The Nazis Didn't Gas a Single Jew.
Divided by Diversity ☺☻☺
The Alternative Tour of Auschwitz: An Independent Investigation of the
Holocaust:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8424408632716421689
The average man 'knows' the Holocaust exists because:
1) everybody uses the term;
2) he has seen photos of stacked bodies;
3) he has watched a hundred nazi 'documentaries' on TV;
4) authorities agree that questioning any of this is 'hate.'
In other words, the average man believes in the Holocaust for no
logical reason, but out of simple mammalian conformity.
You will notice that never, ever does debate in the captive media
condescend to deconstruct the Zionist Privilege embodied in and
sanctified by the designer label 'Holocaust.' Worship the Zionists and
submit to their demands - that is the effect the term Holocaust has.
The evidence for the gassing is never discussed. Photos of crematories
and bodies stacked like cord wood are shown. No context or explanation
of the reason for showing them is given. The connection is to be
assumed. But never is any ordinary evidence, let alone proof, of the
gassing allegation advanced. That Jews were gassed is treated as
though it were already proved and therefore unquestionable, save by
the depraved. Thus, the practical job of the media and the well
intentioned everyman is to smear and ostracize anybody who argues
against settled truth. We all know that Jews were gassed, and that
those who say otherwise are deniers driven by hate. But it ain't so
just because "everybody knows" it is.
We are told repeatedly that the 'Holocaust' is both the worst thing
that ever happened and the best documented thing in human history. We
are to take these assertions on authority, since no genuine debate is
allowed.
There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie. You can find
them in jail. Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists. To
discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
media construct. They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger. And there's
nothing you can do to stop us.
Wikking
> Watch the thinking man's holocaust documentary today:
>
> The Alternative Tour of Auschwitz: An Independent Investigation of the
> Holocaust:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8424408632716421689
Actually, the Nazis used euthanasia on their own people, particularly
in the case of the severely mentally disturbed, deformed or
chronically ill in institutions. In all likelihood, many of the deaths
in the camps were a continuation of that policy, while others were
simply executed for "crimes".
Much of the rest of it was probably a repeat of what happened to the
Boer women and children in British Concentration Camps during the 2nd
Boer War. They succumbed to disease and famine caused by the Brits
burning the very farms that the women and children came from which
were then unable to supply food.
Obviously if you have a small population even 100,000 deaths would be
a "holocaust". I note that the Auschwitz site they now say over a
million died from a combination of factors. Far cry from the once
claimed $4 million. But, again, for a small population, a huge dent.
Not dissimilar however to what the Bolsheviks did to the Ukranians.
It's no coincidence that Hitler and Mussolini came to power as the
Bolsheviks were ramping up their genocidal extermination of their
ethnic populations. The non-Communist part of Europe saw themselves as
being threatened and they voted for strongmen who promised to keep
them safe and employed and fight the Bolsheviks.
--
}(:
It is clear that the "Birthers", "Teabaggers", politicians and media
hosts or pundits that purvey messages of resistance, insurrection and
don't want their kids to go to school to hear the words of the POTUS
have become the dupes and stooges of foreign intelligence services
that wish to see the US destabilized by a bunch of fools - they must
be laughing their heads off at these wingnuts who are so ready to be
their pawns...
yitzhak in eretz isreal (sic)
> Obviously if you have a small population even 100,000 deaths would be a
> "holocaust". I note that the Auschwitz site they now say over a million
> died from a combination of factors. Far cry from the once claimed $4
> million. But, again, for a small population, a huge dent.
More dishonest Nazi propaganda. In fact, the figure of '4 million' was
invented by anti-Semites, who then accused the Jews of trying to hush up
the 'real figure'. The only fly in that particular ointment, is that no
reputable historian has ever claimed that there were 4 million killed.
It's a complete fabrication by the neo-Nazi pigshit; a strawman, if you
like, to further the cause of demonisation of the Jews and denial of the
Holocaust.
'Foner's Spotlight article made the following assertions regarding the
number of people killed at the camp:
Like most Americans, since his youth Cole had been instructed in the
"irrefutable fact" that homicidal gassings had taken place at
Auschwitz. The number of those so executed - also declared irrefutable
- was 4.1 million.
Then came the Leuchter Report in 1988. This was followed by a
"re-evaluation" of the total deaths at Auschwitz (down to 1.1 million).
As a budding historian - and a Jew - Cole was intrigued.
Previous to 1992, anyone who publicly doubted the 4.1 million "gassing"
deaths at Auschwitz was labeled an anti-Semite, neo-nazi skinhead (at
the very least). Quietly, because of revisionist findings, the official
figure was lowered to 1.1 million. No mention of that missing 3
million.
Foner's assertions are simply not true; although it is correct to note
that the Polish Communist government did claim that four million people
were exterminated at Auschwitz, historians (Feig, Reitlinger, Hilberg,
et al.) have never supported that figure. Consider the estimates
provided by Buszko at the end of his article on Auschwitz, which
appeared in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust:
Of the 405,000 registered prisoners, 65,000 survived
Of the 16,000 Soviet POW's, 96 survived
Various estimates suggest 1.6 million were murdered
Buszko's article, and the above estimates, appeared in the 1990 edition
of the Encyclopedia, which clearly puts the lie to Foner's comment that
"anyone who publicly doubted the 4.1 million .. " figure "previous to
1992..." was "...labeled an anti-Semite...". Buszko is not only a
Jewish historian, but Polish as well.
