few people travel the length of an entire route - but even the
> express services have to make stops to set down and pick up passengers in
> order to be viable.
But also plenty who are not.
JohnR
May 17, 2012, 11:41:15 AM5/17/12
to
On 17/05/2012 16:16, Nightjar wrote:
> On 17/05/2012 14:42, JohnR wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 18:44, Nightjar wrote:
>>> On 16/05/2012 18:04, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>>> Nightjar<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 16/05/2012 09:52, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Just like only corporations who pay their proper UK taxes should be
>>>>>> allowed to sell here?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have evidence of any that are not paying what the law requires
>>>>> them to, HMRC would be very pleased to hear from you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin Bignell
>>>>
>>>> You know full well the millionaires in the government set those
>>>> loopholes up specifically so that they could benefit from them.
>>>
>>> Do you mean the tax incentives that are designed to bring international
>>> companies into Britain, thereby actually resulting in more tax income
>>> for the country than there would be without those tax incentives?
>>>
>>>
>> That's warped logic,
>
> It is a simple piece of economics; to get maximum income you need to
> find the balance point between having lots of people each paying you
> small amounts of money and having a few each paying you a large amount
> of money.
>
simplistic perhaps, where the reality is of a small few paying
> On 17/05/2012 14:42, JohnR wrote:
>> On 16/05/2012 18:44, Nightjar wrote:
>>> On 16/05/2012 18:04, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>>> Nightjar<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 16/05/2012 09:52, Feral Underclass wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Just like only corporations who pay their proper UK taxes should be
>>>>>> allowed to sell here?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have evidence of any that are not paying what the law requires
>>>>> them to, HMRC would be very pleased to hear from you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin Bignell
>>>>
>>>> You know full well the millionaires in the government set those
>>>> loopholes up specifically so that they could benefit from them.
>>>
>>> Do you mean the tax incentives that are designed to bring international
>>> companies into Britain, thereby actually resulting in more tax income
>>> for the country than there would be without those tax incentives?
>>>
>>>
>> That's warped logic,
>
> It is a simple piece of economics; to get maximum income you need to
> find the balance point between having lots of people each paying you
> small amounts of money and having a few each paying you a large amount
> of money.
>
relatively small amounts and strangling everyone else.
Deux
May 18, 2012, 4:47:53 PM5/18/12
to
On Wed, 16 May 2012 07:31:15 +0100, Andy Wainwright wrote:
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
They don't need to make it free. Contrary to popular opinion, bus travel
> So why not make public tranport free and running 24/7. It would
> potentially create a lot of jobs for bus and train crews, and guaranteed
> service meant that you could travel at any time without worrying that
> you won't be able to get home the same day.
is actually cheap, a lot cheaper than car providing you buy one of their
passes. For example Arriva will sell an annual pass for £590 that allows
unlimited travel around the Midlands. That is peanuts compared to how
much it costs to run a car.
But there are other flaws in public transport that put people off using
public transport.
The major problem is whilst the bus operators run a bus pass scheme that
is good value for money the pass is only accepted by that operator. Yet
it's very hard to travel somewhere without needing to catch buses owned
by separate operators. This means the bus pass scheme is pointless for
most people.
Surely the bus operators could work together and come up with one single
scheme that allows people to buy a pass that lets them use any bus
regardless of region or operator?
The next problem is that catching a bus is confusing. There are multiple
buses that could get to your destination and you may need to catch
connecting buses. How are you supposed to juggle all these separate
timetables? The only way to cope with public transport is to figure out
a regular route beforehand and stick to it. If you want to make an
adhoc journey that requires multiple buses, expect to end up sitting
in a bus shelter in the middle of nowhere.
What is needed is some way of making a point to point journey simple. The
website travelinemidlands for travel in the midlands does this well but
of course it only works on a computer and doesn't account for late buses,
etc. What is needed is some smart phone app that will calculate the best
route on the fly and somehow takes into account buses running behind
schedule.
steve robinson
May 19, 2012, 4:35:10 AM5/19/12
to
joe
May 19, 2012, 9:42:23 AM5/19/12
to
Deux wrote:
> What is needed is some way of making a point to point journey simple.
> The website travelinemidlands for travel in the midlands does this
> well but of course it only works on a computer and doesn't account
> for late buses, etc. What is needed is some smart phone app that will
> calculate the best route on the fly and somehow takes into account
> buses running behind schedule.
If only we could afford it. Mind you we did donate a similar system
> What is needed is some way of making a point to point journey simple.
> The website travelinemidlands for travel in the midlands does this
> well but of course it only works on a computer and doesn't account
> for late buses, etc. What is needed is some smart phone app that will
> calculate the best route on the fly and somehow takes into account
> buses running behind schedule.
free of charge to some remote area of India because we have too much
money apparently.
--
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