Leon Poliakov, the author of the well-documented "Harvest of Hate,"
which was, we note, first published in 1956, provides the following
information, which clearly demonstrates that Foner's contention, cited
above, is an outright lie:
After some thirty months of intense activity, the Auschwitz balance
sheet showed close to two million immediate exterminations (this figure
can never be fixed exactly), (8) to which one must add the deaths of
some 300,000 registered prisoners - Jews for the most part, but not
entirely - for whom the gas chamber was only one of any number of ways
by which they might have perished. (Poliakov, 202)
(8) In his affidavits, Hoess spoke of two and a half million, 'a figure
set officially,' he wrote, under the signature of [Eichmann], in a
report to Himmler. This figure has been accepted by several authors,
and it appears in the verdict at the trial of the major war criminals.
However, there is no reason for accepting without question the
statistics attributed to Eichmann, which may err on either side.
Adding the number of victims to those deported from different countries
gives a lower figure, although we have little data, for example, on the
number of Polish Jews sent to Auschwitz. An approximate figure in the
neighborhood of two million seems closer to the truth." (Ibid.)
Feig also provides evidence of the false nature of Foner's comment when
she notes that:
Höss testified that the Tesch directors could not help but know of the
use for their product because they sold him enough to annihilate two
million people.'
Feig's book was published in 1981
According to Snyder, Adolf Eichmann reported to Himmler, in 1944, that
four million had been killed in the camps, and another million had been
shot or killed by mobile units. (Encyclopedia of the Third Reich. 1989)
Eichmann's report, which referenced all the camps (most of which were
in Nazi-occupied Poland), may have been the source of the Polish
Communist government's figures. (Snyder is a Professor of History at
the City College and the City University of New York.)
During the war crimes trials, Höss was was asked if it was true that he
had no exact numbers because he had been forbidden to compile them, and
he agreed. He also agreed that Adolf Eichmann had told him that that
more than two million people had been exterminated there. (von Lang,
120)
The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschichte, Munich, provided the following
capsulated paragraph about Auschwitz in a March, 1992, letter of
inquiry. (See auschwitz IFZ.report)
The extermination camp in Birkenau, established in the second half of
1941, was joined to the concentration camp Auschwitz, existing since
May 1940. From January 1942 on in five gas chambers and from the end of
June 1943 in four additional large gassing-rooms gassings with Zyklon B
have been undertaken. Up until November 1944 more than one million Jews
and at least 4000 gypsies have been murdered by gas. (IFZ)
While it is admittedly difficult to compile exact figures, since the
Nazis did not maintain registration records for those who were to be
exterminated immediately upon arrival at Auschwitz, it seems accurate
to assert that the number of Jews killed fell somewhere between one and
one-point-six million.
According to figures provided by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum,
the overall number of victims of Auschwitz in the years 1940-1945 is
estimated at between 1,100,000 and 1,500,000 people. The majority of
them, and above all the mass transports of Jews who arrived beginning
in 1942, died in the gas chambers. (Waclaw Dlugoborski and Franciszek
Piper, Eds. Auschwitz 1940-1945. Central Issues in the History of the
Camp. The Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum, 2000, 5 vols., 1799 pp.,
ISBN 83-85047-87-5)
Jews were not the only victims of this Nazi German killing machine -
historians estimate that among the people sent to Auschwitz there were
at least 1,100,000 Jews from all the countries of occupied Europe, over
140,000 Poles (mostly political prisoners), approximately 20,000
Gypsies from several European countries, over 10,000 Soviet prisoners
of war, and over 10,000 prisoners of other nationalities...'
<http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-09.html>
Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
AADP's 'left-wing Israeli intellectual'
'I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix'
(Dan Quayle)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Wikking
> On 2010-01-01, Yet _Another_ Filthy Nazi Shit <Wik.King!@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Obviously if you have a small population even 100,000 deaths would be a
>> "holocaust". I note that the Auschwitz site they now say over a million
>> died from a combination of factors. Far cry from the once claimed $4
>> million. But, again, for a small population, a huge dent.
>
> More dishonest Nazi propaganda. In fact, the figure of '4 million' was
> invented by anti-Semites, who then accused the Jews of trying to hush up
> the 'real figure'. The only fly in that particular ointment, is that no
> reputable historian has ever claimed that there were 4 million killed.
> It's a complete fabrication by the neo-Nazi pigshit; a strawman, if you
> like, to further the cause of demonisation of the Jews and denial of the
> Holocaust.
So 6 million Jewish dead in the Holocaust was a Nazi fabrication?
Lou Ravi
> So 6 million Jewish dead in the Holocaust was a Nazi fabrication?
No, a Jewish one. The Germans, as always, were very thorough. According to a
well researched *Jewish* source (whose link I can no longer find
unfortunately)
about 3 million poeple died in the the concentration camps, whether by
gassing or anything else doesn't matter really, they died. The figures were
broken down by camp and by year. It may well be that in all 6 million Jews
died during WWII (so did an estimated 20 million Russians) but I doubt it
very much indeed and I'm no 'holocaust denier'. Let the Jews show the
detailed figures instead of trotting out '6 million murdered in death camps'
without any serious proof of their statements. Until then it is just 'Shoah
business' and used as an excuse for their theft of Palestine and their
murdering ways since..
William Black
Let the Jews show the
> detailed figures instead of trotting out '6 million murdered in death camps'
> without any serious proof of their statements.
I don't think they do.
They claim about a million killed by the Einsatzgruppen from the records
they themselves kept.
About a million Jews were murdered at Auschwitz II- Birkenau, which was
an extermination facility attached to the main Auschwitz camp.
About a million at the Treblinka extermination facility
About a quarter of a million at the Sobibor extermination facility.
Sobibor was shut down after a revolt by the Jewish workers there.
About three quarters of a million died in forced labour camps.
The other two million are Jews in Western Russia who just weren't there
after the war.
The Ukrainians are believed to have killed about 300,000, the militias
in the Baltic states about the same number, the rest seem to have just
been casually shot for no reason other than being Jewish.
I have no doubt that you will want all their names and addresses before
you'll accept any of this.
--
William Black
"Any number under six"
The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.
Lou Ravi
> Lou Ravi wrote:
> Let the Jews show the
>> detailed figures instead of trotting out '6 million murdered in
>> death camps' without any serious proof of their statements.
>
> I don't think they do.
>
> They claim about a million killed by the Einsatzgruppen from the
> records they themselves kept.
>
> About a million Jews were murdered at Auschwitz II- Birkenau, which
> was an extermination facility attached to the main Auschwitz camp.
>
> About a million at the Treblinka extermination facility
>
> About a quarter of a million at the Sobibor extermination facility.
>
> Sobibor was shut down after a revolt by the Jewish workers there.
>
> About three quarters of a million died in forced labour camps.
>
> The other two million are Jews in Western Russia who just weren't
> there after the war.
>
> The Ukrainians are believed to have killed about 300,000, the
> militias in the Baltic states about the same number, the rest seem
> to have just been casually shot for no reason other than being Jewish.
>
> I have no doubt that you will want all their names and addresses
> before you'll accept any of this.
No I want some details please, not just statements that I've heard over and
over again with out the slightest bit of *proof* to back them up.
I believe the murders in the camps really got under way only from about
1941/2 onwards, increasing for a year or two then gradually decreasing as
the
war advanced (according to the source I mentioned). A million people in,
let's say, three years, means close on 1000 people a day, people that have
to be assembled, gassed, removed from the gas chambers and got rid of.
Sorry, even with German efficiency such a regime is impossible.
Wikking
> Lou Ravi wrote:
> Let the Jews show the
>> detailed figures instead of trotting out '6 million murdered in death
>> camps'
>> without any serious proof of their statements.
>
> I don't think they do.
>
> They claim about a million killed by the Einsatzgruppen from the records
> they themselves kept.
No graves though to support that number, nor lists of names that
archivists can investigate if indeed investigation was allowed.
>
> About a million Jews were murdered at Auschwitz II- Birkenau, which was
> an extermination facility attached to the main Auschwitz camp.
No breakdown of that number either, execution, disease, natural causes
nor the graves or vast amounts of bone fragments to prove it.
>
> About a million at the Treblinka extermination facility
Ditto.
>
> About a quarter of a million at the Sobibor extermination facility.
Ditto.
>
> Sobibor was shut down after a revolt by the Jewish workers there.
>
> About three quarters of a million died in forced labour camps.
Same again.
>
> The other two million are Jews in Western Russia who just weren't there
> after the war.
But somehow managed to procreate and create millions more between 1946
and 1986.
>
> The Ukrainians are believed to have killed about 300,000,
After what the Bolsheviks did to the Ukranians, you can imagine they
were somewhat peeved with Jews.
the militias
> in the Baltic states about the same number, the rest seem to have just
> been casually shot for no reason other than being Jewish.
You have no significant evidence of this.
>
> I have no doubt that you will want all their names and addresses before
> you'll accept any of this.
Nope, just a proper academic investigation.
Wikking
they were gassed and burned...
Robert Peffers
"Divided by Diversity ???" <stj...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:0b9cdc61-e0c1-4834...@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> Watch the thinking man's holocaust documentary today:
plonk.
Robert Peffers
"Wikking" <Wik.King!@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hhlfhq$dgf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Divided by Diversity ??? wrote:
>> Watch the thinking man's holocaust documentary today:
>>
>> The Alternative Tour of Auschwitz: An Independent Investigation of the
>> Holocaust:
plonk
William Black
> William Black wrote:
>> Lou Ravi wrote:
>> Let the Jews show the
>>> detailed figures instead of trotting out '6 million murdered in
>>> death camps' without any serious proof of their statements.
>> I don't think they do.
>>
>> They claim about a million killed by the Einsatzgruppen from the
>> records they themselves kept.
>>
>> About a million Jews were murdered at Auschwitz II- Birkenau, which
>> was an extermination facility attached to the main Auschwitz camp.
>>
>> About a million at the Treblinka extermination facility
>>
>> About a quarter of a million at the Sobibor extermination facility.
>>
>> Sobibor was shut down after a revolt by the Jewish workers there.
>>
>> About three quarters of a million died in forced labour camps.
>>
>> The other two million are Jews in Western Russia who just weren't
>> there after the war.
>>
>> The Ukrainians are believed to have killed about 300,000, the
>> militias in the Baltic states about the same number, the rest seem
>> to have just been casually shot for no reason other than being Jewish.
>>
>> I have no doubt that you will want all their names and addresses
>> before you'll accept any of this.
>
> No I want some details please, not just statements that I've heard over and
> over again with out the slightest bit of *proof* to back them up.
>
on the subject.
People write books on this stuff, not nice sexy coffee table books with
pictures of wall-to-wall corpses but proper academic studies.
Read some.
http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/publications/
William Black
> William Black wrote:
>> Lou Ravi wrote:
>> Let the Jews show the
>>> detailed figures instead of trotting out '6 million murdered in death
>>> camps'
>>> without any serious proof of their statements.
>> I don't think they do.
>>
>> They claim about a million killed by the Einsatzgruppen from the records
>> they themselves kept.
>
> No graves though to support that number, nor lists of names that
> archivists can investigate if indeed investigation was allowed.
I knew someone would turn up asking for a list of names and addresses...
William Black
Extermination camp victims didn't live that long.
Wikking
> Wikking wrote:
>> William Black wrote:
>>> Lou Ravi wrote:
>>> Let the Jews show the
>>>> detailed figures instead of trotting out '6 million murdered in death
>>>> camps'
>>>> without any serious proof of their statements.
>>> I don't think they do.
>>>
>>> They claim about a million killed by the Einsatzgruppen from the records
>>> they themselves kept.
>>
>> No graves though to support that number, nor lists of names that
>> archivists can investigate if indeed investigation was allowed.
>
> I knew someone would turn up asking for a list of names and addresses...
>
>
true. I simply want to have the details that support that number.
Wikking
instance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Birkenau25August1944.jpg
Very odd that the undressing rooms as labeled in the picture do not
connect with the gas chamber, but rather with the crematorium. So,
that would imply that the victims would be immediately in the
situation of being adjacent to the crematorium and would have to walk
some distance naked from the undressing rooms to the gas chamber. This
does not make sense. They would all be running screaming all over the
engine room compound and would need to be rounded up or shot in situ.
Not very efficient.
Look also at the layout. It's all wrong from a logistics point of
view. The layout is arse about face from getting people in, and
gassing them, cremating them and then getting the remains out. Even
today, crematoriums DO NOT reduce bodies to nothing but dust and the
remains of so many people would need to be dealt with. Furthermore
there is the energy bill for disposing of so many remains. Hitler and
Eva Braun's bodies took gallons and gallons of gasoline and even then
did not disappear entirely. The justification for any kind of
significant expenditure on disposal has never been dealt with in any
coherent way. What did the crematoriums use, gas, coal? Significant
effort as well. There is a substantial cost associated with reducing a
single body to ash and in the cash and resource-strapped Third Reich,
it is questionable as to how much they could spend on this and what
they could use that wasn't needed for Albert Speer and the war effort.
How much money did the Nazis spend between 1942-1945 killing Jews?
William Black
> William Black wrote:
>> Wikking wrote:
>>> William Black wrote:
>>>> Lou Ravi wrote:
>>>> Let the Jews show the
>>>>> detailed figures instead of trotting out '6 million murdered in death
>>>>> camps'
>>>>> without any serious proof of their statements.
>>>> I don't think they do.
>>>>
>>>> They claim about a million killed by the Einsatzgruppen from the records
>>>> they themselves kept.
>>> No graves though to support that number, nor lists of names that
>>> archivists can investigate if indeed investigation was allowed.
>> I knew someone would turn up asking for a list of names and addresses...
>>
>>
> It's called the empirical method. You claim a number and that may be
> true. I simply want to have the details that support that number.
>
Your problem is that you insist on a level of evidence beyond that
required by a court of law.
William Black
The extermination programme took place over a number of years and a
number of sites.
That's why it is studied.
William Black
> Wikking wrote:
>> It's called the empirical method. You claim a number and that may be
>> true. I simply want to have the details that support that number.
>
> fogotten, the Zionists who had worked to prolong the First World War, at
> the cost of some 500,000 lives, to improve their chances of getting
> their hands on Palestine)
An interesting idea.
Perhaps you'd like to tell me how they did that.
And no twaddle about the German peace feelers, nobody, including the
German government, was listening to the people asking for that.
yitzhak in eretz isreal (sic)
> Wikking wrote:
>> It's called the empirical method. You claim a number and that may be
>> true. I simply want to have the details that support that number.
>
> fogotten, the Zionists who had worked to prolong the First World War, at
> the cost of some 500,000 lives, to improve their chances of getting
> an interest in portraying the Nazi regime in as bad a light as possible.
> There most certainly was *a* holocaust, but it equally certainly was not
> *the* holocaust.
'the holocaust' != 'The Holocaust'.
HtH, HaND etc.
Wikking
> Wikking wrote:
>> William Black wrote:
>>> Wikking wrote:
>>>> William Black wrote:
>>>>> Lou Ravi wrote:
>>>>> Let the Jews show the
>>>>>> detailed figures instead of trotting out '6 million murdered in death
>>>>>> camps'
>>>>>> without any serious proof of their statements.
>>>>> I don't think they do.
>>>>>
>>>>> They claim about a million killed by the Einsatzgruppen from the
>>>>> records
>>>>> they themselves kept.
>>>> No graves though to support that number, nor lists of names that
>>>> archivists can investigate if indeed investigation was allowed.
>>> I knew someone would turn up asking for a list of names and addresses...
>>>
>>>
>> It's called the empirical method. You claim a number and that may be
>> true. I simply want to have the details that support that number.
>>
>
> Your problem is that you insist on a level of evidence beyond that
> required by a court of law.
I'm not sure what you are referring to here. There was no settled
number that came out of Nuremburg. There was also the fact that the
largest preponderance of deaths occurred in the sector that was
controlled by the Soviets. The Soviets did lie and lie again at
Nuremburg. In fact they blamed the Katyn Forest massacre on the Nazis
when it was they themselves that perpetrated the murder of the Polish
officers corps. Please come back to my later post on the logistics of
Birkenau and the economic cost of extermination and body disposal.
Wikking
You're being very disingenuous now. You simply respond to my post with
a one-liner while snipping all my text below? I thought we were having
a discussion.
William Black
You deny the Einsatzgruppen killed Jews for no good reason?
Please come back to my later post on the logistics of
> Birkenau and the economic cost of extermination and body disposal.
No.
I really can't be bothered with you.
Try reading a book.
William Black
You'll just move the goal posts if I do answer.
Read a book, or better still, write one...
Wikking
I have read accounts of Babi Yar. Something that puzzles me is that
the claim is made that the 33,000 were the biggest single massacre of
Jews during the Holocaust. Surely if more than a million were murdered
at Auschwitz-Birkenau that would qualify as an ongoing-rolling
massacre of fare greater proportions? I mean, there are just
discrepancies. Also, the claim is made that no bodies can be recovered
because the bodies were burned. This is also disingenuous.
Forensically we can certainly disavow that if anyone really wanted to.
We have done so in Bosnia, Cambodia, South America, Africa. Why not there?
>
> Please come back to my later post on the logistics of
>> Birkenau and the economic cost of extermination and body disposal.
>
> No.
>
> I really can't be bothered with you.
What a shame.
>
> Try reading a book.
That's probably my problem, I have read way too many and noted to many
discrepancies for me to take any of this at face value and on trust
any more.
yitzhak in eretz isreal (sic)
> just a proper academic investigation.
Why bother? You don't want 'facts'. Dozens of verifiable sources have
been posted in this thread (and in others), and you've ignored them all,
only to post another variation of the question that was answered.
The remarkable thing with Nazi swine like you, isn't that you hate Jews.
That's your choice, after all, and despite the best efforts of Messrs
Blair, Blunkett and Brown, the UK is still more or less 'a free country'.
What's remarkable about you is that you all go to such pains to rationalise
your hatred, or to whine, 'we're not anti-Semitic .. we're just
anti-Zionist' (not that there's a difference). Unfortunately, Nazis are in
general profoundly stupid tossers (and you don't disappoint in that
respect), so it's generally a post - two at the most - before you're
sussed, and we see through you. Then come the usual 'justifications', like
how we 'killed Christ', or how we 'control the economy', or how we 'kill
"Palestinians" [sic][1] to make matsot', and so on. It's all a waste of
time, really, because you're subhuman shit whose aim of being accepted as
something more than hateful, venomous little cunts, would receive a big
boost if you'd just grow a set of balls, stand up and say, 'OK. We hate
Jews'.
But you never will.
And that's why you're on a hiding to nothing on this (and every other)
newsgroup. That's why it's so easy to humiliate you; embarrass you;
ridicule you.
Don't ever change.
Y.
[1] how can one 'kill' a non-existent people..? Hmm .. fascinating
Lou Ravi
Not good enough? the 'literature' is as unclear, even contradictory. I'm
asking you as an intelligent fellow how you gas and get rid of a thousand
bodies a day?
>
> People write books on this stuff, not nice sexy coffee table books
> with pictures of wall-to-wall corpses but proper academic studies.
>
> Read some.
>
> http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/publications/
No, as Wikking said, you are being disingenuous. The 'literature' is the
same old stories reehashed and has been for several decades now ( shoah
business) ever since the quite fanciful (IMO) figure of 6 million was
invented. As I've stated, I'm not a 'holocaust denier' but I'm afraid I
consider the six million figure to be absolute hogwash and, because I think
it either a lie or an exaggeration, I consider it puts the Jews into a very
bad light. Perhaps 3 million Jews were murdered or died in the camps,
perhaps a million, perhaps a few hundred thousand. That's bad enough, less
for the deaths themselves perhaps, we all die, but for the systematisation
of the thing, the treatment of other human beings as 'untermensch' but the
Jews are doing themselves no favours in keeping up what clearly seems to be
an invention.
As for your link... completely unacceptable as clearly not objective.
William Black
The reality is that all academic research done by legitimate scholars
does indicate that the Nazi regime in Germany between 1932 and 1945
killed several millions of Jews.
Yad Vashem has now got the names of three million Jews recorded as being
killed.
How many dead Jews would you like?
Lou Ravi
Ah, now we're getting somewhere 'several million Jews' between 1932 and 45
( Hitlet came to power in 1933 BTW). So not six million in the death camps
between 1941/2 and 1945 then?
>
> Yad Vashem has now got the names of three million Jews recorded as
> being killed.
Three million is not six million. The Germans noted every single thing down,
the evidence is there, and I'm sure Yad Vashem has looked at it. I'm not
disputing a 'holocaust' I'm disputing the fanciful figure of 6 million.
> How many dead Jews would you like?
0. But I don't like liars.
B J Foster
Only odd if you have preconceived notions of how it worked. What do you
suppose was the function of the undressing rooms? At what point in the
process were the undressing rooms used?
B J Foster
<translation>
15.November.1941
Reichskommissar for Ostland
IIa 4
Secret
To: Reich Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories
RE: Execution of Jews
Will you please inform me whether your inquiry of 31.October should be
interpreted as a directive to liquidate all the Jews in Ostland? Is this
to be done regardless of age, sex, and economic requirements (for
instance, the Wehrmacht's demand for skilled workers in the armament
industry)? Of course the cleansing of Ostland of Jews is a most
important task; its solution, however, must be in accord with the
requirements of war production. . .
Loshe
Reichskommissar for Ostland
</translation>
Wikking
Are you suggesting it was after they had been fully clothed in the
showers?
>
>
>> So,
>> that would imply that the victims would be immediately in the
>> situation of being adjacent to the crematorium and would have to walk
>> some distance naked from the undressing rooms to the gas chamber. This
>> does not make sense. They would all be running screaming all over the
>> engine room compound and would need to be rounded up or shot in situ.
>> Not very efficient.
>>
>> Look also at the layout. It's all wrong from a logistics point of
>> view. The layout is arse about face from getting people in, and
>> gassing them, cremating them and then getting the remains out. Even
>> today, crematoriums DO NOT reduce bodies to nothing but dust and the
>> remains of so many people would need to be dealt with. Furthermore
>> there is the energy bill for disposing of so many remains. Hitler and
>> Eva Braun's bodies took gallons and gallons of gasoline and even then
>> did not disappear entirely. The justification for any kind of
>> significant expenditure on disposal has never been dealt with in any
>> coherent way. What did the crematoriums use, gas, coal? Significant
>> effort as well. There is a substantial cost associated with reducing a
>> single body to ash and in the cash and resource-strapped Third Reich,
>> it is questionable as to how much they could spend on this and what
>> they could use that wasn't needed for Albert Speer and the war effort.
>> How much money did the Nazis spend between 1942-1945 killing Jews?
>
B J Foster
Did you understand the question?
Wikking
What was the answer he received and how did this question relate to
partisan activity as depicted in the recent movie Defiance?
> </translation>
>
>>
>>> Please come back to my later post on the logistics of
>>>> Birkenau and the economic cost of extermination and body disposal.
>>> No.
>>>
>>> I really can't be bothered with you.
>>
>> What a shame.
>>> Try reading a book.
>>
>> That's probably my problem, I have read way too many and noted to many
>> discrepancies for me to take any of this at face value and on trust
>> any more.
>>
>>
B J Foster
That *was* the answer, you moron, to a directive to "liquidate all the
Jews in Ostland"
One can only speculate whether the Reichskommissar had an ounce of
humanity and was delaying the order, or whether he was pragmatically
trying to save the lives of the forced labourers because the idiot
Reichsminister hadn't thought about it.
Nazi morons - morons then and morons now. Some things never change.
Wikking
Clearly you didn't and are now desperately trying the old evade,
deflect and deny approach.
>
>
>>>
>>>> So,
>>>> that would imply that the victims would be immediately in the
>>>> situation of being adjacent to the crematorium and would have to walk
>>>> some distance naked from the undressing rooms to the gas chamber. This
>>>> does not make sense. They would all be running screaming all over the
>>>> engine room compound and would need to be rounded up or shot in situ.
>>>> Not very efficient.
>>>>
>>>> Look also at the layout. It's all wrong from a logistics point of
>>>> view. The layout is arse about face from getting people in, and
>>>> gassing them, cremating them and then getting the remains out. Even
>>>> today, crematoriums DO NOT reduce bodies to nothing but dust and the
>>>> remains of so many people would need to be dealt with. Furthermore
>>>> there is the energy bill for disposing of so many remains. Hitler and
>>>> Eva Braun's bodies took gallons and gallons of gasoline and even then
>>>> did not disappear entirely. The justification for any kind of
>>>> significant expenditure on disposal has never been dealt with in any
>>>> coherent way. What did the crematoriums use, gas, coal? Significant
>>>> effort as well. There is a substantial cost associated with reducing a
>>>> single body to ash and in the cash and resource-strapped Third Reich,
>>>> it is questionable as to how much they could spend on this and what
>>>> they could use that wasn't needed for Albert Speer and the war effort.
>>>> How much money did the Nazis spend between 1942-1945 killing Jews?
>>
>>
Wikking
No, he asks a question. But since you haven't realized the hole you
have just dug for your lying self, let me point it out to you.
In the Nuremburg Transcript, "Loshe" comes up. Here's one of the
related questions for Alfred Rosenberg:
MR. DODD: You heard that terrible story of 21/2 to 3 million murders
which he told from the witness stand, very largely of Jewish people?
So, if that is THE number that was used at Nuremburg and includes
gypsies, homosexuals and others AND is based on Soviet propaganda
estimates, what was the REAL number? Certainly a lot less than "2 1/2"
million. Is that what the Holocaust was, less than 2 million?
>
> One can only speculate whether the Reichskommissar had an ounce of
> humanity and was delaying the order, or whether he was pragmatically
> trying to save the lives of the forced labourers because the idiot
> Reichsminister hadn't thought about it.
>
> Nazi morons - morons then and morons now. Some things never change.
>
>>
>>
>>> </translation>
>>>
>>>>> Please come back to my later post on the logistics of
>>>>>> Birkenau and the economic cost of extermination and body disposal.
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really can't be bothered with you.
>>>> What a shame.
>>>>> Try reading a book.
>>>> That's probably my problem, I have read way too many and noted to many
>>>> discrepancies for me to take any of this at face value and on trust
>>>> any more.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
B J Foster
> B J Foster wrote:
>> Wikking wrote:
>>> B J Foster wrote:
>>>> Wikking wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Birkenau25August1944.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Very odd that the undressing rooms as labeled in the picture do not
>>>>> connect with the gas chamber, but rather with the crematorium.
>>>> Only odd if you have preconceived notions of how it worked. What do you
>>>> suppose was the function of the undressing rooms? At what point in the
>>>> process were the undressing rooms used?
>>> Are you suggesting it was after they had been fully clothed in the
>>> showers?
>> Did you understand the question?
>
> Clearly you didn't and are now desperately trying the old evade,
> deflect and deny approach.
>>
I guess not. You're as thick as the Reichs Minister who ordered the
murder of *all* Jews forgetting that a considerable number were employed
as forced labourers, keeping the Nazi war machine going.
Testimony shows that arrivals at Auschwitz were stripped and showered
and then sent to the barracks. Later, they were split up into different
groups - slaves, hospital patients and to the gas ovens - where they
were stripped again. Thus there is no particular significance in the
location of the undressing rooms.
The Nazis changed their extermination process several times as they
tried to perfect it - and as we know, Nazis are as thick as planks.
From the testimony of Lucy L:
"When we got off the train, and we were taken to, you know marched, to a
place nearby, which was close to where the chimneys, the crematoriums
were. We were asked to strip, that's why it was so ludicrous that we put
on two, three dresses, to have them. We were asked to strip, totally in
the nude, and stand at, and we stood, waited, lined up, many of us, many
of us. ... And so, as I said, when we got there we were asked to strip
and throw everything in one pile. We stood in, naked for hours and
hours, and after that we went through a place which was like a shower,
but it wasn't water it was like a disinfectant. And then we were given
those striped dresses, with no underwear. The shoes you were wearing you
had left. So whatever you wore it better last you for the duration. And
then we went to the barracks in Auschwitz"
From the testimony of Filip M:
"While the corpses burned, the stokers stripped the waiting bodies. At
the most fifty-four bodies could be cremated in one hour. The continuous
overloading and operation of the ovens caused the inner fire bricks to
crumble. The staff built a new modern chimney in the summer of 1942. But
it soon evidenced crumbling; and the extermination process, never very
effective, began to disintegrate. Himmler soon became dissatisfied. The
process moved too slowly; the stench contaminated the surrounding
countryside at night; and the red sky over Auschwitz could be seen for
miles".
B J Foster
WTF are you talking about?
I said *nothing* about *actual* murders.
I posted evidence that the 'Reichskommissar for Ostland' had received
orders to exterminate *all* of the Jews in Ostland - whether or not he
did is another question.
>
> In the Nuremburg Transcript, "Loshe" comes up. Here's one of the
> related questions for Alfred Rosenberg:
So shove your denialist crap where it fits best.
>
> MR. DODD: You heard that terrible story of 21/2 to 3 million murders
> which he told from the witness stand, very largely of Jewish people?
"Every day we saw thousands and thousands of innocent people disappear
up the chimney. With our own eyes, we could truly fathom what it means
to be a human being. There they came, men, women, children, all
innocent. They suddenly vanished, and the world said nothing .."
>
> So, if that is THE number that was used at Nuremburg and includes
> gypsies, homosexuals and others AND is based on Soviet propaganda
> estimates, what was the REAL number? Certainly a lot less than "2 1/2"
> million. Is that what the Holocaust was, less than 2 million?
"Auschwitz became the killing centre where the largest numbers of
European Jews were killed. After an experimental gassing there in
September 1941 of 850 malnourished and ill prisoners, mass murder became
a daily routine. By mid 1942, mass gassing of Jews using Zyklon-B began
at Auschwitz, where extermination was conducted on an industrial scale
with some estimates running as high as three million persons eventually
killed through gassing, starvation, disease, shooting, and burning ...
Near the end of the war, in order to cut expenses and save gas, cost-
accountant considerations led to an order to place living children
directly into the ovens of Auschwitz or throw them into open burning pits".
Robert Peffers
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hhngld$9ma$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
--
Auld Bob
Wikking
Some estimates is not the actual number. The Jews were PART of a
stated number of 2 1/2 to 3 million which included gypsies,
homosexuals, Poles, Russians, Czechs, Hungarians and others. The
Russians were also over-inflating numbers for their own political
purposes to further vilify the Nazis and the West was happy to go
along with it to the extent that they believed the Katyn Forest
atrocity (look up Blokhin and Beria) was committed by the Germans.
>
> Near the end of the war, in order to cut expenses and save gas, cost-
> accountant considerations led to an order to place living children
> directly into the ovens of Auschwitz or throw them into open burning pits".
I don't believe this nonsense. It's not feasible or efficient. Its all
the lampshade skin and human soap nonsense.
>
>
>>> One can only speculate whether the Reichskommissar had an ounce of
>>> humanity and was delaying the order, or whether he was pragmatically
>>> trying to save the lives of the forced labourers because the idiot
>>> Reichsminister hadn't thought about it.
>>>
>>> Nazi morons - morons then and morons now. Some things never change.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> </translation>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please come back to my later post on the logistics of
>>>>>>>> Birkenau and the economic cost of extermination and body disposal.
>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really can't be bothered with you.
>>>>>> What a shame.
>>>>>>> Try reading a book.
>>>>>> That's probably my problem, I have read way too many and noted to
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> discrepancies for me to take any of this at face value and on trust
>>>>>> any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Wikking
Yet oddly, I am the one asking for empirical evidence and raising
interesting questions as to the costs the Nazi ethnic cleansing of the
Jews. Your problem is that you don't want any investigation or
research that is not designed to reach a pre-scripted conclusion.
Fact is, to a small population such as the San or the !Kung, even a
1000 deaths would be a Holocaust. There is no doubt in my mind that
for the European Jews even 250,000 deaths constituted a very real
Holocaust. I am interested in facts though from an historical
perspective, not mythology and propaganda.
B J Foster
> B J Foster wrote:
>> Wikking wrote:
>>> B J Foster wrote:
>>>> Wikking wrote:
...
>
> Some estimates is not the actual number. The Jews were PART of a
> stated number of 2 1/2 to 3 million which included gypsies,
> homosexuals, Poles, Russians, Czechs, Hungarians and others. The
> Russians were also over-inflating numbers for their own political
> purposes to further vilify the Nazis and the West was happy to go
> along with it to the extent that they believed the Katyn Forest
> atrocity (look up Blokhin and Beria) was committed by the Germans.
>
It makes no difference to me. The Nazis should have been exterminated -
pity there are a few hanging around still spitting hate.
>> Near the end of the war, in order to cut expenses and save gas, cost-
>> accountant considerations led to an order to place living children
>> directly into the ovens of Auschwitz or throw them into open burning pits".
>
> I don't believe this nonsense. It's not feasible or efficient. Its all
> the lampshade skin and human soap nonsense.
>
It is perfectly plausible - deranged fuckwits trying to rationalise.
>>
>>>> One can only speculate whether the Reichskommissar had an ounce of
>>>> humanity and was delaying the order, or whether he was pragmatically
>>>> trying to save the lives of the forced labourers because the idiot
>>>> Reichsminister hadn't thought about it.
>>>>
>>>> Nazi morons - morons then and morons now. Some things never change.
>>>>
>>>>>> </translation>
>>>>>>
Classic genocidal behaviour - from Hitler to Pol Pot, it's always the same.
yitzhak in eretz isreal (sic)
From Göbbels' diary..
'March 27, 1942: The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be
described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On
the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be
liquidated whereas only 40 per cent can be used for forced labor..'
'... the Nazis' own estimate of the number of European Jews was eleven
million, and sixty percent of eleven million is 6.6 million. This is
fairly close to the actual figure. (Actually, forty percent was a
serious overestimate of the survival rate of Jews who were captured,
but there were many Jews who escaped)'
> The Germans noted every single thing down,
Yes, they did. And thanks to that..
'The Anglo-American committee who studied the issue estimated the
number of Jewish victims at 5.7 million. This was based on population
statistics. Here is the exact breakdown, country by country:
Germany 195,000
Austria 53,000
Czechoslovakia 255,000
Denmark 1,500
France 140,000
Belgium 57,000
Luxemburg 3,000
Norway 1,000
Holland 120,000
Italy 20,000
Yugoslavia 64,000
Greece 64,000
Bulgaria 5,000
Rumania 530,000
Hungary 200,000
Poland 3,271,000
USSR 1,050,000
Less dispersed refugees (308,000)
Total number of Jews killed 5,721,500'
{ snip remainder of stomach-churning bile }
Hey, Murphy? You _do_ know that Holocaust revisionism is a criminal
offence in France? Didn't you..?
Y.
Wikking
Do cite exactly what the French law says in English please.
Wikking
exactly because you'd be shown to be (as usual) a liar.